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[liopoil]

my post about all the scenarios. I was listing all the things that would also have to be true if player X was on scumteam Y, to measure the plausability of each scenario.

[Robz888]

I actually think the scummiest thing about yuma is his overall behavior, especially today. I feel like he basically remained more or less insistent on voting for me the whole time. Which like, I know I'm the only person who knows for sure that that's bad, but the rest of us have all changed are mind a lot--a reflection of how truly hard this is, I think. Yuma just wants to get someone--me--lynched and take home his scum win.

but that isn't even true! I was highly considering Jimmmmm as the remaining scum early in the day. But after actually looking at the facts I came to the conclusion that he has a less of a chance of being scum than you. I mean, evidence aside. He can't be MU, you can. And I am not even going to consider lio being Godfather. Sorry, but I am not.... Furthermore, when you add in the evidence I think it points significantly toward you. So, yes I am pushing for you lynch because I think you are the remaining scum.

And I was pushing for No Lynch in the hope that scum might screw up and make our job easier by shooting somebody, and then you had to come in and ruin it with your stupid "I didn't LR!" confession.

[yuma]

you are less likely to push the mcmc lynch as scum. That is a mark in your favor.

But what I am saying is this?

What is more likely?

That I as MU would push for the lynch of a partner while already a man down from a NK?

Or

That Robz as scum would prevent a lynch of a partner while already a man down from a NK?

To me it seems that the better answer is Robz, because losing two partners by day2 isn't winnable. Whereas saving a partner still keeps the chances of winning alive.

I agree that my Day 2 actions are pretty damn scummy.

But about you "pushing" mcmc... let's be real here. Scum push their partners. In some games I feel like scum push their own partners more than they do townies. It has to be more than just a push to really count for something.

I know scum push their partners... But do they push their partners up to a L-2 just after having lost their partner on Day2 of a multiscum game.

Ok, let's say I am MU. And let's say that mcmc was lynched. Where would I be? Entering day3 as the lone remaining scum up against town and another scum team. The odds of winning are very slim. At this point I would basically be an underpowered SK. Scum would not try to get their partner lynched the very next day. They wouldn't. It is not a winnable game plan.

[liopoil]

I agree that Yuma has been more scummy today than robz. However, I do not think that counts for much, when we have all this other evidence.

[yuma]

I actually think the scummiest thing about yuma is his overall behavior, especially today. I feel like he basically remained more or less insistent on voting for me the whole time. Which like, I know I'm the only person who knows for sure that that's bad, but the rest of us have all changed are mind a lot--a reflection of how truly hard this is, I think. Yuma just wants to get someone--me--lynched and take home his scum win.

but that isn't even true! I was highly considering Jimmmmm as the remaining scum early in the day. But after actually looking at the facts I came to the conclusion that he has a less of a chance of being scum than you. I mean, evidence aside. He can't be MU, you can. And I am not even going to consider lio being Godfather. Sorry, but I am not.... Furthermore, when you add in the evidence I think it points significantly toward you. So, yes I am pushing for you lynch because I think you are the remaining scum.

And I was pushing for No Lynch in the hope that scum might screw up and make our job easier by shooting somebody, and then you had to come in and ruin it with your stupid "I didn't LR!" confession.

well soooooorrrrrrrrrrryyyyyyyyyyyyy!

[liopoil]

I'm sure if you are MU you didn't actually want mcmc lynched.

[liopoil]

You were being risky and walking the fine line between the disaster of mcmc being lynched and the success of winning D6 when you show everybody what a crazy thing you did D2 if you were scum.

[liopoil]

Oh, and this too.

3. some members of town haven't yet had input (robz, mcmc) and I would like them to do so...

...how do you know Robz and Mcmc are town?  Scum slip?

... whether or not they are members of "station" or "marquies" I still want to hear from them.

[yuma]

I'm sure if you are MU you didn't actually want mcmc lynched.

So instead I would have what? Waited until he reached L-1 unvoted on the sly and hoped that nobody noticed?

[yuma]

You were being risky and walking the fine line between the disaster of mcmc being lynched and the success of winning D6 when you show everybody what a crazy thing you did D2 if you were scum.

I am not sure what you mean here

[yuma]

Oh, and this too.

3. some members of town haven't yet had input (robz, mcmc) and I would like them to do so...

...how do you know Robz and Mcmc are town?  Scum slip?

... whether or not they are members of "station" or "marquies" I still want to hear from them.

And I am not sure what you want from me here either? I believe I have already addressed it, but further, if you think I am MU it can't be a scum slip because mcmc isn't town. He was MU. And I would have known that....

[yuma]

Jimmmmmm what do you have to say?

[Jimmmmm]

Not much at the moment, about to head out. liopoil's obviously leaning yuma, I'm still slightly leaning Robz. It has to be one of you two, but I'm struggling to see how we can get it to better than 50/50. I'll add more when I have more time.

[yuma]

Not much at the moment, about to head out. liopoil's obviously leaning yuma, I'm still slightly leaning Robz. It has to be one of you two, but I'm struggling to see how we can get it to better than 50/50. I'll add more when I have more time.

That is why I can't figure out why Robz thinks I am scummy for believing scum to be Robz. Does anyone else find it weird that he is so hesitant to point the finger at me?

It can't be lio... Robz is the only person seriously considering that.
It probably isn't Jimmmmm. I considered the idea briefly, but Robz has been a greater supporter of it.

Maybe I do think being so wishywashy in this context is scummy... Is Robz trying to keep his options open and seeing if he can convince 2 of us to go somewhere else onto Jimmmm or lio? I think he might have, but now that he sees that neither of those lynches are going through he is turning his sights toward me?

[Robz888]

Maybe I do think being so wishywashy in this context is scummy... Is Robz trying to keep his options open and seeing if he can convince 2 of us to go somewhere else onto Jimmmm or lio? I think he might have, but now that he sees that neither of those lynches are going through he is turning his sights toward me?

This is ignorant, and unbelievable, and frankly insulting. I'm trying to find the last scum, goddamit. You aren't a perfect match, and neither is anyone else. I'm changing my mind a lot because this is really difficult. If it were obvious, we are all competent enough to get it by now. And anyway, I'm voting for my plan, which was a good one, which may have made this easier and wouldn't have hurt, and you screwed that up. And no, I think the scummier thing is being pretty sure of yourself like you are. I'm still not entirely convinced it's you.

[yuma]

Maybe I do think being so wishywashy in this context is scummy... Is Robz trying to keep his options open and seeing if he can convince 2 of us to go somewhere else onto Jimmmm or lio? I think he might have, but now that he sees that neither of those lynches are going through he is turning his sights toward me?

This is ignorant, and unbelievable, and frankly insulting. I'm trying to find the last scum, goddamit. You aren't a perfect match, and neither is anyone else. I'm changing my mind a lot because this is really difficult. If it were obvious, we are all competent enough to get it by now. And anyway, I'm voting for my plan, which was a good one, which may have made this easier and wouldn't have hurt, and you screwed that up. And no, I think the scummier thing is being pretty sure of yourself like you are. I'm still not entirely convinced it's you.

not trying to be insulting... not at all. Look from my perspective I dont' know that you are the last remaining scum. I am not sure. I am not themunch! But in this game you have to look at the evidence and everything else and try and determine what is most likely.

I will repeat myself. 1. the odds point to you. 2. the evidence points to you. The odds don't point to Jimmm or lio, nor does the evidence in as much abundance point to them. So I have decided that I am picking you as the remaining scum. I made my decision and I am sticking with it. I thought that perhaps the new info of my not using LR might change that I relooked at everything, but it didn't. In fact I think it makes you even more likely to be the remaining scum.

And as for ruining your plan. That wasn't my intention. I am sorry. I just wanted to let you guys know that I hadn't used the LR. I panicked because of my stupidity. You keep pounding it in that I screwed up. I already know that...

[Robz888]

I don't know if I keep "pounding it in." I complained about it twice...

[Robz888]

About using evidence to decide that it's me... okay that's fine, it just doesn't feel like that's what you did. And I myself am having a much harder time being persuaded by any amount of evidence, since there's so much in every direction.

[yuma]

About using evidence to decide that it's me... okay that's fine, it just doesn't feel like that's what you did. And I myself am having a much harder time being persuaded by any amount of evidence, since there's so much in every direction.

But I do feel like I did...you remember my weird math that I did earlier today? I mean I was the first to get rereads down on both you and Jimmmm... I did it very early in the day, but that doesn't mean I didn't do it. If you dont' believe me go back and look at today.

And maybe Jimmmm is pulling one over on us. It is possible. I just think it is less possible when I stack everything up against itself. I have to go with what I think is most probable.

[liopoil]

My re-reads, posted together so I and others can read it to remember stuff easily:

Yuma:

D1

I think I will vote: mcmcsalot for this, but also for first finding the eevee case strong; 2. attempting to cast me as a potential scum partner for defending it but then ignoring all the others who defended it. 3. and then turning on Jimmm once it was apparent that the eevee wagon was going nowhere. Making a case on a bad case builder is a safe route for scum to go.

his first vote of the game, on MU scum. Robz's first vote was on MU too, but that was RVS, this isn't.

now that is the sort of Day 1 case that I understand and can get behind. It isn't trying to make something out of nothing. (well it is because it is making a case out of lack of posts, but you know what I mean...) vote: glooble

He doesn't interact with the scum much D1, but there is this, and later this:

blah... well I am kinda disappointed in the reaction to glooble's reaction. It was just too easy.... I personally want to hear more from Glooble

And as we know he continues this scumread on glooble the whole way. He also says a few of the other cases aren't as good, so he really is saying that the glooble lynch is his most preffered lynch.

3. some members of town haven't yet had input (robz, mcmc) and I would like them to do so...

...how do you know Robz and Mcmc are town?  Scum slip?

... whether or not they are members of "station" or "marquies" I still want to hear from them. And regardless of alignment they are still members of "the town" in this imaginary game world they live side by side with the rest of us and have a voice and a vote.

Oh... and Galz too hasn't weighed in yet

This has been mentioned as a scum slip for yuma being MU, and it actually is kinda bad. I really believe the marquis-maquis thing was a legit error, and that combined with his interaction with glooble make me think he isn't maquis, but I think there is something to him being MU.

Very little interaction with galzria, mcmc, and munch D1. That's scummy I think.

D2

--galzria anaylsis--

It's very interesting actually, I suggest you read it, but it is a bit long to quote in full. I think scum would tend not to interact too much with their partners. galz-mcmc didn't and glooble-munch didn't. He says that he doesn't think it is mcmc because he had a townread on him.

just found this quote from Glooble:

I have fairly strong townreads on Galz and shraeye at the moment (and obviously myself.) Of course, if you (this is refering to Cuzz) flip town, I will be suspicious of them. But first we need to see a flip."

after Cuzz was lynched, but before thread lock and flip...

This is interesting. (because I am more interested in finding Galz's partner, I am paying more attention to the galz part of this, but the fact that Glooble included shraeye in this is interesting)

1. Assuming here that Glooble is scum and on the scum team with Galz.
2. Neither Glooble nor Galz would know what the alignment of Cuzz was--he very well could have been opposing scum.
3. Glooble expresses a town read on Galz if Cuzz flips scum, but a potential scum read on Galz if Cuzz flips scum.
4. This is a win/win for Glooble!partner with Galz. Because if Cuzz is scum, he can now safely have a town read on his partner that won't be especially scrutinized. But if Cuzz is town, he can start a bussread on his partner, again w/o much scrutiny...

So I guess the question is this: would scum!Glooble express a strong town read on his partner? Now I guess he is actually expressing more of a scum read than a town read. Because from scum!Glooble's perspective, Cuzz was more likely to flip town--as scum!Glooble would know that Cuzz wasn't on a scum team with him, so even though he didn't know Cuzz's alignment, he suspected that Cuzz was perhaps more likely to flip town, so his read while potentially strong town was actually more setup to be a scum read...

I think Galzparner!Glooble could write something like this.

Personally I think that quote points to glooble being MAQUIS, not MU. It would make sense that glooble would want to kill galzria from this. But I can see galzpartner!Yuma wanting to make it look like someone else is galz's partner. This also makes absolutely no sense if yuma is maquis.

I think right now I am leaning toward an mcmc vote or a glooble vote...

He mentions mcmc along with glooble a lot... but usually it is with glooble being slightly more suspicious... he does end up voting mcmc though, so hmmmmm.....

--mcmc analysis--

Makes a bunch of good points about why mcmc is scummy. Very risky to do if he is on a team with him that already lost a member. But maybe he thought mcmc wouldn't get lynched anyway. Since he's losing if he's MU maybe taking risks is okay.

--Glooble analysis--

I think that this post could be written by Maquis!yuma. The case definatly isn't as good as the one on mcmc, and he then votes for mcmc. However, that isn't to say that this post sounds like maquis!yuma. Really, these cases on glooble and mcmc are very towny.

He constantly re-iterates his top two scumreads are glooble and mcmc. He never thinks that anyone else is scum. He made good cases on both. Would Yuma make a full case on his partner that had real merit to it on D2?? It doesn't seem worth it to me.

D3

--response to glooble defense--

glooble and Yuma have a big back and forth discussion. I'm feeling like if Yuma is scum then he is MU. Another thing: if yuma is maquis then the nokill N4 is even more confusing, because he doesn't have a different night action to take like, say, maquis Jimmmmmm might. (jailkeep yuma.), unless he isn't a LR. I think he is a LR though, because that's a bad fakeclaim.

He later backs off glooble a bit and switches to Jimmmmm. He doesn't mention mcmc much, but defends his claim. When the glooble wagon materializes he switches back to glooble.

D4

I am a 1-shot Lightning Rod. I have not yet used my power because I think it is a negative utility to town. Yes it would prevent one less death at night, but thus far that would have been bad because we have had scum dying at night, but more importantly it would effectively cause both cop investigations to be nullified. I doubt I will be using it this game because of this... so it is a pretty weak power role. But joth did say that some roles would have a negative utility.

If he is scum that helps balance the third team. immideatly explains why he hasn't LRed yet.

o and I am Elim Garak?

Yuma, how does Elim Garak relate to being a lightning rod? I think Robz has answered this question already.... but I think all four of us should say why again. For me: Rom is a ferengi, and is a blood relative to quark and nog, who are raerae and munch respectively.

I talked to joth day 1 about LR. He said that the LR could be stopped from activating by a couple of roles that I asked specifically about--I won't say which ones specifically, but I will say that nothing that has been claimed is capable of stopping it.

I think you should tell us now yuma!

well if I can't get theorel on board, I'll go back to vote: dsell

This is soon after Robz votes dsell to put him as L-2. in the next post, 19minutes later, MU mcmc hammers. This isn't exactly a quickhammer because the day had been played out and some people were ready for a hammer. however, theorel still hadn't said definitively that yuma should LR (I think), and we had lots of time and things to discuss. scummy.....

D5
At first seems resigned that he is going to be lynched, but then argues against it (which is protown if he is town I guess).

well I will join our IC in voting vote: Robz

redirection. I'm not sure why I didn't consider Yuma more then. Maybe I just thought Robz could so easily be a JK, and at that point it made sense that there was just a MU left (because only theorel died).

It became clear soon that it was going to be mcmc or him. the thing to do with either allignment is to vote mcmc, so I don't think this is much of a defense.

D6

Nothing of importance today except these two:

Yuma has consistently throughout the entire game spelled "maquis" , "marquis" instead.

I noticed that, and had no idea what to make of it.

That is embarrassing... I thought it was "marquis" as in French for nobility. I really know nothing about star trek. What does maquis mean? It must mean something because Google Chrome doesn't even want to auto-correct it... Oh it is also French for "a member of a movement, specifically the one against Germany in WWII.

Again, I don't think he could fake this, or would fake this. He would be sure to slip and spell it right without thinking right? So the question is if he could not know how to spell his team name.

GUYS!!!!!!!!  I made a horrible, horrible, horrible mistake.

Night4 I didn't use my LR because I didn't send in the PM to jotheonah. I did however send in a PM to jtotheonah, which I don't think he checks!!! I just noticed this as I was skimming through my sent posts to find another post for another game. So I believe I still have a 1-shot LR available to use.

Ugggg!!!!!!! I feel horrible. I mean that stupid mistake could easily cost us the game. (it would have prevented theorel's death, although I would be dead right now). I can't even tell you how mad I am right now!

8 minutes after his last post. It is very possible that he went and saw it, and wrote this post in that time span, but you could also say that he just made another post right after that because he was scum and faking. It did come at a very convienient time for him. I'm wondering though: how is it that he made this mistake? typo in typing in the name?

Theoretically he could also be lying as town. It would make sense. Either way he is willing to do anything to avoid being lynched, because he loses if he is lynched, regardless of alignment.

Summary: I think Yuma as maquis is very unlikely. Yuma as MU is probably the most likely scenario.

Robz:

D1

DOUBLE smileys? Vote: Galzria.

his first post he votes scum. Doesn't mean anything most likely. I hear robz doesn't normally RVS though...

Eevee's response is what I expected, and of course it could simply be the case that he used his typical "I'm town" format. Still, I'm highly suspicious him. It's incredulous to believe that he doesn't actually read his PMs carefully or remember his flavor name.

Suspicious of eevee early, like jimmmmm, but for a different reason.

15 players should be 4 scum, right? 2 + 2 or 3 +1. 2 + 3 would be yuck, but I guess it's possible, depending on roles.

Galz, yes I find Eevee scummy for like three reasons I gave. The Dsell thing, and aspects of his response, including something he said that I do judge to be false, that theorel also picked up on: him not knowing his role PM and the setup or whatever. It doesn't fit Eevee; I'm pretty sure he's lying about this to inflate his case for why he didn't say station. He could be lying to inflate his case for why he didn't say station from a position of town or scum, but obviously it seems a bit scummy to me.

I didn't really get his case on you, although I think you're being fairly dense here.

2+3 is yuck. So if robz is scum he probably thought there was a SK. More galz-robz interactions. says he doesn't get the eevee case on galz.

From jimmmmm's post. It seems like he has an important role that will save him from bieng lynched, or at least is planning on claiming to have an important role that will save him from bieng lynched.

I don't know if this counts as "outing" Jimm, but I think he phrased it in a way that makes it obvious to anyone paying attention, and un-obvious to new people like liopil. Scum almost certainly will figure it out if they haven't already. I believe Jimm is saying that he is Hated, which simply means it takes 1 less vote to kill him. In other words, he dies at L-1. Given that Joth mention there may be negative utility roles, this makes sense.

It means that all things being equal, scum are actually less likely to kill him in the night.

thinks Jimmmmm is hated, which is wrong. I thought it too based on this. He probably genuinely thought this though, and might be a reason that a scum!robz wouldn't kill Jimmmmm. otherwise scum might kill Jimmmmm because they thought he had a PR.

@Mcmc: There's no need to panic over like one vote. We vote and unvote like crazy. Sometimes multiple people get bajillions of votes. It's fine for Eevee to get a bunch of votes. If people vote for him and end this day too soon, we will accuse them of being scum and kill those people tomorrow.

Disclaimer for anyone who doesn't know: Mcmc is my IRL brother.

@Post count: My vote for Galzria was fake. I was surprised he hadn't responded to my accusation that he was being dense, but maybe he isn't around, and anyway I don't yet find him scummier than anyone else.

Vote: Eevee, my top scumread for now.

more interactions with mcmc and galzria. not sure what he means about "fake" vote on galzria. Says he doesn't have more of a scumread on him than anyone else, which sounds like disasociation. dunno what to make of what he said to mcmc.

Just checked the roster... invisyuma strikes again, as the saying goes.

I don't expect to hear from Glooble until like Day 4, probably.

Has sparky posted?

calls out two maquis for lurking. If MU it makes sense because his partners and him aren't lurking, so LALL works for him. doesn't make sense as maquis.

Time to pass out.

But maybe one drink more?

Oooh, choices....

Wait, wait... are you scum??

They actually talk to each other a LOT d1. I haven't included most of the times here.

Here is my case against Eevee.

What do you want me to say? I'm station-aligned. Kind of meh Dsell became almost obvtown because of something like this, but could be worse - I could have had time to answer and clear myself before Joth stepped in (well handled btw). Me claiming town was obviously just the running joke from blitz, also I didn't even remember what the exact wording was, not like I read my pm's that carefully. I still don't know what's my flavor name for example (because I've never seen any star trek so the name wouldn't mean anything to me).

I believe the bolded part is a lie, or at least an extreme exaggeration.

Although I must say, so many people are expressing opposition to the Eevee case and that can't all be scum, I am sort of ready to stop talking about it and look critically and someone else. I don't think it's rock-solid by any means. The "contradiction" thing is not much, no.

Doesn't want to talk about eevee anymore, like Jimmmmm. I guess they realized the lynch wasn't going to happen. could be interpreted as scummy.

Alright, just reread over everything, and I'm gonna put my Vote: Cuzz out there for now. He has posted almost exclusively about the setup and offered no actual reads. More than that though, his early vote on Eevee for "buddying" may have only been RVS - but given the controversy surrounding Eevee since, I would've expected either an unvote, or a statement of support for his vote that (at least to me) read like a joke when made. And it isn't like he hasn't been active (well, he's got 8 posts in total, but 2 are RVS, and the other 6 are all just stating what's in the setup).

I just feel that Cuzz, more than anybody else, has been trying to score easy "town" points by talking about the setup without actually talking about the game.

I think that's fair to say of Cuzz, and maybe worth a vote. But there are three people who have barely talked at all. And things are happening!

Agrees with galzria. It seems like more than half of his posts have some relation to galz...

I'm using a somewhat new approach to this game, which I am calling the Straightforward Strategy, or SFS (see what I did there?). My approach to this game, rather than going so strongly off of metas, is to look at two things: 1) Real evidence, and 2) What people are saying.

1) Real evidence -- Something like, Dsell's station-aligned thing with Eevee. I actually think Dsell gets more than a pinch of town cred here. I agree with Jimm that other than that, Dsell would actually seem pretty scummy for underposting, but this evidence is really, really acquitting, I think.

2) What people are saying -- if someone says something that is logical, that makes sense, that I think hits upon valid points and is relevant, I am going to think of that person as less scummy. This is a little bit of a change of pace for me. Usually, when someone says something anti-rational, irrelevant, and over the top, I think of them as less scummy, because scum need to be more careful. But this approach has not worked lately.

--talks about other stuff--

Galzria is registering a lot less than usual in this game, to me, and I do find that weird. And it irks me that his main goal so far seems to be to kill the wagon on Eevee, which I thought was certainly a valid wagon on the scummiest person. Perhaps Eevee would have been/will be a mislynch, but it reeks of scum trying to build towncred by killing wagon on townie. Of course I guess with the multiple scumteams thing, there's like an extra wrinkle in there. Still, since I think the Eevee case was solid-ish, I don't love that Galz worked to kill it.

I'm going to Vote: Cuzz, though, because he's now the person to whom I can't attribute anything. It's really hard to beat Glooble in that regard, and Cuzz is doing it. So.

the first bit about a new playstyle rings towny. second part sounds like he's trying to disassociate himself from galz after all that interaction before. he then proceeds to vote cuzz, which is sheeping galzria. Galz started that wagon.

If robz were maquis, would he want to kill galz N1?

Robz: Throughout the whole eevee thing robz took the lets wait for him to post and see if we can catch him approach. This is the exact thing he did in ZMIX , as an IC he offered very little of his own thoughts because he thought that would make it easy for scum to buddy. The plan obviously didn't work as is allowed mafia to run the discussion. So overall I think this is an anti ton strategy but that could come from robz being a sub par town player(said by him). His analysis on the cops seemed towny. Next comes more asking for other peoples analysis, and asking lurkers to post, neither town or scum read off this as it helps either one. Long time goes by and he mentions the fact that jimm and eevee could both be scum which is a definite possibility  although i'm inclined to thing eevee is town.

Have to go to dinner now will finish up thoughts on robz sometime soonish? and probably wont get to the next person for awhile.

No no no. This is not the same thing. I waited for Eevee to respond--and warned others to do the same--because I didn't want anybody explaining what they thought Eevee meant. BEcause then Eevee could just copy that. After Eevee gave his statement, I enthusiastically gave my view of it, and asked others to do the same. So I think you're mixed up here in reading this as an anti-town thing to do.

I can't tell what mcmc think of robz in that post. is he saying robz is just playing town badly? Robz corrects him. I think mcmc's post, in light of him flipping scum, makes robz look bad.

Robz888: Also on the Eevee wagon. I think he's being a bit over-accusatory. Has been on the lurker's case a bit too much, as have others. At this point the lurkers have had good excuses. Talked about the setup a bunch too. Stuff with the number of mafia is interesting. I'm not as sure about 4 as he is. what about 4 with SK? or even 3-2? He would know more about this if he was scum. Alo would be more likely to talk about it.

oh hey, I had a scumread on robz888 way back then! I think I was the only one. I now disagree with most of the points I made there, except the one about talking about the setup.

Where is Eevee's scum-read on Galz? I missed that, or I don't remember it. Eevee, do you have a scum-read on Galz?

very interested in the scum-read on galz. He didn't miss it though, he mentioned it earlier. This is actually quite scummy.

Where is Eevee's scum-read on Galz? I missed that, or I don't remember it. Eevee, do you have a scum-read on Galz?

Well, like 5% higher scumscore than average. Certainly not seeming towny to me.

For me, my suspicion on Galz comes from two thing: 1) He's under-posting, 2) He threw water on the case I made against you.

But he's under-posting everywhere, and I think is just behind. On the other thing, I probably have to just shed my bias in favor of the case, perhaps, much as his reaction to it grated me.

So I guess I don't have much of a scumread on him, either. And I did follow him in voting Cuzz, actually.

again sort of says he's suspicious and then takes it back. mentioning the cuzz thing is towny though.

Oh, also Jimm now looks like he's trying to divert to Mcmc, who is not registering scum to me at all this game. He's my brother, and he did fool me in his first game, Blitz... but he is way more active here than he was there, and I know he has MORE IRL commitments right now, not less. I think that definitely gives him towncred. Also, the things he's said, they aren't like the most comprehensive opinions ever, but they do have meat. So again, points against Jimm.

townread on MU

Right now here's an update on where I'm at:

Town: Robz, Dsell
Strongly leaning town: Theorel
Slight leaning town: Mcmc, ashersky, TheMunch
Neutral: liopoil, yuma, shraeye
Slightly leaning scum: Cuzz, Galzria, Glooble, raerae
Strongly leaning scum: Jimm, Eevee

Puts galz at leaning scum. Every time Robz has made a point against galz he immediately negates it with a counterpoint. By doing this he can have a slight scumread on him to disassociate himself, but still not get him lynched. sounds like good scum strategy. mcmc is at slight town. interestingly the maquis are also split just on the two sides of neutral.

I think his interactions with mcmc/galz fit with him being MU, but not his interactions with glooble/munch for him being maquis. That's just so far though. The rest of the things he's said to other people really only read slightly scummy to me. this is just part of D1 though, so I wouldn't expect much else.

Time for a POST COUNT. Here is everyone, in order of total posts.

1/2. Jimmmmm 53
1/2. Robz 53
3. Eevee 44
4. ashersky 41
5. Raerae 34
6. Galzria 32
7. Cuzz 30
8. yuma 22
9. Shraeye 21
10. mcmcsalot 20
11/12. Dsell 13
11/12. Glooble 13
13. sparky/themunch 12
14/15. liopoil 9
14/15. theorel 9

The average number of posts per player is 27.

Robz makes a post count which puts him is a good light. Interestingly it does the same for his top two scum reads. I think this highlights that he was trying to get the top two non-robz contributers lynched, which is scummy.

My two biggest suspects are two of the top three posters (and the other is me). That worries me, since in a vacuum, scum aligned players write fewer posts than town-aligned players. However, people who come under suspicion end up posting more than others.

...but then there was this.

I actually think each person needs to be evaluated critically in this regard, and not on a flat scale.

I don't know much about liopoil, so I don't know what "normal" is for him. But for Theorel, that is pretty spot on. Very few posts, tons of content in each.

For the Glooble's and Yuma's, they are actually just higher than I normally look, so I wouldn't consider them "lurking" to their own standard.

And this is the point I made about myself earlier. I HAVE been underposting. Yesterday because I was RL gaming, today because I've been swamped catching up here. My overall numbers might still be above average - but I'll be the first to admit that against my own standards of posting, yes, I am in fact "lurking".

Looking at that list, in all honesty, I think everybody is contributing at or above their normal levels. I see no real lurkers (besides myself) listed.

Towniest. Post. Ever.

I do also agree with this. The flow of this game has been pretty much spot on.

Is either agreeing with galz, or agreeing that the post was the towniest ever.

I sort of feel like I'll end up claiming today with a good probability. Should I do it earlier to give us/you more time to react? Obviously not commenting on what I think your reaction to my claim will be.

No, don't. No reason to.

Doesn't want eevee to claim. Pro-town. He has started to be more towny, apart from interactions w/galzria. If I didn't know about anything about what happened after D1 I would probably have a null read on robz, maybe even town read.

Robz, I've laid out on multiple occasions detailed analysis of exactly the points that I believe indicate Eevee is town. Yet you continue to persecute him. You've known and played with Eevee as long as I have. What do you think makes my read wrong, and yours right?

I'm not persecuting him. Believe me, I would much rather have him be town. But I can't ignore the fact that I don't believe he actually doesn't know the contents of his role PM, that the Dsell incident makes him slightly more likely to be scum, that his immediate behavior did not scream town as it usually does, and that very recently he made an abrupt shift to his typical town persona after giving an extremely accurate description of exactly what that persona is.

I also find it weird that two players--one of whom had previously suspected him--declared that they would not vote for him. It's weird, and none of the three of them come out looking good. I'd pretty sure some scum, somewhere, is trying to kill the Eevee lynch, possibly to gain his favor.

this also reads town, and doesn't really match with galz being robz's partner as much.

I mean the big thing holding me back on you (and Eevee) is your high post counts.

He said similar things about his top suspects being top contributers. I thought this was towny for pointing this out to everyone, which it is. but then I realized that he could also be emphasizing the importance on contribution because he is also at the top of the post counts.

To me, Mcmc isn't giving off any of the slightly obvious scumtells that he gave off in Blitz9 (at the time, I thought they were too obvious to be scummy--I know, I know, obvious play is obvious, I suck). So I actually see him as playing one sort of game his first time around, as scum, and now to me at least his play looks much different.

I mean, I caught him saying all sorts of things like "I don't want to seem like I'm doing X" in Blitz9, which I said (I did say it in that thread) were scumtells. Of course he could simply be improving as scum, or his partners telling him not to say those things (and I guess I sort of told him not to say those things in Blitz9), but in a vacuum at least his play is believably different.

Additionally, he's answering questions, giving reads, posting, etc. No, I think those things would be hard for him to do--perhaps triggering the sort of cluelessness Jimm is talking about--if he were scum, Galzria's points about M-III notwithstanding.

Defends mcmc. From my perspective I was scum with him in newbie mafia and I think his play here was somewhat similar to his play in newbie mafia, so I don't agree with the meta argument. also robz has said he wouldn't be using meta arguments as much this game.

@Galz, while it seems to me that we've been reading this really differently, too, if your top 4 are Mcmc, Jimm, shraeye, and Cuzz... we aren't so different after all. I'm unpersuaded on Mcmc, in the middle on shraeye, suspicious of Jimm, and if this defensive thing turns out be accurate, also suspicious of Cuzz.

The big thing we disagree on is Eevee. (Because I'm trying to read him, whereas you are trying to buddy him for auto-towncred in his eyes. Don't even try to deny it.)

He's responding to a big post by galz. interestingly galz lists mcmc in his would-lynch thing. Anyway, they seem to disagree a fair bit, especially on eevee. Robz being a partner with galz+mcmc doesn't seem so fitting anymore.

Oh, good catch, I glossed right over that. Vote: Mcmcsalot

If mcmc is his partner him "glossing" over it makes sense. Sounds like he wants to get on the wagon early. Could also be interpreted as towny. Worth note at least.

Glooble is scummy and not super helpful but his defense was really genuine so I actually do think he's town, strangely enough. So, big townread there for now. Jimm is in the townzone for doing so much hard work, and at this stage of the game, I have to take that as indication of a town player. Galzria is on the scummier side for being like a complete non-factor this day. Mcmcsalot looks worse as the day goes on, but he wouldn't be my top choice. I think I have to trust my initial read on him for now.

Still only slight scumreads on the two MU, which is the safest position for him if he's scum. wrong about glooble. Seems like he flipped sides on Jimmmmm.

And yet...Cuzz is still unlynchable.

No he's not.

Vote: Cuzz

this is essentially the hammer, because ash stated intent to hammer as soon as he was at L-1, for whatever reason. Robz doesn't really explain this, but it was probably just to get a lynch through. Galz is also on-wagon, mcmc is not. munch munch and glooble are too. robz was also on the shraeye quickwagon.
I am going to pay more attention to his interactions with munch/glooble, because Yuma asked me to and not much will come from his interactions with mcmc once robz has claimed.
D2

This is very frustrating, I did not announce intent post twice and go to bed. I announced intent, came back a few hours later expecting to find at most one page of new things, an answer to the question that had still been out there and I would hammer. I instead came back to 6 pages and a mini wagon on a second player, i believe cuzz was not even a L-1 anymore(will check this when im not on movile)So I decided wow maybe lynching cuzz isn't the right idea anymore, I couldn't put my vote down untill I read the 6 new pages which I was not planning on nor wanted to do 7 hours before waking up for class, so I went to bed. Again expecting to wake up to a few more posts, I would read everything and post my thoughts which would have included a vote for cuzz. Instead I once agai woke up to a surprise, thread was locked and cuzz had been hammered.
In summary please stop saying I posted and went to bed as though I didn't care about the cuzz lynch, the game exploded in the few hours I was gone, this is not a blitz game and we were not at deadline.

Does anyone dispute that this is a perfectly satisfactory answer? At least for Mcmc's hammer not coming... I mean, he's exactly right here the timeframe of it, because I was very active that day and I was around when he said he would hammer and I was still around late at night when he reappeared in the middle of shraeye's mini-wagon. He couldn't even hammer then, since Cuzz wasn't L-1. It was really late at night, I don't think he had a responsibility to stay on and wait it out or even contribute, we weren't at deadline.

He defended mcmc a fair bit D2 before he claimed, which I guess supports his claim being true. He said he had a reason to think shraeye was scum but wasn't going to say it yet. I can't find where he says it. He also talks about munch a fair bit.

Okay, I do think the Mcmc lynch is a mistake. I am a 1-shot Tracker. Last night, I tracked mcmcsalot. He took no action. I think this makes him significantly less likely to be scum, given what we know already.

FWIW, I have some (disastrous) experience as a Tracker (in M-XII, where I epic fail at it), but I still think my psychology for picking who to track was pretty much on in that game, so I stuck with it. I don't want to track the obvious people, because the obvious people aren't going to kill anyone (because they expect the tracker to be watching them). This is mafia 101, even in games without a tracker for some reason the less suspicious partner does the kill (Galz always did the kill in M-II; I was more suspicious, even though it didn't matter). So I was not going to track the people who came under heavy suspicion yesterday, which includes shraeye, Jimm, and Eevee basically. I was never going to track Galzria because he's just too obvious a person anyway, and there's always that likelihood he gets nightkilled just for being Galzria--which I bet is what happened here; I doubt a scum faction really thought they were shooting scum in Galz. So I wanted to pick someone who I thought could be scum, but who didn't know that I thought they could be scum. Like, Glooble and Dsell I really didn't think were scum, so I wasn't picking them. Also, just from what I know about my brother, he's like a really gung-ho guy (he posted his phone number in blitz whatever for goodness sake, so people could tell him when the lynch was happening), and it seemed reasonable if he was on a scumfaction he'd be likely to be the one taking the shot, just because he wanted to, in addition to everything else.

Well, he didn't do anything. I've thought about this a lot; this means he's probably not scum, right? If he were scum, and he were on Galzria's team, well, Galz is the rolecop, and it's pretty likely Galz can't take the shot AND rolecop someone, so unless it's a three person team, Mcmc takes the shot there. If Mcmc were SK, he has to take the shot. Of course there's a perfectly plausible scenario where Mcmc is on some other team, and for whatever reason was not the person who took the shot.

But anyway, I think we'd have to be PRETTY SURE to lynch him, since mathematically it seems to me like his odds of scum are much, much lower, right? I wouldn't bring this up if I thought it was a slamdunk case, but it's not a slamdunk case and from where I am standing it is the least likely lynch to hit scum.

claim post! midway through D2. re-reading it, it sounds genuine to me, as have his most of his posts D6. I really can't find much more to analyze in this post, but you should all read it carefully to decide if you think it is a real claim.

vote: ashersky

For this:

I will not put my name to a shraeye lynch. It feels too reactive and way too obvious. I really don't think scum shraeye would be so sure of himself as he pushed for a lynch. When you drive a wagon as hard as that, you're taking a huge risk that the heat is going to fall on you if you're wrong, and that's a risk town is much more likely to take than scum. It just doesn't add up for me.

This reasoning is good.  We should push for a separate lynch and see where we go.  Mcmc is the most likely candidate, with I think everyone but Robz supporting or okay with it.

vote: mcmcsalot

Agreeing with Glooble that I'm not being like scumshraeye.

Then immediately reverting to me, because I'm the most likely candidate.

unvote based on Robz's new info.

Back to vote: shraeye as our most likely candidate, our most informative flip, and my second highest scum read (after Eevee, who no one seems to want to lynch).

Woah, this is a huge contradiction, Glooble.

I don't see the contradiction here, but still, either bussing, or not maquis. (duh)

Oops, nevermind. I read Glooble as saying he opposed shraeye lynch, and then later saying shraeye was his second choice... but the second statement was ash. Forget it!

could he have done that on purpose? Could be he decided to bus, then realized his bussing was wrong...

Yeah. It's just going to be Eevee or no one, now.

(Of course I can see it: "You've lynched Eevee, the Town-Doctor/Jailkeeper/Vigilante/Neighborizer.")

Well, there's nothing else to do, and he is a scumread.

Vote: Eevee

This feels weird, I guess I almost never actually cast hammer votes. Well anyway, here we go.

Hammers eevee. He had said he was willing to do this for quite some time. However, he was also not against a shraeye, liopoil, or munch lynch. If he's MU of course he's okay with those lynches. If he's maquis then he included munch to distance himself from him, since munch wasn't going to be lynched. Overall I think this is a scummy post.

His body is found stuffed into an ore processing shaft with a phaser wound in his back.  The autopsy finds he was also poisoned, strangely.

The good news, though, is no one else died last night. The bad news is that shraeye was killed. He was Jake Sisko, Station-aligned Innocent Child.

phasered and poisoned. I think he was almost certainly doublekilled, which means all five scum were okay with shraeye dying. robz on either team had a scumread of sorts on shraeye, so killing shraeye does make sense. Glooble might have blocked the MU kill I guess...

D3

To me, this just feels like m-xvi, where all my reads were wrong, day after day after day.

A lot of people have read this as scummy, namely Yuma I think. But really, he has had bad reads. eevee, cuzz, shraeye, mcmc to name a few, and of course he was absolutely certain I was scum. these reads seem to be a little bit TOO blatantly wrong for him to be scum. Also I especially think he can't be maquis, because if he was maquis he knew I was town as soon as theorel claimed.

I feel like waving some of my reads. Munch specifically. With shraeye being town, I don't think it's fair to munch that I keep to the evidence that points to him next. I've just been very wrong.

Ashersky and Glooble, I may have gone too far toward saying they are definitely town. I still think they are town though.

Mcmc is a night evidence based read, so that would remains for now.

states not-suspicion on the three people who were alive then that we know are scum. But he has good reason for the mcmc read.

Still would lynch Ashersky but Vote: Robz.  I have very particular people I'm interested in whether or not they will jump on this case.

Ridiculous. I have repeatedly asked you why you are suspicious of me--you keep alluding to evidence without actually presenting it, and I keep asking you to be explicit, and you keep ignoring me.

Other people are raising issues about me that I think have merit. I don't know what you're doing.

I'm confused as to what munch is doing as well. he's a neighbor!

So... ultimately, I am really torn between the two of them. They are neck and neck, though for totally different reasons. I guess I do ultimately lean Vote: Glooble. His contributions are less than liopoil's, and they lessen as time goes on.

Doesn't necessarily need to do this if he is glooble's partner. If he kept his vote on me I might have been lynched. Nothing has really fit with robz being maquis anyway.

--mcmc bomb claim--

Uh, I think you're logic there is off, and you claiming was not a good idea. Because scum are going to kill someone, and of all the people they could kill, it's best if they kill you. Imagine if both scum teams shot you: two dead scum! Now they'll just kill someone else instead.

I understand the instinct for survival, but that was probably a huge mistake.

Nevertheless, I believe your claim.

I agree that claiming was bad for town. It was good for scum!mcmc though, and I think I pointed this out at the time. I don't think mcmcpartner!robz points this out.

D4

The only conf. scum left is mcmc.

Did a breezy read-through of Galz to try and figure out who is his partner.

Galz defended Jimm early.

Said nobody was really lurking.

Said mcmc was slightly scummy.

Late in Day 1, said the four scummiest people were mcmc, jimm, shraeye, and cuzz. He ended up voting for Cuzz.

Says Theorel is town, and reiterates scum reads on jimm and mcmcsalot.

That's everything from him.

I also looked to see who voted for him, and not one person ever did (except me, jokingly, in RVS).

The part I bolded is I think maybe a big clue, because half those people are dead town. Now, does Galz put his scummate in this group? I'd think he might. Jimm or mcmc. He mentions that pair again, too. There's a case to be made that one of these people would be his partner. Since I don't think it's mcmc because of the tracking, that would make me think of Jimm as a top suspect to be Galz's partner.

Of course, it could just be that Galz exempted his partner from placement on his own suspicion list.

This sounds like a town post to me. He was right about the Jimmmmm-mcmc thing. We really should have seen this and lynched mcmc D4 instead of Dsell. I mean, I was probably a better lynch than Dsell...

We have <Robz, yuma, Jimm, mcmcsalot, Dsell> where exactly 1 or 2 of those people are scum.

We have <liopoil> where exactly 1 of liopoil is scum.

Liopoil is scum. I guarantee it, 99%.

silly robz. This again points to him not being maquis because he would know that I am town. That combined with the tracker result claim makes me fairly confident that if he is scum, he is MU.

D5

Vote: mcmcsalot

Hammers mcmc. this was the main reason I had for suspecting robz. I thought it was likely a last minute bus-hammer. I also think that day might have been too short. A ton of the stuff we are discussing today should have been discussed then. I thought this vote was a bit of a 180, but he had mentioned several times that he thinks at this point that he thinks his tracker result doesn't hold as much weight anymore. Really, I don't actually see any really strong reason for suspecting Robz.

Nothing significant has happened regarding Robz being scum D6, but his posts have read townier today then before, just on vibes.

So, after the mcmc flip I was actually fairly sure it was robz. Now I'm not really seeing it as much. I feel it's probably Yuma now, but I really never have given him a very close look. Hopefully will get to reading him soon.

Jimmmmm:

This may be true in general but I just want to emphasize this now: do not lynch me without giving me a chance to claim. If at any point in the game you want to put me on even L - 1, instead, announce your intent to do so and at my next availability I will claim. I will be pissed if you lynch me while I'm away.

his second post of the game. If Jimmmmm isn't beloved then he was planning that from the very beginning, for some odd reason.

Also, FWIW, the "Don't put me on L - 1" thing was just a safety net. Just don't lynch me before I've claimed.

Sort of denies being hated. Further evidence he knows exactly what he is going to claim. I really think he has to be beloved.

I also agree with Robz that it seems a bit strange that you wouldn't remember what the wording was. For me, at least, I saw "Station-Aligned", and it took me a moment to realise that couldn't mean anything other than the equivalent to Town. I even checked the OP to see if it was there, and there were enough "station"s to make it obvious that Station meant Town. If the PM said "You're Town (which btw we're calling Station-Aligned)" then you could just see the Town and move on, but because Town wasn't mentioned, you had to see Station-Aligned and interpret that as Town, which I feel makes it harder to forget at least the Station part.

Two ways to read this. Town sympathizing with eevee, or scum trying very hard to get towncred by making up a whole story.

Vote for me if you think I'm scum, and we'll go from there. I actually don't think it's good for Town for us to discuss this (that is, my request not to lynch me before giving me a chance to claim) any further, and I was hoping not to have to claim until at least day 2 or 3.

Pro-town. If he is scum-beloved then I think Jimmmmm WANTS to claim, because it make him less likely to be lynched. Does it make him more likely to be NKed?

but could be worse - I could have had time to answer and clear myself before Joth stepped in

Fwiw, even if I got here before Joth, I wouldnt have answered because it would have felt like a very unfair way to gain a lot of town cred.

These statements seem to be a contradiction.

The beginning of the whole contradiction case thing. It's a nice catch, while incorrect. Not sure if it's scummy or not.

His caution against lynching him when he didn't have a single vote on him rad extremely scummy to me.

If/when the time came, I just wanted something to refer back to so that my claim wouldn't look like it came out of left field.

The interesting thing here is that he is responding to GLOOBLE, who, if Jimmmmm is scum, is his teammate. He actually has a lot of interactions with glooble and munch D1, which Yuma highlighted earlier. They seem to be casting quite a bit of suspicion on each other for D1. D1 there was 15 people, it was chaotic. Bussing seems like a bad idea, because nobody is going to notice anything when there are 15 people.

You know what I'm happy to give Galz a pass for today, for a couple of reasons:
I totally get that he's overloaded.
If he's Town, we want him alive.
If he's scum, word on the street is he's easy to catch out, so hopefully we should be able to do that on a later day.

Of course, his analysis is still appreciated.

If jimmmmm is scum he NKed galz N1. does this post fit?

I just thought of something. What if eevee vigged galzria?? he had a scumread on him the whole way. I think it's possible.

Re-read Glooble as promised. There's really not much there. Does anyone have any thoughts other than LALL and "This could be scum Glooble (but it could also be Town Glooble)"? The one thing that stood out to me was this:

I'm endeavoring not to post completely contentlessly. If I have an observation I think is helpful to the town. If I don't, then I'm just making noise. In other words, if possible I'd like to actually help fond scum, but barring that ill settle for not making a lot of distracting noise.

I think if he's Town, then this is going about things the wrong way. Instead of "I don't have many good thoughts, so I'll help Town by staying quiet," it should be "I'm going to come up with as many good, helpful thoughts as I can and post those."

On the other hand, if he's scum, this seems like it could be a way to excuse his lurking.

For now, I'm happy to Vote: Glooble to try to get some helpful thoughts out of him.

Again, seems a bit harsh for D1, when there as actually a fair chance of us lynching glooble.

Holy crap. Cuzz is offline. He was in this thread, and now he's gone.

Announcing intent to hammer in ~10 mins if Cuzz hasn't posted by then.

10 minutes later cuzz hadn't posted and Jimmmmm never hammered. Mcmc did something similar and he was scum.

One more note: everyone in this game has exactly one role, except for Jimmmmm. He claimed last, so he knew this. If he is scum, there is no way he has two roles. This is because he would be maquis. Maquis would have three members, as opposed to only two on the MU. Joth would not give someone on the team with more members an additional role to balance the game. Therefore he has only one role, and it seems more than likely that this role is beloved. If he is beloved he isn't a roleblocker, and so Yuma must be scum. They can't both be scum, therefore Jimmm is town.

There are a lot of assumptions in the above note, but it seems strong.  Many of the posts I quoted read towny to me too. So I have a townread on Jimmmmm.

I get the case on Glooble, and I think it has merit, especially considering we've been lynching more vocal players, and they end up being Town. Glooble has played a fairly "safe" game, although has started contributing more reads. I guess I would put Glooble down as slightly scummy for now, and keep my eye on him.

this one actually fits with him being maquis.

I re-read Glooble, and as much as I wanted him to be scummy so that I could feel good about supporting the lynch of someone who's not me, I just didn't. His lurking seems like genuine busyness (although I could be more sympathetic than most to that given how little time I've seemed to have to play Mafia lately), and when he has been posting, he just read like a Townie who wants to contribute but is a little lost at times from being a bit behind. And unless there's something I missed, I haven't found any of the arguments on him terribly convincing either. So while I'd obviously prefer his lynch than mine, he doesn't look like a great candidate to me.
But we obviously need to decide on someone before deadline, preferably before a soft deadline. So I don't know. I think I should take a closer look at yuma and Munch.

This one fits too. although, he mentions munch at the end...

Okay, I re-read lio for an alternative to Glooble. While he hasn't said anything in particular to make me think he's scum, he seems to have played a very safe game, not putting himself out there terribly much. Seeing as though the loud talkers all seem to be flipping Town, it seems likely that there is scum in this game who is trying not to be controversial. So while there's no one in particular who I think has a very high chance of being scum, I will Vote: liopoil since I think he has more chance of flipping scum than Glooble.
Of course, I'd rather lynch Glooble than no one, so if they're our only choices I'd be willing to hammer.

and this one. Interesting. I mean, I'm town but my interactions fit with glooble/munch too.

I think I see the lio/Glooble argument. When I have time I'll have to go back and have another look. However I'm not sure I like the assumption that one of me and lio must be scum. From my point of view, that's pretty close to betting the game on lio being scum.

I think no one else should claim until theo gets back to lead it.

Sorry for the delay, just got home from work. I logged on a couple of times to see what was happening, but didn't get time to post.

I am a Beloved Princess.

checks PM

I am Vadek Bareil Antos, so I guess that makes me a Beloved Alien Man-Princess. That means that if I am mislynched, the Bajorans on the Station, whoever they are, will spend the next day mourning for me, which will shut down the Station and skip a Day. For some reason those bastards don't care if I'm killed during the night.

I realise this could be seen as an aggressive scum claim - "I dare you to lynch me!" - and for most of the time between getting my PM and starting day 1 I was planning to claim almost immediately so it didn't appear to be a desperate attempt to save myself. But I realised that would make me a target for Vigs and not a target for scum, so I said what I said to try to reverse that and maybe draw a scum kill. I guess they're too smart for me though, because here I am.

PPE: ^I went to post this at about 4pm but then discovered my internet was no longer working, then a friend came over to play Dominion, then I went out and I'm finally home and it's past midnight. So again, sorry for the delay.

Also, I a tidbit of information that could be useful: during day 1, jo was worried that the game was unbalanced against Town. Because of this, I also acquired X-shot Doctor.

If Jimmmmm had any shots left I think he wouldn't have just added it on as an afterthought. When Jimmmmm softclaimed it D1 for all he knew there might be a real BP (if he was going to fakeclaim). For some reason I'm just feel like his claim is legit. If he is BP then he is town.

He has a bunch of analysis of a glooble-munch-liopoil team. He doesn't actually really support it, which would make sense as maquis because he knew I would flip town. Nothing he says in that analysis really points me in either direction in terms of him being partners with them though.

I think I did all the quoting right. Anyway, I'm going to read this huge post now. I feel like I've forgotten a lot of the stuff about Jimmmmm though and should take another look at him.

[Jimmmmm]

Well maybe, but remember that if I'm scum, I'm really stupid.

[Robz888]

Well maybe, but remember that if I'm scum, I'm really stupid.

As long as we're making statements like this, remember that if I'm the last scum, I purposely eschewed winning easily in favor of maybe winning using a line of argument that was going to be open to the obvious criticism of "well, you did that so you could say that."

[liopoil]

Robz, I really doubt that you would have won easily. Jimmmmm's point about only one person dying D4 is really quite good.

[Robz888]

Robz, I really doubt that you would have won easily. Jimmmmm's point about only one person dying D4 is really quite good.

I would have had a much easier time of it than this.

[yuma]

Well maybe, but remember that if I'm scum, I'm really stupid.

As long as we're making statements like this, remember that if I'm the last scum, I purposely eschewed winning easily in favor of maybe winning using a line of argument that was going to be open to the obvious criticism of "well, you did that so you could say that."

You keep saying that but it just isn't true. And we haven't even brought up a point that I just realized in that ash had a town read on you before mcmc's alignment was known. We don't know what his read on you would have been after obtaining this knowledge. In all likelyhood it would have caused him to find you more scummy since it has done that to everyone else. This idea that you just would have coasted to victory is based off prior information w/o taking into consideration new events and is purely speculative. But it is what you keep coming back to again and again.