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[jotheonah]

I mean will someone with an ounce of sense look back at the last page and a half and tell me that the case against me, that I named more than one person at the phase of the day when we're trying to negotiate a lynch, makes sense? Or that Axxle has actual contributed a single helpful thing since replacing in, in particular a single comment about me that contained an original thought?

I'm totally down with being lynched, but get ready to look back tomorrow on the votes that got you there. Try to find the real scumhunting beneath them.

If you are town j, then unvote and make them work for it

You know I can't do that, Captain. If I unvote, all I'll ever hear from Robz is "You want to look like you want to die but you don't really, you must be mafia!" No thanks.

And Tables, maybe I would care about insulting the whole town if the whole town cared about ignoring me. It's become increasingly impossible for me to play this game and I'm pretty much done with it.

I'll unvote when Robz is convinced that I'm really ok with dying and not just faking it.

[jotheonah]

And Tables, name one thing Axxle's said against me that has real merit.

[Captain_Frisk]

To the people currently voting for j: don't backdown and reward this bad behavior

[jotheonah]

Unvote

But Robz, one peep out of you and it goes right back on.

Now I'm gonna go take some deep breaths.

This game really brings out the rage in me.

[Voltgloss]

This feels apropos.

[jotheonah]

I think survivalist = mafia is a really really dangerous tell. No one likes having everyone against them, no one likes being lynched. Think about Morgrim day 1 of MII. It seems like every time we get close to lynching someone and they get panicky and then we interpret that panickiness as a scum tell and then we lynch them and they flip town. And we say But they were so scummy!

We're like Spanish Inquisition. We bully "confessions" out of people then lynch them for them. If the f.ds community learns anything from me, I hope you'll learn that wanting to live is not a tell and crazy is not a tell. Tells are things that an actual scum would actually do. Those are the only tells.

I am completely serious about Axxle, by the way. I think his play deserves some scrutiny hes been active, yet unhelpful and a little defensive (I'm thinking of when he jumped on pops with "When I try to contribute I'm scummy). At the risk of sounding hypocritical, his play has been pretty different from his straightforward town play in MIII. And I don't know what purpose his hostile edge against me serves if he's town.

[jotheonah]

Did I scare everybody away? I'll just slump quietly in the corner now while you guys come to the inevitable conclusion that you really can't not lynch me after that hysterical performance.

[Captain_Frisk]

This feels apropos.

I thought that was Quentin tarrantino's word.

[Captain_Frisk]

Did I scare everybody away? I'll just slump quietly in the corner now while you guys come to the inevitable conclusion that you really can't not lynch me after that hysterical performance.

Don't tempt me.

[Tables]

Having looked back, Axxle has indeed not said a whole lot of new things about Joth. On the other hand, his reasons for voting are hardly unexplained. I'm not going to defend Axxle, and actually, I can see why Joth is suspicious. But right now... I can't think of much else to say about Joth. Is he really our best lynch target for the day, though? I think... I'd give him a better than 50% chance of flipping scum. And that's comfortable odds to lynch.

And since the day might end before I next get on, and I might die if I'm very unlucky with the mafia/doctor (note to doctor: Remember to randomly choose to defend either me or SFS, personally I'd like you biased towards me but make your own choice) (note to mafia: Feel free to try and shoot me or SFS), I'd just like to remind everyone: I'm still not sold on SFS being guaranteed town. I've seen nothing resembling a compelling argument for his innocence, and the possibility of him being mafia working on a teammates suggestion seems reasonable to me. I think he's likely town, but not guaranteed.

[O]

Jo reads dumb townie, just like he always has.

I would have voted him as a policy lynch for self-voting (which yes, I have threatened to do before but never actually did) but the "omg wanting to live is a scumtell" is such crap that I can't justify voting along with users of such terrible logic.

[Axxle]

Wanting to live in lieu of scumhunting is a scumtell.

[O]

Wanting to live in lieu of scumhunting is a scumtell.

not quite sure what you mean there. Jo *is* scumhunting just as much as any of us, IMO.

[Galzria]

Well, as far as scummyness goes, Axxle has been behind Pops at #2 on my radar. His voting against me quickly when I made my case on Robz (and the ridiculousness of his reason more than anything "Galz just doesn't want another strong thinker in the town" uhh... Right), his lack of anything substantive to say, his push for a wagon to roll... That's just off the top of my head without looking back.

Jo, I have played 3 games with you now. The first, we were unfortunately on opposite sides, and I knew it. Had I been town, you played a very enjoyable game. I would love to have town like that around. In the second, I got an uncanny read on you D1, that set both of us up to fall. Here, game 3, you've not played like the person I looked forward to having on my team. It makes me sad, but you shouldn't take it personally, and the "oh, pity me" argument doesn't go over well. Pops did it a few pages back and it irked me there too.

I guess what I'm saying is, while my reads have 2 (actually, 3) people more SCUMMY than you, my gut says "I've seen town Jo. This is not town Jo. I've seen SK Jo. This is not SK Jo. Jo  roleclaimed vanilla already, so this is not PR Jo. I've never seen this Jo before. The only role I've never seen Jo play is Mafia. This must be Mafia Jo".

You claim kicking and screaming that you're not Mafia. Let's say, fine, I believe you. I go back to voting Pops. You don't get lynched, you don't get NK'd (and goodness, town or Mafia you won't). Now what? And let's say on the OUTSIDE chance you ARE Mafia... If I (or we, whatever) let you get away with playing like this... Well, we've basically screwed ourselves for any future Mafia games.

Do you SEE how the way you're playing is hurting the town? O is right, Axxle's argument that "survivalist is scum" is crap (for the record, and I corrected Axxle, I personally said it was irksome, not scummy). I shouldn't be on your bandwagon because you're not even in my top THREE. Yet here I am, willing to lynch you on the CHANCE you might be scum, even though I believe it more likely there is scum on your wagon. But it rids us of a Jo that I'm not honestly sure what to do with.

Yeah, it's a bit of a bind, and I'm rather conflicted about it.

[Galzria]

Unvote

I'm going to bed. I'm too confused/conflicted to be voting for anybody right now, and I've got to be up for work at 3:30.

Jo... Nevermind. I've said all I can say.

Here's a quick rundown of where I stand:

Most Likely Mafia to Least Likely:
Popofctown
Axxle
---
Glooble
Grujah
Jotheonah
Tables
---
Dsell
C.F.
O
SFS
Robz
Galzria

I'd be shocked if anything in that list order surprised anyone.

Anyway, to bed.

[Robz888]

I've never said that I think Jo is mafia because he wants to live. We all want to live. I want to live. And if you try to lynch me, I will argue against you. But Jo pretends to give up and not care when he gets close to dying, and it's such a sham. That's the scum part of his survivalism.

[Voltgloss]

Vote Count 2-14

Galzria (1): popsofctown
O (1): SwitchedFromStarcraft
jotheonah (4): Dsell, Tables, Robz888, Axxle
popsofctown (1): Glooble
Glooble (1): O

Not voting {4}: Grujah, Captain_Frisk, jotheonah, Galzria

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch

Lynch Deadline:  Monday, June 25, 9:59 a.m. EDT

[jotheonah]

I've never said that I think Jo is mafia because he wants to live. We all want to live. I want to live. And if you try to lynch me, I will argue against you. But Jo pretends to give up and not care when he gets close to dying, and it's such a sham. That's the scum part of his survivalism.

So the leaving six votes on me for a good bit didn't do anything to convince you that my willingness to die is sincere? No of course it didn't. But I doubt anything I could do save actually dying would.

Galz, I get it. Actually, all of you, I apologize for the outburst last night. Galzria though, you remember right before you died in MIII how you got crazy and voted for yourself because you were so sure about me and no one was listening to you?  I get crazy when no one listens to me.  And through entirely fault of my own, I've set it up so that no one does like ever.  When I point that out, it's scummy. When I do my darnedest to play like I did in Mafia II, that's also scummy cause "why the sudden change in your playstyle dude?" There's more or less nothing I can do at this point that isn't scummy, and yet most of you don't really think I'm scum.

Anyway, it's time to put my vote where my big mouth is. Vote: Axxle2

[Captain_Frisk]

Anyway, it's time to put my vote where my big mouth is. Vote: Axxle2

Sigh.

[Galzria]

Anyway, it's time to put my vote where my big mouth is. Vote: Axxle2

Sigh.

Despite it being the 50 millionth person he's voted for, I can't really take issue with this one, since he's made it quite clear (albeit not in THAT post) why his vote is there... And at least with this vote he's not sheeping, but actually voting on his own reads.

[Captain_Frisk]

Anyway, it's time to put my vote where my big mouth is. Vote: Axxle2

Sigh.

Despite it being the 50 millionth person he's voted for, I can't really take issue with this one, since he's made it quite clear (albeit not in THAT post) why his vote is there... And at least with this vote he's not sheeping, but actually voting on his own reads.

Yeah, I don't necessarily disagree with it, it's just the feeling that I get whenever J is pushing something... like having a KKK Grand Wizard teach me algebra... I can't really argue with the message, but the teacher and his other behavior makes me inherently distrusting.

Still nothing from SFS or Grujah?  I hope we didn't scare them off!  Come back!

[jotheonah]

... like having a KKK Grand Wizard teach me algebra...

That was oddly specific. What was high school like for you?

[Captain_Frisk]

... like having a KKK Grand Wizard teach me algebra...

That was oddly specific. What was high school like for you?

Well - my original thought was something political, like listening to a $political_figure speech and agreeing with it, despite the fact that you distruct $political_figure.  Then I figured that politics didn't really have a place here, so I decided to modify it to be something that would be really difficult to argue with....  and dudes running around in pointy white hats calling each other wizards are pretty tough to defend...

[WanderingWinder]

... like having a KKK Grand Wizard teach me algebra...

That was oddly specific. What was high school like for you?

Well - my original thought was something political, like listening to a $political_figure speech and agreeing with it, despite the fact that you distruct $political_figure.  Then I figured that politics didn't really have a place here, so I decided to modify it to be something that would be really difficult to argue with....  and dudes running around in pointy white hats calling each other wizards are pretty tough to defend...

Is that a challenge? 

[Captain_Frisk]

Is that a challenge? 

Since we're having a tough time picking our lynch, it sounds like we might want to consider WW?

Vote: WanderingWinder