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[silverspawn]

I'll turn this into a silly point game thing. not to be taken too seriously (IG):

#42: Says he hasn't read the setup. Jokey start. (Apr 8) (no, forum, this is not a smiley)

#50: Casually rates the town slip as genuine. +2 (2 total)

#55: Buddies GreyICE. +1 (1 total)

#179: Says Awaclus is "more engaged than his usual town self".

#203: Makes a decent point about too much joking being usable to cover up scuminess. (Apr 9)

#261: Makes a decent point about long days being good. Town point for continuously making sense +1 (3 total)

#299: Says he doesn't like the WW wagon and that Seprix is scummy for pushing it. >> rereads WW wagon << He's right.  +2 (5 total) (Apr 12)

#338: Makes his speech about his new playstyle. (Apr 13)

#345: Expresses new confidence in his vote on Seprix after he made a long post.

#359: Faust makes a bad vote on IG. I'll give IG a town point for that. +1 (6 total)

#361: Says Faust is feeling disingenuous. I agree! Town points. +2 (8 total)

#369: Points out that the game is stalling. (Apr 15)

#380 Complains about Awaclus' reads being a copy of faust's and says that voting for him because he changed his playstyle is bad. Feels a lot more genuine to me now than it did as I first read it. +4 (12 total)

#383: Reads list. A good list. +2 (14 total)

#391: Says he cares less about the game because everyone is lurking. That's genuine, but it could also be said by scum.

#414: Makes a lot of sense in response to a WW post. +2 (16 total) (Apr 16)

#424: Insists that he isn't using his meta change to hide anything. I like this because I now feel that it's true, and I can see town!IG doing this more than scum!IG, because as town he knows that he isn't hiding, whereas as scum he should begin to feel that we figured him out because he changed styles. Also says something about Seprix which is null. I don't think the post in question was that bad. +5 (21 total)

#473: Says he is happy to lynch a lurker. That sets off alarm bells (even though I can easily see town saying it). +2 (3 total)(Apr 18)

#488: Votes Awaclus. Unfortunately, Awaclus has warranted the vote, so this is null.

#497: Asks if he should claim. Fine.

#560: Unvotes Awaclus because he feels like low resistance. This is fantastic. +7 (23 total) (Apr 19)

#570: Puts Awaclus at L-1 because time is running out. Understandable, but he is lynching a town, so I have to give scum points. +3 (6 total)

-------------- Day 2 ------------------

#599: Messes up a setup thing. +1 (24 total) (Apr 23)

#628: Says he's obviously in the right about the claim thing. Which is true. +1 (25 total) (Apr 24)

Then he says some more things... nothing stands out (but it's not like he's inactive)

PPE: That makes sense. Have another town point. +1 (26 total)

[silverspawn]

Final Score: 26/6

I sincerely hope you're not scum, because then I'm reaching all the wrong conclusions, but for now I'd say a strong town read.

[silverspawn]

Though I'd actually say let's not claim for now. We don't really need to claim our power in order for it to be useful.

[silverspawn]

that took longer than expected (and ended up very differently than I expected), so I'll do the rest later...

now, everyone comment and talk about and stuff.

[faust]

Nothing going on? faust? Don't you want to explain me why you're town or something?

It's the weekend, I've just moved. Give me some time; you'll get your response.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Final Score: 26/6

I sincerely hope you're not scum, because then I'm reaching all the wrong conclusions, but for now I'd say a strong town read.

Don't worry; I'm not scum.
And yeah, this game stalling is not good at all.

[silverspawn]

Nothing going on? faust? Don't you want to explain me why you're town or something?

It's the weekend, I've just moved.

Oh, well, in that case I hope it's all going nicely, even if you're scum this game.

[LibraryAdventurer]

About the townslip? He gave away that he's probably town. Not much to say about it.

what the fuck 

what do you mean? I couldn't think of anything interesting to say about it. I thought it was pretty self-explainatory.

oops.  sorry, I messed up the quote tags there. hope it doesn't cause confusion...

it does. just re-post the corrected version next time please.

Sorry, it's frustrating to not be able to modify posts, but I can see why the rule is there. I have to get more used to using the preview button.

- makes some more jokes
- has a dog that's scum

To me, this is a big part of what the game is about.

- says some more nothing, then votes IG. this is bad.
- says some stuff about claiming which is wrong, but understandable
- votes for IG because "what he did at the end of day 1 was bad" and lists a bunch of quotes which make him [IG] seem really towny. I think this is probably not how advisedByScumPartners!nooby!LA would start day 2.

I quoted all the posts that make him seem suspicious to me...  I just don't get how that could be 'towny'. Please explain to me what I'm missing here. I just can't think of any legitimate reason why someone would ask if they should claim their role, especially if they're vanilla town.

I don't think not being around for deadline should be counted against anyone. We all live in different time zones. And (hopefully) we all sleep and have jobs and do other things which involve being away from the computer sometimes.

Anyway, I don't have much of a read on most other people. It's a huge departure from IRL mafia. I haven't figured out how to discern lies with only printed words on the screen to go on. So how do you do this?

[Seprix]

I could teach you things, Lib, but we're in the middle of a game. :p

I don't like SS throwing out town cred to IG like candy. I've looked at this from all angles, and IG asking to claim just stinks like a rotten fish. There's been no answer to this question, only dodging the question and telling me why my reasoning is wrong.

[Ichimaru Gin]

There's nothing preventing you from offering some general helpful advice to him. Unless he's your scumpartner and you don't want to give him scum tips in-thread.

If you don't want to listen to people, that's your prerogative, but I feel that my own reasoning and others' on this matter is pretty clear.

[Seprix]

Again, you're doing that vague thing again. Answer the question, and nothing more. No narratives, no accusations, no flavor.

[Ichimaru Gin]

This is becoming a dead horse. I've answered the question already. Apparently my answer doesn't convince either you or Library--everyone else apparently has no trouble with it. I believe I've more than adequately explained myself against your accusations, which are obviously baseless imo.

[LibraryAdventurer]

...I feel that my own reasoning and others' on this matter is pretty clear.

There's been no reasons given by you or anyone else. All that's been said is that obviously I'm wrong. I'd really like to hear why.

This is how you responded to the arguments made against you:

You're both just wrong.
The point is, it's a good idea to ask whether or not to claim whether you're a PR or not, since claiming as a VT can also be harmful to town--since it gives scum information and helps them with their POE. If you're disputing that idea, fine. If not, I fail to see how any of your accusations make sense. I think arguing that claiming VT is fine and dandy and doesn't hurt town at all is also nonsensical, but whatever.

You answer here assumes that you would have claimed if you hadn't asked to claim. No where here do you explain your need to claim in the first place. Why claim and why ask to claim?
And in answer to me saying I don't see the harm in claiming VT, you just say I'm wrong and it's nonsensical to disagree with you.

When others tried to clarify what I was saying, this is what you said:

The whole "asking to claim means you're a PR or were going to fakeclaim a PR" is a shitty idea on multiple levels and one that assumes bad scumplay on my part, which is always annoying.

What you're saying here is "I am right and you are wrong because what you're saying is stupid." There's no explaination here.

[Ichimaru Gin]

...I feel that my own reasoning and others' on this matter is pretty clear.

There's been no reasons given by you or anyone else. All that's been said is that obviously I'm wrong. I'd really like to hear why.

This is how you responded to the arguments made against you:

You're both just wrong.
The point is, it's a good idea to ask whether or not to claim whether you're a PR or not, since claiming as a VT can also be harmful to town--since it gives scum information and helps them with their POE. If you're disputing that idea, fine. If not, I fail to see how any of your accusations make sense. I think arguing that claiming VT is fine and dandy and doesn't hurt town at all is also nonsensical, but whatever.

You answer here assumes that you would have claimed if you hadn't asked to claim. No where here do you explain your need to claim in the first place. Why claim and why ask to claim?
And in answer to me saying I don't see the harm in claiming VT, you just say I'm wrong and it's nonsensical to disagree with you.

When others tried to clarify what I was saying, this is what you said:

The whole "asking to claim means you're a PR or were going to fakeclaim a PR" is a shitty idea on multiple levels and one that assumes bad scumplay on my part, which is always annoying.

What you're saying here is "I am right and you are wrong because what you're saying is stupid." There's no explaination here.

Your first statement is patently false. Both of you just refuse to accept what I (and others) have stated on this matter.

I guess you both fundamentally misinterpret my intentions behind asking to claim, which surprise! was just me asking whether I should claim or not. Nothing about being a PR, nothing about manipulation or that I was going to claim regardless of whatever people's reponses were. If that was true, I would have actually claimed. It's not my job to convince every single person I'm town. Your guys' interpretation of my behavior has gained no traction and will likely not, because it is wrong. There is nothing scummy about what I did.

[faust]

fine. no claiming then.

It's curious how you find me scummy for not wanting to share powers, and push for sharing powers, then someone else agrees with me and suddenly you're all like "well, okay then".

[faust]

Here is one of his read lists:

Since things are stalling out, why don't we do one of these?

Want to lynch: Ichi, pit
Meh: Hydrad, Awaclus, WW, LA, silver
Won't lynch: Jimmmmm, Grey, Seprix

I really don't like his want to lynch list. It's way too easy.

#383: Reads list. A good list. +2 (14 total)

So having a "want to lynch" list of town!Awaclus, verytownie!Seprix and town!me is good, but my reads list is bad because it's "too easy"? Sorry, but I don't get this at all.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Seprix is not townie. He knows that he can get away with all this crazy stuff and people will think he's town because of it. I don't buy it. You've been partners with him; I'd expect town!faust to at least consider that angle.

[faust]

Seprix is not townie. He knows that he can get away with all this crazy stuff and people will think he's town because of it. I don't buy it. You've been partners with him; I'd expect town!faust to at least consider that angle.

Well, I don't see any reason to believe he's scum, and he seems very genuinely involved today. What "crazy stuff" are you referring to?

[faust]

I kind of have to agree that Ichi did not adequately answer the question of why he asked if he should claim. I don't know if that's scummy though.

On one hand, here's Ichi just being Ichi. It would be nice if you could tone down your anger and approach this more rationally. Calling what other people say "patently false" doesn't solve anything, it doesn't move the game forward.

On the other hand, man, talking about people's reasons to claim is not something I like to see in thread. It's always such a small step to softclaiming your role.

Now there's the assumption that we all started out as VTs, and if that's the case, then Ichi asking to claim is weird. You don't claim as Vanilla Townie, period. (unless there's like a mass claim or something)

[Ichimaru Gin]

Seprix is not townie. He knows that he can get away with all this crazy stuff and people will think he's town because of it. I don't buy it. You've been partners with him; I'd expect town!faust to at least consider that angle.

Well, I don't see any reason to believe he's scum, and he seems very genuinely involved today. What "crazy stuff" are you referring to?

You were in this game D1 right? I mean the insane overconfidence in his reads. He pushed the Awaclus wagon super hard. Accusing people of a bunch of stuff that isn't really scummy and/or I don't actually see as being the case. WW's "terrible play" etc. It feels fake. Granted, I don't have the best track record of reading him, but he's capable of emulating his scumplay and has been rewarded with townreads for acting this way before as scum.

I kind of have to agree that Ichi did not adequately answer the question of why he asked if he should claim. I don't know if that's scummy though.

On one hand, here's Ichi just being Ichi. It would be nice if you could tone down your anger and approach this more rationally. Calling what other people say "patently false" doesn't solve anything, it doesn't move the game forward.

On the other hand, man, talking about people's reasons to claim is not something I like to see in thread. It's always such a small step to softclaiming your role.

Now there's the assumption that we all started out as VTs, and if that's the case, then Ichi asking to claim is weird. You don't claim as Vanilla Townie, period. (unless there's like a mass claim or something)

What do you mean, you never claim as VT? People claim as VTs all the time. Outside of massclaims too. I was approaching it more calmly earlier, but this constant harping on the same point gets old. The burden of proof isn't on me. I did what I did and people can make of it what they will.

What this really comes down to is them accusing me of softclaiming a PR--which is crazy. I mean, I guess my reputation is that I looooove to fakeclaim as scum (though most of the times I've fakeclaimed, it hasn't been my idea), but really, that would be such a colossal misplay as scum, I'm insulted.

I said earlier, I'm willing to accept when I make mistakes. With how some people have reacted, maybe me asking to claim was poor play. It sounds like we're mostly on the same page actually.

[faust]

Seprix is not townie. He knows that he can get away with all this crazy stuff and people will think he's town because of it. I don't buy it. You've been partners with him; I'd expect town!faust to at least consider that angle.

Well, I don't see any reason to believe he's scum, and he seems very genuinely involved today. What "crazy stuff" are you referring to?

You were in this game D1 right? I mean the insane overconfidence in his reads. He pushed the Awaclus wagon super hard. Accusing people of a bunch of stuff that isn't really scummy and/or I don't actually see as being the case. WW's "terrible play" etc. It feels fake. Granted, I don't have the best track record of reading him, but he's capable of emulating his scumplay and has been rewarded with townreads for acting this way before as scum.

I kind of have to agree that Ichi did not adequately answer the question of why he asked if he should claim. I don't know if that's scummy though.

On one hand, here's Ichi just being Ichi. It would be nice if you could tone down your anger and approach this more rationally. Calling what other people say "patently false" doesn't solve anything, it doesn't move the game forward.

On the other hand, man, talking about people's reasons to claim is not something I like to see in thread. It's always such a small step to softclaiming your role.

Now there's the assumption that we all started out as VTs, and if that's the case, then Ichi asking to claim is weird. You don't claim as Vanilla Townie, period. (unless there's like a mass claim or something)

What do you mean, you never claim as VT? People claim as VTs all the time. Outside of massclaims too. I was approaching it more calmly earlier, but this constant harping on the same point gets old. The burden of proof isn't on me. I did what I did and people can make of it what they will.

What this really comes down to is them accusing me of softclaiming a PR--which is crazy. I mean, I guess my reputation is that I looooove to fakeclaim as scum (though most of the times I've fakeclaimed, it hasn't been my idea), but really, that would be such a colossal misplay as scum, I'm insulted.

I said earlier, I'm willing to accept when I make mistakes. With how some people have reacted, maybe me asking to claim was poor play. It sounds like we're mostly on the same page actually.

Well, I remember feeling differently about Seprix D1. But I admittedly haven't been too focused on this game, and I'd have to reread to be more certain. What I know is that his play today feels genuine. But yeah, rereading may be good.

I guess people do claim as VTs, but that's mostly bad play. In general, claiming VT is bad for town.

Lastly, anyone can screw up as scum. I mean, I'd say you screwed up there as either alignment. As scum, it's always possible that you asked to claim knowing perfectly well that people would tell you not to, and then use this for towncred - which is a stretch, but not completely impossible. So it's not necessarily misplay.

Anyway. We probably should move on from this. I don't think it gives conclusive evidence about your alignment either way.

[Seprix]

This is becoming a dead horse. I've answered the question already. Apparently my answer doesn't convince either you or Library--everyone else apparently has no trouble with it. I believe I've more than adequately explained myself against your accusations, which are obviously baseless imo.

This is incredible. This is just incredible. You're not going to even answer the question, are you? If you could have, you would have by now.

Seprix is not townie. He knows that he can get away with all this crazy stuff and people will think he's town because of it. I don't buy it. You've been partners with him; I'd expect town!faust to at least consider that angle.

So I'm not townie because I'm doing crazy stuff? I just pointed out my bad play when I was sheeping. You're not answering a simple question. I'm done asking. Faust is right. I am beating a dead horse.

vote: IG

[Hydrad]

Well I guess i'll be the odd one out and say I don't think IG's "claim" was as bad as everyone else seems to think it was.

[Witherweaver]

Well I guess i'll be the odd one out and say I don't think IG's "claim" was as bad as everyone else seems to think it was.

I agree with Faust; it isn't conclusive.  The scum narrative is not nearly as poor as IG makes it out to be, though.

[faust]

Well, I gotta say silver rereading Ichi and then arriving at a different read feels sorta genuine.

unvote