Dominion Strategy Forum
Miscellaneous => Forum Games => Mafia Game Threads => Topic started by: faust on April 18, 2017, 08:48:38 am
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Welcome to M99: Mathia!
Mod: faust, comod: schadd
This is a semi-open setup for 11 players.
Players:
1. Witherweaver
2. Roadrunner7671
3. Dylan32
4. Joseph2302
5. Robz888
6. Jimmmmm
7. SpaceAnemone
8. gkrieg13
9. Awaclus
10. LaLight
11. JaketheBaseballGod22
Spectators tagged: AndrewisFTTW, ashersky, liopoil
Day starts/ends: Day 1 start (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17194.msg690452#msg690452)
General rules
Changes to the usual rule sets are marked in olive.
The Golden Rule:
Please remember that this is a game and your main objective is to have fun! Be considerate of each other, don’t get personal, and enjoy the game. Please read The Civility Pledge (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=7695.0) before signing up for any mafia game on this site. If you have not /pledged there, you cannot play. Excessive personal attacks or uncivil behavior may be dealt with by modifiers or modkills.
1. General Gameplay and Etiquette:
1. You may not quote information (either real or fabricated) from any game-related source other than the thread you are posting in. This means no quotes from PMs and no quotes from QTs in the main thread or in another QT. Paraphrasing is acceptable. If you are unsure whether a post is legal, please ask the moderator before posting.
2. There is to be NO personal communication outside of the forum postings and the QTs specifically designed for this purpose.
3. As a general rule you should aim for one post every 24 hours, minimum, to keep the game moving.
2. Voting, Deadlines, and Player Death:
1. Day phases will last 7 days, Night lasts at least 36 hours.
2. A simple majority (rounded up) of all living members must agree on one person for a lynch to occur prior to deadline.
3. Once you have reached a simple majority no further unvoting will change someone’s fate. Further votes will also be ignored.
4. Once a player is lynched the game enters twilight until the mod locks the thread; all players including the one who was lynched may continue to post during twilight.
5. If the deadline is hit without a player reaching the majority of votes, there will be no lynch.
6. Please submit votes as: Vote: PlayerName. Votes will NOT be counted if they are not bold or do not follow this syntax! Obvious abbreviations or nicknames will be counted so long as they are unambiguous.
7. Please submit vote revocations Unvote. Unvotes are not necessary before changing votes.
8. You may Vote: No Lynch - a simple majority of these vote types are required to send the game to Night phase without a lynch.
9. If the game goes on for 3 days and 3 nights without a lynch or night kill, town wins.
10. Once you are killed (either via lynch or night kill) you may no longer post in the game or in Quicktopics. This means that you do not even get a “Bah” post. The dead in this game are silent.
11. If the thread is locked, you may not post. Threads can be locked for various reasons, but no matter what the reason, you may not post. The mod may forget to lock the thread, but if they say it is locked, it is still locked.
3. Miscellaneous/Mechanics:
1. Bold, olive text is reserved for the mod. No invisible/small text is allowed, nor is cryptography.
2. If you have an issue/problem with the game, please discuss this in your role QT. Do not post issues/complaints in the game thread.
3. The Mods may make mistakes - please point out any mistakes gently. Mistakes will be corrected where possible, but sometimes mistakes are made that cannot be reversed. These will stand as final to be commiserated over after the game.
4. Please bold all requests to the Mods so that they don’t get missed.
5. Prods of missing players will be issued upon request after 24 hours of no activity. A prodded player has 48 hours to respond or risks replacement. A player who has been prodded 2 times is subject to replacement under rule 3.9 without further notice.
6. Please do not discuss ongoing games, it can unintentionally affect the other game. Do not discuss this game in any thread that is not directly related to it.
7. Rule violations will be dealt with according to their severity, which may include modkill(s) if needed.
8. If you anticipate being unavailable for more than a 48-hour period please post a notice to that effect in the thread. Treat this game as a commitment. Be considerate – don’t leave us hanging. Players who fail to post for 48 hours without an announcement, or fail to post for 24 hours repeatedly, risk being subject to replacement and/or being modkilled without further notice.
9. Players who discover they are too busy to play in a game or want to leave the game for civility issues are not allowed to officially /out in the thread. A request to /out must only be done via a post in the role QT. Please do not use this as a manipulation technique. (Note players may continue to threaten to /out or imply that they might as long as it does not include an official request). Requests to /out are final once submitted. There will be no /outing and then /inning back into the game so make sure that when you /out you have thought it through and really want to do it. Players that can't be replaced will simply be mod-killed. Whether your request to /out will lead to replacement or a modkill is up to the mod's discretion.
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Setup:
This game has 11 players, of which 2 are Mafia Goons and 1 is a Mafia Traitor, the rest are town.
At the beginning of the game, a random maximal matching will be chosen for the following bipartite graph:
(https://s28.postimg.org/3pubb4jd9/Mathia.png)
Any vertices that are part of the maximal matching will be added as roles to the game. The lefthand roles will be added as town roles, and righthand roles will be mafia roles. Roleblocker and 2-shot Ninja will replace a Mafia Goon each, the 1-shot Vigilante will be an addition for the Traitor. The remaining spots will be filled with Vanilla Townies.
This is the randomization process in some more detail:
1. I will randomly select one of the roles listed above that has not yet been selected and has at least one connection to another role that has not yet been selected. All available options are equally likely. If no such role exists, skip to step 4.
2. I will randomly select one role that has not yet been selected from all roles connected to the role selected in step 1.
3. Both roles from step 1 and 2 are now added to the pool of already selected roles. Now, continue at step 1.
4. All selected roles are added to the game.
[Note: The graph is created in such a way that no moe than six roles can be selected by this process.]
Additional notes:
- If Masons is selected, there will be 2 Masons.
- The 1-shot Bulletproofer selects a target once, at night. The targeted player will receive a passive 1-shot Bulletproof shot. The shot may be used in the same night.
- The Traitor never knows the other mafia players. They will be converted to a standard Mafia Goon if all their partners are dead. If this happens, they lose their Vigilante shot if they had one. The Mafia targeting the Traitor will also result in conversion, with the same effects.
- All players have an assigned flavor name that is hidden to them and will be revealed upon death.
- Only town PRs and the Traitor will have individual QTs.
NIght action Resolution:
In case of conflicting night actions, actions will be resolved in this order:
1. 1-shot Bulletproofer
2. Roleblocker
3. Jailkeeper
4. 1-shot Vigilante Traitor
5. Vigilante
6. Mafia nightkill
7. Watcher
Sample PMs (QTs use a lighter green for the roles):
Welcome to M99: Mathia!
You are a Vanilla Townie!
You have no special powers beyond your vote.
You win iff at any point in the game, the following conditions are met simultaneously:
1. All Mafia-aligned players are dead.
2. At least one player is alive.
Welcome to M99: Mathia!
You are the Watcher!
Each night, you may target a player. At the end of the night, you will know the set of players that targeted your target the same night.
You win iff at any point in the game, the following conditions are met simultaneously:
1. All Mafia-aligned players are dead.
2. At least one player is alive.
Welcome to M99: Mathia!
You are the Jailkeeper!
Each night, you may target a player. Any action your target takes the same night will fail. A single killing action targeting your target will fail.
You win iff at any point in the game, the following conditions are met simultaneously:
1. All Mafia-aligned players are dead.
2. At least one player is alive.
Welcome to M99: Mathia!
You are a Mason!
Each night, as long as both of you are alive, you may talk to your partner [player name] here: [QT link]. They are confirmed as town-aligned to you.
You win iff at any point in the game, the following conditions are met simultaneously:
1. All Mafia-aligned players are dead.
2. At least one player is alive.
Welcome to M99: Mathia!
You are the 1-shot Bulletproofer!
Once in the game, at night, you may target another player. The first time that player is targeted by a killing action form then on, it will fail.
You win iff at any point in the game, the following conditions are met simultaneously:
1. All Mafia-aligned players are dead.
2. At least one player is alive.
Welcome to M99: Mathia!
You are the Vigilante!
Each night, you may target a player. At the end of the night, that player will die.
You win iff at any point in the game, the following conditions are met simultaneously:
1. All Mafia-aligned players are dead.
2. At least one player is alive.
Welcome to M99: Mathia!
You are a Mafia Goon!
You may talk to your living partners (excluding an unrecruited Traitor) here: [QT link]. Each night, one of you may perform the factional kill.
You win iff at any point in the game, either of these conditions is met:
1. All town-aligned players are dead.
2. No player has died for two full day/night cycles.
Welcome to M99: Mathia!
You are the Mafia Traitor!
You will be converted into a Mafia Goon if you are targeted by the mafia nightkill, or if both your partners have died.
You win iff at any point in the game, either of these conditions is met:
1. All town-aligned players are dead.
2. No player has died for two full day/night cycles.
Welcome to M99: Mathia!
You are the Mafia Roleblocker!
Each night, you may target another player. Any action that player takes that night will fail.
You may talk to your living partners (excluding an unrecruited Traitor) here: [QT link]. Each night, one of you may perform the factional kill.
You win iff at any point in the game, either of these conditions is met:
1. All town-aligned players are dead.
2. No player has died for two full day/night cycles.
Welcome to M99: Mathia!
You are the Mafia 1-shot Vigilante Traitor!
Once in the game, at night, you may target another player. That player will die.
You will be converted into a Mafia Goon if you are targeted by the mafia nightkill, or if both your partners have died. If this happens, you will lose your Vigilante shot.
You win iff at any point in the game, either of these conditions is met:
1. All town-aligned players are dead.
2. No player has died for two full day/night cycles.
Welcome to M99: Mathia!
You are the Mafia 2-shot Ninja!
You may talk to your living partners (excluding an unrecruited Traitor) here: [QT link]. Each night, one of you may perform the factional kill.
Twice at night, if you perform your faction's kill, you may activate your power. If you do, the Watcher cannot detect your actions.
You win iff at any point in the game, either of these conditions is met:
1. All town-aligned players are dead.
2. No player has died for two full day/night cycles.
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/tag
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At the beginning of the game, a random maximal matching will be chosen for the following bipartite graph:
Any vertices that a part of the maximal matching will be added as roles to the game.
Just so you know, this is completely incomprehensible to me!
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At the beginning of the game, a random maximal matching will be chosen for the following bipartite graph:
Any vertices that a part of the maximal matching will be added as roles to the game.
Just so you know, this is completely incomprehensible to me!
Just going with the flavor for now ;) There will be a less math-slang-y explanation soon.
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I suppose I have to
\in
Going to be on vacation for the next two weeks, but I'm guessing it won't start for a little bit.
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/tag
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At the beginning of the game, a random maximal matching will be chosen for the following bipartite graph:
Any vertices that a part of the maximal matching will be added as roles to the game.
Just so you know, this is completely incomprehensible to me!
Just going with the flavor for now ;) There will be a less math-slang-y explanation soon.
You also need to explain how the random matching is chosen. Are all maximal matchings equally likely? Or do you randomly add edges until you get a maximal matching?
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/comod if want
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as we learned in M90 we have good timezone coverage together
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also incidentally i initially figured mathia was an anime or something
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/in
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/tag
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/interested.
Maybe double check with me before starting this up? Not completely sure I can fully commit to this.
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/tag for now
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/comod if want
Sure, thanks.
There is no mod QT so far, but I will send it as soon as I get around to creating it.
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/tag
Math is not my thing. What's the maximum number of roles possible? Is it all of them depending on the random selection thing?
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Actually, I'm also /interested. Depending on when this starts, can you double check with me before it starts though?
I don't want to be an inactive pain like last game I played
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I think I get it now, so I should probably /in
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For reference:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matching_(graph_theory)
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/tag
Math is not my thing. What's the maximum number of roles possible? Is it all of them depending on the random selection thing?
several of the colored lines are selected such that:
-no two of the selected lines are connected to the same role
-if you added any more lines, it would always break the first rule
the minimum is 2 town / 2 scum roles & the max is 3/3
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/tag. Probably in as long as this doesn't start immediately.
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in
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Yay, mathsy stuff!
Very much /in :-)
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/in
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/ion
EDIT: or /in, rather.
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alright, I was an idiot in bad mood, now i am an idiot /in good mood :)
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I keep thinking this sounds like "mafia" but said by someone with a speech impediment.
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/tag
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So only 1 spot left now. TWM, Joseph, could you play if this starts soonish?
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I would prefer avoiding being in two games for an extended period, I'll have to out if we are starting soon. Sorry!
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So only 1 spot left now. TWM, Joseph, could you play if this starts soonish?
Oh wow! I guess, sure. Havent been in two games at once before.
Preferably after the weekend, though.
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So only 1 spot left now. TWM, Joseph, could you play if this starts soonish?
Yes, although I'm V/LA from 28/4 - 1/5
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/Tag
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/hammer
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/hammer
10 + 1 = 10
Or rather S \cup {x} = S
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/hammer
10 + 1 = 10
Or rather S \cup {x} = S
So you realised it was a fakehammer :(
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I guess I'll /in
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Eevee is removed from signups for now, so there's a spot left.
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/tag
Would love to play this :/
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/in if there's still a spot.
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Would everyone hate me if I actually skip out of this? I am looking at my work schedule and it's gets pretty busy in the next few weeks.
Does Calamitas want my spot?
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Would everyone hate me if I actually skip out of this? I am looking at my work schedule and it's gets pretty busy in the next few weeks.
Does Calamitas want my spot?
I don't. Cannot play until 5th of May, have my A-level exams for the next two weeks :/
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Ok. Anyone else want it?
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Ok. Anyone else want it?
I removed you from signups for now.
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I'll /in
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Night 0 starts now and lasts 24 hours. Everyone is requested to confirm via PM or QT (if applicable).
Thread locked except for tags.
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schadd and faust sat together in the small university room, staring at the board. It was written all over with various formulas; in the top left corner, someone drew a rectangle around a statement.
"Have you made any progress?", faust asked.
"nope. i tried a translation into a topological setting, but that did not work. then i wondered if there may be an elementary solution, but there is a step that just never works out."
"I know. This really shouldn't be that hard. Let's get some coffee and try to work it out together."
Day 1 begins!
Vote Count 1.0
Not Voting (11): Witherweaver, Roadrunner7671, Dylan32, Joseph2302, Robz888, Jimmmmm, SpaceAnemone, gkrieg13, Awaclus, LaLight, JaketheBaseballGod22
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 1 starts now and ends May 2 at 6:30 am forum time.
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Please take note of the following portion of setup information:
- Only town PRs and the Traitor will have individual QTs.
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hey guyz. I was trying to try to understand the setup. I have not really succeeded :( Though I wonder if it is a good idea to speak about it at all
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anyway, i am finally town again which really makes me happy.
vote: WW, happy to see you again!
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Let's talk about the setup! Vote: lalight
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Let's talk about the setup! Vote: lalight
You fraud, this is not a talk about the setup, that's a vote for me
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Let's talk about the setup! Vote: lalight
FoS: RR for voting obvtown
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Good afternoon/morning/otherTimeOfDay everyone :-)
Vote: Jimmmmm Have we played in the same game before?
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feels so good to be in a game again! And I am still not scumread by Awaclus!
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hey guyz. I was trying to try to understand the setup. I have not really succeeded :( Though I wonder if it is a good idea to speak about it at all
Vote: LaLight
I'm limited and unpredictable availability through the next two weeks.
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feels so good to be in a game again! And I am still not scumread by Awaclus!
Though feel free to lynch this guy in my semiabsence.
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So I think the setup is pretty simple: whatever PRs/scum PRs there are we follow the colored line(s).
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But it's weird that 1-shot bulletproofer and jailkeeper would be the same.
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feels so good to be in a game again! And I am still not scumread by Awaclus!
Though feel free to lynch this guy in my semiabsence.
hey, I was sincere
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Setup-wise, I'm happy to discuss stuff, especially if we do so early, agree whether or not a decent strategy suggests itself, and then move on.
The most important thing of note that isn't necessarily apparent from the graph faust posted is that we're always guaranteed a watcher, with scum always having an RB and a 1-shot vig traitor.
The most likely additions for town are a JK and a 1-shot BP -- I think it's around a 23% chance we have both of those. In half the cases where we have both, the mafia gets to know who the traitor is, and in the other half they get the 2-shot ninja instead. The two least-likely setups occur about 3% of the time each, and in those, we just get a vig, or just get masons, on top of the watcher (and scum gets nothing else).
I can post a breakdown of all 16 sets of roles, with associated likelihood of arriving in that setup, if that's useful? Is anyone else here setuppy enough to want to perform an independent check of my numbers?
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I'm the SK
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And Vote: Space
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hey guyz. I was trying to try to understand the setup. I have not really succeeded :( Though I wonder if it is a good idea to speak about it at all
All the lines in the picture have different colours. We get all the lines of 1 colour
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If you could break them down that eould be nice SA, after your brief analysis I am more confused!
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We get all the lines of 1 colour
This is a load of rubbish!
We get a subset of the lines (they're called edges in graphs, usually) faust has drawn, such that the edges he picks join distinct pairs of role-names (vertices), so that no name-vertex is connected to more than one other, and no more edges from his initial graph can be added without two or more edges meeting at the same name-vertex. The way he picks names to add into the set, and lines to go with them, is precisely described in the algorithm he quoted in the setup post.
The colours on the edges are coded according to what town role vertex they meet at the left of the bipartite graph.
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Aaaaahhhhh
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I can post a breakdown of all 16 sets of roles, with associated likelihood of arriving in that setup, if that's useful? Is anyone else here setuppy enough to want to perform an independent check of my numbers?
That would be useful, yes.
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hey guyz. I was trying to try to understand the setup. I have not really succeeded :( Though I wonder if it is a good idea to speak about it at all
It is probably a good idea to speak about it. If we don't speak about it here, scum can speak about it in their QT and that's super bad.
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hey guyz. I was trying to try to understand the setup. I have not really succeeded :( Though I wonder if it is a good idea to speak about it at all
It is probably a good idea to speak about it. If we don't speak about it here, scum can speak about it in their QT and that's super bad.
agreed 100%
@Space, your last setup post didnt help me... May you do it with examples step-by-step?
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If you could break them down that eould be nice SA, after your brief analysis I am more confused!
Sure.. see below :-) Note that this breakdown comes from a script I threw together when I first looked at the setup, that I haven't checked over since, so a cross-check of my numbers would be sensible if anyone wants to base anything else on them. The black number at the start of each row is the percentage chance of RNGing the particular configuration based on faust's algorithm.
11.27%: Watcher, Roleblocker, 1-shot Vigilante Traitor, Jailkeeper, 1-shot Bulletproofer, Mafia knows Traitor
11.27%: Watcher, Roleblocker, 1-shot Vigilante Traitor, Jailkeeper, 1-shot Bulletproofer, 2-shot Ninja
6.30%: Watcher, Roleblocker, 1-shot Vigilante Traitor, Masons, Vigilante, Mafia knows Traitor
6.30%: Watcher, Roleblocker, 1-shot Vigilante Traitor, Masons, Vigilante, 2-shot Ninja
5.97%: Watcher, Roleblocker, 1-shot Vigilante Traitor, Jailkeeper, Masons, Mafia knows Traitor
5.97%: Watcher, Roleblocker, 1-shot Vigilante Traitor, Masons, 1-shot Bulletproofer, Mafia knows Traitor
5.97%: Watcher, Roleblocker, 1-shot Vigilante Traitor, Jailkeeper, Masons, 2-shot Ninja
5.97%: Watcher, Roleblocker, 1-shot Vigilante Traitor, Masons, 1-shot Bulletproofer, 2-shot Ninja
5.97%: Watcher, Roleblocker, 1-shot Vigilante Traitor, Jailkeeper, Vigilante, Mafia knows Traitor
5.97%: Watcher, Roleblocker, 1-shot Vigilante Traitor, 1-shot Bulletproofer, Vigilante, Mafia knows Traitor
5.97%: Watcher, Roleblocker, 1-shot Vigilante Traitor, Jailkeeper, Vigilante, 2-shot Ninja
5.97%: Watcher, Roleblocker, 1-shot Vigilante Traitor, 1-shot Bulletproofer, Vigilante, 2-shot Ninja
5.56%: Watcher, Roleblocker, 1-shot Vigilante Traitor, Jailkeeper
5.56%: Watcher, Roleblocker, 1-shot Vigilante Traitor, 1-shot Bulletproofer
3.01%: Watcher, Roleblocker, 1-shot Vigilante Traitor, Masons
3.01%: Watcher, Roleblocker, 1-shot Vigilante Traitor, Vigilante
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Thanks, Space!
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thanks a lot, looks much better :)
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vote: WW
I like this setup so far
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V - E + F = 2
Vote Count 1.1
Witherweaver (2): LaLight, gkrieg13
LaLight (2): Roadrunner7671, Witherweaver
Jimmmmm (1): SpaceAnemone
SpaceAnemone (1): Joseph2302
Not Voting (6): Dylan32, Robz888, Jimmmmm, Awaclus, JaketheBaseballGod22
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 1 ends May 2 at 6:30 am forum time.
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Thanks, Space!
Thanks.
Apparently I just didn't know what a maximal matching was
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Thanks space.
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Vote: WW to make it a proper wagon.
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Vote: WW
Wagons are fun
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The guy's vla, what do you want to achieve with the wagon? vote: SA
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The guy's vla, what do you want to achieve with the wagon?
What do you not want to achieve with the wagon? Vote: WW
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The guy's vla, what do you want to achieve with the wagon?
What do you not want to achieve with the wagon? Vote: WW
1) mislynch
2) derphammer
3) pr lynch
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Why don't we want masons teo claim? Two ics who are the perfect targets for Watcher and JK
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Why don't we want masons teo claim? Two ics who are the perfect targets for Watcher and JK
So in RMM41, Ash, J Reggie on N1, and I (the scum team) literally never tried to kill the IC (gkrieg). It's just too likely to be targeted by a town PR that would out a scum or foil the kill to actually be worth it for scum, at least right off the bat. If the masons claim, the watcher/JK almost have to target them, which means scum has a very likely safe kill anywhere else. If there are masons, I don't think they should claim until they need to later.
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WW IS AT L1
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Vote: WW
Sorry. I lied about him being at L1, but I want my statement to be true.
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Well this is pretty pointless if WW is VLA. You know who isn't VLA? LL. Therefore:
Vote: LaLight
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RR is scum. I am ready to eat my tie on it. fully serious vote: RR
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Speaking of stuff, is it common practice for vigs to shoot N2? I can totally see myself making one too many joke and getting gunned down.
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Woo!
Vote: Robz
Always scum.
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anyway, i am finally town again which really makes me happy.
vote: WW, happy to see you again!
Actually serious Vote: LaLight
Scum is much more likely to say this than Town.
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Good afternoon/morning/otherTimeOfDay everyone :-)
Vote: Jimmmmm Have we played in the same game before?
I don't believe so. Can anemones survive in space?
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Speaking of stuff, is it common practice for vigs to shoot N2? I can totally see myself making one too many joke and getting gunned down.
Scummy Vote: RR maybe if you don't want to get shoot, don't make so may jokes.
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Speaking of stuff, is it common practice for vigs to shoot N2? I can totally see myself making one too many joke and getting gunned down.
Scummy Vote: RR maybe if you don't want to get shoot, don't make so may jokes.
And there's RR and Jake in this game. One of them must be scum I guessy
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Speaking of stuff, is it common practice for vigs to shoot N2? I can totally see myself making one too many joke and getting gunned down.
Scummy Vote: RR maybe if you don't want to get shoot, don't make so may jokes.
Here we go guys!
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Speaking of stuff, is it common practice for vigs to shoot N2? I can totally see myself making one too many joke and getting gunned down.
DON'T.
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Speaking of stuff, is it common practice for vigs to shoot N2? I can totally see myself making one too many joke and getting gunned down.
DON'T.
Don't shoot N2 or don't have fun?
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Speaking of stuff, is it common practice for vigs to shoot N2? I can totally see myself making one too many joke and getting gunned down.
DON'T.
Don't shoot N2 or don't have fun?
Literally everything about that post, I believe.
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Vote: LL
Non VLA Wagons
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Speaking of stuff, is it common practice for vigs to shoot N2? I can totally see myself making one too many joke and getting gunned down.
Why do you say things like this? :(
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Me getting a wagon immediately I'm D1 is becoming a thing. How big did it get?
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Speaking of stuff, is it common practice for vigs to shoot N2? I can totally see myself making one too many joke and getting gunned down.
Why do you say things like this? :(
Does the thought of me dying make you sad?
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Speaking of stuff, is it common practice for vigs to shoot N2? I can totally see myself making one too many joke and getting gunned down.
Why do you say things like this? :(
Does the thought of me dying make you sad?
I'll give you three guesses.
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Unvote
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Me getting a wagon immediately I'm D1 is becoming a thing. How big did it get?
L-1
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Speaking of stuff, is it common practice for vigs to shoot N2? I can totally see myself making one too many joke and getting gunned down.
Why do you say things like this? :(
Does the thought of me dying make you sad?
If I had a dayvig power, I'd shoot you now
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RR/Robz team is a wild guess
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Or RR is traitor. But he is clearly not town
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Or RR is traitor. But he is clearly not town
Dayvig: RR
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Hopefully he flips scum
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Vote: Joseph
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It would be such a RR play to claim traitor as the traitor then say it was obviously a joke. Hmmm, maybe I'm starting to see why jokes are scummy.
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Vote: RR
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It would be such a RR play to claim traitor as the traitor then say it was obviously a joke. Hmmm, maybe I'm starting to see why jokes are scummy.
You're scummy
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It would be such a RR play to claim traitor as the traitor then say it was obviously a joke. Hmmm, maybe I'm starting to see why jokes are scummy.
Last time someone breadcrumbed traitor early D1, it was gkrieg, and he was the traitor. Vote: RR
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Integral a to b (f (x) dx) = F(b) - F(a)
Vote Count 1.2
Witherweaver (2): gkrieg13, Joseph2302
LaLight (2): Witherweaver, Jimmmmm
Jimmmmm (1): SpaceAnemone
Roadrunner7671 (4): LaLight, JaketheBaseballGod22, Robz888, Dylan32
Joseph2302 (1): Awaclus
Not Voting (1): Roadrunner7671
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 1 ends May 2 at 6:30 am forum time.
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It would be such a RR play to claim traitor as the traitor then say it was obviously a joke. Hmmm, maybe I'm starting to see why jokes are scummy.
Last time someone breadcrumbed traitor early D1, it was gkrieg, and he was the traitor. Vote: RR
And the time before that, it was me + i was the traitor.
Vote: RR
L-1
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That is L-1 I love. Also I am like 90% sure it is not common "RR mislynch" but scum lynch.
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It would be such a RR play to claim traitor as the traitor then say it was obviously a joke. Hmmm, maybe I'm starting to see why jokes are scummy.
Last time someone breadcrumbed traitor early D1, it was gkrieg, and he was the traitor. Vote: RR
quote author=Joseph2302 link=topic=17194.msg690647#msg690647 date=1493217950]
It would be such a RR play to claim traitor as the traitor then say it was obviously a joke. Hmmm, maybe I'm starting to see why jokes are scummy.
Last time someone breadcrumbed traitor early D1, it was gkrieg, and he was the traitor. Vote: RR
And the time before that, it was me + i was the traitor.
Vote: RR
L-1
[/quote]
So why would he do the exact same thing that traitors have done two times in a row in the past?
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It would be such a RR play to claim traitor as the traitor then say it was obviously a joke. Hmmm, maybe I'm starting to see why jokes are scummy.
Last time someone breadcrumbed traitor early D1, it was gkrieg, and he was the traitor. Vote: RR
quote author=Joseph2302 link=topic=17194.msg690647#msg690647 date=1493217950]
It would be such a RR play to claim traitor as the traitor then say it was obviously a joke. Hmmm, maybe I'm starting to see why jokes are scummy.
Last time someone breadcrumbed traitor early D1, it was gkrieg, and he was the traitor. Vote: RR
And the time before that, it was me + i was the traitor.
Vote: RR
L-1
So why would he do the exact same thing that traitors have done two times in a row in the past?
[/quote]
Why wouldn't he? It's the way traitor seems to play this game
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Hammer it home someone!
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Quotefail.
It would be such a RR play to claim traitor as the traitor then say it was obviously a joke. Hmmm, maybe I'm starting to see why jokes are scummy.
Last time someone breadcrumbed traitor early D1, it was gkrieg, and he was the traitor. Vote: RR
It would be such a RR play to claim traitor as the traitor then say it was obviously a joke. Hmmm, maybe I'm starting to see why jokes are scummy.
Last time someone breadcrumbed traitor early D1, it was gkrieg, and he was the traitor. Vote: RR
And the time before that, it was me + i was the traitor.
Vote: RR
L-1
So why would he do the exact same thing that traitors have done two times in a row in the past?
-
It would be such a RR play to claim traitor as the traitor then say it was obviously a joke. Hmmm, maybe I'm starting to see why jokes are scummy.
Last time someone breadcrumbed traitor early D1, it was gkrieg, and he was the traitor. Vote: RR
quote author=Joseph2302 link=topic=17194.msg690647#msg690647 date=1493217950]
It would be such a RR play to claim traitor as the traitor then say it was obviously a joke. Hmmm, maybe I'm starting to see why jokes are scummy.
Last time someone breadcrumbed traitor early D1, it was gkrieg, and he was the traitor. Vote: RR
And the time before that, it was me + i was the traitor.
Vote: RR
L-1
So why would he do the exact same thing that traitors have done two times in a row in the past?
Why wouldn't he? It's the way traitor seems to play this game
[/quote]
Because you're already the traitor and we don't have 2.
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It would be such a RR play to claim traitor as the traitor then say it was obviously a joke. Hmmm, maybe I'm starting to see why jokes are scummy.
Last time someone breadcrumbed traitor early D1, it was gkrieg, and he was the traitor. Vote: RR
quote author=Joseph2302 link=topic=17194.msg690647#msg690647 date=1493217950]
It would be such a RR play to claim traitor as the traitor then say it was obviously a joke. Hmmm, maybe I'm starting to see why jokes are scummy.
Last time someone breadcrumbed traitor early D1, it was gkrieg, and he was the traitor. Vote: RR
And the time before that, it was me + i was the traitor.
Vote: RR
L-1
So why would he do the exact same thing that traitors have done two times in a row in the past?
[/quote]
This is a derphammer because of quote fail.
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It would be such a RR play to claim traitor as the traitor then say it was obviously a joke. Hmmm, maybe I'm starting to see why jokes are scummy.
Last time someone breadcrumbed traitor early D1, it was gkrieg, and he was the traitor. Vote: RR
quote author=Joseph2302 link=topic=17194.msg690647#msg690647 date=1493217950]
It would be such a RR play to claim traitor as the traitor then say it was obviously a joke. Hmmm, maybe I'm starting to see why jokes are scummy.
Last time someone breadcrumbed traitor early D1, it was gkrieg, and he was the traitor. Vote: RR
And the time before that, it was me + i was the traitor.
Vote: RR
L-1
So why would he do the exact same thing that traitors have done two times in a row in the past?
This is a derphammer because of quote fail.
[/quote]
Fuck. That's hilarious though.
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It would be such a RR play to claim traitor as the traitor then say it was obviously a joke. Hmmm, maybe I'm starting to see why jokes are scummy.
Last time someone breadcrumbed traitor early D1, it was gkrieg, and he was the traitor. Vote: RR
quote author=Joseph2302 link=topic=17194.msg690647#msg690647 date=1493217950]
It would be such a RR play to claim traitor as the traitor then say it was obviously a joke. Hmmm, maybe I'm starting to see why jokes are scummy.
Last time someone breadcrumbed traitor early D1, it was gkrieg, and he was the traitor. Vote: RR
And the time before that, it was me + i was the traitor.
Vote: RR
L-1
So why would he do the exact same thing that traitors have done two times in a row in the past?
This is a derphammer because of quote fail.
Fuck. That's hilarious though.
[/quote]
You clearly have some strange problems with quotes :)
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Wow that's was a quick day. RR actually looks like scum traitor to me.
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Wow that's was a quick day. RR actually looks like scum traitor to me.
So in case the mod actually doesn't count Awaclus's vote due to it really being a quote fail, you want to hammer away?
Also, I'm willing to bet that if RR is what we think and did what he did, he probably just didn't know that the two previous traitors (or two of the most recent ones to breadcrumb it anyway) had done the same thing and got lynched for it.
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How were there that many quote fails all in a row though? There were like 6ish it seemed like in a span of a dozen messages and not just by 1 person lol
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Wait what, someone hammered? Was not expecting that.....
PPE: 1
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Wait what, someone hammered? Was not expecting that.....
PPE: 1
Awaclus quoted the L-1 vote but quote failed so the vote wasn't actually in a quote block.
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Day 1 Final Vote Count
Witherweaver (1): gkrieg13
LaLight (2): Witherweaver, Jimmmmm
Jimmmmm (1): SpaceAnemone
Roadrunner7671 (6): LaLight, JaketheBaseballGod22, Robz888, Dylan32, Joseph2302, Awaclus
Not Voting (1): Roadrunner7671
With 11 alive, it took 6 to lynch.
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"Wait!", faust suddenly exclaimed. "I think I'm onto something. Excited, he walked towards the board, wiping old formulas away and sketching a proof.
"If we assume that an x exists with these properties..." He wrote down some properties. "We can plug that in here, take this to the other side, and then dividing out yields 0 > 0"
"not to be a party pooper", schadd responded, "but i think that you cannot just make that assumption 2. that x may not exist, but it doesn't really show the theorem, does it?"
Roadrunner7671 has been killed! They were Proof by contradiction, the Vigilante!
Night 1 starts now and lasts until April 28, 11:30 pm forum time.
THREAD LOCKED!
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"maybe", schadd suggested, "it's better to project everything onto a sphere. then we could apply the jordan curve theorem...."
"I don't think that we can extend our map to infinity though. See? If we approach infinity from the x-axis..." faust scribbled some lines of calculation on the board. "However, if we move on the parabola... wait, it's actually the same!"
"no it's not. you missed the minus signs over there."
Robz888 has been killed! They were the Jordan curve theorem, the Jailkeeper.
Witherweaver has been killed! They were a sign error, the Mafia 2-shot Ninja.
Day 2 begins!
Vote Count 2.0
Not Voting (8): Dylan32, Joseph2302, Jimmmmm, SpaceAnemone, gkrieg13, Awaclus, LaLight, JaketheBaseballGod22
With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 2 ends May the fifth at 3:30 am forum time.
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Lolwat
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Good job, Traitor!
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Double traitor now
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5.97%: Watcher, Roleblocker, 1-shot Vigilante Traitor, Jailkeeper, Vigilante, 2-shot Ninja
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If watcher by accident watched WW, that's practically gg.
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I don't know why, but i think that either both scum were off wagon, or the second one is Awaclus
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That leaves gkrieg, Jimmmmm, Space, Awa
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feels so good to be in a game again! And I am still not scumread by Awaclus!
Though feel free to lynch this guy in my semiabsence.
I am IC now
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Vote: WW
Wagons are fun
Bussing?
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The guy's vla, what do you want to achieve with the wagon?
What do you not want to achieve with the wagon? Vote: WW
Though this look more like bussing. Vote: Awaclus actually
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RR/Robz team is a wild guess
lol
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Vote: LaLight
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It would be such a RR play to claim traitor as the traitor then say it was obviously a joke. Hmmm, maybe I'm starting to see why jokes are scummy.
Last time someone breadcrumbed traitor early D1, it was gkrieg, and he was the traitor. Vote: RR
[HERE SHOULD BE A SQUARE BRACKET]quote author=Joseph2302 link=topic=17194.msg690647#msg690647 date=1493217950]
It would be such a RR play to claim traitor as the traitor then say it was obviously a joke. Hmmm, maybe I'm starting to see why jokes are scummy.
Last time someone breadcrumbed traitor early D1, it was gkrieg, and he was the traitor. Vote: RR
And the time before that, it was me + i was the traitor.
Vote: RR
L-1
So why would he do the exact same thing that traitors have done two times in a row in the past?
[/quote]
The thingg that distinguishes this post from other broken quotes is the lack of Square Bracket. It might be intentional.
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Vote: LaLight
What antitown thing did I do this time?
Finally, finally, finally you're voting for me and I am town so I can say you're wrong after the game. Though not gonna happen, cause you are scum.
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It would be such a RR play to claim traitor as the traitor then say it was obviously a joke. Hmmm, maybe I'm starting to see why jokes are scummy.
Last time someone breadcrumbed traitor early D1, it was gkrieg, and he was the traitor. Vote: RR
[HERE SHOULD BE A SQUARE BRACKET]quote author=Joseph2302 link=topic=17194.msg690647#msg690647 date=1493217950]
It would be such a RR play to claim traitor as the traitor then say it was obviously a joke. Hmmm, maybe I'm starting to see why jokes are scummy.
Last time someone breadcrumbed traitor early D1, it was gkrieg, and he was the traitor. Vote: RR
And the time before that, it was me + i was the traitor.
Vote: RR
L-1
So why would he do the exact same thing that traitors have done two times in a row in the past?
The thingg that distinguishes this post from other broken quotes is the lack of Square Bracket. It might be intentional.
[/quote]
It wasn't intentional. I was replying to Dylan, then Joseph posted his post and I deleted what I wrote to Dylan and wrote something else to address both of them at the same time. I must have deleted the square bracket by accident while I deleted the text.
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Vote: LaLight
What antitown thing did I do this time?
What antitown thing did you not do this time?
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It wasn't intentional. I was replying to Dylan, then Joseph posted his post and I deleted what I wrote to Dylan and wrote something else to address both of them at the same time. I must have deleted the square bracket by accident while I deleted the text.
See, the quote just keeps on being broken no matter how many people reply to it. That sort of stuff can super easily go unnoticed and it did.
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Vote: LaLight
What antitown thing did I do this time?
What antitown thing did you not do this time?
Do you want a list?
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Vote: LaLight
What antitown thing did I do this time?
What antitown thing did you not do this time?
Do you want a list?
Sure.
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1) I have not, in any way, told what my role is.
2) I have not, in any way, told what other people roles are if I had known them for any reasons.
3) I have not, in any way, derailed the serious conversations into the fluff.
4) I have not, in any way, killed a person who is town, unregarding if I can do the killing.
5) I have not, in any way, been behaving scummy so town gets distracted on me.
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So you admit that you have done all the other anti-town things.
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So you admit that you have done all the other anti-town things.
Oh, you! I just couldn't come up with anything else :(
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Funny fact: i do like your play when I am town
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Funny fact: i do like your play when I am town
I guess that means you don't like it here.
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Funny fact: i do like your play when I am town
I guess that means you don't like it here.
Wrong guess. I like it now
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Funny fact: i do like your play when I am town
I guess that means you don't like it here.
Seriously, why this time?
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Funny fact: i do like your play when I am town
I guess that means you don't like it here.
Seriously, why this time?
Why what?
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Funny fact: i do like your play when I am town
I guess that means you don't like it here.
Seriously, why this time?
Why what?
Why are you voting me?
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Funny fact: i do like your play when I am town
I guess that means you don't like it here.
Seriously, why this time?
Why what?
Why are you voting me?
Forget the question, you're not going to answer it. Do you think I am scum or Traitor?
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Do you think I am scum or Traitor?
Yes.
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Uh so that was a very sad day.
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Uh so that was a very sad day.
Was it that bad though? I mean, we lost 2 PRs, but scum also lost a PR so it could be a lot worse.
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Uh so that was a very sad day.
Was it that bad though? I mean, we lost 2 PRs, but scum also lost a PR so it could be a lot worse.
That day is nearly meaningless. Even the wagon on WW m, who was scum is slightly meaningless. Looking at the votes, it is hard to tell if scum wanted to be on or off because it was so RVSy
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Uh so that was a very sad day.
Was it that bad though? I mean, we lost 2 PRs, but scum also lost a PR so it could be a lot worse.
That day is nearly meaningless. Even the wagon on WW m, who was scum is slightly meaningless. Looking at the votes, it is hard to tell if scum wanted to be on or off because it was so RVSy
OTOH, it was also probably thanks to that that the traitor shot scum.
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Lol That day/night was terrible and also very good. Losing two of our three Pr's sucked but getting scum D1/N1 is also a massive boost for town and makes it much easier for a town win.
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feels so good to be in a game again! And I am still not scumread by Awaclus!
Though feel free to lynch this guy in my semiabsence.
I am IC now
Please stop. Your not a IC.
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feels so good to be in a game again! And I am still not scumread by Awaclus!
Though feel free to lynch this guy in my semiabsence.
I am IC now
Please stop. Your not a IC.
sure, I know
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feels so good to be in a game again! And I am still not scumread by Awaclus!
Though feel free to lynch this guy in my semiabsence.
I am IC now
Please stop. Your not a IC.
sure, I know
it's just no one would bus as early
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Good deal (sort of). We lost the vig but took down a scum at night anyway. I love a good double cross. Another positive is that the two remaining scum will be forced to work independently now. I guess that can make it harder (if not impossible) to partner hunt, but they won't be able to coordinate how they are going to try to drive the game, so I think the balance of power is tilted in town's favor as far as day interactions are concerned, so we are in good shape.
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The guy's vla, what do you want to achieve with the wagon? vote: SA
This is scummy.
RR is scum. I am ready to eat my tie on it. fully serious vote: RR
More scummy.
Also the height of the WW wagon was: gkrieg, Robz, Joseph, Awaclus, RR
So people not on wagon that aren't dead are: LaLight, Space, Jimmmmm, Jake.
I would be willing to bet that the partner is not on the wagon, and that the traitor is on the wagon.
Day 1 Final Vote Count
Witherweaver (1): gkrieg13
LaLight (2): Witherweaver, Jimmmmm
Jimmmmm (1): SpaceAnemone
Roadrunner7671 (6): LaLight, JaketheBaseballGod22, Robz888, Dylan32, Joseph2302, Awaclus
Not Voting (1): Roadrunner7671
With 11 alive, it took 6 to lynch.
And here is the EoD wagon. People on the mislynch who could've hammered WW are: LaLight, Jake.
vote: LaLight
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The guy's vla, what do you want to achieve with the wagon? vote: SA
This is scummy.
RR is scum. I am ready to eat my tie on it. fully serious vote: RR
More scummy.
Also the height of the WW wagon was: gkrieg, Robz, Joseph, Awaclus, RR
So people not on wagon that aren't dead are: LaLight, Space, Jimmmmm, Jake.
I would be willing to bet that the partner is not on the wagon, and that the traitor is on the wagon.
Day 1 Final Vote Count
Witherweaver (1): gkrieg13
LaLight (2): Witherweaver, Jimmmmm
Jimmmmm (1): SpaceAnemone
Roadrunner7671 (6): LaLight, JaketheBaseballGod22, Robz888, Dylan32, Joseph2302, Awaclus
Not Voting (1): Roadrunner7671
With 11 alive, it took 6 to lynch.
And here is the EoD wagon. People on the mislynch who could've hammered WW are: LaLight, Jake.
vote: LaLight
I would never have hammered anyone this early on a Day.
-
Good afternoon/morning/otherTimeOfDay everyone :-)
Vote: Jimmmmm Have we played in the same game before?
I don't believe so. Can anemones survive in space?
Worryingly, there hasn't been enough day phase in this game for me to have had a chance to respond to this yet :-P
I'm not sure what to make of the derpquotehammer issue.. I feel like I stopped paying attention to f.ds for a few hours and then the day was over!
LL seems to be posting quite a lot coming into D2, though it may just be that other people are posting very little. I'm finding the forum to be super-slow to use at the moment.
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The guy's vla, what do you want to achieve with the wagon? vote: SA
This is scummy.
RR is scum. I am ready to eat my tie on it. fully serious vote: RR
More scummy.
Also the height of the WW wagon was: gkrieg, Robz, Joseph, Awaclus, RR
So people not on wagon that aren't dead are: LaLight, Space, Jimmmmm, Jake.
I would be willing to bet that the partner is not on the wagon, and that the traitor is on the wagon.
Day 1 Final Vote Count
Witherweaver (1): gkrieg13
LaLight (2): Witherweaver, Jimmmmm
Jimmmmm (1): SpaceAnemone
Roadrunner7671 (6): LaLight, JaketheBaseballGod22, Robz888, Dylan32, Joseph2302, Awaclus
Not Voting (1): Roadrunner7671
With 11 alive, it took 6 to lynch.
And here is the EoD wagon. People on the mislynch who could've hammered WW are: LaLight, Jake.
vote: LaLight
I'm curious as to how you have completely left me out of all of your analysis. I know you have generally not read me well recently, but to not see me at all is weird.
-
The guy's vla, what do you want to achieve with the wagon? vote: SA
This is scummy.
RR is scum. I am ready to eat my tie on it. fully serious vote: RR
More scummy.
Also the height of the WW wagon was: gkrieg, Robz, Joseph, Awaclus, RR
So people not on wagon that aren't dead are: LaLight, Space, Jimmmmm, Jake.
I would be willing to bet that the partner is not on the wagon, and that the traitor is on the wagon.
Day 1 Final Vote Count
Witherweaver (1): gkrieg13
LaLight (2): Witherweaver, Jimmmmm
Jimmmmm (1): SpaceAnemone
Roadrunner7671 (6): LaLight, JaketheBaseballGod22, Robz888, Dylan32, Joseph2302, Awaclus
Not Voting (1): Roadrunner7671
With 11 alive, it took 6 to lynch.
And here is the EoD wagon. People on the mislynch who could've hammered WW are: LaLight, Jake.
vote: LaLight
I'm curious as to how you have completely left me out of all of your analysis. I know you have generally not read me well recently, but to not see me at all is weird.
Well you aren't in either of the groups I was looking in.
-
The guy's vla, what do you want to achieve with the wagon? vote: SA
This is scummy.
RR is scum. I am ready to eat my tie on it. fully serious vote: RR
More scummy.
Also the height of the WW wagon was: gkrieg, Robz, Joseph, Awaclus, RR
So people not on wagon that aren't dead are: LaLight, Space, Jimmmmm, Jake.
I would be willing to bet that the partner is not on the wagon, and that the traitor is on the wagon.
Day 1 Final Vote Count
Witherweaver (1): gkrieg13
LaLight (2): Witherweaver, Jimmmmm
Jimmmmm (1): SpaceAnemone
Roadrunner7671 (6): LaLight, JaketheBaseballGod22, Robz888, Dylan32, Joseph2302, Awaclus
Not Voting (1): Roadrunner7671
With 11 alive, it took 6 to lynch.
And here is the EoD wagon. People on the mislynch who could've hammered WW are: LaLight, Jake.
vote: LaLight
I'm curious as to how you have completely left me out of all of your analysis. I know you have generally not read me well recently, but to not see me at all is weird.
Well you aren't in either of the groups I was looking in.
Well, I was on the mislynch, and I wasn't on WW so could have hammered, so really I should have been in that list.
-
Wait... Did I just argue myself into the list of people gkrieg was pointing out as suspects?
-
Oh. That is just overlooking on my part.
Also there was like no posts from you D1 so I wouldn't find it that strange you weren't included in my analysis.
-
Wait... Did I just argue myself into the list of people gkrieg was pointing out as suspects?
Looks like it.
-
Oh. That is just overlooking on my part.
Also there was like no posts from you D1 so I wouldn't find it that strange you weren't included in my analysis.
I had 8 times the posts you did in all of D1 (8 to 1) sooo...
-
The guy's vla, what do you want to achieve with the wagon? vote: SA
This is scummy.
RR is scum. I am ready to eat my tie on it. fully serious vote: RR
More scummy.
Also the height of the WW wagon was: gkrieg, Robz, Joseph, Awaclus, RR
So people not on wagon that aren't dead are: LaLight, Space, Jimmmmm, Jake.
I would be willing to bet that the partner is not on the wagon, and that the traitor is on the wagon.
Day 1 Final Vote Count
Witherweaver (1): gkrieg13
LaLight (2): Witherweaver, Jimmmmm
Jimmmmm (1): SpaceAnemone
Roadrunner7671 (6): LaLight, JaketheBaseballGod22, Robz888, Dylan32, Joseph2302, Awaclus
Not Voting (1): Roadrunner7671
With 11 alive, it took 6 to lynch.
And here is the EoD wagon. People on the mislynch who could've hammered WW are: LaLight, Jake.
vote: LaLight
Nonsense. Why in the world would I hammer anyone so early in the day? O_o you can't base your analysis on people who could've hammered WW. This doesn't make any sense.
I catches pr vibes from RR and was sure they are scummy, that's all.
Hey, you of all people should know i'm town at this point!
-
e^(i * π) + 1 = 0
Vote Count 2.1
Awaclus (1): LaLight
LaLight (2): Awaclus, gkrieg13
Not Voting (5): Dylan32, Joseph2302, Jimmmmm, SpaceAnemone, JaketheBaseballGod22
With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 2 ends May the 6th at 3:30 am forum time.
Deadline has been extended due to continuing forum slowness.
-
The forum is prohibitively slow... I've reached click-something-and-check-back-in-5-mins levels of access speed :-( Is that why it's so dead in this game right now?
Had RR actually sort of indicated that he might be a vig through his question at #89? Actually, #97 is pretty much a vig-slip, and his follow-up joke about being the traitor (at #112) might just have been his way of covering for it. Robz, Dylan and Joseph were pretty quick to jump on the RR wagon following that joke, so other than Robz, that's where I'm most suspicious for now -- Dylan and Joseph (and Awaclus) might have realised RR was the vig before voting.
Ah, I left this post part-written for a couple of hours and now the speed seems to have improved :-) Definitely time to sleep now, though.
-
The forum is prohibitively slow... I've reached click-something-and-check-back-in-5-mins levels of access speed :-( Is that why it's so dead in this game right now?
Had RR actually sort of indicated that he might be a vig through his question at #89? Actually, #97 is pretty much a vig-slip, and his follow-up joke about being the traitor (at #112) might just have been his way of covering for it. Robz, Dylan and Joseph were pretty quick to jump on the RR wagon following that joke, so other than Robz, that's where I'm most suspicious for now -- Dylan and Joseph (and Awaclus) might have realised RR was the vig before voting.
Yeah, I realized he was a vig and that's why I was trying to defend him and put pressure on other people. Unfortunately that didn't work out exactly how I planned it :S
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The forum is prohibitively slow... I've reached click-something-and-check-back-in-5-mins levels of access speed :-( Is that why it's so dead in this game right now?
Had RR actually sort of indicated that he might be a vig through his question at #89? Actually, #97 is pretty much a vig-slip, and his follow-up joke about being the traitor (at #112) might just have been his way of covering for it. Robz, Dylan and Joseph were pretty quick to jump on the RR wagon following that joke, so other than Robz, that's where I'm most suspicious for now -- Dylan and Joseph (and Awaclus) might have realised RR was the vig before voting.
Ah, I left this post part-written for a couple of hours and now the speed seems to have improved :-) Definitely time to sleep now, though.
Yeah yesterday I just gave up on using the forum because of the load time. After the vig breadcrumb, I thought he was the vig, but after the traitor thing I was convinced he was traitor setting up a fakeclaim after he shot someone n1 to either be IC or out the real vig.
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The forum seems to be loading better now; I'll catch up later today.
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My only comments at this point are: If you're quoting USE THE PREVIEW BUTTON. Also don't be so willing to lynch people over very minor things very early into D1. Sadly these are just as likely bad Town plays as scum plays.
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Wow this game has been slow.
I'll be catching up later, but doesn't look like I've missed much.....
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The guy's vla, what do you want to achieve with the wagon? vote: SA
This is scummy.
RR is scum. I am ready to eat my tie on it. fully serious vote: RR
More scummy.
Also the height of the WW wagon was: gkrieg, Robz, Joseph, Awaclus, RR
So people not on wagon that aren't dead are: LaLight, Space, Jimmmmm, Jake.
I would be willing to bet that the partner is not on the wagon, and that the traitor is on the wagon.
Day 1 Final Vote Count
Witherweaver (1): gkrieg13
LaLight (2): Witherweaver, Jimmmmm
Jimmmmm (1): SpaceAnemone
Roadrunner7671 (6): LaLight, JaketheBaseballGod22, Robz888, Dylan32, Joseph2302, Awaclus
Not Voting (1): Roadrunner7671
With 11 alive, it took 6 to lynch.
And here is the EoD wagon. People on the mislynch who could've hammered WW are: LaLight, Jake.
vote: LaLight
Nonsense. Why in the world would I hammer anyone so early in the day? O_o you can't base your analysis on people who could've hammered WW. This doesn't make any sense.
I catches pr vibes from RR and was sure they are scummy, that's all.
Hey, you of all people should know i'm town at this point!
You would hammer if you thought they were scum.
So I wasn't sure why gkrieg thought LL's post asking what people wanted to accomplish with the WW wagon was scummy, but then I reread the wagon, and that post was actually LL getting off the wagon once it got up to L-2. I was thinking the same thing at the time about WW being VLA, but that does seem like an almost too perfect excuse for him to get off the wagon after early day bussing. Vote: LaLight
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Where is everyone? Request prods on everyone but Joseph. We are literally the only 2 people who posted today (yesterday when you consider it is after midnight forum time)...
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I am sorry. i had 3 day national holiday as well (The day of Spring and Labour fwiw)
Catching up. Don't lynch me yet
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You would hammer if you thought they were scum.
So I wasn't sure why gkrieg thought LL's post asking what people wanted to accomplish with the WW wagon was scummy, but then I reread the wagon, and that post was actually LL getting off the wagon once it got up to L-2. I was thinking the same thing at the time about WW being VLA, but that does seem like an almost too perfect excuse for him to get off the wagon after early day bussing. Vote: LaLight
I would not hammer because how the hell could I be sure WW is scum on 5th page?! We're going to the wrong direction with this argument. Still doesn't make sense for me. And if I was scum, I wouldn't be bussing as early. And I wouldn't jump off the bus as early. I am not a newbie, hey
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Vote Count 2.2
Awaclus (1): LaLight
LaLight (3): Awaclus, gkrieg13, Dylan32
Not Voting (4): Joseph2302, Jimmmmm, SpaceAnemone, JaketheBaseballGod22
With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 2 ends May 6th at 3:30 am forum time.
prods issued to: SpaceAnemone, gkrieg13, JaketheBaseballGod22.
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Sorry catching up tomorrow. Still think it is LaLight
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Sorry catching up tomorrow. Still think it is LaLight
That means that either you are a scum (lynch him after my flip guys), or you are just plain wrong
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Wow, my first prod. I feel so grown-up :-P
I'm about to be in a bunch of meetings, but I'll try to make time for here by mid-afternoon forum time.
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So, my thoughts on what happened so far:
- Awaclus hammer definitely looks like an accident. Doesn't seem scummy to me therefore. Also, RR was looking kind of scummy.
- LL went off the wagon when it was L-2. Why is this considered so scummy? After all, he left a mislynch wagon?
[li]As it's a traitor game, scum couldn't have known for sure that RR was town. He seemed like the traitor after all. Which makes the wagon info a bit less useful.
[/li][/list]
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A setup question: Do scum always see traitor? Assuming I'm interpreting the definition of maximal matching correctly, I think they do?
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Vote: Joseph
Attempted Townslip.
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Oh wait, I misunderstood. Never mind. Unvote
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In answer to your question, no. If the Watcher is matched to anything else, there are no more edges for Mafia Knows Traitor.
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Don't we know the exact setup already?
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Yeah, it has to be this.
5.97%: Watcher, Roleblocker, 1-shot Vigilante Traitor, Jailkeeper, Vigilante, 2-shot Ninja
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Sorry for lack of posting I haven't been able to get on the forum until this morning. I think the reasoning for why LL is scum is awful. How can you expect someone to hammer a rvs wagon?
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Sorry for lack of posting I haven't been able to get on the forum until this morning. I think the reasoning for why LL is scum is awful. How can you expect someone to hammer a rvs wagon?
Thanks for the voice of reason
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In answer to your question, no. If the Watcher is matched to anything else, there are no more edges for Mafia Knows Traitor.
Ah I forgot it has to be unique endpoint on both sides of the bipartite graph.
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Yeah, it has to be this.
5.97%: Watcher, Roleblocker, 1-shot Vigilante Traitor, Jailkeeper, Vigilante, 2-shot Ninja
Okay, missed that thanks.
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Sorry for lack of posting I haven't been able to get on the forum until this morning. I think the reasoning for why LL is scum is awful. How can you expect someone to hammer a rvs wagon?
It wasn't necessarily a RVs wagon. RR had given strong indication he was the traitor, as he was fishing for information.
Although I don't think LL is scummy based on RR wagon.
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Sorry for lack of posting I haven't been able to get on the forum until this morning. I think the reasoning for why LL is scum is awful. How can you expect someone to hammer a rvs wagon?
It wasn't necessarily a RVs wagon. RR had given strong indication he was the traitor, as he was fishing for information.
Although I don't think LL is scummy based on RR wagon.
The WW wagon not RR wagon.
The guy's vla, what do you want to achieve with the wagon? vote: SA
This is scummy.
RR is scum. I am ready to eat my tie on it. fully serious vote: RR
More scummy.
Also the height of the WW wagon was: gkrieg, Robz, Joseph, Awaclus, RR
So people not on wagon that aren't dead are: LaLight, Space, Jimmmmm, Jake.
I would be willing to bet that the partner is not on the wagon, and that the traitor is on the wagon.
Day 1 Final Vote Count
Witherweaver (1): gkrieg13
LaLight (2): Witherweaver, Jimmmmm
Jimmmmm (1): SpaceAnemone
Roadrunner7671 (6): LaLight, JaketheBaseballGod22, Robz888, Dylan32, Joseph2302, Awaclus
Not Voting (1): Roadrunner7671
With 11 alive, it took 6 to lynch.
And here is the EoD wagon. People on the mislynch who could've hammered WW are: LaLight, Jake.
vote: LaLight
This is what I'm talking about. This reasoning is soooooooo flawed. I mean look at the votes on the WW wagon:
Vote: WW to make it a proper wagon.
This is a rvs vote. Then the very next post:
Vote: WW
Wagons are fun
then this
The guy's vla, what do you want to achieve with the wagon?
What do you not want to achieve with the wagon? Vote: WW
Vote: WW
Sorry. I lied about him being at L1, but I want my statement to be true.
I mean how can you expect someone to hammer a person after those are votes that put them on L-1. Especially after how little time had passed in the game.
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No matter their alignment I don't think anyone would have actually hammered. I know I wouldn't have and I am pretty sure LL wouldn't have ethier.
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Updated thoughts on the game from my lunch-time read-through:
1) LL should have eaten his tie, since RR was a PR and not a scum :-)
2) RR's vig-slip is at #97.
3) #108: LL mentions that he thinks RR could be a traitor because he's "clearly not town".
4) #112: Here's where RR got himself into trouble, though he didn't even say he was the traitor. I think he was just wifoming as cover for his PR-slip.
5) The wagon builds from #115 onwards. (Robz @#113, Dylan @#115, Joseph @#117). LL and Jake were already on there. It's notable that WW didn't join the wagon, even though he did respond to RR between #100 and #103. That could be evidence that his buddy was already on-wagon, i.e. LL or Jake.
6) Yeah, I agree with Awaclus that Joseph is a strong contender for traitor. (#123).
7) I'm not sure whether to read anything into LL being so on top of solving the game state before most of the rest of us were awake/posting at the start of D2. Of course, we had all the data we needed after the flips, and he's clearly copy-pasted from my role breakdown, but chances are that scums would be quicker than towns to follow that through, given that they'd have had more info to pin the configuration down to begin with.
8. Did anyone ever check my role breakdown? (How to you make 8-closebrackets not come out like a sunglasses emoticon?)
9) In reference to gkrieg's post #174:
Some high points on the WW wagon:
#79 WW: LL, gkreig, Robz, Joseph {L-2}
#81 WW: gkreig, Robz, Joseph, Awaclus {L-2}
#86 WW: gkreig, Robz, Joseph, Awaclus, RR {L-1}
So people not on-wagon for WW who aren't dead: Space, Jimmmmm, Jake, Dylan -- gkrieg's argument is that one of these should be the scum.
People on-wagon for RR probably do include the other scum; that's LL, Jake, Robz, Dylan, Joseph and Awaclus.
So Dylan and Jake are the only two on-wagon for RR and off-wagon for WW, though LL wasn't voting WW for long after his wagon built up, so he's another possible partner.
10) #212 -- Go Jake! I like how Jake's showing up Joseph's lack of grasp of current events by contrasting it with some clear logical facts backed up by quotes :-) I also agree that not having hammered WW is not in itself a scum tell (I also did not hammer him!), but I think the people merrily joining the wagon as it grows are still somewhat less suspicious than those of us who just weren't interested in it.
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LaLight. It's not that you should've hammered, it's that you unvoted and then tried to get people to look elsewhere.
Scum would avoid the wagon all together. So it's not that there wasn't a hammer, it's that those people weren't on the wagon to begin with.
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LaLight. It's not that you should've hammered, it's that you unvoted and then tried to get people to look elsewhere.
Scum would avoid the wagon all together. So it's not that there wasn't a hammer, it's that those people weren't on the wagon to begin with.
I left it on 4th page because I thought WW is VLA and wagon will just break itself because nothing will be happening, that's all
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6) Yeah, I agree with Awaclus that Joseph is a strong contender for traitor. (#123).
No I'm not. I'm the SK
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Re: Jake's analysis of the WWagon. Yeah I hate the way people just jump on early RVS wagons for no reason or just for the sake of building a wagon. I'm starting to appreciate PPS's crusade to kill careless wagons by his alignment-independent quickhammers on bad wagons. This derphammer is another good example of why jumping on wagons for the sake of wagons is bad (generally, unless you have a specific reason or plan)
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Re: Jake's analysis of the WWagon. Yeah I hate the way people just jump on early RVS wagons for no reason or just for the sake of building a wagon. I'm starting to appreciate PPS's crusade to kill careless wagons by his alignment-independent quickhammers on bad wagons. This derphammer is another good example of why jumping on wagons for the sake of wagons is bad (generally, unless you have a specific reason or plan)
Although if it turns out that the RVS wagon did just out scum!LL, which is somewhat possibly, I'll eat these words and jump on the next 10 RVS wagons I see regardless of reads, target, or vote count.
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I'm not gonna lie, my case on LaLight isn't that great, but I honestly think it is the strongest case we have, because of D1 being cut so short. I also think that we really need to get this game moving if we want to have a better D2.
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The guy's vla, what do you want to achieve with the wagon? vote: SA
This is scummy.
RR is scum. I am ready to eat my tie on it. fully serious vote: RR
More scummy.
Also the height of the WW wagon was: gkrieg, Robz, Joseph, Awaclus, RR
So people not on wagon that aren't dead are: LaLight, Space, Jimmmmm, Jake.
I would be willing to bet that the partner is not on the wagon, and that the traitor is on the wagon.
Day 1 Final Vote Count
Witherweaver (1): gkrieg13
LaLight (2): Witherweaver, Jimmmmm
Jimmmmm (1): SpaceAnemone
Roadrunner7671 (6): LaLight, JaketheBaseballGod22, Robz888, Dylan32, Joseph2302, Awaclus
Not Voting (1): Roadrunner7671
With 11 alive, it took 6 to lynch.
And here is the EoD wagon. People on the mislynch who could've hammered WW are: LaLight, Jake.
vote: LaLight
Nonsense. Why in the world would I hammer anyone so early in the day? O_o you can't base your analysis on people who could've hammered WW. This doesn't make any sense.
If I can't base my analysis on this, what should I base it on? What are you basing your vote on Today?
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The forum is prohibitively slow... I've reached click-something-and-check-back-in-5-mins levels of access speed :-( Is that why it's so dead in this game right now?
Had RR actually sort of indicated that he might be a vig through his question at #89? Actually, #97 is pretty much a vig-slip, and his follow-up joke about being the traitor (at #112) might just have been his way of covering for it. Robz, Dylan and Joseph were pretty quick to jump on the RR wagon following that joke, so other than Robz, that's where I'm most suspicious for now -- Dylan and Joseph (and Awaclus) might have realised RR was the vig before voting.
Ah, I left this post part-written for a couple of hours and now the speed seems to have improved :-) Definitely time to sleep now, though.
Why are you singling Robz out of these people but not placing a vote?
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My only comments at this point are: If you're quoting USE THE PREVIEW BUTTON. Also don't be so willing to lynch people over very minor things very early into D1. Sadly these are just as likely bad Town plays as scum plays.
So you have nothing from D1?
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The guy's vla, what do you want to achieve with the wagon? vote: SA
This is scummy.
RR is scum. I am ready to eat my tie on it. fully serious vote: RR
More scummy.
Also the height of the WW wagon was: gkrieg, Robz, Joseph, Awaclus, RR
So people not on wagon that aren't dead are: LaLight, Space, Jimmmmm, Jake.
I would be willing to bet that the partner is not on the wagon, and that the traitor is on the wagon.
Day 1 Final Vote Count
Witherweaver (1): gkrieg13
LaLight (2): Witherweaver, Jimmmmm
Jimmmmm (1): SpaceAnemone
Roadrunner7671 (6): LaLight, JaketheBaseballGod22, Robz888, Dylan32, Joseph2302, Awaclus
Not Voting (1): Roadrunner7671
With 11 alive, it took 6 to lynch.
And here is the EoD wagon. People on the mislynch who could've hammered WW are: LaLight, Jake.
vote: LaLight
Nonsense. Why in the world would I hammer anyone so early in the day? O_o you can't base your analysis on people who could've hammered WW. This doesn't make any sense.
I catches pr vibes from RR and was sure they are scummy, that's all.
Hey, you of all people should know i'm town at this point!
You would hammer if you thought they were scum.
So I wasn't sure why gkrieg thought LL's post asking what people wanted to accomplish with the WW wagon was scummy, but then I reread the wagon, and that post was actually LL getting off the wagon once it got up to L-2. I was thinking the same thing at the time about WW being VLA, but that does seem like an almost too perfect excuse for him to get off the wagon after early day bussing. Vote: LaLight
To those not voting for LaLight, how do you explain these posts that look like LaLight jumping off an early bus?
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You would hammer if you thought they were scum.
So I wasn't sure why gkrieg thought LL's post asking what people wanted to accomplish with the WW wagon was scummy, but then I reread the wagon, and that post was actually LL getting off the wagon once it got up to L-2. I was thinking the same thing at the time about WW being VLA, but that does seem like an almost too perfect excuse for him to get off the wagon after early day bussing. Vote: LaLight
I would not hammer because how the hell could I be sure WW is scum on 5th page?! We're going to the wrong direction with this argument. Still doesn't make sense for me. And if I was scum, I wouldn't be bussing as early. And I wouldn't jump off the bus as early. I am not a newbie, hey
Unfortunately, these are unverifiable points. Which means that this defense doesn't hold much water. Saying what you would do as scum is the flimsiest defense. Not saying that it is the best case either, but like I said, I think this is the scummiest thing that has happened so far.
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Sorry catching up tomorrow. Still think it is LaLight
That means that either you are a scum (lynch him after my flip guys), or you are just plain wrong
Uh, or the third option, that you are scum and I caught you!
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So, my thoughts on what happened so far:
- Awaclus hammer definitely looks like an accident. Doesn't seem scummy to me therefore. Also, RR was looking kind of scummy.
- LL went off the wagon when it was L-2. Why is this considered so scummy? After all, he left a mislynch wagon?
- As it's a traitor game, scum couldn't have known for sure that RR was town. He seemed like the traitor after all. Which makes the wagon info a bit less useful.
I agree that Awaclus's thing does look like an accident. I don't think you do that as scum, and it is a mistake I've made before. I think that RR's play wasn't the best with his random claiming, but I don't think I ever got the feeling that he was scum. I think considering WW did have a large wagon (I get that some of it was RVS) it is more likely that there is scum on RR's wagon.
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Sorry for lack of posting I haven't been able to get on the forum until this morning. I think the reasoning for why LL is scum is awful. How can you expect someone to hammer a rvs wagon?
I'll ask this again, are there any better reasons for anyone else being scum? Like no one has offered ANYTHING else.
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Also I thought Space was a little bit townie for their evaluation of the setup, until I saw the scum QT for newbie mafia, and now it is super duper null for me.
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No matter their alignment I don't think anyone would have actually hammered. I know I wouldn't have and I am pretty sure LL wouldn't have ethier.
But you also have to look at what LaLight did instead of hammering. He started pushing for RR, which is exactly what a partner does when their buddy is closish to being lynched.
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Updated thoughts on the game from my lunch-time read-through:
5) The wagon builds from #115 onwards. (Robz @#113, Dylan @#115, Joseph @#117). LL and Jake were already on there. It's notable that WW didn't join the wagon, even though he did respond to RR between #100 and #103. That could be evidence that his buddy was already on-wagon, i.e. LL or Jake.
I think this is a great point. And also something I was already considering.
6) Yeah, I agree with Awaclus that Joseph is a strong contender for traitor. (#123).
And why is that?
7) I'm not sure whether to read anything into LL being so on top of solving the game state before most of the rest of us were awake/posting at the start of D2. Of course, we had all the data we needed after the flips, and he's clearly copy-pasted from my role breakdown, but chances are that scums would be quicker than towns to follow that through, given that they'd have had more info to pin the configuration down to begin with.
Uh, I think this is relatively weak. Although on the other hand, I opened the thread, saw who was killed and thought "that is good and sucks at the same time" seeing that we had lost a couple PRs, and didn't look at the setup stuff, so I guess it isn't super weak.
8. Did anyone ever check my role breakdown? (How to you make 8-closebrackets not come out like a sunglasses emoticon?)
If you put a [b'][/b'] (without the 's) in between it works I think 8) (quote that to see what I mean)
9) In reference to gkrieg's post #174:
Some high points on the WW wagon:
#79 WW: LL, gkreig, Robz, Joseph {L-2}
#81 WW: gkreig, Robz, Joseph, Awaclus {L-2}
#86 WW: gkreig, Robz, Joseph, Awaclus, RR {L-1}
So people not on-wagon for WW who aren't dead: Space, Jimmmmm, Jake, Dylan -- gkrieg's argument is that one of these should be the scum.
People on-wagon for RR probably do include the other scum; that's LL, Jake, Robz, Dylan, Joseph and Awaclus.
So Dylan and Jake are the only two on-wagon for RR and off-wagon for WW, though LL wasn't voting WW for long after his wagon built up, so he's another possible partner.
10) #212 -- Go Jake! I like how Jake's showing up Joseph's lack of grasp of current events by contrasting it with some clear logical facts backed up by quotes :-) I also agree that not having hammered WW is not in itself a scum tell (I also did not hammer him!), but I think the people merrily joining the wagon as it grows are still somewhat less suspicious than those of us who just weren't interested in it.
And also Space didn't try to pull the attention off WW like others did, which I think is the big distinction. Ironically, the traitor thought that WW wasn't scum, so people saying that "one partner is here, another partner is there" aren't thinking correctly. The traitor was sure that WW was town, and most likely less experienced (who kills someone who had a major wagon on them? That just gives so much more information!!!)
Actually I hadn't thought about that point before. It might narrow down a little bit who the traitor is.
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LaLight. It's not that you should've hammered, it's that you unvoted and then tried to get people to look elsewhere.
Scum would avoid the wagon all together. So it's not that there wasn't a hammer, it's that those people weren't on the wagon to begin with.
I left it on 4th page because I thought WW is VLA and wagon will just break itself because nothing will be happening, that's all
This is mildly scummy.
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No matter their alignment I don't think anyone would have actually hammered. I know I wouldn't have and I am pretty sure LL wouldn't have ethier.
But you also have to look at what LaLight did instead of hammering. He started pushing for RR, which is exactly what a partner does when their buddy is closish to being lynched.
Wait... instead of hammering who?
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Re: Jake's analysis of the WWagon. Yeah I hate the way people just jump on early RVS wagons for no reason or just for the sake of building a wagon. I'm starting to appreciate PPS's crusade to kill careless wagons by his alignment-independent quickhammers on bad wagons. This derphammer is another good example of why jumping on wagons for the sake of wagons is bad (generally, unless you have a specific reason or plan)
True in RVS, but I think it is good in general to have wagons formed. It helps later in analysis when there is a good wagon formed on a scum.
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2 other people watching the thread, but neither of them are in the game...
sigh.
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The forum is prohibitively slow... I've reached click-something-and-check-back-in-5-mins levels of access speed :-( Is that why it's so dead in this game right now?
Had RR actually sort of indicated that he might be a vig through his question at #89? Actually, #97 is pretty much a vig-slip, and his follow-up joke about being the traitor (at #112) might just have been his way of covering for it. Robz, Dylan and Joseph were pretty quick to jump on the RR wagon following that joke, so other than Robz, that's where I'm most suspicious for now -- Dylan and Joseph (and Awaclus) might have realised RR was the vig before voting.
Ah, I left this post part-written for a couple of hours and now the speed seems to have improved :-) Definitely time to sleep now, though.
Why are you singling Robz out of these people but not placing a vote?
Are you suggesting I should be voting for Robz, or that I should have picked one of the others to vote for?
Either way, I think you're maybe just misreading me, which isn't that surprising given the mangled sentence I seem to have written :-P
What I was trying to say was that the set people jumping opportunistically onto the RR wagon are suspicious, except that I need to exclude Robz from the set because he flipped town, so it's hard to stay suspicious. That leaves me with Dylan or Joseph, or possibly Awaclus, if we think the quote-fail was carefully-crafted scum shenanigans.
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Also I thought Space was a little bit townie for their evaluation of the setup, until I saw the scum QT for newbie mafia, and now it is super duper null for me.
What is it in that QT that makes you think that the likelihood of me sharing town-useful information in the main thread as scum have gone up compared to before?
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6) Yeah, I agree with Awaclus that Joseph is a strong contender for traitor. (#123).
And why is that?
I've got a few notes towards my case on Joseph, but nothing yet that couldn't be explained as a player who's just not very into the game and likes playing to their own low-utility-town meta.
7) I'm not sure whether to read anything into LL being so on top of solving the game state before most of the rest of us were awake/posting at the start of D2. Of course, we had all the data we needed after the flips, and he's clearly copy-pasted from my role breakdown, but chances are that scums would be quicker than towns to follow that through, given that they'd have had more info to pin the configuration down to begin with.
Uh, I think this is relatively weak. Although on the other hand, I opened the thread, saw who was killed and thought "that is good and sucks at the same time" seeing that we had lost a couple PRs, and didn't look at the setup stuff, so I guess it isn't super weak.
1) You're being a Hedgey McHedgeface. I'm imagining schadd saying something similar in the speccy, but with less capitalization and possibly a less British way of putting it :-)
2) "Relatively weak" sums up everything about D1.
3) Let me quote your own post back at you:
I'm not gonna lie, my case on LaLight isn't that great, but I honestly think it is the strongest case we have, because of D1 being cut so short.
... if you're allowed weak evidence on LL, so am I!
If you put a [b'][/b'] (without the 's) in between it works I think 8) (quote that to see what I mean)
Genius! Thanks :-)
Ironically, the traitor thought that WW wasn't scum, so people saying that "one partner is here, another partner is there" aren't thinking correctly.
Which players have been pushing that style of argument? Mine was clearly talking about a singular partner, which would be all WW was aware of, given what we know about the setup.
Incidentally, gkrieg, you're possibly the most algorithm-literate person left alive in here now... did you ever take a look at the game breakdowns I posted and/or check I hadn't missed any other plausible configurations? (No offense to other alive people I know less well... I just don't know if any of the rest of you have computational backgrounds!).
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2 other people watching the thread, but neither of them are in the game...
sigh.
That's what you get for making loads of posts in the middle of the night :-P
Right now I appear to be the only one here. It just says "1 Member and 0 Guests are viewing this topic" -- how do you get identities to be able to tell that the other people watching aren't in the game?
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No matter their alignment I don't think anyone would have actually hammered. I know I wouldn't have and I am pretty sure LL wouldn't have ethier.
But you also have to look at what LaLight did instead of hammering. He started pushing for RR, which is exactly what a partner does when their buddy is closish to being lynched.
Wait... instead of hammering who?
LL could have hammered WW at any point in the whole 10-minute window during which WW was at L-1, between posts #86 and #87...
(And the person who left the wagon at #87 was Robz, who moved his vote to LL).
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6) Yeah, I agree with Awaclus that Joseph is a strong contender for traitor. (#123).
And why is that?
I've got a few notes towards my case on Joseph, but nothing yet that couldn't be explained as a player who's just not very into the game and likes playing to their own low-utility-town meta.
I actually hate playing and being inactive. It just happens that I've been away.
Also, you thought I was scum last game, and many other times too- have you ever been right about me being scum?
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No matter their alignment I don't think anyone would have actually hammered. I know I wouldn't have and I am pretty sure LL wouldn't have ethier.
But you also have to look at what LaLight did instead of hammering. He started pushing for RR, which is exactly what a partner does when their buddy is closish to being lynched.
Wait... instead of hammering who?
LL could have hammered WW at any point in the whole 10-minute window during which WW was at L-1, between posts #86 and #87...
(And the person who left the wagon at #87 was Robz, who moved his vote to LL).
Possibly, but why would LL (or anyone else) have wanted to hammer WW so early in the day?
It seems somewhat reasonable to me that LL looked for alternative options.
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Also, you thought I was scum last game, and many other times too- have you ever been right about me being scum?
I tend to accuse you of anti-town play when you play in a way that is unhelpful to town... see my previous comment about low-utility-town meta :-)
The main point of having a "hey, I look bad as town, too" sort of cover is that it makes it easier for you to hide pro-scum play in games where that's relevant. As reasons for lynches go, I think "playing in a way that isn't good for town" is right up there with "making scum-slips", even if the former feels a bit more like a policy lynch.
On a somewhat related note, what particularly townie things have you contributed to the game?
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Sorry for lack of posting I haven't been able to get on the forum until this morning. I think the reasoning for why LL is scum is awful. How can you expect someone to hammer a rvs wagon?
I'll ask this again, are there any better reasons for anyone else being scum? Like no one has offered ANYTHING else.
Idk how about your non stop targeting of LL who I think has been pretty town. Scum usually bases their cases off weak reasoning. This case is based off of weak reasoning. You look pretty scummy to me right now
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Also, you thought I was scum last game, and many other times too- have you ever been right about me being scum?
I tend to accuse you of anti-town play when you play in a way that is unhelpful to town... see my previous comment about low-utility-town meta :-)
The main point of having a "hey, I look bad as town, too" sort of cover is that it makes it easier for you to hide pro-scum play in games where that's relevant. As reasons for lynches go, I think "playing in a way that isn't good for town" is right up there with "making scum-slips", even if the former feels a bit more like a policy lynch.
On a somewhat related note, what particularly townie things have you contributed to the game?
I started WW wagon, which gave us information
And I put RR on L1 which seemed sensible given that he was so blatantly anti-town
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a^n + b^n = c^n
Vote Count 2.3
Awaclus (1): LaLight
LaLight (3): Awaclus, gkrieg13, Dylan32
Not Voting (3): Joseph2302, SpaceAnemone, JaketheBaseballGod22, Jimmmmm
With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 2 ends May 6th at 3:30 am forum time.
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a^n + b^n = c^n
Vote Count 2.3
Awaclus (1): LaLight
LaLight (3): Awaclus, gkrieg13, Dylan32
Not Voting (3): Joseph2302, SpaceAnemone, JaketheBaseballGod22, Jimmmmm
With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 2 ends May 6th at 3:30 am forum time.
Yay Fermat's Last Theorem!
Also, LL wagon has stalled at L2
-
a^n + b^n = c^n
Vote Count 2.3
Awaclus (1): LaLight
LaLight (3): Awaclus, gkrieg13, Dylan32
Not Voting (3): Joseph2302, SpaceAnemone, JaketheBaseballGod22, Jimmmmm
With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 2 ends May 6th at 3:30 am forum time.
Yay Fermat's Last Theorem!
Also, LL wagon has stalled at L2
suits me.
I scumread Awa heavily and gk lightly along with SA
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Sorry for lack of posting I haven't been able to get on the forum until this morning. I think the reasoning for why LL is scum is awful. How can you expect someone to hammer a rvs wagon?
I'll ask this again, are there any better reasons for anyone else being scum? Like no one has offered ANYTHING else.
Idk how about your non stop targeting of LL who I think has been pretty town. Scum usually bases their cases off weak reasoning. This case is based off of weak reasoning. You look pretty scummy to me right now
Ok, how about anything other than my tunneling?
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Also I thought Space was a little bit townie for their evaluation of the setup, until I saw the scum QT for newbie mafia, and now it is super duper null for me.
What is it in that QT that makes you think that the likelihood of me sharing town-useful information in the main thread as scum have gone up compared to before?
Your long analysis of wagons. You do big analyses as scum.
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Also I thought Space was a little bit townie for their evaluation of the setup, until I saw the scum QT for newbie mafia, and now it is super duper null for me.
What is it in that QT that makes you think that the likelihood of me sharing town-useful information in the main thread as scum have gone up compared to before?
Your long analysis of wagons. You do big analyses as scum.
+1
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6) Yeah, I agree with Awaclus that Joseph is a strong contender for traitor. (#123).
And why is that?
I've got a few notes towards my case on Joseph, but nothing yet that couldn't be explained as a player who's just not very into the game and likes playing to their own low-utility-town meta.
7) I'm not sure whether to read anything into LL being so on top of solving the game state before most of the rest of us were awake/posting at the start of D2. Of course, we had all the data we needed after the flips, and he's clearly copy-pasted from my role breakdown, but chances are that scums would be quicker than towns to follow that through, given that they'd have had more info to pin the configuration down to begin with.
Uh, I think this is relatively weak. Although on the other hand, I opened the thread, saw who was killed and thought "that is good and sucks at the same time" seeing that we had lost a couple PRs, and didn't look at the setup stuff, so I guess it isn't super weak.
1) You're being a Hedgey McHedgeface. I'm imagining schadd saying something similar in the speccy, but with less capitalization and possibly a less British way of putting it :-)
2) "Relatively weak" sums up everything about D1.
3) Let me quote your own post back at you:
I'm not gonna lie, my case on LaLight isn't that great, but I honestly think it is the strongest case we have, because of D1 being cut so short.
... if you're allowed weak evidence on LL, so am I!
If you put a [b'][/b'] (without the 's) in between it works I think 8) (quote that to see what I mean)
Genius! Thanks :-)
Ironically, the traitor thought that WW wasn't scum, so people saying that "one partner is here, another partner is there" aren't thinking correctly.
Which players have been pushing that style of argument? Mine was clearly talking about a singular partner, which would be all WW was aware of, given what we know about the setup.
Incidentally, gkrieg, you're possibly the most algorithm-literate person left alive in here now... did you ever take a look at the game breakdowns I posted and/or check I hadn't missed any other plausible configurations? (No offense to other alive people I know less well... I just don't know if any of the rest of you have computational backgrounds!).
I didn't look at your breakdown, but if you just look at the graph, it is obvious that you have the correct setup for this game. Knowing 2 town roles and 2 scum roles makes it really easy to do the rest of the matching by hand and see there aren't any other options.
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2 other people watching the thread, but neither of them are in the game...
sigh.
That's what you get for making loads of posts in the middle of the night :-P
Right now I appear to be the only one here. It just says "1 Member and 0 Guests are viewing this topic" -- how do you get identities to be able to tell that the other people watching aren't in the game?
If you click "home" and then the bottom button that says the number of guests and members online it will tell you what everyone is looking at
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6) Yeah, I agree with Awaclus that Joseph is a strong contender for traitor. (#123).
And why is that?
I've got a few notes towards my case on Joseph, but nothing yet that couldn't be explained as a player who's just not very into the game and likes playing to their own low-utility-town meta.
I actually hate playing and being inactive. It just happens that I've been away.
Also, you thought I was scum last game, and many other times too- have you ever been right about me being scum?
This is pretty scummy I think
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6) Yeah, I agree with Awaclus that Joseph is a strong contender for traitor. (#123).
And why is that?
I've got a few notes towards my case on Joseph, but nothing yet that couldn't be explained as a player who's just not very into the game and likes playing to their own low-utility-town meta.
I actually hate playing and being inactive. It just happens that I've been away.
Also, you thought I was scum last game, and many other times too- have you ever been right about me being scum?
This is pretty scummy I think
I think you're scummy.
Vote: Gkrieg's
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Vote: Gkrieg in case the last vote doesn't count
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6) Yeah, I agree with Awaclus that Joseph is a strong contender for traitor. (#123).
And why is that?
I've got a few notes towards my case on Joseph, but nothing yet that couldn't be explained as a player who's just not very into the game and likes playing to their own low-utility-town meta.
I actually hate playing and being inactive. It just happens that I've been away.
Also, you thought I was scum last game, and many other times too- have you ever been right about me being scum?
This is pretty scummy I think
Pretty scummy? For Joseph?
vote: gkrieg13
The guy is just casting shadows everywhere
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I scumread everyone on my wagon
Ok.
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I scumread everyone on my wagon
Ok.
You confused Dylan and SA
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6) Yeah, I agree with Awaclus that Joseph is a strong contender for traitor. (#123).
And why is that?
I've got a few notes towards my case on Joseph, but nothing yet that couldn't be explained as a player who's just not very into the game and likes playing to their own low-utility-town meta.
7) I'm not sure whether to read anything into LL being so on top of solving the game state before most of the rest of us were awake/posting at the start of D2. Of course, we had all the data we needed after the flips, and he's clearly copy-pasted from my role breakdown, but chances are that scums would be quicker than towns to follow that through, given that they'd have had more info to pin the configuration down to begin with.
Uh, I think this is relatively weak. Although on the other hand, I opened the thread, saw who was killed and thought "that is good and sucks at the same time" seeing that we had lost a couple PRs, and didn't look at the setup stuff, so I guess it isn't super weak.
1) You're being a Hedgey McHedgeface. I'm imagining schadd saying something similar in the speccy, but with less capitalization and possibly a less British way of putting it :-)
2) "Relatively weak" sums up everything about D1.
3) Let me quote your own post back at you:
I'm not gonna lie, my case on LaLight isn't that great, but I honestly think it is the strongest case we have, because of D1 being cut so short.
... if you're allowed weak evidence on LL, so am I!
I agree that the evidence is weak, I'm not saying you shouldn't use it. I'm surprised you haven't voted yet, although I think that is a townie trait for you.
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No matter their alignment I don't think anyone would have actually hammered. I know I wouldn't have and I am pretty sure LL wouldn't have ethier.
But you also have to look at what LaLight did instead of hammering. He started pushing for RR, which is exactly what a partner does when their buddy is closish to being lynched.
Wait... instead of hammering who?
LL could have hammered WW at any point in the whole 10-minute window during which WW was at L-1, between posts #86 and #87...
(And the person who left the wagon at #87 was Robz, who moved his vote to LL).
Possibly, but why would LL (or anyone else) have wanted to hammer WW so early in the day?
It seems somewhat reasonable to me that LL looked for alternative options.
For like the millionth time, I think it is the way LaLight left the wagon, and tried to get another wagon going that he is scummy, not that he didn't hammer WW when given the chance.
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a^n + b^n = c^n
Vote Count 2.3
Awaclus (1): LaLight
LaLight (3): Awaclus, gkrieg13, Dylan32
Not Voting (3): Joseph2302, SpaceAnemone, JaketheBaseballGod22, Jimmmmm
With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 2 ends May 6th at 3:30 am forum time.
Yay Fermat's Last Theorem!
Also, LL wagon has stalled at L2
What do you think that says about the wagon?
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No matter their alignment I don't think anyone would have actually hammered. I know I wouldn't have and I am pretty sure LL wouldn't have ethier.
But you also have to look at what LaLight did instead of hammering. He started pushing for RR, which is exactly what a partner does when their buddy is closish to being lynched.
Wait... instead of hammering who?
LL could have hammered WW at any point in the whole 10-minute window during which WW was at L-1, between posts #86 and #87...
(And the person who left the wagon at #87 was Robz, who moved his vote to LL).
Possibly, but why would LL (or anyone else) have wanted to hammer WW so early in the day?
It seems somewhat reasonable to me that LL looked for alternative options.
For like the millionth time, I think it is the way LaLight left the wagon, and tried to get another wagon going that he is scummy, not that he didn't hammer WW when given the chance.
I know what you're saying.
I just disagree that it's scummy.
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6) Yeah, I agree with Awaclus that Joseph is a strong contender for traitor. (#123).
And why is that?
I've got a few notes towards my case on Joseph, but nothing yet that couldn't be explained as a player who's just not very into the game and likes playing to their own low-utility-town meta.
I actually hate playing and being inactive. It just happens that I've been away.
Also, you thought I was scum last game, and many other times too- have you ever been right about me being scum?
This is pretty scummy I think
I think you're scummy.
Vote: Gkrieg's
It is pretty scummy to try to get people to doubt their ability to read you. That is something that scum wants to do that town doesn't want to do.
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6) Yeah, I agree with Awaclus that Joseph is a strong contender for traitor. (#123).
And why is that?
I've got a few notes towards my case on Joseph, but nothing yet that couldn't be explained as a player who's just not very into the game and likes playing to their own low-utility-town meta.
I actually hate playing and being inactive. It just happens that I've been away.
Also, you thought I was scum last game, and many other times too- have you ever been right about me being scum?
This is pretty scummy I think
Pretty scummy? For Joseph?
vote: gkrieg13
The guy is just casting shadows everywhere
Where am I casting shadows? And why is what I'm doing scummy?
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I scumread everyone on my wagon
Ok.
Note to self when I read this later, this is not actually what LaLight said. The quote was modified.
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Also I thought Space was a little bit townie for their evaluation of the setup, until I saw the scum QT for newbie mafia, and now it is super duper null for me.
What is it in that QT that makes you think that the likelihood of me sharing town-useful information in the main thread as scum have gone up compared to before?
Your long analysis of wagons. You do big analyses as scum.
I analyse voting patterns every game nowadays. If you want me to post my total coloured-in rolling vote count for this game so far, I can do so later, but I only have that on my laptop, and I won't be back on that till I'm home after choir later tonight. (I assume I can put colour into a code tag, so as not to clog the thread too much, though I can't remember whether I've tried that before).
Anyway, in what way is my paying attention to votes related to how null or otherwise my breakdown of the setup probabilities is?
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I didn't look at your breakdown, but if you just look at the graph, it is obvious that you have the correct setup for this game. Knowing 2 town roles and 2 scum roles makes it really easy to do the rest of the matching by hand and see there aren't any other options.
The real reason this is relevant is that it demonstrates that you didn't worry about it in D1 but you are probably capable of having checked.
Now, maybe that's just because you weren't particularly present, maybe you just trusted that I'm right (working alone a lot, I never trust myself without good reason, because there' nobody else on hand to spot my mistakes), but it could also be that you weren't interested because scum had more information given that they knew about the set of scum roles in the game.
At least, that was my thinking when I asked you the question. Looking at the possibilities and the graph now, marginalising on the scum roles we now know are in the game doesn't really narrow the possible town roles down that much. That's actually a pretty neat feature of the game design :-)
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If you click "home" and then the bottom button that says the number of guests and members online it will tell you what everyone is looking at
Ah, okay. I knew about that page, but it only tells you what the latest page each user loaded is, AFAIK. I'd wondered whether there was a way to list all the users who'd loaded a page/topic in the past few minutes or something. Though I think I'm quite happy about it if the answer is no, because I'm not sure I want to admit to having seen some of the things I've noticed and then run quickly away from over in RSP, for instance!
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I scumread everyone on my wagon
Ok.
Note to self when I read this later, this is not actually what LaLight said. The quote was modified.
Interesting. I opined to RR a few days ago over in NM10 (#527) that altering the content of a quote is a really dishonest thing to do.
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I scumread everyone on my wagon
Ok.
Note to self when I read this later, this is not actually what LaLight said. The quote was modified.
Interesting. I opined to RR a few days ago over in NM10 (#527) that altering the content of a quote is a really dishonest thing to do.
It's not a dishonest thing to do. It's a fun and effective way to make a point.
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I scumread everyone on my wagon
Ok.
Note to self when I read this later, this is not actually what LaLight said. The quote was modified.
Interesting. I opined to RR a few days ago over in NM10 (#527) that altering the content of a quote is a really dishonest thing to do.
It's not a dishonest thing to do. It's a fun and effective way to make a point.
It's something I object to in the strongest of terms, because it's an incorrect representation of something someone said, presented in a format usually reserved for verbatim reproductions. I'm also not a fan of quoting such a minimal subset of a post that the apparent context changes, but that's harder issue to draw a line around.
It's likely that the person whose words have been edited is much more likely to be aware of the edit than any player (I hadn't noticed your "funny effective point" till gkrieg pointed it out), so it suggests itself to me as a vehicle for some attempts at subtle signalling, re the cryptography discussion going on elsethread. It may be interesting to discuss that over there once this game has concluded.
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Theory question for anyone who feels like contributing to the game over the next few hours: should we be trying to lynch the other scum right now, or are there arguments for settling on a traitor lynch?
Are the people on the LL wagon of the opinion that he's scum-and-not-traitor?
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I scumread everyone on my wagon
Ok.
Note to self when I read this later, this is not actually what LaLight said. The quote was modified.
Interesting. I opined to RR a few days ago over in NM10 (#527) that altering the content of a quote is a really dishonest thing to do.
It's not a dishonest thing to do. It's a fun and effective way to make a point.
It's something I object to in the strongest of terms, because it's an incorrect representation of something someone said, presented in a format usually reserved for verbatim reproductions. I'm also not a fan of quoting such a minimal subset of a post that the apparent context changes, but that's harder issue to draw a line around.
It's likely that the person whose words have been edited is much more likely to be aware of the edit than any player (I hadn't noticed your "funny effective point" till gkrieg pointed it out), so it suggests itself to me as a vehicle for some attempts at subtle signalling, re the cryptography discussion going on elsethread. It may be interesting to discuss that over there once this game has concluded.
You can feel free to object to it. It's not against the rules, however.
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Theory question for anyone who feels like contributing to the game over the next few hours: should we be trying to lynch the other scum right now, or are there arguments for settling on a traitor lynch?
Are the people on the LL wagon of the opinion that he's scum-and-not-traitor?
I feel like we should try to lynch the other scum because now that the traitor has used their they are useless whereas the other scum has a NK as well as the ability to RB. I feel like the other scum is more dangerous so I think we should try to lynch then first.
-
Theory question for anyone who feels like contributing to the game over the next few hours: should we be trying to lynch the other scum right now, or are there arguments for settling on a traitor lynch?
Are the people on the LL wagon of the opinion that he's scum-and-not-traitor?
I feel like we should try to lynch the other scum because now that the traitor has used their they are useless whereas the other scum has a NK as well as the ability to RB. I feel like the other scum is more dangerous so I think we should try to lynch then first.
When the last scum-not-traitor is lynched, the traitor inherits the NK if I'm not mistaken, so no matter which order they are killed, scum has 1 NK per night from now on.
-
Theory question for anyone who feels like contributing to the game over the next few hours: should we be trying to lynch the other scum right now, or are there arguments for settling on a traitor lynch?
Are the people on the LL wagon of the opinion that he's scum-and-not-traitor?
I feel like we should try to lynch the other scum because now that the traitor has used their they are useless whereas the other scum has a NK as well as the ability to RB. I feel like the other scum is more dangerous so I think we should try to lynch then first.
When the last scum-not-traitor is lynched, the traitor inherits the NK if I'm not mistaken, so no matter which order they are killed, scum has 1 NK per night from now on.
Yes but last scum also has RB ability.
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No matter their alignment I don't think anyone would have actually hammered. I know I wouldn't have and I am pretty sure LL wouldn't have ethier.
But you also have to look at what LaLight did instead of hammering. He started pushing for RR, which is exactly what a partner does when their buddy is closish to being lynched.
Wait... instead of hammering who?
LL could have hammered WW at any point in the whole 10-minute window during which WW was at L-1, between posts #86 and #87...
(And the person who left the wagon at #87 was Robz, who moved his vote to LL).
Possibly, but why would LL (or anyone else) have wanted to hammer WW so early in the day?
It seems somewhat reasonable to me that LL looked for alternative options.
For like the millionth time, I think it is the way LaLight left the wagon, and tried to get another wagon going that he is scummy, not that he didn't hammer WW when given the chance.
I know what you're saying.
I just disagree that it's scummy.
Is it townie or null?
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Also I thought Space was a little bit townie for their evaluation of the setup, until I saw the scum QT for newbie mafia, and now it is super duper null for me.
What is it in that QT that makes you think that the likelihood of me sharing town-useful information in the main thread as scum have gone up compared to before?
Your long analysis of wagons. You do big analyses as scum.
I analyse voting patterns every game nowadays. If you want me to post my total coloured-in rolling vote count for this game so far, I can do so later, but I only have that on my laptop, and I won't be back on that till I'm home after choir later tonight. (I assume I can put colour into a code tag, so as not to clog the thread too much, though I can't remember whether I've tried that before).
Anyway, in what way is my paying attention to votes related to how null or otherwise my breakdown of the setup probabilities is?
Well I would say that scum usually doesn't go to that much effort, but clearly you do.
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Theory question for anyone who feels like contributing to the game over the next few hours: should we be trying to lynch the other scum right now, or are there arguments for settling on a traitor lynch?
Are the people on the LL wagon of the opinion that he's scum-and-not-traitor?
I feel like we should try to lynch the other scum because now that the traitor has used their they are useless whereas the other scum has a NK as well as the ability to RB. I feel like the other scum is more dangerous so I think we should try to lynch then first.
When the last scum-not-traitor is lynched, the traitor inherits the NK if I'm not mistaken, so no matter which order they are killed, scum has 1 NK per night from now on.
Yes but last scum also has RB ability.
That's true, but there is only 1 town PR left, so the odds either of them actually manages to see or block the other is slim anyway. You're right that hitting non-traitor first is strictly better, but only by so much. I just don't think there's enough of a difference due to the unlikelihood of either PR hitting the other to warrant paying attention to who might be what role rather than just "is the person scum"
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I didn't look at your breakdown, but if you just look at the graph, it is obvious that you have the correct setup for this game. Knowing 2 town roles and 2 scum roles makes it really easy to do the rest of the matching by hand and see there aren't any other options.
The real reason this is relevant is that it demonstrates that you didn't worry about it in D1 but you are probably capable of having checked.
Now, maybe that's just because you weren't particularly present, maybe you just trusted that I'm right (working alone a lot, I never trust myself without good reason, because there' nobody else on hand to spot my mistakes), but it could also be that you weren't interested because scum had more information given that they knew about the set of scum roles in the game.
At least, that was my thinking when I asked you the question. Looking at the possibilities and the graph now, marginalising on the scum roles we now know are in the game doesn't really narrow the possible town roles down that much. That's actually a pretty neat feature of the game design :-)
I think there is only one possible setup, when you remove all lines for roles we know exist and match.
To check if you were right, I would've had to build my own simulator, which is not something I want to do the week before the semester ends :)
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Theory question for anyone who feels like contributing to the game over the next few hours: should we be trying to lynch the other scum right now, or are there arguments for settling on a traitor lynch?
Are the people on the LL wagon of the opinion that he's scum-and-not-traitor?
I don't think we can reasonably differentiate between the two. We should look for both and lynch the one that has the higher chance of being scum.
-
Theory question for anyone who feels like contributing to the game over the next few hours: should we be trying to lynch the other scum right now, or are there arguments for settling on a traitor lynch?
Are the people on the LL wagon of the opinion that he's scum-and-not-traitor?
I feel like we should try to lynch the other scum because now that the traitor has used their they are useless whereas the other scum has a NK as well as the ability to RB. I feel like the other scum is more dangerous so I think we should try to lynch then first.
I mean the only yhing they can roleblock now is a watcher, which isn't super powerful.
-
Theory question for anyone who feels like contributing to the game over the next few hours: should we be trying to lynch the other scum right now, or are there arguments for settling on a traitor lynch?
Are the people on the LL wagon of the opinion that he's scum-and-not-traitor?
I feel like we should try to lynch the other scum because now that the traitor has used their they are useless whereas the other scum has a NK as well as the ability to RB. I feel like the other scum is more dangerous so I think we should try to lynch then first.
When the last scum-not-traitor is lynched, the traitor inherits the NK if I'm not mistaken, so no matter which order they are killed, scum has 1 NK per night from now on.
Yes but last scum also has RB ability.
That's true, but there is only 1 town PR left, so the odds either of them actually manages to see or block the other is slim anyway. You're right that hitting non-traitor first is strictly better, but only by so much. I just don't think there's enough of a difference due to the unlikelihood of either PR hitting the other to warrant paying attention to who might be what role rather than just "is the person scum"
Plus, on top of that, the traitor doesn't know who the mafia are, which makes it much more difficult to find them anyways.
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Theory question for anyone who feels like contributing to the game over the next few hours: should we be trying to lynch the other scum right now, or are there arguments for settling on a traitor lynch?
Are the people on the LL wagon of the opinion that he's scum-and-not-traitor?
I feel like we should try to lynch the other scum because now that the traitor has used their they are useless whereas the other scum has a NK as well as the ability to RB. I feel like the other scum is more dangerous so I think we should try to lynch then first.
I mean the only yhing they can roleblock now is a watcher, which isn't super powerful.
How is Watcher not super powerful?
I think if we catch scum, we should lynch them regardless of whether we think they are the traitor or the remaining other scum.
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Awaclus is strangely explanative. Gkrieg is fitting his "gkrieg's scum meta in LL head" perfectly.
Guys, let's lynch gk, plz. Especially if he's alive next day.
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Also, Awa tunneled me for 2ish posts and gave up. That's not him. The only time i remember when Awaclus was nice and cool was British Bonkers. I am not doing the same mistake again.
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Also, Awa tunneled me for 2ish posts and gave up. That's not him. The only time i remember when Awaclus was nice and cool was British Bonkers. I am not doing the same mistake again.
That's because he was tunneling the crap out of me that game
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Also, is it really tunneling if it was only 2 posts?
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Also, is it really tunneling if it was only 2 posts?
Well, that wasn't. But that was Awaclus' favorite "LaLight is obvscum, won't tell why". I call that tunneling
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Awaclus is strangely explanative. Gkrieg is fitting his "gkrieg's scum meta in LL head" perfectly.
Guys, let's lynch gk, plz. Especially if he's alive next day.
Also, Awa tunneled me for 2ish posts and gave up. That's not him. The only time i remember when Awaclus was nice and cool was British Bonkers. I am not doing the same mistake again.
Oh yeah, I'm super explanative. I've explained...
Almost forgot this one:
In other news, these are apparently "2ish posts":
Vote: LaLight
Vote: LaLight
What antitown thing did I do this time?
What antitown thing did you not do this time?
Do you want a list?
Sure.
So you admit that you have done all the other anti-town things.
Funny fact: i do like your play when I am town
I guess that means you don't like it here.
Funny fact: i do like your play when I am town
I guess that means you don't like it here.
Seriously, why this time?
Why what?
Do you think I am scum or Traitor?
Yes.
I scumread everyone on my wagon
Ok.
And still voting for LL is apparently "gave up".
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lololol
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Awaclus is strangely explanative. Gkrieg is fitting his "gkrieg's scum meta in LL head" perfectly.
Guys, let's lynch gk, plz. Especially if he's alive next day.
Also, Awa tunneled me for 2ish posts and gave up. That's not him. The only time i remember when Awaclus was nice and cool was British Bonkers. I am not doing the same mistake again.
Oh yeah, I'm super explanative. I've explained...
Almost forgot this one:
In other news, these are apparently "2ish posts":
Vote: LaLight
Vote: LaLight
What antitown thing did I do this time?
What antitown thing did you not do this time?
Do you want a list?
Sure.
So you admit that you have done all the other anti-town things.
Funny fact: i do like your play when I am town
I guess that means you don't like it here.
Funny fact: i do like your play when I am town
I guess that means you don't like it here.
Seriously, why this time?
Why what?
Do you think I am scum or Traitor?
Yes.
I scumread everyone on my wagon
Ok.
And still voting for LL is apparently "gave up".
I honestly forgot most of this marvellous stuff.
Awaclus, if you're town, don't you think you're biased on me? Will you reconsider if I flip town?
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You say reads, gut feel etc. is false science. But you're wrong now. Okay, bad example, you were wrong about TWM in NM10. Why? How came?
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Antitown along with bad town play =/= scum
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Antitown along with bad town play =/= scum
But, you could argue lynching antitown and bad town play actually gives a net positive for town in some situations.
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Antitown along with bad town play =/= scum
But, you could argue lynching antitown and bad town play actually gives a net positive for town in some situations.
Although, of course the best thing would be to just not be antitown and playing badly.
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Antitown along with bad town play =/= scum
But, you could argue lynching antitown and bad town play actually gives a net positive for town in some situations.
That's true. But you should be open for searching scum along with it, not just "let's lynch LL, he's bad town player"
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Antitown along with bad town play =/= scum
But, you could argue lynching antitown and bad town play actually gives a net positive for town in some situations.
Although, of course the best thing would be to just not be antitown and playing badly.
Oh i wish it was as easy as you put it
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Antitown along with bad town play =/= scum
But, you could argue lynching antitown and bad town play actually gives a net positive for town in some situations.
That's true. But you should be open for searching scum along with it, not just "let's lynch LL, he's bad town player"
I don't think anyone is saying you have been antitown or playing badly as town. The people who are voting you legitimately think the way you got off WW's wagon was actually scummy, not antitown.
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Antitown along with bad town play =/= scum
But, you could argue lynching antitown and bad town play actually gives a net positive for town in some situations.
That's true. But you should be open for searching scum along with it, not just "let's lynch LL, he's bad town player"
I don't think anyone is saying you have been antitown or playing badly as town. The people who are voting you legitimately think the way you got off WW's wagon was actually scummy, not antitown.
You and gk yes. Wouldn't be so sure about Awaclus tho
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Awaclus, if you're town, don't you think you're biased on me? Will you reconsider if I flip town?
I don't think I'm biased. I also don't think you're going to flip town.
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You say reads, gut feel etc. is false science. But you're wrong now. Okay, bad example, you were wrong about TWM in NM10. Why? How came?
Because he posted this:
It looks like you identified something that you felt LA "scum slipped" and have voted him for that ever since. I went back to see if I could find something and couldn't.
In retrospect, it makes more sense for him to post this since he was a Jailkeeper, but it would have been a very strange perspective for a VT to take.
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Speaking of TWM in NM10, looks like he made the exact same quotefail there.
Generally I think I see what you are saying. But in this specific case, claiming or not claiming 1-shot BP isn't horrible.
quote author=schadd link=topic=17134.msg686220#msg686220 date=1491184928]
just to ruin this for everyone, current mafiascum meta is to claim 1-shot bulletproof immediately
[/quote]
I would have been fine not going down that road, but RR started us down it. And I think we should keep going. It isn't going to hurt the game for us and it might even help.
We can't erase how RR did or how people responded, what we can do is continue to move in that direction to town's best benefit.
So using the "there's just a square bracket missing" argument is pretty silly in that light.
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Theory question for anyone who feels like contributing to the game over the next few hours: should we be trying to lynch the other scum right now, or are there arguments for settling on a traitor lynch?
Are the people on the LL wagon of the opinion that he's scum-and-not-traitor?
I feel like we should try to lynch the other scum because now that the traitor has used their they are useless whereas the other scum has a NK as well as the ability to RB. I feel like the other scum is more dangerous so I think we should try to lynch then first.
I mean the only yhing they can roleblock now is a watcher, which isn't super powerful.
How is Watcher not super powerful?
I think if we catch scum, we should lynch them regardless of whether we think they are the traitor or the remaining other scum.
watcher isn't super powerful, because when it doesn't catch scum, it doesn't really help in POE. I guess it isn't horrible now that we know the setup and stuff actually.
More powerful than I thought when I made that first post, but the problem is that it doesn't IC people.
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Awaclus is strangely explanative. Gkrieg is fitting his "gkrieg's scum meta in LL head" perfectly.
Guys, let's lynch gk, plz. Especially if he's alive next day.
I don't get what you mean by the first part. And the second part is just not true. I've been at or around LYLO in a couple of the last few games as town, so me being alive D2 is definitely not a scum tell. Especially in a game where mafia doesn't know the traitor, so they change up their kills a little bit.
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Awaclus, if you're town, don't you think you're biased on me? Will you reconsider if I flip town?
Does town say this kind of thing? Town knows that whatever they have done is not from a scum mindset, so biases don't come to mind as much I would think.
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Antitown along with bad town play =/= scum
But, you could argue lynching antitown and bad town play actually gives a net positive for town in some situations.
I think this is the same argument of why faust rarely gets lynched, especially D1.
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Also people must be skimming my posts, because there is still a lot of stuff in there that people have failed to respond to.
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Also I thought Space was a little bit townie for their evaluation of the setup, until I saw the scum QT for newbie mafia, and now it is super duper null for me.
What is it in that QT that makes you think that the likelihood of me sharing town-useful information in the main thread as scum have gone up compared to before?
Your long analysis of wagons. You do big analyses as scum.
I analyse voting patterns every game nowadays. If you want me to post my total coloured-in rolling vote count for this game so far, I can do so later, but I only have that on my laptop, and I won't be back on that till I'm home after choir later tonight. (I assume I can put colour into a code tag, so as not to clog the thread too much, though I can't remember whether I've tried that before).
Anyway, in what way is my paying attention to votes related to how null or otherwise my breakdown of the setup probabilities is?
Well I would say that scum usually doesn't go to that much effort, but clearly you do.
Hmm. Do you see why your logic in this isn't tracking for me? I've been scum three times, and if you look at the level of planning that went on in the scum QT of NM8, it was probably more than in NM10.
I've also pointed out in previous games as town that I'm keeping a voting record, and corrected mods several times, to the point of noting one time that faust's incorrect vote count meant there was a missed hammer (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16564.msg663043#msg663043)... that was a bit of an unfortunate instance where I fell quite far behind on my personal rolling vote count and didn't notice till rather later that I disagreed with the mod.
Anyway, I feel like this isn't new behaviour for me, this is just me being a slightly pedantic data scientist. So what makes you want to explicitly null-read me for town play over it? That just feels wrong.
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Also people must be skimming my posts, because there is still a lot of stuff in there that people have failed to respond to.
If there's anything I've missed, feel free to point it out, though I've got to get to bed in about 20 mins because of another inconveniently early start (for a night owl) tomorrow.
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Awaclus, if you're town, don't you think you're biased on me? Will you reconsider if I flip town?
Does town say this kind of thing? Town knows that whatever they have done is not from a scum mindset, so biases don't come to mind as much I would think.
The "if I flip town" part of LL's sentence, rather than "when I flip town" seems mildly indicative of a non-town player, though I'm less confident with him than I would be with a native speaker.
You seem to be picking up on the "bias" part of it, rather than that, though, and in that part I really disagree. I certainly feel like on the occasions when you've misliynched me, or at least voted for me when we were both town, I've reminded you that we do seem to scumread each other easily. I may not have used the work "bias", but I feel that it fits perfectly well in the way LL used it.
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Can people who're awake a few hours from now send a prod Jimmmmm's way if he doesn't show up and write multiple sentences plaese? He's only made 9 posts total this game.
I've just checked, and he has no VLA in force, and none of his posts indicate that he's got time constraints. Is he usually this absent? (I've never played with him, so that's a genuine question for the old vets...).
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Also I thought Space was a little bit townie for their evaluation of the setup, until I saw the scum QT for newbie mafia, and now it is super duper null for me.
What is it in that QT that makes you think that the likelihood of me sharing town-useful information in the main thread as scum have gone up compared to before?
Your long analysis of wagons. You do big analyses as scum.
I analyse voting patterns every game nowadays. If you want me to post my total coloured-in rolling vote count for this game so far, I can do so later, but I only have that on my laptop, and I won't be back on that till I'm home after choir later tonight. (I assume I can put colour into a code tag, so as not to clog the thread too much, though I can't remember whether I've tried that before).
Anyway, in what way is my paying attention to votes related to how null or otherwise my breakdown of the setup probabilities is?
Well I would say that scum usually doesn't go to that much effort, but clearly you do.
Hmm. Do you see why your logic in this isn't tracking for me? I've been scum three times, and if you look at the level of planning that went on in the scum QT of NM8, it was probably more than in NM10.
I've also pointed out in previous games as town that I'm keeping a voting record, and corrected mods several times, to the point of noting one time that faust's incorrect vote count meant there was a missed hammer (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16564.msg663043#msg663043)... that was a bit of an unfortunate instance where I fell quite far behind on my personal rolling vote count and didn't notice till rather later that I disagreed with the mod.
Anyway, I feel like this isn't new behaviour for me, this is just me being a slightly pedantic data scientist. So what makes you want to explicitly null-read me for town play over it? That just feels wrong.
Something you do as both town and as scum means that I can't get alignment from it, which means that it is null. I feel like we are talking about two different things here honestly. And about something that isn't that big of a deal.
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Also people must be skimming my posts, because there is still a lot of stuff in there that people have failed to respond to.
If there's anything I've missed, feel free to point it out, though I've got to get to bed in about 20 mins because of another inconveniently early start (for a night owl) tomorrow.
I think it is just stuff addressed towards LaLight.
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Awaclus, if you're town, don't you think you're biased on me? Will you reconsider if I flip town?
Does town say this kind of thing? Town knows that whatever they have done is not from a scum mindset, so biases don't come to mind as much I would think.
The "if I flip town" part of LL's sentence, rather than "when I flip town" seems mildly indicative of a non-town player, though I'm less confident with him than I would be with a native speaker.
You seem to be picking up on the "bias" part of it, rather than that, though, and in that part I really disagree. I certainly feel like on the occasions when you've misliynched me, or at least voted for me when we were both town, I've reminded you that we do seem to scumread each other easily. I may not have used the work "bias", but I feel that it fits perfectly well in the way LL used it.
I just knew something in that post didn't sound right. I think if and when aren't really language things. So I don't know how much I agree with your native English speaker thing.
I think the bias thing is kind of strange though. Do LaLight and Awaclus have a history of scum-reading each other?
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Can people who're awake a few hours from now send a prod Jimmmmm's way if he doesn't show up and write multiple sentences plaese? He's only made 9 posts total this game.
I've just checked, and he has no VLA in force, and none of his posts indicate that he's got time constraints. Is he usually this absent? (I've never played with him, so that's a genuine question for the old vets...).
Unfortunately, he is often this absent in games. And he is usually town when he is this lurky (meaning that he does it as either alignment). I have also seen him be more active as both alignments, so it isn't a tell.
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Awaclus, if you're town, don't you think you're biased on me? Will you reconsider if I flip town?
Does town say this kind of thing? Town knows that whatever they have done is not from a scum mindset, so biases don't come to mind as much I would think.
The "if I flip town" part of LL's sentence, rather than "when I flip town" seems mildly indicative of a non-town player, though I'm less confident with him than I would be with a native speaker.
You seem to be picking up on the "bias" part of it, rather than that, though, and in that part I really disagree. I certainly feel like on the occasions when you've misliynched me, or at least voted for me when we were both town, I've reminded you that we do seem to scumread each other easily. I may not have used the work "bias", but I feel that it fits perfectly well in the way LL used it.
I just knew something in that post didn't sound right. I think if and when aren't really language things. So I don't know how much I agree with your native English speaker thing.
I think the bias thing is kind of strange though. Do LaLight and Awaclus have a history of scum-reading each other?
They very much are language things, in some languages they are interchangeable. I.e. In German, wenn can mean when or if, depending on context.
Could be a scumslip, but I'm not convinced it is.
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Although Google translate suggests that if and when aren't the same words in Russian.
Maybe if I spent as much time on the content of this game as I do researching random crap on the Internet, I'd be super active and useful.
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Something you do as both town and as scum means that I can't get alignment from it, which means that it is null. I feel like we are talking about two different things here honestly. And about something that isn't that big of a deal.
Can you pinpoint where I diverge from your train of thought below, then?
You said that you read the scum QT for NM10, and that seeing that I put effort into analysing wagons as scum changed your mind about my likely towniness here.
You now agree that me counting votes or coding up a generator are things I'll do as any alignment.
-- You seem to conflate the two, because in the scum QT I only showed evidence of vote-counting, but here you were specifically commenting on my coding-up of the generator and/or my posting of its outcome.
This implies that previously the thing you might otherwise have awarded townpoints for was the fact that I'd gone to the effort of coding up a generator, rather than merely the fact that I pasted its output into the thread. (I get to this conclusion because me posting townie results to the main thread as scum in NM10 didn't happen).
In contrast, I assert that the town-indicative thing about my sharing my probability distribution over configurations wasn't the fact that I made the effort to create it in the first place, but the fact that I shared the results in-thread, rather than keeping them just for me and my hypothetical parallel-universe scum buddies.
If you're town, I apologise for belabouring what is, I agree, a boring and unimportant point. However, in my experience, I don't usually push quite hard enough when something doesn't make sense, and I've identified a couple of places in my previous play where I haven't gone far enough down this sort of rabbit hole, so please do bear with me :-)
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Although Google translate suggests that if and when aren't the same words in Russian.
Maybe if I spent as much time on the content of this game as I do researching random crap on the Internet, I'd be super active and useful.
They are definitely different words in Russian
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Something you do as both town and as scum means that I can't get alignment from it, which means that it is null. I feel like we are talking about two different things here honestly. And about something that isn't that big of a deal.
Can you pinpoint where I diverge from your train of thought below, then?
You said that you read the scum QT for NM10, and that seeing that I put effort into analysing wagons as scum changed your mind about my likely towniness here.
You now agree that me counting votes or coding up a generator are things I'll do as any alignment.
-- You seem to conflate the two, because in the scum QT I only showed evidence of vote-counting, but here you were specifically commenting on my coding-up of the generator and/or my posting of its outcome.
This implies that previously the thing you might otherwise have awarded townpoints for was the fact that I'd gone to the effort of coding up a generator, rather than merely the fact that I pasted its output into the thread. (I get to this conclusion because me posting townie results to the main thread as scum in NM10 didn't happen).
In contrast, I assert that the town-indicative thing about my sharing my probability distribution over configurations wasn't the fact that I made the effort to create it in the first place, but the fact that I shared the results in-thread, rather than keeping them just for me and my hypothetical parallel-universe scum buddies.
If you're town, I apologise for belabouring what is, I agree, a boring and unimportant point. However, in my experience, I don't usually push quite hard enough when something doesn't make sense, and I've identified a couple of places in my previous play where I haven't gone far enough down this sort of rabbit hole, so please do bear with me :-)
I'm saying that the fact that you went to so much effort to make the simulator, is similar to what I saw you do with the voting patterns in NM10. I agree with you that I wasn't taking into account that one of them was posted in the main thread and that the other one wasn't, but you must've realized that someone could have made a simulator other than you and posted into the thread, which means that you would get town points for posting the results in the thread.
So what I'm saying is that you posting the results of your simulation and running the simulation in the first place is just evidence that you haven't been abducted by aliens more than it is an indication of your alignment.
I guess you get slight town points for posting the results in the thread, but like not a ton. It is something that I could see you doing as scum as well.
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Do LaLight and Awaclus have a history of scum-reading each other?
I just checked all the games we've played together and turns out we have a history of me reading him correctly literally every time. I don't think he has a particular history of reading me in any specific way. Although that does mean that I've been scumreading him a lot because he has been scum a lot, but I didn't scumread him in that one game where he was town.
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Do LaLight and Awaclus have a history of scum-reading each other?
I just checked all the games we've played together and turns out we have a history of me reading him correctly literally every time. I don't think he has a particular history of reading me in any specific way. Although that does mean that I've been scumreading him a lot because he has been scum a lot, but I didn't scumread him in that one game where he was town.
So you're saying that you don't have a bias toward reading him as scum?
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Do LaLight and Awaclus have a history of scum-reading each other?
I just checked all the games we've played together and turns out we have a history of me reading him correctly literally every time. I don't think he has a particular history of reading me in any specific way. Although that does mean that I've been scumreading him a lot because he has been scum a lot, but I didn't scumread him in that one game where he was town.
So you're saying that you don't have a bias toward reading him as scum?
Yeah.
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Do LaLight and Awaclus have a history of scum-reading each other?
I just checked all the games we've played together and turns out we have a history of me reading him correctly literally every time. I don't think he has a particular history of reading me in any specific way. Although that does mean that I've been scumreading him a lot because he has been scum a lot, but I didn't scumread him in that one game where he was town.
So you're saying that you don't have a bias toward reading him as scum?
Yeah.
So according to that logic, LL is scum?
There seems to be a lot of people vocal that LL is scum, and not many massively defending. But I genuinely don't think he's scum this game.
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I just don't see any arguments from which I should defend
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Awaclus is strangely explanative. Gkrieg is fitting his "gkrieg's scum meta in LL head" perfectly.
Guys, let's lynch gk, plz. Especially if he's alive next day.
I don't get what you mean by the first part. And the second part is just not true. I've been at or around LYLO in a couple of the last few games as town, so me being alive D2 is definitely not a scum tell. Especially in a game where mafia doesn't know the traitor, so they change up their kills a little bit.
First part is that I have the image of you being scum in my head and now you perfectly fit it.
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Do LaLight and Awaclus have a history of scum-reading each other?
I just checked all the games we've played together and turns out we have a history of me reading him correctly literally every time. I don't think he has a particular history of reading me in any specific way. Although that does mean that I've been scumreading him a lot because he has been scum a lot, but I didn't scumread him in that one game where he was town.
So you're saying that you don't have a bias toward reading him as scum?
Yeah.
So according to that logic, LL is scum?
There seems to be a lot of people vocal that LL is scum, and not many massively defending. But I genuinely don't think he's scum this game.
I am scum reading him, but I will admit he could potentially be town. I'm not so sure as to not be able to recognize the presence of a narrative for both alignments. However, so far, the way he got off the witherwagon is the single scummiest thing that has happened comparatively speaking (arguably except for RR's traitor comment, which ended up just being a bad attempt to wifom away his vig!slip), and so I have no reason to have my vote anywhere else at the moment.
PPE 2: Just noticed the time, and I hate the fact I'm still awake...
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1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + ... + n = n*(n+1)/2
Vote Count 2.4
LaLight (3): Awaclus, gkrieg13, Dylan32
gkrieg13 (2): Joseph2302, LaLight
Not Voting (3): SpaceAnemone, JaketheBaseballGod22, Jimmmmm
With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 2 ends May 6th at 3:30 am forum time. That's in ~45 hours.
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I was finding the way gkrieg was arguing for LaLight scummy. Now I'm finding LaLight scummy. I'm going to re-read again and post more in the next day or so, I promise!
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I just don't see any arguments from which I should defend
If you were town, you would be able to defend yourself without knowing why other people are voting for you.
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I don't know. I have indeed left that WWWagon but I am just unlucky WW flipped scum. I haven't known that beforehand and I thought that any other wagon would be just more informative. Looks like what's happening now is informative and you guys want to lynch me. So be it
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I don't know. I have indeed left that WWWagon but I am just unlucky WW flipped scum. I haven't known that beforehand and I thought that any other wagon would be just more informative. Looks like what's happening now is informative and you guys want to lynch me. So be it
Wait, WW flipped scum? I totally missed that.
That changes all my thinking and posts.
Rereading now to make sure I haven't missed anything else crucial to this game
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Wait, WW flipped scum? I totally missed that.
Yeah, the leading theory behind his death is that he was shot by the traitor. For that, we're looking for a player who's not paying a great deal of attention to the game, and maybe who has a tendency to play against their own faction's interests...
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Wait, WW flipped scum? I totally missed that.
Yeah, the leading theory behind his death is that he was shot by the traitor. For that, we're looking for a player who's not paying a great deal of attention to the game, and maybe who has a tendency to play against their own faction's interests...
I love this post.
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Wait, WW flipped scum? I totally missed that.
100%, if I were the traitor, I wouldn't have taken a crap shot on N1
Yeah, the leading theory behind his death is that he was shot by the traitor. For that, we're looking for a player who's not paying a great deal of attention to the game, and maybe who has a tendency to play against their own faction's interests...
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Wait, WW flipped scum? I totally missed that.
Yeah, the leading theory behind his death is that he was shot by the traitor. For that, we're looking for a player who's not paying a great deal of attention to the game, and maybe who has a tendency to play against their own faction's interests...
I would 100% not take a crapshoot on N1 as a vig.
I'm not the traitor.
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Wait, WW flipped scum? I totally missed that.
Yeah, the leading theory behind his death is that he was shot by the traitor. For that, we're looking for a player who's not paying a great deal of attention to the game, and maybe who has a tendency to play against their own faction's interests...
I love this post.
I don't.
It's highlighting that I'm an idiot, but the incorrect assumption is that I'm the traitor.
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I was finding the way gkrieg was arguing for LaLight scummy. Now I'm finding LaLight scummy. I'm going to re-read again and post more in the next day or so, I promise!
You have about 40 hours to do so!
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I was finding the way gkrieg was arguing for LaLight scummy. Now I'm finding LaLight scummy. I'm going to re-read again and post more in the next day or so, I promise!
You have about 40 hours to do so!
40 hours, is that it?
I'll definitely reread tonight.
By which I mean read properly and not miss vital details.
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If I was guessing the traitor right now, I'd probably say it's someone who's not paid much attention to the game. Other than me.
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I don't like the speed of the game. I mean the whole day went with me at L-2. I don't like this at all
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I don't like the speed of the game. I mean the whole day went with me at L-2. I don't like this at all
I think this is more evidence of you being scum
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I don't like the speed of the game. I mean the whole day went with me at L-2. I don't like this at all
I think this is more evidence of you being scum
Sure thing
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I don't like it because you will learn i'm town pretty soon and the whole say just was pointless.
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Whole day*
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I absolutely hated the early reasoning for LL being scum but with every post he seems more scummy. I still don't think he's scum but I am beginning to doubt my read.
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I don't like it because you will learn i'm town pretty soon and the whole say just was pointless.
I wouldn't say it was pointless. You have been a good wagon. One that people had to take sides on.
And now I think more about it the fact that your wagon has been stalled at L-2 doesn't actually tell us very much. The traitor doesn't know his partner and the partner doesn't know the traitor, so scum doesn't exactly know where to go. Although if they think you are scummy, they might try to not vote for you.
I'll have to think about it some more.
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I don't like it because you will learn i'm town pretty soon and the whole say just was pointless.
I wouldn't say it was pointless. You have been a good wagon. One that people had to take sides on.
And now I think more about it the fact that your wagon has been stalled at L-2 doesn't actually tell us very much. The traitor doesn't know his partner and the partner doesn't know the traitor, so scum doesn't exactly know where to go. Although if they think you are scummy, they might try to not vote for you.
I'll have to think about it some more.
I call thus a legit scumslip. vote: gkrieg13
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I absolutely hated the early reasoning for LL being scum but with every post he seems more scummy. I still don't think he's scum but I am beginning to doubt my read.
You should doubt it some more.
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I absolutely hated the early reasoning for LL being scum but with every post he seems more scummy. I still don't think he's scum but I am beginning to doubt my read.
You should vote for him.
^
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I don't like it because you will learn i'm town pretty soon and the whole say just was pointless.
I wouldn't say it was pointless. You have been a good wagon. One that people had to take sides on.
And now I think more about it the fact that your wagon has been stalled at L-2 doesn't actually tell us very much. The traitor doesn't know his partner and the partner doesn't know the traitor, so scum doesn't exactly know where to go. Although if they think you are scummy, they might try to not vote for you.
I'll have to think about it some more.
I call thus a legit scumslip. vote: gkrieg13
It's technically correct to use his instead of their in that sentence, because English doesn't have a singular, gender-neutral option. But singular they has been making a comeback. Using his is definitely not a scumslip.
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I don't, for a little bit, believe you're town, gkrieg
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I don't, for a little bit, believe you're town, gkrieg
So you believe you're bussing?
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I don't, for a little bit, believe you're town, gkrieg
So you believe you're bussing?
Impossible in a given gamestate, and in my given alignment. Though, to some extent you can call TvT bussing, this is not the case
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I don't, for a little bit, believe you're town, gkrieg
So you believe you're bussing?
Impossible in a given gamestate, and in my given alignment. Though, to some extent you can call TvT bussing, this is not the case
What's TvT?
Looks kind of like a kaomoji though ~(TvT~)
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I don't, for a little bit, believe you're town, gkrieg
So you believe you're bussing?
Impossible in a given gamestate, and in my given alignment. Though, to some extent you can call TvT bussing, this is not the case
What's TvT?
Looks kind of like a kaomoji though ~(TvT~)
Town vs Town. I love the emoji
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I don't, for a little bit, believe you're town, gkrieg
Better believe it!
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I don't, for a little bit, believe you're town, gkrieg
Better believe it!
Or what? You'll convince people to mislynch me? Go for it :)
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I'd put it this way: if I don't feel like we're in a team, gkrieg, then someone is scum. Not me this time! When we're both town, it's so very different, approve it
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All of your arguments for why you aren't scum are now hinging on "the people who think I'm scum are actually scum". Not a very strong point.
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I don't like it because you will learn i'm town pretty soon and the whole say just was pointless.
I wouldn't say it was pointless. You have been a good wagon. One that people had to take sides on.
And now I think more about it the fact that your wagon has been stalled at L-2 doesn't actually tell us very much. The traitor doesn't know his partner and the partner doesn't know the traitor, so scum doesn't exactly know where to go. Although if they think you are scummy, they might try to not vote for you.
I'll have to think about it some more.
I'm kind of glad you pointed out by yourself that the wagon being there but stalled is not in fact indicative of LL being scum. It was my first thought when catching up just now when I got to your post about how it probably makes LL scum.
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All of your arguments for why you aren't scum are now hinging on "the people who think I'm scum are actually scum". Not a very strong point.
I have done nothing scummy besides jumping off the wrong wagon. I am trying to scumhunt because I am trying to prove useful after death. And else: not a very strong point answering not very strong accusations
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I don't, for a little bit, believe you're town, gkrieg
So you believe you're bussing?
Impossible in a given gamestate, and in my given alignment. Though, to some extent you can call TvT bussing, this is not the case
I wasn't talking about town vs town "bussing", I was talking about non-traitor scum vs traitor bussing. Because if gkrieg isn't town, then he's got to be whichever one out of those two that you aren't.
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I have done nothing scummy besides jumping off the wrong wagon.
So your defense is that you have done a scummy thing.
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All of your arguments for why you aren't scum are now hinging on "the people who think I'm scum are actually scum". Not a very strong point.
Besides, what have you yourself done proving you're not scum other than accusing me?
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I have done nothing scummy besides jumping off the wrong wagon.
So your defense is that you have done a scummy thing.
Yes.
I am sorry if it is too much of you to ask for but please, may you promise me to go back and reread all my posts after my flip?
Thanks in advance!
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All of your arguments for why you aren't scum are now hinging on "the people who think I'm scum are actually scum". Not a very strong point.
Besides, what have you yourself done proving you're not scum other than accusing me?
I was not part of the RR mislynch, and was voting for scum at the end of the day. I'm clearly not the traitor, because I wouldn't have made that kill, which leaves me to just be the other scum. When you read my D1, I don't look like WW's partner. To be fair, there isn't much to go off of, but I'm definitely not the traitor.
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All of your arguments for why you aren't scum are now hinging on "the people who think I'm scum are actually scum". Not a very strong point.
Besides, what have you yourself done proving you're not scum other than accusing me?
And why does accusing you prove I'm not scum?
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All of your arguments for why you aren't scum are now hinging on "the people who think I'm scum are actually scum". Not a very strong point.
Besides, what have you yourself done proving you're not scum other than accusing me?
I was not part of the RR mislynch, and was voting for scum at the end of the day. I'm clearly not the traitor, because I wouldn't have made that kill, which leaves me to just be the other scum. When you read my D1, I don't look like WW's partner. To be fair, there isn't much to go off of, but I'm definitely not the traitor.
Your vote on WW was rvs, that's why you weren't part of rr mislynch and was on scum in EoD. That's odd argument.
Why wouldn't you make that kill? I don't get it.
No one looks like anyone's partner, what are tou talking about
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All of your arguments for why you aren't scum are now hinging on "the people who think I'm scum are actually scum". Not a very strong point.
Besides, what have you yourself done proving you're not scum other than accusing me?
And why does accusing you prove I'm not scum?
I mean this is all you've been doing instead of defending. You wagon is one vote short from mine
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Sorry for typos, phoneposting
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The fact I haven't jumped on a wagon doesn't mean I'm not scumreading some people. I feel like some people are inferring that those not voting don't think either of our current wagons has much validity.
Dylan -- seemed solid, but that's also what he does as scum. Leaning town for now.
Joseph -- got a lot of work to do to redeem himself, if he wants us to believe he's a useful townie after all. Looks traitorous for the time being.
Jimmmmm -- so absent he's just a null black void.
Space -- spaaaaaaaaace :-)
gkrieg -- pinging faint alarm bells, but then the people on his wagon are also not townie-looking, so I'm torn.
Awaclus -- more talkative than normal, but not really any easier to read for it. Null leaning town.
LaLight -- I see where all the scumreads are coming from, though all evidence at present is weak. He's on the scummy side of null to me, but he's a high-variance datapoint.
Jake -- has made sense and indicated independent thought, which means he's continuing to improve as a player and actually paying attention. Since he's got a lot of more-wacky meta he could fall back on if he wanted to play scummily, I think this puts him towards the townie end of my spectrum for now.
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Wait, I think I just caught something as I was catching up. But I'm going to have to channel my inner Awaclus and just say that if I noticed what I think I noticed, that I believe 100% LL is scum.
PPE 2
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Incidentally, who's likely to be around at the deadline?
It's 0830 on a Saturday for me, and that Friday is going to be my first evening to myself since at least last Friday, so the chances of me getting to bed early enough for 0830 on a Saturday to be awake time are nil. Which is to say I expect to be online till midnight or 1am my time tomorrow night (5pm/6pm forum time) and then asleep through till just after the deadline.
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Wait, I think I just caught something as I was catching up. But I'm going to have to channel my inner Awaclus and just say that if I noticed what I think I noticed, that I believe 100% LL is scum.
PPE 2
Ooh, exciting! Are you hoping for the rest of us just to believe you, or what?
I'm relieved to say I have no inner Awaclus, hence my recent reads post.
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Incidentally, who's likely to be around at the deadline?
It's 0830 on a Saturday for me, and that Friday is going to be my first evening to myself since at least last Friday, so the chances of me getting to bed early enough for 0830 on a Saturday to be awake time are nil. Which is to say I expect to be online till midnight or 1am my time tomorrow night (5pm/6pm forum time) and then asleep through till just after the deadline.
I will be there fwiw
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All of your arguments for why you aren't scum are now hinging on "the people who think I'm scum are actually scum". Not a very strong point.
Besides, what have you yourself done proving you're not scum other than accusing me?
I was not part of the RR mislynch, and was voting for scum at the end of the day. I'm clearly not the traitor, because I wouldn't have made that kill, which leaves me to just be the other scum. When you read my D1, I don't look like WW's partner. To be fair, there isn't much to go off of, but I'm definitely not the traitor.
Your vote on WW was rvs, that's why you weren't part of rr mislynch and was on scum in EoD. That's odd argument.
Why wouldn't you make that kill? I don't get it.
No one looks like anyone's partner, what are tou talking about
Uh, you don't shoot the only other person to give town any kind of read with your one vig shot D1. That one shot gave out crazy amounts of information, that could've otherwise been kept secret from town. Literally the worst shot possible. And way too early.
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I won't be around for the deadline.
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Wait, I think I just caught something as I was catching up. But I'm going to have to channel my inner Awaclus and just say that if I noticed what I think I noticed, that I believe 100% LL is scum.
PPE 2
Ooh, exciting! Are you hoping for the rest of us just to believe you, or what?
I'm relieved to say I have no inner Awaclus, hence my recent reads post.
I know it actually sucks and has no credibility, but I'm just saying I'm not likely going to change my vote unless something happens like the watcher says they saw something, which doesn't seem very likely at the moment. I do promise to explain tomorrow though regardless if I'm still alive.
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Also, on a normal Saturday, I would be around. Alas, this is no normal Saturday night, so I won't be.
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lim π_(n+k) (S^n) is finite for k > 0
Vote Count 2.4
LaLight (3): Awaclus, gkrieg13, Dylan32
gkrieg13 (2): Joseph2302, LaLight
Not Voting (3): SpaceAnemone, JaketheBaseballGod22, Jimmmmm
With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 2 ends May 6th at 3:30 am forum time. That's in ~36 hours.
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I am sorry if it is too much of you to ask for but please, may you promise me to go back and reread all my posts after my flip?
Sure. I do that anyway whenever someone flips.
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So, an attempt to do something useful this game:
- So the people on the early WW wagon were LL, gkrieg, Robz, me. Then LL left wagon and Awaclus & RR joined it.
- #88- LL declared RR is definitely scum- clearly wrong about that.
- Mislynch wagon was LaLight, JaketheBaseballGod22, Robz888, Dylan32, Joseph2302, Awaclus
- Someone shot WW, must be the traitor. Which begs the question who is ballsy/dumb enough to fire that shot N1? I'm thinking maybe Jake (because he seems crazy enough to shoot N1) or maybe Jimmmm (as he doesn't seem massively engaged with the game). Could also be LL, who thought WW was good, hence why he got off the wagon. I slightly prefer that theory.
- #142- LL claimed he was now IC, #143 he claimed I was bussing WW
- Lots of discussion about LL moving off WW wagon. If he is scum, it makes sense, and if he is traitor then also it kind of does.
- LL has spent most of the day on L-2, but no-one wants to unvote, and no-one has yet added votes. Hmm. That seems a bit odd IMO, but as the 2 scum don't know each other, that's not necessarily towny/scummy
- And people (Space) seem to think I'm traitor for sure. I understand the reason, but I 100% think taking that shot N1 would have been a bad traitor move.
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So for me the traitor is in {Jake, Jimmm, LL}.
And LL could actually just be the other scum.
So my lynch preferences right now would probably me LL > Jake > Jimmm > anyone else >> me
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Request: Vote Count since I don't want to vote without proper counting
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Request: Vote Count since I don't want to vote without proper counting
Wait are you srs? Like 3 posts up
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So, an attempt to do something useful this game:
- So the people on the early WW wagon were LL, gkrieg, Robz, me. Then LL left wagon and Awaclus & RR joined it.
- #88- LL declared RR is definitely scum- clearly wrong about that.
- Mislynch wagon was LaLight, JaketheBaseballGod22, Robz888, Dylan32, Joseph2302, Awaclus
- Someone shot WW, must be the traitor. Which begs the question who is ballsy/dumb enough to fire that shot N1? I'm thinking maybe Jake (because he seems crazy enough to shoot N1) or maybe Jimmmm (as he doesn't seem massively engaged with the game). Could also be LL, who thought WW was good, hence why he got off the wagon. I slightly prefer that theory.
- #142- LL claimed he was now IC, #143 he claimed I was bussing WW
- Lots of discussion about LL moving off WW wagon. If he is scum, it makes sense, and if he is traitor then also it kind of does.
- LL has spent most of the day on L-2, but no-one wants to unvote, and no-one has yet added votes. Hmm. That seems a bit odd IMO, but as the 2 scum don't know each other, that's not necessarily towny/scummy
- And people (Space) seem to think I'm traitor for sure. I understand the reason, but I 100% think taking that shot N1 would have been a bad traitor move.
How do you feel about other people in the game other than the people that you think are possibly the traitor?
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- Someone shot WW, must be the traitor. Which begs the question who is ballsy/dumb enough to fire that shot N1? I'm thinking maybe Jake (because he seems crazy enough to shoot N1) or maybe Jimmmm (as he doesn't seem massively engaged with the game). Could also be LL, who thought WW was good, hence why he got off the wagon. I slightly prefer that theory.
Talk me very slowly through your logic here. Traitor!LL doesn't want to lynch WW, because he thought WW was "good"? So that's why he unvoted. That's your leading theory, yes? The one you've pondered enough that you prefer it to other theories?
I think there's very little evidence for LL being the traitor, but comparatively more for him being WW's full partner.
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So, an attempt to do something useful this game:
- So the people on the early WW wagon were LL, gkrieg, Robz, me. Then LL left wagon and Awaclus & RR joined it.
- #88- LL declared RR is definitely scum- clearly wrong about that.
- Mislynch wagon was LaLight, JaketheBaseballGod22, Robz888, Dylan32, Joseph2302, Awaclus
- Someone shot WW, must be the traitor. Which begs the question who is ballsy/dumb enough to fire that shot N1? I'm thinking maybe Jake (because he seems crazy enough to shoot N1) or maybe Jimmmm (as he doesn't seem massively engaged with the game). Could also be LL, who thought WW was good, hence why he got off the wagon. I slightly prefer that theory.
- #142- LL claimed he was now IC, #143 he claimed I was bussing WW
- Lots of discussion about LL moving off WW wagon. If he is scum, it makes sense, and if he is traitor then also it kind of does.
- LL has spent most of the day on L-2, but no-one wants to unvote, and no-one has yet added votes. Hmm. That seems a bit odd IMO, but as the 2 scum don't know each other, that's not necessarily towny/scummy
- And people (Space) seem to think I'm traitor for sure. I understand the reason, but I 100% think taking that shot N1 would have been a bad traitor move.
How do you feel about other people in the game other than the people that you think are possibly the traitor?
Dylan32 - null
Joseph2302 - IC
SpaceAnemone - I think town but just wrong about me again. Getting the same feelings as last game when she was town & she was sure I was bad.
gkrieg13 - Could be scum bussing LL (although it's not really a bus since scum/traitor don't know each other)
Awaclus - seems to have posted more than is usual for him. Leaning slightly town
But I still think for today, it's easier to try & get traitor. We have info on them as they vigged N1.
PPE: 1
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Vote: Joseph
Saves me having to pick from existing wagons for the moment :-)
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I do think Joseph has some good analysis about the traitor though. I do think it is likely Jake or Jimmmm. Although Jimmmm is an experienced player, even though he is absent much of the time.
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Vote: Joseph
Saves me having to pick from existing wagons for the moment :-)
I mean I'm fine with that, but I would like you to weigh in vote-wise on one of the existing wagons.
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I do think Joseph has some good analysis about the traitor though. I do think it is likely Jake or Jimmmm. Although Jimmmm is an experienced player, even though he is absent much of the time.
Vote: Jake
Let's get a wagon against a possible traitor going
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Wait what. What happend to "Joseph is traitor" and now all of a sudden I am. First of all I would never shoot N1 with only one shoot. I would save that for a much more advantageous situation in the game or if I thought I would get lynched the next day. (I don't) Also if you look at my past history I'm extremely frugal with my pr uses especially if I have a limited amount of shots. If you look at M97 I was a two shot doctor and didn't use it N1 because it was too random that it's not advantageous. If I only had one shot there is no way I'd ever use it N1 especially as a just random shot. I can't wait until tomorrow to drop my theory's on who the traitor is. I'm decently sure I know who it is.
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I should be around again before deadline.
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Wait what. What happend to "Joseph is traitor" and now all of a sudden I am. First of all I would never shoot N1 with only one shoot. I would save that for a much more advantageous situation in the game or if I thought I would get lynched the next day. (I don't) Also if you look at my past history I'm extremely frugal with my pr uses especially if I have a limited amount of shots. If you look at M97 I was a two shot doctor and didn't use it N1 because it was too random that it's not advantageous. If I only had one shot there is no way I'd ever use it N1 especially as a just random shot. I can't wait until tomorrow to drop my theory's on who the traitor is. I'm decently sure I know who it is.
Why not just do that right now?
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Wait what. What happend to "Joseph is traitor" and now all of a sudden I am. First of all I would never shoot N1 with only one shoot. I would save that for a much more advantageous situation in the game or if I thought I would get lynched the next day. (I don't) Also if you look at my past history I'm extremely frugal with my pr uses especially if I have a limited amount of shots. If you look at M97 I was a two shot doctor and didn't use it N1 because it was too random that it's not advantageous. If I only had one shot there is no way I'd ever use it N1 especially as a just random shot. I can't wait until tomorrow to drop my theory's on who the traitor is. I'm decently sure I know who it is.
Why not just do that right now?
Especially because you aren't voting for anyone right now.
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Actually to the three who haven't voted at all today: that is unacceptable
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Actually to the three who haven't voted at all today: that is unacceptable
There are only two people who haven't voted. My vote is on Joseph, which is perhaps not what you'd like me to vote for, but it's my choice.
In other news, it was polling day for local elections in many parts of the UK today. Go democracy! :-)
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@Joseph, are you deliberately ignoring my request for you to clarify how your traitor reasoning works with respect to LL?
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I do think Joseph has some good analysis about the traitor though. I do think it is likely Jake or Jimmmm. Although Jimmmm is an experienced player, even though he is absent much of the time.
I'd like to hear what you thought of his case for LL being the traitor. Though please don't say anything at all on it till after Joseph himself has had a chance to explain what his reasoning was there.
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Also, you thought I was scum last game, and many other times too- have you ever been right about me being scum?
I tend to accuse you of anti-town play when you play in a way that is unhelpful to town... see my previous comment about low-utility-town meta :-)
The main point of having a "hey, I look bad as town, too" sort of cover is that it makes it easier for you to hide pro-scum play in games where that's relevant. As reasons for lynches go, I think "playing in a way that isn't good for town" is right up there with "making scum-slips", even if the former feels a bit more like a policy lynch.
On a somewhat related note, what particularly townie things have you contributed to the game?
I started WW wagon, which gave us information
And I put RR on L1 which seemed sensible given that he was so blatantly anti-town
I'm re-reading, and rediscovered this gem.
You were the fourth to arrive on the WW wagon, so "started" is an outright lie. Still, it appears to be an attempt to grab townpoints for having been instrumental in the almost-lynch of a scum.
... except that later in D2, you claimed surprise that WW had flipped town, and said that you'd need to completely re-read in order to reconcile that with your analysis, because apparently you'd thought he was town.
How does that work?
As for putting RR to L-1, he absolutely was not "blatantly" anti-town. He'd made a PR-slip! At worst, he was being confusing in his attempt at blustering humour with which to cover the slip, and voting for him is at best equally likely to come from town as from scum, so I don't buy it as a "townie" action at all.
(Is this one of those cases where I fail to understand what was actually meant to be a joke? If so, my genuine serious question still stands).
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Interesting observation: Joseph was (I think) the first person to apply the "I'd never usa a vig shot N1" argument. It has since been used by gkrieg and Jake.
Reading the setup post, the traitor loses their shot if they get recruited (either by being the night target or if the actual scums die). That means there probably is additional pressure for them to use it before they lose it. I find it interesting that nobody else is pointing this fact out. Presumably the traitor themself is well aware of that rule, though they may even use the "never that early" defense to look more townie.
Annoyingly, it does sort of make Joseph marginally less likely to be the traitor, unless he's playing a significantly less blundering game than he appears to be.
And with that thought, I'm going to sleep!
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Actually to the three who haven't voted at all today: that is unacceptable
Fine Vote: Gkrieg13
Wait what. What happend to "Joseph is traitor" and now all of a sudden I am. First of all I would never shoot N1 with only one shoot. I would save that for a much more advantageous situation in the game or if I thought I would get lynched the next day. (I don't) Also if you look at my past history I'm extremely frugal with my pr uses especially if I have a limited amount of shots. If you look at M97 I was a two shot doctor and didn't use it N1 because it was too random that it's not advantageous. If I only had one shot there is no way I'd ever use it N1 especially as a just random shot. I can't wait until tomorrow to drop my theory's on who the traitor is. I'm decently sure I know who it is.
Why not just do that right now?
Because I'd rather wait a day/night cycle to see if said person dies.
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But there isn't that much going on, so what is the point of waiting? I feel like today has just been me talking, while you haven't really said anything.
And just voting for me because I told you that it was not ok to not vote for an entire day is pretty scummy. Why do you think I'm scummy?
Why didn't you vote for me earlier in the day? Why didn't you vote for anyone earlier in the day?
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But there isn't that much going on, so what is the point of waiting? I feel like today has just been me talking, while you haven't really said anything.
And just voting for me because I told you that it was not ok to not vote for an entire day is pretty scummy. Why do you think I'm scummy?
Why didn't you vote for me earlier in the day? Why didn't you vote for anyone earlier in the day?
Do I have to always be voting? I would rather be not voting and then put my votes down later in the day. I didn't vote for anyone earlier in the day because none of the positions on early D2 were any good. Once I found a postion/case that I liked I voted there. I would rather wait till tomorrow to aggressively vote/go after someone until tomorrow when I have been able to see another NK/flip and see if they fit into my theory.
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Well not voting is antitown. It makes it hard to analyze anything. Wagons are good because without them we have no information on who would lynch whom, which is like the whole game.
We are basically playing a vanilla game at this point, so votes are all we have.
I mean look at the extremes. If no one voted until the very end of the day, how would we ever know where people stand. On the other hand, it would be informative if everyone was able to place many votes at once so we could see who is willing to lynch whom.
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But there isn't that much going on, so what is the point of waiting? I feel like today has just been me talking, while you haven't really said anything.
And just voting for me because I told you that it was not ok to not vote for an entire day is pretty scummy. Why do you think I'm scummy?
Why didn't you vote for me earlier in the day? Why didn't you vote for anyone earlier in the day?
Do I have to always be voting? I would rather be not voting and then put my votes down later in the day. I didn't vote for anyone earlier in the day because none of the positions on early D2 were any good. Once I found a postion/case that I liked I voted there. I would rather wait till tomorrow to aggressively vote/go after someone until tomorrow when I have been able to see another NK/flip and see if they fit into my theory.
I don't think I've ever seen Jake hesitate to vote like this. I think this might be a sign of scum (traitor specifically) not wanting to end up hitting scum with a lynch, so he doesn't want to actually vote. The D1 shot of WW (which seems to be generally agreed to have come from new and/or unengaged traitor) and this newfound resistance to voting makes me suspicious. If there's no way an LL lynch is going to happen, I could talk myself into going for Jake.
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But there isn't that much going on, so what is the point of waiting? I feel like today has just been me talking, while you haven't really said anything.
And just voting for me because I told you that it was not ok to not vote for an entire day is pretty scummy. Why do you think I'm scummy?
Why didn't you vote for me earlier in the day? Why didn't you vote for anyone earlier in the day?
Do I have to always be voting? I would rather be not voting and then put my votes down later in the day. I didn't vote for anyone earlier in the day because none of the positions on early D2 were any good. Once I found a postion/case that I liked I voted there. I would rather wait till tomorrow to aggressively vote/go after someone until tomorrow when I have been able to see another NK/flip and see if they fit into my theory.
I don't think I've ever seen Jake hesitate to vote like this. I think this might be a sign of scum (traitor specifically) not wanting to end up hitting scum with a lynch, so he doesn't want to actually vote. The D1 shot of WW (which seems to be generally agreed to have come from new and/or unengaged traitor) and this newfound resistance to voting makes me suspicious. If there's no way an LL lynch is going to happen, I could talk myself into going for Jake.
This accurately describes my feelings.
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Do I have to always be voting?
Yes.
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@Joseph, are you deliberately ignoring my request for you to clarify how your traitor reasoning works with respect to LL?
Somewhat purposely. I saw it yesterday, but by that time I wasn't sobre enough to give a decent response.
If LL is traitor and he thinks WW is town, then he's being clever by getting himself off of a mislynch wagon. But he can then use vig shot to shoot WW, and there's another person lynched. I.e. He gets more information, and the person he thinks is town still dies.
Of course, it turned out WW was scum, but we have to assume the traitor was pretty sure WW was town.
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@Joseph, are you deliberately ignoring my request for you to clarify how your traitor reasoning works with respect to LL?
Somewhat purposely. I saw it yesterday, but by that time I wasn't sobre enough to give a decent response.
If LL is traitor and he thinks WW is town, then he's being clever by getting himself off of a mislynch wagon. But he can then use vig shot to shoot WW, and there's another person lynched. I.e. He gets more information, and the person he thinks is town still dies.
Of course, it turned out WW was scum, but we have to assume the traitor was pretty sure WW was town.
Of which I obviously was not sure. How can anyone be sure that anyone else is town, unless it's an IC? Especially on D1?
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@Joseph, are you deliberately ignoring my request for you to clarify how your traitor reasoning works with respect to LL?
Somewhat purposely. I saw it yesterday, but by that time I wasn't sobre enough to give a decent response.
If LL is traitor and he thinks WW is town, then he's being clever by getting himself off of a mislynch wagon. But he can then use vig shot to shoot WW, and there's another person lynched. I.e. He gets more information, and the person he thinks is town still dies.
Of course, it turned out WW was scum, but we have to assume the traitor was pretty sure WW was town.
Of which I obviously was not sure. How can anyone be sure that anyone else is town, unless it's an IC? Especially on D1?
You might have had an idea a strong suspicion maybe? Or if you're bad, then you basically know (not 100% since traitor)
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Although right now I'd prefer a Jake/Jimmmmm lynch. Most likely traitors for me now, I do think LL traitor is slightly less likely.
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Deadline is 8am UK time, so I probably won't be around.
I should be around this evening (UK time)
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I mayyyybe will be here at the deadline.
Although right now I'd prefer a Jake/Jimmmmm lynch. Most likely traitors for me now, I do think LL traitor is slightly less likely.
So let me get this strait, you think I'm the traitor because I'm new. That could be said for at least half of the people in this game. If that's not why then why?
But there isn't that much going on, so what is the point of waiting? I feel like today has just been me talking, while you haven't really said anything.
And just voting for me because I told you that it was not ok to not vote for an entire day is pretty scummy. Why do you think I'm scummy?
Why didn't you vote for me earlier in the day? Why didn't you vote for anyone earlier in the day?
Do I have to always be voting? I would rather be not voting and then put my votes down later in the day. I didn't vote for anyone earlier in the day because none of the positions on early D2 were any good. Once I found a postion/case that I liked I voted there. I would rather wait till tomorrow to aggressively vote/go after someone until tomorrow when I have been able to see another NK/flip and see if they fit into my theory.
I don't think I've ever seen Jake hesitate to vote like this. I think this might be a sign of scum (traitor specifically) not wanting to end up hitting scum with a lynch, so he doesn't want to actually vote. The D1 shot of WW (which seems to be generally agreed to have come from new and/or unengaged traitor) and this newfound resistance to voting makes me suspicious. If there's no way an LL lynch is going to happen, I could talk myself into going for Jake.
This accurately describes my feelings.
Of course it does. Are you having a fun time moving from whatever wagon pops up to the next and not having any personal opinions?
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Although right now I'd prefer a Jake/Jimmmmm lynch. Most likely traitors for me now, I do think LL traitor is slightly less likely.
So let me get this strait, you think I'm the traitor because I'm new. That could be said for at least half of the people in this game. If that's not why then why?
I also think it's because you seem like you'd be willing to take the risk. Most of the experienced players would think that using the vig shot N1 is too dangerous, coz it could backfire. Like it did. If traitor hadn't used it, we'd have been in some deep shit right now.
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Although right now I'd prefer a Jake/Jimmmmm lynch. Most likely traitors for me now, I do think LL traitor is slightly less likely.
So let me get this strait, you think I'm the traitor because I'm new. That could be said for at least half of the people in this game. If that's not why then why?
I also think it's because you seem like you'd be willing to take the risk. Most of the experienced players would think that using the vig shot N1 is too dangerous, coz it could backfire. Like it did. If traitor hadn't used it, we'd have been in some deep shit right now.
Why would I take the risk? Look at my past games. I never use my shots for any role on D1 when I have a limited amount of them. I already made a super long post about why and how I wouldn't use the shot N1 yet you just seem to ignore that.
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Anyone can come up with reasons why they wouldn't use the shot and then shoot anyway.
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PSA: I have tomorrow off and mostly to myself. Please don't lynch me in my sleep.
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Anyone can come up with reasons why they wouldn't use the shot and then shoot anyway.
Agreed. And the more experienced people are less likely to shoot it IMO
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PSA: I have tomorrow off and mostly to myself. Please don't lynch me in my sleep.
How much "tomorrow" do you get for lynching in your timezone? The deadline is 3.30AM forum time, i.e. just over 12 hours for now.
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Every even natural number greater than 2 is the sum of 2 primes.
Vote Count 2.5
LaLight (3): Awaclus, gkrieg13, Dylan32
gkrieg13 (2): LaLight, JaketheBaseballGod22
Joseph2302 (1): SpaceAnemone
JaketheBaseballGod22 (1): Joseph2302
Not Voting (1): Jimmmmm
With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 2 ends May 6th at 3:30 am forum time. That's in 17 hours.
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@Joseph, are you deliberately ignoring my request for you to clarify how your traitor reasoning works with respect to LL?
Somewhat purposely. I saw it yesterday, but by that time I wasn't sobre enough to give a decent response.
If LL is traitor and he thinks WW is town, then he's being clever by getting himself off of a mislynch wagon. But he can then use vig shot to shoot WW, and there's another person lynched. I.e. He gets more information, and the person he thinks is town still dies.
Of course, it turned out WW was scum, but we have to assume the traitor was pretty sure WW was town.
Your logic is still horribly tenuous even without alcohol getting involved. What you're saying is that at post #80 in the thread, which is where LL switched his vote from WW to me, LL had such a convincing townread on WW that he formulated a plan to gain townpoints for cleverly and pointedly withdrawing support for the wagon. That's what you're saying, right?
By post #80, WW had made two whole posts in the entire game. The first actual game post in the thread was at post #49, and was LL. The second was at post #50, and that was where LL voted for WW. So that's 30 posts'-worth of playing in which LL formulated all this (in case you want to count things up in terms of how much PoE info he might also have gathered in that time). I think there's just nothing there to support your "leading theory" about how LL is the traitor.
OTOH, gkrieg was suggesting that LL moving his vote might be an indication he's WW's partner. I can see that idea much more clearly, because in that case, LL knows WW's alignment and knows he doesn't want the wagon to succeed. I feel like you've seen gkrieg making an argument about how LL's vote was scummy, changed it around a bit so you can pretend it's original insight, and then suddenly had to retrofit a sub-par excuse to it after the fact.
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Day 2 ends May 6th at 3:30 am forum time. That's in 17 hours.[/b]
I forgot to account for the fact that I'm 5 hours ahead of forum time. Now we see why I like working with other people to confirm my numbers!
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I mayyyybe will be here at the deadline.
Although right now I'd prefer a Jake/Jimmmmm lynch. Most likely traitors for me now, I do think LL traitor is slightly less likely.
So let me get this strait, you think I'm the traitor because I'm new. That could be said for at least half of the people in this game. If that's not why then why?
But there isn't that much going on, so what is the point of waiting? I feel like today has just been me talking, while you haven't really said anything.
And just voting for me because I told you that it was not ok to not vote for an entire day is pretty scummy. Why do you think I'm scummy?
Why didn't you vote for me earlier in the day? Why didn't you vote for anyone earlier in the day?
Do I have to always be voting? I would rather be not voting and then put my votes down later in the day. I didn't vote for anyone earlier in the day because none of the positions on early D2 were any good. Once I found a postion/case that I liked I voted there. I would rather wait till tomorrow to aggressively vote/go after someone until tomorrow when I have been able to see another NK/flip and see if they fit into my theory.
I don't think I've ever seen Jake hesitate to vote like this. I think this might be a sign of scum (traitor specifically) not wanting to end up hitting scum with a lynch, so he doesn't want to actually vote. The D1 shot of WW (which seems to be generally agreed to have come from new and/or unengaged traitor) and this newfound resistance to voting makes me suspicious. If there's no way an LL lynch is going to happen, I could talk myself into going for Jake.
This accurately describes my feelings.
Of course it does. Are you having a fun time moving from whatever wagon pops up to the next and not having any personal opinions?
Lol. Have you like read the thread? I think I have more than half the posts today! It is full of my personal opinions, and it's not like I've been jumping from wagon to wagon.
Can you show any evidence that this is the case? Where else have you seen this behavior from me?
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PSA: I have tomorrow off and mostly to myself. Please don't lynch me in my sleep.
PSA: when I'm at a computer I will put together all of your posts.
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Although right now I'd prefer a Jake/Jimmmmm lynch. Most likely traitors for me now, I do think LL traitor is slightly less likely.
In my conspiracy theory brain, this points slightly to traitor!Joseph if LaLight flips scum. Of course the traitor wants us to look for the traitor as long as we aren't looking at him!
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I mayyyybe will be here at the deadline.
Although right now I'd prefer a Jake/Jimmmmm lynch. Most likely traitors for me now, I do think LL traitor is slightly less likely.
So let me get this strait, you think I'm the traitor because I'm new. That could be said for at least half of the people in this game. If that's not why then why?
But there isn't that much going on, so what is the point of waiting? I feel like today has just been me talking, while you haven't really said anything.
And just voting for me because I told you that it was not ok to not vote for an entire day is pretty scummy. Why do you think I'm scummy?
Why didn't you vote for me earlier in the day? Why didn't you vote for anyone earlier in the day?
Do I have to always be voting? I would rather be not voting and then put my votes down later in the day. I didn't vote for anyone earlier in the day because none of the positions on early D2 were any good. Once I found a postion/case that I liked I voted there. I would rather wait till tomorrow to aggressively vote/go after someone until tomorrow when I have been able to see another NK/flip and see if they fit into my theory.
I don't think I've ever seen Jake hesitate to vote like this. I think this might be a sign of scum (traitor specifically) not wanting to end up hitting scum with a lynch, so he doesn't want to actually vote. The D1 shot of WW (which seems to be generally agreed to have come from new and/or unengaged traitor) and this newfound resistance to voting makes me suspicious. If there's no way an LL lynch is going to happen, I could talk myself into going for Jake.
This accurately describes my feelings.
Of course it does. Are you having a fun time moving from whatever wagon pops up to the next and not having any personal opinions?
Lol. Have you like read the thread? I think I have more than half the posts today! It is full of my personal opinions, and it's not like I've been jumping from wagon to wagon.
Can you show any evidence that this is the case? Where else have you seen this behavior from me?
First you went really hard on LL but know you don't even talk about him any more. As soon as Joseph said that he thought I was the traitor you say "oh yeah That's how I feel" even though you never even hinted at that opinion before.
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I've already talked about LaLight for like 10 pages, and could only convince 2 others to vote for him, and no other people have indicated that they will vote for him so I'm looking at other options. Plus when we have two scum left, looking for two people is very reasonable.
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Also could you find where I stopped voting for LaLight? Could you quote it for me? With the amount of information we have, there isn't much more to talk about with LaLight, unless you want to add some of your own insights.
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Also could you find where I stopped voting for LaLight? Could you quote it for me? With the amount of information we have, there isn't much more to talk about with LaLight, unless you want to add some of your own insights.
I already said I found his flailing after being pressured mildly scummy but much of the early reasoning quite towny. I will not be around on the deadline unfortunately. 3:30 is just to late to stay up. I think right now my most preferred lynch would be LL but I could also be open to you or Joseph.
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Also could you find where I stopped voting for LaLight? Could you quote it for me? With the amount of information we have, there isn't much more to talk about with LaLight, unless you want to add some of your own insights.
I already said I found his flailing after being pressured mildly scummy but much of the early reasoning quite towny. I will not be around on the deadline unfortunately. 3:30 is just to late to stay up. I think right now my most preferred lynch would be LL but I could also be open to you or Joseph.
If your preferred lynch is LaLight, why are you still voting for me?
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Also could you find where I stopped voting for LaLight? Could you quote it for me? With the amount of information we have, there isn't much more to talk about with LaLight, unless you want to add some of your own insights.
I already said I found his flailing after being pressured mildly scummy but much of the early reasoning quite towny. I will not be around on the deadline unfortunately. 3:30 is just to late to stay up. I think right now my most preferred lynch would be LL but I could also be open to you or Joseph.
If your preferred lynch is LaLight, why are you still voting for me?
Vote: LL THIS IS L-1
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not claiming.
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not claiming.
Well you are either the watcher, or going to claim VT, so not too exciting. If you were the watcher, you probably would've claimed before now.
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Woo!
Vote: Robz
Always scum.
anyway, i am finally town again which really makes me happy.
vote: WW, happy to see you again!
Actually serious Vote: LaLight
Scum is much more likely to say this than Town.
The forum seems to be loading better now; I'll catch up later today.
My only comments at this point are: If you're quoting USE THE PREVIEW BUTTON. Also don't be so willing to lynch people over very minor things very early into D1. Sadly these are just as likely bad Town plays as scum plays.
Vote: Joseph
Attempted Townslip.
Oh wait, I misunderstood. Never mind. Unvote
In answer to your question, no. If the Watcher is matched to anything else, there are no more edges for Mafia Knows Traitor.
No matter their alignment I don't think anyone would have actually hammered. I know I wouldn't have and I am pretty sure LL wouldn't have ethier.
But you also have to look at what LaLight did instead of hammering. He started pushing for RR, which is exactly what a partner does when their buddy is closish to being lynched.
Wait... instead of hammering who?
I was finding the way gkrieg was arguing for LaLight scummy. Now I'm finding LaLight scummy. I'm going to re-read again and post more in the next day or so, I promise!
PSA: I have tomorrow off and mostly to myself. Please don't lynch me in my sleep.
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We really need more to go on Jimmmm.
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post count (I was curious):
Jimmmm: 11
Awaclus: 41
gkrieg13: 80
Dylan: 31
LaLight: 83
Joseph: 48
Space: 40
Jake: 20
So, I guess I don't have as many posts as I thought...
But either way, LaLight and I have almost as many as the rest combined.
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I may put all of Jake's posts in one place next.
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That's a lot of false contribution.
Posts of Jimmmmm without any results, vote count without any results, Jake's posts. You do mechanical work to take towncred. Town!gkrieg has more conclusions in his posts than quotes combined
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Post count*
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Thanks space.
Speaking of stuff, is it common practice for vigs to shoot N2? I can totally see myself making one too many joke and getting gunned down.
Scummy Vote: RR maybe if you don't want to get shoot, don't make so may jokes.
Wow that's was a quick day. RR actually looks like scum traitor to me.
Lol That day/night was terrible and also very good. Losing two of our three Pr's sucked but getting scum D1/N1 is also a massive boost for town and makes it much easier for a town win.
feels so good to be in a game again! And I am still not scumread by Awaclus!
Though feel free to lynch this guy in my semiabsence.
I am IC now
Please stop. Your not a IC.
The guy's vla, what do you want to achieve with the wagon? vote: SA
This is scummy.
RR is scum. I am ready to eat my tie on it. fully serious vote: RR
More scummy.
Also the height of the WW wagon was: gkrieg, Robz, Joseph, Awaclus, RR
So people not on wagon that aren't dead are: LaLight, Space, Jimmmmm, Jake.
I would be willing to bet that the partner is not on the wagon, and that the traitor is on the wagon.
Day 1 Final Vote Count
Witherweaver (1): gkrieg13
LaLight (2): Witherweaver, Jimmmmm
Jimmmmm (1): SpaceAnemone
Roadrunner7671 (6): LaLight, JaketheBaseballGod22, Robz888, Dylan32, Joseph2302, Awaclus
Not Voting (1): Roadrunner7671
With 11 alive, it took 6 to lynch.
And here is the EoD wagon. People on the mislynch who could've hammered WW are: LaLight, Jake.
vote: LaLight
I would never have hammered anyone this early on a Day.
Sorry for lack of posting I haven't been able to get on the forum until this morning. I think the reasoning for why LL is scum is awful. How can you expect someone to hammer a rvs wagon?
Sorry for lack of posting I haven't been able to get on the forum until this morning. I think the reasoning for why LL is scum is awful. How can you expect someone to hammer a rvs wagon?
It wasn't necessarily a RVs wagon. RR had given strong indication he was the traitor, as he was fishing for information.
Although I don't think LL is scummy based on RR wagon.
The WW wagon not RR wagon.
The guy's vla, what do you want to achieve with the wagon? vote: SA
This is scummy.
RR is scum. I am ready to eat my tie on it. fully serious vote: RR
More scummy.
Also the height of the WW wagon was: gkrieg, Robz, Joseph, Awaclus, RR
So people not on wagon that aren't dead are: LaLight, Space, Jimmmmm, Jake.
I would be willing to bet that the partner is not on the wagon, and that the traitor is on the wagon.
Day 1 Final Vote Count
Witherweaver (1): gkrieg13
LaLight (2): Witherweaver, Jimmmmm
Jimmmmm (1): SpaceAnemone
Roadrunner7671 (6): LaLight, JaketheBaseballGod22, Robz888, Dylan32, Joseph2302, Awaclus
Not Voting (1): Roadrunner7671
With 11 alive, it took 6 to lynch.
And here is the EoD wagon. People on the mislynch who could've hammered WW are: LaLight, Jake.
vote: LaLight
This is what I'm talking about. This reasoning is soooooooo flawed. I mean look at the votes on the WW wagon:
Vote: WW to make it a proper wagon.
This is a rvs vote. Then the very next post:
Vote: WW
Wagons are fun
then this
The guy's vla, what do you want to achieve with the wagon?
What do you not want to achieve with the wagon? Vote: WW
Vote: WW
Sorry. I lied about him being at L1, but I want my statement to be true.
I mean how can you expect someone to hammer a person after those are votes that put them on L-1. Especially after how little time had passed in the game.
No matter their alignment I don't think anyone would have actually hammered. I know I wouldn't have and I am pretty sure LL wouldn't have ethier.
Sorry for lack of posting I haven't been able to get on the forum until this morning. I think the reasoning for why LL is scum is awful. How can you expect someone to hammer a rvs wagon?
I'll ask this again, are there any better reasons for anyone else being scum? Like no one has offered ANYTHING else.
Idk how about your non stop targeting of LL who I think has been pretty town. Scum usually bases their cases off weak reasoning. This case is based off of weak reasoning. You look pretty scummy to me right now
Theory question for anyone who feels like contributing to the game over the next few hours: should we be trying to lynch the other scum right now, or are there arguments for settling on a traitor lynch?
Are the people on the LL wagon of the opinion that he's scum-and-not-traitor?
I feel like we should try to lynch the other scum because now that the traitor has used their they are useless whereas the other scum has a NK as well as the ability to RB. I feel like the other scum is more dangerous so I think we should try to lynch then first.
Theory question for anyone who feels like contributing to the game over the next few hours: should we be trying to lynch the other scum right now, or are there arguments for settling on a traitor lynch?
Are the people on the LL wagon of the opinion that he's scum-and-not-traitor?
I feel like we should try to lynch the other scum because now that the traitor has used their they are useless whereas the other scum has a NK as well as the ability to RB. I feel like the other scum is more dangerous so I think we should try to lynch then first.
When the last scum-not-traitor is lynched, the traitor inherits the NK if I'm not mistaken, so no matter which order they are killed, scum has 1 NK per night from now on.
Yes but last scum also has RB ability.
I absolutely hated the early reasoning for LL being scum but with every post he seems more scummy. I still don't think he's scum but I am beginning to doubt my read.
Wait what. What happend to "Joseph is traitor" and now all of a sudden I am. First of all I would never shoot N1 with only one shoot. I would save that for a much more advantageous situation in the game or if I thought I would get lynched the next day. (I don't) Also if you look at my past history I'm extremely frugal with my pr uses especially if I have a limited amount of shots. If you look at M97 I was a two shot doctor and didn't use it N1 because it was too random that it's not advantageous. If I only had one shot there is no way I'd ever use it N1 especially as a just random shot. I can't wait until tomorrow to drop my theory's on who the traitor is. I'm decently sure I know who it is.
Actually to the three who haven't voted at all today: that is unacceptable
Fine Vote: Gkrieg13
Wait what. What happend to "Joseph is traitor" and now all of a sudden I am. First of all I would never shoot N1 with only one shoot. I would save that for a much more advantageous situation in the game or if I thought I would get lynched the next day. (I don't) Also if you look at my past history I'm extremely frugal with my pr uses especially if I have a limited amount of shots. If you look at M97 I was a two shot doctor and didn't use it N1 because it was too random that it's not advantageous. If I only had one shot there is no way I'd ever use it N1 especially as a just random shot. I can't wait until tomorrow to drop my theory's on who the traitor is. I'm decently sure I know who it is.
Why not just do that right now?
Because I'd rather wait a day/night cycle to see if said person dies.
But there isn't that much going on, so what is the point of waiting? I feel like today has just been me talking, while you haven't really said anything.
And just voting for me because I told you that it was not ok to not vote for an entire day is pretty scummy. Why do you think I'm scummy?
Why didn't you vote for me earlier in the day? Why didn't you vote for anyone earlier in the day?
Do I have to always be voting? I would rather be not voting and then put my votes down later in the day. I didn't vote for anyone earlier in the day because none of the positions on early D2 were any good. Once I found a postion/case that I liked I voted there. I would rather wait till tomorrow to aggressively vote/go after someone until tomorrow when I have been able to see another NK/flip and see if they fit into my theory.
I mayyyybe will be here at the deadline.
Although right now I'd prefer a Jake/Jimmmmm lynch. Most likely traitors for me now, I do think LL traitor is slightly less likely.
So let me get this strait, you think I'm the traitor because I'm new. That could be said for at least half of the people in this game. If that's not why then why?
But there isn't that much going on, so what is the point of waiting? I feel like today has just been me talking, while you haven't really said anything.
And just voting for me because I told you that it was not ok to not vote for an entire day is pretty scummy. Why do you think I'm scummy?
Why didn't you vote for me earlier in the day? Why didn't you vote for anyone earlier in the day?
Do I have to always be voting? I would rather be not voting and then put my votes down later in the day. I didn't vote for anyone earlier in the day because none of the positions on early D2 were any good. Once I found a postion/case that I liked I voted there. I would rather wait till tomorrow to aggressively vote/go after someone until tomorrow when I have been able to see another NK/flip and see if they fit into my theory.
I don't think I've ever seen Jake hesitate to vote like this. I think this might be a sign of scum (traitor specifically) not wanting to end up hitting scum with a lynch, so he doesn't want to actually vote. The D1 shot of WW (which seems to be generally agreed to have come from new and/or unengaged traitor) and this newfound resistance to voting makes me suspicious. If there's no way an LL lynch is going to happen, I could talk myself into going for Jake.
This accurately describes my feelings.
Of course it does. Are you having a fun time moving from whatever wagon pops up to the next and not having any personal opinions?
Although right now I'd prefer a Jake/Jimmmmm lynch. Most likely traitors for me now, I do think LL traitor is slightly less likely.
So let me get this strait, you think I'm the traitor because I'm new. That could be said for at least half of the people in this game. If that's not why then why?
I also think it's because you seem like you'd be willing to take the risk. Most of the experienced players would think that using the vig shot N1 is too dangerous, coz it could backfire. Like it did. If traitor hadn't used it, we'd have been in some deep shit right now.
Why would I take the risk? Look at my past games. I never use my shots for any role on D1 when I have a limited amount of them. I already made a super long post about why and how I wouldn't use the shot N1 yet you just seem to ignore that.
I mayyyybe will be here at the deadline.
Although right now I'd prefer a Jake/Jimmmmm lynch. Most likely traitors for me now, I do think LL traitor is slightly less likely.
So let me get this strait, you think I'm the traitor because I'm new. That could be said for at least half of the people in this game. If that's not why then why?
But there isn't that much going on, so what is the point of waiting? I feel like today has just been me talking, while you haven't really said anything.
And just voting for me because I told you that it was not ok to not vote for an entire day is pretty scummy. Why do you think I'm scummy?
Why didn't you vote for me earlier in the day? Why didn't you vote for anyone earlier in the day?
Do I have to always be voting? I would rather be not voting and then put my votes down later in the day. I didn't vote for anyone earlier in the day because none of the positions on early D2 were any good. Once I found a postion/case that I liked I voted there. I would rather wait till tomorrow to aggressively vote/go after someone until tomorrow when I have been able to see another NK/flip and see if they fit into my theory.
I don't think I've ever seen Jake hesitate to vote like this. I think this might be a sign of scum (traitor specifically) not wanting to end up hitting scum with a lynch, so he doesn't want to actually vote. The D1 shot of WW (which seems to be generally agreed to have come from new and/or unengaged traitor) and this newfound resistance to voting makes me suspicious. If there's no way an LL lynch is going to happen, I could talk myself into going for Jake.
This accurately describes my feelings.
Of course it does. Are you having a fun time moving from whatever wagon pops up to the next and not having any personal opinions?
Lol. Have you like read the thread? I think I have more than half the posts today! It is full of my personal opinions, and it's not like I've been jumping from wagon to wagon.
Can you show any evidence that this is the case? Where else have you seen this behavior from me?
First you went really hard on LL but know you don't even talk about him any more. As soon as Joseph said that he thought I was the traitor you say "oh yeah That's how I feel" even though you never even hinted at that opinion before.
Also could you find where I stopped voting for LaLight? Could you quote it for me? With the amount of information we have, there isn't much more to talk about with LaLight, unless you want to add some of your own insights.
I already said I found his flailing after being pressured mildly scummy but much of the early reasoning quite towny. I will not be around on the deadline unfortunately. 3:30 is just to late to stay up. I think right now my most preferred lynch would be LL but I could also be open to you or Joseph.
Also could you find where I stopped voting for LaLight? Could you quote it for me? With the amount of information we have, there isn't much more to talk about with LaLight, unless you want to add some of your own insights.
I already said I found his flailing after being pressured mildly scummy but much of the early reasoning quite towny. I will not be around on the deadline unfortunately. 3:30 is just to late to stay up. I think right now my most preferred lynch would be LL but I could also be open to you or Joseph.
If your preferred lynch is LaLight, why are you still voting for me?
Vote: LL THIS IS L-1
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That's a lot of false contribution.
Posts of Jimmmmm without any results, vote count without any results, Jake's posts. You do mechanical work to take towncred. Town!gkrieg has more conclusions in his posts than quotes combined
Oh calm down. I'm doing this part while I'm at a computer and feel like doing it. The conclusions and analysis are on their way.
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That's a lot of false contribution.
Posts of Jimmmmm without any results, vote count without any results, Jake's posts. You do mechanical work to take towncred. Town!gkrieg has more conclusions in his posts than quotes combined
Oh calm down. I'm doing this part while I'm at a computer and feel like doing it. The conclusions and analysis are on their way.
I'm pretty calm :) it's just not town!you (or my reads are still shit) the further the more it's not you
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That's a lot of false contribution.
Posts of Jimmmmm without any results, vote count without any results, Jake's posts. You do mechanical work to take towncred. Town!gkrieg has more conclusions in his posts than quotes combined
Oh calm down. I'm doing this part while I'm at a computer and feel like doing it. The conclusions and analysis are on their way.
I'm pretty calm :) it's just not town!you (or my reads are still shit) the further the more it's not you
I very rarely do meaningless things for towncred anyway. As either alignment.
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That's a lot of false contribution.
Posts of Jimmmmm without any results, vote count without any results, Jake's posts. You do mechanical work to take towncred. Town!gkrieg has more conclusions in his posts than quotes combined
Oh calm down. I'm doing this part while I'm at a computer and feel like doing it. The conclusions and analysis are on their way.
I'm pretty calm :) it's just not town!you (or my reads are still shit) the further the more it's not you
I very rarely do meaningless things for towncred anyway. As either alignment.
Good thing that you are aware of that so you can make couple of meaningless posts without fear
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So with Jimmm's quotes, it seems to me like he is actually trying to figure out the game when he does post. He seems very geniune, so I don't want to lynch him today.
But he still needs to contribute a lot more.
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That's a lot of false contribution.
Posts of Jimmmmm without any results, vote count without any results, Jake's posts. You do mechanical work to take towncred. Town!gkrieg has more conclusions in his posts than quotes combined
Oh calm down. I'm doing this part while I'm at a computer and feel like doing it. The conclusions and analysis are on their way.
I'm pretty calm :) it's just not town!you (or my reads are still shit) the further the more it's not you
I very rarely do meaningless things for towncred anyway. As either alignment.
Good thing that you are aware of that so you can make couple of meaningless posts without fear
Remember the time where I got mislynched D1 because people thought I had too much 'fluff'?
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That's a lot of false contribution.
Posts of Jimmmmm without any results, vote count without any results, Jake's posts. You do mechanical work to take towncred. Town!gkrieg has more conclusions in his posts than quotes combined
Oh calm down. I'm doing this part while I'm at a computer and feel like doing it. The conclusions and analysis are on their way.
I'm pretty calm :) it's just not town!you (or my reads are still shit) the further the more it's not you
I very rarely do meaningless things for towncred anyway. As either alignment.
Good thing that you are aware of that so you can make couple of meaningless posts without fear
Remember the time where I got mislynched D1 because people thought I had too much 'fluff'?
Not really. Although the fact, that such a game exists proves you lied saying you don't do meaningless posts as either alignment.
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So Jake has a pretty clear arc on reading LaLight D2.
@Jake why did LaLight go from notIC (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17194.msg690962#msg690962) -> pretty townie (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17194.msg691683#msg691683) -> "getting more scummy, I'm beginning to doubt my town read" (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17194.msg691860#msg691860) -> "I prefer to lynch LaLight" (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17194.msg692134#msg692134)
You haven't really given very many reasons, except that you felt that he was "flailing", which is a weak reason and as you said "scum base their cases on weak reasoning" (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17194.msg691683#msg691683)
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That's a lot of false contribution.
Posts of Jimmmmm without any results, vote count without any results, Jake's posts. You do mechanical work to take towncred. Town!gkrieg has more conclusions in his posts than quotes combined
Oh calm down. I'm doing this part while I'm at a computer and feel like doing it. The conclusions and analysis are on their way.
I'm pretty calm :) it's just not town!you (or my reads are still shit) the further the more it's not you
I very rarely do meaningless things for towncred anyway. As either alignment.
Good thing that you are aware of that so you can make couple of meaningless posts without fear
Remember the time where I got mislynched D1 because people thought I had too much 'fluff'?
Not really. Although the fact, that such a game exists proves you lied saying you don't do meaningless posts as either alignment.
Not what I said, I said that I don't do them for towncred.
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Also @Jake
Why were none of the early D2 positions on wagons any good?
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17194.msg692031#msg692031
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And why have you been so cautious voting this game, but you haven't been cautious voting in your previous town games?
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And why have you been so cautious voting this game, but you haven't been cautious voting in your previous town games?
Because to me voting without a strong belief in ones scummyness is more so a false vote because it does not accurately reflect your feelings. That's why I waited to vote LL until I felt more confident about his scumminness.
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post count (I was curious):
Jimmmm: 11
Awaclus: 41
gkrieg13: 80
Dylan: 31
LaLight: 83
Joseph: 48
Space: 40
Jake: 20
So, I guess I don't have as many posts as I thought...
But either way, LaLight and I have almost as many as the rest combined.
I'm #3 on the list?! Man we need more posting.....
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Also @Jake
Why were none of the early D2 positions on wagons any good?
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17194.msg692031#msg692031
Well the early wagon was LL and as I have previously stated I saw the early reasoning for him being scum as flawed and not accurate.
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And why have you been so cautious voting this game, but you haven't been cautious voting in your previous town games?
Because to me voting without a strong belief in ones scummyness is more so a false vote because it does not accurately reflect your feelings. That's why I waited to vote LL until I felt more confident about his scumminness.
But then why do you ever participate in RVS?
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So Jake has a pretty clear arc on reading LaLight D2.
@Jake why did LaLight go from notIC (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17194.msg690962#msg690962) -> pretty townie (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17194.msg691683#msg691683) -> "getting more scummy, I'm beginning to doubt my town read" (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17194.msg691860#msg691860) -> "I prefer to lynch LaLight" (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17194.msg692134#msg692134)
You haven't really given very many reasons, except that you felt that he was "flailing", which is a weak reason and as you said "scum base their cases on weak reasoning" (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17194.msg691683#msg691683)
I'm not going to formally quote here so I'll just give post numbers.
Post 287 was really scummy to me from LL because he misrepresents awaclus there by saying he tunneled him. (False) Then 288 dylan points this out and in 289 LL quickly trys to defend his statement.
At 298 he says that the whole case on him is because "let's lynch LL he's bad town" when pressured by dylan. I find that scummy.
293 is a extremely scummy post. I encourage you to reread the post if you haven't.
327 is scummy. Choosing to not defend yourself is scummy. These are some examples but if you want more I can provide them.
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And why have you been so cautious voting this game, but you haven't been cautious voting in your previous town games?
Because to me voting without a strong belief in ones scummyness is more so a false vote because it does not accurately reflect your feelings. That's why I waited to vote LL until I felt more confident about his scumminness.
But then why do you ever participate in RVS?
RVS is very different because it's for the fun. In RVS your not trying to find scum your just having fun. I'm talking about deeper into D1 on.
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And why have you been so cautious voting this game, but you haven't been cautious voting in your previous town games?
Because to me voting without a strong belief in ones scummyness is more so a false vote because it does not accurately reflect your feelings. That's why I waited to vote LL until I felt more confident about his scumminness.
But then why do you ever participate in RVS?
RVS is very different because it's for the fun. In RVS your not trying to find scum your just having fun. I'm talking about deeper into D1 on.
RVS is partly fun, but you should always be trying to catch scum. But to further gkrieg's point, then why don't you immediately unvote after RVS? If RVS votes are fun votes, why leave your fun, not serious vote on someone once other people are placing serious votes?
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And why have you been so cautious voting this game, but you haven't been cautious voting in your previous town games?
Because to me voting without a strong belief in ones scummyness is more so a false vote because it does not accurately reflect your feelings. That's why I waited to vote LL until I felt more confident about his scumminness.
Also, this doesn't answer why you did not play like this in other games. The implication of your logic is that in all your previous town games, you a) always felt strongly about people being scum (often changing dramatically over very short periods of time) or b) you were voting in such a way as to not accurately reflect your feelings.
Of the two, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that it was "a," but then suggest that even in your most recent town games--ones in which people commented on your improvement as a player and your new/quieter town self--you weren't actually concerned with making sure that you were certain before you voted. So it would seem you are inventing reasons for your voting behavior which don't actually reflect how you really play as town.
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So Jake has a pretty clear arc on reading LaLight D2.
@Jake why did LaLight go from notIC (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17194.msg690962#msg690962) -> pretty townie (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17194.msg691683#msg691683) -> "getting more scummy, I'm beginning to doubt my town read" (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17194.msg691860#msg691860) -> "I prefer to lynch LaLight" (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17194.msg692134#msg692134)
You haven't really given very many reasons, except that you felt that he was "flailing", which is a weak reason and as you said "scum base their cases on weak reasoning" (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=17194.msg691683#msg691683)
I'm not going to formally quote here so I'll just give post numbers.
Post 287 was really scummy to me from LL because he misrepresents awaclus there by saying he tunneled him. (False) Then 288 dylan points this out and in 289 LL quickly trys to defend his statement.
Also, Awa tunneled me for 2ish posts and gave up. That's not him. The only time i remember when Awaclus was nice and cool was British Bonkers. I am not doing the same mistake again.
Also, Awa tunneled me for 2ish posts and gave up. That's not him. The only time i remember when Awaclus was nice and cool was British Bonkers. I am not doing the same mistake again.
That's because he was tunneling the crap out of me that game
Also, is it really tunneling if it was only 2 posts?
At 298 he says that the whole case on him is because "let's lynch LL he's bad town" when pressured by dylan. I find that scummy.
Antitown along with bad town play =/= scum
But, you could argue lynching antitown and bad town play actually gives a net positive for town in some situations.
That's true. But you should be open for searching scum along with it, not just "let's lynch LL, he's bad town player"
293 is a extremely scummy post. I encourage you to reread the post if you haven't.
Awaclus is strangely explanative. Gkrieg is fitting his "gkrieg's scum meta in LL head" perfectly.
Guys, let's lynch gk, plz. Especially if he's alive next day.
Also, Awa tunneled me for 2ish posts and gave up. That's not him. The only time i remember when Awaclus was nice and cool was British Bonkers. I am not doing the same mistake again.
Oh yeah, I'm super explanative. I've explained...
Almost forgot this one:
In other news, these are apparently "2ish posts":
Vote: LaLight
Vote: LaLight
What antitown thing did I do this time?
What antitown thing did you not do this time?
Do you want a list?
Sure.
So you admit that you have done all the other anti-town things.
Funny fact: i do like your play when I am town
I guess that means you don't like it here.
Funny fact: i do like your play when I am town
I guess that means you don't like it here.
Seriously, why this time?
Why what?
Do you think I am scum or Traitor?
Yes.
I scumread everyone on my wagon
Ok.
And still voting for LL is apparently "gave up".
I honestly forgot most of this marvellous stuff.
Awaclus, if you're town, don't you think you're biased on me? Will you reconsider if I flip town?
327 is scummy. Choosing to not defend yourself is scummy. These are some examples but if you want more I can provide them.
I just don't see any arguments from which I should defend
Inserted the quotes for you. I'm taking out your quote so that it is easier to read.
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In case people don't read what I wrote in there, I removed the part of me quoting Jake, because it was too difficult to follow the quotes that way. But that is Jake's post but with the actual quotes in there instead of just the numbers.
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Also, is it really tunneling if it was only 2 posts?
Well, that wasn't. But that was Awaclus' favorite "LaLight is obvscum, won't tell why". I call that tunneling
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Ok. I really believe the scum is LL and the traitor is Jake. The reasoning and evidence for LL being the normal scum has been thoroughly documented, so I won't repeat everything that has already been said multiple times.
Jake as the traitor makes sense because (not all original thoughts, I'm just compiling the cases into one):
- Inexperienced traitor = more likely to shoot
- After using shot and killing one mafia, traitor would probably be careful about lynching their potential partner (therefore not voting aggressively)
- Jake is clearly not playing like his recent, vastly improved town self (and 200% different than original, brand-new-to-the-forum Jake)
- Traitor would be hesitant to join a wagon on the person with the strongest case for being the other scum
---- Unless they needed some way to survive and possibly get towncred in order to avoid being lynched
PPE 3
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And I do want you to provide more examples Jake.
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So, people suspect Jake, but not willing to put their votes on it?
Also, is LL still at L-1?
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So, people suspect Jake, but not willing to put their votes on it?
Also, is LL still at L-1?
Yes. You're welcome!
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So, people suspect Jake, but not willing to put their votes on it?
Why would we willing to put votes on someone who's not as likely to be scum as LL?
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Thanks for digging up the quotes by the way, gkrieg.
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So, people suspect Jake, but not willing to put their votes on it?
Also, is LL still at L-1?
Yes. You're welcome!
I'm not on your wagon right now.
I don't trust you, but not hammertime yet.
Although seems ever increasing that someone will do it, as there are 0 alternative options being seriously considered.
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LL looks to me more like the reg scum and not the traitor. I think I have a pretty strong since of who the traitor is though.
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I would still be up for voting Jake, but I think LaLight is a much better lynch. More likely to be scum.
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The reasoning and evidence for LL being the normal scum has been thoroughly documented, so I won't repeat everything that has already been said multiple times.
What happened to your extra secret super-compelling "he's 100% scum" evidence? That's something that might persuade me to move my vote before sleeptime.
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The reasoning and evidence for LL being the normal scum has been thoroughly documented, so I won't repeat everything that has already been said multiple times.
What happened to your extra secret super-compelling "he's 100% scum" evidence? That's something that might persuade me to move my vote before sleeptime.
There's not and won't be, believe me.
The only reason I am not selfhammering is that people will see, who's really scummy on my wagon.
And yeah, lynch gkrieg please after I flip
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The reasoning and evidence for LL being the normal scum has been thoroughly documented, so I won't repeat everything that has already been said multiple times.
What happened to your extra secret super-compelling "he's 100% scum" evidence? That's something that might persuade me to move my vote before sleeptime.
There's not and won't be, believe me.
The only reason I am not selfhammering is that people will see, who's really scummy on my wagon.
And yeah, lynch gkrieg please after I flip
How's your flip going to help us, really? You don't have any partners alive.
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The reasoning and evidence for LL being the normal scum has been thoroughly documented, so I won't repeat everything that has already been said multiple times.
What happened to your extra secret super-compelling "he's 100% scum" evidence? That's something that might persuade me to move my vote before sleeptime.
There's not and won't be, believe me.
The only reason I am not selfhammering is that people will see, who's really scummy on my wagon.
And yeah, lynch gkrieg please after I flip
I still don't get how I'm scum if you flip town.
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The reasoning and evidence for LL being the normal scum has been thoroughly documented, so I won't repeat everything that has already been said multiple times.
What happened to your extra secret super-compelling "he's 100% scum" evidence? That's something that might persuade me to move my vote before sleeptime.
There's not and won't be, believe me.
The only reason I am not selfhammering is that people will see, who's really scummy on my wagon.
And yeah, lynch gkrieg please after I flip
How's your flip going to help us, really? You don't have any partners alive.
oh, I do
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gonna sleep. Feel free to lynch me, though i will be here to deadline.
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Having re-read some more, I'm just not feeling the LL wagon :-( I'd very much like Dylan to summarize his case, with reference to actual posts and stuff.
I don't really want to hammer unless someone else can convince me that the lynch is unavoidable given timezones, and that it's really better to lynch someone who may well be town than to no-lynch, given that we've actually got an even number of players alive at the moment anyway.
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I'm still much more in favour of lynching Joseph... Do the rest of you really think he's making sufficient sense with his case/logic/arguments?
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I'd also be kind of in favour of lynching Jimmmmm, because being that absent is not pro-town. If he's contributing this little to the game as town, the actual townie thing to do would be to replace out. Even as hectically-busy and work-stressed scum over in D1 of NM10, I posted more than he's doing at the moment...
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I'm still much more in favour of lynching Joseph...
Bad idea
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I'd also be kind of in favour of lynching Jimmmmm, because being that absent is not pro-town. If he's contributing this little to the game as town, the actual townie thing to do would be to replace out. Even as hectically-busy and work-stressed scum over in D1 of NM10, I posted more than he's doing at the moment...
This is normal post levels for Jimmm though.
But I kind of agree, lynching Jimmm wouldn't be the worst idea.
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100% not lynching Jimmmmm
Jake or LaLight only for me.
Town for me is Jimmmm, Awaclus, and Space.
Dylan is townier than Joseph
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I'm still much more in favour of lynching Joseph... Do the rest of you really think he's making sufficient sense with his case/logic/arguments?
Not really but I think he's town.
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We should lynch before all Europeans go to bed.
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We should lynch before all Europeans go to bed.
I'm phone-posting from bed already...
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Gkrieg, since you seem to be the biggest supporter of the LL wagon currently present, could you step up and do the summary I'd asked Dylan for?
I'd wanted it from Dylan himself because I don't really like the way he's implying that there's more evidence than I think there is out there, especially because he'd implied that he wasn't going to share his big piece of 100%-confident evidence with the rest of us. However, I'm super-sleepy now, so I'll settle for other answers...
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Gkrieg, since you seem to be the biggest supporter of the LL wagon currently present, could you step up and do the summary I'd asked Dylan for?
I'd wanted it from Dylan himself because I don't really like the way he's implying that there's more evidence than I think there is out there, especially because he'd implied that he wasn't going to share his big piece of 100%-confident evidence with the rest of us. However, I'm super-sleepy now, so I'll settle for other answers...
I didn't say I know LL is scum 100% confidence, but I did say I wouldn't share exactly what it is. I do have reasons for not wanting to say what it was. But if I have to say something: I think I noticed something super subtle in someone's posts that would point to that person possibly knowing 100% that LL is scum. However, I absolutely could be wrong about that (I admitted that in the original post), and if LL dies and flips town I will reveal who/what and probably want to lynch that person.
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And as for a summary post, unfortunately I am going to defer to gkrieg, because it is one of my best friend's last night in town and I probably won't see him again for who knows how long after tonight and we are leaving now and probably won't be back to a computer before Europeans go to sleep. But the gist of it is, I just really think his wagon thing was the single scummiest thing that has actually happened, followed closely by Jake's resistance to voting. If people go to bed and prefer a Jake lynch to an LL one, I will be online later tonight to hammer if needed on that before the deadline.
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@Dylan, well that is more confusing than I expected. How does that even work? The only person who should know that anyone else is definitively scum is the other scum, and one of them has already flipped. The other person who might have strong evidence is the watcher, if they were lucky with N1's target. However, the fact you want to lynch the person makes it seem like that's not the kind of line you're thinking along.
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Urgh. I'm not joining an LL lynch for Dylan's reasons. I'm sorely tempted to vote Dylan.
I'm seriously fighting sleep just now, so I'm not going to be here for more than another few minutes.
vote: Dylan in case adrenaline happens...
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Sorry, I spent all my mafia time already today.
LaLight is about even with Jake honestly. I would almost rather lynch Jake if we can get the votes for it.
LaLight had the wagon thing D1 and then he is defending himself like he does when he is scum.
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Really Space? How is Dylan going to be lynched?
Joseph and Space and Awaclus won't be online any more. Jimmmmm will probably come online shortly.
So that leaves me, Dylan, Jake? Well if it is between Jake and LaLight I don't think we have the votes. Need to check the vote count.
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Urgh. I'm not joining an LL lynch for Dylan's reasons. I'm sorely tempted to vote Dylan.
I'm seriously fighting sleep just now, so I'm not going to be here for more than another few minutes.
vote: Dylan in case adrenaline happens...
Do I have to spell it out? I think I might have figured out who the watcher is based on very very subtle details that I somewhat doubt are actually a thing, but if I'm right, the watcher caught scum and is waiting to try to catch the other before claiming. I don't know if the Watcher would do that or if they would go ahead and sacrifice themselves to get it down to 1 or not. It's a stretch, but it's a thing.
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I think we can only lynch LaLight with Jimmm's vote
Jake would require me and Dylan and LaLight and Jimmm and Joseph. Doable, but LaLight seems more doable.
Jimmmm is the big wildcard
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Is there a chance of Awaclus being online, or is he out for the night based on timezone?
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Is there a chance of Awaclus being online, or is he out for the night based on timezone?
I'm saying out based on time zone. Possible that he comes back online.
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Ugh. Jimmmm please come online and hammer!
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I just realized that if you (gkrieg) turns out to be scum, my joke/prediction from British Bonkers will have turned out to be right, because so far, this has been the least suspicious I have ever been about you...
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I just realized that if you (gkrieg) turns out to be scum, my joke/prediction from British Bonkers will have turned out to be right, because so far, this has been the least suspicious I have ever been about you...
You don't have to worry. I'm not scum.
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I'd actually be surprised if I don't die tonight
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Honestly I'm still finding both gkrieg and LaLight scummy. Although the reasons I find LaLight scummy are not the same as the one's given by gkrieg. gkrieg's argument against LaLight make no sense and are at odds with other comments of his like you can't get anything from Day 1, and it's hard to say what Mafia would want to do Day 1.
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Honestly I'm still finding both gkrieg and LaLight scummy. Although the reasons I find LaLight scummy are not the same as the one's given by gkrieg. gkrieg's argument against LaLight make no sense and are at odds with other comments of his like you can't get anything from Day 1, and it's hard to say what Mafia would want to do Day 1.
What are your reasons for finding LL scummy?
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Honestly I'm still finding both gkrieg and LaLight scummy. Although the reasons I find LaLight scummy are not the same as the one's given by gkrieg. gkrieg's argument against LaLight make no sense and are at odds with other comments of his like you can't get anything from Day 1, and it's hard to say what Mafia would want to do Day 1.
You know what scum doesn't want to do D1? Lynch their partner right off the bat.
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Honestly I'm still finding both gkrieg and LaLight scummy. Although the reasons I find LaLight scummy are not the same as the one's given by gkrieg. gkrieg's argument against LaLight make no sense and are at odds with other comments of his like you can't get anything from Day 1, and it's hard to say what Mafia would want to do Day 1.
You know what scum doesn't want to do D1? Lynch their partner right off the bat.
[/quote
I mean that's true. But Town doesn't want to lynch right off the bat either.
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Okay apparently I can't avoid quoting mishaps either.
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I think right now we have LaLight with 4 votes, me with 1 Dylan with 1 and Jake with 1. So I think you are deciding between LaLight or no lynch
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At least that quote fail wouldn't have resulted in derphammer haha.
Yeah, I would be willing to switch to Jake, but that seems impossible.
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Jimmmmm, I also want to hear why you think gkrieg is scummy before the day ends.
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Morning!
I sincerely promise you that I am ready to break my 0 mislynch stat in order you will get a lynch, guys. I will selfhammer if it will come to that
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I don't know if this all is a good idea, but we don't seem to find any alternatives for me. Sad.
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I don't know if this all is a good idea, but we don't seem to find any alternatives for me. Sad.
Deadline is a hard time for people.
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I don't know if this all is a good idea, but we don't seem to find any alternatives for me. Sad.
Deadline is a hard time for people.
Yah, I know. Do you honestly think I am scum?
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I don't know if this all is a good idea, but we don't seem to find any alternatives for me. Sad.
Deadline is a hard time for people.
Yah, I know. Do you honestly think I am scum?
I do. I think I would've rather lynched Jake today though. But I didn't switch because I wasn't sure if we could get the votes over.
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I appear to be awake again.
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It also doesn't help that with 8 people alive, it only takes one town not on the wagon to get a scum lynch through. With Space and Joseph leaving without their votes on significant wagons, it didn't give us very much to get any other lynch through.
I think we need to set a better deadline for ourselves, and people need to vote a little earlier in the day tomorrow.
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Dylan and Jimmmm still around?
We could lynch Jake
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let's try vote: Jake
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I'm going to sleep in about ten minutes, so if the votes are there by then I will hammer, otherwise I'm staying on LaLight.
So only two more votes on Jake to get a lynch (I'll be the third)
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Vote: Jake
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Not that I like the Jake wagon a lot more than the Dylan one, really. At least I believe some of the evidence in his case though, much as I want this sensible restrained Jake to be a town one.
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One more then I'll switch. If not, I would recommend lynching LaLight
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I'm not staying awake... likely to doze off again in a few because it's going to be a busy day and I need rest.
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So probably hammer LaLight
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This is probably the most frustrating game I've ever been in
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Dylan? Jake lynch?
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Vote: Jake
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vote: Jake
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Off to bed now. Hopefully I wake up!
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I'd still prefer LL I think, but if this is what people wanted, I'm ok with it.
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I'd still prefer LL I think, but if this is what people wanted, I'm ok with it.
I think it was the only option honestly.
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I'd still prefer LL I think, but if this is what people wanted, I'm ok with it.
I think it was the only option honestly.
The only option? Do you suddenly believe I'm town?
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Yeah seems like it. I wonder how Space's analysis will change tomorrow if we are right about Jake being the traitor.
PPE 1
No LL, we just didn't have time to get the votes apparently
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Dylan, I tell you I was ready to hammer myself! You got all the votes you wanted
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I'd still prefer LL I think, but if this is what people wanted, I'm ok with it.
I think it was the only option honestly.
The only option? Do you suddenly believe I'm town?
It's posts like this, were the person's point is pretty unambiguous, but you take exception and try to misrepresent or argue it that just seems scummier to me this game than previous ones, but I just now was able to put my finger on what it was :(
Examples forthcoming if twilight lasts.
PPE 1
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Scum wins this as one as long as you think I'm scum. Remember this post, you'll see
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Dylan, I tell you I was ready to hammer myself! You got all the votes you wanted
I can't trust that you would do that.
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Scum wins this as one as long as you think I'm scum. Remember this post, you'll see
Also you never actually did self-hammer!
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Scum wins this as one as long as you think I'm scum. Remember this post, you'll see
Also you never actually did self-hammer!
I thought that if we will have more time to speak, it would be better for town.. I am online till deadline. whatever, man.
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Also, Awa tunneled me for 2ish posts and gave up. That's not him. The only time i remember when Awaclus was nice and cool was British Bonkers. I am not doing the same mistake again.
Misrepresenting Awaclus
Antitown along with bad town play =/= scum
But, you could argue lynching antitown and bad town play actually gives a net positive for town in some situations.
That's true. But you should be open for searching scum along with it, not just "let's lynch LL, he's bad town player"
I wasn't saying lynch LL because he is bad town, I was (am) saying lynch LL because he is scummy.
I feel like there was an interaction between you and gkrieg that seemed similar earlier, but I didn't see it just now.
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LaLight, why specifically do you think gkrieg is scummy other than pushing your lynch?
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LaLight, why specifically do you think gkrieg is scummy other than pushing your lynch?
I am sorry, I don't think I can find relevant quotes. But overall, it's because he plays his game where he is widely townread because he seems dominant in discussion pushing the town forward, when the truth is that he doesn't do anything particularly townie.
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If Jake is scum, I will willingly hammer myself tomorrow as far as I will be at L-1. This is not really fun
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Really?
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Really?
I swear the sacred oath
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If Jake is scum, I will willingly hammer myself tomorrow as far as I will be at L-1. This is not really fun
Why would anybody want that? Obviously if you're both scum you're not going to do it.
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Did we get the hammer on Jake in time?
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There's still time. About an hour I think.
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Or 50 min.
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Day 2 Final Vote Count
LaLight (3): Awaclus, gkrieg13, JaketheBaseballGod22
JaketheBaseballGod22 (5): Joseph2302, LaLight, SpaceAnemone, Dylan32, gkrieg13
Not Voting (1): Jimmmmm
With 8 alive, it took 5 to lynch.
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schadd and faust decided to take a walk to the cafeteria for some fresh air. schadd got himself a large coffee and a bagel, while faust took a weird German energy drink.
"I still think we could prove the first part of the theorem by contradiction. But somehow the proof always fails; I'm just not getting there. See..."
faust took a pen and scribbled some lines on a napkin.
"wait." schadd said. "we are assuming a compact set, no? then we can use this to get a finite covering."
"Of course! How did I miss that?"
JaketheBaseballGod22 has been lynched! They were an overlooked condition, the Mafia Roleblocker!
Night 2 begins now and ends May 7 at 5 pm forum time.
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after the two of them had been thinking to themselves for several minutes, schadd says something one could only assume was an attempt to break the silence.
"okay. assume there exists some way to find the maclaurin expansion of this set. it would follow that the set you were looking for would inductively have the same cardinality as that expansion?"
"Uh. As we've talked about in the past, making assumptions that are provably impossible is surely bad practice even if it has somehow gotten you results. While you seem to continue to be in defense of doing that, I think it's fair to say you probably shouldn't use inductive reasoning on your impossible assumptions."
"gah. so induction is out of the picture too, then?"
"well, no, i'm just saying that you shouldn-"
SpaceAnemone has been killed! They were induction, a Vanilla Townie!
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Vote Count 3.0
not voting (6): Dylan32, Joseph2302, Jimmmmm, gkrieg13, Awaclus, LaLight
With 6 alive it takes 4 to lynch. Day 3 starts now and ends Sunday, May 14th at 9pm forum time. thread unlocked
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Cool. That worked out well. Now we just get to find the traitor.
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Also notable that my case on LaLight is gone...
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Although my assumption is that LaLight is still scum because Awaclus saw him kill WW N1.
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Sorry I haven't contributed much so far. But I'm the Watcher and it's Awaclus.
Vote: Awaclus
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Although my assumption is that LaLight is still scum because Awaclus saw him kill WW N1.
Wait... did I miss a claim?
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Now you see, gkrieg? vote: Awaclus
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Ok, Awaclus never actually claimed anything, so what did you (gkrieg) see that made you think Awaclus was the watcher and saw LL?
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Although, to be clear up front, that was the thing I was referring to on D1, because I thought Awaclus's surety on LL meant he knew for a fact it actually was LL. In retrospect, acting completely sure is something I've seen scum!Awaclus do, so I should have thought through that better.
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Sorry I haven't contributed much so far. But I'm the Watcher and it's Awaclus.
Vote: Awaclus
I think I'm ok sheeping this, because if it isn't Awaclus, we lynch Jimmmmm tomorrow with 4 alive/3 to lynch and town wins. Right? Vote: Awaclus
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In other news, I'm excited to finally get to add a green game to my list of wins. ;D
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vote: Awaclus
Didn't see anything I guess. I was actually going off of Dylan's thing. My bad
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Now you see, gkrieg? vote: Awaclus
Well once you weren't the goon, it was less likely you were the traitor
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I think it's already hammered, but Vote: Awaclus
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a watcher, which isn't super powerful.
Yeah, the Watcher totally sucked here.
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Although, to be clear up front, that was the thing I was referring to on D1, because I thought Awaclus's surety on LL meant he knew for a fact it actually was LL. In retrospect, acting completely sure is something I've seen scum!Awaclus do, so I should have thought through that better.
No, it meant that I'm always acting as though I was 100% certain on all of my reads in order to hide how certain I actually am.
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Day 3 Final Vote Count
Awaclus (4): Jimmmmm, LaLight, Dylan32, gkrieg13
not voting (2): Joseph2302, Awaclus
With 6 alive it took 4 to lynch.
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"what if", schadd pondered, "the problem at hand here is actually undecidable?"
"Oh come on. You know that's only something people say when they cannot manage a proof or counterexample."
faust turned to his laptop and hammered in something. Then it suddenly all became clear.
"I knew getting that wolframalpha professional account would finally pay off! Look here", and he turned the screen to schadd.
Awaclus has been lynched! They were Gödel's Incompleteness Theorem, the 1-shot Vigilante Traitor.
The scum team of Witherweaver, JaketheBaseballGod22 and Awaclus has lost!
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Remaining flavor names:
Dylan32 - parallel axiom
Joseph2302 - axiom of choice
gkrieg13 - Stokes' theorem
LaLight - Differentiability
Jimmmmm - wolframalpha
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Still never mislynched! But the pressure was unbearable, I really weighted the possibility to selfhammer. Good thing I didn't do it
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Still never mislynched! But the pressure was unbearable, I really weighted the possibility to selfhammer. Good thing I didn't do it
I believed in you! I mean, I was questioning whether I was right to, but I did :-P You actually didn't feel nearly flaily enough to be evil...
I was all set to come into D3 with a tunnel on Dylan for his now-clearly-false logic on you :-P Except of course I felt like I'd played a strong D2 and wasn't at all confident about living through the night :-P
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Day 3 Final Vote Count
Awaclus (4): Jimmmmm, LaLight, Dylan32, gkireg13
not voting (2): Joseph2302, LaLight
With 6 alive it took 4 to lynch.
Technically this vote count is wrong. The other not voting was Awaclus not LL
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But yay finally a game where I'm not mislynched :-)
And I said LL was a bad lynch choice, appears I was right
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Day 3 Final Vote Count
Awaclus (4): Jimmmmm, LaLight, Dylan32, gkireg13
not voting (2): Joseph2302, LaLight
With 6 alive it took 4 to lynch.
Technically this vote count is wrong. The other not voting was Awaclus not LL
Also, i am sorry, but "gkireg"?
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I have to say, I thought Jake played a good scum game. Sadly for him, the piece of evidence that tipped it for me was the issue of WW not joining the wagon that already had LL and Jake on it! That and the fact he seemed really on top of things like the scum having an RB, which nobody had really been talking much about up till that point... :-P
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But yay finally a game where I'm not mislynched :-)
I wanted to lynch you for crimes against logic. Sadly that appears not to be alignment-indicative :-P
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I guess Awaclus thought he would take a lot more heat for the D1 hammer than he did and consequently shot N1. Funny enough, that time the short D1 actually hurt scum.
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Day 3 Final Vote Count
Awaclus (4): Jimmmmm, LaLight, Dylan32, gkireg13
not voting (2): Joseph2302, LaLight
With 6 alive it took 4 to lynch.
Technically this vote count is wrong. The other not voting was Awaclus not LL
Also, i am sorry, but "gkireg"?
Fixed now.
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I still think shooting at random N1 was absolutely correct. There was only a 2/9 chance of hitting scum and a 6/9 chance of hitting town, it was the only way to guarantee that I could shoot at all before getting lynched or converted into real scum, and the longer the game went on, the higher would be the chance of the Watcher catching me and/or the scum team targeting the same townie. Like, I knew from the moment I got my role PM that I would be shooting N1 for sure.
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Kireg has a nice ring to it
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I have to say, I thought Jake played a good scum game. Sadly for him, the piece of evidence that tipped it for me was the issue of WW not joining the wagon that already had LL and Jake on it! That and the fact he seemed really on top of things like the scum having an RB, which nobody had really been talking much about up till that point... :-P
Well I was confused because I thought Jake was traitor.....
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Although I was also prepared to get more heat for the quickhammer, but I really didn't have any idea how it would turn out. That's also partially why I wanted to try it out, but ultimately I also thought that even if I just managed to mislynch a PR and shoot a townie before getting lynched D2, that would still be pretty okay since I was only the traitor and then the real scum team would be in a 2 vs 5 situation with no real wagon analysis possibilities to help town. Unfortunately, it worked out even worse than that.
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Although I was also prepared to get more heat for the quickhammer, but I really didn't have any idea how it would turn out. That's also partially why I wanted to try it out, but ultimately I also thought that even if I just managed to mislynch a PR and shoot a townie before getting lynched D2, that would still be pretty okay since I was only the traitor and then the real scum team would be in a 2 vs 5 situation with no real wagon analysis possibilities to help town. Unfortunately, it worked out even worse than that.
Was it intentional quote fail D1?
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Although I was also prepared to get more heat for the quickhammer, but I really didn't have any idea how it would turn out. That's also partially why I wanted to try it out, but ultimately I also thought that even if I just managed to mislynch a PR and shoot a townie before getting lynched D2, that would still be pretty okay since I was only the traitor and then the real scum team would be in a 2 vs 5 situation with no real wagon analysis possibilities to help town. Unfortunately, it worked out even worse than that.
Was it intentional quote fail D1?
Yeah.
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Although I was also prepared to get more heat for the quickhammer, but I really didn't have any idea how it would turn out. That's also partially why I wanted to try it out, but ultimately I also thought that even if I just managed to mislynch a PR and shoot a townie before getting lynched D2, that would still be pretty okay since I was only the traitor and then the real scum team would be in a 2 vs 5 situation with no real wagon analysis possibilities to help town. Unfortunately, it worked out even worse than that.
Was it intentional quote fail D1?
Yeah.
Knew that! Also I was scumreading you pretty all the game, but then gkrieg seemed to be more scummy.
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I've no idea about MVP btw
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Knew that!
Well, I guess so, but your reasoning was wrong though. The quote fail itself was perfectly realistic; people make that kind of a quote fail sometimes and I have also made quote fails in the past. What could have given it away though was that I had to force myself to actually say something about the quotes and I didn't really have anything to say so that whole post didn't make a lot of sense.
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Knew that!
Well, I guess so, but your reasoning was wrong though. The quote fail itself was perfectly realistic; people make that kind of a quote fail sometimes and I have also made quote fails in the past. What could have given it away though was that I had to force myself to actually say something about the quotes and I didn't really have anything to say so that whole post didn't make a lot of sense.
Well, the quote fail is realistic; it's still more likely to come from scum. Town and scum both have the same chance of a "real" fail, but scum has the additional incentive to fake it. So P(quotefail happens | poster is scum) > P(quotefail happens | poster is town).
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I have to say, I thought Jake played a good scum game. Sadly for him, the piece of evidence that tipped it for me was the issue of WW not joining the wagon that already had LL and Jake on it! That and the fact he seemed really on top of things like the scum having an RB, which nobody had really been talking much about up till that point... :-P
Are you saying that my joining of a wagon was influenced by Jake's vote? That's not the case at all. Also, I was gone for most of Day 1, and in particular for the lynch.
I usually don't take note of where my partners are voting when I vote as scum.
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I have to say, I thought Jake played a good scum game. Sadly for him, the piece of evidence that tipped it for me was the issue of WW not joining the wagon that already had LL and Jake on it! That and the fact he seemed really on top of things like the scum having an RB, which nobody had really been talking much about up till that point... :-P
Well I was confused because I thought Jake was traitor.....
I'd already said that I didn't think the traitor shooting N1 was as newbie a thing as you guys were implying, specifically because of the reasons Awaclus has now confirmed :-)
Though I'm also sad to find out that my "last straw" of info pointing to Jake wasn't as informative as I gave it credit for.
PoE was really hard for town with Jimmmmm so absent, though I'm glad he pulled through for us in the end! :-) Presumably he watched me last night and saw the kill? I was actually kind of excited to wake up this morning and not have a PM telling me I'm dead and pointing me to the speccy... but that excitement was a short-lived :-P
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I kinda feel bad for the scum team this game. WW gets shot by his teammate, Jake is quicklynched at the last minute and then Awaclus is caught by night actions.
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Hi.
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I kinda feel bad for the scum team this game. WW gets shot by his teammate, Jake is quicklynched at the last minute and then Awaclus is caught by night actions.
I do too!
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I kinda feel bad for the scum team this game. WW gets shot by his teammate, Jake is quicklynched at the last minute and then Awaclus is caught by night actions.
I do too!
Me too plus I couldn't even defend myself. I was literally about to break my laptop when Joseph kept calling me the traitor because my goal for the rest of the game was to lynch the traitor. I actually thought the traitor was gkrieg which made me even more frustrated that he lead the lynch on me.
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Is anyone going to post the speccy/mafia QT/stuff like that? :-)
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Oh, sure:
Mafia: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/a8kdKcrBZXL
Speccy: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/bVNnnpNmYuC
Mod: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/B23NSJnbqQe
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Well, the quote fail is realistic; it's still more likely to come from scum. Town and scum both have the same chance of a "real" fail, but scum has the additional incentive to fake it. So P(quotefail happens | poster is scum) > P(quotefail happens | poster is town).
I'll probably find a way to intentionally quotefail as town some day.
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Kireg has a nice ring to it
(http://www.typophile.com/sites/default/files/old-images/g_6285.png)(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/415AQMKJ3WL.jpg)
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Good job fellow townies! Y'all made it look easy.
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I kinda feel bad for the scum team this game. WW gets shot by his teammate, Jake is quicklynched at the last minute and then Awaclus is caught by night actions.
I do too!
Me too plus I couldn't even defend myself. I was literally about to break my laptop when Joseph kept calling me the traitor because my goal for the rest of the game was to lynch the traitor. I actually thought the traitor was gkrieg which made me even more frustrated that he lead the lynch on me.
I'm expert at doing this. Correct outcome based on completely wrong information.
I was right that we should lynch Jake though, albeit for all the wrong reasons
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I should have known the traitor was awaclus and not a vet.
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Oh, sure:
Mafia: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/a8kdKcrBZXL
Speccy: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/bVNnnpNmYuC
Mod: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/B23NSJnbqQe
Hmm... your mod QT disagrees with my probabilities over role sets, in that you have fewer allowed configurations than me. Maybe I'll have to re-check mine now. I'm sad nobody else wanted to play numbers with me. Where's Calamitas when you need him? :-P
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Although I was also prepared to get more heat for the quickhammer, but I really didn't have any idea how it would turn out. That's also partially why I wanted to try it out, but ultimately I also thought that even if I just managed to mislynch a PR and shoot a townie before getting lynched D2, that would still be pretty okay since I was only the traitor and then the real scum team would be in a 2 vs 5 situation with no real wagon analysis possibilities to help town. Unfortunately, it worked out even worse than that.
Was it intentional quote fail D1?
Yeah.
Knew that! Also I was scumreading you pretty all the game, but then gkrieg seemed to be more scummy.
Sorry for all the tunneling. I felt like we needed to do something because of the short day
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I should have known the traitor was awaclus and not a vet.
Awaclus is a vet though?
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I kinda feel bad for the scum team this game. WW gets shot by his teammate, Jake is quicklynched at the last minute and then Awaclus is caught by night actions.
I do too!
Me too plus I couldn't even defend myself. I was literally about to break my laptop when Joseph kept calling me the traitor because my goal for the rest of the game was to lynch the traitor. I actually thought the traitor was gkrieg which made me even more frustrated that he lead the lynch on me.
At least one of my "I will only lynch one of these two players"was right.
My goal this game was to end every day voting for scum, and I accomplished it somehow, so I feel good about myself.
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I'm pretty sure I get NKd more often than lynched as scum. Pretty often by scum, too.
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I'm pretty sure I get NKd more often than lynched as scum. Pretty often by scum, too.
I mean I would vig you.
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I'm pretty sure I get NKd more often than lynched as scum. Pretty often by scum, too.
I mean I would vig you.
Just because you voting me never works.
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I'm pretty sure I get NKd more often than lynched as scum. Pretty often by scum, too.
I mean I would vig you.
Just because you voting me never works.
Yup. And you're always scum :)
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In terms of MVP (and looking at the musings in the mod QT), I'd pick LL over Jimmmmm by a clear margin, because LL was consistently towny and present through the whole game, whereas Jimmmmm was rather harmfully absent, and then his targeting of me wasn't all that unlikely, given that I'd just had a strong D2. [M92 is good precedent for that: faust got the MVP for strong reads, my Detective use to get us the last scum and a flawless victory did not].
In spite of being merely a "possibly Space" afterthought, I think this could be my best town game yet :-) Maybe I was a little too nitpicky about everyone else's weird arguments, but I was on/off the right lynches at the ends of the days, didn't fall into any bizarre paranoid conspiracy theories, and I was right to stick to my guns on on refusing to hammer LL, especially since most of the evidence against him apparently stemmed from Awaclus's behaviour! I feel like LL and I both came at this prepared to be very townie, given the awful scum game we had over in NM10 :-P We should keep being town together, LL! :-)
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I don't know if anyone on town deserves an MVP frankly lol. That was a win that town fell into in spite of themselves. The reasoning for seeing Jake scummy as presented by basically everyone was wrong (but ended correctly). We avoided lynching LL because we only had votes awake to lynch Jake instead (for flawed reasons, apparently). I don't think most of the arguments Space called out were inherently bad, they just happened to be wrong. I might have to give it to the Watcher by default for guessing that Space would be the target if I had a say.
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Maybe I should have actually read Space's previous post thoroughly before posting lol
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I think it would be thematically appropriate to name probability as the MVP.
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Please don't make me MVP.
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It's hard because every MVP candidate has something about them that is a reason why they shouldn't be MVP :)
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It's hard because every MVP candidate has something about them that is a reason why they shouldn't be MVP :)
Sadly true haha. How about we are all co-MVPs?
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While I totally understand the hesitance to award it to anyone, I think there's a case to be made for LaLight to get it.
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You could also say that I was the most valuable player for town. After all, I successfully NK'd scum and played a key part in catching another scum later on.
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While I totally understand the hesitance to award it to anyone, I think there's a case to be made for LaLight to get it.
I agree.
LL managing to not get himself lynched when it seemed inevitable was a turning point in the game.
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my only achievement was stopping my hand from selfhammering!
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my only achievement was stopping my hand from selfhammering!
Well under that logic, I should get MVP for not hammering you! ;)
And supporting the Jake lynch, albeit on completely nonsense information.
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I mean Awaclus made a pretty key play for town...
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I mean Awaclus made a pretty key play for town...
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I mean Awaclus made a pretty key play for town...
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I'd say normally losing faction MVPs have been given for extraordinary play towards their own wincon, not for others.
Otherwise it becomes easy to ensure many MVP awards trivially by losing on purpose.
I wasn't MVP in liopoil's game even though my thoroughly pro-town plan on D1 assured and guaranteed my scum team loss. The award doesn't work that way.
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Otherwise it becomes easy to ensure many MVP awards trivially by losing on purpose.
I don't think anyone takes them that seriously.
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I agree with ash.
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Personally I was joking.
Awaclus was the biggest town player, but he can't get MVP obviously.
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MVP-vote: LL :-)