Dominion Strategy Forum
Dominion => Dominion Online at Shuffle iT => Dominion General Discussion => Goko Dominion Online => Topic started by: yuma on September 18, 2012, 03:10:47 pm
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I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere, but I just went to the Dominion Store and found this out:
This card (Walled Village) can only be purchased if you are logged into Goko using your Google + credentials.
Can I just say that this is just plain stupid!
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Weird, I fail to see the purpose of that!
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So that's a Google Wallet Village now?
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It was something Google wanted. You'll have to ask them why they wanted it. It doesn't cost anything so I didn't veto it.
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It might cost you (being the collective of Goko / RGG / DXV) some fans?
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It was something Google wanted. You'll have to ask them why they wanted it. It doesn't cost anything so I didn't veto it.
Probably so they can track it.
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It was something Google wanted. You'll have to ask them why they wanted it. It doesn't cost anything so I didn't veto it.
Probably so they can track it.
... or to get someone to use Wallet?
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It was something Google wanted. You'll have to ask them why they wanted it. It doesn't cost anything so I didn't veto it.
If you have a login that isn't attached to google or facebook, can you connect it temporarily to do this? Not that big of a deal, just curious.
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So if I don't want to use my Google+ account I can't buy a promo card....thats ridiculous.
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Ridiculous. Seriously ridiculous. What's next, Black Market will require an eBay account? (That would be amusing for other reasons, though.)
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George is getting upset!
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So if I don't want to use my Google+ account I can't buy a promo card....thats ridiculous.
You're really that upset about losing Walled Village?
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So if I don't want to use my Google+ account I can't buy a promo card....thats ridiculous.
You're really that upset about losing Walled Village?
How am i supposed to Walled Village + Graverobber + Pillage!
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So if I don't want to use my Google+ account I can't buy a promo card....thats ridiculous.
You're really that upset about losing Walled Village?
How am i supposed to Walled Village + Graverobber + Pillage!
Scheme. Walled Village wouldn't guarantee the Graverobber would get replaced - you'd need a pretty high Graverobber density for that.
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I for one have stopped caring and think this is hilariously awesome.
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I for one have stopped caring and think this is hilariously awesome.
I would like Walled Village to be renamed to "Google presents Walled Village". The bonus is that now WV can refer exclusively to Worker's Village, and Walled Village can be GPWV.
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Grand Market: this cannot be bought if you have any Yahoo! in play.
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It was something Google wanted. You'll have to ask them why they wanted it. It doesn't cost anything so I didn't veto it.
Woah, hold up just a sec. Google has a say in how some random start-up boardgaming website implements a purchasing method for a random promo item in their store?
How bizarrely specific. Maybe we just discovered Larry & Sergei's favorite card!
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It might cost you (being the collective of Goko / RGG / DXV) some fans?
I don't follow you. Are you morally opposed to Google? You spend a few seconds on Google and you're done. Personally I am on multiple Google sites every day.
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It might cost you (being the collective of Goko / RGG / DXV) some fans?
I don't follow you. Are you morally opposed to Google? You spend a few seconds on Google and you're done. Personally I am on multiple Google sites every day.
I'm opposed to being forced to log in with my google id.
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I got scared away by:
FunSocketsTestApp is requesting permission to:
View basic information about your account
Know who you are on Google
Perform these operations when I'm not using the application
Specifically the last point.
That and it using me real name from my google account as my public in game name.
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I'm opposed to being forced to log in with my google id.
Well you can make a new google account pretty quickly, and use that one. It will come in handy later when you want to be anonymous somewhere.
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That and it using me real name from my google account as my public in game name.
If this is true, it's definitely an issue for a lot of players. Various games (and game forums) have tried 'real ID' systems (where your real name is your public name) over the years, and it is *always* met with severe outcry/cancellations. You can find a good example of this in World of Warcraft, where a significant percentage of the player-base threatened (and actually started) to quit over it.
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I'm opposed to being forced to log in with my google id.
Well you can make a new google account pretty quickly, and use that one. It will come in handy later when you want to be anonymous somewhere.
When you want to be anonymous, the trick is not to reuse existing accounts.
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Or - I could complain it on the internet, hope that other people do the same, and maybe the company will change its behavior as a response to consumer feedback.
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You can actually change your user name, but it is not obvious how to do so. First, you need to go to the Goko site where you can beta test all three current games and up on top your name appears, click on it and you can change it.
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Or - I could complain it on the internet, hope that other people do the same, and maybe the company will change its behavior as a response to consumer feedback.
Given that they actually named Google there, I think a change is very unlikely. I think Google is who you have to convince at this point.
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So will this mean that perhaps other promo cards will require other accounts? If Envoy requires Yahoo, does that mean you won't be able to own both Envoy and Walled Village on the same account? Or can you sign in under both?
If nothing else, this is yet more impetus for me to create an email account specifically for interacting with Goko. Can't be too careful.
In general, I agree that it's ridiculous, and sets a bad precedent. Will I not be able to buy Hinterlands without a specific type of login?
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Or - I could complain it on the internet, hope that other people do the same, and maybe the company will change its behavior as a response to consumer feedback.
Not bloody likely. Inelasticity is at work.
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So will this mean that perhaps other promo cards will require other accounts? If Envoy requires Yahoo, does that mean you won't be able to own both Envoy and Walled Village on the same account? Or can you sign in under both?
If nothing else, this is yet more impetus for me to create an email account specifically for interacting with Goko. Can't be too careful.
In general, I agree that it's ridiculous, and sets a bad precedent. Will I not be able to buy Hinterlands without a specific type of login?
No other existing things have such requirements. As always I am trying to be precise here. I know of no plans to make a new campaign and tie it to Yahoo, or any other such random thing I couldn't possibly anticipate. No such thing will exist at re-launch, because I would know about it already. And I wouldn't agree to tie whatever to Hinterlands etc.
Google wanted a card. What's Google's involvement here, anyway? Man, not for me to say. They wanted a card though, that seems fair to say, and it did not sound unreasonable enough to reject (well, I rejected making a new card for them).
And that's all behind us. They got Walled Village, now you know. Go scream about it to Google if you want. If you want to scream at Goko, scream useful things that can actually result in the game being improved.
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So will this mean that perhaps other promo cards will require other accounts? If Envoy requires Yahoo, does that mean you won't be able to own both Envoy and Walled Village on the same account? Or can you sign in under both?
If nothing else, this is yet more impetus for me to create an email account specifically for interacting with Goko. Can't be too careful.
In general, I agree that it's ridiculous, and sets a bad precedent. Will I not be able to buy Hinterlands without a specific type of login?
No other existing things have such requirements. As always I am trying to be precise here. I know of no plans to make a new campaign and tie it to Yahoo, or any other such random thing I couldn't possibly anticipate. No such thing will exist at re-launch, because I would know about it already. And I wouldn't agree to tie whatever to Hinterlands etc.
Google wanted a card. What's Google's involvement here, anyway? Man, not for me to say. They wanted a card though, that seems fair to say, and it did not sound unreasonable enough to reject (well, I rejected making a new card for them).
And that's all behind us. They got Walled Village, now you know. Go scream about it to Google if you want. If you want to scream at Goko, scream useful things that can actually result in the game being improved.
I expect a Google card would be Scavenger. Search for the card you want!
Or maybe Hunting Party or Sage.
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It's bad customer service to tie customers into providers that they don't want to use.
Will the web adverts on Goko be provided by any chance by Google? Will the use of a google id for customer accounts be used for targeted advertising, by any chance?
(I haven't seen adverts in Goko Dominion but I have seen adverts elsewhere in the Goko beta)
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DG, we're only allowed to be complaining about crap that can be changed (...?), not crap that can't be changed! Donald himself said so.
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Do you have a contact @ google to complain to? I assume that goko does.
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(I haven't seen adverts in Goko Dominion but I have seen adverts elsewhere in the Goko beta)
This may or may not be the place to post this, but I have seen an advertisement on Goko Dominion. After the latest update, I "purchased" Parade of Misfits and started the first Dark Ages Adventure mode match. Before the first game actually started, an ad ran. I couldn't tell you what it was for because I immediately muted it and stopped paying attention. I was livid at the time. Having ads in a free product is one thing, but this is something that they are eventually charging real money for.
After that, I played a few Single Player mode games against the AI and no more ads appeared. I'm not sure whether the appearance of the ads is based on what mode you play, how long you've been playing, how many games you've played, or some combination of the above. I could learn to live with them as long as they don't pop up constantly.
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It's bad customer service to tie customers into providers that they don't want to use.
Will the web adverts on Goko be provided by any chance by Google? Will the use of a google id for customer accounts be used for targeted advertising, by any chance?
(I haven't seen adverts in Goko Dominion but I have seen adverts elsewhere in the Goko beta)
I don't have the answers to these or any other such questions.
The Google thing that I know turns out to be public after all. From insidesocialgames.com:
We saw Dominion in action at Google i/o and have been participating in the closed beta on the web since; the game is a standard take on the original board game with support for up to four players, but can utilize the technology of Google Hangouts so users can see each other while they play.
And to rephrase that: Dominion will be playable on Google, whatever that means exactly, you know, and it will be playable in Google Hangouts, whatever that means.
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DG, we're only allowed to be complaining about crap that can be changed (...?), not crap that can't be changed! Donald himself said so.
Hi Fabian.
Complain about whatever you want here. Donald X. gives you permission. As if, amirite? But if you are bugging Goko about it then you are teaching them not to read feedback at all, because man they have a game to get launched.
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They do, don't they?
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Do you have a contact @ google to complain to? I assume that goko does.
dude have you tried
googling it
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It might cost you (being the collective of Goko / RGG / DXV) some fans?
I don't follow you. Are you morally opposed to Google? You spend a few seconds on Google and you're done. Personally I am on multiple Google sites every day.
It's so funny how you think you can tell people what things they will mind.
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(I haven't seen adverts in Goko Dominion but I have seen adverts elsewhere in the Goko beta)
This may or may not be the place to post this, but I have seen an advertisement on Goko Dominion. After the latest update, I "purchased" Parade of Misfits and started the first Dark Ages Adventure mode match. Before the first game actually started, an ad ran. I couldn't tell you what it was for because I immediately muted it and stopped paying attention. I was livid at the time. Having ads in a free product is one thing, but this is something that they are eventually charging real money for.
After that, I played a few Single Player mode games against the AI and no more ads appeared. I'm not sure whether the appearance of the ads is based on what mode you play, how long you've been playing, how many games you've played, or some combination of the above. I could learn to live with them as long as they don't pop up constantly.
I agree. If I'm paying money for a product, I shouldn't have to see ads. Then, again, when you pay to see a movie at a movie theater, you do get a bunch of trailers beforehand.
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Or - I could complain it on the internet, hope that other people do the same, and maybe the company will change its behavior as a response to consumer feedback.
Yeah, what was that old marketing adage? Something like: for every person that writes a letter of complaint, 100 more people are likely pissed off, too.
Of course an angry forum post is probably worth a lot less than an actual signed letter in a stamped envelope sent through the post, but ya take what ya can get, innit?
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And that's all behind us. They got Walled Village, now you know. Go scream about it to Google if you want. If you want to scream at Goko, scream useful things that can actually result in the game being improved.
I expect a Google card would be Scavenger. Search for the card you want!
Or maybe Hunting Party or Sage.
I bet the card they *really* wanted Donald to make was Walled Garden. Walled village had to suffice. Google's been 'over' search for years now.
And, a little bit more on-topic:
http://support.google.com/plus/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=1228271, which says that your attempt to create an anonymous Google+ account (for dominion purposes) will get that account suspended, and you will not be able to make full use of Google services that require an active profile (Like, depending on the implementation, Goko, or the WalledVillage you paid for)
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(I haven't seen adverts in Goko Dominion but I have seen adverts elsewhere in the Goko beta)
This may or may not be the place to post this, but I have seen an advertisement on Goko Dominion. After the latest update, I "purchased" Parade of Misfits and started the first Dark Ages Adventure mode match. Before the first game actually started, an ad ran. I couldn't tell you what it was for because I immediately muted it and stopped paying attention. I was livid at the time. Having ads in a free product is one thing, but this is something that they are eventually charging real money for.
After that, I played a few Single Player mode games against the AI and no more ads appeared. I'm not sure whether the appearance of the ads is based on what mode you play, how long you've been playing, how many games you've played, or some combination of the above. I could learn to live with them as long as they don't pop up constantly.
I really like that it'll be possible to play dominion through google hangouts, I don't like that I'll have to use that account to log in but I can deal with it.
LastFootnote, it was a popup? New window or a clickthrough? Or was it something on the side? Because I absolutely will not pay 50+ dollars for a product if I'm gonna have to watch, or even click through, an ad before playing each game.
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Google wants people to use their group video chats more. If goku is a success, many people will probably try to play over google hangout with their friends. Before the game can start, every player must agree to to the OAuth dialog which Rabid posted earlier. While most people will probably agree to it, it is still a friction point that decreases conversions, particularly when all players must agree for any of them to play. By encouraging everyone to grant goku a google OAuth token in exchange for a walled village, google is removing that friction point.
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(I haven't seen adverts in Goko Dominion but I have seen adverts elsewhere in the Goko beta)
This may or may not be the place to post this, but I have seen an advertisement on Goko Dominion. After the latest update, I "purchased" Parade of Misfits and started the first Dark Ages Adventure mode match. Before the first game actually started, an ad ran. I couldn't tell you what it was for because I immediately muted it and stopped paying attention. I was livid at the time. Having ads in a free product is one thing, but this is something that they are eventually charging real money for.
After that, I played a few Single Player mode games against the AI and no more ads appeared. I'm not sure whether the appearance of the ads is based on what mode you play, how long you've been playing, how many games you've played, or some combination of the above. I could learn to live with them as long as they don't pop up constantly.
I really like that it'll be possible to play dominion through google hangouts, I don't like that I'll have to use that account to log in but I can deal with it.
LastFootnote, it was a popup? New window or a clickthrough? Or was it something on the side? Because I absolutely will not pay 50+ dollars for a product if I'm gonna have to watch, or even click through, an ad before playing each game.
You should only have to go through the dialog once. At some point, goku might start showing ads but this is probably more about google playing them to drive traffic towards google+.
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(I haven't seen adverts in Goko Dominion but I have seen adverts elsewhere in the Goko beta)
This may or may not be the place to post this, but I have seen an advertisement on Goko Dominion. After the latest update, I "purchased" Parade of Misfits and started the first Dark Ages Adventure mode match. Before the first game actually started, an ad ran. I couldn't tell you what it was for because I immediately muted it and stopped paying attention. I was livid at the time. Having ads in a free product is one thing, but this is something that they are eventually charging real money for.
After that, I played a few Single Player mode games against the AI and no more ads appeared. I'm not sure whether the appearance of the ads is based on what mode you play, how long you've been playing, how many games you've played, or some combination of the above. I could learn to live with them as long as they don't pop up constantly.
I really like that it'll be possible to play dominion through google hangouts, I don't like that I'll have to use that account to log in but I can deal with it.
LastFootnote, it was a popup? New window or a clickthrough? Or was it something on the side? Because I absolutely will not pay 50+ dollars for a product if I'm gonna have to watch, or even click through, an ad before playing each game.
You should only have to go through the dialog once. At some point, goku might start showing ads but this is probably more about google playing them to drive traffic towards google+.
I don't think he was talking about going through google though? It looks like he was just beginning an adventure mode game. I will be so angry with goko if they start giving me (obnoxious) ads after I've paid for the product.
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I don't want to get too involved in the ads because we really don't know what Goko have planned, whether they will only be shown to free users of the system, or whether they will be in Dominion at all. A statement from Goko might be nice to clear up any confusion.
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I don't want to get too involved in the ads because we really don't know what Goko have planned, whether they will only be shown to free users of the system, or whether they will be in Dominion at all. A statement from Goko might be nice to clear up any confusion.
I absolutely agree.
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Right now, they are planning on incorporating ads. Poking around the source of the web page revealed several things:
- You can get rid of them by paying (enough) money : "Please support our sponsors – their ads help us bring you games for free. If you would like to skip these ads in the future, buy an individual Dominion expansion, Complete Expansion, or Super Pack with Gokoins in the store." Parade of Misfits is not a complete expansion, so LastFootnote will be stuck with ads until buying more. I bought all the expansions when I logged into the reset beta and haven't seen any ads.
- The ads will play for 35 seconds with width of 660px and height of 400px (on my computer).
- Currently, the ads are for Wild Tangent(which apparently is still in buinesses after installing bloatware on millions of computers? According to wikipedia, they make money now by selling 'WildCoins').
- The ads make a call to doubleclick. Between that and the frequent google-analytics throughout the goku client, I don't think anyone is losing that much privacy by logging in with their google ID.
- The ads will play no more then once every 13 minutes.
- WildTangent ads don't work on iOS and aren't allow in google hangouts, so there are no ads on those platforms (for now).
- Code comment:
// There are two scenarios of show ads:
// 1. Multiplay game
// - show ads or not base on host table (showAds flag in table setting), the flag should be set
// after owner create table
// 2. Single play (campaign, single play .. no table or no showAds in table settings)
// - if player is premium user, not so ads anymore
// - if not, ads will be showed if reaches due time (aka "13m")
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You can get rid of them by paying (enough) money : "Please support our sponsors – their ads help us bring you games for free. If you would like to skip these ads in the future, buy an individual Dominion expansion, Complete Expansion, or Super Pack with Gokoins in the store." Parade of Misfits is not a complete expansion, so LastFootnote will be stuck with ads until buying more. I bought all the expansions when I logged into the reset beta and haven't seen any ads.
Well, what's the difference between "individual Dominion expansion" or "Complete Expansion"? I would expect that if you paid for anything, including a partial expansion (which is only partial compared to the physical sets; they might consider them "complete" for Goko), ads would be gone.
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Right now, they are planning on incorporating ads. Poking around the source of the web page revealed several things:
- You can get rid of them by paying (enough) money : "Please support our sponsors – their ads help us bring you games for free. If you would like to skip these ads in the future, buy an individual Dominion expansion, Complete Expansion, or Super Pack with Gokoins in the store." Parade of Misfits is not a complete expansion, so LastFootnote will be stuck with ads until buying more. I bought all the expansions when I logged into the reset beta and haven't seen any ads.
- The ads will play for 35 seconds with width of 660px and height of 400px (on my computer).
- Currently, the ads are for Wild Tangent(which apparently is still in buinesses after installing bloatware on millions of computers? According to wikipedia, they make money now by selling 'WildCoins').
- The ads make a call to doubleclick. Between that and the frequent google-analytics throughout the goku client, I don't think anyone is losing that much privacy by logging in with their google ID.
- The ads will play no more then once every 13 minutes.
- WildTangent ads don't work on iOS and aren't allow in google hangouts, so there are no ads on those platforms (for now).
- Code comment:
// There are two scenarios of show ads:
// 1. Multiplay game
// - show ads or not base on host table (showAds flag in table setting), the flag should be set
// after owner create table
// 2. Single play (campaign, single play .. no table or no showAds in table settings)
// - if player is premium user, not so ads anymore
// - if not, ads will be showed if reaches due time (aka "13m")
Wow, they're still publishing comments in their served code? Super professional.
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So assuming that people who have paid won't see ads, I'm fine with that. Personally, I run Ad-Block Plus on both Firefox and Chrome, so I only see ads on sites I unblock anyway because I want to support them.
The Walled Village thing is silly though. Using Google login auth, like isotropic does, is one thing; fetching G+ information and real names is something else entirely.
That and it using me real name from my google account as my public in game name.
If this is true, it's definitely an issue for a lot of players. Various games (and game forums) have tried 'real ID' systems (where your real name is your public name) over the years, and it is *always* met with severe outcry/cancellations. You can find a good example of this in World of Warcraft, where a significant percentage of the player-base threatened (and actually started) to quit over it.
*raises hand*
I actually cancelled my WoW subscription during that kerfuffle. When the kerfuffle ended with Blizzard realizing it was a really bad idea, I resubscribed, though at first I dropped to the monthly rather than six-month subscription I'd previously had. Just because I wanted to be sure.
If my real name is displayed to other users by Goko, that's another dealbreaker.
Wow, they're still publishing comments in their served code? Super professional.
It's a beta. I can forgive them that part during a beta; who knows, maybe they want us to see it.
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The more I think about this, the less I like it. I don't care if it's Goko or Google doing it; the point is that there will not be equal access to the cards--which is equivalent, in my opinion, to not having all cards available (for purchase) to all people. People who don't have or don't want a Google account--which, as noted above, can't be anonymous any longer--cannot get the Walled Village card. This breaks tournament play (even more).
And it's just plain silly.
And it saddens me to realize we're going to lose so many good players from the online community because of things like this, as well as the big issues.
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I for one have stopped caring and think this is hilariously awesome.
Ditto! This exceeds my expectations of insanity from Goko. I know this kind of promo item has been done before in other video games, but it's a very video game-ish thing to do. It doesn't fit a board game at all.
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I'm opposed to being forced to log in with my google id.
Well you can make a new google account pretty quickly, and use that one. It will come in handy later when you want to be anonymous somewhere.
Google's terms of service for Google+ say you must use your actual real name. See http://support.google.com/plus/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=1228271 (http://support.google.com/plus/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=1228271) -- if you try to anonymize yourself you are violating the terms of service.
Facebook does some pretty creepy checks to verify they think you're using your real name and will make you provide intrusive details such as your phone number if they don't believe you. I wouldn't be surprised if Google does the same or will do so in the future.
(Note I post this under the understanding you have to use your Google+ account, not just a gmail account, which doesn't have the same requirements).
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Even though you log in with Google, you can still change your username on Goko. It is can of hard and unintutive to figure out, but it is possible.
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how do you do that?
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In protest, we should all sign in with newly-created Google+ accounts and for our real names put down Guy Fawkes.
Actually, that's exactly what I'm going to do.
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I'm so getting the feeling that by the time the Goko version actually comes out, we've all moved on to the next best thing.
And the people who will be playing are the ones who love cut-the-rope, angry birds and what not.
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I'm so getting the feeling that by the time the Goko version actually comes out, we've all moved on to the next best thing.
And the people who will be playing are the ones who love cut-the-rope, angry birds and what not.
Hmm, so when will our Holodecks be ready?
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I bet the card they *really* wanted Donald to make was Walled Garden.
Action/Victory, Cost 5, 2vp. +1 card +1 action. When you discard this from play, put it on top of your deck. (You still get your hand, but you have to get it through the walled garden.)
But that's more like Apple :P
Google have far better policies than most companies when it comes to deleting and/or moving out your data from their services. Backing up gmail offline is easy and a thing I recommend everyone should do (if you can do with poorer search), you can delete it from gmail afterwards. Not many people know you can look at and edit your search history at history.google.com . www.dataliberation.org shows you what options are available for migrating off Google services - and it's actually a team at Google that's behind it.
A promo card only available if you log in with Google+ is not particularly worse than cards only available if you pay, IMO. Sure, Goko gets your real identity (assuming you don't lie), but if you're paying them with a credit card they probably have that already. As always, how anonymous you want to stay is a tradeoff.
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Personally, I run Ad-Block Plus on both Firefox and Chrome, so I only see ads on sites I unblock anyway because I want to support them.
Based on how the code is written and my understanding of Ad-Block, I think non-premium players who run Ad-Block will be stuck looking at a blank splash screen for 35 seconds.
The Walled Village thing is silly though. Using Google login auth, like isotropic does, is one thing; fetching G+ information and real names is something else entirely.
[...]
If my real name is displayed to other users by Goko, that's another dealbreaker.
I logged in with google and it shows my real name on the leaderboard (now that I notice it, the mix of real and nicknames looks real silly). Initially I thought this was being driven by google since the hangout api requires that all users give the app access to their real name, but now that I can't find anyway to change the displayed name away from my real name I'm not so sure. EDIT: Beyond Awesome pointed out that the displayed name can be changed. It isn't possible to do in the dominion client but click your icon on the main goku splash page allows you to change your nickname.
Wow, they're still publishing comments in their served code? Super professional.
It's a beta. I can forgive them that part during a beta; who knows, maybe they want us to see it.
They are probably testing on the same version that we have access to and need to see the non minified code.
Well, what's the difference between "individual Dominion expansion" or "Complete Expansion"? I would expect that if you paid for anything, including a partial expansion (which is only partial compared to the physical sets; they might consider them "complete" for Goko), ads would be gone.
The store isn't selling any "individual expansion" right now, so I'm not sure what the difference is. Maybe they won't split the smaller expansions into two packs so they will only count as "individual", not "complete" expansions?
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Personally, I run Ad-Block Plus on both Firefox and Chrome, so I only see ads on sites I unblock anyway because I want to support them.
Based on how the code is written and my understanding of Ad-Block, I think non-premium players who run Ad-Block will be stuck looking at a blank splash screen for 35 seconds.
If it's anything like the ads on Hulu, then yes, this is what will happen.
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The more I think about this, the less I like it. I don't care if it's Goko or Google doing it; the point is that there will not be equal access to the cards--which is equivalent, in my opinion, to not having all cards available (for purchase) to all people. People who don't have or don't want a Google account--which, as noted above, can't be anonymous any longer--cannot get the Walled Village card. This breaks tournament play (even more).
And it's just plain silly.
And it saddens me to realize we're going to lose so many good players from the online community because of things like this, as well as the big issues.
Goko: Committed to pushing away Dominion's most committed players one at a time.
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Well, what's the difference between "individual Dominion expansion" or "Complete Expansion"? I would expect that if you paid for anything, including a partial expansion (which is only partial compared to the physical sets; they might consider them "complete" for Goko), ads would be gone.
It sounds like this is a bug, that Parade of Misfits should count but doesn't. Obv. it should count.
It is great to see so many diehard Walled Village fans. I didn't know there would be a privacy issue with this. The worst case is that you don't get Walled Village and well it's one of the promos that wasn't good enough to make it into an expansion.
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Will the walled village have google logo present when it is played, as it is in the store? I hope Rio Grande get a bit of the advertising revenue if it does. Maybe the envoy will have a soft drink can in his hand in a future version.
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Will the walled village have google logo present when it is played, as it is in the store? I hope Rio Grande get a bit of the advertising revenue if it does. Maybe the envoy will have a soft drink can in his hand in a future version.
Maybe it will be like a Michael Bay movie!
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The more I think about this, the less I like it. I don't care if it's Goko or Google doing it; the point is that there will not be equal access to the cards--which is equivalent, in my opinion, to not having all cards available (for purchase) to all people. People who don't have or don't want a Google account--which, as noted above, can't be anonymous any longer--cannot get the Walled Village card. This breaks tournament play (even more).
And it's just plain silly.
And it saddens me to realize we're going to lose so many good players from the online community because of things like this, as well as the big issues.
This quote. I had several friends who played on Isotropic fairly frequently. Now they're all like "fuck this game" just because of all the copyright bullshit and the shittiness of goko. Things like this only make them even more inclined to just give up on Dominion. I'm not happy about it and I've tried to convince them to stick with this game but I've had no success. I imagine this isn't just a problem that I've had to deal with. Eventually, I'm going to join them as well, but hopefully something will come in the future to change our minds.
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The worst case is that you don't get Walled Village and well it's one of the promos that wasn't good enough to make it into an expansion.
But it was good enough to be programmed and added before 70 cards that did make it into expansions.
The problem is limited access. Some people just plain won't be able to get the card. And that's wrong.
I'm so getting the feeling that by the time the Goko version actually comes out, we've all moved on to the next best thing.
And the people who will be playing are the ones who love cut-the-rope, angry birds and what not.
Mists of Pandaria hits next Tuesday.
Meanwhile, I can always go play Dominion with my own cards... or with someone else's if I want to play Dark Ages or Guilds.
Will the walled village have google logo present when it is played, as it is in the store? I hope Rio Grande get a bit of the advertising revenue if it does. Maybe the envoy will have a soft drink can in his hand in a future version.
"Google presents Walled Village"
"EBay presents Black Market"
"Governor, sponsored by Romney for America"
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Will the walled village have google logo present when it is played, as it is in the store? I hope Rio Grande get a bit of the advertising revenue if it does. Maybe the envoy will have a soft drink can in his hand in a future version.
No interest in further fine tuning, but
(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/23087358/Dominion/PromoEnvoy.png)
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I am almost willing to register some dummy accounts to provide further +1s.
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I am almost willing to register some dummy accounts to provide further +1s.
No dummy accounts bro, against terms of service.
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(http://i.snag.gy/op2pS.jpg)
Additional sponsorship opportunities
I think its time we give the meme thread a run for its money.
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I am almost willing to register some dummy accounts to provide further +1s.
No dummy accounts bro, against terms of service.
Don't worry, multiple accounts are endorsed by Donald X!
I'm opposed to being forced to log in with my google id.
Well you can make a new google account pretty quickly, and use that one. It will come in handy later when you want to be anonymous somewhere.
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But it was good enough to be programmed and added before 70 cards that did make it into expansions.
Obviously false.
The problem is limited access. Some people just plain won't be able to get the card. And that's wrong.
Everyone with internet access can have it. You say false things.
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But it was good enough to be programmed and added before 70 cards that did make it into expansions.
Obviously false.
In what way? Walled Village is available. The cards in Alchemy, Cornucopia, and Hinterlands, and 2/3 of the Dark Ages card, are unavailable.
The problem is limited access. Some people just plain won't be able to get the card. And that's wrong.
Everyone with internet access can have it. You say false things.
You're right, this is technically false. Let me rephrase more properly:
Not everyone with a Goko account can get the card without having/creating an account at a different site that has absolutely nothing to do with Goko or Dominion. This limits access.
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(http://www.invirtuo.cc/img/courtyard.png)
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(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/23087358/Dominion/PromoFestival.png)
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(http://i.imgur.com/V1rHi.png)(http://i.imgur.com/dOrKc.png)(http://i.imgur.com/OvCIG.png)
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(http://i.snag.gy/5gicH.jpg)
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(http://i.snag.gy/JsX7f.jpg)
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(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/23087358/Dominion/PromoIronworks.png)
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(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/23087358/Dominion/PromoScout.png)
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But it was good enough to be programmed and added before 70 cards that did make it into expansions.
Obviously false.
In what way? Walled Village is available. The cards in Alchemy, Cornucopia, and Hinterlands, and 2/3 of the Dark Ages card, are unavailable.
"Good enough." The relative quality of Walled Village was unlikely to be a criteria here. Easy enough, that's what it was.
Not everyone with a Goko account can get the card without having/creating an account at a different site that has absolutely nothing to do with Goko or Dominion. This limits access.
It sounds restrictive when you don't mention that it's Google. Only people with internet access can get digital Walled Village. That's also a restriction.
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lol.
Edit: And the card alterations aren't bad either!
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Or - I could complain it on the internet, hope that other people do the same, and maybe the company will change its behavior as a response to consumer feedback.
Given that they actually named Google there, I think a change is very unlikely. I think Google is who you have to convince at this point.
This quote is particularly hilarious.... quixotic Dominion fan takes the fight to the big end of town.... complains to Google about their sponsoring Walled Village.... Google takes time out from acquiring (and orphaning) independent software producers to apologise and reverse their sponsorship....
The Mouse That Roared for the 21st century.
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Last one for now
(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/23087358/Dominion/IslandPromo.jpg)
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I think we need a fork ;)
(http://i.imgur.com/Exscp.png)(http://i.imgur.com/oAQeb.png)(http://i.imgur.com/a4BCg.png)
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I still think it's super unimpressive that you HAVE to use google to obtain one of the cards. I signed up using my hotmail account because it's still my main account and I've had it since I was in high school.
The problem is suppose I never see this thread and sign up for goko with my hotmail account as I would having not seen this thread. I can NEVER get walled village, furthermore it's the last promo I buy so I would go through the hassle of beating all the adventures to get the promos (which btw is a huge hassle) and then I find out I needed to sign up with my google account to get walled village? Thats not OK, that means that by the time I get to it I need to decide to a) make a new account and create a google account, OR I need to be ok with not being able to have walled village.
This is 100% not ok, I was willing to get behind a LOT of other issues, but this might actually drive me away from goko, I know it'll drive a lot of other players away.
If it was like when you try to buy it, it says hey mind giving us a google account for this, then I'm still unimpressed but it's unlikely to make me quit over it. (ie as a one time thing when I buy it I have to confirm I have a google email)
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I have a Google account and like Google as a company, but this bothers me. I'm tired of companies treating me like:
1. My brain is a sponge for advertising
2. I don't have two quarters to rub together.
Stop making me run around with Gokoins, credits, registrations, free service w/ ads blah blah blah! HAVE THE BALLS TO CHARGE ME DOLLAR MONIES FOR YOUR GAME.
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Can I point out something? About practicality, rather than the fairness and whatnot and here and back again. Although maybe the practicality is related to the fairness of the sponsorship.
We could just, as a community, decide that we don't care about Walled Village. It is, in fact, a very low quality card, the most interesting thing it does is Ambassador openings, and that's just a degenerate shenanigan.
Don't buy it on goko. Don't play it with your friends. Don't put it in the randomizer for tournaments. Veto it on isotropic because you don't want to learn any more about the card.
You loose a sliver of a fraction of a percentage point of the collective quality cards available in Dominion, and no one has to feed the monster.
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Can I point out something? About practicality, rather than the fairness and whatnot and here and back again. Although maybe the practicality is related to the fairness of the sponsorship.
We could just, as a community, decide that we don't care about Walled Village. It is, in fact, a very low quality card, the most interesting thing it does is Ambassador openings, and that's just a degenerate shenanigan.
Don't buy it on goko. Don't play it with your friends. Don't put it in the randomizer for tournaments. Veto it on isotropic because you don't want to learn any more about the card.
You loose a sliver of a fraction of a percentage point of the collective quality cards available in Dominion, and no one has to feed the monster.
Don't you think Walled Village has to put up with enough already? It's already strictly better than Village, but it gets hated on by everybody because it's not really that great. Now you're going to scapegoat it and doom it to obscurity as a roundabout way to vent your Goko-rage? That's not right.
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The only point that I see to Walled Village is having Band of Misfits pretend to be one when, of the other two terminals you have in hand, one of them is a one-shot. Then you get to use your Band next turn.
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I'd join you guys, but Walled Village was just a big help for me in a Vault/Witch board.
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I'm a completionist I love dominion and want to own every card possible online, so having a restriction on the cards to me is unnacceptable even if it is walled village.
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The only point that I see to Walled Village is having Band of Misfits pretend to be one when, of the other two terminals you have in hand, one of them is a one-shot. Then you get to use your Band next turn.
Another important thing though... whatever else Walled Village may or may not be, it's still a Village. This means that if you own all cards except Walled Village, then your randomly chosen set of 10 cards is less likely to have any cards that give +2 actions than if you had Walled Village as well. Whether or not there's a Village on the board is one of the biggest things that changes the strategy of the board as a whole.
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The only point that I see to Walled Village is having Band of Misfits pretend to be one when, of the other two terminals you have in hand, one of them is a one-shot. Then you get to use your Band next turn.
Another important thing though... whatever else Walled Village may or may not be, it's still a Village. This means that if you own all cards except Walled Village, then your randomly chosen set of 10 cards is less likely to have any cards that give +2 actions than if you had Walled Village as well. Whether or not there's a Village on the board is one of the biggest things that changes the strategy of the board as a whole.
Then change the random kingdom algorithm to include more villages. I don't know why people insist on using the most basic possible kingdom selection method and then complain when it does nothing but choose cards at random.
Set all the other villages to a 1.1X chance of occurence, same thing.
The completionist logic is irrational, hopefully you can at least yourself realize it. You're putting an artificial value on 100% ownership.
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The completionist logic is irrational, hopefully you can at least yourself realize it. You're putting an artificial value on 100% ownership.
But I have to have them all....
Strategically, it makes sense to purchase prosperity and nothing else.
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The completionist logic is irrational, hopefully you can at least yourself realize it. You're putting an artificial value on 100% ownership.
But I have to have them all....
Look what playing Pokemon as kids has done to us.
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The completionist logic is irrational, hopefully you can at least yourself realize it. You're putting an artificial value on 100% ownership.
Just because completionism is irrational doesn't mean it's not real. There are people, believe it or not, that derive satisfaction from having 100% of something. More importantly, having 99% of something is like having a hangnail. You could ignore it, but it's going to bug you endlessly. Until my brain stops sending me chemicals that encourage me to be a completionist, I'm going to be one to some extent.
One of the great things about Dominion is that the collector is rewarded, instead of punished, for his completionism. There's never been a Dominion product that I bought just to have it. I enjoy playing with each of the cards. They're all good products that are worth having in their own right.
So how about this, popsofctown. I'll stop being a completionist if you stop eating your favorite food. I mean, you're just putting an artificial value on the food. Your brain may be sending you signals that it's is delicious, but you can overcome that. I believe in you!
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Yo guys.
On the whole, Google is pretty cool.
I promise.
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I'm not trying to devalue people's preferences, I'm just making sure people realize that their preference can perhaps be changed. Frequently I find myself playing completionistly in video games that are poorly designed on the difficult goals, but well designed on the easy stuff. I have to discipline myself to stop being completionist so i can enjoy the easy parts of the game without flogging myself.
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Yo guys.
On the whole, Google is pretty cool.
I promise.
Well, they're making us use their stuff in order to play Dominion (well, Walled Village). That's not cool at all.
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Yo guys.
On the whole, Google is pretty cool.
I promise.
Especially when they go around driving in their funny cars and picking up private data from wireless networks.
That was super!
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Yo guys.
On the whole, Google is pretty cool.
I promise.
Especially when they go around driving in their funny cars and picking up private data from wireless networks.
That was super!
If you shout that unencrypted into the world, it's not private.
Seriously, complain about anything, but this WLAN thing was ridiculous.
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Yo guys.
On the whole, Google is pretty cool.
I promise.
Especially when they go around driving in their funny cars and picking up private data from wireless networks.
That was super!
If you shout that unencrypted into the world, it's not private.
Seriously, complain about anything, but this WLAN thing was ridiculous.
Maybe it wasn't illegal, but it was wrong.
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For me - its not about what google knows - but what other people who know me through Google know.
I don't want Goko posting stuff on my g+ profile: Level 238123 Dominion Nerd. I don't want to wrestle through my g+ privacy settings to make sure that nobody I'm g+ friends with can accidentally see how much of my life I waste playing dominion online. I don't want my real name used within Goko.
I don't want to have a dominion hangout with someone, and then have that posted: "Captain Frisk hung out with 3 other people playing dominion!"
Even if i have my settings set up - I don't want someone else posting that they hung out with me on their feed.
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I don't want Goko posting stuff on my g+ profile: Level 238123 Dominion Nerd. I don't want to wrestle through my g+ privacy settings to make sure that nobody I'm g+ friends with can accidentally see how much of my life I waste playing dominion online.
The G+ API doesn't allow for directly posting to user's walls - I think they get sent to a queue where you can review them and publish them if you want.
I don't want to have a dominion hangout with someone, and then have that posted: "Captain Frisk hung out with 3 other people playing dominion!"
Even if i have my settings set up - I don't want someone else posting that they hung out with me on their feed.
I'm not sure to control the hangout posts - my girlfriend and I switched back to using the talk video gadget because we couldn't figure out how to stop the posts.
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The completionist logic is irrational, hopefully you can at least yourself realize it. You're putting an artificial value on 100% ownership.
Well sure... but isn't that what collecting things is all about? Isn't that why so many games now have achievements to unlock? It's why people spend hours playing a game they've already beaten... because they want 100%. Yes it's "irrational." It's a desire/emotion thing, not a logical thing. People who really like Dominion, people who have spent hours online discussing Dominion on a strategy forum, people who have played thousands of games on Isotropic; many of these people are the type that will want to get every single possible thing that they can get out of Dominion. And some of these people will go through the entire Goko game; buying and collecting every single set and promo card, and then discover that there is no way they can get Walled Village, because their account happens to not be through Google. Some of these people will start all over from scratch just to get that 100%; others will be pissed off and quick Goko.
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The completionist logic is irrational, hopefully you can at least yourself realize it. You're putting an artificial value on 100% ownership.
Well sure... but isn't that what collecting things is all about? Isn't that why so many games now have achievements to unlock? It's why people spend hours playing a game they've already beaten... because they want 100%. Yes it's "irrational." It's a desire/emotion thing, not a logical thing. People who really like Dominion, people who have spent hours online discussing Dominion on a strategy forum, people who have played thousands of games on Isotropic; many of these people are the type that will want to get every single possible thing that they can get out of Dominion. And some of these people will go through the entire Goko game; buying and collecting every single set and promo card, and then discover that there is no way they can get Walled Village, because their account happens to not be through Google. Some of these people will start all over from scratch just to get that 100%; others will be pissed off and quick Goko.
This. Anyone who wants everything and doesn't sign up with their Google account will quickly quit Goko when they realize they needed to use their google account to get walled village. You waste all the time going through ALL of the adventures MULTIPLE TIMES and then at the end of the day you can't get walled village because of something you didn't know when you signed up.
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I'm going to hazard a guess that you can link your G+ account later or something.
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This. Anyone who wants everything and doesn't sign up with their Google account will quickly quit Goko when they realize they needed to use their google account to get walled village. You waste all the time going through ALL of the adventures MULTIPLE TIMES and then at the end of the day you can't get walled village because of something you didn't know when you signed up.
They won't quit - because they've already paid.
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This. Anyone who wants everything and doesn't sign up with their Google account will quickly quit Goko when they realize they needed to use their google account to get walled village. You waste all the time going through ALL of the adventures MULTIPLE TIMES and then at the end of the day you can't get walled village because of something you didn't know when you signed up.
They won't quit - because they've already paid.
Ugh I forgot about that because the beta is free and Iso was free. This is one MILLION times worse
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I'm going to hazard a guess that you can link your G+ account later or something.
At the moment, you can't do that. But, hopefully, they're looking into it.
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Then change the random kingdom algorithm to include more villages. I don't know why people insist on using the most basic possible kingdom selection method and then complain when it does nothing but choose cards at random.
Set all the other villages to a 1.1X chance of occurence, same thing.
I agree with this (I think non-uniform random kingdom selections can be interesting), but there are a significant number of people who want to play only with uniform random kingdoms. Besides, the most non-uniformity we ever got on isotropic was auto-match bias, and right now Goko has even less than that--and in pro mode will likely only ever have uniform random.
My point: what turns up in uniform random matters.
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My point: what turns up in uniform random matters.
I have tried to balance the expansions such that pure random works reasonably well with any mix of expansions a person might have. The promos are not factored into this.
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(http://i.imgur.com/JKcZP.jpg)
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(http://i.imgur.com/G8231.jpg)
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Thin Mint. Embassy Suites. Dexter's Laboratory. Library of Congress. DeVry University. The Watchtower. Bank of America.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_oSmneHSBf4Y/S-LqayyqvCI/AAAAAAAAAFA/RXCA_WS0H-M/s1600/Beating_a_dead_horse.jpg)
Am I doing it right?
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My point: what turns up in uniform random matters.
I have tried to balance the expansions such that pure random works reasonably well with any mix of expansions a person might have. The promos are not factored into this.
Nor are the half-sets on Goko. In Prosperity, all but one of the kingdom treasures and two of three attacks are in one set; all of the megaturn cards and VP cards are in the other set. Both villages (City and WV) are in the same set. If you really want to have the best chance of winning, just get the "Bigger and Better" half set. Intrigue, meanwhile, is set up specifically for Scout! One set has Scout and all the dual-type cards. The other set has most of the attacks.
Pure random will work with the sets, therefore, but not with Goko.
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My point: what turns up in uniform random matters.
I have tried to balance the expansions such that pure random works reasonably well with any mix of expansions a person might have. The promos are not factored into this.
Nor are the half-sets on Goko. In Prosperity, all but one of the kingdom treasures and two of three attacks are in one set; all of the megaturn cards and VP cards are in the other set. Both villages (City and WV) are in the same set. If you really want to have the best chance of winning, just get the "Bigger and Better" half set. Intrigue, meanwhile, is set up specifically for Scout! One set has Scout and all the dual-type cards. The other set has most of the attacks.
Pure random will work with the sets, therefore, but not with Goko.
If I remember correctly, Donald X himself did the partitioning of the sets.
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Personally, I don't like this g+ thing, and I'll completely ignore Walled village. It's simply the most uninteresting dominion card (I know, it's a village, but in this case I prefer a second vanilla village card).
I'll not buy envoy and governor too, I don't like their power in BM, it creates boring games...
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Thin Mint. Embassy Suites. Dexter's Laboratory. Library of Congress. DeVry University. The Watchtower. Bank of America.
Am I doing it right?
No, as I understand this, you have to post a modified pic of the cards, and not a completely unrelated one...
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(http://www.invirtuo.cc/img/courtyard.png)
Don't pass up on this Big Money opportunity!
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If you really want to have the best chance of winning, just get the... set up specifically for Scout! [It] has Scout and all the dual-type cards. The other set has most of the attacks.
FTFY
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Thin Mint. Embassy Suites. Dexter's Laboratory. Library of Congress. DeVry University. The Watchtower. Bank of America.
Am I doing it right?
No, as I understand this, you have to post a modified pic of the cards, and not a completely unrelated one...
I think you're missing the bottomless font of sarcasm exuding from my post.
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Thin Mint. Embassy Suites. Dexter's Laboratory. Library of Congress. DeVry University. The Watchtower. Bank of America.
Am I doing it right?
No, as I understand this, you have to post a modified pic of the cards, and not a completely unrelated one...
I think you're missing the bottomless font of sarcasm exuding from my post.
So do I take it that you aren't offended by goko continuing the trends that are being seen in other video games - like exclusive pre-order bonuses? Soul Caliber having exclusive additional fighters depending on which console you bought it for? Capcom selling additional DLC for content that is already on the disk?
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Thin Mint. Embassy Suites. Dexter's Laboratory. Library of Congress. DeVry University. The Watchtower. Bank of America.
Am I doing it right?
No, as I understand this, you have to post a modified pic of the cards, and not a completely unrelated one...
I think you're missing the bottomless font of sarcasm exuding from my post.
So do I take it that you aren't offended by goko continuing the trends that are being seen in other video games - like exclusive pre-order bonuses? Soul Caliber having exclusive additional fighters depending on which console you bought it for? Capcom selling additional DLC for content that is already on the disk?
Free-mium games really, really piss me off. On the other hand, I have zero problem with non-essential content being used to promote a particular platform. Walled Village is very, very, very, very, very non-essential. If I had to go through Google to use Mountebank, then I would be pissy.
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Free-mium games really, really piss me off. On the other hand, I have zero problem with non-essential content being used to promote a particular platform. Walled Village is very, very, very, very, very non-essential. If I had to go through Google to use Mountebank, then I would be pissy.
No dominion card is essential!
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Free-mium games really, really piss me off. On the other hand, I have zero problem with non-essential content being used to promote a particular platform. Walled Village is very, very, very, very, very non-essential. If I had to go through Google to use Mountebank, then I would be pissy.
No dominion card is essential!
Province.
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I think you're missing the bottomless font of sarcasm exuding from my post.
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Province pile is run out again? Let's see, we each have 3 points, but you took 1 turn and I took 0 turns, so looks like I win on turns.
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Thin Mint. Embassy Suites. Dexter's Laboratory. Library of Congress. DeVry University. The Watchtower. Bank of America.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_oSmneHSBf4Y/S-LqayyqvCI/AAAAAAAAAFA/RXCA_WS0H-M/s1600/Beating_a_dead_horse.jpg)
Am I doing it right?
(http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/2904/1283941194088.jpg)
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Walled Village is very, very, very, very, very non-essential. If I had to go through Google to use Mountebank, then I would be pissy.
Yeah, um, I've gotta go with Frisk on this one. Can you enumerate which cards are essential and which are not? Envoy, for instance, is often used as a classic BM example, though it is a promo. Black Market shows up in puzzles all the time. Is Counting House non-essential because it usually sucks? Or (dare I say it) Scout? Does Spy get a pass because it's in the base set, or does it get tossed as non-essential because it sucks for most things? Duchess? Pearl Diver?
You see where I'm going with this.
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Ohh, i ignored this thread as it seemed perfectly innocent until the mem thread directed me here.
What awesomeness!
I notice that when I google Walled Village it takes me to the promo card (second link being Walled villages of Hong Kong)
But when I Bing search I get no dominion at all, just Walled villages of Hong Kong!
And when I yahoo searched.......oh wait, nobody bothers to use Yahoo Search anymore.
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Ohh, i ignored this thread as it seemed perfectly innocent until the mem thread directed me here.
What awesomeness!
I notice that when I google Walled Village it takes me to the promo card (second link being Walled villages of Hong Kong)
But when I Bing search I get no dominion at all, just Walled villages of Hong Kong!
And when I yahoo searched.......oh wait, nobody bothers to use Yahoo Search anymore.
Try bingiton.com
Ed
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Ohh, i ignored this thread as it seemed perfectly innocent until the mem thread directed me here.
What awesomeness!
I notice that when I google Walled Village it takes me to the promo card (second link being Walled villages of Hong Kong)
But when I Bing search I get no dominion at all, just Walled villages of Hong Kong!
And when I yahoo searched.......oh wait, nobody bothers to use Yahoo Search anymore.
Try bingiton.com
Ed
Aww, got all excited then that this was going to be a link to a cheerleader movie, slightly dissapointed now!
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Ohh, i ignored this thread as it seemed perfectly innocent until the mem thread directed me here.
What awesomeness!
I notice that when I google Walled Village it takes me to the promo card (second link being Walled villages of Hong Kong)
But when I Bing search I get no dominion at all, just Walled villages of Hong Kong!
And when I yahoo searched.......oh wait, nobody bothers to use Yahoo Search anymore.
Try bingiton.com
Ed
It amuses me that that site has a Google +1 option.
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I have tried to balance the expansions such that pure random works reasonably well with any mix of expansions a person might have. The promos are not factored into this.
Nor are the half-sets on Goko.
Are you just saying I did a poor job of it? I worked with what I had, but I certainly knew some people might have only one half of a particular set and that I wanted the game to work well for those people.
In Prosperity, all but one of the kingdom treasures and two of three attacks are in one set; all of the megaturn cards and VP cards are in the other set. Both villages (City and WV) are in the same set. If you really want to have the best chance of winning, just get the "Bigger and Better" half set. Intrigue, meanwhile, is set up specifically for Scout! One set has Scout and all the dual-type cards. The other set has most of the attacks.
Intrigue evenly divides the interactive cards - why single out attacks? Treasure Trove has a pile of treasures, which you can play multiples of without villages. Having the best chance of winning via Bigger and Better would be a specific comment on how well you personally play with those cards vs. other people or the bots. I can't account for you personally and don't even try.
Pure random will work with the sets, therefore, but not with Goko.
You say "therefore" as if you've demonstrated something. You've got nothing, and pure random works fine on Goko.
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Can you enumerate which cards are essential and which are not? Envoy, for instance, is often used as a classic BM example, though it is a promo.
You play 100 games on isotropic with random cards. As it happens, Envoy doesn't show up in any of them. Huh were those 100 games broken? Were you not really playing Dominion?
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And when I yahoo searched.......oh wait, nobody bothers to use Yahoo Search anymore.
Altavista was so much better than Yahoo.
For some reason I keep expecting someone to post the actual Dominion sell-out cards. Man, maybe you guys don't know about them?
(http://cf.geekdo-images.com/images/pic969691_md.jpg)
I know what you're thinking. That's a pretty sweet Woodcutter.
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I know what you're thinking. That's a pretty sweet Woodcutter.
Only if Woodcutter is middle right...although all of them make me feel a little like a dirty pervert!
Ask Jeeves was the best, especially when you asked Jeeves "Why is Jeeves so crap?"
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Why would this be offensive? Retheme your game as much as you want!
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And when I yahoo searched.......oh wait, nobody bothers to use Yahoo Search anymore.
Altavista was so much better than Yahoo.
For some reason I keep expecting someone to post the actual Dominion sell-out cards. Man, maybe you guys don't know about them?
ANIME NONSENSE
I know what you're thinking. That's a pretty sweet Woodcutter.
AHH MY EYES
WHY, DONALD X, WHY?
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Darn, just realised I missed the chance to use the word Manga...
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Can you enumerate which cards are essential and which are not? Envoy, for instance, is often used as a classic BM example, though it is a promo.
You play 100 games on isotropic with random cards. As it happens, Envoy doesn't show up in any of them. Huh were those 100 games broken? Were you not really playing Dominion?
You play 100 games on isotropic with me with me stating that we have random cards. Each has the KC-Goons-Masq pin. Huh were those 100 games broken?
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And when I yahoo searched.......oh wait, nobody bothers to use Yahoo Search anymore.
Altavista was so much better than Yahoo.
For some reason I keep expecting someone to post the actual Dominion sell-out cards. Man, maybe you guys don't know about them?
I know what you're thinking. That's a pretty sweet Woodcutter.
waitwaitwaitwaitwait
You mean to tell me somebody made a Touhouminion?
I love you and respect your intellectual property and all that but I need those cards.
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Only if Woodcutter is middle right...although all of them make me feel a little like a dirty pervert!
You have successfully identified Woodcutter.
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You play 100 games on isotropic with me with me stating that we have random cards. Each has the KC-Goons-Masq pin. Huh were those 100 games broken?
You're acting like this question is relevant, but it isn't. Unless you just mean, you don't like that card combo, which would be a new topic.
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And when I yahoo searched.......oh wait, nobody bothers to use Yahoo Search anymore.
Altavista was so much better than Yahoo.
For some reason I keep expecting someone to post the actual Dominion sell-out cards. Man, maybe you guys don't know about them?
I know what you're thinking. That's a pretty sweet Woodcutter.
waitwaitwaitwaitwait
You mean to tell me somebody made a Touhouminion?
I love you and respect your intellectual property and all that but I need those cards.
It's actually official (I think). Some japanese company rethemed it (I believe with DXV / RGG permission) to better fit their local gamer sensibilities.
The reason why I have no issue with it - and am not considering DXV a sellout for this is that it's not like he's released exclusive content - just customizing it for a local market.
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waitwaitwaitwaitwait
You mean to tell me somebody made a Touhouminion?
I love you and respect your intellectual property and all that but I need those cards.
Dude, that's an official licensed retheme, I get my cut and everything. There's more than one; there are a few Toho Shisoroku ones, a few Nitroplus ones, and something called Dominion Characters (all from the Japanese publisher). BGG only lists two Toho ones right now, but I think three are out. They are all just actual Dominion cards in different groupings, except we let them drop the potion clause from Apprentice (which I think is a promo).
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You play 100 games on isotropic with me with me stating that we have random cards. Each has the KC-Goons-Masq pin. Huh were those 100 games broken?
You're acting like this question is relevant, but it isn't. Unless you just mean, you don't like that card combo, which would be a new topic.
I actually don't know what I mean exactly, I just don't think it's correct that just because an event may happen it's the same as if you set the probability of the event happening to 1.
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waitwaitwaitwaitwait
You mean to tell me somebody made a Touhouminion?
I love you and respect your intellectual property and all that but I need those cards.
Dude, that's an official licensed retheme, I get my cut and everything. There's more than one; there are a few Toho Shisoroku ones, a few Nitroplus ones, and something called Dominion Characters (all from the Japanese publisher). BGG only lists two Toho ones right now, but I think three are out. They are all just actual Dominion cards in different groupings, except we let them drop the potion clause from Apprentice (which I think is a promo).
BLASPHEMY
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I actually don't know what I mean exactly, I just don't think it's correct that just because an event may happen it's the same as if you set the probability of the event happening to 1.
I agree. But the issue is, how much does Dominion lose by losing Envoy.
Let's say you decide to have a marathon session involving every card, after Guilds comes out. 200 cards, that will take 20 games, let's say for simplicity that Young Witch and Black Market are in the last game. And Envoy is in the last game. So you play 19 games without Envoy. 19 out of the 20 automatically don't have Envoy, whatever order you do them in, again ignoring Black Market what is this Black Market nonsense.
Are those 19 games not Dominion etc. See this way I dodge the probability issue and don't have to figure out the odds of 100 games without Envoy. I bet the chance of some card not showing up in 100 games is high but whatever.
Maybe this is easier from my perspective. I have played with tons of Dominion cards that did not get published. Dominion didn't need those cards to such an extreme that it didn't get them. And Walled Village and Envoy are two of those cards, they just came out anyway.
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we let them drop the potion clause from Apprentice
BLASPHEMY
It is of course functionally the same unless they print Toho cards with potion costs, and of course their plan was that they never would.
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Thread derailing here, but is anyone else now looking at the foreign versions of Dominion cards and trying to work out which cards they are?
No?
Just me then, ahh well!
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Thread derailing here, but is anyone else now looking at the foreign versions of Dominion cards and trying to work out which cards they are?
No?
Just me then, ahh well!
When you're ready to see the answers for Toho #1, here they are: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/652972/english-paste-ups-almost-ready-can-i-get-some-pr
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Thread derailing here, but is anyone else now looking at the foreign versions of Dominion cards and trying to work out which cards they are?
No?
Just me then, ahh well!
I thought we were creating NSFW fan variants? Do you think those Scarlett Jonahhhanannassaon leaked picks are more appropriate for Duchess or Woodcutter?
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Thread derailing here, but is anyone else now looking at the foreign versions of Dominion cards and trying to work out which cards they are?
No?
Just me then, ahh well!
When you're ready to see the answers for Toho #1, here they are: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/652972/english-paste-ups-almost-ready-can-i-get-some-pr
Yeah, was just an excuse to perve really.....
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Thread derailing here, but is anyone else now looking at the foreign versions of Dominion cards and trying to work out which cards they are?
No?
Just me then, ahh well!
I thought we were creating NSFW fan variants? Do you think those Scarlett Jonahhhanannassaon leaked picks are more appropriate for Duchess or Woodcutter?
Clearly the Kate Middleton pictures for Dutchess...
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Thread derailing here, but is anyone else now looking at the foreign versions of Dominion cards and trying to work out which cards they are?
No?
Just me then, ahh well!
I thought we were creating NSFW fan variants? Do you think those Scarlett Jonahhhanannassaon leaked picks are more appropriate for Duchess or Woodcutter?
Clearly the Kate Middleton pictures for Dutchess...
Not princess?
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I actually don't know what I mean exactly, I just don't think it's correct that just because an event may happen it's the same as if you set the probability of the event happening to 1.
Are those 19 games not Dominion etc. See this way I dodge the probability issue and don't have to figure out the odds of 100 games without Envoy. I bet the chance of some card not showing up in 100 games is high but whatever.
For one card it was 0.5%, so it's lower than 10% for all of them...
But don't take me too serious in this thread (except on math questions), I'm just here too post funny pictures...
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Maybe this is easier from my perspective. I have played with tons of Dominion cards that did not get published. Dominion didn't need those cards to such an extreme that it didn't get them. And Walled Village and Envoy are two of those cards, they just came out anyway.
Keep in mind that there are many people in this thread who would buy a box of outtakes if it were released, even though it'd be worse than real expansions. :P
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Maybe this is easier from my perspective. I have played with tons of Dominion cards that did not get published.
That seems likely.
We've played with the published Dominion cards and that's it. That set of cards is "Dominion", subsets of it are "some of Dominion but not all of it". So yeah, playing without Walled Village in the random mix seems like I'm not playing Dominion, but some variant that's missing a card for whatever reason.
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Maybe this is easier from my perspective. I have played with tons of Dominion cards that did not get published.
That seems likely.
We've played with the published Dominion cards and that's it. That set of cards is "Dominion", subsets of it are "some of Dominion but not all of it". So yeah, playing without Walled Village in the random mix seems like I'm not playing Dominion, but some variant that's missing a card for whatever reason.
Really? I've never felt that. Walled Village is terrible. The whole point of its existence is that it doesn't combo. And it doesn't really feel like an integral part of Dominion.
-
Thread derailing here, but is anyone else now looking at the foreign versions of Dominion cards and trying to work out which cards they are?
No?
Just me then, ahh well!
I thought we were creating NSFW fan variants? Do you think those Scarlett Jonahhhanannassaon leaked picks are more appropriate for Duchess or Woodcutter?
Clearly the Kate Middleton pictures for Dutchess...
Not princess?
Nope, she isnt a princess.
Duchess of Cambridge and Countess of somewhere.
And then eventually Queen Consort.
I suppose the closest you get would be the unused title HEr Royal Highness Princess William, but thats not used
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Thread derailing here, but is anyone else now looking at the foreign versions of Dominion cards and trying to work out which cards they are?
No?
Just me then, ahh well!
I thought we were creating NSFW fan variants? Do you think those Scarlett Jonahhhanannassaon leaked picks are more appropriate for Duchess or Woodcutter?
Clearly the Kate Middleton pictures for Dutchess...
Not princess?
Nope, she isnt a princess.
Duchess of Cambridge and Countess of somewhere.
And then eventually Queen Consort.
I suppose the closest you get would be the unused title HEr Royal Highness Princess William, but thats not used
British royalty is so odd.
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Thread derailing here, but is anyone else now looking at the foreign versions of Dominion cards and trying to work out which cards they are?
No?
Just me then, ahh well!
I thought we were creating NSFW fan variants? Do you think those Scarlett Jonahhhanannassaon leaked picks are more appropriate for Duchess or Woodcutter?
Clearly the Kate Middleton pictures for Dutchess...
Not princess?
Nope, she isnt a princess.
Duchess of Cambridge and Countess of somewhere.
And then eventually Queen Consort.
I suppose the closest you get would be the unused title HEr Royal Highness Princess William, but thats not used
British royalty is so odd.
If they were not so odd they wouldnt be so special now would they!
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...Are those 19 games not Dominion etc. See this way I dodge the probability issue and don't have to figure out the odds of 100 games without Envoy. I bet the chance of some card not showing up in 100 games is high but whatever.
Maybe this is easier from my perspective. I have played with tons of Dominion cards that did not get published. Dominion didn't need those cards to such an extreme that it didn't get them. And Walled Village and Envoy are two of those cards, they just came out anyway.
For reference, out of 200 cards the chance of a specific card not appearing (i.e. you choose a card and see if it appears) in 100 games is 0.95^100 (excluding horrid stuff like Black Market, Bane etc.). This comes from, one game of 10 cards has a 5% chance of including your given card. So 95% of the card not appearing in a given game. Every game is independent so we multiply that together 100 times and get 0.95^100~=0.00592~=1/170
The chance of there existing any card having not appeared after 100 games is a little trickier. I almost feel ashamed stating this as I'm pretty sure I'm incorrectly assuming independence, but taking (1-0.95^100)^200 gives the chance of every specific card appearing, which is about 30.5%, so a 69.5% chance that at least one card doesn't.
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Seriously though, Walled Village is a bit shit. I bet whoever agreed it at google doesn't play or they would never have agreed to that!
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I actually don't know what I mean exactly, I just don't think it's correct that just because an event may happen it's the same as if you set the probability of the event happening to 1.
Are those 19 games not Dominion etc. See this way I dodge the probability issue and don't have to figure out the odds of 100 games without Envoy. I bet the chance of some card not showing up in 100 games is high but whatever.
For one card it was 0.5%, so it's lower than 10% for all of them...
But don't take me too serious in this thread (except on math questions), I'm just here too post funny pictures...
Arggh, 200*0.5=1 and not 0.1. Maybe just don't take me serious at all...
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Maybe this is easier from my perspective. I have played with tons of Dominion cards that did not get published.
That seems likely.
We've played with the published Dominion cards and that's it. That set of cards is "Dominion", subsets of it are "some of Dominion but not all of it". So yeah, playing without Walled Village in the random mix seems like I'm not playing Dominion, but some variant that's missing a card for whatever reason.
Really? I've never felt that. Walled Village is terrible. The whole point of its existence is that it doesn't combo. And it doesn't really feel like an integral part of Dominion.
It's not that boring. It has mildly interesting interactions with Torturer and Ambassador. I agree it's the least interesting promo.
Envoy though I'd hate to go without, as I like that card much more than its reputation: Envoy+BM is not that great, and Envoy makes fantastic draw in a slim deck (if you have no bad cards, it's basically just +4 cards for $4, which is fantastic). It's also a bit fun to make sure that, when playing an Envoy-based draw engine, you play the Envoys as soon as you can so that your opponent has a hard time deciding what you should discard. And Envoy+Cellar is sort of a combo (draw tons of bad cards, discard them for good cards using Cellar--although getting the Cellar in hand can be problematic).
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If you really want to play with Walled Village, just use a regular village, and make people spend 4 to buy it, and then sometimes put it back on top of your deck if you feel like it. I think I fell asleep once in game looking at the card. Frisk is right, whoever chose the card clearly doesn't play this game. I don't really mind if I never see it, personally.
I just want to make sure though, let's say I already signed up for Goko but didn't do it through G+, there is SOME way of me still being able to get Walled Village, right? It would be dumb for everyone for there not to be, because there's nothing advertising it when you sign up, saying hey, if you want this card do this. Advertising doesn't work through arbitrarily rewarding people who already use your product, so I'm assuming there's something else?
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I just want to make sure though, let's say I already signed up for Goko but didn't do it through G+, there is SOME way of me still being able to get Walled Village, right? It would be dumb for everyone for there not to be, because there's nothing advertising it when you sign up, saying hey, if you want this card do this. Advertising doesn't work through arbitrarily rewarding people who already use your product, so I'm assuming there's something else?
I think you should be more careful in your assumptions -- I don't think there'd be such an uproar if there was.
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To add to this discussion, I will say this. Walled Village sucks as far as Villages. Essentially, it's Village for $4 instead of $3. Rarely is the top-decking ability all that good. However, it is a Village. And, if it were the only Village on the board, I would potentially buy it (assuming other engine components were on the board as well). So, I can see why it was an outtake card, but Villages aren't all that bad is what I'm saying.
And, as far as Envoy goes. It seems to be a rather strong card, especially for BM games. I can see why it was initially cut out for being too similiar to Smithy, but I could also see a later expansion having got it instead. I mean, Envoy really is a good card.
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Man, Walled Village allows you to build a unique style of deck, and I like it for that reason. Buy a single Walled Village and no other cantrips, and you can basically add a few extra power terminals to a Big Money-style deck. So it makes Big Money more interesting, and you can also use it as an expensive vanilla village in an engine. What's not to like?
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One of the payment model of goko is...
(http://i36.servimg.com/u/f36/14/46/77/96/domini10.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=58&u=14467796)
I know I'm too late but I couldn't resist
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Sorry to drag this thing up , but I got a bit lost between all those funny bits in this thread.
Just for clarification: I have already sign up on Goko in a non-Google way, and I've already played some adventures, gathered some points and climbed a bit in the pro rating.
Is there any way I can again sign up with Google and still keep my account accomplishments? I suppose not, am I right?
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No. They have said that they plan to add in a way to associate accounts in the future, but have not done it yet. You can post on their getsatisfaction site that it's something you want, maybe it'll make it more likely to come earlier in their priorities.
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On another note, there aren't even enough adventures yet to get all three promos. So, if you get Envoy and Governor, you still have a ways before getting Walled Village.
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Has this been changed? I'm not locked in with Google, but in the store the Google+ icon on WV is gone, and think I actually could buy it (if I had enough of those shield thingies)...
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Has this been changed? I'm not locked in with Google, but in the store the Google+ icon on WV is gone, and think I actually could buy it (if I had enough of those shield thingies)...
THERE WILL NEVER BE ENOUGH SHIELD THINGIES
TOOO
MANYYY
ADVENTUUUUURRRRRRREEEEESSSSSSS
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I have 110 shields, but I can't decide between Envoy and Governor, so currently I have neither.
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I just want to make sure though, let's say I already signed up for Goko but didn't do it through G+, there is SOME way of me still being able to get Walled Village, right? It would be dumb for everyone for there not to be, because there's nothing advertising it when you sign up, saying hey, if you want this card do this. Advertising doesn't work through arbitrarily rewarding people who already use your product, so I'm assuming there's something else?
I think you should be more careful in your assumptions -- I don't think there'd be such an uproar if there was.
Actually, if I recall correctly, the way Goko works, the player who creates the game is the only one who has to own the cards selected. So, for instance, I can play with Prosperity cards even if I don't buy the Prosperity expansion, as long as I join a game created by someone who did buy the Prosperity expansion and the creator selected some Prosperity cards (manually or randomly).
Presumably Walled Village will work the same way. (Maybe Donald X can confirm.)
So, fans of Walled Village who don't use Google+ to sign in to Goko -- rejoice! All is not lost!
(Disclaimer: I'm a random Google employee who happens to play Dominion, but I have nothing to do with this matter.)
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I just want to make sure though, let's say I already signed up for Goko but didn't do it through G+, there is SOME way of me still being able to get Walled Village, right? It would be dumb for everyone for there not to be, because there's nothing advertising it when you sign up, saying hey, if you want this card do this. Advertising doesn't work through arbitrarily rewarding people who already use your product, so I'm assuming there's something else?
I think you should be more careful in your assumptions -- I don't think there'd be such an uproar if there was.
Actually, if I recall correctly, the way Goko works, the player who creates the game is the only one who has to own the cards selected. So, for instance, I can play with Prosperity cards even if I don't buy the Prosperity expansion, as long as I join a game created by someone who did buy the Prosperity expansion and the creator selected some Prosperity cards (manually or randomly).
Presumably Walled Village will work the same way. (Maybe Donald X can confirm.)
So, fans of Walled Village who don't use Google+ to sign in to Goko -- rejoice! All is not lost!
(Disclaimer: I'm a random Google employee who happens to play Dominion, but I have nothing to do with this matter.)
But by this logic, if I want to play with Walled Village and don't sign in with Google+, then I might as well not buy any cards at all, since I'm stuck joining other people's games.
(To pre-emptively answer why I care about Walled Village: having it available increases the probability of having a village in the kingdom when playing uniformly random kingdoms.)
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Actually, if I recall correctly, the way Goko works, the player who creates the game is the only one who has to own the cards selected. So, for instance, I can play with Prosperity cards even if I don't buy the Prosperity expansion, as long as I join a game created by someone who did buy the Prosperity expansion and the creator selected some Prosperity cards (manually or randomly).
Presumably Walled Village will work the same way. (Maybe Donald X can confirm.)
So, fans of Walled Village who don't use Google+ to sign in to Goko -- rejoice! All is not lost!
(Disclaimer: I'm a random Google employee who happens to play Dominion, but I have nothing to do with this matter.)
But by this logic, if I want to play with Walled Village and don't sign in with Google+, then I might as well not buy any cards at all, since I'm stuck joining other people's games.
(To pre-emptively answer why I care about Walled Village: having it available increases the probability of having a village in the kingdom when playing uniformly random kingdoms.)
You're completely entitled to your opinions and preferences, but I have to admit that I don't see the logic in your stance on Walled Village. Here's my two cents:
1. Donald X, in his infinite wisdom and benevolence, has given us seven Dominion sets and an eighth on the way, and he thought those sets were optimal and balanced as they were, without the promo cards. I, for one, give Donald credit for having included the correct ratio of action splitters.
2. If you personally prefer to have one or more Villages available in most of your games, you can always create games with a Village in them, or reject games that don't have a Village in them.
3. Walled Village is pretty much worse than all the other villages in the real game. So having it is not much better than having none at all.
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The problem is that you are assigning godlike qualities to Donald here. The truth of the matter is that there are slightly too few action splitters, I think most people would agree with that
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Actually, if I recall correctly, the way Goko works, the player who creates the game is the only one who has to own the cards selected. So, for instance, I can play with Prosperity cards even if I don't buy the Prosperity expansion, as long as I join a game created by someone who did buy the Prosperity expansion and the creator selected some Prosperity cards (manually or randomly).
Presumably Walled Village will work the same way. (Maybe Donald X can confirm.)
So, fans of Walled Village who don't use Google+ to sign in to Goko -- rejoice! All is not lost!
(Disclaimer: I'm a random Google employee who happens to play Dominion, but I have nothing to do with this matter.)
But by this logic, if I want to play with Walled Village and don't sign in with Google+, then I might as well not buy any cards at all, since I'm stuck joining other people's games.
(To pre-emptively answer why I care about Walled Village: having it available increases the probability of having a village in the kingdom when playing uniformly random kingdoms.)
You're completely entitled to your opinions and preferences, but I have to admit that I don't see the logic in your stance on Walled Village. Here's my two cents:
1. Donald X, in his infinite wisdom and benevolence, has given us seven Dominion sets and an eighth on the way, and he thought those sets were optimal and balanced as they were, without the promo cards. I, for one, give Donald credit for having included the correct ratio of action splitters.
2. If you personally prefer to have one or more Villages available in most of your games, you can always create games with a Village in them, or reject games that don't have a Village in them.
3. Walled Village is pretty much worse than all the other villages in the real game. So having it is not much better than having none at all.
The logic is simple:
A. I tend to prefer kingdoms that have at least one village (because I like engine games).
B. Having Walled Village available increases the probability of randomly drawing a kingdom with a village.
C. Therefore, I prefer to have Walled Village available.
To address the points you raise:
1. Different players like different cards. The distribution of types of cards in the boxes can't be perfect for every player.
2. Pro games choose the kingdom uniformly at random. Besides, it's not that I never want to play a kingdom sans Villages. I just like to have a high probability of having one.
3. Completely false. Walled Village is nearly as good in engines as a vanilla Village, because there's not a huge difference between $3 and $4. Sure it's far from the best village around, but it's usable.
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Probability of at least one Village with no promos: 63.7%
Probability of at least one Village with only WV promo: 65.5%
Probability of at least one Village with all 5 promos: 64.7%
Maybe it's just me, but I don't see that 1% being that big a deal.
The problem is that you are assigning godlike qualities to Donald here. The truth of the matter is that there are slightly too few action splitters, I think most people would agree with that
I disagree. Mainly because, again, adding a single bonus village increases the chance of having a village by a measly 2%.
In all of these calculations I'm ignoring TR, KC, Golem, and Procession, all of which can function, in the presence of cantrips, as villages. (I'm also ignoring the Bane from Young Witch, and Black Market, and we all know why I'm ignoring them.)
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You don't even need cantrips to make TR/KC function as Villages. Just have a high enough TR/KC density. This is a little easier to pull off with KC.
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You don't even need cantrips to make TR/KC function as Villages. Just have a high enough TR/KC density. This is a little easier to pull off with KC.
Much easier. Terminal Draw also helps.
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Technically it is not easier with KC, because KCs are harder to get than TRs.
In reality these kinds of engines will either have cantrips mixed in (KC'ing a cantrip draws an extra card) or will oscillate between dead turns and awesome turns, and KC facilitates both. But TRs are way easier to get and therefore will turn out TR-TR-terminal hands earlier.
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Btw, is there anybody else who managed to get Walled Village without Google account? There obviously was a small time window (between two updates probably) when there was no Google requirement to get it. And that's when I got it... I almost feel bad about it given the intense discussion around it but.. yeah... Almost. :)