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[jotheonah]

I doubt anyone will. I didn't manage to send my night action in by deadline. I thought I had sent it, but apparently I had not. Honest IRL mistake, I've been with my family in Boston and not online much a lot of the days this week.

[Lekkit]

I'd rather not share that info.

Why?

[Lekkit]

I doubt anyone will. I didn't manage to send my night action in by deadline. I thought I had sent it, but apparently I had not. Honest IRL mistake, I've been with my family in Boston and not online much a lot of the days this week.

 And why did you not tell us this before? Are you deliberately trying to confuse us?

[jotheonah]

I didn't tell you that because I wanted to AVOID confusion. Plus I didn't see why that info was helpful to town especially.

As for your other question, I'd rather not say why I'd rather not say. Stop fishing!

[Eevee]

Eevee, I'm getting an ignorant vibe from you. Last week I was on vacation visiting my family in another part of the country. I even announced that and told it too you again when you asked where I was yestergameday. Then you totally disregarded that and called it out again. And now I can't even sleep without you jumping my throat for not posting.

Speaking of asking for reads, what are your's, Eevee?

Well I mean.. it's like Grujah explained in the aftermath of wafflemafia "I was legitimately busy, but if I was town I probably would have squeezed in more posts regardless". But I don't mean to imply I don't believe you are being busy, I just mean to wish you'd contribute more. All this talk about finally starting to care about lurking, it's not like all the other silent guys didn't have reasons too.
And.. you didn't give us any reads in your last post(s) despite me asking for them? I don't mean to be unfair, but I seriously have zero idea what you are thinking.

Saying I haven't given my reads is nothing short of ridiculous, I probably have the most or almost the most posts in this game and I've been super participating in all the major discussions. In fact, town would have done better if I DIDNT build the case against archetype and really shove it down everyone's throat despite nobody listening to me at first.. (don't really feel too bad about it though, I felt the case was solid and can't succeed unless you try right?). I was really sure Galzria is town too yesterday, something people mocked me for.

Got to leave to floorball training now, but I'll give a list-type of breakdown on my feelings/reads on everyone when I'm back.

PPE: million posts, somehow forgot to hit send when I originally meant to post this.

[Lekkit]

jo, I think

In the QT, we all shared scoops - X-shots of our powers. We had X shots at the start of the night. I used Y shots. eHalc says we have X-Y shots. Ergo, mod confirmation that Jorbles did NOT use his power. Which contradicts your report.

Is a lot more confusing than admitting that you didn't use your power. Remember the whole Masqerade tracking of RMM1? I get the same feeling from you this game. The feeling that you don't want to share the remaining scoops because Archetype said how many you had to begin with, and with some deduction it could lead back to you actually scooping Ins and Jorbles. Especially with nobody alive being able to verify the remaining scoops. It's basically your word against all the evidence that points at you. And to be frank, I am a bit surprised that the whole town seems to trust you. Right now, you are one of my top suspects.

Speaking of which, Eevee is also up there. He started out towny to me, but he's been hedging a lot. Not really saying "this" or "that", but a lot of "ifs" and "possiblys". To be honest, I don't really know where you stand on most of the players alive. You've been off and on about C_F, ESPECIALLY right after he claimed, but when most of the people decided that he was probably SK you went along with that idea. I think you've mentioned Watno, someone who I actually think has done less than me in this game, aside from using his power. Other than those two, you've mentioned me as being a lurker and ashersky as being scummy (something you've completely dropped since day 1). All your other reads that I can remember after skimming through the entire thread last night are reads of players who are now dead. So, I don't think it's unfair of me to ask you where you stand on the players alive.

Also, I've tried to find where you asked me for my reads, and haven't found it. Could you direct me, because I seem to miss it even when looking for it.

[jotheonah]

I don't know how many ways I can say "stop fishing."

[Lekkit]

My last post wasn't intended as role-/flavor- fishing. I only wanted you to know why I did it. I can accept that you don't want to share that, but I want you to know that by doing so you seem more scummy to me.

[jotheonah]

As soon as someone asked, I shared that I didn't use my power. I did not try to conceal that info.

[Captain_Frisk]

So we have either:

a. A liar within {joth, cayvie}
b. The ability to recharge scoops?
c.  Joth was roleblocked and as such did not use his Y scoops last night?

So we've had 3 people claim to know that one of these things is true?  Joth has now claimed that Y = 0 - so the C is now out - correct?  Not trying to fish - but if someone has proof of A - then we can have a much more focused discussion. 

[Lekkit]

Try to look at it from my perspective: You guys had 7 scoops to begin with. Jorbles ussed 1 according to you. Archetype didn't use any. Nobody has admitted to being fed Vanilla Ice Cream. That should leave you with 6 scoops. Unless you targeted people who are dead. Which would leave you with either 4 or 5 scoops. If it's 4, it would certainly point to you as some kind of killer, be it a Vig, SK or some weird Mafia role. If you say something else and it turns out that the spirit medium is able to channel thoughts from someone else in the Dead persons' QT to someone alive, it would be worse if it turned out to actually be 4. So you not telling us how many scoops you have left sounds really scummy to me.

And the fact that you didn't say "In the QT, we all shared scoops - X-shots of our powers. We had X shots at the start of the night. I didn't use any shots, and X is still X. Ergo, mod confirmation that Jorbles did NOT use his power. Which contradicts your report." but rather "In the QT, we all shared scoops - X-shots of our powers. We had X shots at the start of the night. I used Y shots. eHalc says we have X-Y shots. Ergo, mod confirmation that Jorbles did NOT use his power. Which contradicts your report." makes it sound like you wanted us to think that you might have used your power. While it isn't a lie it's still twisting the truth to sound like something else. If you didn't really mind sharing that you didn't use your power, why would you not say that from the beginning?

[jotheonah]

I picked that wording very carefully, because it's totally true. Y just happens to equal zero.

Anyway, I thought that would distract from the point at hand. People would zero in on it and say "Why didn't you use your power?" and then I would tell them and they might not believe me, and it was more important to me to focus on cayvie's claim and it's inconsistency with my knowledge.

I had forgotten that Archetype already shared the total number of scoops. Damn.

I believe that a town player who is X-shot should always conceal that info so scum has a WIFOM about whether they have shots left. I forgot that Archetype had already deprived me of that option.

There were 7 scoops to start. Jorbles and I each used one Night one. On Day 2, eHalc said there were five remaining. At the start of today, eHalc confirmed there were still 5 remaining. I didn't use mine.

[Captain_Frisk]

@Lekkit

Started with 7 per Archtype

Galz received Vanilla Night 1 - 6 scoops
DSell gets strawberry Night 1 - 5 scoops
Nobody gets Vanilla Night 1 - 5 scoops
Cayvie (allegedly) gets strawberry Night 1 - 4 scoops

Joth claims that Jorbles didn't use power implies 5 scoops remaining.  It's not hard to work out.  Unless Archtype had a day power that we don't know about that used scoops. 

Possibilities:

1. Cayvie is lying - unlikely given that DSell confirms verbiage of scoop delivery.
2. There is indeed a separate set of ice cream delivery men - who didn't send scoops night 1.
3. Joth is lying (to what aim I have no idea)
4. Someone else somehow gave them additional scoops.  I can't imagine who would do such a thing since I wouldn't view either of them as especially townie, but it's possible.

PPE: Joth now posted.

[Lekkit]

Forgot that Galz got vanilla night 1. My point still stands. It's pretty easy to figure out how many scoops there should be left. If jo truly had forgotten about Archetype fullclaiming, shots included, it would make sense for him not to say how many he had left. Thing is, I din't really think anyone would forget that.

[jotheonah]

Well, what I had in my head was "he claimed all the shared stuff, but I still know all my stuff." But for some reason I was mentally classifying my number of shots as "my stuff."

[shraeye]

jo: Who are you suspicious of?

This jumped out at me:

Sorry I got semi-worked up earlier, shouldn't post when I'm hungry. I stand by everything I said, but the tone was maybe a bit out of line, my bad.

Because (1) hungry is kind of a lame excuse for rude play, but (2) I don't recall the post he's apologizing for or anyone calling him out. I think scum players, especially ones who aren't entirely comfortable with lying, can be overly critical/apologetic of their own posts often.


I also still think Watno is a very possible scum candidate. His being scum would go a long way towards answering the unanswered questions about yesterday's kill.


And then there's Dsell. I happen to believe Frisk's vig claim, and I know Jorbles roleblocked Dsell yesterday. Yet when I asked Dsell initially "Did anything happen to you?" (after Jorbles had told me in the QT but not the town what he'd done) Dsell said "nothing of note."

So, to recap:

There was no extra kill the first night (if Frisk is vig and didn't fire). There was one last night (or Galz suicided). Jorbles blocked Dsell the first night. Dsell only confirmed that he was blocked when it was clear he couldn't get out of it. So Dsell is the top scumread for me.

I find myself agreeing with your take on Watno and I'm surprised by this rudeness from Eevee  who is normally very nice (small wonder he gets accused of buddying all the time).  I think I will try to reread these people later today.  I'm confused about Dsell, he's acting really suspicious to me, but all the arguments people are making are that he's the SK it seems?  That confuses me, as I still don't see how Frisk's vig kill was believable.  Could Dsell be mafia, or is he SK in your eyes?  It feels like the ice-cream kills are mafia, so if Dsell was roleblocked day 1, I don't know how that kill went off.

 Oh dear, I just realized as I typed that above that strongman kills are possible.  I know strongman goes through protection, but does it also go through roleblocks?  That may explain why Dsell didn't even realize he was 'roleblocked' until it was pointed out that he should have been.  But it doesn't explain watno's tracking results at all.  I guess all this does keep coming back to what the heck happened with watno's tracking results.

[Eevee]

Lekkit, I had a humongous scum read on archetype, the town followed and we lynched him. I was pretty sure Robz was scum, we lynched him too. I was pretty sure Galzria was town, he got nightkilled. Sure, 2/3 of my reads have been wrong, but I've certainly had some and I've been vocal about them. How can you say I'm hedging when two of my biggest scum reads have simply gotten lynched, partially because I more or less heavily pushed them?

Frisk<->Dsell, I think it's likely one of them is the serial killer. I've analyzed this numerous times, and I no one has helped me reach a conclusion but I guess it doesn't as long as we instruct the SK to kill desirable targets. I don't think Frisk can be mafia, so I don't support his lynch. Dsell could be I guess (am I forgetting something?), so that's why I'm slightly more anti-Dsell. Yesterday I agreed with Galz that either Joth or Jorbles is probably scum, and thought it was more likely to be Jorbles. Now that Jorb is dead, I don't know. Joth reads towny to me (gutread), and I just can't believe the mod would make Joth's kill flavor like that and then tell two townies (the neighborhood) he is the vanilla ice cream. That's simply not possible, at least eHalc should have given Joth the heads up that he's a mafia that can never kill or something. So, I don't support the joth lynch, and guess we probably just had a neighborhood full of townies. Joth was also a townread from early day 1, I even tried to help him catch back up then.

Ashersky felt weird to me yesterday, I don't even remember why / it has disappeared. He seems to be genuinely interested in solving the setup now, and the bigger reason is that he seems to be the guy my role pm mentions and that guy doesn't sound like anything scum-aligned (this isn't 100%, he could be but sounds more like town to me). Ftl I don't remember a whole lot of (where scum wants to be maybe?), but I made a note about a post of his that read towny to me (and said it in this thread, someone agreed with me). Shraeye always reads scummy to me, but maybe less so than usual here so that's worth noting but I don't know. I don't remember much of his opinions either, which is definitely scummy. Watno posts rarely, and usually when he does it's information about his night results. Now, we can assume he is indeed the watcher because he caught Frisk, but I don't know if that could be a scum role as well. Maybe? I don't oppose his lynch, because of the missing tracking result from night 1 (pretty big actually), but meh. There could be some other explanation.. No particular town read on cayvie (haven't seen her as scum in a game normalish like this), but have no reason to suspect her either. She has been trying to solve the setup with I appreciate. Her mini-spat with joth is weird because I think joth is town and don't really see any reason for either to lie about that.

I guess I put my money where my mouth is, Vote: Lekkit. Not sold at all on this, but I don't like not voting and at least this vote shows I don't support the joth wagon some of you seem to want to build. I encourage others to vote their biggest scum read too, you don't have to be sure about it because changing votes is rather easy. Voting patterns are the most useful thing to analyze in later days, we shouldn't let scum skate by without going on record.

[Eevee]

To my understanding strongman goes through absolutely anything.

I feel I've been rude in both games I played lately. Don't know why that is, I'll try to work on finding my mellow again. Maybe it's the new avatar?

[shraeye]

I thought cayvie already said it was her?

I'm a little confused about why Jorbles roleblocked cayvie.  I had a slight scumread on cayvie during day 1, but after the rolemadness fiasco that was day 2, cayvie really fell off my radar.  It seems like there were much better candidates for roleblocking.

[Lekkit]

Eevee: First you say you don't hedge, then you vote for me while saying that a vote could easily be changed, and therefore it's encouraged. To me, that is hedging at it's peak. You've been suspecting pretty much everyone at some point, and I think you've voted for most of the players. Maybe I've got the hedging term wrong, and what I really mean is that you can't really make up your mind.

Also, this struck me as REALLY weird.

Yesterday I agreed with Galz that either Joth or Jorbles is probably scum, and thought it was more likely to be Jorbles. Now that Jorb is dead, I don't know.

Yesterday I agreed with Galz that Joth or Jorbles is probably scum. But only if Jorbles was scum.

What makes you think that jo is framed rather than pulling a stunt on us?

[Captain_Frisk]

What makes you think that jo is framed rather than pulling a stunt on us?

Have we ever caught scum pulling a stunt?  Has scum ever pulled something outrageous and gotten away with it?

[Captain_Frisk]

Although, I do kindof feel like Joth is floundering here.

[jotheonah]

What makes you think that jo is framed rather than pulling a stunt on us?

Have we ever caught scum pulling a stunt?  Has scum ever pulled something outrageous and gotten away with it?

This is not the first time this accusation has been levelled against me. I can't help but take it as a compliment every time, that people think I am badass enough to play this way as scum. I'm not.

[Eevee]

Eevee: First you say you don't hedge, then you vote for me while saying that a vote could easily be changed, and therefore it's encouraged. To me, that is hedging at it's peak. You've been suspecting pretty much everyone at some point, and I think you've voted for most of the players. Maybe I've got the hedging term wrong, and what I really mean is that you can't really make up your mind.

Also, this struck me as REALLY weird.

Yesterday I agreed with Galz that either Joth or Jorbles is probably scum, and thought it was more likely to be Jorbles. Now that Jorb is dead, I don't know.

Yesterday I agreed with Galz that Joth or Jorbles is probably scum. But only if Jorbles was scum.

What makes you think that jo is framed rather than pulling a stunt on us?

Can someone else give their opinion, are Lekkit's accusations making ANY sense? I don't know why he's locked in on me like this.. extra-mega OMGUS for suspecting him first?

SO MUCH in your post is so blatantly obviously 100% false, I don't even know if you are intentionally making stuff up or what but wow.
Day 1, I voted Dsell in RVS to prod him to post more, then alternated between ashersky and archetype for a while (showing they are my two scum reads), then archetype went a bit crazy and I locked on him super hard, stuck my neck out to get him lynched in the most unhedgy way I can imagine, got everyone to follow me (no one suspected him before I started repeatedly asking people to reconsider!!) and we lynched him. I was obviously wrong about him, but I was VERY sure up until the flip that we caught mafia.

Day 2, I don't remember the flailing in the beginning, I recall suspecting Jorbles like I said and voting for him, until Galzria presented his Robz-case which I really bought and argued for (I'd say I was the 2nd most vocal Robz-suspector after Galzria). Again, I had a strong scum read that wound up getting lynched (and wrong again doh), but again WHERE IS THE HEDGING? I locked on a target early and didn't even talk about voting for anyone else after that.

Today, I've voted for you. HOW HAVE I VOTED FOR ALMOST EVERYBODY!?

I've also given the reason I don't suspect joth anymore like three times, last in the post you just replied to. This is not a bastard game. If joth was mafia, and knew in advance his kill flavor would be like that, he obviously wouldn't have been the one to make the kill because archetype and Jorbles knew he was the vanilla ice cream. So, for Joth to be mafia, eHalcyon, our non-bastard mod, would have needed to make joth's kills super-obvious to not one but TWO townies without warning him about it at all. That's simply too bastardly to be possible. IF JOTH WAS MAFIA, HE WAS DOOMED TO BE CAUGHT THE FIRST TIME HE MADE THEIR FACTIONAL KILL, HOW IS THAT NORMAL MAFIA? Would eHalc put a role like that in a normal game? No way. I didn't think of this until today, and because Jorbles was obviously town, I'm now forced to abandon the belief of there being scum in the ice cream neighborhood. How is considering new evidence hedgy? (and oh hedging if i was doing it wouldn't even be a scumtell imo in my case, it's not like I've been trying to distance myself from the lynches!? I've freaking tried to make them happen with all my power! Not going to present you the wifom-argument of "would i have been that confident as scum", because it's pretty meh, and you can't really know which it is, even though i do think i would have been waaay to scared to try to pull a stunt like that as scum, TWICE. But, not being 100% sure about stuff is pretty towny behavior don't you think? maybe you forgot because yourself know who is mafia and who isn't?)

Anyone else, care to weigh in on my debate with Lekkit? I think he is being super-unreasonable and don't quite frankly see why he would push so obviously false arguments against me if he was town!?

[Captain_Frisk]

Joth didn't have to disclose his flavor of ice cream to his buddies - didn't someone say they all voluntarily disclosed?  He could have told them he was pistachio.

Personally - I'm still feeling that DSell is more likely.