Role: Vanilla Townie
Abilities:
Your votes are your weapon, and they are potent. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. You are the key to ensuring the town's safety. Use them well.
Win condition:
You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated.
Role: Mafia Goon
Abilities:
You are like a Vanilla Townie, only Evil. Therefore, during the day, your votes are your weapon, and they are potent.
Factional communication: During the confirmation stage, and at night, you may communicate here: QT Link
Factional kill: Each night phase, you may perform the factional kill.
Win condition:
You win when you control 50% of the town, or nothing can stop that from happening.
Role: Innocent Child
Abilities:
Innocence: You will be mod-confirmed as town in the Day 1 opening post.
Your votes are your weapon, and they are potent. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. You are the key to ensuring the town's safety. Use them well.
Win condition:
You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated.
oh i was auto-inned and the setup is a mystery. i really like you ashersky!and i mean really really like you. awesome squared!
So use to Shanty Town.
Am I right in assuming that since this is Blitz X, Blitz IX will run between now and then?
Ok, I see the issue now, with the announced-well-in-advance start date.Am I right in assuming that since this is Blitz X, Blitz IX will run between now and then?
I believe SFS will be running that, yes.
I'm thinking about it. Too many more blitz games and I'm sure I'll get an ulcer.Shreaye, if you play, I'll play.
I'm thinking about it. Too many more blitz games and I'm sure I'll get an ulcer.
All of those maladies can be ameliorated with the proper bourbon.I'm thinking about it. Too many more blitz games and I'm sure I'll get an ulcer.
Stress doesn't cause peptic ulcers. Heliobacter pylori (a bacteria) does. This guy (http://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/medicine/laureates/2005/press.html) received a noble prize for figuring it out!
Meaning that you can still play stressful old mafia and not worry about ulcers! You might still have to worry about headaches, inability to sleep at night, involuntary twitching, spasms and swearing and cold sweats....
Am I right in assuming that since this is Blitz X, Blitz IX will run between now and then?
I believe SFS will be running that, yes.
What the hell.
/IN
Off to read spoilers.
Now off to the wiki abbreviations page. DONT TELL ME.
Ok, can't find it in the wiki glossary, or in the f.DS FAQ, and <hangs head in shame> I've been told before what it means, and <hangs head even lower in shame> where I could have found it.Now off to the wiki abbreviations page. DONT TELL ME.
Haha! ;D
Ok, can't find it in the wiki glossary, or in the f.DS FAQ, and <hangs head in shame> I've been told before what it means, and <hangs head even lower in shame> where I could have found it.Now off to the wiki abbreviations page. DONT TELL ME.
Haha! ;D
Enlighten me, oh wiser one.
Damn it Jimmmm, I'm a doctor not a linguist.Ok, can't find it in the wiki glossary, or in the f.DS FAQ, and <hangs head in shame> I've been told before what it means, and <hangs head even lower in shame> where I could have found it.Now off to the wiki abbreviations page. DONT TELL ME.
Haha! ;D
Enlighten me, oh wiser one.
Official f.DS Mafia Lingo (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=5315.0[/url)
I am cunning, though. 8) ;)
There is too a spoiler. I confirmed the number of PMs today.Well, kind of not. There were 9 slots for players, from which we can infer that 9 PMs would go out. I guess you confirmed that the number of players would not change, but still.
There is too a spoiler. I confirmed the number of PMs today.Well, kind of not. There were 9 slots for players, from which we can infer that 9 PMs would go out. I guess you confirmed that the number of players would not change, but still.
you seem to have a big enough pool to fill all remaining slots without me. I will certainly /out now so that there will be no need for a 24/48 hr debate. but if someone in the future wants to run a 48 hr semi-blitz game I would be very interested!Yuma, I dont know if it helps, but the opening day of ZM9 will be about 31 hours, with 24-hours days to follow.
Damn it Jimmmm, I'm a doctor not a linguist.Ok, can't find it in the wiki glossary, or in the f.DS FAQ, and <hangs head in shame> I've been told before what it means, and <hangs head even lower in shame> where I could have found it.Now off to the wiki abbreviations page. DONT TELL ME.
Haha! ;D
Enlighten me, oh wiser one.
Official f.DS Mafia Lingo (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=5315.0[/url)
It was a joke, from a dinosaur. The reference is to the original Star Trek, circa 1966, which is, I suspect, before your time. I couldn't resist the spelling of Jim.
It was a joke, from a dinosaur. The reference is to the original Star Trek, circa 1966, which is, I suspect, before your time. I couldn't resist the spelling of Jim.
you seem to have a big enough pool to fill all remaining slots without me. I will certainly /out now so that there will be no need for a 24/48 hr debate. but if someone in the future wants to run a 48 hr semi-blitz game I would be very interested!Yuma, I dont know if it helps, but the opening day of ZM9 will be about 31 hours, with 24-hours days to follow.
6. Mafia wins when they control have the town.
6. Mafia wins when they control have the town.
Yoda grammar?
Question: Is there a potential (or actual) conflict between Item #5 under "Game Mechanics" in the OP, (where it says the town's wincon is to kill all the mafia), and the fact that you have highlighted in red the word "threats" in the last line of the VT's role PM (which to me intimates the possibility of a slightly different wincon for town)?
Well that's interesting, but is it really necessary? Have you seen this problem before?
Can you make my /in tentative? I'm really overworked right now, and am worried about freetime.
I'm going to guess power roles won't have the same type of votes VT's / goons have.
I'm going to guess power roles won't have the same type of votes VT's / goons have.
I continue to wonder why I, a player who is not by any definition or metric good at this game, and not a habitual blitzer, got one of the auto-spots and a personal invitation to play.
I continue to wonder why I, a player who is not by any definition or metric good at this game, and not a habitual blitzer, got one of the auto-spots and a personal invitation to play.
I continue to wonder why I, a player who is not by any definition or metric good at this game, and not a habitual blitzer, got one of the auto-spots and a personal invitation to play.
Is this some sort of blitz bastard mafia?!
Blitz is my favourite format
Blitz is my favourite format
Your mind will be blown with this one. I'm more excited about this game than any other ever.
Blitz is my favourite format
Your mind will be blown with this one. I'm more excited about this game than any other ever.
more spoilers time?
This is the one we're supposed to be drink for, right?
@Ash what happens if 4 people are at l-1 and I hammer all 4 with a "Vote: All"
@Ash what happens if 4 people are at l-1 and I hammer all 4 with a "Vote: All"
I think it's a tie, and they all die. Right? No that can't be. Or else we could just do this, you could kill all non-you people, and you win.
@Ash what happens if 4 people are at l-1 and I hammer all 4 with a "Vote: All"
I think it's a tie, and they all die. Right? No that can't be. Or else we could just do this, you could kill all non-you people, and you win.
Thats why I want to know because if we can do that great. If not I want to know what happens.
@Ash what happens if 4 people are at l-1 and I hammer all 4 with a "Vote: All"
I think it's a tie, and they all die. Right? No that can't be. Or else we could just do this, you could kill all non-you people, and you win.
Thats why I want to know because if we can do that great. If not I want to know what happens.
The mafia would vengekill you, though. So... tie?
@Ash what happens if 4 people are at l-1 and I hammer all 4 with a "Vote: All"
@Ash what happens if 4 people are at l-1 and I hammer all 4 with a "Vote: All"
They would all die. If there were mafia among the 4, you would also die.
Also, I think that breaks the point of the game, so that's lame.
TECHNICALLY No, the town wins when all threats to the town are eliminated which happens before the mafia gets a vengekill.
@Ash what happens if 4 people are at l-1 and I hammer all 4 with a "Vote: All"
They would all die. If there were mafia among the 4, you would also die.
Also, I think that breaks the point of the game, so that's lame.
Am I correct in my understanding that if all non me people were at l-1 and I hammered everyone town wins before I get vengekilled?
@Ash what happens if 4 people are at l-1 and I hammer all 4 with a "Vote: All"
They would all die. If there were mafia among the 4, you would also die.
Also, I think that breaks the point of the game, so that's lame.
Am I correct in my understanding that if all non me people were at l-1 and I hammered everyone town wins before I get vengekilled?
MCMC makes even more sense.
@Ash what happens if 4 people are at l-1 and I hammer all 4 with a "Vote: All"
They would all die. If there were mafia among the 4, you would also die.
Also, I think that breaks the point of the game, so that's lame.
Am I correct in my understanding that if all non me people were at l-1 and I hammered everyone town wins before I get vengekilled?
Insomniac, here's what you need to do. You need to pick someone who you don't think is mafia. That's it: just find one person who isn't mafia. We'll call him Player X. Then, order everyone else to vote everyone EXCEPT you and Player X. Then, Player X hammers everyone except you and himself. The mafia vengekill Player X, you are the only person alive, and town wins. If Player X is town.
@Ash what happens if 4 people are at l-1 and I hammer all 4 with a "Vote: All"
They would all die. If there were mafia among the 4, you would also die.
Also, I think that breaks the point of the game, so that's lame.
Am I correct in my understanding that if all non me people were at l-1 and I hammered everyone town wins before I get vengekilled?
Insomniac, here's what you need to do. You need to pick someone who you don't think is mafia. That's it: just find one person who isn't mafia. We'll call him Player X. Then, order everyone else to vote everyone EXCEPT you and Player X. Then, Player X hammers everyone except you and himself. The mafia vengekill Player X, you are the only person alive, and town wins. If Player X is town.
General theory, yes. BUT, lynch point is only FIVE. So if Insomniac said "I want everybody at L-1 except player X" -that would mean 4 people have done "vote-all, unvote-Insomniac".
At that point if there is even a single scum not voting he can cherry pick who to lynch and win instantly for scum.
So, conflicting. On the other hand I feel like trying to feel it out and being careful with my votes given it's a new setup. On the other hand, no games never get anywhere unless people actually commit to voting for the people they find scummy, so eh. But, the first half of day 1 should run pretty close to how it normally would, except no "lock" situation will ever be reached which never was an issue in blitz in the first place.
So, conflicting. On the other hand I feel like trying to feel it out and being careful with my votes given it's a new setup. On the other hand, no games never get anywhere unless people actually commit to voting for the people they find scummy, so eh. But, the first half of day 1 should run pretty close to how it normally would, except no "lock" situation will ever be reached which never was an issue in blitz in the first place.
I would like EVERYONE to comment on this post and how it reflects on Eevee.
Additionally I would like everyone to weigh in on how Robz/Mcmc/Galz all reacted to the theory that gave town a guaranteed win.
So, conflicting. On the other hand I feel like trying to feel it out and being careful with my votes given it's a new setup. On the other hand, no games never get anywhere unless people actually commit to voting for the people they find scummy, so eh. But, the first half of day 1 should run pretty close to how it normally would, except no "lock" situation will ever be reached which never was an issue in blitz in the first place.
I would like EVERYONE to comment on this post and how it reflects on Eevee.
Vote Count 1.2:
Robz888 (0) -
Eevee (0) -
Galzria (0) -
Insomniac (0) -
jotheonah (0) -
Jimmmmm (0) -
TheMunch (0) -
Cuzz (0) -
mcmcsalot (0) -
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 1 ends on Tuesday, January 15 at 4:30 p.m. forum time.
I admit this is totally superfluous and is really just a tag. ;D
POINT 2:
There are 3 town deaths every day/night cycle no matter what we do so we will never make it to Day 3.
So, conflicting. On the other hand I feel like trying to feel it out and being careful with my votes given it's a new setup. On the other hand, no games never get anywhere unless people actually commit to voting for the people they find scummy, so eh. But, the first half of day 1 should run pretty close to how it normally would, except no "lock" situation will ever be reached which never was an issue in blitz in the first place.
I would like EVERYONE to comment on this post and how it reflects on Eevee.
Additionally I would like everyone to weigh in on how Robz/Mcmc/Galz all reacted to the theory that gave town a guaranteed win.
Well I think this is a blunder of meme-worthy proportions:
Creates a "complex and advanced" game which "offers... the largest strategic space we've ever had for both mafia and town as teams, and as individuals."
Is solved in half an hour.
Well I think this is a blunder of meme-worthy proportions:
Creates a "complex and advanced" game which "offers... the largest strategic space we've ever had for both mafia and town as teams, and as individuals."
Is solved in half an hour.
Where's Voltgloss so he can Dsell you?
I'm just glad it was fixed so quickly.
I don't know what you are looking for here. It's how I feel about this new setup: I'm confused as how to best tackle it. I honestly hoped someone would start posting mad theory and I'd get to think about different strategies through posts of others. I'm bad at figuring stuff out on my own. Or in the words of mom salon:So, conflicting. On the other hand I feel like trying to feel it out and being careful with my votes given it's a new setup. On the other hand, no games never get anywhere unless people actually commit to voting for the people they find scummy, so eh. But, the first half of day 1 should run pretty close to how it normally would, except no "lock" situation will ever be reached which never was an issue in blitz in the first place.
I would like EVERYONE to comment on this post and how it reflects on Eevee.
This seems like innocent eevee trying to figure out the setup, and being posotive about it, I got me some towny feels goin on over here.
Additionally I would like everyone to weigh in on how Robz/Mcmc/Galz all reacted to the theory that gave town a guaranteed win.Meh, I mean I don't think how people react to stuff like that has got anything to do with alignments really. Didn't glean anything from it. Fwiw I would have suggested "lets not do this, at least not before ashersky gets a chance to give us a green light. Seems like a boring way to end a possibly awesome game."
I disagree with Galzria A LOT here. First of all, I did back down some from my stance, I went from "I'm think we should do this!" to "well, all of you can't be scum so it seems I'm wrong. I'm looking forward to the end of the game so I can hear what people really really thought." I was surprised no one was even lying but you all actually thought the idea was THAT bad. I never quite understood why, although I did come around to thinking "meh, it's probably not good either". We are building up a sample size though, at least my idea would have guaranteed town >50% to win. .. not really, we'll never get enough games in to meaningfully analyze the winning probabilities of different factions. But, I digress!
I remember way back in blitz whatever, Eevee wanted to play "Sheep the IC", and even though almost every single person in the game disagreed with him, he absolutely would not back down over why it was a good idea. He was, of course, town.
Town!Eevee comes into new setups looking for the optimal play. If he thinks he's found it, he'll pursue it relentlessly. He has complete conviction in his ideas, regardless of what others think.
Here I get more of a sense that he was testing the waters, trying to see where people stand on how to use their votes. This slightly hedgy "maybe this way... But then maybe this way..." Eevee doesn't read as the same Eevee that takes his convictions and runs with them.
So I get a slight - SLIGHT - scum vibe from it. Because honestly at the end of the day this could just as easily be Town!Eevee just being uncomfortable with a new setup. In the end, it's not worth a vote over, but it does make me more aware of him.
The only thing I gleam from robz an galz post is robz didn't suggest he stay alive, he suggested insom pick the person he trusted most. Seems like a really dumb scum slip but still get slight scum vibes because of that.I think he just didn't think it through. Robz wouldn't be dumb enough to think no one would notice that, so he wouldn't have tried to force a bad plan like that through intentionally I don't think. I think it shows Robz was posting while distracted / not concentrating very hard, but I don't think that's an alignment tell in Robz's case.
I don't understand this post. Joth, can you explain how that was the scummy kind of IIoA?I would like EVERYONE to comment on this post and how it reflects on Eevee.
It gives me a slightly scummy vibe, outside of Eevee's meta. It has the stink of IIoA.
But it could so very easily be town Eevee, I don't place much store.
Well, I was right about no RVS...
The only thing I gleam from robz an galz post is robz didn't suggest he stay alive, he suggested insom pick the person he trusted most. Seems like a really dumb scum slip but still get slight scum vibes because of that.
Unless I'm mistaken, mcmc means you should have proposed Insomniac is the one to stay alive.The only thing I gleam from robz an galz post is robz didn't suggest he stay alive, he suggested insom pick the person he trusted most. Seems like a really dumb scum slip but still get slight scum vibes because of that.
Why would I suggest that Insomniac pick me? Insomniac would never trust that. He has no reason to. If I were scum, that plan would result in a scum win. I'm not scum, but Insomniac doesn't know that. And I don't expect him to have a townread on me after 5 freaking seconds of game play.
What I was suggesting that instead of trying to find 2 scum, Insomniac only needed to find 1 townie. Finding 1 townie is infinitely easier than finding 2 scum. And after he found his townie, he could have had that townie lynch everyone, get vengekilled, and Insomniac and town win.
Of course I would hope to demonstrate to Insomniac that I am town, but it doesn't really matter if he chooses me or one of the other like 5 or so town people. And the important thing is he had no reason to pick me at the time I suggested the plan, so it would have sounded ridiculous for me to propose myself.
I think he just didn't think it through. Robz is not dumb enough to think no one would notice that, so he wouldn't have tried to force a bad plan like that through intentionally I don't think. I think it shows Robz was posting while distracted / not concentrating very hard, but I don't think that's an alignment tell in Robz's case.
But I don't like that answer. I wasn't distracted. I was concentrating. I came up with a plan that is much better than trying to find scum. It just wasn't the optimal plan. In another minute, the optimal plan would have occurred to me. It just hadn't yet.So, had you concentrated a little harder and not been too eager to post, you wouldn't have posted the "mistake". Maybe I'm wording it badly, but I'm trying to argue it's only a tell in showing you were willing to post things you hadn't thought through completely.
When I proposed my plan, i simply hadn't thought of the "Insomniac doesn't do the kill" version.that isn't telling of your alignment at all.
Okay, I honestly don't understand.
Post count and compare that to the wagon on qvist to see if anyone looks really scummy.
So, conflicting. On the other hand I feel like trying to feel it out and being careful with my votes given it's a new setup. On the other hand, no games never get anywhere unless people actually commit to voting for the people they find scummy, so eh. But, the first half of day 1 should run pretty close to how it normally would, except no "lock" situation will ever be reached which never was an issue in blitz in the first place.
I would like EVERYONE to comment on this post and how it reflects on Eevee.
Post count and compare that to the wagon on qvist to see if anyone looks really scummy.
Qvist is in this game?
Maybe we need to go deeper. It's a game full of veterans with short deadlines. Scum are probably not lurking - too risky. So what are they doing?
I think scum will sound rehearsed in this set up. In such a grandiose setup, it seems like it would be tempting to overplan to try to ensure victory.
I also asked how people fel about robz/Galz/mcmc regarding the instant win debacle. Ill add one more question. I have a scum read. Who is it
I also asked how people fel about robz/Galz/mcmc regarding the instant win debacle. Ill add one more question. I have a scum read. Who is it
I'm going to guess either Munch or jo?
Well I'm off to bed. I should be back and available around 3 hours before deadline.
I also asked how people fel about robz/Galz/mcmc regarding the instant win debacle. Ill add one more question. I have a scum read. Who is it
I also asked how people fel about robz/Galz/mcmc regarding the instant win debacle. Ill add one more question. I have a scum read. Who is it
Oh Robz's slip with the what plan to say and his back and forth with Eevee? The back and forth with Eevee was interesting cause it felt like Eevee was trying to make Robz slip up but all of Robz's responses seemed genuine.
Idk I'm trying to to give too much wait to discussion of game breaking scenarios, especially if they have been discussed by the mods now. My biggest concern out of all of that was that while yes town could win given a certain series of votes whatever, it could also give scum a free mislynch. I dont really care too much to talk about the game breaking strategy stuff.
Maybe I'm just vain but I thought my idea was better!! I think we should talk about my idea some more!
I think we might actually learn a lot of we play our cards right. The thing is it sets a tone. It is very dangerous for scum to hammer other scum, so yes we will see them avoid hammering someone then we found both scum, great. BUT what I'm trying to work out is how to handle scum (if we pick them to hammer a town instead) their overeagerness to do so under the guise of "well I was just listening to IC insom" so this is something I want to talk about.
Plan sounds good. I'm fine with doing whatever Ins asks me to do.
As for your reads, ughhh. I just reread the whole game yesterday and got nada. I understand why you could think mcmc is town, but I haven't gotten any scummy vibes from anyone. Galzria is in so so many games these days, him not posting that much isn't that much of a tell anymore. If you have reads though ins, that's excellent. I'm ready to sheep you whatever they are, as long as it doesn't include me self-voting.
Jo we get a flip after the first one so if actually like to get going on that
Plan sounds good. I'm fine with doing whatever Ins asks me to do.
As for your reads, ughhh. I just reread the whole game yesterday and got nada. I understand why you could think mcmc is town, but I haven't gotten any scummy vibes from anyone. Galzria is in so so many games these days, him not posting that much isn't that much of a tell anymore. If you have reads though ins, that's excellent. I'm ready to sheep you whatever they are, as long as it doesn't include me self-voting.
Eevee this worries me, insom has no more knowledge of the game then you do. If you are town why would you want to just sheep everything he says, he's ic this means I will never have a scum read on him, this doesn't mean I can't disagree with his reads. I think a big reason we won ZMIX is because we played robz and insom very well and the town just sheeped the ic's.
So I hope you will not sheep the ic, I hope you vocalize and argue with him, support your own reads, ic means we don't vote for him not he's god.
Infact decent scum read on you because you should've none sheeping the ic is bad to we're scum with me in ZMIX
Plan sounds good. I'm fine with doing whatever Ins asks me to do.
As for your reads, ughhh. I just reread the whole game yesterday and got nada. I understand why you could think mcmc is town, but I haven't gotten any scummy vibes from anyone. Galzria is in so so many games these days, him not posting that much isn't that much of a tell anymore. If you have reads though ins, that's excellent. I'm ready to sheep you whatever they are, as long as it doesn't include me self-voting.
Eevee this worries me, insom has no more knowledge of the game then you do. If you are town why would you want to just sheep everything he says, he's ic this means I will never have a scum read on him, this doesn't mean I can't disagree with his reads. I think a big reason we won ZMIX is because we played robz and insom very well and the town just sheeped the ic's.
So I hope you will not sheep the ic, I hope you vocalize and argue with him, support your own reads, ic means we don't vote for him not he's god.
Infact decent scum read on you because you should've none sheeping the ic is bad to we're scum with me in ZMIX
So, conflicting. On the other hand I feel like trying to feel it out and being careful with my votes given it's a new setup. On the other hand, no games never get anywhere unless people actually commit to voting for the people they find scummy, so eh. But, the first half of day 1 should run pretty close to how it normally would, except no "lock" situation will ever be reached which never was an issue in blitz in the first place.
I would like EVERYONE to comment on this post and how it reflects on Eevee.
This seems like innocent eevee trying to figure out the setup, and being posotive about it, I got me some towny feels goin on over here.
Pretty typical Eevee. I don't get much out of it at all though, really.
I remember way back in blitz whatever, Eevee wanted to play "Sheep the IC", and even though almost every single person in the game disagreed with him, he absolutely would not back down over why it was a good idea. He was, of course, town.
Town!Eevee comes into new setups looking for the optimal play. If he thinks he's found it, he'll pursue it relentlessly. He has complete conviction in his ideas, regardless of what others think.
Here I get more of a sense that he was testing the waters, trying to see where people stand on how to use their votes. This slightly hedgy "maybe this way... But then maybe this way..." Eevee doesn't read as the same Eevee that takes his convictions and runs with them.
So I get a slight - SLIGHT - scum vibe from it. Because honestly at the end of the day this could just as easily be Town!Eevee just being uncomfortable with a new setup. In the end, it's not worth a vote over, but it does make me more aware of him.
So, conflicting. On the other hand I feel like trying to feel it out and being careful with my votes given it's a new setup. On the other hand, no games never get anywhere unless people actually commit to voting for the people they find scummy, so eh. But, the first half of day 1 should run pretty close to how it normally would, except no "lock" situation will ever be reached which never was an issue in blitz in the first place.
I would like EVERYONE to comment on this post and how it reflects on Eevee.
It gives me a slightly scummy vibe, outside of Eevee's meta. It has the stink of IIoA.
But it could so very easily be town Eevee, I don't place much store.
I don't know what you are looking for here. It's how I feel about this new setup: I'm confused as how to best tackle it. I honestly hoped someone would start posting mad theory and I'd get to think about different strategies through posts of others. I'm bad at figuring stuff out on my own.
So this was your question, Insom? I dont actually understand Eevees post. "I feel we should be careful with our vote but also vote cause we cant lynch anyone if we dont vote for anyone" feels like a nothing statement to me. Also I dont know what he means by "lock".
In answer to Insom's question, I got a nullread from Eevee's post. It's either Town wondering about the setup or scum trying to imitate his Town play, and I don't have a particular leaning one way or another.
Additionally I would like everyone to weigh in on how Robz/Mcmc/Galz all reacted to the theory that gave town a guaranteed win.
I think all three of us reacted the only "safe" way to react... exploit the situation for maximum breaking easiness of town victory.
The only thing I gleam from robz an galz post is robz didn't suggest he stay alive, he suggested insom pick the person he trusted most. Seems like a really dumb scum slip but still get slight scum vibes because of that.
Slight town points all around, I guess.
But really, they reacted like Dominion players who just found a game breaking combo. Which is to say, with deviant glee. Damnit, that's a magic card, isn't it?
The only reason I give slight points there is that I imagine a certain sort of scum player might react by freaking out and trying to derail the idea/ keeping quiet for fear of helping town to a cheap win. But I don't really imagine any of the three of them would be that sort of shortsighted player as scum - I think they're all smart enough to go in for the free and easy towncred.
Well, I don't know mcmc as well and he is newer to the game. If anyone would have been spooked by that as town it ought to have been him, so I guess he does actually look pretty good.
I think it got to the point where it was obvious that the game needed a fix, and scum have a little more reason to want it fixed than Town do. So explicitly explaining how the game is broken and how Town can immediately win on day one could come from scum. I mean, you could say that scum would say "Nah that wouldn't work let's not do that", but that wouldn't be very smart. So I'd say it's a pretty null read for all. Except, you know, Insom.
Meh, I mean I don't think how people react to stuff like that has got anything to do with alignments really. Didn't glean anything from it. Fwiw I would have suggested "lets not do this, at least not before ashersky gets a chance to give us a green light. Seems like a boring way to end a possibly awesome game."
Joth why do you no longer find me townie
Scum Reads:
Galzria - Galzria responded to the Eevee question in the way I was looking for, I set that question up to see who reacted by saying he was scummy, because I expected scum to think I thought that post was scummy. Galzria did this. Additionally I did NOT like his first post about the game breaking we were attempting, I thought he was reacting a bit like scum scared to pull the trigger on an auto loss
Strong Town Reads:
Mcmc - I DID like how MCMC responded to the game breaking early, he was completely supportive of it and more so than Galz/Robz contributed to finding it.
Town Read:
Joth - I have a town read on joth just based on meta reasons.
Slight Town Read:
Munch - He seems pretty genuinely helpful this game and has contributed some good ideas to the theory.
Null: Everyone else.
They don't have day chat Galz. And responding by attacking my ability to read people is not a way to win me over.
They don't have day chat Galz. And responding by attacking my ability to read people is not a way to win me over.
Oh. Didn't realize they didn't.
Well whatever. Apparently trying to look for wholes so scum can't laugh their assess off to an easy win is now an OMGSCUUUUM move.
Whatever. Good job Insomniac.
Vote: Galzria
I'll hammer whoever the hell you want, I don't give a damn, but if you're directing I'll give 90% odds they're town
But even ignoring that for a moment Galz. Respond to the rest of my case.
Why do you have 2 posts?
Do you deny scum would try to throw at least a little suspicion on Eevee as it looked like I was suspicious of Eevee?
What the hell Munch we aren't hammering Galz first. We're hammering Cuzz first and Galz is going to do it.
They don't have day chat Galz. And responding by attacking my ability to read people is not a way to win me over.
Oh. Didn't realize they didn't.
Well whatever. Apparently trying to look for wholes so scum can't laugh their assess off to an easy win is now an OMGSCUUUUM move.
Whatever. Good job Insomniac.
Vote: Galzria
I'll hammer whoever the hell you want, I don't give a damn, but if you're directing I'll give 90% odds they're town
Again how about the rest of my case. And seriously attacking my play skill is not gonna win me over here. Nor is a self vote.
UNVOTE: GALZRIA
They don't have day chat Galz. And responding by attacking my ability to read people is not a way to win me over.
Oh. Didn't realize they didn't.
Well whatever. Apparently trying to look for wholes so scum can't laugh their assess off to an easy win is now an OMGSCUUUUM move.
Whatever. Good job Insomniac.
Vote: Galzria
I'll hammer whoever the hell you want, I don't give a damn, but if you're directing I'll give 90% odds they're town
Again how about the rest of my case. And seriously attacking my play skill is not gonna win me over here. Nor is a self vote.
UNVOTE: GALZRIA
I really don't give a damn about winning you over. That's not going to happen anyway. Nope, once Insomniac has decided that's it. At this point I'm more interested in pointing out how terrible your case is. One of these times you'll figure out that the only people you have EVER "tricked" are town.
All I know is my plan involved us working to find a lynch and Insomniac gets to pick who to hammer. I'm not to sheep Insoms who to kill blindly though. I want to talk about galz more first. Insom, why did Galz self vote make you unvote him?
Here's something actually useful though. I won't be a complete Dick to the rest of town:
Joth is my #1 scum read. It was (I think) post #151 that he gave his read on Eevee and parrot'ed me almost word for word.
He then made a future post about how scum would "think" that just reaked of "My buddies are lurking, but no way scum would do that. Let's all think how scum would think here!" - It was absolutely a classic scum redirect post.
Also joth is my number two scum read, galz would you hammer joth and joth would you hammer galz,
Theory: TheMunch voted Galz right away so his vote would already be on him, so he couldn't be asked to hammer.
Also, did everyone see my post just now about how this hammer thing doesn't make that much sense to me?
Wait, I put him at L-1? I thought there was 9 town. Insom voted, Eevee voted, and I voted? Doesn't it take 5 to lynch? Maybe I missed something.
Theory: TheMunch voted Galz right away so his vote would already be on him, so he couldn't be asked to hammer.
I can still be asked to hammer and if I was asked to hammer I would unvote, let someone else vote, and do it. Also I figured out my mistake regarding putting Galz at L-1. I forgot that Galz self vote actually matters....
Well, I was right about no RVS...
Remember, 28 hours total for D1. 8 hours are gone.
Cuzz said in his last post of the day in M-XIX that he might want a break from mafia. He very well may not show up. If he's scum, this is a huge break. But I have to believe he's probably not, if he's putting this little effort into it.
Theory: TheMunch voted Galz right away so his vote would already be on him, so he couldn't be asked to hammer.
I can still be asked to hammer and if I was asked to hammer I would unvote, let someone else vote, and do it. Also I figured out my mistake regarding putting Galz at L-1. I forgot that Galz self vote actually matters....
BUt you put him at L-1. Maybe you were hoping someone else would blunder into the hammer before Insomniac could direct it.
This might be a little too wild conspiracy ish
Let me rephrase my question:
Knowing that scum!Galz will never lynch his scumbuddy and that town!Galz very possibly will vote for scum!Cuzz, what do we as a town gain by asking Galz to hammer Cuzz?
Let me rephrase my question:
Knowing that scum!Galz will never lynch his scumbuddy and that town!Galz very possibly will vote for scum!Cuzz, what do we as a town gain by asking Galz to hammer Cuzz?
failure to lynch is an admission of guilt
I'd actually like to get that Cuzz flip.
I'd actually like to get that Cuzz flip.
Insomniac, I'll vote for Cuzz if and when you tell me to. Still don't think there's any reason to presume he's scum. Although it's possible we have to kill him anyway and hope since he'll never show.
I'd actually like to get that Cuzz flip.
Insomniac, I'll vote for Cuzz if and when you tell me to. Still don't think there's any reason to presume he's scum. Although it's possible we have to kill him anyway and hope since he'll never show.
Catching up now. You think I'd never show if I were scum?
How many more until I can hammer Cuzz? It's the only thing I'm waiting for before checking out of this game.
And hi.
How many more until I can hammer Cuzz? It's the only thing I'm waiting for before checking out of this game.
Like I don't know what's going on man, but you've never been this hostile/mean nor this apathetic towards a game before.
I'd actually like to get that Cuzz flip.
Insomniac, I'll vote for Cuzz if and when you tell me to. Still don't think there's any reason to presume he's scum. Although it's possible we have to kill him anyway and hope since he'll never show.
Catching up now. You think I'd never show if I were scum?
If you read, you'll realize I thought the exact opposite. I said if you were scum you'd almost certainly show up.
How many more until I can hammer Cuzz? It's the only thing I'm waiting for before checking out of this game.
Like I don't know what's going on man, but you've never been this hostile/mean nor this apathetic towards a game before.
How many more until I can hammer Cuzz? It's the only thing I'm waiting for before checking out of this game.
Like I don't know what's going on man, but you've never been this hostile/mean nor this apathetic towards a game before.
XV where he was SK. I'm getting a very similar vibe.
So, conflicting. On the other hand I feel like trying to feel it out and being careful with my votes given it's a new setup. On the other hand, no games never get anywhere unless people actually commit to voting for the people they find scummy, so eh. But, the first half of day 1 should run pretty close to how it normally would, except no "lock" situation will ever be reached which never was an issue in blitz in the first place.
I would like EVERYONE to comment on this post and how it reflects on Eevee.
Additionally I would like everyone to weigh in on how Robz/Mcmc/Galz all reacted to the theory that gave town a guaranteed win.
Dang it! So much talk and theory talk and things. I REALLY wanted to claim "Station aligned" cause "I just saw green so I went oh ok I'm station aligned I didn't think it was called town in this game" but it seems I am too late to troll... :(
On a serious note, I didn't actually think of the game breaking nature that comes with the multiple votes but I have done some thinking of the interesting hammerer gets vengekilled aspect. If I'm not mistaken this means that scum cant hammer scum or they lose. I think this is a tool we can exploit as town, and given that we do have an IC it will make things easier. I was thinking about some kind of game plan:
1) Dude gets to L-1.
2) Someone states intent to hammer
3) IC picks someone from wagon that he finds scummy and forces them to hammer.
Something along those lines. I am up for refining this plan.
POINT 2:
There are 3 town deaths every day/night cycle no matter what we do so we will never make it to Day 3.
I think it got to the point where it was obvious that the game needed a fix, and scum have a little more reason to want it fixed than Town do. So explicitly explaining how the game is broken and how Town can immediately win on day one could come from scum. I mean, you could say that scum would say "Nah that wouldn't work let's not do that", but that wouldn't be very smart. So I'd say it's a pretty null read for all. Except, you know, Insom.
How many more until I can hammer Cuzz? It's the only thing I'm waiting for before checking out of this game.
Like I don't know what's going on man, but you've never been this hostile/mean nor this apathetic towards a game before.
I disagree with Galzria A LOT here. First of all, I did back down some from my stance, I went from "I'm think we should do this!" to "well, all of you can't be scum so it seems I'm wrong. I'm looking forward to the end of the game so I can hear what people really really thought." I was surprised no one was even lying but you all actually thought the idea was THAT bad. I never quite understood why, although I did come around to thinking "meh, it's probably not good either". We are building up a sample size though, at least my idea would have guaranteed town >50% to win. .. not really, we'll never get enough games in to meaningfully analyze the winning probabilities of different factions. But, I digress!
I remember way back in blitz whatever, Eevee wanted to play "Sheep the IC", and even though almost every single person in the game disagreed with him, he absolutely would not back down over why it was a good idea. He was, of course, town.
Town!Eevee comes into new setups looking for the optimal play. If he thinks he's found it, he'll pursue it relentlessly. He has complete conviction in his ideas, regardless of what others think.
Here I get more of a sense that he was testing the waters, trying to see where people stand on how to use their votes. This slightly hedgy "maybe this way... But then maybe this way..." Eevee doesn't read as the same Eevee that takes his convictions and runs with them.
So I get a slight - SLIGHT - scum vibe from it. Because honestly at the end of the day this could just as easily be Town!Eevee just being uncomfortable with a new setup. In the end, it's not worth a vote over, but it does make me more aware of him.
I DO NOT think I'm the kind of guy who has complete conviction in my own ideas. On the contrary, as I explained above, I think I'm for the most part the kind of guy who does his best work through analyzing the work of others. I've pursued some town reads of mine relentlessly, but that's about the extent of relentlessness I've gone to in any of my 15 games, other than the IC thing which I think you mischaracterized. I don't know if you having a different view on my personality than I thought you would is really scummy, but everyone likes talking about themselves so I digress again. I guess it's slightly scummy, but I have the bias of always thinking "makes sense to me = town, doesn't make sense to me = scum" (which usually earns you a free town read), so I don't I'm wary. Seriously, do others think I'm the kind of guy who "takes his convictions and runs with them?" I thought I was always accused of being the exact opposite, too hedgy. And for what it's worth, I don't think being hedgy about "should we vote a lot or not in this new setup" is an alignment tell at all. I just typed out what I was mulling over in my head.
tions.) Side note, announcing your exact schedule like this is funny and weird. Feels like I do this in every Blitz game.
How many more until I can hammer Cuzz? It's the only thing I'm waiting for before checking out of this game.
Like I don't know what's going on man, but you've never been this hostile/mean nor this apathetic towards a game before.
Sure, whatever.
Will you give me those blinders when your done?
You want to know why I only had two damn posts? Because I've seen you pull this shit too many times. When you started you already had a scum read I knew EXACTLY why it was on me. What the hell was I supposed to say? I was condemned for actually answering honestly to the Eevee question, and from trying to make sure you didn't get egg all over your face by getting played by scum in a break-the-game scenario.
Honestly, next time when you ask a question - whatever it is - I'm just going to lie in my answer to you. Because in the backward world you play in that's the townie thing to do.
Yes, I'm pissed that you KEEP making the same damn mistakes. You've NEVER caught scum out this way, and you won't here either.
But what was I supposed to say? "Oh look, Insomniac is going to say I'm scummy because X, Y and Z"? Fuck that. I was backed into a corner the moment I bothered to post anything - and yeah, that's a hell of a disincentive to bother to post anything else. You condemned me for the same reasons you always think you're condemning scum but never actually do.
So yeah. You'll lynch me, or I'll get Vengekilled. I really don't give a damn. Tell me who to hammer and my vote is there, or just lynch me now. At this point it's whatever.
And yes, I have gotten really pissed off once before. It was at Robz in a different Blitz game. I don't remember which one. Ashersky was the IC. Ask Robz and Eevee about it, they'll remember.
Guys, let's please not do this.
Guys, let's please not do this.
Agreed. I thought the game was great until mommy and daddy started fighting :(.
I sorta agree with robz on this, but cuzz isn't helping us any as town, any thoughts of getting cuzz on to hammer galz instead?
Guys, let's please not do this.
Agreed. I thought the game was great until mommy and daddy started fighting :(.
It's because the Blitz games just turn up the pressure to some breaking point, I think. Wish they weren't turning out like this. People need to not take things personally. Though I certainly understand it, I have taken things personally before.
Unvote: All
Vote: Galzria
Request Replacement - I will continue to play until one is found. But it's not fair to the rest of the players that I remain in.
Look, Insomniac, I'm sorry I've been personal with you here. I was already upset from just the TWO questions you asked yesterday because I ALREADY saw this coming. I feel like it's history repeating itself again and again and again and the damn result never changes.
I'm not scum. Not here, not this time.
I understand completely WHY you made the case on me you did, and it's why I only had two posts - because I honestly don't feel like I can refute it. It's wrong. It's well intentioned, and it's meant to catch scum, but it's wrong.
I made two posts this game before today trying to be as honest and open as I could. I tried to find flaws in your plan because I didn't WANT to see you fail. I honestly thought scum could daytalk to coordinate the mass town hammer. But you saw that as scum panicking. Sure, I see where you're coming from. It makes ME mad because I didn't have to post anything at all, but you've been a good friend here and I've been town every time you've been an IC. I didn't honestly didn't want you to fail again.
The second post was your "trap". I HATE town-gambits like that. I was called am idiot way back in M-VI for trying the same sort of thing on Robz (didn't work for me either). They work SO rarely, and you're basically asking for town to give you an honest opinion, but you're not interested in reading the response itself - you've already decided "X response = scum". I'm town. I answered you honestly. I'm sorry you don't believe that but it's true. You'll see that when I flip.
It's not just you with these Gambits though. It's the nature of them in general. They don't work. For me, this has focused in on you BECAUSE I've been town each time you've been an IC. It still doesn't excuse me being mean to you, so I'm sorry.
I don't want you to take a break from these games. I don't want anybody to. I'm INCREDIBLY frustrated over feeling like I never even had a chance to SHOW you that I was town this game - and that frustration began last night. But you still don't deserve to be attacked over it.
You're wrong if you think scum Galz would get THIS frustrated. But I won't convince you of it until I flip. I've probably done myself no favors here anyway. I was just really looking forward to this setup, but felt cornered and unable to participate freely from the moment it began.
I really do think we should all remember the golden rule though and try to get back to having fun. And I really hope my argument above doesn't inspire anyone to try to fake posts like this as a scum tactic in the future, as that's a bad road to go down.
I really do think we should all remember the golden rule though and try to get back to having fun. And I really hope my argument above doesn't inspire anyone to try to fake posts like this as a scum tactic in the future, as that's a bad road to go down.
This is my big issue, if we clear galz using this method its a bit game breaking, I suggest noone, town or scum uses arguments like this to make there alignment clear in the future.
Insist the lynch target self-vote. That way if the lynch is on scum and he thinks you'll have a partner hammer him, he can't self-hammer to remove the Vengekill.
Maybe I have a higher tolerance for indignant rage, but I haven't found M-XIV, M-XV, or M-XIX to be particularly wrathful.
How much time do we have here?Like 6 hours iirc.
Oh also Retract: Replace out
Unvote: All
Mcmc - scum could self hammer before any names came out if he even THOUGHT it was likely Insomniac would name a teammate.
It's unlikely, but there's no reason not to avoid it by forcing a self vote.
Oh, and RL related:
FUCK! I killed the battery to my car, which I was using to charge my phone as I'm not at home or the office. I forgot to turn headlights off.
So is this the part where I fly into a blind irrational rage and then suddenly you all have a magical townread on me? Because that should be fun.
I really do think we should all remember the golden rule though and try to get back to having fun. And I really hope my argument above doesn't inspire anyone to try to fake posts like this as a scum tactic in the future, as that's a bad road to go down.
This is my big issue, if we clear galz using this method its a bit game breaking, I suggest noone, town or scum uses arguments like this to make there alignment clear in the future.
The problem is emotion is real. Anyone who fakes it to the extent Galz and I did well thats not cool. I don't like it to be an emotion game but sometimes it happens, and a side effect is I'm fairly confident that Galz is town.
Pretty sure joth was kidding.So is this the part where I fly into a blind irrational rage and then suddenly you all have a magical townread on me? Because that should be fun.
ugh and this is what I was worried about, this is why I wanted to throw out galz's emotional defense. Other people did not want to do this, which I understand, but there's no point in me pretending I didn't read it if no one else is going to.
In summary all I can say is please don't?
So is this the part where I fly into a blind irrational rage and then suddenly you all have a magical townread on me? Because that should be fun.
ugh and this is what I was worried about, this is why I wanted to throw out galz's emotional defense. Other people did not want to do this, which I understand, but there's no point in me pretending I didn't read it if no one else is going to.
In summary all I can say is please don't?
Because basically what we're doing now is we're rewarding Galz for playing in a really unfun way, and for basically breaking the Golden Rule and that's a terrible precedent.
And if it worked to get the lynch off Galz, despite all the evidence against him, why wouldn't it work to get the lynch off me? So let's all take turns throwing hissy fits until we hit the deadline!
And you don't think maybe Galzria channeled the very real anger of being called out early as scum into anger about being wrongly accused?
So is this the part where I fly into a blind irrational rage and then suddenly you all have a magical townread on me? Because that should be fun.
And you don't think maybe Galzria channeled the very real anger of being called out early as scum into anger about being wrongly accused?
Dude man theorel caught me in the first post of MXII. I wasn't mad.
And you don't think maybe Galzria channeled the very real anger of being called out early as scum into anger about being wrongly accused?
Dude man theorel caught me in the first post of MXII. I wasn't mad.
Well, when I get caught as scum I do tend to get mad. So I guess the relevant question is "does Galz." And the answer is "He did that one time when he was SK."
I'm sorry, why does everyone suddenly think I'm scum?
I'm sorry, why does everyone suddenly think I'm scum?
I find you scummy for your deflection of the post about lurkers and the way you acted when we were all talking about hammer possibilities
Can I go back to rolling VT in these games I hate being IC >:(
Woah Robz, what have I missed! Why is joth certainly town?
12 hours to go. What shall we talk about?
Strong scumread on Insom, clearly
:P
Holy crazy defensive selfvote, Batman! I think we've caught a live one.
It can't be this easy.
So this hammer thing:
Best case scenario - Cuzz-Galz scum team. Galz hammers, we win. So obviously Galz will try to talk his way out of the hammer. Presumably in that case we let someone else hammer and then we lynch Galz.
Galz is scum, Cuzz is town - Galz will happily hammer, and we'll have to lynch Galz (if we still think he's scum)
Galz is town, Cuzz is scum - Galz may or may not agree to hammer. If he does, he'll die (which is bad, although it does save us mislynching him). If he doesn't, he'll look really scummy and we'll lynch him.
Both of them are town - We'll probably still end up lynching Galz next.
So it seems to me like in almost any scenario, we end up having to do a Galz lynch anyway. The only scenario that lets us kill him is one where he's town, and therefore we don't want to. Why is this a good plan?
Cuzz are you scum?
Cuzz are you scum?
Nope.
And I think I want Eevee or Cuzz to hammer. Thoughts?
And I think I want Eevee or Cuzz to hammer. Thoughts?
And I think I want Eevee or Cuzz to hammer. Thoughts?
Uh... Cuzz to hammer, of those two. Although I would nominate my brother too.
Are we almost out of time?
I have a similar feeling to Robz. Jimm has had no effect on this game, its bad in a worse way than Cuzz I feel. Do you need my vote on Jimm?
Unvote
I'm an idiot
I can get behind this lynch. I would hammer if asked. I think Eevee is an excellent choice to hammer also.
I'm at lunch now (jumped the car, yay!). I still think I should hammer anyone we lynch out of fairness, but I'll defer to Ins.
I was going to vote but so did mcmc. DO we waqnt me to put him at L1?
Robz you sound scummier with every post, you just brought up ll of joths posts which are devoid of any information/analysis, his confusion about hammering galz is not analysis as hes wrong, scum galz dies for hammering scum cuzz, scum galz dies when we lynch him second after hammering town cuzz.(note this is just pointing out what would have happened at the time, not that I still want glaz to hammer cuzz) And then you defend him with this is town jo????
Robz you sound scummier with every post, you just brought up ll of joths posts which are devoid of any information/analysis, his confusion about hammering galz is not analysis as hes wrong, scum galz dies for hammering scum cuzz, scum galz dies when we lynch him second after hammering town cuzz.(note this is just pointing out what would have happened at the time, not that I still want glaz to hammer cuzz) And then you defend him with this is town jo????
Did you read my post man? All this hammer talk is stuff and nonsense. Scum WON'T hammer their partner, just won't, no matter what. So if you ask someone to hammer and they do it, the only way they'll die is if they're town.
The only good it does is if someone is asked to hammer and refuses and then the person flips scum it proves they're scum too. But in that particular case, we were going to lynch Galz next likely anyway, so it didn't seem like it was actually any different.
I'm at lunch now (jumped the car, yay!). I still think I should hammer anyone we lynch out of fairness, but I'll defer to Ins.robz
what is your opinion on the jimm lynch. And I want Eevee/Cuzz to hammer as my other scum/null reads.
Except for that one megapost, I've been phone posting this entire game. Very hard to keep up. Also yesterdays efforts were sort of focused on ds9.
joth went ofline...
I can get behind this lynch. I would hammer if asked. I think Eevee is an excellent choice to hammer also.
i may be victim to the eevee is buddying me therefor I feel he is town but i really felt he was town.
so munch put him at l-1 and eevee hammer?
what do you mean "cop" my null reads?
He's offline. (!)
hi. I think Eevee should hammer.
Sorry I did leave for a bit, I have to write stories sometimes or they'd fire me I imagine.
Dangit. Am I next up then? :(
Dangit. Am I next up then? :(
Dangit. Am I next up then? :(
No! can we have cuzz lynch joth now...
Jo is town.
THis is the problem with IC sheeping. We didn't really learn anything from Jimmm's wagon. Insom suggested it and we all went along with it.
I might actually like mcmc a lot too. He is just gooood as scum, certainly crafty enough to post good theory despite being scum.
I don't like the situation I'm in now. I feel I look very scummy to everyone. Don't give any town cred to anyone agreeing to hammer me.
Going along with it doesn't make you get off scot free. I intend to do some wagon analysis and see how it matches up with my reads.
Going along with it doesn't make you get off scot free. I intend to do some wagon analysis and see how it matches up with my reads.
really... why do you think joth is town
Ooooh, okay. I FEEL scummy, for some reason.
I can totally be the hammerer again. Galz is totally off the table and Ins thinking joth is town (Robz agrees) so Munch, cuzz, mcmc or Robz then?
I'd like to see cuzz in a pressure situation because I think I have a good feel of him. This far he is a nullread for me, which means slightly scummy .
The wagon
Robz888, Insomniac, mcmcsalot, TheMunch, Eevee
Cuzz wanted on it. but ended up not needing to be.
Have we ever even seen scumjoth? I don't claim to read him well at all, but to me those posts just looked like classic jo..
Out for a bit, I'll get back asap .
Have we ever even seen scumjoth? I don't claim to read him well at all, but to me those posts just looked like classic jo..
Out for a bit, I'll get back asap .
Yes, MXV and at least one on going game.
Feeling like I haven't been pulling my weight mostly I guess. Not being sharp, being so easy to get onboard with the towny lynch. Sorry jimm, this reminded me of that one blitz game where you fooled me.Ooooh, okay. I FEEL scummy, for some reason.
I can totally be the hammerer again. Galz is totally off the table and Ins thinking joth is town (Robz agrees) so Munch, cuzz, mcmc or Robz then?
I'd like to see cuzz in a pressure situation because I think I have a good feel of him. This far he is a nullread for me, which means slightly scummy .
What reason could that be?
Ooooh, okay. I FEEL scummy, for some reason.
we don't need insom, don't care that hes ic, galz if you suport the joth lynch throw the vote, cuzz and eevee as well. I would like cuzz to hammer but galz could too.
we don't need insom, don't care that hes ic, galz if you suport the joth lynch throw the vote, cuzz and eevee as well. I would like cuzz to hammer but galz could too.
Holy. Vote: mom salon
Wait, don't tell me I've been lynched!
Gals just so that its obvious for everyone me giving you permission to vote mcmc isn't you just sheepin me. You agree with the case and would vote for him if I wasn't an ic?
Gals just so that its obvious for everyone me giving you permission to vote mcmc isn't you just sheepin me. You agree with the case and would vote for him if I wasn't an ic?
Correct. His "The heck with the IC" is crazy. Too crazy? Maybe. But I can't see a town member actually doing it. I COULD see scum doing so off he honestly thought he could get the support.
how does this benefit scum
how does this benefit scum
Just under 3 hours until deadline. Remember, per blitz rules, the one with the most votes still dies.
4. No unique votes will be counted, and no hidden democracy will be implemented in the case of a tie. If there is a tie at the deadline, all players tied will be lynched.
insom I'm sorry I presented a case I still have heard nothing to dissuade the fact that joth is scum. You came out of nowhere with a jimm lynch and he was town, yes I agreed I deeply regret this though it would have happened without me. I don't trust your reads, I think there simply wrong and I think that is a complete possibility.
Ash that has the same problem as vote all did. if everyone except me is tied at deadline and Im not on any of those wagons, town instant wins.
Ash that has the same problem as vote all did. if everyone except me is tied at deadline and Im not on any of those wagons, town instant wins.
Ash that has the same problem as vote all did. if everyone except me is tied at deadline and Im not on any of those wagons, town instant wins.
To be clear: mods took the "vote all" problem into account for day-end tiebreakers after it was caught early in the game. Tie breakers haven't been needed, and we don't expect it this game.
Ash that has the same problem as vote all did. if everyone except me is tied at deadline and Im not on any of those wagons, town instant wins.
To be clear: mods took the "vote all" problem into account for day-end tiebreakers after it was caught early in the game. Tie breakers haven't been needed, and we don't expect it this game.
You might if I get my way.
Galz how do you feel about your access, at deadline?
What do you mean fly it in my face, i dont think robz weak defense of joth is enough to disuade me. And im willing to discuss anything. I was gone for a little bit, my father came to see me at school. As well as I'm going to dinner in 20 min so I would like resolution by then unless we have time after I get back in like 20 min before deadline.
Galz how do you feel about your access, at deadline?
I'm here until deadline.
Galz how do you feel about your access, at deadline?
I'm here until deadline.
How do you feel about being the only person allowed to vote, and voting for everyone?
If scum tries to manipulate the tie breakers, you can unvote: all and we lynch the manipulator.
you can no longer vote all... Galz would lynch the first person he votes for top to bottom or left to right in the post
Galz how do you feel about your access, at deadline?
I'm here until deadline.
How do you feel about being the only person allowed to vote, and voting for everyone?
If scum tries to manipulate the tie breakers, you can unvote: all and we lynch the manipulator.
you can no longer vote all... Galz would lynch the first person he votes for top to bottom or left to right in the post
sorry what time is deadline?
sorry what time is deadline?
4:30 p.m. forum time.
what if we do it with 3 people say Robz/Galz/Jo then the 4 of us can be around to smack any scum trying to manipulate.
One of us could game the who's posting page
what if we do it with 3 people say Robz/Galz/Jo then the 4 of us can be around to smack any scum trying to manipulate.
One of us could game the who's posting page
I mean doesn't Ash have to do something or else this is just broken? If we can walk to deadline tie-killing everyone but Ins.
sorry what time is deadline?
4:30 p.m. forum time.
What? It's 5 minutes before 6:00 PM for me...
this is silly to be discussing, mods would fix it if there was an issue we have limited time, or at least i do, I have made what I feel is a good case on joth, cuzz his origional lurk is stiiiil scummy, Galz have more of a feeling his play was a scum plan, robz for defending joth i feel poorly, even if thats his meta he could fake it, I find him scummy for deflecting the original post I made about lurker cuzz.
Maybe we need to go deeper. It's a game full of veterans with short deadlines. Scum are probably not lurking - too risky. So what are they doing?
I think scum will sound rehearsed in this set up. In such a grandiose setup, it seems like it would be tempting to overplan to try to ensure victory.
Or your defending your lurking scum buddies
Maybe we need to go deeper. It's a game full of veterans with short deadlines. Scum are probably not lurking - too risky. So what are they doing?
I think scum will sound rehearsed in this set up. In such a grandiose setup, it seems like it would be tempting to overplan to try to ensure victory.
Or your defending your lurking scum buddies
I really don't think thats scummy.
this is after i asked for a post count
I really don't think thats scummy.Maybe we need to go deeper. It's a game full of veterans with short deadlines. Scum are probably not lurking - too risky. So what are they doing?
I think scum will sound rehearsed in this set up. In such a grandiose setup, it seems like it would be tempting to overplan to try to ensure victory.
Or your defending your lurking scum buddies
this is after i asked for a post count
You yourself said if we lynched the lowest posters in every blits game town would win. Why does joth disagree that we shouldn't even look at it. I though he was defending cuzz buddie
Insomniac, what if everybody was at L-1? In order for scum to vote for anybody they would would cause an instant hammer - and we would lynch them straight off tomorrow.
How many (if any) mislynches can we afford?
Although I guess that means you need 4 people you can trust since an unvote breaks it. Hmm...
i find it wierd robz can't tell I'm town, this is why I find him scummy now. What have I done that supports scum robz
Insomniac, what if everybody was at L-1? In order for scum to vote for anybody they would would cause an instant hammer - and we would lynch them straight off tomorrow.
How many (if any) mislynches can we afford?
Although I guess that means you need 4 people you can trust since an unvote breaks it. Hmm...
true but you could have a thing where say all 4 people must be online at deadline with their status visible. And if in the last 5 minutes any of them have the status "Posing in ZMX" you know they are scum and you lynch them
i find it wierd robz can't tell I'm town, this is why I find him scummy now. What have I done that supports scum robz
The case you pushed on me that it was a scumtell that I hadn't come up with the best plan. You pushing cases against people I think are certainly town, like Galz and Joth. And finally, you trying to openly scheme instead of convincing the IC you're right.
Insomniac, what if everybody was at L-1? In order for scum to vote for anybody they would would cause an instant hammer - and we would lynch them straight off tomorrow.
How many (if any) mislynches can we afford?
Although I guess that means you need 4 people you can trust since an unvote breaks it. Hmm...
true but you could have a thing where say all 4 people must be online at deadline with their status visible. And if in the last 5 minutes any of them have the status "Posing in ZMX" you know they are scum and you lynch them
i didnt know that you could do this, will this work the only way i see town winning is via loophole
okay, im calm im sad i really need to go eat soon and what is best insom. I think you need me to unvote: all for whatever plan youve got to work
i cannot promis i can be on at deadline, can i be offline and give the same im gone presence. do you need me to vote for everyone but you
oh just sad because I clearly messed up somewhere, I had a whooole lot of town cred and was super excited as I am in fact town I guess being on one mafia game from 730 am till 6 pm wears you out. During this time I supported a mislynch and lost all my town cred
oh just sad because I clearly messed up somewhere, I had a whooole lot of town cred and was super excited as I am in fact town I guess being on one mafia game from 730 am till 6 pm wears you out. During this time I supported a mislynch and lost all my town cred
last shred of hope, robz constantly saying this wont work because he doesn't want it too?
last shred of hope, robz constantly saying this wont work because he doesn't want it too?
Guys, ashersky is clearing not going to let us win by using exploitative technicalities. Nor should he. I don't understand the enthusiasm to try to break the setup anymore. It was fun for awhile but now it's just wasting time.
Guys, ashersky is clearing not going to let us win by using exploitative technicalities. Nor should he. I don't understand the enthusiasm to try to break the setup anymore. It was fun for awhile but now it's just wasting time.
Mods are following closely. Here's the thing, Robz is correct that we won't let the game end by breaking the set-up. We do find it more interesting for everyone to leave the set-up as is, without more modifications. You can force us to do it, though. The "fix" isn't as interesting as just playing the game.
Besides, we're pretty sure you can't pull it off. :)
Guys, ashersky is clearing not going to let us win by using exploitative technicalities. Nor should he. I don't understand the enthusiasm to try to break the setup anymore. It was fun for awhile but now it's just wasting time.
Mods are following closely. Here's the thing, Robz is correct that we won't let the game end by breaking the set-up. We do find it more interesting for everyone to leave the set-up as is, without more modifications. You can force us to do it, though. The "fix" isn't as interesting as just playing the game.
Besides, we're pretty sure you can't pull it off. :)
Guys, ashersky is clearing not going to let us win by using exploitative technicalities. Nor should he. I don't understand the enthusiasm to try to break the setup anymore. It was fun for awhile but now it's just wasting time.
Mods are following closely. Here's the thing, Robz is correct that we won't let the game end by breaking the set-up. We do find it more interesting for everyone to leave the set-up as is, without more modifications. You can force us to do it, though. The "fix" isn't as interesting as just playing the game.
Besides, we're pretty sure you can't pull it off. :)
I sorta agree mafia will take over and we will lose
Guys, ashersky is clearing not going to let us win by using exploitative technicalities. Nor should he. I don't understand the enthusiasm to try to break the setup anymore. It was fun for awhile but now it's just wasting time.
Mods are following closely. Here's the thing, Robz is correct that we won't let the game end by breaking the set-up. We do find it more interesting for everyone to leave the set-up as is, without more modifications. You can force us to do it, though. The "fix" isn't as interesting as just playing the game.
Besides, we're pretty sure you can't pull it off. :)
...That makes me want to do it more.
Guys, ashersky is clearing not going to let us win by using exploitative technicalities. Nor should he. I don't understand the enthusiasm to try to break the setup anymore. It was fun for awhile but now it's just wasting time.
Mods are following closely. Here's the thing, Robz is correct that we won't let the game end by breaking the set-up. We do find it more interesting for everyone to leave the set-up as is, without more modifications. You can force us to do it, though. The "fix" isn't as interesting as just playing the game.
Besides, we're pretty sure you can't pull it off. :)
I sorta agree mafia will take over and we will lose
Right now are probably loving the fact that we are sitting around trying to needle the system instead of scumhunting. We've had 1 mislynch so far, I don't know why we're acting like we need to cheat to win.
2. There is to be NO personal communication outside of the forum postings unless your role PM specifically allows it. Mafia members may communicate at night and during the confirmation stage.
1(XXX)XXX-XXXX heres my phone number, text me when I need to check/vote/do something, Ill have my phone and I will check it at dinner I want to win this for town still.
1(XXX)XXX-XXXX heres my phone number, text me when I need to check/vote/do something, Ill have my phone and I will check it at dinner I want to win this for town still.
Sorry, but this probably breaks the "no contact outside of the game" rule.
Eevee how do you feel about my MCMC case and MCMCs Jo case?Hmm. well. Yeah, mcmc is all over the place, I gueeeess he is scummier. don't like his joth case.
Just go eat bro, it's fine.
Eevee how do you feel about my MCMC case and MCMCs Jo case?Hmm. well. Yeah, mcmc is all over the place, I gueeeess he is scummier. don't like his joth case.
also want to point out cuzz resumed lurking the second we cleared him
I think Robz is scummy for still having mcmc as his top scum read. anyone interested in a Robz lynch?
I think Robz is scummy for still having mcmc as his top scum read. anyone interested in a Robz lynch?
I'm not.
Just go eat bro, it's fine.
Its not fine I had such strong reads, unless eevee/munch is scum i'm pretty sure I founf the scum team suuuuper early and I want to see this through to deadline
Just go eat bro, it's fine.
Its not fine I had such strong reads, unless eevee/munch is scum i'm pretty sure I founf the scum team suuuuper early and I want to see this through to deadline
The scum team is... All 4 of us? Cuzz-Galzria? Me-Robz?
Ridiculous. Galzria was willing to hammer Cuzz, and Robz has defended me WAAAY too obviously.
It seems to me more like you're desperate for any lynch but yours.
I dont want to live in the world where mcmc is scum.
I think scum is among joth/galz/cuzz/(and I really dont want)mcmc
you and cuzz are still the origional scum team I believed, I can see the galz and cuzz scum team making sense. Robz fits nowhere but they way he is playing reads soooo scummy to me, I can't explain but I feel I can read robz well, I would assume robz could read me well, except he didnt in ZMIX, so him finding me scummy makes me find him scummy. I feel he is lying/making his scum read on me up that is what I find scummy in him.
I dont want to live in the world where mcmc is scum.I think scum is among joth/galz/cuzz/(and I really dont want)mcmc
What is this? I don't even
vote: Cuzz
Guys, this pitiful puppying is town mcmc. He's wrong, but I think he's town.
Also he might not be wrong about cuzz.
you and cuzz are still the origional scum team I believed, I can see the galz and cuzz scum team making sense. Robz fits nowhere but they way he is playing reads soooo scummy to me, I can't explain but I feel I can read robz well, I would assume robz could read me well, except he didnt in ZMIX, so him finding me scummy makes me find him scummy. I feel he is lying/making his scum read on me up that is what I find scummy in him.
I think Robz is scum.
Munch's "world where mcmc is town" line is weird.
I think Robz is scum.
Hehe.I think Robz is scum.
You said that, got anything else? Maybe a case? Last time I sheeped you you were scum, and that was after I complimented your reads >:(
Vote: Cuzz
He's been reading the thread here and there since he dissapeared but hasn't posted anything. So I feel pretty good dropping a vote here too.
Hehe.I think Robz is scum.
You said that, got anything else? Maybe a case? Last time I sheeped you you were scum, and that was after I complimented your reads >:(
Well, he seems to be focusing on unimportant details / trying to paint people (namely mcmc) in bad light. I'm stumped other people aren't getting as strong of a town read from mcmc's little outburst as they got from Galzrias.
cant reread to build a case before the deadline, no.
back from dinner insom ask robz to hammer cuzz, see what happens
Hehe.I think Robz is scum.
You said that, got anything else? Maybe a case? Last time I sheeped you you were scum, and that was after I complimented your reads >:(
Well, he seems to be focusing on unimportant details / trying to paint people (namely mcmc) in bad light. I'm stumped other people aren't getting as strong of a town read from mcmc's little outburst as they got from Galzrias.
cant reread to build a case before the deadline, no.
back from dinner insom ask robz to hammer cuzz, see what happens
Happy to if you wants, ins.
Blah. This setup is so weird. With the normal blitz setup I feel like balancing my town reads against my scum reads can solve the setup. Not so here.
We started with... What? 5 VT, 1 IC, 3 S? And now we have 4/1/3?
So it's really 4 town, 3 scum.
Knowing I'm town means 50% of:
Eevee/Robz/Cuzz/Munch/Joth/Mcmc
Are scum. Hummm...
Insomniac, if you had to pick one - just one of the above to be TOWN, who would it be?
My choice would be Robz.
Blah. This setup is so weird. With the normal blitz setup I feel like balancing my town reads against my scum reads can solve the setup. Not so here.
We started with... What? 5 VT, 1 IC, 3 S? And now we have 4/1/3?
So it's really 4 town, 3 scum.
Knowing I'm town means 50% of:
Eevee/Robz/Cuzz/Munch/Joth/Mcmc
Are scum. Hummm...
Insomniac, if you had to pick one - just one of the above to be TOWN, who would it be?
My choice would be Robz.
Should I claim?
Blah. This setup is so weird. With the normal blitz setup I feel like balancing my town reads against my scum reads can solve the setup. Not so here.
We started with... What? 5 VT, 1 IC, 3 S? And now we have 4/1/3?
So it's really 4 town, 3 scum.
Knowing I'm town means 50% of:
Eevee/Robz/Cuzz/Munch/Joth/Mcmc
Are scum. Hummm...
Insomniac, if you had to pick one - just one of the above to be TOWN, who would it be?
My choice would be Robz.
Blah. This setup is so weird. With the normal blitz setup I feel like balancing my town reads against my scum reads can solve the setup. Not so here.
We started with... What? 5 VT, 1 IC, 3 S? And now we have 4/1/3?
So it's really 4 town, 3 scum.
Knowing I'm town means 50% of:
Eevee/Robz/Cuzz/Munch/Joth/Mcmc
Are scum. Hummm...
Insomniac, if you had to pick one - just one of the above to be TOWN, who would it be?
My choice would be Robz.
Sorry, we started 6-1-2, not 5-1-3. So we stand 5-1-2 at the moment and 4 of
Eevee/Robz/Cuzz/Munch/Joth/Mcmc
are town. Huh. Question stands Ins. Which 1 is town?
Should I claim?
Will you self hammer?
god everyone is scummy here!
god everyone is scummy here!
Should I claim?
Will you self hammer?
Why would I want to do that?
Should I claim?
Will you self hammer?
Why would I want to do that?
If your town, you want to because we agreed that sometimes we should force a self hammer to remove the vengekill.
Blah. This setup is so weird. With the normal blitz setup I feel like balancing my town reads against my scum reads can solve the setup. Not so here.
We started with... What? 5 VT, 1 IC, 3 S? And now we have 4/1/3?
So it's really 4 town, 3 scum.
Knowing I'm town means 50% of:
Eevee/Robz/Cuzz/Munch/Joth/Mcmc
Are scum. Hummm...
Insomniac, if you had to pick one - just one of the above to be TOWN, who would it be?
My choice would be Robz.
Sorry, we started 6-1-2, not 5-1-3. So we stand 5-1-2 at the moment and 4 of
Eevee/Robz/Cuzz/Munch/Joth/Mcmc
are town. Huh. Question stands Ins. Which 1 is town?
Its a toss up for me between Robz and Joth. But I'd give it to Robz I suppose.
insom if in that situation, you believe robz is town, I strongly believe eevee and munch are town which I believe you and robz agreed with, doesnt this make cuzz joth the scum team ive been saying for forever
Should I claim?
Will you self hammer?
Why would I want to do that?
If your town, you want to because we agreed that sometimes we should force a self hammer to remove the vengekill.
Insomniac, what do you think of the idea that mcmc and Cuzz are buddies, and mcmc is trying to buy town cred with a correct "read" on his partner? How does his refusal to be the hammer make you feel about that?
Actually, that's a question for everybody.
Munch, if mcmc hammered Cuzz, and Cuzz flipped town, would you hammer mcmc the following "day"?
Eevee, same question.
Munch, if mcmc hammered Cuzz, and Cuzz flipped town, would you hammer mcmc the following "day"?no, I wouldn't want to vote for my 2nd strongest town read.
Eevee, same question.
Munch, if mcmc hammered Cuzz, and Cuzz flipped town, would you hammer mcmc the following "day"?no, I wouldn't want to vote for my 2nd strongest town read.
Eevee, same question.
Ins you suspecting me for that is annoying. why would I say that as scum? whats the benefit? no benefit, I'm just town disappointed in my play that far. Munch is probably scum too lol.
anyone but insom lynching cuzz is better than this, if we tie, you lose one town and one posible scum, if anyone but insom lynches we have the chance to lose two unconfirmed, this is how it is from my perspective.
Munch, if mcmc hammered Cuzz, and Cuzz flipped town, would you hammer mcmc the following "day"?no, I wouldn't want to vote for my 2nd strongest town read.
Eevee, same question.
Ins you suspecting me for that is annoying. why would I say that as scum? whats the benefit? no benefit, I'm just town disappointed in my play that far. Munch is probably scum too lol.
Let them both die!!
anyone but insom lynching cuzz is better than this, if we tie, you lose one town and one posible scum, if anyone but insom lynches we have the chance to lose two unconfirmed, this is how it is from my perspective.
According to you if you lynch Cuzz it will be one scum one town anyway, same as a tie. So why not be willing to cast the hammer?
Insomniac, fair to say anybody unvoting at this point is admitting guilt?
If the flip (s) come up 1 scum 1 town, that leaves 1 scum in Joth/Robz/Eevee/Munch - any last words on them?
Insomniac, fair to say anybody unvoting at this point is admitting guilt?
If the flip (s) come up 1 scum 1 town, that leaves 1 scum in Joth/Robz/Eevee/Munch - any last words on them?
anyone but insom lynching cuzz is better than this, if we tie, you lose one town and one posible scum, if anyone but insom lynches we have the chance to lose two unconfirmed, this is how it is from my perspective.
According to you if you lynch Cuzz it will be one scum one town anyway, same as a tie. So why not be willing to cast the hammer?
because anyone else hammering him makes a possiblity hes scum, and the hammerer is scum. If he is town we lose one town If hes scum we lose one scum and possibly another scum. If I hammer we lose either one town, or one scum one town.
Insomniac, fair to say anybody unvoting at this point is admitting guilt?
If the flip (s) come up 1 scum 1 town, that leaves 1 scum in Joth/Robz/Eevee/Munch - any last words on them?
anyone but insom lynching cuzz is better than this, if we tie, you lose one town and one posible scum, if anyone but insom lynches we have the chance to lose two unconfirmed, this is how it is from my perspective.
According to you if you lynch Cuzz it will be one scum one town anyway, same as a tie. So why not be willing to cast the hammer?
because anyone else hammering him makes a possiblity hes scum, and the hammerer is scum. If he is town we lose one town If hes scum we lose one scum and possibly another scum. If I hammer we lose either one town, or one scum one town.
There is no possibility that he's scum and his "mysterious hemmerer" is also scum.
Insomniac, fair to say anybody unvoting at this point is admitting guilt?
If the flip (s) come up 1 scum 1 town, that leaves 1 scum in Joth/Robz/Eevee/Munch - any last words on them?
I dont know how I feel about you continually ask probing questions to Insomniac leaving yourself off the list. I think it takes the "ofc I'm town" claim to a scummy level, or at least incredibly manipulative.
EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATLY, UNVOTING IS AN ADMISSION OF SCUMMYNESS
BTW Galz if by some freak chance you ARE scum I'm going to be freaking pissed.
EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATLY, UNVOTING IS AN ADMISSION OF SCUMMYNESS
BTW Galz if by some freak chance you ARE scum I'm going to be freaking pissed.
If I were scum I would expect you to be - and more. Like, I don't think I could bring myself to play any more games after this. I honestly couldn't.
But I'm not scum, so no worries.
EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATLY, UNVOTING IS AN ADMISSION OF SCUMMYNESS
BTW Galz if by some freak chance you ARE scum I'm going to be freaking pissed.
If I were scum I would expect you to be - and more. Like, I don't think I could bring myself to play any more games after this. I honestly couldn't.
But I'm not scum, so no worries.
I'm going to laugh when we lose with 2 ic's
Munch, need your answer now:
If one of mcmc is town and the other scum, where do you stand on which is which?
Munch, would you be willing to hammer either Cuzz or mcmc? If so, which? (DO NOT DO SO)
14 minutes.
Robz and Joth, you were not given the clear to lurk until deadline! Thoughts on mcmc/Cuzz? One scum, One town, GO!
Munch, would you be willing to hammer either Cuzz or mcmc? If so, which? (DO NOT DO SO)
I dont like that Cuzz didn't come back after earning some town cred. At least what he said read towny to me. Mcmc is my only real town read. I think my feelings are mirrored by Insoms "galz if your scum I'll be pissed". I dont think I'm needed to hammer either though.
PPE I dont think either being town makes the other town or scum. I dont know if I think Cuzz or Mcmc is more likely to flip scum. Insom is pretty sure one will be scum though.
Munch, would you be willing to hammer either Cuzz or mcmc? If so, which? (DO NOT DO SO)
I dont like that Cuzz didn't come back after earning some town cred. At least what he said read towny to me. Mcmc is my only real town read. I think my feelings are mirrored by Insoms "galz if your scum I'll be pissed". I dont think I'm needed to hammer either though.
PPE I dont think either being town makes the other town or scum. I dont know if I think Cuzz or Mcmc is more likely to flip scum. Insom is pretty sure one will be scum though.
If they're both town we lose right here. Try again please. We must assume one is scum. Which is it?
Munch, would you be willing to hammer either Cuzz or mcmc? If so, which? (DO NOT DO SO)
I dont like that Cuzz didn't come back after earning some town cred. At least what he said read towny to me. Mcmc is my only real town read. I think my feelings are mirrored by Insoms "galz if your scum I'll be pissed". I dont think I'm needed to hammer either though.
PPE I dont think either being town makes the other town or scum. I dont know if I think Cuzz or Mcmc is more likely to flip scum. Insom is pretty sure one will be scum though.
If they're both town we lose right here. Try again please. We must assume one is scum. Which is it?
Munch, would you be willing to hammer either Cuzz or mcmc? If so, which? (DO NOT DO SO)
I dont like that Cuzz didn't come back after earning some town cred. At least what he said read towny to me. Mcmc is my only real town read. I think my feelings are mirrored by Insoms "galz if your scum I'll be pissed". I dont think I'm needed to hammer either though.
PPE I dont think either being town makes the other town or scum. I dont know if I think Cuzz or Mcmc is more likely to flip scum. Insom is pretty sure one will be scum though.
If they're both town we lose right here. Try again please. We must assume one is scum. Which is it?
Eevee:
Town: Mcmc
Scum: Cuzz
Robz:
Town: Cuzz
Scum: Mcmc
Munch:
Town: Cuzz
Scum: Mcmc
Is this accurate? (rushing)
Eevee:
Town: Mcmc
Scum: Cuzz
Robz:
Town: Cuzz
Scum: Mcmc
Munch:
Town: Cuzz
Scum: Mcmc
Is this accurate? (rushing)
Robz and Joth, you were not given the clear to lurk until deadline! Thoughts on mcmc/Cuzz? One scum, One town, GO!
In fact no. I am changing my mind.
Insomniac - assume a 1/1 flip between these two:
Do you think the scum partner, knowing his buddy is about to get lynched, would put his scum read on the town, or on his partner?Eevee:
Town: Mcmc
Scum: Cuzz
Robz:
Town: Cuzz
Scum: Mcmc
Munch:
Town: Cuzz
Scum: Mcmc
Is this accurate? (rushing)
In fact no. I am changing my mind.
Not saying you're scum. Not saying you can't change your mind, but straight up don't like this. Feels like "I don't want to say the wrong thing here".
However, after I bitched at Ins this morning I've no right to make this sort of call. I wasn't setting any kind of "trap", I'm just looking to gather information.
galz if you take your vote off me eevee was the last one to vote for cuzz, he counts as the hammer and this allows eevee could be scum
and cuzz if your town you neeed to self vote before deadline
REMINDER: VOTING OR UNVOTING IS AN ADMISSION OF GUILT
REMINDER: VOTING OR UNVOTING IS AN ADMISSION OF GUILT
Mcmc. No offense but shut up. It's an admission of guilt. The fact that deadline lunches for have a hammer is a huge bonus
Shouldn't the second lynch of the day always be a run-out-the-clock then? Avoid the vengekill even if its scum?
so we're just going to let them both die?
Well, no you're not. What if I'm convinced the scumteam isn't Joth/anybody or Galzria/anybody?
Well, no you're not. What if I'm convinced the scumteam isn't Joth/anybody or Galzria/anybody?
Even if YOU'RE convinced the scum team is Munch/Eevee, that doesn't make you right - and if you're wrong it's game over.
Holy cahones scum/mods/spectators are loving it now if we are both wrong with robz. But we caaant be, I feel exactly like robz claims to be feeling but he just has to be really good at faking it.
me and robz. about each other. if munch and joth are the scum.Holy cahones scum/mods/spectators are loving it now if we are both wrong with robz. But we caaant be, I feel exactly like robz claims to be feeling but he just has to be really good at faking it.
Who are the "we" that you're speaking about? I've given no read on Robz.
To each of you:
Why is Munch-Joth impossible?
To each of you:
Why is Munch-Joth impossible?
Because Jo isn't scum. I have like absolute faith in my read on him here. I think it's just as likely your episode with Ins yesterday was a scum gambit, Galz, than Joth being scum. Granted, I think there's a 99% chance you are town, and that whole thing was real. So too my town read on Joth. There's no way he plays like this as scum.
Robz, why shouldn't I lynch you? I know every person on mcmc was town except for you. Why should I believe that it was an all town wagon?
To each of you:
Why is Munch-Joth impossible?
Because Jo isn't scum. I have like absolute faith in my read on him here. I think it's just as likely your episode with Ins yesterday was a scum gambit, Galz, than Joth being scum. Granted, I think there's a 99% chance you are town, and that whole thing was real. So too my town read on Joth. There's no way he plays like this as scum.
Plays like "this"
Define "This" please. Examples. You want me to see him as town, show me.
I wonder if I just get unlucky in my scum reads that never pan out. It's a pity you didn't play M-XVI, Galz. I'm duplicating my play like crazy here, and Insomniac was my Voltgloss.
I wonder if I just get unlucky in my scum reads that never pan out. It's a pity you didn't play M-XVI, Galz. I'm duplicating my play like crazy here, and Insomniac was my Voltgloss.
I modded it with Yuma.
To each of you:It's not impossible. I'd even say it was probable if there wasn't so much evidence pointing to Robz being scum.
Why is Munch-Joth impossible?
Generics generics generics.
I'm tired of words. Show me. Don't tell me. I invented spinning a story. At the end of the day it's a good read, but I want something more.
You know the last time I made Galzria obv town in my eyes nd eliminated him from consideration? M-II. Never again.
You know the last time I made Galzria obv town in my eyes nd eliminated him from consideration? M-II. Never again.
This is NOTHING like M-II Joth.
Ok. I'm awake. I have a few thoughts:
1) I was right about both mcmc and cuzz being town
2) My failure was to not be confident in those reads
3) The lack of confidence came from the overconfidence of other players that one of cuzz/mcmc had to be scum and the conspiracy theory on mcmc
But more than that, ok we lynched Cuzz for no reason. Mcmc got CRUCIFIED for what? pushing a joth lynch and going against Insomniac? I agreed with him. Now we know that his push on joth was genuine. I for one will refuse to consider Galz as an IC and think you all should as well. He was incredibly manipulative at the end of D1 and should be looked at much closer for this.
Joth-Galz scum team.
You know the last time I made Galzria obv town in my eyes nd eliminated him from consideration? M-II. Never again.
This is NOTHING like M-II Joth.
It could be a lot like it if you and Robz are the scum team. That's my nightmare scenario.
More food for thought:
Alive are Robz/Eevee/Galz/Joth/Munch. 2 of us are scum (In your eyes I will acknowledge that this includes me cause some of us want to try to not be manipulative).
So we're chatting and discussing possible scum pairs. It doesn't bother you all (talking to the townies out there which at this point I believe to be Eevee/Robz, but in case I'm wrong the townies do know who they are and should think about this) how comfortable people are to talk about scum pairs among not-galz and not-robz? Scum just need one more mislynch? Then they control half the town and we lose (whether or not we mislynch first or second). So as long as just one person we are not considering (Galz and Robz) is scum, then it is perfectly fine for them. They win. They can talk about scum pairs including their partner freely and still win. This is incredibly dangerous.
PPE: Town doesn't mean his right, that is correct. But that same logic would also say that Insom giving Galz IC status also doesn't mean he is right. But what I mean to say is not that mcmc is infallible but that we need to look at who was willing to crucify him and push the case that hes going against the IC and pushing a case on the role-not-confirmed joth. The point is we need to realize that we were all wrong to think that mcmc is scum (cause we didn't unvote and just let cuzz die, although insom shouting voting/unvoting is an admission of guilt didn't help, I bet scum was loving that). Some people, namely the 2 scum, were faking being wrong. They knew both cuzz and mcmc were town and were fine letting them both die. Thats what we need to think about when town flips and arguments in favor of that player being scummy very well might be driven by scum.
More food for thought:
Alive are Robz/Eevee/Galz/Joth/Munch. 2 of us are scum (In your eyes I will acknowledge that this includes me cause some of us want to try to not be manipulative).
So we're chatting and discussing possible scum pairs. It doesn't bother you all (talking to the townies out there which at this point I believe to be Eevee/Robz, but in case I'm wrong the townies do know who they are and should think about this) how comfortable people are to talk about scum pairs among not-galz and not-robz? Scum just need one more mislynch? Then they control half the town and we lose (whether or not we mislynch first or second). So as long as just one person we are not considering (Galz and Robz) is scum, then it is perfectly fine for them. They win. They can talk about scum pairs including their partner freely and still win. This is incredibly dangerous.
PPE: Town doesn't mean his right, that is correct. But that same logic would also say that Insom giving Galz IC status also doesn't mean he is right. But what I mean to say is not that mcmc is infallible but that we need to look at who was willing to crucify him and push the case that hes going against the IC and pushing a case on the role-not-confirmed joth. The point is we need to realize that we were all wrong to think that mcmc is scum (cause we didn't unvote and just let cuzz die, although insom shouting voting/unvoting is an admission of guilt didn't help, I bet scum was loving that). Some people, namely the 2 scum, were faking being wrong. They knew both cuzz and mcmc were town and were fine letting them both die. Thats what we need to think about when town flips and arguments in favor of that player being scummy very well might be driven by scum.
Is that theory talk accurate?
There are 2 scum. If we lynch one, and they get a vengeful, the town will be down to 2 town - 1 scum and we'll still get another lynch before night. So scum really can't safely bus - their best shot is to both survive this next lynch, right?
Is that theory talk accurate?
There are 2 scum. If we lynch one, and they get a vengeful, the town will be down to 2 town - 1 scum and we'll still get another lynch before night. So scum really can't safely bus - their best shot is to both survive this next lynch, right?
One of my most favorite scum hunting tools is looking to see who is buddy-buddy, and finding the ONE scum between them. It's been a solid device since as far back as M-II.
Examples:
Galzria-Joth - MII
Robz-Volt - MII
O-Galz - MIV
Theorel-All - MV
Theorel-eHunt - MVI (this is the first instance that I used the tool, to successfully nail Theorel as scum D2 - although he wasn't killed until later)
CF-Theorel - MVIII (CF was tricky, but this was the case I brought against him before the infamous "0% chance of flipping town" slip)
You know the last time I made Galzria obv town in my eyes nd eliminated him from consideration? M-II. Never again.
This is NOTHING like M-II Joth.
It could be a lot like it if you" and Robz are the scum team. That's my nightmare scenario.
So mcmc was voting for Cuzz. He couldn't have hammered....
So mcmc was voting for Cuzz. He couldn't have hammered....
It could've been set up so he could, and the question was put to him hours before the deadline.
Also, I did take a stance yesterday, albeit lacking confidence. My stance was that they were both town and Galzria was forcing me to choose one of them as scum.
So mcmc was voting for Cuzz. He couldn't have hammered....
It could've been set up so he could, and the question was put to him hours before the deadline.
Was it though? Was there ever talk of elaborately allowing mcmc to hammer Cuzz to which mcmc's response was refusal?
mcmc, would you hammer Cuzz?
nope, I think cuzz is scum, I think he will vengekill me and I think thats bad for town.
anyone but insom lynching cuzz is better than this, if we tie, you lose one town and one posible scum, if anyone but insom lynches we have the chance to lose two unconfirmed, this is how it is from my perspective.
According to you if you lynch Cuzz it will be one scum one town anyway, same as a tie. So why not be willing to cast the hammer?
because anyone else hammering him makes a possiblity hes scum, and the hammerer is scum. If he is town we lose one town If hes scum we lose one scum and possibly another scum. If I hammer we lose either one town, or one scum one town.
There is no possibility that he's scum and his "mysterious hemmerer" is also scum.
Oh, I missed that. Yeah that reads really scummy.
Oh, I missed that. Yeah that reads really scummy.
Galz, to answer your question, I tentatively am OK with Robz hammering Munch. But since we really can't afford to be wrong, I think we should take our time. I think I'll have time around lunch to do some re-reading and really try to get to where I feel good about my reads.
I mean, obviously that's game over if Robz is scum and TheMunch is town, which would also be true if you and Robz were the scum team. How do you feel about TheMunch hammering Robz?
Yeah. I was actually making a post when thread locked stating that 2 deaths instead of 1 isn't actually the worst thing to happen because they dont actually both count as mislynches. It still counted as one mislynch and we still get our third mislynch today. Having one more town alive frankly would add a great bit of confusion today. I am much happier to still have one mislynch left and an extra flip.
PPE: Ok, then I disagree with that statement from mcmc. Clearly, it would not have been bad for town if he did that. But theres something that makes me uneasy that you were the one that asked that question and then were the one to make the comment about how weird it was that mcmc wouldn't hammer. Maybe I missed this too, but did you also say this yesterday? That mcmc was weird for not being willing to hammer?
That being said I went and checked your huge post again. I really dont understand the logical step in your case from "mcmc is weird for not wanting to hammer" to "thats why I think the Munch is scum".
Yeah. I was actually making a post when thread locked stating that 2 deaths instead of 1 isn't actually the worst thing to happen because they dont actually both count as mislynches. It still counted as one mislynch and we still get our third mislynch today. Having one more town alive frankly would add a great bit of confusion today. I am much happier to still have one mislynch left and an extra flip.
PPE: Ok, then I disagree with that statement from mcmc. Clearly, it would not have been bad for town if he did that. But theres something that makes me uneasy that you were the one that asked that question and then were the one to make the comment about how weird it was that mcmc wouldn't hammer. Maybe I missed this too, but did you also say this yesterday? That mcmc was weird for not being willing to hammer?
That being said I went and checked your huge post again. I really dont understand the logical step in your case from "mcmc is weird for not wanting to hammer" to "thats why I think the Munch is scum".
But... We aren't limited by mislynches. 2 deaths was twice as bad as one!
If only one died yesterday, then we would have 4 town here and two scum. In normal situations you're right - even parity is bad - but this isn't a normal setup. 1 mislynch wouldn't mean an instant loss since we don't go to night. We would get a flip, and if town, have the arguments and wagons to analyze to decide our second lynch.
We essentially made today a single lynch day instead of a double.
Yeah. I was actually making a post when thread locked stating that 2 deaths instead of 1 isn't actually the worst thing to happen because they dont actually both count as mislynches. It still counted as one mislynch and we still get our third mislynch today. Having one more town alive frankly would add a great bit of confusion today. I am much happier to still have one mislynch left and an extra flip.
PPE: Ok, then I disagree with that statement from mcmc. Clearly, it would not have been bad for town if he did that. But theres something that makes me uneasy that you were the one that asked that question and then were the one to make the comment about how weird it was that mcmc wouldn't hammer. Maybe I missed this too, but did you also say this yesterday? That mcmc was weird for not being willing to hammer?
That being said I went and checked your huge post again. I really dont understand the logical step in your case from "mcmc is weird for not wanting to hammer" to "thats why I think the Munch is scum".
But... We aren't limited by mislynches. 2 deaths was twice as bad as one!
If only one died yesterday, then we would have 4 town here and two scum. In normal situations you're right - even parity is bad - but this isn't a normal setup. 1 mislynch wouldn't mean an instant loss since we don't go to night. We would get a flip, and if town, have the arguments and wagons to analyze to decide our second lynch.
We essentially made today a single lynch day instead of a double.
This is wrong. If it was 4-2, we mislynch first its 3-2, then we lynch scum, its now 2-1 and we lose. No matter what we would only get one mislynch. Whether or not we "get" a second lynch, the game is still over. Just in this case, we start 3-2 and we get the benefit of knowing mcmc is town (as opposed to his allignment being unknown and you couldn't have set up a case on him today instead :))
Yeah. I was actually making a post when thread locked stating that 2 deaths instead of 1 isn't actually the worst thing to happen because they dont actually both count as mislynches. It still counted as one mislynch and we still get our third mislynch today. Having one more town alive frankly would add a great bit of confusion today. I am much happier to still have one mislynch left and an extra flip.
PPE: Ok, then I disagree with that statement from mcmc. Clearly, it would not have been bad for town if he did that. But theres something that makes me uneasy that you were the one that asked that question and then were the one to make the comment about how weird it was that mcmc wouldn't hammer. Maybe I missed this too, but did you also say this yesterday? That mcmc was weird for not being willing to hammer?
That being said I went and checked your huge post again. I really dont understand the logical step in your case from "mcmc is weird for not wanting to hammer" to "thats why I think the Munch is scum".
Yeah. I was actually making a post when thread locked stating that 2 deaths instead of 1 isn't actually the worst thing to happen because they dont actually both count as mislynches. It still counted as one mislynch and we still get our third mislynch today. Having one more town alive frankly would add a great bit of confusion today. I am much happier to still have one mislynch left and an extra flip.
PPE: Ok, then I disagree with that statement from mcmc. Clearly, it would not have been bad for town if he did that. But theres something that makes me uneasy that you were the one that asked that question and then were the one to make the comment about how weird it was that mcmc wouldn't hammer. Maybe I missed this too, but did you also say this yesterday? That mcmc was weird for not being willing to hammer?
That being said I went and checked your huge post again. I really dont understand the logical step in your case from "mcmc is weird for not wanting to hammer" to "thats why I think the Munch is scum".
But... We aren't limited by mislynches. 2 deaths was twice as bad as one!
If only one died yesterday, then we would have 4 town here and two scum. In normal situations you're right - even parity is bad - but this isn't a normal setup. 1 mislynch wouldn't mean an instant loss since we don't go to night. We would get a flip, and if town, have the arguments and wagons to analyze to decide our second lynch.
We essentially made today a single lynch day instead of a double.
This is wrong. If it was 4-2, we mislynch first its 3-2, then we lynch scum, its now 2-1 and we lose. No matter what we would only get one mislynch. Whether or not we "get" a second lynch, the game is still over. Just in this case, we start 3-2 and we get the benefit of knowing mcmc is town (as opposed to his allignment being unknown and you couldn't have set up a case on him today instead :))
Thinking more, its more like we get three lynches today and we've already used one as a mislynch. If we mislynch first in the 4-2 set up, we'd be in the same position we are right now, but with only one lynch to follow it up.
Thinking more through the situation: 4-2 mislynch -> 3-2. So now its 3-2. Wed need to find scum for starters. Then put only 2 votes on him so there isn't a town hammer then let it go to deadline. But there are 2 scum, who could just put their two votes down on someone else. Then the same thing still happens. We wouldn't have gotten through to day 3 after a mislynch if we started 4-2. BUT right now, its 3-2 AND we can still win by lynching scum twice.
PPE: read all my theory stuff, including this one. You can disagree with that if you like, but the 1 or 2 town dead doesn't actually make a whole lot of difference. The 1 town dead vs 2 town dead doesn't actually effect at all the necessity to lynch correctly right now. In this case we have to pick 2 scum out of 5 people instead of 6.
I think the tactic TheMunch is taking to arguing this is scummy. He's not saying "I didn't sit around and force a double lynch," he's owning up to that and trying to convince us that it was a pro-town decision. That just strikes me as more of a scum play than town. Like he sat around all night rehearsing an explanation for scummy behavior he knew he'd be called out on.
I'm warming to a Munch lynch. And if Eevee is his partner, that explains why he's waiting for Eevee to weigh in here.
I think the tactic TheMunch is taking to arguing this is scummy. He's not saying "I didn't sit around and force a double lynch," he's owning up to that and trying to convince us that it was a pro-town decision. That just strikes me as more of a scum play than town. Like he sat around all night rehearsing an explanation for scummy behavior he knew he'd be called out on.
I'm warming to a Munch lynch. And if Eevee is his partner, that explains why he's waiting for Eevee to weigh in here.
I think Robz not even considering the possibility of me being town cements him as obvscum again. Galzria, he has played with me as much as you have, even more. Do you think him being that damn certain I'm scum is reasonable at all? He hasn't even commented on my case AT ALL. I'd really prefer to go robz with munch being the hammer.
Robz:
I retract my earlier certainty of Robz being scum. He could be town, but that would require him very unfortunately been wrong about THREE major reads.
-His dead-certainty on me being scum. I don't feel I can adequately analyze whether that would be a reasonable stance for town Robz or not. It's the least damning of these to me either way.
-His certainty on joth being town is mind-boggling to me. He says Joth screams of townjoth and couldn't possibly be able to play like this as scum. I disagree SO SO much. Joth is VERY hard to meta-read for me. Robz might be better than I am at reading Joth, sure. But all the posts he pulled up saying "this is town joth, guys", they were just STANDARD joth to me. I had NO clue he was scum in pokemafia, I had to check my vision when I saw his flip because at the time I didn't know there were two scum teams. NOTHING Joth has done warrants a read that strong. He has been his jokey self, but why the hell would he not be if he was scum!? Joth is NOT stupid! He couldn't make the same jokes as scum JUST as easily. None of his positions are particularly towny. Robz's reads is 100% based on him doing stuff he could do as scum JUST as well, Robz is just arguing he is SURE Joth wouldn't be able to. I say that statement is simply untrue.
-Robz not realizing mcmc was town. Like, this was when I first thought "wow, no way Robz is not scum". I encourage you to read back to the "posting my phone number to the forums so some random creeps from finland and canada can text me to come help town if need be" - incident. No-one.does.that.as.scum, no way. No way, never. Well, now that I type this out I guess Insomniac didn't realize he had to be town either, which is aggravating. But I trust Robz should have realized his own brother was being sincere there.
So, conclusion, for Robz to be town he has to have made three TERRIBLE reads. Possible, sure. Unlikely, I think so. These were his 3 biggest reads, for him to be town he would have had to be 100% wrong on each and every one of them.
Galzria pointed out mcmc's whole wagon was town, other than Robz. This is sickening to me because seriously how did you not see it!?!, but okay. That lynch COULD have been 100% town driven... but again, it's pretty unlikely. These are stacking up.
I think Robz not even considering the possibility of me being town cements him as obvscum again. Galzria, he has played with me as much as you have, even more. Do you think him being that damn certain I'm scum is reasonable at all? He hasn't even commented on my case AT ALL. I'd really prefer to go robz with munch being the hammer.
Oh, one other point I've been wanting to post and now that pokemafia is over, I finally can. Lurking Robz is scum Robz. He has no shame in that regard. Here, he hasn't been straight up lurky, but not super active either. I think I have more posts than he does despite playing the entire game from my phone and town Robz usually leads these post counts. I would also argue his non-low post count is mitigated by the fact all his reads have been wrong (if he is town, he IS wrong about joth and me on top of being wrong about mcmc).
Post count
I hope this helps, sorry it includes the beginning stuff.
Robzz - 66
eevee - 41
galzia - 35
joth - 51
the munch - 33
cuzz - 21
mcmcsalot - 102
Good answer, I absolutely still think you are scum but in that case your unreasonably strong town read on joth IS real and you indeed think this.I think Robz not even considering the possibility of me being town cements him as obvscum again. Galzria, he has played with me as much as you have, even more. Do you think him being that damn certain I'm scum is reasonable at all? He hasn't even commented on my case AT ALL. I'd really prefer to go robz with munch being the hammer.
Eevee, you're not as scummy as Munch, but it's POE for me. I know Galzria and Joth to be town, what else can I do?
Lurky!Robz is scum!Robz, as you said. So I am now obvtown in your eyes, yes?Lol that's false logic mate.
Lurky!Robz is scum!Robz, as you said. So I am now obvtown in your eyes, yes?Lol that's false logic mate.
I said Robz absolutely has no shame about lurking as scum and likes saying "scum Robz wouldn't want all this negative attention I must be town". That doesn't mean all scumrobzes lurk, not at all. Youve proven you have several scum styles up your sleeve. You were JUST scum with me and Insomniac on pokemafia where you lurked like crazy, hardly surprising you decided you couldnt pull it off now. Fwiw, I think your participation level here is pretty much a nulltell.
About mcmc, maybe I'm naive, maybe I read genuine emotion well. To me it was absolutely obvious his eagerness to help town was genuine. I think my strong town reads have a pretty good track record of actually flipping town, so I feel quite good about that read still.
Okay, fine. I do not see it and frankly now fear a Galzria-Robz scum team as well (heh, not really), but I go to trust you. Then it doesn't matter which way we go, robz-munch IS the scum team. I'd start with robz, but if you insist on munch, it doesn't matter as long as I'm right about you and you are right about joth.
You guys put the votes on someone, I'll hammer.
Oh, one other point I've been wanting to post and now that pokemafia is over, I finally can. Lurking Robz is scum Robz. He has no shame in that regard. Here, he hasn't been straight up lurky, but not super active either. I think I have more posts than he does despite playing the entire game from my phone and town Robz usually leads these post counts.
I will literally hammer anyone you guys tell me to. I know your wrong about me, but then that leaves the 4 of you to choose from. I hope you pick correctly from the remaining 4 players. I really think my flip will be beneficial to town so at this point I WANT to get venge killed.
PPE: I'll talk if you want to talk, but I felt like I had the right on the Galz argument and that got me no where. I think if I actually talk it will just be confirmation bias to most of you. What needs to happen is I need to flip. I can flip by getting venge killed. I want that to happen.
Munch not making any arguments but just repeating "fine I'll hammer" over and over again seems like an admission of guimt though.
@galz
Yes, that's just my perspective but it tremendously helps if I can take joth from the table, now I "know" the scum team in that if you are that sure about joth, I don't have to worry about taking reads or making a decision anymore.
Wait, everyone thinks I'm scum... that doesn't strike any of you as strange?
Eevee, would you be the hammer on Robz or Munch if I wanted to lynch either one of those two?Reluctantly, yeah. I'd rather have it be Robz in that case, the ultimate reason I'm "sure" about Munch is that you are sure about joth.
I feel like just throwing your names all in random.org and having it decide. 50% we lynch right! Then I can pair that name up manually with most likely partner!
.....
I feel like just throwing your names all in random.org and having it decide. 50% we lynch right! Then I can pair that name up manually with most likely partner!
.....
This is terrible.
UPDATED POST COUNT, does not include pre-gameOh, that's surprising! Yes, I was definitely wrong there. Absolutely.
Robz888: 106
Eevee: 63
Galzria: 88
Joth: 59
Munch: 64
The thing is Eevee, it's not just that you phrased it badly what my post count means, you were actually factually wrong about my post count. You said that you thought you were posting more than me. As you can see, that is very untrue. But now that you've brought it to our attention, you are underposting in this game, compared to usual.
Yes, I thought so. Didn't expect to convince you. Let's hurry this up so I can yell at... I'm actually not even sure, because I understand why you think it's me. I guess so I can yell at myself.If you are town, which I doubt, you WERE completely wrong in your three major reads. Now, that happens, sur. But yelling to anyone but yourself after that would be unfair I think. :)
Munch, if you're scum with Eevee, then you deserve MVP here. Your "let me hammer to remove myself" struck to close to home for how I felt earlier this game. I applaud you for that if so.
If you're scum with Joth, then you get a close second. But Joth fooling both Robz and I take the cake for MVP.
If you're not scum, then hopefully we'll be winning soon.
Yes, I thought so. Didn't expect to convince you. Let's hurry this up so I can yell at... I'm actually not even sure, because I understand why you think it's me. I guess so I can yell at myself.If you are town, which I doubt, you WERE completely wrong in your three major reads. Now, that happens, sur. But yelling to anyone but yourself after that would be unfair I think. :)
I don't get the praise to Munch at all either.
Munch, if you're scum with Eevee, then you deserve MVP here. Your "let me hammer to remove myself" struck to close to home for how I felt earlier this game. I applaud you for that if so.
If you're scum with Joth, then you get a close second. But Joth fooling both Robz and I take the cake for MVP.
If you're not scum, then hopefully we'll be winning soon.
I manifestly disagree that he should be congratulated for saying obvious things that scum has to say to spare themselves. Forgive me if I don't insult your intelligence with obvious tactics like this.
ANd Munch/Eevee IS the scum team, Galz. So...
So Robz, you want a pass on always pushing for townies and defending scum because "it's not scummy I'm just always wrong"?
Being the only townie in the mcmc wagon was really bad luck if you are town, you can tell at that.
Oh I get it, it's his "woe is me" routine. Okay, yeah, I don't see that as so townie.I agree and I'm a big sucker for those.
Hi! I'm back.
I'm ok with Eevee hammers Robz. But if Robz flips town well have to decide Eevee/ munch still. If Robz flips scum, we should lynch munch. If this a bus from you, galz, well damn. Well done.
I mean, like this is the only frustrating thing here for me now, Munch getting praised foe his brilliant play. Not doing anything means you don't have anything to be held accountable for later.
The reason I'm such a bad townie is that I always try to control the lynch, always always always, and I'm very often wrong. So there's a lot to hold me accountable for.
Hi! I'm back.
I'm ok with Eevee hammers Robz. But if Robz flips town well have to decide Eevee/ munch still. If Robz flips scum, we should lynch munch. If this a bus from you, galz, well damn. Well done.
Goshdangit I don't get this obvtown status Joth has acquired. No offsense!
I mean, like this is the only frustrating thing here for me now, Munch getting praised foe his brilliant play. Not doing anything means you don't have anything to be held accountable for later.
The reason I'm such a bad townie is that I always try to control the lynch, always always always, and I'm very often wrong. So there's a lot to hold me accountable for.
But I don't blame you at all. For me, if we lose, I'm as much to blame if not more to blame than anyone here. I've also had a ton of bad reads this game and ultimately like Insomniac before me I'm stuck making the call.
After the flips yesterday I was torn between wanting to even play this day and wanting to come back and win it for Insomniac.
Ultimately on you it was a combination of the way you've been stating your cases and the way POE. It's the furthest I've ever felt from a slamdunk case, but I feel it's stronger than the cases on Munch/Eevee/Joth.
My gut has been wrong too many times to follow it staunchly now. I HATE that Munch was the only player on neither wagon. I HATE that he "predicted they would both be town" like he somehow knew ahead of their flips. I haven't liked his "defense" today either. Everything in my gut says he's scum. But it said the same of mcmc and look where that got me.
If he IS scum, then you or Eevee is his partner. Therefore to me one of you gets lynched, the other hammers. If it comes to me/Joth/Munch, I'll lynch Munch. I'm hoping it won't.
But I don't see a compelling reason to think Eevee is more likely a Munch partner than you are, Robz. And I see so many worlds where you're scum. And man, you're freaking crafty as hell as scum. In M-VIII you had me hating myself for lynching you... Until the mod came and you flipped scum.
So I don't know. I'll listen to Joth and follow his advice here, but right now it's Robz lynch Eevee hammer.
It was game over when both Cuzz and Mcmc flipped town. The real scum knew exactly who was going to take the heat for that.
It was game over when both Cuzz and Mcmc flipped town. The real scum knew exactly who was going to take the heat for that.
Man, you're not even taking heat "for that". I haven't made a single argument against you over that. Yeah, I brought up the odds of mcmc being an entire town wagon but the same question applies for Cuzz which had two unknowns (Joth and Eevee). Joth I happen to think is town. If Munch ultimately is scum, then guess what? ONE of those wagons was all town!
It's not been a focal point of any argument though.
It was game over when both Cuzz and Mcmc flipped town. The real scum knew exactly who was going to take the heat for that.
Man, you're not even taking heat "for that". I haven't made a single argument against you over that. Yeah, I brought up the odds of mcmc being an entire town wagon but the same question applies for Cuzz which had two unknowns (Joth and Eevee). Joth I happen to think is town. If Munch ultimately is scum, then guess what? ONE of those wagons was all town!
It's not been a focal point of any argument though.
I am indeed taking heat for that. Its why Eevee argues that I am scum.
Joth, would you rather Eevee hammer Munch?
I agree there's scumminess there. I agree his "Let me hammer please" had an above average impact on me because it's how I felt earlier. If I discount that I feel he has to be scum.
But at the same time I feel like it's the easy answer and the easy answer is never right!
Joth, would you rather Eevee hammer Munch?
I agree there's scumminess there. I agree his "Let me hammer please" had an above average impact on me because it's how I felt earlier. If I discount that I feel he has to be scum.
But at the same time I feel like it's the easy answer and the easy answer is never right!
I think I would like that better.
But is that just the effect of Robz buddying me?
(Also, why are you set on Eevee being the hammer? You're convinced that whichever one's scum, he's the partner? In that case, why not lynch Eevee?)
So Munch lynch Robz hammer? Man, I feel like I've come full circle here.
This is my preference #1.So Munch lynch Robz hammer? Man, I feel like I've come full circle here.
I support this, obviously.
So Munch lynch Robz hammer? Man, I feel like I've come full circle here.
I support this, obviously.
and again, the problem where everyone is ok with it.
But I wouldn't put it past Munch's partner to be bussing right now.
Although I guess it would have to be Eevee, in that case. Unless Robz's offer to hammer is insincere.
I would absolutely expect scum to be ok with bussing at this point. They can't risk not to, in my opinion.
I would absolutely expect scum to be ok with bussing at this point. They can't risk not to, in my opinion.
I would absolutely expect scum to be ok with bussing at this point. They can't risk not to, in my opinion.
But wouldn't my unequivocal "I will not lynch Joth, so if we flip 1 scum 1 town I will lynch the odd man left" give them pause? They CAN'T bus or it's game over - because I'm serious, I won't lunch Joth.
Both Munch and Joth started the day with "why is Galz an IC".I would absolutely expect scum to be ok with bussing at this point. They can't risk not to, in my opinion.
But wouldn't my unequivocal "I will not lynch Joth, so if we flip 1 scum 1 town I will lynch the odd man left" give them pause? They CAN'T bus or it's game over - because I'm serious, I won't lunch Joth.
Agreed.I would absolutely expect scum to be ok with bussing at this point. They can't risk not to, in my opinion.
But wouldn't my unequivocal "I will not lynch Joth, so if we flip 1 scum 1 town I will lynch the odd man left" give them pause? They CAN'T bus or it's game over - because I'm serious, I won't lunch Joth.
I think they'll see it the way I see it: Obviously untrue. You can and do change your mind, perhaps more often than you realize.
Both Munch and Joth started the day with "why is Galz an IC".I would absolutely expect scum to be ok with bussing at this point. They can't risk not to, in my opinion.
But wouldn't my unequivocal "I will not lynch Joth, so if we flip 1 scum 1 town I will lynch the odd man left" give them pause? They CAN'T bus or it's game over - because I'm serious, I won't lunch Joth.
Yeah, but it's not nice like everyone has been been praising this plan all day even though it means scum has no chance.Both Munch and Joth started the day with "why is Galz an IC".I would absolutely expect scum to be ok with bussing at this point. They can't risk not to, in my opinion.
But wouldn't my unequivocal "I will not lynch Joth, so if we flip 1 scum 1 town I will lynch the odd man left" give them pause? They CAN'T bus or it's game over - because I'm serious, I won't lunch Joth.
Yep. And I take no issue with the question.
I would absolutely expect scum to be ok with bussing at this point. They can't risk not to, in my opinion.
But wouldn't my unequivocal "I will not lynch Joth, so if we flip 1 scum 1 town I will lynch the odd man left" give them pause? They CAN'T bus or it's game over - because I'm serious, I won't lunch Joth.
I think they'll see it the way I see it: Obviously untrue. You can and do change your mind, perhaps more often than you realize.
Please scum don't slowroll us if you won!
Why?
KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN
Why?
Make Eevee or Munch or whoever look bad. No matter what Galz says, he WOULD have reconsidered you after my flip, Jo. Why not lave him the maximum number of other suspects?
Please scum don't slowroll us if you won!
Ok, it was me and Robz.
Galzria, I don't think you'll ever trust me again.
Game over scum wins. It was joth and Robz.
So do i win? found mafia immediatly? was wrong about cuzz but thats reasonable with his posts.
Please scum don't slowroll us if you won!
Ok, it was me and Robz.
Galzria, I don't think you'll ever trust me again.
Eh, it happens. It was always a real possibility, but one I didn't feel I could control. Props to you for reading town to me. Best I think I could've gotten was a Robz lynch, and I wasn't likely to pick you to hammer, so there it is.
I'm sad, but not really surprised. I knew there was scum in Robz/Eevee, and I did honestly think it was Robz - but beyond that I didn't know and eventually somewhere I was going to have to make a guess. Putting it on you was the safest thing I thought I could do.
I was wrong.
So do i win? found mafia immediatly? was wrong about cuzz but thats reasonable with his posts.
No you still lose ;D
You made me work really hard, though.
Game over scum wins. It was joth and Robz.
that's all the flavor we get?
I was absolutely going to self-hammer if I received 2 votes.
One tactic we leveraged is that we knew, explicitly, that when someone reads another as town, Galz looks for scum buddying town. So I chose to buddy my scumbuddy here, which did work. It made Robz/Joth the least likely pairing to Galz.
I was absolutely going to self-hammer if I received 2 votes.
No you wouldn't. If you were the lynch I would've forced you to vote as number two, otherwise fully admit guilt. If you refused to do that I would've had one person place a vote on you, then waited until deadline to drop a second.
One tactic we leveraged is that we knew, explicitly, that when someone reads another as town, Galz looks for scum buddying town. So I chose to buddy my scumbuddy here, which did work. It made Robz/Joth the least likely pairing to Galz.
I knew fully this was quite possible. I even put it in a post somewhere as consideration for a Robz lynch, Joth hammer.
mcmc, the sad lesson of mafia is that picking the scum team is only half of winning. Getting other people to listen to you is the other half.
The happy ending is your performance here will probably make people more likely to listen to you in the future. You played VERY well and your reads had me scared often!
I was absolutely going to self-hammer if I received 2 votes.
No you wouldn't. If you were the lynch I would've forced you to vote as number two, otherwise fully admit guilt. If you refused to do that I would've had one person place a vote on you, then waited until deadline to drop a second.
We did consider killing Galz instead of Ins, but we worried that would freak Ins out into adopting some better reads.
mcmc, the sad lesson of mafia is that picking the scum team is only half of winning. Getting other people to listen to you is the other half.
The happy ending is your performance here will probably make people more likely to listen to you in the future. You played VERY well and your reads had me scared often!
my town cred D1 went to my head, that along with noone listening to me when robz defense of you was sooooooooooo scummy put me over the edge, i understand my screw the ic post was terrible but I shall learn and improve
We did consider killing Galz instead of Ins, but we worried that would freak Ins out into adopting some better reads.
I would have 180'd my reads
Also, EVERYONE GO SIGN UP FOR ZMXI! YOU'LL REGRET MISSING IT /shameless plug
Yeah I cant play another Blitz, although I like it much more than regular.No you didn't, no no no.
I definitely lost this game for town. LVP TheMunch.
Wait. Seriously. You guys killed me when I was teaching?! Sigh....
I should have been around. So much I wanted to say. I actually figured it out while I was rereading. Galz, you had it right. It wasn't a "fine I'll do what ever". It was "Please god make me flip so you guys dont make a terrible decision. If you guys had me hammer Robz, it would have been gg.
Also, EVERYONE GO SIGN UP FOR ZMXI! YOU'LL REGRET MISSING IT /shameless plug
I'd love to, but man, I need a break. Both days were so freaking stressful.
I tried my best to avenge you though. Ahh well.
We did consider killing Galz instead of Ins, but we worried that would freak Ins out into adopting some better reads.
I would have 180'd my reads
To elaborate on this, I wouldn't expect a scum team with munch to nk galz over me. I would expect a team like Robz/Joth to try it.
Wait. Seriously. You guys killed me when I was teaching?! Sigh....
I should have been around. So much I wanted to say. I actually figured it out while I was rereading. Galz, you had it right. It wasn't a "fine I'll do what ever". It was "Please god make me flip so you guys dont make a terrible decision. If you guys had me hammer Robz, it would have been gg.
Yeah I cant play another Blitz, although I like it much more than regular.
I definitely lost this game for town. LVP TheMunch.
I feel like I ultimately got lynched for exactly the same reason as mcmc, I just couldn't for the life of me figure out who were actually pushing it. Towards the end, the joth/robz scum team was so obvious!!! MVP: Finishing the game before I got back!
PPE: You should have waited for me to get back, especially when I said I would be back at 3. We could have had a nice chat about how I figured out you were town.
Yeah I cant play another Blitz, although I like it much more than regular.
I definitely lost this game for town. LVP TheMunch.
Yeah I cant play another Blitz, although I like it much more than regular.
I definitely lost this game for town. LVP TheMunch.
Absolutely wasn't your fault. You were in a hell of a corner and I even made the right read to start with. Then without you saying anything at all I flipped it and lynched you. This one's on me.
I feel like I ultimately got lynched for exactly the same reason as mcmc, I just couldn't for the life of me figure out who were actually pushing it. Towards the end, the joth/robz scum team was so obvious!!! MVP: Finishing the game before I got back!
PPE: You should have waited for me to get back, especially when I said I would be back at 3. We could have had a nice chat about how I figured out you were town.
Anyways I think if you like blitz you should keep playin em you are a good player although I admit to having a scum bias on you.
yea blitz is definetly my favorit, partially because the less people is a whole lot easier for me to wrap my brain around.
I feel like I ultimately got lynched for exactly the same reason as mcmc, I just couldn't for the life of me figure out who were actually pushing it. Towards the end, the joth/robz scum team was so obvious!!! MVP: Finishing the game before I got back!
PPE: You should have waited for me to get back, especially when I said I would be back at 3. We could have had a nice chat about how I figured out you were town.
Anyways I think if you like blitz you should keep playin em you are a good player although I admit to having a scum bias on you.
I thought our arguments in Casino would actually lead you the other way.
I feel like I ultimately got lynched for exactly the same reason as mcmc, I just couldn't for the life of me figure out who were actually pushing it. Towards the end, the joth/robz scum team was so obvious!!! MVP: Finishing the game before I got back!
PPE: You should have waited for me to get back, especially when I said I would be back at 3. We could have had a nice chat about how I figured out you were town.
I thought for a second galz would have munch hammer robz and then hopefully make the connection to joth.
(And obviously congrats jo for replicating your town meta so well)
BTW Robz congrats on doing an MXII. Hyper active scum.
ok, I seriously have work to do. but this was great fun. Thanks for twisting my arm into playing, ash.
ok, I seriously have work to do. but this was great fun. Thanks for twisting my arm into playing, ash.
Twist twist go play XI ;)
ok, I seriously have work to do. but this was great fun. Thanks for twisting my arm into playing, ash.
Twist twist go play XI ;)
ok, I seriously have work to do. but this was great fun. Thanks for twisting my arm into playing, ash.
Twist twist go play XI ;)
Is it a normal setup?
The thing is, TheMunch, I don't know if you've seen all the other times I tried and failed to mimic my town meta. Switch, for instance.
WOrst fakeclaim. IIRC, I claimed to have investigated someone who was not even playing at that time.
WOrst fakeclaim. IIRC, I claimed to have investigated someone who was not even playing at that time.
You claimed doc
An aside. At the beginning of day 1 I asked how people felt about Eevee's post with the intent of looking for a certain answer I expected to come from scum. Two people answered the way I expected scum to, Galzria and.......Joth. I persecuted Galz while leaving Joth completely alone.
Here's something actually useful though. I won't be a complete Dick to the rest of town:
Joth is my #1 scum read. It was (I think) post #151 that he gave his read on Eevee and parrot'ed me almost word for word.
He then made a future post about how scum would "think" that just reaked of "My buddies are lurking, but no way scum would do that. Let's all think how scum would think here!" - It was absolutely a classic scum redirect post.
I do think small numbers and set-ups that generally will end by D2 are best for Blitz, and would suggest we keep it that way.+1
It's awesome. I would roll IC every day if I could.
And the way Jo was not suspected by anyone was just fantastic.
So, conflicting. On the other hand I feel like trying to feel it out and being careful with my votes given it's a new setup. On the other hand, no games never get anywhere unless people actually commit to voting for the people they find scummy, so eh. But, the first half of day 1 should run pretty close to how it normally would, except no "lock" situation will ever be reached which never was an issue in blitz in the first place.
I would like EVERYONE to comment on this post and how it reflects on Eevee.
It gives me a slightly scummy vibe, outside of Eevee's meta. It has the stink of IIoA.
But it could so very easily be town Eevee, I don't place much store.
"Commander Ozle, shall we follow through with the promise of destroying Earth if the town failed?"
"..."
"Commander Ozle?" Ah, forget it. I'm sure the network will want to do this again anyway. Not like we've found humans anywhere else.
The captain of the alien ship flipped a switch and the surviving town members were transported back to Earth, memories wiped...again.
Congrats to Robz888 and Jotheonah, who played a phenomenal game. Thanks to everyone for playing my decidedly difficult game, and for pointing out the broken bits instead of just using them.
MVP: Jo
I read over the endgame there, and saw Robz save his hide somehow, but realized it was thanks to Jo swooping in. And the way Jo was not suspected by anyone was just fantastic. Robz obviously helped build that up. Great team work, totally.
Slap on the back: Insomniac. I am going on the record now with this: rolling the IC in Blitz games is the most difficult role we have (so far) on f.ds mafia. The pressure is intense, and the price we pay for being wrong is especially high. I think most of us push ourselves too hard, too. Insom has had to do this twice, as well. It is just really hard.
I do think this set-up had a lot of potential. 4 mods didn't catch the vote all break, for some reason. As you saw in the mod QT, we didn't actually have a fix for the tie--we really didn't think you could pull it off. I mean, we had a fix, but didn't want to use them. I think the thought of having it out there was part of the mental game.
I look forward to taking a break from modding Blitz games. I may be back with one in the future, but want to watch Insom's next creation, which is awesome (I have an inside look), and see what others come up with. I do think small numbers and set-ups that generally will end by D2 are best for Blitz, and would suggest we keep it that way.
And the way Jo was not suspected by anyone was just fantastic.
...Cough...
"Commander Ozle, shall we follow through with the promise of destroying Earth if the town failed?"
"..."
"Commander Ozle?" Ah, forget it. I'm sure the network will want to do this again anyway. Not like we've found humans anywhere else.
The captain of the alien ship flipped a switch and the surviving town members were transported back to Earth, memories wiped...again.
Congrats to Robz888 and Jotheonah, who played a phenomenal game. Thanks to everyone for playing my decidedly difficult game, and for pointing out the broken bits instead of just using them.
MVP: Jo
I read over the endgame there, and saw Robz save his hide somehow, but realized it was thanks to Jo swooping in. And the way Jo was not suspected by anyone was just fantastic. Robz obviously helped build that up. Great team work, totally.
Slap on the back: Insomniac. I am going on the record now with this: rolling the IC in Blitz games is the most difficult role we have (so far) on f.ds mafia. The pressure is intense, and the price we pay for being wrong is especially high. I think most of us push ourselves too hard, too. Insom has had to do this twice, as well. It is just really hard.
I do think this set-up had a lot of potential. 4 mods didn't catch the vote all break, for some reason. As you saw in the mod QT, we didn't actually have a fix for the tie--we really didn't think you could pull it off. I mean, we had a fix, but didn't want to use them. I think the thought of having it out there was part of the mental game.
I look forward to taking a break from modding Blitz games. I may be back with one in the future, but want to watch Insom's next creation, which is awesome (I have an inside look), and see what others come up with. I do think small numbers and set-ups that generally will end by D2 are best for Blitz, and would suggest we keep it that way.
OZLE SAY KILL PUNY HUMANS AFTER LAUGHING AT THEIR FOOLISH WAYS!!
EAT THE ONE CALLED INSOMNIAX FIRST, HE LOOKS TASTY!
And then possibly a nice white wine and a little fish?
no way I could spend the amount of time you all spend on this in one go. I just about read a lot of this, but coming up with actual useful posts of my own to contribute wouldnt happen.
i'd just lurk and read and post the odd PoS post