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[infangthief]

I've had a read through scola's posts this game with my special scola-is-scum(TM) glasses.

And partnerwise, it is just 100% Didds. Especially this post:

...

Phase Two: Random other player votes with what *should* be the hammer. If exile happens, there were exactly two votes between Joseph and I, which means we had one mayor and one drunk as expected and we are IC (unless you genuinely think Joseph and I BOTH fakeclaimed, in which case, test one of us individually to make it mathematically 100%). If no exile, go to phase 3.

Phase Three: One more person votes. If the exile happens, one of us (Joseph) lied and the other (me) is drunk. If no exile, we are both drunks, and the wagon is for sure at X-1.

If you don't understand, doubt, or disagree with anything, please be specific with your questions in relation to this, because I've been sick this weekend and it's totally possible I'm just not thinking or typing as clearly as I think I am lol.

ppe 4

Plenty of posts have happened after this one, but my biggest issue is here Phase 2 (and 3). I don't know if we're really set to exile WCD (the current testee) and all this testing talk time is really hurting our focus.

So I'm fine with Phase 1, but it gets us very little info and then we need to regroup and determine who we may actually want to exile. Add in the fact of different time zones, not knowing when exactly mod will post new vote counts, this feels guaranteed to leave us scrambling at the last minute. Which is in the middle of the day for those of us in the US and may be hard to have a lot of time to read / post / vote.

So honestly, I think at this point we need to move past the testing and just try to play like a normal end of D1.

I'm happy with my current vote.

Didds is on 3 votes + Dylan at this point.
Phase 1 is where Joseph would vote for Didds to check for 2*mayor or mayor+scum.
Phase 2 is where someone else would then vote for Didds to check for mayor+drunk.
Phase 3 is where another player would then vote for Didds to check for drunk+scum.

And scola's post here is saying "happy with phase 1, but please don't do 2 or 3 on Didds".
Now that Joseph and Dylan are confirmed town we know that scum "knew" they could rule out the "+scum" options above. ("knew" in inverted commas because actually Joseph being VT this wasn't the case...)
So scolapasta "knew" that phase 1 was safe and phase 2 would cause Didds to be exiled.

Scola's the certain exile today, but sounds like others aren't on board with that. But I'm convinced enough that Didd's is also scum.
vote: Didds

[mathdude]

Vote "count" 3.1:
Votes for infangthief: scolapasta
votes for WestCoastDidds: faust, infangthief

not voting: Dylan32, EFHW, jotheonah, WestCoastDidds
(with 7 alive, it takes 4 votes to exile)

Reminder: Day 3 ends at 6:41pm EST on Sunday, December 19th

[EFHW]

scola is clearly scum, since he's been sitting on fang's wagon and there hasn't been a hammer.

vote: scola

Two of faust, joth, Didds, fang are scum. I prefer to start rather than join a wagon.

[EFHW]

@fang, in your second paragraph you say scum knew Joseph wasn't scum. But they didn't know phase 1 was safe.  He could have been a second mayor. That wasn't likely, but it undermines your Didds is scum partners with scola theory, since phase 1 risked exiling Didds.

[faust]

scola is clearly scum, since he's been sitting on fang's wagon and there hasn't been a hammer.

vote: scola

Err... how does that make sense?

If scola is town, then fang is scum. Of course scum wouldn't quickhammer scum.... your argument would only work if scola and fang were both town, which is impossible.

[EFHW]

scola is clearly scum, since he's been sitting on fang's wagon and there hasn't been a hammer.

vote: scola

Err... how does that make sense?

If scola is town, then fang is scum. Of course scum wouldn't quickhammer scum.... your argument would only work if scola and fang were both town, which is impossible.

It is possible they are both town. It's also possible they are both scum. But you are right that fang scum, scola town would also look like this, so scola isn't 100% scum.

 

[EFHW]

Town!scola should have been uneasy voting at all. He can't be 100% sure about fang.

[EFHW]

I suspect faust has just fallen for townreading based on agreement rather than actual reads or game state

This is a bit insulting.

But isn't that what you said? I don't think agreement was your only reason for townreading fang, but it did seem like a strong factor from your post.

Regarding your suspicion of me, I'm hardwired to disagree with most things in mafia. My disagreeing with you is NAI. You disagreeing with me is also NAI.

[infangthief]

Cool.
vote: scola

[faust]

scola is clearly scum, since he's been sitting on fang's wagon and there hasn't been a hammer.

vote: scola

Err... how does that make sense?

If scola is town, then fang is scum. Of course scum wouldn't quickhammer scum.... your argument would only work if scola and fang were both town, which is impossible.

It is possible they are both town. It's also possible they are both scum. But you are right that fang scum, scola town would also look like this, so scola isn't 100% scum.

Not it's not possible that they are both town. That's the whole point...

[WestCoastDidds]

Good morning!

Ugh… we/I seem to be in the throes of paranoia where every combination turns up bad for some reason or another.

But it seems like we’re voting now instead of not voting anymore?

[WestCoastDidds]

I need to get some work done, but then I’ll be able to catch up for real.

Quick takes are that I’m not fond of how faust is steering the game, and that he can vote but makes other people unvote. I trust EFHW more than I did before. I’m not sure how to resolve fang and Scola and I’m not swayed by the arguments that people are making for one over the other. And doesn’t Dylan just decide everything to do anyway?

[jotheonah]

scola is clearly scum, since he's been sitting on fang's wagon and there hasn't been a hammer.

vote: scola

Err... how does that make sense?

If scola is town, then fang is scum. Of course scum wouldn't quickhammer scum.... your argument would only work if scola and fang were both town, which is impossible.

It is possible they are both town. It's also possible they are both scum. But you are right that fang scum, scola town would also look like this, so scola isn't 100% scum.

Not it's not possible that they are both town. That's the whole point...

Hey never say never. Maybe one of them just misread their PM. Ha. ha ha.

[EFHW]

scola is clearly scum, since he's been sitting on fang's wagon and there hasn't been a hammer.

vote: scola

Err... how does that make sense?

If scola is town, then fang is scum. Of course scum wouldn't quickhammer scum.... your argument would only work if scola and fang were both town, which is impossible.

It is possible they are both town. It's also possible they are both scum. But you are right that fang scum, scola town would also look like this, so scola isn't 100% scum.

Not it's not possible that they are both town. That's the whole point...

Couldn't you, joth and Didds all be scum from my perspective?

[EFHW]

scola is clearly scum, since he's been sitting on fang's wagon and there hasn't been a hammer.

vote: scola

Err... how does that make sense?

If scola is town, then fang is scum. Of course scum wouldn't quickhammer scum.... your argument would only work if scola and fang were both town, which is impossible.

It is possible they are both town. It's also possible they are both scum. But you are right that fang scum, scola town would also look like this, so scola isn't 100% scum.

Not it's not possible that they are both town. That's the whole point...

Couldn't you, joth and Didds all be scum from my perspective?

Or are you partially agreeing with me and saying that the current vote status means they aren't both town?

[Dylan32]

I suspect faust has just fallen for townreading based on agreement rather than actual reads or game state

This is a bit insulting.

No insult intented, and EFHW is right that the comment originated from your own comment that fang agreeing with you suggests he's not scum and that the people that disagree with you are more likely to be scum. Pointing out an inherent bias that has been very thoroughly studied but researchers much more capable than myself and pushing back a bit when your own stated reasoning at the very least runs parallel to that bias even if it's not the cause is in my mind totally justified. Mafia skill, intelligence, political leanings, none of it matters; people tend to trust people/sources that agree with what they believe. It is nothing personal towards you, and in fact knowing that you're pretty darn good at this game, my expectation was that taking it as an insult, you might at least consider that possibility and make sure that you do have other grounds besides "fang and me see pretty much eye to eye on many theory questions, so I would expect him to come to the same conclusion - which implies he's not scum either." You have given other reasons, so at this point I don't think what I said is what is going on here, but at the time it was perfectly fair to at least question that.

ppe 2

[Dylan32]

scola is clearly scum, since he's been sitting on fang's wagon and there hasn't been a hammer.

vote: scola

Err... how does that make sense?

If scola is town, then fang is scum. Of course scum wouldn't quickhammer scum.... your argument would only work if scola and fang were both town, which is impossible.

It is possible they are both town. It's also possible they are both scum. But you are right that fang scum, scola town would also look like this, so scola isn't 100% scum.

Not it's not possible that they are both town. That's the whole point...

Couldn't you, joth and Didds all be scum from my perspective?

Scola and fang can't both be town because fang claimed to get a result the same night scola claimed to roleblock him, and the roleblocker can't be roleblocked, so scola's action would have for sure gone through.

[Dylan32]

I've had a read through scola's posts this game with my special scola-is-scum(TM) glasses.

And partnerwise, it is just 100% Didds. Especially this post:

...

Phase Two: Random other player votes with what *should* be the hammer. If exile happens, there were exactly two votes between Joseph and I, which means we had one mayor and one drunk as expected and we are IC (unless you genuinely think Joseph and I BOTH fakeclaimed, in which case, test one of us individually to make it mathematically 100%). If no exile, go to phase 3.

Phase Three: One more person votes. If the exile happens, one of us (Joseph) lied and the other (me) is drunk. If no exile, we are both drunks, and the wagon is for sure at X-1.

If you don't understand, doubt, or disagree with anything, please be specific with your questions in relation to this, because I've been sick this weekend and it's totally possible I'm just not thinking or typing as clearly as I think I am lol.

ppe 4

Plenty of posts have happened after this one, but my biggest issue is here Phase 2 (and 3). I don't know if we're really set to exile WCD (the current testee) and all this testing talk time is really hurting our focus.

So I'm fine with Phase 1, but it gets us very little info and then we need to regroup and determine who we may actually want to exile. Add in the fact of different time zones, not knowing when exactly mod will post new vote counts, this feels guaranteed to leave us scrambling at the last minute. Which is in the middle of the day for those of us in the US and may be hard to have a lot of time to read / post / vote.

So honestly, I think at this point we need to move past the testing and just try to play like a normal end of D1.

I'm happy with my current vote.

Didds is on 3 votes + Dylan at this point.
Phase 1 is where Joseph would vote for Didds to check for 2*mayor or mayor+scum.
Phase 2 is where someone else would then vote for Didds to check for mayor+drunk.
Phase 3 is where another player would then vote for Didds to check for drunk+scum.

And scola's post here is saying "happy with phase 1, but please don't do 2 or 3 on Didds".
Now that Joseph and Dylan are confirmed town we know that scum "knew" they could rule out the "+scum" options above. ("knew" in inverted commas because actually Joseph being VT this wasn't the case...)
So scolapasta "knew" that phase 1 was safe and phase 2 would cause Didds to be exiled.

Scola's the certain exile today, but sounds like others aren't on board with that. But I'm convinced enough that Didd's is also scum.
vote: Didds

Given how hard I had pushed against the possibility of two mayors, this actually is one of the more convincing arguments I've heard. If they thought two mayors was a real possibility like EFHW suggests, it would undermine it, but I don't think that was a possibility anyone (except maybe MiX) really thought was possible D1.

[Dylan32]

Hi hi hi!

The odds of there being two mayors seems absurdly low, right? The smart money seems like - mayor, one liar.

I’m wasn’t sure why Joseph would claim, but now realize that he successfully outed the mayor with no problem.

Consider this evidence that at least one of the potential scum in this scenario came out of N1 with the conclusion that two mayors was extremely unlikely, and that they probably discussed the options in their QT, so whoever is partnered with Didds reasonably agreed that it was very unlikely, because they might have convinced them that it was possible over the night.

[EFHW]

scola is clearly scum, since he's been sitting on fang's wagon and there hasn't been a hammer.

vote: scola

Err... how does that make sense?

If scola is town, then fang is scum. Of course scum wouldn't quickhammer scum.... your argument would only work if scola and fang were both town, which is impossible.

It is possible they are both town. It's also possible they are both scum. But you are right that fang scum, scola town would also look like this, so scola isn't 100% scum.

Not it's not possible that they are both town. That's the whole point...

Couldn't you, joth and Didds all be scum from my perspective?

Scola and fang can't both be town because fang claimed to get a result the same night scola claimed to roleblock him, and the roleblocker can't be roleblocked, so scola's action would have for sure gone through.

got it, thanks for the clarification.

[EFHW]

I'd rather not exile Didds because she might be someone's partner and that person seems like scum. We should exile that person instead.

[Dylan32]

joth and Didds. Not saying you need to vote, but I do want both of you to state which of scola and fang you think is more likely to be scum. You don't need to think they are the best exile for today; I just want everyone to be on record with their preference between the two with where things stand right now.

[jotheonah]

I'm honestly torn. fang's claim seemed really fishy, but I have to give him credit for being the first claimant -- a lot of times scum in that position will ere on the side of safety, especially in a game where they're comfortably ahead. Why not go for VT? What is his cop claim accomplishing?

His claim pinged me, but I don't have a plausible narrative for scum to make that claim in that circumstance. And faust has made some good points about the claim of being blocked being exceptionally inscrutable.

On the other hand, scola's claim strikes me as too scummy for scum. Roleblocker is such a scummy role to claim, and he had to decide to contradict fang, knowing it would force him into a 1 v 1, which, again, scum shouldn't want when they're in a strong position.

So both claims are scummy, but neither claim feels like a smart scum move.

Here's the thing. I don't think faust is scum here. And when faust isn't scum, he's usually right.

And I'm not strongly townreading Didds, which is unusual for me.

So while I'm not sure about fang vs scola on their merits, if I had to choose right now I would have to choose by proxy based on my other reads, and I'd go for scola. Or just for Didds.

[WestCoastDidds]

Hmm... okay. So, I am generally suspicious of Scola because he is being nice and chatting with me this game, any I know that is a strategy that I am susceptible to. I am everyone's buddy, but when they buddy me, it usually means that something is up! I do not like it that fang seems to be in faust's back pocket and following the leader, mostly because I do not like that faust is being imperial.
 
All that aside, I think that fang's claim, and when it occurred has a greater sense of veracity than scola's claim. Scola was obviously setting up the 1v1, and I think he was probably emboldened by being last in the IC order and leaning into the confidence. With 2 votes, your opinion matters more than anyone else. So, I would prefer Scola even though I am annoyed at fangfaust.

ppe: joth

[scolapasta]

Town!scola should have been uneasy voting at all. He can't be 100% sure about fang.

I know fang is not telling the truth (since I roleblocked him N1) and there's no good reason.