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[eHalcyon]

Welcome to RMM3: Read The Freaking Flavour

If you would like a link to the Spectator's QuickTopic, please send me a PM.  There will be a no-pressure Spectator's mini-game!

Sign-Ups are CLOSED! 

Join the Spectator's QT for fun times!

Players Signed Up (in alphabetical order):

• Archetype - town-aligned Chocolate Townie, lynched day 1
• ashersky - town-aligned Motivational Speaker Bot, lynched day 7
• Captain_Frisk - Evil League of Evil-aligned Jackknife of all Trades, lynched day 4
• cayvie - Serial Killer Red Herring, lynched day 6
• Dsell - town-aligned External Hard Drive, killed night 5
• Eevee - Evil League of Evil-aligned Sartorial Cyborg, lynched day 5
• ftl - town-aligned Major General Stanley, killed night 6
• Galzria - town-aligned Spiritual Medium, killed night 2
• Insomniac - town-aligned Electric Shepherd, killed night 1
• Jorbles - town-aligned Strawberry Townie, killed night 2
• jotheonah - town-aligned Vanilla Townie, killed night 4
• Robz888 - town-aligned KELPtomaniac, lynched day 2
• shraeye - Evil League of Evil-aligned Ancient Oak Tree, last standing!
• Voltaire Lekkit - town-aligned Insane Doctor, died day 5
• Watno - town-aligned CMYK War Machine 3000, lynched day 2

Day Start Links:

• Day 1 Start
• Day 2 Start
• Day 3 Start
• Day 4 Start
• Day 5 Start
• Day 6 Start
• Day 7 Start

Mafia Ruleset (stolen and modified from Volt's Mafia VII intro post)

Game Rules:

General Gameplay and Etiquette:
1. You may not quote private Moderator-supplied information (either real or fabricated) of any kind.  Paraphrasing (for role claims, etc.) is acceptable. My definition of "quote" means quoting the PM with author name, timestamp, and link intact.  You may claim that something is taken word-for-word from your role PM and you may use quote tags so long as the verifying info is omitted from the tag.
2. There is to be NO personal communication outside of the forum postings unless your role PM specifically allows it.  Mafia members may communicate at night and during the confirmation stage.
3. If you have a role with a Night action (basically everyone) your choices are due to me by the posted deadline (generally 48 hours from Night start).  If I do not receive your choice via PM by the posted deadline you will forfeit your actions.  If you have a compulsive role, it will be randomized.  In case of multiple submissions, the last valid one before the deadline will be used.
4. Roles with Night actions will not be able to submit an action on Night 0 (i.e. during the confirmation stage) unless otherwise specified.
5. Any player with a Night action may instead submit a “No Action” PM to let the Mod know that you do not want to perform your expected action that Night phase unless your action is compulsive.
6. As a general rule you should aim for one post every 48 hours, minimum, to keep the game moving.

Voting, Deadlines, and Player Death:
1. A simple majority (rounded up) of all living members must agree on one person for a lynch to occur prior to deadline.  This may be affected by certain powers.
2. Once you have reached a simple majority no further unvoting will change someone’s fate.  Further votes will also be ignored.  Unless you have a special power, of course.
3. Once a player is lynched the game enters twilight until I post a death scene; all players including the one who was lynched may continue to post during twilight.
4. Please submit votes as: Vote: PlayerName.  Votes will NOT be counted if they are not bold or do not follow this syntax!  Obvious abbreviations or nicknames will be counted so long as they are unambiguous.
5. Please submit vote revocations as either Unvote: PlayerName or Unvote. Unvotes are not necessary before changing votes.
6. You may Vote: No Lynch - a simple majority of these vote types are required to send the game to Night phase without a lynch.
7. This game will generally have 2 week deadlines.  If a player or No Lynch does not have a simple majority at deadline, no lynch will occur, and the game will go into night.
8. Once you are killed (either via lynch or night kill) you may no longer post. This means that you do not even get a “Bah” post. The dead in this game are silent.  Mostly.
9. Do not edit or delete posts.  We don't want some players having more information than others.  If you want to clarify posts, feel free to double post.

Miscellaneous/Mechanics:
1. Bold, blue text is reserved for the Mod.  No invisible/small text is allowed, nor is cryptography.
2. If you have an issue/problem with the game, please PM the Mod privately.  Do not post issues/complaints in the game thread.
3. The Mod may make mistakes - please point out any mistakes gently.  Mistakes will be corrected where possible, but sometimes mistakes are made that cannot be reversed.  These will stand as final to be commiserated over after the game.
4. Please bold all requests to the Mod so that they don’t get missed.
5. Prods of missing players will NOT be issued automatically.  It is your responsibility to watch out for lurkers. A prod will be issued upon request after 48 hours of no activity.  A prodded player has 48 hours to respond or risks replacement.  A player who has been prodded 3 times is subject to replacement without further notice.
6. Rule violations will be dealt with according to their severity, up to and including a Modkill.
7. If you anticipate being unavailable for more than a 48-hour period please post a notice to that effect in the thread.  Treat this game as a commitment.  Be considerate – don’t leave us hanging.

The Golden Rule:

Please remember that this is a game and your main objective is to have fun! Be considerate of each other, don’t get personal, and enjoy the game.

Helpful Links:

• Main Wiki Page
  
  
• Newbie Guide
  
  
• Frequently Asked Questions
  
  
• Commonly Used Abbreviations
  
  
• Mafia Theory

Game Setup
Game Setup information:

Every player will be provided with four pieces of information:

Flavour name: This is your name.  It influences the result returned to flavour cops.  An example might be Sherlock Holmes.  A flavour cop might learn that this player wears a hat.  A different flavour cop might learn that this player is fictional.

Role name: This is your role (or a close approximation) in “official” Mafia parlance.  If I cannot find an official role name that matches, it will be something that at least sounds official.  It may be the result returned to role cops.  "Role Cop" is an example of a role name.

Alignment: This is your alignment. 

Abilities: This is what you can do.

The game will have a simpler set up -- No cults, no alignment flipping at all.  No post restrictions!

Dead Mafia cannot post in their Mafia QT.  Players will get access to the Dead Player QT when they die.

On death, flavour name and alignment will be revealed.

I say again that flavour is important.  Think carefully before roleclaiming, because some players may be able to put that info to good (or bad) use.

TO CLARIFY, I AM NOT A MODERATOR OF F.DS IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM.  IN THE CONTEXT OF THIS GAME, I AM MODERATING THAT THE RULES ARE FOLLOWED AND HIDDEN ACTIONS ARE COMPLETED PROPERLY.

[Dsell]

IN

[Galzria]

VIII over? Check.
Dead in IX? Check.
Dead everywhere else? Check.

In.

[Voltaire]

/in

[ftl]

/in .

[Captain_Frisk]

/in

Might not read flavor

[Jorbles]

/in

[Robz888]

In.

[Grujah]

Hm... I don't know if it will be too much, cuz I'll join Volts game too..
But I tihnk I can handle it.

/in!!!

[Eevee]

Me too me too!

[Voltgloss]

Backup mod, reporting for duty.

You guys are in for quite a ride. 

[ashersky]

/in

[Insomniac]

/in

will NOT read flavour just to make eHal a sad panda.

[Insomniac]

(JK)

[Archetype]

/in

[yuma]

Not in, but bumping so I can watch; the mini-game sounds intriguing, but there is so much pressure attached to it...

[shraeye]

yaa yaa yaa.  I'm in.

[jotheonah]

so in

[Galzria]

That's 14 of 15 by my count. Room for one more.

[eHalcyon]

Not in, but bumping so I can watch; the mini-game sounds intriguing, but there is so much pressure attached to it...

There is seriously no pressure.  It's more of a meta-game than a mini-game.  You don't have to participate if you don't want to, though you will probably want to.  Trust me.




OP updated.  There is indeed room for one more.

[cayvie]

/in

[Watno]

Omg, you can't go to bed without missing a game
Guess I'll spectate then...

[Grujah]

Better don't get into QT, so you can replace in if needed.

Actually, I might give you my spot, I'd rather do MXII than this.

[Grujah]

There you go, /out

 

Put me in replacement queue, though. 

[Watno]

/in then.
Thx Grujah

[pingpongsam]

This one filled up before I ever saw it!

[jotheonah]

I think I'm in 4 games now. WHAT HAVE I DONE.

[Glooble]

Could I have the speccy QT link?

[eHalcyon]

Could I have the speccy QT link?

Absolutely, but not until the game starts.  I haven't actually made QTs yet.

Also, the nature of the mini-game (and I might note that the term is used fairly loosely here) is such that it might make it awkward for spectators to become replacements, should that need arise.  Still mulling that one over.

[Lekkit]

I'm up for a replacement role if needed.

[eHalcyon]

Updated, replacing Grujah with Watno.

I would quite like to start this today (Monday) but I probably won't have time.  And I suppose I should still wait for BMV to end.

[Robz888]

Updated, replacing Grujah with Watno.

I would quite like to start this today (Monday) but I probably won't have time.  And I suppose I should still wait for BMV to end.

Oh, don't start it Monday. There are 2 games starting tomorrow! Give it a couple days.

[shraeye]

I'd love it if we gave blitz at least 2 game-days first.  Playing in the huge Robz game and the quick blitz game, it will probably not be manageable for me if this starts today. (by not manageable, I mean I would manage, but my work output for this week would go waaay down)

[Dsell]

I'm ready to read some role pm flavor! Even if there is a long pregame.

[Jorbles]

If we do that can we have a thread lock until game start? I don't want to have any pregame reading to do based on people's reactions to their PMs.

Edit: Once the PMs are actually sent of course.

[shraeye]

I'd prefer if the flavor PMs were sent closer to gamestart

[eHalcyon]

What if PMs were already sent, but some roles just don't get PMs?

What if the game has already started?

[Captain_Frisk]

I am vanilla town - I think we should random Vote.

Vote: Captain_Frisk

[Jorbles]

[Galzria]

Seeeend Theeeeem

[jotheonah]

I am vanilla town - I think we should random Vote.

Vote: Captain_Frisk

bitter, are we?

[Captain_Frisk]

I am vanilla town - I think we should random Vote.

Vote: Captain_Frisk

bitter, are we?

I don't know what you're talking about - you might be crossing a line somewhere.

[Voltgloss]

[eHalcyon]

On a serious note, do people want to start soon, or give it another few days?  I think I will take some time to do all the set up (e.g. create the 7 Horcrux QTs) tonight.

[Archetype]

Id wait another day or 2

[Captain_Frisk]

I want my role now, but the game to start next week

[Galzria]

I want my role now, but the game to start next week

[Eevee]

Next monday sounds like a good time to start it, yes.

[ftl]

I'm in no hurry to start this. Robz's game is SO HUGE, it's hard to keep track of.

[Dsell]

I want my role now, but the game to start next week

I'm in no hurry to start this. Robz's game is SO HUGE, it's hard to keep track of.

Yeah, after being away from the forum for a couple hours and coming back to several new pages in that game, I'm beginning to agree.

But getting role madness role PMs is like Christmas morning.

[Captain_Frisk]

So.... About that role......

[Galzria]

So.... About that role......

[Captain_Frisk]

I need it.

[Galzria]

I need it.

Addict. Call 1-888-obv-scum for help.

[eHalcyon]

So for reals then?  Send role soon, but start the game on Monday?

By the way, the Flavour in the game title refers to Bernie Bott's Every Flavour Beans.

And when Volt said that you guys are in for a wild ride, he is referring to the Quidditch tournament coming up on Day 3.

[cayvie]

Wait, this is Harry Potter themed?

[Galzria]

Wait, this is Harry Potter themed?

I just had the SAME reaction! And read back through the 3 pages to see if I missed the memo.

[eHalcyon]

(e.g. create the 7 Horcrux QTs)

[eHalcyon]

Fun fact: I had a Watcher role that was inspired by BMV.  The player would select music (via a youtube video) and the target and anyone who targeted that target would hear the music.  It was a super weak Watcher role because if the player simply didn't mention hearing the music, they would not be "seen".  It would be funny because they could troll people by playing Darth Vader music.  But since Jigglypuff was a lot more like that than I expected, that role is being replaced.

[Eevee]

Wait, this is Harry Potter themed?

Those smileys aren't enough.

IS IT?

[yuma]

Ah man! I was going to do a Harry Potter theme when I next hosted!!! O well, looks fun

[Eevee]

Ah man! I was going to do a Harry Potter theme when I next hosted!!! O well, looks fun

You still should.

[jotheonah]

Fun fact: I had a Watcher role that was inspired by BMV.  The player would select music (via a youtube video) and the target and anyone who targeted that target would hear the music.  It was a super weak Watcher role because if the player simply didn't mention hearing the music, they would not be "seen".  It would be funny because they could troll people by playing Darth Vader music.  But since Jigglypuff was a lot more like that than I expected, that role is being replaced.

I'll get out of your brain now

[Dsell]

Wait, this is Harry Potter themed?

I just had the SAME reaction! And read back through the 3 pages to see if I missed the memo.

Me too! I thought I was ALREADY ignoring the flavor.

Accidentally, of course.

[Insomniac]

Less interested in this if its Harry Potter.

[Robz888]

I, however, am MORE interested if it's Harry Potter. Although I don't ever again expect to get a Bastard Mafia character role as exciting for me as Fire Nation Princess Azula...

[jotheonah]

I just finished rereading AND rewatching Harry Potter. So I am so ready.

[shraeye]

Hah, I may need to be refreshed as things go along.  I've read all books, and seen all movies exactly once.  I have however, watched "Dear Reader: Wizard People" probably 30+ times.

[Galzria]

How can I read the frickingfricking flavor when I ain't got no flavor to read!?!

[shraeye]

maybe since the flavor is Harry Potter, he is demanding that we quick read 7 book before this starts next week.

[Jorbles]

Hah, I may need to be refreshed as things go along.  I've read all books, and seen all movies exactly once.  I have however, watched "Wizard People, Dear Reader" probably 30+ times.

ftfy

But seriously Wizard People, Dear Reader would be the awesomest flavour. Professor Catface Meowmers, Dumbledore the Near-Dead, Hagar the Horrible and Hardcastle McCormick are way better characters than the Rowling versions.

[shraeye]

Tony the Shrimp and Otterpop!

[eHalcyon]

Gonna go out for lunch.  When I get back I will make QTs and send out role PMs and then semi-lock the thread.  You may post if you wish the game to start earlier (because maybe roles will excite you?!); if people are willing to be patient then the game will start on Monday, which someone suggested earlier.  It can start earlier (maybe tomorrow) if 5 people want it to start earlier.  5 is a third of the players, which is a decent number.  I personally want to start it sooner.

[jotheonah]

1/5 for sooner

[Galzria]

Well it either needs to start tomorrow, to avoid weekend drag (bad for a fledgling game), or launch Monday. Given the other ongoing games, I would cast my vote for PM now (now! Hurry hurry!) And them waiting to launch.

However, I won't complain about starting tomorrow either.

[Voltaire]

Start Monday, for sure! Ideally new big games will start late on D2/any time on D3/early on D4 to try to spread out the games. There's not that much of a problem with lots of games at once, but lots of D1 and D2 at once is what is terrible. I definitely don't think this should launch until MXI and MXII are both out of D1.

[shraeye]

I vote for Monday start as well.

[Captain_Frisk]

Vote: GIVE ME MY PM NOW!

[eHalcyon]

Start Monday, for sure! Ideally new big games will start late on D2/any time on D3/early on D4 to try to spread out the games. There's not that much of a problem with lots of games at once, but lots of D1 and D2 at once is what is terrible. I definitely don't think this should launch until MXI and MXII are both out of D1.

That could be 2 weeks, no?  MXI is basically out of RVS anyway.  Don't know about XII, not following it.

QTs created.  Checking over the PMs now to see if there are any last minute changes to make.

[Voltaire]

That could be 2 weeks, no?  MXI is basically out of RVS anyway.  Don't know about XII, not following it.

RVS isn't the problem. It's the size of the game, and ease of following for those in multiple games. Some people play every game and get killed early in all of them. Some people play every game and live a long time. I think if this game starts too soon we'll continue the cycle of too much mafia, not enough mafia, too much mafia, etc.

[jotheonah]

PMs! PMs! PMs!

(don't make me, like, Rita Skeeter or Hagrid, k?)

[eHalcyon]

PMs! PMs! PMs!

(don't make me, like, Rita Skeeter or Hagrid, k?)

Everyone is an anonymous house elf.

[jotheonah]

Well that makes sense, given that elf-magic is demonstrably more powerful than wizard-magic.

[eHalcyon]

Thread SEMI-LOCKED!

Feel free to post your opinion on when to start this game.  I am now leaning towards Monday. 

Do NOT comment on anything else, including but not limited to:

• What you think of your role.
• Your bean flavour.
• Your House.
• Your best spell.
• Your starting location in the castle.
• What you saw in the Mirror of Erised.
• Your Patronus.

[eHalcyon]

I am going to start sending out role PMs but it will be fairly slow going.  I've decided to proof-read them as I send them.

Scum may post in their QTs.  Everyone else is locked.

[Jorbles]

I prefer Monday Monday Monday.

[cayvie]

Monday's good!

[eHalcyon]

(Also slow going because I am letting myself be distracted by other things.)

Oh, don't reveal what Chocolate Frog cards you have either.  Some are pretty rare in the setup, and they'll be coveted for the bonus you get when you complete your set.

[Galzria]

(Also slow going because I am letting myself be distracted by other things.)

Oh, don't reveal what Chocolate Frog cards you have either.  Some are pretty rare in the setup, and they'll be coveted for the bonus you get when you complete your set.

0.o

Monday is good.

[cayvie]

Chocolate Frogs? This is madness!








ROLE MADNESS

[eHalcyon]

Chocolate Frogs? This is madness!

ROLE MADNESS

Thread is semi-locked!  Refrain from such discussion.

[Watno]

Ok with monday, also ok with earlier

[Galzria]

I'm bored. I'm gonna change my vote to "sooner" instead of "Monday"

[eHalcyon]

I think it will be left to Monday, unless there is an overwhelming change of opinion.

Spectator QT is made, but I won't invite people to it until the game is about to start.  These are people on my list of people to invite:

yuma
Glooble
PPS
Grujah

It may get slightly tricky if we need a replacement, but it should be OK.  It would be more fun if we get even more people into the Spectator QT.

[eHalcyon]

By the way, I am waiting for confirmations.  If I have received any communication from you about your role (or seen you post in a non-locked QT), I have already marked you down as confirmed.  Otherwise, please confirm here or by PM.  And if you want, feel free to confirm again even if I might have you confirmed already.



Also, if I didn't tell you what your wand was (wood, length, core and flexibility) then you are probably a Squib.  Sorry!  But squibs are cool too.  Filch is basically the main character in the books anyway.

[Archetype]

Confirmed!

[jotheonah]

Confirmato!

[Eevee]

Confirmed!

[Robz888]

Exptecto Confirmum!

[Dsell]

Confirmed!

[shraeye]

Confirm me as well!

[ftl]

confirmed

[Insomniac]

Confirmed.

[cayvie]

sure, confirmed

[Watno]

Confirm
Although I'd love to get some extra information from the spectator qt, I think you shoul remove me from the list, since I'm playing.

[ashersky]

Confirmation is grand, and this is it!

[eHalcyon]

Confirm
Although I'd love to get some extra information from the spectator qt, I think you shoul remove me from the list, since I'm playing.

Oops. Right, you replaced Gruj.

[shraeye]

Did I not see where we decided to start?  When is the start of this game going to be?

[Eevee]

I think it will be left to Monday, unless there is an overwhelming change of opinion.

This is the last we've heard from eHalc, and since there hasn't been an overwhelming change of opinion, I think it's pretty safe to assume it's going to be monday.

[Galzria]

I wanna start now.

[shraeye]

I'm willing to agree with Galz, changing my opinion from before.  Now now now!  Especially if ZM3 is supposed to start Monday, is it?

[Robz888]

I still say Monday. Starting right before the weekend isn't a good idea.

[Eevee]

I'm willing to agree with Galz, changing my opinion from before.  Now now now!  Especially if ZM3 is supposed to start Monday, is it?

Nope, that's wednesday.

[Voltaire]

I'd still prefer this wait until MXI is out of D1, but ah well. Monday is better than today or the weekend.

[Jorbles]

I think a now or weekend start will end up with most of us just lurk-starting. Let's wait until Monday.

[eHalcyon]

I think it will be left to Monday, unless there is an overwhelming change of opinion.

Spectator QT is made, but I won't invite people to it until the game is about to start.  These are people on my list of people to invite:

yuma
Glooble
PPS
Grujah

It may get slightly tricky if we need a replacement, but it should be OK.  It would be more fun if we get even more people into the Spectator QT.

Cuzz
Ozle




Game will start Monday... or maybe late Sunday night.

[eHalcyon]

The new plan is to start this at around 5pm MDT on Sunday night.  Look forward to it!

[eHalcyon]

Loading...

Down a flight of stairs and behind a beautiful portrait of a bowl of fruit lies the Hogwarts kitchen and its staff of industrious house elves. 

House elves in general are largely underappreciated.  They'll never win any prizes and they won't make headlines in the Daily Prophet, but house elves run basically the entire wizarding world.  All of the major events in history have involved house elves in some capacity, though Bathilda Bagshot never saw fit to mention them in her writings. 4e

But that's all well and good -- house elves are happy to serve in secret.  To accomplish all of one's tasks without gaining notice is the mark of a good house elf, after all!  With the start of a new year at Hogwarts, the elves are once again busy.  65 There is always more food to prepare, common rooms to clean and suits of armor to polish.  With so much work to do, the house elves have never been 6f happier.

But all that changed when 20 the Fire Nation attacked the Common Rooms were trashed.  Also, Sappy the House-Elf was murdered.  BUT THE COMMON ROOMS 69.

Egads!  Zounds! 73 What an unexpected development!

Who could have done such a deplorable deed?  Now, the house elves must work together to solve this terrible crime.  20 Most wizards and witches are, of course, too busy to get involved -- and rightly so!  But perhaps a handful of overly-sentimal Hogwarts students and staff might assist the house elves in rooting out the dark, messy powers at work.  One thing is for sure -74- those rooms need to be cleaned before the students arrive, and they'll be arriving in just a few hours (mod note: this does not reflect any real passage of time)! 68 DRAMA! 65 TENSION! 20 MAGIC!

But that's 6f all well and good -- house elves 6e are happy to serve in secret.  To accomplish all of 65 one's tasks without 2e gaining notice is the mark of a good house elf, after all!  With the start of a new year at Hogwarts, the elves are once again busy.  The elves are once again busy.  Once again buzyzzt.

Thus begins Role Madness Mafia 3: Read the Freaking Flavour.


Status:

0/4 common rooms cleaned
0/10 beans consumed
3/12 cards missing
0/4 dementors defeated

Next Quidditch match is scheduled for Day 3 (Ravenclaw vs. Slytherin) but may be postponed if their common rooms have not been cleaned by that day.





Day 1 Start

Vote Count 1.1

Not voting (15): Archetype, ashersky, Captain_Frisk, cayvie, Dsell, Eevee, ftl, Galzria, Insomniac, Jorbles, jotheonah, Robz888, shraeye, Voltaire, Watno

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

Lynch deadline: Monday, October 8, 5:00pm MDT

[Robz888]

Avada Kedavra: Scum

Problem solved.

[Galzria]

I just skimmed the flavor, but I see numbers everywhere. Anyone care to compile?


Nah, I'll not be lazy and do it in a little bit.

[Galzria]

4e
65
6f
20
69
73
20
-74-
68
65
20
6f
6e
65
2e

[jotheonah]

I wonder how the cleaning of common rooms is accomplished. This is a very odd game.

[Galzria]

Interesting, there are 15 "codes", and 15 players. Not sure if they're related.

[jotheonah]

I don't think -74- is the code. I think the number 74 was just inserted in the middle of a "--"

[cayvie]

4e
65
6f
20
69
73
20
-74-
68
65
20
6f
6e
65
2e

8 begin with 6
4 begin with 2
2 begin with 7
1 begins with 4

factions?

[Archetype]

4e
65
6f
20
69
73
20
-74-
68
65
20
6f
6e
65
2e

8 begin with 6
4 begin with 2
2 begin with 7
1 begins with 4

factions?

The letters must be important, otherwise eHalc probably would have just stuck with numbers. But not all of them have letters.

Maybe # of letters equals # of scum?

[cayvie]

i think it's hexadecimal

[jotheonah]

here's the list re-ordered numerically/ alphabetically:

20
20
20
2e
4e
65
65
65
68
69
6e
6f
6f
73
74

...can we start playing mafia now?

[Galzria]

here's the list re-ordered numerically/ alphabetically:

20
20
20
2e
4e
65
65
65
68
69
6e
6f
6f
73
74

...can we start playing mafia now?

It's like BMMM. There's more important stuff than RVS.  I would listen to the mod when he says "read the fricking flavor", and then he laces it with quite a number (pun intended) of oddities.

[jotheonah]

I preferred the poem.

[ashersky]

I want to say we should all believe in ourselves.  Together, we can do anything!

[Robz888]

I want to say we should all believe in ourselves.  Together, we can do anything!

Vote: ashersky

[ashersky]

I want to say we should all believe in ourselves.  Together, we can do anything!

Vote: ashersky

Vote: Robz because OMGUS can also mean Ourselves Make Great Uplifting Stars!

[shraeye]

Asher, +1 for your new take on OMGUS.  I dislike acronyms and love it when people make up meanings.  Also, cayvie,  as soon as I saw the ones with letters

i think it's hexadecimal

is exactly where my mind went.  I was initially thinking it could be a code, with the letters before or after the "hexa-numbers" filling in a crucial sentence or something.  But there are, for example, multiple times the number 20 shows up and the letters surrounding it aren't the same.  So that idea is either wrong, or I was thinking of too simplistic of a code.

[Archetype]

I want to say we should all believe in ourselves.  Together, we can do anything!

Vote: ashersky

Vote: Robz because OMGUS can also mean Ourselves Make Great Uplifting Stars!

It could mean Only Mafia Guesses Unlikely Suspects

[ashersky]

I want to say we should all believe in ourselves.  Together, we can do anything!

Vote: ashersky

Vote: Robz because OMGUS can also mean Ourselves Make Great Uplifting Stars!

It could mean Only Mafia Guesses Unlikely Suspects

I think this could be a new contest for us.  Best new definition for an acronym wins.

Anyway, how long do we plan on the RVS/silly portion of the game to last?  Will someone suggest random D1 lynch? 

[Archetype]

Random lynch worked well in the last Blitz Game (actually really well! D1 scum lynch ftw!)

I don't want to be the one to lead the random lynch though, any leaders/suggestions for lynch targets?

[shraeye]

No and no.  If someone wants to lead random lynch again, I will vehemently defy them as I did in ZM2.  It's a bad idea, becuase it makes all future days harder at the expense hoping to be more likely to hit scum Day1.  In ZM2, the only reason Frisk's partner Robz was caught is because we had so many cops.  He was literally the last suspect of many many players.

And no I have no lynch targets to suggest, because this has been open for less than 3 hours.

Here's a totally non-serious suggestion. Let's all come up with new phrases for OMGUS and whoever wins picks the lynchee.  Or whoever loses gets lynched.

[Archetype]

Here's a totally non-serious suggestion. Let's all come up with new phrases for OMGUS and whoever wins picks the lynchee.  Or whoever loses gets lynched.

I do like that idea.

Maybe your right about the random lynch. The only reason we caught the mafia, is because their scumbuddy rigged the system to have them be the 'random lynch'

I like my acronym, but ashersky's is pretty cool too.

[Dsell]

'Sup guys!

No random lynch, please!

[jotheonah]

'Sup guys!

No random lynch, please!

Obvcsum. Vote: Dsell

[shraeye]

'Sup guys!

No random lynch, please!

Obvcsum. Vote: Dsell

Scared of people who back up shraeye's opinion, yet not gutsy enough to vote shraeye, eh?

[Dsell]

'Sup guys!

No random lynch, please!

Obvcsum. Vote: Dsell

Oh, My Guilt's Über Strong!

Vote: Jotheonah

[jotheonah]

'Sup guys!

No random lynch, please!

Obvcsum. Vote: Dsell

Scared of people who back up shraeye's opinion, yet not gutsy enough to vote shraeye, eh?

Actually I missed all the posts between 136 and 139 some how.

Also, yes, shraeye, I'm utterly terrified of you.

[Galzria]

Obviously My Gut Understands Scumslips.

Vote: Robz

[jotheonah]

Odin's Magic Guitar's Unused Strings.

Oh wait, I don't think I know how this game works.

[Galzria]

Obviously My Gut Understands Scumslips.

Vote: Robz

By the way, I'm voting Robz because he tried to cast an illegal scum curse.

[shraeye]

Obviously Must Get Understood Somehow, because people keep missing his posts.

[jotheonah]

O Makes Galzria Understandably Snarky.

[Archetype]

O Makes Galzria Understandably Snarky.

+1

This...this is the one to beat

[shraeye]

O Makes Galzria Understandably Snarky.

+1

This...this is the one to beat

agreed.

[Robz888]

Obviously My Gut Understands Scumslips.

Vote: Robz

By the way, I'm voting Robz because he tried to cast an illegal scum curse.

Imperio: Galzria

Now you have to do whatever I say. As for the rest of you, Reducto

[cayvie]

4e
65
6f
20
69
73
20
-74-
68
65
20
6f
6e
65
2e

guys! if these numbers are codes for the players' alignments, then surely the scum are the three 20s. let's see who they line up with in the player list!

4, 7, and 11.

cayvie, ftl, jotheonah

found our scum, guys.

wait

[Robz888]

Alright, well let me know when somebody smart cracks the code. In the meantime I'll probably just cast random spells at people. Expelliarmus: Cayvie

[eHalcyon]

Our Musical Goblins Ululate Soulfully
Owl Mail: Great Units Sent

[Archetype]

Our Musical Goblins Ululate Soulfully
Owl Mail: Great Units Sent

Harry Potter themed!

Also,this is going to be my last post for today. Will be back around mid-day tommorow.

[Eevee]

i will insta-vote for the next one who suggests random lynch. in zm, the only one who voted frisk for random reasons was his scumbuddy!


as for the code and generally deciphering ehalc's flavor - i suck at math and in the english language, so apologies but i expect to be of very little help there. someone noted the different numbers might mean factions which sounds plausible. 8 townies, 4 mafia (probably dementors, as mentioned in the opening post?), a serial killer (what other faction could have only one member?) and two.. somethings
(i would guess something town-aligned or at meast anti-scum, because 5 scum / 15 players is already quite a lot). i dont think a cult is very likely, ehalc already ran a game where a cult aggravated half of the players.

[Eevee]

No one seems to be up, so I'll just talk to myself. Reread the first post and found this:

Welcome to RMM3: Read The Freaking Flavour
The game will have a simpler set up -- No cults, no alignment flipping at all.  No post restrictions!

So no cults this time. Also no traitors. No post restrictions.

[ftl]

Hex seems like a good idea, but might not be because the numbers are just too big. The smallest one (20) is actually 32 in decimal, and the largest (74) is 116 in decimal. What could ehalc want with such a range of numbers? 

PPE: maybe it's ascii. Checking now.

[ftl]

Yep. Ascii. Spells out "Neo is the one."

[ftl]

(including capitalization and the period at the end)

[ftl]

(For those who do not have a computery background but still want to know what I'm talking about, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ascii for an overview, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ascii#ASCII_printable_characters for a table for converting between hexadecimal and ascii, and http://www.dolcevie.com/js/converter.html for a random hex-ascii converter I found online.)

[Eevee]

Yep. Ascii. Spells out "Neo is the one."

So it was just a distraction then? Or is Neo somehow relevant to this game?

[ftl]

No idea.

[Eevee]

Uhm yeah I meant to say "I'm inclined to think eHalc was just messing with us then, anyone disagree?"

[cayvie]

Alright, well let me know when somebody smart cracks the code. In the meantime I'll probably just cast random spells at people. Expelliarmus: Cayvie

>:|

Accio wand

how rude.

More seriously: does anyone suspect that we're not actually in Hogwarts, but in a faltering computer simulation of Hogwarts? And that's what the whole

With the start of a new year at Hogwarts, the elves are once again busy.  The elves are once again busy.  Once again buzyzzt.

business is about?

'twould fit with the Matrix reference.

[shraeye]

Nifty, ftl.  I hadn't thought of ascii.  Also, to go with cayvie's reference to the "elves are once again busy. Once again buzyzzt", the whole flavor starts with

Loading...

This will be flavorful indeed.

[Jorbles]

(For those who do not have a computery background but still want to know what I'm talking about, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ascii for an overview, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ascii#ASCII_printable_characters for a table for converting between hexadecimal and ascii, and http://www.dolcevie.com/js/converter.html for a random hex-ascii converter I found online.)

I redid ftl's work and it does indeed say "Neo is the one." Maybe it's an anagram?

[Jorbles]

Nifty, ftl.  I hadn't thought of ascii.  Also, to go with cayvie's reference to the "elves are once again busy. Once again buzyzzt", the whole flavor starts with

Loading...

This will be flavorful indeed.

Maybe we think we are house elves, but we are actually in the matrix! [Insert Conspiracy Keanu meme for every post forever now.]

[Jorbles]

Also, Vote: Cypher.

[shraeye]

Also, Vote: Cypher.

Yeah, Cypher is obvscum. 
Vote: Cypher

[Galzria]

I'll wagon that.

Vote: Cypher

Btw, good work ftl.

[Jorbles]

Is it actually useful for us to be trying to determine all this flavour related stuff or a distraction? Unless someone can awaken us all to our matrix-y abilities and how knowledge of that changes the game is it actually useful to talk about? Does anyone have any useful clues to provide?

[Insomniac]

I don't think the flavour is relevant yet, probably will be on later days though.

[Galzria]

I disagree. Town power comes from knowledge, and this game was based on flavor. I believe going as far as we can to decipher and collect as much meaning as possible from said flavor will only benefit town. How? We may not know yet. But eHal made it clear that it would be important, and anybody who followed RMM-I closely knows that when he writes flavor, he does so with a direct purpose. I think we would ignore it at our own risk.

[Insomniac]

I disagree. Town power comes from knowledge, and this game was based on flavor. I believe going as far as we can to decipher and collect as much meaning as possible from said flavor will only benefit town. How? We may not know yet. But eHal made it clear that it would be important, and anybody who followed RMM-I closely knows that when he writes flavor, he does so with a direct purpose. I think we would ignore it at our own risk.

What I mean is that we don't have enough information to decipher what he means yet, but on later days this flavour will become relevant.

[ftl]

The title of the game is "Read the Freaking Flavor". So presumably the flavor matters. I *hope* that eHalc didn't put all that in as just a distraction, that would be annoying. And it would make no sense to put something like that in the opening post and have deciphering it help mafia and not town...

I'm not sure how to connect the flavor to a lynch candidate yet, though. Neo is obvtown?

Vote: Cypher how many to lynch somebody who isn't in the game?

[Insomniac]

The title of the game is "Read the Freaking Flavor". So presumably the flavor matters. I *hope* that eHalc didn't put all that in as just a distraction, that would be annoying. And it would make no sense to put something like that in the opening post and have deciphering it help mafia and not town...

I'm not sure how to connect the flavor to a lynch candidate yet, though. Neo is obvtown?

Vote: Cypher how many to lynch somebody who isn't in the game?

My way of interpreting Neo is the one is that he is the Serial Killer. The only faction that has a single person in it.

[Jorbles]

The title of the game is "Read the Freaking Flavor". So presumably the flavor matters. I *hope* that eHalc didn't put all that in as just a distraction, that would be annoying. And it would make no sense to put something like that in the opening post and have deciphering it help mafia and not town...

I'm not sure how to connect the flavor to a lynch candidate yet, though. Neo is obvtown?

Vote: Cypher how many to lynch somebody who isn't in the game?

My way of interpreting Neo is the one is that he is the Serial Killer. The only faction that has a single person in it.

That's possible, but it seems more likely to me that he is town and we get from benefit from protecting him. Possibly we are hindered in some way if he dies? Or alternately maybe he can't be NKed, which would fit with the movie.

[Eevee]

So we are assuming Neo is one of us players in the game then?

@Galzria
I agree with Ins here. Flavor is going to matter, yes, but probably a little later than day 1.

[Captain_Frisk]

Vote: Insomniac for wanting to kill humanities savior?

[Insomniac]

Oh boy oh boy!
Vote:Frisk

For 3 reasons
1) Always scum
2) OMGUS
3) ZM3 requires Frisk die

[shraeye]

I disagree. Town power comes from knowledge, and this game was based on flavor. I believe going as far as we can to decipher and collect as much meaning as possible from said flavor will only benefit town. How? We may not know yet. But eHal made it clear that it would be important, and anybody who followed RMM-I closely knows that when he writes flavor, he does so with a direct purpose. I think we would ignore it at our own risk.

Oh, so eHalc did RMM-I as well?  Can somebody catch me up to speed with their take on his flavor and how it affected the game.  That would be a good primer for me and others who aren't familiar with RMMI.

[shraeye]

Oh boy oh boy!
Vote:Frisk

For 3 reasons
1) Always scum
2) OMGUS
3) ZM3 requires Frisk die

Which variation on OMGUS is reason 2? Could you please specify, thanks.

[Galzria]

Actually, I do know that there is an above average powerful town player in this game (don't know who though), and that it will very much be in the Towns interest to protect them. So "Neo is the one." Fits that well. My point is, we should tread carefully, and pay very close attention to the flavor - even now.

[Insomniac]

Oh boy oh boy!
Vote:Frisk

For 3 reasons
1) Always scum
2) OMGUS
3) ZM3 requires Frisk die

Which variation on OMGUS is reason 2? Could you please specify, thanks.

Obviously the Majourity Genuinely think Your Scum

[Insomniac]

Oh boy oh boy!
Vote:Frisk

For 3 reasons
1) Always scum
2) OMGUS
3) ZM3 requires Frisk die

Which variation on OMGUS is reason 2? Could you please specify, thanks.

Obviously the Majourity Genuinely think Your Scum

Additionally I think trying to give new meanings to the acronym is stupid and its a useful acronym for a reason.

[ftl]

Sad how discussion of flavor turns into rolefishing Galz, you didn't need to reveal that info!

[Captain_Frisk]

Oh boy oh boy!
Vote:Frisk

For 3 reasons
1) Always scum
2) OMGUS
3) ZM3 requires Frisk die

Which variation on OMGUS is reason 2? Could you please specify, thanks.

Obviously the Majority Genuinely think Your Scum

FTFY

[Eevee]

Mild town read on Frisk, he must know by now that voting Ins pretty much always results in him voting back, and in my experience scum Frisk would want to avoid the attention rather than risk getting a bunch of RVS votes. Implies he doesn't care that much about being suspected, which always reads towny to me.

Actually, now that I started thinking about it, are we doing RVS wrong? It seems to me we always end up pressuring the same guys (hi robz), and others (like myself) always skate through it completely unsuspected. I've always been town and maybe that somehow shows, but our terrible day1 lynch record begs to differ. I dont know, just a thought, maybe we should actively try to pressure the less confrontational guys more and cut the usual suspects some slack?

@Galzria
While interesting (and it helps us to stop the useless speculation, seems Neo is indeed a person), maybe that info would have been better left hidden? Don't see how it benefits us to know we have a superhuman in our midst, but scum can maybe somehow identify him? Idk, like they know not to shoot you because they know you are not Neo? We had this long theory-talk about hiders in (the ongoing) waffle-mafia, and what do you know, Eevee the hider somehow died at night.

[Captain_Frisk]

Actually, now that I started thinking about it, are we doing RVS wrong? It seems to me we always end up pressuring the same guys (hi robz), and others (like myself) always skate through it completely unsuspected. I've always been town and maybe that somehow shows, but our terrible day1 lynch record begs to differ. I dont know, just a thought, maybe we should actively try to pressure the less confrontational guys more and cut the usual suspects some slack?

Vote: Eevee for his marvelous suggestion.

[Insomniac]

I'd really like to put an end to the we have a horrible day 1 record nonsense because it is in fact nonsense.

The fact of the matter is the day 1 lynch isn't about hitting scum it's great if you do sure, but the fact of the matter is the day 1 lynch is about information and as long as you get information from the lynch and night kill day 1 has done its job. Sure it sucks to be that townie getting lynched for information but guess what that is part of the game.

You can say we have a terrible day 1 record all you want, the fact of the matter is that on dominion strategy town and mafia have about the right records that they should have for playing mafia. (about 50/50 with TOWN having a slight edge)

[Watno]

Nice job deciphering.
Some tries: Neo, get us out of here
Clean Hufflepuff Common Room

[Jorbles]

Nice job deciphering.
Some tries: Neo, get us out of here
Clean Hufflepuff Common Room

Softclaim Hufflepuff?

[Galzria]

Actually, I have no issue with revealing that, otherwise I wouldn't have. Scum likely already guessed at the existence of such a character - if they didn't flat out know already - by virtue of the flavor. It's rather common that they have a better understanding of what's going on than town. By making that a public statement, all it does is level the playing field some for what the town knows. It doesn't help identify the person, but it gives the town solid footing to know that this flavor isn't a wild-goose hunt.

[shraeye]

Oh boy oh boy!
Vote:Frisk

For 3 reasons
1) Always scum
2) OMGUS
3) ZM3 requires Frisk die

Which variation on OMGUS is reason 2? Could you please specify, thanks.

Obviously the Majourity Genuinely think Your Scum

This Majourity of which you speak.  I wonder if I can trust them?

Actually, now that I started thinking about it, are we doing RVS wrong? It seems to me we always end up pressuring the same guys (hi robz), and others (like myself) always skate through it completely unsuspected. I've always been town and maybe that somehow shows, but our terrible day1 lynch record begs to differ. I dont know, just a thought, maybe we should actively try to pressure the less confrontational guys more and cut the usual suspects some slack?

Vote: Eevee for his marvelous suggestion.

Ah, yes.  Now I do trust the Majourity.
vote: Frisk
I don't understand your problem with eevee's suggestion.  Insom is right that day1 lynches are less about hitting scum and more about learning things.  But Eevee's suggestion to switch up our normal play isn't a terrible one, and it certainly didn't deserve a vote in my book.

[Captain_Frisk]

His suggestion is that we drive suspicion on someone new - like him!  I am voting for him because he asked us to!

[ashersky]

There is no spoon.

That's my try, anyway.  I like the matrixed Hogwarts idea.  Quidditch got a mention, maybe we can catch the golden snitch and win!

(Note: iPad autocorrect for snitch is hilariously bad.)

[eHalcyon]

Vote Count 1.1

ashersky (1): Robz888
Captain_Frisk (2): Insomniac, shraeye
Dsell (1): jotheonah
Eevee (1): Captain_Frisk
jotheonah (1): Dsell
Robz888 (2): ashersky, Galzria

Not voting (7): Archetype, cayvie, Eevee, ftl, Jorbles, Voltaire, Watno

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

Lynch deadline: Monday, October 8, 5:00pm MDT

[Galzria]

There is no Spoon...

But there are Cookies! *Gives everybody a cookie*

[jotheonah]

I have mod confirmation that there are spoons.

[eHalcyon]

The halls of Hogwarts were eerily quiet.  Has somebody cast a muffliato spell?

[ftl]

I blame Robz, he's been casting random spells. Vote: Robz

[Robz888]

I blame Robz, he's been casting random spells. Vote: Robz

Avada Kedavra: ftl

[shraeye]

I blame Robz, he's been casting random spells. Vote: Robz

Avada Kedavra: ftl

Yo Robz, you gotta chill on those unforgivable curses.  Remember, they're unforgivable.

[Robz888]

I blame Robz, he's been casting random spells. Vote: Robz

Avada Kedavra: ftl

Yo Robz, you gotta chill on those unforgivable curses.  Remember, they're unforgivable.

Forgive this. Crucio!: shraeye

[Galzria]

We'll make this simple then:

Protego Maxima!


Fianto Duri!


Repello Inimicum!

There. That should do against Robz casting random spells on everyone. Behind the Shields please.

Btw, more people should vote Robz. Unforgivable, illegal curses cannot be overlooked. If we can't lynch him, we should at least sentence him to detention with Umbrage. A few thousand copies of "I will not cast illegal curses" in his own blood should do the trick.

[Robz888]

Polyjuice Potion: Galzria

Now I've penetrated your defenses!

[Insomniac]

Polyjuice Potion: Galzria

Now I've penetrated your defenses!

Robz care to explain why you are doing this?

If It's a post restriction just quote this post and cast some spell. If your doing it because you hate us then do NOT quote this post but cast a spell on me.

[Galzria]

Polyjuice Potion: Galzria

Now I've penetrated your defenses!

Robz care to explain why you are doing this?

If It's a post restriction just quote this post and cast some spell. If your doing it because you hate us then do NOT quote this post but cast a spell on me.

There are no posting restrictions in this game as per eHal's opening post.

[Galzria]

Polyjuice Potion: Galzria

Now I've penetrated your defenses!

Polyjuice won't let you by. There was only one person who could crack those spells. Care to claim?

[cayvie]

what is going on

is this all fluff

[Galzria]

what is going on

is this all fluff

Yes. I've tried to steer the conversation away from fluff and random RVS crap - and we keep seeming to do well - and then Robz comes along casting spells everywhere.

So I'm answering fluff with fluff.

[Robz888]

I do not have a posting restriction. Just having a bit of fun with the Harry Potter theme.

Avada Kedavra: Fun

That's what you guys are doing.

[cayvie]

Eh, I've never done this before:

vote: Jorbles

[ftl]

*crickets*
Vote: crickets

Actually, back to Vote: Robz888 because why not

[Eevee]

i dont understand any of the votes i think robz is probably up to something, but see that something as likely town-aligned. Is this the kind of thing i should just let be because it benefits the town even though i dont understand it?

[Jorbles]

I think Robz is either honestly having fun, or up to something flavour related.

Eh, I've never done this before:

vote: Jorbles

Do you mean you've never voted for me before? That's true it's our first game together. Also OMGUSSSSSSSSSSS. vote: cayvie

[Jorbles]

I think Robz is either honestly having fun, or up to something flavour related.

I should clarify, flavour related, but town-aligned.

[shraeye]

i dont understand any of the votes i think robz is probably up to something, but see that something as likely town-aligned. Is this the kind of thing i should just let be because it benefits the town even though i dont understand it?

I'm sure the votes can be explained by RVS, Robz can be explained by desire to have fun, and your willingness to let things that confuse you and still be ok with them can be explained some other way.  I know that discussion is riveting here right now, which can probably be explained by Mafia XI's existence.  But for the sake of Archetype, Jorbles, and Robz who can't participate in that craziness we should probably also get slightly more active here.  Get some sillies out and then get serious. 

Here's some early serious questions.  Voltaire, watno, dsell, and frisk please whisper me your thoughts when you get a chance (I picked 4 low postcounters since start).  If there's a powerful town player, do you suspect there to be a powerful scum as well?  How many factions might there be?

[shraeye]

I think Robz is either honestly having fun, or up to something flavour related.

I should clarify, flavour related, but town-aligned.

I don't understand your and eevee's positions.  This seems like silliness, backed up by Robz saying he was having some fun with the HP theme.  Now it could be flavour related, that is possible.  But why automatically assume it is town-aligned?

[Robz888]

shraeye, stop drinking Veritaserum and leave some for everybody else.

[Jorbles]

i dont understand any of the votes i think robz is probably up to something, but see that something as likely town-aligned. Is this the kind of thing i should just let be because it benefits the town even though i dont understand it?

I'm sure the votes can be explained by RVS, Robz can be explained by desire to have fun, and your willingness to let things that confuse you and still be ok with them can be explained some other way.  I know that discussion is riveting here right now, which can probably be explained by Mafia XI's existence.  But for the sake of Archetype, Jorbles, and Robz who can't participate in that craziness we should probably also get slightly more active here.  Get some sillies out and then get serious. 

Here's some early serious questions.  Voltaire, watno, dsell, and frisk please whisper me your thoughts when you get a chance (I picked 4 low postcounters since start).  If there's a powerful town player, do you suspect there to be a powerful scum as well?  How many factions might there be?

Whoa, you have the ability to whisper? Also, did you deliberately just claim it there?

I think Robz is either honestly having fun, or up to something flavour related.

I should clarify, flavour related, but town-aligned.

I don't understand your and eevee's positions.  This seems like silliness, backed up by Robz saying he was having some fun with the HP theme.  Now it could be flavour related, that is possible.  But why automatically assume it is town-aligned?

Because he's doing it pseudo randomly in public. Meaning if there is any actual flavour benefits to it than he likely either doesn't know exactly what it does or he doesn't know who to target. If it's scum I doubt they'd want to show that ability to us unless they had to. Town seems more open to random testing of an ability in a manner that we might see the results. (On the other hand if he's just doing it for the fun of it he could be scum- or town-aligned.)

[Eevee]

I think Robz is either honestly having fun, or up to something flavour related.

I should clarify, flavour related, but town-aligned.

I don't understand your and eevee's positions.  This seems like silliness, backed up by Robz saying he was having some fun with the HP theme.  Now it could be flavour related, that is possible.  But why automatically assume it is town-aligned?

I can't speak for Jorbles (who btw posted the same exact thing I did just 2˝ hours earlier, what's up with that?), but I don't think scum generally breadcrumbs / boasts with their abilities / whatever the hell Robz is doing if that's not just a very weird way to amuse himself. Scum wants to keep their role a secret and is generally deceptive. Robz is (if that's not just him amusing himself) planning to do something in the open later.

Not bulletproof, but those are my reasons anyways.

[jotheonah]

I don't think Robz plays scum the way most people play scum.

[Robz888]

I don't think Robz plays scum the way most people play scum.

How do I play scum? How do most people play scum??

[Insomniac]

I don't think Robz plays scum the way most people play scum.

and how do most people play scum?

[Eevee]

I don't think Robz plays scum the way most people play scum.

Sure, but I'm trying to sew these small bits of information/read together to form the big picture. I certainly think "hum, that's something town usually does" is worth noting. Like the slight town read on Frisk for RVS'ing Ins, and the slight raise of the eyebrow at Jorbles for posting "content" I already posted. When I post about something little and call it a "read", it doesn't mean that's my full take on that person. Just to make this clear.

[Eevee]

I don't think Robz plays scum the way most people play scum.

and how do most people play scum?

I know this! By not doing anything, posting just enough to avoid suspicion and generally staying in the back as much as possible, being as uncontroversial as possible.

[Insomniac]

I don't think Robz plays scum the way most people play scum.

Sure, but I'm trying to sew these small bits of information/read together to form the big picture. I certainly think "hum, that's something town usually does" is worth noting. Like the slight town read on Frisk for RVS'ing Ins, and the slight raise of the eyebrow at Jorbles for posting "content" I already posted. When I post about something little and call it a "read", it doesn't mean that's my full take on that person. Just to make this clear.

You reading the same game as me? Frisk is voting for you right now.

[Eevee]

I don't think Robz plays scum the way most people play scum.

Sure, but I'm trying to sew these small bits of information/read together to form the big picture. I certainly think "hum, that's something town usually does" is worth noting. Like the slight town read on Frisk for RVS'ing Ins, and the slight raise of the eyebrow at Jorbles for posting "content" I already posted. When I post about something little and call it a "read", it doesn't mean that's my full take on that person. Just to make this clear.

You reading the same game as me? Frisk is voting for you right now.

Referring to earlier (page 7 to be exact): I mentioned it because it's a perfect example of what I was talking about: a "small read", a little thing I think is worth taking a note of.

Mild town read on Frisk, he must know by now that voting Ins pretty much always results in him voting back, and in my experience scum Frisk would want to avoid the attention rather than risk getting a bunch of RVS votes. Implies he doesn't care that much about being suspected, which always reads towny to me.

[Insomniac]

I don't think Robz plays scum the way most people play scum.

Sure, but I'm trying to sew these small bits of information/read together to form the big picture. I certainly think "hum, that's something town usually does" is worth noting. Like the slight town read on Frisk for RVS'ing Ins, and the slight raise of the eyebrow at Jorbles for posting "content" I already posted. When I post about something little and call it a "read", it doesn't mean that's my full take on that person. Just to make this clear.

You reading the same game as me? Frisk is voting for you right now.

Referring to earlier (page 7 to be exact): I mentioned it because it's a perfect example of what I was talking about: a "small read", a little thing I think is worth taking a note of.

Mild town read on Frisk, he must know by now that voting Ins pretty much always results in him voting back, and in my experience scum Frisk would want to avoid the attention rather than risk getting a bunch of RVS votes. Implies he doesn't care that much about being suspected, which always reads towny to me.

Also I don't always vote back, that is a falsehood of my meta, I do focus tend to become more focused on sussing out scumminess in past play and if its there I will vote for the person but I tend to not do OMGUS votes outside of RVS. Also its not voting for me, it's falsely calling me scummy.

On the other conversation though, about this.

I don't think Robz plays scum the way most people play scum.

and how do most people play scum?

I know this! By not doing anything, posting just enough to avoid suspicion and generally staying in the back as much as possible, being as uncontroversial as possible.

I think we disagree on what constitutes 'most' people.

[Jorbles]

I don't think Robz plays scum the way most people play scum.

Sure, but I'm trying to sew these small bits of information/read together to form the big picture. I certainly think "hum, that's something town usually does" is worth noting. Like the slight town read on Frisk for RVS'ing Ins, and the slight raise of the eyebrow at Jorbles for posting "content" I already posted. When I post about something little and call it a "read", it doesn't mean that's my full take on that person. Just to make this clear.

Eh, I'm just agreeing with you, not sheeping. We can keep discussing it if you want, but can we also get back to schraeye's request for people to whisper to him here?

i dont understand any of the votes i think robz is probably up to something, but see that something as likely town-aligned. Is this the kind of thing i should just let be because it benefits the town even though i dont understand it?

I'm sure the votes can be explained by RVS, Robz can be explained by desire to have fun, and your willingness to let things that confuse you and still be ok with them can be explained some other way.  I know that discussion is riveting here right now, which can probably be explained by Mafia XI's existence.  But for the sake of Archetype, Jorbles, and Robz who can't participate in that craziness we should probably also get slightly more active here.  Get some sillies out and then get serious. 

Here's some early serious questions.  Voltaire, watno, dsell, and frisk please whisper me your thoughts when you get a chance (I picked 4 low postcounters since start).  If there's a powerful town player, do you suspect there to be a powerful scum as well?  How many factions might there be?

Am I misunderstanding things or is whispering not allowed in this game? At least not in my role.

[Watno]

what is going on

is this all fluff

Yes. I've tried to steer the conversation away from fluff and random RVS crap - and we keep seeming to do well - and then Robz comes along casting spells everywhere.

So I'm answering fluff with fluff.

Where did you try to steer the conversation away from fluff and RVS? vote Galzria

@shraeye I think there is a powerful scum character, because this is Role Madness. Regarding factions, i have no idea, but it guess its town + mafia  (+maybe serial killer)

[shraeye]

I don't think Robz plays scum the way most people play scum.

Sure, but I'm trying to sew these small bits of information/read together to form the big picture. I certainly think "hum, that's something town usually does" is worth noting. Like the slight town read on Frisk for RVS'ing Ins, and the slight raise of the eyebrow at Jorbles for posting "content" I already posted. When I post about something little and call it a "read", it doesn't mean that's my full take on that person. Just to make this clear.

Eh, I'm just agreeing with you, not sheeping. We can keep discussing it if you want, but can we also get back to schraeye's request for people to whisper to him here?

i dont understand any of the votes i think robz is probably up to something, but see that something as likely town-aligned. Is this the kind of thing i should just let be because it benefits the town even though i dont understand it?

I'm sure the votes can be explained by RVS, Robz can be explained by desire to have fun, and your willingness to let things that confuse you and still be ok with them can be explained some other way.  I know that discussion is riveting here right now, which can probably be explained by Mafia XI's existence.  But for the sake of Archetype, Jorbles, and Robz who can't participate in that craziness we should probably also get slightly more active here.  Get some sillies out and then get serious. 

Here's some early serious questions.  Voltaire, watno, dsell, and frisk please whisper me your thoughts when you get a chance (I picked 4 low postcounters since start).  If there's a powerful town player, do you suspect there to be a powerful scum as well?  How many factions might there be?

Am I misunderstanding things or is whispering not allowed in this game? At least not in my role.

Um, I feel misunderstood here.  I just meant that I'd love to hear from them, but don't demand super vocal/decisive stances on the issues, since we're still in the RVS/transition out of RVS stage.  I don't have a power that lets players PM me, or me PM players.  *(uses quiet voice) I think your interpretation of whisper was off the mark.*

To clarify, I don't think this feels role-fishy, just an honest reaction to an honest misinterpretation.

[jotheonah]

I don't think Robz plays scum the way most people play scum.

How do I play scum? How do most people play scum??

You seem to be willing to take big risks purely to avoid standard scum play. Even on Day 1. High risk, high reward. But it just means that I'm going to be less swayed by "Scum would never..." arguments when they're applied to you.

[shraeye]

Where did you try to steer the conversation away from fluff and RVS? vote Galzria

He's one of the first players to jump on the numbers in the posts. Then he did make some jokes, but everyone is allowed to do that at first.  He talks about flavour affecting the game in #174, then admits to knowledge of "neo" in #184.  There is definitely content to his posts, whether or not one thinks that was a good move for town or not.  (I think it's a risky move, but still benefits town more--to quote Galz "It's rather common that they have a better understanding of what's going on than town. By making that a public statement, all it does is level the playing field some for what the town knows.")

[Insomniac]

Where did you try to steer the conversation away from fluff and RVS? vote Galzria

He's one of the first players to jump on the numbers in the posts. Then he did make some jokes, but everyone is allowed to do that at first.  He talks about flavour affecting the game in #174, then admits to knowledge of "neo" in #184.  There is definitely content to his posts, whether or not one thinks that was a good move for town or not.  (I think it's a risky move, but still benefits town more--to quote Galz "It's rather common that they have a better understanding of what's going on than town. By making that a public statement, all it does is level the playing field some for what the town knows.")

He doesn't admit knowledge of neo. He admits to knowing that there is a townie that should be protected.

[shraeye]

You're right, he doesn't say that he knows "neo" exists; but I was referring simply to the above-average-powerful towny that he talks about.

Actually, I do know that there is an above average powerful town player in this game (don't know who though), and that it will very much be in the Towns interest to protect them. So "Neo is the one." Fits that well. My point is, we should tread carefully, and pay very close attention to the flavor - even now.

[Watno]

Where did you try to steer the conversation away from fluff and RVS? vote Galzria

He's one of the first players to jump on the numbers in the posts. Then he did make some jokes, but everyone is allowed to do that at first.  He talks about flavour affecting the game in #174, then admits to knowledge of "neo" in #184.  There is definitely content to his posts, whether or not one thinks that was a good move for town or not.  (I think it's a risky move, but still benefits town more--to quote Galz "It's rather common that they have a better understanding of what's going on than town. By making that a public statement, all it does is level the playing field some for what the town knows.")

I read his posts, thank you. However, the things you pointed out are talking about fluff

[Eevee]

Yeah that whispering business is weird. If it's a soft claim, will pushing it help is? (If shraeye is town, he isn't going to reveal his role (probably) and we'll just force a townie to lie.) I (once again..) missed it the first time around, thought it was just a weird choice of words or an idiom or something. Idk, for the record this doesn't read towny to me like Robz's weird business, but to be fair shraeye always seems suspicious and weird to me.

[Galzria]

Where did you try to steer the conversation away from fluff and RVS? vote Galzria

He's one of the first players to jump on the numbers in the posts. Then he did make some jokes, but everyone is allowed to do that at first.  He talks about flavour affecting the game in #174, then admits to knowledge of "neo" in #184.  There is definitely content to his posts, whether or not one thinks that was a good move for town or not.  (I think it's a risky move, but still benefits town more--to quote Galz "It's rather common that they have a better understanding of what's going on than town. By making that a public statement, all it does is level the playing field some for what the town knows.")

I read his posts, thank you. However, the things you pointed out are talking about fluff

I think you should look up the definition of fluff as it relates to Mafia. Otherwise you're just talking out of your ass here.

[Insomniac]

Ok wanted to find out whos lurking so I can vote them, so here is a post count for those who care (I added one to my count to account for this post)

Ins/Confirms/When discussion is left out

Archetype - 5
Ashersky - 4
Captain_Frisk - 4
cayvie - 6
DSell - 2
Eevee - 11
ftl - 9
Galzria - 16
Insomniac - 13
Jorbles - 10
Jotheonah - 11
Robz - 10
Shraeye - 16
Voltaire - 0
Watno - 3

VOTE: VOLTAIRE

[Robz888]

Vote: Voltaire

Lynch all lurkers.

[Watno]

To me, fluff = flavor. Feel free to tell me otherwise, wiki.mafiascum doesn't say anything.

[Eevee]

Voltaire said elsewhere "I haven't even had time to start reading RMM3 yet". I guess he wasn't lying.

I'll be different and Vote: Dsell, having two posts is scummier than having 0 posts imo.

[Galzria]

Vote: Voltaire

Lynch all lurkers.

Seriously? 0 posts from him? I'll absolutely Vote: Voltaire. However I still think Robz should be hung by his toes for two weeks in the dungeon (without food of course) for the use of illegal curses.

[Insomniac]

Also passing thought! eHal made this game, eHal always suggests no lynch in Role madness games to give the powers a night to work...does that make it a thing here...

[Eevee]

Also passing thought! eHal made this game, eHal always suggests no lynch in Role madness games to give the powers a night to work...does that make it a thing here...

Your buddy got up to too many votes I take it?

@Galzria
At least Robz has a motivation to hunt for the dementors before they come and take him to Azkaban.

[Insomniac]

Also passing thought! eHal made this game, eHal always suggests no lynch in Role madness games to give the powers a night to work...does that make it a thing here...

Your buddy got up to too many votes I take it?

@Galzria
At least Robz has a motivation to hunt for the dementors before they come and take him to Azkaban.

Yea I mean Voltaire hit 3 like nothing! and rather than unvote I thought I'd suggest some no lynch 

[Galzria]

Also passing thought! eHal made this game, eHal always suggests no lynch in Role madness games to give the powers a night to work...does that make it a thing here...

Your buddy got up to too many votes I take it?

@Galzria
At least Robz has a motivation to hunt for the dementors before they come and take him to Azkaban.

Robz has no soul. The number of games he's been Mafia in proves this. Thus the Dementors won't want him anyway.

Jokes aside, Insomniac is completely right that some people need to start posting. This game has been moving slowly since the launch, and we've already generated concrete topics to debate that will likely have a large impact on the game. It would be nice to get some more voices in here.

[cayvie]

Also passing thought! eHal made this game, eHal always suggests no lynch in Role madness games to give the powers a night to work...does that make it a thing here...

you know, that's a legit point. maybe?

[Eevee]

Also passing thought! eHal made this game, eHal always suggests no lynch in Role madness games to give the powers a night to work...does that make it a thing here...

Your buddy got up to too many votes I take it?

@Galzria
At least Robz has a motivation to hunt for the dementors before they come and take him to Azkaban.

Yea I mean Voltaire hit 3 like nothing! and rather than unvote I thought I'd suggest some no lynch 

It was one of my better one-liners though, right?

@nolynch debacle
How do we determine if it's a good idea? I'm slightly opposed to it, but mostly due to conventional "nolynch is bad" mafia wisdom.

[Dsell]

Voltaire said elsewhere "I haven't even had time to start reading RMM3 yet". I guess he wasn't lying.

I'll be different and Vote: Dsell, having two posts is scummier than having 0 posts imo.

Yeah, when it was all Harry Potter fluff I just bowed out...I've seen the movies but I don't know enough about the specifics to really participate in the banter. So I'm glad we've moved past that.

I am guessing that since it's role madness, both town and scum will have powers of varying strengths. I'm sure it's balanced though, so if we have a superpower townie, scum probably has some really good roles too.

Shraeye asked about whether we have a superpower townie, well it sounds like there is a townie we need to protect, though that's not the same. Neo could be a superpower, but we don't know for sure. Neo is the one, Harry Potter is the boy who lived, Luke Skywalker is our only hope...it's flavor and it's important but that one bit of flavor doesn't necessarily mean what we think it does.

[Jorbles]

Neo could be a superpower or Neo could be the equivalent of some variant on a Beloved Princess, or even some combination of the two. We don't know, but I am of the opinion that we should do our best to protect that player.

[cayvie]

Neo could be a superpower or Neo could be the equivalent of some variant on a Beloved Princess, or even some combination of the two. We don't know, but I am of the opinion that we should do our best to protect that player.

good plan

protect: neo

[Dsell]

Neo could be a superpower or Neo could be the equivalent of some variant on a Beloved Princess, or even some combination of the two. We don't know, but I am of the opinion that we should do our best to protect that player.

I agree.

[shraeye]

@watno In a game called "Read the Freaking Flavour" I'm not sure flavor=fluff holds

Voltaire said elsewhere "I haven't even had time to start reading RMM3 yet". I guess he wasn't lying.

I'll be different and Vote: Dsell, having two posts is scummier than having 0 posts imo.

Yeah, when it was all Harry Potter fluff I just bowed out...I've seen the movies but I don't know enough about the specifics to really participate in the banter. So I'm glad we've moved past that.

I am guessing that since it's role madness, both town and scum will have powers of varying strengths. I'm sure it's balanced though, so if we have a superpower townie, scum probably has some really good roles too.

Shraeye asked about whether we have a superpower townie, well it sounds like there is a townie we need to protect, though that's not the same. Neo could be a superpower, but we don't know for sure. Neo is the one, Harry Potter is the boy who lived, Luke Skywalker is our only hope...it's flavor and it's important but that one bit of flavor doesn't necessarily mean what we think it does.

Did I miss the Star Wars flavor part??

[Dsell]

@watno In a game called "Read the Freaking Flavour" I'm not sure flavor=fluff holds

Voltaire said elsewhere "I haven't even had time to start reading RMM3 yet". I guess he wasn't lying.

I'll be different and Vote: Dsell, having two posts is scummier than having 0 posts imo.

Yeah, when it was all Harry Potter fluff I just bowed out...I've seen the movies but I don't know enough about the specifics to really participate in the banter. So I'm glad we've moved past that.

I am guessing that since it's role madness, both town and scum will have powers of varying strengths. I'm sure it's balanced though, so if we have a superpower townie, scum probably has some really good roles too.

Shraeye asked about whether we have a superpower townie, well it sounds like there is a townie we need to protect, though that's not the same. Neo could be a superpower, but we don't know for sure. Neo is the one, Harry Potter is the boy who lived, Luke Skywalker is our only hope...it's flavor and it's important but that one bit of flavor doesn't necessarily mean what we think it does.

Did I miss the Star Wars flavor part??

No, I wasn't referencing specific flavor, I just meant that just because Neo is "The One" doesn't mean that he's the all-important character in this game of mafia. Or even that he's IN this game of mafia, though that seems more likely. I'm just saying that tomorrow he could come out and say "Luke Skywalker is our only hope" within the flavor and then maybe he's the person this or that is referring to.

It seems to me like the people who are saying this is a matrix-y version of Hogwarts may be on to something, based on the flavor. It's possible there's even more to it than that.

[Eevee]

Unvote, hello Dsell.
Vote: ashersky

[shraeye]

Ugh, I want to put a frustration-vote on either watno for saying "I read his posts, thank you. However, the things you pointed out are talking about fluff" and "To me, fluff = flavor. Feel free to tell me otherwise, wiki.mafiascum doesn't say anything."

or insomniac for saying "He doesn't admit knowledge of neo. He admits to knowing that there is a townie that should be protected." when I was only trying to reference the above-average-powerful-town-player with the shorthand neo, since Galz already said that "Neo is the one" fits that knowledge well. (in #184)

I'm going to breathe for a moment, remember that my vote is currently on Frisk for making a snappy vote on Eevee (after which he has pretty much disappeared), and realize that I'm happy keeping it there.  The sarcasm I totally missed the first time around, but to show up, be silly and leave is more of a problem than to simply be too busy to start up at all (like Voltaire).  I want both of them to start saying things!

Ugh, my mind was not ready for the transition from serious-thought 25 person mafia, to the silly RVS-beginnings of a new game.

[cayvie]

Yeah, okay

that's better than anything I've got

vote: Captain_Frisk

[Robz888]

Ugh, my mind was not ready for the transition from serious-thought 25 person mafia, to the silly RVS-beginnings of a new game.

Perhaps you need to clear your head a bit. Obliviate!: shraeye

[Insomniac]

Ugh, I want to put a frustration-vote on either watno for saying "I read his posts, thank you. However, the things you pointed out are talking about fluff" and "To me, fluff = flavor. Feel free to tell me otherwise, wiki.mafiascum doesn't say anything."

or insomniac for saying "He doesn't admit knowledge of neo. He admits to knowing that there is a townie that should be protected." when I was only trying to reference the above-average-powerful-town-player with the shorthand neo, since Galz already said that "Neo is the one" fits that knowledge well. (in #184)

I'm going to breathe for a moment, remember that my vote is currently on Frisk for making a snappy vote on Eevee (after which he has pretty much disappeared), and realize that I'm happy keeping it there.  The sarcasm I totally missed the first time around, but to show up, be silly and leave is more of a problem than to simply be too busy to start up at all (like Voltaire).  I want both of them to start saying things!

Ugh, my mind was not ready for the transition from serious-thought 25 person mafia, to the silly RVS-beginnings of a new game.

My vote on Voltaire is NOT RVS.

Galz talked about knowing someone with strong powers who it would be in towns best interest to protect. he said that neo could be that person not that neo is that person, we do not know if neO is in the game, if he is in the game we don't know if he's town, furthermore if he is in the game we don't know if he is super powered. Deliberately referring to the person as neo is a good way to give misinformation to the town turning the information that galz decided to share into faulty information by equating the two perhaps causing townies to forget the real information.

all that to say heavy FoS to shraeye, for ambiguously combining neo and galz's information and then wanting to vote me for mentioning the ambiguity.



Flavour aside does anyone think that we might get flavour during the night in the form of "dreams"?

[ashersky]

Yeah that whispering business is weird. If it's a soft claim, will pushing it help is? (If shraeye is town, he isn't going to reveal his role (probably) and we'll just force a townie to lie.) I (once again..) missed it the first time around, thought it was just a weird choice of words or an idiom or something. Idk, for the record this doesn't read towny to me like Robz's weird business, but to be fair shraeye always seems suspicious and weird to me.

Vote: Eevee.  Points out pushing it is anti-town while asking if we should push it.  As he clearly realized it's anti-town, he probably shouldn't have brought it up.  Also, slight OMGUS.

There was a bit of Eevee scramble a few pages back, too:

I don't think Robz plays scum the way most people play scum.

Sure, but I'm trying to sew these small bits of information/read together to form the big picture. I certainly think "hum, that's something town usually does" is worth noting. Like the slight town read on Frisk for RVS'ing Ins, and the slight raise of the eyebrow at Jorbles for posting "content" I already posted. When I post about something little and call it a "read", it doesn't mean that's my full take on that person. Just to make this clear.

Eevee is generally a calm, collected player.  This seemed a bit too clumsy for him.  He's not one to have to "make this clear" often.  Also, a bit of OMGUS.

I think the numbers/Neo thing is important, and at least one of us knows why, but it isn't me.  In fact, I think numbers will play a larger role in this game than we even are thinking at the moment.  That's the vibe I get from that flavor in the opening post.

I will add to the town reads on Robz for now, but man, I can't trust that guy.  I don't think the random HP spells are anything more than silliness, though.

PPE:  Anyone have any white rabbits?  That was a big Matrix breadcrumb to follow.

[jotheonah]

I'm all for Vote: Voltaire. Let's actually lynch a lurker for once instead of just talking about it.

[Jorbles]

I'm all for Vote: Voltaire. Let's actually lynch a lurker for once instead of just talking about it.

I'm on board for this, but later in d1. Maybe on Friday. I think at the moment the pressure the 4 of you are providing is more than enough. Let's not rush into n1 when we don't have to.

[Eevee]

ashersky, I appreciate the post! It's a real case and everything, if a little OMGUS'y. Certainly counts as participation, so Unvote. Vote: archetype next, my vote seems to bring people back from the land of lurk.

I think your'd deserve a rebuttal, I just don't know what to write in one.. expect that I'm town? I don't know about composed and calm, you "met" me in my brightest mafia moment ever. I usually.. don't do as well as I did in mafia X. The reason I wanted to "make it clear" was that it seemed people misunderstood what I meant when I said "xxx reads zzz to me", universally in mafia games it's not my complete view on that person, just a small note of something that caught my eye.

Hmm, Jot's position in the V wagon looks quite scummy when combined with that reason for voting. Sure you don't want the V lynch to go through before he even gets here? That's where I'd expect scum to park their vote in if V was town and they wanted to push his lynch and blame it on his lurking tomorrow. That's obviously assuming that V is town or at least not mafia and that a big chunk of Joth's team isn't on the wagon already.. too many if's without a flip I guess, ugh day 1.

[cayvie]

while i'm certainly not against lynching lurkers, i kinda think totally absent players should be replaced first

[Eevee]

while i'm certainly not against lynching lurkers, i kinda think totally absent players should be replaced first

agreed.

[ashersky]

Unvote.

Good response from E, and an even better point on the V wagon.  FoS at all those that joined the wagon so far.  It is one thing to have a prod vote, but driving to lynch so soon seems scummy.  To wit:

I'm all for Vote: Voltaire. Let's actually lynch a lurker for once instead of just talking about it.

I'm on board for this, but later in d1. Maybe on Friday. I think at the moment the pressure the 4 of you are providing is more than enough. Let's not rush into n1 when we don't have to.

Joth vote : Jorbles response :: scummy : townie

[Jorbles]

...

Hmm, Jot's position in the V wagon looks quite scummy when combined with that reason for voting. Sure you don't want the V lynch to go through before he even gets here? That's where I'd expect scum to park their vote in if V was town and they wanted to push his lynch and blame it on his lurking tomorrow. That's obviously assuming that V is town or at least not mafia and that a big chunk of Joth's team isn't on the wagon already.. too many if's without a flip I guess, ugh day 1.

I don't know how much we can count on there being a single scum team. eHalc said in his initial post that "0/4 Dementors have been defeated". Even if we think we're in the Matrix doesn't a 4 Person scum team seem large in a 15 person game? It seems more likely that scum will be in either a 3/1 breakdown with a SK and a scum team or in a 2/2 breakdown, with two scum teams. The reason I point this out is that you seem to be assuming that if Joth is scum he would know who all the other scum are, but I don't actually think that's likely. If we go through N1 with only a single death I will be shocked.

That said parking a vote on Voltaire does seem a little scummy because it's so easily justifiable, but looking at the voters the meta supports it. To the best of my memory they're all people who have repeatedly expressed frustration with our permissiveness w.r.t. bad town play, such as lurking. You are right in that it seems like a safe scum play, in fact it's exactly how I started my play in MX (as scum) voting for the lurkers like you are Eevee *raises eyebrows*. I don't think we can read too much into it yet, though. As it stands I don't have a strong enough read on anyone to lynch, but if Voltaire doesn't turn up, or turns up and then immediately disappears again I would support this lynch.

[Robz888]

Expecto Patronum!: Jorbles

If he's a Dementor, that should get him.

[Galzria]

Unvote.

Good response from E, and an even better point on the V wagon.  FoS at all those that joined the wagon so far.  It is one thing to have a prod vote, but driving to lynch so soon seems scummy.  To wit:

I'm all for Vote: Voltaire. Let's actually lynch a lurker for once instead of just talking about it.

I'm on board for this, but later in d1. Maybe on Friday. I think at the moment the pressure the 4 of you are providing is more than enough. Let's not rush into n1 when we don't have to.

Joth vote : Jorbles response :: scummy : townie

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. Him getting 4 votes for pressure to get him in here and participating is not "rushing to a lynch". I absolutely stand by my vote and find it incredibly suspicious that people would unvote without having received a response from V himself.

I personally get a very town vibe from Joth, and an anti-town vibe from those opposed to pressuring V into joining in the game.

[Eevee]

My votes are to prod people to get here, seems to work. Shouldn't maybe tell it's just a prod though, shoot.

I don't think one 4 man scum team in a 15 player town is very unreasonable at all, but obviously it's possible we are dealing with something else.

[Eevee]

@Galzria
I doubt V is even reading yet, it's not like votes help if that's the case. I think someone with 0 posts is vastly different than someone who obviously reads but just doesn't contribute.

.. that being said, obviously I want him to get here and talk. I always freak out when someone starts gaining votes fast, even if it's L-gazillion. Maybe this amount of pressure is appropriate so that V realizes he needs to get busy when he actually gets here and reads all this.

[ashersky]

I disagree that multiple votes are actually pressuring V any more than one vote and lots of finger-pointing.  I mean, if he's not here reading, the number of votes don't matter.  And V is the type of player that (so far anyway) will post when he gets here and sees one/two/ten votes on him, anyway.  Trying to build up the wagon to lynching stage without cause is scummy, unless you have some info/read other than "woo-hoo let's lynch the dude that hasn't had a chance to chime in because pbbt."

Halfway to lynch this early on a zero-read is ridiculous.  There's been plenty of chatter in here to base votes/reads on that we do not have to beat up on V.

Now, he could exhibit scumminess when he arrives, and then it's a different story.  But I can already see the "V has a few votes look at him scramble, that's so scummy" posts coming, and the original wagon formed for what?  To put him in an uncomfortable position so he has to squirm?

If he flips town, I don't want to be the fellow townie that put him in that position.  Do you?

[Galzria]

@Galzria
I doubt V is even reading yet, it's not like votes help if that's the case. I think someone with 0 posts is vastly different than someone who obviously reads but just doesn't contribute.

.. that being said, obviously I want him to get here and talk. I always freak out when someone starts gaining votes fast, even if it's L-gazillion. Maybe this amount of pressure is appropriate so that V realizes he needs to get busy when he actually gets here and reads all this.

To your second point: Yes, you do. You make it incredibly difficult at times for town to actually get a wagon going on someone because the moment it happens you start flipping out and getting all nervous. It's not necessarily bad, but you should try to temper it with the recognition that wagons are NOT inherently bad. Look over my stats. I'm on a TON of lynches, and while I hit more than my share of town in the process, my overall percentage of correct lynches isn't actually that bad.

No, not all wagons are good. But many are far from bad. However, an actual lynch of V here would indeed likely be bad. I won't argue that. I don't want lurkers lynched. I want lurkers to not lurk. I want the people who sign up to be active and participate.

[Eevee]

Well, don't you have the saying "the first step in fixing a problem is recognizing that there's a problem to be fixed"? I don't think I give guys who post long and often a pass as much as I used to, so maybe I'll start working on this next. 

[Insomniac]

Also to those worried about the V situation, it's not like he hasn't been on the forums he just hasn't been here, yea he's in MXI but so are a lot of people in this game.

[ftl]

This game is so much smaller and more manageable! I can be away and only miss like a page!

Re: robz's things - I suspect it's either random fun, or it's scum-aligned. I could see Robz having one particular spell to use that actually works (like my 1-shot dayvig in MIX), and posting lots of random spells that are just flavor nonsense to cover for the one that actually does something. So if something random happens during the day and it looks like it might be from one of those spells, don't let him off the hook. If he were town and were experimenting, he'd be far more careful.

Shraeye, breadcrumbs need to be more subtle than that, if that's what it was.

Robz has played scum before by lurking and being in the background, in BMV and MIX. But he's experienced and he could play a more active scum if he wanted, such as if f.ds meta was shifting towards lynching lurkers more so than active people. So no town read from him here.

Jorbles' rolefishing about the whispering might be scummy.

Watno, in a game titled "READ THE FREAKING FLAVOR", deciphering flavor is not fluff. Fluff is stuff that's irrelevant to the game and just takes up space. While in many games, flavor is fluff, it's probably not in this game.

No lynch is viable in a RMM game, I think.

Voltaire needs to get in here. Ins/Voltaire scumteam possible, as suggested by eevee

Vote: jotheonah for wanting a d1 quicklynch

[Voltgloss]

[cayvie]

i suspect ftl and insomniac are scumbuddies.

vote: ftl

[cayvie]

it's mostly ftl's latest post that reads that way to me.

he's all "vote jo for wanting a d1 quicklynch" when

1) jo has done nothing of the sort

and

2) insomniac has been pushing the voltaire thing much harder

oh, and he calls out insomniac without actually voting for him--reads as distancing to me.

[Archetype]

Finally online. Thanks for the prod/vote Eevee.

My thoughts:

shraeye:  Seems a little scummy. But then again, he always does
cayvie: Have a god town read on her.
Robz: His spellcaster is strange. But I suspect he's just having fun. But Robzs strategy as Mafia in Blitz mafia was to do an act no scum would do.
Jorbles: First game with him. Seems very town.
jotheonah: His mod confirmation thing seems strange, but he seems town.
Insomniac: I dont agree with lurker lynching. Some people are V/LA, and others base there playstyle around not talking. His arguments with others do sem pro town though.
Voltaire: No post, no read. Get in here!
Eevee: Seems slightly scummy this game with trying to lynch lurkers.
ftl: slightly scummy. Need to get a better read.

I dont have a good enough read on anyone else, bjt I agree a lot with what Galz is saying.

The Dementors business scares me, and makes me think there are 4 Mafia. Maybe 2 factions. Probably a serial killer too.

[Captain_Frisk]

All right, time to catch up on game 2.

[Captain_Frisk]

So refreshing to have a busy day with work and only have 2 pages to go through.

i suspect ftl and insomniac are scumbuddies.

vote: ftl

Would you care to enlighten the slower members of the group here?  Are you still RVS, or is this something real?

[Galzria]

So refreshing to have a busy day with work and only have 2 pages to go through.

i suspect ftl and insomniac are scumbuddies.

vote: ftl

Would you care to enlighten the slower members of the group here?  Are you still RVS, or is this something real?

Her very next post?

it's mostly ftl's latest post that reads that way to me.

he's all "vote jo for wanting a d1 quicklynch" when

1) jo has done nothing of the sort

and

2) insomniac has been pushing the voltaire thing much harder

oh, and he calls out insomniac without actually voting for him--reads as distancing to me.

[ftl]

BTW, arch, Joth's modconfirmation thing seemed like a joke to me. Joth, plz confirm?

[jotheonah]

Oh yeah, totally just a joke. Not very funny.

Sorry I've been sort of absent today. Trying to get work done + season premieres night.

[shraeye]

I disagree that multiple votes are actually pressuring V any more than one vote and lots of finger-pointing.  I mean, if he's not here reading, the number of votes don't matter.  And V is the type of player that (so far anyway) will post when he gets here and sees one/two/ten votes on him, anyway.  Trying to build up the wagon to lynching stage without cause is scummy, unless you have some info/read other than "woo-hoo let's lynch the dude that hasn't had a chance to chime in because pbbt."

Halfway to lynch this early on a zero-read is ridiculous.  There's been plenty of chatter in here to base votes/reads on that we do not have to beat up on V.

Now, he could exhibit scumminess when he arrives, and then it's a different story.  But I can already see the "V has a few votes look at him scramble, that's so scummy" posts coming, and the original wagon formed for what?  To put him in an uncomfortable position so he has to squirm?

asher is right. zooming halfway to lynch when we're only 2 RL-days into the game and voltaire hasn't actually started in yet is pretty silly.  At the beginning, we should think first to replace someone who isn't showing up.  I suppose he should be mod-prodded soon? (I love the rhyming of taht phrase).  Especially because from what I know of voltaire, he'll definitely be posting once he's here, regardless of if there's a stray vote, no vote, or 4 votes.

[Robz888]

I think we need to shed some light on this subject.

Lumos!: Subject

[shraeye]

it's mostly ftl's latest post that reads that way to me.

he's all "vote jo for wanting a d1 quicklynch" when

1) jo has done nothing of the sort

and

2) insomniac has been pushing the voltaire thing much harder

oh, and he calls out insomniac without actually voting for him--reads as distancing to me.

Wait, cayvie, didn't joth say he wanted to "lynch a lurker for once" in #265.  I'm pretty sure this is what ftl is responding to.

[cayvie]

it's mostly ftl's latest post that reads that way to me.

he's all "vote jo for wanting a d1 quicklynch" when

1) jo has done nothing of the sort

and

2) insomniac has been pushing the voltaire thing much harder

oh, and he calls out insomniac without actually voting for him--reads as distancing to me.

Wait, cayvie, didn't joth say he wanted to "lynch a lurker for once" in #265.  I'm pretty sure this is what ftl is responding to.

that is not the same as a quicklynch.

not at all.

[shraeye]

it's mostly ftl's latest post that reads that way to me.

he's all "vote jo for wanting a d1 quicklynch" when

1) jo has done nothing of the sort

and

2) insomniac has been pushing the voltaire thing much harder

oh, and he calls out insomniac without actually voting for him--reads as distancing to me.

Wait, cayvie, didn't joth say he wanted to "lynch a lurker for once" in #265.  I'm pretty sure this is what ftl is responding to.

that is not the same as a quicklynch.

not at all.

ok, clearly the word quicklynch means something specific to you that I currently don't understand.  I'm going to sleep now, but I'll look for an explanation in the morning if you haven't already given it.

[eHalcyon]

Vote Count 1.2

Archetype (1): Eevee
Captain_Frisk (1): shraeye
cayvie (1): Jorbles
Eevee (1): Captain_Frisk
ftl (1): cayvie
Galzria (1): Watno
jotheonah (2): Dsell, ftl
Voltaire (4): Insomniac, Robz888, Galzria, jotheonah

Not voting (3): Archetype, ashersky, Voltaire

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

Lynch deadline: Monday, October 8, 5:00pm MDT




Let me know if a prod is needed...

[cayvie]

I always thought a quicklynch was when you try to lynch someone particularly quickly, with the purpose of cutting off conversation.

Like if two scum see someone at L-2 and place two votes real fast.

[ftl]

Yeah, that's the meaning I meant, sort of. Voltaire got to a few votes and joth was like "OK let's lynch him now! Vote".

[jotheonah]

Yeah, that's the meaning I meant, sort of. Voltaire got to a few votes and joth was like "OK let's lynch him now! Vote".

Which would have been scummy were Voltaire remotely close to being lynched.

[Dsell]

Unvote because my vote was completely RVS.

I really don't have a lot to say though at this point.

[cayvie]

Yeah, that's the meaning I meant, sort of. Voltaire got to a few votes and joth was like "OK let's lynch him now! Vote".

That's a really ambitious interpretation of what he said, in my opinion.

I really don't see how

I'm all for Vote: Voltaire. Let's actually lynch a lurker for once instead of just talking about it.

means what you say it does. I just don't read that as pushing for any kind of quicklynch.

[Eevee]

@archetype
I really think you mischaracterized my play there. If you think 'going hard after lurkers' is scummy, surely you suspect joth or Ins more? I don't think disagreeing with someone is a good basis for a vote, but I'll keep mine on you anyways until you give us content I like. :

@ftl
I fell for that line of thinking too, but in reality V is still pretty far from actually getting lynched.

[Archetype]

@archetype
I really think you mischaracterized my play there. If you think 'going hard after lurkers' is scummy, surely you suspect joth or Ins more? I don't think disagreeing with someone is a good basis for a vote, but I'll keep mine on you anyways until you give us content I like. :

@ftl
I fell for that line of thinking too, but in reality V is still pretty far from actually getting lynched.

Thanks for the answer Eevee. You are definitally not as scummy to me.

[ashersky]

So, my reads so far:

joth, cayvie are the scummiest so far, especially joth for his opening rolefishing salvo pre-RVS.  He jumped right in with "wonder how we clean the rooms...that's weird" which I find scummy.  Cayvie's breakdown of the numbers pointing to scum has looking at her.

Town reads on Arch, Dsell, and Eevee so far.

Neutral on ftl, Frisk and Galz.  Nothing on the rest.

Vote: joth.  Not RVS.

[Watno]

I'll be different and Vote: Dsell, having two posts is scummier than having 0 posts imo.

I don't agree. At the point you posted, nothing much had happened, so there was nothing really to talk about.

Jokes aside, Insomniac is completely right that some people need to start posting. This game has been moving slowly
 since the launch, and we've already generated concrete topics to debate that will likely have a large impact on the game. It would be nice to get some more voices in here.

Like what? I don't think what you said about the townie-to-be-protected is useless, but i don't see how it's something we should discuss, because that would only lead to rolefishing.

I don't think it's a good idea to nolynch.

I think its unlikely that if dementors=scum they are in different teams.

I don't see how joth is pushing for a quicklynch

[Eevee]

I'll be different and Vote: Dsell, having two posts is scummier than having 0 posts imo.

I don't agree. At the point you posted, nothing much had happened, so there was nothing really to talk about.

There never will be anything to talk about unless people come in and give us something.

[Jorbles]

So, my reads so far:

joth, cayvie are the scummiest so far, especially joth for his opening rolefishing salvo pre-RVS.  He jumped right in with "wonder how we clean the rooms...that's weird" which I find scummy.  Cayvie's breakdown of the numbers pointing to scum has looking at her.

Can you elaborate on what you mean by "Cayvie's breakdown of the numbers pointing to scum has looking at her." I ask because I got a slightly scummy vibe off of cayvie earlier (I'll expand on why after your explanation, don't want to put words in your mouth.) I am currently voting for her, but it's due to a vote from RVS. I am content to leave it there for now because I am slightly suspicious of her.

@Archetype and Eevee
If I remember ZM2 correctly Archetype was V/LA/lurking for most of the game and then NKed. I think his defense of lurkers might be a reflection of his own feeling defensive about lurking himself. @Archetype I don't think you are lurking scummily, because you do post useful content when you turn up. So far Voltaire has not done that, or done anything at all for that matter. Is it time yet for a prod? I'd like to be going through the initial motions for a replacement at this point.

[ashersky]

Can you elaborate on what you mean by "Cayvie's breakdown of the numbers pointing to scum has looking at her." I ask because I got a slightly scummy vibe off of cayvie earlier (I'll expand on why after your explanation, don't want to put words in your mouth.) I am currently voting for her, but it's due to a vote from RVS. I am content to leave it there for now because I am slightly suspicious of her.

This is the post I mean:

4e
65
6f
20
69
73
20
-74-
68
65
20
6f
6e
65
2e

guys! if these numbers are codes for the players' alignments, then surely the scum are the three 20s. let's see who they line up with in the player list!

4, 7, and 11.

cayvie, ftl, jotheonah

found our scum, guys.

wait

I added the bold.  Knowledge of the number of mafia?  That's not in the set-up (I just checked again).  Actually, scumslip?  Bad enough for me to Vote: Cayvie.

[Insomniac]

I don't see why people think I'm scummy, I posted post counts and voted for Voltaire who hasn't participated at all this game, people joined me and I support that too, Voltaire has been around, he has been EPIC lurking this game he should probably be prodded as well

eHal can you prod Voltaire? Thanks!

[Eevee]

I thought the number of scum was given when eHalc said 0/4 dementors killed, so the possible scumslip from cayvie is weird stuff indeed. I'm very interested in hearing her response, don't really have an opinion on it yet.

@Jorbles
My vote isn't on archetype because he has done anything scummy. It's there because I generally believe in voting, and because archetype's participation didn't really give me a town read either. It doesn't mean I think "HE HAS LITTLE POST HE NEEDS TO BE KILLED ASAP" by any means.

I think Voltaire should probably be replaced. If this is him legitimately being busy, he should have warned us beforehand. We have no guarantees he is ever going to pick this game up (and if he does, he's going to have so much to read it's unlikely he is going to be able to really contribute). I think he should at least be prodded, preferably replaced (and don't get me wrong V, I really like playing with you.. you just aren't playing here .

@Insomniac
Are you saying posting counts and voting for the guy who has 0 posts should make you look towny? I'm not saying it's scummy either, but clearly it isn't a reason to NOT suspect you.

[eHalcyon]

Voltaire has dropped out due to IRL work and such. So this is how I suggest we proceed:

- replacement can come from the Spectator QT (I think Grujah was at the top of the list).
- we will move the QT so the replacement no longer has access to it.
- the replacement will be given a post restriction against talking about the QT thread and its contents (and you all should avoid asking about it too).
- the replacement will also be asked not to use any info gleaned from this thread so far (which should be taken with a healthy dash of WIFOM anyway).

[Jorbles]

Can you elaborate on what you mean by "Cayvie's breakdown of the numbers pointing to scum has looking at her." I ask because I got a slightly scummy vibe off of cayvie earlier (I'll expand on why after your explanation, don't want to put words in your mouth.) I am currently voting for her, but it's due to a vote from RVS. I am content to leave it there for now because I am slightly suspicious of her.

This is the post I mean:

4e
65
6f
20
69
73
20
-74-
68
65
20
6f
6e
65
2e

guys! if these numbers are codes for the players' alignments, then surely the scum are the three 20s. let's see who they line up with in the player list!

4, 7, and 11.

cayvie, ftl, jotheonah

found our scum, guys.

wait

I added the bold.  Knowledge of the number of mafia?  That's not in the set-up (I just checked again).  Actually, scumslip?  Bad enough for me to Vote: Cayvie.

Seems kinda jokey, but it's possible she included herself in that list to make it seem less likely she was scum, when she actually is. Remember this is before ftl had cracked the code.

The reason I thought cayvie seemed slightly scummy is that initially she posted about the code/matrix possibility, and then she mostly posted fluff (I'm including her vote for me in the fluff) until she came up with what I see as a wildly speculative theory on ftl and Insomniac being a scum team. Actually reading this over, this all seems to be reading a lot into nothing. I've unconvinced myself. Unvote

@eHalcyon, hooray!

[Galzria]

Unvote: Voltaire's replacement. I'm just a nice guy like that.

[jotheonah]

Vote: ashersky

for two absolutely junk arguments in a row.

[Insomniac]

Unvote

@Eevee obviously thats not what I'm saying I just don't get how me voting for Voltaire to prod a lurker is different then you doing the same thing but people call me scummy for it because a wagon formed where I voted.

[ashersky]

Vote: ashersky

for two absolutely junk arguments in a row.

Knowing how many mafia there are in a closed set-up is a junk argument?  As mentioned previously, you're still on the radar, but Cayvie, at least until she convinces otherwise, is atop the list.

[jotheonah]

Vote: ashersky

for two absolutely junk arguments in a row.

Knowing how many mafia there are in a closed set-up is a junk argument?  As mentioned previously, you're still on the radar, but Cayvie, at least until she convinces otherwise, is atop the list.

cayvie never says she knows how many scum there are. The post is clearly a joke. She's making fun of our code-breaking, so she claims to have found scum using the code. Only, oops, it lands on her. She picked 3 because there were 3 20s in the code. it's just not remotely a slip.

Now I have only played a few games with town ashersky, but you've always been cautious with your votes. Suddenly you're throwing them around on the flimsiest basis imaginable. So I'm happy with a vote on you.

[shraeye]

I'm a bit confused about people's thoughts on the number of scum.  I thought the same thing as eevee when eHalc posted # of dementors killed 0/4 that there were at least 4 scum on the same team.  I wanted to see if I could get some opinions before from other people regarding how many factions there were, but then that derailed into jorbles thinking I meant something special by whispering, (Protip: your definition of whispering and mine are different; for me PM means PM, whispering does not mean PM)

I think I agree with watno here that the 4 dementors would be on the same team (I think that's what he's referring to in #304), but I was wondering if people thought a team of 4 scum was balanced since I'm not as into the theory of mafia and I'm not sure what the ratio should be, or if eHalcyon would add any other scum-factions/players.  Cayvie jumping to the fact that there were 3 20's in the list of numbers was weird, and I'm still thinking that sounds scummy, despite the fact that she lists herself as possible scum.  One thing that immediately popped out as weird was that there are also 3 instances of 65, but that cayvie focused only on there being 3 20s.  I know that ftl has since shown that they mean something different but this jump in speculation by cayvie seems either super half-baked, or intentionally deceiving.  I trust town-cayvie to be more observant than that.  A second thing that popped out is that since I thought it seemed pretty obvious that there was a scumteam of 4, that cayvie would jump to the implicit conclusion that a set of three numbers meant scum.  I can't tell if she knows something I don't, or if she was hoping to deceive us.  Either way, I get bad vibes.

Vote: cayvie

[Eevee]

Unvote

@Eevee obviously thats not what I'm saying I just don't get how me voting for Voltaire to prod a lurker is different then you doing the same thing but people call me scummy for it because a wagon formed where I voted.

That's fair, I misunderstood.

@shraeye (man is that hard to spell, I always end up writing shraye, then going back to see what went wrong because it looks weird)
I think scum is generally more careful than town. Too many people going after cayvie too excitedly?

@Joth
That's an excellent point. I had a weird feeling about ashersky, cut couldn't quite explain what it was. He is a relatively new player and his playing style might still be forming, but that's definitely a case I could get behind. Vote: ashersky, vote for archetype was for not doing anything towny, this is better. I think stuff like this is what we should look for day 1, not stuff like scumslips because how oftenb do they really happen (seriously, O in MIV but that's the only one?).

[Jorbles]

Now I have only played a few games with town ashersky, but you've always been cautious with your votes. Suddenly you're throwing them around on the flimsiest basis imaginable. So I'm happy with a vote on you.

Really? In MX he voted willy nilly and almost got himself lynched as the doctor.

[jotheonah]

Now I have only played a few games with town ashersky, but you've always been cautious with your votes. Suddenly you're throwing them around on the flimsiest basis imaginable. So I'm happy with a vote on you.

Really? In MX he voted willy nilly and almost got himself lynched as the doctor.

I did not play in that game. I'm working off BMV (where, granted, he had a post restriction) and ZM2 (where he had a power role and used it quite well).

[Insomniac]

Unvote

@Eevee obviously thats not what I'm saying I just don't get how me voting for Voltaire to prod a lurker is different then you doing the same thing but people call me scummy for it because a wagon formed where I voted.

That's fair, I misunderstood.

@shraeye (man is that hard to spell, I always end up writing shraye, then going back to see what went wrong because it looks weird)
I think scum is generally more careful than town. Too many people going after cayvie too excitedly?

@Joth
That's an excellent point. I had a weird feeling about ashersky, cut couldn't quite explain what it was. He is a relatively new player and his playing style might still be forming, but that's definitely a case I could get behind. Vote: ashersky, vote for archetype was for not doing anything towny, this is better. I think stuff like this is what we should look for day 1, not stuff like scumslips because how oftenb do they really happen (seriously, O in MIV but that's the only one?).

O's slip was not D1, I was already dead.

[Eevee]

Now I have only played a few games with town ashersky, but you've always been cautious with your votes. Suddenly you're throwing them around on the flimsiest basis imaginable. So I'm happy with a vote on you.

Really? In MX he voted willy nilly and almost got himself lynched as the doctor.

He has improved TONS after that game.

[Eevee]

Unvote

@Eevee obviously thats not what I'm saying I just don't get how me voting for Voltaire to prod a lurker is different then you doing the same thing but people call me scummy for it because a wagon formed where I voted.

That's fair, I misunderstood.

@shraeye (man is that hard to spell, I always end up writing shraye, then going back to see what went wrong because it looks weird)
I think scum is generally more careful than town. Too many people going after cayvie too excitedly?

@Joth
That's an excellent point. I had a weird feeling about ashersky, cut couldn't quite explain what it was. He is a relatively new player and his playing style might still be forming, but that's definitely a case I could get behind. Vote: ashersky, vote for archetype was for not doing anything towny, this is better. I think stuff like this is what we should look for day 1, not stuff like scumslips because how oftenb do they really happen (seriously, O in MIV but that's the only one?).

O's slip was not D1, I was already dead.

This is the second time in this game you've nitpicked on a tiny (&not even important) detail in my longish post and completely ignored the other parts / the actual point. I haven't read MIV (I'd actually be interested in knowing what exactly it was that O said), but surely the exact timing of O's scumslip wasn't really the point of me saying "scumslip's aren't the way to go, but weird patterns". I have no idea if you disagree with my actual ideas or not!

[Captain_Frisk]

This cayvie wagon is comical.  As someone with more scum experience than average, and the best scumslip in the history of f.ds, I can't imagine intentionally or otherwise revealing secret scum information like the number of players on the team.

I would ordinarily vote Asher for this terrible idea, but I'm going give him a noob pass (see: MX Doctor claim) and instead I'm going to

Vote: shraeye for trying to fire up a bad wagon.

[Insomniac]

Unvote

@Eevee obviously thats not what I'm saying I just don't get how me voting for Voltaire to prod a lurker is different then you doing the same thing but people call me scummy for it because a wagon formed where I voted.

That's fair, I misunderstood.

@shraeye (man is that hard to spell, I always end up writing shraye, then going back to see what went wrong because it looks weird)
I think scum is generally more careful than town. Too many people going after cayvie too excitedly?

@Joth
That's an excellent point. I had a weird feeling about ashersky, cut couldn't quite explain what it was. He is a relatively new player and his playing style might still be forming, but that's definitely a case I could get behind. Vote: ashersky, vote for archetype was for not doing anything towny, this is better. I think stuff like this is what we should look for day 1, not stuff like scumslips because how oftenb do they really happen (seriously, O in MIV but that's the only one?).

O's slip was not D1, I was already dead.

This is the second time in this game you've nitpicked on a tiny (&not even important) detail in my longish post and completely ignored the other parts / the actual point. I haven't read MIV (I'd actually be interested in knowing what exactly it was that O said), but surely the exact timing of O's scumslip wasn't really the point of me saying "scumslip's aren't the way to go, but weird patterns". I have no idea if you disagree with my actual ideas or not!

TBH I'm not sure how I feel about the asher wagon. I think the cayvie wagon is awful.

[shraeye]

@Frisk
So I'm pretty sure Asher has exactly as much experience as I do, so this reasoning you gave is either you not realizing we have same newbness, or simply spurious.  My first game was MIX and his was MX, we both played ZM2, and now we both are playing in MXI and this game. 

I'm not saying that cayvie revealed there were 3 scum, even.  I'm still pretty sure the 0/4 dementors disproves that.  It seems like cayvie was laying a false trail for us to follow with that. (and nobody has yet mentioned that she ignored the three 65s in order to point out the three 20s.  Cayvie should be more observant than that.)  I'm keeping my vote where it is, I feel good about it regardless of you and Insom saying the cayvie wagon is comical/awful.

[Eevee]

@Frisk
I don't think you should be giving Ashersky "the newbie pass" anymore. He has come a long way.

To give this post some more content,

my town reads atm: Frisk, Dsell, maybe Joth

My scum reads: ashersky, shraeye, (but he always reads scummy to me so I'm cutting him some slack (whereas I'd say I have a town bias for ashersky)), Insomniac or archetype to an extent.

[Dsell]

Why do people have town reads on me already? Maybe I'm just not used to having people think I'm town but it seems so early in the day to actually have a meaningful town read on someone. I appreciate it but am puzzled. I AM town...don't take this as some big scumslip.

Cayvie's post was completely jokey. End of story. As if a player like cayvie would make such a "slip" so early in the day. It doesn't make her town, but it really, really doesn't make her mafia.

Vote: Ashersky for starting a bad wagon and making bad arguments, like jo said.

[Eevee]

Yeah, hopefully the reads get more accurate, but I think it was noteworthy that your (Dsell's) response to my vote felt townier to me than archetype's. Idk, I believe in saying even my smaller impressions out loud to help town with my reads.

[shraeye]

I'd like cayvie to say something regarding the votes on her.  It feels shady when somebody else does your defending for you.  I agree that her "there are 3 20s" post looked jokey especially because it implicates her, but in post #124 she really sounds like she's being honest about the numbers lining up with factions in her head.  And none of those factions have 3 players.  Which is why I think that her posting that there are 3 20s (forgetting that there are 3 65s) was strange a strange conclusion to make.  It was in direct conflict with her earlier assumptions on the numbers in factions; I'd be quicker to discount this as a pure joke if she hadn't posted #124 first.

[Jorbles]

I had to do a quick vote count to work out how I'm feeling right now, this is what I got:

shraeye   1   frisk
cayvie   2   ashersky, shraeye
Galzria   1   watno
jotheonah   1   ftl
ftl      1   cayvie   
Voltaire   1   Robz
ashersky   3   joth, Eevee, Dsell

The cayvie lynch and the ashersky lynch both look terrible. The cayvie lynch because the logic is so speculative. Since frisk is already lumping on shraeye for supporting the terrible lynch, I will ignore that for now, though shraeye looks scummy to me at the moment.

As to the ashersky lynch: joth called out ashersky's bad play, which I think is the right thing to do, and I could go either way on joth's status as lumping on bad play is both a good move for scum or town. Eevee and I seem to disagree in our assessment of how much ashersky is willing to vote with little reason. Fair enough.

Why do people have town reads on me already? Maybe I'm just not used to having people think I'm town but it seems so early in the day to actually have a meaningful town read on someone. I appreciate it but am puzzled. I AM town...don't take this as some big scumslip.

Cayvie's post was completely jokey. End of story. As if a player like cayvie would make such a "slip" so early in the day. It doesn't make her town, but it really, really doesn't make her mafia.

Vote: Ashersky for starting a bad wagon and making bad arguments, like jo said.

Dsell totally just sheeped joth and leapt on the wagon, though. Compound that with his early game lurking. Vote: Dsell Defending cayvie is fine, but it's such an easy argument to make because the case on her is so thin, it doesn't really buy any credit with me.

I would also like to add that my reads on players so far are:
Super town:
Me
Slight town:
Galzria, Frisk, ftl, cayvie, Archetype, ashersky
Slight scum:
Dsell, shraeye, watno
Neutral:
Everyone else.

Also @Watno, why is your vote currently on Galzria? I don't see any strong reasoning for it at this point.

[Jorbles]

ugh, I wish I'd formatted that differently, sorry about the wall-o-text.

[ashersky]

Now I have only played a few games with town ashersky, but you've always been cautious with your votes. Suddenly you're throwing them around on the flimsiest basis imaginable. So I'm happy with a vote on you.

I can buy this as a reason for you to vote for me, (even though you are wrong about me).  Defending Cayvie (and that's not just you) has been awful strong though, much stronger than I expected.  I suspect at least one of her supporters is a partner (note: in before the ha-ha scum duo on day 1 derp stuff), or I'm just really way off base.  But defending her so strongly AND jumping on my wagon?  That's a bit off.

[ashersky]

The cayvie lynch and the ashersky lynch both look terrible. The cayvie lynch because the logic is so speculative. Since frisk is already lumping on shraeye for supporting the terrible lynch, I will ignore that for now, though shraeye looks scummy to me at the moment.

I mean, sure, but isn't speculation (and speculative logic) all we have D1?  I say it's better than RVS.  Cayvie said something weird, I called her on it and speculated as to what it could mean.  It seems scummy, that's all.

[Jorbles]

The cayvie lynch and the ashersky lynch both look terrible. The cayvie lynch because the logic is so speculative. Since frisk is already lumping on shraeye for supporting the terrible lynch, I will ignore that for now, though shraeye looks scummy to me at the moment.

I mean, sure, but isn't speculation (and speculative logic) all we have D1?  I say it's better than RVS.  Cayvie said something weird, I called her on it and speculated as to what it could mean.  It seems scummy, that's all.

Yes, all we have is speculation, but the fact that she mentioned these numbers seems way more likely to be a joke than a genuine scum slip. Scum would be more cautious than that.

[Watno]

@Jorbles: I don't have a strong reasoning, but I think he was gloryfieing (pretty sure thats not the right way to spell this) and I don't have a strong reasoning for another vote either.

After thinking about it again, i don't believe that scum=dementors, because that would mean all scum players have the same role (dementors don't have individuality), which would be kinda boring for a role madness game.

Regarding cayvie's post that he's being voted for, i think him listing himself as possible scum is more scummy than the thing with the 3 scum members. Somehow I think scum is more likely to say they are scum in a joke than townies

[cayvie]

Wait, people are taking my "three 20s" post seriously?

lol

[cayvie]

Regarding cayvie's post that he's being voted for, i think him listing himself as possible scum is more scummy than the thing with the 3 scum members. Somehow I think scum is more likely to say they are scum in a joke than townies

see, at least there's a reasonable argument.

it's wrong, but reasonable.

[cayvie]

it's like, OH WHOA I IGNORED THE 3 65s

well they didn't line up with me, so there wasn't a joke there!

[ftl]

Cayvie lynch sucks. Don't lynch cayvie. She's cool.

Ash looked scummy but maybe isn't. Shraeye too maybe. But I guess I've just been finding shraeye scummy lately, here and in the huge game.

Jorbles town I think. No read on dsell obviously.

 Voltaire's been replaced by Grujah! Who has more info than the rest of us because apparently stuff went on in the QT! That's exciting!  Hopefully he's not scum.

We also have a post restriction in the game now. That shouldn't be a big deal, as a general rule, post restrictions are made to be worked around if it's pro-town to do so, everyone who has a good reason to get around a post restriction always finds a way.

Grujah, get in here and reread and figure out who's scum!

BTW, has Robz said anything at all with even an attempt at scumhunting or contributing anything yet? He's effectively at 0 real posts. Vote: Robz

[ashersky]

The cayvie lynch and the ashersky lynch both look terrible. The cayvie lynch because the logic is so speculative. Since frisk is already lumping on shraeye for supporting the terrible lynch, I will ignore that for now, though shraeye looks scummy to me at the moment.

I mean, sure, but isn't speculation (and speculative logic) all we have D1?  I say it's better than RVS.  Cayvie said something weird, I called her on it and speculated as to what it could mean.  It seems scummy, that's all.

Yes, all we have is speculation, but the fact that she mentioned these numbers seems way more likely to be a joke than a genuine scum slip. Scum would be more cautious than that.

Absolutely agree its supposed to be a joke, and the numbers don't actually correspond the way she (he?  Can Cayvie confirm gender?  I've seen both used.) said.  But it's the specificity of #3, and including herself in the scum, that seems scummy to me.

[eHalcyon]

Cayvie lynch sucks. Don't lynch cayvie. She's cool.

Ash looked scummy but maybe isn't. Shraeye too maybe. But I guess I've just been finding shraeye scummy lately, here and in the huge game.

Jorbles town I think. No read on dsell obviously.

 Voltaire's been replaced by Grujah! Who has more info than the rest of us because apparently stuff went on in the QT! That's exciting!  Hopefully he's not scum.

We also have a post restriction in the game now. That shouldn't be a big deal, as a general rule, post restrictions are made to be worked around if it's pro-town to do so, everyone who has a good reason to get around a post restriction always finds a way.

Grujah, get in here and reread and figure out who's scum!

BTW, has Robz said anything at all with even an attempt at scumhunting or contributing anything yet? He's effectively at 0 real posts. Vote: Robz

Grujah hasn't replaced yet.  Waiting for his response first.  But as I recall, he lives on the other side of the world so he won't be around until later.

[cayvie]

Absolutely agree its supposed to be a joke, and the numbers don't actually correspond the way she (he?  Can Cayvie confirm gender?  I've seen both used.) said.  But it's the specificity of #3, and including herself in the scum, that seems scummy to me.

Regarding gender, check under my avatar on the left.

What do you mean by #3? Are you referring to the fact that I referred to "the three scum"? I just thought it worked better as a joke.

Had a thought: have we seen shraeye post D1 in any games? I know he died N1 in IX.

[Dsell]

The cayvie lynch and the ashersky lynch both look terrible. The cayvie lynch because the logic is so speculative. Since frisk is already lumping on shraeye for supporting the terrible lynch, I will ignore that for now, though shraeye looks scummy to me at the moment.

I mean, sure, but isn't speculation (and speculative logic) all we have D1?  I say it's better than RVS.  Cayvie said something weird, I called her on it and speculated as to what it could mean.  It seems scummy, that's all.

Yes, all we have is speculation, but the fact that she mentioned these numbers seems way more likely to be a joke than a genuine scum slip. Scum would be more cautious than that.

Absolutely agree its supposed to be a joke, and the numbers don't actually correspond the way she (he?  Can Cayvie confirm gender?  I've seen both used.) said.  But it's the specificity of #3, and including herself in the scum, that seems scummy to me.

I don't remember you saying this before. This was Watno's reason but I don't remember you even hinting that this was why you voted before.

[shraeye]

BTW, has Robz said anything at all with even an attempt at scumhunting or contributing anything yet? He's effectively at 0 real posts. Vote: Robz

Here's something I've really been feeling lately.  At first it was annoying, but voting for annoyance is a pretty poor play.  Now I'm looking back going, "wait, has he done anything else??"
Vote: Robz

@Cayvie, I see your joke, but something about it still rubs me the wrong way; i just feel like I'm left wondering what you think about how many factions/scum there could be and, like, there's a lot of conflicting half-thoughts regarding this, at least when I try to interpret your posts. What do you actually think about the setup regarding # of factions/scum?

[shraeye]

Absolutely agree its supposed to be a joke, and the numbers don't actually correspond the way she (he?  Can Cayvie confirm gender?  I've seen both used.) said.  But it's the specificity of #3, and including herself in the scum, that seems scummy to me.

Regarding gender, check under my avatar on the left.

What do you mean by #3? Are you referring to the fact that I referred to "the three scum"? I just thought it worked better as a joke.

Had a thought: have we seen shraeye post D1 in any games? I know he died N1 in IX.

I managed to survive until Day2 lynch in ZM2!!  I guess people equate strong opinions with scumminess a lot.

[Insomniac]

Absolutely agree its supposed to be a joke, and the numbers don't actually correspond the way she (he?  Can Cayvie confirm gender?  I've seen both used.) said.  But it's the specificity of #3, and including herself in the scum, that seems scummy to me.

Regarding gender, check under my avatar on the left.

What do you mean by #3? Are you referring to the fact that I referred to "the three scum"? I just thought it worked better as a joke.

Had a thought: have we seen shraeye post D1 in any games? I know he died N1 in IX.

ZM2 he made it to D2 and was lynched.

[Dsell]

BTW, has Robz said anything at all with even an attempt at scumhunting or contributing anything yet? He's effectively at 0 real posts. Vote: Robz

Here's something I've really been feeling lately.  At first it was annoying, but voting for annoyance is a pretty poor play.  Now I'm looking back going, "wait, has he done anything else??"
Vote: Robz

@Cayvie, I see your joke, but something about it still rubs me the wrong way; i just feel like I'm left wondering what you think about how many factions/scum there could be and, like, there's a lot of conflicting half-thoughts regarding this, at least when I try to interpret your posts. What do you actually think about the setup regarding # of factions/scum?

I really strongly believe that looking into jokes from RVS is a terrible way to scumhunt on day 1. Like, maybe make a comment about it, and even throw a vote on there if you want, but drop it when there's better stuff to discuss. I respect your right to analyze things that "rub you the wrong way," but I cannot see how there's anything objectionable in that post.

[Robz888]

No, I haven't done much here. My RMM and BMMMM meta is to contribute very little until late in the game, where I become one of the last 2 or 3 pivotal town players, and have to frantically figure everything out.

[ashersky]

Absolutely agree its supposed to be a joke, and the numbers don't actually correspond the way she (he?  Can Cayvie confirm gender?  I've seen both used.) said.  But it's the specificity of #3, and including herself in the scum, that seems scummy to me.

Regarding gender, check under my avatar on the left.

What do you mean by #3? Are you referring to the fact that I referred to "the three scum"? I just thought it worked better as a joke.

Had a thought: have we seen shraeye post D1 in any games? I know he died N1 in IX.

Yes, #3 refers to your use of three.  IPad abbreviating...

Shraeye was active other D1s, I recall.  Nothing strikes me as any different this game.

The cayvie lynch and the ashersky lynch both look terrible. The cayvie lynch because the logic is so speculative. Since frisk is already lumping on shraeye for supporting the terrible lynch, I will ignore that for now, though shraeye looks scummy to me at the moment.

I mean, sure, but isn't speculation (and speculative logic) all we have D1?  I say it's better than RVS.  Cayvie said something weird, I called her on it and speculated as to what it could mean.  It seems scummy, that's all.

Yes, all we have is speculation, but the fact that she mentioned these numbers seems way more likely to be a joke than a genuine scum slip. Scum would be more cautious than that.

Absolutely agree its supposed to be a joke, and the numbers don't actually correspond the way she (he?  Can Cayvie confirm gender?  I've seen both used.) said.  But it's the specificity of #3, and including herself in the scum, that seems scummy to me.

I don't remember you saying this before. This was Watno's reason but I don't remember you even hinting that this was why you voted before.

I referred to the post where Cayvie made the joke, and said the three thing was scummy.  Watno did mention the self reference as being scummy, not the joke.  I agree with Watno that the inclusion of self makes it seem scummier.  In fact, I might not have noticed if Cayvie had listed three others.  Would have been more jokey.

[ftl]

No, I haven't done much here. My RMM and BMMMM meta is to contribute very little until late in the game, where I become one of the last 2 or 3 pivotal town players, and have to frantically figure everything out.

Pivotal town players, or scum players.

[Eevee]

No, I haven't done much here. My RMM and BMMMM meta is to contribute very little until late in the game, where I become one of the last 2 or 3 pivotal town players, and have to frantically figure everything out.

Yea, but that's also your scum meta. Saying 'I will be awesome later' is a terrible terrible excuse for not contributing early.

[Robz888]

No, I haven't done much here. My RMM and BMMMM meta is to contribute very little until late in the game, where I become one of the last 2 or 3 pivotal town players, and have to frantically figure everything out.

Yea, but that's also your scum meta. Saying 'I will be awesome later' is a terrible terrible excuse for not contributing early.

Is it my scum meta? I don't think I have a scum meta (I hope). I believe my behavior in MII, MVI, MVIII, and MIX are as different from each other as possible, and by design. And I've only once been scum in bastard/role madness.

[Eevee]

No, I haven't done much here. My RMM and BMMMM meta is to contribute very little until late in the game, where I become one of the last 2 or 3 pivotal town players, and have to frantically figure everything out.

Yea, but that's also your scum meta. Saying 'I will be awesome later' is a terrible terrible excuse for not contributing early.

Is it my scum meta? I don't think I have a scum meta (I hope). I believe my behavior in MII, MVI, MVIII, and MIX are as different from each other as possible, and by design. And I've only once been scum in bastard/role madness.

It is how you've played scum before, and how you could play scum here. And that's why avoiding day 1 because you'll do so great later is almost as bad as claiming VT day 1.

[Robz888]

No, I haven't done much here. My RMM and BMMMM meta is to contribute very little until late in the game, where I become one of the last 2 or 3 pivotal town players, and have to frantically figure everything out.

Yea, but that's also your scum meta. Saying 'I will be awesome later' is a terrible terrible excuse for not contributing early.

Is it my scum meta? I don't think I have a scum meta (I hope). I believe my behavior in MII, MVI, MVIII, and MIX are as different from each other as possible, and by design. And I've only once been scum in bastard/role madness.

It is how you've played scum before, and how you could play scum here. And that's why avoiding day 1 because you'll do so great later is almost as bad as claiming VT day 1.

I don't think it's anything like claiming VT day 1. My point is just this: the bastard/role madness Day 1 is even more aimless than the usual Day 1, so I'm typically not the most active person during it. I don't see this as a problem.

[Insomniac]

No, I haven't done much here. My RMM and BMMMM meta is to contribute very little until late in the game, where I become one of the last 2 or 3 pivotal town players, and have to frantically figure everything out.

Yea, but that's also your scum meta. Saying 'I will be awesome later' is a terrible terrible excuse for not contributing early.

Is it my scum meta? I don't think I have a scum meta (I hope). I believe my behavior in MII, MVI, MVIII, and MIX are as different from each other as possible, and by design. And I've only once been scum in bastard/role madness.

It is how you've played scum before, and how you could play scum here. And that's why avoiding day 1 because you'll do so great later is almost as bad as claiming VT day 1.

I don't think it's anything like claiming VT day 1. My point is just this: the bastard/role madness Day 1 is even more aimless than the usual Day 1, so I'm typically not the most active person during it. I don't see this as a problem.

Why on earth is it any different, you can run day 1 in RM just the same as if it were normal.

[Eevee]

Robz, I think you are sacrificing town's win % to your personal convenience & survival (and also making being scum easier to hide for yourself). Sure, there is no fixed amount of activity you are required to show on day 1, but purposefully contributing only a little / not at all day 1 is clearly anti-town behavior.

[Robz888]

Robz, I think you are sacrificing town's win % to your personal convenience & survival (and also making being scum easier to hide for yourself). Sure, there is no fixed amount of activity you are required to show on day 1, but purposefully contributing only a little / not at all day 1 is clearly anti-town behavior.

It's not deliberate. I am not withholding my thoughts.

[Eevee]

Robz, I think you are sacrificing town's win % to your personal convenience & survival (and also making being scum easier to hide for yourself). Sure, there is no fixed amount of activity you are required to show on day 1, but purposefully contributing only a little / not at all day 1 is clearly anti-town behavior.

It's not deliberate. I am not withholding my thoughts.

You just don't have anything, it's only late-game you transition into a useful player? Okay..

To not seem snarky, I think posting these little reads and impressions is what keeps us moving here (and how scum can be found, if their actions and words dont match). Sure, it's possible that Frisk, Dsell and joth are all mafia and I look like an idiot and people point and laugh at me in various quicktopics, but at least I try from early on. Someone posts reads, someone else agrees or disagrees, that's how we get discussion. Doesnt mstter if it's day 1 and those reads are likely wrong.

[ftl]

D1 of a RMM game should be no different than D1 of a regular game, since you haven't had any night actions yet to be random with, shouldn't it?

[Eevee]

D1 of a RMM game should be no different than D1 of a regular game, since you haven't had any night actions yet to be random with, shouldn't it?

We could have crazy dayroles and what not, but mostly yes. I think Robz is making excuses, but that doesn't necessarily mean he is hiding something (like his alignment). I tend to think Robz is never scum when I think he's scummy, because he plays scum so well I wouldn't suspect him if he was. I probably give him a little too much credit.

[Robz888]

Who is the biggest lurker right now? Let's kill that person.

[Archetype]

Who is the biggest lurker right now? Let's kill that person.

If you insist... Vote:Robz

[Archetype]

Totally joking, you've been posting and you have your own Mafia game to worry about.

Unvote

cayvie's 'joke' could be a scum slip. She's a good player and could have made that joke to make her appear less scummy.

[Eevee]

Who is the biggest lurker right now? Let's kill that person.

I don't know if you are serious or not, but I think examining a couple of the least active players and voting for the guy who seems the scummiest of them is a good way to approach day 1. I'm obviously not going to comment on my own alignment in the ongoing XI, but that method yielded in town nailing mafia Grujah on day 1 there.

[Insomniac]

Totally joking, you've been posting and you have your own Mafia game to worry about.

Unvote

cayvie's 'joke' could be a scum slip. She's a good player and could have made that joke to make her appear less scummy.

Normally Robz says jokes/smileys are a scum tell...

What say you Robz!?

[cayvie]

Yes, #3 refers to your use of three.  IPad abbreviating...

Shraeye was active other D1s, I recall.  Nothing strikes me as any different this game.

Nah, more along the lines of, I'm seriously wondering if shraeye, in particular, gets how D1 is different from subequent days.

I referred to the post where Cayvie made the joke, and said the three thing was scummy.  Watno did mention the self reference as being scummy, not the joke.  I agree with Watno that the inclusion of self makes it seem scummier.  In fact, I might not have noticed if Cayvie had listed three others.  Would have been more jokey.

What? That would be a terrible joke!

"i've found these three scum, and they're Robz, jotheonah, and shraeye!"

that's indistinguishable from a baseless accusation. The fact that I was included in the list is what makes it a joke at all!

[Robz888]

Totally joking, you've been posting and you have your own Mafia game to worry about.

Unvote

cayvie's 'joke' could be a scum slip. She's a good player and could have made that joke to make her appear less scummy.

Normally Robz says jokes/smileys are a scum tell...

What say you Robz!?

I haven't said that in a million years. It's definitely not a scumslip anymore.

[Eevee]

Totally joking, you've been posting and you have your own Mafia game to worry about.

Unvote

cayvie's 'joke' could be a scum slip. She's a good player and could have made that joke to make her appear less scummy.

Normally Robz says jokes/smileys are a scum tell...

What say you Robz!?

I haven't said that in a million years. It's definitely not a scumslip anymore.

It only was when you needed to tunnel me and be right?

[Robz888]

Totally joking, you've been posting and you have your own Mafia game to worry about.

Unvote

cayvie's 'joke' could be a scum slip. She's a good player and could have made that joke to make her appear less scummy.

Normally Robz says jokes/smileys are a scum tell...

What say you Robz!?

I haven't said that in a million years. It's definitely not a scumslip anymore.

It only was when you needed to tunnel me and be right?

Pretty much!

[ashersky]

eHal, can we get the latest vote count?

So, assuming Cayvie/Ashersky wagons are losing momentum, where do we look?  I suppose strat is slightly different given the set-up, but how much?  Role fishing helps only scum, I think, so even with that madness, I don't see that as a viable conversation topic for now.

We haven't discussed flavor for awhile, though it seems important.  What can we glean from flavor that would help? 

If we separate the silly (Robz spells) from the real (Neo code), what are we left with?  I don't know, honestly, but open it up for discussion.

[Insomniac]

eHal, can we get the latest vote count?

So, assuming Cayvie/Ashersky wagons are losing momentum, where do we look?  I suppose strat is slightly different given the set-up, but how much?  Role fishing helps only scum, I think, so even with that madness, I don't see that as a viable conversation topic for now.

We haven't discussed flavor for awhile, though it seems important.  What can we glean from flavor that would help? 

If we separate the silly (Robz spells) from the real (Neo code), what are we left with?  I don't know, honestly, but open it up for discussion.

I'm gonna try this...

FOR EHAL!

VOTE: NO LUNCH!

[Eevee]

Ashersky, that seems like you are trying to plant the idea of your wagon cooling off into our heads. This pace feels reasonable for a wagon that is not a slam dunk. If you were at six votes suddenly, I'd be unvoting pretty quick because wagons forming that quickly are almost always town wagons. The more I think about it, the more I like the ashersky lynch idea actually, and that's really rare for me, especially day 1.

[eHalcyon]

eHal, can we get the latest vote count?

Vote Count 1.3

ashersky (3): jotheonah, Eevee, Dsell
cayvie (1): ashersky
Dsell (1): Jorbles
ftl (1): cayvie
Galzria (1): Watno
jotheonah (1): ftl
Robz888 (1): shraeye
shraeye (1): Captain_Frisk
Voltaire (1): Robz888

Not voting (4): Archetype, Galzria, Insomniac, Voltaire

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

Lynch deadline: Monday, October 8, 5:00pm MDT

Please do let me know if something seems amiss.

[Insomniac]

eHal, can we get the latest vote count?

Vote Count 1.2

ashersky (3): jotheonah, Eevee, Dsell
cayvie (1): ashersky
Dsell (1): Jorbles
ftl (1): cayvie
Galzria (1): Watno
jotheonah (1): ftl
Robz888 (1): shraeye
shraeye (1): Captain_Frisk
Voltaire (1): Robz888

Not voting (4): Archetype, Galzria, Insomniac, Voltaire

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

Lynch deadline: Monday, October 8, 5:00pm MDT

Please do let me know if something seems amiss.

I voted for no lynch...

[Dsell]

eHal, can we get the latest vote count?

Vote Count 1.2

ashersky (3): jotheonah, Eevee, Dsell
cayvie (1): ashersky
Dsell (1): Jorbles
ftl (1): cayvie
Galzria (1): Watno
jotheonah (1): ftl
Robz888 (1): shraeye
shraeye (1): Captain_Frisk
Voltaire (1): Robz888

Not voting (4): Archetype, Galzria, Insomniac, Voltaire

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

Lynch deadline: Monday, October 8, 5:00pm MDT

Please do let me know if something seems amiss.

I voted for no lynch...

Ha! Not even an option, apparently. XD

[Galzria]

I like a Robz lynch. He's basically asking to be allowed into the endgame without contributing early on the basis that "I'm good as town there!".

That's quite simply the single most ridiculous thing I've heard. Put another way:

What merits would being allowed to coast through the early game grant town?

What merits would being allowed to coast through the early hasn't grant scum?

The first not only grants no benefit to your faction through the value of your insights, but it also directly harms your faction by not allowing them to gain any insights on you.

The second, obviously, has a plethora of advantages as scum.

This game is not won as town by choosing who to leave alive until the end D1, it's won by the town (as a whole, as a unit) making informed (albeit often wrong) decisions and learning from them, and to that end everybody is more or less useless D1, and more valuable in later days. Robz doesn't exactly own a trademark on that. It's the nature of getting more information as the game goes on.

Would scum Robz be so bold as to play this way so visibly and flaunt it around? He'll say no. I say I don't know. I say a better question is would town Robz openly and visibly play terrible and unhelpful hoping it gets him through? That to me has a resounding "no".

Vote: Robz

[Dsell]

I don't think I'm ready to put a vote there yet, but Robz' argument for giving nothing day 1 was indeed pretty terrible.

Everyone gets better as the days go on. Day 1 is tough for everybody in the town.

[eHalcyon]

I'm gonna try this...

FOR EHAL!

VOTE: NO LUNCH!

Noon came and went.  Although all the others partook in the repast that magically appeared on the four long tables in the kitchen (directly below the tables in the Great Hall), Insomniac decided to abstain.  "No lunch for me", he cheered with great gusto.

Somewhere in the castle, a wayward teaching assistant incorrectly cast a chrono-acceleration spell.  Before a professor could cast the counter-charm, seasons had passed.  Again and again, Insomniac sat by the tables as food appeared and disappeared.  "No lunch, thanks," he would say.  "I just don't feel like eating today."

Slowly but surely, he wasted away.  Except "slowly" had become "almost immediately".

Insomniac has died from malnutrition.  He was a ---

Then, one of the professors finally got around to casting the counter-charm.  With the help of a fresh time-turner, everything was put back in place, as if nothing of import had happened at all.

That was a close one!

[Robz888]

Woah woah woah woah. We are certainly putting the horse before the cart here. Or whatever. The other way around? (I've never assembled a half-horse half-cart monster before).

I didn't say I refuse to contribute, or that I will never contribute, or that I don't see value in contributing, or that I deserve to be in the end regardless. I was simply explaining that in the past I have behaved a bit differently in bastard/role madness games. I will say something more useful today, jeez.

[Insomniac]

+1 for flavour...I'll spell it right this time
Vote: No Lynch

[eHalcyon]

Vote Count 1.4*

ashersky (3): jotheonah, Eevee, Dsell
cayvie (1): ashersky
Dsell (1): Jorbles
ftl (1): cayvie
Galzria (1): Watno
jotheonah (1): ftl
Robz888 (2): shraeye, Galzria
shraeye (1): Captain_Frisk
Voltaire (1): Robz888

No Lynch (1): Insomniac**

Not voting (2): Archetype, Voltaire

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

Lynch deadline: Monday, October 8, 5:00pm MDT




* Oops, the previous count was 1.3, not 1.2.
** If you expected something special to happen, sorry to disappoint.  My views of RMM no lynching will not influence anything here.  OR WILL THEY?  Probably not.

[Galzria]

I'm gonna try this...

FOR EHAL!

VOTE: NO LUNCH!

Noon came and went.  Although all the others partook in the repast that magically appeared on the four long tables in the kitchen (directly below the tables in the Great hall), Insomniac decided to abstain.  "No lunch for me", he cheered with great gusto, "It's much too exciting around here to eat!"

Somewhere in the castle, a wayward teaching assistant incorrectly cast a chrono-acceleration spell.  Before a professor could cast the counter-charm, seasons had passed.  Again and again, Insomniac sat by the tables as food appeared and disappeared.  "No lunch, thanks," he would say.  "I just don't feel like eating today."

Slowly but surely, he wasted away.  Except "slowly" had become "almost immediately".

Insomniac has died from malnutrition.  He was a ---

Then, one of the professors finally got around to casting the counter-charm.  With the help of a fresh time-turner, everything was put back in place, as if nothing of import had happened at all.

That was a close one!

I fixed your flavor so that the capital letters of the first paragraph spell "Nagini". You were almost there. Had to drop an H and add an I. But at first glance I thought I might've been on to something!

[cayvie]

I fixed your flavor so that the capital letters of the first paragraph spell "Nagini". You were almost there. Had to drop an H and add an I. But at first glance I thought I might've been on to something!

...wow

[eHalcyon]

I fixed your flavor so that the capital letters of the first paragraph spell "Nagini". You were almost there. Had to drop an H and add an I. But at first glance I thought I might've been on to something!

It warms my heart to see players looking at everything through the eyes of a conspiracy theorist.

[Galzria]

I fixed your flavor so that the capital letters of the first paragraph spell "Nagini". You were almost there. Had to drop an H and add an I. But at first glance I thought I might've been on to something!

It warms my heart to see players looking at everything through the eyes of a conspiracy theorist.

Constant Vigilance!

[Jorbles]

+1 for flavour...I'll spell it right this time
Vote: No Lynch

What are the arguments for No Lynch in RMM games and how do they differ from the usual arguments?

[Dsell]

+1 for flavour...I'll spell it right this time
Vote: No Lynch

What are the arguments for No Lynch in RMM games and how do they differ from the usual arguments?

It gets us to night faster, and night is typically where a lot of the action is gonna happen in a Role Madness game. However, I don't think it's a good idea to just rely on night actions to let the town win because I don't think we can win a well-designed game by just relying on night actions (barring some really good luck for the town/bad luck for the mafia).

[Insomniac]

+1 for flavour...I'll spell it right this time
Vote: No Lynch

What are the arguments for No Lynch in RMM games and how do they differ from the usual arguments?

That the night actions get a chance to work and then you can use the night actions to direct your actions on day 2.

[eHalcyon]

+1 for flavour...I'll spell it right this time
Vote: No Lynch

What are the arguments for No Lynch in RMM games and how do they differ from the usual arguments?

It gets us to night faster, and night is typically where a lot of the action is gonna happen in a Role Madness game. However, I don't think it's a good idea to just rely on night actions to let the town win because I don't think we can win a well-designed game by just relying on night actions (barring some really good luck for the town/bad luck for the mafia).

Who says this game is well-designed?

Since this is a topic I actually have a strong opinion about, I'll give my reason for why I like no-lynch in RMM games.  In short, the day 1 lynch is important in regular games because it is a major source of information.  You have all this discussion, all these accusations and defenses -- that first flip is important to help contextualize everything else.  Plus info on the people on the wagon itself, of course.

In RMM, however, there is potentially another big source of info -- night actions.  Since everyone has a role, RMM means that a lot can happen overnight.  A lot of info can come out from actions.

But IMO, that doesn't mean that day 1 should be cut short.  It just means that there is actually a meaningful evaluation to be made regarding the day 1 lynch -- is it worth risking the mislynch for the extra info, or will the night bring enough info that it's better not to (in all likelihood) kill a townie?  Not lynching is a risk in itself, because maybe the night won't turn up much usable info.

There is no solid answer to this question though, and I believe there are players much better than me who would argue strongly against no lynch, even in Role Madness.

I make no comment on whether no lynch is a good idea in this particular setup.

[Jorbles]

+1 for flavour...I'll spell it right this time
Vote: No Lynch

What are the arguments for No Lynch in RMM games and how do they differ from the usual arguments?

That the night actions get a chance to work and then you can use the night actions to direct your actions on day 2.

So we give up a lot of the info from D1, but gain the info from a night of actions. We presumably don't mislynch someone D1, but presumably still lose someone (or sometwo) that night. Hmmm I'll defer to group wisdom on it. If everyone's on board then sure.

@Dsell, your response to my accusations has so far been to ignore them. This reads like scum waiting for it to blow over to me, though it's possible I am tunneling. Care to comment?

[Insomniac]

+1 for flavour...I'll spell it right this time
Vote: No Lynch

What are the arguments for No Lynch in RMM games and how do they differ from the usual arguments?

That the night actions get a chance to work and then you can use the night actions to direct your actions on day 2.

So we give up a lot of the info from D1, but gain the info from a night of actions. We presumably don't mislynch someone D1, but presumably still lose someone (or sometwo) that night. Hmmm I'll defer to group wisdom on it. If everyone's on board then sure.

@Dsell, your response to my accusations has so far been to ignore them. This reads like scum waiting for it to blow over to me, though it's possible I am tunneling. Care to comment?

Well you are gonna lose X people night 1 regardless* of whom you lynch d1. So you lose one less person and get information from Night Kills, Night Actions and you can still gain information from people talking on D1. I'm not suggesting that we end the day now to just get on with the nght at all, I wanted to make sure people know that I decided I strongly support no lynch this game. I do not think we should end the day yet at all there is much discussion to be had.

*Barring an extremely lucky SK (or equivelant) lynch D1

[Dsell]

+1 for flavour...I'll spell it right this time
Vote: No Lynch

What are the arguments for No Lynch in RMM games and how do they differ from the usual arguments?

That the night actions get a chance to work and then you can use the night actions to direct your actions on day 2.

So we give up a lot of the info from D1, but gain the info from a night of actions. We presumably don't mislynch someone D1, but presumably still lose someone (or sometwo) that night. Hmmm I'll defer to group wisdom on it. If everyone's on board then sure.

@Dsell, your response to my accusations has so far been to ignore them. This reads like scum waiting for it to blow over to me, though it's possible I am tunneling. Care to comment?

Your accusations of what I did were not wrong, you're simply misinterpreting them as scummy. Yes, I was sheeping jo's read to put a bit more pressure on Ashersky, who I agreed was doing something ridiculous (forming a wagon on cayvie for a joke). No, that doesn't make me scum.

It would be ridiculous for you to have tunnel-vision at this point in the game. I've made maybe 10 comments? Tunneling at this point is crazy and anti-town, so I really hope you aren't for real.

[ftl]

Let's not do no lynch. It IS possible to hit scum d1, as robz's mafia proved!

[ashersky]

Your accusations of what I did were not wrong, you're simply misinterpreting them as scummy. Yes, I was sheeping jo's read to put a bit more pressure on Ashersky, who I agreed was doing something ridiculous (forming a wagon on cayvie for a joke). No, that doesn't make me scum.

It would be ridiculous for you to have tunnel-vision at this point in the game. I've made maybe 10 comments? Tunneling at this point is crazy and anti-town, so I really hope you aren't for real.

Did I actually form a wagon, though?  Is one vote a wagon?  I voted for something I thought looked scummy.  That's all I did.  If that had shot up to four or five votes, sure, or even three votes (like on me currently), but one vote?  I think Shraeye joined for a bit, but dropped.  That's all.  Am I the only one who thinks everyone else is overreacting to my original vote?

@insom: I would lean toward lynch, not no lynch, for D1, if we can get a consensus.

[Insomniac]

@ftl & ash: I'm not necessarily saying we have to no lynch either like if someone looks really scummy lets lynch em but I'm not gonna worry about deadline coming up if we don't have a good lynch I can't see myself jumping on a bad wagon.

[ftl]

Fair enough. If we wind up with something like 1 votes on everyone, then we'll end up no-lynching. Still, we should try to push for a lynch if we can.

Robz, what do you think about lynch/no lynch in this game?

[Dsell]

Your accusations of what I did were not wrong, you're simply misinterpreting them as scummy. Yes, I was sheeping jo's read to put a bit more pressure on Ashersky, who I agreed was doing something ridiculous (forming a wagon on cayvie for a joke). No, that doesn't make me scum.

It would be ridiculous for you to have tunnel-vision at this point in the game. I've made maybe 10 comments? Tunneling at this point is crazy and anti-town, so I really hope you aren't for real.

Did I actually form a wagon, though?  Is one vote a wagon?  I voted for something I thought looked scummy.  That's all I did.  If that had shot up to four or five votes, sure, or even three votes (like on me currently), but one vote?  I think Shraeye joined for a bit, but dropped.  That's all.  Am I the only one who thinks everyone else is overreacting to my original vote?

@insom: I would lean toward lynch, not no lynch, for D1, if we can get a consensus.

Unvote. I was going for your reaction, mostly, but also making a statement that that vote, and subsequent mini-wagon, were terrible.

[ashersky]

So I went back to read the freaking flavour again...

What's the Fire Nation?  It was struck out.

Also, that whole defense of house elves seemed to be like a defense of lurkers in mafia games, didn't it?  Just found that sort of ironic.

[jotheonah]

The Fire Nation is an Avatar: The Last Airbender reference. I sort of doubt it's relevant, but you never know.

[ashersky]

The Fire Nation is an Avatar: The Last Airbender reference. I sort of doubt it's relevant, but you never know.

Robz was Avatar scum in the last RMM, right?

[eHalcyon]

...and then ashersky was modkilled for not knowing ATLA.

OK, not really.

Link.

[ftl]

oh hey I watched 10 seconds of that video, and then I was like I've seen captain planet before, no need to watch any more of it

please don't modkill me

[Robz888]

Fair enough. If we wind up with something like 1 votes on everyone, then we'll end up no-lynching. Still, we should try to push for a lynch if we can.

Robz, what do you think about lynch/no lynch in this game?

Definitely we should lynch.

[shraeye]

Robz, I think you are sacrificing town's win % to your personal convenience & survival (and also making being scum easier to hide for yourself). Sure, there is no fixed amount of activity you are required to show on day 1, but purposefully contributing only a little / not at all day 1 is clearly anti-town behavior.

It's not deliberate. I am not withholding my thoughts.

I side with eevee in #359 here. If you aren't withholding any thoughts, are you saying that you haven't had any thoughts yet?  Maybe you just think none of them are important enough to post?  You have to be getting ideas about who is looking at least slightly town or slightly scummy, even if they're just hunches.  But you're doing nothing with those hunches even.  I admit that a lot of my thoughts are thin reads that I am trying to get clarified.  That is how I operate: ask questions, receive answers, make reads based off of interactions.  How do you operate?

Woah woah woah woah. We are certainly putting the horse before the cart here. Or whatever. The other way around? (I've never assembled a half-horse half-cart monster before).

I didn't say I refuse to contribute, or that I will never contribute, or that I don't see value in contributing, or that I deserve to be in the end regardless. I was simply explaining that in the past I have behaved a bit differently in bastard/role madness games. I will say something more useful today, jeez.

Good, I hope that you do say useful things starting soon.  Protip: this wasn't useful

Who is the biggest lurker right now? Let's kill that person.

We've got 10+ days left, lynching the biggest lurker on day 4 of a 2 week "day 1" isn't good.

[shraeye]

@ftl & ash: I'm not necessarily saying we have to no lynch either like if someone looks really scummy lets lynch em but I'm not gonna worry about deadline coming up if we don't have a good lynch I can't see myself jumping on a bad wagon.

I like Insom's argument here.  I'm prolynch, but in a regular game I may be bending over backwards trying to get one to happen, voting for someone who I have a neutral read on because it's better than nothing.  But there's less of a need to jump on a bad wagon here, so approaching the deadline without any realistic candidate becomes less terrifying.

[shraeye]

I fixed your flavor so that the capital letters of the first paragraph spell "Nagini". You were almost there. Had to drop an H and add an I. But at first glance I thought I might've been on to something!

It warms my heart to see players looking at everything through the eyes of a conspiracy theorist.

Constant Vigilance!

Super whoa! That is some impressive vigilance!

@cayvie.  3 quick things

Yes, #3 refers to your use of three.  IPad abbreviating...

Shraeye was active other D1s, I recall.  Nothing strikes me as any different this game.

Nah, more along the lines of, I'm seriously wondering if shraeye, in particular, gets how D1 is different from subequent days.

I referred to the post where Cayvie made the joke, and said the three thing was scummy.  Watno did mention the self reference as being scummy, not the joke.  I agree with Watno that the inclusion of self makes it seem scummier.  In fact, I might not have noticed if Cayvie had listed three others.  Would have been more jokey.

What? That would be a terrible joke!

"i've found these three scum, and they're Robz, jotheonah, and shraeye!"

that's indistinguishable from a baseless accusation. The fact that I was included in the list is what makes it a joke at all!

1:Maybe I do get how D1 is different from subsequent days, and maybe I don't.  Hopefully I'll get a chance to test your theory this game.  How do you find day 1 different from subsequent days and, more importantly, what caused you to bring this up now?
2: That second quote is from ashersky.  I read your post at first and was like "I NEVER said that; look at scum cayvie misquoting like a boss!" and then a ctrl-F showed me that it was ashersky you were quoting.  Somehow reading your post makes it sound/look like I made that quote.  You're forgiven, but please put names by quotes.
3: You should know that I don't give up on questions.  Answer this.

@cayvie
...
What do you actually think about the setup regarding # of factions/scum?

[cayvie]

I fixed your flavor so that the capital letters of the first paragraph spell "Nagini". You were almost there. Had to drop an H and add an I. But at first glance I thought I might've been on to something!

It warms my heart to see players looking at everything through the eyes of a conspiracy theorist.

Constant Vigilance!

Super whoa! That is some impressive vigilance!

@cayvie.  3 quick things

Yes, #3 refers to your use of three.  IPad abbreviating...

Shraeye was active other D1s, I recall.  Nothing strikes me as any different this game.

Nah, more along the lines of, I'm seriously wondering if shraeye, in particular, gets how D1 is different from subequent days.

I referred to the post where Cayvie made the joke, and said the three thing was scummy.  Watno did mention the self reference as being scummy, not the joke.  I agree with Watno that the inclusion of self makes it seem scummier.  In fact, I might not have noticed if Cayvie had listed three others.  Would have been more jokey.

What? That would be a terrible joke!

"i've found these three scum, and they're Robz, jotheonah, and shraeye!"

that's indistinguishable from a baseless accusation. The fact that I was included in the list is what makes it a joke at all!

1:Maybe I do get how D1 is different from subsequent days, and maybe I don't.  Hopefully I'll get a chance to test your theory this game.  How do you find day 1 different from subsequent days and, more importantly, what caused you to bring this up now?
2: That second quote is from ashersky.  I read your post at first and was like "I NEVER said that; look at scum cayvie misquoting like a boss!" and then a ctrl-F showed me that it was ashersky you were quoting.  Somehow reading your post makes it sound/look like I made that quote.  You're forgiven, but please put names by quotes.
3: You should know that I don't give up on questions.  Answer this.

@cayvie
...
What do you actually think about the setup regarding # of factions/scum?

What do I actually think? I have no idea. I suspect that the 4 dementors are scum, but I don't know.

[cayvie]

About question 1, I dunno, I'm just pushing around theories in my head to figure out what seems weird about your play.

[Watno]

I think nolynch is not quite as bad as in a regular game, but we should still try to avoid it. For sure we shouldn't decide to do it early in the day, since we lose even more information that way.

I dont think a Robz lynch will lead us, I rather have the feeling people are trying to get an easy wagon going.

[Robz888]

I think nolynch is not quite as bad as in a regular game, but we should still try to avoid it. For sure we shouldn't decide to do it early in the day, since we lose even more information that way.

I dont think a Robz lynch will lead us, I rather have the feeling people are trying to get an easy wagon going.

This man has some good ideas.

[Insomniac]

I think nolynch is not quite as bad as in a regular game, but we should still try to avoid it. For sure we shouldn't decide to do it early in the day, since we lose even more information that way.

I dont think a Robz lynch will lead us, I rather have the feeling people are trying to get an easy wagon going.

This man has some good ideas.

WhAT NO he doesn't...obvious pun had to be done.

[Eevee]

It's been pretty dead in here after Robz's game went to night, which is weird.

Robz, gun to you head, your top townreads and top scumreads?

[Robz888]

It's been pretty dead in here after Robz's game went to night, which is weird.

Robz, gun to you head, your top townreads and top scumreads?

Top townreads: ftl, Galzria

Top scum reads: Really don't have any, but ashersky is always a shady character to me

[Eevee]

Interesting, why Galzria? He is a huge noread to me, which is unusual considering his usual playstyle.

[Robz888]

He is behaving like typical Galzria here, and typical Galzria is town.

[eHalcyon]

Grujah is opting not to sub in.  I have to run right now, but the call is out for replacements.  Spectators are not as chirpy as I'd like, though we may still find a replacement in there.

[cayvie]

I'm a little surprised I got no traction whatsoever against ftl earlier.

[ashersky]

It's been pretty dead in here after Robz's game went to night, which is weird.

Robz, gun to you head, your top townreads and top scumreads?

Top townreads: ftl, Galzria

Top scum reads: Really don't have any, but ashersky is always a shady character to me

Funny, you are the same for me.  I've always been town, regardless of your read, though, while you seem to flip mafia often.

[Voltgloss]

Grujah is opting not to sub in.  I have to run right now, but the call is out for replacements.  Spectators are not as chirpy as I'd like, though we may still find a replacement in there.

Robz, this is your cue to get M-XI out of night phase so someone who was nightkilled there can sub in here 

[Eevee]

It's been pretty dead in here after Robz's game went to night, which is weird.

Robz, gun to you head, your top townreads and top scumreads?

Top townreads: ftl, Galzria

Top scum reads: Really don't have any, but ashersky is always a shady character to me

Funny, you are the same for me.  I've always been town, regardless of your read, though, while you seem to flip mafia often.

You don't feel like the town ashersky I know at all. Way too.. confident? I want to say cocky, but that sounds like I think you are obnoxious which is not true. Just.. feels like you know more than us mortals and can't hide it very well.

[ashersky]

Status:

0/4 common rooms cleaned
0/10 beans consumed
3/12 cards missing
0/4 dementors defeated

Next Quidditch match is scheduled for Day 3 (Ravenclaw vs. Slytherin) but may be postponed if their common rooms have not been cleaned by that day.

So, some more flavor reading...fifteen of us in the game, right?  So how do we deal with beans and cards?  Some consensus that 4 dementors means 4 scum.  4 common rooms....I don't know, seems there is a lot buried in all this.  No clue how to read it.

[ashersky]

You don't feel like the town ashersky I know at all. Way too.. confident? I want to say cocky, but that sounds like I think you are obnoxious which is not true. Just.. feels like you know more than us mortals and can't hide it very well.

Well, it is role madness, so I imagine we all know something, it is just about trying to figure out how we can best help the town and stop the mafia.  I haven't figured out how to figure out who the bad guys are yet.  Not getting to many strong reads yet, unfortunately, either way.

[Galzria]

Grujah is opting not to sub in.  I have to run right now, but the call is out for replacements.  Spectators are not as chirpy as I'd like, though we may still find a replacement in there.

Robz, this is your cue to get M-XI out of night phase so someone who was nightkilled there can sub in here 

He's locked it until Monday! Who gives 5 day nights anyway?!? Psh.

[Galzria]

You don't feel like the town ashersky I know at all. Way too.. confident? I want to say cocky, but that sounds like I think you are obnoxious which is not true. Just.. feels like you know more than us mortals and can't hide it very well.

Well, it is role madness, so I imagine we all know something, it is just about trying to figure out how we can best help the town and stop the mafia.  I haven't figured out how to figure out who the bad guys are yet.  Not getting to many strong reads yet, unfortunately, either way.

Well (and I'm nor trying to rolefish), it was really weird, but my role PM contained absolutely 0 Harry Potter flavor (it actually contained no flavor that was specifically related to anything), so before the game officially launched I was seriously wondering if eHal was trolling us all with his pre-game talk of Harry Potter.

The reason I bring it up is that the list of things (rooms cleaned, beans, dementors etc.) Means absolutely nothing to me. I don't know if this I'd true of everybody or just me. In a game where Flavor is so important, I have to wonder how many red herrings will be out there.

[ftl]

The number of red herrings is over nine thousand!

I don't know how to talk about our flavor without being all rolefishy or revealing something scum might find helpful. What if either HP flavor or non-HP flavor was tied to power roles or lack thereof? Mafia would have a better read on that then town.

Or should we do one of those limited flavor massclaims that are so popular in RMM games.

[cayvie]

I don't think a limited flavor massclaim is a good idea when we know there's one particular role it's to our advantage to protect.

[ashersky]

I don't think a limited flavor massclaim is a good idea when we know there's one particular role it's to our advantage to protect.

Agree with Cayvie on this.  That universe-claim thing in the last RMM didn't help town figure out much of anything.

[ftl]

That's true, it didn't do town much good in Ozle's BMMMMMMMM, either.

[shraeye]

You don't feel like the town ashersky I know at all. Way too.. confident? I want to say cocky, but that sounds like I think you are obnoxious which is not true. Just.. feels like you know more than us mortals and can't hide it very well.

Well, it is role madness, so I imagine we all know something, it is just about trying to figure out how we can best help the town and stop the mafia.  I haven't figured out how to figure out who the bad guys are yet.  Not getting to many strong reads yet, unfortunately, either way.

Well (and I'm nor trying to rolefish), it was really weird, but my role PM contained absolutely 0 Harry Potter flavor (it actually contained no flavor that was specifically related to anything), so before the game officially launched I was seriously wondering if eHal was trolling us all with his pre-game talk of Harry Potter.

The reason I bring it up is that the list of things (rooms cleaned, beans, dementors etc.) Means absolutely nothing to me. I don't know if this I'd true of everybody or just me. In a game where Flavor is so important, I have to wonder how many red herrings will be out there.

cayvie makes a good point regarding the flavor massclaim idea in light of there being a powerful role for us to protect, questions to claim have given me the heebie-jeebies ever since Voltgloss suggested claiming card suits in the Major Arcana Mafia game, when he had a particular bonus to killing those with wands cards.  The way ftl brought this up reminded me too much of Voltgloss; it gives me a bit of a scummy read when you say what sounds like "oh hey, i don't know, this could be dangerous, but what do y'all think about a limited flavour claim? I'm not saying I'm necessarily for it but if you guys think so, maybe it'll be a good idea." 

There does seem to be a main theme of the flavor that I've noticed so far.  A:TLA and the avatar, Matrix and Neo, Harry Potter universe and HP himself.  I'm trying to think of other commonalities that Matrix and Harry Potter have, I'm much less familiar with this A:TLA business.  One common-theme that they have is the Imperio Curse and agent-takeovers of bluepills.  I'm not sure if there's anything that can take control of another persons actions/bodies from A:TLA? Could this be the powerful scum role that balances the powerful town role?


In other news

It's been pretty dead in here after Robz's game went to night, which is weird.

Robz, gun to you head, your top townreads and top scumreads?

Top townreads: ftl, Galzria

Top scum reads: Really don't have any, but ashersky is always a shady character to me

I also tend to see ashersky as a shady character instinctively, in ZM2 I was convinced that lynching him D2 would get the win and he turned out to be one of the cops instead.  I haven't noticed anything jump out at me yet.  I'm planning a bit of a reread this weekend, and I can hopefully get some clearer reads on people.

[ftl]

questions to claim have given me the heebie-jeebies ever since Voltgloss suggested claiming card suits in the Major Arcana Mafia game, when he had a particular bonus to killing those with wands cards.

Ugh, good point. I forgot about Volt's wands thing. I brought the flavorclaim up because it seems like we do something of the sort in a lot of role madness games. I think you're probably right that it's a bad habit that shouldn't be encouraged without good reason. Sorry.

[Dsell]

I'm sorry I'm a tiny bit lurky. I'm still following everything but I'm really really busy today and tomorrow. I will probably still get some content in and then I'm gonna do a big reread this weekend. Woo.

[Insomniac]

That's true, it didn't do town much good in Ozle's BMMMMMMMM, either.

It helped town immensely...

[cayvie]

cayvie makes a good point regarding the flavor massclaim idea in light of there being a powerful role for us to protect, questions to claim have given me the heebie-jeebies ever since Voltgloss suggested claiming card suits in the Major Arcana Mafia game, when he had a particular bonus to killing those with wands cards.  The way ftl brought this up reminded me too much of Voltgloss; it gives me a bit of a scummy read when you say what sounds like "oh hey, i don't know, this could be dangerous, but what do y'all think about a limited flavour claim? I'm not saying I'm necessarily for it but if you guys think so, maybe it'll be a good idea." 

hee hee hee

i designed that role to make people nervous about flavor claims in the future, because i hate them

glad it's working

There does seem to be a main theme of the flavor that I've noticed so far.  A:TLA and the avatar, Matrix and Neo, Harry Potter universe and HP himself.  I'm trying to think of other commonalities that Matrix and Harry Potter have, I'm much less familiar with this A:TLA business.  One common-theme that they have is the Imperio Curse and agent-takeovers of bluepills.  I'm not sure if there's anything that can take control of another persons actions/bodies from A:TLA? Could this be the powerful scum role that balances the powerful town role?

Avatar has Bloodbending, which allows the user to control the body of another like a puppet. It's not a super big deal in A:TLA, but it is in Korra, the sequel show.

REAL SPOILERS
The two main antagonists are both bloodbenders

[ftl]

That's true, it didn't do town much good in Ozle's BMMMMMMMM, either.

It helped town immensely...

It did? I thought it didn't, I was scum there and don't remember being hurt by it. What did it do?

Maybe I've forgotten already.

[ftl]

i designed that role to make people nervous about flavor claims in the future, because i hate them

glad it's working

I don't like being manipulated across games.

Am pro flavor-claim now.

[cayvie]

i designed that role to make people nervous about flavor claims in the future, because i hate them

glad it's working

I don't like being manipulated across games.

Am pro flavor-claim now.

...

for reals?

[cayvie]

also, what do you mean you're pro-flavor claim now?

you were the one who suggested it!

The number of red herrings is over nine thousand!

I don't know how to talk about our flavor without being all rolefishy or revealing something scum might find helpful. What if either HP flavor or non-HP flavor was tied to power roles or lack thereof? Mafia would have a better read on that then town.

Or should we do one of those limited flavor massclaims that are so popular in RMM games.

[Galzria]

I'm not exactly in favor of flavor claims, but I am in favor of underfunding what we're seeing and what's going on. Idon't want anybody to give anything away that they feel might hurt the town - but if the know anything that can shed light on what this game is about...

Well, it's up to the individual I suppose. I've revealed some about what I know in a wary that I hope will be helpful in directing our actions.

[Captain_Frisk]

All right - time to give this thread the loving that eHalc deserves.  Commencing reread.

[Galzria]

Ahh auto-correct, my nemesis.

[Captain_Frisk]

Ash looked scummy but maybe isn't. Shraeye too maybe. But I guess I've just been finding shraeye scummy lately, here and in the huge game.

No talking about other games!

[ftl]

also, what do you mean you're pro-flavor claim now?

Well, shraeye's point was convincing enough that I changed my mind and didn't favor a mass-flavor-claim here, since it's not like I was dead-set on it anyway, and then you posted and I was like might as well be pro-flavor-claim just to be contrary to your general mean anti-flavor-claim stance. Because flavor is fun. And since your role design was specifically designed to be anti-flavor-claim, and you're not running this mafia, we can discount the experience from that game

I'm not exactly in favor of flavor claims, but I am in favor of underfunding what we're seeing and what's going on. Idon't want anybody to give anything away that they feel might hurt the town - but if the know anything that can shed light on what this game is about...

Well, it's up to the individual I suppose. I've revealed some about what I know in a wary that I hope will be helpful in directing our actions.

Fair enough. I can confirm that I too thought eHalc was trolling us pre-game.

[shraeye]

I'm not exactly in favor of flavor claims, but I am in favor of underfunding what we're seeing and what's going on. Idon't want anybody to give anything away that they feel might hurt the town - but if the know anything that can shed light on what this game is about...

Well, it's up to the individual I suppose. I've revealed some about what I know in a wary that I hope will be helpful in directing our actions.

hahaha, I died laughing while reading this.  I'm also in favor of underfunding what's going on, as long as I can pocket the savings.

[Captain_Frisk]

Wow, not a whole bunch of stuff to analyze here. 

I'm anti no-lynch, even with the mod's blessing (that was weird), and kindof neutral on flavor claiming. 

If the mod really wanted night actions to shine, he could have given us a twilight / night start.  No lynching today means that we'll have Day 2 RVS. 

[Archetype]

I dont really care if we flavor claim, but my role has nothing to do with Harry Potter.

I also oppose 'no lynch', for the same reason as C_F said. We'd just be prolonging RVS.

Still no strong scum reads on anyone, this game has been kind of slow

[Robz888]

I don't know what my flavor is, just that it's not Harry Potter, Avatar, or Matrix. Possibly Spongebob?

[Eevee]

I'm kind of wary of claiming any flavor, my role pm doesn't have any information on anyone else and I fear we'll again just end up helping scum with these partial claims. I'm not super-opposed (if we do a massclaim, I won't Dsell out I'll participate), but I don't think it's a good idea. I've been burned so many times because I cant keep my mouth shut, I'm trying to learn to be more cautious.

[Watno]

I don't think flavorcaliming is a good idea. If Neo is indeed the one we need to protect, that would put him in serious danger.

[Archetype]

I wasnt approving of flavor claiming, I was just wondering if Galz (I think thats who) and I are the only ones without HP/Avatar/Matrix roles.

Im not trying to rolefish, dont feel obliged to tel me, bit I'm just curious if the original flavor has nothing to dlo with our roles.

[Jorbles]

cayvie makes a good point regarding the flavor massclaim idea in light of there being a powerful role for us to protect, questions to claim have given me the heebie-jeebies ever since Voltgloss suggested claiming card suits in the Major Arcana Mafia game, when he had a particular bonus to killing those with wands cards.  The way ftl brought this up reminded me too much of Voltgloss; it gives me a bit of a scummy read when you say what sounds like "oh hey, i don't know, this could be dangerous, but what do y'all think about a limited flavour claim? I'm not saying I'm necessarily for it but if you guys think so, maybe it'll be a good idea." 

There does seem to be a main theme of the flavor that I've noticed so far.  A:TLA and the avatar, Matrix and Neo, Harry Potter universe and HP himself.  I'm trying to think of other commonalities that Matrix and Harry Potter have, I'm much less familiar with this A:TLA business.  One common-theme that they have is the Imperio Curse and agent-takeovers of bluepills.  I'm not sure if there's anything that can take control of another persons actions/bodies from A:TLA? Could this be the powerful scum role that balances the powerful town role?

This. I'm going to say it more explicitly because I think it's important.

The only major connection between the Avatar, the Matrix and the Harry Potter stories is that they all involve a super powered individual who the villains in the story are attempting to kill. The other good guys in these stories are usually trying to protect this hero until the hero figures out how he can save them. If there is a super-town player as we believe, they may have a flavour role that is distinct from everyone else's (and in fact I think it likely) and we may be forcing them to lie to hide themselves. I do not see any good things coming from a mass flavour claim. In fact I think it's such a bad idea that I will not participate in it even if a majority of players think it is a good idea.

[Insomniac]

My role is outside of those worlds

[Insomniac]

Vote: Jorbles

Every single time someone on f.DS has refused to take part in seat/side/flavour/name claiming they have been scum.

[Jorbles]

Vote: Jorbles

Every single time someone on f.DS has refused to take part in seat/side/flavour/name claiming they have been scum.

Really? Well, I guess there's a first time for everything. Also were they in games where town knew there was a super powered townie who would probably want to hide their identity?

[Insomniac]

Vote: Jorbles

Every single time someone on f.DS has refused to take part in seat/side/flavour/name claiming they have been scum.

Really? Well, I guess there's a first time for everything. Also were they in games where town knew there was a super powered townie who would probably want to hide their identity?

RMM1 and BMV are the ones off the top of my head, where it is in fact implied that town has super powered roles.

I should clarify thinking flavour claiming is bad (as I do) is not a scum tell. Refusing to participate in one EVEN if the consensus agrees it should happen, is.

[Captain_Frisk]

Vote: Jorbles

Every single time someone on f.DS has refused to take part in seat/side/flavour/name claiming they have been scum.

Really? Well, I guess there's a first time for everything. Also were they in games where town knew there was a super powered townie who would probably want to hide their identity?

RMM1 and BMV are the ones off the top of my head, where it is in fact implied that town has super powered roles.

I should clarify thinking flavour claiming is bad (as I do) is not a scum tell. Refusing to participate in one EVEN if the consensus agrees it should happen, is.

That sounds like refusing to follow the group is anti town.  Does that mean that everyone who is "off the wagon" on a day 1 lynch is scum?

[Insomniac]

Vote: Jorbles

Every single time someone on f.DS has refused to take part in seat/side/flavour/name claiming they have been scum.

Really? Well, I guess there's a first time for everything. Also were they in games where town knew there was a super powered townie who would probably want to hide their identity?

RMM1 and BMV are the ones off the top of my head, where it is in fact implied that town has super powered roles.

I should clarify thinking flavour claiming is bad (as I do) is not a scum tell. Refusing to participate in one EVEN if the consensus agrees it should happen, is.

That sounds like refusing to follow the group is anti town.  Does that mean that everyone who is "off the wagon" on a day 1 lynch is scum?

No. Thats a silly question, in the history of f.DS everyone who has refused to claim flavour etc regardless of the consensus however has been scum where as people not on a lynch mean they think it was a bad lynch. I think flavour claiming is bad, but if town decided to do it I would 100% participate.

[eHalcyon]

Lekkit has replaced Voltaire.  I don't believe Lekkit ever had access to the Spectator QT, so this is a simple solution.

[Galzria]

Vote: Jorbles

Every single time someone on f.DS has refused to take part in seat/side/flavour/name claiming they have been scum.

Really? Well, I guess there's a first time for everything. Also were they in games where town knew there was a super powered townie who would probably want to hide their identity?

RMM1 and BMV are the ones off the top of my head, where it is in fact implied that town has super powered roles.

I should clarify thinking flavour claiming is bad (as I do) is not a scum tell. Refusing to participate in one EVEN if the consensus agrees it should happen, is.

That sounds like refusing to follow the group is anti town.  Does that mean that everyone who is "off the wagon" on a day 1 lynch is scum?

No. Thats a silly question, in the history of f.DS everyone who has refused to claim flavour etc regardless of the consensus however has been scum where as people not on a lynch mean they think it was a bad lynch. I think flavour claiming is bad, but if town decided to do it I would 100% participate.

This

His vote isn't over the refusal to claim, as most of us feel it should only be done IF it's felt that what's said is beneficial to town, and only then in a comfortable quantity. Certainly nobody is arguing that we all SHOULD claim. However the statement that "I would not participate, even if everybody else agreed" has consistently been a scum statement.

I don't think I'll vote over the statement myself, but Insomniac is 100% justified in his vote based on everything that's happened in previous games. Quite honestly, with the exception of Voltgloss in M-IX, partial claims have never actually helped scum at all, and in BMMM and BM-V, it did help town (well, it SHOULD have in BM-V, as Robz should've been caught as lying scum from the A:TLA universe).

So yeah. Not arguing FOR a massclaim, but saying that anybody who refused to participate would instantly get my vote if we did.

[Galzria]

Lekkit has replaced Voltaire.  I don't believe Lekkit ever had access to the Spectator QT, so this is a simple solution.

Vote: Lekkit

[Galzria]

No, but really, Vote: Robz

[Robz888]

No, but really, Vote: Robz

I support flavor claiming, and in fact, I already did! Why I get your vote?

[Lekkit]

Hi, gyus! I've been following this a bit, but I'm rereading it now. Will post again when I've done so.

[Galzria]

No, but really, Vote: Robz

I support flavor claiming, and in fact, I already did! Why I get your vote?

I just put it back where it was, which was placed originally in the post where I denounced the idea that "I'm a valuable townie late game" was a legitimate reason to not vote someone early game; something at the time, you were very much implying. However, my vote isn't parked there, and if I see something worth voting for that is more scummy to me, I will change it. Until then, your original premise was the most suspicious thing I've seen.

[shraeye]

Hey, I'm V/LA for all of today, while I actually focus on work and make use of a productive kick I've been on.  I'll catch up over the weekend when I get a chance.

[Dsell]

His vote isn't over the refusal to claim, as most of us feel it should only be done IF it's felt that what's said is beneficial to town, and only then in a comfortable quantity. Certainly nobody is arguing that we all SHOULD claim. However the statement that "I would not participate, even if everybody else agreed" has consistently been a scum statement.

I don't think I'll vote over the statement myself, but Insomniac is 100% justified in his vote based on everything that's happened in previous games. Quite honestly, with the exception of Voltgloss in M-IX, partial claims have never actually helped scum at all, and in BMMM and BM-V, it did help town (well, it SHOULD have in BM-V, as Robz should've been caught as lying scum from the A:TLA universe).

So yeah. Not arguing FOR a massclaim, but saying that anybody who refused to participate would instantly get my vote if we did.

In BMV I was half-scum but I think if I had actually been House from House, I wouldn't have played it any differently. In fact, I don't believe I was ever anti-town in that game, though I did a few things that were good for both town and me as SK.

So I don't really think it's "consistently been a scum statement." Like, if everyone is something or other and there's one person from The Matrix, what then? Oops.

Although actually, I'm not personally opposed to flavor claiming this game. I'll do it if that's what majority wants, I'm just not sure it's a great idea for everyone to do.

[Lekkit]

@Robz: You are one of the more experienced mafia-players here. Why would you think that your participation in day 1 would be less valuable than any other player's? Because that's basically the vibe you are setting off to me.

[Robz888]

@Robz: You are one of the more experienced mafia-players here. Why would you think that your participation in day 1 would be less valuable than any other player's? Because that's basically the vibe you are setting off to me.

This is such a weird thing for everybody to be stuck on. And actually, in this game, my participation is less valuable relative to usual, because there's apparently info to be gleaned from weird number codes interspersed in flavor paragraphs, and I'm not the best at that. Just let me do my thing. It works for me.

[Lekkit]

It's not a weird thing to be stuck on. It's basically you lurking without getting the lurker stamp all over you.

I'm not good at consipracies either, but I still think you could contribute in other ways. A lot of players have been active doing stuff other than not posting, or posting stuff that isn't relevant at all.

Surely, you must think something of the other players if you've been following this closely. And I would expect you would do that, unless you don't care. And the only reason I could think of you wouldn't, besides not wanting to play, is that you allready know who is who. And that would be very scummy.

[jotheonah]

For some reason I'm having this problem lately I've never had before where it's hard to stop myself from transferring my reads from one game over to another game. Which makes me very wary of making my reads public on people who are major players in other ongoing games.

I'm not going to say any more on that point for obvious reasons, but keep it in mind if I seem like I'm hesitant to condemn someone who you think I should be all over.

This is basically a personal problem.

[Robz888]

It's not a weird thing to be stuck on. It's basically you lurking without getting the lurker stamp all over you.

I'm not good at consipracies either, but I still think you could contribute in other ways. A lot of players have been active doing stuff other than not posting, or posting stuff that isn't relevant at all.

Surely, you must think something of the other players if you've been following this closely. And I would expect you would do that, unless you don't care. And the only reason I could think of you wouldn't, besides not wanting to play, is that you allready know who is who. And that would be very scummy.

I have expressed my reads. I think Galzria and ftl are town.

[Robz888]

It's not a weird thing to be stuck on. It's basically you lurking without getting the lurker stamp all over you.

I'm not good at consipracies either, but I still think you could contribute in other ways. A lot of players have been active doing stuff other than not posting, or posting stuff that isn't relevant at all.

Surely, you must think something of the other players if you've been following this closely. And I would expect you would do that, unless you don't care. And the only reason I could think of you wouldn't, besides not wanting to play, is that you allready know who is who. And that would be very scummy.

I have expressed my reads. I think Galzria and ftl are town.

Also, I support flavor claiming, and have. Flavor claims have served the town well in all previous bastard/role madness games, I think.

[Insomniac]

I just re-read Jorbles, a lot of his posts are jokes or on the light side of rolefishing. I'm super comfortable with my vote on Jorbles right now.

[Robz888]

For some reason I'm having this problem lately I've never had before where it's hard to stop myself from transferring my reads from one game over to another game. Which makes me very wary of making my reads public on people who are major players in other ongoing games.

I'm not going to say any more on that point for obvious reasons, but keep it in mind if I seem like I'm hesitant to condemn someone who you think I should be all over.

This is basically a personal problem.

I used to have this problem big time, too, though I think it's gotten better. Now I try to always evaluate people against their composite behavior from all other games.

[Dsell]

Everyone should at least consider this while thinking about flavorclaiming:

In BMV I was half-scum but I think if I had actually been House from House, I wouldn't have played it any differently. In fact, I don't believe I was ever anti-town in that game, though I did a few things that were good for both town and me as SK.

So I don't really think it's "consistently been a scum statement." Like, if everyone is something or other and there's one person from The Matrix, what then? Oops.

[Dsell]

Btw, this is NOT me soft-flavor-claiming Matrix.

[ashersky]

I'm still wary of the mass claim, based partly on what Dsell said.  Mostly, I think mafia benefits more from additional information, when town only knows about ourselves and nothing else. 

Mostly, we're just claiming what we're not, but even then, what is it helping?

On the three universes we're discussing, Neo and Harry both die at the end (although Rowling cheated and made everything wretchedly gumdrop kittens) to ensure peace/happiness/etc.--does the Avatar guy die?  Maybe that's how we win the game, just kill the hero?

[Robz888]

I'm still wary of the mass claim, based partly on what Dsell said.  Mostly, I think mafia benefits more from additional information, when town only knows about ourselves and nothing else. 

Mostly, we're just claiming what we're not, but even then, what is it helping?

On the three universes we're discussing, Neo and Harry both die at the end (although Rowling cheated and made everything wretchedly gumdrop kittens) to ensure peace/happiness/etc.--does the Avatar guy die?  Maybe that's how we win the game, just kill the hero?

Avatar Aang does not die at the end of the show.

[Robz888]

Shoot! I meant to spoilery that, not strikethrough it. Damn it! Just lynch me, I'm a jerk.

[Robz888]

Mod permission to change my post from strikethrough to spoiler text, please?

[ashersky]

Mod permission to change my post from strikethrough to spoiler text, please?

Too late now.  At least you saved me the trouble of watching all those episodes.

[Dsell]

Is Harry Potter for sure in this game (not a rolefish, don't claim if you are) based on flavor? It was supposedly Harry Potter "themed" though several people have claimed that their flavor is not from HP. I never saw a reference to Harry in the flavor. In fact, I brought him up in one post and I wonder if that is where people are getting it from. The only reference in the flavor I've seen to a (probably) specific role is Neo.

Spoilers that could be relevant to this game: Neo dies at the end but comes back to life. So it's possible Neo is lynch or bulletproof or something.

[ashersky]

What if there were a bus driver?  He'd need to keep it above 50 mph!

/badkeanujoke

[Insomniac]

Is Harry Potter for sure in this game (not a rolefish, don't claim if you are) based on flavor? It was supposedly Harry Potter "themed" though several people have claimed that their flavor is not from HP. I never saw a reference to Harry in the flavor. In fact, I brought him up in one post and I wonder if that is where people are getting it from. The only reference in the flavor I've seen to a (probably) specific role is Neo.

Spoilers that could be relevant to this game: Neo dies at the end but comes back to life. So it's possible Neo is lynch or bulletproof or something.

Uhh...Spoilers...Keanu doesn't come back alive unless something changed in the blu ray he dies only the oracle and the child are alive at the end, and the child says she painted the skyline for Neo implying that Neo is in fact dead

[Jorbles]

I just re-read Jorbles, a lot of his posts are jokes or on the light side of rolefishing. I'm super comfortable with my vote on Jorbles right now.

I don't think you did a very thorough job of reading my posts, or you deliberately ignored the more substantive ones. Mildly scummy read off of you now, but not sure if it's due to a genuine mistake or a deliberate scummy misread.

[Insomniac]

I just re-read Jorbles, a lot of his posts are jokes or on the light side of rolefishing. I'm super comfortable with my vote on Jorbles right now.

I don't think you did a very thorough job of reading my posts, or you deliberately ignored the more substantive ones. Mildly scummy read off of you now, but not sure if it's due to a genuine mistake or a deliberate scummy misread.

Note how I said alot not all...scum are capable of making substantial posts too, and I didn't say all of your posts are scummy. Nice mischaracterization though.

[Jorbles]

I just re-read Jorbles, a lot of his posts are jokes or on the light side of rolefishing. I'm super comfortable with my vote on Jorbles right now.

I don't think you did a very thorough job of reading my posts, or you deliberately ignored the more substantive ones. Mildly scummy read off of you now, but not sure if it's due to a genuine mistake or a deliberate scummy misread.

Note how I said alot not all...scum are capable of making substantial posts too, and I didn't say all of your posts are scummy. Nice mischaracterization though.

Emphasis mine.

Bah, same to you.

[Dsell]

Is Harry Potter for sure in this game (not a rolefish, don't claim if you are) based on flavor? It was supposedly Harry Potter "themed" though several people have claimed that their flavor is not from HP. I never saw a reference to Harry in the flavor. In fact, I brought him up in one post and I wonder if that is where people are getting it from. The only reference in the flavor I've seen to a (probably) specific role is Neo.

Spoilers that could be relevant to this game: Neo dies at the end but comes back to life. So it's possible Neo is lynch or bulletproof or something.

Uhh...Spoilers...Keanu doesn't come back alive unless something changed in the blu ray he dies only the oracle and the child are alive at the end, and the child says she painted the skyline for Neo implying that Neo is in fact dead

I meant the first movie. The second and third just...don't even count.

So yeah. Ignore me, Insom's right because I just have a mental block towards Reloaded and Revolutions.

[Robz888]

Is Harry Potter for sure in this game (not a rolefish, don't claim if you are) based on flavor? It was supposedly Harry Potter "themed" though several people have claimed that their flavor is not from HP. I never saw a reference to Harry in the flavor. In fact, I brought him up in one post and I wonder if that is where people are getting it from. The only reference in the flavor I've seen to a (probably) specific role is Neo.

Spoilers that could be relevant to this game: Neo dies at the end but comes back to life. So it's possible Neo is lynch or bulletproof or something.

Uhh...Spoilers...Keanu doesn't come back alive unless something changed in the blu ray he dies only the oracle and the child are alive at the end, and the child says she painted the skyline for Neo implying that Neo is in fact dead

I meant the first movie. The second and third just...don't even count.

So yeah. Ignore me, Insom's right because I just have a mental block towards Reloaded and Revolutions.

Oh, you're one of those haters. The second movie is better than the first, in my view. The third one has some problems but is still decent.

[Captain_Frisk]

Oh, you're one of those haters. The second movie is better than the first, in my view. The third one has some problems but is still decent.

This single statement more offensive in magnitude than the sum of the magnitudes of all offensive statements in RSP put together.

[Galzria]

Oh, you're one of those haters. The second movie is better than the first, in my view. The third one has some problems but is still decent.

This single statement more offensive in magnitude than the sum of the magnitudes of all offensive statements in RSP put together.

Yes.

[Robz888]

Oh, you're one of those haters. The second movie is better than the first, in my view. The third one has some problems but is still decent.

This single statement more offensive in magnitude than the sum of the magnitudes of all offensive statements in RSP put together.

http://www.avclub.com/articles/defending-the-matrix-sequels,63648/

[Captain_Frisk]

Oh, you're one of those haters. The second movie is better than the first, in my view. The third one has some problems but is still decent.

This single statement more offensive in magnitude than the sum of the magnitudes of all offensive statements in RSP put together.

http://www.avclub.com/articles/defending-the-matrix-sequels,63648/

The article is fine.  In fact, I agree with this paragraph:

Granted, I can’t contend that either Matrix sequel is as good as the original, which is one of the best films of its decade. I also can’t contend that The Matrix really needed a sequel—let alone two. As with Star Wars, The Matrix introduces a world and a history and hints that there’s more to be revealed, but it doesn’t really play like the first chapter of a story. If anything, one of the keys to The Matrix’s success is that it intentionally leaves so many questions unanswered about who Neo really is, and how the virtual world and the real world intersect. Fans were left to hash all that out among themselves—which at the time proved as diverting as the movie itself.

Emphasis mine.

[Robz888]

Perhaps I shouldn't have said "the second is better." I should have said, "I enjoyed the second one more." But everyone acts like the sequels were 'The Room'-level bad, and I just don't get it.

[Robz888]

But anyway, mafia.

Vote: Jorbles

His stuff is a bit humorous.

[Insomniac]

For me The matrix movies are of descending quality (1>2>3)
However I greatly enjoyed all of them and they remain my favourite trilogy. With the first one claiming my favourite movie spot still.

[Voltgloss]

But everyone acts like the sequels were 'The Room'-level bad

[Eevee]

Uuh, I'm gone for a bit and all hell breaks loose.

I didn't even like the first Matrix movie that much. Seen it twice, weren't interested enough in watching the sequels. I don't have a particular town read on Jorbles, so not really opposing the case (I often am day1 as you probably now by now), but I still like ashersky better. I think a point in Jorbles's favor is that he had a reason for declining already before the suspicion arose, but he probably would prepare one if he declined for scummy reasons too so the point is kind of moot. I guess the reason I don't find it that damning is that I agree with him on flavor-claiming being a bad idea, and could very well sew him being a newer townie making (a possibly costly) mistake. But yeah, I don't want to defend him too much as I don't really have a town read on him either.

Archetype should post more.

[cayvie]

i'm finding this game frustrating!

i don't have anything to latch onto. my flavor claim position is actually moving toward "on the fence".

[cayvie]

i do want to say, though: if someone out there is looking for Neo or Harry or Aang, then claiming that you aren't from their respective source materials is just as helpful to their hunters as full claiming.

[Eevee]

i'm finding this game frustrating!

i don't have anything to latch onto. my flavor claim position is actually moving toward "on the fence".

This is less frustrating than day 1 usually is imo. I think we as a community have improved vastly in playing day 1.

[ftl]

I had a little bit of a town read on Jorbles at first, it went away later though. I still don't have a scumread on him.

What's with all this movie talk!

At this point it seems like a lot of people have roles outside of HP and the HP flavor was definitely modtrolling of some kind, don't know what kind. I think that at least may be useful to know. We'll see when night happens whether flavor changes or whatnot, with dementors and beans and cards. I'm back to being neutral about flavorclaims, I'll probably go along with whatever everyone decides. We may or may not even have a Neo, Harry Potter, Aang, or whatever.

Bah, I've lost like all my scum and townreads over the last few pages. Vote: jotheonah

[Eevee]

Bah, I've lost like all my scum and townreads over the last few pages. Vote: jotheonah

Why?

[Dsell]

Eevee, I sort of agree that we are getting better at day 1, but that translates to not much of anything sticking out to me one way or another. Hopefully a reread will help.

[ftl]

Bah, I've lost like all my scum and townreads over the last few pages. Vote: jotheonah

Why?

Dunno. Until a bit back I thought Jorbles was probably town, and Robz was probably scum, but then stuff has been happening recently and both of those reads sort of went away.

[Eevee]

Eevee, I sort of agree that we are getting better at day 1, but that translates to not much of anything sticking out to me one way or another. Hopefully a reread will help.

We go after better candidates nowadays (the guys who play different than usual, preferably in that they try to stay in the back and never really say anything or take positions, compared to the earlier meta of lynching someone for being controversial [sadly still happens] or for making a stupid comment or a mistake).

That came out confusing, probably time to head to sleeps already. I'll be VLA for the entire tomorrow (my former room mate is moving to mexico and having a farewell party), won't be reading/posting in the next 36 hours.

PPE: @ftl
I meant why the vote?

[ftl]

Oh. I looked over the list of people in the game and picked out someone who I thought seemed scummy based on my gut feelings.

Not really random, but doesn't really have anything concrete behind it either. I figured I should put my vote somewhere, picked joth.

[Archetype]

Archetype should post more.

I know I've been pretty busy.

Starting to get some better reads on people.

Dsell is seeming very townish to me as well as Galz.

Slightly supsicious of ftl, Insomniac, and Eevee
Neutral reads on everyone else.

I also really haven't put a vote on anyone, so I'll go with a Vote: ftl for now. Probably will change once things start heating up.

[Eevee]

I also really haven't put a vote on anyone, so I'll go with a Vote: ftl for now. Probably will change once things start heating up.

Couldn't resist checking the thread once more from phone and glad I didn't; this stood out as ultra-scummy to me. Seems like arhetype is setting himself up so that he can jump on any other wagon that might get rolling later. Cant quite word it clearly but myube you get what I mean? Isnt that the classiciest scum hedge behaviour ever?
Vote: archetype (before anyone jumps on me for voting for a mistake, I dont consider this a mistake but a very scummy position)

[Archetype]

I also really haven't put a vote on anyone, so I'll go with a Vote: ftl for now. Probably will change once things start heating up.

Couldn't resist checking the thread once more from phone and glad I didn't; this stood out as ultra-scummy to me. Seems like arhetype is setting himself up so that he can jump on any other wagon that might get rolling later. Cant quite word it clearly but myube you get what I mean? Isnt that the classiciest scum hedge behaviour ever?
Vote: archetype (before anyone jumps on me for voting for a mistake, I dont consider this a mistake but a very scummy position)

I didn't mean to appear scummy, but honestly, I don't really see any players that stand out as scummy. I guess I just worded it in a way so that it sounds scummy.

So yes it was a misunderstanding and I could have worded it a lot better.

[jotheonah]

Vote: Eevee

... aren't we playing "vote for the last person who posted"?

[jotheonah]

Way to mess up my snark, Archetype.

[Eevee]

I also really haven't put a vote on anyone, so I'll go with a Vote: ftl for now. Probably will change once things start heating up.

Couldn't resist checking the thread once more from phone and glad I didn't; this stood out as ultra-scummy to me. Seems like arhetype is setting himself up so that he can jump on any other wagon that might get rolling later. Cant quite word it clearly but myube you get what I mean? Isnt that the classiciest scum hedge behaviour ever?
Vote: archetype (before anyone jumps on me for voting for a mistake, I dont consider this a mistake but a very scummy position)

I didn't mean to appear scummy, but honestly, I don't really see any players that stand out as scummy. I guess I just worded it in a way so that it sounds scummy.

So yes it was a misunderstanding and I could have worded it a lot better.

Saying 'i didnt mean to appear scummy' isnt the sharpest defence.. :) But sure, townies can make mistakes too and I won't completely crucify you for that, but let it be known I now find you the scummiest of us and for that am voting for you. Still also like ashersky though.

[Eevee]

Grrr @joth for trying to rvs and snark when I think I have a legit case on ash and would want to know what others think of it.

[cayvie]

Archetype should post more.

I also really haven't put a vote on anyone, so I'll go with a Vote: ftl for now. Probably will change once things start heating up.

Sentence 1: why?
Sentence 2: why?

[jotheonah]

Grrr @joth for trying to rvs and snark when I think I have a legit case on ash and would want to know what others think of it.

don't you mean Archetype?

[Eevee]

Grrr @joth for trying to rvs and snark when I think I have a legit case on ash and would want to know what others think of it.

don't you mean Archetype?

yes, arch. sorry.

[Archetype]

Archetype should post more.

I also really haven't put a vote on anyone, so I'll go with a Vote: ftl for now. Probably will change once things start heating up.

Sentence 1: why?
Sentence 2: why?

Sentence 1: ftl seems the scummiest to mean, but I'm starting to think Eevee is. Probably because of OMGUS.
Sentence 2: Now that I think I have a better scum read on people, I'm going to change:
Vote: Eevee

[ftl]

What do you find scummy about Eevee?

[Archetype]

Voting for me just for a simple wording error.

Plus OMGUS.

[Eevee]

Voting for me just for a simple wording error.

Plus OMGUS.

It's not an error, it's your actual plan. How are other people not picking up on this at all, is it just me? Do you think I'm scummy because I find you scummy? You know thats what omgus means..

[ashersky]

I agree with Eevee that Archetype's plan sounds a bit scummy; the whole "I'll plant my vote here for now but will change when I can hop to a safe wagon" thing comes across badly.

That said, I think Eevee's behavior lately has been suspect, especially given past play.  Eevee is the towniest of town, and yet not this game.  He's just a bit...off?  Vote: Eevee.

I understand he's going V/LA though, so note I am willing to unvote if this turns into a quick-wagon.

I'll note joth in the scummish column as well.  Robz a bit closer to neutral.

[Lekkit]

I actually find Eevee towny. All the games I've played with him he's been all over the place trying hard to make things happen. This game is no different.

[Captain_Frisk]

I actually find Eevee towny. All the games I've played with him he's been all over the place trying hard to make things happen. This game is no different.

I always find him scummy.  M7 was a great example. I guess I agree with you, but one of these days he's going to fool us all.

[Eevee]

Breaking my VLA one last time, phoneposting before the party. First, I'd like to note the two guys I've been heavily suspecting are the ones voting for me, so I actually feel pretty good about that. "Press it until it hurts" if you get the Suits-reference. I assume the thing that "feels off" about my play here is the aggressiveness of my scumhunting? Because I actually decided pre-game I'd try that, I've sort of forgotten the fail of murder mystery and VII and have my stronger performances (IX and X) fresh in my mind, so I feel more confident in my abilities for a change and also for oncr have so few games going I can really focus on this (especially after dying in wafflemafia). So, I've consciously tried to stop my terrible tendency of never building my own cases but rather sheeping others (even if they are smarter than I am, it sucks because they might be scum). So yeah, I realize this makes me more controversial but I really think it's stronger play too.

[jotheonah]

I find that rather compelling. Vote: ashersky.

[ashersky]

Breaking my VLA one last time, phoneposting before the party. First, I'd like to note the two guys I've been heavily suspecting are the ones voting for me, so I actually feel pretty good about that. "Press it until it hurts" if you get the Suits-reference. I assume the thing that "feels off" about my play here is the aggressiveness of my scumhunting? Because I actually decided pre-game I'd try that, I've sort of forgotten the fail of murder mystery and VII and have my stronger performances (IX and X) fresh in my mind, so I feel more confident in my abilities for a change and also for oncr have so few games going I can really focus on this (especially after dying in wafflemafia). So, I've consciously tried to stop my terrible tendency of never building my own cases but rather sheeping others (even if they are smarter than I am, it sucks because they might be scum). So yeah, I realize this makes me more controversial but I really think it's stronger play too.

Eevee, if you've got MX in mind, you ought to be thinking back on my style there, too.  And unvote, because your read is wrong.  I may be playing more confidently, bu not scummily.

I find that rather compelling. Vote: ashersky.

This seems like blatant sheeping and awful scummy.

[Jorbles]

Going V/LA for the rest of the weekend, but I am happy to leave my vote on Dsell. What I think some people are reading as towny, I am reading as cautious mafia.

I'm not sure what to make of this swirl of votes around Eevee/ashersky/archetype/jotheonah. It all seems like a lot of finger pointing. It's a lot of pot stirring for it all to be town on town though.

[Dsell]

Going V/LA for the rest of the weekend, but I am happy to leave my vote on Dsell. What I think some people are reading as towny, I am reading as cautious mafia.

I'm not sure what to make of this swirl of votes around Eevee/ashersky/archetype/jotheonah. It all seems like a lot of finger pointing. It's a lot of pot stirring for it all to be town on town though.

I still don't really get this vote at all.

[cayvie]

eHal, can we get the latest vote count?

So, assuming Cayvie/Ashersky wagons are losing momentum, where do we look?  I suppose strat is slightly different given the set-up, but how much?  Role fishing helps only scum, I think, so even with that madness, I don't see that as a viable conversation topic for now.

We haven't discussed flavor for awhile, though it seems important.  What can we glean from flavor that would help? 

If we separate the silly (Robz spells) from the real (Neo code), what are we left with?  I don't know, honestly, but open it up for discussion.

Eevee, if you've got MX in mind, you ought to be thinking back on my style there, too.  And unvote, because your read is wrong.  I may be playing more confidently, bu not scummily.

You know, you don't get to just declare what the town thinks, especially not about how you're playing. Your repeated attempts remind me of Robz in Mafia VI.

vote: ashersky

[jotheonah]

Breaking my VLA one last time, phoneposting before the party. First, I'd like to note the two guys I've been heavily suspecting are the ones voting for me, so I actually feel pretty good about that. "Press it until it hurts" if you get the Suits-reference. I assume the thing that "feels off" about my play here is the aggressiveness of my scumhunting? Because I actually decided pre-game I'd try that, I've sort of forgotten the fail of murder mystery and VII and have my stronger performances (IX and X) fresh in my mind, so I feel more confident in my abilities for a change and also for oncr have so few games going I can really focus on this (especially after dying in wafflemafia). So, I've consciously tried to stop my terrible tendency of never building my own cases but rather sheeping others (even if they are smarter than I am, it sucks because they might be scum). So yeah, I realize this makes me more controversial but I really think it's stronger play too.

Eevee, if you've got MX in mind, you ought to be thinking back on my style there, too.  And unvote, because your read is wrong.  I may be playing more confidently, bu not scummily.

I find that rather compelling. Vote: ashersky.

This seems like blatant sheeping and awful scummy.

False. I was the first one to vote for you remember? Eevee's just talked me back onto the wagon. I only abandoned it before because it looked dead.

[ashersky]

You know, you don't get to just declare what the town thinks, especially not about how you're playing. Your repeated attempts remind me of Robz in Mafia VI.

vote: ashersky

That's a first, I've never been compared to Robz before.

I think I am allowed to declare what I think the town thinks, which is what I was doing.  Do I need to preface all statements with "I think..."?

Maybe folks need to take the weekend to recharge the batteries and come at this fresh.  There's been a lot of jumping all over each other for what seems like very little.

I will say, my reads, in descending order of scumminess (should get this in in case I die--also, I assume scum is on my wagon):

Scummy:  Eevee, Joth, cayvie, insom, galz

Neutral:  Dsell, ftl, Archetype, frisk

Town:  Robz, Jorbles, Me.

Null:  everyone else

Lot of quiet folks the last few days...maybe they'll mail in some content soon...

PPE:

False. I was the first one to vote for you remember? Eevee's just talked me back onto the wagon. I only abandoned it before because it looked dead.

Fair enough.  Why were you willing to let the wagon die on me if you are so sure I am scum?  (I am not mafia.)

[ashersky]

eHalc, can we get a vote count?  I think it's been about six pages and a dozen votes back.

I believe I am at L-4.  There may be two people with 2 votes.

[Voltgloss]

Vote Count 1.5

Archetype (1): Eevee
ashersky (2): jotheonah, cayvie
Dsell (1): Jorbles
Eevee (2): Archetype, ashersky
Galzria (1): Watno
Jorbles (2): Insomniac, Robz888
jotheonah (1): ftl
Robz888 (2): shraeye, Galzria
shraeye (1): Captain_Frisk

Not voting (2): Lekkit, Dsell

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

Lynch deadline: Monday, October 8, 5:00pm MDT

[Watno]

I don't think Eevee is scummy for voting Archetype. His argument makes sense.

I don't like Archetypes defense. He says Eevee is voting him over a wording error which i don't see Eevee saying he did, and votes him with the justification "OMGUS and he voted me". Well "He voted me" is OMGUS". Not sure wether its scummy though.

However, i'll vote ashersky

I agree with Eevee that Archetype's plan sounds a bit scummy; the whole "I'll plant my vote here for now but will change when I can hop to a safe wagon" thing comes across badly.

That said, I think Eevee's behavior lately has been suspect, especially given past play.  Eevee is the towniest of town, and yet not this game.  He's just a bit...off?  Vote: Eevee.

I understand he's going V/LA though, so note I am willing to unvote if this turns into a quick-wagon.

I'll note joth in the scummish column as well.  Robz a bit closer to neutral.

What i read here is: "What Eevee says makes sense, but his playing scummy lately. I vote him" I don't see why you find Eevee's behaviour suspect if you agree with it?

[ashersky]

I don't think Eevee is scummy for voting Archetype. His argument makes sense.

I don't like Archetypes defense. He says Eevee is voting him over a wording error which i don't see Eevee saying he did, and votes him with the justification "OMGUS and he voted me". Well "He voted me" is OMGUS". Not sure wether its scummy though.

However, i'll vote ashersky

I agree with Eevee that Archetype's plan sounds a bit scummy; the whole "I'll plant my vote here for now but will change when I can hop to a safe wagon" thing comes across badly.

That said, I think Eevee's behavior lately has been suspect, especially given past play.  Eevee is the towniest of town, and yet not this game.  He's just a bit...off?  Vote: Eevee.

I understand he's going V/LA though, so note I am willing to unvote if this turns into a quick-wagon.

I'll note joth in the scummish column as well.  Robz a bit closer to neutral.

What i read here is: "What Eevee says makes sense, but his playing scummy lately. I vote him" I don't see why you find Eevee's behaviour suspect if you agree with it?

I think you misread.  I said I agree with Eevee's take on Arch's actions, not with Eevee's behavior.  You even say that in your question.  They are two separate things--Eevee's take on Arch and Eevee's behavior--which is how I can agree on one and vote on the other.

[Lekkit]

ashersky, why do you think Insom and Galz are scummy? And why do you think Robz is town?

[shraeye]

Reread complete.  Reads are as follows.

Archetype: Quite scummy.  Right out of the gates, Archetype starts some weirdness.  He proposes random lynch, but also explicitly says that he doesn't want to be the one to lead that idea.  He calls eevee scummy for wanting to lynch lurkers in #284, but backs off almost immediately in #302 because of eevee's defense of "well joth and insom were pushing harder."  That's a terrible defense, and I'm always suspicious of people who "believe" bad arguments.  In #446 he has no strong scum reads.  Then in #508 he says he's getting "better reads on people", but then just randomly votes ftl without explanation, and as Eevee pointed out, gives himself an excuse to jump onto other wagons.  Despite this vote and his "better reads", he immediately in #510 says "but honestly, I don't really see any players that stand out as scummy".  And now he's doing the blatant OMGUS on eevee.  All of his actions seem driven by no arguments, bad arguments, or contradictory arguments.

ashersky: medium-strong town read.  I see lots of parallels to his play in ZM2, where he surprised me since I was convinced he was scum.  Now I'm understanding him better.  People have said that his arguments are very suspect, but I disagree.  He had a reasonable case on Eevee, that I didn't see anyone pick up on in post #264.  I agree with his self-assessment, that he's playing with more confidence in his reads, and that's the only change I see in him from his previous games.  Other people are saying "that feels different!" and assuming he's scummy.  He's playing pretty dangerously if he's scum, as he's giving more "reads" posts than anyone else, and taking very vocal positions.

cayvie: neutral to slight scum read.  There's the whole joke about the numbers that she posted.  I still think that joke feels scummy due to it being preceeded by post #124 where she basically says that she suspects these are factions.  I'm still not sure why she was speculating about whether I knew how D2 was different.  It seems that that speculation has no bearing on how D1 is progressing right now, it just serves to try to minimize the opinion of one of the main people who is suspicious of her.  Discredit instead of defend?  I don't like.  I think that cayvie's case on ftl had good merit though, and many people let that slip by.

Dsell: slight town read.  I agree that Jorbles is tunnelling Dsell too much, there are much scummier people out there.  He has taken some major stances on things, defending cayvie, and attacking Robz's philosophy of sitting back and adding very little on Day 1 for RMM games.  This is a bit of a gut-read and I look forward to seeing DSell posting more.

Eevee: slight scum My major problem with eevee's play is his hedging.  It seems to creep up all over the place.  In #223 he explains why he thinks Robz-casting is town-aligned, but he admits in that post that it's 'not a bulletproof argument'.  In #240 he is admitting that pushing my "slip" over whispering is anti-town and also asks others if we should do it (this is asher's argument).  In #274 he points out 4 person scum-team is reasonable, but immediately hedges with "but obviously it's possible we are dealing with something else."  See post #267 for hedges within hedges regarding jotheonah voting for voltaire, it's mind-boggling trying to unwrap that post.

Frisk: neutral  But also infuriating.  Why is he posting soo little again?  He puts out just enough to get beyond my tipping point between useless-lurker and oh-he's-actually-playing.  #456, 445, and 324 see him actually taking positions on a few things.  Post more.

ftl: Scummy Post #280 felt initially like he's shotgunning around arguments and scumreads and seeing what sticks; didn't like that.  On second read, some of those points seem less like pointing out suspicious things, and more like just taking the opportunity to chide various players.  Well, I don't like that either.  But here are the main reasons I'm getting a scum read off him.  In posts #426, 431, 436 he thinks that talking about flavor could be dangerous to town, but then immediately suggests flavor claiming.  And then within 10 posts, he backs off (431) then gets back on (436) the flavor claiming.  It seems waaay too much like he's just trying to end up on the same side as the majority and snag some town-cred here.  Then he votes for joth with "no concrete reasons" (#507) and then in #519 demands that Archetype explain his vote on Eevee.  Lord forbid that anyone other than ftl make a vote based on no evidence of scumminess.

Galz: gut says town, head says "watch out"  The head is saying watch out, because there's many many information filled posts here, but not much analysis of other players, or reads on other people.  His post where he was checking for eHalcyon spelling "nagini" was incredible, but in the end, gives no town/scum-read.  He voted for volt for not arriving, and then robz for the terrible "day-1-requires-no-effort" stance.  His stance on giving town maximal information because that is our only weapon is what makes my gut say town.

Insom: slight town  He's contributed his opinions on many topics, defending cayvie, pushing for no lynch over a bad lynch (but he's still pro-lynch in general).  I agree that Jorbles stance on "I will never claim" is not one I like, but I don't think that makes him scum.  Insomniac does have a lot of fluff posts as well, I want to see less of these.

I've got to get ready to go to a bachelor party now, I'll be back tomorrow to post my analysis on the remaining players.

[eHalcyon]

Vote Count 1.5

Archetype (1): Eevee
ashersky (2): jotheonah, cayvie
Dsell (1): Jorbles
Eevee (2): Archetype, ashersky
Galzria (1): Watno
Jorbles (2): Insomniac, Robz888
jotheonah (1): ftl
Robz888 (2): shraeye, Galzria
shraeye (1): Captain_Frisk

Not voting (2): Lekkit, Dsell

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

Lynch deadline: Monday, October 8, 5:00pm MDT

For the record, Volt's vote counts will be as official as my own.  I'm not checking them, but I'm sure he is more accurate than I usually am.

[shraeye]

Thanks for waiting for me to finish   I guess weekends aren't for posting anymore...?  No seriously, everyone, post stuff.

Jorbles: town town. He's being very observant and working hard to help town.  He redoes ftl's code breaking to be safe, and jumps on me for using whisper in #222 and 232.  Like Galz and the "nagini" post he's really looking for unusual things that jump out, but the difference that makes jorbles obv-town to me is that he's supplying a lot more theorizing and taking positions on things.  He theorizes on what "neo is the one" could mean in #254, we see him build and fall out of a read in #306 on cayvie (who he previously voted for) and then convinces himself out of it in #311.  Hedging within a post tends to give me bad vibes, but putting himself out there and then being willing to correct a bad read is something that shows that he didn't start out with the 'knowledge' of cayvie's alignment.  His refusing to claim even against the majority opinion is rather extreme, but I'm not quite buying that this is a scum-only argument.  Remember what many of us have been saying, that claims like this might accidently out our above-average-powerful-town, when he's forced to lie or be the only one in a particular flavor-universe.  Also, I think he could be right about the eevee, ashersky, archetype, jotheonah-fight probably contains at least one scum.  I think there's more than one there, and that possible distancing is going on.

jotheonah: scummy For a pretty high post count he has very little that I think is serious content.  He pushes voltaire lynch instead of replacement from the outset (I can't remember who said this, but someone said that when they were scum, they were very happy to have a lurker to lynch with a ready-made excuse).  He jumps on asher for "junk arguments", labelling them with his opinion that they were "junk" without explaining why they were bad.  I think he was arguments on joth and cayvie? I liked his argument on eevee and cayvie, so I don't think he's really making the junk arguments that joth thinks that asher is making.  His argument was not so strong on joth, I'll agree, although joth's first post about cleaning rooms did strike me as rather odd.  His post/content ratio is definitely the lowest right now.

robz: scummmmy Him only casting spells and using potions up to post #349 was not helpful in the least (he did vote for asher because of asher's "team spirit" post, and voltaire for lurking, as well as asking how people think he plays scum).  His argument in #355 about not caring about being active day1 in RMM is not a good one.  He then posts in #358 that he's not withholding thoughts, which can only lead me to believe that he doesn't have any serious thoughts yet.  Personally, I don't have that level of confidence in my ability to read people without engaging them, or in my ability to stay alive until day 2, and I can't afford to NOT be analyzing people constantly.  It seems to me that the only people with that much confidence in staying alive until day 2 when they'll "finally decide to be helpful" are people who know they don't have to worry about getting NKed.  I keep reading post #355 (i don't usually be active day 1 in RMM) and post #380 ("I didn't say...that I don't see value in contributing") back to back and it sounds like a contradiction every time.  His call in #468 to just "let him do his thing" just feels like he's asking for another day1 pass to me. I do not like that.

shraeye: My name is Victor, Shraeye is a nickname I picked up through playing Ultimate Frisbee.  I got that name after my team met a 8-yr-old kid at Atlanta Bread Company in Savannah, GA.  After asking us all where we were from and not understanding that places like Colorado, South Dakota, and Alaska exist, he proceeded to ask about the food we were eating.  Since I had already finished, he asked why I wasn't eating food.  Someone joked that I'm a robot, and the kid got super excited and told us all about his imaginary robot friend named Shraeye Shraimian.  I chose how to spell it, so I'm not sure why it's spelt so weird.  I blame that I was probably drunk and also exhausted after playing 5 games.

voltaire/lekkit: neutral  I got nothing here.  Post it up, man.  He eloquently makes the argument that I've been trying to say against Robz in #469.  He also has a town-read on Eevee, saying "All the games I've played with him he's been all over the place trying hard to make things happen. This game is no different." in post #523.  Could you explain this more? I have also played with Eevee in 2 completed games, and I somehow get the feeling that here he's not actually trying to make things happen.

watno: medium town read  Not posting all that much, would love to see increased participation.  He also found cayvie's joke slightly scummy in #366, but never voted for cayvie.  Doesn't agree with the Robz wagon for some reason, and voted galz early for "lying" about trying to steer the conversation away from RVS crap and fluff.  I think that Galz was trying to steer away from usual RVS stuff and towards flavor-type stuff, but have recently been feeling a lot like Galz is giving tons of info and not much analysis there, so watno may have a decent read there, Galz is the player I keep second-third-and-fourth guessing everything I think about him.  Watno is also a staunch defender of not claiming because that could be very dangerous for the above-average-powerful-town person.

[Robz888]

shraeye: My name is Victor, Shraeye is a nickname I picked up through playing Ultimate Frisbee.  I got that name after my team met a 8-yr-old kid at Atlanta Bread Company in Savannah, GA.  After asking us all where we were from and not understanding that places like Colorado, South Dakota, and Alaska exist, he proceeded to ask about the food we were eating.  Since I had already finished, he asked why I wasn't eating food.  Someone joked that I'm a robot, and the kid got super excited and told us all about his imaginary robot friend named Shraeye Shraimian.  I chose how to spell it, so I'm not sure why it's spelt so weird.  I blame that I was probably drunk and also exhausted after playing 5 games.

Cool!

[ashersky]

Thanks Shraeye, for all that content.  Very pro-town of you, I believe.

I agree with most of your reads, I think, though we differed most notably on Robz and Galz, and possibly Archetype.

We do need more content in here, hopefully Sunday is a slow day for folks and they can rejoin the game.

[Lekkit]

@ashersky, see my above questions.

@shraeye, Eevee is one of the ones actually pressing people, here. He writes stuff that I don't really find fluffy. I'm at my phone now, but could give you some more when I get back to a computer.

[ashersky]

ashersky, why do you think Insom and Galz are scummy? And why do you think Robz is town?

Sorry I neglected to respond.

Insom for a bit of rashness in his one that doesn't jive with previous iterations of Insom.  I thought his Jorbles vote was scummy.

Galz more for scummish lurkiness, and sheeping Insom.

The are at the lower end of the scummy spectrum though, and I feel much more strongly about Eevee and Cayvie, for previously stated reasons.

What are you thinking, Lekkit?

[Dsell]

I'm gonna start my reread now. I'm also making fudge, so it could take a while.

[eHalcyon]

I'm gonna start my reread now. I'm also making fudge, so it could take a while.

I hope this isn't a euphemism.

But why make your own fudge?  Are you too good for the fudge available in the Great Hall?

[jotheonah]

Cornelius Fudge softclaim??

[Lekkit]

@ashersky: I haven't really had any town/scum-vibes from either Insom or Galz this game, and that's why I was curious. You seem to think Robz is town when everyone else is suspecting him because of his statement about not participating much in the beginning and pretty much only doing random flavor. I would still like to know why you think Robz is town, as I think so too.

The thing is, you do look kind of suspicious to me, as two of the people who voted for you are on your scum-read list, jo have been voting for you and he's on the list as well. And you seem to think you were at L-4, which you were't really close to. Who else did you think was voting for you?

[jotheonah]

Yes, I also found that odd.

In response to your reasons for finding me scummy:

Your cases against myself and cayvie were self-evidently weak, so I didn't feel I needed to spell it out. Your vote on cayvie was predicated on thinking an obvious joke was serious and your case on me was for my very first post of the game, idle speculation about the flavor.

It just read to me as a lazy attempt to look like you were scumhunting.

The other part seems to be that I post a lot and there isn't a whole lot of game-relevant content. I gleefully concede the former. The latter is somewhat a matter of opinion, but I feel I've pulled my weight so far D1. I dislike making people read long books that include my thoughts on every other player. I much prefer to focus on one or two scumspects at a time, and attack them in short snippets.

[ashersky]

@ashersky: I haven't really had any town/scum-vibes from either Insom or Galz this game, and that's why I was curious. You seem to think Robz is town when everyone else is suspecting him because of his statement about not participating much in the beginning and pretty much only doing random flavor. I would still like to know why you think Robz is town, as I think so too.

The thing is, you do look kind of suspicious to me, as two of the people who voted for you are on your scum-read list, jo have been voting for you and he's on the list as well. And you seem to think you were at L-4, which you were't really close to. Who else did you think was voting for you?

Robz is always hard to read, or at least its always hard to explain one's read on Robz, and this game is no different.  When I think he's town, he's scum.  When he seems scummy, he's town.  So far this game, he's been slightly scummy, which usually means he's town Robz.  So that's where I'm coming from on him.  Also, his "I just don't have that much to say so far" is just believable.

I fully accept I've struck a few folks as scummy.  In fact, as you note, I thought I was at L-4 already--I missed an unvote in there somewhere (Dsell maybe?), and maybe others have just called me scummy without voting.  Fact is, I'm not, so that's off.  @Lekkit, this is our first game together, so you won't know how I've read to others before.  I do seem to instill a want to go postal in a lot of folks though, for some reason.

[ashersky]

Yes, I also found that odd.

In response to your reasons for finding me scummy:

Your cases against myself and cayvie were self-evidently weak, so I didn't feel I needed to spell it out. Your vote on cayvie was predicated on thinking an obvious joke was serious and your case on me was for my very first post of the game, idle speculation about the flavor.

It just read to me as a lazy attempt to look like you were scumhunting.

The other part seems to be that I post a lot and there isn't a whole lot of game-relevant content. I gleefully concede the former. The latter is somewhat a matter of opinion, but I feel I've pulled my weight so far D1. I dislike making people read long books that include my thoughts on every other player. I much prefer to focus on one or two scumspects at a time, and attack them in short snippets.

I still argue that the "obvjoke" post of Cayvie's wasn't so weak an argument as you make it, and I'm not the only one here that felt that way.  As mentioned before, it looked like such an obvious joke that to me it was Cayvie trying to seem like he was joking.  It was enough for me to follow-up, we talked about it, enough of the town was convinced it was harmless, we've moved on.  Doesn't make me scummy.

On you, well, you just continue to sound scummy in your posts.  As for me pointing at your first post of the game, it's a sound scum play to post stuff early on so they can then point to it being "early on" and not really important or relevant.  You're a good mafia player, and I could see it.  You're not my strongest scum read, though, so that's just out there to think about.

[Captain_Frisk]

I'm gonna start my reread now. I'm also making fudge, so it could take a while.

I hope this isn't a euphemism.

But why make your own fudge?  Are you too good for the fudge available in the Great Hall?

I hope it is a euphemism, because that would be epic trolling.

My first thought on the fudge-claim, was that fudgemaking was a very unscumlike pursuit, but I still have a view of DSell as a lying sack of scum from MIV, which I recognize has no bearing on his role in this game.

[Dsell]

I'm gonna start my reread now. I'm also making fudge, so it could take a while.

I hope this isn't a euphemism.

But why make your own fudge?  Are you too good for the fudge available in the Great Hall?

I hope it is a euphemism, because that would be epic trolling.

My first thought on the fudge-claim, was that fudgemaking was a very unscumlike pursuit, but I still have a view of DSell as a lying sack of scum from MIV, which I recognize has no bearing on his role in this game.

Not a euphemism, but that would be hilarious! Also I have just been generally busy tonight so I'm only like halfway through, but I'm resuming again now.

In MIV I was a total lying sack of scum, but I have reformed.

[Eevee]

Back from the land of lurk! Note because I just checked it: one week until deadline, so no hurry but it's coming.

I think shraeye is mischaracterizing my play (hi, this again); I definitely have tried to make things happen. I dont quite know how to explain this, but what I'd like to walk away from d1 with is as many "if x flips z, then y is probably q" sort of reads as possible. If we force scum to take positions, they might a) be caught in an inconsistency or b) will at least have to take positions (so need to risk becoming obvscum or bus at least to an extent this early in the game). So, people who participate less become obvtown less often and skate through with no responsibilities as scum more easily, and thats why day1 should imo be about getting people on record as much as possible, and someone who isnt very memorable or participating is the optimal lynch target.

/rant, still under influence but wanted to get back to this game.

[Eevee]

i dont mean to count how many posts or words people have, thats why i dont shout lynch all lurkers.i want content about relations between people, disagreements/agreements and willingness to lynch or lack of it. being online when the votes eventually start to pile is one excellent way of giving town good material.

[Galzria]

Interesting that the two people who've called me scummy have listed the following reasons:

1) I am lurking scummily

-- I disagree. There's only 2 people with more posts than me, and neither by exceptionally large margins. If you wish to make an argument regarding posts vs quality posts, I'll gladly pit what I've contributed thusfar against anyone here. Again, I may not be leading, but I think you'll find that I'm towards the leading edge. So I can't see how this accusation bears any weight.

2) I've not offered anything resembling content, and I was in no way directly responsible for a diminished RVS.

-- I suppose this is a matter of opinion, but I feel quite differently. I've been very forward in focusing on the content of this game - it's flavor - which I believe will be an integral part. Maybe others aren't used to RMM games, especially ones hosted by eHal, but he doesn't flavor lightly. He went on and on ad nauseum about how people weren't reading his flavor in RMM-1, when it blatantly gave huge hints to the setup, and here the title of the game is "Read the freaking flavor". I don't expect it to identify the scum, but I do expect it'll give us information about the setup, and what exactly we're dealing with.

I find it even more fascinating that the person who accuses me of #1, when listing his reads, doesn't list the person accusing me of #2 (one of just 3 people he fails to mention - Post #532 for reference) - despite the fact that accuser #2 has the lowest post count next to Lekkit - and 1/3 of what I've posted.

So FoS to Ashersky.

No FoS on Watno, though I do find his opening tunneling me odd.
---

Shraeye, you're right in your analysis of my play. I have said a lot, but a whole lot of that has been information, not analysis. If you go back and look at past games D1 though, I think you'll find this is often the case for me early in the day. I'm decent when it comes to picking out scum - above average even - and I have a tendency to lock on once I do. But up until that point, I generally find that I offer tidbits here and there of what I'm thinking. I've been called out in other games for appearing like I'm trying to skate by - but it's just the way I operate best. I have no problems if that makes you uncomfortable because it means you're trying - something scum often doesn't do genuinely.

Right now my vote is on Robz. Ash and Joth have composed themselves in ways that stand out to me. Arch has flown WAY under my radar, as has Frisk. If I had day-investigate, I would probably check someone who was very middling. Present, contributing, unsuspicious, but not too townie either. Probably Dsell, maybe Eevee Hard to say.

Anyway, I want to reread with a focus on individuals, but that'll happen tomorrow most likely.

[ashersky]

@Galz

Good post.  I would note that you are listed as the least scummy of the scum reads, as they are in descending order.  Your most recent post is helpful.

Eevee, joth, and Cayvie remain the scummiest to me.  Nothing of note from them to change that, but it has been the weekend.  Eevee did chime in, I've taken stands throughout, as he prefers.

[Dsell]

I'm a ridiculous pony and haven't finished the reread yet because my evening was just busy, but I'm almost done and I'll for sure be done tomorrow afternoon.

I do feel like I have some ok town reads though: Galz, ftl, Insom, and to some extent Shraeye and Ashersky (who I had a beef with earlier in the game for the silly cayvie wagon)

Of course these aren't terribly strong reads and are very liable to change, but they're what I've got. I'm saving scum reads/cases for tomorrow when I'm fully done.

[cayvie]

Here's some reread reads.

Archetype: Looks very much like town to me. If he was faking being lost early today, he was doing a very good job. He seems to have gained some focus lately.

ashersky: I don't have a handle on him. He makes statements like calling Eevee "calm and collected", that just seem odd to me (though, admittedly, I didn't may much attention to MX). Also, ash really has been after me from the start. The lack of support on that wagon kind of makes me think he doesn't have scumbuddies. If ash and shraeye are scum together, trying to wagon me, they're doing a really hamfisted job of it. I give them both more credit than that, I think. Ashersky looks better on a reread than I thought he would.

Captain_Frisk: Looks pretty scummy, really. Though he might just be bored. But affecting boredom can be a scum stratagem! I especially don't like the bit where he's like "ok time to reread" then he's like "nothing to analyze, l8rs." Seriously, seems to care more about comparing Matrix movies than playing this game.

cayvie: *begins staring contest with mirror* Oh hey, I'm kind of starting to realize that I'm pretty susceptible to flattery. People have been complimenting my play lately, and I think it's actually affecting my reads of them. Which is funny, I didn't realize that about myself.

Dsell: I think this is my first townread on him ever! Not really sure why I have one, he hasn't said much. But I do. I'm looking forward to his promised reread analysis.

Eevee: very town. Just saying a lot of things, throwing his vote around, I like that kind of play.

ftl: moderate scum. Supporting flavorclaims seems particularly scummy in this game, since we have some evidence (galz's word, but still) it's a bad idea. Also, I still contend he misrepresented jotheonah re: voltaire.

Galzria: pretty town. Though, this particular paragraph sounds like scumgalz to me:

Shraeye, you're right in your analysis of my play. I have said a lot, but a whole lot of that has been information, not analysis. If you go back and look at past games D1 though, I think you'll find this is often the case for me early in the day. I'm decent when it comes to picking out scum - above average even - and I have a tendency to lock on once I do. But up until that point, I generally find that I offer tidbits here and there of what I'm thinking. I've been called out in other games for appearing like I'm trying to skate by - but it's just the way I operate best. I have no problems if that makes you uncomfortable because it means you're trying - something scum often doesn't do genuinely.

I feel scumgalz often deflects accusations of scummy behavior by being like "that behavior is just like this other behavior I always do as town"

[Jorbles]

A couple quick hits, now that I've caught up.

shraeye:

Reread complete.  Reads are as follows.
REMOVED WALL OF TEXT
I've got to get ready to go to a bachelor party now, I'll be back tomorrow to post my analysis on the remaining players.

You did all this in the middle of a bachelor party? Hopefully it wasn't yours? Anyhow this essay removes the scum read I had on shraeye. I don't think it's in scum's interest to put this much info out there. I no longer think he's scummy.

Dsell:
No one else likes my vote on Dsell. I think he's been hanging back and playing really cautiously. Also I know he is devious because of MIV (thank you for reminding me of that whoever it was), so I don't think he would make the sort of obvious mistakes everyone else is looking for. I would happily lynch him, but since no one else seems into it I am going to swap my vote to my second favourite lynch choice. I would switch back to Dsell if other people start agreeing with me (barring some big changes to his play).

watno:
He voted for Galzria for talking about what he called fluff (flavour and non analysis things) (233, 239, 244) he then proceeded to do the same thing he had accused Galzria of (304, 336, 449 (some minor hedging on the cayvie joke here also)) for like 4 RL days. Then in 535 he goes for the ashersky wagon, in what I still think is players leaping on an incautious town player. Watno has been super lurky, and hasn't even been consistent in the one strong position he's taken. Vote: watno

[Robz888]

I think I still like my Jorbles vote, although very little has stood out to me so far this game.

[Insomniac]

I think I still like my Jorbles vote, although very little has stood out to me so far this game.

I too like my jorbles vote.

[Jorbles]

I think I still like my Jorbles vote, although very little has stood out to me so far this game.

I think I still like my Jorbles vote, although very little has stood out to me so far this game.

I too like my jorbles vote.

And I should look at my detractors too. For the record my read on Insomniac is town and my read on Robz is that he is inscrutable. I probably won't have a real read on Robz until d2, when there's a bit more info to grip onto.

[Captain_Frisk]

@Galz, regarding your RobZ case:

RobZ has a history of loud and bad (results wise) day 1 play as town - MX is the example that sticks out the most to me.  I can understand why he might want to quiet down a bit, would you really rather see that RobZ - who tunnels in on someone and dominates Day 1 discussion?

[Robz888]

@Galz, regarding your RobZ case:

RobZ has a history of loud and bad (results wise) day 1 play as town - MX is the example that sticks out the most to me.  I can understand why he might want to quiet down a bit, would you really rather see that RobZ - who tunnels in on someone and dominates Day 1 discussion?

Uh, me and everybody else. I certainly don't have a history of Day 1 reads that are much worse than anyone else. In the example you cite, I was lynched on Day 1 when I was town. So whose reads were most detrimentally bad there: me, or virtually everyone else?

[Captain_Frisk]

@Galz, regarding your RobZ case:

RobZ has a history of loud and bad (results wise) day 1 play as town - MX is the example that sticks out the most to me.  I can understand why he might want to quiet down a bit, would you really rather see that RobZ - who tunnels in on someone and dominates Day 1 discussion?

Uh, me and everybody else. I certainly don't have a history of Day 1 reads that are much worse than anyone else. In the example you cite, I was lynched on Day 1 when I was town. So whose reads were most detrimentally bad there: me, or virtually everyone else?

I'm not saying that you're out of line, the "i'm teh suck @ day 1" applies to just about everyone, because day 1 is hard

I'm just trying to understand Galz's position as to why you need to be lynched for trying a different approach in this game.

[Dsell]

Ok, I finished up.

I don't feel like I have super strong reads, but definitely some things stuck out to me more on reread.

I mentioned who I thought was looking pretty townie in my last post (although since then one of Shraeye's posts reminded me that ftl was really back-and-forth on the flavor-claim thing), so here are some other reads.

Cayvie: I defended her earlier on because people Ash and Shraeye were voting for her based on a joke post, and those were terrible votes. However, that doesn't make her any more townie. Over the course of the game ash and shraeye look more townie to me whereas I still have a neutral read on cayvie, which is a bit unusual because she nearly always reads town to me.

Robz: Took some heat early for not posting a lot, he really still hasn't posted a ton. Just not a lot of content at all. That's a bit unusual for him and because of his penchant for switching up his scum play, he looks scummy to me. Nothing that he actually has said looks very scummy to me though (except maybe his "I'm not withholding, I just have no reads" thing).

Archetype: Back and forth a tiny bit on Archetype but mostly a big neutral, I want to see more from you please.

Captain_Frisk: I guess I have a very minor town read on you, but mostly not much of anything.

Lekkit: Hardly anything. Slightly scummy? Mostly nothing.

Jorbles: Back and forth on Jorbles too. I haven't seen a reason for the vote on me aside from "He's playing cautiously" which is maybe fair but last week was really busy and I haven't posted a lot. When I have posted, I feel like I've been open about my views on things and I've had some strong views too, so I'm not sure exactly what the cautious play you're referring to is. I am having trouble with your refusal to participate in flavor-claiming. I could see it being a town thing to do or a scum thing to do, and I believe I've done similar things as both scum and (half) town. I feel ok with leaving him alone for now I guess, but I do feel like he's either going to be quite strong or quite dangerous down the road.

[Dsell]

I'll have more reads and things to say coming up in an hour and a half or so.

[Watno]

@Jorbles: What do you mean by the only strong position I have taken? As said, I don't think my reasoning I had against Galz was particularily strong, there just wasn't anything stronger at that time.

Regarding people voting for Jorbles: I don't really see your case. While I think actually being the only one not to participate in some kind of claim, anouncing to do so is something I think would be quite risky as scum.

[Insomniac]

@Jorbles: What do you mean by the only strong position I have taken? As said, I don't think my reasoning I had against Galz was particularily strong, there just wasn't anything stronger at that time.

Regarding people voting for Jorbles: I don't really see your case. While I think actually being the only one not to participate in some kind of claim, anouncing to do so is something I think would be quite risky as scum.

Alright it's my case so I'll restate it. Alot of his early posts were jokey, (not all). Which didn't really bother me until he refused to participate in a mass claim which is something that has always been true of scum. In games on f.DS refusal to participate in a mass claim has ALWAYS been done by scum town always participates even when it goes against there better judgement.

[Dsell]

PPE1: I AM SO SORRY THAT THIS POST IS ENORMOUS. PLEASE READ IT ALL ANYWAY, INCLUDING WHAT'S WITHIN QUOTES.

Man, this game is just not nearly as interesting as MXII right now, is it??

One last fairly neutral read: Watno. He actually seems kinda scummy to me, but it's really the same kind of scumminess he's had before flipping town before. So I'm wary, but my gut is telling me scum and head is telling me probably town.

Anyway. I posted my town reads, my mostly neutral reads, now for my scummier reads. And there's only two!

Jotheonah: Something feels really off here. I don't have a case like I do for my scummiest candidate, but jo's posts just ring a bit hollow this game. I agree with Shraeye who said that jo has the highest post-to-content ratio. Often on day 1, jo runs around doing a lot things, voting, making cases, even doing some town gambits. And he's nearly always town. Or SK. I haven't followed a game in which he's been mafia. So definitely some red flags are going up here when jo's being chattery but not memorable.

Which brings us to Eevee. Eevee is one who's tricky for a lot of people because he either looks always like town to them or always like scum (even though he's usually town). He's always looked town to me except the end of MIII (where he was scum) and MVII (where he was town). In this game, though, Eevee's done lots and lots of little things that seem just a little scummy to me, and they've all added up to make him pretty scummy in my eyes. I probably sound like a broken record in my games, but I'd encourage everyone to go back and reread what he's posted and tell me some of what's said doesn't seem wrong. I'm gonna list a lot of these little thing, they're not major, but they strike me as little things that I would do as scum to subtly confuse the town.

One of the first posts of the game, he agrees with someone who suggests that the numbers may mean number of people in various factions, and extends the idea a bit too.

After it was revealed that the numbers spelled out "Neo is the one." eevee asks if/suggests that it was merely a distraction from eHalc (In a game where the NAME tells us to read the flavor). Asks if Neo is relevant to game, light rolefishing. Next post, eevee suggests that eHalc is just messing with us. This all reminds me of the kind of naivety eevee affected in MIII.

Asks if we're doing RVS wrong, that people like him tend to skate through. When I was scum, if I didn't feel people were suspecting me much, I was very very tempted to post things like this, saying that I'm not getting enough scrutiny. Seems like easy town points, kinda taking one for the team.

i dont understand any of the votes i think robz is probably up to something, but see that something as likely town-aligned. Is this the kind of thing i should just let be because it benefits the town even though i dont understand it?

This post is another big one for me. In the very first RMM game I was scum and I made several such posts just saying how confused I was, even though I wasn't really. It was mostly RVS with a bit of theme, which really isn't much different from any other RVS.

Posted some town reads really early in the day. Which strikes me as something that town-eevee might do too, but still.

Eevee takes every opportunity to question little things, which isn't necessarily scummy but feels to me like he's testing the waters to see if something someone does will stick and turn into a wagon. He does this with Shraeye's "whispering" and the "possible scumslip" from cayvie. Then does the same thing with the people voting cayvie (by voting for ashersky). This is something I did too so I'm not saying that specific thing is super scummy, but so much testing of the waters feels wrong to me.

My votes are to prod people to get here, seems to work. Shouldn't maybe tell it's just a prod though, shoot.

This is pretty classic "silly little eevee" scum.

Well, don't you have the saying "the first step in fixing a problem is recognizing that there's a problem to be fixed"? I don't think I give guys who post long and often a pass as much as I used to, so maybe I'll start working on this next. 

This kinda is too.

He gets all confident good-feelings about the ashersky wagon but just drops it later and votes for Archetype instead. Specifically, he says that he thinks we're doing better at D1 because we don't go after people who are being openly scummy or making mistakes, then votes for Archetype for taking a scummy position/making a mistake. Here are the posts:

Eevee, I sort of agree that we are getting better at day 1, but that translates to not much of anything sticking out to me one way or another. Hopefully a reread will help.

We go after better candidates nowadays (the guys who play different than usual, preferably in that they try to stay in the back and never really say anything or take positions, compared to the earlier meta of lynching someone for being controversial [sadly still happens] or for making a stupid comment or a mistake).

That came out confusing, probably time to head to sleeps already. I'll be VLA for the entire tomorrow (my former room mate is moving to mexico and having a farewell party), won't be reading/posting in the next 36 hours.

PPE: @ftl
I meant why the vote?

I also really haven't put a vote on anyone, so I'll go with a Vote: ftl for now. Probably will change once things start heating up.

Couldn't resist checking the thread once more from phone and glad I didn't; this stood out as ultra-scummy to me. Seems like arhetype is setting himself up so that he can jump on any other wagon that might get rolling later. Cant quite word it clearly but myube you get what I mean? Isnt that the classiciest scum hedge behaviour ever?
Vote: archetype (before anyone jumps on me for voting for a mistake, I dont consider this a mistake but a very scummy position)

After saying it wasn't a mistake, he writes:

I also really haven't put a vote on anyone, so I'll go with a Vote: ftl for now. Probably will change once things start heating up.

Couldn't resist checking the thread once more from phone and glad I didn't; this stood out as ultra-scummy to me. Seems like arhetype is setting himself up so that he can jump on any other wagon that might get rolling later. Cant quite word it clearly but myube you get what I mean? Isnt that the classiciest scum hedge behaviour ever?
Vote: archetype (before anyone jumps on me for voting for a mistake, I dont consider this a mistake but a very scummy position)

I didn't mean to appear scummy, but honestly, I don't really see any players that stand out as scummy. I guess I just worded it in a way so that it sounds scummy.

So yes it was a misunderstanding and I could have worded it a lot better.

Saying 'i didnt mean to appear scummy' isnt the sharpest defence.. But sure, townies can make mistakes too and I won't completely crucify you for that, but let it be known I now find you the scummiest of us and for that am voting for you. Still also like ashersky though.

So...was it a mistake or not?

Well...that is my case. It grew a bit as I wrote it, too. But things just feel off here. With as long as this post is, I wish I felt more confident about this case, but it's definitely something.

PPE2: Again, Insom, when I refused to participate in a massclaim in BMV, I was half-scum, but I believe I would have done the same if I was town, so I can't really agree that it has ALWAYS been done by scum, or that town always participates.

[Dsell]

Lawlz I forgot to vote.

Vote: Eevee

[Archetype]

Dsell wanted more from me, but I don't have much to say.

I made a wording error, and Eevee jumped on it. Still stand by my vote.

I should also explain what I meant by 'heating up': I didn't mean a bandwagon heating up, but conversation heating up. Some life has been brought back into this thread so I've changed my vote to Eevee. It's starting to be less OMGUS and more scum read now though.

[Archetype]

It's starting to be less OMGUS and more scum read now though.

Forgot to say why: because of Dsell's essay above me

[ftl]

Seems pretty convincing. I'll reread eevee and maybe vote. Also, Jorbles' latest vote seemed pretty scummy too. unvote I'll put my vote back somewhere after I reread a few people

[Eevee]

@Robz
Mafia X, I tried to save you because you seemed townie to me (read you well for once). You don't feel that way here. Same applies to Frisk in VII, except he feels townie-ish here too.

@Insomniac

I'm almost tempted to vote for you, "everyone who has refused to flavorclaim has always been scum before, so it must be true for all future games too" IS NOT A GOOD ARGUMENT. I don't understand how Jorbles is not raging more about this. Other than that, I don't really mind the Jorbles case but personally I'd think the exact opposite: scum Jorbles wouldn't dare to take such a controversial position so early in day 1 (especially given how often people get lynched for that around here), the flavor claim wasn't particularly close to happening when he said that. I definitely think it's wrong to think that makes him very likely to be scum.

@Dsell
Too lazy to build exact quote trees, but I'll address your points and answer. All in all, much of your case seems to be a time travel trip back to mafia VI and such, you are accusing me of scumminess and describing how I always play (hint, I've been town in 12 games and scum in 1) as an explanation.

I didn't mean to ask if we did RVS wrong, I meant I think we are doing day 1 wrong. I've expanded on this, and it has been getting better lately.

Me being confused,
Robz was posting stuff like

Polyjuice Potion: Galzria

Now I've penetrated your defenses!

and

[
Forgive this. Crucio!: shraeye

and others seemed to be going with it and voting around based on people's reactions. Sure, I now know it was him fooling around, but you think being confused about what on earth was going on was weird/faked/scummy? If I was scum, I would probably have welcomed the chaos with open arms and kept silent if anything.

Then, I posted my town reads. Took positions, said stuff I can be held accountable for later.
The ashersky case, I'm still 100% behind it, but the case I made against archetype is also good I think, and ashersky is being more active so of two equal suspects I rather vote for arch. Doesn't matter though, moving my vote to the other later will be easier if the situation arises. How is me being good-feelings confident about the ashersky "wagon" but then "abandoning it to vote for archetype" scummy? Because I'm scum with ashersky and went for the bus and got scared, wtf? I'm still very much behind the ashersky wagon, I just thought the case on archetype would totally go unnoticed if I didnt vote too (well, it went anyways).

@archetype thing
IF HE IS TOWN, IT WAS A MISTAKE. Doing something that scummy can happen for a townie, accidentally (and that would suck). But if he is scum (and I'm voting for him, I think there is a good chance this is what happened), it's a mistake of a different kind, in that he revealed his true colors by taking a very scummy position. So, I'm voting for him, but because I think he made a different mistake than the one he is semi-claiming; took a scummy position as scum. Seriously, this feels like you are deliberately misrepresenting my case to discredit it. I think he did something scummy, he either is scum trying to get away with scummy actions or town who said something stupid. I think former is more likely.

Sorry this got long too, doublesorry for it being so long even I don't want to read it again to proof. Ask me to clarify if something is unclear!

[cayvie]

I just thought of this; it would have been more relevant earlier.

We do have an example of flavor claiming being helpful to town: BMV.

The flavor claims allowed me to use my setup-questioning ability as a de facto cop investigation.

[Lekkit]

Sooo. While rereading I stumbled upon something that made me think. I guess most of us agree that it's possible there's a Serial Killer. My personal take is that it's either 4 mafia or 3 mafia and 1 SK. There was a slightly different mechanic in RMM1, but we had a 4 player mafia, a SK variation and a cult variation. And with all the powers going around, I guess it could still be balanced with 4 members of the same team. After my reread, I'm starting to think it's more likely that there is a serial killer.

Now, if I were a SK, I would try to act as little as mafia as possible, and try my hardest to find mafia and nail them. Because that's what a town player would do. And unlike mafia, a SK isn't actually hurt by lynching a mafia member. Unless it's the last one, and even then, it's not black or white if it's good or not. Now there has been some players who have actually helped or tried to help town in my eyes. Notable persons here are Dsell, Eevee, Insomniac and shraeye. There are others, but these are the ones that stands out to me as the most helpful ones.

Amongst those there is one that has come with an interesting thought. The no lynch. What would a no lynch actually do? We all would get to use our powers once, assuming we have night powers. Then mafia would get a NK, and so would a SK. with just a NK to watch out for a SK has a higher chance of survival than a townie or a SK with a random day 1 lynch (as it could hit him). Now, I'm not saying only SK would want a no lynch, because that's not really true. However, I do find it more likely that a player who wants a no lynch day 1 is a SK than a player who is against it.

And if that fails, make sure to vote for a lynch that is better than a bad lynch, but no lynch or a good lynch is preferable.

@ftl & ash: I'm not necessarily saying we have to no lynch either like if someone looks really scummy lets lynch em but I'm not gonna worry about deadline coming up if we don't have a good lynch I can't see myself jumping on a bad wagon.

So yeah. I think it's possible that Insomniac is a serial killer. Not only has his play been aligned with that of a serial killer, but he also posted this.

My way of interpreting Neo is the one is that he is the Serial Killer. The only faction that has a single person in it.

So, Insomiacs interpretation is that "Neo" is the serial killer. The. As in there is actually one. Scumslip, anyone?

Vote: Insomniac

[Insomniac]

@Lekkit SK hunting is a scumtell.

[Eevee]

@Lekkit SK hunting is a scumtell.

What about SK hunting hunting?

[Insomniac]

@Lekkit SK hunting is a scumtell.

What about SK hunting hunting?

? If your referring to my interpretation of Neo being hunted out I was offering my interpretation not actually SK hunting.

[Lekkit]

@Ins: I know. But so is hedging, and lurking. And pretty much everyone here has done either one or both.

[Jorbles]

@Jorbles: What do you mean by the only strong position I have taken? As said, I don't think my reasoning I had against Galz was particularily strong, there just wasn't anything stronger at that time.

Regarding people voting for Jorbles: I don't really see your case. While I think actually being the only one not to participate in some kind of claim, anouncing to do so is something I think would be quite risky as scum.

I characterized your vote for Galzria as "strong" I guess I was misreading how strongly you felt, but what I think still stands is that you were voting for him for not scum hunting and primarily looking at the shape of the game and the flavour of the game. Then you didn't scum hunt and mostly commented on the flavour of the game. That combined with a hanging in the background lurky play style seems scummy to me.

Seems pretty convincing. I'll reread eevee and maybe vote. Also, Jorbles' latest vote seemed pretty scummy too. unvote I'll put my vote back somewhere after I reread a few people

I assume you mean my vote seemed scummy because I said I would gladly go back to Dsell and it looks like I'm hedging? Well it's because I would rather lynch Dsell, I am more confident in his scumminess. But since no one seems to agree with me I want to try and see if my second choice for a lynch (Watno) is a more viable candidate. I am not as confident in his scumminess, but I think it's there and I want there to be a good lynch. I'm not voting for what I think are bad lynches just because they are more likely to be lynched. My top priority at the moment is to cast suspicion on people who I think are both scummy and flying under the radar. Those people are Dsell and Watno.

On Dsell's essay on Eevee, I would recommend looking at it skeptically. I played scum in MX, and believe me it's not hard to write a big essay nitpicking why you think someone is suspicious. (admittedly you could do it as a townsperson too, but I think you'd be wiser to spread your efforts around a bit more on d1) I did it to Geolib in that game when I thought he was unlynchable and didn't take much flack for it. Time consuming yes, and I appreciate Dsell's commitment to the game, even though I think we're on different teams.

So yeah. I think it's possible that Insomniac is a serial killer. Not only has his play been aligned with that of a serial killer, but he also posted this.

My way of interpreting Neo is the one is that he is the Serial Killer. The only faction that has a single person in it.

So, Insomiacs interpretation is that "Neo" is the serial killer. The. As in there is actually one. Scumslip, anyone?

Vote: Insomniac

I think this is really grasping at straws. I don't think a SK would advocate for No Lynch. They're better off killing people as quickly as possible. If he'd been advocating No Lynch at like L-2 or something than it would seem survivalist and a little scummy, but as a Townie with maybe one vote on him advocating No Lynch in a Role Madness game seems most likely to be town play. He did have some good arguments for it, and it's possible he's scum pushing for something that would benefit town for town points, but I don't think it's likely.

@Insomniac
I'm almost tempted to vote for you, "everyone who has refused to flavorclaim has always been scum before, so it must be true for all future games too" IS NOT A GOOD ARGUMENT. I don't understand how Jorbles is not raging more about this. Other than that, I don't really mind the Jorbles case but personally I'd think the exact opposite: scum Jorbles wouldn't dare to take such a controversial position so early in day 1 (especially given how often people get lynched for that around here), the flavor claim wasn't particularly close to happening when he said that. I definitely think it's wrong to think that makes him very likely to be scum.

I am not raging because I understand that with as little as we have to go on d1 Insomniac is deciding to trust the meta case against me and just give it a shot. I know he's wrong, so I know he'll be disproved by the end of the game. That argument is terrible, but I can't disprove it at this point so I see why he might trust it. Most of our reads will reset after n1 anyways, if he still thinks its a strong case d2 than I'd think he was tunneling and call him out for it.

[Insomniac]

@Lekkit, I will say I am not what you think I am, and if I was it would still be a bad idea to try to lynch the SK day 1.

@Eevee Forgot I wanted to respond to your wanting to OMGUS me over the Jorbles thing. You should probably also note that I'm not the only experienced player who thinks I'm right ok. Robz has also voted for Jorbles, and Galz said that while he wouldn't yet he completely sees where I'm coming from.

[Eevee]

@Lekkit SK hunting is a scumtell.

What about SK hunting hunting?

? If your referring to my interpretation of Neo being hunted out I was offering my interpretation not actually SK hunting.

Joking! Idk if you remember the mafia IX morgrim hunting hunting hunting debacle.

[Eevee]

@Insomniac
As I said, I dont mind the vote on Jorbles. The case is actually not bad at all I dont think, even though Jorbles taking my side with the Dsell argument probably makes me a bit biased (cant help it). I just wanted to note that "every time someone has refused to flavor claim, they have been scum -> Jorbles is scum" is terrible logic in my opinion. Or rather, it is not very clear that refusing to flavorclaim and scumminess walk hand in hand, even though it has happened (twice?) earlier.

[Insomniac]

@Insomniac
As I said, I dont mind the vote on Jorbles. The case is actually not bad at all I dont think, even though Jorbles taking my side with the Dsell argument probably makes me a bit biased (cant help it). I just wanted to note that "every time someone has refused to flavor claim, they have been scum -> Jorbles is scum" is terrible logic in my opinion. Or rather, it is not very clear that refusing to flavorclaim and scumminess walk hand in hand, even though it has happened (twice?) earlier.

At least twice, its a day 1 case though, and as I've said
if it was just the jokey posts I wouldn't vote, if it was just the straight refusal I probably wouldn't either, it's only because we have both

[Eevee]

@Insomniac
As I said, I dont mind the vote on Jorbles. The case is actually not bad at all I dont think, even though Jorbles taking my side with the Dsell argument probably makes me a bit biased (cant help it). I just wanted to note that "every time someone has refused to flavor claim, they have been scum -> Jorbles is scum" is terrible logic in my opinion. Or rather, it is not very clear that refusing to flavorclaim and scumminess walk hand in hand, even though it has happened (twice?) earlier.

At least twice, its a day 1 case though, and as I've said
if it was just the jokey posts I wouldn't vote, if it was just the straight refusal I probably wouldn't either, it's only because we have both

That's fine, thanks for clarifying. Fwiw, I dont have a scum read on you so saying "tempted to vote" wasn't really appropriate, I just really despise statements like "I'm 99% sure Robz is scum" or "X->Y earlier, X is true now so Y has to be too" and other terrible representations of probabilities.

[Dsell]

@Insomniac
I'm almost tempted to vote for you, "everyone who has refused to flavorclaim has always been scum before, so it must be true for all future games too" IS NOT A GOOD ARGUMENT. I don't understand how Jorbles is not raging more about this. Other than that, I don't really mind the Jorbles case but personally I'd think the exact opposite: scum Jorbles wouldn't dare to take such a controversial position so early in day 1 (especially given how often people get lynched for that around here), the flavor claim wasn't particularly close to happening when he said that. I definitely think it's wrong to think that makes him very likely to be scum.

I am not raging because I understand that with as little as we have to go on d1 Insomniac is deciding to trust the meta case against me and just give it a shot. I know he's wrong, so I know he'll be disproved by the end of the game. That argument is terrible, but I can't disprove it at this point so I see why he might trust it. Most of our reads will reset after n1 anyways, if he still thinks its a strong case d2 than I'd think he was tunneling and call him out for it.

FWIW, this is pretty much exactly how I feel about your case on me. You say I play too carefully, but I'm not going to change the way I play just to make you happy. I'm not scum, hopefully your crazy tunneling scum read on me will fade when various things happen in the game to cause us to play differently (ie more information).

But on the point of being critical of my case, by all means be critical. I realize that it's just a D1 case and we've all been very wrong on D1 as townies before, so I'm not saying it's rock solid. It's just the best case I saw on my reread. But if you're looking at it just to find traces of scummy logic, that's fine too but don't look just at me.

[cayvie]

hmm. i find myself agreeing with insomniac a lot this game, which is unusual. i feel like we're usually at each other's throats.

I am not raging because I understand that with as little as we have to go on d1 Insomniac is deciding to trust the meta case against me and just give it a shot. I know he's wrong, so I know he'll be disproved by the end of the game. That argument is terrible, but I can't disprove it at this point so I see why he might trust it. Most of our reads will reset after n1 anyways, if he still thinks its a strong case d2 than I'd think he was tunneling and call him out for it.

vote: jorbles for this paragraph. i really don't like this argument. first of all, it contains an implicit assumption that jorbles is going to survive until day 2. second, it reads like an attempt to set up insomniac for a wagon day 2; "if you still think i'm scum day 2, then you have to be scum".

[Jorbles]

hmm. i find myself agreeing with insomniac a lot this game, which is unusual. i feel like we're usually at each other's throats.

I am not raging because I understand that with as little as we have to go on d1 Insomniac is deciding to trust the meta case against me and just give it a shot. I know he's wrong, so I know he'll be disproved by the end of the game. That argument is terrible, but I can't disprove it at this point so I see why he might trust it. Most of our reads will reset after n1 anyways, if he still thinks its a strong case d2 than I'd think he was tunneling and call him out for it.

vote: jorbles for this paragraph. i really don't like this argument. first of all, it contains an implicit assumption that jorbles is going to survive until day 2. second, it reads like an attempt to set up insomniac for a wagon day 2; "if you still think i'm scum day 2, then you have to be scum".

I think you're misunderstanding what I said (I left it a little ambiguous so partially my fault). What I meant to say is if after we get all the evidence of people's deaths and various reveals that roll in d2, and Insomniac still thinks that he should be voting for me solely (or at least mostly) because I refused to take part in a mass flavour claim then that's scummy. It's not totally damning, but a refusal to look at solid evidence because of a d1 hunch is pretty suspicious.

He might have other reasons to think I'm scum, which may or may not be valid. I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

(And yes I am assuming I'll be alive d2 because I see no point in planning what I'll do if I'm lynched or NKed.)

[shraeye]

ugh, it is massively hard to follow two threads while trying to keep a life outside of mafia.  I'm going to recatch up again tomorrow, and then get this thread the attention it deserves.  I'm going to be V/LA from here until tomorrow evening.

[ftl]

Man, I don't know what to think. My reads on jorbles oscillate too much. I still don't think he's scummy.

I haven't done a reread like I said I would. Sorry. I'll just go by what I remember and what has been said recently.

OK with eevee, robz, ashersky lynches. Town read on dsell, galz, I think lekkit now. Maybe cayvie. Confused read but still townish on jorb.

vote: ashersky I think

has there been a votecount recently, I want a wagon to look over

[Watno]

Archetype, why are you still saying Eevee voted you for a wording mistake even though he in fact voted you for the message you words conveyed, which was pretty clear?

What Dsell says about Eevees play i dont see as particularily scummy.

Lekkit's SK-theory seems pretty far-fetched to me.

I agree with cayvie finding Jorbles second-to-last post suspicious. Why do you think going against town-consensus is a bad argument to vote you, Jorbles? And why do you even start to go on about that hypothetical day 2 scenario?

[jotheonah]

I'm a little lost in this game. I don't suppose someone wants to give a quick reminder/summary?

[Captain_Frisk]

@Lekkit -

Interesting theory, and then the natural retorts that SK hunting is a scumtell.

The JK9++ setup (of which some of us are now intimately familiar) seems to indicate that the addition of a serial killer weakens scum.

As a former serial killer, I know that on Day 1 and 2 I was absolutely hunting scum.  I failed on my shot night 1, and on night 2 I got overparanoid about Galzria and shot him, but I was absolutely (in my sick little mind) playing as town.

You generally seem like a theory guy - is it a good idea to lynch a serial killer on day 1 - even if he full claimed? I don't know for sure, but I think I lean toward not.

Definitely something to keep an eye on though.

[Jorbles]

I agree with cayvie finding Jorbles second-to-last post suspicious. Why do you think going against town-consensus is a bad argument to vote you, Jorbles? And why do you even start to go on about that hypothetical day 2 scenario?

This is cliche, but it's like the bridge scenario. If the whole town jumped off a bridge it would still be a bad idea. If the whole town decided to flavour claim d1 I'd still think it was a bad idea. Just because it's possible that consensus could be reached on a mass flavour claim doesn't change the fact that I think it's a terrible idea. This is apparently a controversial opinion (though I don't really see why). You might not agree with my decision, but it doesn't mean I'm scum. Just because the town reaches a consensus saying something should happen doesn't mean it's actually good for the town. I know this sounds preachy (and for that I apologize), but by refusing to participate in a mass flavour claim I believe I am protecting town interests.

I don't see what's so intriguing about talking about d2. I wrote about it because it popped into my head. It's clearly hypothetical, I am aware that I could be lynched or NKed.

PPE: @Frisk-This is clearly a hypothetical, but my two cents. I think given the general success rate of d1 lynches if we had a SK claim d1 I think lynching the SK would be a good idea. It would cut the kill rate down to 1 townie per day instead of 2.

[Eevee]

I'm a little lost in this game. I don't suppose someone wants to give a quick reminder/summary?

I'll try, super skimming after being awake for 24 hours though so don't hang me if I miss something:

RVS, people think of new definitions for the acronym OMGUS. I personally liked "O Makes Galzria Understandably Snarky" the best.
Robz throws around a lot of seemingly random spells (if something weird starts to happen, we should look back and see if Robz could have caused it)
cayvie jokingly interprets flavor in a way that leads to herself being scum.
ftl's cracks the numbers in the opening post, they spell out in "Neo is the one" in ascii (don't know what that is).
A lot of people vote for "cypher", I dont know what that was all about.
At this point (Votecount 1.1), Robz is the only one with more than one vote (he has two).
shraeye asks Voltaire, Watno, Dsell and Frisk to" whisper their reads", it is debated whether shraeye was softclaiming something or not (he denies it).
Oh somewhere a couple pages back Galzria says this:

Actually, I do know that there is an above average powerful town player in this game (don't know who though), and that it will very much be in the Towns interest to protect them. So "Neo is the one." Fits that well. My point is, we should tread carefully, and pay very close attention to the flavor - even now.

---- semi end of RVS (imo) ----

Ins posts a votecount, and people (like myself) start voting for lurkers to get them to post. Voltaire still haven't posted at all.
Insomniac wonders if nolynch would be a good idea because eHalc has suggested them in RM games in the past (cayvie shows some support, others don't comment or comment that they don't like the idea).
Dsell claims he wasn't posting much because he doesn't know much about Harry Potter flavor (I didn't notice this the first time but it caught my eye now in that it could be scum making excuses / explaining his lack of contributions. To be fair, Dsell got a lot more active after being called out here.)
RVS starts to be absolutely over for everyone, ashersky makes a case against me for "not being collected" and being "too clumsy" for his liking. Drops the case after my response.
Voltaire gets up to 4 votes, Jorbles expresses concern and wants the wagon to slow down a bit.
Robz still casts random spells around, doesn't do much else.
Myself and cayvie argue Voltaire should be replaced rather than lynched, ashersky and shraeye agree.
Ftl votes for jotheonah.
cayvie suspects ftl and Insomniac are scumbuddies, because ftl in her opinion mischaracterized joth's play and voted him for doing something Insomniac was doing much more.
Robz casts some random spells.
Some discussion about the definition of the word quicklynch.
I blame Archetype for suspecting me of "going hard after lurkers" saying Joth and Ins have done it more than I have, and note to Ftl Voltaire is still L-4 (ftl was blaming jot for "trying to quicklynch early day 1").
ashersky joins the joth wagon, saying the vote isn't RVS (I personally wouldn't consider anything RVS anymore though).
Watno defends the lurkers saying "Well, there wasn't really much to talk about at the time you started wagoning them". I note there never would be anything to talk about unless people posted stuff.
Ashersky finds cayvie's earlier joke of deducting she is actually mafia scummy, and votes for her.
Insomniac posts this gem: "I don't see why people think I'm scummy, I posted post counts and voted for Voltaire who hasn't participated at all this game, people joined me and I support that too".
Voltaire replaces out.
Jorbles analyzes ashersky's cayvie-case, and in the end decides to unvote her, finding the case uncompelling.
Joth finds ashersky's last two arguments "junk", and votes for him.
shraeye jumps on the cayvie wagon, gives a long list of reasons for his "bad vibe", including how cayvie's joke felt forced (because she jumped on the 3 instances of 20 but not on the 3 instances of 65)
I jump on the ashersky wagon, saying I agree with joth in that he is trying to force cases that aren't really there.
I note that Insomniac tends to pick on tiny unimportant details in my long posts and never comment on the actual content.
Frisk finds the cayvie wagon "comical", and votes shraeye for "trying to fire up a bad wagon".


These rereads are always so enlightening (even though I didn't really read most of the posts, especially in the beginning). Some things start to make more sense when you read things again and sort of get a bigger picture! However, this already took quite long (no chance in hell I'm reading what I just wrote) and the post is also getting quite monumental, so I'll leave it at page 14 and try to do the last 10 pages tomorrow or something (or if someone wants to take over, I wouldn't mind).

[eHalcyon]

Vote Count 1.6

Archetype (1): Eevee
ashersky (3): jotheonah, Watno, ftl
Eevee (3): Archetype, ashersky, Dsell
Insomniac (1): Lekkit
Jorbles (3): Insomniac, Robz888, cayvie
Robz888 (2): shraeye, Galzria
shraeye (1): Captain_Frisk
Watno (1): Jorbles

Not voting (0): ...

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

Lynch deadline: Monday, October 8, 5:00pm MDT

[jotheonah]

hey Eevee, when you voted Archetype it was for something both Archetype and ashersky were doing, wasn't it? Why did you pick Archetype?

[Eevee]

hey Eevee, when you voted Archetype it was for something both Archetype and ashersky were doing, wasn't it? Why did you pick Archetype?

Ashersky already had a wagon, one that I could join later if I so desired. People had already noticed the things in his behavior I wanted to vote him for. Archetype had no votes on him, and I thoughy if I just quote his post and FoS him over it, people wouldn't realize how scummy I thought it was. Basically, it feels stupid to make a case against someone without voting, because then it looks like even I don't believe in the case. Here is the posts that I voted archetype over:

Archetype should post more.

I know I've been pretty busy.

Starting to get some better reads on people.

Dsell is seeming very townish to me as well as Galz.

Slightly supsicious of ftl, Insomniac, and Eevee
Neutral reads on everyone else.

I also really haven't put a vote on anyone, so I'll go with a Vote: ftl for now. Probably will change once things start heating up.

The last sentence sounds like he is preparing himself for the heat he might be getting for his (possible) future opportunistic voting. Feels like he wants to go on a record with his suspicions there because he heard that's the towny thing to do, but also wants keep the back door open so that he can contribute to any lynch he wants in the end. I seem to be the only one who interprets the post like that though, which is surprising to me.

It's worth noting I have 3 votes on me now, which makes me the largest wagon (shared with ashersky). Two of those votes are from ashersky and archetype, and came after I heavily suspected (and voted for) them and urged others to consider the case. Dsell's vote I don't really have a problem with, he seems to think he has a case (even though he seems to be falling to the trap so many others have before, blaming me for playing exactly like I always play).

[Jorbles]

It's worth noting I have 3 votes on me now, which makes me the largest wagon (shared with ashersky).

Don't forget me! I'm also in that club.

[Eevee]

It's worth noting I have 3 votes on me now, which makes me the largest wagon (shared with ashersky).

Don't forget me! I'm also in that club.

My mistake, indeed you are.

[jotheonah]

This day 1 is really dragging on. How long til deadline?

[jotheonah]

Answer to my own question: 5 days.

[Eevee]

This day 1 is really dragging on. How long til deadline?

How do you feel about things, Joth? I have no idea.

[Dsell]

This day 1 is really dragging on. How long til deadline?

How do you feel about things, Joth? I have no idea.

I was gonna ask the same question. You're the second-scummiest person I see but you've given your thoughts pretty much about just one person: ashersky. For a case that I think is pretty outdated.

Not saying you have to write a huge post listing your reads, but something else must have stuck out to you in this game.

[Robz888]

It's worth noting I have 3 votes on me now, which makes me the largest wagon (shared with ashersky).

Don't forget me! I'm also in that club.

Let's lynch this jokester.

[Dsell]

I'd love to hear more from you Robz.

[jotheonah]

I'm just overwhelmed by all the games I'm in, TBH. And by this one on particular. I think several characters around are scummy, and most of them have votes on their heads. I don't like the Eevee wagon; I have a town read on him.

I really don't like the idea that a case can become outdated. Think about the implications of that - that if someone does or says something scummy all they have to do is wait until someone else attracts attention and our votes will move to them.

I stand by my case on ashersky. He came out of the gate taking cheap shots at easy targets and has laid pretty low since then. He's still my top lynch. He hasn't done anything since to change my mind.

[Robz888]

I'm just overwhelmed by all the games I'm in, TBH. And by this one on particular. I think several characters around are scummy, and most of them have votes on their heads. I don't like the Eevee wagon; I have a town read on him.

I really don't like the idea that a case can become outdated. Think about the implications of that - that if someone does or says something scummy all they have to do is wait until someone else attracts attention and our votes will move to them.

I stand by my case on ashersky. He came out of the gate taking cheap shots at easy targets and has laid pretty low since then. He's still my top lynch. He hasn't done anything since to change my mind.

I can switch to ashersky. Vote: ashersky

[Lekkit]

I'm starting to gett a suspicion of Robz. He did read town to me before, and he still does... Kinda... The thing is. He is that he's way to good to be doing all sorts of scumminess as scum, and if it were someone else, I would definately park my vote on him. But he is flaunting his scummy behaviour so much it cannot be possible for him to be scum. Or could it? Part of me is starting to suspect that this Robz is scum Robz trying to see how far he can go as scum while being super scummy. But then, I think he is too good a player to actually make that into an experiment. So I'm not really sure where I stand on him anymore. He ought to be town, but at the same time, it's actually not unlikely that he is scum. Or possibly a Jester, trying hard to get lynched.

[Galzria]

I'm just overwhelmed by all the games I'm in, TBH. And by this one on particular. I think several characters around are scummy, and most of them have votes on their heads. I don't like the Eevee wagon; I have a town read on him.

I really don't like the idea that a case can become outdated. Think about the implications of that - that if someone does or says something scummy all they have to do is wait until someone else attracts attention and our votes will move to them.

I stand by my case on ashersky. He came out of the gate taking cheap shots at easy targets and has laid pretty low since then. He's still my top lynch. He hasn't done anything since to change my mind.

I'm in much the same boat. I'm just completely overworked right now, and keeping track of these games (even though it's only 2 for me!) is driving me nuts. I keep reading things people say and not remembering if they're coming from a scum-read or town read. >.>

I'll need to reread Ashersky, but outside of Robz, my biggest suspect is probably Jorbles... his joking nature - medium post count type play reminds me of what Robz called out in Eevee in M-III. The problem I'm having is that Robz also is calling out Jorbles, and I found Robz to be doing the exact same things earlier in this game. So to vote Jorbles I need to set aside my scum vibe from Robz. I'm torn.

PPE: And now I see that Robz has switched to Ashersky as well. I really am not sure what to think. Watno and Arche continue to be null-reads for me, so I'm not sure what to make of them. Dsell and Eevee could be scum, but I keep mixing up my reads on Dsell from M-XI here, and Eevee has only been scum once - and that was long ago. I don't know that I could catch him as scum D1 since he's SO OFTEN scummy, yet almost always town.

Joth, you yourself have said and done some things this game that read like you're just trying to fit in and not draw attention (ie. be present, but don't stand out) - but I guess I could be accused of the same, so meh. Can't really count it as a hard scum tell since it's so abundant.

I really need to dedicate time to sit down and actually re-read fully - but work's a redacted right now. So much "blah" in this game, I'm just struggling to get a handle.

[Lekkit]

You generally seem like a theory guy - is it a good idea to lynch a serial killer on day 1 - even if he full claimed? I don't know for sure, but I think I lean toward not.

I haven't done the math, but my gut tells me it's better to lynch SK day 1 if he doesn't claim. If he does he's more like a 1-shot vig that will soak up a mafia NK or he doesn't shoot (depending on who's side he want's to win more), so if he claims, he should probably not be lynched. But then again, I haven't really done the math, but even without it. Exposing a SK wouldn't really be bad, would it?

[Robz888]

I'm fine with an ashersky lynch or Jorbles lynch. I think Jorbles' joking nature is scummy. However, joking is a LOT less scummy to me in a role madness or bastard game. As people have noted, I was being really joking too. I think joking is really only scummy for the newer people, because it comes more naturally than serious analysis, but anyway, ashersky is fine, maybe better. I'll trust Jo's read for now, if he thinks it's good, since I don't have particular reason to suspect him and I respect his opinions.

I am loathe to lynch Eevee this round, unless I was overwhelmingly convinced he were scum. I do start to feel bad for people who always die first.

[Robz888]

I'm starting to gett a suspicion of Robz. He did read town to me before, and he still does... Kinda... The thing is. He is that he's way to good to be doing all sorts of scumminess as scum, and if it were someone else, I would definately park my vote on him. But he is flaunting his scummy behaviour so much it cannot be possible for him to be scum. Or could it? Part of me is starting to suspect that this Robz is scum Robz trying to see how far he can go as scum while being super scummy. But then, I think he is too good a player to actually make that into an experiment. So I'm not really sure where I stand on him anymore. He ought to be town, but at the same time, it's actually not unlikely that he is scum. Or possibly a Jester, trying hard to get lynched.

Sorry. You're basically right. I try to switch up how I act from game to game, and I try to be a little scummy on purpose. It's not to flaunt how awesome I am, it's because I'm good target for scum kill, unless the scum think that other people suspect me.

[Captain_Frisk]

Are these recent ashersky votes based on the same case that I voted Shareye for?

@Lekkit - I don't think there are jesters in this setup?

[Insomniac]

Galz I think you should hop on over to the Jorbles train, it's pretty nice here, we have smores in the front car

[Lekkit]

@C_F: Neither do I, but thinking that there couldn't possibly be would be pretty bad, IMO.

[Captain_Frisk]

I enjoy smores!  Why am I being left out? 

[Captain_Frisk]

@Lekkit, i thought for sure this would be in the intro post... but nope.  You are correct, there very well could be a jester... FOS: RobZ

[Insomniac]

I enjoy smores!  Why am I being left out?

None are left out but I haven't seen you mention a desire to get on the jorbles train.

[Captain_Frisk]

This case is that he is refusing to flavor claim?  I'm having a hard time faulting him for that.

I went along with it in murder mystery mafia (as town), and in the other games (as scum), but I've never really viewed it as hands town pro-town.

Inevitably, if everyone else goes for it, you're bullied into it anyway, and it doesn't seem like we're there yet.

Do we have an up to date votecount?

[Galzria]

@C_F: Neither do I, but thinking that there couldn't possibly be would be pretty bad, IMO.

Not really. The common thought regarding Jesters is that they're a Bastard Role, and you can't ever play to their existence unless you KNOW they are involved. Basically, if there is an unknown Jester, and that person wins, /shrug - blame the Mod. Not much you could do.

[Insomniac]

This case is that he is refusing to flavor claim?  I'm having a hard time faulting him for that.

I went along with it in murder mystery mafia (as town), and in the other games (as scum), but I've never really viewed it as hands town pro-town.

Inevitably, if everyone else goes for it, you're bullied into it anyway, and it doesn't seem like we're there yet.

Do we have an up to date votecount?

And that he has been really jokey which is a scum tell in newer players. But he said even if everyone decided to mass claim anything he wouldn't which is anti-town

[Galzria]

This case is that he is refusing to flavor claim?  I'm having a hard time faulting him for that.

I went along with it in murder mystery mafia (as town), and in the other games (as scum), but I've never really viewed it as hands town pro-town.

Inevitably, if everyone else goes for it, you're bullied into it anyway, and it doesn't seem like we're there yet.

Do we have an up to date votecount?

Less than 25 post ago:

Vote Count 1.6

Archetype (1): Eevee
ashersky (3): jotheonah, Watno, ftl
Eevee (3): Archetype, ashersky, Dsell
Insomniac (1): Lekkit
Jorbles (3): Insomniac, Robz888, cayvie
Robz888 (2): shraeye, Galzria
shraeye (1): Captain_Frisk
Watno (1): Jorbles

Not voting (0): ...

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

Lynch deadline: Monday, October 8, 5:00pm MDT

[Lekkit]

Not really. The common thought regarding Jesters is that they're a Bastard Role, and you can't ever play to their existence unless you KNOW they are involved. Basically, if there is an unknown Jester, and that person wins, /shrug - blame the Mod. Not much you could do.

To be honest, I think RM is pretty close to Bastard mafia in some regards. What I meant to say is that it doesn't necessarily have to be that Robz is either town or scum and that's why he's acting weird.

[Jorbles]

I'm fine with an ashersky lynch or Jorbles lynch. I think Jorbles' joking nature is scummy. However, joking is a LOT less scummy to me in a role madness or bastard game. As people have noted, I was being really joking too. I think joking is really only scummy for the newer people, because it comes more naturally than serious analysis, but anyway, ashersky is fine, maybe better. I'll trust Jo's read for now, if he thinks it's good, since I don't have particular reason to suspect him and I respect his opinions.

I am loathe to lynch Eevee this round, unless I was overwhelmingly convinced he were scum. I do start to feel bad for people who always die first.

I'm just quoting Robz because it's the first post I had that really explained this sentiment. Other people have echoed this. Guys yes I have been joking around, but I feel I have balanced my jokes with actual analysis of other people's play and given everyone my reads on things. If you're going to lynch me for enjoying myself during the game then my opinion is that I  think you guys are being stick in the muds. Or I would if you weren't joking around yourselves so maybe it's just a double standard because you aren't used to playing with me.

Anyhow I personally don't think the ashersky lynch is a good one. I played MX with him and thought he was scummy, and I was scum! Then I watched him play a blitz game and I thought he was scum again. He was scum neither time. I think his play style just reads scummy and players find it easier to poke at then more subtle actual scum play.

[jotheonah]

Jorbles, we're getting down to the wire. Can you give us a good lead to follow?

Also, posted this in the V/LA thread, but I'm going to be barely here tomorrow, Friday, and Saturday.

[Eevee]

I'm just overwhelmed by all the games I'm in, TBH. And by this one on particular. I think several characters around are scummy, and most of them have votes on their heads. I don't like the Eevee wagon; I have a town read on him.

I really don't like the idea that a case can become outdated. Think about the implications of that - that if someone does or says something scummy all they have to do is wait until someone else attracts attention and our votes will move to them.

I stand by my case on ashersky. He came out of the gate taking cheap shots at easy targets and has laid pretty low since then. He's still my top lynch. He hasn't done anything since to change my mind.

This post gave me a huge town read, actually biggest in the game this far. Joth genuinely seems like he's town and confused / upset that he can't help more. It seems no one else likes my archetype case (or is even interested enough to comment on it), so I'll Vote: ashersky too. I said I liked them both, it hasn't changed. L-3 now if I'm not mistaken.

When I was walking home, I thought about this game and realized I don't remember Frisk doing ANYTHING AT ALL after the RVS votes on Insomniac and me. Now I see he has posted, but mostly some theory stuff, nothing about his suspicions. As I've said numerous times, I find avoiding taking positions very scummy or bad town play, so FoS Frisk, you are either scum or should play town better.

[Captain_Frisk]

Fos: Eevee.

I've taken a position on the asher lynch, and am voting for the person I thought responsible for trying to mislead town.

Asher hunting is the new morgrim hunting.  I'll accept an argument that you want him gone because you might be afraid that he'll do something like claim doctor a day late - then thats fine.  If you're going to say you have a legit scumread on him, I'm not buying it.

[Eevee]

Fos: Eevee.

I've taken a position on the asher lynch, and am voting for the person I thought responsible for trying to mislead town.

Asher hunting is the new morgrim hunting.  I'll accept an argument that you want him gone because you might be afraid that he'll do something like claim doctor a day late - then thats fine.  If you're going to say you have a legit scumread on him, I'm not buying it.

Uh no way, I absolutely do not think he is the weak player you are painting him to be. My vote is 100% because I think he (with archetype) is most likely to be mafia.

Seriously, he forgot the exact the setup IN HIS VERY FIRST GAME in mafia X when you claimed cop like 40 minutes before the deadline (it was super hectic). He realized it overnight and convinced us you were scum the next day. I think comparing him to Morgrim for one very understandable mistake he later fixed is a very blatant mischaracterization and to be frank, rather insulting to ashersky.

[Robz888]

I agree with Eevee re:ashersky.

[eHalcyon]

Vote Count 1.7

ashersky (5): jotheonah, Watno, ftl, Robz888, Eevee
Eevee (3): Archetype, ashersky, Dsell
Insomniac (1): Lekkit
Jorbles (2): Insomniac, cayvie
Robz888 (2): shraeye, Galzria
shraeye (1): Captain_Frisk
Watno (1): Jorbles

Not voting (0): ...

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

Lynch deadline: Monday, October 8, 5:00pm MDT

[Jorbles]

Jorbles, we're getting down to the wire. Can you give us a good lead to follow?

Also, posted this in the V/LA thread, but I'm going to be barely here tomorrow, Friday, and Saturday.

Yes I already have, but I think a lot of players missed it or ignored it. I still think watno is a great lynch candidate.

watno:
He voted for Galzria for talking about what he called fluff (flavour and non analysis things) (233, 239, 244) he then proceeded to do the same thing he had accused Galzria of (304, 336, 449 (some minor hedging on the cayvie joke here also)) for like 4 RL days. Then in 535 he goes for the ashersky wagon, in what I still think is players leaping on an incautious town player. Watno has been super lurky, and hasn't even been consistent in the one strong position he's taken. Vote: watno

Go read those posts and then look at how much he's actually posted of substance (not much). I am actually a little surprised that no one, but me, has noticed this.

[Robz888]

The case on Watno certainly isn't bad.

[Eevee]

The case on Watno certainly isn't bad.

Agreed, didn't even remember he was playing and I was skimming the thread just yesterday..

[Robz888]

Yeah. Call me Jerry Joiner, but I'm fine with a Watno lynch. Maybe the most fine.

[ftl]

unvote

[Dsell]

I really don't like the idea that a case can become outdated. Think about the implications of that - that if someone does or says something scummy all they have to do is wait until someone else attracts attention and our votes will move to them.

I stand by my case on ashersky. He came out of the gate taking cheap shots at easy targets and has laid pretty low since then. He's still my top lynch. He hasn't done anything since to change my mind.

This is true, I kinda misspoke when I said the case on ashersky was "outdated." I guess what I meant is that, yeah, I was suspicious of him at one point too, because the cayvie hunting was just bad. And the cayvie hunting issue has not been forgotten, but what I meant is that (I think) ashersky has made more contributions since then and has done some things that have given me a town read. If you ask me what those specific things are, though, I'm not sure I could tell you. I'd have to go back and look, though I got a fairly townie impression on ashersky overall upon reread.

[Dsell]

Also, I think I'm going to read eevee's posts in a blitz game. He strikes me as scummy here whereas he usually strikes me as town, but I realize that he just really tends to come across scummy even as town.

I will have to look into watno, pretty sure I have like no read on him.

[jotheonah]

Alright, I think it is a little better than the ashersky wagon, although it's very possible they're both scum.

Vote: Watno since I'm going to be V/LA for a while.

[Robz888]

Vote: Watno

[cayvie]

oh man this watno thing is legit isn't it

@Jorbles: What do you mean by the only strong position I have taken? As said, I don't think my reasoning I had against Galz was particularily strong, there just wasn't anything stronger at that time.

Regarding people voting for Jorbles: I don't really see your case. While I think actually being the only one not to participate in some kind of claim, anouncing to do so is something I think would be quite risky as scum.

Archetype, why are you still saying Eevee voted you for a wording mistake even though he in fact voted you for the message you words conveyed, which was pretty clear?

What Dsell says about Eevees play i dont see as particularily scummy.

Lekkit's SK-theory seems pretty far-fetched to me.

I agree with cayvie finding Jorbles second-to-last post suspicious. Why do you think going against town-consensus is a bad argument to vote you, Jorbles? And why do you even start to go on about that hypothetical day 2 scenario?

yeah ok vote: watno

[Dsell]

Yeah that's pretty bad!

Vote: Watno L-3 I believe.

That's good enough for me for now but I'll probably still go reread all his posts later tonight.

[Captain_Frisk]

Dare I post without voting watno?

[Dsell]

Dare I post without voting watno?

Obvscum.

Vote: Captain_Frisk

[Dsell]

Ok ok not really.

Vote: Watno

[Captain_Frisk]

Ok ok not really.

Vote: Watno

You don't think 4 consecutive posts voting watno is a little strange?  Someone has to be piling on, right?

[Eevee]

Looks convincing indeed, nice catch cayvie. The speed of the wagon is more than a little worrisome though, if someone derphammers Watno before he gets hwew to defend himself.. well I'll take that as an admission of mafianess.

[Dsell]

Ok ok not really.

Vote: Watno

You don't think 4 consecutive posts voting watno is a little strange?  Someone has to be piling on, right?

It would be strange to me except that Robz and jo had been stating intent to vote for Watno for a little while, cayvie posted something that's almost a scumslip, definitely an inconsistency. I voted based on that.

[cayvie]

Yeah that's pretty bad!

Vote: Watno L-3 I believe.

That's good enough for me for now but I'll probably still go reread all his posts later tonight.

there's only 15, do it now

[Watno]

Regarding what cayvie said: I think Jorbles actually not participating in a flavour claim would be scummy, however I don't think if he was scum he would anounce that he might not participate.

To the people saying my posts have no substance: Care to show me where. I know I haven't posted much, but i think whenever I did i said everything I found worth mentioning.

@Frisk So you're saying you're playing scummily on purpose? How we are supposed to tell wether you are scum then?

[eHalcyon]

Vote Count 1.8

ashersky (2): Watno, Eevee
Eevee (2): Archetype, ashersky
Insomniac (1): Lekkit
Jorbles (1): Insomniac
Robz888 (2): shraeye, Galzria
shraeye (1): Captain_Frisk
Watno (5): Jorbles, jotheonah, Robz888, cayvie, Dsell

Not voting (1): ftl

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

Lynch deadline: Monday, October 8, 5:00pm MDT

[Galzria]

Ok ok not really.

Vote: Watno

You don't think 4 consecutive posts voting watno is a little strange?  Someone has to be piling on, right?

It would be strange to me except that Robz and jo had been stating intent to vote for Watno for a little while, cayvie posted something that's almost a scumslip, definitely an inconsistency. I voted based on that.

I've been fighting not OMGUS voting him all game. Seriously, go back and look at his first post: fluff. Now look at his second: Voting me for... not contributing? Now look at his third post: He claims that what I had said was useless fluff.

Somehow 2 + 3 = vote Galzria, even though 1 was what he was accusing me of, and 2 is just wrong!

Nice job deciphering.
Some tries: Neo, get us out of here
Clean Hufflepuff Common Room

what is going on

is this all fluff

Yes. I've tried to steer the conversation away from fluff and random RVS crap - and we keep seeming to do well - and then Robz comes along casting spells everywhere.

So I'm answering fluff with fluff.

Where did you try to steer the conversation away from fluff and RVS? vote Galzria

@shraeye I think there is a powerful scum character, because this is Role Madness. Regarding factions, i have no idea, but it guess its town + mafia  (+maybe serial killer)

Where did you try to steer the conversation away from fluff and RVS? vote Galzria

He's one of the first players to jump on the numbers in the posts. Then he did make some jokes, but everyone is allowed to do that at first.  He talks about flavour affecting the game in #174, then admits to knowledge of "neo" in #184.  There is definitely content to his posts, whether or not one thinks that was a good move for town or not.  (I think it's a risky move, but still benefits town more--to quote Galz "It's rather common that they have a better understanding of what's going on than town. By making that a public statement, all it does is level the playing field some for what the town knows.")

I read his posts, thank you. However, the things you pointed out are talking about fluff

---

@Jorbles: I don't have a strong reasoning, but I think he was gloryfieing (pretty sure thats not the right way to spell this) and I don't have a strong reasoning for another vote either.

Again, his reasoning for voting me was that I was "Glorifying" my work in diminishing RVS - which I think is absolutely and verifiably false.

---

His very next post: More tunneling:

I think nolynch is not quite as bad as in a regular game, but we should still try to avoid it. For sure we shouldn't decide to do it early in the day, since we lose even more information that way.

I dont think a Robz lynch will lead us, I rather have the feeling people are trying to get an easy wagon going.

There were only two votes on Robz, so "people are trying to get an easy wagon going" was obviously rather directed.

---

Anyway. Not voting him because I don't feel my read on him is clear, based on the ridiculous accusations he's made against me, and the tunneling he's had. OMGUS is not a good enough reason, and any case I see presented on him looks a little too sweet because of my wanting to OMGUS - so I don't think I'm a fair judge. However, it's not a lynch I would cry over.

[Galzria]

Yeah that's pretty bad!

Vote: Watno L-3 I believe.

That's good enough for me for now but I'll probably still go reread all his posts later tonight.

there's only 15, do it now

lol - I just quoted 1/3 of his posts.

[Captain_Frisk]

@Frisk So you're saying you're playing scummily on purpose? How we are supposed to tell wether you are scum then?

I don't remember saying something to this effect, but if you quote something for me, I'll do my best to respond I guess.

[Captain_Frisk]

Somehow 2 + 3 = vote Galzria

That math seems right to me?

[Dsell]

@Frisk So you're saying you're playing scummily on purpose? How we are supposed to tell wether you are scum then?

I don't remember saying something to this effect, but if you quote something for me, I'll do my best to respond I guess.

I think maybe he meant to @Robz? Who was talking earlier about acting a little scummy on purpose. But I'm not sure.

[Captain_Frisk]

RobZ has allegedly intentionally acted scummy in the past as town.  I remember him saying something to that effect in M7 when he was NK'd night 1 as jailkeeper.

[Watno]

@Galz
My problem wasn't that you posted fluff, but that you claimed you did

I've tried to steer the conversation away from fluff and random RVS crap

which i didn't see you doing

@Frisk Sorry, i actually meant Robz. Sry for the confusion:

Sorry. You're basically right. I try to switch up how I act from game to game, and I try to be a little scummy on purpose. It's not to flaunt how awesome I am, it's because I'm good target for scum kill, unless the scum think that other people suspect me.

[Lekkit]

Watno, do you think the asher wagon was a good wagon? Would he be your prime lynch candidate? If so why? If not, who is?

[Watno]

Obviously, I was/am on that wagon. I stated my reasons here. He is still my lynch candidate at the moment.

[Jorbles]

Obviously, I was/am on that wagon. I stated my reasons here. He is still my lynch candidate at the moment.

I think there's something wrong with that link.

[Watno]

Oops, forgot adding the link http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4679.msg113760#msg113760

[Archetype]

I'm comfortable with a Watno lynch, but I agree with C_F that the votes accumulated a little too quickly.

However, I'll Vote: Watno because this D1 is too long

[Watno]

FOS Archetype: I think saying "I dont think this is good, but ill still do it" is quite scummy

[jotheonah]

Obviously, I was/am on that wagon. I stated my reasons here. He is still my lynch candidate at the moment.

I think there's something wrong with that link.

I think there's something wrong with this wagon. Nobody whatsoever is coming to Watno's defense. But that does seem like a stupid reason to unvote. But it does worry me.

[ftl]

Rereading watno with an is-he-scum eye. Encouraged by the only-15-posts to reread. Actually did it!

@shraeye I think there is a powerful scum character, because this is Role Madness. Regarding factions, i have no idea, but it guess its town + mafia  (+maybe serial killer)

He said that earlier. That might be a scumminess indicator because why would he know anything about a powerful scum character?

Or maybe I'm grasping at straws to add more reasoning to a likely lynch.

He also seems to start a large number of posts with "I don't think that..." disagreeing with what people say.

I suppose nothing he's said strikes me as townish so I don't mind a wat lynch, but don't see  a better one to aim for. Maybe robz for being inscrutable.

[Archetype]

FOS Archetype: I think saying "I dont think this is good, but ill still do it" is quite scummy

I didn't say lynching you is a bad thing, I just thought that the speed in which it got going was too fast.

[Eevee]

Obviously, I was/am on that wagon. I stated my reasons here. He is still my lynch candidate at the moment.

I think there's something wrong with that link.

I think there's something wrong with this wagon. Nobody whatsoever is coming to Watno's defense. But that does seem like a stupid reason to unvote. But it does worry me.

I agree, but on the other hand the case is so compelling his partners may as well have given up and be leading the charge now. I do have a bit of a soft spot for Watno because he defended me against Dsell's accusations, so that combined with the mindblowing velocity of the wagon has me liking both ashersky and archetype (what was that post again!?) more as lynch targets. Can't really blame anyone for voting Watno though I guess..

[Galzria]

Obviously, I was/am on that wagon. I stated my reasons here. He is still my lynch candidate at the moment.

I think there's something wrong with that link.

I think there's something wrong with this wagon. Nobody whatsoever is coming to Watno's defense. But that does seem like a stupid reason to unvote. But it does worry me.

You really think scum would jump at the chance to defend their buddy? And what happens if he gets lynched anyway and flips scum? I'm not on the wagon, but seriously, I've seen the above argument made in the past and it's terrible. Scum generally don't go around being all buddy-buddy and defending one another. If a scum gets in trouble, he's generally on his own to fight the wagon off. That way if he looks to be going down, bussing can happen without raising eyebrows.

[Watno]

@ftl I said in that very post you quoted why i believe there is a powerful scum role.

[cayvie]

Obviously, I was/am on that wagon. I stated my reasons here. He is still my lynch candidate at the moment.

I think there's something wrong with that link.

I think there's something wrong with this wagon. Nobody whatsoever is coming to Watno's defense. But that does seem like a stupid reason to unvote. But it does worry me.

frisk is, kinda.

[Lekkit]

Obviously, I was/am on that wagon. I stated my reasons here. He is still my lynch candidate at the moment.

So basically, you think ashersky is the scummiest because he got a scum vibe from Eevee?

What Galz says about scum not wanting to defend each other is basically what I was thinking when the wagon formed an nobody stepped up. But then I realised that Watno has been so quiet that it's really possible that nobody has gotten any town reads on him. I haven't. But I haven't really found him scummy either. I think it's highly possible that he is scum, and if he is town a flip would probably help us a lot.

I'm totally willing to vote for him, but I would like to hear some more input from the other players. Especially those who aren't voting.

[Watno]

No, ashersky is scumiest because he got a scum vibe because of a statement he agrees with. (That part is important)

[Dsell]

I'm kinda sorta having a misgiving about watno. I realized when rereading his posts that I was misreading one of those posts cayvie quoted, which made it look a lot worse that it *might* be. Here's the post:

@Jorbles: What do you mean by the only strong position I have taken? As said, I don't think my reasoning I had against Galz was particularily strong, there just wasn't anything stronger at that time.

Regarding people voting for Jorbles: I don't really see your case. While I think actually being the only one not to participate in some kind of claim, anouncing to do so is something I think would be quite risky as scum.

But later he said:

Regarding what cayvie said: I think Jorbles actually not participating in a flavour claim would be scummy, however I don't think if he was scum he would anounce that he might not participate.

So maybe what he MEANT in that first quote was:

Regarding people voting for Jorbles: I don't really see your case. While I think actually being the only one not to participate in some kind of claim is scummy, anouncing to do so is something I think would be quite risky as scum.

And that actually makes some sense. Still, I think he hasn't made very many contributions and is probably one of the scummier people here. But this does make me a teensy bit less comfortable with my vote. 'specially since I was putting a lot of stock into the two posts where it totally looks like he flip-flops.

[Watno]

Thats in fact what i meant to say there. Maybe i should read my posts before submitting 

[Eevee]

I wouldn't expect anyone to come his defense, however I think it's unlikely his scum partners would vote for him like that. So if Watno gets lynched and flips mafia, the wagoners do look townier than they did before (ldo).

PPE: new posts, writing this twoliner took a while because I kind of forgot to hit send.

[Captain_Frisk]

I guess you should go give Dsell some +1s for defending you far better than you have been so far

[Dsell]

Gah. I just shot down my own best reason for voting for him.

[ashersky]

As mentioned in V/LA was moving, have finally arrived in Oz.  intermittent Internet availability for a few days, I think.

Quickly caught up here, though, and can share my thoughts on Watno.  I had a null read previously, I think, he hadn't really stuck out to me, anyway.  Pressure has brought him out of the shadows, which I think can be seen as scummy.  No surprise help hasn't come his way, since no one was able to develop a town read early on and I think his scum buddies wouldn't risk it now.

I am good with a Watno lynch, and I do think his flip/wagon composition, etc. would be useful on D2.

As for the case on me, I could see how I could read slightly scummy, but I did with the doc PR in MX, if you recall.  I can't be certain I will be around to claim if the wagon switched back to me, but really, I am town guys.

I'll plant a Vote: Watno in case I can't get back on in a timely fashion.

Oh, still have slight scum reads on Eevee, Cayvie, and Joth, in case I die, which hopefully isn't likely.

[cayvie]

That's L-1, right?

[cayvie]

Mmm, unvote, I'm getting a bad feeling.

[Dsell]

Mmm, unvote, I'm getting a bad feeling.

Yeah I don't have a great feeling about this either. But I don't know where to go from here. I at the very least do think this lynch would be pretty informational. But I think he's scummy too. Just not as much as I initially thought.

[ftl]

If everyone's doing this lynch because it's informational, let's not do it. Informational lynches don't give any information.

[ftl]

Oh, lol, just looked back at the vote count. I guess it's watno or nothing. Well, better than nothing I guess. I'll hammer if I need to.

[Insomniac]

Oh, lol, just looked back at the vote count. I guess it's watno or nothing. Well, better than nothing I guess. I'll hammer if I need to.

Vote: ftl

[Eevee]

I dont support the Watno lynch, it's too much (many) too soon (fast). For once I agree with Insomniac, saying we don't have time to go after anyone else is utterly ridiculous. There is plenty of time! Just look at how fast this wagon formed..

[Galzria]

Oh, lol, just looked back at the vote count. I guess it's watno or nothing. Well, better than nothing I guess. I'll hammer if I need to.

Vote: ftl

Vote: ftl

This is scummier than Robz 'I should live because I'm better later'.

Also, I'm exhausted tonight - so don't ask for more from me now.  I'll expand tomorrow.

[ftl]

wait, how is preferring a watno lynch to no lynch scummy?

[Robz888]

wait, how is preferring a watno lynch to no lynch scummy?

I don't think that's scummy. Somebody gotta die.

[cayvie]

wait, how is preferring a watno lynch to no lynch scummy?

because those are patently not the only options, and your post presumed that they were.

Oh, lol, just looked back at the vote count. I guess it's watno or nothing. Well, better than nothing I guess. I'll hammer if I need to.

[ftl]

Well, yeah, I looked back at the vote count, and everyone else was at like 1 or 2 votes, and ash and someone else had just said that they'd be v/la until the deadline. (just checked the v/la thread - joth and robz). So didn't seem likely that anybody else would suddenly appear as a viable lynch between now and then.

I thought about trying to start or restart a new wagon, but I didn't have any particularly good case to make against anyone.

[Eevee]

wait, how is preferring a watno lynch to no lynch scummy?

I don't think that's scummy. Somebody gotta die.

4 days left. ftl preferred Watno lynch also to lynch of someone else, even though he doesn't find him scummy. Three guys V/LA, but they are all coming back before the deadline and it's not like casting a vote takes that long. I do not like that, but think it can just as well be the type of a "townie mistake" we often overpunish people for, because I don't think scum would be that obvious.

[Jorbles]

wait, how is preferring a watno lynch to no lynch scummy?

I don't think that's scummy. Somebody gotta die.

4 days left. ftl preferred Watno lynch also to lynch of someone else, even though he doesn't find him scummy. Three guys V/LA, but they are all coming back before the deadline and it's not like casting a vote takes that long. I do not like that, but think it can just as well be the type of a "townie mistake" we often overpunish people for, because I don't think scum would be that obvious.

The watno lynch did get going really quickly, but I think its just as possible that scum are throwing him under the bus for playing too scummily and he's a team mate as they are for lynching a townie with a strong case against him. In fact scum might be even more inclined to vote for their own if they think it's a foregone conclusion that he'll be lynched so they can try and get some town cred for being on the lynch instead of defending him. I'm certainly not switching to ftl over one flippant remark.

[Eevee]

wait, how is preferring a watno lynch to no lynch scummy?

I don't think that's scummy. Somebody gotta die.

4 days left. ftl preferred Watno lynch also to lynch of someone else, even though he doesn't find him scummy. Three guys V/LA, but they are all coming back before the deadline and it's not like casting a vote takes that long. I do not like that, but think it can just as well be the type of a "townie mistake" we often overpunish people for, because I don't think scum would be that obvious.

The watno lynch did get going really quickly, but I think its just as possible that scum are throwing him under the bus for playing too scummily and he's a team mate as they are for lynching a townie with a strong case against him. In fact scum might be even more inclined to vote for their own if they think it's a foregone conclusion that he'll be lynched so they can try and get some town cred for being on the lynch instead of defending him. I'm certainly not switching to ftl over one flippant remark.

I'm not advocating switching to ftl if that's what you are implying. I said I disagree with him we don't have time for new targets, that's all. I even voiced concern about voting people for "mistakes like that, because I assume scum wouldn't dare to be so obvious" if you actually read my post. I'm very much behind both ashersky and archetype lynches still, wouldn't oppose yours really (don't have a particular scumread but you are being pretty suspect. OTOH you were less suspect when you were actually mafia in X so there is that).

Why is no one commenting on the archetype case, is it really that uncompelling? Should I remind you of my reasons?

[Dsell]

Why is no one commenting on the archetype case, is it really that uncompelling? Should I remind you of my reasons?

Actually, yes, please do. I'm open to a different case but don't have time to review his posts right now. He was one of my pretty much null reads, I believe. Watno was slightly scummy, then really scummy, then only somewhat scummy when I realized that he just typo'd.

[Eevee]

Why is no one commenting on the archetype case, is it really that uncompelling? Should I remind you of my reasons?

Actually, yes, please do. I'm open to a different case but don't have time to review his posts right now. He was one of my pretty much null reads, I believe. Watno was slightly scummy, then really scummy, then only somewhat scummy when I realized that he just typo'd.

I'll do it later tonight, too busy now.

[Jorbles]

wait, how is preferring a watno lynch to no lynch scummy?

I don't think that's scummy. Somebody gotta die.

4 days left. ftl preferred Watno lynch also to lynch of someone else, even though he doesn't find him scummy. Three guys V/LA, but they are all coming back before the deadline and it's not like casting a vote takes that long. I do not like that, but think it can just as well be the type of a "townie mistake" we often overpunish people for, because I don't think scum would be that obvious.

The watno lynch did get going really quickly, but I think its just as possible that scum are throwing him under the bus for playing too scummily and he's a team mate as they are for lynching a townie with a strong case against him. In fact scum might be even more inclined to vote for their own if they think it's a foregone conclusion that he'll be lynched so they can try and get some town cred for being on the lynch instead of defending him. I'm certainly not switching to ftl over one flippant remark.

I'm not advocating switching to ftl if that's what you are implying. I said I disagree with him we don't have time for new targets, that's all. I even voiced concern about voting people for "mistakes like that, because I assume scum wouldn't dare to be so obvious" if you actually read my post. I'm very much behind both ashersky and archetype lynches still, wouldn't oppose yours really (don't have a particular scumread but you are being pretty suspect. OTOH you were less suspect when you were actually mafia in X so there is that).

Why is no one commenting on the archetype case, is it really that uncompelling? Should I remind you of my reasons?

Actually sorry you're right. You do tend to advocate against voting based on supposed scumslips. I should have read your post more thoroughly. I don't think archetype has been particularly scummy, but I am interested in rehearing the case when you get the time.

I agree that we have time to build more wagon's if we want (even though I think watno is a good candidate for a lynch), which is why I'm happy to keep my vote on him.

[eHalcyon]

Vote Count 1.9

ashersky (2): Watno, Eevee
ftl (2): Insomniac, Galzria
Insomniac (1): Lekkit
Robz888 (1): shraeye
shraeye (1): Captain_Frisk
Watno (6): Jorbles, jotheonah, Robz888, Dsell, Archetype, ashersky

Not voting (2): cayvie, ftl

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

Lynch deadline: Monday, October 8, 5:00pm MDT

[Eevee]

Looking at the vote count, an interesting note; the entire wagon that was on me (Dsell, archetype and ashersky) jumped on Watno, without anyone voting in between too. Don't know if that means anything but caught my eye (so don't read this as me seeing a scum trio, although it should be obvious I think there is scum betweeen them).

[Captain_Frisk]

Why is no one commenting on the archetype case, is it really that uncompelling? Should I remind you of my reasons?

It isn't an especially compelling case. 

This is the one?

I also really haven't put a vote on anyone, so I'll go with a Vote: ftl for now. Probably will change once things start heating up.

Couldn't resist checking the thread once more from phone and glad I didn't; this stood out as ultra-scummy to me. Seems like arhetype is setting himself up so that he can jump on any other wagon that might get rolling later. Cant quite word it clearly but myube you get what I mean? Isnt that the classiciest scum hedge behaviour ever?
Vote: archetype (before anyone jumps on me for voting for a mistake, I dont consider this a mistake but a very scummy position)

Just did a quick post count check - and it looks like we're all relatively in the middle.  Archetype and watno are the low posters in the 20's, but most look to be in the 30's to 50's.

The watno case does seem to be the most viable case out there, even if I still like Shraeye better, it seems that nobody else likes it.  Something about the speed that it grew creeps me out though.

Insomniac / Galz: is there more to the ftl case other than this:

Oh, lol, just looked back at the vote count. I guess it's watno or nothing. Well, better than nothing I guess. I'll hammer if I need to.

[Insomniac]

Why is no one commenting on the archetype case, is it really that uncompelling? Should I remind you of my reasons?

It isn't an especially compelling case. 

This is the one?

I also really haven't put a vote on anyone, so I'll go with a Vote: ftl for now. Probably will change once things start heating up.

Couldn't resist checking the thread once more from phone and glad I didn't; this stood out as ultra-scummy to me. Seems like arhetype is setting himself up so that he can jump on any other wagon that might get rolling later. Cant quite word it clearly but myube you get what I mean? Isnt that the classiciest scum hedge behaviour ever?
Vote: archetype (before anyone jumps on me for voting for a mistake, I dont consider this a mistake but a very scummy position)

Just did a quick post count check - and it looks like we're all relatively in the middle.  Archetype and watno are the low posters in the 20's, but most look to be in the 30's to 50's.

The watno case does seem to be the most viable case out there, even if I still like Shraeye better, it seems that nobody else likes it.  Something about the speed that it grew creeps me out though.

Insomniac / Galz: is there more to the ftl case other than this:

Oh, lol, just looked back at the vote count. I guess it's watno or nothing. Well, better than nothing I guess. I'll hammer if I need to.

A bit, I'll put somethiing together in a bit here. Busy at work ATM.

[Eevee]

Archetype has 20 posts.

1st Wonders what's the importance of letters in the code of the opening post.
2nd Jokes about the meaning of OMGUS
3rd Supports random lynch:

Random lynch worked well in the last Blitz Game (actually really well! D1 scum lynch ftw!)

I don't want to be the one to lead the random lynch though, any leaders/suggestions for lynch targets?

4th Approves of shraeye's joke post and starts having some 2nd thoughts about random lynch.
5th +1's Joth's brilliant OMGUS-definition.
6th Some more OMGUS-definition +1'ing, announces will be gone for the day.
7th In my eyes the first actual content, quoted in full below:

Finally online. Thanks for the prod/vote Eevee.

My thoughts:

shraeye:  Seems a little scummy. But then again, he always does
cayvie: Have a god town read on her.
Robz: His spellcaster is strange. But I suspect he's just having fun. But Robzs strategy as Mafia in Blitz mafia was to do an act no scum would do.
Jorbles: First game with him. Seems very town.
jotheonah: His mod confirmation thing seems strange, but he seems town.
Insomniac: I dont agree with lurker lynching. Some people are V/LA, and others base there playstyle around not talking. His arguments with others do sem pro town though.
Voltaire: No post, no read. Get in here!
Eevee: Seems slightly scummy this game with trying to lynch lurkers.
ftl: slightly scummy. Need to get a better read.

I dont have a good enough read on anyone else, bjt I agree a lot with what Galz is saying.

The Dementors business scares me, and makes me think there are 4 Mafia. Maybe 2 factions. Probably a serial killer too.

Note, both Joth and Insomniac were going after lurkers much harder than I was, so the reason for suspecting me was either double standards or fabricated.

8th Thanks me for answering his suspicions and says I'm "definitely not as scummy anymore".
9th Robz suggests we lynch the biggest lurker, archetype says "ok" and votes for Robz.
10th .. and immediately unvotes saying he was joking. Says "cayvie's 'joke' could be a scum slip. She's a good player and could have made that joke to make her appear less scummy."
That looks really weird to me, but okay.
11th

I dont really care if we flavor claim, but my role has nothing to do with Harry Potter.

I also oppose 'no lynch', for the same reason as C_F said. We'd just be prolonging RVS.

Still no strong scum reads on anyone, this game has been kind of slow

So, he changed his mind about random lynch. Not a big deal I guess, although he could have mentioned he used to think differently.
12th

I wasnt approving of flavor claiming, I was just wondering if Galz (I think thats who) and I are the only ones without HP/Avatar/Matrix roles.

Im not trying to rolefish, dont feel obliged to tel me, bit I'm just curious if the original flavor has nothing to dlo with our roles.

Hedging much? He posts rarely, and half of the posts are him saying "I didn't mean what I said earlier, I don't really care."
13th Apologizes for posting so rarely, says he has better reads now, including town reads on Dsell and Galzria, is slightly suspicious of ftl, Insomniac and me. Follows by the infamous "I also really haven't put a vote on anyone, so I'll go with a Vote: ftl for now. Probably will change once things start heating up." Why would a townie preface possibly changing his vote like that? I would think townies only worry about trying to have their vote on mafia?
14th

I didn't mean to appear scummy, but honestly, I don't really see any players that stand out as scummy. I guess I just worded it in a way so that it sounds scummy.
So yes it was a misunderstanding and I could have worded it a lot better.

HE DIDNT MEAN TO APPEAR SCUMMY. He tries to mischaracterize my case saying it was just a misunderstanding, which I do not think it is.
15th cayvie asks him why he votes for ftl, he answers saying "I find him the most scummy" but in the next sentence says "Now that I think I have a better scum read on people, I'm going to change: Vote: Eevee" It's like d'uh, obviously you vote for scumminess, the question was WHAT ABOUT his play seems scummy to you.
16th ftl asks what arch find scummy about me. Arch answers "voting for me for simple wording error + OMGUS".
These are not valid reasons to vote! I wasn't voting for him for a wording error, and OMGUS is a lol reason to JUSTIFY a vote with (after RVS). Voting for people for fabricated / nonexistent reasons is super scummy.
17th Comments that even though Dsell wanted more from him, he doesn't have much to say. Says the conversation getting more active has shifted his vote on me to be more of a scumread than OMGUS.. actually I'll just quote the post because it's an excellent example of a typical archetype post: they are rare and he doesn't say anything!

Dsell wanted more from me, but I don't have much to say.

I made a wording error, and Eevee jumped on it. Still stand by my vote.

I should also explain what I meant by 'heating up': I didn't mean a bandwagon heating up, but conversation heating up. Some life has been brought back into this thread so I've changed my vote to Eevee. It's starting to be less OMGUS and more scum read now though.

18th Clarifies Dsell's long case against me is why his case is now less OMGUS and more of a scum read.
19th:

I'm comfortable with a Watno lynch, but I agree with C_F that the votes accumulated a little too quickly.

However, I'll Vote: Watno because this D1 is too long

Look at the reasons he has for his votes!!
20th:

FOS Archetype: I think saying "I dont think this is good, but ill still do it" is quite scummy

I didn't say lynching you is a bad thing, I just thought that the speed in which it got going was too fast.

That was all the post he has made in this game (!!). Vote archetype Seriously guys.. the dude has posted less than minimal content, and is constantly voting for people for reasons that are fabricated or nonexistent.

[Dsell]

That actually looks like a pretty good case. Vote: Archetype

I did think it was sorta weird when he cited my case against you, eevee, as why he found you scummy. I get it but it seemed weird.

So for now I'm willing to say that I was probably wrong about eevee.

[ftl]

Better than watno. Vote: archetype

I'd had a nullish read on him before but I guess that was 'cause I didn't remember anything that he said that was particularly scummy.

[Insomniac]

FTL

Post @ September 24, 2012, 02:31:47 pm
Jokingly votes Cypher

Post @ September 24, 2012, 03:08:16 pm
Complains that Galz is rolefishing by revealing a small part of Galz's own role

Post @ September 24, 2012, 11:15:11 pm
Goes back to joke vote for Robz

Next post he votes for crickets beacuse its quiet but in the same post revotes robz because why not

Cayvie accuses him of distancing himself from me with his post @  September 25, 2012, 07:32:32 pm, where he votes joth for voting voltaire when in fact I started that wagon and other people had jumped on it too why single out joth?

Post @ September 26, 2012, 03:59:21 pm
Votes Robz again...provides analysis of other players but votes robz anyways

Post @ September 27, 2012, 08:03:25 pm
Tries to distance himself from wanting a flavour claim but also talks about it in a way that might make it happen.

Post @ September 27, 2012, 08:37:50 pm
A lie, it side claiming and seat claiming DID help town more than mafia in Ozle's BMMMM (he says it didnt)

Post @ September 27, 2012, 09:38:22 pm
Appologizes for bringing up the mass claim because people say it seemed bad and called him out on it.

Post @ September 28, 2012, 06:13:12 pm
Votes Jo again gives no reasons why

When asked why he responds with a post @ September 28, 2012, 06:20:52 pm Giving no reason for voting jo just reasons for not voting the way he was.

Post @ September 28, 2012, 06:33:37 pm
Finally gives reason for voting jo, it was because he looked over the player list and had a gut feeling that jo was scummy (NOTE HE DID NOT SAY HE REREAD)

Post @ October 01, 2012, 07:18:49 pm
Listens to ARCHETYPES case on Eevee but Archetypes case is Dsells essay post on Eevee says Jorbles also seems scummy, at the time Jorbles and Eevee were the big wagons.

Post @ October 02, 2012, 07:02:32 pm
Gives feelings on players votes ASH, but this seems to be outta the blue as he hasn't mentioend ash at all yet. Claims ok with Robz/Eevee/Ash lynch


The infamous watno or nothing post, when we still have a bunch of time, ftl hadn't mentioned watno up until this point either.


PPE: Now he's voting for archetype after listening to one of archetypes cases (on Eevee) and not ever talking about it either.

Ftl just seems a little bit too wagon happy, except he never did vote for watno, he has been very happy to lynch just about anyone

[Captain_Frisk]

Funny, I was about to write the same thing about DSell, although without that level of research.

[jotheonah]

At the risk of also appearing, wagon-happy, I do think I like Vote: ftl better. Because I know he's capable of better play than this, and I'm not as familiar with Watno's town meta, but I do recall seeing him do some things in BMV (when I knew he was town) that raised my eyebrow.

[ftl]

Post @ September 24, 2012, 11:15:11 pm
Goes back to joke vote for Robz

Next post he votes for crickets beacuse its quiet but in the same post revotes robz because why not

Post @ September 26, 2012, 03:59:21 pm
Votes Robz again...provides analysis of other players but votes robz anyways

I don't think my robz votes were jokes, I didn't like all his spellstuff and it seemed like he was talking to avoid being lurky but not saying anything.

[Jorbles]

Funny, I was about to write the same thing about DSell, although without that level of research.

I was thinking that you could also say that Dsell has been wagon happy, but now that I've been shamed by all this research I'm going to go take a look at who has actually been the most wagon happy. (The results may be a few hours coming.)

[shraeye]

oh man, I keep trying to catch up so that I can actually weigh in on new developments, but things are moving too fast.  Here's my surface level reaction in 15 words or less:
Dislike watno wagon
archetype worth reread
ftl maybe scummier than robz

[shraeye]

I'll be back with more too-long-posty-shraeye presence tonight, I've got maybe 1.5 hours after work, and 2 hours after a tennis match.  Work should theoretically be done, but playing is much more fun.

[Insomniac]

Post @ September 24, 2012, 11:15:11 pm
Goes back to joke vote for Robz

Next post he votes for crickets beacuse its quiet but in the same post revotes robz because why not

Post @ September 26, 2012, 03:59:21 pm
Votes Robz again...provides analysis of other players but votes robz anyways

I don't think my robz votes were jokes, I didn't like all his spellstuff and it seemed like he was talking to avoid being lurky but not saying anything.

*crickets*
Vote: crickets

Actually, back to Vote: Robz888 because why not

[Eevee]

Excited about this game (mostly because I really think I've found scum), so doing post counts while waiting for others to post. This includes pre-game.

Eevee: 82
Insomniac: 57
Robz: 56
Galria: 54
Dsell: 49
shraeye: 47
cayvie 46
Jorbles: 44
Jotheonah: 44
ftl: 41
ashersky: 38
Captain_Frisk: 38
Archetype: 23
Watno: 23
Lekkit: 16 (+4 pregame posts from Voltaire)

[Insomniac]

Interesting I thought my post count was probably much lower.

[eHalcyon]

Excited about this game (mostly because I really think I've found scum), so doing post counts while waiting for others to post. This includes pre-game.

Eevee: 82
Insomniac: 57
Robz: 56
Galria: 54
Dsell: 49
shraeye: 47
cayvie 46
Jorbles: 44
Jotheonah: 44
ftl: 41
ashersky: 38
Captain_Frisk: 38
Archetype: 23
Watno: 23
Lekkit: 16 (+4 pregame posts from Voltaire)

eHalcyon: 44 (including this one)
Voltgloss: 6

Man, Volt sure is lurking hard.  And half of his posts have just been images.  Very scummy.

[Voltgloss]

Man, Volt sure is lurking hard.  And half of his posts have just been images.  Very scummy.

Lynch all lurkers

Volt: Votegloss

[Eevee]

Interesting I thought my post count was probably much lower.

I recall Frisk accounted for pregame in his post counts, so if he wants to correct mine to reflect that it would be helpful. Also the usual caveats obviously apply, Robz's random spells and my post count clarifications count as one a post as much as shraeye's walls of text do.

[Captain_Frisk]

Interesting I thought my post count was probably much lower.

I recall Frisk accounted for pregame in his post counts, so if he wants to correct mine to reflect that it would be helpful. Also the usual caveats obviously apply, Robz's random spells and my post count clarifications count as one a post as much as shraeye's walls of text do.

I never account for pregame in mine.  I'm too lazy, and I never understood people who are all fired up about the discrepancy.  I've never seen a situation in which that was material.

[Jorbles]

Here is my look at wagon voting for this game feel free to skip to the end.

Here's the raw data I drew on (it's mostly here so people can check my work, you might want to skip to the conclusions if it looks dull to you):

I arbitrarily decided that the first non-joke vote of the game was Watno's vote on Galzria: September 25, 2012, 12:06:20 pm.

Watno votes for Galzria
Insomniac votes for Voltaire
Robz votes for Voltaire
Eevee votes for Dsell
Galzria votes for Voltaire
Eevee votes for ashersky
cayvie votes for Frisk
ashersky votes for Eevee
joth votes for Voltaire
Eevee votes for Archetype
Ashersky unvotes.
ftl votes for joth
cayvie votes for ftl
ashersky votes for joth
ashersky votes for cayvie
Jorbles unvotes
Voltaire's impending replacement is announced
Galzria unvotes
joth votes ashersky
Insomniac unvotes
shraeye votes for cayvie
Eevee votes for ashersky
Frisk votes for shraeye
Dsell votes for ashersky
Jorbles votes for Dsell
ftl votes for Robz
shraeye votes for Robz
Archetype votes for Robz (joke vote)
Archetype unvotes
Insomniac votes No Lunch
Galzria votes Robz
Insomniac corrects himself and votes No Lynch
Dsell unvotes
Insomniac votes Jorbles
Lekkit enters the game as Voltaire's replacement
Galzria votes Lekkit (joke vote)
Galzria votes Robz
Robz votes Jorbles
ftl votes joth
Archetype votes ftl
Eevee votes Archetype
joth votes Eevee (joke vote?)
Archetype votes Eevee
ashersky votes Eevee
joth votes ashersky
cayvie votes ashersky
Watno votes ashersky
Jorbles votes Watno
Dsell votes Eevee
ftl unvotes
Lekkit votes Insomniac
cayvie votes Jorbles
ftl votes ashersky
Robz votes ashersky
Eevee votes ashersky
ftl unvotes
joth votes watno
Robz votes watno
cayvie votes watno
Dsell votes watno
Dsell votes Frisk (joke vote)
Dsell votes watno
Archetype votes watno
ashersky votes watno
cayvie unvotes
Insomniac votes ftl
Galzria votes ftl
Eevee votes Archetype
Dsell votes Archetype
ftl votes Archetype
joth votes ftl


Here's the analysis:
For this analysis I have ignored what I have characterized as joke votes, and any revotes that returned the votes to their previous state immediately after joke votes. I have counted everything else. I also ignored No Lynch votes as they only apply to Insomniac.

Vote tallies:
Archetype (3), ashersky (5), Captain_Frisk (1), cayvie (5), Dsell (4), Eevee (7), ftl (5), Galzria (3), Insomniac (3), Jorbles (2), jotheonah (4), Lekkit (1), Robz888 (4), shraeye (2), Watno (2)

Voting onto a wagon:
I am counting this as any vote that was not the first vote for a player. It is hard to keep track of the state of votes so I apologize if there are any mistakes. The first number indicates how many times they voted after someone else had voted for that person, the second number indicates their total votes.
Archetype (2/3), ashersky (3/5), Captain_Frisk (0/1), cayvie (2/4), Dsell (4/4), Eevee (2/7), ftl (2/5), Galzria (3/3), Insomniac (0/3), Jorbles (0/2), jotheonah (3/4), Lekkit (0/1), Robz888 (4/4), shraeye (2/2), Watno (1/2)

So if you're looking for people who like to jump on wagons Dsell, Galzria, Robz888 and shraeye have only voted onto wagons. This looks the worst for Dsell and Robz who have done it 4 times each. ftl actually has only wagon voted twice of five times by my analysis though they have been at this later stage of the game.

Now I know that it's possible there's external factors at play here that affect the numbers (for example Eevee's vote count is the highest because he went on an anti-lurker voting spree early game), but I think it shows that Dsell and Robz have been sitting back and letting other players make cases for them and then building on them. Is this definitively scummy? No, but I'd be happy to lynch either of them. Now that I've got some better numbers to back it up are people willing to join me on a Dsell lynch? Vote: Dsell anyways. If people would prefer a Robz lynch for similar reasons I'm all for that too.

I am really glad I did this because it makes me feel really justified for my earlier suspicion of Dsell. It also gives me something solid to think about Robz (I now think he is scummy.)

I should say I'm not opposed to a Watno lynch still happening he might not be wagon voting, but I still think he's played scummy. I don't know what to think about a potential Archetype lynch yet. I will ponder that more at a later date. After I've caught up a bit at work.

PPE: I apologize if there's any errors in here. There was a lot of data to go over. Let me know and I'll adjust accordingly.

[Jorbles]

Also please consider this analysis in context. I should probably go properly quote Dsell's reasoning for each of his votes so people can consider it. I am however at work and need to get back to it. So I'll be doing that later tonight/this afternoon. People may also want to do this for Robz.

[Jorbles]

I also don't want to demonize wagon voting. Anyone who lives to the end of the game will probably do it a few times. But exclusively wagon voting is at best antitown. It shows that you're only considering the options presented to you by other players, which lets scum influence you into bad lynches.

[Jorbles]

There's also the problem of me saying Dsell is bad because he was wagon voting. Get on my wagon!

Wagon voting isn't necessarily scummy, but exclusively doing it is.

[Insomniac]

There's also the problem of me saying Dsell is bad because he was wagon voting. Get on my wagon!

Wagon voting isn't necessarily scummy, but exclusively doing it is.

If exclusively wagon voting is scummy is exclusively NON wagon voting also scummy? (thats us Jorbs)

[Jorbles]

There's also the problem of me saying Dsell is bad because he was wagon voting. Get on my wagon!

Wagon voting isn't necessarily scummy, but exclusively doing it is.

If exclusively wagon voting is scummy is exclusively NON wagon voting also scummy? (thats us Jorbs)

I thought about that, but I didn't really come to any conclusions. On the one hand it shows that we're thinking for ourselves, but on the other it shows that we're attempting to direct lynches. Do scum typically attempt to start lynches d1? Probably sometimes, but exclusively?

[Captain_Frisk]

There's also the problem of me saying Dsell is bad because he was wagon voting. Get on my wagon!

Wagon voting isn't necessarily scummy, but exclusively doing it is.

If exclusively wagon voting is scummy is exclusively NON wagon voting also scummy? (thats us Jorbs)

I was just thinking the same thing Insomniac.  I'm a little wary of day 1 vote count analysis, since so much of it was RVS.  My vote for Shraeye was non RVS and I never saw a case that I liked better, so here I sit at on the opposite end of the spectrum (low votes, no wagoning)

I'd throw up a vote on Jorbles for trying to start a new wagon close to deadline, but his post seems like alot more effort than simply lurking.

I actually have been suspicious of DSell for jumping on the last 2 wagons (Watno, Archetype).

Vote: DSell

[Eevee]

Robz is definitely super-guilt of only wagon-voting. He is even joking about it, seems to do it on purpose. I hate, absolutely loath playing purposefully scummy as town to protect your meta, which Robz claims to be doing (if I understood correctly? If you aren't doing that, then why are you not presenting any cases yourself? You are one of the best players on this site, surely you'd be able to..)

I think it's unfair to say Dsell is not making any individual analysis, because he was the first to present a long, constructed case against anyone (me). Now I obviously don't think the case was very good, but even misguided activity is better than no activity at all, so if you want to point a finger at someone for wagon-voting, it should definitely be Robz, not Dsell. This is not the first time you blatantly mischaracterize something or someone in this game Jorbles, I'm torn between thinking it's scummy and thinking it's not scummy because you do it all the time.

About my voting behavior, I have the highest vote count of all players (7). Obviously it doesn't really need explaining anyways because I also have the most posts (sup only being in one game) and I was prodding people with votes in the beginning, but my voting history is Dsell -> ashersky -> Archetype -> ashersky -> Archetype -> ashersky -> Archetype, and I was saying I'm almost indifferent between the two because I found them both good targets (fwiw I now think the case against archetype is better, which is not because my suspicion on ashersky has really lessened (he hasn't really done anything too special) but rather because my suspicion on archetype has increased). I think it's very different to attempt to create / join 7 different wagons and to do what I have done, alternate voting between my two scum reads.
PPE, some more comments about the scumminess of wagon-voting:
I don't think it's as much scummy as anti-town (and being anti-town in turn is obviously either bad town play or scum play). So, if someone is _always_ just sheeping other players, he is just a weaker player (often less experienced, or a child in IRL setting, etc), but shouldn't really be lynched for it. If someone is doing it intentionally (sup Robz), I think it's a lot more damning.

[Eevee]

There's also the problem of me saying Dsell is bad because he was wagon voting. Get on my wagon!

Wagon voting isn't necessarily scummy, but exclusively doing it is.

If wagon voting was totally prohibited, getting a lynch through would be rather hard..

[shraeye]

Oh man, that watno wagon was even faster than I remembered it.  So I'm looking over stuff and am a bit conflicted.  When I read cayvie's post about watno's contradiction (644) I was almost certain that watno was scum who had fooled me into a town read earlier.  But Frisk cooled me down a bit when he pointed out that this wagon felt like scum had to be piling on.  Then Archetype puts down the most flimsy vote I think I've ever seen in (666-hah, irony).  It looks exactly like a classic scum, "well I guess if you want me to lynch a townie, I'll do it, but I'm not exactly enthused about it".  He clarifies with "I meant the speed was unusual, but I still wanted to lynch you".  That seems like a terrible quibble to put in your post that votes him to L-2 though.  Why push that hard if you think something feels off?

I really dislike how both joth and dsell expressed qualms about the wagons speed, yet stayed on it (I know they're off now, but there were still on watno while Dsell was saying, "oh maybe we misinterpreted him").  I mean, how the heck do you wait 25 posts to switch your vote after saying this??

Gah. I just shot down my own best reason for voting for him.

Dsell definitely added some scum-levels in my eyes there.  Joth and Archetype were already reading scummy to me, so they stay there, though Archetype is probably moving to scum#1 ahead of Robz.  To summarize my thoughts on this, I really think we were crazy close to a mislynch there.  3 of my 4 strongest scumreads were on that wagon and 1 was not, sooo coulda been bad times there.

So I'm still pro-Robz lynch, he still hasn't been adding much of value as I see it.  I think I recall a few people saying that recently, or maybe I'm going crazy.  Archetype feels even scummier though, but some of this could be some issues with clarity that some of his posts have.  Still, reading Insom's case on ftl solidify thoughts I was having on him as I was posting.  The back and forth on the flavorclaiming, his lack of reasons behind his voting (I had only noticed it on jo, and now see it's a more frequent problem), and a lot of his votes on people seemed to happen when wagons were picking up steam, and beginning to look viable.
Vote: ftl

[Voltgloss]

Vote Count 1.10

ashersky (1): Watno
ftl (4): Insomniac, Galzria, jotheonah, shraeye
Insomniac (1): Lekkit
Watno (3): Robz888, Archetype, ashersky
Archetype (3): Eevee, Dsell, ftl
Dsell (2): Jorbles, Captain_Frisk

Not voting (1): cayvie

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

Lynch deadline: Monday, October 8, 5:00pm MDT

[Eevee]

Was shraeye town or scum in IX (major arcana)? These walls of text read exactly the same to me than they did in that game (towny), but I don't remember if that was correct or not then.

Maybe I'm a little vain but I'm surprised people are choosing Insomniac's ftl case over my Archetype-case (they are quite similar in the end). If Archetype at some point dies and flips mafia, major FoS to everyone who have voted for ftl or Dsell over archetype (unless one of them proves to be scum obviously). But that's probably just me being vain, although I don't think the Dsell case is nearly as compelling as the ftl or Archetype cases.

[shraeye]

Other thoughts while catching up:
Posts like jorbles' #583 on why he's not raging over the "won't flavor-claim" stuff are making him even townier in my eyes, also with #628 on how town-ashersky is a magnet for suspicion, just too easy to paint as scum.  My town read on asher is growing, jorbles was already one of the more solid town reads, and enraging Frisk is now becoming a medium-solid town read (his posts like 631--"asher-hunting is new morgrim-hunting"--and 649--"watno wagon feels full of scum piling on"--are the rational Frisk that is being helpful for town, instead of lurky-bored Frisk who was 0 help).

Lekkit is gaining some good townvibes in my eyes as well; his paranoid SK-case on Insom sounded super-towny to me, and has increased my suspicions of insom a bit.  I'd say he's neutral-to-slightscum now.

Also this snippet from Galz's 556 post just doubled the weird feeling he's giving me.  I still am feeling town, but still am superparanoid that this is my worst read.  That last sentence makes me say, "aww, he thinks I'm right" "wait a minute, stop buddying, scum!" "wait, that's too obvious of agreement for him to actually be scum, totally town" "but why does he want me to feel uncomfortable!!!"
arrrrrrggggg!!!!

Shraeye, you're right in your analysis of my play. I have said a lot, but a whole lot of that has been information, not analysis. If you go back and look at past games D1 though, I think you'll find this is often the case for me early in the day. I'm decent when it comes to picking out scum - above average even - and I have a tendency to lock on once I do. But up until that point, I generally find that I offer tidbits here and there of what I'm thinking. I've been called out in other games for appearing like I'm trying to skate by - but it's just the way I operate best. I have no problems if that makes you uncomfortable because it means you're trying - something scum often doesn't do genuinely.

[cayvie]

Was shraeye town or scum in IX (major arcana)? These walls of text read exactly the same to me than they did in that game (towny), but I don't remember if that was correct or not then.

Maybe I'm a little vain but I'm surprised people are choosing Insomniac's ftl case over my Archetype-case (they are quite similar in the end). If Archetype at some point dies and flips mafia, major FoS to everyone who have voted for ftl or Dsell over archetype (unless one of them proves to be scum obviously). But that's probably just me being vain, although I don't think the Dsell case is nearly as compelling as the ftl or Archetype cases.

shraeye was vanilla town in IX.

the cases do read pretty similarly. the tiebreaker for me is gut feeling on the players, and I've been suspicious of ftl all day, but have a mild townread on archetype.

vote: ftl

[Archetype]

Sorry for not being clear in my posts, I have a habit of doing that.

The case against me does seem legit. I've been mostly posting fluff, but that is only because I had no good reads/ keeping the post count police happy.

I dont post big, long synapsis of the game because that is just not my playstyle. I tend to post short messages that are (hopefully) to the point, but it seems they havent been.

I also dont post often because whenever I do, Eevee searches it for any evidence of me being Mafia. After reading my previous posts, I have said some scummish things.

Voting for Watno when I shouldnt have, poorly wording my reflection on the game, and voting Eevee for OMGUS when I realy was voting for him for scum read.

I'm going to move my vote back to Eevee. Vote: Eevee

I dont have time to search through this thread for al the instances of Eevee's scummy-ness, but I'll try and explain and hopefully be clear.

Hes been pushing a lynch on me ever since I made the mistake of being unclear with my voting style. He then backed off and voted for asher,saying him and I are scumbuddies. He then did some digging and  dug up information on me, and why I am scum.

Most of this info was just how I  didnt post frequently and how most of those posts were scummish, which was a very good point. I would probably vote for them too, if they werent me.

My only problem is, Eevee has been pushing this lynch on me for a while, which I find scummish. He should be going after mafia  not town who made some scum mistakes.

I have a feeling he is pushing this lynch on me is because he thinks I pose I threat to him by suspecting him in my first character description and he used my unclearity as a baseline of voting for me me. This is just a theory though.

People probably wont see this through, but I still highly suspect him.

Those are my thoughts. I was going to say something else, but I forgot it.

And Eevee's soon going to come, claiming I made some scumslip and should be lynched immediatly

[cayvie]

what

okay, never mind what i just said

that was a terrible vote on eevee

vote: archetype

[cayvie]

like seriously, "the case against me does seem legit" so i'll vote the player who wrote it??

[Captain_Frisk]

And admitting to fluff posting?

[Galzria]

Ugh. I LIKE my vote on ftl. But...

I can't ignore that post by Archetype. >.> Wow, it just was just SO MUCH SCUMMMMM.

Really, just. Gah. Vote: Archetype

"The case against me does seem legit."
"I've been mostly posting fluff, but that is only... keeping the post count police happy"
"I also dont post often because whenever I do, -Insert Name Here- searches it for any evidence of me being Mafia"
"After reading my previous posts, I have said some scummish things. "

((Why do I feel like I'm going line-by-line? Oh wait, I AM...))

"[Eevee] then did some digging and dug up information on me, and why I am scum... most of those posts were scummish, which was a very good point. I would probably vote for them too"

And this is on top of what Eevee (gasp!) has been saying for some time... which honestly is about as good as the case for why I was voting ftl.

[Eevee]

Archetype, the classic "I see why you would suspect me for that, but I'm not scum. Good scumhunting though!" defense isn't usually followed by a vote.  As cayvie seems to have noted, that makes no sense!

Couple of notes: I absolutely never said I suspect you and ashersky of being a scum pair. I mean I do see it as a possibility, but I know finding scum is hard enough - finding pairs day 1 is insanity. I do suspect both of you individually. One flipping town or scum doesn't change anything regarding my read on the other guy, because the read isn't coming from relations between you two. So that's a baseless accusation unless you can somehow find a quote (if you can, I have probably been unclear with my wording, I will apologize if that happens. Has anyone else felt like I was suspecting they are a scum pair or is this archetype mischaracterizing me again?).

I've been pushing your lynch really hard, but how is it scummy? Just step in my shoes for a bit (you even said you agree with me that the case on you seems legit), what should I do? I think I've found scum, I surely am going to push it unless you or someone else convinces me the case is bad, something (my read or game circumstances) changes. Most every post you make just makes the scum read stronger and stronger, so I don't understand why you'd want me to drop a case you yourself admit "seems legit"!?

Just compare you and me, you are, by your own words, "posting fluff to keep the post count police happy", I on the other hand am commenting on most every issue there has been today, and think I've found scum and am trying to explain my case to others to get them to join me. I don't have any other reads this strong (and I'm sharing the smaller ones), I do have weighed in on what others are presenting us, but why would I start pushing some lesser scum read of mine when I have this case on you that is much stronger in my mind?

[Archetype]

I guess that's it then. Go ahead and lynch me, someone needs to  die D1 anyway.

[Lekkit]

"I also dont post often because whenever I do, Eevee searches it for any evidence of me being Mafia." Either you're town, and then you should probably be able to prove it to the other players by actually contributing. That way Eevee would appear more scummy for pushing for your lynch. However you haven't really said much. I know I haven't either, but if Eevee (or anyone else) would've pushed as hard for my lynch I would try to deflect the wagon from me. The other posibility and what you actually read to me now is paranoid scum, who hopes someone like flt will deflect your wagon by saying something that will cause another wagon to get started. The case "I'm Eevee's top scum candidate" doesn't sound very convincing to me. And I can't really remember Eevee saying you and Asher were scumbuddies. I think he said you were both scummy, though.

While I'm not entirely in line with cayvie I think zhe got the basics right. You do say you would've voted for yourself if you weren't you, and that Eevee's case seems legit.

Vote: Archetype

PPE: Stop posting, guys, I'm trying to get my post up.

[Galzria]

That's L-2, so slow it up a little and let others chime in before rushing off to lynch.

[Captain_Frisk]

An I reading this correctly?

[shraeye]

I guess that's it then. Go ahead and lynch me, someone needs to  die D1 anyway.

What the? I don't even.  Wha??  So much of me wants to vote right now, but I'm trying hard to use my head, and not make reactionary votes.  I'm going to sit down and look at this harder after my tennis match.

[cayvie]

An I reading this correctly?

tell me more

[Dsell]

Jorbles, I definitely have been getting on wagons if I see some merit in them. However, I'm not sure that I'd characterize my vote on eevee as a wagon vote. I wasn't the first person to put my vote on there, but I was the first to do it with much reason, and it was on the back of fairly strong analysis. I definitely did wagon watno and archetype though. The case on watno looked really good at the time (partially because of a typo), and I think the case on archetype looks good in light of eevee's analysis.

[Captain_Frisk]

An I reading this correctly?

tell me more

Sorry - phone posting but it looks like the worst defense in f.ds history other than theorels defense against timchen's seering gaze

[cayvie]

An I reading this correctly?

tell me more

Sorry - phone posting but it looks like the worst defense in f.ds history other than theorels defense against timchen's seering gaze

I think ehal D2 in MVI deserves a nomination!

[Captain_Frisk]

Careful - that might be a mod killing offense.

[Jorbles]

Sorry for not being clear in my posts, I have a habit of doing that.

The case against me does seem legit. I've been mostly posting fluff, but that is only because I had no good reads/ keeping the post count police happy.

I dont post big, long synapsis of the game because that is just not my playstyle. I tend to post short messages that are (hopefully) to the point, but it seems they havent been.

I also dont post often because whenever I do, Eevee searches it for any evidence of me being Mafia. After reading my previous posts, I have said some scummish things.

Voting for Watno when I shouldnt have, poorly wording my reflection on the game, and voting Eevee for OMGUS when I realy was voting for him for scum read.

I'm going to move my vote back to Eevee. Vote: Eevee

I dont have time to search through this thread for al the instances of Eevee's scummy-ness, but I'll try and explain and hopefully be clear.

Hes been pushing a lynch on me ever since I made the mistake of being unclear with my voting style. He then backed off and voted for asher,saying him and I are scumbuddies. He then did some digging and  dug up information on me, and why I am scum.

Most of this info was just how I  didnt post frequently and how most of those posts were scummish, which was a very good point. I would probably vote for them too, if they werent me.

My only problem is, Eevee has been pushing this lynch on me for a while, which I find scummish. He should be going after mafia  not town who made some scum mistakes.

I have a feeling he is pushing this lynch on me is because he thinks I pose I threat to him by suspecting him in my first character description and he used my unclearity as a baseline of voting for me me. This is just a theory though.

People probably wont see this through, but I still highly suspect him.

Those are my thoughts. I was going to say something else, but I forgot it.

And Eevee's soon going to come, claiming I made some scumslip and should be lynched immediatly

This defense is so poorly thought out that it makes me think that Archetype might just be a town player who has played atrociously. Would a scum player actually think this would make them seem less scummy? I have misgivings.

[Voltgloss]

Vote Count 1.11

ashersky (1): Watno
ftl (3): Insomniac, jotheonah, shraeye
Watno (2): Robz888, ashersky
Archetype (6): Eevee, Dsell, ftl, cayvie, Galzria, Lekkit
Dsell (2): Jorbles, Captain_Frisk
Eevee (1): Archetype

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

Lynch deadline: Monday, October 8, 5:00pm MDT

[shraeye]

Jesus, that's just so much...

I keep reading Archetype's defense, his frustration with Eevee picking apart his posts seems honest, but honest frustration can also come from scum.  Admitting the case on him is legit without providing any defense, saying in the 11th hour that he shouldn't have made the watno vote, add that to my serious scumread I already had on him, and I'm sold.
Vote: archetype

[Archetype]

You probably won't believe me, but I'll tell you my role in case that helps people not lynch me.

I do not want to tell you my role, in case because of some miracle I live, but I will tell you that I share a QT with 2 other players that will be left unnamed. I can not quote my PM, so I guess you'll have to take my word for it, but here's my flavor:

"Flavour name: Censored
Role name:Censored
Alignment: Town

I scream, you scream, we all scream for... daychat!  You are a vegan ice cream cone.  And we all know vegans must stick together!  Therefore, you share a QT with two other rather delicious players:

-QT Link-


You may use this for both night and day talk.  The alignments of your neighbours are unknown to you.  Your entire Neighbourhood has 7 shared “Scoops”, or shots if you prefer Mafia terms.  That is to say, if your two neighbours choose not to use their powers ever, you could use yours 7 times.  You can all use your powers on the same night.  If you all use your powers every night, only one will be able on the third night and nobody will be able to use their powers after that.  If there are not enough scoops to go around, scoops will be used on a first-come first-serve basis.  Your action must be submitted by PM, though you may discuss its use in the QT.

-Paragraph explaining my role power-"

I do not know if this will be helpful for anyone, but I wanted to post it just in case the info was lost after I died.

[Archetype]

Aack, yes I know I edited it. I thought those 2 seconds after you post it of "edit ok" was still there. All I put was the last sentence. eHalcyon feel free to modkill me if you feel it is necessary.

[jotheonah]

Assuming he doesn't get modkilled, do you all think Archetype should tell us his power too? That's kind of the part one typically shares at L-1. Want to claim doctor perhaps?

[Galzria]

I don't think he should be modkilled. I think he should be lynched.

I had a role once that had QT accesses. Day chat. Night chat. Two mysterious strangers to boot. I was scum.

[cayvie]

I don't think he should be modkilled. I think he should be lynched.

I had a role once that had QT accesses. Day chat. Night chat. Two mysterious strangers to boot. I was scum.

i kinda don't think he should be modkilled because that becomes a gamebreaking strategy for town, right?

if you're gonna be lynched as town, just modkill yourself, then the town gets another shot at scum.

[Archetype]

Assuming he doesn't get modkilled, do you all think Archetype should tell us his power too? That's kind of the part one typically shares at L-1. Want to claim doctor perhaps?

Really wish I could claim Doctor, but if I did I would be lying.

[Eevee]

Oh modkilling for that sounds way too harsh. I agree with Galzria though, nothing there makes me want to unvote one bit. I think he should fullclaim, yes. What he has given us this far could just as well be a scum role even if he wasn't lying..

[Eevee]

I don't think he should be modkilled. I think he should be lynched.

I had a role once that had QT accesses. Day chat. Night chat. Two mysterious strangers to boot. I was scum.

i kinda don't think he should be modkilled because that becomes a gamebreaking strategy for town, right?

if you're gonna be lynched as town, just modkill yourself, then the town gets another shot at scum.

Oh and also it was (probably) just an honest mistake?

[jotheonah]

it's actually really scummy that he quoted the first part word for word and then omitted the part that would make his alignment clear. Like he frantically posted the part he didn't have to edit to give himself time to come up with a town-version of the power part.

That said, I think the prohibition against quoting mod-supplied info refers to copy-pasting, ot just to using the quote tags. Right?

[Archetype]

I don't think he should be modkilled. I think he should be lynched.

I had a role once that had QT accesses. Day chat. Night chat. Two mysterious strangers to boot. I was scum.

i kinda don't think he should be modkilled because that becomes a gamebreaking strategy for town, right?

if you're gonna be lynched as town, just modkill yourself, then the town gets another shot at scum.

Oh and also it was (probably) just an honest mistake?

It was. Seriously.

Oh modkilling for that sounds way too harsh. I agree with Galzria though, nothing there makes me want to unvote one bit. I think he should fullclaim, yes. What he has given us this far could just as well be a scum role even if he wasn't lying..

I'm a Tracker. For those who don't know what that is, each night I choose a person, and track what actions they do during the night. If they're Mafia, I see who they targeted, if they are a Doctor, I see who they protected.

Now that I've claimed, a Mafia member will lynch me, and say I was lying. They would now have eliminated a strong Town Role, see me flip town and plead saying, "you guys all thought he was scum too!" And they are off the hook.

My warning: I would be suspicious of the person that hammers me.

[jotheonah]

Tracker is a pretty common mafia role in RM games, is it not?

[Archetype]

Here you go, jo:

Flavour name: Chocolate Townie
Role name: X-Shot Neighborhood Tracker
Alignment: Town

Abilities:

I scream, you scream, we all scream for... daychat!  You are a vegan ice cream cone.  And we all know vegans must stick together!  Therefore, you share a QT with two other rather delicious players:

[snip]

You may use this for both night and day talk.  The alignments of your neighbours are unknown to you.  Your entire Neighbourhood has 7 shared “Scoops”, or shots if you prefer Mafia terms.  That is to say, if your two neighbours choose not to use their powers ever, you could use yours 7 times.  You can all use your powers on the same night.  If you all use your powers every night, only one will be able on the third night and nobody will be able to use their powers after that.  If there are not enough scoops to go around, scoops will be used on a first-come first-serve basis.  Your action must be submitted by PM, though you may discuss its use in the QT.

You are a Tracker.  Each night, until you run out of Scoops, you may feed someone a scoop of your slightly-melted Chocolate Ice Cream.  By looking out for chocolate stains, you are able to determine who your target targeted that night.


That's the whole thing.

[Archetype]

Tracker is a pretty common mafia role in RM games, is it not?

I don't know. This is my first RMM game, and this one isn't.

[jotheonah]

Archetype, I'm almost sure that's not allowed! You posted the QT link! No one click that!

[Archetype]

Oh crap!
I forgot to take that out!

[Archetype]

Yeah, someone just lynch me before I ruin anything else.

[Archetype]

Actually: Vote: Archetype

Problem solved. GG guys, hope town wins.

[Voltgloss]

I think, in eHalc's absence, I need to take some steps here.  Here's the first step.

THREAD LOCKED

[Eevee]

Tracker is a pretty common mafia role in RM games, is it not?

I'm inclined to believe his powers are what he claims they are (can't make that stuff up), but it could just as well be a scum role, so I still think this case is solid (which is rare after a claim). Isn't tracker stronger for scum than town in a setup like this anyways?

Archetype definitely edit the quicktopic link away asap!

[Voltgloss]

THREAD LOCKED

[Voltgloss]

Well, whether there's been a modkillable offense or not, the end result is the same as a lynch (as modkill of a Town player ends the day).  So...

Vote Count 1.12

ashersky (1): Watno
ftl (2): Insomniac, jotheonah
Watno (2): Robz888, ashersky
Archetype {8}: Eevee, Dsell, ftl, cayvie, Galzria, Lekkit, shraeye, Archetype
Dsell (2): Jorbles, Captain_Frisk

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

Archetype has been lynched.  He was a Town-Aligned Chocolate Townie.

Night 1 has begun.  Night actions are due within 48 hours, i.e., by 1:00 a.m. EDT on Sunday, October 7 (subject to adjustment by eHalc if he wishes). 

This thread is nowstill LOCKED.

[eHalcyon]

I've not been around and now have three pages to catch up on.  Will post when I have caught up...

[eHalcyon]

So, uh, did anyone click the link?

[eHalcyon]

Mission Failed...

The house elves and various volunteers worked dilligently to clean up those messy common rooms.  Sappy's mangled body was taken to the greenhouses.  Waste not, want not!  With their arcane elf magic, the task was completed very quickly.  Why had they ever worried about having only a few hours, when only a few minutes were required?

But just a bit less than a few minutes before the arrival of the students, the house elves discovered something horrible.  CHOCOLATE STAINS.  Town-aligned chocolate stains all over the Ravenclaw common room.  TRAGEDY!  DESPAIR!  For some reason, the volunteers they had recruited had decided to make a huge mess in the newly cleaned area.  Needless to say, the first day of school was ruined.


Status:

3/4 common rooms cleaned
1/4 cockroach clusters consumed
3/11 cards missing
0/5 dementors defeated

Next Quidditch match has been postponed to day 4(Ravenclaw vs. Slytherin).





Voltgloss' above vote count and thread lock still stand.

I will extend the deadline to 3:00PM MDT on Monday, October 8, just to give you guys a little extra time over the weekend.  As always in RMM, the day may start early if all night actions come in before the deadline.

Please let me know by PM (or by QT if you have one) if you clicked the link that Archetype had posted earlier.  Please be honest.

[eHalcyon]

Surprise Surprise...

As Day 2 began, the residents of Sunnydale woke up to find that there had been yet another murder in their sleepy little town.  As if vampires and demons weren't bad enough -- weirder things were happening now.

First, there were the blue people.  Well, it was really more of a cyan.  Insomniac and Robz888 were found completely covered in cyan paint.

To make matters worse, Insomniac had been killed.  He was town-aligned Electric Shepherd.  Giles noted that it was less of a tragedy because he wasn't even a living, breathing being, but conceded that his advanced artificial intelligence maybe put the matter in new ethical territory.

The manner of death was noteworthy.  Insomniac had been strangled, all of his circuits crushed in a powerful grip.  A bad-ass fingerless black leather glove was caught in the frayed neck-wires.  Additionally, Insomniac's android head was bashed in by an ice cream scoop that remained embedded in the metal.  Vanilla ice cream dripped from the wound.  A rather messy way to go.

What foul creature(s) could commit such a terrible crime?  The Slayer would certainly have her hands full these next few days!




Status:

0/4 vampires slain
1/7 tomes on the supernatural read
3/12 students missing
0/4 Big Bads defeated

Prom (previously scheduled for day 3) has been cancelled.





Day 2 Start

Vote Count 2.1

Not voting (13): ashersky, Captain_Frisk, cayvie, Dsell, Eevee, ftl, Galzria, Jorbles, jotheonah, Lekkit, Robz888, shraeye, Watno

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Lynch deadline: Monday, October 22, 7:00pm MDT

Thread Unlocked!

[Lekkit]

So we don't get a flip from Robz. Hmm...

Also. I do feel kinda bad for suspecting Ins.

[Lekkit]

And we need to get Spike here as fast as we can!

[Galzria]

So we don't get a flip from Robz. Hmm...

Also. I do feel kinda bad for suspecting Ins.

Robz isn't dead. Just covered in Cyan. Read closely.

[cayvie]

we're in sunnydale now?

And we need to get Spike here as fast as we can!

dude, if we care that prom is coming up, spike is not our friend.

[ftl]

OK, so there's some sort of correspondence between the Statuses on different days. The numbers change though.



Status:

0/4 vampires slain
1/10 tomes on the supernatural read
3/12 students missing
0/4 Big Bads defeated

Prom (previously scheduled for day 3) has been cancelled.





Status:

3/4 common rooms cleaned
1/4 cockroach clusters consumed
3/11 cards missing
0/5 dementors defeated

Next Quidditch match has been postponed to day 4(Ravenclaw vs. Slytherin).





Status:

0/4 common rooms cleaned
0/10 beans consumed
3/12 cards missing
0/4 dementors defeated

Next Quidditch match is scheduled for Day 3 (Ravenclaw vs. Slytherin) but may be postponed if their common rooms have not been cleaned by that day.

[Dsell]

I feel like I have to reread this whole game. I forgot everything over the weekend.

[Captain_Frisk]

Is the double hog warts flavor mod intentional?

[Captain_Frisk]

Never mind - that was FTl

[ftl]

I guess I pasted them in reverse order. Between the start of the day we went from 0/X on everything to 3/4, 1/4, 3/11, 0/5.

And then we became sunnydale.

[eHalcyon]

Status:

0/4 vampires slain
1/7 tomes on the supernatural read
3/12 students missing
0/4 Big Bads defeated

Prom (previously scheduled for day 3) has been cancelled.

Sorry, made a mistake here.  Should be 7 tomes.

[jotheonah]

I have some news from the night. I believe someone ... tried to frame me? stole/copied my flavor?

My role flavor is related to Vanilla Ice Cream. But my power does not involve killing people. And I didn't target Insomniac last night.

Possibly related, someone played me a song last night. Specifically, "Surprise Surprise" by Billy Talent.

So I have no idea what's happening. But that's the truth.

"Modconfirmation that there are spoons" was a flavor breadcrumb.

[cayvie]

I have some news from the night. I believe someone ... tried to frame me? stole/copied my flavor?

My role flavor is related to Vanilla Ice Cream. But my power does not involve killing people. And I didn't target Insomniac last night.

Possibly related, someone played me a song last night. Specifically, "Surprise Surprise" by Billy Talent.

So I have no idea what's happening. But that's the truth.

"Modconfirmation that there are spoons" was a flavor breadcrumb.

i too heard that song last night

[ftl]

Yep, I heard the same song.

[ashersky]

I have some news from the night. I believe someone ... tried to frame me? stole/copied my flavor?

My role flavor is related to Vanilla Ice Cream. But my power does not involve killing people. And I didn't target Insomniac last night.

Possibly related, someone played me a song last night. Specifically, "Surprise Surprise" by Billy Talent.

So I have no idea what's happening. But that's the truth.

"Modconfirmation that there are spoons" was a flavor breadcrumb.

i too heard that song last night

I also heard it.

[Robz888]

I heard the song as well. Thought it was just flavor. I know who/what covered me in cyan paint (sort of), but it doesn't exactly implicate the person is any evil activity.

[Galzria]

Same here with the song.

Joth, did you target me?

[Lekkit]

Heard the song too.

[ftl]

I heard the song as well. Thought it was just flavor. I know who/what covered me in cyan paint (sort of), but it doesn't exactly implicate the person is any evil activity.

Do you know who covered insomniac in cyan paint? That would implicate them in evil activity.

[jotheonah]

Same here with the song.

Joth, did you target me?

...yes. But I'm not claiming my role here.

[ftl]

I heard the song as well. Thought it was just flavor. I know who/what covered me in cyan paint (sort of), but it doesn't exactly implicate the person is any evil activity.

Do you know who covered insomniac in cyan paint? That would implicate them in evil activity.

...actually, well, maybe not, it could be unrelated to the death. Still.

[cayvie]

i guess the question is, did anyone not hear that song?

[Dsell]

I heard the song as well. Perhaps everyone did?

[jotheonah]

it is the title of the day.

[Galzria]

Same here with the song.

Joth, did you target me?

...yes. But I'm not claiming my role here.

That's fine, but unless you can target two people, and only kill one (which I doubt, as that's rather obscure), I can confirm your claim that you are Vanilla Ice Cream flavor, and that you targeted me, not Insomniac.

[cayvie]

ashersky was also ice-cream flavored; i wouldn't be too surprised if there were multiple vanilla ice-cream flavored players around

[cayvie]

by ashersky i mean archetype

[Lekkit]

we're in sunnydale now?

And we need to get Spike here as fast as we can!

dude, if we care that prom is coming up, spike is not our friend.

Spike will always be my friend. And besides with season 4 coming up, I'm alnost in favor of speeding things up to get there. I mean... Giant snake dude...

PPE: Galz you saying you know jo can target only 1 person?

[ftl]

Man, a scrying pool tracker could really shed some light on the night's events!

(cue C_F catching scum)

(archetype) was also ice-cream flavored; i wouldn't be too surprised if there were multiple vanilla ice-cream flavored players around

I believe he told us there were three?

[jotheonah]

Well, yes and no. I was in Archetype's QT. There are others also, who I won't out, obviously. We don't know each other's alignments.

[Dsell]

ashersky was also ice-cream flavored; i wouldn't be too surprised if there were multiple vanilla ice-cream flavored players around

In his PM it said there were 3 vegan ice cream people right? I'm assuming there's one chocolate, one vanilla, and one something else.

Which would mean either jo is telling the truth and someone framed him or he is mafia and can target two people, killing one.

[jotheonah]

One other, actually.

[ftl]

I scream, you scream, we all scream for... daychat!  You are a vegan ice cream cone.  And we all know vegans must stick together!  Therefore, you share a QT with two other rather delicious players:

[snip]

You may use this for both night and day talk.  The alignments of your neighbours are unknown to you. 

[ftl]

did the other person do it joth, should we lynch them

[jotheonah]

ashersky was also ice-cream flavored; i wouldn't be too surprised if there were multiple vanilla ice-cream flavored players around

In his PM it said there were 3 vegan ice cream people right? I'm assuming there's one chocolate, one vanilla, and one something else.

Which would mean either jo is telling the truth and someone framed him or he is mafia and can target two people, killing one.

Exactly. And I decided to come out with this right away, because if I thought that would be the best way to derail the frame attempt, if that's what it is.

[jotheonah]

He ... could have. I have thought that 1 scum and 2 town would be the most logical makeup, if not 3 town.  And if the power is just a choose-your-flavor kill, he could have picked mine, as the only flavor in the game he knows other than his, and planned to frame me.

But this is all quite conjectural.

[ftl]

in b4 galz/joth scumteam with galz covering for joth

[Captain_Frisk]

I also heard song

[Galzria]

Well, I had two things happen to me last night. The second was that while pondering the meaning of the first (along with the meaning of the Song Surprise Surprise), I suddenly found a scoop of Vanilla Ice Cream shoved down my throat. Instead of pondering the meaning of THAT however, I decided to just enjoy the wonderful treat for what it was. Deeelicious.

[shraeye]

Surprises abound apparently?  Then Surprise Surprise is an apt name for today.  I heard that song as well.  Was it a mod-chosen song, or a player chosen song?  I'm leaning mod since so many people heard it.  I'm still trying to focus on my Monday-funday of work which got mildly derailed by super-fast action in some other thread that many of us probably know about; so I'm not ready to dive that deep into the rabbit hole right now.  I'll start inspecting and theorizing harder tomorrow after a meeting with my advisor.

[ftl]

at this point we can assume basically everyone heard it (speak up if you didn't and you think we should know) so it's obviously mod-propagated to everyone and not a player targetting people individually. Could still be a player choosing the song tho.

Also, the slayer is the super-powerful townie today.

I see no codes in today's flavor. Actually, for all the read-the-freaking-flavor, I don't know what useful things to get out of flavor. Number of scum is probably 4, or 5? (number of vampires/dementors/bigbads)

[cayvie]

It looks like Insomniac was killed twice, right?

Strangled by a glove dude, and bludgeoned with ice cream?

[cayvie]

I'm gonna see who Insomniac was suspicious of.

[cayvie]

His big pushes were against Jorbles and ftl; I wouldn't be surprised at all if at least one of them belongs to a scumfaction who killed him.

[ftl]

right, gotta play this as a regular game for a bit, forget the flavor and focus on who confirmed townies insom and arch were suspicious of.

Archetype ended the day voting for himself, insom was voting for me. ...ok yeah, insom sort of had it in for me at the end I'm not scum though!

Previously insom also voted for jorbles, and for no lynch, and for voltaire for lurking.
Previously, archetype had voted for eevee, watno, robz.

[Captain_Frisk]

The lyrics to surprise surprise - just in case:

You got the look, but not the credit
They wrote the book, on how to sell it

From cigarettes, to skinny jeans
You got the money, they got the means

Oh you upper class daughters, and working class sons
It's hard to save a dollar, the way the world runs
You're the target market of a corporate joke
It won't be so ironic when your daddy is broke

Surprise surprise, surprise surprise
You're much better looking when you're in disguise
Surprise surprise, surprise surprise
And this revolution has been brought to you by

Just gotta stop, so you can mimic
The tortured artist, the jaded cynic

The latest gadget, is just a gimmick
Another sucker, born every minute

Well I'm sick of this town, bringing me down
A vast world epidemic all around
I'm sick of this town, bringing me down
A lost generation trying to act profound

Oh you upper class daughters, and working class sons
It's hard to save a dollar the way the world runs
We got a counterculture you can buy of a shelf
If you're losing your identity to somebody else

Surprise surprise, surprise surprise
You're much better looking when you're in disguise
Surprise surprise, surprise surprise
And this revolution has been brought to you by
Those who seek to think we don't care
And those who seek to think we're not aware
Surprise surprise, surprise surprise
You're much better looking when you're in disguise

Call the ranks...
Call the ranks...
Call the ranks...

Oh you working class daughters, and upper class sons
It's hard to save a dollar the way the world runs
We're the target market of a corporate hoax
Our generation is a fucking joke

Surprise surprise, surprise surprise
You're much better looking when you're in disguise
Surprise surprise, surprise surprise
And this revolution has been brought to you by
Those who seek to think we don't care
And those who seek to think we're not aware
Surprise surprise, surprise surprise
You're much better looking when you're in disguise I Take No creadit for this

[Eevee]

Yayy, it's on again! That was some serious mafia-deprivation right there, being without a game for like half a week. First of all, sorry for shoving the archetype-case down on everyone's throats yesterday. I promise that's all the shoving I've done in this game. I really really really thought he was scum, wtf. Also sorry archetype if you are reading this, I might have been too harsh on you. I was really excited about finding scum and possibly got a bit carried away. Sorry!

I heard the song as well.

Indeed it looks like Insomniac was targeted twice. Isn't strangulation usually a serial killer? If two factions (could be a vig too, or something else) targeted Insomniac, that's obviously a lucky break for us.

When I read the flavor, I was like "booom this is easy, the killer is the vanilla ice cream guy from the QT and the third guy can surely point us at him". Then I was really surprised to see joth come right out and claim that, why are you people not suspecting him? To me it seems like the most plausible explanation: he could for example be a mafia roleblocker who killed Insomniac by crushing him with a scone and then blocked Galzria by distracting him with ice cream or something? Am I missing something? Strongest argument in his favor I can think of is that it would be rather mean of the mod to tell at least one townie (archetype) that joth is the vanilla ice cream and then have the flavor implicate him like that. Still, everyone just accepting "Joth must have been framed!" is really weird to me, how does that even work? Someone has the ability to choose what the mod writes for kill flavor? ..and all this being said, I got a town read on joth yesterday. But I've learned to abandon my gut based reads when new facts come to light, and I would say we need to take a closer look at joth. Can anyone think of a way to verify his claims?

Cayvie's actions today read towny to me. I have no idea where the day start flavor is from or what it could mean, so once again I'm of no help in that department. I even googled the lyrics to the Billy Talent song, but didn't get anything out of them either. Seems everyone else is equally confused though?

Robz, do you know what it was that happened to you last night?

[ftl]

the day start flavor is from Buffy the Vampire Slayer. It's a TV show about a superpowered girl who is the Vampire Slayer and saves her town of sunnydale from a variety of demons and vampires and so on.

[Eevee]

One more thing, I was debating if I should say this yesterday already but I feel now I can't push my luck anymore, especially since this should probably be totally harmless. If you think disclosing this information might be dangerous, just keep quiet.
I have a reason to believe there is someone in this game who is in the mail carrying business. I know this is vague, but if that's you, you should recognize yourself. My character has a reason to hate you / want to harm to you, but I / my faction (town) doesn't really want that to happen (in fact, if you are town too it's strictly against our win con). To save us from something very very unfortunate, it would be great if you disclosed yourself to me. I don't need any verification, a simple "yeps it me" would be sufficient. Again, even though my character is very mad at you, I'm over it already mang, you don't need to fear me I promise. It's just.. if I don't know who you are, I might accidentally do something terrible.

@ftl
Thanks. Vampires, boooo.

[Captain_Frisk]

One more thing, I was debating if I should say this yesterday already but I feel now I can't push my luck anymore, especially since this should probably be totally harmless. If you think disclosing this information might be dangerous, just keep quiet.
I have a reason to believe there is someone in this game who is in the mail carrying business. I know this is vague, but if that's you, you should recognize yourself. My character has a reason to hate you / want to harm to you, but I / my faction (town) doesn't really want that to happen (in fact, if you are town too it's strictly against our win con). To save us from something very very unfortunate, it would be great if you disclosed yourself to me. I don't need any verification, a simple "yeps it me" would be sufficient. Again, even though my character is very mad at you, I'm over it already mang, you don't need to fear me I promise. It's just.. if I don't know who you are, I might accidentally do something terrible.

@ftl
Thanks. Vampires, boooo.

Holy [poop] would I not say [poop] if I am a mail carrier.  [This neither confirms or denies that I know anything about mail carrying]

[Robz888]

Yayy, it's on again! That was some serious mafia-deprivation right there, being without a game for like half a week. First of all, sorry for shoving the archetype-case down on everyone's throats yesterday. I promise that's all the shoving I've done in this game. I really really really thought he was scum, wtf. Also sorry archetype if you are reading this, I might have been too harsh on you. I was really excited about finding scum and possibly got a bit carried away. Sorry!

I heard the song as well.

Indeed it looks like Insomniac was targeted twice. Isn't strangulation usually a serial killer? If two factions (could be a vig too, or something else) targeted Insomniac, that's obviously a lucky break for us.

When I read the flavor, I was like "booom this is easy, the killer is the vanilla ice cream guy from the QT and the third guy can surely point us at him". Then I was really surprised to see joth come right out and claim that, why are you people not suspecting him? To me it seems like the most plausible explanation: he could for example be a mafia roleblocker who killed Insomniac by crushing him with a scone and then blocked Galzria by distracting him with ice cream or something? Am I missing something? Strongest argument in his favor I can think of is that it would be rather mean of the mod to tell at least one townie (archetype) that joth is the vanilla ice cream and then have the flavor implicate him like that. Still, everyone just accepting "Joth must have been framed!" is really weird to me, how does that even work? Someone has the ability to choose what the mod writes for kill flavor? ..and all this being said, I got a town read on joth yesterday. But I've learned to abandon my gut based reads when new facts come to light, and I would say we need to take a closer look at joth. Can anyone think of a way to verify his claims?

Cayvie's actions today read towny to me. I have no idea where the day start flavor is from or what it could mean, so once again I'm of no help in that department. I even googled the lyrics to the Billy Talent song, but didn't get anything out of them either. Seems everyone else is equally confused though?

Robz, do you know what it was that happened to you last night?

As I said, I know vaguely the who/why/how of what happened to me, but... it's pretty vague, and doesn't reveal anything useful, I don't think.

[Eevee]

One more thing, I was debating if I should say this yesterday already but I feel now I can't push my luck anymore, especially since this should probably be totally harmless. If you think disclosing this information might be dangerous, just keep quiet.
I have a reason to believe there is someone in this game who is in the mail carrying business. I know this is vague, but if that's you, you should recognize yourself. My character has a reason to hate you / want to harm to you, but I / my faction (town) doesn't really want that to happen (in fact, if you are town too it's strictly against our win con). To save us from something very very unfortunate, it would be great if you disclosed yourself to me. I don't need any verification, a simple "yeps it me" would be sufficient. Again, even though my character is very mad at you, I'm over it already mang, you don't need to fear me I promise. It's just.. if I don't know who you are, I might accidentally do something terrible.

@ftl
Thanks. Vampires, boooo.

Holy [poop] would I not say [poop] if I am a mail carrier.  [This neither confirms or denies that I know anything about mail carrying]

Yeah, I know.. Damn you eHalcyon, this suckks. My role is pretty genius, props.

I know it seems like I'm up to no good, but it really would be very beneficial for us both if I knew who he is. I can actually even tell the reason for that I guess, my role pm says he ran off with my wife (well, ex-wife now) and if I target him with my night action, I "won't be able to control my anger and will first kill him and then commit suicide out of sheer guilt". So, yeah, that's why. Other than that my role is rather pacifist. I do acknowledge there is a possibility eHalcyon is just trolling me and that dude isn't in this game, but I would rather not risk it if I didn't have to.

@Robz
Okay. No need to tell anything if you don't think it's useful, obviously. Looks like it was something rather unique either way, so I'm curious. No cults as per the OP, so we don't have to be afraid of the blue man group taking over at least.

[cayvie]

One more thing, I was debating if I should say this yesterday already but I feel now I can't push my luck anymore, especially since this should probably be totally harmless. If you think disclosing this information might be dangerous, just keep quiet.
I have a reason to believe there is someone in this game who is in the mail carrying business. I know this is vague, but if that's you, you should recognize yourself. My character has a reason to hate you / want to harm to you, but I / my faction (town) doesn't really want that to happen (in fact, if you are town too it's strictly against our win con). To save us from something very very unfortunate, it would be great if you disclosed yourself to me. I don't need any verification, a simple "yeps it me" would be sufficient. Again, even though my character is very mad at you, I'm over it already mang, you don't need to fear me I promise. It's just.. if I don't know who you are, I might accidentally do something terrible.

@ftl
Thanks. Vampires, boooo.

Holy [poop] would I not say [poop] if I am a mail carrier.  [This neither confirms or denies that I know anything about mail carrying]

Yeah, I know.. Damn you eHalcyon, this suckks. My role is pretty genius, props.

I know it seems like I'm up to no good, but it really would be very beneficial for us both if I knew who he is. I can actually even tell the reason for that I guess, my role pm says he ran off with my wife (well, ex-wife now) and if I target him with my night action, I "won't be able to control my anger and will first kill him and then commit suicide out of sheer guilt". So, yeah, that's why. Other than that my role is rather pacifist. I do acknowledge there is a possibility eHalcyon is just trolling me and that dude isn't in this game, but I would rather not risk it if I didn't have to.

@Robz
Okay. No need to tell anything if you don't think it's useful, obviously. Looks like it was something rather unique either way, so I'm curious. No cults as per the OP, so we don't have to be afraid of the blue man group taking over at least.

wait, are you from se7en?

[Eevee]

One more thing, I was debating if I should say this yesterday already but I feel now I can't push my luck anymore, especially since this should probably be totally harmless. If you think disclosing this information might be dangerous, just keep quiet.
I have a reason to believe there is someone in this game who is in the mail carrying business. I know this is vague, but if that's you, you should recognize yourself. My character has a reason to hate you / want to harm to you, but I / my faction (town) doesn't really want that to happen (in fact, if you are town too it's strictly against our win con). To save us from something very very unfortunate, it would be great if you disclosed yourself to me. I don't need any verification, a simple "yeps it me" would be sufficient. Again, even though my character is very mad at you, I'm over it already mang, you don't need to fear me I promise. It's just.. if I don't know who you are, I might accidentally do something terrible.

@ftl
Thanks. Vampires, boooo.

Holy [poop] would I not say [poop] if I am a mail carrier.  [This neither confirms or denies that I know anything about mail carrying]

Yeah, I know.. Damn you eHalcyon, this suckks. My role is pretty genius, props.

I know it seems like I'm up to no good, but it really would be very beneficial for us both if I knew who he is. I can actually even tell the reason for that I guess, my role pm says he ran off with my wife (well, ex-wife now) and if I target him with my night action, I "won't be able to control my anger and will first kill him and then commit suicide out of sheer guilt". So, yeah, that's why. Other than that my role is rather pacifist. I do acknowledge there is a possibility eHalcyon is just trolling me and that dude isn't in this game, but I would rather not risk it if I didn't have to.

@Robz
Okay. No need to tell anything if you don't think it's useful, obviously. Looks like it was something rather unique either way, so I'm curious. No cults as per the OP, so we don't have to be afraid of the blue man group taking over at least.

wait, are you from se7en?

No. Is that the horror movie?

[cayvie]

yes, it's a serial killer movie to be precise

[Jorbles]

I heard the song, too. Not much of a Billy Talent fan so I don't know anything about what it refers to.

Insomniac's big pushes were for me, and ftl, as cayvie pointed out. This actually makes me trust ftl more as it looks to me like mafia is trying to set one of us up. Maybe they killed him so they could sheep his suspicions? Insomniac seems like he was probably a good kill choice for scum in general. He wasn't inclined to vote for cases he didn't believe in so he'd be difficult to influence, and he didn't come across as particularly scummy to many players. (At least I don't remember a lot of players saying they found him suspicious, only Lekkit.)

[cayvie]

vote: jorbles

you sound like you're congratulating yourself.

[Captain_Frisk]

vote: jorbles

you sound like you're congratulating yourself.

What do you mean by that cayvie?

[cayvie]

vote: jorbles

you sound like you're congratulating yourself.

What do you mean by that cayvie?

well, look at what he said:

I heard the song, too. Not much of a Billy Talent fan so I don't know anything about what it refers to.

Insomniac's big pushes were for me, and ftl, as cayvie pointed out. This actually makes me trust ftl more as it looks to me like mafia is trying to set one of us up. Maybe they killed him so they could sheep his suspicions? Insomniac seems like he was probably a good kill choice for scum in general. He wasn't inclined to vote for cases he didn't believe in so he'd be difficult to influence, and he didn't come across as particularly scummy to many players. (At least I don't remember a lot of players saying they found him suspicious, only Lekkit.)

"Insomniac seems like he was probably a good kill choice for scum in general."

He's like, well done, scum, you've really avoided suspicion by killing insomniac! Here's a bunch of reasons any scumteam would want him dead, so there's really no reason to look at the people he was suspicious of.

(I think it's likely that he had a part in killing Insomniac, if that wasn't clear)

[Robz888]

vote: jorbles

you sound like you're congratulating yourself.

What do you mean by that cayvie?

well, look at what he said:

I heard the song, too. Not much of a Billy Talent fan so I don't know anything about what it refers to.

Insomniac's big pushes were for me, and ftl, as cayvie pointed out. This actually makes me trust ftl more as it looks to me like mafia is trying to set one of us up. Maybe they killed him so they could sheep his suspicions? Insomniac seems like he was probably a good kill choice for scum in general. He wasn't inclined to vote for cases he didn't believe in so he'd be difficult to influence, and he didn't come across as particularly scummy to many players. (At least I don't remember a lot of players saying they found him suspicious, only Lekkit.)

"Insomniac seems like he was probably a good kill choice for scum in general."

He's like, well done, scum, you've really avoided suspicion by killing insomniac! Here's a bunch of reasons any scumteam would want him dead, so there's really no reason to look at the people he was suspicious of.

(I think it's likely that he had a part in killing Insomniac, if that wasn't clear)

Yeah, crystal clear. Vote: Jorbles

[Galzria]

... I don't see it. At least, Cayvie's meaning - and the supposed slip - aren't crystal clear to me, as Robz' suggests they are.

[Eevee]

vote: jorbles

you sound like you're congratulating yourself.

What do you mean by that cayvie?

well, look at what he said:

I heard the song, too. Not much of a Billy Talent fan so I don't know anything about what it refers to.

Insomniac's big pushes were for me, and ftl, as cayvie pointed out. This actually makes me trust ftl more as it looks to me like mafia is trying to set one of us up. Maybe they killed him so they could sheep his suspicions? Insomniac seems like he was probably a good kill choice for scum in general. He wasn't inclined to vote for cases he didn't believe in so he'd be difficult to influence, and he didn't come across as particularly scummy to many players. (At least I don't remember a lot of players saying they found him suspicious, only Lekkit.)

"Insomniac seems like he was probably a good kill choice for scum in general."

He's like, well done, scum, you've really avoided suspicion by killing insomniac! Here's a bunch of reasons any scumteam would want him dead, so there's really no reason to look at the people he was suspicious of.

(I think it's likely that he had a part in killing Insomniac, if that wasn't clear)

Yeah, crystal clear. Vote: Jorbles

Nice to see turning blue didn't make you change your ways. Btw, where are all the Eiffel 65 jokes?

[Galzria]

vote: jorbles

you sound like you're congratulating yourself.

What do you mean by that cayvie?

well, look at what he said:

I heard the song, too. Not much of a Billy Talent fan so I don't know anything about what it refers to.

Insomniac's big pushes were for me, and ftl, as cayvie pointed out. This actually makes me trust ftl more as it looks to me like mafia is trying to set one of us up. Maybe they killed him so they could sheep his suspicions? Insomniac seems like he was probably a good kill choice for scum in general. He wasn't inclined to vote for cases he didn't believe in so he'd be difficult to influence, and he didn't come across as particularly scummy to many players. (At least I don't remember a lot of players saying they found him suspicious, only Lekkit.)

"Insomniac seems like he was probably a good kill choice for scum in general."

He's like, well done, scum, you've really avoided suspicion by killing insomniac! Here's a bunch of reasons any scumteam would want him dead, so there's really no reason to look at the people he was suspicious of.

(I think it's likely that he had a part in killing Insomniac, if that wasn't clear)

Yeah, crystal clear. Vote: Jorbles

Nice to see turning blue didn't make you change your ways. Btw, where are all the Eiffel 65 jokes?

[jotheonah]

I'm thinking Arrested Development, myself. "I blue myself"

[jotheonah]

Dsell, do you have anything to report from the night?

[Dsell]

Dsell, do you have anything to report from the night?

Nothing of much consequence.

[ftl]

Well, insomniac is dead, he's got to be pretty blue about that.

[ftl]

Robz was there for the blue-ing; I'm surprised he didn't cyanyone do the kill.

[ftl]

....ok, on a more serious note, I don't know what to think. I think I remember I got sort of a town vibe on jorbles d1, but I completely don't agree with his reasoning today, and that post was def. pretty scummy. I'll have to reread his d1...

[cayvie]

People on the Watno wagon when it got to L-1:

Watno (7): Jorbles, jotheonah, Robz888, cayvie, Dsell, Archetype, ashersky

People on the ftl wagon at its highest point:

ftl (5): Insomniac, Galzria, jotheonah, shraeye, cayvie

People on the Archetype lynch:

Archetype {8}: Eevee, Dsell, ftl, cayvie, Galzria, Lekkit, shraeye, Archetype

Hmm, I guess this makes me look particularly wagon-happy. I find it interesting that Watno wasn't on any of them, preferring an ashersky vote the whole time. Captain_Frisk also avoided all three, sticking with a Dsell vote (despite making several side comments about Archetype).

Not sure what to conclude about this. I feel like the end of day 1 should be informative, since so much happened quickly, but I'm not seeing anything particularly interesting yet.

[Captain_Frisk]

Well - this is yet another lesson that self voting as town is a BAD IDEA (tm).

@ cayvie - I did make some comments about Archetype, because he looked pretty bad at the end there.  I might have been willing to hammer too, but then the crazy stuff happened overnight.

As for DSell - I felt like he was wagon happy - hopping on Archetype and Watno, both times with little reasoning.

[Captain_Frisk]

Bumpadump?

Galz - did the ice cream have any noticeable effect on you?  Obviously don't roleclaim - but do you have the sense that it was a scummy action?

[Galzria]

Bumpadump?

Galz - did the ice cream have any noticeable effect on you?  Obviously don't roleclaim - but do you have the sense that it was a scummy action?

Nothing at all. It was simply delicious. Very... Vanilla? I don't know. Nothing happened to my knowledge, but then, I had no action to take last night so if it were supposed to stop or modify my actions in any way it would've had nothing to stop/modify.

I need to reread Archetype's claims fully though. Didn't he say each person in the neighborhood had a shared list of actions they could take? I know he said they had X scoops amongst them - which basically makes them at the very least X-shot powers, if not JOAT (I need to reread exactly what Archtype claimed).

Either way, I think they get X shared scoops between them, and whatever they do is done in their Ice Cream flavor. Archetype was Chocolate. Joth is Vanilla. The third member is likely Strawberry then, creating a Neapolitan Neighborhood.

But to direct back to your question, it had no effect that I can tell. Whether it was investigate, jail, doctor, roleblock,out just Good Eats, I have no clue.

[Watno]

vote Captain Frisk

Since I am allowed to copy from PMs, I will do so to explain why:

Flavour name: [redacted due to mod warning]
Role name: Watcher
Alignment: Town

Abilities:

You’ve been through a great deal of hardship and you can’t say that you’ve come out unscathed.  Nonetheless, you’ve gotten through the worst of it with only a few dents and scratches to your paint-splattered chassis.  You are the CMYK War Machine 3000, a robot designed for the rough and tumble world of Paintball.  You are armed with two powerful paintball cannons -- they are literally your arms.

Each night, you may choose to target two players.  You either target two or none at all.  By splattering them with a healthy layer of paint (which may or may not be lead-based), you are able to discern which other players have targeted at least one of your two targets.  Your enhanced colour vision and image analysis algorithms allow you to spot the paint on those players, however they may have tried to wash it off.  You will cycle through CMYK paintball colours.  Aim carefully!

I targeted Insomiac and Jorbles, however something seems to have redirected from Jorbles to Robz.
Result i got:

But wait, there's more...

As day 2 begins, you see that two players are completely covered in cyan paint.  These are the ones that were originally hit by your paintballs.  Yeah, that paint won't be coming out for at least a day.

However, you also see that Captain_Frisk is covered in traces of cyan paint.  It looks like he tried to wash it off.  Where did that paint come from?

So Captain_Frisk is the only one who targeted Insomniac, who is now dead.


@cayvie Obviously I wasn't on my own wagon, and when the ftl and Archetype wagons happened I simply wasn't here.

I also heard Surprise, Surprise, but i can't access the youtube video in Germany 

[Captain_Frisk]

I did in fact target insomniac.  I strangled him:

Flavour name: Lazy Jack of All Trades
Role name: X-Shot Strongman Vig
Alignment: Town

Abilities:

You are truly a jack of all trades - and a master of none. Unfortunately, you spent all of your free time working out instead of practicing with weapons, learning how to track people, investigate them etc. On the plus side, you're pretty strong.

If you have any shots remaining, you may choose to kill someone at night. This kill is unblockable (breaks through doctor protection, bulletproof, etc.).

I'm not going to disclose the value of X.

I chose to target insomniac primarily based on #584

@Lekkit, I will say I am not what you think I am, and if I was it would still be a bad idea to try to lynch the SK day 1.

@Eevee Forgot I wanted to respond to your wanting to OMGUS me over the Jorbles thing. You should probably also note that I'm not the only experienced player who thinks I'm right ok. Robz has also voted for Jorbles, and Galz said that while he wouldn't yet he completely sees where I'm coming from.

Can't say anything about the ice cream though.

[Captain_Frisk]

I also received nothing @ end of night regarding cyan paint, washing it off etc.  Just Surprise Surprise.

[Robz888]

I interfered with watno in a way that makes me getting the paint make sense. So watno seems pretty truthful to me.

Frisk is a vigliante who killed Insomniac Night 1? Insomniac, the useful town player who often gets killed regrettably early? And now Frisk is withholding his number of shots so that we think he's useful and want to keep him? Yeah, okay.

Vote: Captain_Frisk, who is basically obvscum at this point.

[Captain_Frisk]

Shooting night 1 makes sense per theorel (i think) analysis from M8.  Conceling # of shots makes tons of sense.  Do you remember how much business we gave SFS in MIV for revealing the # of shots he had on his cop ability?

[ftl]

I can agree that shooting night 1 makes sense, especially if you have more than one shot... but shooting insomniac? Are you really saying that insom was the scummiest around?

[Watno]

Why didn't you say something about the quote you killed insomniac for in the thread yesterday? I find it hard to believe you shot him as a town vig if you never expressed any suspicion towards him.
Also your role pm looks to me like bits were left out, and the rest of the flavour doesn't exactly sound townish. Also I think the Role name being abbreviated (Vig instead of Vigilante) is strange.

I think its likely Frisk is a Serial Killer, gotta think about wether we actually want to lynch him in that case.

[Robz888]

Why didn't you say something about the quote you killed insomniac for in the thread yesterday? I find it hard to believe you shot him as a town vig if you never expressed any suspicion towards him.
Also your role pm looks to me like bits were left out, and the rest of the flavour doesn't exactly sound townish. Also I think the Role name being abbreviated (Vig instead of Vigilante) is strange.

I think its likely Frisk is a Serial Killer, gotta think about wether we actually want to lynch him in that case.

Yes we want to lynch him.

[ftl]

Why SK and not a mafia?

Vote: Captain_Frisk

[Captain_Frisk]

Why didn't you say something about the quote you killed insomniac for in the thread yesterday? I find it hard to believe you shot him as a town vig if you never expressed any suspicion towards him.
Also your role pm looks to me like bits were left out, and the rest of the flavour doesn't exactly sound townish. Also I think the Role name being abbreviated (Vig instead of Vigilante) is strange.

I think its likely Frisk is a Serial Killer, gotta think about wether we actually want to lynch him in that case.

Didn't hit me until re-read.

[jotheonah]

GUYS. SOmething doesn't add up.

-Watno should have seen everyone who targeted Insomniac.
-The flavor suggests two people killed Insomniac - a strangler and a scoop-basher.
-Watno only saw one person.

Ninja kill? What gives?

[Watno]

Why SK and not a mafia?

Vote: Captain_Frisk

Because of the flavour and his PM text fitting quite good overall (I assume it's parts of his real pm)

[Captain_Frisk]

Guys - you guys can quick lynch me if you want, but I think the much more pro town thing to do is figure out where that ice cream came from.

[Galzria]

Frisk, what does it feel like to load up the forums and see the message "You've received a PM!" - and to just know, before you ever even open it, that you've received another scum role?

[jotheonah]

Yeah, it's a doubly mysterious kill. What do you guys think is the likelihood that 1 of the 3 Ice Creamers is scum?

[ftl]

Reasonable. I did ask you whether you thought the other icecreamer did it. You're the one who knows who it is and thus whether they're scummy.

[Galzria]

Yeah, it's a doubly mysterious kill. What do you guys think is the likelihood that 1 of the 3 Ice Creamers is scum?

Rather high.

"Neighbors are essentially unconfirmed Masons where the moderator honestly acknowledges no expectation of one Neighbor having the same alignment as any other Neighbor. In an ideal world, the alignment of any Neighbor would be as random as the alignment of the player itself. In practice - and especially in Themed games - Neighbor is seen as an excuse to mix scum Neighbors where they would have been called bastard for doing so with a Masonry."

"If you are one of three Neighbors, chances are reasonable that one of the other Neighbors is scum. "

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Neighbor

[Captain_Frisk]

Frisk, what does it feel like to load up the forums and see the message "You've received a PM!" - and to just know, before you ever even open it, that you've received another scum role?

I can't really answer this without discussing other games that I'm alive in, but I didn't receive a scum role in this game, although I did think about not firing for fear that this would happen and you guys would all use the "frisk is always scum" excuse.

I can say that as I kept flipping scum in 8,9,10, that it wasn't bad, because it wasn't clear how freaking hard it is to play scum in 4 games at the same fricking time. 

[Robz888]

Frisk, what does it feel like to load up the forums and see the message "You've received a PM!" - and to just know, before you ever even open it, that you've received another scum role?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA yes

[Captain_Frisk]

Frisk, what does it feel like to load up the forums and see the message "You've received a PM!" - and to just know, before you ever even open it, that you've received another scum role?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA yes

Read M9 for O's humorous reaction to being my scum buddy in 2 games in a row.

[Galzria]

Frisk, what does it feel like to load up the forums and see the message "You've received a PM!" - and to just know, before you ever even open it, that you've received another scum role?

I can't really answer this without discussing other games that I'm alive in, but I didn't receive a scum role in this game, although I did think about not firing for fear that this would happen and you guys would all use the "frisk is always scum" excuse.

I can say that as I kept flipping scum in 8,9,10, that it wasn't bad, because it wasn't clear how freaking hard it is to play scum in 4 games at the same fricking time.

I haven't voted for you yet. I'm still debating what I think of the claim - and if false, what I think of lynching what is likely a SK role - so early.

[jotheonah]

Yeah, it's a doubly mysterious kill. What do you guys think is the likelihood that 1 of the 3 Ice Creamers is scum?

Rather high.

"Neighbors are essentially unconfirmed Masons where the moderator honestly acknowledges no expectation of one Neighbor having the same alignment as any other Neighbor. In an ideal world, the alignment of any Neighbor would be as random as the alignment of the player itself. In practice - and especially in Themed games - Neighbor is seen as an excuse to mix scum Neighbors where they would have been called bastard for doing so with a Masonry."

"If you are one of three Neighbors, chances are reasonable that one of the other Neighbors is scum. "

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Neighbor

Ok, then I need to come forward with this.

The third (and only un-outed) member of my QT is Jorbles. Since Archetype is conf. town and I'm conf. town to myself, that makes him, in Galz/mafiascum's words, highly likely to be scum. In addition, he's already being suspected for unrelated reasons. Third, he claimed his role to me as Roleblocker, which is at least equally likely to be scum as town.

Fourth, Jorbles knew I was Vanilla Ice Cream-themed.  If there is a scum team that can choose their flavor (which makes some sense in a game where flavor is key), and they needed a flavor attached to a townie to throw out on the first day, then Jorbles being on that team would explain their knowing mine (although, given Archetype spilled ALL THE BEANS, this isn't saying that much.)

[ftl]

unvote jorbles reread time, I didn't do it last time I said I would but I'm rereading him now for realz

[Dsell]

C_F is virtually obvscum, but let's flesh out this paintball-and-icecream case a bit more.

I agree with jo that it seems likely enough that Jorbles is scum, although I've had mostly a town read on him this game.

Jorbles should have been covered with paint, but Robz became covered in paint instead. Only Frisk has admitted to killing Insom, which means there should be someone else out there with paint on them (unless we're dealing with a ninja kill). That could suggest that Robz performed the kill.

They used the vanilla flavor, either because they copied jo's role somehow (since it doesn't appear to be jo, unless he's the ninja) or because they can choose their flavor.

I'm not sure where this all leads us, but perhaps someone has/will have at some point the missing pieces to this puzzle.

[jotheonah]

Robz, if you bus-drove Jorbles somehow, it might be good for you to tell us now. I get a sense that it might solve several mysteries.

[Galzria]

Yeah, it's a doubly mysterious kill. What do you guys think is the likelihood that 1 of the 3 Ice Creamers is scum?

Rather high.

"Neighbors are essentially unconfirmed Masons where the moderator honestly acknowledges no expectation of one Neighbor having the same alignment as any other Neighbor. In an ideal world, the alignment of any Neighbor would be as random as the alignment of the player itself. In practice - and especially in Themed games - Neighbor is seen as an excuse to mix scum Neighbors where they would have been called bastard for doing so with a Masonry."

"If you are one of three Neighbors, chances are reasonable that one of the other Neighbors is scum. "

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Neighbor

Ok, then I need to come forward with this.

The third (and only un-outed) member of my QT is Jorbles. Since Archetype is conf. town and I'm conf. town to myself, that makes him, in Galz/mafiascum's words, highly likely to be scum. In addition, he's already being suspected for unrelated reasons. Third, he claimed his role to me as Roleblocker, which is at least equally likely to be scum as town.

Fourth, Jorbles knew I was Vanilla Ice Cream-themed.  If there is a scum team that can choose their flavor (which makes some sense in a game where flavor is key), and they needed a flavor attached to a townie to throw out on the first day, then Jorbles being on that team would explain their knowing mine (although, given Archetype spilled ALL THE BEANS, this isn't saying that much.)

"Roleblockers have been known to be of either alignment, though Roleblocker is probably the most common Mafia power role."

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Roleblocker

-----

Any reason for "spilled ALL THE BEANS"? Given that we're tracking beans D1...

Now, it's interesting that I had Vanilla Ice-Cream shoved in my mouth to no appearing ill-effects. You claimed to have not targeted Insomniac, and when I asked if you targeted me, you answered 'Yes'. This claim was not challenged by Jorbles, so I must conclude that it's true (At least, that you targeted me. I don't know about the Insomniac bit). Watno claims that he can target two people per night, so it wouldn't be unreasonable for you to do so as well.

Watno, however, claimed to only have tracking results on Frisk targeting Insomniac, which is odd based on his Role-Claim, since it's apparent that two people targeted Insomniac last night. Robz says that he interfered with Watno's shot on Jorbles, which is why HE is covered in paint instead. If Jorbles is scum, I'm interested in exactly what Robz did, and what he has to say about Jorbles.

Obviously Cayvie saw a case for Jorbles to be scum based on Jorbles D2 post. I admit that I didn't see that myself, but Robz jumped all over it.

A basic breakdown then, if I were to hazard a VERY early guess:

CF is a Serial Killer, who targeted Insomniac last night (He could also be X-shot Vig).
Watno is scum, paired with Jorbles, who targeted Insomniac last night.
The reason Watno targeted Jorbles, was to see who, if anyone, did something to his scumbuddy. The reason he targeted Insomniac was to see who he could frame for the kill of Insomniac instead of Jorbles.
Watno claims to have only seen CF, thus giving him a clean lynch on either a town PR Vig, or SK - both of which are good for scum to see go.
Robz interfered with Watno's shot on Jorbles. Why?

Cayvie looks clean to me, and Robz is on the fence. Vote: Jorbles If Jorbles is town, Joth is scum. If Jorbles is scum, there's a good chance so is Watno.

Those are my takes on the events anyway. Thoughts?

[Captain_Frisk]

What is it with Ehalc and crazy roles?  In RMM1, I was a cop OR Watcher + Tracker, and now watno is a DOUBLE watcher?

I thought in role madness we all needed weak roles to make up for the fact that we had so many?

[Dsell]

Galz, I like your reasoning except for one thing. Why would watno out C_F today instead of just night killing him? It can misdirect the lynch but it also gives the town something to analyze and trace back to them (if watno and jorbles are scumbuddies).

But then I have to think of Robz in MVI, who outed eHalc during the day instead of NK'ing him, which led eHal's team to the realization that Robz himself was scum. That was a mistake, but it shows that it could definitely happen.

[Dsell]

What is it with Ehalc and crazy roles?  In RMM1, I was a cop OR Watcher + Tracker, and now watno is a DOUBLE watcher?

I thought in role madness we all needed weak roles to make up for the fact that we had so many?

Are you COMPLAINING about it??

[Captain_Frisk]

What is it with Ehalc and crazy roles?  In RMM1, I was a cop OR Watcher + Tracker, and now watno is a DOUBLE watcher?

I thought in role madness we all needed weak roles to make up for the fact that we had so many?

Are you COMPLAINING about it??

I'm questioning the legitimacy, given that eHalc thought I was OP previously.

[Robz888]

Are we allowed to post mod-supplied information in this game? If we are, I'll just go ahead and put it out there.

[Captain_Frisk]

I haven't been modkilled yet.  I think we're allowed to quote as long as you don't include a link / timestamp.

[jotheonah]

... I would check with eHalc first.

[jotheonah]

on the other hand:

1. You may not quote private Moderator-supplied information (either real or fabricated) of any kind.  Paraphrasing (for role claims, etc.) is acceptable. My definition of "quote" means quoting the PM with author name, timestamp, and link intact.  You may claim that something is taken word-for-word from your role PM and you may use quote tags so long as the verifying info is omitted from the tag.

[Galzria]

"1. You may not quote private Moderator-supplied information (either real or fabricated) of any kind.  Paraphrasing (for role claims, etc.) is acceptable. My definition of "quote" means quoting the PM with author name, timestamp, and link intact.  You may claim that something is taken word-for-word from your role PM and you may use quote tags so long as the verifying info is omitted from the tag."

[Galzria]

Joth ninja

[Robz888]

I'll just explain it. It's pretty vague in either case. I am a "Thief." I target someone, and then I get something from them that relates to their flavor. Other stuff can happen, like roleblocking them, or getting an ability from them... Yeah, this isn't much of an explanation. That's literally all I was told.

I picked Watno, who was my scumread yesterday, why not? I was told that the cyan paintball exploded all over me, and I didn't get anything from him. So I don't know if I roleblocked or absorbed his action in some way.

[jotheonah]

So that's interesting. That does tend to implicate Watno-Jorbles, as per Galzria's theory.

[jotheonah]

(Since it fails to explain Jorbles not having blue paint on him). I think we need to lynch Jorbles today.

[Dsell]

(Since it fails to explain Jorbles not having blue paint on him). I think we need to lynch Jorbles today.

I would be fine with either Jorbles or Frisk, but I feel better about a Frisk lynch because it is a surer lynch and because I have somewhat more of a town read on Jorbles than on Frisk. It's still possible that there's another explanation to all this, though Galz' theory is indeed quite good.

[Robz888]

I think I still prefer a Frisk lynch, too. Is there some reason to think Jorbles is the scum, rather than Jotheonah, for instance?

[Watno]

From a flavor point of view it makes sense taht when Robz tried to steal something from me, he got in the way of the paintball and therefor was hit instead of Jorbles.

Btw, the double watcher thing I have isn't really better than a single-target watcher, since I don't get to know which of my targets was targeted by the other player who targeted them.

While it's likely that one of the remaining ice-creams is scum, there is no guarantee taht this is the case, and I agree with Robz that we don't really have evidence why it should be Jorbles rather than joth.

[jotheonah]

If I were scum, I would have killed Jorbles and kept my mouth shut. Then there would have been nothing to link the flavor to me.

[Galzria]

I think I still prefer a Frisk lynch, too. Is there some reason to think Jorbles is the scum, rather than Jotheonah, for instance?

You're giving me scummy vibes too, but for different reasons than facts.

Why Jorbles and not Joth?

A) Jorbles' post today, which Cayvie pointed out and you jumped all over, read in Cayvie's words as "Scum who is explaining exactly why they killed Insomniac"

B) Watno's story doesn't add up. He is a backwards-tracker, who tracked Insomniac, yet claims to have only seen one person target him. We know that two people did. Now, if he is scum and was expecting his scum buddy to target Insomniac for the kill, he could track the kill-target to see if there is anybody that is easy to frame. In this case, along came CF. To me this reads like scum who only reported one name instead of two, because the second person is his scumbuddy. The fact that we, as a whole, have TWO confirmed people targeting Insomniac last night really works against Watno here.

C) Who else did Watno target? Jorbles. This might be random targeting, or it might not be. However, because I've already reason to suspect Watno, and Jorbles is already on the radar, I have to consider the side of the story where it's NOT random - mainly, would backward-tracking Watno target his scumbuddy? And the answer could very well be yes. If he's worried that somebody might investigate or in some other way target his scumbuddy, knowing who that person is coming into today could be valuable information.

D) Joth came right out and said that he did NOT target Insomniac. While that doesn't exactly carry much weight, his overall concern that he's being framed DOES read town. Furthermore, he did NOT state who he targeted, but when I asked him if it was me, he answered "Yes". Now I know that I was targeted with Vanilla Ice-Cream last night. There are effectively only two people that could do this. One is Joth. The other is, presumably, the third person in his ice-cream neighborhood. Jorbles posted AFTER Joth did, but did not challange Joth's claim. Therefore I must believe that Joth did indeed target me with his ice-cream. This makes me LESS inclined to believe that he ALSO targeted Insomniac, and that Insomniac died, whereas I did not.

E) In a Neighborhood of 3 players of unknown alignment in a themed game, it's highly likely that one of them is scum. Archetype was not. That means that Joth or Jorbles is. For all the reasons above, I lean towards that being Jorbles. Furthermore, his lynch is extremely informative. If Jorbles is scum, there's a good chance so is Watno. If Jorbles is NOT scum, then Joth almost certainly is.

F) There is no case against Frisk outside of "I think he's lying about his PM". I do as well. But if he's a Vig, he can be helpful to the town, and if he's a SK he's not directly unhelpful. It would be the stupidest thing in the world however to go around lynching your claimed Vig simply because you think he's lying. Especially when you've got almost certain scum lined up. We can either direct CF's kills, or instruct him not to kill. I've got to believe that in a Role-Madness game, there's going to be a way to verify CF's claim down the line. In the meantime, he's a known entity. I think lynching him would be a terrible idea today.

[jotheonah]

E) In a Neighborhood of 3 players of unknown alignment in a themed game, it's highly likely that one of them is scum. Archetype was not. That means that Joth or Jorbles is. For all the reasons above, I lean towards that being Jorbles. Furthermore, his lynch is extremely informative. If Jorbles is scum, there's a good chance so is Watno. If Jorbles is NOT scum, then Joth almost certainly is.

Which is another reason scum-me pushing a Jorbles lynch is unlikely.

[Robz888]

I also think Jorbles is far more likely scum than Joth. I just think Frisk is almost certainly scum. But I am fine with Jorbles. Vote: Jorbles

[jotheonah]

Let's wait for Jorbles to show up before we pile too many more votes on him.

[ftl]

I think I still prefer a Frisk lynch, too. Is there some reason to think Jorbles is the scum, rather than Jotheonah, for instance?

You're giving me scummy vibes too, but for different reasons than facts.

mee tooooooo I don't like Robz but I have no real case on him We should have lynched him D1 but today we've probably got better things to do

BTW, insomniac also suspected jorbles, isn't that right? That's a strike against him.

[Captain_Frisk]

Quick reread on Jorbles:

Weird discussion about whispering re: Shraeye
Votes: Dsell in #331 for hopping on wagon easy.
Responds to insomniac's accusation of no content in 485. (Something I agree with given that I only had 2 notes prior to this post)
Votes: Watno in #560 - for jumping on asher - This is a position I agree with.
Defensive Post #583 - addresses quotes from 4 people (Watno, ftl, Lekkit, eevee)
Defends rapid watno wagon in #696 - suggesting that scum might day 1 bus.
Big vote analysis post in #722 - this is the only thing thus far that's given me a pro town read - in that he did work.    Votes DSell again.

He's only had one post today - the one that cayvie jumped on him for.

I heard the song, too. Not much of a Billy Talent fan so I don't know anything about what it refers to.

Insomniac's big pushes were for me, and ftl, as cayvie pointed out. This actually makes me trust ftl more as it looks to me like mafia is trying to set one of us up. Maybe they killed him so they could sheep his suspicions? Insomniac seems like he was probably a good kill choice for scum in general. He wasn't inclined to vote for cases he didn't believe in so he'd be difficult to influence, and he didn't come across as particularly scummy to many players. (At least I don't remember a lot of players saying they found him suspicious, only Lekkit.)

His profile seems to indicate that he's on in the afternoon / evening time.  Hopefully that will be soon.

[Galzria]

I think I still prefer a Frisk lynch, too. Is there some reason to think Jorbles is the scum, rather than Jotheonah, for instance?

You're giving me scummy vibes too, but for different reasons than facts.

mee tooooooo I don't like Robz but I have no real case on him We should have lynched him D1 but today we've probably got better things to do

BTW, insomniac also suspected jorbles, isn't that right? That's a strike against him.

Well, to pull a quote from the man himself:

"The take away is Insomniac has stubborn reads, but they're right! "

...Actually... I need to go change something on my Profile.

[eHalcyon]

Vote Count 1.2

Captain_Frisk (1): Watno
jorbles (3): cayvie, Galzria, Robz888

Not voting (9): ashersky, Captain_Frisk, Dsell, Eevee, ftl, Jorbles, jotheonah, Lekkit, shraeye

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Lynch deadline: Monday, October 22, 7:00pm MDT

[Captain_Frisk]

Vote: ehalcyon. 

Vote Count 1.2

Captain_Frisk (1): Watno
jorbles (3): cayvie, Galzria, Robz888

Not voting (9): ashersky, Dsell, Eevee, ftl, Jorbles, jotheonah, shraeye, Voltaire, Watno

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Lynch deadline: Monday, October 22, 7:00pm MDT

[eHalcyon]

Oops.  Should be Lekkit, since the replacement.  Fixed!  Going back to fix the start post too...

[Dsell]

Frisk is also missing from the votecount, with Watno on there twice.

[eHalcyon]

Frisk is also missing from the votecount, with Watno on there twice.

Mixed up who was voting for whom and deleted the wrong name from the Not Voting list.  Fixed!

[cayvie]

I'm trying to decide whether I believe Frisk's claim or not.

I can buy a vig shooting Insomniac N1; I've certainly had strong erroneous scumreads on Insomniac in the past--it's to the point that I have started ignoring gut scumreads I get on him.

It would be hilarious if the scum turned out to be Volt/Lekkit, ftl, Jorbles, and Frisk (i.e. everyone Insomniac voted for D1).

[Dsell]

I don't think I believe Frisk's claim, but Galz is making me want to vote Jorbles. We can direct Frisk's kill tonight based on Jorble's flip, and then we'd be in a pretty good spot tomorrow.

[cayvie]

I don't think I believe Frisk's claim, but Galz is making me want to vote Jorbles. We can direct Frisk's kill tonight based on Jorble's flip, and then we'd be in a pretty good spot tomorrow.

Surely if we're directing kills, the correct option is no-kill.

[Dsell]

I don't think I believe Frisk's claim, but Galz is making me want to vote Jorbles. We can direct Frisk's kill tonight based on Jorble's flip, and then we'd be in a pretty good spot tomorrow.

Surely if we're directing kills, the correct option is no-kill.

How so? I mean, that'd be a fine option, but Galz pointed out that if Jorbles is NOT scum, Joth almost certainly is. And if he is scum, there is a pretty compelling case for Watno being scum too.

[cayvie]

That's reasonable, I guess.

I just feel (after running Mafia IX) that a slower game is more to town's advantage. The bottom line being, more days = more lynches = good for town.

I suppose a group-directed nightkill is nearly as good as a lynch though.

OTOH, we don't know how many shots he has (if he's a vig).

[Galzria]

That's reasonable, I guess.

I just feel (after running Mafia IX) that a slower game is more to town's advantage. The bottom line being, more days = more lynches = good for town.

I suppose a group-directed nightkill is nearly as good as a lynch though.

OTOH, we don't know how many shots he has (if he's a vig).

I'm slightly in favor of directing a no-kill, but would be agreeable to a shot based on flip. My concern with shooting though is the potential for a bus driver, or other redirect. We have a lot more control over kills during the day, and we don't need to sit there WIFOM'ing unexplained/unexpected night time results.

[Dsell]

That's reasonable, I guess.

I just feel (after running Mafia IX) that a slower game is more to town's advantage. The bottom line being, more days = more lynches = good for town.

I suppose a group-directed nightkill is nearly as good as a lynch though.

OTOH, we don't know how many shots he has (if he's a vig).

I think it's pretty likely he has at least one more shot left, being a Jack-of-all-trades variant. And if not, he can alert us to that easily enough without giving too much of his role away.

[jotheonah]

That's reasonable, I guess.

I just feel (after running Mafia IX) that a slower game is more to town's advantage. The bottom line being, more days = more lynches = good for town.

I suppose a group-directed nightkill is nearly as good as a lynch though.

OTOH, we don't know how many shots he has (if he's a vig).

I think it's pretty likely he has at least one more shot left, being a Jack-of-all-trades variant. And if not, he can alert us to that easily enough without giving too much of his role away.

I would put exactly no stock in that. eHalcyon probably called the role Jack of All Trades as a joke/troll.

[Dsell]

That's reasonable, I guess.

I just feel (after running Mafia IX) that a slower game is more to town's advantage. The bottom line being, more days = more lynches = good for town.

I suppose a group-directed nightkill is nearly as good as a lynch though.

OTOH, we don't know how many shots he has (if he's a vig).

I think it's pretty likely he has at least one more shot left, being a Jack-of-all-trades variant. And if not, he can alert us to that easily enough without giving too much of his role away.

I would put exactly no stock in that. eHalcyon probably called the role Jack of All Trades as a joke/troll.

What is your point though? Either he has a night kill and uses it like we ask, or he doesn't have one or doesn't use it like we ask and we lynch him.

[Robz888]

Frisk should certainly be instructed not to kill tonight.

[Robz888]

Well, I take that back. If Jorbles flips town, he should shoot Jo. Other than that, no he should take no action. Mostly, I don't think he's town-aligned anyway.

[Galzria]

I figured out the scum vibes I'm getting from Robz!

But it doesn't fit a story of facts that we have. Hmm...

If Robz were a "Mafia" (for lack of a better scumteam name) Thief, he could've stolen Joth's flavor last night and applied it to the Insomniac kill.

Robz claims to have targeted Watno, who in turn claims to have targeted Jorbles. If THEY are scum together, it's perfectly reasonable that they would've come up with this lie before the day began. We have no other confirmation outside their word that Watno did indeed target Jorbles, and that Robz got in the way.

But would scum Watno tell us the truth about targeting his partner with his other shot? Does Jorbles/Watno make more sense than Robz/Watno?

Robz gave me scummy vibes all D1, and he's seemed so very eager all game to lynch. Does a Robz/Watno storyline fit better? I can't decide.

And on top of that, I'm left with the Joth/Jorbles debate.

Ugh. I hate not knowing, and much like SFS, I hate being wrong. Hmm.

[jotheonah]

Well, I take that back. If Jorbles flips town, he should shoot Jo. Other than that, no he should take no action. Mostly, I don't think he's town-aligned anyway.

I don't love this. It is possible that eHalc subverted expectations and we're both town. If that is the case, I would very much like a chance to make my case for why I'm valuable to town.  Basically, I want to shoot this "has to be him or me" thing down right now. At least 1 scum in the QT is likely but by no means certain.

[ftl]

BTW, Robz, you can post your role to clarify how it works... as long as you don't include the original quote tags. Just like other claimants have done.

You may claim that something is taken word-for-word from your role PM and you may use quote tags so long as the verifying info is omitted from the tag.

[Robz888]

BTW, Robz, you can post your role to clarify how it works... as long as you don't include the original quote tags. Just like other claimants have done.

You may claim that something is taken word-for-word from your role PM and you may use quote tags so long as the verifying info is omitted from the tag.

Eh, I've said what I needed to say.

[Voltgloss]

[ftl]

OK. I'm trying to summarize what we know happened at night, or what is claimed to.

Insomniac died, via badass-black-glove and scoop.
C_F claims to be a strongman vig who targeted Insom.
Watno tried to Watch Insomniac and Jorbles. He successfully watched C_F target Insom, and has gotten no other results.
Robz claims to be a "thief" who targeted Watno, getting blued and thus interacting in some unknown way with Watno's power.
Jorbles claims to be a roleblocker.

Possible explanations for the tracking results:
1) C_F scum who killed Insom
2) Watno is on a scumteam; his scummate killed Insom and Watno watched Insom to know who to frame. In that case, the death was by ice cream scoop and this implicates Jorbles or Joth.
3) Jorbles or joth are scum, and they had a ninja ability to avoid tracking.

I think an obvious question is - JORBLES!!! WHO DID YOU ROLEBLOCK LAST NIGHT AND WHY!!!

[Dsell]

It's also possible that Joth was framed for the kill by scumRobz. Robz was also covered in paint, so it seems impossible to tell whether the two people covered in paint targeted each other.

[Dsell]

I would say that Robz being scum relies on Jorbles being scum as well (to know about the flavor) but Archetype revealed enough yesterday that someone who can invent flavor could have chosen that.

[ftl]

Oh hey. Maybe Robz is a thief and targeted JORBLES and stole his flavor. And got blued.

[Dsell]

Oh hey. Maybe Robz is a thief and targeted JORBLES and stole his flavor. And got blued.

Presumably Jorbles has a different flavor of ice cream, though?

[ftl]

oh. Hm. True.

[Jorbles]

Okay sorry for putting you guys in the dark for so long. My flavour is Strawberry and my role is Roleblocker. I am the other Neighbour.

As for night actions last night I targeted Dsell. I'm surprised he didn't mention that he received a scoop of ice cream as he should have received that message especially with all this Ice Cream talk that was floating around.

I know joth's role, but I'm hesitant to out him (even though he outed me) as I am not at all certain he is scum. I do admit that in a three person neighbourhood it's possible that one is scum and two are town, but I actually think that we might all be town and here's why. I mentioned that I'd worked out that we're Neopolitan in the neighbourhood QT, but not here. Galz worked it out too, which may mean he's clever, but it might also mean that he had been told all the flavours by joth already as we'd already flavour claimed in our QT. (I know I know, this is inconsistent with my anti flavour stance in the main thread, but I didn't want to share with everyone, just the neighbourhood.) This makes me slightly suspicious of joth and Galz, but I have evidence on the other hand too.

The clue said "Neo is the one" and the people in the ice cream neighbourhood are all the flavours of NEOpolitan ice cream. Anyhow it's possible that this is a coincidence, but I think not. I think that was a clue that we're actually all town, and that the three of us were supposed to figure it out and using our powers together become a townie powerhouse. Assuming we think that clue actually had some meaning and wasn't just eHal trolling. Archetype dying yesterday kinda nixed that, but it does make me think that joth might be town. (I know I am town.)

I'm still confused how joth's flavour got involved in the killing. Maybe there's a scum player who can incriminate someone in the death with a flavour of another player? (or maybe I missed something in the reading, sorry, there was a lot to catch up on.)

[Captain_Frisk]

Dsell?

[ftl]

Nope, we still don't know how joth's flavor got involved in the killing. Unless joth did the killing in addition to targeting galz.

[cayvie]

It's spelled NEApolitan. I'm unconvinced that "neo is the one" is a hint about your vegan ice cream town.

[Jorbles]

It's spelled NEApolitan. I'm unconvinced that "neo is the one" is a hint about your vegan ice cream town.

Oh you're right. Damn, I was so sure I was onto something there.

[Dsell]

I received a scoop of Strawberry ice cream last night. It wasn't in my original PM, but was just sent in a correction a while ago.

I haven't caught up on the thread, I just saw Jorbles' post. So I'm not sure how this affects things.

[Dsell]

Oh jk there are like no new posts except Jorbles'. XD

[Robz888]

Unvote

[Eevee]

Oh f me, I miss ONE DAY and all hell breaks loose. Probably a long post of my thoughts on everything:

My take: I think Frisk should disclose the number of shots he has. I don't think we want to lynch him, because if his kills are flavored like that always (is this a safe assumption?), he won't be able to kill for very long if he is a serial killer and I don't think mafia ever strangles? So, I think he is suspect enough that he needs to full claim and sort of do what town wants him to do (to prove himself), that way we can also benefit from him if he's a serial killer and he can't really win because he'd need to stop killing when we'd want to or we could just lynch him. So, while I suspect Frisk obviously, I don't think he is the best lynch for today. Also one point in favor of him being truthful is that the claim came in a believable way. Scum has often delayed claiming (to write up the pm) or messed something up in the flavor or something, but that looks believable and is how he'd do it if he was truthful. So while this obviously doesn't make him town, I think it's worth noting scum trips somewhere in making the claim some nonzero % of the time. Experienced scum like Frisk less often though, I would think.

GUYS. SOmething doesn't add up.

-Watno should have seen everyone who targeted Insomniac.
-The flavor suggests two people killed Insomniac - a strangler and a scoop-basher.
-Watno only saw one person.

Ninja kill? What gives?

This is key imo. Neither strangling nor crushing people with an ice cream scone sounds very ninja-y, so I think it's almost certain two people killed Insomniac (poor guy). And if that's the case, it makes Frisk's claim a lot more believable / at least means he pretty much can't be mafia, and as I explained above, if the worst case is he is a serial killer who town pretty much controls / will catch if he goes solo, I don't think we want to lynch him. Also strangling isn't something mafia usually does flavorwise (I think), so that too points towards SK/vig.

I like this post.

Galz, I like your reasoning except for one thing. Why would watno out C_F today instead of just night killing him? It can misdirect the lynch but it also gives the town something to analyze and trace back to them (if watno and jorbles are scumbuddies).

But then I have to think of Robz in MVI, who outed eHalc during the day instead of NK'ing him, which led eHal's team to the realization that Robz himself was scum. That was a mistake, but it shows that it could definitely happen.

Possibly to gain town cred by finding scum (serial killer is scum still)? Scum wants to fake scumhunting efforts, so it must be tempting. Also that way they could try to make us "waste" our lynch on Frisk and leave their nightkill to be whoever they'd want, controlling a bigger % of the deaths.

And I like this post a lot too. I'll Vote: Jorbles for the reasons in this post + what I wrote above. And Frisk should be given direct orders and get lynched if he disobeys them. Shooting Watno if Jorbles flips scum and shooting joth if Jorbles flips town is fine by me, or not shooting at all. I maybe like not shooting better a) because that's worse for Frisk if he is a serial killer and b) because killing people without letting them defend themselves (which they couldn't do at night) is not fun / might be dangerous although both these guys have already claimed so less so here.


One scumread I'd like to note, even though I don't think it's worth pursuing today. But in case I'm not around tomorrow or forget or something: Lekkit!
A) He hasn't been around today at all. If we indeed caught his scumbuddy, makes a lot of sense to refrain from posting because you might either implicate yourself or contribute to actually making the lynch happen. I see not commenting and seeing where it goes a possible scum strategy. I do realize it's only been one day and saying this in my own first post on the matter is a bit hypocritical, but I wasn't around and at the very least want to prod Lekkit into commenting and participating.
B) I think his position on the archetype wagon was the scummiest (post 743 if you want to go back and read). After archetype's flip I read back to examine the wagon, and Lekkit was the guy who seemed most like he joined it because the entire town thought it was the "normal" thing to do (Frisk is another I think is guilty of this). But again I sort of feel hypocritica blaming anyone for anything archetype-related because I pushed the case so hard and basically FoS'd anyone who DIDN'T join the wagon I started on a townie so.. But yeah, wanted this out there.

@Dsell
I think it verifies he roleblocked you last night, but it's not like scum roleblocker couldn't have done that.

@Robz
Why, am I missing something?

[Robz888]

Jorbles reaction seemed fairly townish to me, but what do I know.

[Dsell]

Galz, were you roleblocked last night too? Because our flavor with the scoop-in-the-mouth is the same. But it seems weird to me that Strawberry and Vanilla would have the same effect. Archetype had a specific role, tracker, yet these guys have the same one? That seems weird. Unless it's just the same "flavor" (ie scoop in the mouth) for two different roles.

[ashersky]

OK. I'm trying to summarize what we know happened at night, or what is claimed to.

Insomniac died, via badass-black-glove and scoop.
C_F claims to be a strongman vig who targeted Insom.
Watno tried to Watch Insomniac and Jorbles. He successfully watched C_F target Insom, and has gotten no other results.
Robz claims to be a "thief" who targeted Watno, getting blued and thus interacting in some unknown way with Watno's power.
Jorbles claims to be a roleblocker.

Possible explanations for the tracking results:
1) C_F scum who killed Insom
2) Watno is on a scumteam; his scummate killed Insom and Watno watched Insom to know who to frame. In that case, the death was by ice cream scoop and this implicates Jorbles or Joth.
3) Jorbles or joth are scum, and they had a ninja ability to avoid tracking.

I think an obvious question is - JORBLES!!! WHO DID YOU ROLEBLOCK LAST NIGHT AND WHY!!!

Man, a lot going on here, sorry I've been out.  I tend to believe C_F's claim, but find the rest to be at best varying levels of scummy.  I wanted to point out that the bolded line above stuck out to me -- you'd have to know someone else was going to kill insom along with your partner to choose to watch for someone to frame, which seems pretty tough.

The Robz Thief claim sounds made up, but who knows in this type of game?  If using the "thief" power on Watno would make him cyan instead of Jorbles, why would the paint still hit Insom?  He's a half-thief that only worked on one of two of Watno's targets?  Doesn't make sense to me.  Like if "getting something from them" is the paint, that's fine, but wouldn't work with blocking the Jorbles paintball.  If he was "roleblocking" as Robz mentioned, there should have been no paint on anyone else...

Eh, I think Robz is lying, so I'll stamp my Vote: Robz for now.

[Galzria]

Galz, were you roleblocked last night too? Because our flavor with the scoop-in-the-mouth is the same. But it seems weird to me that Strawberry and Vanilla would have the same effect. Archetype had a specific role, tracker, yet these guys have the same one? That seems weird. Unless it's just the same "flavor" (ie scoop in the mouth) for two different roles.

I - literally - had nothing to do last night, so I have no clue if I was roleblocked/doctored/investigated/tracked/jailed/bussed/etc. I spent the whole night pondering the meaning of Surprise Surprise according to my D2 flavour text.

[Eevee]

OK. I'm trying to summarize what we know happened at night, or what is claimed to.

Insomniac died, via badass-black-glove and scoop.
C_F claims to be a strongman vig who targeted Insom.
Watno tried to Watch Insomniac and Jorbles. He successfully watched C_F target Insom, and has gotten no other results.
Robz claims to be a "thief" who targeted Watno, getting blued and thus interacting in some unknown way with Watno's power.
Jorbles claims to be a roleblocker.

Possible explanations for the tracking results:
1) C_F scum who killed Insom
2) Watno is on a scumteam; his scummate killed Insom and Watno watched Insom to know who to frame. In that case, the death was by ice cream scoop and this implicates Jorbles or Joth.
3) Jorbles or joth are scum, and they had a ninja ability to avoid tracking.

I think an obvious question is - JORBLES!!! WHO DID YOU ROLEBLOCK LAST NIGHT AND WHY!!!

Man, a lot going on here, sorry I've been out.  I tend to believe C_F's claim, but find the rest to be at best varying levels of scummy.  I wanted to point out that the bolded line above stuck out to me -- you'd have to know someone else was going to kill insom along with your partner to choose to watch for someone to frame, which seems pretty tough.

The Robz Thief claim sounds made up, but who knows in this type of game?  If using the "thief" power on Watno would make him cyan instead of Jorbles, why would the paint still hit Insom?  He's a half-thief that only worked on one of two of Watno's targets?  Doesn't make sense to me.  Like if "getting something from them" is the paint, that's fine, but wouldn't work with blocking the Jorbles paintball.  If he was "roleblocking" as Robz mentioned, there should have been no paint on anyone else...

Eh, I think Robz is lying, so I'll stamp my Vote: Robz for now.

Why would Robz lie like that though? I agree he is playing rather weird,but I don't really see any motivations for his behavior from any scum perspective.

[Dsell]

Jorbles is no longer online, but I'd like to ask him what he thinks of jo.

I could definitely see jo's "I'm being framed" thing as a gambit. Like I said before, it seems really odd that two neapolitan people would be roleblockers. Perhaps jo can shed some light on what his thing did.

It could be important to note (though maybe not very likely) that jo could be on the mafia team and that he performed the factional kill on top of any other role he otherwise would have. And then the kill showed up with the vanilla ice cream scoop flavor just because.

[cayvie]

I received a scoop of Strawberry ice cream last night. It wasn't in my original PM, but was just sent in a correction a while ago.

I haven't caught up on the thread, I just saw Jorbles' post. So I'm not sure how this affects things.

did it affect you in any way?

[cayvie]

oh i get it, it was the roleblocking flavor

[Dsell]

I'm not absolutely sure I was roleblocked, but it seems pretty likely. I definitely got the strawberry ice cream flavor though, so if Jorbles is telling the truth, then I was indeed roleblocked.

[Galzria]

OK. I'm trying to summarize what we know happened at night, or what is claimed to.

Insomniac died, via badass-black-glove and scoop.
C_F claims to be a strongman vig who targeted Insom.
Watno tried to Watch Insomniac and Jorbles. He successfully watched C_F target Insom, and has gotten no other results.
Robz claims to be a "thief" who targeted Watno, getting blued and thus interacting in some unknown way with Watno's power.
Jorbles claims to be a roleblocker.

Possible explanations for the tracking results:
1) C_F scum who killed Insom
2) Watno is on a scumteam; his scummate killed Insom and Watno watched Insom to know who to frame. In that case, the death was by ice cream scoop and this implicates Jorbles or Joth.
3) Jorbles or joth are scum, and they had a ninja ability to avoid tracking.

I think an obvious question is - JORBLES!!! WHO DID YOU ROLEBLOCK LAST NIGHT AND WHY!!!

Man, a lot going on here, sorry I've been out.  I tend to believe C_F's claim, but find the rest to be at best varying levels of scummy.  I wanted to point out that the bolded line above stuck out to me -- you'd have to know someone else was going to kill insom along with your partner to choose to watch for someone to frame, which seems pretty tough.

The Robz Thief claim sounds made up, but who knows in this type of game?  If using the "thief" power on Watno would make him cyan instead of Jorbles, why would the paint still hit Insom?  He's a half-thief that only worked on one of two of Watno's targets?  Doesn't make sense to me.  Like if "getting something from them" is the paint, that's fine, but wouldn't work with blocking the Jorbles paintball.  If he was "roleblocking" as Robz mentioned, there should have been no paint on anyone else...

Eh, I think Robz is lying, so I'll stamp my Vote: Robz for now.

Why would Robz lie like that though? I agree he is playing rather weird,but I don't really see any motivations for his behavior from any scum perspective.

It would be a twofold lie:

Robz claims to target Watno, which is why he's covered in paint. Instead he targeted Joth, stealing his flavour, and killing Insomniac with it.

But then how did he get covered in paint? Because Watno never shot Jorbles as stated. He shot Robz. Why? Because he wanted to know if anybody targeted his scumbuddy Robz.

And he targeted Insomniac, whom Robz planned to kill, to SEE if anybody else happened to target him, thus setting up a potential frame.

*****

I'm not saying that's what happened, but it DOES work almost as neatly as Jorbles/Watno.

For that matter, I'm still waiting for Watno to explain how it is he only managed to see one person target Insomniac when it's clear two did.

And it WOULD bee nice to know why  as Ashersky asked, Robz' "targeting" Watno prevented the paintball shots on Jorbles and not Insomniac.

[Galzria]

Dsell, did you target me last night?

For that matter, did anyone besides Joth? No need to disclose what your role is, just if you targeted me.

[Eevee]

Could Frisk be a strongman-ninja SK, is that a thing?

[Dsell]

For that matter, I'm still waiting for Watno to explain how it is he only managed to see one person target Insomniac when it's clear two did.

This is also compatible with the "Robz did the kill" idea, though it doesn't necessarily implicate watno as mafia.

[Dsell]

Dsell, did you target me last night?

For that matter, did anyone besides Joth? No need to disclose what your role is, just if you targeted me.

No.

[Dsell]

Could Frisk be a strongman-ninja SK, is that a thing?

Dang. I hope not.

[Eevee]

Could Frisk be a strongman-ninja SK, is that a thing?

4
Oh wait that doesn't explain anything because Frisk isn't responsible for the ice cream crushing either way, so that wouldn't explain Watno only seeing one guy!!

[Galzria]

Could Frisk be a strongman-ninja SK, is that a thing?

Frisk acknowledged he killed Insomniac. Watno DID track him. He's no Ninja, although strangle IS strongman, which his flavor supports.

[Eevee]

Could Frisk be a strongman-ninja SK, is that a thing?

4
Oh wait that doesn't explain anything because Frisk isn't responsible for the ice cream crushing either way, so that wouldn't explain Watno only seeing one guy!!

So where I was getting at, rather slowly (obviously Frisk isn't ninja, he just got tracked..):

Two guys killed Insomniac. Watno claims he tracked Insomniac and only saw one guy target him. Either someone somehow crushed Insomniac with an ice cream cone without getting tracked (so ninja Jorbles or ninja Joth most likely, or someone can mess with the flavor which I find super hard to believe) or Watno is lying. If Watno is lying, he is scum. Right?

[Dsell]

Could Frisk be a strongman-ninja SK, is that a thing?

4
Oh wait that doesn't explain anything because Frisk isn't responsible for the ice cream crushing either way, so that wouldn't explain Watno only seeing one guy!!

So where I was getting at, rather slowly (obviously Frisk isn't ninja, he just got tracked..):

Two guys killed Insomniac. Watno claims he tracked Insomniac and only saw one guy target him. Either someone somehow crushed Insomniac with an ice cream cone without getting tracked (so ninja Jorbles or ninja Joth most likely, or someone can mess with the flavor which I find super hard to believe) or Watno is lying. If Watno is lying, he is scum. Right?

Or Robz did the kill. I keep saying this.

[Eevee]

Could Frisk be a strongman-ninja SK, is that a thing?

4
Oh wait that doesn't explain anything because Frisk isn't responsible for the ice cream crushing either way, so that wouldn't explain Watno only seeing one guy!!

So where I was getting at, rather slowly (obviously Frisk isn't ninja, he just got tracked..):

Two guys killed Insomniac. Watno claims he tracked Insomniac and only saw one guy target him. Either someone somehow crushed Insomniac with an ice cream cone without getting tracked (so ninja Jorbles or ninja Joth most likely, or someone can mess with the flavor which I find super hard to believe) or Watno is lying. If Watno is lying, he is scum. Right?

Or Robz did the kill. I keep saying this.

How do you explain the ice cream cone flavour then? Sorry if you said this already, waking up 5am makes me run slow.

[Dsell]

Could Frisk be a strongman-ninja SK, is that a thing?

4
Oh wait that doesn't explain anything because Frisk isn't responsible for the ice cream crushing either way, so that wouldn't explain Watno only seeing one guy!!

So where I was getting at, rather slowly (obviously Frisk isn't ninja, he just got tracked..):

Two guys killed Insomniac. Watno claims he tracked Insomniac and only saw one guy target him. Either someone somehow crushed Insomniac with an ice cream cone without getting tracked (so ninja Jorbles or ninja Joth most likely, or someone can mess with the flavor which I find super hard to believe) or Watno is lying. If Watno is lying, he is scum. Right?

Or Robz did the kill. I keep saying this.

How do you explain the ice cream cone flavour then? Sorry if you said this already, waking up 5am makes me run slow.

Well, it would mean that Robz/the scum team can copy flavor or use whatever flavor they want for the kill. Which may not be likely but is definitely more likely than someone random doing the kill, copying the flavor, and not being trackable.

[Robz888]

I fully admit that my role looks like a scum role. It's mystifyingly town.

[Dsell]

I fully admit that my role looks like a scum role. It's mystifyingly town.

This...doesn't tell us anything? We aren't really speculating about your role here.

[Robz888]

I fully admit that my role looks like a scum role. It's mystifyingly town.

This...doesn't tell us anything? We aren't really speculating about your role here.

You don't need to speculate; I said it already.

[Eevee]

Could Frisk be a strongman-ninja SK, is that a thing?

4
Oh wait that doesn't explain anything because Frisk isn't responsible for the ice cream crushing either way, so that wouldn't explain Watno only seeing one guy!!

So where I was getting at, rather slowly (obviously Frisk isn't ninja, he just got tracked..):

Two guys killed Insomniac. Watno claims he tracked Insomniac and only saw one guy target him. Either someone somehow crushed Insomniac with an ice cream cone without getting tracked (so ninja Jorbles or ninja Joth most likely, or someone can mess with the flavor which I find super hard to believe) or Watno is lying. If Watno is lying, he is scum. Right?

Or Robz did the kill. I keep saying this.

How do you explain the ice cream cone flavour then? Sorry if you said this already, waking up 5am makes me run slow.

Well, it would mean that Robz/the scum team can copy flavor or use whatever flavor they want for the kill. Which may not be likely but is definitely more likely than someone random doing the kill, copying the flavor, and not being trackable.

Oh I see, that makes a ton of sense. I got to say, I still don't find anyone messing with eHalc's flavor in a game where we are supposed to be able interpret stuff from the flavor very likely, but I do agree if someone is doing that, it's more likely to be Robz than anyone else. So I should add to my post "if someone is able to mess with the flavour, it's most likely Robz".

[Galzria]

Could Frisk be a strongman-ninja SK, is that a thing?

4
Oh wait that doesn't explain anything because Frisk isn't responsible for the ice cream crushing either way, so that wouldn't explain Watno only seeing one guy!!

So where I was getting at, rather slowly (obviously Frisk isn't ninja, he just got tracked..):

Two guys killed Insomniac. Watno claims he tracked Insomniac and only saw one guy target him. Either someone somehow crushed Insomniac with an ice cream cone without getting tracked (so ninja Jorbles or ninja Joth most likely, or someone can mess with the flavor which I find super hard to believe) or Watno is lying. If Watno is lying, he is scum. Right?

That is, I think, my thought. If you read back, every pairing I logically come up with includes Watno because the crux of the issue is a Tracker who got one result on a target who wad targeted by two people.

And now Dsell confirms Jorbles targeted him, while I can confirm Joth targeted me. So both their actions are accounted for unless one can do multiple things - but I'm torn between which to believe there, as there is plausibility for either to be scum (Joth = Kill Flavour, Jorbles = Roleblocker).

And then there's Robz, who claimed in the vaguest of fashions, presenting more questions than he answered, and refusing to say more when asked for clarification.

What I'm getting at then, is that I could see plausible scum matchups for Watno on any of those 3 - but little way of NOT seeing how Watno fits in to this picture.

Which is why I want to hear more from him. Sooner rather than later.

I should probably unvote Jorbles for now though.

[Robz888]

And then there's Robz, who claimed in the vaguest of fashions, presenting more questions than he answered, and refusing to say more when asked for clarification.

I have not refused to say more. What else is there to say? I stole from Watno; a paintball exploded in my face and I got nothing. That's it.

[Dsell]

I fully admit that my role looks like a scum role. It's mystifyingly town.

This...doesn't tell us anything? We aren't really speculating about your role here.

You don't need to speculate; I said it already.

Oh yeah. I forgot that you are the "thief" and you steal flavor and cause other things. K...so you targeted jo with thief and shot Insom? Why'd ya do that? Nice coverup by your scumbuddy watno, though!

Vote: Robz

Crime solved.

[Eevee]

Could Frisk be a strongman-ninja SK, is that a thing?

4
Oh wait that doesn't explain anything because Frisk isn't responsible for the ice cream crushing either way, so that wouldn't explain Watno only seeing one guy!!

So where I was getting at, rather slowly (obviously Frisk isn't ninja, he just got tracked..):

Two guys killed Insomniac. Watno claims he tracked Insomniac and only saw one guy target him. Either someone somehow crushed Insomniac with an ice cream cone without getting tracked (so ninja Jorbles or ninja Joth most likely, or someone can mess with the flavor which I find super hard to believe) or Watno is lying. If Watno is lying, he is scum. Right?

That is, I think, my thought. If you read back, every pairing I logically come up with includes Watno because the crux of the issue is a Tracker who got one result on a target who wad targeted by two people.

And now Dsell confirms Jorbles targeted him, while I can confirm Joth targeted me. So both their actions are accounted for unless one can do multiple things - but I'm torn between which to believe there, as there is plausibility for either to be scum (Joth = Kill Flavour, Jorbles = Roleblocker).

And then there's Robz, who claimed in the vaguest of fashions, presenting more questions than he answered, and refusing to say more when asked for clarification.

What I'm getting at then, is that I could see plausible scum matchups for Watno on any of those 3 - but little way of NOT seeing how Watno fits in to this picture.

Which is why I want to hear more from him. Sooner rather than later.

I should probably unvote Jorbles for now though.

Yeah, sorry if it seems like I'm trying to present your analysis as my own, I'm just trying to understand the very confusing situation (I think I do now).

One thing though, why do you think confirmedly targeting you or Dsell makes either Jorbles or Joth any townier? If Jorbles is a mafia roleblocker, surely he can make the factional kill on person A and roleblock person B.

[Galzria]

Could Frisk be a strongman-ninja SK, is that a thing?

4
Oh wait that doesn't explain anything because Frisk isn't responsible for the ice cream crushing either way, so that wouldn't explain Watno only seeing one guy!!

So where I was getting at, rather slowly (obviously Frisk isn't ninja, he just got tracked..):

Two guys killed Insomniac. Watno claims he tracked Insomniac and only saw one guy target him. Either someone somehow crushed Insomniac with an ice cream cone without getting tracked (so ninja Jorbles or ninja Joth most likely, or someone can mess with the flavor which I find super hard to believe) or Watno is lying. If Watno is lying, he is scum. Right?

Or Robz did the kill. I keep saying this.

How do you explain the ice cream cone flavour then? Sorry if you said this already, waking up 5am makes me run slow.

The ice cream cone flavour would be stolen from Joth, seeing as Robz' role is "thief".

[Dsell]

Crime solved.

This line is pretty facetious, btw. There are definitely still other possibilities. But this seems like the most likely one and I stand by my vote.

[Robz888]

I fully admit that my role looks like a scum role. It's mystifyingly town.

This...doesn't tell us anything? We aren't really speculating about your role here.

You don't need to speculate; I said it already.

Oh yeah. I forgot that you are the "thief" and you steal flavor and cause other things. K...so you targeted jo with thief and shot Insom? Why'd ya do that? Nice coverup by your scumbuddy watno, though!

Vote: Robz

Crime solved.

Hence my comment about my role name seeming incriminating...

[Galzria]

I fully admit that my role looks like a scum role. It's mystifyingly town.

This...doesn't tell us anything? We aren't really speculating about your role here.

You don't need to speculate; I said it already.

Oh yeah. I forgot that you are the "thief" and you steal flavor and cause other things. K...so you targeted jo with thief and shot Insom? Why'd ya do that? Nice coverup by your scumbuddy watno, though!

Vote: Robz

Crime solved.

I feel like I'm talking to a wall sometimes...:

I figured out the scum vibes I'm getting from Robz!

But it doesn't fit a story of facts that we have. Hmm...

If Robz were a "Mafia" (for lack of a better scumteam name) Thief, he could've stolen Joth's flavor last night and applied it to the Insomniac kill.

Robz claims to have targeted Watno, who in turn claims to have targeted Jorbles. If THEY are scum together, it's perfectly reasonable that they would've come up with this lie before the day began. We have no other confirmation outside their word that Watno did indeed target Jorbles, and that Robz got in the way.

But would scum Watno tell us the truth about targeting his partner with his other shot? Does Jorbles/Watno make more sense than Robz/Watno?

Robz gave me scummy vibes all D1, and he's seemed so very eager all game to lynch. Does a Robz/Watno storyline fit better? I can't decide.

And on top of that, I'm left with the Joth/Jorbles debate.

Ugh. I hate not knowing, and much like SFS, I hate being wrong. Hmm.

[Dsell]

I fully admit that my role looks like a scum role. It's mystifyingly town.

This...doesn't tell us anything? We aren't really speculating about your role here.

You don't need to speculate; I said it already.

Oh yeah. I forgot that you are the "thief" and you steal flavor and cause other things. K...so you targeted jo with thief and shot Insom? Why'd ya do that? Nice coverup by your scumbuddy watno, though!

Vote: Robz

Crime solved.

Hence my comment about my role name seeming incriminating...

Yeah. But like, what else are you gonna say as scum?

[Galzria]

I fully admit that my role looks like a scum role. It's mystifyingly town.

This...doesn't tell us anything? We aren't really speculating about your role here.

You don't need to speculate; I said it already.

Oh yeah. I forgot that you are the "thief" and you steal flavor and cause other things. K...so you targeted jo with thief and shot Insom? Why'd ya do that? Nice coverup by your scumbuddy watno, though!

Vote: Robz

Crime solved.

I feel like I'm talking to a wall sometimes...:

I figured out the scum vibes I'm getting from Robz!

But it doesn't fit a story of facts that we have. Hmm...

If Robz were a "Mafia" (for lack of a better scumteam name) Thief, he could've stolen Joth's flavor last night and applied it to the Insomniac kill.

Robz claims to have targeted Watno, who in turn claims to have targeted Jorbles. If THEY are scum together, it's perfectly reasonable that they would've come up with this lie before the day began. We have no other confirmation outside their word that Watno did indeed target Jorbles, and that Robz got in the way.

But would scum Watno tell us the truth about targeting his partner with his other shot? Does Jorbles/Watno make more sense than Robz/Watno?

Robz gave me scummy vibes all D1, and he's seemed so very eager all game to lynch. Does a Robz/Watno storyline fit better? I can't decide.

And on top of that, I'm left with the Joth/Jorbles debate.

Ugh. I hate not knowing, and much like SFS, I hate being wrong. Hmm.

Or, if you prefer:

OK. I'm trying to summarize what we know happened at night, or what is claimed to.

Insomniac died, via badass-black-glove and scoop.
C_F claims to be a strongman vig who targeted Insom.
Watno tried to Watch Insomniac and Jorbles. He successfully watched C_F target Insom, and has gotten no other results.
Robz claims to be a "thief" who targeted Watno, getting blued and thus interacting in some unknown way with Watno's power.
Jorbles claims to be a roleblocker.

Possible explanations for the tracking results:
1) C_F scum who killed Insom
2) Watno is on a scumteam; his scummate killed Insom and Watno watched Insom to know who to frame. In that case, the death was by ice cream scoop and this implicates Jorbles or Joth.
3) Jorbles or joth are scum, and they had a ninja ability to avoid tracking.

I think an obvious question is - JORBLES!!! WHO DID YOU ROLEBLOCK LAST NIGHT AND WHY!!!

Man, a lot going on here, sorry I've been out.  I tend to believe C_F's claim, but find the rest to be at best varying levels of scummy.  I wanted to point out that the bolded line above stuck out to me -- you'd have to know someone else was going to kill insom along with your partner to choose to watch for someone to frame, which seems pretty tough.

The Robz Thief claim sounds made up, but who knows in this type of game?  If using the "thief" power on Watno would make him cyan instead of Jorbles, why would the paint still hit Insom?  He's a half-thief that only worked on one of two of Watno's targets?  Doesn't make sense to me.  Like if "getting something from them" is the paint, that's fine, but wouldn't work with blocking the Jorbles paintball.  If he was "roleblocking" as Robz mentioned, there should have been no paint on anyone else...

Eh, I think Robz is lying, so I'll stamp my Vote: Robz for now.

Why would Robz lie like that though? I agree he is playing rather weird,but I don't really see any motivations for his behavior from any scum perspective.

It would be a twofold lie:

Robz claims to target Watno, which is why he's covered in paint. Instead he targeted Joth, stealing his flavour, and killing Insomniac with it.

But then how did he get covered in paint? Because Watno never shot Jorbles as stated. He shot Robz. Why? Because he wanted to know if anybody targeted his scumbuddy Robz.

And he targeted Insomniac, whom Robz planned to kill, to SEE if anybody else happened to target him, thus setting up a potential frame.

*****

I'm not saying that's what happened, but it DOES work almost as neatly as Jorbles/Watno.

For that matter, I'm still waiting for Watno to explain how it is he only managed to see one person target Insomniac when it's clear two did.

And it WOULD bee nice to know why  as Ashersky asked, Robz' "targeting" Watno prevented the paintball shots on Jorbles and not Insomniac.

[Dsell]

@Galz, I actually DID read that post, but I somehow skimmed over the line about Robz as thief. I'd forgotten that claim too, which means I'm probably in no state to be playing mafia right now.

[Dsell]

Yaaaaay hipster Galz solves crimes before it's cool.

[Eevee]

Could Frisk be a strongman-ninja SK, is that a thing?

4
Oh wait that doesn't explain anything because Frisk isn't responsible for the ice cream crushing either way, so that wouldn't explain Watno only seeing one guy!!

So where I was getting at, rather slowly (obviously Frisk isn't ninja, he just got tracked..):

Two guys killed Insomniac. Watno claims he tracked Insomniac and only saw one guy target him. Either someone somehow crushed Insomniac with an ice cream cone without getting tracked (so ninja Jorbles or ninja Joth most likely, or someone can mess with the flavor which I find super hard to believe) or Watno is lying. If Watno is lying, he is scum. Right?

Or Robz did the kill. I keep saying this.

How do you explain the ice cream cone flavour then? Sorry if you said this already, waking up 5am makes me run slow.

The ice cream cone flavour would be stolen from Joth, seeing as Robz' role is "thief".

Ah, thanks for explaining this to me. While I don't think anyone could randomly just invent flavour, Robz's role stealing it does sound plausible and it would account for everything which is pretty huge in a confusing situation like this. Then we have his weird weird play throughout the game.. Would he be foxy enough to play like that thinking "surely they'll think I'm obvtown because scumRobz would be more polished".. I think he very well could. Unvote, we need to examine Robz more and definitely definitely hear from Watno. Actually Vote: Robz, put my money where my mind is.

[Eevee]

My head is spinning, need to take a break from this thread / read the last two pages again to make sure I understand everything. Role madness indeed..

[Robz888]

If I were not me, I would definitely vote for me. My role does seem scummy. I don't think the people starting a wagon against me are scum.

[Dsell]

If I were not me, I would definitely vote for me. My role does seem scummy. I don't think the people starting a wagon against me are scum.

Would love your assessment of this situation.

[Robz888]

If I were not me, I would definitely vote for me. My role does seem scummy. I don't think the people starting a wagon against me are scum.

Would love your assessment of this situation.

I've given it! I think Frisk is definitely scum. The case against Jorbles makes sense, but he talks like town to me, and I can imagine Jotheonah planning this to get Jorbles killed.

[Galzria]

Yaaaaay hipster Galz solves crimes before it's cool.

Just sayin'.

You probably didn't notice any of those posts in detail because they didn't contain a Vote Robz (not bold, no colon!).

I'm still torn between really believing that a neighbor is scum, and we should figure out which - or Robz is likely scum thinking if he does scummy things he can get away with it because scum Robz wouldn't be blatantly scummy - or thinking neither of the first two matter because Watno fits whichever above makes most sense, so why bother deciding between the first two?

[Robz888]

Yaaaaay hipster Galz solves crimes before it's cool.

Just sayin'.

You probably didn't notice any of those posts in detail because they didn't contain a Vote Robz (not bold, no colon!).

I'm still torn between really believing that a neighbor is scum, and we should figure out which - or Robz is likely scum thinking if he does scummy things he can get away with it because scum Robz wouldn't be blatantly scummy - or thinking neither of the first two matter because Watno fits whichever above makes most sense, so why bother deciding between the first two?

I know I'm never going to convince anybody using the following logic, but hey, why not try? If I were scum, I would not confess to a role with such a scummy sounding name as "Thief."

[Dsell]

You probably didn't notice any of those posts in detail because they didn't contain a Vote Robz (not bold, no colon!).

I swear I read all the posts, and in pretty good detail, and yours especially. I think maybe because I was forgetting about Robz being the thief, those lines describing it just didn't quite register.

Either that or I'm going insane.


Nice to have all your thoughts in one place for future reference, Robz, especially with the pace this game is moving today.

As far as most likely scum, I'm gonna say:

Robz>Frisk>Watno>Jo>Jorbles

but with decent arguments, or at least semi-plausible cases in which they're scum, for each of them. But if Frisk is anything, he's the SK.

[Dsell]

Yaaaaay hipster Galz solves crimes before it's cool.

Just sayin'.

You probably didn't notice any of those posts in detail because they didn't contain a Vote Robz (not bold, no colon!).

I'm still torn between really believing that a neighbor is scum, and we should figure out which - or Robz is likely scum thinking if he does scummy things he can get away with it because scum Robz wouldn't be blatantly scummy - or thinking neither of the first two matter because Watno fits whichever above makes most sense, so why bother deciding between the first two?

I know I'm never going to convince anybody using the following logic, but hey, why not try? If I were scum, I would not confess to a role with such a scummy sounding name as "Thief."

It wasn't nearly as incriminating at the time, I don't believe.

But I apparently have big gaps in my memory tonight, so I'm gonna go back and fact-check myself.

[Galzria]

Yaaaaay hipster Galz solves crimes before it's cool.

Just sayin'.

You probably didn't notice any of those posts in detail because they didn't contain a Vote Robz (not bold, no colon!).

I'm still torn between really believing that a neighbor is scum, and we should figure out which - or Robz is likely scum thinking if he does scummy things he can get away with it because scum Robz wouldn't be blatantly scummy - or thinking neither of the first two matter because Watno fits whichever above makes most sense, so why bother deciding between the first two?

I know I'm never going to convince anybody using the following logic, but hey, why not try? If I were scum, I would not confess to a role with such a scummy sounding name as "Thief."

Why do you think your targeting of Watno caused him to only miss Jorbles (hitting you instead), and not Insomniac?

[Robz888]

Yaaaaay hipster Galz solves crimes before it's cool.

Just sayin'.

You probably didn't notice any of those posts in detail because they didn't contain a Vote Robz (not bold, no colon!).

I'm still torn between really believing that a neighbor is scum, and we should figure out which - or Robz is likely scum thinking if he does scummy things he can get away with it because scum Robz wouldn't be blatantly scummy - or thinking neither of the first two matter because Watno fits whichever above makes most sense, so why bother deciding between the first two?

I know I'm never going to convince anybody using the following logic, but hey, why not try? If I were scum, I would not confess to a role with such a scummy sounding name as "Thief."

Why do you think your targeting of Watno caused him to only miss Jorbles (hitting you instead), and not Insomniac?

I have absolutely no idea.

[Robz888]

It COULD be because Watno is lying. He was my main scum read yesterday. I believe I ended the day with a vote on him.

[Dsell]

It COULD be because Watno is lying. He was my main scum read yesterday. I believe I ended the day with a vote on him.

You did. Why couldn't you just be lying and make it easy for us, dammit!

[Robz888]

It COULD be because Watno is lying. He was my main scum read yesterday. I believe I ended the day with a vote on him.

You did. Why couldn't you just be lying and make it easy for us, dammit!

I actually did consider lying about my role name, because who ever heard of a town Thief? but I didn't.

[Galzria]

Yaaaaay hipster Galz solves crimes before it's cool.

Just sayin'.

You probably didn't notice any of those posts in detail because they didn't contain a Vote Robz (not bold, no colon!).

I'm still torn between really believing that a neighbor is scum, and we should figure out which - or Robz is likely scum thinking if he does scummy things he can get away with it because scum Robz wouldn't be blatantly scummy - or thinking neither of the first two matter because Watno fits whichever above makes most sense, so why bother deciding between the first two?

I know I'm never going to convince anybody using the following logic, but hey, why not try? If I were scum, I would not confess to a role with such a scummy sounding name as "Thief."

Why do you think your targeting of Watno caused him to only miss Jorbles (hitting you instead), and not Insomniac?

Also, while I'm asking questions:

I remember scum Robz absolutely crucifying Ozle for posting D1 in an odd, seemingly unhelpful, very unique fashion. Said this Robz "If he were town, he would care more about Towns own interest, rather than his own. I don't care if he's having fun, he's being actively and intentionally anti-town, and I'm going to park my vote on him until he spa."

As it turns out, Ozle was indeed scum, and his actions were accurately called out - ironically by scumRobz of a different scum faction.

Why should your D1 posts be viewed any differently, and why should we expect to find a player engaging in "active, intentional, anti-town play" to flip town if we decided to lynch you?

[Dsell]

@Robz: The thing is, you're pretty good at sounding townie, but the facts point straaaight to you.

[Galzria]

*until he stops* - correction in spelling above.

[Robz888]

Yaaaaay hipster Galz solves crimes before it's cool.

Just sayin'.

You probably didn't notice any of those posts in detail because they didn't contain a Vote Robz (not bold, no colon!).

I'm still torn between really believing that a neighbor is scum, and we should figure out which - or Robz is likely scum thinking if he does scummy things he can get away with it because scum Robz wouldn't be blatantly scummy - or thinking neither of the first two matter because Watno fits whichever above makes most sense, so why bother deciding between the first two?

I know I'm never going to convince anybody using the following logic, but hey, why not try? If I were scum, I would not confess to a role with such a scummy sounding name as "Thief."

Why do you think your targeting of Watno caused him to only miss Jorbles (hitting you instead), and not Insomniac?

Also, while I'm asking questions:

I remember scum Robz absolutely crucifying Ozle for posting D1 in an odd, seemingly unhelpful, very unique fashion. Said this Robz "If he were town, he would care more about Towns own interest, rather than his own. I don't care if he's having fun, he's being actively and intentionally anti-town, and I'm going to park my vote on him until he spa."

As it turns out, Ozle was indeed scum, and his actions were accurately called out - ironically by scumRobz of a different scum faction.

Why should your D1 posts be viewed any differently, and why should we expect to find a player engaging in "active, intentional, anti-town play" to flip town if we decided to lynch you?

My play on Day 1 was neither active, intentional, nor anti-town. I was a little reserved and short, but I wasn't annoyingly cryptic like Ozle in MVI. And hey, my vote ended up on the person we all think now is very possibly scum. So who's the unhelpful townie now?

[Robz888]

@Robz: The thing is, you're pretty good at sounding townie, but the facts point straaaight to you.

True and truer.

[Dsell]

So who's the unhelpful townie now?

...he asks Galzria.

[ftl]

Requoting robz's role here because we keep talking about it and I've already forgotten his claim.

I'll just explain it. It's pretty vague in either case. I am a "Thief." I target someone, and then I get something from them that relates to their flavor. Other stuff can happen, like roleblocking them, or getting an ability from them... Yeah, this isn't much of an explanation. That's literally all I was told.

I picked Watno, who was my scumread yesterday, why not? I was told that the cyan paintball exploded all over me, and I didn't get anything from him. So I don't know if I roleblocked or absorbed his action in some way.

You know... would town robz be vague like this? Like if robz were town, and he had a role with a scummy-sounding name, and sort of confusing mechanics... wouldn't he be clearer?

Dunno. Maybe I do believe him, on second thought it seems more plausible for a few reasons. Not voting for him yet even though I've really wanted to lynch him earlier, I'm so having some doubts.

...or maybe I shouldn't believe him - Robz, are you a plant?

[Robz888]

Requoting robz's role here because we keep talking about it and I've already forgotten his claim.

I'll just explain it. It's pretty vague in either case. I am a "Thief." I target someone, and then I get something from them that relates to their flavor. Other stuff can happen, like roleblocking them, or getting an ability from them... Yeah, this isn't much of an explanation. That's literally all I was told.

I picked Watno, who was my scumread yesterday, why not? I was told that the cyan paintball exploded all over me, and I didn't get anything from him. So I don't know if I roleblocked or absorbed his action in some way.

You know... would town robz be vague like this? Like if robz were town, and he had a role with a scummy-sounding name, and sort of confusing mechanics... wouldn't he be clearer?

Dunno. Maybe I do believe him, on second thought it seems more plausible for a few reasons. Not voting for him yet even though I've really wanted to lynch him earlier, I'm so having some doubts.

...or maybe I shouldn't believe him - Robz, are you a plant?

I don't know how to be clearer.

I Robz. Me am Thief. Thief Robz take flavor item from guy he picks. Thief Robz pick Watno, get paint all over.

[Galzria]

Yaaaaay hipster Galz solves crimes before it's cool.

Just sayin'.

You probably didn't notice any of those posts in detail because they didn't contain a Vote Robz (not bold, no colon!).

I'm still torn between really believing that a neighbor is scum, and we should figure out which - or Robz is likely scum thinking if he does scummy things he can get away with it because scum Robz wouldn't be blatantly scummy - or thinking neither of the first two matter because Watno fits whichever above makes most sense, so why bother deciding between the first two?

I know I'm never going to convince anybody using the following logic, but hey, why not try? If I were scum, I would not confess to a role with such a scummy sounding name as "Thief."

Why do you think your targeting of Watno caused him to only miss Jorbles (hitting you instead), and not Insomniac?

Also, while I'm asking questions:

I remember scum Robz absolutely crucifying Ozle for posting D1 in an odd, seemingly unhelpful, very unique fashion. Said this Robz "If he were town, he would care more about Towns own interest, rather than his own. I don't care if he's having fun, he's being actively and intentionally anti-town, and I'm going to park my vote on him until he spa."

As it turns out, Ozle was indeed scum, and his actions were accurately called out - ironically by scumRobz of a different scum faction.

Why should your D1 posts be viewed any differently, and why should we expect to find a player engaging in "active, intentional, anti-town play" to flip town if we decided to lynch you?

My play on Day 1 was neither active, intentional, nor anti-town. I was a little reserved and short, but I wasn't annoyingly cryptic like Ozle in MVI. And hey, my vote ended up on the person we all think now is very possibly scum. So who's the unhelpful townie now?

Well, 1/3. You're right, they weren't active. However, this is what they were:

Scarce
Contentless
Distractions
Intentional
And yes, Anti-town

Your vote ended on the person that we all now think is scum? Hmm, true. But if I recall, you stated yourself that you had no original reads and were just sheeping others. I absolutely hold no pro-town associations for you based on the location of your vote given the reasons it was cast.

I'm sorry, but your posts were much, MUCH more useless than anything Ozle ever posted - he at least went out of his way to make his confusing posts clear. And hell, I can't knock your scum jujitsu there - you were right! But you haven't adequately explained how that was obvanti-town play, yet your D1 here was not.

[Robz888]

I take things a little more lightly in BM and RM games, as is well-established. Especially when I'm not scum.

[Dsell]

So Galz, you gonna join me and ashersky voting Robz?

[Galzria]

Blah. Too much to go on. I know Robz doesn't take RMM or BM games as seriously, and he's more apt to try crazy-ass stuff as scum. I absolutely would NOT put it past him to play intentionally scummy, and post his scum rolename, hoping to rely on the thought that "there's NO way scum Robz would play this way".

And reads aside, the facts point to him. At least moreso than Jorbles/Joth. We can figure those two out later. I'm ready to Vote: Robz. I believe that puts him at 4.

[Eevee]

While I've sort of resigned myself from trying to gut read Robz because he's always one step ahead, I got to say that's just such a weak defense. You, the guy who bussed the hell out of Frisk in ZM2 day 1 for no apparent reason (!!) say "well my vote was on watno who looks scummy now so I'm town"? Also, I don't see a reason to take things more lightly in RM games like this where eHalcyon has obviously put in a lot of effort to make it balanced and "playable". Dsell, I too am voting for Robz and rather liking it.

PPE: Galrzia just said most of what I tried to convey in this post but okay.

[Galzria]

Lol, double ninja'd by Robz and Dsell both.

[Robz888]

Okay, well, I don't think there is an argument I can make to convince you that I'm not scum. But I don't blame you for that. Vote: Watno in case you change your minds.

[Dsell]

I'm cutting myself off from forum mafia tonight, until at least much later.

Niiight guys.

[Robz888]

Also, I don't see a reason to take things more lightly in RM games like this where eHalcyon has obviously put in a lot of effort to make it balanced and "playable". Dsell, I too am voting for Robz and rather liking it.

PPE: Galrzia just said most of what I tried to convey in this post but okay.

Uh, I can take things both seriously and lightly. I have to change my play from game to game to stay one step ahead when I am scum, first of all, and I feel more comfortable experimenting in these environments. Also, when I get some familiar flavor, like Avatar in BMV and Harry Potter here on Day 1, I let loose a bit. It's nice to unwined from time to time. (See what I did there?)

[Galzria]

Dsell, Eevee, you're both in foreign countries, so I'm sure it's a reasonable hour right now for you two. It's 3:15am for Robz however, and 12:15 am for me. I need to go to sleep, and I'd think the same is true for Robz.

[Galzria]

Dsell, Eevee, you're both in foreign countries, so I'm sure it's a reasonable hour right now for you two. It's 3:15am for Robz however, and 12:15 am for me. I need to go to sleep, and I'd think the same is true for Robz.

Edit: Dsell, I confused you with Grujah. See how tired I am? You're with us in the States, so go to bed too!

[Eevee]

I obviously like the Robz lynch, but we mustn't forget about Frisk. What do we want him to do? As said previously, I'm leaning towards not shooting, but can be convinced otherwise if someone has a better idea.

Go to sleep guys! It's not like the deadline is tomorrow.. I'm off to lunch anyways!

[Robz888]

Yeah, I should REALLY be in bed. Ridiculous! Goodnight all.

[Lekkit]

@Eevee: The reason Ive been quiet is because Ive only had limited access to reading from my phone. I am at my parents place right now. I have managed tobread everything once, but typing on phone is a pain. Ill try to reread again later today and get my thoughts down. U am a bit susoicious  about CF. Other than that I dont feel like I have any real new input right now. I am still wary of Robz for the same reasons Galz is ans thats the same rwason I posted back in day 1.

[Voltgloss]

Vote Count 2.3

Captain_Frisk (1): Watno
Jorbles (1): cayvie
Robz888 (4): ashersky, Dsell, Eevee, Galzria
Watno (1): Robz888

Not voting (6): Captain_Frisk, ftl, Jorbles, jotheonah, Lekkit, shraeye

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Lynch deadline: Monday, October 22, 7:00pm MDT

[ashersky]

Quick thought--if the robz lynch happens, what do his reads mean for us? 

I think most notable are his town read on Jorbles and vote on Watno.  A scum flip by Robz says to me one of those two is scum.  He's either trying to lessen pressure on J with a slight town read or gain town cred if we go the Watno route today by bussing his partner.

Just thought I would post some food for thought as we think about who we lynch today.

[Captain_Frisk]

Yikes.  You guys went crazy last night.

Ehalc - are you willing to confirm any mod oversights regarding ice cream delivery?

[Watno]

I see 3 possibilities why I got only one result of a player targeting Insomniac. (Btw, I have the feeling this is not clear to everybody: I wasn't told it was Insomniac who was targeted, just that it was either him or Robz. However, since Insomniac is dead, clearly someone targeted him)
1) One of the kills was by a ninja
2) Robz did the other kill. Since he was already covered in paint, I probably wouldn't notice if he got some more by killing Insomniac.
3) There was only one kill

The manner of death was noteworthy.  Insomniac had been strangled, all of his circuits crushed in a powerful grip.  A bad-ass fingerless black leather glove was caught in the frayed neck-wires.  Additionally, Insomniac's android head was bashed in by an ice cream scoop that remained embedded in the metal.  Vanilla ice cream dripped from the wound.  A rather messy way to go.

Assuming the killer could choose his flavour for the kill, maybe he chose to kill him in to ways to confuse us. There is no break in the blue text between the two manners of killing, so i think this is possible.

Also I just noticed the glove could be a hint to a ninja.

I'm still pretty sure that Frisk is lying.

Regarding why one of my paintball hits the intended target and the other didn't, I think its because they came from different arms and Robz only came in the way of one.

Robz, can you "quote" your Role PM and the one where you get hit by my paintball?

[jotheonah]

I could definitely see jo's "I'm being framed" thing as a gambit. Like I said before, it seems really odd that two neapolitan people would be roleblockers. Perhaps jo can shed some light on what his thing did.

Good time of year for fishing?

If I were not me, I would definitely vote for me. My role does seem scummy. I don't think the people starting a wagon against me are scum.

Would love your assessment of this situation.

I've given it! I think Frisk is definitely scum. The case against Jorbles makes sense, but he talks like town to me, and I can imagine Jotheonah planning this to get Jorbles killed.

Isn't that infinitely more complicated than just killing Jorbles to get Jorbles killed?


@Eevee and Dsell, who are having a hard time believing eHalc included a role that can manipulate the flavor. Think about it this way: Robz didn't steal flavor, he stole an actual physical object, a vanilla ice cream cone.

We know Frisk is a Strongman Vig who's role name is Jack of All Trades. I have a similar misdirection in my PM. The whole theme of the flavor is "nothing is as it seems." So I have no problem believing Robz has the name theme, but he's basically a mafia goon (who happens to be able to reflavor his kills.)

I'm happy to join the Vote: Robz train.

[Captain_Frisk]

We know Frisk is a Strongman Vig who's role name is Jack of All Trades. I have a similar misdirection in my PM. The whole theme of the flavor is "nothing is as it seems." So I have no problem believing Robz has the name theme, but he's basically a mafia goon (who happens to be able to reflavor his kills.)

Ummm... I know that that the above statement is true, but I fail to understand how the rest of town would know its true.

Fos: Joth

Joth, is there any chance that your role would override kill flavor or something?  IE - if Galz was say a Ninja Killer - is it possible that you would have caused his kill to have ice cream flavor?

[jotheonah]

It's possible. Frisk, did you forget that you claimed?

[Captain_Frisk]

It's possible. Frisk, did you forget that you claimed?

Oh I definitely claimed.  I'm just saying that even if you personally believe me, you couldn't possibly "know" it to be true.  If the situations were reversed, I wouldn't trust me.  Remember DSell? 

[jotheonah]

Ok, that's fair. Maybe it's because of my own PM that I believe it. There's some hijinks in my PM about vanilla/vanilla townie even though I'm not.

[Eevee]

Watno, how does the glove hint to a ninja? And also, isn't the glove supposed to be Frisk's? Can you confirm that, Frisk? That's a problem I see with your claim.. I don't think strangling or crushing people with ice cream scones sounds very ninja-y at all.

I'd say either Robz was already covered in paint so Watno didn't notice him, or Watno is lying. Only two explanations I find sufficient, and Robz being the killer is the simpler of the two, hence my vote. I can't really see a scenario where neither of them was mafia. It would require someone else stealing/inventing flavour AND being ninja, which just sounds too far-fetched for my liking.

We also need to solve the situations with Frisk and the neighborhood of jotheonah and Jorbles somehow. It almost seems too good to be true, we might have stumbled upon more than half of the scum early day 2 without any direct investigations?

[Robz888]

Watno, how does the glove hint to a ninja? And also, isn't the glove supposed to be Frisk's? Can you confirm that, Frisk? That's a problem I see with your claim.. I don't think strangling or crushing people with ice cream scones sounds very ninja-y at all.

I'd say either Robz was already covered in paint so Watno didn't notice him, or Watno is lying. Only two explanations I find sufficient, and Robz being the killer is the simpler of the two, hence my vote. I can't really see a scenario where neither of them was mafia. It would require someone else stealing/inventing flavour AND being ninja, which just sounds too far-fetched for my liking.

We also need to solve the situations with Frisk and the neighborhood of jotheonah and Jorbles somehow. It almost seems is too good to be true, we might have stumbled upon more than half of the scum early day 2 without any direct investigations?

FTFY

[Captain_Frisk]

Watno, how does the glove hint to a ninja? And also, isn't the glove supposed to be Frisk's? Can you confirm that, Frisk? That's a problem I see with your claim.. I don't think strangling or crushing people with ice cream scones sounds very ninja-y at all.

I'd say either Robz was already covered in paint so Watno didn't notice him, or Watno is lying. Only two explanations I find sufficient, and Robz being the killer is the simpler of the two, hence my vote. I can't really see a scenario where neither of them was mafia. It would require someone else stealing/inventing flavour AND being ninja, which just sounds too far-fetched for my liking.

We also need to solve the situations with Frisk and the neighborhood of jotheonah and Jorbles somehow. It almost seems too good to be true, we might have stumbled upon more than half of the scum early day 2 without any direct investigations?

I assumed that the badass fingerless glove is mine, but I can't confirm - like weight lifting gloves?

I assume that I look like the below - as I do in real life.

[Eevee]

No wonder I have such a huge hard on for you.

[Watno]

Frisk, i also noticed that, but the only reason to suspect him for it would be if he was your scumbuddy.
Regarding why the glove was a hint to a ninja kill: It would make sense that if the killer wore gloves, the paint wouldn't have gotten on him.

[jotheonah]

Maybe the glove is a hint that he's a 2-shot vig - he can strangle people until he runs out of ... gloves? Ok, that seems far fetched.

[eHalcyon]

Yikes.  You guys went crazy last night.

Ehalc - are you willing to confirm any mod oversights regarding ice cream delivery?

To discourage anyone from abusing mod errors, I will confirm that I indeed made an error in that I omitted a piece of flavour from Dsell's PM, which has since been corrected.  Other than that, all night actions were resolved properly (including the effects of the flavour that had been omitted).

[Dsell]

I could definitely see jo's "I'm being framed" thing as a gambit. Like I said before, it seems really odd that two neapolitan people would be roleblockers. Perhaps jo can shed some light on what his thing did.

Good time of year for fishing?

It's just that you potentially have information that could help us solve this puzzle.

Also, I'm not finding it hard to believe that Robz could manipulate flavor...at least not since remembering that his role is "thief" and that he steals flavor.

[jotheonah]

All the helpful information I have I've shared. The information you're asking for, what my power role does, will only help scum.

[ftl]

I would however like to see Robz's actual powers description, as he claims it was given to him by eHalc. Edit out anything that would get you modkilled or would out other power roles, but post the rest, in the original flavor. Not a vague-ish summary.

Yeah, I'm being sort of rolefishy, but actually all I'm looking for is the flavor to judge whether to believe him or not. Same as c_f posted. Same as what ashersky posted minus the QT link. And I don't think it's anti-town to demand that info here, because it doesn't help scum to know his role if he's going to be lynched anyway.

[Jorbles]

Catching up now, will make small comments as I get to posts. Expect a whole bunch of small posts as I catch up.

Galz, were you roleblocked last night too? Because our flavor with the scoop-in-the-mouth is the same. But it seems weird to me that Strawberry and Vanilla would have the same effect. Archetype had a specific role, tracker, yet these guys have the same one? That seems weird. Unless it's just the same "flavor" (ie scoop in the mouth) for two different roles.

I'm not going to out joth, but as far as I know all the different scoops have different powers. I know Archetype and I had different powers, and joth claims something different. I have no reason to believe that joth would also be a Roleblocker.

[Jorbles]

Jorbles is no longer online, but I'd like to ask him what he thinks of jo.

I could definitely see jo's "I'm being framed" thing as a gambit. Like I said before, it seems really odd that two neapolitan people would be roleblockers. Perhaps jo can shed some light on what his thing did.

It could be important to note (though maybe not very likely) that jo could be on the mafia team and that he performed the factional kill on top of any other role he otherwise would have. And then the kill showed up with the vanilla ice cream scoop flavor just because.

I agree that jo could be gambitting, in which case it makes Galzria look bad because he's backing him up. I don't know for sure that the entire neighbourhood wasn't town though. It's possible, but I'm not super convinced. I could see him doing it as town too. I considered outing us to the town as well, but the reason I didn't is that I thought the smart play as a scum neighbour after Archetype's lynch would just be to NK the other player instead of gambitting the next day. Then you get all the scoops for yourself and you never get outted as the other neighbour to the town, and no one has any reason to suspect you. Gambitting in that situation just doesn't seem like the best play.

[Jorbles]

It would be a twofold lie:

Robz claims to target Watno, which is why he's covered in paint. Instead he targeted Joth, stealing his flavour, and killing Insomniac with it.

But then how did he get covered in paint? Because Watno never shot Jorbles as stated. He shot Robz. Why? Because he wanted to know if anybody targeted his scumbuddy Robz.

And he targeted Insomniac, whom Robz planned to kill, to SEE if anybody else happened to target him, thus setting up a potential frame.

*****

I'm not saying that's what happened, but it DOES work almost as neatly as Jorbles/Watno.

For that matter, I'm still waiting for Watno to explain how it is he only managed to see one person target Insomniac when it's clear two did.

And it WOULD bee nice to know why  as Ashersky asked, Robz' "targeting" Watno prevented the paintball shots on Jorbles and not Insomniac.

I don't know what's going with the paint, but I would like to say I had nothing in my night message about paint or the colour cyan at all. Publicly covering people with paint seems like a town power though doesn't it?

[Jorbles]

Could Frisk be a strongman-ninja SK, is that a thing?

4
Oh wait that doesn't explain anything because Frisk isn't responsible for the ice cream crushing either way, so that wouldn't explain Watno only seeing one guy!!

So where I was getting at, rather slowly (obviously Frisk isn't ninja, he just got tracked..):

Two guys killed Insomniac. Watno claims he tracked Insomniac and only saw one guy target him. Either someone somehow crushed Insomniac with an ice cream cone without getting tracked (so ninja Jorbles or ninja Joth most likely, or someone can mess with the flavor which I find super hard to believe) or Watno is lying. If Watno is lying, he is scum. Right?

I know this looks self preserving, but with what we've seen of the claimed roles at this point I would not be surprised at all if someone had the ability to make someone else's flavour associated with an action, such as the NK.

[jotheonah]

Jorbles is no longer online, but I'd like to ask him what he thinks of jo.

I could definitely see jo's "I'm being framed" thing as a gambit. Like I said before, it seems really odd that two neapolitan people would be roleblockers. Perhaps jo can shed some light on what his thing did.

It could be important to note (though maybe not very likely) that jo could be on the mafia team and that he performed the factional kill on top of any other role he otherwise would have. And then the kill showed up with the vanilla ice cream scoop flavor just because.

I agree that jo could be gambitting, in which case it makes Galzria look bad because he's backing him up. I don't know for sure that the entire neighbourhood wasn't town though. It's possible, but I'm not super convinced. I could see him doing it as town too. I considered outing us to the town as well, but the reason I didn't is that I thought the smart play as a scum neighbour after Archetype's lynch would just be to NK the other player instead of gambitting the next day. Then you get all the scoops for yourself and you never get outted as the other neighbour to the town, and no one has any reason to suspect you. Gambitting in that situation just doesn't seem like the best play.

This is a really good point. The fact that I'm still alive does tend to clear Jorbles a bit, unless insomniac was a much higher priority kill for some reason.

[Captain_Frisk]

Jorbles is no longer online, but I'd like to ask him what he thinks of jo.

I could definitely see jo's "I'm being framed" thing as a gambit. Like I said before, it seems really odd that two neapolitan people would be roleblockers. Perhaps jo can shed some light on what his thing did.

It could be important to note (though maybe not very likely) that jo could be on the mafia team and that he performed the factional kill on top of any other role he otherwise would have. And then the kill showed up with the vanilla ice cream scoop flavor just because.

I agree that jo could be gambitting, in which case it makes Galzria look bad because he's backing him up. I don't know for sure that the entire neighbourhood wasn't town though. It's possible, but I'm not super convinced. I could see him doing it as town too. I considered outing us to the town as well, but the reason I didn't is that I thought the smart play as a scum neighbour after Archetype's lynch would just be to NK the other player instead of gambitting the next day. Then you get all the scoops for yourself and you never get outted as the other neighbour to the town, and no one has any reason to suspect you. Gambitting in that situation just doesn't seem like the best play.

See - I think that as scum with daytalking neighbors, I would absolutely not want to kill them.  I assum this is why Galz kept me alive in BMMMMMM1, because he could talk / guide me privately.  Saving up your scoops?  You and Joth had 7?  Even 1 per night is going to last you a long time.  How often do you live to day 4?

If Joth is scum, then I think he just might not have realized that his flavor was going to be so obvious.  As you can see from my PM, I knew that I was strong, but the exact flavor of kill wasn't described to me.

--

The RobZ situation is a strange one, everything seems to point at him (covered in cyan), scummy rolename, lack of pasting role text despite it being pretty clear that its cool to do so.

What is it about RMMM games that result in us lynching so quickly?  Didn't we have like some 2 hour days for RMMM1?

[Jorbles]

See - I think that as scum with daytalking neighbors, I would absolutely not want to kill them.  I assum this is why Galz kept me alive in BMMMMMM1, because he could talk / guide me privately.  Saving up your scoops?  You and Joth had 7?  Even 1 per night is going to last you a long time.  How often do you live to day 4?

If Joth is scum, then I think he just might not have realized that his flavor was going to be so obvious.  As you can see from my PM, I knew that I was strong, but the exact flavor of kill wasn't described to me.

As scum I think the best reason for not killing me is that then he's outed as the other neighbour. Keeping me alive so joth can then frame me, lynch me and then setup himself for the next lynch? It doesn't seem to have a lot of forethought. That's why I don't think it's scummy because it doesn't seem like a good idea when you think it past one lynch.

[Jorbles]

@Robz: The thing is, you're pretty good at sounding townie, but the facts point straaaight to you.

I gotta agree with this. I'm going to not vote until I finish catching up, but Robz looks super scummy to me right now. I've seen him swear himself blue he was town when all the facts pointed to him being scum before. I don't know the vote count so I'm not going to vote just yet, but I will once I've caught up unless something more compelling happens.

[Voltgloss]

Vote Count 2.4

Captain_Frisk (1): Watno
Jorbles (1): cayvie
Robz888 (5): ashersky, Dsell, Eevee, Galzria, jotheonah
Watno (1): Robz888

Not voting (5): Captain_Frisk, ftl, Jorbles, Lekkit, shraeye

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Lynch deadline: Monday, October 22, 7:00pm MDT

[Jorbles]

Okay caught up. Voting for Robz would put him at L-1 and I think we should have a town direction for Frisk's kill before we do that. I personally agree that with Frisk not using his action is probably the best move. I'll check back in later today, see if we have consensus, and vote for Robz if we do, hold off if we don't.

[Robz888]

Before you kill me. I ask that each person who is voting for me say to himself, "Was this what scum Robz would have done?" If you think the answer is yes, I accept that I am today's lynch.

[Galzria]

Okay caught up. Voting for Robz would put him at L-1 and I think we should have a town direction for Frisk's kill before we do that. I personally agree that with Frisk not using his action is probably the best move. I'll check back in later today, see if we have consensus, and vote for Robz if we do, hold off if we don't.

I've said in the past, though it probably got overlooked, that I do not think he should fire.

[Galzria]

Before you kill me. I ask that each person who is voting for me say to himself, "Was this what scum Robz would have done?" If you think the answer is yes, I accept that I am today's lynch.

I believe I've already answered that, and the answer is yes. Simply because I believe scum Robz would play that way so that he can use the "would scum Robz play this way" defense. Especially in a RMM game.

[Robz888]

Before you kill me. I ask that each person who is voting for me say to himself, "Was this what scum Robz would have done?" If you think the answer is yes, I accept that I am today's lynch.

I believe I've already answered that, and the answer is yes. Simply because I believe scum Robz would play that way so that he can use the "would scum Robz play this way" defense. Especially in a RMM game.

You have, thank you. Hopefully this will turn out to be an educational experience about what scum Robz would or would not do. And I don't mind being lynched as much when I'm town, so. Farewell.

[Captain_Frisk]

So to confirm - I am NOT strangling tonight - regardless of a RobZ flip?

[Galzria]

So to confirm - I am NOT strangling tonight - regardless of a RobZ flip?

That would be my vote. I believe Eevee, Dsell and Jorbles are in agreement as well.

[Captain_Frisk]

And what does it prove?  We wait for scum to kill me and prove my claim?  Gives town more time to take night actions?

[Galzria]

And what does it prove?  We wait for scum to kill me and prove my claim?  Gives town more time to take night actions?

What it doesn't do, is take unnecessary shots, that may or may not be helpful to the town, thus allowing a SK CF easier path to victory

What it doesn't do, is allow for bussing or redirecting. If you say "I'll kill X", and Y turns up strangled, you'll swear up and down that you targeted X - and we won't know if you're lying or not.

What it DOES, is extend the game by reducing deaths - and it's been shown in past games that the more game days there are, the better town seems to do, because it creates more information to work with. This is especially true in Role-Madness games.

[Captain_Frisk]

And what does it prove?  We wait for scum to kill me and prove my claim?  Gives town more time to take night actions?

What it doesn't do, is take unnecessary shots, that may or may not be helpful to the town, thus allowing a SK CF easier path to victory

What it doesn't do, is allow for bussing or redirecting. If you say "I'll kill X", and Y turns up strangled, you'll swear up and down that you targeted X - and we won't know if you're lying or not.

What it DOES, is extend the game by reducing deaths - and it's been shown in past games that the more game days there are, the better town seems to do, because it creates more information to work with. This is especially true in Role-Madness games.

Sigh... a role madness game in which I can't use my role

I agree though - for all of the reasons other than the SK one - since I am not SK.... I can just feel my impending doom coming and I don't like it.

[Galzria]

And what does it prove?  We wait for scum to kill me and prove my claim?  Gives town more time to take night actions?

What it doesn't do, is take unnecessary shots, that may or may not be helpful to the town, thus allowing a SK CF easier path to victory

What it doesn't do, is allow for bussing or redirecting. If you say "I'll kill X", and Y turns up strangled, you'll swear up and down that you targeted X - and we won't know if you're lying or not.

What it DOES, is extend the game by reducing deaths - and it's been shown in past games that the more game days there are, the better town seems to do, because it creates more information to work with. This is especially true in Role-Madness games.

Sigh... a role madness game in which I can't use my role

I agree though - for all of the reasons other than the SK one - since I am not SK.... I can just feel my impending doom coming and I don't like it.

Better than a Role-Madness game where you've essentially been assigned "no-role", which is the case for me. i don't blame eHal - it wasn't intentional - but it's how it worked out.

[Dsell]

And what does it prove?  We wait for scum to kill me and prove my claim?  Gives town more time to take night actions?

What it doesn't do, is take unnecessary shots, that may or may not be helpful to the town, thus allowing a SK CF easier path to victory

What it doesn't do, is allow for bussing or redirecting. If you say "I'll kill X", and Y turns up strangled, you'll swear up and down that you targeted X - and we won't know if you're lying or not.

What it DOES, is extend the game by reducing deaths - and it's been shown in past games that the more game days there are, the better town seems to do, because it creates more information to work with. This is especially true in Role-Madness games.

Sigh... a role madness game in which I can't use my role

I agree though - for all of the reasons other than the SK one - since I am not SK.... I can just feel my impending doom coming and I don't like it.

But...earlier you said that you had other powers, and as long as there were any left you had a kill. Ie your kill was something of a secondary role. Is your thirst for blood clouding your head?

[Captain_Frisk]

@DSell - only 1 power.

I did in fact target insomniac.  I strangled him:

Flavour name: Lazy Jack of All Trades
Role name: X-Shot Strongman Vig
Alignment: Town

Abilities:

You are truly a jack of all trades - and a master of none. Unfortunately, you spent all of your free time working out instead of practicing with weapons, learning how to track people, investigate them etc. On the plus side, you're pretty strong.

If you have any shots remaining, you may choose to kill someone at night. This kill is unblockable (breaks through doctor protection, bulletproof, etc.).

I'm not going to disclose the value of X.

I chose to target insomniac primarily based on #584

@Lekkit, I will say I am not what you think I am, and if I was it would still be a bad idea to try to lynch the SK day 1.

@Eevee Forgot I wanted to respond to your wanting to OMGUS me over the Jorbles thing. You should probably also note that I'm not the only experienced player who thinks I'm right ok. Robz has also voted for Jorbles, and Galz said that while he wouldn't yet he completely sees where I'm coming from.

Can't say anything about the ice cream though.

[Robz888]

And what does it prove?  We wait for scum to kill me and prove my claim?  Gives town more time to take night actions?

What it doesn't do, is take unnecessary shots, that may or may not be helpful to the town, thus allowing a SK CF easier path to victory

What it doesn't do, is allow for bussing or redirecting. If you say "I'll kill X", and Y turns up strangled, you'll swear up and down that you targeted X - and we won't know if you're lying or not.

What it DOES, is extend the game by reducing deaths - and it's been shown in past games that the more game days there are, the better town seems to do, because it creates more information to work with. This is especially true in Role-Madness games.

Sigh... a role madness game in which I can't use my role

I agree though - for all of the reasons other than the SK one - since I am not SK.... I can just feel my impending doom coming and I don't like it.

Better than a Role-Madness game where you've essentially been assigned "no-role", which is the case for me. i don't blame eHal - it wasn't intentional - but it's how it worked out.

I always get the best roles. It's giving me a sense of entitlement, if anything.

[Captain_Frisk]

The role that you've still been unwilling to full claim?

[Robz888]

The role that you've still been unwilling to full claim?

What? I full claimed it.

[Captain_Frisk]

The role that you've still been unwilling to full claim?

What? I full claimed it.

I thought that people had asked for the actual quote...?  I just skimmed back and didn't see it.

[Captain_Frisk]

2 discussions on the subject from what I can easily search.

Robz, can you "quote" your Role PM and the one where you get hit by my paintball?

BTW, Robz, you can post your role to clarify how it works... as long as you don't include the original quote tags. Just like other claimants have done.

You may claim that something is taken word-for-word from your role PM and you may use quote tags so long as the verifying info is omitted from the tag.

Eh, I've said what I needed to say.

[Galzria]

The role that you've still been unwilling to full claim?

What? I full claimed it.

You can copy/paste the whole PM, unmodified, in a quote box like this as long as you did not include the timestamp of eHal's original PM.

[ashersky]

On frisk, I think he should shoot, if we are believing him over the others (for the record, I do).  I think generally speaking, if he has a strong scum read, especially after Robz flip, it helps town for him to shoot.  Folks in other games probably know my philosophy as vig.

The SK worry exists, but SKs can help town in the beginning, and they need to kill mafia as much as we do, especially early.  Due to the other issues mentioned, I don't think we should direct or have it public to ensure delivery of the kill.

That is all predicated on trusting frisk's claim, which I know isn't universal.  Just wanted to drop in some thoughts before I go check my mail and get bogged down with work.

[cayvie]

Man, forcing people to quote their PMs sure is fun...

So the summary of last night's claims is:

Vig Frisk strangled Insomniac
MYSTERY PLAYER Ice cream coned Insomniac
Jorbles strawberryblocked Dsell
Watno cyanified Jorbles and Insomniac
Robz stole Jorbles's paint
Jo vanillized Galzria

am I missing anything important?

[Captain_Frisk]

Man, forcing people to quote their PMs sure is fun...

So the summary of last night's claims is:

Vig Frisk strangled Insomniac
MYSTERY PLAYER Ice cream coned Insomniac
Jorbles strawberryblocked Dsell
Watno cyanified Jorbles and Insomniac
Robz stole Jorbles's paint
Jo vanillized Galzria

am I missing anything important?

I think that is the extent of the claimants.  Galzria has semi claimed no role.

[cayvie]

Oh, Robz claimed he targeted Watno, my bad.

[cayvie]

Oh, and Watno says that Frisk is the only player who targeted Insomniac or Jorbles.

[cayvie]

Guys, I don't see how Robz could have killed Insomniac.

If Watno is telling the truth, then why didn't he see Robz do it? If Robz is ninja, then why is he covered in paint? If Watno is Robz's scumbuddy, then why is Robz covered in paint?

Maybe this has been explained, a lot was written last night.

[Watno]

The fact that Robz is refusing to quote his PM is quite strange. I think he might be scum, but I'd still prefer to lynch Frisk, because I'm pretty sure he is. Frisk being scum would also be an explanation why i only noticed one player targeting Insomniac.
If we let Frisk live, I think he shouldn't shoot, since I don't trust him.

@cayvie Frisk is the only I noticed tageting Insomniac or FRISK, not Jorbles. However, it seems that there was someone targeting him who was not noticed by me. Robz is covered in paint anyway, so I wouldn't notice if there are traces of it on him from killing Insomniac.

[cayvie]

The fact that Robz is refusing to quote his PM is quite strange. I think he might be scum, but I'd still prefer to lynch Frisk, because I'm pretty sure he is. Frisk being scum would also be an explanation why i only noticed one player targeting Insomniac.
If we let Frisk live, I think he shouldn't shoot, since I don't trust him.

@cayvie Frisk is the only I noticed tageting Insomniac or FRISK, not Jorbles. However, it seems that there was someone targeting him who was not noticed by me. Robz is covered in paint anyway, so I wouldn't notice if there are traces of it on him from killing Insomniac.

So you're saying Robz is covered in paint because he targeted you, he got jo's flavor by targeting him, and he targeted Insomniac to kill him?

[Robz888]

I'm not refusing to quote my PM, there's just nothing in it that's helpful beyond what I've said. But here you go:

Flavour name: KELPtomaniac
Role name: Thief
Alignment: Town

Abilities:

The Seaweed life is a hard life.  Stuck on the bottom of the ocean (or lake?) floor, it takes everything you have just to survive.  But whatever your troubles and pains, you always held your head high and reached for the stars above the waves.  And the sunlight.  Gotta love that sunlight.  Of course, whenever you are able, you are happy to lift a little extra from the chumps (and the chum) around you.

Each night, you may target one other player to steal something from them related to their flavour.  Depending on the target and what is stolen, this may have additional effects such as roleblocking them or granting you a 1-shot ability.

You may save stolen items that give 1-shots, but you can only carry one of each (no saving multiples).  You can only use one 1-shot at a time, and you can’t steal on the same night that you use a 1-shot.

I have no idea what the seaweed stuff is all about.

[Captain_Frisk]

So you can steal my other glove?

[jotheonah]

Guys, I don't see how Robz could have killed Insomniac.

If Watno is telling the truth, then why didn't he see Robz do it? If Robz is ninja, then why is he covered in paint? If Watno is Robz's scumbuddy, then why is Robz covered in paint?

Maybe this has been explained, a lot was written last night.

Watno sees people because they get some paint on them. If Robz was already covered in blue paint, Watno wouldn't see the extra blue paint from killing Insomniac.

[Robz888]

So you can steal my other glove?

Oh yeah, good point. I'm definitely stealing from Frisk if somehow I'm not lynched.

[Robz888]

So you can steal my other glove?

Oh yeah, good point. I'm definitely stealing from Frisk if somehow I'm not lynched.

... which is why he'll kill me.

[Robz888]

So you can steal my other glove?

Oh yeah, good point. I'm definitely stealing from Frisk if somehow I'm not lynched.

... which is why he'll kill me.

So I'm just going to rescind that plan.

[jotheonah]

The fact that Robz is refusing to quote his PM is quite strange. I think he might be scum, but I'd still prefer to lynch Frisk, because I'm pretty sure he is. Frisk being scum would also be an explanation why i only noticed one player targeting Insomniac.
If we let Frisk live, I think he shouldn't shoot, since I don't trust him.

@cayvie Frisk is the only I noticed tageting Insomniac or FRISK, not Jorbles. However, it seems that there was someone targeting him who was not noticed by me. Robz is covered in paint anyway, so I wouldn't notice if there are traces of it on him from killing Insomniac.

So you're saying Robz is covered in paint because he targeted you, he got jo's flavor by targeting him, and he targeted Insomniac to kill him?

This is a very good point. It is a bit of a stretch to imagine Robz can target three people in one night.

[ashersky]

For what it's worth, the seaweed flavor sounds sort of like Spongebob to me.

So did the fingerless glove, actually, if you've seen the Spongebob movie.

[Captain_Frisk]

For what it's worth, the seaweed flavor sounds sort of like Spongebob to me.

So did the fingerless glove, actually, if you've seen the Spongebob movie.

I have not, nor have I watched any buffy other than the movie.  Has anyone figured out what the song means?

[ashersky]

For what it's worth, the seaweed flavor sounds sort of like Spongebob to me.

So did the fingerless glove, actually, if you've seen the Spongebob movie.

I have not, nor have I watched any buffy other than the movie.  Has anyone figured out what the song means?

Spike is the only one who notably wore gloves.  Town aligned vig makes sense for him...did you have a headache after killing? 

[Captain_Frisk]

Not to my knowledge - the only end of day modfirmation I got was the music.

[cayvie]

For what it's worth, the seaweed flavor sounds sort of like Spongebob to me.

So did the fingerless glove, actually, if you've seen the Spongebob movie.

I have not, nor have I watched any buffy other than the movie.  Has anyone figured out what the song means?

Spike is the only one who notably wore gloves.  Town aligned vig makes sense for him...did you have a headache after killing?

as i said earlier, the flavor states that we care about prom.

timeline wise, this means that spike is not our friend!

[jotheonah]

Maybe it's Dawn's prom.

[cayvie]

Maybe it's Dawn's prom.

spike still wouldn't get headaches >:|

[Captain_Frisk]

This has crossed into a weird place.  What is spike?  Dawn? 

[cayvie]

hahahahaha

we should probably stop talking about this since buffy is eminently spoilable.

i'm basically reaching the conclusion that "read the freaking flavour" is a big troll anyway.

[Captain_Frisk]

This dbag?  No clearly I look like the picture a few pages back.

[jotheonah]

I think Buffy is largely irrelevant. I was just doing the edge-case thing to cayvie's prom comment.

[ftl]

Here's the mafiascum page on Thief. http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Thief .

[ftl]

According to "canon"/"standard mafiascum knowledge" (for what little that is worth), thief isn't a common mafia role, and is actually likely to be town. But not necessarily, and I'd rather not wifom with the mod, so we'll just say that Robz's roleclaim itself is not obviously scummy but not necessarily townie either. 

[ftl]

And with all this, we still have no good explanation for how a vanilla ice cream scoop ended up in insomniac's death flavor.

[shraeye]

Yo, just made it back from the extreme lands of working too much.  Commencing read of day 2.

[Jorbles]

And with all this, we still have no good explanation for how a vanilla ice cream scoop ended up in insomniac's death flavor.

It could make sense if Robz had stolen from joth instead of from me and then used the power he gained on Insomniac OR joth targeted Insomniac and Watno didn't see it OR there's an unknown player out there who somehow targeted joth to try and frame him in the kill OR there's another player out there who is vanilla ice cream themed. Lots of possibilities, but are there any we can rule out?

I am going to hold off my vote on putting Robz at L-1 for now, even though I think there's a possibility the discrepancy in what is claimed is because he is lying. I can't see any other reason why he'd be covered in the cyan paint. There still seems to be things worth discussing, though.

I think Frisk should not kill. If he kills undirected he can spin all sorts of reasons for who he killed, and if he kills directed there's no guarantee we'll direct him correctly and he could be bus driven, or claim he was, and we'll have a confusing decision to make tomorrow. On the topic of Frisk, is the reason he is not covered in paint despite targeting Insomniac that he is a ninja/strongman or is he just claiming he is a strongman? Ninja/strongman screams SK to me, and to a lesser degree so does strongman, but an SK who is pretending to be a vig is less dangerous than mafia at the moment, so I'd rather leave him alive for now.

[ftl]

On the topic of Frisk, is the reason he is not covered in paint despite targeting Insomniac that he is a ninja/strongman or is he just claiming he is a strongman?

He DID have paint on him. That's how Watno knew that he targeted Insom.

The two people who are COVERED in paint are the ones hit by Watno. Ideally the people who targeted the blue people would also have paint on them. Except not Robz, because Watno didn't target Robz, he targeted Jorbles, so he doesn't know who targeted Robz. And apparently not the second person who targeted Insomniac, because we're pretty sure two people targeted Insomniac based on flavor.

[Eevee]

Frisk is NOT a ninja. You people seem to be speculating without really understanding what happened (it took Galzria and Dsell walking me through everything for me to ge there, I do know it's confusing). Main point: Frisk accounts for the strangulation, but Watno claims not to have seen anyone else, yet someone also killed Ins with the cone. Either Watno is lying or someone somehow went untracked. Watno tracks people by shooting them with a paintball gun and seeing traces of paint on people who targeted that person. He wouldn't on Robz, because he was already covered in the paint! And Robz's role is thief, so it's concievable he could have stolen joth's flavour to make the kill look ice cream themed. I repeat, I think either Robz did it or watno is lying, cause otherwise someone ELSE would have needed to be a ninja capable of stealing flavor.. which is super far-fetched because WE ALREADY HAVE A THIEF WHO WAS COVERED IN PAINT SO COULDNT HAVE BEEN TRACKED.

Robz, as I said earlier, I've resigned from trying to figure what you would or wouldn't do because you always seem to be one step ahead. You also have done this continuous town claim when it looks hopeless before. I think you being scum is the simplest and cleanest way to explain what happened at night (see this post and iirc my last post for my thought process). Can you offer any other explanation for what happened?

[Galzria]

There's only one question I don't see a logical answer for, but let me expand on my thoughts for why Robz:

Watno isn't a tracker. He's a backwards tracker. This is an important distinction. He targets people (let's call the X) covers them in paint, and then can tell who targeted X by examining who the paint spread to.

In this case, he supposedly targeted Jorbles and Insomniac - but for whatever reason, hit Robz and Insomniac.

So 2 people are covered in paint. Now along comes CF, all nice and clean. He walks up to Insomniac, says "Yo", and strangles him - in the process getting all this fresh paint on himself. As such, he's easily viewable to Watno, and Watno reports this to us.

Sadly, that is ALL Watno sees. Nobody else has residual paint on themselves.

Now, here's Robz. A proclaimed flavour thief. Covered head to toe in paint already. If HE went and targeted Insomniac, nobody would be the wiser. But what he claims is to have targeted Watno. Here is Robz' (belated) PM:

Flavour name: KELPtomaniac
Role name: Thief
Alignment: Town

Abilities:

The Seaweed life is a hard life.  Stuck on the bottom of the ocean (or lake?) floor, it takes everything you have just to survive.  But whatever your troubles and pains, you always held your head high and reached for the stars above the waves.  And the sunlight.  Gotta love that sunlight.  Of course, whenever you are able, you are happy to lift a little extra from the chumps (and the chum) around you.

Each night, you may target one other player to steal something from them related to their flavour.  Depending on the target and what is stolen, this may have additional effects such as roleblocking them or granting you a 1-shot ability.

You may save stolen items that give 1-shots, but you can only carry one of each (no saving multiples).  You can only use one 1-shot at a time, and you can’t steal on the same night that you use a 1-shot.

So if he targeted Watno, what did he steal relating to Watno's flavour? Was Watno Roleblocked? No. So did Robz gain a 1-shot? Not that he's claimed. So I have trouble believing this claim to be accurate.

More than that though, what logically fits is that he stole Joth's flavour, and used it to kill Insomniac. He wasn't seen doing this because he was already covered in paint. As mentioned in my first sentence, the only inconsistency is how Robz got covered and not Jorbles. The first thing that jumped to my mind there is that Watno targeted Robz, and not Jorbles, to cover his tracks. But there are certainly other options (like perhaps Jorbles/Robz were busdriven).

The simple fact that Watno claims to have seen nobody else covered in residual paint points either to Robz or him - or both - lying.

[Galzria]

... Wow, Eevee, man, we Hydra'ing or something? Get outta my head!

[cayvie]

Okay, so if we wind up lynching Robz, would you advocate that Frisk kill Watno if Robz turns up town?

[Eevee]

Okay, so if we wind up lynching Robz, would you advocate that Frisk kill Watno if Robz turns up town?

If we want him to kill at all, then I'd say yes. Or possibly one of the ice cream neighbors, because we have reason to assume it's somewhat likely there is scum in the neighborhood + if Robz isn't scum, then the ice cream flavor of the kill would need to be explained some other way.

If Robz is scum, the odds of Frisk hitting scum are even lower, so then I'd be even more opposed to him shooting. Isn't being forced to not shoot pretty much the worst thing that could happen to a serial killing Frisk? We'd need theorel to crunch us some numbers!

[Jorbles]

Okay, are these claims correct?
1 ) Frisk killed Insomniac leaving a black glove. (source: Frisk)
2 ) Watno put paint on me (Jorbles). (source: Watno)
3 ) Watno put paint on Insomniac. (source: Watno)
4 ) Watno received confirmation that Frisk had targetted Insomniac. (source: Watno)
5 ) Robz stole from Watno and the cyan paint exploded on him. (source: Robz)
6 ) jotheonah targeted Galzria with vanilla ice cream. (source: joth)
7 ) Galzria ate vanilla ice cream. (source: Galzria)
8 ) I (Jorbles) targeted Dsell with strawberry ice cream roleblocking him. (source: Jorbles)
9 ) Dsell ate strawberry ice cream. (source: Dsell)
10 ) Watno claims no info on the second Insomniac kill.
11 ) Robz is flavour kelp and role thief. (source: Robz)
12 ) Jorbles is flavour strawberry ice cream and role neighbour-x-shot roleblocker. (source: Jorbles)
13 ) Jotheonah is flavour vanilla ice cream and role neighbour-x-shot unclaimed (though I, Jorbles claim he has role claimed in the neighbourhood.) (source: jotheonah)
14 ) Frisk is flavour Jack of all Trades/black-glove-related and role X-shot vigilante strongman, not a ninja. (source: Frisk)
15 ) watno is flavour cyan paintball gun guy and role something kinda like a reverse tracker. (source: Watno)
16 ) Galzria is flavour unknown and role something that doesn't involve him taking a night action because he either doesn't want to or can't. (source: Galzria)
17 ) Eevee has a targetted role that could misfire if it targets something to do with the mail. (source: Eevee)

Stuff the mod wrote in the original post that we are trying to figure out:
A) Insomniac was killed. One killer left behind a black fingerless glove.
B) Insomniac was killed again. The other killer left behind a vanilla ice cream scoop.
C) Insomniac was covered in paint.
D) Robz was covered in paint.
E) eHalc confirmed he had forgotten to send Dsell a night message.

The claimed evidence for (A) is (1), (3) and (4).
The claimed evidence for (C) is (3).
The claimed evidence for (D) is (5) and (14).

We have no evidence for (B) so let's assume that was a scum kill. Frisk's kill may have been SK or a Vig kill. We have no way of knowing. But as we have no other vig claims trying to cast doubt on Frisk let's assume the ice cream scoop kill was the mafia kill. I don't have a scum read on joth, but with his vanilla ice cream claim the evidence is really pointing at him. Though we can't rule out that the mafia doesn't have a way to associate other player's flavour with kills.

Eevee, Dsell, Galzria, can you check the above? You seem to have the best handle on what's going on right now.

I think that it is weird that I did not wake covered in paint, but if Robz and I were bus driven that could explain it. I admit this is the most likely explanation. Bus driver mostly just confuses town and I believe is usually a scum role.

i) Watno could be telling the truth if joth is a ninja in addition to his other claim. This would be if he is a ninja and a neighbour and his other role is a lie and Galzria and Jorbles are both lying to cover for him. Robz and Jorbles would have to have been bus driven in this scenario. (or somehow had the paint get from Jorbles to Robz)
ii) Watno could also be telling the truth if joth was targetted by some sort of mafia flavour thief ninja (most likely explanation is Robz, but it's possible it's someone else or there's some mafia team synergy going on). Robz and I would have to have been bus driven in this scenario.

(i) seems to complicated and would involve a Galzria, joth, Jorbles scum team. I know this is not the case.
(ii) seems the most likely, except why would mafia bus drive a scum player? To protect him is I guess possible, especially if they thought Robz came off scummy d1 and they wanted to redirect anyone targetting him to me.

iii) Robz could be telling the truth if eHalc had planned that any targetted thefts on Watno would result in a paint explosion and it's one of the "additional affects such as roleblocking them or granting you a 1-shot ability". In this scenario some other unclaimed player would need to have done something to prevent actions from happening to Jorbles or Robz and Jorbles would need to be bus driven and Robz was actually hit with paint twice or Watno is lying and actually targetted Robz not Jorbles.

(iii) watno could be lying, but I think Robz is probably the better liar of the two of them, but this scenario seems ridiculous to me. I think Robz must have been bus driven with me to protect him/sew confusion.

[Jorbles]

Okay, are these claims correct?
5 ) Robz stole from Watno and the cyan paint exploded on him. (source: Robz)
15 ) watno is flavour cyan paintball gun guy and role something kinda like a reverse tracker. (source: Watno)

Stuff the mod wrote in the original post that we are trying to figure out:
D) Robz was covered in paint.

The claimed evidence for (D) is (5) and (15).

Sorry I made a mistake stating that the claimed evidence for (D) was (5) and (14). It's actually (5) and (15).

[Eevee]

Okay, are these claims correct?
1 ) Frisk killed Insomniac leaving a black glove. (source: Frisk)
2 ) Watno put paint on me (Jorbles). (source: Watno)
3 ) Watno put paint on Insomniac. (source: Watno)
4 ) Watno received confirmation that Frisk had targetted Insomniac. (source: Watno)
5 ) Robz stole from Watno and the cyan paint exploded on him. (source: Robz)
6 ) jotheonah targeted Galzria with vanilla ice cream. (source: joth)
7 ) Galzria ate vanilla ice cream. (source: Galzria)
8 ) I (Jorbles) targeted Dsell with strawberry ice cream roleblocking him. (source: Jorbles)
9 ) Dsell ate strawberry ice cream. (source: Dsell)
10 ) Watno claims no info on the second Insomniac kill.
11 ) Robz is flavour kelp and role thief. (source: Robz)
12 ) Jorbles is flavour strawberry ice cream and role neighbour-x-shot roleblocker. (source: Jorbles)
13 ) Jotheonah is flavour vanilla ice cream and role neighbour-x-shot unclaimed (though I, Jorbles claim he has role claimed in the neighbourhood.) (source: jotheonah)
14 ) Frisk is flavour Jack of all Trades/black-glove-related and role X-shot vigilante strongman, not a ninja. (source: Frisk)
15 ) watno is flavour cyan paintball gun guy and role something kinda like a reverse tracker. (source: Watno)
16 ) Galzria is flavour unknown and role something that doesn't involve him taking a night action because he either doesn't want to or can't. (source: Galzria)
17 ) Eevee has a targetted role that could misfire if it targets something to do with the mail. (source: Eevee)

Stuff the mod wrote in the original post that we are trying to figure out:
A) Insomniac was killed. One killer left behind a black fingerless glove.
B) Insomniac was killed again. The other killer left behind a vanilla ice cream scoop.
C) Insomniac was covered in paint.
D) Robz was covered in paint.
E) eHalc confirmed he had forgotten to send Dsell a night message.

The claimed evidence for (A) is (1), (3) and (4).
The claimed evidence for (C) is (3).
The claimed evidence for (D) is (5) and (14).

We have no evidence for (B) so let's assume that was a scum kill. Frisk's kill may have been SK or a Vig kill. We have no way of knowing. But as we have no other vig claims trying to cast doubt on Frisk let's assume the ice cream scoop kill was the mafia kill. I don't have a scum read on joth, but with his vanilla ice cream claim the evidence is really pointing at him. Though we can't rule out that the mafia doesn't have a way to associate other player's flavour with kills.

Eevee, Dsell, Galzria, can you check the above? You seem to have the best handle on what's going on right now.

I think that it is weird that I did not wake covered in paint, but if Robz and I were bus driven that could explain it. I admit this is the most likely explanation. Bus driver mostly just confuses town and I believe is usually a scum role.

i) Watno could be telling the truth if joth is a ninja in addition to his other claim. This would be if he is a ninja and a neighbour and his other role is a lie and Galzria and Jorbles are both lying to cover for him. Robz and Jorbles would have to have been bus driven in this scenario. (or somehow had the paint get from Jorbles to Robz)
ii) Watno could also be telling the truth if joth was targetted by some sort of mafia flavour thief ninja (most likely explanation is Robz, but it's possible it's someone else or there's some mafia team synergy going on). Robz and I would have to have been bus driven in this scenario.

(i) seems to complicated and would involve a Galzria, joth, Jorbles scum team. I know this is not the case.
(ii) seems the most likely, except why would mafia bus drive a scum player? To protect him is I guess possible, especially if they thought Robz came off scummy d1 and they wanted to redirect anyone targetting him to me.

iii) Robz could be telling the truth if eHalc had planned that any targetted thefts on Watno would result in a paint explosion and it's one of the "additional affects such as roleblocking them or granting you a 1-shot ability". In this scenario some other unclaimed player would need to have done something to prevent actions from happening to Jorbles or Robz and Jorbles would need to be bus driven and Robz was actually hit with paint twice or Watno is lying and actually targetted Robz not Jorbles.

(iii) watno could be lying, but I think Robz is probably the better liar of the two of them, but this scenario seems ridiculous to me. I think Robz must have been bus driven with me to protect him/sew confusion.

1) Frisk doesn't know for sure he left the glove, but he assumes he did. Also him not being ninja is not just his claim, it is verified by Watno getting a tracking result on him.

I think other than that, you covered the situation perfectly, at least I don't notice any mistakes.
Robz's claim also doesn't add up as Galzria repeatedly has mentioned, he says he targeted Watno and.. got nothing? Also the delay in pasting the role pom.
And it's good to remember traditionally there is scum in neighborhoods like that, so that implicated you and joth a bit. Especially if Robz isn't town, because the ice cream came from somewhere. Also I guess worth noting: joth was comfortable claiming your role without asking you first, but you still haven't revealed his (not saying you should or that joth shouldn't have, but that also happened today).

Why would you and Galz need to be lying for Jot to be scum? Couldn't he have claimed a fake role in the neighborhood, then ninja-kill Insomniac and on top of that give ice cream to Galzria that did or didn't do anything (Galz says he had no role to block so he wouldn't know)?

[Captain_Frisk]

Btw, reverse tracker is called watcher galz.

[Galzria]

Only Dsell answered this, but it could also be important:

Did anybody else target me last night? I mentioned very early on today that two occurrences happened to me, and it was while I was pondering the first that I was fed the ice cream. I would like to know the source of my first ponderence - or at least to know if anyone will fess up to it.

Actually, hmm... Maybe that's not the safest way to do things. This is what I know: While I sat pondering the meaning of the song last night, I was targeted by someone, and something (I know what) happened. It was while I was pondering the occurrence of the first event that I was fed Ice Cream. I did not ponder the reason for the Ice Cream, I simply enjoyed it.

I'm trying to figure out my own little mystery, but I don't want it to be at the detriment of town. However, knowing what I'm dealing with could help me not kill myself tonight (yes, it's a concern). How should I handle this? I really don't want to fish - and this could all be a red herring - but I don't know what to do.

[Jorbles]

...
i) Watno could be telling the truth if joth is a ninja in addition to his other claim. This would be if he is a ninja and a neighbour and his other role is a lie and Galzria and Jorbles are both lying to cover for him. Robz and Jorbles would have to have been bus driven in this scenario. (or somehow had the paint get from Jorbles to Robz)
...
(i) seems to complicated and would involve a Galzria, joth, Jorbles scum team. I know this is not the case.
...

...

Why would you and Galz need to be lying for Jot to be scum? Couldn't he have claimed a fake role in the neighborhood, then ninja-kill Insomniac and on top of that give ice cream to Galzria that did or didn't do anything (Galz says he had no role to block so he wouldn't know)?
[/quote]

Sorry you're right. Faulty logic. My assumption was that if joth is scum than he got one of his scum buddies to back up his neighbour claim, but also that I was backing him up as a neighbour. It doesn't actually make sense now that I think about it. Your explanation is possible though I think if he's a ninja-neighbour-other role than that is madness... role madness even.

Anyhow I'm convinced that Robz is probably scum. Even him being bus driven makes sense for a scum team to do. They redirect possible town targeting of their scummiest team mate.

I am ready to put him at L-1. So uhhh here it is. Vote: Robz888.

[Eevee]

Galzria, I can relate, sounds a lot like my problem. Can't help you though, didn't target you.

We definitely need to agree on a plan for Frisk a) in case Robz flips scum and b) in case Robz flips town. I guess if he flips SK we can pretty much trust Frisk to be a vig and let him do whatever he wants. L-1, so sooner better than later! Although neither O or Morgrim are playing so just maybe this town has enough sense to not hammer before we are done discussing. I don't remember hearing so much from shraeye and Lekkit at least today, so everyone hold off voting until we are ready.

Is it not shooting then, I don't see anyone really arguing heavily in favor of shooting?

[shraeye]

Whoa, I missed a lot.  Wow. 

So if I'm to believe the many accusations flying around, and they all certainly have their evidence, then Frisk is SK, watno is most certainly lying and is scum, Robz is watno's partner and is a scummy thief, jorbles is also watno's scum partner and that's why watno targeted him, and joth is scum because his vanillla flavor showed up.  So great, game solved.  Except that's crazy. 
Eevee says

It almost seems too good to be true, we might have stumbled upon more than half of the scum early day 2 without any direct investigations?

and I agree with Robz that this absolutely IS too good to be true.  But figuring out who's lying and who's actually scummy is a tough effin' task.  As I was catching up page after page, my mouth just hung open stupified.  It has to be that someone with a public claim is lying.  There's just too much stuff flying around and these bits of info are most definitely not pieces of the same puzzle, because I'm finding it impossible to put them all together.

With this many scummy characters flying around, I'm almost certain that some of them are actual scum, and it wouldn't surprise me if their scum partners were taking active roles in pushing the "fake" cases that also sound reasonable. 

@Galz, why did you seem so certain that watno has to be a scumpair with someone else who's also catching heat? I had a pretty solid town-read on watno the first day, but today I find his statements the most confusing.  But the reason I find them confusing I guess is because they make so many other claims harder to explain.  But somehow my gut reaction is still to take what he's saying as true, and try to figure out which other statements most likely have to be lies because of that.  I probably won't have the energy to do that tonight, but I plan on looking at it tomorrow.

I'm not so inclined to believe joth/jorbles both being town.  An argument from them is that it's simple scum play to kill the 3rd QT member and use all the scoops yourself.  But Frisk's post

See - I think that as scum with daytalking neighbors, I would absolutely not want to kill them.  I assum this is why Galz kept me alive in BMMMMMM1, because he could talk / guide me privately.  Saving up your scoops?  You and Joth had 7?  Even 1 per night is going to last you a long time.  How often do you live to day 4?

is probably what I would also do as scum in either of your situations.  I think the argument has been made that it would be doubly-bad play for joth to go after jorbles, get him (presumably town in this hypothetical) lynched, which sets Joth up for day 3 lynch.  So therefore joth isn't scum.  I don't understand.  It looks to me like you both are thinking now that the other is most definitely town due to not taking the "obvious scumplay".  And maybe other people are believing this too.  Well let me say that the scenario where everyone believes you both are conftown AND you have a patsy town member to direct badly through QT would be the best as scum.  This is all to say that I think it's perfectly reasonable for either of you to have passed up the obvious scumplay and tried for a more powerful one.  So I won't give either of you any town-cred for that.

about Frisk. why are we not suspecting that he's SK anymore.  It sure seems that way to me, despite the convenient adding of "vig" to his roleclaim.  I think joth has already said that he knew Frisk was Vig, and that Frisk himself called joth out for that!  Here's where my mafia-newness will be a detriment.  How often does an SK claim vig? Are we not worrying about its believableness because we can now decide to direct his kill around?  From reading all the arguments about directing his kill, it seems that no-kill is the best option to me.

About Robz.  Galzria and Dsell both make a good case about Robz.  (By the way, I vaguely recall somebody making a scum pairing including Galz, who made that and what was the explanation?  Because I'm still super wary of Galz, and I can't tell when he's explaining sometimes whether he's being clear and helping me make informed decisions [town], or being forceful and pushing me to sheep his decisions [scummy]).  Back onto Robz topic.  I was thinking about ashersky's post #940 where he said that Robz's claim made no sense.  I am really confused about how Robz only soaked up half of watno's tracking, and find it somewhat convenient that the successful half is the half that hit insom and found Frisk.  So I guess that's watno/Robz double suspicion that I was asking Galz about earlier.  But back to only-Robz arguments.  I really really didn't like this post from Robz.

I fully admit that my role looks like a scum role. It's mystifyingly town.

Why post that?  I don't recall anyone speculating about your role at that point, and nobody had yet called it a scummy-looking role I believe.  It's a predefense of an argument that wasn't even made yet.  That just reads to be like a very scummy thing to do, because you're analyzing at every turn what suspicions your actions might arouse.  It just seems super phony to laugh off the scummy-looking aspects of your role before anybody had pointed out the scummy-looking aspects of your role.  That being said, I definitely don't want to lynch Robz right now, (WE HAVE 10 MORE DAYS!!, icancountright?).  I want to use that time to see if we can't piece everything together better.  I mean, ashersky has been here like once? Lekkit can't jump in fully yet because he's still at his parents, and I just showed up for basically the first time in Day 2 roughly 3 hours ago.

[shraeye]

tl;dr 

Nobody effin' hammer Robz right now.

[Galzria]

Galzria, I can relate, sounds a lot like my problem. Can't help you though, didn't target you.

We definitely need to agree on a plan for Frisk a) in case Robz flips scum and b) in case Robz flips town. I guess if he flips SK we can pretty much trust Frisk to be a vig and let him do whatever he wants. L-1, so sooner better than later! Although neither O or Morgrim are playing so just maybe this town has enough sense to not hammer before we are done discussing. I don't remember hearing so much from shraeye and Lekkit at least today, so everyone hold off voting until we are ready.

Is it not shooting then, I don't see anyone really arguing heavily in favor of shooting?

I am generally in favor of not shooting. Seeing as bus driver is a possibility, we can't count on directing his kill without causing mass confusion and basically GIVING scum (assuming Frisk is town) a completely controlled second kill. Which means it's "random" (ie. His choice) or nothing. Tonight, I would opt for nothing.

[shraeye]

other summaries of above post:
Frisk don't shoot.
I still think joth/jorbles has 1 scum
Robz is suspicious, but DON'T HAMMER YET
will relook at watno's stuff tomorrow (could he be telling the truth, and what are the implications for others' claims in that case?)

[Robz888]

If I were scum, right now I would just hammer myself, because me being lynched is a foregone conclusion, and it would be beneficial to deprive the town of further discussion.

Because I am not scum, carry on.

[jotheonah]

If I were scum, right now I would just hammer myself, because me being lynched is a foregone conclusion, and it would be beneficial to deprive the town of further discussion.

Because I am not scum, carry on.

Nice try. If I had less respect for the rules, I would literally quote this into another game right now. 

[Robz888]

If I were scum, right now I would just hammer myself, because me being lynched is a foregone conclusion, and it would be beneficial to deprive the town of further discussion.

Because I am not scum, carry on.

Nice try. If I had less respect for the rules, I would literally quote this into another game right now. 

Hahahaha

[shraeye]

If I were scum, right now I would just hammer myself, because me being lynched is a foregone conclusion, and it would be beneficial to deprive the town of further discussion.

Because I am not scum, carry on.

Or maybe we're waaay off base on everything (but your scumminess), and the longer we theorize these ideas out of our dumb brains, the better chance your team has in the future.

[Galzria]

other summaries of above post:
Frisk don't shoot.
I still think joth/jorbles has 1 scum
Robz is suspicious, but DON'T HAMMER YET
will relook at watno's stuff tomorrow (could he be telling the truth, and what are the implications for others' claims in that case?)

I'm answering your question above while quoting here:

Watno COULD be telling the truth. So could any of these people. What we KNOW is that they can't all be telling the truth TOGETHER. Since everything boils back to: There were two kills, Watno only saw one killer, he tends to crop up in a lot of scum pairings. But that doesn't make him scum.

For me, the overlying evidence is the Vanilla Ice Cream, and how it got there. Joth could've done it, but then why didn't he have paint on him? Maybe he did, and scumbuddy Watno just didn't tell us. Jorbles could've done it, seeing as his role is usually a scum role - maybe he could use other Ice Cream flavors - but again, where's his paint stains?
Robz could've done it. He IS a flavor thief after all. But then how did he get covered in paint? Maybe scumbuddy Watno shot him so that it hid him from being associated.

But then, there are explanations where Watno is telling the truth too. So for me, I've kinda fleshed out every possibility that I've seen throughout the day. Yes, Watno is in a lot of those. But ultimately I decided Robz was the single most likely suspect character. Doesn't mean he's scum, but I've got the strongest read there. So I'm voting him and not Watno.

[Robz888]

When I turn up town, I hope everyone does some soul-searching about who stand to gain the most from getting rid of me.

[shraeye]

And who is that?  I'm really trying to figure that out right now myself.

[Galzria]

If I were scum, right now I would just hammer myself, because me being lynched is a foregone conclusion, and it would be beneficial to deprive the town of further discussion.

Because I am not scum, carry on.

Says the guy who has continued to call everyone idiots for lynching a claimed townie in every game that he's been lynched as scum in... AFTER the lynch, but before thread lock!

[Galzria]

When I turn up town, I hope everyone does some soul-searching about who stand to gain the most from getting rid of me.

And yet, if you were not you, you would vote for you:

If I were not me, I would definitely vote for me. My role does seem scummy. I don't think the people starting a wagon against me are scum.

[shraeye]

You know... would town robz be vague like this? Like if robz were town, and he had a role with a scummy-sounding name, and sort of confusing mechanics... wouldn't he be clearer?

Dunno. Maybe I do believe him, on second thought it seems more plausible for a few reasons. Not voting for him yet even though I've really wanted to lynch him earlier, I'm so having some doubts.

...or maybe I shouldn't believe him - Robz, are you a plant?

Wait, Robz was something KELP related, right?  Is this a thing?  What do *you* think about Robz?

[shraeye]

arg, the "you" above means ftl.

I'm trying to stop writing you so often in mafia games.  In my head it's super clear who I'm talking to, but after reading so many vague "you"s from others in all the games, I'm really trying to stop that mistake.

[Galzria]

You know... would town robz be vague like this? Like if robz were town, and he had a role with a scummy-sounding name, and sort of confusing mechanics... wouldn't he be clearer?

Dunno. Maybe I do believe him, on second thought it seems more plausible for a few reasons. Not voting for him yet even though I've really wanted to lynch him earlier, I'm so having some doubts.

...or maybe I shouldn't believe him - Robz, are you a plant?

Wait, Robz was something KELP related, right?  Is this a thing?  What do *you* think about Robz?

Now THAT'S an interesting find.

[Galzria]

You know... would town robz be vague like this? Like if robz were town, and he had a role with a scummy-sounding name, and sort of confusing mechanics... wouldn't he be clearer?

Dunno. Maybe I do believe him, on second thought it seems more plausible for a few reasons. Not voting for him yet even though I've really wanted to lynch him earlier, I'm so having some doubts.

...or maybe I shouldn't believe him - Robz, are you a plant?

Wait, Robz was something KELP related, right?  Is this a thing?  What do *you* think about Robz?

Now THAT'S an interesting find.

unvote so no hammer. I want to hear from ftl.

[Eevee]

Couple of comments to shraeye's big post:

The reason we are not that worried about Frisk is that we will likely find the truth about him later anyways (role madness, plenty of ways to catch him I would think) and he can't really do any damage to us now, we have concluded he is either a vig (good) or a serial killer who now has to play exactly like a vig would (again good, because we essentially have a vig for now we later might need to lynch). So, he is not a good lynch target for today, because he is useful if he's town, he isn't dangerous if he is scum, and we probably won't need to take a gamble on it because later we'll probably KNOW which it was.

I'm surprised at the scum read on Galzria and that section of your post looks scummy as hell. You saw someone say Galzria could be scum, don't even remember who or what the case was, but still are excited to go read back to see what it was because you so want Galzria to be scum!? He has been extremely helpful today and is actually my strongest town read of the entire town because of that (YES YES he could be scum but he for example essentially made the case against Robz who I think is very likely to be scum.. shraeye, you too seemed to suspect Robz, how do you explain this!?). You going after him like that makes it seem like you don't really consider the actual facts but rather try to look for evidence you'd want to be true..  sound like mafia behavior much? I do recall having this argument about trusting one's gut versus the actual facts earlier, so this might also be a difference in playstyle / viewpoint rather than actual scumminess  (hmm not sure, maybe that was with SfS actually, can you confirm?).

Also, the last line of your summary.. IF WATNO IS LYING, HE IS SCUM. People don't seem to consider this enough. WHATEVER THEORIES YOU HAVE, THEY NEED TO ACCOUNT FOR THE MISSING TRACKING RESULT OR YOU NEED TO BE VOTING FOR WATNO.

And @ "too good to be true"
Certainly I don't think they are all scum. But for example finding 2 scum in the group of Robz Frisk Watno Jorbles Jotheonah would be EXCELLENT for day 2, now all we need to do is figure out a narrative that explains all actions sufficiently and then later adjust it to flips and stuff.

Overall that post gave me a weird vibe, shraeye is now on par with Lekkit as a mostly gut based scum read for me outside the group we've discussed today so far.

PPE: 12 new replies holy canoly, I'll post this anyway before reading them.

[Robz888]

You know... would town robz be vague like this? Like if robz were town, and he had a role with a scummy-sounding name, and sort of confusing mechanics... wouldn't he be clearer?

Dunno. Maybe I do believe him, on second thought it seems more plausible for a few reasons. Not voting for him yet even though I've really wanted to lynch him earlier, I'm so having some doubts.

...or maybe I shouldn't believe him - Robz, are you a plant?

Wait, Robz was something KELP related, right?  Is this a thing?  What do *you* think about Robz?

Now THAT'S an interesting find.

unvote so no hammer. I want to hear from ftl.

Oh boy. I did not get that that's what he meant when he said that. I... did not even make that association.

I Googled Kelptomaniac to see if that was like a band or something (yeah, I get that it's like kleptomaniac, only spelled like kelp). I don't really understand my flavor very well. Spongebob was also my first though.

[Robz888]

first thought*

[shraeye]

Really, Eevee?  I read 12 pages at once, and can't remember a case made against Galzria.  My gut still feels weird with him so i ask someone to recall it if they can (whoever made it I bet still remembers it well).

How did that turn into a scum read on Galz???  I'm not sure if you can characterize my parenthetical about Galz as "excited to go read back"  If this were a serious scumread, you bet your bubblegum I'd have already done the research myself and be ready with a clear post.  I'm just asking for clarification.

The gut/fact argument was not with me, so it possibly was with SFS.

What I'm now curious about is why did you jump at me for asking somebody to recall Galzria's argument?
For other people's benefit, I'm posting my "excited over Galzria being scum" sentences below.  Protip: There is a huge disparity between what they are and what Eevee says they are.

By the way, I vaguely recall somebody making a scum pairing including Galz, who made that and what was the explanation?  Because I'm still super wary of Galz, and I can't tell when he's explaining sometimes whether he's being clear and helping me make informed decisions [town], or being forceful and pushing me to sheep his decisions [scummy]).

You going after [Galzria] like that makes it seem like you don't really consider the actual facts but rather try to look for evidence you'd want to be true

Yeah man, I was reeeeally going after Galzria there.  Frankly I'm surprised he didn't get immediately lynched over that *awesome* case I made.

[shraeye]

At no point do I deny that Galzria has been helpful in sorting things out.  cayvie and ftl also posted nice summaries, and jorbles organized the huge list of everyone's claims.  Props to all of them.

[ftl]

You know... would town robz be vague like this? Like if robz were town, and he had a role with a scummy-sounding name, and sort of confusing mechanics... wouldn't he be clearer?

Dunno. Maybe I do believe him, on second thought it seems more plausible for a few reasons. Not voting for him yet even though I've really wanted to lynch him earlier, I'm so having some doubts.

...or maybe I shouldn't believe him - Robz, are you a plant?

Wait, Robz was something KELP related, right?  Is this a thing?  What do *you* think about Robz?

Now THAT'S an interesting find.

unvote so no hammer. I want to hear from ftl.

I knew he was more like a vegetable than an animal or a mineral, and wanted to set up a situation where Robz would think that lying about it to me could give him towncred. Maybe get him to lie if he's scum. Didn't really work.

[Galzria]

You know... would town robz be vague like this? Like if robz were town, and he had a role with a scummy-sounding name, and sort of confusing mechanics... wouldn't he be clearer?

Dunno. Maybe I do believe him, on second thought it seems more plausible for a few reasons. Not voting for him yet even though I've really wanted to lynch him earlier, I'm so having some doubts.

...or maybe I shouldn't believe him - Robz, are you a plant?

Wait, Robz was something KELP related, right?  Is this a thing?  What do *you* think about Robz?

Now THAT'S an interesting find.

unvote so no hammer. I want to hear from ftl.

I knew he was more like a vegetable than an animal or a mineral, and wanted to set up a situation where Robz would think that lying about it to me could give him towncred. Maybe get him to lie if he's scum. Didn't really work.

Are you M.G. Stanley?

[Galzria]

ReVote: Robz.

[ftl]

Not saying any more than I need to, thus not saying anything about MGS.

BTW, I suppose I should add that I did target robz last night, and Watno hasn't said anything about me being blued... but maybe that's because he targeted jorbles and not robz. I didn't bring it up before because I didn't figure it would change any conclusions because of that. Bringing it up now since I've said I have some robz info anyway.

[Galzria]

Not saying any more than I need to, thus not saying anything about MGS.

BTW, I suppose I should add that I did target robz last night, and Watno hasn't said anything about me being blued... but maybe that's because he targeted jorbles and not robz. I didn't bring it up before because I didn't figure it would change any conclusions because of that. Bringing it up now since I've said I have some robz info anyway.

Damnit. Now I have TPoP running through my head. Not that it's a terrible thing I suppose. Still.

More to the point, it's interesting then that Watno didn't see you, but not damning.

[eHalcyon]

Not saying any more than I need to, thus not saying anything about MGS.

BTW, I suppose I should add that I did target robz last night, and Watno hasn't said anything about me being blued... but maybe that's because he targeted jorbles and not robz. I didn't bring it up before because I didn't figure it would change any conclusions because of that. Bringing it up now since I've said I have some robz info anyway.

Arghhhhh.  I have to get Volt to proof all actions next time. 

[Galzria]

Not saying any more than I need to, thus not saying anything about MGS.

BTW, I suppose I should add that I did target robz last night, and Watno hasn't said anything about me being blued... but maybe that's because he targeted jorbles and not robz. I didn't bring it up before because I didn't figure it would change any conclusions because of that. Bringing it up now since I've said I have some robz info anyway.

Arghhhhh.  I have to get Volt to proof all actions next time. 

So for the record then:

ftl DID get blue paint on him from targeting Robz, and Watno should've detected it.

Watno's failure to report it then is only because his systems malfunctioned and the mod didn't load his data correctly.

Correct?

[Eevee]

Really, Eevee?  I read 12 pages at once, and can't remember a case made against Galzria.  My gut still feels weird with him so i ask someone to recall it if they can (whoever made it I bet still remembers it well).

How did that turn into a scum read on Galz???  I'm not sure if you can characterize my parenthetical about Galz as "excited to go read back"  If this were a serious scumread, you bet your bubblegum I'd have already done the research myself and be ready with a clear post.  I'm just asking for clarification.

The gut/fact argument was not with me, so it possibly was with SFS.

What I'm now curious about is why did you jump at me for asking somebody to recall Galzria's argument?
For other people's benefit, I'm posting my "excited over Galzria being scum" sentences below.  Protip: There is a huge disparity between what they are and what Eevee says they are.

By the way, I vaguely recall somebody making a scum pairing including Galz, who made that and what was the explanation?  Because I'm still super wary of Galz, and I can't tell when he's explaining sometimes whether he's being clear and helping me make informed decisions [town], or being forceful and pushing me to sheep his decisions [scummy]).

You going after [Galzria] like that makes it seem like you don't really consider the actual facts but rather try to look for evidence you'd want to be true

Yeah man, I was reeeeally going after Galzria there.  Frankly I'm surprised he didn't get immediately lynched over that *awesome* case I made.

"Going after Galzria" might be overstating a bit, but it does look like you'd want to suspect him and are looking for reasons for doing so. "super wary" is quite strong considering how much he has helped us today, especially so because you don't seem to oppose Robz lynch and I'm going to eat my hat if Robz and Galzria are in the same scum team and the serial killer slot if any has already been reserved to Frisk.

That actually makes me suspect Frisk more. 15 players so I'd expect more than 1 scum faction. If Frisk is a vig, the serial killer / other mafia team missed their shot last night. Possible of course, but if this happens again night 2 we can pretty much conclude we only have two "killing" roles which would I think makes Frisk being a SK more likely.

[eHalcyon]

Not saying any more than I need to, thus not saying anything about MGS.

BTW, I suppose I should add that I did target robz last night, and Watno hasn't said anything about me being blued... but maybe that's because he targeted jorbles and not robz. I didn't bring it up before because I didn't figure it would change any conclusions because of that. Bringing it up now since I've said I have some robz info anyway.

Arghhhhh.  I have to get Volt to proof all actions next time. 

So for the record then:

ftl DID get blue paint on him from targeting Robz, and Watno should've detected it.

Watno's failure to report it then is only because his systems malfunctioned and the mod didn't load his data correctly.

Correct?

I'll leave that for Watno to say.  I don't want to modconfirm more than I have to.  But again, to discourage taking advantage of mod errors, yes, I made a second error and Watno has received an update.

Apologies to all for the mistakes.  I actually don't think either one makes a huge difference to how this day would have gone... but it may have made some difference.  Sorry.  I will ask Volt to check over action resolutions to prevent this from happening in the future.  It seems I am not thorough enough!

[Robz888]

Not saying any more than I need to, thus not saying anything about MGS.

BTW, I suppose I should add that I did target robz last night, and Watno hasn't said anything about me being blued... but maybe that's because he targeted jorbles and not robz. I didn't bring it up before because I didn't figure it would change any conclusions because of that. Bringing it up now since I've said I have some robz info anyway.

Arghhhhh.  I have to get Volt to proof all actions next time. 

So for the record then:

ftl DID get blue paint on him from targeting Robz, and Watno should've detected it.

Watno's failure to report it then is only because his systems malfunctioned and the mod didn't load his data correctly.

Correct?

I'll leave that for Watno to say.  I don't want to modconfirm more than I have to.  But again, to discourage taking advantage of mod errors, yes, I made a second error and Watno has received an update.

Apologies to all for the mistakes.  I actually don't think either one makes a huge difference to how this day would have gone... but it may have made some difference.  Sorry.  I will ask Volt to check over action resolutions to prevent this from happening in the future.  It seems I am not thorough enough!

Well, good to have that all sorted out, and the case against me explained away by mod errors. So who's up for a Frisk lynch?

[Eevee]

Not saying any more than I need to, thus not saying anything about MGS.

BTW, I suppose I should add that I did target robz last night, and Watno hasn't said anything about me being blued... but maybe that's because he targeted jorbles and not robz. I didn't bring it up before because I didn't figure it would change any conclusions because of that. Bringing it up now since I've said I have some robz info anyway.

Arghhhhh.  I have to get Volt to proof all actions next time. 

So for the record then:

ftl DID get blue paint on him from targeting Robz, and Watno should've detected it.

Watno's failure to report it then is only because his systems malfunctioned and the mod didn't load his data correctly.

Correct?

I'll leave that for Watno to say.  I don't want to modconfirm more than I have to.  But again, to discourage taking advantage of mod errors, yes, I made a second error and Watno has received an update.

Apologies to all for the mistakes.  I actually don't think either one makes a huge difference to how this day would have gone... but it may have made some difference.  Sorry.  I will ask Volt to check over action resolutions to prevent this from happening in the future.  It seems I am not thorough enough!

Well, good to have that all sorted out, and the case against me explained away by mod errors. So who's up for a Frisk lynch?

Uhm how so? I don't see the case against you explained at all.

[Robz888]

Not saying any more than I need to, thus not saying anything about MGS.

BTW, I suppose I should add that I did target robz last night, and Watno hasn't said anything about me being blued... but maybe that's because he targeted jorbles and not robz. I didn't bring it up before because I didn't figure it would change any conclusions because of that. Bringing it up now since I've said I have some robz info anyway.

Arghhhhh.  I have to get Volt to proof all actions next time. 

So for the record then:

ftl DID get blue paint on him from targeting Robz, and Watno should've detected it.

Watno's failure to report it then is only because his systems malfunctioned and the mod didn't load his data correctly.

Correct?

I'll leave that for Watno to say.  I don't want to modconfirm more than I have to.  But again, to discourage taking advantage of mod errors, yes, I made a second error and Watno has received an update.

Apologies to all for the mistakes.  I actually don't think either one makes a huge difference to how this day would have gone... but it may have made some difference.  Sorry.  I will ask Volt to check over action resolutions to prevent this from happening in the future.  It seems I am not thorough enough!

Well, good to have that all sorted out, and the case against me explained away by mod errors. So who's up for a Frisk lynch?

Uhm how so? I don't see the case against you explained at all.

Obvscum.

[Galzria]

Not saying any more than I need to, thus not saying anything about MGS.

BTW, I suppose I should add that I did target robz last night, and Watno hasn't said anything about me being blued... but maybe that's because he targeted jorbles and not robz. I didn't bring it up before because I didn't figure it would change any conclusions because of that. Bringing it up now since I've said I have some robz info anyway.

Arghhhhh.  I have to get Volt to proof all actions next time. 

So for the record then:

ftl DID get blue paint on him from targeting Robz, and Watno should've detected it.

Watno's failure to report it then is only because his systems malfunctioned and the mod didn't load his data correctly.

Correct?

I'll leave that for Watno to say.  I don't want to modconfirm more than I have to.  But again, to discourage taking advantage of mod errors, yes, I made a second error and Watno has received an update.

Apologies to all for the mistakes.  I actually don't think either one makes a huge difference to how this day would have gone... but it may have made some difference.  Sorry.  I will ask Volt to check over action resolutions to prevent this from happening in the future.  It seems I am not thorough enough!

Well, good to have that all sorted out, and the case against me explained away by mod errors. So who's up for a Frisk lynch?

Uhm how so? I don't see the case against you explained at all.

It's not. I believe Robz misread the missed information - which is that ftl got blue on him because he targeted Robz, who was covered in paint. Obviously Watno hadn't been told of this, do didn't know to report that ftl targeted Robz. But ftl has said as much now, and I expect Watno will confirm it when he checks his PM's. That's all that changed. Essentially - nothing.

[Watno]

Just quickly phone-posting before I leave for university:
Ftl indeed got cyan traces on him.

[Robz888]

Not saying any more than I need to, thus not saying anything about MGS.

BTW, I suppose I should add that I did target robz last night, and Watno hasn't said anything about me being blued... but maybe that's because he targeted jorbles and not robz. I didn't bring it up before because I didn't figure it would change any conclusions because of that. Bringing it up now since I've said I have some robz info anyway.

Arghhhhh.  I have to get Volt to proof all actions next time. 

So for the record then:

ftl DID get blue paint on him from targeting Robz, and Watno should've detected it.

Watno's failure to report it then is only because his systems malfunctioned and the mod didn't load his data correctly.

Correct?

I'll leave that for Watno to say.  I don't want to modconfirm more than I have to.  But again, to discourage taking advantage of mod errors, yes, I made a second error and Watno has received an update.

Apologies to all for the mistakes.  I actually don't think either one makes a huge difference to how this day would have gone... but it may have made some difference.  Sorry.  I will ask Volt to check over action resolutions to prevent this from happening in the future.  It seems I am not thorough enough!

Well, good to have that all sorted out, and the case against me explained away by mod errors. So who's up for a Frisk lynch?

Uhm how so? I don't see the case against you explained at all.

It's not. I believe Robz misread the missed information - which is that ftl got blue on him because he targeted Robz, who was covered in paint. Obviously Watno hadn't been told of this, do didn't know to report that ftl targeted Robz. But ftl has said as much now, and I expect Watno will confirm it when he checks his PM's. That's all that changed. Essentially - nothing.

I didn't misread, I was just kidding about this clearing me.

[Voltgloss]

If, going forward, everyone could please send their night action PMs to both me and eHalc, that will greatly facilitate the double-check process.  Thanks.

[Dsell]

I'm now in favor of having Frisk not kill.

Watno looks pretty bad if Robz flips scum, as has always been the case. The lists and "if, then" posts made today seemed correct and they're really helpful. But aside from the ftl thing (which doesn't really change much), there's not much new info today and I'm pretty much where I was at yesterday.

I believe there might still be a couple people who've hardly weighed in today though? Maybe? Is theorel in this game? It's really late.

[ashersky]

I'm still on the Robz wagon, which I will take credit for starting, even if it was pages ago, but wanted to get some convo going on Eevee's odd question/half-claim.

He has a targeted night action, which he says is town, but could backfire if he targets something with mail?

Sounds kind of odd, and kind of role-fishy, right?

Eevee, can you say who you targeted last night?  Anything to sort of clear yourself?  I feel like we've been giving Eevee a pass...

[cayvie]

Alright, I've reread enough times to be okay with a Robz lynch today.

Maybe "not really trying" is how he's playing scum this time, because that's kinda the read I've gotten.

What are we waiting for? Lekkit?

I don't understand what's particularly scummy about what Eevee's said, ashersky. Could you elaborate?

[ashersky]

Alright, I've reread enough times to be okay with a Robz lynch today.

Maybe "not really trying" is how he's playing scum this time, because that's kinda the read I've gotten.

What are we waiting for? Lekkit?

I don't understand what's particularly scummy about what Eevee's said, ashersky. Could you elaborate?

Didn't say scummy so much as odd.  I don't know, just trying to figure out what sort of town night action results in killing people other than vig, which frisk has already claimed me Eevee hasn't countered...

[Eevee]

Lol Dsell, theorel isn't in this game. Lekkit has been maybe the most notably quiet.

I'm still on the Robz wagon, which I will take credit for starting, even if it was pages ago, but wanted to get some convo going on Eevee's odd question/half-claim.

He has a targeted night action, which he says is town, but could backfire if he targets something with mail?

Sounds kind of odd, and kind of role-fishy, right?

Eevee, can you say who you targeted last night?  Anything to sort of clear yourself?  I feel like we've been giving Eevee a pass...

Wug? HOW? How is it rolefishy? Your post seems a LOT more rolefishy than mine tbh.. I asked if someone's role name worked in the mail delivering industry. I even said "it's fine if you don't want to disclose it for whatever reason, just don't, but then we just might both die because of it". If this was a scummy thing, why on earth would I tell everyone about it? It's not like I got caught doing anything, I voluntarily told you about it. To clarify: it's sort of a "punishment" and has nothing to do with my actual role. I can't target it all, my otherwise pacifistic character just simply commits murder-suicide if it happens to target that one particular player. Which sort of makes me not want to use my night action at all because 1/14 chance of two players (myself a townie and then the other guy of unknown alignment) dying is not very desirable.

[Eevee]

Townie-seeming odd is a terrible reason for starting to press someone to tell more about their role.

[Eevee]

And idk what we are waiting for, Lekkit to have more time to post and us to reach a consensus on the Frisk issue. Consensus seems to be not shooting, do you copy Frisk?

It's not like we are in a particular hurry, 10 days until deadline as shraeye pointed out.

[ashersky]

Townie-seeming odd is a terrible reason for starting to press someone to tell more about their role.

Okay, fair enough.  Just, stuck out, I guess.  Seemed like I noticed more than others, is all.


PPE: Also not clear what we're waiting on.  I weighed in on Frisk shooting, but seems I'm in the minority.  No biggie.  If he doesn't shoot, we'll have just as much to study, I suppose.

[cayvie]

I don't think Eevee kills people unless they're mail carriers.

I'm not a mail carrier. Nor did I target Galzria, btw.

[Lekkit]

Im not sure about Robz being scum. But Ive gotten the feeling that Robz is using this game as an experiment on how to play rather than play seriously, which I think is pretty bad play for town, and I would definately not be sad if we lynched him.

I havent followed the arguments really closely, but I actually think CF should fire. I look at it like this. Thee are Three options;
1 Hes a vig. Vig firing is pretty pro town, its a town pr. If he is he should fire.
2 Hes a SK. He wants to get rid of mafia just as much as town. So basically its the same as 1 but with a bit more wine taste.
3 Hes mafia. Someone else will perform the kill.

Either way in the case of 1 or 2 mafia would want to kilm him. Either with a NK or by leaving him alive with a glass pf wine to follow. In the case of 3 he will probably be left alive by the mafia, but could possibly be killes by a vig or SK. Either qay, I don't think CF will live tjrough the day tomorroe wothout town protwction. So in my eyes he's like a 1shot extra lynch.

And. If we get CF to kill, the glove thing would be easier to prove. I'm pretty sure either Eevee or Galz knows more about the if Robz flip X kill Z stuff. And if I wont have time to post more before Robz is hammeeed, I wanted my thoughts out here.

[Captain_Frisk]

Wow... Ftl with paint.  He did drop the plant hint early though, so I guess I believe it, vs him being the source of the ice cream kill.

Right now I feel that town consensus is it kill, so I won't, but I agree with lekkit - at least as it pertains to use of my power.  Reasons 2 and 3 don't apply, and given that I'm likely to die without protection that I done expect to receive, then we are just flushing town power.

I'm ok with the robz lynch, and will hammer if we think we are done talking.  We have time, but this is role madness, and I get the feeling everyone wants to play with them again.

[Eevee]

@Lekkit
It's practically impossible for Frisk to be mafia. If he is, there'd need to be a serial killer who drops ice cream cones on people somewhere (in the neighborhood). I think strangling/strongman attributes are almost always vigs or serial killers.

@Frisk and Lekkit
Wait whaaat? I think the exact opposite - Frisk is the nut least likely of us to die at night. He is SO suspected, I recall several people (Dsell and the now-so-scummy Robz at least) saying "he is basically obvscum now", I do not think mafia wants to kill him. Especially if we wind up instructing him to noshoot, HE IS BASICALLY A VANILLA TOWNIE EVERYONE SUSPECTS THE HELL OUT OF, WHY WOULD MAFIA SHOOT HIM? Frisk will surely be with us tomorrow, but luckily if he is a serial killer he has something like 2% to win this game and even that 2% requires cooperating with the town as if he really was a vig so I absolutely think he is a positive utility to us either way.

I know theorel did some analysis on the utility of vigs, but I've always found them sort.. meh. I'm probably biased because yuma shot me in MVIII, idk, but I just feel like vigs a) make the game shorter and less fun (more chances to get nightkilled which sucks) and also b) have been exclusively shooting townies in our games, so don't really feel bad at all if we "flush our vigs power town the toilet". In fact, I feel the strongest use for a vig is the end game, where town can manipulate lylo and mylo situations and also kill 2 confirmed scum a day if we happen to find them that fast via massclaiming or some other measures. So, I don't think Frisk will be dying anytime soon, and I think that bodes rather well for us because it means we can save his shots to possible endgame scenarios where we need them.
We might even run to a situation where we want Frisk to shoot someone at night and then be the heroic lynch target the following day. That would be fun.

[Lekkit]

@Eeve: what I mwnat was that CF will either be killed tonight or hes probably going to get lynched tomorrow.

[Eevee]

@Eeve: what I mwnat was that CF will either be killed tonight or hes probably going to get lynched tomorrow.

Uh okay. That makes more sense. I disagree though, obviously depends on stuff but generally I think trying to lynch mafia is more advantageous to us, because as I explained, he is our little bitch either way, he can't afford to harm us and we can easily deal with him later if need be because he is the only member of his faction or a town vig. It's either way better to have him working for us while we hunt for mafia than lynch him, miss a chance at hitting mafia and potentially even kill off our vig.

[Captain_Frisk]

Way to making me want to work for you fuzzy

[Eevee]

Way to making me want to work for you fuzzy

Admitting to being a serial killer then?

[Captain_Frisk]

Not at all.  Just don't appreciate being called a little bitch

[Lekkit]

CF: Do you think a SK benefits town early in the game?

[Captain_Frisk]

Unclear.  The jk9++ setup indicates that it weakens mafia.

In m4 I played as I thought town would, at least for the first night.

Here, I thought that insomniac might be sk, or maybe "mafia".  The way he said "I'm not what you think I am" was just strange phrasing. Why not just say I'm town?

I suppose I can see eevees point that keeping me alive is good wifom, but I look at my ability as stronger than lynch because it isn't invfluenced by scum voting.  It is 100pct town directed.

That said, I'd rather live and be a town vote than be a mislynched tomorrow.

[Eevee]

Not at all.  Just don't appreciate being called a little bitch

I mean sorry if you took offense, it was 100% meant to be in good fun.

SK weakening mafia is different than it helping town though. When there is only town and mafia, the pie of winning percentages is divided into two pieces (say 50%-50%). Add in a serial killer who wins 15% of the time, it can now be something like 45-40-15, so even though mafia got weaker so did town. I would assume adding more factions almost always makes things harder for any individual faction.

[shraeye]

Not at all.  Just don't appreciate being called a little bitch

I mean sorry if you took offense, it was 100% meant to be in good fun.

SK weakening mafia is different than it helping town though. When there is only town and mafia, the pie of winning percentages is divided into two pieces (say 50%-50%). Add in a serial killer who wins 15% of the time, it can now be something like 45-40-15, so even though mafia got weaker so did town. I would assume adding more factions almost always makes things harder for any individual faction.

I agree, it seems like people have been saying SK weakens mafia, therefore is better for town.  I'm not sure if eevee's numbers are actual or hypothetical, but it was clear to me that weakening mafia, and strengthening town are not the same.  I would think an SK weakens every other faction (maybe to different degrees though).

[shraeye]

We might even run to a situation where we want Frisk to shoot someone at night and then be the heroic lynch target the following day. That would be fun.

What's a heroic lynch?  In what situation would a 'heroic lynch' be good for town?

[Eevee]

We might even run to a situation where we want Frisk to shoot someone at night and then be the heroic lynch target the following day. That would be fun.

What's a heroic lynch?  In what situation would a 'heroic lynch' be good for town?

We first direct his kill, he kills (the last) mafia and then we lynch him the following day, he flips SK and we win. Or he flips town and we can PoE to the last mafia, something to that effect anyways.

The numbers in my post were hypothetical.

[shraeye]

I'm still on the Robz wagon, which I will take credit for starting, even if it was pages ago, but wanted to get some convo going on Eevee's odd question/half-claim.

He has a targeted night action, which he says is town, but could backfire if he targets something with mail?

Sounds kind of odd, and kind of role-fishy, right?

Eevee, can you say who you targeted last night?  Anything to sort of clear yourself?  I feel like we've been giving Eevee a pass...

Wug? HOW? How is it rolefishy? Your post seems a LOT more rolefishy than mine tbh.. I asked if someone's role name worked in the mail delivering industry. I even said "it's fine if you don't want to disclose it for whatever reason, just don't, but then we just might both die because of it". If this was a scummy thing, why on earth would I tell everyone about it? It's not like I got caught doing anything, I voluntarily told you about it. To clarify: it's sort of a "punishment" and has nothing to do with my actual role. I can't target it all, my otherwise pacifistic character just simply commits murder-suicide if it happens to target that one particular player. Which sort of makes me not want to use my night action at all because 1/14 chance of two players (myself a townie and then the other guy of unknown alignment) dying is not very desirable.

Eevee's right here, ashersky.  You are being much more rolefishy than Eevee ever was.  He's just warning us that he'll go postal if he encounters a postal worker unexpectedly (hah, I see what eHalc did there!).  I'm no postal worker, but if I were, I think i'd be willing to tell eevee.  It seems that the only scenario where I'd be afraid to do that is if I had a scum read on Eevee, and I was worried he's lying about that and wants to know about postal workers for some hidden reason.  I may be wary about telling him if I had a null-read, but I think I'd err on the side of self-preservation and still confess.

So Eevee, it seems that you may be best off targeting either somebody who has a town read on you, or somebody who has explicitly said they aren't postal workers.  (which makes lying about it much more dangerous).

[shraeye]

We might even run to a situation where we want Frisk to shoot someone at night and then be the heroic lynch target the following day. That would be fun.

What's a heroic lynch?  In what situation would a 'heroic lynch' be good for town?

We first direct his kill, he kills (the last) mafia and then we lynch him the following day, he flips SK and we win. Or he flips town and we can PoE to the last mafia, something to that effect anyways.

The numbers in my post were hypothetical.

What is PoE?

[Eevee]

We might even run to a situation where we want Frisk to shoot someone at night and then be the heroic lynch target the following day. That would be fun.

What's a heroic lynch?  In what situation would a 'heroic lynch' be good for town?

We first direct his kill, he kills (the last) mafia and then we lynch him the following day, he flips SK and we win. Or he flips town and we can PoE to the last mafia, something to that effect anyways.

The numbers in my post were hypothetical.

What is PoE?

Process of Elimination.

[shraeye]

Really, Eevee?  I read 12 pages at once, and can't remember a case made against Galzria.  My gut still feels weird with him so i ask someone to recall it if they can (whoever made it I bet still remembers it well).

How did that turn into a scum read on Galz???  I'm not sure if you can characterize my parenthetical about Galz as "excited to go read back"  If this were a serious scumread, you bet your bubblegum I'd have already done the research myself and be ready with a clear post.  I'm just asking for clarification.

The gut/fact argument was not with me, so it possibly was with SFS.

What I'm now curious about is why did you jump at me for asking somebody to recall Galzria's argument?
For other people's benefit, I'm posting my "excited over Galzria being scum" sentences below.  Protip: There is a huge disparity between what they are and what Eevee says they are.

By the way, I vaguely recall somebody making a scum pairing including Galz, who made that and what was the explanation?  Because I'm still super wary of Galz, and I can't tell when he's explaining sometimes whether he's being clear and helping me make informed decisions [town], or being forceful and pushing me to sheep his decisions [scummy]).

You going after [Galzria] like that makes it seem like you don't really consider the actual facts but rather try to look for evidence you'd want to be true

Yeah man, I was reeeeally going after Galzria there.  Frankly I'm surprised he didn't get immediately lynched over that *awesome* case I made.

"Going after Galzria" might be overstating a bit, but it does look like you'd want to suspect him and are looking for reasons for doing so. "super wary" is quite strong considering how much he has helped us today, especially so because you don't seem to oppose Robz lynch and I'm going to eat my hat if Robz and Galzria are in the same scum team and the serial killer slot if any has already been reserved to Frisk.

You absolutely were overstating it.  My question, and the one you just ducked, is why?  Why did such a small statement make you jump out at me for 'attacking' Galzria.  It just seems like you were being hypersensitive of any suspicion at Galzria.

I'm not 100% sold on a Robz-lynch, maybe 76% sold right now; I want to have more time to sort today out in my mind before I feel good being fully behind a Robz lynch.  But regardless, I don't see why my wariness regarding Galzria is less justified because of support of a Robz lynch. 

'super wary' is quite strong considering how much he has helped us today, especially so because you don't seem to oppose Robz lynch

This sentence just makes no sense to me.  Are you saying that because Galz has helped us and implicated Robz, that there's no way he's scum??  It seems to me that there's a lot of suspicion around Robz, about his attitude yesterday and his actions today.  If Galz were scum, him organizing today and pushing a Robz lynch are both perfectly reasonable actions. (especially if people like you are willing to push the idea that this makes him obvtown).

[Captain_Frisk]

I did ask Joth a question regarding his ability & galz a few pages back.  Is this what you were thinking of Shraeye?  Hardly a case, just a question as to whether or not his vanilla scoop could have caused a flavor override if Galz was a ninja killer.

Galz reads pro town to me today, but Galz seemed pretty pro town to me in BMMMMMMMMM1.

[shraeye]

I did ask Joth a question regarding his ability & galz a few pages back.  Is this what you were thinking of Shraeye?  Hardly a case, just a question as to whether or not his vanilla scoop could have caused a flavor override if Galz was a ninja killer.

Galz reads pro town to me today, but Galz seemed pretty pro town to me in BMMMMMMMMM1.

Naw, i think that it was slightly more than a questioning of galz's ability.  Yeah, Galz has a habit of always reading town to people, especially if you use activity and apparent helpfulness as your only factors on a town-read.  Galz's style is to always be helpful and thorough (at least after day 1).

I was searching idly for what I recalled reading and couldn't find it.  Maybe I mixed Galz up with a different name.  Man, now I'm feeling slightly crazy.  As I recall it was a theory that was different than the watno covering for jorbles/watno covering for robz/frisk is SK maybe vig story that many people were making.  In my mind, I was thinking "now there's an interesting different possibility that I'll look into later," so now I'm really frustrated that I misrecalled it and can't remember any other details.  Regardless, my question to eevee stands.

[Captain_Frisk]

Bump?  Not enough Mafia going on.  Should I just hammer and put all 3 games into night?  I'm not sure I've ever hammered before.

[jotheonah]

@Lekkit
It's practically impossible for Frisk to be mafia. If he is, there'd need to be a serial killer who drops ice cream cones on people somewhere (in the neighborhood). I think strangling/strongman attributes are almost always vigs or serial killers.

This is actually not crazy. In RMM1, I was a serial killer who borrowed power roles from the dead. That's not too different from a serial killer who borrows flavor roles from the living.  It possible that vig + SK targeted Insomniac and a mafia kill was roleblocked (which would point to Dsell) or doctored (which tells us nothing ATM).

We actually should be considering these edge cases, or at least keeping them in the realm of possibility.

[jotheonah]

Frisk, I do want people to weigh in on this. What if there was a third kill that didn't go through? Does that substantially change our conclusions/course of action? A mimic SK actually seems much more eHalc's style than a mimic mafia does.

[Captain_Frisk]

Frisk, I do want people to weigh in on this. What if there was a third kill that didn't go through? Does that substantially change our conclusions/course of action? A mimic SK actually seems much more eHalc's style than a mimic mafia does.

I absolutely agree that there was a possible 3rd (or more) kill.  Obviously - from my perspective I know that my shot on Insomniac was town, but even if you believe that I'm "mafia" or SK, only 2 night kills is light for a game of this size:

M4: Town Vig, Serial Killer, Mafia Faction
M6: 2 Scum factions + WOSV.  (Was there a SK in this game too?)
M9: 2 scum factions + serial killer.  Can't remember if there was a vig.

[shraeye]

@Lekkit
It's practically impossible for Frisk to be mafia. If he is, there'd need to be a serial killer who drops ice cream cones on people somewhere (in the neighborhood). I think strangling/strongman attributes are almost always vigs or serial killers.

This is actually not crazy. In RMM1, I was a serial killer who borrowed power roles from the dead. That's not too different from a serial killer who borrows flavor roles from the living.  It possible that vig + SK targeted Insomniac and a mafia kill was roleblocked (which would point to Dsell) or doctored (which tells us nothing ATM).

We actually should be considering these edge cases, or at least keeping them in the realm of possibility.

This.  Something about the kills hasn't been adding up.  It's crazy that two kills hit the same person, and even weirder that there was no 3rd attempt.  I'm back and forth in my mind on Frisk, earlier I found myself implicitly believing his claim, and wondering why there wasn't a second death, or more people that watno tracked in case 3 kill attempts all miraculously hit Insom.  Then when I was organizing my thoughts from the huge 12 page catchup for day 2, I decided that Frisk must have been SK for sure. 

But now I'm wondering why nobody has talked at all about other blocked/saved kill possibilities.  It makes me think that there most definitely was a missing NK and that scum are staying tight-lipped and loving that Vig-Frisk jumped in to take the fall for the second faction. 

Regardless of your take on Frisk, we should think about missing NKs.  If Frisk is Vig, there most definitely was a blocked NK.  If Frisk is SK than maybe scum+Frisk were the only shots and they both managed to hit Insom, but there could still probably be another faction (or an actual-vig as well) like in MIX.  If Frisk is Mafia, then we are probably also missing a kill; possibly SK+scumFrisk hit Insom, with SK stealing flavor from living players as joth implies (or actually being joth...?).  In a setup this size, I would expect at least one Vig, and either 2 or 3 scumfactions.  If there is no vig, then most definitely I think there are 3 scumfactions

Missing kill really points to DSell right now, as we know he was blocked (assuming we believe Jorbles' claim, and I do believe that he is a role-blocker at least).  But that's the only block that we know about; obviously there could be others.  So I don't really feel like crucifying DSell right now for being the only person we know was blocked, but still that's a pretty serious bit of suspicion.

[Eevee]

@shraeye

I don't know if you missed this in your 12 page catchup, but no one was suspecting Robz at all until Galzria came up with the "Robz-theory", that in my and apparently most everyone else's mind too accounts for all the night actions in the simplest and most believable way. THERE WAS NO SIGN OF ROBZ BEING SUSPECTED UP UNTIL THAT POINT. What's more, at first people didn't really understand the case, Galzria spent several posts explaining to me why it all makes sense (because I was being slow). I can't fathom him bussing Robz LIKE THAT. And then, unless Joth's 3rd kill that got blocked theory is true (and it could be, especially if Frisk is town), the scum faction we are suspecting Robz of being is mafia. HOW COULD GALZRIA BE MAFIA? Sure, if we have multiple scum teams or if Robz is town that's possible, but for multiple scum teams we'd need the missing kill. And really, THERE IS NO CASE AGAINST GALZRIA. All he has done this far is help us build a case I and others find very compelling. If Robz flips town (I obv dont expect this and neither should you with your 77% figure), Galzria still has participated in the discussion both heavily and helpfully, and I think the other narratives we've built are good too, just less likely. I know he fooled me super bad in Ozles Murder Mystery, but this is different because my town read isn't based on gut but on the fact he has helped in building believable narratives that explain all the night actions. I was super lost, some people still seem super lost, I would say Galzria has easily been the most helpful townie today. And I just can't believe all the cases he's made are against townies. And Frisk is already the serial killer if there is one, so he'd need to have team mates. And sure yeah maybe he could be scum with someone else, that I can believe, but with Robz, not in a million years!

The reason I'm probably overreacting to your seemingly harmless comment about Galzria is that I don't think the suspicion is at all warranted and quite frankly it just seems like a distraction. Galzria can't be scum with Robz so unless Robz is a serial killer somehow (lol), Galzria can't be scum. I guess that's where we disagree, and I think that's because you vastly underestimate the part Galzria played in catching Robz (assuming he's scum). Now if Robz flips town, then sure Galzria suspicion is back on the table, but he still has been so much more helpful than anyone else, he wouldn't really be the first or second or fifth place I'd look. I still don't like how Lekkit is skating by contributing that little and not getting suspected for it, but I guess he always plays like that. I don't think it makes any sense whatsoever to suspect Galzria, who is contributing more than ~anyone while some people stay in the shadows. We don't need to have the old lurker debate again and I don't think anyone is lurking in a harmful way yet, but with more people like Galzria this would go even better.

[Robz888]

Eevee, founding member of the Galzria Worship Society.

[Eevee]

I think we'll probably get a pretty good picture of the amount of scum factions we are facing after night 2. It's unlikely but possible that vig+mafia targeted Insomniac and a SK got blocked (or something), but we are going to have so much more information on this tomorrow and it's not like we need to know it now. I guess I'm fine with a hammer already, not much posting today and we have a plan ready for Frisk. Trying to figure out the setup further is just going to be infinitely easier after we see another set of night actions.

Robz, the finding member of the Making Snarky Remarks At Eevee's Posts Society. Oh wait that was Insomniac. Or Frisk. Nobody likes me, no wonder I always die early.

[jotheonah]

Frisk, what have you decided to do at night, for the record? Once you've told us, you have my blessing to hammer (though I speak only for myself).

[Eevee]

Robz, I think the way you are handling this suspicion is making you look even worse. You are not trying to offer alternatives or share your reads (you did say you don't find the people driving your lynch scummy 20 pages back, but after that you've attacked me like 5 times so that's pretty moot now), you are just accusing people left and right even though you yourself said "I'd be voting for myself too". Seems like you have given up with the game and are just trolling now. Town Robz would still have a motivation to help town, this Robz only seems to be interested in throwing controversial oneliners around.

[Captain_Frisk]

Frisk, what have you decided to do at night, for the record? Once you've told us, you have my blessing to hammer (though I speak only for myself).

The consensus seems to be that I should not strangle, so I am not currently planning on doing so - barring some crazy end of day reveal / twilight scumslip.

[Galzria]

This is rather uncomfortable.

Look, suspicion on me, or anyone else, is perfectly warranted given what information we have. Nobody but me has seen my PM, so nobody but me knows for a fact what my alignment is. I certainly then can not condemn anybody for questioning it.

From any given town players' perspective, I very well could be scum leading the town along. So bring wary is reasonable. Shraeye's point (though he was long-winded with it, which I think, Eevee, is why you reacted so strongly) is that he thought he saw someone put forth the basis for a narrative that could explain actions through a spectrum of "Galz is scum". He's not throwing out baseless accusations, and for that I'm appreciative. If sometime wants to build a case on me, or feels it's warranted, then all I ask is for the narrative. Give me the story with the If's and Then's. At that point, feel free to let others judge it against other outlying theories. Seeing as there are only a handful of players (scum) who know what actually happened, it's to the benefit of town to not overlook possibilities.

Now, I would be very skeptical that someone COULD build a stronger narrative against me than other narratives that exist, but only because -I- know that I'm town. But I don't, and wouldn't, discourage people from doing so, especially if it gets them active and really parsing the facts.

@Shraeye, I believe if you go back and read Jorbles, he posited that Joth/Galz could be scum, where Joth came out today after (originally) Jorbles, and then Robz. He has since retracted the likelihood of that given all the facts, but if you wish to expand, I think that's where you would start.

[Eevee]

That's obviously true. I mostly take issue with suspecting both you and Robz, because it just makes no sense to me. Got carried away, apologies.

[Captain_Frisk]

Anyone else around?

[Captain_Frisk]

eHalc - I see you around, any chance of an up to date vote count?  I think it would be the following:

Vote Count 2.4

Captain_Frisk (1): Watno
Jorbles (1): cayvie
Robz888 (6): ashersky, Dsell, Eevee, jotheonah, Jorbles, Galzria
Watno (1): Robz888

Not voting (5): Captain_Frisk, ftl, Lekkit, shraeye

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Lynch deadline: Monday, October 22, 7:00pm MDT

[Galzria]

Anyone else around?

I'm always around. You know me.

[Captain_Frisk]

Anyone else around?

I'm always around. You know me.

I want to hammer, but I feel nervous!

[Captain_Frisk]

The who's online says that Archetype is posting here!  Maybe he's snagging a quote for a spec thread?

[Galzria]

Anyone else around?

I'm always around. You know me.

I want to hammer, but I feel nervous!

I would hammer if I wasn't voting, but you could always set a time limit on the hammer if you're wary. "I'll hammer at X if nothing has changed".

[Galzria]

The who's online says that Archetype is posting here!  Maybe he's snagging a quote for a spec thread?

Haha, awesome. I wonder who's watching this game.

[Eevee]

The who's online says that Archetype is posting here!  Maybe he's snagging a quote for a spec thread?

Haha, awesome. I wonder who's watching this game.

Sup spectators!

[Captain_Frisk]

For a second I thought he was going to come back to life!

Vote: RobZ

Let's see it eHalc!

[eHalcyon]

On the phone. Won't actually be around for a while...

[Captain_Frisk]

All right stop - Twilight Time?

[Eevee]

For a second I thought he was going to come back to life!

Vote: RobZ

Let's see it eHalc!

Just to clarify, you are not shooting tonight whatever Robz flips?

@eHalc

We are allowed to twilight though?

[eHalcyon]

Let extended twilight commence! Unless Volt wants to lock it. :-P

[Captain_Frisk]

I'm open to debate - especially if we have a while.  I could be convinced to strangle DSell.

[Captain_Frisk]

But default is no.

[Eevee]

I'm open to debate - especially if we have a while.  I could be convinced to strangle DSell.

Because of the roleblocking? I think it's too late to make a decision like that.

[Galzria]

Now we wait for Robz to come in and say "I was town fools!"

I *really* hope he's scum. It's always a big WIFOM game with him, since he's always playing for his -next- scum game. So I can't tell if he's scum here, or playing to be scum later. Gut reads don't work. I've got to rely on (and hope) the facts. Ugh. I hate facts.

[Eevee]

Now we wait for Robz to come in and say "I was town fools!"

I *really* hope he's scum. It's always a big WIFOM game with him, since he's always playing for his -next- scum game. So I can't tell if he's scum here, or playing to be scum later. Gut reads don't work. I've got to rely on (and hope) the facts. Ugh. I hate facts.

How can you hate being wrong AND hate facts? Shraeye level inconsistency!

I think Robz is going to claim town until the flip either way to deprive us of useful discussion time. But yeah, if Robz too is town, the newfound scumhunting confidence I found from mafia X and XII will most definitely be gone again..

[Captain_Frisk]

Is it possible that we haven't actually hammered?

[Eevee]

Is it possible that we haven't actually hammered?

Role madness, definitely possible. Don't think it's very likely, I'd guess eHalc would have informed us of that.

[Galzria]

Now we wait for Robz to come in and say "I was town fools!"

I *really* hope he's scum. It's always a big WIFOM game with him, since he's always playing for his -next- scum game. So I can't tell if he's scum here, or playing to be scum later. Gut reads don't work. I've got to rely on (and hope) the facts. Ugh. I hate facts.

How can you hate being wrong AND hate facts? Shraeye level inconsistency!

I think Robz is going to claim town until the flip either way to deprive us of useful discussion time. But yeah, if Robz too is town, the newfound scumhunting confidence I found from mafia X and XII will most definitely be gone again..

This is how I feel.

I DO hate being wrong. But it's not like Robz is foolproof scum. I just *really* think he is. But if I'm wrong, I'll be sitting there at night damning the facts.

By the way, since nobody took responsibility for being the first person to target me last night, I'm going to do something risky tonight out of simple curiosity. I may end up dead for it, but I might not. I honestly don't know! Exciting!

[Galzria]

Is it possible that we haven't actually hammered?

Role madness, definitely possible. Don't think it's very likely, I'd guess eHalc would have informed us of that.

eHal said we are in twilight and that Volt could lock the thread. So I think the hammer has fallen.

[Robz888]

No one is going to believe me after what happened in MIX, but I am indeed town.

[Captain_Frisk]

Now we wait for Robz to come in and say "I was town fools!"

I *really* hope he's scum. It's always a big WIFOM game with him, since he's always playing for his -next- scum game. So I can't tell if he's scum here, or playing to be scum later. Gut reads don't work. I've got to rely on (and hope) the facts. Ugh. I hate facts.

How can you hate being wrong AND hate facts? Shraeye level inconsistency!

I think Robz is going to claim town until the flip either way to deprive us of useful discussion time. But yeah, if Robz too is town, the newfound scumhunting confidence I found from mafia X and XII will most definitely be gone again..

This is how I feel.

I DO hate being wrong. But it's not like Robz is foolproof scum. I just *really* think he is. But if I'm wrong, I'll be sitting there at night damning the facts.

By the way, since nobody took responsibility for being the first person to target me last night, I'm going to do something risky tonight out of simple curiosity. I may end up dead for it, but I might not. I honestly don't know! Exciting!

Didn't you say earlier that you had no role?

[Eevee]

No one is going to believe me after what happened in MIX, but I am indeed town.

I think you would say this either way, but okay.  Sorry if that's the case! Any final words / reads you'd want to leave us?

[Robz888]

I agree that Watno is very likely scum, Frisk feels like definite scum to me but probably SK... and then either Joth or Jorbles. Could have two teams in there, perhaps?

The problem is that this gives a huge pass to everyone else. Remember this is Role Madness, and the night actions may influence each other in ways that make no sense unless you're inside eHalc's brain. That's what I think happened with my "steal" not doing anything but getting paint all over me. Or perhaps Watno is just lying about what the paint does entirely.

So, I would still kill one of these people if I were you guys, but don't forget about everybody else. Just because the reasons to lynch me were good doesn't mean everybody participating in my lynch is town.

[Captain_Frisk]

And what does it prove?  We wait for scum to kill me and prove my claim?  Gives town more time to take night actions?

What it doesn't do, is take unnecessary shots, that may or may not be helpful to the town, thus allowing a SK CF easier path to victory

What it doesn't do, is allow for bussing or redirecting. If you say "I'll kill X", and Y turns up strangled, you'll swear up and down that you targeted X - and we won't know if you're lying or not.

What it DOES, is extend the game by reducing deaths - and it's been shown in past games that the more game days there are, the better town seems to do, because it creates more information to work with. This is especially true in Role-Madness games.

Sigh... a role madness game in which I can't use my role

I agree though - for all of the reasons other than the SK one - since I am not SK.... I can just feel my impending doom coming and I don't like it.

Better than a Role-Madness game where you've essentially been assigned "no-role", which is the case for me. i don't blame eHal - it wasn't intentional - but it's how it worked out.

Relevant quote.

[jotheonah]

Shame on you for not playing like town, if you really are, Robz. Town should fight tooth and nail against their lynch and also try to be helpful.

[Voltgloss]

I'm unfortunately not in a position right now to verify the votecount/hammer, but I understand eHalc should be able to do so a little later this afternoon.  Apologies all.

[ftl]

Sadface, if Robz's town. Can't say I'll believe him for real until the flip.

If Robz's town, we either have a ninja scum or watno's scum, IMO.

[Captain_Frisk]

Unvote For science.

[Robz888]

Shame on you for not playing like town, if you really are, Robz. Town should fight tooth and nail against their lynch and also try to be helpful.

Oh how dare you, don't even. I was perfectly helpful, I just wasn't believed. This is "blame the victim" mentality.

[jotheonah]

Galz, you say you might end up killing yourself tonight. Want to tell us anything else in case you do? Or explain how that's a thing?

(not fishing, feel free to stay mum)

[Captain_Frisk]

The hairs on my neck are rising on account of Galz, but I can't imagine he'd be so forward as scum.

[Eevee]

Shame on you for not playing like town, if you really are, Robz. Town should fight tooth and nail against their lynch and also try to be helpful.

Oh how dare you, don't even. I was perfectly helpful, I just wasn't believed. This is "blame the victim" mentality.

To be fair, post like your last one would have been good earlier. Probably wouldn't have saved you, but still.
.. if you are actually town. I'm still not sure.

Ftl seems to be actilurking like craaaaazy. If I don't live to see tomorrow, give him some heat will ya.

[Robz888]

Shame on you for not playing like town, if you really are, Robz. Town should fight tooth and nail against their lynch and also try to be helpful.

Oh how dare you, don't even. I was perfectly helpful, I just wasn't believed. This is "blame the victim" mentality.

To be fair, post like your last one would have been good earlier. Probably wouldn't have saved you, but still.
.. if you are actually town. I'm still not sure.

This is not the first time I've given this analysis...

[Captain_Frisk]

I wouldn't believe RobZ folks.... remember M6 - Didn't he continue to troll us for a while?

[jotheonah]

Hey Robz, when does day start up again in MXI?

[Galzria]

CF, I indeed have no active role. However I have said -repeatedly- since the start of D2 that two things happened to me last night. I have done everything in my power to figure out what the first thing is -exactly-. I have made no headway on this front however, so I'm left to my own devices. Given this, I may or may not kill myself tonight. I may become drunk. I may do any number of things -to myself-. I simply don't know.

[Eevee]

Shame on you for not playing like town, if you really are, Robz. Town should fight tooth and nail against their lynch and also try to be helpful.

Oh how dare you, don't even. I was perfectly helpful, I just wasn't believed. This is "blame the victim" mentality.

To be fair, post like your last one would have been good earlier. Probably wouldn't have saved you, but still.
.. if you are actually town. I'm still not sure.

This is not the first time I've given this analysis...

It's not, but it kind of got lost in the sea of snarky remarks and self-contradictions. That being said, if you really are town you got super unlucky and probably couldn't have done anything. Samesies if you are scum I guess, but in that case I don't really mind although I'd expect you to be more upset about that which would explain your late behavior.

[Galzria]

Shame on you for not playing like town, if you really are, Robz. Town should fight tooth and nail against their lynch and also try to be helpful.

Oh how dare you, don't even. I was perfectly helpful, I just wasn't believed. This is "blame the victim" mentality.

To be fair, post like your last one would have been good earlier. Probably wouldn't have saved you, but still.
.. if you are actually town. I'm still not sure.

Ftl seems to be actilurking like craaaaazy. If I don't live to see tomorrow, give him some heat will ya.

I THINK I've figured out ftl's flavour role, and if I'm right, it is NOT a scum role... It just couldn't be. I would be furious with eHal.

[Galzria]

Galz, you say you might end up killing yourself tonight. Want to tell us anything else in case you do? Or explain how that's a thing?

(not fishing, feel free to stay mum)

If I knew what I was doing, I may not choose to do it to myself. But I don't, and I don't want to risk anybody else since my role itself is arguably stronger AFTER my death. What town loses by my death is my voice and vote. But at least then I'll have something to do.

[Robz888]

Hey Robz, when does day start up again in MXI?

I meant to resume at 7:00 PM EDT tonight, however, I am attending an event at 6:00, so the start may be delayed an hour or so. Sometime tonight, between 7:00 and 9:00, I would wager.

[Eevee]

Galz, you say you might end up killing yourself tonight. Want to tell us anything else in case you do? Or explain how that's a thing?

(not fishing, feel free to stay mum)

If I knew what I was doing, I may not choose to do it to myself. But I don't, and I don't want to risk anybody else since my role itself is arguably stronger AFTER my death. What town loses by my death is my voice and vote. But at least then I'll have something to do.

That sounds VERY weird. No idea what it could be.

[Robz888]

Shame on you for not playing like town, if you really are, Robz. Town should fight tooth and nail against their lynch and also try to be helpful.

Oh how dare you, don't even. I was perfectly helpful, I just wasn't believed. This is "blame the victim" mentality.

To be fair, post like your last one would have been good earlier. Probably wouldn't have saved you, but still.
.. if you are actually town. I'm still not sure.

This is not the first time I've given this analysis...

It's not, but it kind of got lost in the sea of snarky remarks and self-contradictions. That being said, if you really are town you got super unlucky and probably couldn't have done anything. Samesies if you are scum I guess, but in that case I don't really mind although I'd expect you to be more upset about that which would explain your late behavior.

I agree I got unlucky, and I don't think the case against me is without merit, which is why I'm not bitter or resentful about this at all.

[Galzria]

Galz, you say you might end up killing yourself tonight. Want to tell us anything else in case you do? Or explain how that's a thing?

(not fishing, feel free to stay mum)

If I knew what I was doing, I may not choose to do it to myself. But I don't, and I don't want to risk anybody else since my role itself is arguably stronger AFTER my death. What town loses by my death is my voice and vote. But at least then I'll have something to do.

That sounds VERY weird. No idea what it could be.

Cryptic, I know, right? But without more information I'm trying to protect Towns interest. SOMEBODY out there knows what I'm talking about, and if they felt it warranted a response they would give it. As no such response has arisen (and if they're town, I understand why they might stay silent, thinking I'm trying to fish them out (I'm not)), I have slight hopes that I'll live. We'll find out though. If I don't, I'll be the first to let you know!

[Dsell]

Not quiiite finished catching up yet (geez this was an active morning!) but don't strangle me Frisk!

[Captain_Frisk]

Is that like Don't tase me bro?

[Dsell]

Is that like Don't tase me bro?

It's just like that! Except for the part where they tase him anyway. Don't strangle me anyway.

[Captain_Frisk]

I just watched that video again.  I didn't realize that john kerry was speaking.  I found it hilarious that he kept talking while 6 cops were unable to remove one rowdy student.

[Captain_Frisk]

As for strangling you, I'm pretty sure that if I did and you flipped town, we could talk about it in the spec thread pretty quickly!

[shraeye]

Shame on you for not playing like town, if you really are, Robz. Town should fight tooth and nail against their lynch and also try to be helpful.

Oh how dare you, don't even. I was perfectly helpful, I just wasn't believed. This is "blame the victim" mentality.

To be fair, post like your last one would have been good earlier. Probably wouldn't have saved you, but still.
.. if you are actually town. I'm still not sure.

Ftl seems to be actilurking like craaaaazy. If I don't live to see tomorrow, give him some heat will ya.

Don't get me started with the actilurking bit, eevee.

[ftl]

Wait, am I really that lurky this game?

Idunno, maybe I have been lately. I'm just not sure what to think of Robz. Earlier I wanted to lynch him, but his roleclaim seemed sort of believable to me.... sort of. I don't really have any particular defense of him to post though.

[Galzria]

Wait, am I really that lurky this game?

Idunno, maybe I have been lately. I'm just not sure what to think of Robz. Earlier I wanted to lynch him, but his roleclaim seemed sort of believable to me.... sort of. I don't really have any particular defense of him to post though.

Well, I do believe he's lynched regardless, so we're sure to find out!

But I haven't found you overwhelmingly lurky, no.

[Eevee]

Wait, am I really that lurky this game?

Idunno, maybe I have been lately. I'm just not sure what to think of Robz. Earlier I wanted to lynch him, but his roleclaim seemed sort of believable to me.... sort of. I don't really have any particular defense of him to post though.

I feel you've offered somewhat little insight on the actual relations between players and roles but have always seemed to be there to respond instantly when someone has asked you a question. It's something I definitely find scummy, but it might be the general fast pace of the game thus far that makes your normal level of activity seem low in comparison (I wouldn't call you a lurker, no, you have definitely been active). We just have had A LOT of real stuff to discuss for a day 2 (robz, frisk, watno, is there scum in the neighborhood), and you seemed to have been more willing to offer your insights on theory stuff / other "safe" stuff. But really, this might be a wrong impression, but this was the second time I thought in my head "actilurker!" when reading your post, so I thought I'd note I think you should be reread.

[ftl]

Fair enough. Well, hf rereading me everyone, then. Guess I better have good stuff to say tomorrow to stay alive.

(Assuming this day is already over? Why has there not been a lock yet?)

[Eevee]

Fair enough. Well, hf rereading me everyone, then. Guess I better have good stuff to say tomorrow to stay alive.

(Assuming this day is already over? Why has there not been a lock yet?)

Both eHalcyon and Voltgloss only have mobile access at the moment. Lock should be coming when eHalcyon gets home and gets the flavor written I would assume.

[Captain_Frisk]

eHalc and Volt are allegedly phone posting and unable / unwilling to votecount and lock.

I hypothesize that a lynch may not have occurred, and have therefore "Unvoted" for science.

[eHalcyon]

Back now.  I am going to check the vote count.  Updates soon...

[Robz888]

"It is a far, far better thing that I do (for my meta and future games where I am scum), than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to than I have ever known."

[Captain_Frisk]

"It is a far, far better thing that I do (for my meta and future games where I am scum), than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to than I have ever known."

Screw everyone who plays for future scum games.

[Galzria]

"It is a far, far better thing that I do (for my meta and future games where I am scum), than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to than I have ever known."

Screw everyone who plays for future scum games.

This. I'll play scum when I roll it. I play town when I'm town.

[Robz888]

"It is a far, far better thing that I do (for my meta and future games where I am scum), than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to than I have ever known."

Screw everyone who plays for future scum games.

I'm just joking...

[Captain_Frisk]

That reminds me:

Vote: O

[shraeye]

"It is a far, far better thing that I do (for my meta and future games where I am scum), than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to than I have ever known."

Screw everyone who plays for future scum games.

I'm just joking...

Sure

[Captain_Frisk]

RobZ - if you're not trollin, do you have any last words for us?

[Galzria]

"It is a far, far better thing that I do (for my meta and future games where I am scum), than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to than I have ever known."

Screw everyone who plays for future scum games.

I'm just joking...

Yeah, I don't hate you for it or anything (assuming you're town here). But I'll feel less bad about lynching someonewho says they have to play to stay one step ahead for their next scum game.

[Robz888]

RobZ - if you're not trollin, do you have any last words for us?

I've given my last words over and over and over again. Something doesn't add up in the Watno department, as you will soon see. Everyone keep in mind that ftl somehow knew I was seaweed, but what does it mean? Joth/Jorbles = 1 scum, probably? Frisk sounds like SK to me. Don't ignore everyone else, but even I think these are the people to focus on.

[Robz888]

"It is a far, far better thing that I do (for my meta and future games where I am scum), than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to than I have ever known."

Screw everyone who plays for future scum games.

I'm just joking...

Yeah, I don't hate you for it or anything (assuming you're town here). But I'll feel less bad about lynching someonewho says they have to play to stay one step ahead for their next scum game.

Yeah, and as I've said, i don't feel bad about being lynch, I do understand why it follows logically from the stated night actions. Ah well.

[Galzria]

RobZ - if you're not trollin, do you have any last words for us?

I've given my last words over and over and over again. Something doesn't add up in the Watno department, as you will soon see. Everyone keep in mind that ftl somehow knew I was seaweed, but what does it mean? Joth/Jorbles = 1 scum, probably? Frisk sounds like SK to me. Don't ignore everyone else, but even I think these are the people to focus on.

If you're town, I agree, these are generally good reads. I've never dismissed the Jorbles/Joth situation, just didn't see a good resolution of it today. And I've maintained that it's highly likely that you or Watno was lying - so if it isn't you (despite supporting evidence)...

[Captain_Frisk]

Does that mean I can kill watno?

(kidding)

[Galzria]

Does that mean I can kill watno?

(kidding)

Not tonight. However, IF you're town, and you get killed tonight - reads?

[Dsell]

If Robz is scum, it seems likely that Watno is scum because I do think it's unlikely Robz could have targeted three people. But who knows. If he's scum he could have been lying about his PM.

There is a flaw to that, though. Because if Watno was trying to cover for his scumbuddy and frame someone else for the kill, they'd both be in trouble if we lynched "X person who targeted Insomniac last night" and they were not scum.

[ashersky]

I will state again I originally started the Robz wagon, for better or worse.

Eevee, don't target me.

[Galzria]

If Robz is scum, it seems likely that Watno is scum because I do think it's unlikely Robz could have targeted three people. But who knows. If he's scum he could have been lying about his PM.

There is a flaw to that, though. Because if Watno was trying to cover for his scumbuddy and frame someone else for the kill, they'd both be in trouble if we lynched "X person who targeted Insomniac last night" and they were not scum.

While Robz/Watno is possible (if Robz is scum), it's not definite. It's quite conceivable that Robz was simply bussed by a third player, with Jorbles, and that Watno had no involvement.

[Captain_Frisk]

Still don't like Shraeye for day 1 asherwagon.

Asher however has been MUCH quieter today.

Where is lekkit?  I know he replaced in, but he's still not very active.

Otherwise, I'd probably focus on the ice cream brothers and / or you, unless we get some new information regarding roles with flavor manipulations.

[Dsell]

I think/hope that it's somewhat unlikely that there's (much) bussing in this game. Until we know better, I'm definitely gonna prefer theories that work without bussing.

[Galzria]

I will state again I originally started the Robz wagon, for better or worse.

Eevee, don't target me.

You cast the first vote. My case on Robz preceded yours.

[Captain_Frisk]

No I want the credit for hammering!

[Galzria]

LOL! 10 people following this thread.

[Eevee]

LOL! 10 people following this thread.

we are interesting!

[Captain_Frisk]

Thats because the only competition for entertainment right now is baseball.


ZING.

[eHalcyon]

"It's no secret that Sunnydale High isn't really like other high school," Jonathan continued.  "A lot of weird stuff happens here."

"Zombies!" someone called out.

"Hyena people!" another shouted.

"Snyder!" said a third, eliciting a chuckle from the crowd.

"But whenever ---"

Bzzzzt...

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Have a hankering for that three-eyed fish you just caught?  We'll sashimi that, no problem.

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We now return you to the conclusion of Buffy, the --- bzzzzt.




Vote Count 2.5

Captain_Frisk (1): Watno
Jorbles (1): cayvie
Robz888 {7}: ashersky, Dsell, Eevee, jotheonah, Jorbles, Galzria, Captain_Frisk
Watno (1): Robz888

Not voting (3): ftl, Lekkit, shraeye

Robz888 has been lynched.  He was a town-aligned KELPtomaniac.

Night 2 has begun.  Night actions are due in 96 hours, i.e. by 2:00pm EDT on Monday, October 15. 

This deadline is an extension due to the weekend, but it would be appreciated if all actions were in by Saturday night (that would be a good time for me to put everything together, and we'd still have time for Volt to proof).

Thread locked!

[eHalcyon]

In A Pickle!

At last, the first day of school had arrived!  But as the kids filed into the classroom they learned that most of their prize-winning vegetables had rotted.  Unfortunately, there wasn't time to worry about that -- a greater mystery was at hand!  Keesha's first-place cucumber had not rotted -- it had been replaced by a pickle.  How peculiar!  What kind of a monster would do such a thing?

Looking anxiously around the classroom, Keesha noticed that ashersky and ftl were completely covered in magenta paint.  "Aha, I've caught you magenta-handed!" Keesha cried.  "Magenta is close to red, so you must be guilty!"

But before they could be prosecuted, Ms. Frizzle reminded the class that the room has been locked all summer and only she had the key.  Moreover, Ms. Frizzle admitted that she was the one who had tampered with the cucumber.

The kids decided to put Ms. Frizzle on trial, but as they turned the classroom into a court they found something horrible.  The smell of rotting vegetables had covered the smell of the dead bodies.

Galzria had been killed.  He was town-aligned Spiritual Medium.  Red pieces of fish are spattered around his head, especially in his ear and dribbling out of his mouth.

Jorbles had been killed.  He was town-aligned Strawberry Townie.  A familiar looking metal ice cream scoop was found amidst the crumbs of his waffle cone body in a small puddle of vanilla.

Needless to say, the children were severely traumatized.  Therapists soon discovered that the kids had become delusional, inventing an impressively cohesive fantasy world in which their yellow school bus was magical.  The kids unabashedly recounted tales of field trips into volcanoes, or back in time, or even inside the body of one of their classmates.  What a tragedy.



Status:

0/1 cucumbers recovered
0/1 field trips taken
10/10 students in need of therapy

Class has been cancelled indefinitely.





Day 3 Start

Vote Count 3.1

Not voting (10): ashersky, Captain_Frisk, cayvie, Dsell, Eevee, ftl, jotheonah, Lekkit, shraeye, Watno

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Lynch deadline: Tuesday, October 30, 5:00pm MDT

Thread Unlocked!

[Captain_Frisk]

Did not kill as instructed.  Poor Galz - I hope he really does become more powerful with death.

Joth - any commentary?

[cayvie]

hm.

hm.

jorbles is dead.

this really feels like a frame job in jotheonah.

watno, why did you target ashersky and ftl?

[Dsell]

Yeah, what kind of mafia kill is it if it comes with your role flavor every single time? So I guess I wanna say that Jo is probable town.

Need to re-assess the Watno situation but I'm pretty sure at some point during the long night I realized that it's indeed possible that all three of Jorbles, Robz, and Watno were telling the truth (and indeed, 2/3 of them were).

[cayvie]

okay, there's also a 3rd, new, flavor for kills here.

2 nights ago, insomniac was scooped and strangled.

last night, jorbles was scooped, but galz was... fishsploded? not sure.

i don't think a vig would have targeted galz; he seemed pretty town to me. this all makes me trust frisk a bit more, tbh.

[Eevee]

Finallyyyy I missed playing mafia.

Galzria had been killed.  He was town-aligned Spiritual Medium.  Red pieces of fish are spattered around his head, especially in his ear and dribbling out of his mouth.

Sort of reminds me of Babel's Fish in hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy, no?

Galzria dying doesn't surprise me at all (because as I so vehemently argued yesterday, he seemed veery towny and also seemed to have about the best handle of what was going on).

Jorbles dying is really weird. A lot of us, confirmed townie Galzria included, thought it was pretty likely there was scum in the neighborhood and now we have two of them dead and town. Why would a mafia team with jotheonah in it do this? And then there is the flavor issue.. Either someone (wasn't Robz..) can somehow mess with the flavor repeatedly (which I still just find haaaard to believe), or jotheonah is actually scum.

@cayvie
If a vig killed Galzria, I'm a mad bro. No way imo. Had to have been a serial killer then? Which would mean Frisk is being truthful?

[Lekkit]

I would assume the flavor of Galz kill is a red herring.

Yeah, it was probably a Vig/SK who targeted Jorbles as he was coming off scummy.

[Eevee]

I would assume the flavor of Galz kill is a red herring.

Yeah, it was probably a Vig/SK who targeted Jorbles as he was coming off scummy.

I don't understand this post, can you explain?

[cayvie]

hmm, going through galzria's posts, i've found something interesting.

day 1 he makes this post:

Well (and I'm nor trying to rolefish), it was really weird, but my role PM contained absolutely 0 Harry Potter flavor (it actually contained no flavor that was specifically related to anything), so before the game officially launched I was seriously wondering if eHal was trolling us all with his pre-game talk of Harry Potter.

The reason I bring it up is that the list of things (rooms cleaned, beans, dementors etc.) Means absolutely nothing to me. I don't know if this I'd true of everybody or just me. In a game where Flavor is so important, I have to wonder how many red herrings will be out there.

day 2 he says this:

Only Dsell answered this, but it could also be important:

Did anybody else target me last night? I mentioned very early on today that two occurrences happened to me, and it was while I was pondering the first that I was fed the ice cream. I would like to know the source of my first ponderence - or at least to know if anyone will fess up to it.

Actually, hmm... Maybe that's not the safest way to do things. This is what I know: While I sat pondering the meaning of the song last night, I was targeted by someone, and something (I know what) happened. It was while I was pondering the occurrence of the first event that I was fed Ice Cream. I did not ponder the reason for the Ice Cream, I simply enjoyed it.

I'm trying to figure out my own little mystery, but I don't want it to be at the detriment of town. However, knowing what I'm dealing with could help me not kill myself tonight (yes, it's a concern). How should I handle this? I really don't want to fish - and this could all be a red herring - but I don't know what to do.

he mentions fish and red herrings both days, and then dies with bits of red fish...

something's up

[Lekkit]

Herring is a fish. Red fishes could be red herrings. I assume this is the work of some kind of twisted mind.

The second part of my post was a reply to cayvie, but you ninja'd in a post and I didn't really bother to PPE.

[cayvie]

Herring is a fish. Red fishes could be red herrings. I assume this is the work of some kind of twisted mind.

The second part of my post was a reply to cayvie, but you ninja'd in a post and I didn't really bother to PPE.

yeah, so did galz know he was being killed? is that that's going on? maybe that's what his "spiritual medium" ability did? somehow...

i don't know how you would make that role work...

[Eevee]

But how can it be a red herring if.. it's actually just red herrings? What's the twist?

@Lekkit
But we concluded night that Frisk strangled Insomniac and then someone else (so mafia) killed him with the ice cream. And now Jorbles was killed by ice cream, no one got strangled but there was a third flavor attached to Galzria's death. My theory is that Frisk is a vig like he claims, mafia killed Jorbles (WHY though) and a third party, likely the serial killer got Galzria.

[cayvie]

But how can it be a red herring if.. it's actually just red herrings? What's the twist?

@Lekkit
But we concluded night that Frisk strangled Insomniac and then someone else (so mafia) killed him with the ice cream. And now Jorbles was killed by ice cream, no one got strangled but there was a third flavor attached to Galzria's death. My theory is that Frisk is a vig like he claims, mafia killed Jorbles (WHY though) and a third party, likely the serial killer got Galzria.

i agree with your assessments.

i think mafia killed jorbles because they thought they could get jotheonah lynched. either that or jo is playing a DANGEROUS double-bluff as scum.

[Eevee]

NEW THEORY!! I like this one.

Galzria predicted he might die. He said he'd do something, and doesn't know what could happen. And that it's ok, because he might be more useful dead. So Frisk could still be a serial killer that didn't shoot (strangle?), because Galzria's death was likely an accidental suicide. Explains why no one got hit with that flavor night 1.

[cayvie]

oh

i was fed strawberry ice cream last night.

[Eevee]

oh

i was fed strawberry ice cream last night.

Jorbles was a roleblocker (right?), so I would imagine it means you got blocked.

[Eevee]

Watnoooo we know you're online come give us your results! Or should he hold off in hopes of catching a liar?

[cayvie]

Watnoooo we know you're online come give us your results! Or should he hold off in hopes of catching a liar?

doesn't seem too useful when we know (sorta?) who he watched

[cayvie]

that is, holding off doesn't seem too useful.

[Eevee]

Watnoooo we know you're online come give us your results! Or should he hold off in hopes of catching a liar?

doesn't seem too useful when we know (sorta?) who he watched

Oh right. Watnooooo get in here shed some light to these mysteries.

[cayvie]

also: where are people getting this "galz is more useful after death" from? i don't remember it and can't seem to find it. he said a lot...

[Eevee]

also: where are people getting this "galz is more useful after death" from? i don't remember it and can't seem to find it. he said a lot...

He said that, towards the end of day 1. IIRC it was something like "me dying might not be the end of the world anyways, I could be even more useful after dying actually.."

[Captain_Frisk]

iPad posting, but fos dsell. 

We have 2 kills n1 mine plus ice cream man. 

N2 we also have 2 kills, but I sat out.  Not a slam dunk, but we do know that dsell was role blocked.  Unless we had a lucky doctor or other protection elsewhere it stands to reason that dsell possibly attempted a kill and was blocked

[jotheonah]

oh

i was fed strawberry ice cream last night.

That's very strange, since according to the number of scoops remaining, Jorbles didn't use his power last night.

[cayvie]

oh

i was fed strawberry ice cream last night.

That's very strange, since according to the number of scoops remaining, Jorbles didn't use his power last night.

i dunno what that means

i also don't know if i was roleblocked.

[jotheonah]

In the QT, we all shared scoops - X-shots of our powers. We had X shots at the start of the night. I used Y shots. eHalc says we have X-Y shots. Ergo, mod confirmation that Jorbles did NOT use his power. Which contradicts your report.

[cayvie]

Tonight is not as eventful as the previous night. No mysterious music at least. But just as that thought crosses your mind, someone shoves a scoop of extremely sweet strawberry ice cream down your throat. Talk about a sugar rush!

well, here's what i got.

[jotheonah]

NEW THEORY:

There are TWO ice cream neighborhoods in this game.  There's the vegan ice cream neighborhood, which was all town and a mafia ice cream neighborhood that's all scum. 

That explains this new inconsistency, and it explains the flavor kills.

[shraeye]

I was thinking, didn't Galz say he could do something powerful on death?  Maybe with cayvie's find of the red herring clues he planted, that it is a hint that this was actually a Galz-suicide since the kill flavor was red fish?  Maybe it's a really dramatic "commuter" type role, where he can "disappear" for a whole day and night, and it looks like he got killed during the day.  Ok, on reread that sounds really crazy.  But for some reason it's the first thing that popped into my head.

[shraeye]

also, I was sure that joth was doing the kills, and somehow squirmed out of it yesterday; I'm not the best at mafia theory but it seems like getting 2 kills for 1 mafia is not the worst of the trades.  Maybe he didn't know that his ice-cream flavor would be used on kills.

BUT THEN I'm actually buying this crazy theory he defends himself with!

NEW THEORY:

There are TWO ice cream neighborhoods in this game.  There's the vegan ice cream neighborhood, which was all town and a mafia ice cream neighborhood that's all scum. 

That explains this new inconsistency, and it explains the flavor kills.

Cayvie's quote did say that it was "extremely sweet strawberry icecream."  Maybe the unhealthy icecream is scum-team stuff, and healthy ice-cream is like the mason-neighborhood group.

[Dsell]

Cayvie's quote did say that it was "extremely sweet strawberry icecream."  Maybe the unhealthy icecream is scum-team stuff, and healthy ice-cream is like the mason-neighborhood group.

I just checked my PM for when I was blocked by Jorbles for this exact same thing, but nope, it said it was "extremely sweet" too.

[Captain_Frisk]

So we have either:

a. A liar within {joth, cayvie}
b. The ability to recharge scoops?
c.  Joth was roleblocked and as such did not use his Y scoops last night?

[ashersky]

So we have either:

a. A liar within {joth, cayvie}
b. The ability to recharge scoops?
c.  Joth was roleblocked and as such did not use his Y scoops last night?

I know the answer to this is yes.

[Dsell]

So we have either:

a. A liar within {joth, cayvie}
b. The ability to recharge scoops?
c.  Joth was roleblocked and as such did not use his Y scoops last night?

I know the answer to this is yes.

I do as well...but I am still trying to work out the ramifications.

[Dsell]

I'm deliberately leaving which question I'm answering vague for now.

[ftl]

watno should probably reveal his results I think?

I'm not sure, those people didn't die so maybe the people who targeted them are more likely town, but still useful to know. It might be detrimental if one of the mafia was targeted by watno, and by somebody else who had a power role who the mafia were able to identify (like a roleblocker or something), and revealing the targets might out a pr to the mafia... seems like a stretch though.

We might have more success going back to standard scumhunting, looking for people who don't contribute but are happy to lynch townies, etc. than trying to figure out this flavor, which hasn't worked out so well so far. Though I guess Dsell and ash know something.

[cayvie]

i want to know why watno, as watcher, targeted who he did.

i would think that a town watcher would target much townier-looking players than ftl and ashersky.

[Dsell]

What's the advantage of having Watno reveal?

He may indeed be scum, but with the knowledge that Jorbles and Robz are town, their story sorta kinda checks out I gueeeess. At least they weren't all colluding anyway. IF Watno is telling the truth, it means the ice-cream kill was a ninja kill, which does seem a little weird.

Or we could always lynch Frisk who is really still obvscum. (Ok maybe not THAT obvious since there definitely seem to be a number of red herrings and misdirections in the role names/descriptions/flavor.)

[cayvie]

What's the advantage of having Watno reveal?

He may indeed be scum, but with the knowledge that Jorbles and Robz are town, their story sorta kinda checks out I gueeeess. At least they weren't all colluding anyway. IF Watno is telling the truth, it means the ice-cream kill was a ninja kill, which does seem a little weird.

Or we could always lynch Frisk who is really still obvscum. (Ok maybe not THAT obvious since there definitely seem to be a number of red herrings and misdirections in the role names/descriptions/flavor.)

how is frisk obvscum?

[Dsell]

He's the black-gloved, strangling serial killer. We decided to lynch obvmafia Robz over obvSK Frisk yesterday.

[Dsell]

(That last quote was meant to be a bit facetious because obviously Robz did not turn up mafia like we thought. Which is why I think it is legitimately possible that the glovey, strangley flavor could actually exist on a town role.)

[cayvie]

vote: Dsell

you don't sound good, man.

[ashersky]

Reminder: there's the read the freaking flavor thing.

Anyone know what the D3 opening flavor was?  I didn't recognize it.  Any hints for us to utilize?

[cayvie]

Magic School Bus, I think... though with some dark overtones

[ashersky]

NEW THEORY:

There are TWO ice cream neighborhoods in this game.  There's the vegan ice cream neighborhood, which was all town and a mafia ice cream neighborhood that's all scum. 

That explains this new inconsistency, and it explains the flavor kills.

Joth, you've said you are vanilla ice cream guy, right?

That's two vanilla ice cream kills in a row, right?

The "why would Joth kill his neighborhood buddy after all the D2 talk that would be crazy" argument sounds like a great wifom opportunity for Joth to take advantage of.

And this new theory to throw us off the trail?  Hmph.  There is no inconsistency, and you killing explains the flavor kills.

Putting it out there to discuss, cause Joth looks bad right now.

[Captain_Frisk]

Joth's new theory sounds about as likely as my MXII spec thread Cuzz / RobZ / Insomniac (SK) theory.

Cayvie's theory regarding flavor framing sounds plausible.  Galz could do that in Morgrim's game IIRC - so there's even f.ds precedent.

Of course, its also possible that that kill flavor is so obvious in this game that Joth's mates decided that because he was already in trouble, he should just keep going and see how long we let him get away with it.  I mean - if I was scum and suspected that my kill flavor was going to smashing them in the funsockets with Russell's teapot, I'd probably want to keep that quiet, right?

As for Watno, I'm not sure.  I mean - I'm pretty sure that he can watch, since he clearly watched me strangling.  As for whether the ice cream killer is a ninja, or Watno is a liar, or ${role madness} happened... i have no idea.

Going to go back and read DSell at some point today.

[Eevee]

iPad posting, but fos dsell. 

We have 2 kills n1 mine plus ice cream man. 

N2 we also have 2 kills, but I sat out.  Not a slam dunk, but we do know that dsell was role blocked.  Unless we had a lucky doctor or other protection elsewhere it stands to reason that dsell possibly attempted a kill and was blocked

This is huge! Definitely worth pursuing, I'm unsure if I like this theory better than the Galz-accidentally-commited-suicide one. Dsell's comments today have looked weird to me too. One tangent though; I think we can assume that the ice cream kills are mafia, because we've had one both nights and Frisk already took responsibility for the strangulation yesterday. So, that means that if Dsell is scum, he is a serial killer that got roleblocked yesterday*, and Frisk is the vig he claims he is. So, again, assuming we've caught the serial killer, do we want to lynch him? We could also do what we did to Frisk; instruct him to nokill / kill targets we desire. Never waste any town power roles on him, and just lynch him if he starts flying solo. Concentrate on the mafia hunt today. Idk, thoughts?

We must not forget the weirdness of yesterday.

What's the advantage of having Watno reveal?

He may indeed be scum, but with the knowledge that Jorbles and Robz are town, their story sorta kinda checks out I gueeeess. At least they weren't all colluding anyway. IF Watno is telling the truth, it means the ice-cream kill was a ninja kill, which does seem a little weird.

Yeah, Watno watched Insomniac, got only one result even though kill flavor revealed there was two. THIS IS STILL NOT EXPLAINED. Sure, mafia could have had a ninja kill, but how can someone ninja crushing a guy with a giant ice cream scoop? Like you'd think the watcher would notice? eHalc obviously cares about flavor, and that just makes no sense. Am I off base here / not understanding how a ninja kill works properly?

*Means that he can't be strongman (in the event he is a SK), usually serial killers have some sort of a boost so we'd likely be looking at ninja, x-shot bulletproof or investigation immune. If we decide to leave him alone, I don't think any power roles (namely cops) should target him because we can't know if targeting him would help any.

[Captain_Frisk]

Quick post count check for the remaining survivors.

ashersky: 51
Captain_Frisk: 121
cayvie: 91
Dsell: 104
Eevee: 150
ftl: 78
jotheonah: 90
shraeye: 73
Lekkit: 21 (voltaire) + 27 (lekkit) = 48
Watno: 31

Vote: Watno - at least until he comes in here and actually participates in this game other than outing the town vig.

Lekkit and Asher - would like to hear more from you as well.

[Dsell]

vote: Dsell

you don't sound good, man.

I'm quite well, thanks!

[Dsell]

Dsell's comments today have looked weird to me too. One tangent though; I think we can assume that the ice cream kills are mafia, because we've had one both nights and Frisk already took responsibility for the strangulation yesterday. So, that means that if Dsell is scum, he is a serial killer that got roleblocked yesterday*, and Frisk is the vig he claims he is. So, again, assuming we've caught the serial killer, do we want to lynch him? We could also do what we did to Frisk; instruct him to nokill / kill targets we desire. Never waste any town power roles on him, and just lynch him if he starts flying solo. Concentrate on the mafia hunt today. Idk, thoughts?

Really? It's more likely that I'm SK than the black-gloved strangler who we CAUGHT killing yesterday? Yes, it's possible he's a vig but I still think it's more likely that he's the SK, and if that's the case I'm sure he's lying about not doing a kill (since he apparently wasn't reverse-tracked this time).

Recall that I didn't even realize that I was roleblocked until halfway through yesterday when eHalc sent me a PM explaining the oversight. And even then, I couldn't confirm that I'd been roleblocked till later on in the day.

[shraeye]

Recall that I didn't even realize that I was roleblocked until halfway through yesterday when eHalc sent me a PM explaining the oversight. And even then, I couldn't confirm that I'd been roleblocked till later on in the day.

It doesn't seem to me like an SK would have been jumping at the opportunity to say he was roleblocked, I don't recall what oversight occured related to all of this, all I recall there was somebody not covered in paint who should have been or something.  And I'm confused as to why you couldn't confirm being roleblocked until sometime after getting a PM explaining the oversight.

Could you sum up what happened yesterday in regards to this roleblocking oversight, DSell? (this is a directed question, I could also look it up myself, or ask anybody else to explain it.  I MEAN for Dsell to be the answerer of this)

[Dsell]

Recall that I didn't even realize that I was roleblocked until halfway through yesterday when eHalc sent me a PM explaining the oversight. And even then, I couldn't confirm that I'd been roleblocked till later on in the day.

It doesn't seem to me like an SK would have been jumping at the opportunity to say he was roleblocked, I don't recall what oversight occured related to all of this, all I recall there was somebody not covered in paint who should have been or something.  And I'm confused as to why you couldn't confirm being roleblocked until sometime after getting a PM explaining the oversight.

Could you sum up what happened yesterday in regards to this roleblocking oversight, DSell? (this is a directed question, I could also look it up myself, or ask anybody else to explain it.  I MEAN for Dsell to be the answerer of this)

I used a night power, when I got my PM at the beginning of the day, it didn't tell me that I'd been roleblocked, nor did the message make it clear that my power had no effect. Later, during the day, I got a follow up PM saying a mistake had been made and that last night a scoop of extremely sweet strawberry ice cream had been shoved into my mouth. The PM said nothing about roleblocking specifically, though Jorbles was claiming to be a roleblocker at the time. I could not immediately confirm that I had been roleblocked (and thus could not confirm the truth of Jorbles' claim) but a statement from a player later on, if it was true and I believe it was, led me to realize that I had indeed been roleblocked.

[Eevee]

Dsell's comments today have looked weird to me too. One tangent though; I think we can assume that the ice cream kills are mafia, because we've had one both nights and Frisk already took responsibility for the strangulation yesterday. So, that means that if Dsell is scum, he is a serial killer that got roleblocked yesterday*, and Frisk is the vig he claims he is. So, again, assuming we've caught the serial killer, do we want to lynch him? We could also do what we did to Frisk; instruct him to nokill / kill targets we desire. Never waste any town power roles on him, and just lynch him if he starts flying solo. Concentrate on the mafia hunt today. Idk, thoughts?

Really? It's more likely that I'm SK than the black-gloved strangler who we CAUGHT killing yesterday? Yes, it's possible he's a vig but I still think it's more likely that he's the SK, and if that's the case I'm sure he's lying about not doing a kill (since he apparently wasn't reverse-tracked this time).

Recall that I didn't even realize that I was roleblocked until halfway through yesterday when eHalc sent me a PM explaining the oversight. And even then, I couldn't confirm that I'd been roleblocked till later on in the day.

How do you explain Galzria's death flavor then? Feels important to actually try to read into the flavor in a game titled like this.. and flavor supports Frisk's claim.

[Eevee]

If it seems like I'm sure Frisk is a vig and you are a SK, that's not the case. Just that all the explanations I've seen presented support that theory. Wish we had Galzria here to help figure things out..

[Captain_Frisk]

I still think it's more likely that he's the SK, and if that's the case I'm sure he's lying about not doing a kill (since he apparently wasn't reverse-tracked this time).

So you think i'm the ice cream murderer and the black gloved person didn't counterclaim (or kill me), or i somehow murdered Galz with some red fish?  Or I did try to kill and it was blocked?  How?  I already told you that i'm super strong. 

[Dsell]

Dangit, stupid internet died before my post posted. Yeah the flavor doesn't match the kill so it probably wasn't Frisk.

[Eevee]

Dangit, stupid internet died before my post posted. Yeah the flavor doesn't match the kill so it probably wasn't Frisk.

So..

[Captain_Frisk]

So Vote: DSell i think is what it sounds like. 

[Captain_Frisk]

Oh - and FOS: Eevee for buddying up to the Vig.

[Eevee]

Oh - and FOS: Eevee for buddying up to the Vig.

PEOPLE_ALWAYS_ACCUSE_ME_FOR THIS. Breath. Breath.

Why would I buddy up to you? You are one of the most suspected guys around ffs! Not exactly the guy mafia wants to befriend? On the contrary, if I was mafia it would make so much more sense to try to get you lynched.. I try to be a pleasant guy, somehow it always and always is read as buddying up to someone. Frisk, you've played so much with me earlier, you should no better! Yeah, I try to catch scum, and narratives where you are the vig seem more reasonable to me atm, so I obviously try to work with you to catch scum, but how is my trust unwarranted? I'm not saying you are obvtown, but I wish people like Dsell who call you obvscum would back it up better? Last I heard was "he is the SK, lied about not shooting and killed Galzria. "Someone else probably shot Galzria". Dsell, do you still think Frisk is the SK?

Fighting with someone who accuses me of thinking he is probably town, check.

[Captain_Frisk]

If it seems like I'm sure Frisk is a vig and you are a SK, that's not the case. Just that all the explanations I've seen presented support that theory. Wish we had Galzria here to help figure things out..

Buddy Frisk, Man that sucks tell on Galz.

Dsell's comments today have looked weird to me too. One tangent though; I think we can assume that the ice cream kills are mafia, because we've had one both nights and Frisk already took responsibility for the strangulation yesterday. So, that means that if Dsell is scum, he is a serial killer that got roleblocked yesterday*, and Frisk is the vig he claims he is. So, again, assuming we've caught the serial killer, do we want to lynch him? We could also do what we did to Frisk; instruct him to nokill / kill targets we desire. Never waste any town power roles on him, and just lynch him if he starts flying solo. Concentrate on the mafia hunt today. Idk, thoughts?

Really? It's more likely that I'm SK than the black-gloved strangler who we CAUGHT killing yesterday? Yes, it's possible he's a vig but I still think it's more likely that he's the SK, and if that's the case I'm sure he's lying about not doing a kill (since he apparently wasn't reverse-tracked this time).

Recall that I didn't even realize that I was roleblocked until halfway through yesterday when eHalc sent me a PM explaining the oversight. And even then, I couldn't confirm that I'd been roleblocked till later on in the day.

How do you explain Galzria's death flavor then? Feels important to actually try to read into the flavor in a game titled like this.. and flavor supports Frisk's claim.

More buddy.

Now don't get me wrong - you have a correct read here (at least as it pertains to me being a vig).  I'm just wondering if you believe me because it makes sense, or because you <b>know</b> its true.

[Dsell]

I didn't kill anybody. It looks like Frisk didn't either last night, but that doesn't mean he's not the SK. I think it's more likely that he's the SK than vig due to the look of the kills and the fact that he killed Insom, who (I may be remembering wrong) didn't seem very scummy.

I don't know who made the kills, it's possible Galz' power even made him commit suicide. K so Frisk might not be obvscum but he's so very far from being confirmed as a vig. It's even still possible that he's mafia!

[shraeye]

I've fallen behind a bit while teaching my class, and have to run to a seminar now.  But I don't understand why people say that Frisk is town.  How does him claiming to not have killed clear him?  There still were two deaths?

Vote: Captain Frisk

[shraeye]

Brief skimming shows that people talked about Frisk in the last few posts, maybe an explanation is there.  I don't have time to read that right now, I'll catch up later.

[Captain_Frisk]

Voting without reading.  Awesome.

[Eevee]

@Frisk
How would I know? Are you saying I'm a SK? You are making no sense, buddy.. And ffs, I stand by what I said about Galzria. We need people presenting narratives that could explain what has happened. It's not happening today, not at all.

@Dsell
Okay, Galzria commiting suicide and Frisk nokilling as a serial killer is a narrative I find reasonable. Other possibilities:
Galzria commiting suicide and Frisk being a vig, no serial killer (unlikely imo, so many players in the game, needs two scum factions)
Galzria getting shot by Frisk, no vig (flavor needs explaining)
Galzria getting shot by a serial killer who is someone other than Frisk and missed their shot n1 (could be Dsell for example because of the roleblocking), Frisk is a vig.

Idk, saying Frisk is obvscum was pretty ridiculous, both are certainly possible. Getting roleblocked the night a serial killer possbily missed it's shot is just pretty incriminating too, surely you understand the suspicion?

Yeah wtf, tempted to policy vote shraeye for voting without reading!? But then again I doubt scum would be that dumb/bold, but wugwug.

[Captain_Frisk]

@Frisk
How would I know? Are you saying I'm a SK? You are making no sense, buddy.. And ffs, I stand by what I said about Galzria. We need people presenting narratives that could explain what has hap

I claimed vig and was not countered claimed  As mafia - you would then suspect that I'm Vig or SK.

Next night 2 kills happen.  I suppose the Galz suicide? is an option, but IMHO this points to another killing role out there.  If I was an SK - and there was a vig - then they would have counter claimed day 1 right? (who puts multiple town vigs in a game?)

So, the real SK or the Mafia kill was blocked on night 1 (note - assuming this is not a multi scum team game), and last night both of those kills went through.  When the other kill goes through - and its clearly not mine - then mafia knows I'm a town vig.  Naturally, I don't want to die, and here look comes my buddy Eevee to help out.

[ftl]

I think Galzria probably suicided. He thought it might happen, and the flavor matches the flavor that Galz had been hinting at earlier, with the fish things.

I think the mafia is definitely killing with a vanilla icecream flavor. I doubt it's joth because of mod wifom, but mod wifom sort of sucks as a reason

Still no idea whether frisk is vig or SK, but it doesn't matter at the moment, with so many townies dead sk probably should play like a vig anyway and we'll deal with that closer to the endgame

Man, lets' forget the flavor stuff. It led us entirely wrong yesterday. Just go by standard scumhunting - who lurked until pressured, who supported lynches on townies for bad reasons, whether any claimed power roles used them in an anti-town way, etc. I suppose that means I have to take the time and do rereads of people, so it might be a while, but I think that might be a more productive way to go about today.

Or we could just lynch joth because the flavor leads us straight to him, and then be probably sad when the flavor misleads us again.

[Eevee]

I think Galzria probably suicided. He thought it might happen, and the flavor matches the flavor that Galz had been hinting at earlier, with the fish things.

I think the mafia is definitely killing with a vanilla icecream flavor. I doubt it's joth because of mod wifom, but mod wifom sort of sucks as a reason

Still no idea whether frisk is vig or SK, but it doesn't matter at the moment, with so many townies dead sk probably should play like a vig anyway and we'll deal with that closer to the endgame

Man, lets' forget the flavor stuff. It led us entirely wrong yesterday. Just go by standard scumhunting - who lurked until pressured, who supported lynches on townies for bad reasons, whether any claimed power roles used them in an anti-town way, etc. I suppose that means I have to take the time and do rereads of people, so it might be a while, but I think that might be a more productive way to go about today.

Or we could just lynch joth because the flavor leads us straight to him, and then be probably sad when the flavor misleads us again.

Got a good townie feeling of ftl from this post, needs more pondering like this. Maybe because I read it after reading Frisk's posts which I found super confusing.

Sorry I got semi-worked up earlier, shouldn't post when I'm hungry. I stand by everything I said, but the tone was maybe a bit out of line, my bad.

@Frisk
I don't understand this post.. At all. Isn't everyone (town or mafia) thinking you are either a vig or a sk? Except for the sk if there is one other than you obviously. The reasons for assuming the scoop-kills are mafia have been explained numerous times. What are you blaming me off? I don't want to you to die if you really are a vig, and I'm trying to discuss possible scenarios in the hope of figuring out which one is true / is more likely true. I don't understand.

[Watno]

I targeted ashersky because he told Eevee not to target him, because it's possible Eevee actually wanted to target the mailman despite saying he wouldn't. I think ashersky looked towny for revealing that he targeted Insomniac without any need to so. Also, Galz said that he had figured out his role and thought it wasn't a scum role. Plus he wasn't on the last wagon. So I thought he might be a target for a kill.

Consensus seems to be I should reveal my results, and i see nothing speaking against that: Noone targetted ftl or ashersky tonight (or at least, thats what my info says)

As day 3 begins, two players are completely covered in magenta paint. However, your special colour vision does not detect any traces of magenta paint on any other players!

Considering quotes people have pointed out, i agree its likely that galzria suicided. That invalidates the Dsell-was-blocked-killing theory.

I don't think we should kill Frisk today, because we really gotta kill mafia and im quite sure he's a SK. Note that I believe according to his role description, his kills will probably always have a different flavour (if he has lots of ways to kill, why keep using the same?), but i don't think any of the kills today match.

Regarding joth, I don't believe in this great frame that he claims is going on. The easist explanation is probably be the best, namely that joth is Mafia and did the two kills. It's possible that he didn't realize before the first kill that it would have flavour that identifies him, and then in night 2 he just didn't want to put an additional townie in danger. Also the way multiple people came out in the beginning of the day, instantly telling that joth was likely being framed looks weird to me. So I'll vote joth

[Captain_Frisk]

iPhone posting but you have a scumslip in there watno

[Watno]

Regarding joth, I don't believe in this great frame that he claims is going on. The easist explanation is probably be the best, namely that joth is Mafia and did the two kills. It's possible that he didn't realize before the first kill that it would have flavour that identifies him, and then in night 2 he just didn't want to put an additional townie mafioso in danger. Also the way multiple people came out in the beginning of the day, instantly telling that joth was likely being framed looks weird to me. So I'll vote joth

Should be this obviously.

[ashersky]

Watno's post is helpful, but I don't know what he means by me targeting Insom.  So that's odd.

I still lean toward Joth doing the vanilla kills and just redirecting attention with theories and wifom ideas.

Frisk is SK or vig, but either way, he needs to kill like a vig if he wants to survive, so I think he's worth letting live for at least another day.

Good to know Eevee didn't target me and get us killed.

Ftl is looking town to me after that last post, but I don't agree that we can ignore flavor.  Too important.

[Lekkit]

jo: Who are you suspicious of?

[Dsell]

It's possible that Jo didn't know his kill would have flavor but when everyone agreed that he must be being framed he just went for it again last night in order to continue the framing theory.

[Eevee]

Wouldn't it be super-bastardly of eHalcyon to tell two townies (archetype and Jorbles) Joth's flavor, and then dump the flavor on his kills like that without telling him?

[ftl]

wait lol 2 people just said I'm townie for that post?

Except I still haven't found the time to do the work/rereads that I said we need to do and that I said I'd do, and I keep not finding the time for it... :/ and I won't have time for it today I think, maybe tomorrow...

[Dsell]

No, it doesn't seem likely. But it is mod wifom.

The thing that gets me is that either Watno is lying or there is a ninja that's killing with an ice cream scoop. Maybe the simpler thing is to just kill Watno, except that he's reading rather town to me. Ugh...man maybe that is the best thing though.

[shraeye]

If it seems like I'm sure Frisk is a vig and you are a SK, that's not the case. Just that all the explanations I've seen presented support that theory. Wish we had Galzria here to help figure things out..

Buddy Frisk, Man that sucks tell on Galz.

Dsell's comments today have looked weird to me too. One tangent though; I think we can assume that the ice cream kills are mafia, because we've had one both nights and Frisk already took responsibility for the strangulation yesterday. So, that means that if Dsell is scum, he is a serial killer that got roleblocked yesterday*, and Frisk is the vig he claims he is. So, again, assuming we've caught the serial killer, do we want to lynch him? We could also do what we did to Frisk; instruct him to nokill / kill targets we desire. Never waste any town power roles on him, and just lynch him if he starts flying solo. Concentrate on the mafia hunt today. Idk, thoughts?

Really? It's more likely that I'm SK than the black-gloved strangler who we CAUGHT killing yesterday? Yes, it's possible he's a vig but I still think it's more likely that he's the SK, and if that's the case I'm sure he's lying about not doing a kill (since he apparently wasn't reverse-tracked this time).

Recall that I didn't even realize that I was roleblocked until halfway through yesterday when eHalc sent me a PM explaining the oversight. And even then, I couldn't confirm that I'd been roleblocked till later on in the day.

How do you explain Galzria's death flavor then? Feels important to actually try to read into the flavor in a game titled like this.. and flavor supports Frisk's claim.

More buddy.

Now don't get me wrong - you have a correct read here (at least as it pertains to me being a vig).  I'm just wondering if you believe me because it makes sense, or because you <b>know</b> its true.

These seem like thin and terrible tells.  What, just scan mafiascum tells 101 to see what applies to eevee?  Also, did you just say that eevee is the SK?  That doesn't make any sense to me, as you still look super SK.  Maybe Dsell could be with the roleblock fiasco but his explanation of the situation that I asked him for seemed legitimate to me on first read.

Oh and here you call eevee mafia,

what is it, mafia or SK?  Because obviously your awesome Man This Sucks read on Eevee is spot on so he HAS to be some kind of scum.

I guess I can sort out this beef later, because it's obvious to me that you are SK, but people are right that with so many mislynches, you have to play like a vig so are helpful to us.

[shraeye]

I targeted ashersky because he told Eevee not to target him, because it's possible Eevee actually wanted to target the mailman despite saying he wouldn't. I think ashersky looked towny for revealing that he targeted Insomniac without any need to so. Also, Galz said that he had figured out his role and thought it wasn't a scum role. Plus he wasn't on the last wagon. So I thought he might be a target for a kill.

I thought Galz said he had figured out ftl's role, not ashersky's.

[shraeye]

RobZ - if you're not trollin, do you have any last words for us?

I've given my last words over and over and over again. Something doesn't add up in the Watno department, as you will soon see. Everyone keep in mind that ftl somehow knew I was seaweed, but what does it mean? Joth/Jorbles = 1 scum, probably? Frisk sounds like SK to me. Don't ignore everyone else, but even I think these are the people to focus on.

If you're town, I agree, these are generally good reads. I've never dismissed the Jorbles/Joth situation, just didn't see a good resolution of it today. And I've maintained that it's highly likely that you or Watno was lying - so if it isn't you (despite supporting evidence)...

Also watno, I recall this happening yesterday, but I don't remember how he decuded that you or Robz was lying.  When I get time tomorrow I'm going to look deeper into this, because I didn't understand a lot of things about the actions yesterday, and I want to see if I can make more sense of things now that we know Robz was town.

[shraeye]

So we have either:

a. A liar within {joth, cayvie}
b. The ability to recharge scoops?
c.  Joth was roleblocked and as such did not use his Y scoops last night?

I know the answer to this is yes.

I do as well...but I am still trying to work out the ramifications.

I think I know something about this as well.  I'm also turning wheels about ramifications.

[jotheonah]

jo: Who are you suspicious of?

This jumped out at me:

Sorry I got semi-worked up earlier, shouldn't post when I'm hungry. I stand by everything I said, but the tone was maybe a bit out of line, my bad.

Because (1) hungry is kind of a lame excuse for rude play, but (2) I don't recall the post he's apologizing for or anyone calling him out. I think scum players, especially ones who aren't entirely comfortable with lying, can be overly critical/apologetic of their own posts often.


I also still think Watno is a very possible scum candidate. His being scum would go a long way towards answering the unanswered questions about yesterday's kill.


And then there's Dsell. I happen to believe Frisk's vig claim, and I know Jorbles roleblocked Dsell yesterday. Yet when I asked Dsell initially "Did anything happen to you?" (after Jorbles had told me in the QT but not the town what he'd done) Dsell said "nothing of note."

So, to recap:

There was no extra kill the first night (if Frisk is vig and didn't fire). There was one last night (or Galz suicided). Jorbles blocked Dsell the first night. Dsell only confirmed that he was blocked when it was clear he couldn't get out of it. So Dsell is the top scumread for me.

[Dsell]

There was no extra kill the first night (if Frisk is vig and didn't fire). There was one last night (or Galz suicided). Jorbles blocked Dsell the first night. Dsell only confirmed that he was blocked when it was clear he couldn't get out of it. So Dsell is the top scumread for me.

This is ridiculous because it is modconfirmed to the whole thread that an error was made and that I was not made aware of the strawberry ice cream until mid day.

[jotheonah]

There was no extra kill the first night (if Frisk is vig and didn't fire). There was one last night (or Galz suicided). Jorbles blocked Dsell the first night. Dsell only confirmed that he was blocked when it was clear he couldn't get out of it. So Dsell is the top scumread for me.

This is ridiculous because it is modconfirmed to the whole thread that an error was made and that I was not made aware of the strawberry ice cream until mid day.

But had you tried to kill someone and they stayed alive, that you would have known.

[Dsell]

That's a silly argument. There's really no harm in claiming I've been roleblocked if I know I've been roleblocked, especially since denying it can lead to counterclaim situations. Saying I've been roleblocked makes me look townier if anything. I didn't know I had and there was no indication that I had...until later in the day with the mod correction and the subsequent event that led me to realize that I was indeed blocked.

[jotheonah]

Ok, that makes sense. Sorry, it is the middle of the night, not thinking 100% clearly.

[jotheonah]

Though there IS harm in claiming that if you know that in subsequent days there will be a kill unaccounted for that day.

[Dsell]

Which is the worse harm, the possible immediate harm or the possible delayed harm? But I don't want to get into a WIFOM battle with you here, I just want to assure you that it is not me.

I can in fact prove it, but that would involve roleclaiming, and I'm not comfortable with doing so at this time.

[ashersky]

Who do we think Jorbles roleblocked last night?

[Dsell]

I thought cayvie already said it was her?

[ashersky]

I thought cayvie already said it was her?

Right, strawberry ice cream for her.

[ashersky]

I thought cayvie already said it was her?

Right, strawberry ice cream for her.

But why her, I wonder?

[jotheonah]

Jorbles did not use his power last night, according to eHalc in the QT.

[Dsell]

That is an odd inconsistency I'd forgotten about, and there's no reason for you to lie about it. It could be yet more flavor-stealing or some other weird situation, but it really doesn't seem to implicate anyone in particular.

[cayvie]

think someone can copy others' powers? though i don't see why anyone would use that ability to roleblock me.

hmmmm

what if the "mafia" killer can use the power of the person they kill?

[ashersky]

Jorbles did not use his power last night, according to eHalc in the QT.

Wait, you claim mod confirmation in your neighborhood QT?  Was that just now?  Overnight?  Just decided to mention it now?  You did come up with that convoluted second neighborhood theory before...

[jotheonah]

oh

i was fed strawberry ice cream last night.

That's very strange, since according to the number of scoops remaining, Jorbles didn't use his power last night.

FTR: eHalc didn't confirm or deny whether Jorbles used his power, but the number of scoops remaining is consistent with his NOT using it.

[cayvie]

Jorbles did not use his power last night, according to eHalc in the QT.

Wait, you claim mod confirmation in your neighborhood QT?  Was that just now?  Overnight?  Just decided to mention it now?  You did come up with that convoluted second neighborhood theory before...

he claimed it immediately...

[ashersky]

oh

i was fed strawberry ice cream last night.

That's very strange, since according to the number of scoops remaining, Jorbles didn't use his power last night.

FTR: eHalc didn't confirm or deny whether Jorbles used his power, but the number of scoops remaining is consistent with his NOT using it.

I can confirm that Joth is wrong, and his insistence on this is pushing a new level of scumminess.

Him saying eHal confirmed is even worse, since it isn't true.

[cayvie]

oh

i was fed strawberry ice cream last night.

That's very strange, since according to the number of scoops remaining, Jorbles didn't use his power last night.

FTR: eHalc didn't confirm or deny whether Jorbles used his power, but the number of scoops remaining is consistent with his NOT using it.

I can confirm that Joth is wrong, and his insistence on this is pushing a new level of scumminess.

Him saying eHal confirmed is even worse, since it isn't true.

i don't think insistence on pushing a disputed fact is scummy at all, actually.

[ashersky]

oh

i was fed strawberry ice cream last night.

That's very strange, since according to the number of scoops remaining, Jorbles didn't use his power last night.

FTR: eHalc didn't confirm or deny whether Jorbles used his power, but the number of scoops remaining is consistent with his NOT using it.

I can confirm that Joth is wrong, and his insistence on this is pushing a new level of scumminess.

Him saying eHal confirmed is even worse, since it isn't true.

i don't think insistence on pushing a disputed fact is scummy at all, actually.

You don't think blatantly lying (saying eHalc confirmed in the QT was a lie he clarified after I asked about it) is scummy at all?  He's pushing something multiple of us have pointed out is untrue to one level or another.  So either Joth is lying or you are lying about receiving the ice cream.

NB: I will point out I have varying amounts of suspicion regarding the others who claim to know what's up with the scoop count claim, as I don't know how we could all know the same thing.

[cayvie]

he didn't say ehalc clarified it in the qt.

he said he had mod-confirmed information that jorbles didn't shoot, information he had referred to previously: the number of scoops left.

i think you're twisting what he said pretty hard.

[ashersky]

Jorbles did not use his power last night, according to eHalc in the QT.

I read "according to" in this line as eHalc saying it in the QT.  As in eHalc told Joth in the qt that Jorbles did not use his power.  That's not twisting words, man.

If he has mod confirmation, it isn't the scoops, and he could share what it is.  If it is just the scoops, he doesn't have confirmation.

he didn't say ehalc clarified it in the qt.

he said he had mod-confirmed information that jorbles didn't shoot, information he had referred to previously: the number of scoops left.

i think you're twisting what he said pretty hard.

Jorbles didn't "shoot"?  Heck of a scum slip there.  Vote: Cayvie for that and for hardcore buddying with Joth.

[Eevee]

Joth, I get cranky when I'm hungry. Maybe it wasn't worth apologizing over, but I felt I had been unnecessarily snappy.

Where on the earth is Lekkit!? I'm on mobile, so can't conveniently check, but I feel he was nowheretobefound again and then came back just to post a five word sentence asking joth for reads. What have we learned about lurkers?

[Lekkit]

Eevee, I'm getting an ignorant vibe from you. Last week I was on vacation visiting my family in another part of the country. I even announced that and told it too you again when you asked where I was yestergameday. Then you totally disregarded that and called it out again. And now I can't even sleep without you jumping my throat for not posting.

Speaking of asking for reads, what are your's, Eevee?

[jotheonah]

ashersky, I have been forward with every piece of pro-town information I have every step of the way, with the exception of my own role, even though that forwardnes has brought me nothing but grief and suspicion, and eHalc seems to be trolling me with every piece of seemingly useful information I receive.

You and others, on the other hand, are sitting on information and dropping broad hints while the day slips away. I'm sorry my wording was unclear to you. However I am not claiming anything other than what I said before - Jorbles does not appear to have used his power based on scoops.

If you have information that explains this inconsistency, I wish you would either say it or stop talking about it.

[Lekkit]

asher, I think you missed the post earlier where jo actually said that the number of shots remaining didn't match up.

jo, Do you think scum would benefit from knowing how many shots you have left?

[jotheonah]

I'd rather not share that info.

[Captain_Frisk]

Has anyone mentioned receiving vanilla ice cream last night?

[jotheonah]

I doubt anyone will. I didn't manage to send my night action in by deadline. I thought I had sent it, but apparently I had not. Honest IRL mistake, I've been with my family in Boston and not online much a lot of the days this week.

[Lekkit]

I'd rather not share that info.

Why?

[Lekkit]

I doubt anyone will. I didn't manage to send my night action in by deadline. I thought I had sent it, but apparently I had not. Honest IRL mistake, I've been with my family in Boston and not online much a lot of the days this week.

 And why did you not tell us this before? Are you deliberately trying to confuse us?

[jotheonah]

I didn't tell you that because I wanted to AVOID confusion. Plus I didn't see why that info was helpful to town especially.

As for your other question, I'd rather not say why I'd rather not say. Stop fishing!

[Eevee]

Eevee, I'm getting an ignorant vibe from you. Last week I was on vacation visiting my family in another part of the country. I even announced that and told it too you again when you asked where I was yestergameday. Then you totally disregarded that and called it out again. And now I can't even sleep without you jumping my throat for not posting.

Speaking of asking for reads, what are your's, Eevee?

Well I mean.. it's like Grujah explained in the aftermath of wafflemafia "I was legitimately busy, but if I was town I probably would have squeezed in more posts regardless". But I don't mean to imply I don't believe you are being busy, I just mean to wish you'd contribute more. All this talk about finally starting to care about lurking, it's not like all the other silent guys didn't have reasons too.
And.. you didn't give us any reads in your last post(s) despite me asking for them? I don't mean to be unfair, but I seriously have zero idea what you are thinking.

Saying I haven't given my reads is nothing short of ridiculous, I probably have the most or almost the most posts in this game and I've been super participating in all the major discussions. In fact, town would have done better if I DIDNT build the case against archetype and really shove it down everyone's throat despite nobody listening to me at first.. (don't really feel too bad about it though, I felt the case was solid and can't succeed unless you try right?). I was really sure Galzria is town too yesterday, something people mocked me for.

Got to leave to floorball training now, but I'll give a list-type of breakdown on my feelings/reads on everyone when I'm back.

PPE: million posts, somehow forgot to hit send when I originally meant to post this.

[Lekkit]

jo, I think

In the QT, we all shared scoops - X-shots of our powers. We had X shots at the start of the night. I used Y shots. eHalc says we have X-Y shots. Ergo, mod confirmation that Jorbles did NOT use his power. Which contradicts your report.

Is a lot more confusing than admitting that you didn't use your power. Remember the whole Masqerade tracking of RMM1? I get the same feeling from you this game. The feeling that you don't want to share the remaining scoops because Archetype said how many you had to begin with, and with some deduction it could lead back to you actually scooping Ins and Jorbles. Especially with nobody alive being able to verify the remaining scoops. It's basically your word against all the evidence that points at you. And to be frank, I am a bit surprised that the whole town seems to trust you. Right now, you are one of my top suspects.

Speaking of which, Eevee is also up there. He started out towny to me, but he's been hedging a lot. Not really saying "this" or "that", but a lot of "ifs" and "possiblys". To be honest, I don't really know where you stand on most of the players alive. You've been off and on about C_F, ESPECIALLY right after he claimed, but when most of the people decided that he was probably SK you went along with that idea. I think you've mentioned Watno, someone who I actually think has done less than me in this game, aside from using his power. Other than those two, you've mentioned me as being a lurker and ashersky as being scummy (something you've completely dropped since day 1). All your other reads that I can remember after skimming through the entire thread last night are reads of players who are now dead. So, I don't think it's unfair of me to ask you where you stand on the players alive.

Also, I've tried to find where you asked me for my reads, and haven't found it. Could you direct me, because I seem to miss it even when looking for it.

[jotheonah]

I don't know how many ways I can say "stop fishing."

[Lekkit]

My last post wasn't intended as role-/flavor- fishing. I only wanted you to know why I did it. I can accept that you don't want to share that, but I want you to know that by doing so you seem more scummy to me.

[jotheonah]

As soon as someone asked, I shared that I didn't use my power. I did not try to conceal that info.

[Captain_Frisk]

So we have either:

a. A liar within {joth, cayvie}
b. The ability to recharge scoops?
c.  Joth was roleblocked and as such did not use his Y scoops last night?

So we've had 3 people claim to know that one of these things is true?  Joth has now claimed that Y = 0 - so the C is now out - correct?  Not trying to fish - but if someone has proof of A - then we can have a much more focused discussion. 

[Lekkit]

Try to look at it from my perspective: You guys had 7 scoops to begin with. Jorbles ussed 1 according to you. Archetype didn't use any. Nobody has admitted to being fed Vanilla Ice Cream. That should leave you with 6 scoops. Unless you targeted people who are dead. Which would leave you with either 4 or 5 scoops. If it's 4, it would certainly point to you as some kind of killer, be it a Vig, SK or some weird Mafia role. If you say something else and it turns out that the spirit medium is able to channel thoughts from someone else in the Dead persons' QT to someone alive, it would be worse if it turned out to actually be 4. So you not telling us how many scoops you have left sounds really scummy to me.

And the fact that you didn't say "In the QT, we all shared scoops - X-shots of our powers. We had X shots at the start of the night. I didn't use any shots, and X is still X. Ergo, mod confirmation that Jorbles did NOT use his power. Which contradicts your report." but rather "In the QT, we all shared scoops - X-shots of our powers. We had X shots at the start of the night. I used Y shots. eHalc says we have X-Y shots. Ergo, mod confirmation that Jorbles did NOT use his power. Which contradicts your report." makes it sound like you wanted us to think that you might have used your power. While it isn't a lie it's still twisting the truth to sound like something else. If you didn't really mind sharing that you didn't use your power, why would you not say that from the beginning?

[jotheonah]

I picked that wording very carefully, because it's totally true. Y just happens to equal zero.

Anyway, I thought that would distract from the point at hand. People would zero in on it and say "Why didn't you use your power?" and then I would tell them and they might not believe me, and it was more important to me to focus on cayvie's claim and it's inconsistency with my knowledge.

I had forgotten that Archetype already shared the total number of scoops. Damn.

I believe that a town player who is X-shot should always conceal that info so scum has a WIFOM about whether they have shots left. I forgot that Archetype had already deprived me of that option.

There were 7 scoops to start. Jorbles and I each used one Night one. On Day 2, eHalc said there were five remaining. At the start of today, eHalc confirmed there were still 5 remaining. I didn't use mine.

[Captain_Frisk]

@Lekkit

Started with 7 per Archtype

Galz received Vanilla Night 1 - 6 scoops
DSell gets strawberry Night 1 - 5 scoops
Nobody gets Vanilla Night 1 - 5 scoops
Cayvie (allegedly) gets strawberry Night 1 - 4 scoops

Joth claims that Jorbles didn't use power implies 5 scoops remaining.  It's not hard to work out.  Unless Archtype had a day power that we don't know about that used scoops. 

Possibilities:

1. Cayvie is lying - unlikely given that DSell confirms verbiage of scoop delivery.
2. There is indeed a separate set of ice cream delivery men - who didn't send scoops night 1.
3. Joth is lying (to what aim I have no idea)
4. Someone else somehow gave them additional scoops.  I can't imagine who would do such a thing since I wouldn't view either of them as especially townie, but it's possible.

PPE: Joth now posted.

[Lekkit]

Forgot that Galz got vanilla night 1. My point still stands. It's pretty easy to figure out how many scoops there should be left. If jo truly had forgotten about Archetype fullclaiming, shots included, it would make sense for him not to say how many he had left. Thing is, I din't really think anyone would forget that.

[jotheonah]

Well, what I had in my head was "he claimed all the shared stuff, but I still know all my stuff." But for some reason I was mentally classifying my number of shots as "my stuff."

[shraeye]

jo: Who are you suspicious of?

This jumped out at me:

Sorry I got semi-worked up earlier, shouldn't post when I'm hungry. I stand by everything I said, but the tone was maybe a bit out of line, my bad.

Because (1) hungry is kind of a lame excuse for rude play, but (2) I don't recall the post he's apologizing for or anyone calling him out. I think scum players, especially ones who aren't entirely comfortable with lying, can be overly critical/apologetic of their own posts often.


I also still think Watno is a very possible scum candidate. His being scum would go a long way towards answering the unanswered questions about yesterday's kill.


And then there's Dsell. I happen to believe Frisk's vig claim, and I know Jorbles roleblocked Dsell yesterday. Yet when I asked Dsell initially "Did anything happen to you?" (after Jorbles had told me in the QT but not the town what he'd done) Dsell said "nothing of note."

So, to recap:

There was no extra kill the first night (if Frisk is vig and didn't fire). There was one last night (or Galz suicided). Jorbles blocked Dsell the first night. Dsell only confirmed that he was blocked when it was clear he couldn't get out of it. So Dsell is the top scumread for me.

I find myself agreeing with your take on Watno and I'm surprised by this rudeness from Eevee  who is normally very nice (small wonder he gets accused of buddying all the time).  I think I will try to reread these people later today.  I'm confused about Dsell, he's acting really suspicious to me, but all the arguments people are making are that he's the SK it seems?  That confuses me, as I still don't see how Frisk's vig kill was believable.  Could Dsell be mafia, or is he SK in your eyes?  It feels like the ice-cream kills are mafia, so if Dsell was roleblocked day 1, I don't know how that kill went off.

 Oh dear, I just realized as I typed that above that strongman kills are possible.  I know strongman goes through protection, but does it also go through roleblocks?  That may explain why Dsell didn't even realize he was 'roleblocked' until it was pointed out that he should have been.  But it doesn't explain watno's tracking results at all.  I guess all this does keep coming back to what the heck happened with watno's tracking results.

[Eevee]

Lekkit, I had a humongous scum read on archetype, the town followed and we lynched him. I was pretty sure Robz was scum, we lynched him too. I was pretty sure Galzria was town, he got nightkilled. Sure, 2/3 of my reads have been wrong, but I've certainly had some and I've been vocal about them. How can you say I'm hedging when two of my biggest scum reads have simply gotten lynched, partially because I more or less heavily pushed them?

Frisk<->Dsell, I think it's likely one of them is the serial killer. I've analyzed this numerous times, and I no one has helped me reach a conclusion but I guess it doesn't as long as we instruct the SK to kill desirable targets. I don't think Frisk can be mafia, so I don't support his lynch. Dsell could be I guess (am I forgetting something?), so that's why I'm slightly more anti-Dsell. Yesterday I agreed with Galz that either Joth or Jorbles is probably scum, and thought it was more likely to be Jorbles. Now that Jorb is dead, I don't know. Joth reads towny to me (gutread), and I just can't believe the mod would make Joth's kill flavor like that and then tell two townies (the neighborhood) he is the vanilla ice cream. That's simply not possible, at least eHalc should have given Joth the heads up that he's a mafia that can never kill or something. So, I don't support the joth lynch, and guess we probably just had a neighborhood full of townies. Joth was also a townread from early day 1, I even tried to help him catch back up then.

Ashersky felt weird to me yesterday, I don't even remember why / it has disappeared. He seems to be genuinely interested in solving the setup now, and the bigger reason is that he seems to be the guy my role pm mentions and that guy doesn't sound like anything scum-aligned (this isn't 100%, he could be but sounds more like town to me). Ftl I don't remember a whole lot of (where scum wants to be maybe?), but I made a note about a post of his that read towny to me (and said it in this thread, someone agreed with me). Shraeye always reads scummy to me, but maybe less so than usual here so that's worth noting but I don't know. I don't remember much of his opinions either, which is definitely scummy. Watno posts rarely, and usually when he does it's information about his night results. Now, we can assume he is indeed the watcher because he caught Frisk, but I don't know if that could be a scum role as well. Maybe? I don't oppose his lynch, because of the missing tracking result from night 1 (pretty big actually), but meh. There could be some other explanation.. No particular town read on cayvie (haven't seen her as scum in a game normalish like this), but have no reason to suspect her either. She has been trying to solve the setup with I appreciate. Her mini-spat with joth is weird because I think joth is town and don't really see any reason for either to lie about that.

I guess I put my money where my mouth is, Vote: Lekkit. Not sold at all on this, but I don't like not voting and at least this vote shows I don't support the joth wagon some of you seem to want to build. I encourage others to vote their biggest scum read too, you don't have to be sure about it because changing votes is rather easy. Voting patterns are the most useful thing to analyze in later days, we shouldn't let scum skate by without going on record.

[Eevee]

To my understanding strongman goes through absolutely anything.

I feel I've been rude in both games I played lately. Don't know why that is, I'll try to work on finding my mellow again. Maybe it's the new avatar?

[shraeye]

I thought cayvie already said it was her?

I'm a little confused about why Jorbles roleblocked cayvie.  I had a slight scumread on cayvie during day 1, but after the rolemadness fiasco that was day 2, cayvie really fell off my radar.  It seems like there were much better candidates for roleblocking.

[Lekkit]

Eevee: First you say you don't hedge, then you vote for me while saying that a vote could easily be changed, and therefore it's encouraged. To me, that is hedging at it's peak. You've been suspecting pretty much everyone at some point, and I think you've voted for most of the players. Maybe I've got the hedging term wrong, and what I really mean is that you can't really make up your mind.

Also, this struck me as REALLY weird.

Yesterday I agreed with Galz that either Joth or Jorbles is probably scum, and thought it was more likely to be Jorbles. Now that Jorb is dead, I don't know.

Yesterday I agreed with Galz that Joth or Jorbles is probably scum. But only if Jorbles was scum.

What makes you think that jo is framed rather than pulling a stunt on us?

[Captain_Frisk]

What makes you think that jo is framed rather than pulling a stunt on us?

Have we ever caught scum pulling a stunt?  Has scum ever pulled something outrageous and gotten away with it?

[Captain_Frisk]

Although, I do kindof feel like Joth is floundering here.

[jotheonah]

What makes you think that jo is framed rather than pulling a stunt on us?

Have we ever caught scum pulling a stunt?  Has scum ever pulled something outrageous and gotten away with it?

This is not the first time this accusation has been levelled against me. I can't help but take it as a compliment every time, that people think I am badass enough to play this way as scum. I'm not.

[Eevee]

Eevee: First you say you don't hedge, then you vote for me while saying that a vote could easily be changed, and therefore it's encouraged. To me, that is hedging at it's peak. You've been suspecting pretty much everyone at some point, and I think you've voted for most of the players. Maybe I've got the hedging term wrong, and what I really mean is that you can't really make up your mind.

Also, this struck me as REALLY weird.

Yesterday I agreed with Galz that either Joth or Jorbles is probably scum, and thought it was more likely to be Jorbles. Now that Jorb is dead, I don't know.

Yesterday I agreed with Galz that Joth or Jorbles is probably scum. But only if Jorbles was scum.

What makes you think that jo is framed rather than pulling a stunt on us?

Can someone else give their opinion, are Lekkit's accusations making ANY sense? I don't know why he's locked in on me like this.. extra-mega OMGUS for suspecting him first?

SO MUCH in your post is so blatantly obviously 100% false, I don't even know if you are intentionally making stuff up or what but wow.
Day 1, I voted Dsell in RVS to prod him to post more, then alternated between ashersky and archetype for a while (showing they are my two scum reads), then archetype went a bit crazy and I locked on him super hard, stuck my neck out to get him lynched in the most unhedgy way I can imagine, got everyone to follow me (no one suspected him before I started repeatedly asking people to reconsider!!) and we lynched him. I was obviously wrong about him, but I was VERY sure up until the flip that we caught mafia.

Day 2, I don't remember the flailing in the beginning, I recall suspecting Jorbles like I said and voting for him, until Galzria presented his Robz-case which I really bought and argued for (I'd say I was the 2nd most vocal Robz-suspector after Galzria). Again, I had a strong scum read that wound up getting lynched (and wrong again doh), but again WHERE IS THE HEDGING? I locked on a target early and didn't even talk about voting for anyone else after that.

Today, I've voted for you. HOW HAVE I VOTED FOR ALMOST EVERYBODY!?

I've also given the reason I don't suspect joth anymore like three times, last in the post you just replied to. This is not a bastard game. If joth was mafia, and knew in advance his kill flavor would be like that, he obviously wouldn't have been the one to make the kill because archetype and Jorbles knew he was the vanilla ice cream. So, for Joth to be mafia, eHalcyon, our non-bastard mod, would have needed to make joth's kills super-obvious to not one but TWO townies without warning him about it at all. That's simply too bastardly to be possible. IF JOTH WAS MAFIA, HE WAS DOOMED TO BE CAUGHT THE FIRST TIME HE MADE THEIR FACTIONAL KILL, HOW IS THAT NORMAL MAFIA? Would eHalc put a role like that in a normal game? No way. I didn't think of this until today, and because Jorbles was obviously town, I'm now forced to abandon the belief of there being scum in the ice cream neighborhood. How is considering new evidence hedgy? (and oh hedging if i was doing it wouldn't even be a scumtell imo in my case, it's not like I've been trying to distance myself from the lynches!? I've freaking tried to make them happen with all my power! Not going to present you the wifom-argument of "would i have been that confident as scum", because it's pretty meh, and you can't really know which it is, even though i do think i would have been waaay to scared to try to pull a stunt like that as scum, TWICE. But, not being 100% sure about stuff is pretty towny behavior don't you think? maybe you forgot because yourself know who is mafia and who isn't?)

Anyone else, care to weigh in on my debate with Lekkit? I think he is being super-unreasonable and don't quite frankly see why he would push so obviously false arguments against me if he was town!?

[Captain_Frisk]

Joth didn't have to disclose his flavor of ice cream to his buddies - didn't someone say they all voluntarily disclosed?  He could have told them he was pistachio.

Personally - I'm still feeling that DSell is more likely. 

[Eevee]

Joth didn't have to disclose his flavor of ice cream to his buddies - didn't someone say they all voluntarily disclosed?  He could have told them he was pistachio.

Personally - I'm still feeling that DSell is more likely.

Yeah, that would have been believable. There is a vanilla ice cream killer running amok, but no chocolate ice cream and strawberry ice cream never thought of suspecting the guy who claimed pistachio!

And the point even stands, at the very least eHalcyon would have given him a heads up and told him to lie.

Dsell is more likely what?

[Watno]

As people have noticed, there was another mistake in my last post. I should really stop posting in the middle of the night after breaking my head over complex analysis exercises for hours. (Or rather do those exercises earlier). fixed version below:

I targeted ashersky because he told Eevee not to target him, because it's possible Eevee actually wanted to target the mailman despite saying he wouldn't. I think ashersky ftl looked towny for revealing that he targeted Insomniac without any need to so. Also, Galz said that he had figured out his role and thought it wasn't a scum role. Plus he wasn't on the last wagon. So I thought he might be a target for a kill.

There was no extra kill the first night (if Frisk is vig and didn't fire). There was one last night (or Galz suicided). Jorbles blocked Dsell the first night. Dsell only confirmed that he was blocked when it was clear he couldn't get out of it. So Dsell is the top scumread for me.

This is ridiculous because it is modconfirmed to the whole thread that an error was made and that I was not made aware of the strawberry ice cream until mid day.

But had you tried to kill someone and they stayed alive, that you would have known.

This does't make sense. It says that your theory is possible, but in no way makes it the only option that might be true.

[...]
I can confirm that Joth is wrong, and his insistence on this is pushing a new level of scumminess.

But in one of your next posts you say either cayvie or joth are lying. Was this one just a joke?

he didn't say ehalc clarified it in the qt.

he said he had mod-confirmed information that jorbles didn't shoot, information he had referred to previously: the number of scoops left.

i think you're twisting what he said pretty hard.

Jorbles didn't "shoot"?  Heck of a scum slip there.  Vote: Cayvie for that and for hardcore buddying with Joth.

How is that a scumslip? Jorbles flipped town, so he can't be cayvie's scumbuddy.

ashersky, I have been forward with every piece of pro-town information I have every step of the way, with the exception of my own role, even though that forwardnes has brought me nothing but grief and suspicion, and eHalc seems to be trolling me with every piece of seemingly useful information I receive.

Now this what I think might be a scumslip. If your role is pro-town information, why don't you share it? It sounds a bit like you being scum saying "I pretend being town so hard, and people still don't believe me "

After reading Lekkit's last posts again, I find it strange that he first accuses Eeve of not letting him know where he stands on the players alive, then he accuses him of suspecting everyone and falsely claims Eevee had voted nearly everyone. However I think giving wrong information in that way isn't really scummy, because it can easily be falsified. Still a bit suspicious because of the contradiction.

I don't think joth acciddentaly killing without being aware it has his flavour isn't as improbable as Eevee makes it sounds. In a game with a focus on flavor, if mafia gets to choose who does the kill, i don't think it would be bastardly if it had their flavour. I rather think it would be bastardly if the title of the game says we should care about flavour and it's possible to misslead us using flavor this much.

[jotheonah]

You're seriously asking why I haven't role-claimed?

[Dsell]

Ok, I'm gonna semi-reveal now. I'm very curious about what Ashersky and Shraeye have to say too.

Please bear with me here and trust that I am revealing as much pro-town info as I can without being anti-town.

I know that Jo has lied in this game. I do not believe that I should say what he's lied about or how I know it. But he HAS lied.

Everything surrounding jo is very odd though. The flavor makes it seem too obvious, and it means that he's been gambitting somewhat at least since day 2. It also means that if he is mafia, he cannibalized his own neighborhood, which simultaneously makes sense (he has more shots) and doesn't (because Jorbles was suspected). Basically, everything that everyone has pointed out about how it doesn't make sense for Jo to be mafia seems true...and yet I know that he's lied.

There's also the fact that he was in a neighborhood, and when have you ever seen a non-mason neighborhood where all the people were town? It's easy to get lost in all the details of the role madness and forget simple things like that.

I didn't reveal this information earlier because of some strange quirks that don't mitigate the fact that he was lying but make me curious about the setup in general, and his role specifically. But the bottom line is that he lied. So I'm absolutely going to Vote: Jotheonah and urge others to do the same without pressing me for more information.

As far as other game happenings go, I am a bit lost. The whole eevee-Lekkit thing makes eevee look a little bad, I think, but Lekkit has been lurking. I got nothing on FTL this game, I'd almost forgot he was playing again. Frankly, I really miss Galz being here and posting analyses that would contain relevant info about the game and strong reads. I also wish we knew what the heck his role did and whether or not it really killed him, because that would be super nice for clearing me personally! XD

Btw, Jo should be able to understand why I KNOW this to be true, but I hope he realizes how very anti-town of him it would be to reveal how I know. So if you decide to out me, jo, I am going to take that as admitting your mafia-ness.

[Captain_Frisk]

That's a very nice catch-22 you've set up there DSell.

Joth has seemed kindof strange today - so I'll join.

Vote: Joth

[Dsell]

That's a very nice catch-22 you've set up there DSell.

I'm really not being very fair to jo, I realize! But he's a liar so it's ok. Trust me that this is the pro-town thing to do.

[Eevee]

Very interesting info on jot, need to hear his rebuttal before making my mind though. At the moment I'm thinking "Joth wouldn't lie as town, and Dsell has no reason to lie", but the reasons I earlier listed that make me think Joth is town are obviously contradicting all this.

Dsell, mind expanding why my exchange with Lekkit makes melook bad? I'm quite surprised, because I think his accusations were totally baseless and made no sense whatsoever.

[Eevee]

That's a very nice catch-22 you've set up there DSell.

I'm really not being very fair to jo, I realize! But he's a liar so it's ok. Trust me that this is the pro-town thing to do.

So no chance you're mistaken, and the thing you know joth lied about isn't one he could possibly lie about as town?
Saying things like "trust me it's the pro-town thing to do" makes me really believe Dsell though.. He has nothing to gain from lying here, he'd just be tomorrow's lynch if joth flipped town..

[jotheonah]

I have no idea what Dsell is talking about. Whatever he thinks I know about what he knows, I don't.

[Dsell]

Yesterday I agreed with Galz that either Joth or Jorbles is probably scum, and thought it was more likely to be Jorbles. Now that Jorb is dead, I don't know.

Yesterday I agreed with Galz that Joth or Jorbles is probably scum. But only if Jorbles was scum.

What makes you think that jo is framed rather than pulling a stunt on us?

Can someone else give their opinion, are Lekkit's accusations making ANY sense? I don't know why he's locked in on me like this.. extra-mega OMGUS for suspecting him first?
[/quote]

I thought that Lekkit's point here was really strong but then you totally derided it as crazy and 100% false. It's a great point and an inconsistency on your part. I know you've listed all these other things that make Jo look townie, and I agree to an extent, but your best response to Lekkit's point here was that you "didn't think of this until today."

[jotheonah]

he'd just be tomorrow's lynch if joth flipped town..

I do hope someone will hold you to that.

[shraeye]

Eevee: First you say you don't hedge, then you vote for me while saying that a vote could easily be changed, and therefore it's encouraged. To me, that is hedging at it's peak. You've been suspecting pretty much everyone at some point, and I think you've voted for most of the players. Maybe I've got the hedging term wrong, and what I really mean is that you can't really make up your mind.

Also, this struck me as REALLY weird.

Yesterday I agreed with Galz that either Joth or Jorbles is probably scum, and thought it was more likely to be Jorbles. Now that Jorb is dead, I don't know.

Yesterday I agreed with Galz that Joth or Jorbles is probably scum. But only if Jorbles was scum.

What makes you think that jo is framed rather than pulling a stunt on us?

I agree with Eevee here, this case makes very little sense.  Joth has pointed out that Eevee is actiing weirdly, so I'm suspicious of Eevee, but even with that suspicion already in place, this just looks like a terrible argument/case on Eevee.

[Dsell]

Oops, I screwed up the quotes, my bad.

I am surprised that Jo doesn't seem to know what I'm talking about, but the fact that he wants you guys to lynch me tomorrow seems telling...

[Captain_Frisk]

That's a very nice catch-22 you've set up there DSell.

I'm really not being very fair to jo, I realize! But he's a liar so it's ok. Trust me that this is the pro-town thing to do.

So no chance you're mistaken, and the thing you know joth lied about isn't one he could possibly lie about as town?
Saying things like "trust me it's the pro-town thing to do" makes me really believe Dsell though.. He has nothing to gain from lying here, he'd just be tomorrow's lynch if joth flipped town..

That's my feeling as well (and hence the vote).  Obviously I'm interested in Joth's story, because of my DSell == Roleblocked Killer theory, but he didn't have nearly enough pressure to start claiming anything.  If he's wrong - I can of course strangle his ass overnight if we agree that makes sense, or we can seriously talk about stringing him up tomorrow.

[Captain_Frisk]

So Joth - you are denying the accusation?

[jotheonah]

that I've lied? Yes, I am denying that. That I'm scum? Yes, I'm denying that. That I know what the hell Dsell is talking about? Yep, I'm denying that too.

[Lekkit]

@Eevee: I went back and checked on your voting, and you're right. I did get that wrong. However, since day 1, you've come off as really indecisive to me, which I even commented on.

Another thing I've noticed about you this game is that if someone says something against you go on a full assault. It may be the tone I'm misenterprating, but you come off as really aggressive. I could be the only one who sees it this way, and if that's the case I'm sorry. It could also be none of us being native English speakers. But still, I feel like a female boar with small boar children in danger is less aggressive than you are. (A slight exaggeragation and meant as a joke, btw).

[jotheonah]

The ice cream neighborhood was a neighborhood of town PRs. Two of those PRs are gone and beyond the town's usefulness. There is one left. Please don't lynch it.

[Dsell]

Well I did not expect this to be so one way!

Maybe Jo honestly doesn't realize what I'm referring to but the fact he's denying that he knows what I'm talking about makes me even more suspicious, like he's just gonna deny everything now. Oh well. I reckon he's mafia at this point.

[jotheonah]

You guys really find "he's scum but I can't tell you why" a compelling case? If so, then God help this town. Give me an accusation, Dsell, and I'll defend against it. Against that vague nonsense, what am I supposed to do?

[jotheonah]

I'm wracking my brain trying to think of a mistake I could have made in things I've reported. Dsell, maybe if you made a list of claims I've made, including the one you consider to be a lie, I could work out which one you're confused about.

[Captain_Frisk]

You guys really find "he's scum but I can't tell you why" a compelling case? If so, then God help this town. Give me an accusation, Dsell, and I'll defend against it. Against that vague nonsense, what am I supposed to do?

It's not so much that its super compelling, but that DSell is obvScum if you're town. 

[Dsell]

The accusation is that you've lied. You know you've lied. I also know that there's something different about you than the other ice cream neighborhood people.

And revealing more is bad for the town.

[Dsell]

Also, I KNOW my information is not faulty.

[jotheonah]

I'm still alive? I have a different power and a different flavor?

[Dsell]

I'm still alive? I have a different power and a different flavor?

One more thing!

[jotheonah]

Seriously, screw this. I can't possibly defend against the level of modtrolling that appears to have been leveled against me, or against entirely contentless accusations.

[Dsell]

Ugh, I miss Galz. He was good at figuring things like this out.

[Lekkit]

What is it with eHal's games and Dsell and jo trying to prove each other liars?

[Dsell]

What is it with eHal's games and Dsell and jo trying to prove each other liars?

Ha! Good point!

You have lied though Joth...

[jotheonah]

In that game, we were both scum.

[Captain_Frisk]

In that game, we were both scum.

Are you insinuating that the same is true in this game?

[Dsell]

In that game, we were both scum.

That's true. Not the case here though.

[jotheonah]

Vote: Dsell

[Dsell]

That's a straight-up OMGUS right there.

[jotheonah]

Yeah, group, if you were a town-player telling the truth about everything and Dsell started talking like he's talking now, what would you think of him? I have no choice but to believe you're scum, even if it doesn't make any sense.

Dsell: Did you click and save the QT link when Archetype illegally posted it? Is that where you're proposing to catch me in a lie?

[Dsell]

Yeah, group, if you were a town-player telling the truth about everything and Dsell started talking like he's talking now, what would you think of him? I have no choice but to believe you're scum, even if it doesn't make any sense.

Dsell: Did you click and save the QT link when Archetype illegally posted it? Is that where you're proposing to catch me in a lie?

Definitely not.

[Captain_Frisk]

[Eevee]

@Eevee: I went back and checked on your voting, and you're right. I did get that wrong. However, since day 1, you've come off as really indecisive to me, which I even commented on.

Another thing I've noticed about you this game is that if someone says something against you go on a full assault. It may be the tone I'm misenterprating, but you come off as really aggressive. I could be the only one who sees it this way, and if that's the case I'm sorry. It could also be none of us being native English speakers. But still, I feel like a female boar with small boar children in danger is less aggressive than you are. (A slight exaggeragation and meant as a joke, btw).

I'm really surprised about the "indecisiveness", but if you all agree sure. I just don't know where? I first tunneled archetype, then Robz (with a town read on Galzria), today I don't have a case I find that compelling but Lekkit is my biggest scum read. Is it because I listed my thoughts on everyone and didn't have a lot on many guys? Because if that's it, I challenge anyone to do it and not have some nullreads in there. It's just bound to happen, and if you are accusing me for that when no one else has done it, it's not really fair.
Yeah, I don't mean to come off that aggressive (and don't think I have until today). Idk what's up with me and angry posting, as I said got to work on that. Here I just got worked up because it's no fun to be falsely accused. And I'm still rather confused about the "case" you think you have on me that Dsell leans on agreeing with.

[Dsell]

That is hilarious and super perfect for the situation.

Jo knows what's going on here but is still denying it. The thing is, he lied. And there is NO good excuse for doing that. It spreads misinformation and is unacceptable as town. And I think he knows this. Therefore, I'm forced to deduce that he's scum who didn't think he'd be caught.

[Eevee]

Question to both Joth and Dsell:
Do you see any scenario where you are both town? Joth's reaction reads genuine to me, but Dsell lying about something like that makes zero sense.

[Dsell]

Jo knows what's going on here but is still denying it. The thing is, he lied.

I should say, he lied and is continuing to lie.

[Dsell]

Question to both Joth and Dsell:
Do you see any scenario where you are both town? Joth's reaction reads genuine to me, but Dsell lying about something like that makes zero sense.

That is only possible if Joth is lying as town.

[jotheonah]

I honestly have zero idea what this lunatic is talking about. He can keep saying I do, but it won't make it true.

Could we both be town? I suppose we could, if he eHalcyon is a total bastard mod, which, at this point it kinda seems like he is.

[Dsell]

Oh my word. Obvscum.

You could at least say "Yeah I know what he means but I won't reveal more."

Sheesh.

[Eevee]

I honestly have zero idea what this lunatic is talking about. He can keep saying I do, but it won't make it true.

Could we both be town? I suppose we could, if he eHalcyon is a total bastard mod, which, at this point it kinda seems like he is.

The only reason I'm inclined to believe you is the fact that I don't think eHalc is a bastard mod. Think back on all the things you've said in this game, maybe you accidentally lied somewhere? Dsell, can you reveal if it's something Joth could have accidentally lied about?

[jotheonah]

Oh my word. Obvscum.

You could at least say "Yeah I know what he means but I won't reveal more."

Sheesh.

But I don't! I don't know what you mean! I really and truly have no idea! What makes you so sure I know?

[Eevee]

Oh my word. Obvscum.

You could at least say "Yeah I know what he means but I won't reveal more."

Sheesh.

But I don't! I don't know what you mean! I really and truly have no idea! What makes you so sure I know?

Fishing is a lovely way to spend your leisure time.

[jotheonah]

Seriously, I have better things to do than argue with a brick wall. If you guys really find this convincing, then lynch me and gg scum. Otherwise, let's talk about something productive.

[Dsell]

Absolutely jo's lie was not an accident.

[jotheonah]

You know what? Fine.

I am going to spam the thread by quoting every single post I've made this game and evaluating/reiterating it's truth-value to try to find Dsell's phantom lie. It will not be fun for any of us, but that's what it's come down to.

[jotheonah]

so in

This is the most where I decide to play this game. It is true; I was and am "in."

[eHalcyon]

On a somewhat different note...

I do not want there to be any mod WIFOM if I can help it.  This is not a bastard game and I have done my best not to hide anything from anyone about their role (compare with RMM1 where some secrets were kept from Galz, which was a mistake on my part). 

Specific to earlier arguments -- some were speculating that possibly jo killed with "ice cream scoop" flavour but did not know that flavour would be made public.  This is NOT the case.  So your remaining possibilities are:

- jo does not have a kill
- jo has a kill and knew how it would be flavoured

[jotheonah]

I think I'm in 4 games now. WHAT HAVE I DONE.

I was, in fact, in four games at this time. ZM2, this game, Robz' game, and Volt's game.

[jotheonah]

I am vanilla town - I think we should random Vote.

Vote: Captain_Frisk

bitter, are we?

In this post I'm asking Frisk a question. The sentiment is sincere.

[jotheonah]

Fun fact: I had a Watcher role that was inspired by BMV.  The player would select music (via a youtube video) and the target and anyone who targeted that target would hear the music.  It was a super weak Watcher role because if the player simply didn't mention hearing the music, they would not be "seen".  It would be funny because they could troll people by playing Darth Vader music.  But since Jigglypuff was a lot more like that than I expected, that role is being replaced.

I'll get out of your brain now

This is clearly humor. I am not telepathic and cannot read the mods brain (though right now I wish I could!)

[jotheonah]

I just finished rereading AND rewatching Harry Potter. So I am so ready.

This is true!

[jotheonah]

1/5 for sooner

I really did want the game to start sooner. Let's skip ahead to when the game actually starts.

[jotheonah]

I wonder how the cleaning of common rooms is accomplished. This is a very odd game.

I was wondering that at the time. I think the oddness of the game is not in question at this point. I rate both statements true.

[jotheonah]

I don't think -74- is the code. I think the number 74 was just inserted in the middle of a "--"

True. The person who worked out the hexidecimal can tell me if I was right, but I confirm that I thought that.

[jotheonah]

here's the list re-ordered numerically/ alphabetically:

20
20
20
2e
4e
65
65
65
68
69
6e
6f
6f
73
74

...can we start playing mafia now?

This list is correctly ordered and omits nothing.

[jotheonah]

I preferred the poem.

I greatly enjoy poetry, especially eHalcs. TRUE.

[jotheonah]

'Sup guys!

No random lynch, please!

Obvcsum. Vote: Dsell

Ok, here we go. This one was a joke. I didn't actually think you were obvscum at the time. Is this the lie, Dsell?

[shraeye]

Question to both Joth and Dsell:
Do you see any scenario where you are both town? Joth's reaction reads genuine to me, but Dsell lying about something like that makes zero sense.

This really sums up my feelings here.  I can't figure out why Dsell is genuinely convinced that joth is lying and that joth is genuinely convinced that Dsell is just spouting stuff.  Neither of the sides of the debate sound fake or manufactured, yet they are directly opposed.  I really have no idea what's going on here, but I'm going to reread both of you.  It seems that one person must be telling the truth and the other is a really gifted liar.  I'm going to see what other posts you both have made to try and sort out who is scum and who is town.  It really doesn't seem to me like they can both be town.

[jotheonah]

'Sup guys!

No random lynch, please!

Obvcsum. Vote: Dsell

Scared of people who back up shraeye's opinion, yet not gutsy enough to vote shraeye, eh?

Actually I missed all the posts between 136 and 139 some how.

Also, yes, shraeye, I'm utterly terrified of you.

First sentence: True. Second sentence: False, but clearly a joke.

[jotheonah]

Odin's Magic Guitar's Unused Strings.

Oh wait, I don't think I know how this game works.

O Makes Galzria Understandably Snarky.

This is more humor. But the statements are true.

[jotheonah]

I have mod confirmation that there are spoons.

People took this as a joke, but it was true! Ice cream scoops = spoons, basically.

[jotheonah]

I don't think Robz plays scum the way most people play scum.

I don't think Robz plays scum the way most people play scum.

How do I play scum? How do most people play scum??

You seem to be willing to take big risks purely to avoid standard scum play. Even on Day 1. High risk, high reward. But it just means that I'm going to be less swayed by "Scum would never..." arguments when they're applied to you.

I stand by these observations of RObz's play.

[jotheonah]

I'm all for Vote: Voltaire. Let's actually lynch a lurker for once instead of just talking about it.

This wasn't a terrible idea. Voltaire is now Lekkit and he's lurking less.

[jotheonah]

Oh yeah, totally just a joke. Not very funny.

Sorry I've been sort of absent today. Trying to get work done + season premieres night.

Aha! THis must be it. I said that the modconfirmation (of spoons) was just a joke. I had forgotten I said that. But when ftl made a big deal out of it I didn't want to blow my breadcrumb into a full claim without cause, so I said it was just a joke. If this is the big lie, I definitely see why Dsell thinks I should be lynched for it.

[shraeye]

I see you have at least 100 posts.  This is going to be an interesting ride.  I'm going to go reread some people.

[jotheonah]

I was sort of expecting someone to cut me off by now. But if that's not going to happen, I guess I'll do the rest in a single post rather than continuing to spam.

[Eevee]

I was sort of expecting someone to cut me off by now. But if that's not going to happen, I guess I'll do the rest in a single post rather than continuing to spam.

Nah I would never interrupt someone who's pulling an ehunt.

[shraeye]

I'm trying to hunt for the possible-lie as well.  I can't figure out who's telling the truth here.

[jotheonah]

Yeah, that's the meaning I meant, sort of. Voltaire got to a few votes and joth was like "OK let's lynch him now! Vote".

Which would have been scummy were Voltaire remotely close to being lynched.

It would have. He wasn't.

Vote: ashersky

for two absolutely junk arguments in a row.

absolute junk. true.

cayvie never says she knows how many scum there are. The post is clearly a joke. She's making fun of our code-breaking, so she claims to have found scum using the code. Only, oops, it lands on her. She picked 3 because there were 3 20s in the code. it's just not remotely a slip.

Now I have only played a few games with town ashersky, but you've always been cautious with your votes. Suddenly you're throwing them around on the flimsiest basis imaginable. So I'm happy with a vote on you.

All of these things are true.

Now I have only played a few games with town ashersky, but you've always been cautious with your votes. Suddenly you're throwing them around on the flimsiest basis imaginable. So I'm happy with a vote on you.

Really? In MX he voted willy nilly and almost got himself lynched as the doctor.

I did not play in that game. I'm working off BMV (where, granted, he had a post restriction) and ZM2 (where he had a power role and used it quite well).

This is all a matter of record.

The Fire Nation is an Avatar: The Last Airbender reference. I sort of doubt it's relevant, but you never know.

Also a matter of record.

For some reason I'm having this problem lately I've never had before where it's hard to stop myself from transferring my reads from one game over to another game. Which makes me very wary of making my reads public on people who are major players in other ongoing games.

I'm not going to say any more on that point for obvious reasons, but keep it in mind if I seem like I'm hesitant to condemn someone who you think I should be all over.

This is basically a personal problem.

This was about the Volt game that has now ended and Robz, and it's all true.

Vote: Eevee

... aren't we playing "vote for the last person who posted"?

Way to mess up my snark, Archetype.

humor, levity

Grrr @joth for trying to rvs and snark when I think I have a legit case on ash and would want to know what others think of it.

don't you mean Archetype?

correction

[jotheonah]

I'm on page 22, and I will pick this up later, unless Dsell wants to save me the trouble and just tell me what the hell he's talking about.

[Watno]

You're seriously asking why I haven't role-claimed?

I'm asking why you haven't roleclaimed while saying that your role is pro-town information.

We are most probably not in LyLo yet, and probably still have a SK (or at least a town vig) around. So it wouldn't make sense for scum Dsell to go for a 1-1 trade in this situation. I see no reason to distrust him.

I'll stick with my vote on joth.

I will be V\LA for the next 3 days at Essen. I'd love if you wouldn't end the day before I'm back.

[Captain_Frisk]

I will be V\LA for the next 3 days at Essen. I'd love if you wouldn't end the day before I'm back.

Jealous Vote: Watno

Real Vote: Joth

[jotheonah]

hey eHalc, how many votes I got on me?

[Captain_Frisk]

I believe the answer is 3.  Me, DSell and Watno?

[ftl]

Man I'm confused. I don't know, "I'm 100% convinced this person lied about something and is scum" isn't a typical scum gambit until the endgame, and we're not there yet, are we? Though we are doing pretty bad.

I'm sorry joth, but I think I have to believe Dsell. I would absolutely love for there to be some explanation though. Dsell, is there anything you can tell us about what joth lied about, to at least give him a chance to defend himself or at least acknowledge the disagreement?

[eHalcyon]

Vote Count 3.2

Captain_Frisk (1): shraeye
cayvie (1): ashersky
Dsell (2): cayvie, jotheonah
jotheonah (3): Watno, Dsell, Captain_Frisk
Lekkit (1): Eevee

Not voting (2): ftl, Lekkit

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Lynch deadline: Tuesday, October 30, 5:00pm MDT





(Someone should check this over... I missed a few things on first run through and I'm not sure if I corrected it all properly.   /lazy mod)

[shraeye]

I have a question for watno, because I still don't understand the tracking results that we've been given.  If person X is tracked by you and X is targeted by person A, then you see splatter on person A?  What happens if you shoot person X, and person X targets person A?  Is there any paint splatter on the person A?

[shraeye]

I'll have to caveat some of these things with saying that ashersky is a huge townread for me right now.  He started off looking town on day 1, and I recall that growing a bit in day 2; I'm really confused by a lot of these crazy roles and their interactions, so lots of stuff is just leaving me dumbfounded and the only serious town read I have right now is ashersky.  So voting for/pushing for ashersky is a minor scumtell, and the flimsier the reason, the bigger the tell to me.

This jumps out to me from what joth has said

For some reason I'm having this problem lately I've never had before where it's hard to stop myself from transferring my reads from one game over to another game. Which makes me very wary of making my reads public on people who are major players in other ongoing games.

I'm not going to say any more on that point for obvious reasons, but keep it in mind if I seem like I'm hesitant to condemn someone who you think I should be all over.

This is basically a personal problem.

It makes sense that it's hard to separate reads from one game to another, but mostly we manage.  It doesn't feel like you've really been hesitant with your reads on people in this game.   Maybe I'm not watching you close enough up to this point to have seen that.  But another reason it would be hard to keep reads straight on people is if they're all manufactured.  It's easier to have natural reads than it is to try to replace mafia-knowledge with explanations for reads.

I find that rather compelling. Vote: ashersky.

I can't figure out what the word "that" refers to in this post. I guess the post before this is Eevee defending himself, so maybe you were just unvoting Eevee and reverting to your previous vote on ashersky (which was because he made two arguments you thought were bad around post #300).  Really??  somebody makes bad arguments when we still are slightly in RVS mode, and this is a reason for a vote like 6 RL days into the game?  That feels flimsy.

Alright, I think it is a little better than the ashersky wagon, although it's very possible they're both scum.

Vote: Watno since I'm going to be V/LA for a while.

Post #642 he is the second person on watno's wagon after Jorbles.  The case on watno was that he had contributed nothing really compelling.  that could still be the case, I think I recall somebody saying today that he hasn't contributed anything really compelling other than his trackign results, which have done nothing to clarify the situation.  I'm not convinced that watno being scum and joth being scum is mutually exclusive, but it may be somewhat unlikely.

There's the obvious thing where Insomniac was killed with joth's flavor.  But watno never saw joth do anything, and Galzria confirmed that joth targeted him.  I could see joth ninja-killing Insomniac, but then he couldn't have also targeted Galzria.  If he were another type of mafia PR he could target Galzria and kill Insomniac, but he should have been splattered with paint in that case.  It's possible that joth targeted Galz, killed Insom, and scumpartner watno was covering for him. Unless watno was lying, it seems like the second kill on Insomniac must have been a ninja, and possibly a ninja that can steal flavor.  That could be a mafia role.  But it could also be SK.  If it is an SK role, then Frisk isn't the SK, so he could actually be vig.  But then that means that mafia was roleblocked or had their kill doctored (they could have passed ontheir night-kill as well but I don't think that's very reasonable).  We know that Dsell got roleblocked, so that could make him scum, and some unknown person out there is SK and Frisk is vig.  Ok, my reading of joth seems to have derailed to this topic but I think it's a good one.  I'm trying to come up with the most coherent explanation for all the craziness that went on in night 1.  And I'm coming up with nothing.  This is frustrating.

1. Mafia kill stopped, Frisk vig, joth SK ninja with vanilla flavor (this doesn't explain how joth targeted Galz night 1)
2. Mafia kill is icecream flavored and also was ninja kill, Frisk SK, extra kill night 2 came from Galz suiciding
3. mafia kill is icecream flavored and was ninja kill night 1, Frisk is vig, Dsell is SK who was roleblocked N1 and killed Galz N2 in a framed suicide
4. Frisk is mafia, icecream kill was SK or vig that was also a ninja-kill, SK or vig kills jorbles night 2, mafia causes Galz suicide
5. Frisk is mafia, icecream kill was SK or vig that was also a ninja-kill, SK or vig kills jorbles night 2, Galz suicides, so mafia was roleblocked or doctored

A question about possibility #5.  Jorbles died last night but apparently targeted cayvie.  Was cayvie roleblocked?
Out of all these, I think the simplest possibility is #2.  But I guess all of these are based on watno's trackign results being true.  If he's lied, there are a LOT more possibilities it seems.

[cayvie]

whew, thanks, shraeye, for keeping my record intact

[shraeye]

whew, thanks, shraeye, for keeping my record intact

I'm not sure what you mean.

[cayvie]

whew, thanks, shraeye, for keeping my record intact

I'm not sure what you mean.

sorry, that post was supposed to have a quote in it. it was referring to you posting in the middle of jo's rant, leaving me with the record for most consecutive posts.

ashersky is a townread to me too, which is kinda why i was getting upset earlier.

[Captain_Frisk]

I think I might know what DSell thinks Jo is lying about.

Unvote

[Dsell]

This is madness.

Jo is clear. Jo is NOT lying. He MAY still be scum but he is NOT lying. I cannot explain this fully yet because I am super busy just now but stop the lynch.

Basically I'm being epically trolled.

[Dsell]

Unvote

[cayvie]

This is madness.

Jo is clear. Jo is NOT lying. He MAY still be scum but he is NOT lying. I cannot explain this fully yet because I am super busy just now but stop the lynch.

Basically I'm being epically trolled.

what.

what.

[Captain_Frisk]

Actually - my theory is no good.  I was about to put my vote back on until I saw DSell.

[cayvie]

I targeted ashersky because he told Eevee not to target him, because it's possible Eevee actually wanted to target the mailman despite saying he wouldn't. I think ashersky looked towny for revealing that he targeted Insomniac without any need to so. Also, Galz said that he had figured out his role and thought it wasn't a scum role. Plus he wasn't on the last wagon. So I thought he might be a target for a kill.

Consensus seems to be I should reveal my results, and i see nothing speaking against that: Noone targetted ftl or ashersky tonight (or at least, thats what my info says)

As day 3 begins, two players are completely covered in magenta paint. However, your special colour vision does not detect any traces of magenta paint on any other players!

sooo...

why did you target ftl?

[Dsell]

Also I'm really sorry to Jo, who must be so genuinely confused.

[shraeye]

Yeah, it's a doubly mysterious kill. What do you guys think is the likelihood that 1 of the 3 Ice Creamers is scum?

Rather high.

"Neighbors are essentially unconfirmed Masons where the moderator honestly acknowledges no expectation of one Neighbor having the same alignment as any other Neighbor. In an ideal world, the alignment of any Neighbor would be as random as the alignment of the player itself. In practice - and especially in Themed games - Neighbor is seen as an excuse to mix scum Neighbors where they would have been called bastard for doing so with a Masonry."

"If you are one of three Neighbors, chances are reasonable that one of the other Neighbors is scum. "

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Neighbor

Ok, then I need to come forward with this.

The third (and only un-outed) member of my QT is Jorbles. Since Archetype is conf. town and I'm conf. town to myself, that makes him, in Galz/mafiascum's words, highly likely to be scum. In addition, he's already being suspected for unrelated reasons. Third, he claimed his role to me as Roleblocker, which is at least equally likely to be scum as town.

Fourth, Jorbles knew I was Vanilla Ice Cream-themed.  If there is a scum team that can choose their flavor (which makes some sense in a game where flavor is key), and they needed a flavor attached to a townie to throw out on the first day, then Jorbles being on that team would explain their knowing mine (although, given Archetype spilled ALL THE BEANS, this isn't saying that much.)

I really don't like how joth painted this not as "I think that Jorbles might be scum because I'm town" but instead said that "*because Galzria* suspects that one of the 3 is scum, then it must be Jorbles".  It seems like he's hoping that people give him a reason to paint Jorbles as scummy.

Well, I take that back. If Jorbles flips town, he should shoot Jo. Other than that, no he should take no action. Mostly, I don't think he's town-aligned anyway.

I don't love this. It is possible that eHalc subverted expectations and we're both town. If that is the case, I would very much like a chance to make my case for why I'm valuable to town.  Basically, I want to shoot this "has to be him or me" thing down right now. At least 1 scum in the QT is likely but by no means certain.

And here you're starting the idea that both of you are town.  So you've painted Jorbles scummy so that he's more likely to be lynched than you, but then provided groundwork for yourself once Jorbles is proven to be town as he was.  this would be ultra-scummy if you had also been voting for jorbles, but you weren't voting for jorbles at this point.  So a valid explanation is that you were really just trying to make sense of the whole situation while people around you were flying to conclusions.  So this could potentially be suspicious, but since day 2 also confused me badly, I think that the suspicion is really dampened here.

Meh, as I went through the reread, not much else popped out at me as scummy.  His day3 contributions have been pretty helpful.  I often put more stock in my gut reads, but going back and looking at things, I'd say that joth is maybe town.  It seemed suspicious that he hid that he targeted nobody last night, it really didn't avoid confusion as he said, but I can see how randomly starting the day claiming what you did last night could be very helpful to scum.  So i support him keeping that info a secret until it was warrented to explain a situation.

ashersky, I have been forward with every piece of pro-town information I have every step of the way, with the exception of my own role, even though that forwardnes has brought me nothing but grief and suspicion, and eHalc seems to be trolling me with every piece of seemingly useful information I receive.

You and others, on the other hand, are sitting on information and dropping broad hints while the day slips away. I'm sorry my wording was unclear to you. However I am not claiming anything other than what I said before - Jorbles does not appear to have used his power based on scoops.

If you have information that explains this inconsistency, I wish you would either say it or stop talking about it.

Here's a super towny post.  I think he has been very forward with his info, coming straight out yesterday when he suspected a frame-job (an idea I am really starting to latch onto), and trying to keep the record straight about scoops.  it seems that everything he does is pretty forward and honest, and somehow blows up in his face.  I'd be rightly frustrated if I were in joth's position as well.

Well I'll get around to a Dsell reread later, but now the possibility exists for both of them to be town, which I didn't see before.  The simple explanation is Dsell thought Joth was lying and then realized he wasnt.

[cayvie]

(to be clear with all my hintings: i'm cottoning to the idea that watno and ftl are scumbuddies. dsell was my pick for a 3rd partner, but i'm not as confident with recent events)

[ashersky]

Okay, that was a lot to have happen overnight.

To be clear, I know Joth to be wrong about Jorbles.  I don't think he lied about that part, because he wouldn't know what jorbles did or didn't do, so he couldn't very well lie about it.  I still don't like the "eHalc confirmed it to me in the QT" line, because that was misleading.  It definitely sounded like eHalc told Joth "Jorbles didn't use his power," which cayvie said is untrue (due to eating the ice cream), and which joth has since confirmed eHalc didn't say.

That whole DSell thing?  No clue on that, but I guess it helps that I came in after the whole thing played out and we wound up back at DSell apologizing...so odd.

My vote on cayvie is based on her strong defense of joth when I already know I'm right, even if she can't.  If she feels the need to protect joth, she knows more than she's saying, but hasn't given us any reason to think that.  That's what i'm finding so scummy about it.  The scumslip ("Jorbles didn't shoot" versus "use his power", which to me sounds like she knows who can/can't shoot) isn't so strong as a case in itself, and usually "scumslips" are never good cases anyway.  It's just the intensive buddying with joth before, and disappearance after DSell's claim of his lying (maybe cayvie just went offline?  But I didn't see a post at all during that time from cayvie) that makes me suspect her.

[Dsell]

Ugh.

I don't know anything anymore.

[Dsell]

This is all very convoluted and it's still quite anti-town for me to reveal much, but something led to be to be absolutely, completely positive that Jo was lying in this game. Not a hunch, not just an inconsistency that I spotted, but an outright lie. Something else quite convoluted and extremely trollish made me realize that that simply wasn't the case.

And I really strongly believe that Jo was telling the truth when he claimed to have no idea what I was saying.

[cayvie]

This is all very convoluted and it's still quite anti-town for me to reveal much, but something led to be to be absolutely, completely positive that Jo was lying in this game. Not a hunch, not just an inconsistency that I spotted, but an outright lie. Something else quite convoluted and extremely trollish made me realize that that simply wasn't the case.

And I really strongly believe that Jo was telling the truth when he claimed to have no idea what I was saying.

aughghghghhghhhhh

[ashersky]

This is all very convoluted and it's still quite anti-town for me to reveal much, but something led to be to be absolutely, completely positive that Jo was lying in this game. Not a hunch, not just an inconsistency that I spotted, but an outright lie. Something else quite convoluted and extremely trollish made me realize that that simply wasn't the case.

And I really strongly believe that Jo was telling the truth when he claimed to have no idea what I was saying.

DSell, are you claiming that we should be treating this game as "bastard" modded?

[Dsell]

This is all very convoluted and it's still quite anti-town for me to reveal much, but something led to be to be absolutely, completely positive that Jo was lying in this game. Not a hunch, not just an inconsistency that I spotted, but an outright lie. Something else quite convoluted and extremely trollish made me realize that that simply wasn't the case.

And I really strongly believe that Jo was telling the truth when he claimed to have no idea what I was saying.

DSell, are you claiming that we should be treating this game as "bastard" modded?

I'm...not sure. It kinda seems that way, at least in a particular way. I imagine that overall it's not terribly bastardly but this odd...wrinkle...I've encountered does seem pretty bastardly.

[Dsell]

Let's not treat it as a bastard game. But let's keep in mind that there could be some level of bastardry in the way that some roles play out.

[Dsell]

Out of all of this convolution, I have managed to learn something! It will sound quite convenient coming from me.

Galz did indeed commit suicide.

[cayvie]

Out of all of this convolution, I have managed to learn something! It will sound quite convenient coming from me.

Galz did indeed commit suicide.

hm

what does this mean about frisk

[ashersky]

Out of all of this convolution, I have managed to learn something! It will sound quite convenient coming from me.

Galz did indeed commit suicide.

hm

what does this mean about frisk

Believe it means he didn't shoot, as requested, and as he said.

[cayvie]

yeah, but i was thinking he was cleared as SK because of Galz's death--i thought someone, presumably the SK, had killed Galz.

i suppose not?

[shraeye]

1. Mafia kill stopped, Frisk vig, joth SK ninja with vanilla flavor (this doesn't explain how joth targeted Galz night 1)
2. Mafia kill is icecream flavored and also was ninja kill, Frisk SK, extra kill night 2 came from Galz suiciding
3. mafia kill is icecream flavored and was ninja kill night 1, Frisk is vig, Dsell is SK who was roleblocked N1 and killed Galz N2 in a framed suicide
4. Frisk is mafia, icecream kill was SK or vig that was also a ninja-kill, SK or vig kills jorbles night 2, mafia causes Galz suicide
5. Frisk is mafia, icecream kill was SK or vig that was also a ninja-kill, SK or vig kills jorbles night 2, Galz suicides, so mafia was roleblocked or doctored

Knowing Galz suicided makes this list shorter.  I was looking it over and realized that all these choices involve an SK, mostly because I'm convinced this is Frisk.  Could there be no SK?  Are there possibilities I didn't get?  And what to do if watno's tracking results weren't full or truthful?

[Captain_Frisk]

What the heck?

Dsell I'm sure you realize It's a little hard to fathom how you have gone from joth is lying to galz suicided.

[Dsell]

What the heck?

Dsell I'm sure you realize It's a little hard to fathom how you have gone from joth is lying to galz suicided.

Oh. I know. Believe me. I know.

[cayvie]

we know galz suicided if DSell is telling the truth, I suppose

but i find myself believing Dsell's claims at the moment. god, though, maybe he's just scum pulling an incredibly daring gambit.

[Captain_Frisk]

we know galz suicided if DSell is telling the truth, I suppose

but i find myself believing Dsell's claims at the moment. god, though, maybe he's just scum pulling an incredibly daring gambit.

I might believe that dsell thinks he's telling the truth, but I don't trust any conclusions he draws at this point.

[shraeye]

What the heck?

Dsell I'm sure you realize It's a little hard to fathom how you have gone from joth is lying to galz suicided.

That was a really surprising jump; i'm also super confused by it.

[shraeye]

we know galz suicided if DSell is telling the truth, I suppose

but i find myself believing Dsell's claims at the moment. god, though, maybe he's just scum pulling an incredibly daring gambit.

I might believe that dsell thinks he's telling the truth, but I don't trust any conclusions he draws at this point.

Here is also a point.  Dsell's last "I know" was not correct.

[Dsell]

I believe there will actually be modconfirmation about the suicide at some point.

[cayvie]

I believe there will actually be modconfirmation about the suicide at some point.

in this thread?

[Lekkit]

Dsell, is all this information something someone else could know. Either dead or alive?

[Dsell]

I believe there will actually be modconfirmation about the suicide at some point.

in this thread?

Yeah.

[cayvie]

I believe there will actually be modconfirmation about the suicide at some point.

in this thread?

Yeah.

*popcorn*

[shraeye]

I believe there will actually be modconfirmation about the suicide at some point.

in this thread?

Yeah.

*popcorn*

what?

[Dsell]

Dsell, is all this information something someone else could know. Either dead or alive?

It's possible but don't expect confirmation of any of this (except Galz' suicide). It's a tricky thing that really toes the line of being anti-town.

Basically I'm gonna look crazy now.

[Captain_Frisk]

I'm going to just ignore the dsell distraction until I see some kind of proof of his imaginary teapot.

Cayvie, you were proposing a scum team earlier.  Would you care to share the thinking with the class?

[cayvie]

unvote, vote: ftl

there was a sweet case insomniac made against him day 1 that wound up being swept under the rug when archetype imploded.

insomniac died in the night.

ftl has stayed out of the limelight since.

[Captain_Frisk]

What about the joth / cayvie role blocking scoop count issue? 

[shraeye]

unvote, vote: ftl

there was a sweet case insomniac made against him day 1 that wound up being swept under the rug when archetype imploded.

insomniac died in the night.

ftl has stayed out of the limelight since.

can you link that? I've been wanting to relook at ftl's stuff.

[cayvie]

here's insomniac's case

FTL

Post @ September 24, 2012, 02:31:47 pm
Jokingly votes Cypher

Post @ September 24, 2012, 03:08:16 pm
Complains that Galz is rolefishing by revealing a small part of Galz's own role

Post @ September 24, 2012, 11:15:11 pm
Goes back to joke vote for Robz

Next post he votes for crickets beacuse its quiet but in the same post revotes robz because why not

Cayvie accuses him of distancing himself from me with his post @  September 25, 2012, 07:32:32 pm, where he votes joth for voting voltaire when in fact I started that wagon and other people had jumped on it too why single out joth?

Post @ September 26, 2012, 03:59:21 pm
Votes Robz again...provides analysis of other players but votes robz anyways

Post @ September 27, 2012, 08:03:25 pm
Tries to distance himself from wanting a flavour claim but also talks about it in a way that might make it happen.

Post @ September 27, 2012, 08:37:50 pm
A lie, it side claiming and seat claiming DID help town more than mafia in Ozle's BMMMM (he says it didnt)

Post @ September 27, 2012, 09:38:22 pm
Appologizes for bringing up the mass claim because people say it seemed bad and called him out on it.

Post @ September 28, 2012, 06:13:12 pm
Votes Jo again gives no reasons why

When asked why he responds with a post @ September 28, 2012, 06:20:52 pm Giving no reason for voting jo just reasons for not voting the way he was.

Post @ September 28, 2012, 06:33:37 pm
Finally gives reason for voting jo, it was because he looked over the player list and had a gut feeling that jo was scummy (NOTE HE DID NOT SAY HE REREAD)

Post @ October 01, 2012, 07:18:49 pm
Listens to ARCHETYPES case on Eevee but Archetypes case is Dsells essay post on Eevee says Jorbles also seems scummy, at the time Jorbles and Eevee were the big wagons.

Post @ October 02, 2012, 07:02:32 pm
Gives feelings on players votes ASH, but this seems to be outta the blue as he hasn't mentioend ash at all yet. Claims ok with Robz/Eevee/Ash lynch


The infamous watno or nothing post, when we still have a bunch of time, ftl hadn't mentioned watno up until this point either.


PPE: Now he's voting for archetype after listening to one of archetypes cases (on Eevee) and not ever talking about it either.

Ftl just seems a little bit too wagon happy, except he never did vote for watno, he has been very happy to lynch just about anyone

[Eevee]

I have NO idea of what's going on now. Like, even less than before. eHalc puts the mad in role madness.
Except I'm back to having a strong town read on jotheonah. Dsell looks towny too, because no scum ever does something like that. But I still don't understand what's happening at all..

[jotheonah]

Unvote.

I apologize for going my little kickball trip back there. Obnoxious thread spamming is obnoxious.

OMG I figured out what Dsell knew about me and why he thought what he thought!

Dsell, is there a particular post of mine from earlier in the game that made you realize you were wrong? (Don't answer that if you don't want to.)

Anyway, if it is what I think it is it's totally understandable and I feel kind of stupid for not figuring it out before.

[Dsell]

This is all very convoluted and it's still quite anti-town for me to reveal much, but something led to be to be absolutely, completely positive that Jo was lying in this game. Not a hunch, not just an inconsistency that I spotted, but an outright lie. Something else quite convoluted and extremely trollish made me realize that that simply wasn't the case.

And I really strongly believe that Jo was telling the truth when he claimed to have no idea what I was saying.

[Captain_Frisk]

Des anyone else feel like we were just trolled by dsell and joth?

[Dsell]

I think I might know what DSell thinks Jo is lying about.

Unvote

I'm curious about this. It was the last post before I posted about the cake being a lie. What were you referring to? Unless it's revealing info that doesn't need to be revealed.

[ashersky]

I think I might know what DSell thinks Jo is lying about.

Unvote

I'm curious about this. It was the last post before I posted about the cake being a lie. What were you referring to? Unless it's revealing info that doesn't need to be revealed.

Wait, what cake?

[Dsell]

"The cake is a lie" is a reference to Portal, a video game. There's not really any cake. XD

[Lekkit]

THE CAKE IS NOT A LIE!

SHROEDINGER'S CAT IS NOT DEAD!

ROSEBUD!

[ashersky]

"The cake is a lie" is a reference to Portal, a video game. There's not really any cake. XD

Oh, but, I mean, does Portal have to do with all this madness?  Or were you just making things worse for fun?  Because cake...ice cream...you know?

[Dsell]

Oh, was not thinking about ice cream! Portal has nothing to do with the flavor as far as I'm aware.

[shraeye]

"The Cake" would be a pretty badass role.  I'm imagining an ability where they can come up with any lie they want and get posted as modconfirmed info (following the line of "the cake is a lie").

[Eevee]

THE CAKE IS NOT A LIE!

SHROEDINGER'S CAT IS NOT DEAD!

ROSEBUD!

Coming in after all that action and just posting a joke like this makes me feel good about where my vote is. /ihopenavigatorisonboardbecauseimtunnelinglikeamadman

Just can't shake this feeling, so much of what Lekkit does just screams scum to me. Sort of reminds me of archetype in day 1. Who was town.

@shraeye
That would be way too bastardly.. oh wait Insomniac had that in joth's game.

[Dsell]

Hey! Let's get back to the game? My reads are weird now, as in the same as before, I guess. I do have that one piece of information about Galz' suicide, which presumably has something to do with the red herring, and of course there's the big question of why he would suicide in the first place. Since he's town I imagine he had a good reason, unless he had no choice. It doesn't seem like it would qualify as suicide if it was forced, though.

Anyway, this is strange as I've never seen a suicide in a game before, but this game is filled with a lot of firsts, so...

[Eevee]

Galzria said he was going to do something he feared/anticipated might cause him to accidentally commit suicide, or something to that effect. He thought the risk was worth taking partially because he might be more useful after dying.. maybe we'll still hear from him? Hi Galzria!
Revive: Galzria

[shraeye]

I imagine it was because of this, as Galz posted before

By the way, since nobody took responsibility for being the first person to target me last night, I'm going to do something risky tonight out of simple curiosity. I may end up dead for it, but I might not. I honestly don't know! Exciting!

CF, I indeed have no active role. However I have said -repeatedly- since the start of D2 that two things happened to me last night. I have done everything in my power to figure out what the first thing is -exactly-. I have made no headway on this front however, so I'm left to my own devices. Given this, I may or may not kill myself tonight. I may become drunk. I may do any number of things -to myself-. I simply don't know.

[Dsell]

What's the point of him committing suicide just for us to revive him? I mean I guess it's entirely possible in this game, but it seems a little counterproductive, no?

[cayvie]

What's the point of him committing suicide just for us to revive him? I mean I guess it's entirely possible in this game, but it seems a little counterproductive, no?
[/quote

well now he has access to the spec qt!

[cayvie]

ugh misquote

well now he has access to the spec QT!

[Eevee]

What's the point of him committing suicide just for us to revive him? I mean I guess it's entirely possible in this game, but it seems a little counterproductive, no?

Me trying to revive him was just wishful thinking. However, my point was he didn't commit suicide intentionally.

[shraeye]

What's the point of him committing suicide just for us to revive him? I mean I guess it's entirely possible in this game, but it seems a little counterproductive, no?

Me trying to revive him was just wishful thinking. However, my point was he didn't commit suicide intentionally.

I think you're right that the suicide wasn't *intentional* but he did intentionally do something that he thought might kill himself.

[Dsell]

ugh misquote

well now he has access to the spec QT!

That's true. I only know that he committed suicide, I don't know what the results of that might be or exactly what he's able to do now.

[Captain_Frisk]

ugh misquote

well now he has access to the spec QT!

That's true. I only know that he committed suicide, I don't know what the results of that might be or exactly what he's able to do now.

I wouldn't put it past ehalc to have that little out of thread exchange to cover a non dead galz.

[Captain_Frisk]

The worst part about galz being "dead" is that nearly 12 hours went by without any new posting.

[Captain_Frisk]

Bump?  Where are we going here?

Do we want to get to the bottom of the scoops Cayvie vs. Joth?

Re: Galz suicide.  If it this was mod directed - then it may indicate that we have weaker scum than we would normally in a game of this size - as suicidal modifier is obv. negative utility. (http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Suicidal)

FTL - would you like to come participate?

[Captain_Frisk]

Oh - I'm back to my default vote: Watno

35 posts is just not acceptable.

[jotheonah]

Vote: Watno

[ftl]

Sure, I'll participate, I haven't really been keeping up with my forum games at all though, I've read posts as they come in but haven't done any reading-back or analysis or anything. Vote: Watno ? Is that what the cool kids are doing nowadays? 

[Captain_Frisk]

It sure seems like it.

[Eevee]

drunkdrunk on a bar (lolyea I check this thread from bars), but why are you voting Watno? just because he has a low post count? you know his posts are usually on the longer side (cant check on mobile but that's my impression anyways)w

[Captain_Frisk]

Well - it seems that Joth v. DSell is impossible to resolve. 

There is the Cayvie v Joth situation, but I'm not sure what to do there.  Cayvie's claim seems pretty trustworthy (backed by DSell) - and I think Joth honestly doesn't understand how there are 5 scoops left.

So - barring a Cayvie + DSell scum pair (where Cayvie gets called out on lying and DSell saves her), I'm just not sure what to do there.

Nobody was talking - so I threw down a Watno vote until he'd like to come and play with us.  You can read into the follow on votes whatever you want.

I don't really like FTL's (well i'm reading but not really following) either, but at least he's here if we want to talk to him.

[shraeye]

Do we want to get to the bottom of the scoops Cayvie vs. Joth?

No, this is a dead end.  Or more specifically an anti-town end.  I know that both Joth and cayvie are telling the truth here, and to ask more would be anti-town and rolefishy.  I know that's pretty vague, but it's all I feel safe saying.

[jotheonah]

Yeah, Vote:ftl. That was just some shameless sheeping there, bro. Megalurk and then jump up when a wagon shows up?

[Captain_Frisk]

This is the best game - why is it going so slow today?

[ftl]

Yeah, Vote:ftl. That was just some shameless sheeping there, bro. Megalurk and then jump up when a wagon shows up?

yep sounds about right

well, jump up when someone calls on me by name and I have nothing to say. I'm not scum though.

This is the best game - why is it going so slow today?

Pet hypothesis: because we've spent the better part of three days talking about flavor, because the title is RTFF, and have now realized that all the flavor talk has not gotten us a single step closer to actually catching scum and was a huge waste of thread space and not much else.

Also, I don't actually feel like going back and rereading old things, even though that's probably the right thing to do here. 

[ashersky]

Well - it seems that Joth v. DSell is impossible to resolve. 

There is the Cayvie v Joth situation, but I'm not sure what to do there.  Cayvie's claim seems pretty trustworthy (backed by DSell) - and I think Joth honestly doesn't understand how there are 5 scoops left.

So - barring a Cayvie + DSell scum pair (where Cayvie gets called out on lying and DSell saves her), I'm just not sure what to do there.

Nobody was talking - so I threw down a Watno vote until he'd like to come and play with us.  You can read into the follow on votes whatever you want.

I don't really like FTL's (well i'm reading but not really following) either, but at least he's here if we want to talk to him.

My guess is one of Joth/Dsell in scum, and lean toward Joth based on previous analysis.  I am by no means sure, though.

If Joth is scum, Cayvie is scum based on interactions where Cayvie tries to defend what could be pro-town Joth actions, but could actually be trying to save a partner.

If Dsell is scum, Cayvie is scum based on corroborating the strawberry scoop thing, regardless of the scoop number fiasco, which I (and Shraeye, it seems) know the truth about.  Also, her ftl vote was opportunistic.

Those are my strongest reads, hence my vote on Cayvie.

Can we get a vote count?. It has been awhile.

[Dsell]

I have had kindof a bad feeling about cayvie in this game too. Doesn't seem normal and maybe a bit lurky.

[cayvie]

Well - it seems that Joth v. DSell is impossible to resolve. 

There is the Cayvie v Joth situation, but I'm not sure what to do there.  Cayvie's claim seems pretty trustworthy (backed by DSell) - and I think Joth honestly doesn't understand how there are 5 scoops left.

So - barring a Cayvie + DSell scum pair (where Cayvie gets called out on lying and DSell saves her), I'm just not sure what to do there.

Nobody was talking - so I threw down a Watno vote until he'd like to come and play with us.  You can read into the follow on votes whatever you want.

I don't really like FTL's (well i'm reading but not really following) either, but at least he's here if we want to talk to him.

If Dsell is scum, Cayvie is scum based on corroborating the strawberry scoop thing, regardless of the scoop number fiasco, which I (and Shraeye, it seems) know the truth about.

dont have time for a big post, but this at least is just terrible logic

you don't think it's possible that dsell is scum and ALSO legitimately got role blocked?

ie, you think that, if Dsell is scum, Dsell automatically is lying about everything?

[cayvie]

oh, and earlier today you accused me of buddying up to jo.

so, if jo is scum, i'm scum
if jo is town, i'm buddying with him, and therefore scum

gosh, looks like i must be scum!

seriously, you're tunneling hardcore

[Captain_Frisk]

Pretty defensive cayvie. Not sure if lurking is fair though. WAtno is clearly the winner there

[Eevee]

what are you saying, cayvie?#vla fo 15 hours but too confused/drunk not to ask here sorry

[ashersky]

oh, and earlier today you accused me of buddying up to jo.

so, if jo is scum, i'm scum
if jo is town, i'm buddying with him, and therefore scum

gosh, looks like i must be scum!

seriously, you're tunneling hardcore

You are my strongest scum read.  Is that tunneling?  Your response doesn't make you look any better.

[cayvie]

ashersky accused me of buddying up to jo.

that means that if jo is town, he thinks i'm scum

in this most recent attack, he said that if jo is scum, then i'm scum

so, according to ashersky

if jo = scum, then cayvie = scum
AND
if jo = town, then cayvie = scum

that's tunneling

[ashersky]

ashersky accused me of buddying up to jo.

that means that if jo is town, he thinks i'm scum

in this most recent attack, he said that if jo is scum, then i'm scum

so, according to ashersky

if jo = scum, then cayvie = scum
AND
if jo = town, then cayvie = scum

that's tunneling

To clarify, since it seems to have confused you.  I will go backwards, actually, to help--conclusion first.

Cayvie must be scum.

Because Joth may be scum, and Cayvie tried to (succeeded?) save him.

Or, because Dsell may be lying to frame a town Joth, and Cayvie would have been complicit in that lie.

Also because Cayvie's posting pattern has changed, slowing down and opportunistically voting.

And also because Cayvie hasn't reacted well under what I think is very little pressure (basically just from me).


Is that clearer?

[Dsell]

Pretty defensive cayvie. Not sure if lurking is fair though. WAtno is clearly the winner there

Watno is definitely the winner there but I mean she seems to be lurking more than usual. That's not based on evidence or anything, though, it just seems that way to me. She usually has a big presence in the town and here, not so much.

[shraeye]

If Dsell is scum, Cayvie is scum based on corroborating the strawberry scoop thing,

Asher, what was the corroborating the strawberry scoop thing bit?  Just when she says that she got it?  That part of the argument sounds confusing to me.  But something seems up from cayvie on some level, I agree.

[shraeye]

And also because Cayvie hasn't reacted well under what I think is very little pressure (basically just from me).

Also, this seems super true to me.  Are you the only one accusing her of stuff?  Maybe Dsell is too a bit.  Is anybody even voting for cayvie??

[Dsell]

If Dsell is scum, Cayvie is scum based on corroborating the strawberry scoop thing,

Asher, what was the corroborating the strawberry scoop thing bit?  Just when she says that she got it?  That part of the argument sounds confusing to me.  But something seems up from cayvie on some level, I agree.

She got strawberry ice cream last night and it had the same description as when it was given to me ("exceedingly sweet"). So it doesn't prove that she's town but it sufficiently proves to me that she or I suppose someone she has contact with was roleblocked.

[ashersky]

If Dsell is scum, Cayvie is scum based on corroborating the strawberry scoop thing,

Asher, what was the corroborating the strawberry scoop thing bit?  Just when she says that she got it?  That part of the argument sounds confusing to me.  But something seems up from cayvie on some level, I agree.

Dsell answered for me:

If Dsell is scum, Cayvie is scum based on corroborating the strawberry scoop thing,

Asher, what was the corroborating the strawberry scoop thing bit?  Just when she says that she got it?  That part of the argument sounds confusing to me.  But something seems up from cayvie on some level, I agree.

She got strawberry ice cream last night and it had the same description as when it was given to me ("exceedingly sweet"). So it doesn't prove that she's town but it sufficiently proves to me that she or I suppose someone she has contact with was roleblocked.

Basically, if Dsell is lying then Cayvie is lying with him, right?  That was the corroborating thing.

And also because Cayvie hasn't reacted well under what I think is very little pressure (basically just from me).

Also, this seems super true to me.  Are you the only one accusing her of stuff?  Maybe Dsell is too a bit.  Is anybody even voting for cayvie??

I am.  I think that's it.

[Lekkit]

Soo... Everybody reread the whole thread in the wait for Watno's return?

[cayvie]

look, the problem is that both those associations (Dsell and jo) are terrible.

1) Dsell

the argument is that if Dsell is scum, then I must be scum, because we both got roleblocked with strawberry ice cream?
or because i said i did, and then Dsell agreed?

this is terrible, because it ignores the case (which I am leaning toward!) that I am town, and that Dsell is scum who also got fed strawberry ice cream.

2) jotheonah

so, I defended jotheonah. yes indeed i did. i didn't think he was scum, still don't.

you have used this fact to make the argument that I must be scum if jo is, and if he isn't!

see:

Jorbles didn't "shoot"?  Heck of a scum slip there.  Vote: Cayvie for that and for hardcore buddying with Joth.

here you accuse me of buddying with joth, and vote me. "buddying" is where a scum player acts nicely toward a town player in order to gain their trust. is this what you meant?

because Joth may be scum, and Cayvie tried to (succeeded?) save him.

yet here, you accuse me of being scum if jotheonah is scum.

it seems to me that you saw me defending jotheonah, and decided that I must be scum because I disagreed with you, no matter if jo was scum or not.

and it's pretty ridiculous that you accuse me of things, and then accuse me of reacting badly when i try to defend myself against them. what would you like me to do, ignore your accusations?

[cayvie]

while we're on the topic of choosing to ignore it when people attack you

see: ftl, watno

watno in particular. i asked him why he targeted ftl and ashersky:

i want to know why watno, as watcher, targeted who he did.

i would think that a town watcher would target much townier-looking players than ftl and ashersky.

 here was his response:

I targeted ashersky because he told Eevee not to target him, because it's possible Eevee actually wanted to target the mailman despite saying he wouldn't. I think ashersky looked towny for revealing that he targeted Insomniac without any need to so. Also, Galz said that he had figured out his role and thought it wasn't a scum role. Plus he wasn't on the last wagon. So I thought he might be a target for a kill.

Consensus seems to be I should reveal my results, and i see nothing speaking against that: Noone targetted ftl or ashersky tonight (or at least, thats what my info says)

As day 3 begins, two players are completely covered in magenta paint. However, your special colour vision does not detect any traces of magenta paint on any other players!

<<snip>>

no response as to why he targeted ftl! at all! he completely ignored that part of the question.

about ftl, he has mentioned in the past that he has used the scum strategy (in BMV in particular, I believe it was) of intentionally lurking when under pressure, and hoping the town forgets about him. i think he's doing that here.

[ashersky]

while we're on the topic of choosing to ignore it when people attack you

see: ftl, watno

watno in particular. i asked him why he targeted ftl and ashersky:

i want to know why watno, as watcher, targeted who he did.

i would think that a town watcher would target much townier-looking players than ftl and ashersky.

 here was his response:

I targeted ashersky because he told Eevee not to target him, because it's possible Eevee actually wanted to target the mailman despite saying he wouldn't. I think ashersky looked towny for revealing that he targeted Insomniac without any need to so. Also, Galz said that he had figured out his role and thought it wasn't a scum role. Plus he wasn't on the last wagon. So I thought he might be a target for a kill.

Consensus seems to be I should reveal my results, and i see nothing speaking against that: Noone targetted ftl or ashersky tonight (or at least, thats what my info says)

As day 3 begins, two players are completely covered in magenta paint. However, your special colour vision does not detect any traces of magenta paint on any other players!

<<snip>>

no response as to why he targeted ftl! at all! he completely ignored that part of the question.

about ftl, he has mentioned in the past that he has used the scum strategy (in BMV in particular, I believe it was) of intentionally lurking when under pressure, and hoping the town forgets about him. i think he's doing that here.

Actually, I think where he says I revealed that I targeted Insom, Watno meant to write ftl.  So that was his ftl answer, but mistyped.

[ashersky]

look, the problem is that both those associations (Dsell and jo) are terrible.

1) Dsell

the argument is that if Dsell is scum, then I must be scum, because we both got roleblocked with strawberry ice cream?
or because i said i did, and then Dsell agreed?

this is terrible, because it ignores the case (which I am leaning toward!) that I am town, and that Dsell is scum who also got fed strawberry ice cream.

2) jotheonah

so, I defended jotheonah. yes indeed i did. i didn't think he was scum, still don't.

you have used this fact to make the argument that I must be scum if jo is, and if he isn't!

see:

Jorbles didn't "shoot"?  Heck of a scum slip there.  Vote: Cayvie for that and for hardcore buddying with Joth.

here you accuse me of buddying with joth, and vote me. "buddying" is where a scum player acts nicely toward a town player in order to gain their trust. is this what you meant?

because Joth may be scum, and Cayvie tried to (succeeded?) save him.

yet here, you accuse me of being scum if jotheonah is scum.

it seems to me that you saw me defending jotheonah, and decided that I must be scum because I disagreed with you, no matter if jo was scum or not.

and it's pretty ridiculous that you accuse me of things, and then accuse me of reacting badly when i try to defend myself against them. what would you like me to do, ignore your accusations?

I may have misused the word "buddying" back there.  I thought "buddying" was when one player acted like a friend of another.  I didn't know it was only applied to scum befriending town, especially since I don't know anyone's alignment but my own.  So I meant that you were helping/befriending/aligning yourself with joth, through defending him, etc.  And since I thought joth was scummy, that made you scummy.  That's what I meant there.  So apologies if I misused "buddying" in that instance, but you did in fact get the gist of my reasoning there.

On the DSell/strawberry ice cream thing, I do see your point that he could be scum without you being scum.  It's fair and worth keeping in mind.  As it is, I think the joth association is much stronger and more likely.

[Lekkit]

Actually, I think where he says I revealed that I targeted Insom, Watno meant to write ftl.  So that was his ftl answer, but mistyped.

I've been rereading that statement over and over (the one you said he mistyped), but I still can't figure out why he would target ftl.

[Lekkit]

From that post.

[shraeye]

Actually, I think where he says I revealed that I targeted Insom, Watno meant to write ftl.  So that was his ftl answer, but mistyped.

I've been rereading that statement over and over (the one you said he mistyped), but I still can't figure out why he would target ftl.

I'm confused about that post as well.  I'm not sure who targeted Insomniac, I'm not sure ashersky did.  But Galz did say that he figured out ftl's role flavor and said that he thought it had to be town-aligned.

[shraeye]

look, the problem is that both those associations (Dsell and jo) are terrible.

1) Dsell

the argument is that if Dsell is scum, then I must be scum, because we both got roleblocked with strawberry ice cream?
or because i said i did, and then Dsell agreed?

this is terrible, because it ignores the case (which I am leaning toward!) that I am town, and that Dsell is scum who also got fed strawberry ice cream.

2) jotheonah

so, I defended jotheonah. yes indeed i did. i didn't think he was scum, still don't.

you have used this fact to make the argument that I must be scum if jo is, and if he isn't!

see:

Jorbles didn't "shoot"?  Heck of a scum slip there.  Vote: Cayvie for that and for hardcore buddying with Joth.

here you accuse me of buddying with joth, and vote me. "buddying" is where a scum player acts nicely toward a town player in order to gain their trust. is this what you meant?

because Joth may be scum, and Cayvie tried to (succeeded?) save him.

yet here, you accuse me of being scum if jotheonah is scum.

it seems to me that you saw me defending jotheonah, and decided that I must be scum because I disagreed with you, no matter if jo was scum or not.

and it's pretty ridiculous that you accuse me of things, and then accuse me of reacting badly when i try to defend myself against them. what would you like me to do, ignore your accusations?

Yeah, the Dsell connection just isn't there.  They both got roleblocked by somebody who said that he was roleblocker and we now know we can trust JOrbles.  Two people being targeted by a town player isn't a connection worth reading into I'd say. 

About the buddying, I think this is a really narrow definition of buddying.  Ashersky clearly points out that the suspicious thing is that you defended joth (who apparantly ashersky thinks is scum, I'm not so sure though).  Just because he called it buddying doesn't make it an invalid argument.

About your defending, I can't say what asher's beef with it is.  My beef isn't that you defended yourself, every player has that right.  But you did it in a really anxiety-filled way in my opinion.  A very strange *level* of reaction given the level of suspicion you had garnered.

[Lekkit]

About your defending, I can't say what asher's beef with it is.  My beef isn't that you defended yourself, every player has that right.  But you did it in a really anxiety-filled way in my opinion.  A very strange *level* of reaction given the level of suspicion you had garnered.

This.

Although I think caivie is experienced enough to realise this. And that's why that kind of defense from him/her doesn't really make sense to me. It's kind of the same as Eevee's super defensive style. I don't know how many scum games they have, though. Talking about how to play scum and actually playing scum is two different things.

[jotheonah]

Where has Eevee been? He was my top suspect and now he's sort of vanished. Always worrying.

[Lekkit]

He was in a bar yesterday and I wouldn't be surprised if he's recouperating today. I do think he would pop in, at least.

[Dsell]

Hmm. We may like to consider the fact that confirmed-town Jorbles suspected cayvie enough to target her for roleblocking. Of course, he also suspected me day 1 so his scumhunting sense was not perfect; however I think it's reasonable to think that every townie's reads would get better over time.

The other person he strongly suspected that I still find myself suspecting is Watno. The more I think about the night 1 paint incident, the more it seems that he is the common denominator in Insomniac's death. Frisk may indeed be scum, but two targeted Insom with intent to kill. This means that either Jo is a ninja who happens to kill with his own "flavor," vanilla ice cream scoops or there is a ninja who can also target someone to steal their flavor. They both seem very unlikely and Jo is giving me a very slight town read at this point...I don't think he's a good lynch. So Watno is the common denominator and the simplest solution is that he's lying. He expected there to be just one kill on Insom so that he could frame someone who targeted Insom/Robz (originally Jorbles). Now he's just covering for the fact that he didn't really account for the possibility of two kills.

Vote: Watno

[Eevee]

He was in a bar yesterday and I wouldn't be surprised if he's recouperating today. I do think he would pop in, at least.

Yeps, here now (and terribly hungover oh dear me). I did read stuff last night from phone, but couldn't understand what was going on at all so re-read time.  I should have announced a VLA maybe, sorry about that.

Joth, I dont remember you voicing suspicion on me earlier, care to elaborate?

[Eevee]

(I think it's awesome people start asking where I am if I go 24 hours without posting. I did even post twice last night, didn't remember that hello!)

Des anyone else feel like we were just trolled by dsell and joth?

I don't. I have the townread on Joth I've explained numerous times, and that incident just made it stronger because his reaction read genuine. I also think Dsell legitimately thought he caught Joth in a lie. Now he could of course still be scum, but I don't think there is anything scummy about that exchange.

I think it's almost definite both cayvie and Dsell got fed strawberry ice cream. I don't think we can draw any conclusions about their alignments based on that though.

One weird thing to me is all these people saying "I know something of this and that, but revealing more would be anti-town of me". All I got on my role pm was the existence of a character (that turned out to be ashersky, probably), but no info on that character or anyone else. However, I find things like that are usually truthful because they are hard/pointless to fake as scum. Still, I'm wondering.

I may have misused the word "buddying" back there.  I thought "buddying" was when one player acted like a friend of another.  I didn't know it was only applied to scum befriending town, especially since I don't know anyone's alignment but my own.  So I meant that you were helping/befriending/aligning yourself with joth, through defending him, etc.  And since I thought joth was scummy, that made you scummy.  That's what I meant there.  So apologies if I misused "buddying" in that instance, but you did in fact get the gist of my reasoning there

I don't agree with this at all. Why would scum act like that towards their scum pair!? I actually agree with buddying up to jo potentially being scummy (if any buddying is ever), because Joth is my strongest town read atm. That's the kind of buddying scum wants to do - they want to befriend town-aligned players because it makes them look good after their flip. Especially ones that might give you a pass if you don't suspect them. But I feel that's mostly a live mafia thing anyways, although I haven't really been scum online so I don't know.

Dsell's case on Watno makes sense, and if that's what happened, it would also explain why Watno is now laying low like this.

[jotheonah]

...It's possible I got my games mixed up. Am I voting for you elsewhere?

[Eevee]

...It's possible I got my games mixed up. Am I voting for you elsewhere?

Indeed you are.

[shraeye]

That's the kind of buddying scum wants to do - they want to befriend town-aligned players because it makes them look good after their flip. Especially ones that might give you a pass if you don't suspect them. But I feel that's mostly a live mafia thing anyways, although I haven't really been scum online so I don't know.

What's that supposed to mean?  Have you fake-been scum?  For some reason this just popped right off the page as something really weird. 

The rest of your post I tend to agree with;
-joth/Dsell both looked like they were having genuine reactions. 
-Also, cayvie/Dsell both being roleblocked doesn't tell us much about their pairing (but as somebody pointed out, cayvie does look a bit more suspicious as Jorbles day2 block when his reads may have been getting better)

Although I'm not sure if I've ever seen classic buddying.  I've heard people scream "buddying!" left and right.  It sounds like a really hollow accusation, as people inevitably have to overlap on some of their reads.  I'm sure I've agreed to the arguments of every person in this game at some point.  I think buddying would have to be much more systemic than agreeing with a few reads.  For example, I'm agreeing with some of the things you said in your post (buddying!!), but also pointing out that one phrase in particular is really suspicious (distancing!!), all in the same post (hedging!!!).  Most of those accusations hardly have any teeth with me since they get thrown around like we're all reenacting a modern-day "Boy Who Cried Wolf".

Also, Dsell's case on watno doesn't sound bad, but I don't think I'm really sold yet.

[Eevee]

That's the kind of buddying scum wants to do - they want to befriend town-aligned players because it makes them look good after their flip. Especially ones that might give you a pass if you don't suspect them. But I feel that's mostly a live mafia thing anyways, although I haven't really been scum online so I don't know.

What's that supposed to mean?  Have you fake-been scum?  For some reason this just popped right off the page as something really weird. 

In irl mafia, there are some people (in my experience especially drunk, macho men) who automatically think someone who suspects them is mafia, and someone who voices trust in them is town. So, a scum strategy I have found efficient there has been choosing a guy like that early on, expressing strong town reads on him throughout the game (even voting who he votes etc to show how much I trust his abilities), then leaving him alive until the lylo-situations in the endgame where a town mislynch is super easy to make happen because you've built a mutual trust of the two smart players in the herd of sheep (except he is town and you are mafia). But, I haven't been mafia online (once, but it was my first game), so I don't know if that's a strategy that people use or would work in an online setting where people are smarter and can read back (and for the most part aren't idiotic drunk macho men who can't fathom being wrong. Yeah, stepdad-issues ).

Evaluating Dsell's case on Watno would be easier if Watno got here and posted.

[shraeye]

didn't watno say he was going to Essen?

[Lekkit]

I think he did.

[eHalcyon]

Vote Count 3.3

Captain_Frisk (1): shraeye
cayvie (1): ashersky
ftl (2): cayvie, jotheonah
jotheonah (1): Watno
Lekkit (1): Eevee
Watno (3): Captain_Frisk, ftl, Dsell

Not voting (1): Lekkit

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Lynch deadline: Tuesday, October 30, 5:00pm MDT

[jotheonah]

Can I interest anyone in an ftl case? He's highly lurky and just shamelessly wagoned Watno.

[Dsell]

Can I interest anyone in an ftl case? He's highly lurky and just shamelessly wagoned Watno.

When you say "shamelessly wagoned Watno," do you mean his post directly after this one?

Vote: Watno

[Eevee]

Can I interest anyone in an ftl case? He's highly lurky and just shamelessly wagoned Watno.

The thing is, I find Watno at least as suspicious, so wagoning him isn't such a crime in my mind. Shouldn't be in your either, because you too were on the wagon? I would obviously be open to hearing a case on Ftl, but low post count and voting for Watno isn't nearly enough of a reason for me personally.

Wait, the scummy thing isn't the vote in itself but the way it came that seems opportunistic to you? Now that makes more sense. Also eliminates the possibility of them both being in the same scum team?

[shraeye]

ftl's post was arguably a bit more shameless and sheepy, it seems to me.

Sure, I'll participate, I haven't really been keeping up with my forum games at all though, I've read posts as they come in but haven't done any reading-back or analysis or anything. Vote: Watno ? Is that what the cool kids are doing nowadays?

[jotheonah]

Can I interest anyone in an ftl case? He's highly lurky and just shamelessly wagoned Watno.

The thing is, I find Watno at least as suspicious, so wagoning him isn't such a crime in my mind. Shouldn't be in your either, because you too were on the wagon? I would obviously be open to hearing a case on Ftl, but low post count and voting for Watno isn't nearly enough of a reason for me personally.

Wait, the scummy thing isn't the vote in itself but the way it came that seems opportunistic to you? Now that makes more sense. Also eliminates the possibility of them both being in the same scum team?

I wouldn't go that far. It could be a bus.

[Lekkit]

Is everyone waiting for Watno to return?

[Eevee]

Is everyone waiting for Watno to return?

Yeah, I sleep full 10 hours and this is the only new post?

Everyone, who do you suspect the most and why, and who is most likely to be town and why? I'll answer myself when I get up from bed and to my computer.

[ashersky]

Eevee--I have been on Cayvie for awhile, and maintain that as my biggest scum read, reasoning given previously.  I'd put Joth second, using amazing wifom, etc, to just keep killing with his ice cream.

Watno and Lekkit I think are on the scummy side of neutral, wat for known reasons and Lekkit for lack of content.

You read town to me.  Shraeye, too.

[Eevee]

I suspect Lekkit the most (as is apparent by my vote), but his behavior has changed a lot after I called him out for it (which can be improved town play or trying to change his behavior to survive as mafia). He has been decently active lately, which, regardless of his alignment, is very good for us. Still, generally being pretty lurky but seemingly always being ready to answer meaningless questions (actilurking if you'd like) and also I noted his position on the archetype-wagon day 1 seemed opportunistic (I went back to look after sending in my night action because I felt oh so mafialess). I remember in mafia VIII Lekkit was under suspicion at the same time I was (we were both town), and his behavior there reeked town to me so much that I rather went for a different target than drove his lynch home even though it put my own life in jeopardy. Here, I don't get that town feel from his reactions to my pressure. This case is mostly just gut-based case still, but the facts in this game seem so complicated and confusing, it's the best I have at the moment.

Joth is the most likely town to me. I know I'm alone with this opinion, but I just can't believe eHalcyon would do something that bastardly.

Watno is also a growing suspicion for me, but it's not really fair to let his IRL-busies affect my opinion of him in this game. Essen sounds like a lot of fun.

[Lekkit]

Ok, so here's my rebuttal to Eevee.

I suspect Lekkit the most (as is apparent by my vote), but his behavior has changed a lot after I called him out for it (which can be improved town play or trying to change his behavior to survive as mafia).

Ok. So first you call me out for being lurky. Saying it's a shady behaviour. I got the feeling you wanted me to be more active, which I've tried to be after returning from my vacation. But basically changing this won't change your opinion on me since I could be scum trying to make up for bad play just as much as town doing the same.

He has been decently active lately, which, regardless of his alignment, is very good for us. Still, generally being pretty lurky but seemingly always being ready to answer meaningless questions (actilurking if you'd like)

Hmm... Ok. So I'm decently active but lurky. How is that possible? What do you want me to do? Post a list of the players in falling scumminess order everytime I post something? I guess that could be scummy as well, since it could be me trying to cast suspicion on other players than myslef.

and also I noted his position on the archetype-wagon day 1 seemed opportunistic (I went back to look after sending in my night action because I felt oh so mafialess).

Ok, so first you FoS everyone who didn't agree on your case, and then call people opportunistic when they do? I wasn't sure Archetype was scum untill he posted his terrible (no offense meant, Archetype) defense. And that's when I cast my vote. If you go back and look at it, I was most definately not the only one, and yet I get singled out for it.

I remember in mafia VIII Lekkit was under suspicion at the same time I was (we were both town), and his behavior there reeked town to me so much that I rather went for a different target than drove his lynch home even though it put my own life in jeopardy. Here, I don't get that town feel from his reactions to my pressure.

Because one vote based on a case I don't really feel makes me feel as pressured as when a majority of the town says my lynch is probably the best one? I try not to overreact to being suspected. I think that's the way a lot of scum players react though. But that is based entirely on my own experience. In RMM1 I was super paranoid and jumped everytime my name was even mentioned.

This case is mostly just gut-based case still, but the facts in this game seem so complicated and confusing, it's the best I have at the moment.

So basically what I read here is you noticed I wasn't super active, thought I could be scum because of it, and then everything that could be either a scum or a town move is probably a scum move. I get the feeling that if you were going to play a game of Dominion with me right now and Tunnel was in it, you'd try to get as many as possible. Allright, I know that was pretty bad, but I do feel like you're tunneling me. HARD.

Joth is the most likely town to me. I know I'm alone with this opinion, but I just can't believe eHalcyon would do something that bastardly.

Now, this isn't really about me, but I do actually find it a bit weird that you base your opinion on this guy on your read of eHal. Voltgloss raged pretty hard on eHal in RMM1 because of the amount of trolling he thought eHal did. I really don't think it's impossible that jo has a flavoured kill.

Watno is also a growing suspicion for me, but it's not really fair to let his IRL-busies affect my opinion of him in this game. Essen sounds like a lot of fun.

And when I was at my parents' place playing Dominion my IRL-busies affected your opinion of me. Just sayin'. Essen is a blast, though, and I would highly recommend you to go there sometime.

Watno and Lekkit I think are on the scummy side of neutral, wat for known reasons and Lekkit for lack of content.

So basically you are saying that I've posted the least content out of the players alive? Barring possibly cayvie and jo? And I guess Eevee and shraeye reads town to you because they have posted a lot, right?

As for my own reads, I'm suspicious of jo. The flavor points to him. I haven't really seen anything from him that would indicate that he's scum, though. Eevee and cayvie seems a bit too jumpy, and therefore I'm suspicious of them too. With the risk of sounding opportunistic, I do think Watno and ftl are probably the scummiest around. Watno hasn't posted much, and he's basically only posted paint results or stuff related to that since day 1. I haven't checked, but that's all I can remember him saying. I could be influenced by the general idea that he's a bit suspicious. ftl sounds like the Eevee case on me deluxe.

As far as town reads go, I don't have that much to give. I think it's more likely that CF is an asset to the town, since he's most likely either a Vig or a SK working for the town. shraeye seems more like town that scum to me too. Basically because he's been feeding us with analysis.

[Eevee]

First of all, thanks for answering Lekkit.



[q]Ok. So first you call me out for being lurky. Saying it's a shady behaviour. I got the feeling you wanted me to be more active, which I've tried to be after returning from my vacation. But basically changing this won't change your opinion on me since I could be scum trying to make up for bad play just as much as town doing the same.[/q]
I did say you have been more active lately which is good. In fact you have been one of the most active players the past few days. Just based on them, I'd actually a have a town read on you (which probably speaks a bit about my biases as a mafia player). The thing is, being more active now doesn't erase your earlier play. If you had played like this the entire game, I wouldn't suspect you. You said it yourself - you've made a conscious effort to be more active. I appreciate that, but you could have done it as scum too, right?

[q]Hmm... Ok. So I'm decently active but lurky. How is that possible? What do you want me to do? Post a list of the players in falling scumminess order everytime I post something? I guess that could be scummy as well, since it could be me trying to cast suspicion on other players than myslef.[/q]
That was referring to your earlier play. Recently you've been veryactive, earlier you were on the lurkier side but often came in with quick answers to "easy" questions, which made it seem like you were on/reading a lot despite posting rarely (refers to the time before your holiday obviously). Lately you've been on a lot and posting a lot, which again is good because it helps town and also makes reading you / determining your alignment easier.

[q]Ok, so first you FoS everyone who didn't agree on your case, and then call people opportunistic when they do? I wasn't sure Archetype was scum untill he posted his terrible (no offense meant, Archetype) defense. And that's when I cast my vote. If you go back and look at it, I was most definately not the only one, and yet I get singled out for it.[/q]
You do realize the FoS was only "in effect" in the event Arch flipped scum (which I was quite would happen at the time). Your explanation makes sense though, I noted that it looked like you joined when it looked like the lynch was completely unavoidable, but that's actual quite stupid thinking on my part, that'd be scummy had archetype been mafia, not really now.

[q]So basically what I read here is you noticed I wasn't super active, thought I could be scum because of it, and then everything that could be either a scum or a town move is probably a scum move. I get the feeling that if you were going to play a game of Dominion with me right now and Tunnel was in it, you'd try to get as many as possible. Allright, I know that was pretty bad, but I do feel like you're tunneling me. HARD.[/q]
Now my tunnel joke was better! I do think my concerns were legit, but I also think your rebuttal has answered many of them sufficiently.

[q]Now, this isn't really about me, but I do actually find it a bit weird that you base your opinion on this guy on your read of eHal. Voltgloss raged pretty hard on eHal in RMM1 because of the amount of trolling he thought eHal did. I really don't think it's impossible that jo has a flavoured kill.[/q]
IIRC Volt was raging because he felt eHalcyon made his team underpowered. This is different, this is straight up making one role superunenjoyable to play. And it's not even an interesting mechanic because Joth wouldn't even have been informed about it. Balancing a large role madness game is super hard, even for a master mod like eHalc. Realizing how thoroughly unplayable role joth's would be if he was scum is just common sense. I'm surprised I'm alone with this. Town read on Joth is also based on his reaction to Dsell's accusations, although I guess he would have reacted the same way if he was scum but didn't understand what Dsell is referring to so that's kind of moot.

[q]And when I was at my parents' place playing Dominion my IRL-busies affected your opinion of me. Just sayin'. Essen is a blast, though, and I would highly recommend you to go there sometime. [/q]
I've actually come to realize I'm not much of a gamer in the end. Still, it might be interesting. Maybe we should try to arrange a meetup for european f.ds-regulars!


Unvote Lekkit's explanations felt reasonable both on gut-level and also on factual level. Not saying he's a townread now, but I don't suspect him the most anymore / don't wish others to take a closer look on my case on him (because all my accusations got answered sufficiently). Lekkit, you seem to have more scum reads than town reads this game. Do you remember if this is the case usually? Because I think I'm usually a lot better in getting townreads than scum reads, but here no one (but jo) is looking particularly towny to me which is weird. Might be because the actual mechanics and events of the game are so cloudy and confusing here, I don't know.

[Eevee]

Crap, that tag doesn't work. I'll repost with cursives to make it at least a bit more clear:

Ok. So first you call me out for being lurky. Saying it's a shady behaviour. I got the feeling you wanted me to be more active, which I've tried to be after returning from my vacation. But basically changing this won't change your opinion on me since I could be scum trying to make up for bad play just as much as town doing the same.
I did say you have been more active lately which is good. In fact you have been one of the most active players the past few days. Just based on them, I'd actually a have a town read on you (which probably speaks a bit about my biases as a mafia player). The thing is, being more active now doesn't erase your earlier play. If you had played like this the entire game, I wouldn't suspect you. You said it yourself - you've made a conscious effort to be more active. I appreciate that, but you could have done it as scum too, right?

Hmm... Ok. So I'm decently active but lurky. How is that possible? What do you want me to do? Post a list of the players in falling scumminess order everytime I post something? I guess that could be scummy as well, since it could be me trying to cast suspicion on other players than myslef.
That was referring to your earlier play. Recently you've been veryactive, earlier you were on the lurkier side but often came in with quick answers to "easy" questions, which made it seem like you were on/reading a lot despite posting rarely (refers to the time before your holiday obviously). Lately you've been on a lot and posting a lot, which again is good because it helps town and also makes reading you / determining your alignment easier.

Ok, so first you FoS everyone who didn't agree on your case, and then call people opportunistic when they do? I wasn't sure Archetype was scum untill he posted his terrible (no offense meant, Archetype) defense. And that's when I cast my vote. If you go back and look at it, I was most definately not the only one, and yet I get singled out for it.
You do realize the FoS was only "in effect" in the event Arch flipped scum (which I was quite would happen at the time). Your explanation makes sense though, I noted that it looked like you joined when it looked like the lynch was completely unavoidable, but that's actual quite stupid thinking on my part, that'd be scummy had archetype been mafia, not really now.

So basically what I read here is you noticed I wasn't super active, thought I could be scum because of it, and then everything that could be either a scum or a town move is probably a scum move. I get the feeling that if you were going to play a game of Dominion with me right now and Tunnel was in it, you'd try to get as many as possible. Allright, I know that was pretty bad, but I do feel like you're tunneling me. HARD.
Now my tunnel joke was better! I do think my concerns were legit, but I also think your rebuttal has answered many of them sufficiently.

Now, this isn't really about me, but I do actually find it a bit weird that you base your opinion on this guy on your read of eHal. Voltgloss raged pretty hard on eHal in RMM1 because of the amount of trolling he thought eHal did. I really don't think it's impossible that jo has a flavoured kill.
IIRC Volt was raging because he felt eHalcyon made his team underpowered. This is different, this is straight up making one role superunenjoyable to play. And it's not even an interesting mechanic because Joth wouldn't even have been informed about it. Balancing a large role madness game is super hard, even for a master mod like eHalc. Realizing how thoroughly unplayable role joth's would be if he was scum is just common sense. I'm surprised I'm alone with this. Town read on Joth is also based on his reaction to Dsell's accusations, although I guess he would have reacted the same way if he was scum but didn't understand what Dsell is referring to so that's kind of moot.

And when I was at my parents' place playing Dominion my IRL-busies affected your opinion of me. Just sayin'. Essen is a blast, though, and I would highly recommend you to go there sometime.
I've actually come to realize I'm not much of a gamer in the end. Still, it might be interesting. Maybe we should try to arrange a meetup for european f.ds-regulars!


Unvote Lekkit's explanations felt reasonable both on gut-level and also on factual level. Not saying he's a townread now, but I don't suspect him the most anymore / don't wish others to take a closer look on my case on him (because all my accusations got answered sufficiently). Lekkit, you seem to have more scum reads than town reads this game. Do you remember if this is the case usually? Because I think I'm usually a lot better in getting townreads than scum reads, but here no one (but jo) is looking particularly towny to me which is weird. Might be because the actual mechanics and events of the game are so cloudy and confusing here, I don't know.

[Lekkit]

Those tags confused me at first. Managed to get through the first post without super much difficulty.

Yeah, I tend to have more scumreads than townreads. I think it has to do with my sceptical thinking. I tend to get stuck on small things and I am generally being paranoid when it comes to conspiracies. So in my eyes, everyone's a suspect until they are totally proven otherwise. Some more than others, though.

[cayvie]

I'd put Joth second, using amazing wifom, etc, to just keep killing with his ice cream.

we have confirmation from confirmed town (Galzria) that getting targeted with jo's vanilla ice cream does not kill you. do you think jo has multiple targets at night?

[Eevee]

I'd put Joth second, using amazing wifom, etc, to just keep killing with his ice cream.

we have confirmation from confirmed town (Galzria) that getting targeted with jo's vanilla ice cream does not kill you. do you think jo has multiple targets at night?

Why couldn't he have? That happens in normal games all the time* and this is role madness.

*mafia rolecop for example.

[cayvie]

sure, he could, why not.

it just wouldn't be my first guess. i would think the vegan ice cream village would be designed symmetrically, simply because elegance is attractive to designers.

[Eevee]

sure, he could, why not.

it just wouldn't be my first guess. i would think the vegan ice cream village would be designed symmetrically, simply because elegance is attractive to designers.

Don't get me wrong, I agree on your conclusion on jotheonah. I just think that's not a very valid reason for it.

[cayvie]

it's not the sole reason for it.

i was more wondering if ashersky had forgotten that we knew jo targeted galzria n1.

[ashersky]

it's not the sole reason for it.

i was more wondering if ashersky had forgotten that we knew jo targeted galzria n1.

That is a good point, and I had forgotten.  Adjusting my joth read accordingly.

So what is the best explanation for vanilla ice cream kills, then?  Flavor-stealing ninja?  Seems like just as much of a leap as Joth having multiple targeting ability.  Or someone else borrowing his flavor for it (as much as folks seem to think it was borrowed for killing).

[jotheonah]

Or second, all-scum, non-vegan ice cream neighborhood. Symmetry is attractive to designers.

One problem is that the title of my QT is simply "Ice Cream Neighborhood."  However, when I did BMV I specifically named the two scum team QTs "BMV Scum QT" and "BMV Mafia QT" just so I could keep them straight but the people in them wouldn't know they weren't the only one. So eHalc could have done something similar.

It's a theory that explains both the vanilla kill flavor AND the fact that cayvie got Strawberry Ice Cream even though Jorbles didn't use his power.

[Eevee]

Or second, all-scum, non-vegan ice cream neighborhood. Symmetry is attractive to designers.

One problem is that the title of my QT is simply "Ice Cream Neighborhood."  However, when I did BMV I specifically named the two scum team QTs "BMV Scum QT" and "BMV Mafia QT" just so I could keep them straight but the people in them wouldn't know they weren't the only one. So eHalc could have done something similar.

It's a theory that explains both the vanilla kill flavor AND the fact that cayvie got Strawberry Ice Cream even though Jorbles didn't use his power.

I actually like this theory! It's unfortunate it doesn't bring us any closer to catching anyone specific (right?), but you can't have it all and it's still a very neat way of explaining all the oddities expect for Watno's missing tracking result. Joth, did you answer who do you suspect / trust "properly"? All I remember was your suspicion of me that was actually in another game.

[jotheonah]

I think I did. ftl, Watno, and maybe Dsell although that's a whole thing now.  TBH I need to do some rereading in this game.

[Captain_Frisk]

I'd put Joth second, using amazing wifom, etc, to just keep killing with his ice cream.

we have confirmation from confirmed town (Galzria) that getting targeted with jo's vanilla ice cream does not kill you. do you think jo has multiple targets at night?

In some games, mafia prs can execute kill and their other abilities. Not saying that this happened here, but there is precedent.

[Watno]

I'm back.

I have a question for watno, because I still don't understand the tracking results that we've been given.  If person X is tracked by you and X is targeted by person A, then you see splatter on person A?  What happens if you shoot person X, and person X targets person A?  Is there any paint splatter on the person A?

I "quoted" my role pm earlier, and it's all in there. I target two people, and they have paint all over them (announced in thread). Everyone who targets them gets paint on them, and I can detect that. People targeted by the players I targeted don't get paint on them accoridng to my PM.

while we're on the topic of choosing to ignore it when people attack you

see: ftl, watno

watno in particular. i asked him why he targeted ftl and ashersky:

i want to know why watno, as watcher, targeted who he did.

i would think that a town watcher would target much townier-looking players than ftl and ashersky.

 here was his response:

I targeted ashersky because he told Eevee not to target him, because it's possible Eevee actually wanted to target the mailman despite saying he wouldn't. I think ashersky looked towny for revealing that he targeted Insomniac without any need to so. Also, Galz said that he had figured out his role and thought it wasn't a scum role. Plus he wasn't on the last wagon. So I thought he might be a target for a kill.

Consensus seems to be I should reveal my results, and i see nothing speaking against that: Noone targetted ftl or ashersky tonight (or at least, thats what my info says)

As day 3 begins, two players are completely covered in magenta paint. However, your special colour vision does not detect any traces of magenta paint on any other players!

<<snip>>

no response as to why he targeted ftl! at all! he completely ignored that part of the question.

I didn't ignore you, i explained in #1401 that in fact the secons part of the of the first paragraph you quoted was about ftl, not ashersky. I also find it a bit strange that you missed that as well as the fact that that paragraph would make no sense if i had actually meant ashersky there. I had the feeling your usually more thorough when scumhunting.

The other person he strongly suspected that I still find myself suspecting is Watno. The more I think about the night 1 paint incident, the more it seems that he is the common denominator in Insomniac's death. Frisk may indeed be scum, but two targeted Insom with intent to kill. This means that either Jo is a ninja who happens to kill with his own "flavor," vanilla ice cream scoops or there is a ninja who can also target someone to steal their flavor. They both seem very unlikely and Jo is giving me a very slight town read at this point...I don't think he's a good lynch. So Watno is the common denominator and the simplest solution is that he's lying. He expected there to be just one kill on Insom so that he could frame someone who targeted Insom/Robz (originally Jorbles). Now he's just covering for the fact that he didn't really account for the possibility of two kills.

Vote: Watno

Why wouldn't I just frame 2 people then?

I still think jo is scum. I think it would be very bastard in a game with a title telling us to read the flavour, the flavour would actually suggest someone performed a kill when he actually didn't.

To the people attacking me for lurking: It's true that I'm not posting much, but I don't think it's true that I'm not saying anything. I can't really comment on theories that involve someone being me scumbuddy or me lying about my watching results, that is because I know they are wrong (since I'm town).

[Captain_Frisk]

Starting catchup.  @Watno - your posts are meaty - but that doesn't change the fact that you're not around much.

[Eevee]

Starting catchup.  @Watno - your posts are meaty - but that doesn't change the fact that you're not around much.

I don't think it's fair to blame someone for not having a lot of online time if they post content when they do get in.

[Captain_Frisk]

Starting catchup.  @Watno - your posts are meaty - but that doesn't change the fact that you're not around much.

I don't think it's fair to blame someone for not having a lot of online time if they post content when they do get in.

Not posting and then coming back with a mega analysis is what got me busted in M8.

[Captain_Frisk]

Doesn't look like much happened. 

Eevee had a minor spat with Lekkit

Asher suspects cayvie as a valid scum pair with either Joth or DSell?

Watno returns, posts once and goes away. 

Joth points out that ftl is lurking and opportunistic wagoning. 

FTL is apathetic and hasn't posted since Friday.

Did I miss anything?

[Eevee]

Doesn't look like much happened. 

Eevee had a minor spat with Lekkit

Asher suspects cayvie as a valid scum pair with either Joth or DSell?

Watno returns, posts once and goes away. 

Joth points out that ftl is lurking and opportunistic wagoning. 

FTL is apathetic and hasn't posted since Friday.

Did I miss anything?

Frisks posts information instead of analysis.

[Captain_Frisk]

Guess I also missed Eevee being a wiseass?

[Captain_Frisk]

I guess I still have a week so its not crazy for the game to be slow.  I've just had a long day and was really hoping for something juicy and exciting.

[Eevee]

Guess I also missed Eevee being a wiseass?

Come on now, it was a little funny? To be serious, yes, that is a good description of what has happened.

Deadline is a week from now, the amount of time we have is ok. The general lack of progress however is somewhat worrisome. What are we hoping is going to happen in the following week that hasn't happened already?

[Eevee]

Come on now people! It's not weekend or anything, why is it dead here? If no one has any new arguments, we should move to lynching someone based on what we already have. Anything is better than this silence!

[Voltgloss]

Vote Count 3.4

Captain_Frisk (1): shraeye
cayvie (1): ashersky
ftl (2): cayvie, jotheonah
jotheonah (1): Watno
Watno (3): Captain_Frisk, ftl, Dsell

Not voting (2): Lekkit, Eevee

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Lynch deadline: Tuesday, October 30, 5:00pm MDT

[Captain_Frisk]

Come on now people! It's not weekend or anything, why is it dead here? If no one has any new arguments, we should move to lynching someone based on what we already have. Anything is better than this silence!

Says the guy who isn't voting?  Honestly, I'm kindof at a loss here. 

My unorganized thoughts:

Eevee is chafing me, but that doesn't necessarily read scum.

There's something odd about the DSell / joth / Cayvie triangle.

Either {joth/cayvie} is lying, or {shraeye/asher} recharged {joth/jorbles}

Since Joth and Jorbles both looked kindof scummy (Joth is self admitted vanilla ice cream, Jorbles was a roleblocker - role typically scum aligned), it seems that giving extra shots to them seems anti town.

Watno / Lekkit are my lurker picks.

I still dislike Shraeye from day 1, and he hasn't said much recently, but it seems that this is a forum games wide issue.

I was just double checking to make sure that I had everyone - and I noticed that I forgot FTL was playing again.

[Lekkit]

Reread some of day 1 and 2. Found these:

I agree that Watno is very likely scum, Frisk feels like definite scum to me but probably SK... and then either Joth or Jorbles. Could have two teams in there, perhaps?

The problem is that this gives a huge pass to everyone else. Remember this is Role Madness, and the night actions may influence each other in ways that make no sense unless you're inside eHalc's brain. That's what I think happened with my "steal" not doing anything but getting paint all over me. Or perhaps Watno is just lying about what the paint does entirely.

So, I would still kill one of these people if I were you guys, but don't forget about everybody else. Just because the reasons to lynch me were good doesn't mean everybody participating in my lynch is town.

RobZ - if you're not trollin, do you have any last words for us?

I've given my last words over and over and over again. Something doesn't add up in the Watno department, as you will soon see. Everyone keep in mind that ftl somehow knew I was seaweed, but what does it mean? Joth/Jorbles = 1 scum, probably? Frisk sounds like SK to me. Don't ignore everyone else, but even I think these are the people to focus on.

Robz is a confirmed townie and in my opinion he's a pretty good player. Besides doing weird stuff this game for his meta. I've compared my role PM to the one CF posted and there are stuff there that aren't coherent with mine. The templating is different. The "Flavour name:", "Role name:", "Alignment:" and "Abilities:" should all be bolded. Now this is formatting that wouldn't transfer if you just copied it, but it would if you quoted it and removed the quote information. The same goes for italics, which for some reason is still in that PM.

In my eyes that makes it a fabricated PM. That means I'm pretty inclined to think that CF is actually scum. Whether it's Mafia or SK, I don't really know.

So on one hand we have what in my mind and Robz' words is a definite scum, I still find Watno pretty scummy. He says he's saying stuff, but 13 posts in the last two in game days is pretty bad.

Right now, I would like to lynch Watno based on the fact that I don't really think he says much relating to the game besides providing us with his tracker results. Results that has only been confusing. I would also like to lynch CF for being scum.

I still think jo is pretty suspect, and I wouldn't mind a lynch of him either.

Based on a fabricated PM: Vote: Captain_Frisk

[Lekkit]

Yep, CF wrote his PM himself.  It's a pretty nice flavour you managed there, but eHal didn't write it for you.  I don't really want to tell everyone why I know this, because it wouldn't benefit town since it would be easier for other scum to write their own PMs.

[Lekkit]

Also, if CF flips Mafia, It's pretty obvious that Watno is town. If he flips SK we either have a ninja mafia, a mafia that's lying low or Watno is lying.

[Captain_Frisk]

Sorry Lekkit

1. Didn't fabricate it.
2. If you had proof, why come forward so late?

[Eevee]

Lekkit, the thing is, even if you are right, we are so screwed at the moment we kind of NEED the serial killer to win. So, unless you can offer as a narrative where Frisk could at least possibly be mafia, I don't think we want to lynch him. How could he be mafia?

@Frisk
Lol, I should be voting. Based on Lekkit's last post (forgot it was Robz's wish too) and our general inability to move forward, I'll Vote: Watno too. Not loving it. I suspect cayvie equally much, also ftl and shraeye for disappearing. It's pretty annoying to not have better reads this far in the game, but that's what happens when you live in a ghost town I guess.

[Lekkit]

Sorry Lekkit

1. Didn't fabricate it.

Yes, you did, if town wants to I can prove it too.

2. If you had proof, why come forward so late?

Because I just found it now.

[Eevee]

Sorry Lekkit

1. Didn't fabricate it.

Yes, you did, if town wants to I can prove it too.

2. If you had proof, why come forward so late?

Because I just found it now.

People have mistakes in situations like this earlier (thought they have found something that wasn't there in the end). How big the downside to you proving it would be?

[Lekkit]

If we do not lynch CF he should definately use his ability to kill again. I don't like ftl's lurking, but I'm far more suspicious of jo.

[Lekkit]

Eevee, as it is now, I'm pretty confident most of the people wouldn't be able to write their own PM without me noticing it's wrong.

[Lekkit]

So I guess I kinda just painted a target on my own back. 

[Lekkit]

Eevee, this thing is DEFINATELY here.

[Lekkit]

Also, I'm kinda having a lot of respect for eHal.

[Captain_Frisk]

Eevee, this thing is DEFINATELY here.

Is your misspelling here intentional?

[Captain_Frisk]

Regarding the use of my power tonight.

If we believe that Galz suicided - and that we would naturally only expect 1 kill tonight, then yes I should kill to maintain Odd parity.

If we don't believe that - and that there's another killer out there - then my kill could end up leaving us at 6 people tomorrow.

[Eevee]

Also, I'm kinda having a lot of respect for eHal.

I don't think it's a very fun way to catch scum if you are right (I'd actually prefer if we weren't allowed to paste our pm's altogether now that I think of it. Pretty unfair to us non-native english speakers, I for sure wouldn't be able to write a pm without any grammatical errors let alone make it look like eHalcyon wrote it), but okay. That is definitely super valuable. Assuming you live of course..


Joth still reads super towny to me, I oppose using Frisk to shoot him wholeheartedly. Ftl I could get behind, although would he abandon this game like that if he was mafia? Bozzball conundrum I guess..

@Frisk
Yeah. Lekkit, I think we should treat Frisk as the SK if you are that sure, and have him kill someone tonight. Goes without saying he'll be lynched tomorrow if he fails to follow our instructions.

[jotheonah]

Formatting argument is weaksauce. So many other possible explanations.

When I was modding BMV, I changed some of formatting as I went, and left some formatting undone accidentally. Could just as easily be eHalc's mistake.

[Lekkit]

Yeah, but that isn't really what I'm basing it on right now. It was what led me to find the thing in the first place, though.

[Dsell]

I am getting a HUGE "mafia hunting for the SK" vibe from Lekkit right now. And the way he treats Watno in that post looks like whatever is between distancing and bussing. "Yeah he's suspicious but not quite as suspicious as this other guy" type of deal.

[Lekkit]

If I was mafia, It would make more sense for me to try for another lynch to happen, and then NK Frisk.

[Dsell]

Not when the alternative lynch is your scumbuddy.

[Eevee]

If I was mafia, It would make more sense for me to try for another lynch to happen, and then NK Frisk.

No it wouldn't. Mafia doesn't want any extra kills flying around atm. And "another lynch" might be your or your partner.

... but I don't agree with Dsell. To me Lekkit's realization looks genuine.

[Lekkit]

Dsell: would you be willing to lynch me ATM?

[Dsell]

I can't say for sure, but that's what it looks like to me. Watno is still a higher-priority target for me, but if Watno flips mafia I will be a bit more suspicious of Lekkit, for sure.

And honestly, I'm sure he's right about Frisk. I've pretty much believed him to be scum since whenever he revealed day 2, but today he's a BAD lynch. We really need him to kill mafia in the night. The mafia may decide to kill him or they may leave some wine for the town and leave him alive...I don't really mind either way but we are getting to a point where we really must kill mafia through any means possible.

[Dsell]

Dsell: would you be willing to lynch me ATM?

Ehhhhhhhh I would be a bit hesitant. Watno is the scummiest for me (besides Frisk, who, as I pointed out, we need) and then after that would be cayvie and probably jo, you and ftl are on that list for some lurking and now this. I really think that Watno should be the lynch today, though.

Either 1) we have a flavor-stealing ninja or 2) Watno is scum. Which seems more likely?

[Eevee]

I think Dsell is making a lot of sense. I'd vote for Watno now if I hadn't already. Lets say I'm more confident with my vote now.

[Lekkit]

With the risk of sounding really scummy: Vote: Dsell

What's the advantage of having Watno reveal?

He may indeed be scum, but with the knowledge that Jorbles and Robz are town, their story sorta kinda checks out I gueeeess. At least they weren't all colluding anyway. IF Watno is telling the truth, it means the ice-cream kill was a ninja kill, which does seem a little weird.

Or we could always lynch Frisk who is really still obvscum. (Ok maybe not THAT obvious since there definitely seem to be a number of red herrings and misdirections in the role names/descriptions/flavor.)

And yet you jump all over me for saying it?

The thing that gets me is that either Watno is lying or there is a ninja that's killing with an ice cream scoop. Maybe the simpler thing is to just kill Watno, except that he's reading rather town to me. Ugh...man maybe that is the best thing though.

Basically the reason why you are voting Watno, your town read. This was before he had a lot of votes.

The other person he strongly suspected that I still find myself suspecting is Watno. The more I think about the night 1 paint incident, the more it seems that he is the common denominator in Insomniac's death. Frisk may indeed be scum, but two targeted Insom with intent to kill. This means that either Jo is a ninja who happens to kill with his own "flavor," vanilla ice cream scoops or there is a ninja who can also target someone to steal their flavor. They both seem very unlikely and Jo is giving me a very slight town read at this point...I don't think he's a good lynch. So Watno is the common denominator and the simplest solution is that he's lying. He expected there to be just one kill on Insom so that he could frame someone who targeted Insom/Robz (originally Jorbles). Now he's just covering for the fact that he didn't really account for the possibility of two kills.

Vote: Watno

But after people started to suspect him you explained what you said earlier, this time with a vote. And this time he read scum to you. Seems pretty much like a bus to me.

[Captain_Frisk]

I have no issue with voting for someone you have previously (a week ago stated as a town read)

This reminds me of MIV - where Pops, Joth, DSell and I had all failed to lynch scum O on day 2.  Nobody suspected DSell - AND HE WAS THE SCUM.  We're all (except me ) good enough at being scum that looking at your town reads from time to time can make sense.

A day 3 post from me in that game.

Anyway, the discussion is distracting at this point, and it's not surprising at all that Frisk and Jo want that distraction.

The discussion is a distraction that you started with what I considered to bad reasoning - so I called it out.

However - agreed with everyone that we should be hunting mafia - not SK - at least until at least 1 more mafia goes down.  We do have confirmed mafia in the game (there is at least 1 remaining), and we don't even know if there is SK.

-- back on target --

So there are 4 of us (myself, DSell, Jonah, and Pops) of which we expect at least 1 to be mafia.  3 of us false lynched Axxle1. 

RobZ has cleared pops for some reason I don't understand.

J is J - Pops thinks he's town - Glooble thinks he's town.

I am not mafia - nobody suspected me in the Tables hunt - and then I failed to vote for O and now I look scummy as hell.

DSell - nobody suspects him as far as I know.

Does that summarize our likely suspects?

[Lekkit]

Yeah, I think you are allowed to change your opinion on people. However, Dsell said day 1 that Watno was scummy. Next time he mentioned Watno he was town. Then he pretty much had to be scum, but he was a town read, so we should probably lynch you instead, then when I say it, it's something that super scummy.

[Watno]

Either 1) we have a flavor-stealing ninja or 2) Watno is scum. Which seems more likely?

Or 3) Joth is a ice-cream-killer-ninja. That one seems most likely to me (though I admit I have an information advantage there). I still don't get how what I did would have made sense if I was scum.

I'm also still pretty sure that Frisk is SK and we shouldn't lynch him because we stand no chance otherwise. I really don't see any reason to doubt that Galz suicided at this point either.

[cayvie]

i don't buy the fabricated pm evidence.

i wasn't consistent with the PMs in mafia IX (i think shraeye's card name wasn't bolded, for example? something like that), i don't see a reason to assume ehal was 100% consistent.

i think in MVI, O intentionally formatted the PMs differently from each other.

[Eevee]

i don't buy the fabricated pm evidence.

i wasn't consistent with the PMs in mafia IX (i think shraeye's card name wasn't bolded, for example? something like that), i don't see a reason to assume ehal was 100% consistent.

i think in MVI, O intentionally formatted the PMs differently from each other.

But Lekkit said he is sure.. I tried to ask him sure no matter what, he said yes.

[Dsell]

Either 1) we have a flavor-stealing ninja or 2) Watno is scum. Which seems more likely?

Or 3) Joth is a ice-cream-killer-ninja. That one seems most likely to me (though I admit I have an information advantage there). I still don't get how what I did would have made sense if I was scum.

Yes, this is a fair possibility too. But it still doesn't seem terribly likely to me. At least, I believe you are more likely, though I admit to being pretty confused about my read on Jo as a whole since the whole me-him debacle.

[jotheonah]

Either 1) we have a flavor-stealing ninja or 2) Watno is scum. Which seems more likely?

Or 3) Joth is a ice-cream-killer-ninja. That one seems most likely to me (though I admit I have an information advantage there). I still don't get how what I did would have made sense if I was scum.

I'm also still pretty sure that Frisk is SK and we shouldn't lynch him because we stand no chance otherwise. I really don't see any reason to doubt that Galz suicided at this point either.

Yes. I have a ninja kill that comes with an obv. flavor caling card. That is truly ridiculous. It would completely negate the value of a ninja kill, not to mention its flavor.

[Dsell]

I mean, yeah. I'm just saying it's a fair possibility.

[shraeye]

Or second, all-scum, non-vegan ice cream neighborhood. Symmetry is attractive to designers.

One problem is that the title of my QT is simply "Ice Cream Neighborhood."  However, when I did BMV I specifically named the two scum team QTs "BMV Scum QT" and "BMV Mafia QT" just so I could keep them straight but the people in them wouldn't know they weren't the only one. So eHalc could have done something similar.

It's a theory that explains both the vanilla kill flavor AND the fact that cayvie got Strawberry Ice Cream even though Jorbles didn't use his power.

This is essentially the conspiracy theory you had before, right?  I liked that one, but I recall it getting shot down somehow.  Well I forgot how it got shot down, and this still looks like a decent theory to me.  I just am trying to figure out how much of the weirdness it still leaves unexplained.

The other person he strongly suspected that I still find myself suspecting is Watno. The more I think about the night 1 paint incident, the more it seems that he is the common denominator in Insomniac's death. Frisk may indeed be scum, but two targeted Insom with intent to kill. This means that either Jo is a ninja who happens to kill with his own "flavor," vanilla ice cream scoops or there is a ninja who can also target someone to steal their flavor. They both seem very unlikely and Jo is giving me a very slight town read at this point...I don't think he's a good lynch. So Watno is the common denominator and the simplest solution is that he's lying. He expected there to be just one kill on Insom so that he could frame someone who targeted Insom/Robz (originally Jorbles). Now he's just covering for the fact that he didn't really account for the possibility of two kills.

Vote: Watno

Why wouldn't I just frame 2 people then?

I still think jo is scum. I think it would be very bastard in a game with a title telling us to read the flavour, the flavour would actually suggest someone performed a kill when he actually didn't.

My explanation for why you wouldn't have framed 2 people, is that you had a plan down all along to bus your scumbuddy by having him kill insomniac and you would gain towncred by having tracked the scum.  Then you saw that somebody else did, so you jumped at the chance to frame them instead.
I don't know so much about jo being scum.  The flavor points to him, but common sense just doesn't.  That and his posts smack of towniness, read my analysis of him from earlier in the day.

Doesn't look like much happened. 

Eevee had a minor spat with Lekkit

Asher suspects cayvie as a valid scum pair with either Joth or DSell?

Watno returns, posts once and goes away. 

Joth points out that ftl is lurking and opportunistic wagoning. 

FTL is apathetic and hasn't posted since Friday.

Did I miss anything?

This really looks like you apathetically checked out of what you called "the best game right now" sometime earlier.  I was playing around with the idea that Frisk could be mafia instead of SK, but I don't really get this.  He would then be fighting to be "a good townie" and never get lynched, and he knows he's safe from the night-kills.  But this doesn't feel like somebody who is interested at all in this game.  Is this apathy because you are bored of being a town-directed SK that can't do anything other than wait for a mafia NK, or a town-lynch?

Either 1) we have a flavor-stealing ninja or 2) Watno is scum. Which seems more likely?

Or 3) Joth is a ice-cream-killer-ninja. That one seems most likely to me (though I admit I have an information advantage there). I still don't get how what I did would have made sense if I was scum.

I'm also still pretty sure that Frisk is SK and we shouldn't lynch him because we stand no chance otherwise. I really don't see any reason to doubt that Galz suicided at this point either.

Yes. I have a ninja kill that comes with an obv. flavor caling card. That is truly ridiculous. It would completely negate the value of a ninja kill, not to mention its flavor.

Here is one of the reasons I'm not quite buying that joth is ninja.  What a dumb ninja role it would be if your flavor was wiped all over your targets, AND two townies knew your flavor...I just don't see it.

[shraeye]

And honestly, I'm sure he's right about Frisk. I've pretty much believed him to be scum since whenever he revealed day 2, but today he's a BAD lynch. We really need him to kill mafia in the night. The mafia may decide to kill him or they may leave some wine for the town and leave him alive...I don't really mind either way but we are getting to a point where we really must kill mafia through any means possible.

I also agree with Dsell that Frisk is obvscum and obviously the SK to me, but it's true that we need him to stay alive so that he can kill mafia tonight.  There is the parity argument i think that somebody brought up, which doesn't make too much sense to me.  But I totally agree with this: "we are getting to a point where we really must kill mafia through any means possible."

So unvote for now, I'll do some reading tomorrow, but it's almost 3am now and I'm super tired.  This Monday-funday was a really long one for me (obviously as it stretched until Tuesday night).

[Eevee]

Some people (Lekkit  maybe (?) first, and now shraeye) mention the possibility of Frisk being mafia. Are just saying it or have you actually thought of a theory that you haven't explained to us? Every time I try to build ŕ narrative where Frisk is anything but the strangling sk/vig, I hit ŕ wall somewhere and become certain it's almost impossible. I'm asking because if Frisk might be mafia, me thinking of him as unlynchable for being too valuable is really stupid.

Also shraeye, who are your town and scum reads? You've somehow flown completely under my radar today, and I'm generally starting to think that's not a good sign at all because mafia keeps being those guys in every game.

[Dsell]

Well it comes down to the fact that there were two ice cream kills and only one strangley kill, right? I guess if he was actually the ice-cream guy, probably no one was gonna claim being the strangley guy. But that also means that the strangley guy was just one-shot (or lucky doctor or something) and it means that Frisk ignored our request to not kill last night. I guess it's a really, really remote possibility.

[Eevee]

Simple way to explain the parity-argument: assume two mafia alive. With 6 players total, all four townies need to vote for the same mafioso for ŕ scum lynch to be possible. With 5 players total, all townies still need to get it right, but with one less townie alive to make ŕ mistake, it's easier to make that happen. Basically in even parity situations the last townie can only harm us with his vote.

[Eevee]

Well it comes down to the fact that there were two ice cream kills and only one strangley kill, right? I guess if he was actually the ice-cream guy, probably no one was gonna claim being the strangley guy. But that also means that the strangley guy was just one-shot (or lucky doctor or something) and it means that Frisk ignored our request to not kill last night. I guess it's a really, really remote possibility.

If Frisk wasnt the strangler, why would he claim that and not cop or some mad role that targeted Ins? He would have been instantly counterclaimed if the real strangler was ŕ town vig, or caught the following day when the serial killer continued strangling people, no future with that lie.

[Dsell]

Exactly. It's a really, really far-fetched set of assumptions to believe that Frisk is not the strangler. And if he's not the strangler then it looks very very much like he's not mafia.

[Eevee]

Exactly. It's a really, really far-fetched set of assumptions to believe that Frisk is not the strangler. And if he's not the strangler then it looks very very much like he's not mafia.

Which is why I absolutely think we need him alive. And why I was asking shraeye and Lekkit if they have thought of something I haven't, because if that assumption isn't true, we might absolutely not want him alive..

I also believe we should instruct him to shoot someone tonight, unless someone has any arguments why he shouldn't? But essentially finding two lynch targets should be twice as hard as finding one, so I'd hope we started moving a bit faster..

Thoughts on this, people?

[jotheonah]

the problem is, when someone gets L-1ed they get to claim. when someone gets strangled, notsomuch.

[Eevee]

the problem is, when someone gets L-1ed they get to claim. when someone gets strangled, notsomuch.

Can't we just decide on the target today with the claims and everything and then just have Frisk carry out the deed at night? Only difference is ŕ delayed flip?

[cayvie]

the problem is, when someone gets L-1ed they get to claim. when someone gets strangled, notsomuch.

Can't we just decide on the target today with the claims and everything and then just have Frisk carry out the deed at night? Only difference is ŕ delayed flip?

and that, if he's a vig, scum will know whether or not to roleblock/bus drive/misdirect him

[Eevee]

the problem is, when someone gets L-1ed they get to claim. when someone gets strangled, notsomuch.

Can't we just decide on the target today with the claims and everything and then just have Frisk carry out the deed at night? Only difference is ŕ delayed flip?

and that, if he's a vig, scum will know whether or not to roleblock/bus drive/misdirect him

Shoot, I forgot it's madness.

Humm well, a serial killer wants to lynch mafia at this situation, right? Is giving Frisk free hands ŕ terrible idea?

[ashersky]

the problem is, when someone gets L-1ed they get to claim. when someone gets strangled, notsomuch.

Can't we just decide on the target today with the claims and everything and then just have Frisk carry out the deed at night? Only difference is ŕ delayed flip?

and that, if he's a vig, scum will know whether or not to roleblock/bus drive/misdirect him

Shoot, I forgot it's madness.

Humm well, a serial killer wants to lynch mafia at this situation, right? Is giving Frisk free hands ŕ terrible idea?

Leaving him alive is essentially the same thing.  We're saying we trust him to work for the best interests of the town, at least for tonight.  We'd be re-having this convo tomorrow if he survives anyway, so really, he can do what he wants tonight.

[Captain_Frisk]

This really looks like you apathetically checked out of what you called "the best game right now" sometime earlier.  I was playing around with the idea that Frisk could be mafia instead of SK, but I don't really get this.  He would then be fighting to be "a good townie" and never get lynched, and he knows he's safe from the night-kills.  But this doesn't feel like somebody who is interested at all in this game.  Is this apathy because you are bored of being a town-directed SK that can't do anything other than wait for a mafia NK, or a town-lynch?

What you see as apathy was me catching up after being away from thread for 3 days.  It is true that I have a little frustration that the entire town sees me as obv scum, so even if I did have some solid reads, you'd all ignore me anyway, and its a role madness game in which I'm not allowed to use my role.  Basically - I feel like my role has been switched to Hated Vanilla Townie.

Actual admitted apathy is FTL - but I can't really fault him for that for reasons that would be illegal to discuss.  Sometimes games just don't work for you.

[Lekkit]

Frisk, I think you'r reads are valuable. If you are SK you'd want to get rid of mafia just as bad as we are. If you are a vig (which I find highly unlikely) you'd want to get rid of mafia. The only scenario where you wouldn't want to get rid of mafia is the one where you are mafia yourself, and that's really unlikely to me.

[Captain_Frisk]

Baby - I love you but I can't leave my wife until the kids are out of school!  Just 3 more years.

[Captain_Frisk]

But seriously, can we get an FTL prod?  No post since 8/19, and he was definitely on the forums yesterday based on other posts.

Vote: FTL

[Voltgloss]

Vote Count 3.5

cayvie (1): ashersky
ftl (3): cayvie, jotheonah, Captain_Frisk
jotheonah (1): Watno
Watno (3): ftl, Dsell, Eevee
Dsell (1): Lekkit

Not voting (1): shraeye

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Lynch deadline: Tuesday, October 30, 5:00pm MDT

[Captain_Frisk]

@Volt - did you prod FTL - or are you waiting for ehalc

[Voltgloss]

@Volt - did you prod FTL - or are you waiting for ehalc

Prod sent.

[shraeye]

Some people (Lekkit  maybe (?) first, and now shraeye) mention the possibility of Frisk being mafia. Are just saying it or have you actually thought of a theory that you haven't explained to us? Every time I try to build ŕ narrative where Frisk is anything but the strangling sk/vig, I hit ŕ wall somewhere and become certain it's almost impossible. I'm asking because if Frisk might be mafia, me thinking of him as unlynchable for being too valuable is really stupid.

Also shraeye, who are your town and scum reads? You've somehow flown completely under my radar today, and I'm generally starting to think that's not a good sign at all because mafia keeps being those guys in every game.

I'm going to send out reads after I do some rereading, I haven't critically looked at my read list since joth made the jump from scum to town a while back.

As for Frisk as mafia theory, I think you misread me some.

I was playing around with the idea that Frisk could be mafia instead of SK, but I don't really get this.

I still very convinced that Frisk is SK.

[ftl]

Been prodded. Sorry, I'm not paying much attention to my forum games now. I'm not scum, don't lynch me. I can claim if you want and lekkit can verify my PM using whatever method he has.

Volt/eH, you can replace me if there's anyone else interested in joining.

Advertisement for recruiting a new me if any spectators are reading along: I actually have a pretty cool role! You want to try it! My lack of participation has nothing to do with an uninteresting role, trust me!

Actual admitted apathy is FTL - but I can't really fault him for that for reasons that would be illegal to discuss.  Sometimes games just don't work for you.

I have no idea what you mean.

I still like my vote on Watno. If he's not scum, why didn't he see the other person who killed Ins, if it wasn't Robz? Or maybe Frisk has a doubleflavor kill and is mafia.  Or we have a ninja mafia who doesn't care about a watcher. I'll just sheep whatever everyone else decides.

[Watno]

I think we need to give Frisk a free hand tonight. I agree it's pretty much impossible he's Mafia, and therefore wants to find them as much as town does.
Lekkit, can your magical ability to detect fakeclaims prove that I'm town?

I stioll think weshould lynch jo. Someone else killing with his flavour in a declared non-bastard game where flavour is supposed to matter doesn't make sense for me.

[Lekkit]

Watno's claim contains eHal's flavour. That's all I can say.

[Lekkit]

Or rather, the Abilities part.

[Eevee]

Flavor mattering doesn't necessarily mean everything has to be exactly like it seems. That being said, we haven't really been able to decipher much from flavor this far, have we? Maybe scum has gotten something though? Or maybe the flavor will come into play later. Or maybe eHalc just really wanted us to read the flavor he puts so much work into.
I digress, what I meant to say was that the only person I want to lynch less than joth is myself (well maybe Frisk too, it's weird to not want probable scum dead). Mostly goes to show how vague my reads on everyone else are.

PPE @Lekkit
No one is disputing Watno being a watcher though, right? So that doesn't say much, couldn't he just have changed his alignment and nothing else?

[Lekkit]

Yeah, that is true. I realised this earlier today. But at least people cannot make up their own abilities.

[Captain_Frisk]

Vote Count 3.5

cayvie (1): ashersky
ftl (3): cayvie, jotheonah, Captain_Frisk
jotheonah (1): Watno
Watno (3): ftl, Dsell, Eevee
Dsell (1): Lekkit

Not voting (1): shraeye

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Lynch deadline: Tuesday, October 30, 5:00pm MDT

All right folks - it looks like we have 2 viable wagons.

Watno and FTL

The case against watno: Infrequent poster.  Possible tracker liar - although I'm having a tough time figuring that out.  Why would he watch someone he intended to kill?  To pretend like we have a ninja killer?  Get lucky with a frame since this is role madness?

Actually - this does make a little sense.  He targets 2 people, everyone gets covered with paint.  It's role madness, so people are going to be painted all over the place. 

Imagine the hijinx if if I was a cop and had copped RobZ instead.  Watno could claim that I targeted insomniac, and I'd be forced to roleclaim.  You guys could lynch me, and Watno would still be able to claim true results!  If he caught 2 people, then we'd probably 1-2 lynch them until finally got back Watno.  As scum?  I'd totally do that.  I'd be perfectly happy going into Day 4 down 1 scum and 5 town. 

FTL: Recently apathetic.  Has asked to place out.  Hasn't been around much day 2.  We don't have any thing hard on him though.  I just skimmed him and he's been pretty active (168 posts).  Nothing has stood out as particularly scummy, apart from his opportunistic Watno vote, which I'm having less and less issue with after some ruminating.

Vote: Watno

[cayvie]

i'm happy with a watno lynch.

vote: watno

L-1

[Dsell]

Strangle well, Frisk.

[Eevee]

Frisk mentioning postcounts made me realize we haven't had any in a while. Maybe this will have a bearing on Frisk's strangling decision (you indeed have a permission now!) or something.

This is including everything:
Eevee: 206
Captain Frisk: 174
Ftl: 168
Dsell: 167
jotheonah: 154
cayvie: 127
shraeye: 109
ashersky: 73
watno: 38


So, somewhat even except for ashersky, shraeye and maybe cayvie being on the quieter side (to Ashersky's and shraeye's defence they tend to make longer posts) and Watno being like super lurky like we all had noticed (I hadn't noticed it was that excessive though). The most interesting thing to me was that cayvie is WAY more silent than she usually is (I recall her often leading these things?). We've never seen mafia cayvie, so I think that's definitely a change in behavior worth noting. Watno's 38 makes me feel good about the lynch we are heading towards, and I actually don't mind someone hammering so we can finally get this game moving. I think everyone has said what they have in mind by now.. Frisk, we need you to do good now!

[Dsell]

I've felt a LOT more suspicious of cayvie in this game than any other game. She usually seems like obvtown to me, though, so it's not as though she's at the top of my suspicion list. But it's something worth noting.

[Eevee]

I've felt a LOT more suspicious of cayvie in this game than any other game. She usually seems like obvtown to me, though, so it's not as though she's at the top of my suspicion list. But it's something worth noting.

This describes my feelings on her pretty well. It's mostly just NOT having a town read on her and now also the lack of posts I just realized.

[shraeye]

Ugh, no hammers until I have time to post up my reads please, I hated the way it felt like I couldn't contribute in day 2, when I was away for most of the discussion and could only chime in at the end.  I really don't want today to be the same issue.  I'm going to a dinner now, then will do reads when I get back.

[Dsell]

Unvote until Shraeye can post his reads. Will revote after, presumably.

[cayvie]

huh, that's interesting

i usually have no idea how much i'm posting--i remember the first couple times the postcounts came out on this forum, i was really surprised to see myself at/near the top.

not scum, though; dunno what it means.

[Eevee]

Sorry shraeye, I should have remembered given how I was the one to ask for them.. This game moves so slowly I can't even remember what I have posted myself, sigh.

Hey, actually got an idea that might help with that: Everyone does a reread on one player (say the next living player from the player list in the OP) during the night and then summarizes his findings at the start of tomorrow. Reading through the whole thread would be a daunting task, but this way we could have a look back without exhausting ourselves completely. If someone doesn't have the time or doesn't feel like doing it, it's obviously fine and some rereading would still be better than no rereading (and others can fill in tomorrow if they so desire). Good idea?

[cayvie]

i'm cool with that, eevee.

if any mafia are next to each other in the list, we could force them to actually express opinions on each other, which is always a good time.

[Dsell]

That's actually a really cool idea, I like it.

[Watno]

Well. have fun with this game guys. Maybe you one say you all will realize that you cant tell if someone is scum simply from a number. I said everything that needed to be said, and you should realize that most times the simple explanation is the right one. Joth is obvscum, and my next best guess is cayvie. Good night.

[Captain_Frisk]

Frisk mentioning postcounts made me realize we haven't had any in a while. Maybe this will have a bearing on Frisk's strangling decision (you indeed have a permission now!) or something.

This is including everything:
Eevee: 206
Captain Frisk: 174
Ftl: 168
Dsell: 167
jotheonah: 154
cayvie: 127
shraeye: 109
ashersky: 73
watno: 38


So, somewhat even except for ashersky, shraeye and maybe cayvie being on the quieter side (to Ashersky's and shraeye's defence they tend to make longer posts) and Watno being like super lurky like we all had noticed (I hadn't noticed it was that excessive though). The most interesting thing to me was that cayvie is WAY more silent than she usually is (I recall her often leading these things?). We've never seen mafia cayvie, so I think that's definitely a change in behavior worth noting. Watno's 38 makes me feel good about the lynch we are heading towards, and I actually don't mind someone hammering so we can finally get this game moving. I think everyone has said what they have in mind by now.. Frisk, we need you to do good now!

Eevee these post counts are wrong.  The double count people Wyeth the same iOS / fun suck it's usernames.

[Captain_Frisk]

Wytheth = with

Fun suck it = intentional commentary

[Captain_Frisk]

iOS = iso .... iPad override

[cayvie]

eevee: 208
captain_frisk: 177
dsell: 170
jotheonah: 154
cayvie: 129
shraeye: 110
ftl: 84
ashersky: 73
lekkit: 68
watno: 39

[Eevee]

Shoot, you are right Frisk. I went back to check and only ftl's were wrong. Fixed count:

Eevee: 206
Captain Frisk: 174
Dsell: 167
jotheonah: 154
cayvie: 127
shraeye: 109
ftl: 84
ashersky: 73
watno: 38

[Eevee]

yeah mine was outdated. Sorry about the confusion, cayvie has it right.

[cayvie]

also lekkit is a player in the game, eevee

[cayvie]

it's interesting, though; i sort of hadn't fathomed how far behind everyone else watno was in postcount until i saw these numbers. i wasn't considering him a lurker lynch at all.

[Watno]

If I wasn't going to bed now, I'd make 60 posts counting from 40 to 100 now. Maybe that would help you realize that that number on its own doesn't mean anything...
Anyway good night for real this time.

[Captain_Frisk]

If I wasn't going to bed now, I'd make 60 posts counting from 40 to 100 now. Maybe that would help you realize that that number on its own doesn't mean anything...
Anyway good night for real this time.

Going to bed at 8pm?  Is your forum profile not accurate?

[cayvie]

i thought watno was german, where going to bed now makes sense

[Captain_Frisk]

It would also explain the Essen trip

[jotheonah]

I like Eevee's idea about rereads. I'm not sure if I am currently voting for Watno, or whether I should hammer if I'm not. Vote count?

[jotheonah]

Ok, I'm not. I am expressing intent to hammer. I will give people time to object.

[Captain_Frisk]

Dsell unvoted, so I think we are back to l-2

[Dsell]

Also Shraeye still hasn't posted his reads, I'm waiting on that.

[Eevee]

Ok, I'm not. I am expressing intent to hammer. I will give people time to object.

Not 100% certain, but pretty sure that Watno is now at 5 votes (L-2) with you and Dsell expressing intent to vote for him. We at least got to wait for shraeye to post his reads.

EVERYONE being ok with Watno's lynching is somewhat worrisome, but at this point his teammates would probably be willing ok with bussing him just as well because his lynch looks so inevitable, so I guess I shouldn't read that much into that. Usually lynches that look inevitable have been town though..

Frisk and Dsell posted already I see, writing this took a long time because I was busy beating Grujah at Iso (okay to be fair it was 2-2 total).

[jotheonah]

nooo, that's a good point.

[Eevee]

Yeah Unvote. I've gone against my instinct too many times, and I'm not liking this.

[jotheonah]

but now we need a new target.

[Eevee]

Lekkit, ashersky and watno himself are the only ones to not vote for Watno or express interest in voting for him. That's just.. too much people with probably 3 or even 4 scum (assuming one scum team from the kills, 15 player game). Even if there are two scum teams, the point still stand.

Vote: cayvie We still have 5 days, I think it's enough to find a better target. We are too far in the game to policylynch anyone for lurking, and I think the other aspects of the case against Watno are easily compensated by the fact that he was just too easy to lynch.

[Dsell]

Seriously? Do you think that at least one scum is going to defend their buddy even when the lynch is viable and looks likely?

1. No scum has yet been killed, so scum probably thinks bussing is safe enough, and important in order to blend in. 2. The case on Watno is very reasonable, so arguing against it is going to look fairly scummy, and 3. if you don't believe Watno is scum, you still have to accept that jo is a ninja who kills with his own flavor or that there's a flavor-stealing ninja out there.

[Captain_Frisk]

Eevee - we need 6 to lynch.  That's 4 people not voting for him.  If you are out off by 3 not being cool with it, it's going to be hard to lynch a scum team (expected size of 3+ in a game this size)

Also, shraeye isn't voting him currently.  He may have in the past, but bussers gonna bus.

[Dsell]

This is maybe a bad argument that should probably be ignored for now, but if Watno flips scum, I think Eevee's last post reflects badly on both himself and cayvie. It's probably ridiculous to be seeing scum teams at this point but if one or more of them flips scum, don't forget this interaction right here.

For the record, the reason I think it's scummy is because it could be scum-Eevee distancing himself from scum-cayvie and perhaps trying to derail the lynch of scum-Watno. Even if it's not a derail, I don't think Eevee would be strongly suspected after Watno flips scum (if he does), so Eevee having his vote on cayvie makes her look a little better.

^^^^Again, largely a conspiracy theory that I don't think should be given a lot of weight at this point.

[Captain_Frisk]

Ninjadby dsell.

Dsell do you kill with ice cream?

[Dsell]

I most certainly do not!

[Eevee]

Seriously? Do you think that at least one scum is going to defend their buddy even when the lynch is viable and looks likely?

1. No scum has yet been killed, so scum probably thinks bussing is safe enough, and important in order to blend in. 2. The case on Watno is very reasonable, so arguing against it is going to look fairly scummy, and 3. if you don't believe Watno is scum, you still have to accept that jo is a ninja who kills with his own flavor or that there's a flavor-stealing ninja out there.

Blerggggh.

Well, my unvote at least serves the purpose of thinking everything through here. Seriously, that can't be bad, right?

So, the case against Watno, other than his lurking, is that him lying from his tracking results is the easiest way to explain the missing tracking result from day 1, right? I admit that any other explanation (than Watno lying) is pretty unlikely, but... so is Watno lying tbh? Like.. watno doesnt have that much to gain from the lie? I recall Frisk pointing this out already, but.. if Watno is scum, is this really the lie he wants to make at that point? Also, Watno being a relatively inexperienced player, would he even be capable of going for a bold scum play like this?

Jo being a ninja that kills with his own flavor is extremely unlikely to me, because I find joth being scum extremely unlikely. Could there be any possibility where both joth and Watno were town? Mafia-Frisk ninjakilling Insomniac & stealing Joth's flavor and someone else being a serial killer that missed night 2 that isn't Frisk killing Insomniac too and Frisk claiming vig still without realizing the downsides of the claim?

Uhm okay.. Vote: watno again. His teammates bussing him is more likely than the explanation above, and my town read on Joth is stronger than my bad feeling about this lynch. Here is to hoping my gut has failed me again..

PPE: 4.

[Eevee]

My reads in case I die at night:

I know I suspected Dsell earlier, but lately he has seemed very towny (mostly because he is helpful and seems interested in solving what's going on, an attribute I can't attach to that many players. No real town reads other than Dsell and Joth (joth is the strongest!!), mayyybe Lekkit because he too has been invested and interested lately (I do realize I have a bias on thinking guys who post a lot are town). Top scum reads (other than Watno) are cayvie and maybe ftl. Idk, it's pretty sad Watno's flip won't directly tell us anything about any other player, but I guess the re-reads might shed some light into matters. The guys who haven't commented on the idea, what do you think about it? Either way, anyone who feels it's good, I encourage you to do it!

[cayvie]

I find it interesting that this is the second time this game watno's been at L-1 this game and then people started unvoting. Idk. I know, it was me who started it last time.

[Eevee]

I find it interesting that this is the second time this game watno's been at L-1 this game and then people started unvoting. Idk. I know, it was me who started it last time.

What do you make of it?

[cayvie]

being hard to lynch--especially when you put up little resistance--is worth like 5 scum points. not too many, but some. certainly makes me feel more comfortable about lynching him today than i did day 1.

[cayvie]

Idk, it's pretty sad Watno's flip won't directly tell us anything about any other player, but I guess the re-reads might shed some light into matters.

wait, what?
what?

this sounds like you're scum.

[jotheonah]

3. if you don't believe Watno is scum, you still have to accept that jo is a ninja who kills with his own flavor or that there's a flavor-stealing ninja out there.

this is not true. please back up this statement.

[Eevee]

Okay guys (especially Dsell and joth), I think cayvie is more likely to be scum than Watno despite all the evisdence, what should I do? That last response just.. idk, my lizard brain is going all crazy here.

[cayvie]

unvote

what do you mean, watno's flip won't tell us about anyone else's alignment?

[Captain_Frisk]

Agreed, but town joth pulled the same shit in mxii.

Eevee, what are you hoping for? 

[Eevee]

unvote

what do you mean, watno's flip won't tell us about anyone else's alignment?

Who in your opinion is directly implicated by Watno flipping town or scum?

@Frisk
Idk, despite all evidence pointing to Watno.. I feel unease. On a gut level, this lynch does not feel good to me.

[Dsell]

3. if you don't believe Watno is scum, you still have to accept that jo is a ninja who kills with his own flavor or that there's a flavor-stealing ninja out there.

this is not true. please back up this statement.

Watno is town means Watno is telling the truth about who he watched night 1. Only Frisk targeted Insom/Robz. However, there were 2 kills. Meaning that there is a ninja. Now, that ninja could either be you, because you are vanilla ice (cream man) or it could be someone else (also a ninja!) stealing your flavor.

Ok I guess there's also the remote possibility that there's another ice-cream neighborhood that kills with flavor. But those would still have to be ninja kills. And who ever heard of a ninja killing by bashing someone in the head with an ice cream scoop?

[Dsell]

Eevee, aren't you drunk? Maybe just unvote until you're surer of your reads in the morning.

[jotheonah]

Hmmm. I'm having the same problem as Eevee. Gut vs. logic. But, you're right. Watno being scum ties night 1 together better than anything else.

[cayvie]

unvote

what do you mean, watno's flip won't tell us about anyone else's alignment?

Who in your opinion is directly implicated by Watno flipping town or scum?

let me rephrase.

you said, "Idk, it's pretty sad Watno's flip won't directly tell us anything about any other player."

why did you say this? is it normal for flips to do so? why is this one particularly sad?

it sounds like you're saying words just to say words; ie, you're making stuff up to blend in.

also, a scum watno exonerates jotheonah pretty hardcore in my eyes. it's not perfect, but i don't see a plausible way for them to be on the same scum team. it's only a town watno that would say nothing in particular about anyone.

[Captain_Frisk]

Eevee - apart from counter claims, how many times has a flip implicated someone else correctly?

[Eevee]

Eevee, aren't you drunk? Maybe just unvote until you're surer of your reads in the morning.

Am I making no sense?
I've drank a bottle of wine, but I like to think my judgement is still intact.. might not be though? Don't take my admittedly horrible spelling/grammar in the last posts as an indication of that though, I've just been too eager to get my opinions across to proofread. If I didn't check my posts before hitting send sober, they'd look like that all the time (/shame).

@Dsell
YES. I believe I said that earlier. Bashing someone in the head with an ice cream scoop makes NO SENSE WHATSOEVER as a ninja kill in a game that's titled "read the freaking flavour". Uhm I guess that again implicates Watno some more.

[cayvie]

ughhh now my reads are going crazy, and i think eevee/jo are buddies

need to calm down

[Dsell]

Eevee, you're making some sense, but you can't seem to make up your mind. I don't want to tell you should vote for someone you have a town read on or really who you should vote for at all, I was just suggesting that waiting might help you make up your mind.

[Dsell]

I actually agree with both of you (eevee and Jo) that watno doesn't read very much like scum to me, but the logic that points to him as scum is pretty overwhelming. However, I have no problem with talking about others who could be scum as well, he's definitely not the only one.

[Eevee]

unvote

what do you mean, watno's flip won't tell us about anyone else's alignment?

Who in your opinion is directly implicated by Watno flipping town or scum?

let me rephrase.

you said, "Idk, it's pretty sad Watno's flip won't directly tell us anything about any other player."

why did you say this? is it normal for flips to do so? why is this one particularly sad?

it sounds like you're saying words just to say words; ie, you're making stuff up to blend in.

also, a scum watno exonerates jotheonah pretty hardcore in my eyes. it's not perfect, but i don't see a plausible way for them to be on the same scum team. it's only a town watno that would say nothing in particular about anyone.

Okay that's a good point, Watno flipping scum certainly makes Joth being mafia pretty much impossible. That's at least somewhat helpful.
@Frisk
Oh plenty of times. Someone legitimately trying to start a wagon on someone else pretty much makes them being from the same scum team impossible in my mind. The problem here is, Watno has been so lurky / lacking of initiative/he has made no case of his own, that his flip would be one of the most useless ones this late in the game this far, I think. ..But uhm I guess that's more of a result from his playstyle than anything else, so not a reason to not vote for him.

@Dsell
Me appearing indecisive has nothing to do with the amount I've had to drink (I hope). I'm just having second thoughts. Why aren't you? EVERYONE BUT ASHERSKY, LEKKIT AND WATNO HIMSELF ARE VOTING / EXPRESSING AN INTEREST IN VOTING FOR HIM. Now sure, his scumbuddies might see him as a lost cause and keep their vote on him / vote for him for that reason, but still.. unanimous consent like this is pretty worrisome don't you think?

PPE Yeah Dsell's latest is what I'm talking about.

[Eevee]

ughhh now my reads are going crazy, and i think eevee/jo are buddies

need to calm down

Why is this? because i've expressed an extreme town read on him since god knows how long?

[cayvie]

ughhh now my reads are going crazy, and i think eevee/jo are buddies

need to calm down

Why is this? because i've expressed an extreme town read on him since god knows how long?

nah, it's got nothing to do with that.

more with the quote i kept quoting

your response was good though. and, i mean, you do sound like typical eevee, which is town eevee.

[Eevee]

ughhh now my reads are going crazy, and i think eevee/jo are buddies

need to calm down

Why is this? because i've expressed an extreme town read on him since god knows how long?

nah, it's got nothing to do with that.

more with the quote i kept quoting

your response was good though. and, i mean, you do sound like typical eevee, which is town eevee.

That quote doesn't really say anything to me, so I'm not sure what you mean there. Probably that the thing I said in the quote read scummy to you on a gut level? Idk yeah, I stand by it 100%, although I didn't realize the thing about Joth you pointed out, probably because my town read on him was so strong already.

[shraeye]

Frisk is obvscum, likely SK.  I'd love to lynch him, because it feels weird to give scum a pass like this.  But we really really need the nightkill as town.

Dsell I recall having mild suspicions of.  But his reaction to the lie he thought he caught joth in really felt very towny.  It weirded me out that he seemed to have more knowledge about Galz-suicide than the rest of us, but still I think he's medium-town

Watno really seems scummy to me.  I had no idea his postcount was as low as it was, but I recall thinking that on day 2 he really didn't have much to say other than his tracking results, which were really weird.  Dsell sums up that case well

I still find myself suspecting is Watno. The more I think about the night 1 paint incident, the more it seems that he is the common denominator in Insomniac's death. Frisk may indeed be scum, but two targeted Insom with intent to kill. This means that either Jo is a ninja who happens to kill with his own "flavor," vanilla ice cream scoops or there is a ninja who can also target someone to steal their flavor. They both seem very unlikely and Jo is giving me a very slight town read at this point...I don't think he's a good lynch. So Watno is the common denominator and the simplest solution is that he's lying. He expected there to be just one kill on Insom so that he could frame someone who targeted Insom/Robz (originally Jorbles). Now he's just covering for the fact that he didn't really account for the possibility of two kills.

Looking through his posts it also feels strange how hard he was pushing Joth due to the flavor of some night kills, despite me and joth explaining that that would be a really dumb role for a ninja to have his flavor linked directly two him, and to have him in a QT with two townies who would absolutely know his flavor.

Eevee: Eevee has been super active, and has really been a town leader.  But I'm suspicious of the direction that town has been led in so far.  Another strong town read of mine has also posted a suspicious read of eevee because of changes in behavior, so this has some influence in my read as well.  This came from the situation where Eevee got worked up because he was hungry, according to himself.  I really would love to have the time to do an indepth analysis of all his posts, and look forward to hearing from whoever does the night-read on Eevee. (This was a really good idea, which was suggested by Eevee, ironically).  He's a slight scum read.

cayvie: cayvie has been really suspicious to me, especially due to her crazy reaction to suspicion from ashersky.  Basically there was very very light suspicion on cayvie, and yet the reaction felt really anxiety-filled.  Also going through day 3 posts, they all seem surprisingly quick, like not much thought or analysis is going into them.  Until you get to the defense cayvie puts up because of asher's accusations.  Also this question to watno

i want to know why watno, as watcher, targeted who he did.

i would think that a town watcher would target much townier-looking players than ftl and ashersky.

feels like a really easy way to interact with your scumbuddy.  ask them a question that feel's like it's picking apart actions and being critical.  But then cayvie did absolutely zero-followup on this question.

lekkit: I'm having a hard time getting a solid read on lekkit.  I think I agree with Dsell's summary here,

I am getting a HUGE "mafia hunting for the SK" vibe from Lekkit right now. And the way he treats Watno in that post looks like whatever is between distancing and bussing. "Yeah he's suspicious but not quite as suspicious as this other guy" type of deal.

I really don't know what to make of his "ability" to check roleclaims for accuracy.  It sounds like a good ploy to get people to out their roles.  Already ftl and watno ahve asked if Lekkit could use his ability to confirm them as town.  I am looking at my role PM, frisks, and watno's (those are the two that have been posted, right?) and I can't figure out at all what is suspicious about Frisk's in particular.  His vote of DSell looked really scummy as well (it was actually prefaced by "at the risk of sounding scummy", which feels like the mafia-equivalence of "no offense intended" right before you insult somebody).  I think this is slight-medium scumminess.

ftl: his apathy reads as possibly town, but it's frustrating.  He's unabashed sheeping of the watno vote when he got prodded was really scummy.  I think I recall him being one of the first people who said we should ignore some flavor stuff and do some classic scumhunting, which could be a really good idea, since we've made no progress trying to chase this flavor trail yet.  slight town-null read overall

asher: asher is a big townread for me; his posts have been really helpful.  I just recalled that Eevee was trying to lynch him back in day 1, that is another mark of suspicion on eevee.  He has felt really level headed in the last few days and like Dsell I think he's made a lot of effort to piece together the many puzzles we have.  This is the feeling I get when scanning back through some of his posts, so I don't have specific examples right now.

joth:  This sums up my thoughts.  I'm counting him as obvtown right now.

ashersky, I have been forward with every piece of pro-town information I have every step of the way, with the exception of my own role, even though that forwardnes has brought me nothing but grief and suspicion, and eHalc seems to be trolling me with every piece of seemingly useful information I receive.

You and others, on the other hand, are sitting on information and dropping broad hints while the day slips away. I'm sorry my wording was unclear to you. However I am not claiming anything other than what I said before - Jorbles does not appear to have used his power based on scoops.

If you have information that explains this inconsistency, I wish you would either say it or stop talking about it.

Here's a super towny post.  I think he has been very forward with his info, coming straight out yesterday when he suspected a frame-job (an idea I am really starting to latch onto), and trying to keep the record straight about scoops.  it seems that everything he does is pretty forward and honest, and somehow blows up in his face.  I'd be rightly frustrated if I were in joth's position as well.

[shraeye]

So order of willingness to lynch:

watno>cayvie>lekkit>eevee>ftl>Captain Frisk>shraeye>jotheonah>ashersky

What is watno at?  I would vote for him, but if this is the hammer, I want to give people warning.

[shraeye]

ughhh now my reads are going crazy, and i think eevee/jo are buddies

need to calm down

Why is this? because i've expressed an extreme town read on him since god knows how long?

nah, it's got nothing to do with that.

more with the quote i kept quoting

your response was good though. and, i mean, you do sound like typical eevee, which is town eevee.

That quote doesn't really say anything to me, so I'm not sure what you mean there. Probably that the thing I said in the quote read scummy to you on a gut level? Idk yeah, I stand by it 100%, although I didn't realize the thing about Joth you pointed out, probably because my town read on him was so strong already.

What was the thing about joth that cayvie pointed out?  I seem to have missed it as well.

[shraeye]

Watno is town means Watno is telling the truth about who he watched night 1. Only Frisk targeted Insom/Robz. However, there were 2 kills. Meaning that there is a ninja. Now, that ninja could either be you, because you are vanilla ice (cream man) or it could be someone else (also a ninja!) stealing your flavor.

This is the best argument for joth being ninja (cuz vanilla ice is so smooth) that I've seen.  But this still makes no sense to me overall.  How can a ninja kill also target somebody else on the same night (remember this was confirmed by Galz).  That basically would make joth a crazy powerful scum with 2 roles both ninja and something else.

[Eevee]

@shraeye
It was that joth pretty much can't be scum if Watno is scum. It goes both ways in my mind, Watno being town without Joth being scum is equally improbable in my mind. All the reasonable/likely explanations point towards one of them lying imo.

Shraeye reads to me like shraeye usually does: scummy. But.. he has always read to me like that on a gut level, and he has always (?) been town this far, so that's not exactly a strike against him. I do get the suspicion towards me, if you think I've been leading the town (I do have the most posts [yay!]), so that's reasonable), we have not done well at all so I can understand being upset with that (although I do disagree with the notion of scum taking the leading role in town's demise but whatever YMMV).

[Eevee]

One of the things I feel most sure of in this game is my town read on Joth.

[cayvie]

cayvie: cayvie has been really suspicious to me, especially due to her crazy reaction to suspicion from ashersky.  Basically there was very very light suspicion on cayvie, and yet the reaction felt really anxiety-filled.  Also going through day 3 posts, they all seem surprisingly quick, like not much thought or analysis is going into them.  Until you get to the defense cayvie puts up because of asher's accusations.  Also this question to watno

i want to know why watno, as watcher, targeted who he did.

i would think that a town watcher would target much townier-looking players than ftl and ashersky.

feels like a really easy way to interact with your scumbuddy.  ask them a question that feel's like it's picking apart actions and being critical.  But then cayvie did absolutely zero-followup on this question.

you know, except for the follow-up i did.

not the best, granted, considering i'd missed his correction, but still. get your facts straight.

[Eevee]

Wow that makes both Watno and ftl seem like so scummy to me.

[cayvie]

Wow that makes both Watno and ftl seem like so scummy to me.

what does

[shraeye]

cayvie: cayvie has been really suspicious to me, especially due to her crazy reaction to suspicion from ashersky.  Basically there was very very light suspicion on cayvie, and yet the reaction felt really anxiety-filled.  Also going through day 3 posts, they all seem surprisingly quick, like not much thought or analysis is going into them.  Until you get to the defense cayvie puts up because of asher's accusations.  Also this question to watno

i want to know why watno, as watcher, targeted who he did.

i would think that a town watcher would target much townier-looking players than ftl and ashersky.

feels like a really easy way to interact with your scumbuddy.  ask them a question that feel's like it's picking apart actions and being critical.  But then cayvie did absolutely zero-followup on this question.

you know, except for the follow-up i did.

not the best, granted, considering i'd missed his correction, but still. get your facts straight.

Oops, I missed this as I lumped it together with the post to ashersky right above it, my fault.  Yeah, I recall there being something crazy involving people names being switched.  But I still stand by my point that this is a good question to interact with your scumbuddy over.

[cayvie]

to be fair, this is +townpoints for shraeye; i feel like scum shraeye would be more careful about stuff like that

have i seen scum shraeye?

[Dsell]

It's L-2, right?

I kinda want to vote and hope the hammer falls before morning.

[cayvie]

here, if you want to hammer, go for it:

vote: watno

calmed down on eevee

[ashersky]

here, if you want to hammer, go for it:

vote: watno

calmed down on eevee

I get that I'm still all alone on the Cayvie Train, but man, you just keep the scummy coming.

[Lekkit]

As I've said earlier, my top scum reads are Watno, Dsell (less so if Watno flips town) and jo.

Also, if you have time, reread not only the next alive person, but the person after that too, since scum could easily disrupt town by killing someone who was going to reread someone they wouldn't want a reread of.

Vote: Watno

[ashersky]

As I've said earlier, my top scum reads are Watno, Dsell (less so if Watno flips town) and jo.

Also, if you have time, reread not only the next alive person, but the person after that too, since scum could easily disrupt town by killing someone who was going to reread someone they wouldn't want a reread of.

Vote: Watno

Pretty sure that was the hammer.

[Lekkit]

The wagon I manage to get is this:

ftl, Captain_Frisk, Eevee, cayvie, Lekkit. That's L-1. I could be wrong, though. Either way, I've said that a Watno lynch is one of the lynches I really support.

[cayvie]

did jotheonah unvote?

[ashersky]

did jotheonah unvote?

Joth is on ftl.

[ashersky]

Should I hammer?

[cayvie]

oh, ok

thought he voted watno, looks like he only expressed interest in doing so

Should I hammer?

do you think a watno lynch is a good idea?

[ashersky]

oh, ok

thought he voted watno, looks like he only expressed interest in doing so

Should I hammer?

do you think a watno lynch is a good idea?

I think it's okay.  He's been scummy, which I think he'd readily admit.  I don't know if he's scum though.  I mean, I get painted with that brush all the time and I am always town.

My strongest scum read has no support, except for a random Eevee vote.

So, well, I guess it's fine.

[cayvie]

deadline's in 5 days, i wouldn't recommend hammering someone you're only so-so on at this point. 24 hours from deadline, a different story.

have we really always been town together every game we've played? crazy. i feel like i fight with you, like, all the time. might be conflating you with archetype in my mind.

[ashersky]

deadline's in 5 days, i wouldn't recommend hammering someone you're only so-so on at this point. 24 hours from deadline, a different story.

have we really always been town together every game we've played? crazy. i feel like i fight with you, like, all the time. might be conflating you with archetype in my mind.

Definitely town in every game.  I was mason/lover with Arch in that BMM game where we had rhyming and question posting restrictions, plus the A names, maybe?

[Captain_Frisk]

@Frisk
Oh plenty of times. Someone legitimately trying to start a wagon on someone else pretty much makes them being from the same scum team impossible in my mind. The problem here is, Watno has been so lurky / lacking of initiative/he has made no case of his own, that his flip would be one of the most useless ones this late in the game this far, I think. ..But uhm I guess that's more of a result from his playstyle than anything else, so not a reason to not vote for him.

Specific example please.

[ashersky]

@Frisk
Oh plenty of times. Someone legitimately trying to start a wagon on someone else pretty much makes them being from the same scum team impossible in my mind. The problem here is, Watno has been so lurky / lacking of initiative/he has made no case of his own, that his flip would be one of the most useless ones this late in the game this far, I think. ..But uhm I guess that's more of a result from his playstyle than anything else, so not a reason to not vote for him.

Specific example please.

I'm warming to a Frisk lynch, based on these non-responses to cases.

[Dsell]

Will wait for Eevee's response to Frisk to hammer.

I forgot about Lekkit being so scummy. There can't not be scum in cayvie, Eevee, and Lekkit. Maybe lurker ftl too.

[Dsell]

Frisk lynch is tsk-tsk lynch. Whether he's town or SK, he can kill, and we really need him to kill mafia tonight.

[Eevee]

@Frisk
Oh plenty of times. Someone legitimately trying to start a wagon on someone else pretty much makes them being from the same scum team impossible in my mind. The problem here is, Watno has been so lurky / lacking of initiative/he has made no case of his own, that his flip would be one of the most useless ones this late in the game this far, I think. ..But uhm I guess that's more of a result from his playstyle than anything else, so not a reason to not vote for him.

Specific example please.

Wug? Me and Lekkit day 1 in VIII. I didn't want to hammer him, rather had it slide to nolynch and even risked someone hammering me. No way I could have been scum there unless he was too.

[Eevee]

Will wait for Eevee's response to Frisk to hammer.

I forgot about Lekkit being so scummy. There can't not be scum in cayvie, Eevee, and Lekkit. Maybe lurker ftl too.

I have a better feeling about Lekkit lately. Not about cayvie though.

@ashersky
What Dsell said + to be fair to Frisk, I think he is like that all the time and also has a legitimitate reason to scumhunt at this poi t even if he is a serial killer.

[Captain_Frisk]

@Frisk
Oh plenty of times. Someone legitimately trying to start a wagon on someone else pretty much makes them being from the same scum team impossible in my mind. The problem here is, Watno has been so lurky / lacking of initiative/he has made no case of his own, that his flip would be one of the most useless ones this late in the game this far, I think. ..But uhm I guess that's more of a result from his playstyle than anything else, so not a reason to not vote for him.

Specific example please.

Wug? Me and Lekkit day 1 in VIII. I didn't want to hammer him, rather had it slide to nolynch and even risked someone hammering me. No way I could have been scum there unless he was too.

I'm not sure I find this specific compelling.  No lynch was awesome in that game.  For me.  As scum.  I feel that now that we have day 1 bussing (fos RobZ), hyper active scum (Insomniac) etc, that very rarely does a flip definitively implicate someone - except for conflicting claims etc.

It looked like we were on a path for that with DSell + Joth in this game, but that stopped - and I still have no idea what happened there.  Can't wait to see spec thread on that bad boy.

[Dsell]

I forget whether Watno's still at L-1 or not. But I'm ready to hammer. Vote: Watno

[Voltgloss]

THREAD LOCKED

[Voltgloss]

Vote Count 3.6

cayvie (1): ashersky
ftl (1): jotheonah
jotheonah (1): Watno
Watno (6): ftl, Captain_Frisk, Eevee, cayvie, Lekkit, Dsell

Not voting (1): shraeye

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Flavor later, courtesy of eHalcyon.  But in the meantime, here's the flip!

Watno has been lynched.  He was a town-aligned CMYK War Machine.

Night 3 has begun. Night actions are due in 48 hours, i.e., by 11:00 a.m. EDT on Saturday, October 27.  (Unless extended further by eHalcyon.)

THREAD LOCKED.

[eHalcyon]

What do Sea Hags have to do with Poultry?

Fishy fishy fishy fishy fishy fishy fishy.  Fishy fishy fishy fishy fishy, fishy fishy fishy fishy fishy fishy.  Fishy fishy fishy!

Fishy fishy fishy fishy fishy fishy -- fishy fishy fishy fishy. 

Fishy fishy fishy fishy, fishy fishy town-aligned Fishy. Fishy fishy. Fishy fishy fishy. Fishy fishy fishy fishy.  Fishy fishy fishy!

Fishy fishy, fishy fishy fishy fishy.

Fishy:

fishy/fishy fishy fishy
fishy/fishy fishy
fishy/fishy fishy fishy fishy
fishy/fishy fishy fishy
fishy/fishy fishy

Fishy fishy fishy fishy fishy fishy (fishy fishy).


Deadline extended to 5pm MDT on Sunday, October 28.  But it would probably be better to get things in before the weekend.

[eHalcyon]

Cruel.  Cruel cruel cruel.

How did this all happen?  Jeff is missing an arm.  Annie has gone mad.  Troy can no longer speak and Shirley has succumbed once more to alcoholism.  Britta has that awful streak of blue in her hair, and Captain_Frisk and ashersky are covered in yellow paint.

Pierce was long gone, but there was more death just last night -- jotheonah had been killed.  He was town-aligned Vanilla Townie.  A bad-ass fingerless black leather glove was left beneath the mess of melted vanilla ice cream and waffle cone crumbs.

Is this the Darkest Timeline?  Abed enters the Dreamatorium.  Perhaps some simulations could prove enlightening.  He imagines the timeline's moderator, eHalcyon, commenting on the current state of affairs.

"Biggest problem for town right now is really that scum are ...........redacted.............."

Suddenly his body becomes rigid, his eyes glazed over.  What is happening?  eHalcyon suddenly starts rambling:

Dsell's mistake about Jo's lying
Was all my fault, caused by my dying.
He's right however, that how I died
Was by red fishy suicide.

Chicken chicken chicken, chicken
chicken chicken chicken chicken.
Chicken, chicken chicken chicken
chicken chicken, chicken chicken.

For what I know or think is true,
Listen close before all's through:
ftl may sing and dance
As the General from Penzance.

Kelpy kelpy, kelpy kelpy kelpy
kelpy kelpy kelpy kelpy.
Kelpy kelpy kelpy, kelpy kelpy,
kelpy, kelpy kelpy kelpy.

Dsell has tried to show he's town,
Though often he's looked like a clown.
He's not at fault, I stand to blame
I may have cost the town this game.

Fishy fishy fishy, fishy fishy fishy
fishy fishy, fishy fishy fishy.
Fishy fishy fishy fishy, fishy fishy
fishy fishy, fishy fishy fishy.

The path to walk, is straight ahead
Look very closely at all that's said.
Harry or Neo, they're both "The one"
Read the flavour, before you're done.

Sheep sheep sheep, sheep sheep sheep,
sheep sheep, sheep sheep sheep.
Sheep sheep sheep sheep, sheep sheep,
sheep, sheep sheep sheep, sheep.

For what it's worth, to you I'll say,
my biggest scummy/(townie) reads today:
Don't trust Joth, but do Dsell,
also trust one, ftl.

Chicken chicken chicken, chicken chicken
Kelpy kelpy, kelpy kelpy.
Fishy fishy, fishy fishy fishy fishy,
Sheep sheep sheep, sheep sheep.

Eevee is a little creep,
don't trust Cayvie, in your sleep.
Now, one last thing, before I go:
The ghost of Ozle says Hello!

Then eHalcyon snaps out of his reverie.  "Before you ask," he says, "that was a message from Galzria.  Nothing mod-confirmed!  I would have cut him off sooner but I didn't want to interrupt the poetry.  And if you're confused about any of it, you can ask him yourself."

Abed looks at him quizzically but before more could be explained, a decomposing arm bursts up from the floor.  The rest of the body soon follows -- Galzria has been resurrected.  However, he looks sickly and will not likely survive for very long without support.  Being dead really takes the spirit out of you.

Abed runs out of the Dreamatorium, leaving the other players to their strange business.





Day 4 Start

Vote Count 4.1

Not voting (8): ashersky, Captain_Frisk, cayvie, Dsell, Eevee, ftl, Lekkit, shraeye, Zombie Galzria

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Lynch deadline: Monday, November 12, 3:00pm MDT

Thread Unlocked!

[eHalcyon]

In case you guys didn't know, the first post of this thread has links to the starting posts of each day.  Cheers!

[Galzria]

Strange things are afoot at the Circle K.

Doctor! Are you the Doctor? Doctor! My brain hurts!

[Lekkit]

There is so much going on! Galz, is this part of your power as well?

[Captain_Frisk]

DayStrangle: Galzria

Zombies are clearly anti-town.

-- Joking aside --

As you can imagine, I strangled Joth.  After the watno flip, that left Joth as likely scum, as per the "at least one scum in non masonic neighborhood theory" + "vanilla ice cream" killer.

Now, I'm painted yellow, which points to Watno related power, but pretty sure we lynched watno, right - so I guess someone got his power?  Role madness indeed.

Looks like we also have some additional blocking / protection.

Galz - anything you can / want to tell us about your condition.  You're listed in italics in the voting, indicating some manner of atypical status.

Did we learn anything else?

[Eevee]

Glad to have Galz back! Does anyone have any explanations for the yellow paint? Weird.

[Dsell]

So frustrated that Frisk strangled Jo. He was one of my biggest townreads by the end of the day. It looks like the mafia kill was blocked, though, so that's great.


I'm floored that Watno wasn't mafia. This means that there is a flavor-stealing ninja who happened to kill a person who was watched night one. That is literally where the last three lynches have come from, so the mafia just got some dumb luck here. If the mafia only knew about the ice cream neighborhood because of Archetypes reveal, well all the more.

I guess I'm still most suspicious of cayvie, and also eevee and maybe lekkit and whoever else I was suspicious of at the end of yesterday. We are probably basically LYLO now and it's possible that if Galz didn't come back to life, we could be being end-gamed right now.

Did eHalc ever modconfirm that there was no alignment changing here, ie Galz is indeed confirmed town?

[Eevee]

Yeah, no alignment-flipping confimed in the OP.

Joth getting strangled is sort of frustrating to me too. I understand I was pretty alone with my town read on him, but it's sort of annoying to repeat something like 15 times, be right and not have people listen. We asked Frisk to do what he deems best though, so not sure I can blame him that much. :/

[Captain_Frisk]

So frustrated that Frisk strangled Jo. He was one of my biggest townreads by the end of the day. It looks like the mafia kill was blocked, though, so that's great.

You are frustrated DSell?  Some full posts by you - back until the point where you backed off the whole "Joth is lying" thing.  Bold for emphasis.  I agree that you didn't necessarily say "if watno is town, joth is scum" as others have, but as I reread, I didn't get an overwhelming townread on Joth from anyone

To be honest, I really thought about strangling you, but decided that your "joth is lying" stunt was too crazy.

Hmm. We may like to consider the fact that confirmed-town Jorbles suspected cayvie enough to target her for roleblocking. Of course, he also suspected me day 1 so his scumhunting sense was not perfect; however I think it's reasonable to think that every townie's reads would get better over time.

The other person he strongly suspected that I still find myself suspecting is Watno. The more I think about the night 1 paint incident, the more it seems that he is the common denominator in Insomniac's death. Frisk may indeed be scum, but two targeted Insom with intent to kill. This means that either Jo is a ninja who happens to kill with his own "flavor," vanilla ice cream scoops or there is a ninja who can also target someone to steal their flavor. They both seem very unlikely and Jo is giving me a very slight town read at this point...I don't think he's a good lynch. So Watno is the common denominator and the simplest solution is that he's lying. He expected there to be just one kill on Insom so that he could frame someone who targeted Insom/Robz (originally Jorbles). Now he's just covering for the fact that he didn't really account for the possibility of two kills.

Vote: Watno

This one did mention Joth as a town read, but was from the 20th, and what cleared Joth was that watno was the more likely answer.

Dsell: would you be willing to lynch me ATM?

Ehhhhhhhh I would be a bit hesitant. Watno is the scummiest for me (besides Frisk, who, as I pointed out, we need) and then after that would be cayvie and probably jo, you and ftl are on that list for some lurking and now this. I really think that Watno should be the lynch today, though.

Either 1) we have a flavor-stealing ninja or 2) Watno is scum. Which seems more likely?

Either 1) we have a flavor-stealing ninja or 2) Watno is scum. Which seems more likely?

Or 3) Joth is a ice-cream-killer-ninja. That one seems most likely to me (though I admit I have an information advantage there). I still don't get how what I did would have made sense if I was scum.

Yes, this is a fair possibility too. But it still doesn't seem terribly likely to me. At least, I believe you are more likely, though I admit to being pretty confused about my read on Jo as a whole since the whole me-him debacle.

3. if you don't believe Watno is scum, you still have to accept that jo is a ninja who kills with his own flavor or that there's a flavor-stealing ninja out there.

this is not true. please back up this statement.

Watno is town means Watno is telling the truth about who he watched night 1. Only Frisk targeted Insom/Robz. However, there were 2 kills. Meaning that there is a ninja. Now, that ninja could either be you, because you are vanilla ice (cream man) or it could be someone else (also a ninja!) stealing your flavor.

Ok I guess there's also the remote possibility that there's another ice-cream neighborhood that kills with flavor. But those would still have to be ninja kills. And who ever heard of a ninja killing by bashing someone in the head with an ice cream scoop?

[Dsell]

Every time I mentioned that Jo could be the killer it was mainly to be sure I included every possibility-not because I actually thought he was the killer.

I was indeed confused about my read on jo yesterday, but at the end of the day I had a town read on him because it makes no sense to have a ninja who kills with his own flavor.

[shraeye]

I am surprised that ashersky and Frisk have paint, could somebody have stolen joth's flavor and stolen watno's power and htis explains the craziness that's been happening?  That sounds exactly like the thief role of Robz, but he's not around.  Also, painting Frisk could make sense, except he said that he'd use a kill this night so obviously he'd be visiting someone.  The paint on asher makes no sense to me either. I'm super confused about things.

[Captain_Frisk]

If someone (town) did use manage to steal Watno's power, and "watched" both Asher and I, then if they see 2 people with yellow on them, there's a reasonable chance that its a doctor / scum pair.

If only one person got yellow on them targeted, then whoever did the targeting may have prevented a mafia kill by Asher.  Note: may is the operative word here, this is far from a slam dunk.

Either way, the painter should probably keep his or her mouth shut unless we have something solid.  8 people alive, likely 3 scum means mislynching is officially bad.

[ashersky]

If someone (town) did use manage to steal Watno's power, and "watched" both Asher and I, then if they see 2 people with yellow on them, there's a reasonable chance that its a doctor / scum pair.

If only one person got yellow on them targeted, then whoever did the targeting may have prevented a mafia kill by Asher.  Note: may is the operative word here, this is far from a slam dunk.

Either way, the painter should probably keep his or her mouth shut unless we have something solid.  8 people alive, likely 3 scum means mislynching is officially bad.

So, since Frisk and I were covered in paint, anyone who targeted us would have paint traces, right?  But Joth had no paint on him, so clearly the paint didn't transfer from Frisk to his target.

Why in the world would you think paint would block a mafia kill, Frisk?  Paint would have no affect on our targeting abilities, as made clear by your town kill.

I think we're past the point where we can trust Frisk to help town through his killings.  He clearly didn't do it last night.  I think it's probably time to take him out.

Vote: Frisk.

[Galzria]

Well, here's what I know:

95% certain:

Dsell is town
CF is not Mafia

75% certain:

ftl is town

This leaves scum amongst:

Lekkit, Eevee, Shraeye, Ashersky, Cayvie

My biggest scum reads this game are... Well, honestly? All 5! Ha!

Alright, let me start from the beginning:

I DID indeed commit suicide. I have/had no night actions this game, but at the end of N1, I was slapped in the face by a flying Red Fish. I picked it up and examined it, but was unable to fathom what it was for. It was while I was pondering this occurrence that I was fed Vanilla Ice Cream.

I tried my very best D2 to get information on the Red Fish, but nobody here was biting. So unable to determine it's use, I decided the safest play was to use it on myself. If, as I feared, I died, I would still be able to communicate through the moderator - so at worst you lost my vote, but not my voice.

But this is where things get weird. See, as the Spiritual Medium, my ability is to speak to ghosts, day or night (something about voices in my head, and never being able to tune out HBO). I was warned however that not all ghosts are benevolent, and I was encouraged to take on a different name while in the Ether. I was going to assume the name of the greatest nephew of a werewolf these forums have ever seen... But that particular spirit already haunted the Speccy thread. So instead I used Joth's name.

The night after I died, I thought about giving up my gig and coming clean, as it seemed I was the only -player- in there. Ahh, but trolling Ozle was too much fun (he was convinced Joth was scum for lying here in the game when he said he had no additional powers - something Ozle believed to be untrue).

But then something strange happened. A new ghost joined the thread... Only this time, he really was a ghost. Dsell came, but could not post. Having read three thread however, he came to the same conclusion Ozle did: Joth was lying about his powers, and therefor must be scum. Of course, Joth knew nothing of this, and he started really freaking out... Oh my goodness did I feel TERRIBLE. I knew if I didn't correct the situation, Joth would NEVER forgive me. So I opened up. I posted the truth and explained everything. Well. This left Dsell in a fine pickle. Here he had publicly called Joth out on what was ultimately just me trolling Ozle.

To Joth AND Dsell, I apologize.

Now, here's my read on Dsell:

If he was scum, he would've known that Joth was town. So to come out balls to the wall like he did calling Joth a liar straight up, visibly and publicly... It wouldn't have made much sense. Because IF Joth got lynched, knowing absolutely nothing about what Dsell was talking about, it would've looked terrible. More than that though, having read the truth, why would a scum Dsell back down? It's not like he could ever really expect others to get access to that QT and call him out...

No. I might be wrong, but 95 times out of 100 that's town Dsell seeing what he thinks is a scum lie, calling it out, and then realizing he's been trolled hard. However, Dsell, I would like to know how you got access to that thread...?

ftl: Way back on D1 ftl asked Robz a question: Are you a plant? At the time, this didn't stand out, but after it came out that Robz was Kelp, Cayvie(?) brought the question back to light. I unvoted Robz and asked for an explanation from ftl on the issue, to which he explained he had information on Robz that said he was "more like a Vegetable, than Animal or Mineral" (#1124). From this, I deduced that he was very likely Major General Stanley from Gilbert and Sullivan's Pirates of Penzance. The song "Modern Major General" in particular relates to having "information Vegetable, Animal and Mineral". This role then is probably semi-investigative, and I'm sorry, but if the Major General were made scum, I would be really, really mad at eHal

ftl: What have you learned in subsequent nights?

The reason I'm coming forward with all this now is that:
A) I've got limited time to do so.
B) We're likely near lylo, and confirming as much as possible will be necessary, even if it leads to claims.

As I'm still very doubtful that CF is Mafia, this brings the list of possible scum down to the 5 I listed above. As you can tell from my poem, Cayvie and Eevee stand out to me, however all 5 have merits of being scum.

As to my coming back to life: I was granted a 1-day death reprieve. This was not (according to eHal) an inherent part of my ability but something bestowed upon me. While I'm alive, I can talk/vote/whatever like normal - BUT - the number of living players has not increased by 1. Thus the # to lynch remains the same. So you're all hated while I'm around! Mwahahaha!

[ashersky]

Unvote based on Galz's info and need to process.

I was on Cayvie all of yesterday, but for reasons that don't work anymore (Joth was town, Galz is convinced Dsell is town).  doesn't mean I was wrong, but I don't really have an argument for it anymore.

Eevee said he'd die if he targeted a specific person--does that sound like a mafia role?

[Dsell]

I am half-tempted to say it's time for a massclaim, because I really think that would let us know who the scum are or at least give us a very, very good idea. But the question is whether we can lynch all the scum fast enough or if they'll be able to use the information against us before we get that chance.

[Dsell]

So no massclaim yet, please! But I'd love everyone's thoughts on the idea.

[ftl]

N2 I learned that Lekkit is Animal rather than Vegetable or Mineral.

N3 I learned nothing. If I were the target of a Mafia kill, that would have also failed. I don't know why I would have been a Mafia target, though, but it could explain the missing kill. I do know why the jailkeep/something happened to me, but I'm quite certain that discussing it further won't help us find scum. 

[cayvie]

ok sorry i'm here, been away from everything, reading now

[cayvie]

okay that galzria story does explain dsell's weird behavior pretty well

[cayvie]

So no massclaim yet, please! But I'd love everyone's thoughts on the idea.

god, i'm half for it, half against it.

i don't even know at this point. i'm tempted to do something that's probably really stupid.

[Lekkit]

Hah! I was pretty sure Galz had possessed Dsell or sent him messages from the grave. I would actually be for a massclaim. It would weaken my role some, but ee really need to hit mafia this time.

[shraeye]

I'm very wary of a massclaim.  We do need to hit mafia really badly, but this could even make it harder for us.  we don't have a closed setup so i'm unsure of what roles can exist.  but if we all massclaim and there are a bunch of powers on the table, what will we do, persecute the ones that look the most scummy?  Mafia on the other hand, will read the list of powers and be able to immediately make a priority list of kills.  this isn't the first night we ended up with one missing NK it seems, so there are likely protection roles out there.  painting huge targets on the back of a protection PR seems to make getting endgamed even more likely.

[Galzria]

I'm very wary of a massclaim.  We do need to hit mafia really badly, but this could even make it harder for us.  we don't have a closed setup so i'm unsure of what roles can exist.  but if we all massclaim and there are a bunch of powers on the table, what will we do, persecute the ones that look the most scummy?  Mafia on the other hand, will read the list of powers and be able to immediately make a priority list of kills.  this isn't the first night we ended up with one missing NK it seems, so there are likely protection roles out there.  painting huge targets on the back of a protection PR seems to make getting endgamed even more likely.

Why do you think it's not the first night of missing kills? As far as I can fathom, we had 2 N1, 1 of which was attributable to CF, who then did not shoot N2, leaving just the single kill that night (my death was by suicide). N3 (last), we again only had 1 kill, but CF did kill, thus there should've been 2. But that was the first case of a "missing" kill. Unless you know something you're not saying.

[Captain_Frisk]

+1 to Galz.  Shraeye - any comment?

[shraeye]

I'm very wary of a massclaim.  We do need to hit mafia really badly, but this could even make it harder for us.  we don't have a closed setup so i'm unsure of what roles can exist.  but if we all massclaim and there are a bunch of powers on the table, what will we do, persecute the ones that look the most scummy?  Mafia on the other hand, will read the list of powers and be able to immediately make a priority list of kills.  this isn't the first night we ended up with one missing NK it seems, so there are likely protection roles out there.  painting huge targets on the back of a protection PR seems to make getting endgamed even more likely.

Why do you think it's not the first night of missing kills? As far as I can fathom, we had 2 N1, 1 of which was attributable to CF, who then did not shoot N2, leaving just the single kill that night (my death was by suicide). N3 (last), we again only had 1 kill, but CF did kill, thus there should've been 2. But that was the first case of a "missing" kill. Unless you know something you're not saying.

Sorry, i was going back over what's happened thus far and trying to sort out the madness.  Joth and watno both being town bowled me straight over.  I was sure that watno was lying scum and that's why crazy crazy things happened with night 1 stuff.  As soon as watno flipped town, i regretted defending joth so hard because my gut-reaction was taht he really was a ninja-scum and i'd just been yelling the whole time how it was impossible.  But then we find out that joth is also gone, and as i've said before, I'm super confused about things.  Then, before I can get a handle on what the hell is happening, people start pushing for massclaims, and I think that we must have been hoodwinked to high hell, and i'm worried scum is taking advantage of the confusion and might actually get us to massclaim (i'm not certain that the massclaim talkers are scum, I'm really not sure what I'm sure of anymore.  I need to reread massively)

Here's my current conspiracy theory.  What if there was only 1 kill night 1?  What if the ice-cream flavor wasn't a kill but was just a false clue planted on the death scene, or something like that?  I was convinced before that we had 2 kills collide and watno was lying, but now I'm considering the possibility that night 1 was just a 1 kill night.

[ftl]

vote: shraeye

that makes no sense, we got an ice cream scoop kill N2, and Frisk's black leather glove happened on N1 and N3, consistent with him killing those nights

[Galzria]

I wish to hear from both Eevee and Ashersky before we continue discussion. I know where Lekkit, Shraeye, and Cayvie stand on my post above and how we should move forward. I haven't yet heard from the remaining two.

[Captain_Frisk]

I kindof agree with ftl that shraeye's theory makes no sense, and this is on top of his already bizarre missing kill theory, and I still have a mini chub to lynch him from day 1.

Town being led by zombie Galz is very strange.

[Captain_Frisk]

Oh and Galz.

+50 to you for being responsible for that DSell madness.  Even if it did waste a day, it was still funny.

[cayvie]

Town being led by zombie Galz is very strange.

hey, confirmed townies talking = always nice

[Captain_Frisk]

Town being led by zombie Galz is very strange.

hey, confirmed townies talking = always nice

But he's a zombie!  i guess ehalc did tell us there were no cults and alignment switching?

[shraeye]

Arg, this is going to go badly for us unless I come clean before we run down another false path.  I made a misleading statement about night kills trying to push that there are protection roles.  I don't know if protection roles are out there, but I wanted to make it look like they did to really disincentivize massclaiming.  Galz pointed out my statement and Frisk felt like he was pushing the idea, and I realized it looked scummy and panicked, making another explanation that ftl correctly points out doesn't make the most sense (this still is a conspiracy theory I'm toying with, but it's half-baked at best).  Let me set the record straight.  Massclaims are very terrrrible for town.  Massclaiming should be avoided like the plague.

[Lekkit]

Town being led by zombie Galz is very strange.

But town being led by a confirmed townie isn't that strange. At least not to me.

[Galzria]

Tick-tock.

Still waiting on Ashersky and Eevee...

[cayvie]

Arg, this is going to go badly for us unless I come clean before we run down another false path.  I made a misleading statement about night kills trying to push that there are protection roles.  I don't know if protection roles are out there, but I wanted to make it look like they did to really disincentivize massclaiming.  Galz pointed out my statement and Frisk felt like he was pushing the idea, and I realized it looked scummy and panicked, making another explanation that ftl correctly points out doesn't make the most sense (this still is a conspiracy theory I'm toying with, but it's half-baked at best).  Let me set the record straight.  Massclaims are very terrrrible for town.  Massclaiming should be avoided like the plague.

this sounds honest

i believe you

[ashersky]

Tick-tock.

Still waiting on Ashersky and Eevee...

What would you like to know?

I don't think a massclaim is a good idea.  I do think Shraeye is being honest.  I think Lekkit and Cayvie are the best targets.  I'm okay with an Eevee lynch.  I don't have much reasoning that anyone would find useful though, mostly just guts now.

[Eevee]

Tick-tock.

Still waiting on Ashersky and Eevee...

Terribly sorry. IRL stuff (relationship issues that make me not want to do anything, incredibly including even forum mafia).

I'll read everything now and catch up.

[Eevee]

As I said, while not happy about it, I can understand Frisk strangling joth. I said "joth is my strongest town reads" like 10 times, but we did advise Frisk to use his best judgement. One interesting discussion point is if Frisk is still a net positive for us even if he is a serial killer? 8 of us, got to be at least 3 scum (!?) (and I guess if there is 4 we are pretty much done anyways), so I think we still want to keep him around. Three mafia +risk actually makes sense too. Thoughts?

I completely trust Galzria (and advice everyone else to do as well, because no alignment changing). His explanation for the Joth-Dsell - debacle makes sense, and I'm fine with trusting Dsell as well as a result of it, Galzria's reasoning resonates well with me.

ftl: Way back on D1 ftl asked Robz a question: Are you a plant? At the time, this didn't stand out, but after it came out that Robz was Kelp, Cayvie(?) brought the question back to light. I unvoted Robz and asked for an explanation from ftl on the issue, to which he explained he had information on Robz that said he was "more like a Vegetable, than Animal or Mineral" (#1124). From this, I deduced that he was very likely Major General Stanley from Gilbert and Sullivan's Pirates of Penzance. The song "Modern Major General" in particular relates to having "information Vegetable, Animal and Mineral". This role then is probably semi-investigative, and I'm sorry, but if the Major General were made scum, I would be really, really mad at eHal


I don't understand absolutely anything about this. Galz, you have a flavor-based reason to think ftl is town?

I think it's very good you came forward with the information. Your poem though, you too advised us to read the freaking flavor.. why? Have you got something for us, either something concrete or at least something to look for in the future? I haven't gathered anything at all that could be even remotely informative or helpful.

Isn't it 8+1 alive and 5 to lynch, just like normal?

Eevee said he'd die if he targeted a specific person--does that sound like a mafia role?
I thought you WERE the specific person!?

I'm kind of meh on the mass-claim. I guess I oppose it even, although could be convinced it's a good idea. Just.. the fact that Frisk might very well be a serial killer, then there would be two scum kills per night? Wouldn't we be kind of very vulnerable?

Shraeye's explanation makes sense to me, scum doesn't try weird gambits like that often in my opinion.

I realize why Galzria suspects me, process of elimination and all that, I agree with the thought process. However, think of how I've played in this game. Would I have dared to be so wrong so many times as scum? I guess it's a meh wifom defense, but I don't have any better. :/ Lekkit sort of felt towny to me yesterday for appearing helpful, I'm still weirdly noready on shraeye (he hasn't been as.. attack-y as he usually is?), Frisk situation is what it is, Galzria is town, Dsell is likely town, ftl I personally don't have any reason to believe is town - in fact I would have suspected him unless Galz said he thinks he is town, I trust Galzria so I too think he is town I guess, cayvie is my biggest scum read, ashersky kind of too just by process of elimination although pending his answer to my question above. If I had to pick a lynch target now, it'd be cayvie. She has been different on a gut level (+also objectively posted a lot less), she has kind of stayed in the shadows (like shraeye!) where I'd expect scum to be + process of elimination.

[Galzria]

Alright, I'll pull my thoughts together late tonight. Cayvie, which 1 of Ashersky, Eevee, Lekkit or Shraeye do you think is town?

Eevee, which 1 of Ashersky, Lekkit, Cayvie and Shraeye do you think is towniest?

Lekkit, which one of Ashersky, Eevee, Cayvie and Shraeye do you think is town?

Ashersky, which 1 of Eevee, Cayvie, Shraeye and Lekkit do you think is town?

Aaand, Shraeye, which 1 of Eevee, Cayvie, Lekkit and Ashersky do you think is town?

---

I'm going on 3 Mafia (or whatever you want to call them). I strongly believe Dsell is town. I'm very much leaning that way for ftl. CF is NOT Mafia. Even if I'm wrong about ftl, two of the remaining 5 ARE scum. And IF I'm right, 3 of 5 are scum.

What this means to each of you, is that extracting yourselves, 3 of 4 are likely scum. Eevee and Ashersky I've got a general feeling for now. Cayvie, Shraeye and Lekkit I need to reread their responses. If sometime could be so kind as to provide a post-count? It would be appreciated.

Back later with more...

[shraeye]

Alright, I'll pull my thoughts together late tonight. Cayvie, which 1 of Ashersky, Eevee, Lekkit or Shraeye do you think is town?

Eevee, which 1 of Ashersky, Lekkit, Cayvie and Shraeye do you think is towniest?

Lekkit, which one of Ashersky, Eevee, Cayvie and Shraeye do you think is town?

Ashersky, which 1 of Eevee, Cayvie, Shraeye and Lekkit do you think is town?

Aaand, Shraeye, which 1 of Eevee, Cayvie, Lekkit and Ashersky do you think is town?

---

I'm going on 3 Mafia (or whatever you want to call them). I strongly believe Dsell is town. I'm very much leaning that way for ftl. CF is NOT Mafia. Even if I'm wrong about ftl, two of the remaining 5 ARE scum. And IF I'm right, 3 of 5 are scum.

What this means to each of you, is that extracting yourselves, 3 of 4 are likely scum. Eevee and Ashersky I've got a general feeling for now. Cayvie, Shraeye and Lekkit I need to reread their responses. If sometime could be so kind as to provide a post-count? It would be appreciated.

Back later with more...

I also have a strong townfeel on DSell.  My strongest one is still on ashersky.  I think I'm coming around to your theory on ftl as well.  Yesterday I was suspicious of cayvie, lekkit, and eevee, they were right at the top of my list after watno.  So it feels to me like you're talking sense, man.

[shraeye]

Alright, I'll pull my thoughts together late tonight. Cayvie, which 1 of Ashersky, Eevee, Lekkit or Shraeye do you think is town?

Eevee, which 1 of Ashersky, Lekkit, Cayvie and Shraeye do you think is towniest?

Lekkit, which one of Ashersky, Eevee, Cayvie and Shraeye do you think is town?

Ashersky, which 1 of Eevee, Cayvie, Shraeye and Lekkit do you think is town?

Aaand, Shraeye, which 1 of Eevee, Cayvie, Lekkit and Ashersky do you think is town?

---

I'm going on 3 Mafia (or whatever you want to call them). I strongly believe Dsell is town. I'm very much leaning that way for ftl. CF is NOT Mafia. Even if I'm wrong about ftl, two of the remaining 5 ARE scum. And IF I'm right, 3 of 5 are scum.

What this means to each of you, is that extracting yourselves, 3 of 4 are likely scum. Eevee and Ashersky I've got a general feeling for now. Cayvie, Shraeye and Lekkit I need to reread their responses. If sometime could be so kind as to provide a post-count? It would be appreciated.

Back later with more...

So you say Frisk is not Mafia, and I think I agree there as well.  but is he scum?  I have a pretty strong scumread on him, and i think some others agree, but right now we're trying anything to hit mafia it seems.  Here's something I have no idea about; at what point is the NK from the serial killer no longer useful?  Is there point where we should lynch him, or is it always best to wait and see if he survives the night?

[Galzria]

Alright, I'll pull my thoughts together late tonight. Cayvie, which 1 of Ashersky, Eevee, Lekkit or Shraeye do you think is town?

Eevee, which 1 of Ashersky, Lekkit, Cayvie and Shraeye do you think is towniest?

Lekkit, which one of Ashersky, Eevee, Cayvie and Shraeye do you think is town?

Ashersky, which 1 of Eevee, Cayvie, Shraeye and Lekkit do you think is town?

Aaand, Shraeye, which 1 of Eevee, Cayvie, Lekkit and Ashersky do you think is town?

---

I'm going on 3 Mafia (or whatever you want to call them). I strongly believe Dsell is town. I'm very much leaning that way for ftl. CF is NOT Mafia. Even if I'm wrong about ftl, two of the remaining 5 ARE scum. And IF I'm right, 3 of 5 are scum.

What this means to each of you, is that extracting yourselves, 3 of 4 are likely scum. Eevee and Ashersky I've got a general feeling for now. Cayvie, Shraeye and Lekkit I need to reread their responses. If sometime could be so kind as to provide a post-count? It would be appreciated.

Back later with more...

So you say Frisk is not Mafia, and I think I agree there as well.  but is he scum?  I have a pretty strong scumread on him, and i think some others agree, but right now we're trying anything to hit mafia it seems.  Here's something I have no idea about; at what point is the NK from the serial killer no longer useful?  Is there point where we should lynch him, or is it always best to wait and see if he survives the night?

It's highly likely CF is a bullet-proof SK, who ate the shot of the Mafia last night who targeted him knowing town had given him back free reign. He's not with lynching, and in fact is still vital since my vote disappears tonight.

[Eevee]

Eevee, which 1 of Ashersky, Lekkit, Cayvie and Shraeye do you think is towniest?

Why did you ask towniest from me and town from others?

Depends a bit on what ashersky answers to my question (whether he is the guy referenced to in my role pm like he said or not), but.. hmm. Lekkit or ashersky. I'll say ashersky.

[Galzria]

Not worth*

[Eevee]

Alright, I'll pull my thoughts together late tonight. Cayvie, which 1 of Ashersky, Eevee, Lekkit or Shraeye do you think is town?

Eevee, which 1 of Ashersky, Lekkit, Cayvie and Shraeye do you think is towniest?

Lekkit, which one of Ashersky, Eevee, Cayvie and Shraeye do you think is town?

Ashersky, which 1 of Eevee, Cayvie, Shraeye and Lekkit do you think is town?

Aaand, Shraeye, which 1 of Eevee, Cayvie, Lekkit and Ashersky do you think is town?

---

I'm going on 3 Mafia (or whatever you want to call them). I strongly believe Dsell is town. I'm very much leaning that way for ftl. CF is NOT Mafia. Even if I'm wrong about ftl, two of the remaining 5 ARE scum. And IF I'm right, 3 of 5 are scum.

What this means to each of you, is that extracting yourselves, 3 of 4 are likely scum. Eevee and Ashersky I've got a general feeling for now. Cayvie, Shraeye and Lekkit I need to reread their responses. If sometime could be so kind as to provide a post-count? It would be appreciated.

Back later with more...

So you say Frisk is not Mafia, and I think I agree there as well.  but is he scum?  I have a pretty strong scumread on him, and i think some others agree, but right now we're trying anything to hit mafia it seems.  Here's something I have no idea about; at what point is the NK from the serial killer no longer useful?  Is there point where we should lynch him, or is it always best to wait and see if he survives the night?

It's highly likely CF is a bullet-proof SK, who ate the shot of the Mafia last night who targeted him knowing town had given him back free reign. He's not with lynching, and in fact is still vital since my vote disappears tonight.

I like this theory, and agree.

[Galzria]

Eevee, which 1 of Ashersky, Lekkit, Cayvie and Shraeye do you think is towniest?

Why did you ask towniest from me and town from others?

Depends a bit on what ashersky answers to my question (whether he is the guy referenced to in my role pm like he said or not), but.. hmm. Lekkit or ashersky. I'll say ashersky.

Because you had just posted town reads on too many people, so I wanted to know which was the towniest. No other reason.

[Eevee]

Eevee, which 1 of Ashersky, Lekkit, Cayvie and Shraeye do you think is towniest?

Why did you ask towniest from me and town from others?

Depends a bit on what ashersky answers to my question (whether he is the guy referenced to in my role pm like he said or not), but.. hmm. Lekkit or ashersky. I'll say ashersky.

Because you had just posted town reads on too many people, so I wanted to know which was the towniest. No other reason.

I dont have true town reads on anyone but you and Dsell. Wording might have been ambiguous, I was just describing my feelings on them. Wouldn't surprise me one bit if anyone but Dsell, you and Frisk flipped mafia.

[cayvie]

Alright, I'll pull my thoughts together late tonight. Cayvie, which 1 of Ashersky, Eevee, Lekkit or Shraeye do you think is town?

only 1?

i think both ashersky and shraeye are town

[Galzria]

Starting up now...

[ashersky]

Eevee said he'd die if he targeted a specific person--does that sound like a mafia role?
I thought you WERE the specific person!?

Yes, I am the specific person, and I'm town.  That's why I wondered if a scum role could have a caveat that if you happen to NK me, you also die.  By knowing who I am, you can target everyone else.  That was my question.

Ashersky, which 1 of Eevee, Cayvie, Shraeye and Lekkit do you think is town?

Most likely to be?  Shraeye.

[Eevee]

Yeah, inclined to believe ash is town then. Not bulletproof but the most likely interpretation I can make of the flavor I was provided with.

[ashersky]

Yeah, inclined to believe ash is town then. Not bulletproof but the most likely interpretation I can make of the flavor I was provided with.

Vote: Eevee

You had no need to ask me to confirm this in thread.  At all.  This response makes no sense to me, given what we both know.  Why did you?

[cayvie]

Yeah, inclined to believe ash is town then. Not bulletproof but the most likely interpretation I can make of the flavor I was provided with.

Vote: Eevee

You had no need to ask me to confirm this in thread.  At all.  This response makes no sense to me, given what we both know.  Why did you?

wait, huh?

are you saying eevee already knew you were the mailman or whatever?

[Eevee]

Yeah, inclined to believe ash is town then. Not bulletproof but the most likely interpretation I can make of the flavor I was provided with.

Vote: Eevee

You had no need to ask me to confirm this in thread.  At all.  This response makes no sense to me, given what we both know.  Why did you?

uhm what? you earlier said Eevee said he'd die if he targeted a specific person--does that sound like a mafia role?, that didn't sound like you were referring to yourself / knew i was being truthful, so how could I have known without asking you to clarify?

[ashersky]

Yeah, inclined to believe ash is town then. Not bulletproof but the most likely interpretation I can make of the flavor I was provided with.

Vote: Eevee

You had no need to ask me to confirm this in thread.  At all.  This response makes no sense to me, given what we both know.  Why did you?

uhm what? you earlier said Eevee said he'd die if he targeted a specific person--does that sound like a mafia role?, that didn't sound like you were referring to yourself / knew i was being truthful, so how could I have known without asking you to clarify?

Unless the mod is messing with us, you already knew the answer to your question before you asked it.  I wasn't referring to my question, which was separate. 

My question had to do with whether a mafia role could have a restriction such as yours (i.e., if you target X at night, you will also die).

You already knew who it is you can't target, and that it's me, before you asked and I answered.  Why you asked that is what I'm looking for.

[Eevee]

I do not understand. I wasn't told who the player is. Then, at the end of day 2 you say "don't target me Eevee!". Now, you say something that to me looks like you are not the guy. I'm confused and ask for a clarification. What of this doesn't make sense to you?

[Galzria]

Eevee, would you classify your role as a Plant or Animal?

Ashersky, are you a Mineral or Plant?

Cayvie, Mineral or Animal?

Shraeye, Plant, Animal or Mineral?

[cayvie]

animal

[Eevee]

Neither. Closer to animal I guess?

[ashersky]

Eevee, would you classify your role as a Plant or Animal?

Ashersky, are you a Mineral or Plant?

Cayvie, Mineral or Animal?

Shraeye, Plant, Animal or Mineral?

Neither.

[ashersky]

I do not understand. I wasn't told who the player is. Then, at the end of day 2 you say "don't target me Eevee!". Now, you say something that to me looks like you are not the guy. I'm confused and ask for a clarification. What of this doesn't make sense to you?

I'm saying that, no matter what was said in thread on any day, as of today, you already know for sure who the player is.  Because of that, there was no reason for your line of questioning today.

[cayvie]

I do not understand. I wasn't told who the player is. Then, at the end of day 2 you say "don't target me Eevee!". Now, you say something that to me looks like you are not the guy. I'm confused and ask for a clarification. What of this doesn't make sense to you?

I'm saying that, no matter what was said in thread on any day, as of today, you already know for sure who the player is.  Because of that, there was no reason for your line of questioning today.

ashersky, how certain are you that eevee is lying here?

[Galzria]

Eevee, would you classify your role as a Plant or Animal?

Ashersky, are you a Mineral or Plant?

Cayvie, Mineral or Animal?

Shraeye, Plant, Animal or Mineral?

Neither.

Are you an Animal?

[Eevee]

I do not understand. I wasn't told who the player is. Then, at the end of day 2 you say "don't target me Eevee!". Now, you say something that to me looks like you are not the guy. I'm confused and ask for a clarification. What of this doesn't make sense to you?

I'm saying that, no matter what was said in thread on any day, as of today, you already know for sure who the player is.  Because of that, there was no reason for your line of questioning today.

HOW? I'm very confused.

[Eevee]

I do not understand. I wasn't told who the player is. Then, at the end of day 2 you say "don't target me Eevee!". Now, you say something that to me looks like you are not the guy. I'm confused and ask for a clarification. What of this doesn't make sense to you?

I'm saying that, no matter what was said in thread on any day, as of today, you already know for sure who the player is.  Because of that, there was no reason for your line of questioning today.

ashersky, how certain are you that eevee is lying here?

What are you getting at here?

[cayvie]

ashersky, how certain are you that eevee is lying here?

What are you getting at here?

there's not much subtext...

i want to know how certain ashersky is that you're lying

[Galzria]

Gonna do this as best I can. I'm a bit drunk right now, so you'll excuse me for typing mistakes or wandering thoughts...

First off, I'm still hopeful that CF is the Vig he claims to be, but I honestly don't believe it to be true. Last night there was a missing kill, and there's only so many ways to explain it. So let me start by suggesting a limited call to claim here:

If you're responsible for causing a death not to happen last night, now's three time to speak up, and here's why:

Players alive:

Dsell
Ftl
CF
Ash
Shraeye
Eevee
Cayvie
Lekkit

( players. Assume 3 Mafia. Assume CF is X, where X can be town or SK. The split looks like this: 4-X-3
If we mislynch, and Mafia kill Frisk, we're at a 3-3 split and we lose. At best, if we mislynch, Frisk shoots a scum for us before dying himself and we're at 3-2.

The point is, we cannot afford to mislynch here, because we're very, very easily in mylo. But because of our situation, our roles are generally meaningless to scum. Everybody here is a PR, so its not like any one of us is hiding something special. Furthermore, scum will want to prioritize NK'ing those that can kill them - Frisk, basically - so what claims we DO make will be protected by a CF wall (sorry buddy, but that's the way it is. If you're town, you'll understand).

Onto the issue of the missing kill: My running theory if nobody speaks up is that CF is a bullet-proof SK. N2, we reigned him in, so scum were unthreatened, thus left him alone. N3, we set him loose. Scum certainly couldn't have that, so they shot him... But being protected, he didn't die.

I don't -at all- fault him for his choice to shoot Joth. The freaking odds that Watno, Jorbles, Robz AND Joth were all telling the truth is ridiculous given events. I wish it were otherwise, but c'est la vie.

Now, I asked each person about their opinion of mass-claiming, and Lekkit's response stood out to me the most in that he was least wary of doing so (#1811). Why? Because scum have had now pregame + 3 nights to talk and strategize. It would make a pretty poor scum team that didn't pre-plan fakeclaims in a rolemadness game, especially as the game gets later and they know scrutiny can't be held off forever. Lekkit was all but jumping at the chance to claim. Very suspicious, especially since he didn't flush out any reasons to do so.

In post #1810, Cayvie waffled on claiming. This one was next in line to me in that it really read like she was trying to gauge town reaction to massclaim before deciding. Not calling her scum for it, but I did take note. Again, I suspect Mafia already have all their fake claims in hand, ready to go.

Shraeye was very hesitant to claim, and despite ether inconsistencies of post #1812, his subsequent responses DID have a generally townie vibe to me.

Ashersky's #1826 was brief, but also showed mistrust in massclaiming. Not much to go on here, but worth noting. He also listed his scum reads, which kill circle back to.

Eevee was last then, posting in #1828, where he says that he isn't decided on claiming. He's generally opposed, but could bee convinced it was a good idea.

What I get on this is:

Really uncomfortable claiming:

Shraeye, Ashersky

Willing to consider:

Cayvie, Eevee

Would be open to:

Lekkit

Based on my observation above that by this point scum is likely to have all their claims lined up and waiting, minor FoS at the bottom 3 on this issue.

Next up, reads:

I've covered Dsell already and why I think he is town 95/100 times, and I'm pretty sure most people here have agreed. So let me start with ftl. To answer your question Eevee, ftl is town to me both based on flavor, and based on role.

Role: He claimed something D2 that only I picked up on apparently (and this is good!) - And that is that ftl is a cop... Of sorts. I'll get to what type later on. Suffice it to say that this particular softclaim brought about a very specific and particular flavour reference to something else. When I questioned him on it, he semi-confirmed my read, and we both dropped it. But to me, if this particular flavour were scum, this game would be a Bastard game, so I concluded that he's likely town. It's no guarantee, but it's enough for me to work with.

All y'all's reads:

Given a 3 Mafia setup, I asked for each of your single town read for the following reason:

CF - Not Mafia
Dsell - Not Mafia
ftl - Likely not Mafia
Eevee
Shraeye
Lekkit
Cayvie
Ashersky

This is the list of living players. From your own perspectives, each of you claims town. That leaves 4 players in which 3 scum are likely to be. Put another way, there can only be one town amongst those 4.

Ashersky:
Scummy: Lekkit, Cayvie
Moderate: Eevee
Town: Shraeye

Shraeye:
Scummy: Lekkit, Cayvie, Eevee
Town: Ashersky

Eevee:
Scummy: Cayvie, Shraeye (PoE here)
Moderate: Lekkit
Town: Ashersky

Cayvie:
Scummy: Eevee, Lekkit (PoE here)
Town: Ashersky! Shraeye! ***

Lekkit:
*** No results

First off, big FoS Cayvie's way for finding two town, when PoE says that if Cayvie is town, there can only be one other in that group, not two.

For the sake of this exercise, I'm going to include moderate reads in with scummy, only pulling out the townie claims. To compile:

Cayvie 3/3 scum votes
Lekkit 4/4 scum votes
Eevee 3/3 scum votes
Ashersky 0/3 scum votes
Shraeye 1/3 scum votes

Here's the wine to this data: scum get to choose 1 person to be town, when they know that 2 of the 4 are scum, and 2 are town. Do they claim town reads on town, or on a scummate?

My personal belief is that they would claim town reads on town, and here's why: Scum are in a good position right now, and a little bit of bussing certainly wouldn't hurt - especially if things look to be moving towards one of their teammates. To try and maximize the opportunity to bus, they can't exactly claim town reads on their partners. Further, I put the question in terms of "towniness" for a reason. If you ask about somebodies scum read, they're more hesitant to give it because they don't want to start an unnecessary wagon. This is particularly true of scum v scum. But put in terms of townies, and they open right up.

All this then is just to say I think the above results are rather compelling. So here I'll FoS the top three... Which just so happens to coincide with my previous FoS list!

Cayvie, Lekkit, Eevee

But wait, there's more! Here I must draw attention back to ftl, our local investigator. See, I spent some time considering the uses of an investigator that gives results of Vegetable, Animal or Mineral. What purpose did he serve? What could he learn of value?

These are his results:

N1 - Robz, Vegetable
N2 - Lekkit, Animal
N3 - Nothing

ftl, correct me if I'm wrong, but did you block yourself via an item by any chance? An item that, in effect jailed you?

Anyway, Robz we know was town.

Lekkit, on the other hand, I have reason to believe is scum. Lekkit is animal. So amidst my post here I asked each of you directed questions based on my reads. Cayvie claimed Animal as well. Eevee claimed none, but closest to Animal. Ash claimed neither Mineral or Vegetable, although I admit I don't exactly fall in any of those three categories either, but I would like to hear more from him. Having posted this however, the point will be moot - but that's ok.

Here's my belief then on the use of ftl's cop role: Animals are scum. Ta-Da! No, but seriously, ftl, having you full claim at this point would be rather nice, because this is how I see things best working out:

We lynch Lekkit or Cayvie, and instruct CF to kill the other. You then investigate Eevee or Ashersky, your choice. Since I began writing this they've been having a back-and-forth, which leads me to believe for sure one is scum (I lean Eevee, but don't feel completely comfortable yet). Scum are left with a choice: Kill CF who, if left alive can kill them, or kill you. If we have a hidden doctor somewhere, he can secretly protect you tonight, keeping you alive.

This is, I think, our best course of action. There aren't many people I can consult in this town that I trust completely, but I would largely like to hear from Dsell, ftl and Shraeye. The rest of you I'm sure will have more than your share to argue with me about.

For now, I'll Vote: Cayvie for being tops in my list for a plethora of reasons, and for having two town reads where she should only be able to have one.

[cayvie]

wanna see the hardest role to win with ever?

Flavour name: Red Herring
Role name: Inventor
Alignment: Serial Killer

Abilities:

Whenever a crime is committed, the authorities always seem to come to you.  It has never been your fault, yet you are always the first suspect.  The most recent case was the last straw.  Why in the world would you steal a temperament strip?  You don’t even know the first thing about pianos!  No, you’ve suffered enough from all those fools.  This time you’ll be the one doing the dastardly deeds, and if you have your way you will be the last fish that anyone suspects.

You are an investigation-immune Serial Killer.  And you’re backed up by a huge school of your fiendish fishy friends.

Each night, you may target one player to receive a one-shot Fish.  They receive the Fish in the morning.  They will be told that they can use the Fish in addition to their regular night action, but they will not be told what the fish does.  If a player does not (attempt to) use their Fish on the night that they have it (i.e. the night after you target them), they die.

You will give out Red Fishes on odd nights and Blue Fishes on even nights.

Red Fish: 1-shot night kill (they may self-target).

Blue Fish: 1-shot Cop, sort of.  Targets two players (they may self-target).  If the players are...

You+Townie: fish tells user it is unlikely that either of you are scum.
You+Scum or 2 Townies: fish user dies.
2 Scum or Townie+Scum (not you): fish tells user that there is a chance that it is feasibly possible that at least one of the two players is perhaps scum maybe.

It’s mostly a delayed night kill either way.

Death flavour will indeed be fish-related.

You win when everyone else is dead, or nothing can prevent that from happening.

[Galzria]

Sooo many typo's. Blargh. Damn phone.

[cayvie]

i'm like a serial killer...

except it takes an extra night to do the kill...

and i don't get to choose who i kill...

and there's 2 chances for my kill to get interfered with...

and half the time it has a chance not to kill anyone...

[Dsell]

Ok who have you targeted, cayvie? And then we'll see about people confirming this.

What are your thoughts on Frisk?

[Eevee]

Galzria, I think you are mischaracterizing my stance on the massclaim. Here is the quote:

I'm kind of meh on the mass-claim. I guess I oppose it even, although could be convinced it's a good idea. Just.. the fact that Frisk might very well be a serial killer, then there would be two scum kills per night? Wouldn't we be kind of very vulnerable?

I'm willing to consider most anything if new info comes to light. As it is, I oppose the mass claim. Right?


@The WIFOM issue
Personally wouldn't even try, but your interpretation makes sense, even if it implicates me. I don't really have anything to argue with in your post. I think it's noteworthy regarding my back and forth with ashersky that (regardless of his alignment) I don't think he is lying.. I just think he is misthinking/misunderstanding. I mean he makes no sense to me tbh.


PPE
HOLY MOLY cayvie's claim. Need to ponder the ramifications.

[Eevee]

Well, I guess Frisk is a vig then, and shraeye ashersky and Lekkit are the mafia. Galzria said scum is likely to have a fake claim prepared which makes sense, but I doubt they'd have one for claiming a serial killer? So we can be pretty sure cayvie is what she claims she is? Which means we want her to live obviously, because her motivation is to kill mafia at this point. Right?

[Eevee]

Cayvie should give the blue fish to Dsell then, probably? Or roll a dice and give it to Dsell with 1-4 and to ftl with 5-6 rather?

Oh and told you guys, this town needs Galzria to get anywhere! Excellent foreshadowing, although I didn't realize that wish could come true.

[Dsell]

Man, this looks good for Frisk.

As if we needed one more piece of evidence that the flavor is misleading, now we have vigilantes with bad ass-gloves (XKCD reference, try not to think about it too hard).

Why should the blue fish go to me, exactly? I don't necessarily disagree but still.

[Eevee]

After the lynch, Frisk's (unblockable) kill and mafia's kill, there are 5 players left tomorrow.

So 1-3 mafia alive (and if 3, town has lost already).

If both Frisk and lynch hits mafia, there is one mafia one serial killer three townies left tomorrow. Cayvie has to be lynched (?), then mafia kills someone so day 6 there is one mafia and two townies and town has a very good chance to win.

If only one of lynch and Frisk hit mafia, then there'd be 5 players, 2 townies, 2 mafia and a serial killer left. Then we'd lynch mafia, hope cayvie kills another mafia and win?

Hummm. I'm confused.

@Dsell
Isn't the blue fish a good thing to have? And you are the most likely of us to be town.

[Galzria]

Interesting developments are interesting. I'm dead tired (no pun intended), so I'll sleep on my thoughts regarding Cayvie's claim. Certainly no need to rush off to lynch however, deadline is the 12th, so unvote for now.

[Dsell]

@Dsell
Isn't the blue fish a good thing to have? And you are the most likely of us to be town.

Ok you have said something like this twice now. I see where you're coming from, but if you're town, then YOU'RE the most likely "of us" to be town. I understand that you are treating me as obvtown because I am, but no one is ever (er...usually?) more confirmed town than yourself. If you're town.

And I'm really starting to think you're not.

I'll dig up the other quote where you say essentially the same thing.

I probably agree about the blue fish though, I guess.

[Galzria]

WAIT.

Cayvie, fish target N2! Who? Type of fish?

[Dsell]

I dont have true town reads on anyone but you and Dsell. Wording might have been ambiguous, I was just describing my feelings on them. Wouldn't surprise me one bit if anyone but Dsell, you and Frisk flipped mafia.

This is the other one that jumped out at me. Thought it was odd that you didn't include yourself in the list of people who wouldn't flip mafia.

[Galzria]

Scratch the type question. It was blue. Who did you give it to?

Who has a Red Fish NOW?

[Dsell]

WAIT.

Cayvie, fish target N2! Who? Type of fish?

Well it had to be a blue fish, since it was an even night.

Like I said, I think she should announce all her targets and then we should wait for people to confirm them.

I have no idea why she targeted you if she's the SK. I don't remember the general consensus on you at the time but I don't think I ever found you overwhelmingly scummy.

PPE: yeah exactly

[Eevee]

@Dsell
Isn't the blue fish a good thing to have? And you are the most likely of us to be town.

Ok you have said something like this twice now. I see where you're coming from, but if you're town, then YOU'RE the most likely "of us" to be town. I understand that you are treating me as obvtown because I am, but no one is ever (er...usually?) more confirmed town than yourself. If you're town.

And I'm really starting to think you're not.

I'll dig up the other quote where you say essentially the same thing.

I probably agree about the blue fish though, I guess.

What point would there be in me asking for the blue fish? I just save others the time of posting "you are only obvtown to yourself". I mean, looking at the situation objectively, I'd almost be mad if you agreed to give me the fish. I realize in your eyes I'm one of the guys who could be mafia. Like, I'm fine letting Galzria decide pretty much what we do here / tomorrow. We KNOW he is town, and he is smart. Even though I think I could be even more insightful given how I know everything he does (now) + my own townyness, the thing is rationally I realize you can't 100% trust what I say because you others don't know. Obviously we have 12 days until the deadline, so we have plenty of time to make this a screaming contest between me, Lekkit, shraeye and ashersky so you have time to determine which of us is lying, but I believe they are all savvy enough players to appear towny in a situation like this.

[Eevee]

Yeah, cayvie needs to fullclaim everything.

[Galzria]

Cayvie claimed to be fed Strawberry N2, which would've roleblocked her. Joth said no scoops were used that night, and that Cayvie must be lying. Joth was town.

Is this correct? (I was dead and only ľ following).

[Dsell]

@Eevee, it's less about the fish thing and more about the way you said it and the fact you decided to say it that way twice. If you'd said either of these things isolated it probably wouldn't have prompted me to comment. But the fact that you said a similar thing twice in a couple hours raises some red flags. Like I said, I know what you're saying about looking at it objectively, but still:

"Wouldn't surprise me one bit if anyone but Dsell, you and Frisk flipped mafia."

"And you are the most likely of us to be town."

It just strikes me wrong.

[Dsell]

Cayvie claimed to be fed Strawberry N2, which would've roleblocked her. Joth said no scoops were used that night, and that Cayvie must be lying. Joth was town.

Is this correct? (I was dead and only ľ following).

Yes, I remember this now. Except that I'm sure cayvie was indeed roleblocked because her wording matched mine before I confirmed it. So I believe her.

Some other shenanigans must have been behind the scoop count remaining unchanged. I've decided to stop searching these matters too deeply in this game. *ahem*paintfiasco*ahem*

[Galzria]

Cayvie claimed to be fed Strawberry N2, which would've roleblocked her. Joth said no scoops were used that night, and that Cayvie must be lying. Joth was town.

Is this correct? (I was dead and only ľ following).

Yes, I remember this now. Except that I'm sure cayvie was indeed roleblocked because her wording matched mine before I confirmed it. So I believe her.

Some other shenanigans must have been behind the scoop count remaining unchanged. I've decided to stop searching these matters too deeply in this game. *ahem*paintfiasco*ahem*

If that's true though, then there was no Blue Fish.

[Galzria]

Red Fish, Blue Fish.
Red Pill, Blue Pill.
Matrix. Lol.

[Dsell]

Cayvie claimed to be fed Strawberry N2, which would've roleblocked her. Joth said no scoops were used that night, and that Cayvie must be lying. Joth was town.

Is this correct? (I was dead and only ľ following).

Yes, I remember this now. Except that I'm sure cayvie was indeed roleblocked because her wording matched mine before I confirmed it. So I believe her.

Some other shenanigans must have been behind the scoop count remaining unchanged. I've decided to stop searching these matters too deeply in this game. *ahem*paintfiasco*ahem*

If that's true though, then there was no Blue Fish.

Yep. I had just forgotten that she was roleblocked. So nobody's had a blue fish, but somebody should have a red fish currently. Again, I'd rather hear from cayvie about it first.

[Dsell]

Maybe our next flavor will be Dr. Seuss? Is eHal taking requests?

[Eevee]

@Eevee, it's less about the fish thing and more about the way you said it and the fact you decided to say it that way twice. If you'd said either of these things isolated it probably wouldn't have prompted me to comment. But the fact that you said a similar thing twice in a couple hours raises some red flags. Like I said, I know what you're saying about looking at it objectively, but still:

"Wouldn't surprise me one bit if anyone but Dsell, you and Frisk flipped mafia."

"And you are the most likely of us to be town."

It just strikes me wrong.

Fair enough. I've always used wordings like this though, just prefer to be objective about these things and not waste time. If you think it's like super-damning, I can try to read through some of the older games to quote references. It's just the way I think, no reason to waste anyone's time saying something that's obviously implied out loud.

Yeah, even with Galzria's new info, the missing tracking result (and today's paint too, although stealing flavor could be linked to stealing roles so it could be the same reason/guy who made the kills joth-themed?) is still unexplained.

Is there a spoon?

[Galzria]

Cayvie claimed to be fed Strawberry N2, which would've roleblocked her. Joth said no scoops were used that night, and that Cayvie must be lying. Joth was town.

Is this correct? (I was dead and only ľ following).

Yes, I remember this now. Except that I'm sure cayvie was indeed roleblocked because her wording matched mine before I confirmed it. So I believe her.

Some other shenanigans must have been behind the scoop count remaining unchanged. I've decided to stop searching these matters too deeply in this game. *ahem*paintfiasco*ahem*

If that's true though, then there was no Blue Fish.

Yep. I had just forgotten that she was roleblocked. So nobody's had a blue fish, but somebody should have a red fish currently. Again, I'd rather hear from cayvie about it first.

I agree. I'm wary about the answer though.

[Eevee]

What would be the point in lying about the fish though? cayvie can easily verify the claim, right?

[Dsell]

Let's hope that if mafia got the fish they ate it and if town got it they rejected it. That's how it works, right?

[Galzria]

Let's hope that if mafia got the fish they ate it and if town got it they rejected it. That's how it works, right?

It's an item they received at dawn today, and get to use tonight...

[Dsell]

Ohhhhhhhkay.

So, what happens if someone rejects it? Nothing? Do they get to pass it off to someone else, making a kill?

[Galzria]

Ohhhhhhhkay.

So, what happens if someone rejects it? Nothing? Do they get to pass it off to someone else, making a kill?

Whomever received it this morning must use it tonight, on whomever they choose. Red Fish = Death. If they don't use it, they die (according to Cayvie's posted PM). So it's kill or be killed.

[Dsell]

Well, it's one more night-kill that we can direct, then. In the hands of mafia it's extremely dangerous but if town isn't end-gamed tomorrow we will be able to see whether they followed through, right? That's assuming no major busdriving or other redirection.

[Galzria]

Well, it's one more night-kill that we can direct, then. In the hands of mafia it's extremely dangerous but if town isn't end-gamed tomorrow we will be able to see whether they followed through, right? That's assuming no major busdriving or other redirection.

If it's in the hands of scum, I think town is done now regardless. Even if we take Cayvie's claim as 100% accurate, AND CF is a Vig, then if we have 3 scum, 1 SK, 4 town. If we lynch correctly today AND CF his scum, that puts us at 1-1-4. But with 2 NK's, scum drop us to 1-1-2. We're essentially lost there.

So our only hope is that town had it, not scum.

[Galzria]

Blargh. So many typo's. I'm going to sleep. We're not getting more info until tomorrow, and between my book and Cayvie's post, people will already have enough to read and talk about.

[ashersky]

That was a lot to come home to.

So, I think to answer some questions:

On what am I, I said neither.  I am also not an animal.  I am a robot.

On Eevee, he's up to something, and maybe he has a reason.  But, barring mod-error or bastardry, Eevee knew 100% when this day started who the person he shouldn't target is and that it is me.  To say more would be full claim territory, which I do not prefer.  I also have the answer to the extra ice cream scoop.

I am convinced, after adding in Zombie analysis, that Eevee is mafia, and should be lynched today.

For emphasis: Vote: Eevee.

[Eevee]

This kind of sucks. It's my word against ashersky's I guess, if he says he can't give us his reasons how can I prove he is wrong? I just can't even understand what reason I would have for lying about it. Should us (me, ashersky, Lekkit and shraeye) just claim then? Fwiw I'm sort of a machine / robot too.

[Captain_Frisk]

What on earth is going on here?  I missed all the fun.

Jury duty today, so either alot of posting or none.

[Eevee]

WAIT ASHERSKY, HOW CAN YOU EVEN BE THE GUY I WAS REFERRED TO IF YOU ARE A ROBOT!?!? Wow wow wow guys I think I caught ash in a lie and can prove it!

[ashersky]

WAIT ASHERSKY, HOW CAN YOU EVEN BE THE GUY I WAS REFERRED TO IF YOU ARE A ROBOT!?!? Wow wow wow guys I think I caught ash in a lie and can prove it!

Face it, your wife left you for a robot.

[Eevee]

WAIT ASHERSKY, HOW CAN YOU EVEN BE THE GUY I WAS REFERRED TO IF YOU ARE A ROBOT!?!? Wow wow wow guys I think I caught ash in a lie and can prove it!

Face it, your wife left you for a robot.

Opening up old wounds..

No seriously, no? I would think I would have been informed of that? Idk, it's a ridiculous lie for you, but I just have no idea of what you're talking about, so I'm kind of PoE'd into thinking you have to be lying.

Guys, would my wife leave me for a robot?

[Captain_Frisk]

I've seen some irl footage that suggests this is plausible?

[ashersky]

Cayvie claimed to be fed Strawberry N2, which would've roleblocked her. Joth said no scoops were used that night, and that Cayvie must be lying. Joth was town.

Is this correct? (I was dead and only ľ following).

To re-state this, I believe your recap is correct.

I know how/why Jorbles's action happened and the scoop number didn't change.

I suspected Cayvie for awhile, but that claim was believable.

[ashersky]

WAIT ASHERSKY, HOW CAN YOU EVEN BE THE GUY I WAS REFERRED TO IF YOU ARE A ROBOT!?!? Wow wow wow guys I think I caught ash in a lie and can prove it!

Face it, your wife left you for a robot.

Opening up old wounds..

No seriously, no? I would think I would have been informed of that? Idk, it's a ridiculous lie for you, but I just have no idea of what you're talking about, so I'm kind of PoE'd into thinking you have to be lying.

Guys, would my wife leave me for a robot?

I'd say try to prove the lie (hint: you can't; not a lie).  We can then see why you think what you think, at least.

Again, I return to the fact that, unless our esteemed mod is messing with us, you are blatantly lying (or being purposefully dense). 

[ashersky]

Or, I guess, if there were more roleblocks/redirects/bus driving in this game we don't know about...

[Eevee]

I have no idea what you are referring to. And the fact you claimed robot is what looks weird to me, because the guy mentioned in my pm didnt appear to be a robot yet you said you were him.

Guys again, does it make sense for a scum character to die when he targets one specific player? Idk I'm wary of saying more, but think about it..

[Lekkit]

The reason I'm for a mass-claim is that I can pretty easily see if eHal wrote the major part of the PM. I know this isn't something to blindly follow, but it would be a start. In the spirit of that; cayvie's PM seems to be written by eHal, or zhe has picked up the same thing I did.

Galz, you should have access to two QT's now, right?

[cayvie]

Yeah, cayvie needs to fullclaim everything.

nah, don't feel like it

i'm scum, jerkwads

[Captain_Frisk]

Yeah, cayvie needs to fullclaim everything.

nah, don't feel like it

i'm scum, jerkwads

I just laughed out loud... in the library... and everyone is looking at me.

[Galzria]

Yeah, cayvie needs to fullclaim everything.

nah, don't feel like it

i'm scum, jerkwads

Hey, no problem.

Vote: Cayvie

We can afford to lose the SK here. If the fish is in the hands of scum we've lost already anyway. - if it's in the hands of town they can use it on Lekkit/Eevee  tonight, and Frisk can kill the other. That should leave 1 scum and (even after the town NK), 3 town. Mylo is fine.

[Captain_Frisk]

Before we go crazy lynching cayvie (who may be false claiming under the thought that we can't kill her) - we should probably confirm that we do indeed have the fish? 

I can say for sure that I do not have any fish, one, two, red or blue.

[Lekkit]

I don't have any fishies either. I do work with some other animals, though.

[Captain_Frisk]

Galz - were you aware of what the red fish did when you used it?

[Galzria]

Before we go crazy lynching cayvie (who may be false claiming under the thought that we can't kill her) - we should probably confirm that we do indeed have the fish? 

I can say for sure that I do not have any fish, one, two, red or blue.

I'm not suggesting we rush off to lynch. I'm simply pointing out that the SK is not an invaluable role to us, and we can quite comfortably lynch her and still win (if indeed winning is even possible now).

By the way, I'm severely disappointed in you for not counter-claiming SK. It would've been just too delicious.

Speaking of multiple SK's - that's my current conspiracy theory: there is no scum team, but rather multiple SK's.

N1 there were two SK kills and Cayvie handed out a fish.
N2 there could've been 3 SK kills, but with you reigned in, there were only two again.
N3 you killed, Cayvie had been roleblocked from her N2 fish, and whomever the third kill comes from targeted ftl, which failed.

Under this wild theory, Cayvie + CF + ...? Is scummy SK. Sadly, that ? Could be anybody...

However: I already pointed out to eHal that this would be a Bastard game if that theory were correct, so I'm not playing for it. Still disappointed in Frisk for not counter-claiming Cayvie.

[Galzria]

Galz - were you aware of what the red fish did when you used it?

I've made it abundantly clear both before AND after I used it that I did not - which Cayvie's PM notes as well.

[cayvie]

oh, btw, i made several minor edits in my role and flavor--Lekkit earlier claimed to be able to tell Frisk's role PM was a lie.

[Galzria]

oh, btw, i made several minor edits in my role and flavor--Lekkit earlier claimed to be able to tell Frisk's role PM was a lie.

True or not doesn't matter. I'm already 80% sure he's scum by PoE and his answers along with everybody elses.

[cayvie]

oh, btw, i made several minor edits in my role and flavor--Lekkit earlier claimed to be able to tell Frisk's role PM was a lie.

True or not doesn't matter. I'm already 80% sure he's scum by PoE and his answers along with everybody elses.

yeah me too

[Lekkit]

And I still stand by my claim that the flavor Frisk qouted was not written by eHal.

[Eevee]

I know nothing of no fish either.

[Lekkit]

Hate to break it to you, guys, but I'm not scum. In fact, I even brought Galz back to life in the hopes of saving the town. Galz should be able to verify this by knowing that what's keeping him alive is a 1-shot Alive and that I know that the Dead Player QT is currently locked because of his zombie state. I do not know if eHal has told Galz that he has used the 1-shot or not, but it's the honest truth.

[Galzria]

And I still stand by my claim that the flavor Frisk qouted was not written by eHal.

The only reason you think that is because the three main item lines weren't in bold, nor was "Abilities". Which if hejust copy+pasted from the PM itself instead of quoting is how it would read. See:

Flavour name: Spiritual Medium
Role name: Modposter/Neighbour
Alignment: Town

Abilities:

As you are well aware, there is more to this world than what you can see and touch. Since you were a young child you’ve been tuned into The Other Side (except for a few hours each week when you are tuned into HBO, which you don’t even have to pay for since you can watch it all in your head!). You can hear spirits whispering all around you. Whether they are helpful is a different matter. Usually they’re just creepy in a “we see everything you do” kind of way.

For an example.

Now, I do think he chopped his PM, but I don't know that he alerted it.

[Galzria]

Hate to break it to you, guys, but I'm not scum. In fact, I even brought Galz back to life in the hopes of saving the town. Galz should be able to verify this by knowing that what's keeping him alive is a 1-shot Alive and that I know that the Dead Player QT is currently locked because of his zombie state. I do not know if eHal has told Galz that he has used the 1-shot or not, but it's the honest truth.

Only right on one count, and that doesn't make you town. Yes, you brought me back - I'll verify that. What you claim about the dead player QT makes no sense for the reasons you listed however - as I've never had access to it.

[eHalcyon]

Vote Count 4.2

cayvie (1): Zombie Galzria
Eevee (1): ashersky
shraeye (1): ftl

Not voting (6): Captain_Frisk, cayvie, Dsell, Eevee, Lekkit, shraeye

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Lynch deadline: Monday, November 12, 3:00pm MDT

[Lekkit]

The only reason you think that is because the three main item lines weren't in bold, nor was "Abilities". Which if hejust copy+pasted from the PM itself instead of quoting is how it would read. See:

Flavour name: Spiritual Medium
Role name: Modposter/Neighbour
Alignment: Town

Abilities:

As you are well aware, there is more to this world than what you can see and touch. Since you were a young child you’ve been tuned into The Other Side (except for a few hours each week when you are tuned into HBO, which you don’t even have to pay for since you can watch it all in your head!). You can hear spirits whispering all around you. Whether they are helpful is a different matter. Usually they’re just creepy in a “we see everything you do” kind of way.

For an example.

No it's not the only reason. However, you posting this here brought one thing to light. That I could be wrong about the whole written by eHal-stuff. It does strike me as REALLY weird though, as your PM contradicts eHal's way of writing. Something I've found in one post made by eHal.

[Lekkit]

Also, if he just copy pasted the italics wouldn't be there, but that's besides the point.

[Lekkit]

Galz, do you think bringing you back so that you could talk to the entire town would be a smart move for a mafia member?

[shraeye]

I'm in over my head today at work, so I'll sort out all the crazy information that happened last night sometime later today.  I think for now I agree with Galz's analysis that we don't need cayvie around.  I have really disliked Lekkit's proposed ability from the start.  It sounded like he's making town feel it's safe to claim so that he can 'verify' their towniness.  Add this to the scumminess I've been feeling from him, and his "totally ok" with massclaim position, and I'm pretty suspicious.  Now he's said that conftown Galzria's post contradicts his theory, and it feels like he's backing off on his flavor-reading ability so that he can claim mistakes are honest if he misidentifies scum if we massclaim.  So if I had to do things right now, I'd vote cayvie or lekkit.  No need to jump the gun now though, i'll try to sort things out better later tonight.

[Dsell]

Speaking of multiple SK's - that's my current conspiracy theory: there is no scum team, but rather multiple SK's.

This was my conspiracy theory first! You stole it before I could get to a computer.

[Lekkit]

Allright, I guess I'll just post it here, then.

What I noticed was that eHal included an extra space after a ".", "!" or "?". When I discovered this I thought it was just in this game. But I checked other posts he made, and they all included two spaces between sentences. I guess this has to do with some settings with his computer. I was a bit thrown off by this, especially after I saw that shreaye does this too. If you don't believe me, I breadcrumbed this in a post right after I found it. I'll go back and find it for you.

Sorry, eHal and shraeye for messing with not only this game, but all the games you play by outing this way of typing.

[Lekkit]

Yep, CF wrote his PM himself.  It's a pretty nice flavour you managed there, but eHal didn't write it for you.  I don't really want to tell everyone why I know this, because it wouldn't benefit town since it would be easier for other scum to write their own PMs.

[Captain_Frisk]

That's the proper way to write! 

[ftl]

Here's my belief then on the use of ftl's cop role: Animals are scum. Ta-Da!

Unlikely. I'm human, therefore animal, and I'm town.

No, but seriously, ftl, having you full claim at this point would be rather nice

Fine I'll claim

Flavour name: Major-General Stanley
Role name: Flavour Cop
Alignment: Town

Abilities:

You are the very model of a modern Major-General.  You’ve information vegetable, animal and mineral.  Or, you will have it soon!  With your extensive knowledge and formidable acumen, it’s only a matter of time before you have it all figured out.

Each night, you may target one other player.  You will intensely study that player and, in so doing, learn whether they are Vegetable, Animal or Mineral.  Some may be particularly difficult to classify, but with your exceptional educational background you will certainly be able to determine the closest category.  Depending on what you find, you will also learn a Military Lesson (one-shot ability) that you may use on subsequent nights INSTEAD of your regular flavour-cop power (Lessons may be saved for future use).

Vegetable: You learn about Military Sorties and may Commute that night (you cannot be targeted by anyone).
Animal: You learn Military Tactics, emboldening you to become a Vigilante (night kill a target).
Mineral: You learn some Military History, enabling you as a Role Cop (learn a target’s role name).

N1 Robz, N2 Lekkit, N3 commute, still have a 1-shot vig left

[shraeye]

Nice! The extra vig is going to be really helpful, with this and a fish from cayvie, I'm optimistic about our chances.  Galz, I hope you can help us sort out a good plan to use this all.  But can we all stop claiming?  Massclaim is not a good idea here, ive said this before, and I'll keep saying it.

[Lekkit]

That's the proper way to write!

No, the proper way to write would be one space after a punctuation.

[Dsell]

Ok wow it's awesome that ftl has a kill left!

My gut says that's enough claiming, but a small part of me thinks we might be able to catch scum in a lie if we make them (slash everybody) claim.

But we may have enough info now to form a plan of attack to beat mafia.

[Galzria]

Nice! The extra vig is going to be really helpful, with this and a fish from cayvie, I'm optimistic about our chances.  Galz, I hope you can help us sort out a good plan to use this all.  But can we all stop claiming?  Massclaim is not a good idea here, ive said this before, and I'll keep saying it.

The reason this isn't completely true (normally I agree!) Is that:

A) We're ALL PR's. Nobody is special and whoever scum kill will be a blow.
B) We may be at Mylo, and maximizing our information may be vital to success.
C) I haven't called for massclaims, I've called for limited, directed claims. I've already got an idea of what I'm looking for, so it's more a matter of making sure things line up.

In all, claiming here isn't as harmful as it usually is, and I'm trying to get information in a way that's as protown as possible.

If Cayvie is SK, AND there's a 3 man scum team, then by my reckoning there's 1 town amongst Lekkit, Eevee, Ashersky, and Shraeye. It's just a matter of working things out.

[Lekkit]

That would mean that if we lynched me, I flip town, we have 3 town, 3 mafia and 1 SK. If both CF and ftl have a vig shot each they could nail two of those. That would leave us with either 1 town, 1 mafia and 1 SK or 2 town, 1 mafia if the fish is in mafia's hands or 2 town, 1 mafia, 1 SK or 3 town, 1 mafia assuming there are no fishes in play or finally 2 town, 1 SK or 3 town, 1 SK with the fish in town's hands.

This assumes Galz is right about his reads. Please correct me if I'm wrong. If I'm not, I'm all for lynching myself.

[Lekkit]

Assuming that CF has any shots left.

[Dsell]

That would mean that if we lynched me, I flip town, we have 3 town, 3 mafia and 1 SK. If both CF and ftl have a vig shot each they could nail two of those. That would leave us with either 1 town, 1 mafia and 1 SK or 2 town, 1 mafia if the fish is in mafia's hands or 2 town, 1 mafia, 1 SK or 3 town, 1 mafia assuming there are no fishes in play or finally 2 town, 1 SK or 3 town, 1 SK with the fish in town's hands.

This assumes Galz is right about his reads. Please correct me if I'm wrong. If I'm not, I'm all for lynching myself.

Then who would you lynch right now to ensure we hit scum? Top scumread.

[Lekkit]

As I said. I will flip town, and that will leave Eevee, asher and shraeye as scum if Galz is right.

[Dsell]

As I said. I will flip town, and that will leave Eevee, asher and shraeye as scum if Galz is right.

One. I want your number one scumread.

[Dsell]

Galzria and company, do you think it's worth it to ask for fullclaims from all 4 of those people? 3 of the 4 of them are very very very likely scum anyway, so they'll only be learning 1 new claim. And that might let us figure out which of the claims are fake, allowing us to better direct the lynch and aim the nightkills.

I know I'm waffling on the idea of fullclaims but now I'm again starting to think it's a good idea.

[Lekkit]

Eevee. I've been pretty on and off with my read on him, but right now, I'm pretty sure he's scum.

[Galzria]

Galzria and company, do you think it's worth it to ask for fullclaims from all 4 of those people? 3 of the 4 of them are very very very likely scum anyway, so they'll only be learning 1 new claim. And that might let us figure out which of the claims are fake, allowing us to better direct the lynch and aim the nightkills.

I know I'm waffling on the idea of fullclaims but now I'm again starting to think it's a good idea.

I don't think it's a good idea. I'm sure scum have their claims lined up, and they'll all sound townie.

[Dsell]

Galzria and company, do you think it's worth it to ask for fullclaims from all 4 of those people? 3 of the 4 of them are very very very likely scum anyway, so they'll only be learning 1 new claim. And that might let us figure out which of the claims are fake, allowing us to better direct the lynch and aim the nightkills.

I know I'm waffling on the idea of fullclaims but now I'm again starting to think it's a good idea.

I don't think it's a good idea. I'm sure scum have their claims lined up, and they'll all sound townie.

But some of them (one of them) might have evidence in the game that backs it up, while those that are completely fabricated won't.

My own role is somewhat informational...there's no guarantee that I'll be able to spot a liar but I could have some information that a falseclaim could contradict.

[Captain_Frisk]

That's the proper way to write!

No, the proper way to write would be one space after a punctuation.

I'm probably just showing my age, but I was definitely taught to write with 2 after sentence ending punctuation.  It bugged me to no end when I learned that browsers always treated consecutive whitespace as a single.

[Captain_Frisk]

Have we figured out where the red fish is?

[Captain_Frisk]

Maybe she gave it to joth.

[Galzria]

Have we figured out where the red fish is?

Nobody has claimed it, and I believe that's going to most likely mean it's in the hands of scum. If I were to hazard a guess, I would say Shraeye, but I honestly don't know for sure. It seems we're not going to find out though, so I would assume it's going to kill a townie tonight.

[Galzria]

Maybe she gave it to joth.

That's possible.

[Dsell]

She hasn't claimed who she gave it to. I wish she would, but if someone has it I'd like to hear from them at this point.

[Captain_Frisk]

So are we condensing on a real plan here?  Seems like lynch cayvie, then ftl shoots and I strangle?  Presumably with predefined targets for each of us so we don't step on eachother?  I suppose I trust Galz given that eHalc did say no alignment flipping and / or cults.

[Lekkit]

Yeah, Galz is town.

[Dsell]

Lynching cayvie may very well be the best plan but having those 4 claim+lynch mafia is something that should at least be considered.

Definitely coordinating shots tonight, though. It's worth the risk that the mafia can redirect.

The think about cayvie is that if she's telling the truth, she's going to give a blue fish tonight, which could potentially be helpful to town, right?

[shraeye]

Lynching cayvie may very well be the best plan but having those 4 claim+lynch mafia is something that should at least be considered.

Definitely coordinating shots tonight, though. It's worth the risk that the mafia can redirect.

The think about cayvie is that if she's telling the truth, she's going to give a blue fish tonight, which could potentially be helpful to town, right?

If she told the truth about the blue fish.  I think it's possible that cayvie would tell the truth about SK, hoping we keep her to "hit scum" and then lie to us about the blue fish, so that peopel are eager to use it.

[Dsell]

Lynching cayvie may very well be the best plan but having those 4 claim+lynch mafia is something that should at least be considered.

Definitely coordinating shots tonight, though. It's worth the risk that the mafia can redirect.

The think about cayvie is that if she's telling the truth, she's going to give a blue fish tonight, which could potentially be helpful to town, right?

If she told the truth about the blue fish.  I think it's possible that cayvie would tell the truth about SK, hoping we keep her to "hit scum" and then lie to us about the blue fish, so that peopel are eager to use it.

Yes, I could see this too. She could be taking advantage of being roleblocked.

[Galzria]

So are we condensing on a real plan here?  Seems like lynch cayvie, then ftl shoots and I strangle?  Presumably with predefined targets for each of us so we don't step on eachother?  I suppose I trust Galz given that eHalc did say no alignment flipping and / or cults.

I'm worried about bussing still, but targets are pretty limited anyway, so not much can be done about it. I'm not actually sold on the Cayvie lynch. She's no direct threat as her kill is delayed. I think I would rather lynch one of the 4 likely scum and aim the other kills to that group as well.

I'm wary that you claimed a killing role and that you might be Mafia fakeclaiming Vig, but... Blah. Can't really count on it. What this all boils down to is that town gets one chance to get things right, and the game is going to rest on today's decision. If Dsell/CF/ftl are Mafia, I've basically hosed town, but I really have to trust myself and follow my reads for better or worse.

Basically that's all to say, I know absolutely nothing for sure, and

I hate being wrong

especially when the town is relying on me to be right.

Ahh, well, here my suggestion then:

I think of the 4, Ashersky is towniest. So I would like to lynch Eevee, and NK Shraeye/Lekkit.

Lekkit, my PM said I could be brought back by another 1-shot alive. If you've the power to do so, you should use it to give town an additional vote tomorrow as well.

If somebody has the Red Fish, they should use it on Frisk or Dsell to cover for me making a possible mistake. If things stand at 3 scum, 1 SK, 4 town, then we're looking at a possible 5 kills before dawn: Lynch, CF, ftl, scum, Fish. Hopefully that includes 3 scum - but it should at least include 2. At worst we end with a 1-1-1 split, with potential roles to tip things in our favor. It's the best I can see, and gives us the best chances.

[Lekkit]

The thing is, zombie votes doesn't count.

And killing me in any fashion will cause me to consume all my shots that I haven't used, turning me into a zombie for the next day. People I ressurect will get to use any powers they have, though. I'm all for raising zombies, as I do have shots left, but apparently my demise seems pretty imminent.

[Galzria]

The thing is, zombie votes doesn't count.

And killing me in any fashion will cause me to consume all my shots that I haven't used, turning me into a zombie for the next day. People I ressurect will get to use any powers they have, though. I'm all for raising zombies, as I do have shots left, but apparently my demise seems pretty imminent.

That's not my understanding:

After possessing the moderator, you hear some strange chanting. As a Spiritual Medium, you are accustomed to hearing voices that escape others' notice. But this is different. This is stronger. Strangely affected, your spirit follows the chanting. Everything feels dark, but there is a light ahead...

You burst up from the ground, back into the living world.

You have been granted "1-Shot Alive", which you now automatically use. You may post and vote in the main thread, though your presence does not change the number needed to lynch. You are alive until the end of night 4, at which point you will return to death (unless you gain another shot of this ability). This also means that you get another chance to use your night action. Unfortunately, you don't really have a night action to use. Oh well!

As I was told, my vote DOES count, but the number to lynch remains the same. Do if there's 3 alive + Zombie me, that's 2 to lynch, of which my vote may be 1.

[Lekkit]

Sorry, I misread my power. Yeah, they do count. Just got a PM about it.

[shraeye]

If somebody has the Red Fish, they should use it on Frisk or Dsell to cover for me making a possible mistake. If things stand at 3 scum, 1 SK, 4 town, then we're looking at a possible 5 kills before dawn: Lynch, CF, ftl, scum, Fish. Hopefully that includes 3 scum - but it should at least include 2. At worst we end with a 1-1-1 split, with potential roles to tip things in our favor. It's the best I can see, and gives us the best chances.

Is a 1-1-1 split with cayvie a known SK safe?  I'm not sure, especially if the blue fish doesn't do what cayvie said it would do.  The user has to use the fish or he dies, this part I believe.  But what happens if the fish in in scum's hands, what happens if the fish is with town?

I think we might need the lynch to hit cayvie, so as not to risk a blue fish being around with only 3 people left, something I'm very worried about.

[Lekkit]

Then, yeah, lynching me would be pretty bad, then.

[Lekkit]

Which means I could be killed tonight, be ressed as a zombie, ress another townie and we've got at least two confirmed townies that can vote.

[Lekkit]

Wait, I need to do the math on this one.

[Galzria]

If somebody has the Red Fish, they should use it on Frisk or Dsell to cover for me making a possible mistake. If things stand at 3 scum, 1 SK, 4 town, then we're looking at a possible 5 kills before dawn: Lynch, CF, ftl, scum, Fish. Hopefully that includes 3 scum - but it should at least include 2. At worst we end with a 1-1-1 split, with potential roles to tip things in our favor. It's the best I can see, and gives us the best chances.

Is a 1-1-1 split with cayvie a known SK safe?  I'm not sure, especially if the blue fish doesn't do what cayvie said it would do.  The user has to use the fish or he dies, this part I believe.  But what happens if the fish in in scum's hands, what happens if the fish is with town?

I think we might need the lynch to hit cayvie, so as not to risk a blue fish being around with only 3 people left, something I'm very worried about.

It's a risk, but the right move.

[Galzria]

Vote: Eevee, btw.

Frisk -> Lekkit
ftl -> Shraeye
Red Fish -> Frisk/Dsell
Lekkit -> Galzria

If we go to a 1-1-1, it will include Zombie me as a second town vote. If we kill all scum, then we lynch Cayvie.

[Lekkit]

Assuming 3 people die tonight, there will be 5 people alive and two extras. Assuming we hit only 1 mafia, there would be 2 mafia left, with three votes needed to lynch. where two can come from me and my zombie bud. The next day there would be at least 1 less townie, so that's 2 town, 1 SK and 1 mafia, if my math adds up. That would leave cayvie in a kingmaker position.

[Lekkit]

Oh, and Galz, you're alive for the rest of the night. Which means I cannot bring you back. I can only target dead people.

[Galzria]

Oh, and Galz, you're alive for the rest of the night. Which means I cannot bring you back. I can only target dead people.

After possessing the moderator, you hear some strange chanting. As a Spiritual Medium, you are accustomed to hearing voices that escape others' notice. But this is different. This is stronger. Strangely affected, your spirit follows the chanting. Everything feels dark, but there is a light ahead...

You burst up from the ground, back into the living world.

You have been granted "1-Shot Alive", which you now automatically use. You may post and vote in the main thread, though your presence does not change the number needed to lynch. You are alive until the end of night 4, at which point you will return to death (unless you gain another shot of this ability).[/b ] This also means that you get another chance to use your night action. Unfortunately, you don't really have a night action to use. Oh well!

[shraeye]

If somebody has the Red Fish, they should use it on Frisk or Dsell to cover for me making a possible mistake. If things stand at 3 scum, 1 SK, 4 town, then we're looking at a possible 5 kills before dawn: Lynch, CF, ftl, scum, Fish. Hopefully that includes 3 scum - but it should at least include 2. At worst we end with a 1-1-1 split, with potential roles to tip things in our favor. It's the best I can see, and gives us the best chances.

Is a 1-1-1 split with cayvie a known SK safe?  I'm not sure, especially if the blue fish doesn't do what cayvie said it would do.  The user has to use the fish or he dies, this part I believe.  But what happens if the fish in in scum's hands, what happens if the fish is with town?

I think we might need the lynch to hit cayvie, so as not to risk a blue fish being around with only 3 people left, something I'm very worried about.

It's a risk, but the right move.

Can you explain why it's the right move?  Apparently I'm a bit slow, and I'm not following the explanation fully.

[Lekkit]

Yeah, but you are alive during the night, when I would target you. It's an illegal target.

[Galzria]

Oh, and Galz, you're alive for the rest of the night. Which means I cannot bring you back. I can only target dead people.

After possessing the moderator, you hear some strange chanting. As a Spiritual Medium, you are accustomed to hearing voices that escape others' notice. But this is different. This is stronger. Strangely affected, your spirit follows the chanting. Everything feels dark, but there is a light ahead...

You burst up from the ground, back into the living world.

You have been granted "1-Shot Alive", which you now automatically use. You may post and vote in the main thread, though your presence does not change the number needed to lynch. You are alive until the end of night 4, at which point you will return to death (unless you gain another shot of this ability). This also means that you get another chance to use your night action. Unfortunately, you don't really have a night action to use. Oh well!

Fixed.

[Galzria]

If somebody has the Red Fish, they should use it on Frisk or Dsell to cover for me making a possible mistake. If things stand at 3 scum, 1 SK, 4 town, then we're looking at a possible 5 kills before dawn: Lynch, CF, ftl, scum, Fish. Hopefully that includes 3 scum - but it should at least include 2. At worst we end with a 1-1-1 split, with potential roles to tip things in our favor. It's the best I can see, and gives us the best chances.

Is a 1-1-1 split with cayvie a known SK safe?  I'm not sure, especially if the blue fish doesn't do what cayvie said it would do.  The user has to use the fish or he dies, this part I believe.  But what happens if the fish in in scum's hands, what happens if the fish is with town?

I think we might need the lynch to hit cayvie, so as not to risk a blue fish being around with only 3 people left, something I'm very worried about.

It's a risk, but the right move.

Can you explain why it's the right move?  Apparently I'm a bit slow, and I'm not following the explanation fully.

Convincing scum it's the right move is not possible, or worth the effort.

[Lekkit]

No.  You may only target the dead, and those who die during the night are not dead at the time you use your ability.

I want to clarify that you will be unable to revive Galzria tonight.  Your role lets you target dead players, and until the next morning Galz will be technically alive.

[Lekkit]

Either way, we're bickering over small details, there are a lot of dead town players.

[Galzria]

Yeah, but you are alive during the night, when I would target you. It's an illegal target.

See, I think you're lying, and that you're scum. I'm hopeful I'm wrong, but that's why the NK is aimed your way.

The point here, is my PM says I'll return to the grave UNLESS I receive another 1-shot alive. Care to explain why it would make that distinction if you're unable to target me, thus granting me another?

[Lekkit]

I can target you again, just not during this night.

[ftl]

So the plan is to lynch eevee and then I kill shraeye at night?

BTW, for reference, if I die tonight without getting to talk tomorrow, I'll also post the other thing I got from eHalc, so that it's easier to figure out what's up tomorrow (if the game isn't over yet).

Hey ftl, if you use your 1-shot vig, the kill will be flavoured as using a Mauser rifle.

[Captain_Frisk]

If somebody has the Red Fish, they should use it on Frisk or Dsell to cover for me making a possible mistake. If things stand at 3 scum, 1 SK, 4 town, then we're looking at a possible 5 kills before dawn: Lynch, CF, ftl, scum, Fish. Hopefully that includes 3 scum - but it should at least include 2. At worst we end with a 1-1-1 split, with potential roles to tip things in our favor. It's the best I can see, and gives us the best chances.

Is a 1-1-1 split with cayvie a known SK safe?  I'm not sure, especially if the blue fish doesn't do what cayvie said it would do.  The user has to use the fish or he dies, this part I believe.  But what happens if the fish in in scum's hands, what happens if the fish is with town?

I think we might need the lynch to hit cayvie, so as not to risk a blue fish being around with only 3 people left, something I'm very worried about.

It's a risk, but the right move.

Can you explain why it's the right move?  Apparently I'm a bit slow, and I'm not following the explanation fully.

Convincing scum it's the right move is not possible, or worth the effort.

Vote: Shraeye ?

I'm getting a much worse feeling on him than eevee / asher / lekkit, and I'd rather not leave it to chance that mischief happens.

[Galzria]

Either way, we're bickering over small details, there are a lot of dead town players.

This is true enough. If you won't/can't bring me back, fine. Bring back Jorbles for his Roleblocking power, which can be used to prevent the following evening NK.

[shraeye]

Convincing scum it's the right move is not possible, or worth the effort.

Arg, this is beginning to feel more like day 2 of ZM2, where we had the chance for a flawless town victory, and instead of thinking slowly and making sure everybody understood things, people just up and lynched me since "a win was guaranteed."  Well a win isn't guaranteed here, I'm not scum, and I really want to try to figure out how town can best win.  It's not obvious to me that leaving cayvie alive is the right move.  It's possible that you're missing something that I might not miss.  Can you explain the reasoning to me, or is this just going to be another pile of frustration?

[Lekkit]

I'm not sure if eHal can clarify that to you, because it mostly relates to my role. But if he could, I would be grateful.

[Lekkit]

Jorbles it is.

[eHalcyon]

I'm not sure if eHal can clarify that to you, because it mostly relates to my role. But if he could, I would be grateful.

I believe everything in Galzria's PM is perfectly clear, for those who read it carefully.

Matthew 11:15

[shraeye]

I'm not trying to be difficult, and I'm willing to be lynched or shot if I can see why it is of benefit for town, I just want to make sure that our outlook for day 5 is accurate and safe before town high-fives their way into a losing scenario.

[Dsell]

I don't think we should really be voting yet.

[Galzria]

I don't think we should really be voting yet.

There's only so much real information to go around, but an infinite amount of misinformation that can be spread. I think more claiming would be detrimental.

[Lekkit]

I'm on board with the plan. I brought Glaz back for a reason.

Vote: Eevee

[Dsell]

Here's what I think.

I am town. Galz is town. I very very strongly doubt Frisk can be mafia and unless there are 2 SKs, he must be town. I will trust Galz that ftl is town (it seems very credible too).

I think I believe that cayvie is SK.

That means that almost certainly, 3 of Lekkit, Eevee, Ashersky, and Shraeye are scum.

I think that making these 4 full claim in a directed manner is our best strategy at this point.

I'd say there's about a 60% chance that someone will be provably or near-provably town, and there's also a decent chance that we'll be able to disprove a fakeclaim or two.

Even if their claims don't help us decide, there is still a 75% chance that any single one of them is mafia, and the mafia have only gotten one new claim from the town.

My role gives me a fair amount of information, and some of that information may be useful in determining which claims are credible/incredible.

I think that our best bet is to use this information to try to determine who is most likely town (and thus who the mafia team is), then lynch one of the mafia, directing Frisk and ftl to shoot the other two at night in an attempt to nuke the whole team. Assuming no protection/roleblocking/other shenanigans AND assuming that the mafia give the fish to a townie, that leaves us with 2 townies and the SK tomorrow and that gives the game to town.

This all assumes that we figure out the scumteam today, which of course is ideal. But I don't think that's likely at all without a massclaim. Without a massclaim, it seems like we're just guessing.

The whole zombie issue could get really confusing in a lylo type situation, but I'd say that raising Galzria seems to be a very pro-town thing to do, and if Lekkit has the option, doing it again tonight (on another townie) is of course the thing to do. Choose however you like, I guess, but someone who's a solid townie who might somehow have more information than others, so maybe someone who was night killed and never got to share the results of night actions.

What I'm a bit afraid of is that somehow the resurrection thing was compulsory and that he could use it on a scumbuddy tonight? I'm really not sure.

Anyway, I think we should do directed fullclaims for each of these people, so that we're not just guessing here.

Oh and reread on them! I am rereading Lekkit now and will move on to someone else after, but looking at their interactions could be critical!

[Lekkit]

Allright. To avoid a quickhammer: Unvote.

[ftl]

unvote

[Dsell]

I could perhaps see the merits to having Frisk fullclaim too. Because if somehow he is mafia and just pulls a total blindside on us, that would be pretty terrible.

But I recognize perhaps the same could be said of me too, but I don't especially think it's in town's best interest for me to fullclaim.

I think if any of this happens it should be after the four in question claim (if that happens).

[cayvie]

why is dsell town again

[Lekkit]

Because of his reaction to "jo" lying.

[Dsell]

why is dsell town again

If I were mafia, being so rabid about lynching jo would make no sense, because at best it's a 1-1 town-mafia tradeoff, which isn't favorable for scum.

[Captain_Frisk]

why is dsell town again

If I were mafia, being so rabid about lynching jo would make no sense, because at best it's a 1-1 town-mafia tradeoff, which isn't favorable for scum.

Ahhh, the good old "it's too crazy" defense.  Like how I let drunk grujah off the hook....

[Dsell]

I think there are other reasons too, but I don't remember them off the top of my head. I've always been obvtown to myself.

[eHalcyon]

Vote Count 4.3

Eevee (2): ashersky, Zombie Galzria
shraeye (1): Captain_Frisk

Not voting (6): Captain_Frisk, cayvie, Dsell, Eevee, ftl, Lekkit

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Lynch deadline: Monday, November 12, 3:00pm MDT

[cayvie]

why is dsell town again

If I were mafia, being so rabid about lynching jo would make no sense, because at best it's a 1-1 town-mafia tradeoff, which isn't favorable for scum.

except, jo is dead, town, and you are apparently obvtown now

nice 1-1 trade

[Galzria]

why is dsell town again

Why is anybody listening to confscum again? Who did you give the Red Fish to?

[cayvie]

why is dsell town again

Why is anybody listening to confscum again? Who did you give the Red Fish to?

youuuu

[Dsell]

why is dsell town again

Why is anybody listening to confscum again? Who did you give the Red Fish to?

Yes, this question is super important.

It's possible that cayvie's just resigned and unwilling to play kingmaker at this point.

[cayvie]

why is dsell town again

Why is anybody listening to confscum again? Who did you give the Red Fish to?

Yes, this question is super important.

It's possible that cayvie's just resigned and unwilling to play kingmaker at this point.

helll no

i'm trying to win

i'm saying anything that will keep me alive another night!

[Dsell]

Ninja'd.


Galz, is it possible that you received a red fish but have no knowledge of it because of your zombie status?

Or does cayvie mean that she gave it to you N1?

[cayvie]

Ninja'd.


Galz, is it possible that you received a red fish but have no knowledge of it because of your zombie status?

Or does cayvie mean that she gave it to you N1?

just trollin, referring to n1

[Dsell]

Ninja'd.


Galz, is it possible that you received a red fish but have no knowledge of it because of your zombie status?

Or does cayvie mean that she gave it to you N1?

just trollin, referring to n1

Laaaaame.

I guess it's safe that if no one claims to have it, mafia has it.

[cayvie]

here's some BIG INFO TRUTH DROPS

i targeted Dsell n2

[Lekkit]

I don't have a fish. Dsell and ftl haven't mentioned having a fish. I think CF denied having a fish, which basically tells us that scum has it, if anyone.

[Galzria]

here's some BIG INFO TRUTH DROPS

i targeted Dsell n2

Ooh, fascinating!

Oh, wait, no it's not. You were Roleblocked N2.

[ashersky]

That was a lot of posts overnight.

I think asking for directed full claims feels scummy, although I can see why it might seem like a good idea before we up and lynch someone.

That said, if any of the figuring is wrong, the info helps mafia choose who to kill next.  I don't know that 3 of the 4 Galz keeps listing have to be scum.  So if we all claim, and two of us are town (that is, one other person than me), that helps mafia, even though we'll all just be sitting around trying to figure out which ONE of us is telling the truth.

I say we lynch the most likely to be scum based on behavior.  To me, that's Eevee > Cayvie > Shraeye > Lekkit.

My vote's staying where it is until Eevee owns up to lying or comes up with a reason why he could be telling the truth.

And since it's been 5 pages, I'll say again: Eevee knew before this day started who the person referred to in his role was, so asking for me to confirm was blatant fishing/lying/scheming.

[Dsell]

I say we lynch the most likely to be scum based on behavior.  To me, that's Eevee > Cayvie > Shraeye > Lekkit.

Wut. I disagree that we should lynch exclusively based on behavior.

And cayvie is admitted scum. Like, there is no way that she's town at this point.

Basically, I just think that fullclaims give us a ton more information to work from, information that we can compare to information that we already have. Now there are obviously things that can disrupt things in this game, one of us seems to be a flavor-stealing ninja after all.

But I don't see how getting all that information could possibly make us do WORSE than guessing/lynching purely off behavior.

[Dsell]

I'm pretty surprised that no one else really agrees that having those four claim is a good idea. It's very likely that 3 of the 4 are mafia! And if that's the case you can probably expect to see 3 fake claims and even if they're good, we'll be able to compare them to our own and what we know of others. It's either deal with and analyze a bunch of this info for the next 12 days or just go with behaviors and posting patterns. I think the latter is important and we should not ignore it, but I highly doubt that if we make them claim, we would see four equally convincing claims.

[Lekkit]

As I've said earlier, I'm willing to claim. You want me to?

[Dsell]

As I've said earlier, I'm willing to claim. You want me to?

I'd rather wait until Galz+ftl+Frisk have weighed in a bit more, and I'd rather have everyone do it, and I'd rather it be more directed (ie scummiest to least). If you are indeed town, then having just you claim is pretty bad.

[Lekkit]

I've pretty much claimed everything there is to my role anyway.

[ftl]

I think asking for directed full claims feels scummy

Not to me it doesn't

My vote's staying where it is until Eevee owns up to lying or comes up with a reason why he could be telling the truth.

And since it's been 5 pages, I'll say again: Eevee knew before this day started who the person referred to in his role was, so asking for me to confirm was blatant fishing/lying/scheming.

Isn't it just your word against his? I have no idea how you know he's lying. Maybe you are.

I'm pretty surprised that no one else really agrees that having those four claim is a good idea.

It seems reasonable to me. I claimed when galz told me to.

[Galzria]

My issue is that I don't completely trust Dsell. Even if he's my towniest read* doesn't mean I can't be wrong.

* - Towniest outside myself is actually ftl, then Dsell - but that's based on a complete gut instinct. Dsell is the Towniest logically.

Alright, let's do this then.

But first!

Can someone do me a HUGE favor, and make a player list with everybody's CURRENT claims, and the post # those claims were made? Little things like "Cayvie was Roleblocked N2 - Post ####" would be very, very nice as well. I want an easy reference to cross examine claims with reference to what's happened already (each Daybreak post and flavour is linked in the opening post by eHal).

If nobody does so, I'll do my best to put it together myself late tonight. After that's published, I'll direct claims.

[Lekkit]

Allright, I'm heading to bed right now. Play nice while I'm gone. I'll target Jorbles unless Galz tells me otherwise if the day ends before I wake up.

[Lekkit]

And I guess I'll se you tomorrow when it's possible claiming time for me.

[Dsell]

Allright, I'm heading to bed right now. Play nice while I'm gone. I'll target Jorbles unless Galz tells me otherwise if the day ends before I wake up.

I actually have a strong suggestion for someone to resurrect.

[Dsell]

Galz, I'll start working on that but there's no guarantee I'll finish.

[shraeye]

After that's published, I'll direct claims.

Is this really where we're going?  I'm against it, most likely scum will have fake claims already to pass out as people have said before.  I'm getting really suspicious that Dsell over and over pushed for all 4 people other than him to claim "so he can verify with his information"

My role gives me a fair amount of information, and some of that information may be useful in determining which claims are credible/incredible.

I don't especially think it's in town's best interest for me to fullclaim.

I think if any of this happens it should be after the four in question claim (if that happens).

Really?  So everybody else should claim, but you don't have to?  Because maybe there are roles that should 100% be kept hidden.  How many ways can I say that it is not in town's best interest for me to claim?  I really hope there is some sort of protection role, because you have removed my choice to be any amount of subtle.  Congrats.

[Dsell]

ftl: General Major (Flavor cop) - http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4679.msg126906#msg126906

Found that Robz was mineral, Lekkit was animal, commuted night 3, has a 1-shot vig left over.

Frisk: Lazy Jack of All Trades (X-shot Strongman Vig) - http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4679.msg117231#msg117231

Strangled Insom night 1, strangled jotheonah night 3.

cayvie: Red Herring (Inventor/Serial Killer) - http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4679.msg126664#msg126664

Gave red fish to Galz night 1, roleblocked by jorbles night 2, night 3 action unknown.

Lekkit: Resurrected Galz using a 1-shot Alive. http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4679.msg126855#msg126855

Claims to not have a fish. Claims to have another shot of Alive.

Eevee: Claims that if he targets a mailman-flavored character, he will kill that player and himself. That's all I recall. http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4679.msg118075#msg118075

Not anything else that I can see, really.

Ashersky: Claims to be the mail-carrier that Eevee should not target. Claims to be a robot. http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4679.msg126707#msg126707

Not much else. He says he can account for the ice-cream scoop inconsistency.

Shraeye: Nothing nothing nothing. I remember nothing, and I even skimmed his posts quickly and found nothing at all. If there was anything, someone point it out.

Dsell: I don't believe I've posted anything either, except that my role has given me a fair amount of information about the gamestate. Galzria revealed (correctly) that I have access to the Spectator QT.

Galz is the spiritual medium, with the ability to post (in disguise) in the spectator QT.

Sorry this isn't formatted beautifully, and it may not be perfectly comprehensive either. But it should be a good start anyway.

[Dsell]

After that's published, I'll direct claims.

Is this really where we're going?  I'm against it, most likely scum will have fake claims already to pass out as people have said before.  I'm getting really suspicious that Dsell over and over pushed for all 4 people other than him to claim "so he can verify with his information"

My role gives me a fair amount of information, and some of that information may be useful in determining which claims are credible/incredible.

I don't especially think it's in town's best interest for me to fullclaim.

I think if any of this happens it should be after the four in question claim (if that happens).

Really?  So everybody else should claim, but you don't have to?  Because maybe there are roles that should 100% be kept hidden.  How many ways can I say that it is not in town's best interest for me to claim?  I really hope there is some sort of protection role, because you have removed my choice to be any amount of subtle.  Congrats.

I'm town and that fact is obvious to Galzria, who is confirmed town. Process of elimination has largely narrowed it down to the group of you four, so it doesn't make sense for others to claim at this time. It just so happens that ftl and cayvie voluntarily claimed.

[shraeye]

I'm town and that fact is obvious to Galzria, who is confirmed town.

My issue is that I don't completely trust Dsell. Even if he's my towniest read* doesn't mean I can't be wrong.

[Galzria]

After that's published, I'll direct claims.

Is this really where we're going?  I'm against it, most likely scum will have fake claims already to pass out as people have said before.  I'm getting really suspicious that Dsell over and over pushed for all 4 people other than him to claim "so he can verify with his information"

My role gives me a fair amount of information, and some of that information may be useful in determining which claims are credible/incredible.

I don't especially think it's in town's best interest for me to fullclaim.

I think if any of this happens it should be after the four in question claim (if that happens).

Really?  So everybody else should claim, but you don't have to?  Because maybe there are roles that should 100% be kept hidden.  How many ways can I say that it is not in town's best interest for me to claim?  I really hope there is some sort of protection role, because you have removed my choice to be any amount of subtle.  Congrats.

It's like you're intentionally missing the point here:

There's not much game left. Tomorrow is it - tops. And with the plethora of kills going around tonight, the game may very well end tonight. Dsell's going to claim too. I don't trust him enough to let him direct everything. I've laid out my plan in a previous post for if we lynched now. Unless I see compelling reason to alert it, it'll be my fallback option since it's based on as little false information as I could muster. Now it's time to get messy. We're in the hole we are because scum has been able to quietly sit back and not claim or say anything. They've been uninvolved with the process while we've systematically eliminated anybody who might seem associated. That didn't work. Now it's time to get everyone involved. There is no role that is do much greater than any other that scum can just wipe it out and win. As it stands now, there's two investigative claims (of sorts), and 3 kills out there. Mafia will already have to choose. At most (with Red Fish), they get two choices. If we're still playing tomorrow, and with whoever Lekkit brings back, hopefully we'll stand a reasonable chance to win. Right now though, it's time to roll the dice because otherwise we're quite likely guessing randomly in MyLo (which again, we may end up doing anyway).

[Dsell]

I'm town and that fact is obvious to Galzria, who is confirmed town.

My issue is that I don't completely trust Dsell. Even if he's my towniest read* doesn't mean I can't be wrong.

Well, mostly obvious then. He said somewhere earlier that I was 95% town. He's second-guessing himself because he really has to question his reads, but suffice it to say that I'm much more confirmed than any of you 4.

And again, my claim might not prove me as town, but it is a town role and I am willing to claim, but only if desired by Galz and company and only after the four of you claim.

[ftl]

minor correction to your stuff up there, Robz was vegetable not mineral

[Dsell]

minor correction to your stuff up there, Robz was vegetable not mineral

Oops. My brain was disconnected from my fingers for a second there. Thanks.

[shraeye]

It's like you're intentionally missing the point here:

There's not much game left. Tomorrow is it - tops. And with the plethora of kills going around tonight, the game may very well end tonight. Dsell's going to claim too. I don't trust him enough to let him direct everything. I've laid out my plan in a previous post for if we lynched now. Unless I see compelling reason to alert it, it'll be my fallback option since it's based on as little false information as I could muster. Now it's time to get messy. We're in the hole we are because scum has been able to quietly sit back and not claim or say anything. They've been uninvolved with the process while we've systematically eliminated anybody who might seem associated. That didn't work. Now it's time to get everyone involved. There is no role that is do much greater than any other that scum can just wipe it out and win. As it stands now, there's two investigative claims (of sorts), and 3 kills out there. Mafia will already have to choose. At most (with Red Fish), they get two choices. If we're still playing tomorrow, and with whoever Lekkit brings back, hopefully we'll stand a reasonable chance to win. Right now though, it's time to roll the dice because otherwise we're quite likely guessing randomly in MyLo (which again, we may end up doing anyway).

I may be missing the point, but it's not entirely intentional.  This is the first nontrivial endgame I've been near (ZM2 hardly counts) so there are things I don't know about mylo/lylo situations that you do.  But there are things about this endgame that I know which you don't; I know we are not as bad off as we look.  I'm pretty sure the plan you laid out before hit my biggest scum reads and sounded like a really good idea, I was just wary about cayvie staying alive.  When I asked about it, you just said I was scum, which was, like, the opposite of helpful.

[Galzria]

Ha! My vision must not be very good because I missed 20-20!

Thanks Dsell, that's a great place to start. The first thing I want to know is from Frisk:

How many shots?

[Dsell]

Ha! My vision must not be very good because I missed 20-20!

Ehhh? What do you mean?

No guarantees Frisk will even be on anymore tonight, so now I guess we just wait.

[Galzria]

It's like you're intentionally missing the point here:

There's not much game left. Tomorrow is it - tops. And with the plethora of kills going around tonight, the game may very well end tonight. Dsell's going to claim too. I don't trust him enough to let him direct everything. I've laid out my plan in a previous post for if we lynched now. Unless I see compelling reason to alert it, it'll be my fallback option since it's based on as little false information as I could muster. Now it's time to get messy. We're in the hole we are because scum has been able to quietly sit back and not claim or say anything. They've been uninvolved with the process while we've systematically eliminated anybody who might seem associated. That didn't work. Now it's time to get everyone involved. There is no role that is do much greater than any other that scum can just wipe it out and win. As it stands now, there's two investigative claims (of sorts), and 3 kills out there. Mafia will already have to choose. At most (with Red Fish), they get two choices. If we're still playing tomorrow, and with whoever Lekkit brings back, hopefully we'll stand a reasonable chance to win. Right now though, it's time to roll the dice because otherwise we're quite likely guessing randomly in MyLo (which again, we may end up doing anyway).

I may be missing the point, but it's not entirely intentional.  This is the first nontrivial endgame I've been near (ZM2 hardly counts) so there are things I don't know about mylo/lylo situations that you do.  But there are things about this endgame that I know which you don't; I know we are not as bad off as we look.  I'm pretty sure the plan you laid out before hit my biggest scum reads and sounded like a really good idea, I was just wary about cayvie staying alive.  When I asked about it, you just said I was scum, which was, like, the opposite of helpful.

The thing about Cayvie, is that regardless of what the Blue Fish does, she doesn't appear to have any direct means of killing. By this I mean that she does not seem to be able to pick a target, and kill them. At least not on the night she targets them.

Furthermore, her ability in general is one that gives other people power. My hope is that between tonight and tomorrow, we can bring the game to an end, thus whoever she gives the Fish to tonight becomes irrelevant, and in turn, makes her a non-issue for town. This gives us the ability to go after people with the direct ability to kill us.

Further to my comment, SK hunting is a scumtell - by which I mean scum generally want to eliminate people with the ability to kill. Any focus on Cayvie when the field of possible MAFIA is narrowed down so much reads scummy- since with the combination of powers that we have, we've got a damn good chance of eliminating two scum by tomorrow morning, and with luck 3.

[ashersky]

How many shots?

Further to this, I'd be interested to know if any other X-shot roles have run out of shots.

[Galzria]

Ha! My vision must not be very good because I missed 20-20!

Ehhh? What do you mean?

No guarantees Frisk will even be on anymore tonight, so now I guess we just wait.

I missed your post (#2020) when reading back after ignoring the "new post" warning of my own post. Perfect vision is 20-20. I'm making a small joke at my own expense for having missed your post is all.

And I realize we may have to wait. Luckily the deadline is a ways off still. But in the interest of being complete, it's important to know about Frisk. I've been one who's held hope since D2 that Frisk is what he claims (no idea why, but I've really wanted to believe him. Probably my history in M-VI), but I don't want to rule anything out.

[Dsell]

Ha! My vision must not be very good because I missed 20-20!

Ehhh? What do you mean?

No guarantees Frisk will even be on anymore tonight, so now I guess we just wait.

I missed your post (#2020) when reading back after ignoring the "new post" warning of my own post. Perfect vision is 20-20. I'm making a small joke at my own expense for having missed your post is all.

Goooootcha. I wasn't paying any attention to post numbers. XD

[Eevee]

hmm, i feel most of the plans laid out now were suggested by me before all this activity started happening.

i suggested a massclaim between me, ashersky, shraeye and lekkit. still support it. galzria should lead it. apparently he wants dsell to fullclaim too, i'm fine with that. i thought frisk fullclaimed other than the amount of shots he has already?

i still dont know AT ALL what you are referring to ashersky. like literally i have no clue. all the information i have i've already posted. i haven't been getting any new flavor after the role pm or anything like that. know nothing i didnt when i posted originally.

i'm here to answer any question now btw, shoot me! dont know how much i'll be around in the following days, but the deadline is far away still.

[Galzria]

hmm, i feel most of the plans laid out now were suggested by me before all this activity started happening.

i suggested a massclaim between me, ashersky, shraeye and lekkit. still support it. galzria should lead it. apparently he wants dsell to fullclaim too, i'm fine with that. i thought frisk fullclaimed other than the amount of shots he has already?

i still dont know AT ALL what you are referring to ashersky. like literally i have no clue. all the information i have i've already posted. i haven't been getting any new flavor after the role pm or anything like that. know nothing i didnt when i posted originally.

i'm here to answer any question now btw, shoot me! dont know how much i'll be around in the following days, but the deadline is far away still.

Without seeing Ash's claim yet, I don't know what he's driving at... But if it's just that "knowing" he was the person your PM referenced... I "knew" that as well, as did, I think, most the thread when right before Thread Lock (during twilight) he said "Don't target me Eevee!".

So I don't put much weight in that particular argument when considering your scumminess.

[Galzria]

I will state again I originally started the Robz wagon, for better or worse.

Eevee, don't target me.

This post is the one I referenced above, which made it clear (I thought) that he was the subject of your PM.

[Dsell]

Lekkit/Galz: Does the resurrected zombie player get to use their power at all the next night, or do they come back powerless?

If they can use their power, Jorbles is a great choice. If not, I would suggest jo, since he was killed night 4 and it's possible that his role result could help shed light on some of what's happening. We know exactly who got strawberry ice cream nights one and two, but I don't remember hearing anyone claim to get vanilla either night 2 or 3. So there's a possibility, however slight, that he might have a key piece of information.

[Eevee]

I will state again I originally started the Robz wagon, for better or worse.

Eevee, don't target me.

This post is the one I referenced above, which made it clear (I thought) that he was the subject of your PM.

Oh I absolutely thought so too at the time! Today he posted something like "Eevee apparently has this one person he can't target", which to me sounded like he doubted if that was true. That made me confused, I asked a clarifying question "WAIT IT ISNT YOU!?!". And he now says I'm scummy and lying for "not knowing"... I just don't understand, does it make any sense to you?

[Galzria]

Lekkit/Galz: Does the resurrected zombie player get to use their power at all the next night, or do they come back powerless?

If they can use their power, Jorbles is a great choice. If not, I would suggest jo, since he was killed night 4 and it's possible that his role result could help shed light on some of what's happening. We know exactly who got strawberry ice cream nights one and two, but I don't remember hearing anyone claim to get vanilla either night 2 or 3. So there's a possibility, however slight, that he might have a key piece of information.

After possessing the moderator, you hear some strange chanting. As a Spiritual Medium, you are accustomed to hearing voices that escape others' notice. But this is different. This is stronger. Strangely affected, your spirit follows the chanting. Everything feels dark, but there is a light ahead...

You burst up from the ground, back into the living world.

You have been granted "1-Shot Alive", which you now automatically use. You may post and vote in the main thread, though your presence does not change the number needed to lynch. You are alive until the end of night 4, at which point you will return to death (unless you gain another shot of this ability). This also means that you get another chance to use your night action. Unfortunately, you don't really have a night action to use. Oh well!

Hence my suggestion of Jorbles in my previously laid out plans.

[Dsell]

Alrighty then. Jorbles it is.

[Galzria]

Lekkit/Galz: Does the resurrected zombie player get to use their power at all the next night, or do they come back powerless?

If they can use their power, Jorbles is a great choice. If not, I would suggest jo, since he was killed night 4 and it's possible that his role result could help shed light on some of what's happening. We know exactly who got strawberry ice cream nights one and two, but I don't remember hearing anyone claim to get vanilla either night 2 or 3. So there's a possibility, however slight, that he might have a key piece of information.

Night 2 (the night I died), Joth claimed to have missed the deadline for using his night power, and nobody claimed getting fed Vanilla. Don't know about N3.

[Galzria]

I will state again I originally started the Robz wagon, for better or worse.

Eevee, don't target me.

This post is the one I referenced above, which made it clear (I thought) that he was the subject of your PM.

Oh I absolutely thought so too at the time! Today he posted something like "Eevee apparently has this one person he can't target", which to me sounded like he doubted if that was true. That made me confused, I asked a clarifying question "WAIT IT ISNT YOU!?!". And he now says I'm scummy and lying for "not knowing"... I just don't understand, does it make any sense to you?

Yeah, we'll get more clarification hopefully when it's time for Ashersky to claim - but I was slightly confused myself since you claimed that flavour detail D2, and his post came during twilight D2, so I thought that was all sorted out already.

[Galzria]

Actually... Hmm...

Ashersky, I would like you to claim first. You may do so as soon as you read this. Full PM please.

[Eevee]

I too until his post today about it, my in my mind reasonable ask for clarification and him now going berserk on me for "fishing" (for what!?) and lying (where!).

[shraeye]

but I don't remember hearing anyone claim to get vanilla either night 2 or 3. So there's a possibility, however slight, that he might have a key piece of information.

Night 2, joth gave nobody icecream.
Night 3, I got icecream.

[ashersky]

Actually... Hmm...

Ashersky, I would like you to claim first. You may do so as soon as you read this. Full PM please.

Ok, but hear this.  I will also include why Eevee is continuing to lie.  Will copy into a new post.

[ashersky]

Flavour name: Motivational Speaker Bot
Role name: Recharger/Mailman
Alignment: Town

Abilities:

Everyone is wonderful and they all deserve to know it.  That’s what your programming says, at least.  Your sole purpose in this world is to record motivational speeches for those less upbeat than you.  Not everyone can run at 15 GHz, but you can certainly try to get them there!

Each night, you may target one other player, living or dead.  You may send a short private message (we’ll say 255 characters but I may be flexible) to that player via the moderator (that is, send it to me and I will pass it along).  The moderator reserves the right to redact parts of the message.  Your identity will not be revealed by the mod, though you may include it in the message if you wish.  In fact, you may put anything in your message so long as it stays within the character limit.  Or you could send nothing at all, if you wish to remain silent (but that wouldn’t be very motivational, now would it?).

If that player has an X-shot ability, they will be so moved by your message (or magnificent silence) that they gain an additional shot.  This only works on actual abilities -- it will not charge up gadgets/buttons/whatever.  They don’t need gadgets to be awesome!

Shraeye N1, Jorbles N2 (hence extra scoop), Eevee N3.  The first two I did not include my name.  To Eevee, I did.  Hence, he knew I was the mailman, because I mailed him.  I mailed Eevee, with my name in it, as the mailman he can't target.  He knew I was the mailman.  Why lie?

Vote: Eevee times a million.

[Eevee]

My role doesn't have "shots" or anything like that, but I most definitely didn't get anything from ashersky last night or any night. Why on earth would I lie about this?

[ashersky]

My role doesn't have "shots" or anything like that, but I most definitely didn't get anything from ashersky last night or any night. Why on earth would I lie about this?

I mailed you a message last night.  So either this is a bastard game (mod confirmed to me on the message getting sent) or you are lying. 

[Eevee]

Don't know what to tell you ashersky, received nothing. Again, why would I lie? If there is somekind of an error, eHalc will surely fix it.. idk, obviously somekind of a mail stealer or redirector could be afoot, but.. I'm fairly confident the scum trio is ashersky, Lekkit and shraeye. Everything points there, I don't know why you'd lie about this.

Flavour name: Sew Me
Role name: Doctor
Alignment: Town

Abilities:

Though once an ordinary citizen, the loneliness that followed from your wife leaving you really opened your eyes to the wonderful world of sartorial workmanship. You became quite attached to your lovely 3-speed Sewing Machine. After all, you had no one else anymore. And then you literally became attached to it. You don’t remember if it was a secret government experiment gone wrong or if you had simply gotten overambitious with sewing patterns, but you are now part machine and part man. It's ok though, all of those man-parts were holding you back anyway. Man can give in to temptation, can give in to greed, can give in to anger. Your ex-wife gave into Pete the Postman. The only logical plan was to become a protector of those still locked inside their human forms. No wait! A protector of everything. Yes, that is your calling now.

You are the town doctor. Each night, you may send me the name of a fellow player. You will protect that player from death, and do it so quickly he won't even notice what was about to hit him. Unless you target Pete the Postman. If you do, you won't be able to control your anger and you'll first kill him and then commit suicide out of sheer guilt. So better avoid Pete the Postman.

Night 1 I targeted Joth
Night 2 I targeted shraeye
Night 3 I targeted Joth again (damnu Frisk)

i breadcrumbed this plethora of times day 1, often "mistyping" cut instead of but, and also talking about "sewing up cases" and stuff like that twice iirc. I can control f back to find it if you want, being the idiot I am I didn't take note of the posts.

[ashersky]

Eevee, no idea what to tell you, or anyone else.  I send you a message last night.  With my name in it.  Signed, even.

Did anyone roleblock me?  Although that sounds dumb, as who would do that anyway?  That's the only thing I can come up with as a reason you wouldn't receive my mail.

Simplest thing?  You are lying to make me look like a liar, hoping folks side with you over me.

Vote: Eevee.

[Eevee]

If someone town-aligned knows whats up (scum is welcome too), speak up then yes please.

[Galzria]

Frisk, full PM please, with shots count.

Shraeye, full PM please.

[Captain_Frisk]

You have my full pm.  # of shots is (i believe) 2 - so 0 remaining.  I have never received an update from ehalc regarding how many shots I have remaining (unlike joth apparently).  However, joth seems to have gained 1 in the past somehow, so presumably I might be able to increase this number somehow.

[Galzria]

So you're standing by this as your PM, in it's entirety?:

Flavour name: Lazy Jack of All Trades
Role name: 2-Shot Strongman Vig
Alignment: Town

Abilities:

You are truly a jack of all trades - and a master of none. Unfortunately, you spent all of your free time working out instead of practicing with weapons, learning how to track people, investigate them etc. On the plus side, you're pretty strong.

If you have any shots remaining, you may choose to kill someone at night. This kill is unblockable (breaks through doctor protection, bulletproof, etc.).

[Captain_Frisk]

Yep.  I think Cayvie might be lying though.

[ashersky]

Should I recharge Frisk tonight?

[Eevee]

Yep.  I think Cayvie might be lying though.

Why?

[Captain_Frisk]

Something about a serial killer who hands out fishes that can be used to kill her doesn't add up. 

[Dsell]

I don't know if people want to hear my thoughts now or wait until after all claiming's done, but that claim makes me quite sure that Eevee is scum.

[Dsell]

I went and checked my PMs from eHal to see whether the 2-spaces-after-periods thing was true, and indeed my Role PM is written that way too. Most other messages are written that way as well, though there were some messages where just 1 space was used. So while it does appear to be a trend consistent with my messages, it doesn't seem to quite be a rule.

I admit that it does make Frisk's PM look slightly worse, but it's not damning.

[Lekkit]

It's also coherent with Archetype's, Watno's, ftl's and cayvie's PM.

[Dsell]

I'm not sure what the implications of a scum Frisk would be. I don't understand how he could be mafia because he killed Insomniac the same night as the apparent flavor-stealing ninja.

It's still possible there's a serial killer faction (in cayvie's PM it's listed as "Alignment" not "Role") and that cayvie/Frisk are both in it.

I suppose it's possible that Frisk is the actual SK and cayvie is mafia claiming SK...this would be a strange scenario (it reminds me of the last day of MIV) that could involve Frisk knowing that cayvie is lying without being able to directly tell the town how he knows she's lying.

I agree that Frisk's role seems much more like a SK role than cayvie's. Frisk's PM looks doctored, whereas cayvie's does not.

It's also possible that a redirector caused Frisk (or the ninja, I suppose) to target Insom when he meant to target someone else. But a redirector wouldn't own up to that, I'm sure. Except a redirector would probably be scum, and why would scum cause the two kills to conflict.

I'm not sure. We might have to run through more situations to include these possibilities.

[Captain_Frisk]

I generally write with 2 spaces:

Here's an example from over a year ago:

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=263.msg5151#msg5151

[Galzria]

Hey! Stop analyzing! Last thing I want is for future claims to have discussion thoughts about previous claims! We'll discuss them all when they're out there.

Shraeye is next, I believe.

[shraeye]

Flavour name: Ancient Oak Tree
Role name: 1-Shot Deathproof
Alignment: Town

Ability:

You were raised on sunlight and water.  Except the sunlight was really gamma radiation.  And the water was really the blood of those departed.

Whatever the case, you are pretty much the most anguished Oak tree around.  It’s a little harder to judge if you consider all deciduous trees, and certainly there are some really crazy conifers out there, but out of all the Oak trees you are definitely the most miserable.  Well, top three.  Definitely top three in your home forest.  Too bad death won't even take the pain away.

When you would be killed in any way, you lose one shot of your Deathproof instead.  Flavour will make note of when you become a Tree Stump (it will be a little more flavourful than that, of course).  When you have 0 Shots remaining, you become a Tree Stump, at which point you may truly be killed.  Even as a Stump you may still vote.


stuff thats useful:
i got ashersky's boost night 1
i got no update from eHalcyon on night 2
i got vanilla icecream (from Joth presumably) night 3

[Galzria]

Thank you Shraeye.

Dsell next.

[Galzria]

Lekkit last.

[Lekkit]

So I wait untill Dsell has posted?

[Galzria]

So I wait untill Dsell has posted?

Yes please. Hopefully won't be long. He's generally active.

[Lekkit]

And currently online.

[Captain_Frisk]

Hmmm... lekkit hides his online status?

[Galzria]

Hmmm... lekkit hides his online status?

That's never an indicator worthy of value. Volt did for the longest time, until (I think) SFS commented and he changed it.

[Captain_Frisk]

I know, but it just "feels" scummy.  It's something that I've wanted to do as scum, but haven't because it seems so dirty.  Willfully denying information!

[Lekkit]

Nope, just switcing computer.

[Dsell]

Hey guys. I checked the forum via my iPod for about 1 minute at around 11:30, sorry about the confusion.

I would prefer that Lekkit claim first. I don't exactly think he'd switch his claim around a bunch because of what I say, but there is always a chance.

Anyway my claim is rather large and full of information, so I'll need to synthesize it; give me a few minutes.

[Captain_Frisk]

Hey guys. I checked the forum via my iPod for about 1 minute at around 11:30, sorry about the confusion.

I would prefer that Lekkit claim first. I don't exactly think he'd switch his claim around a bunch because of what I say, but there is always a chance.

Anyway my claim is rather large and full of information, so I'll need to synthesize it; give me a few minutes.

Quoting for emphasis.

[shraeye]

Hey guys. I checked the forum via my iPod for about 1 minute at around 11:30, sorry about the confusion.

I would prefer that Lekkit claim first. I don't exactly think he'd switch his claim around a bunch because of what I say, but there is always a chance.

Anyway my claim is rather large and full of information, so I'll need to synthesize it; give me a few minutes.

Then take that time, synthesize it, and post it.  I disagree with having supposedly conftown Dsell determine the order instead of actual conftown Galzria.  You go first, per Galz's plan.

[Captain_Frisk]

I'm not sure what synthesizing there would be to do... quote the pm, and then start posting your night actions and results?

[shraeye]

I'm not sure what synthesizing there would be to do... quote the pm, and then start posting your night actions and results?

exactly.

[Dsell]

Flavour name: External Hard Drive
Role name: Universal Backup
Alignment: Town

Abilities:

You can never be too careful!  Everything must be backed up.  Well, most things.  There’s only so much disk space, after all, and you’re already full of Very Important Files.  Mostly lolcats and animated gifs.  But you do have a little bit of extra space for some other data!

You will (usually) gain a one-shot version of the power of the last person to die.  This generally means that you will have the night power of whoever was just lynched.  If multiple players die simultaneously for whatever reason, I will determine the order based on logic if possible, PM timestamps otherwise, and at random if need be.  You cannot save up these 1-shot abilities.  Usually this means that you will never have the chance to use the powers of players who are night killed, though there may be exceptions.

Night 1 I acquired Archetype's ability, which was Tracker. I tracked ftl but didn't get any result. (I at first assumed he didn't target anyone. Later in the day eHal sent a correction saying a scoop of strawberry ice cream was forced down my mouth in the night. Still later in the day, ftl posted about targeting Robz, indicating that the ice cream did in fact have the effect of roleblocking me.)

Day 2 I acquired Insomniac's shepherd ability. He had many, many choices of things to do, but there were only titles with a bit of flavor, no actual description. One ability was not available. It was "Surround Sound," so I'm sure Insomniac was responsible for "Surprise, Surprise" being played to all of us in the night. I don't know if any of these abilities had any effect beyond flavor and I never got to use any of them because those powers were overridden by the powers I received after the lynch...

Night 2 I acquired Robz' kelptomaniac power. I got to target a player to steal something related to their power. I chose Jotheonah and stole a vanilla ice cream scoop, which appeared to have the power to doctor someone. (Can't doctor during the day though.) However, at the same time, I received two more programs overriding each other. First I received Galzria's spirit medium power, which gave me access to the Spectator QT and would have let me post there, except that it was immediately overridden by Jorbles' power, the strawberry ice cream scoop and the power to roleblock. That was all during night 2 and the beginning of day 3.

Night 3 I got Watno's power to shoot paint at two people to watch them. I shot paint at Frisk and Ashersky (Asher was my biggest town read, nearly tied with jo, who I now believed to be town based on the doctoring ability...I mentioned on day 3 that I was very confused about jo because he appeared to be doctor but then was "obviously" lying in the Spec QT...once that was resolved and I wasn't confused anymore I figured he must be the doctor. I almost targeted jo and was so so so frustrated that I didn't because...), neither of them had paint traces. I thought mafia might try to take out Frisk because his role could be dangerous to them.

At the beginning of day 4 (now) I got jo's ability to doctor again after he died. However, this will be overridden if we lynch someone, and I'll get a 1-shot of their power.

I think that covers everything. If you have more specific questions, ask away. This leads me to draw conclusions about two players who've already claimed, but I suppose I'll hold out until we're totally done.

[Captain_Frisk]

Ok, that's actually worthy of synthesis

[Lekkit]

And here's mine.

Flavour name: Insane Doctor
Role name: 3-Shot Necromancer
Alignment: Town

Abilities:

BWAHAHAHAHA!  They said you were crazy, but you’ve worked it out.  All you had to do was carry the one and replace Schrodinger’s Cat with Pavlov’s Dog.  Then, some magic and batteries (available at the local hardware store) was enough to bring the whole Rube Goldberg together.  Genius!  With your mad power, you are able to bring back the dead.

Each night, until you run out of shots, you may target one dead player.  Barring outside influence, the target will be revived in the morning and will survive until the end of that night (i.e. they will be able to use their night action, if they have one).  A zombie player may vote but its presence will not change the number of votes needed to lynch.  A zombie player cannot be voted upon.  Zombies retain their original alignment.  It will be announced that the zombie looks sickly and decomposed and will not likely survive for very long.

You will not gain access to the Dead Player QT when you die if you still have any shots remaining.  Instead, you will automatically consume all remaining shots and revive yourself.  Note that the Dead Player QT will be locked for the day while a zombie (other than you) is raised.

For game mechanic purposes, your ability adds “1-shot Alive” to the dead player’s role as a regular action, which that player automatically uses.

I've only used my power once, and that was on Galz.

[Captain_Frisk]

Ok, so dsell's claim seems to be at odds with eevee's.  2 doctors seems unlikely, but then again we're left to rely on DSell's word.

DSell's role is like a suped up rolecop, but Mafia claiming doctor is always a super easy scum.  I've done it. 

DSell:

Why wouldn't you want to lynch me and use the kill for yourself?

I don't think I believe Frisk's claim, but Galz is making me want to vote Jorbles. We can direct Frisk's kill tonight based on Jorble's flip, and then we'd be in a pretty good spot tomorrow.

Eevee:

Can you clarify your thinking behind your protection targets?

[Captain_Frisk]

If DSell is telling the truth, then we can control the fish from the only admitted scum.

[Dsell]

Lekkit is right that using his power on Galz was a very pro-town thing to do. And it doesn't seem like a mafia role, though it's possible there is more sinisterness to the role than we can see.

There was a missing kill last night. It looks as though the Mafia kill was doctored. Jo doctored Shraeye, which gives his towniness some weight. Also, if he's mafia and telling the truth about his role, then we've just lost lost lost because he can't be killed easily at all.

Eevee claims to be doctor but I don't buy it. Not a bit. Jo was doctor and I rather doubt we'd have two plain old doctors. His flavor, and specifically the line, "and do it so quickly he won't even notice what was about to hit him" looks rather suspicious to me. And sewing doesn't scream doctor to me. Furthermore, he claims to have doctored jo, which is convenient because he was killed by a strongman.

Ashersky is a tough nut to crack. I need to look over the claim again. Using his power on Shraeye night 1 links them together, and it seems unlikely that scum-Ashersky would use that particular power on town-Shraeye, though I could definitely see him using it on scum-Shraeye (but that seems broken from a game-balance perspective). Furthermore, the only evidence we have that Ashersky's claim is true at all is from Shraeye himself, right?

Conspiracy: The mafia (Eevee, Shraeye, Ashersky for purposes of the conspiracy) figured out that the third ice-cream man must be a doctor. So they didn't shoot last night to make it look like whoever got ice cream (maybe they knew it was Shraeye) would be townie. And then they just covered each others' stories. That doesn't make tons of sense. /conspiracy

[Captain_Frisk]

Asher dropped hints about knowing why joth didn't run out of scoops previously.

[Dsell]

Why wouldn't you want to lynch me and use the kill for yourself?

Because for the majority of this game I thought you were SK, and I'd rather lynch mafia. Besides, if you used your kill outside of how we directed it, we'd lynch you.

Now that you claim to have 0 shots it is a bit more tempting, however, I am less sure that you're mafia than others, and I think it's really important to lynch mafia today. But don't worry, I'm coming around to the idea that you're scum again.

[Dsell]

Asher dropped hints about knowing why joth didn't run out of scoops previously.

You're right. This validates his claim somewhat.

What if mafia were all just given normal looking roles, and their major advantage was just having the NK? The only claim without any substantiation is Eevee's and sort of Shraeye's.

[Galzria]

So. Who wants to take a stab at explaining the Vanilla Flavour Kills, based off the claims we have?

[Dsell]

So. Who wants to take a stab at explaining the Vanilla Flavour Kills, based off the claims we have?

I was gonna ask this same thing. This is the biggest mystery to me. I gotta assume it's Eevee, having the least substantiated claim. Maybe Shraeye.

It could also be a subtext in any one of the Mafia Role PMs. A "for mafia eyes only" part of the power.

[Captain_Frisk]

Nobody has claimed receiving the red fish?

[ftl]

There was a missing kill last night. It looks as though the Mafia kill was doctored.

Or they targeted me and the kill didn't hit because I commuted

[Galzria]

Man, I wish I was at a computer and not on my mobile. Trying to sort through this stuff is a pain.

[Lekkit]

shraeye, what did the motivation you recieved from asher look like?

[shraeye]

The ashersky role doesn't make sense as scum.  If his claim is true, as I know it is based on what he did to me, then he is pretty much conftown.  It makes no sense to use this power on anyone other than his scumteam if he was mafa.  He used it on me, and this is Dsell's crazy scum conspiracy, but that would be too broken of a setup by eHalc.  If me and asher were both scum, he'd have charged me up every single night.  He also usedthis on the icecream neighborhood (presumably he used it on jorbles, so the neighborhood scoops went up but joth didn't know it) and they're all town.  So I conclude that asher is absolutely town.

I'm thinking through the other claims now, nothing makes complete sense for the icecream scoop based on the roles as posted.  I need to read Dsell's claim closer.  It looks like he could take things from recently killed players.  He says that he can only use their power, but maybe he took a scoop from archetype and has been bashing with it?  It would be like the Robz thief role, except Robz steals from the living and Dsell steals from the dead.

I'm certain that cayvie's alignment of SK is true, but I'm still suspicious of her powers being as stated.

Is there confirmation from anyone other than Dsell that joth was a doctor?  Was there even confirmation from Dsell?  I wasn't told anything about being protected last night, just that I had icecream stuffed in a knot of my trunk.  I'm considering if Eevee's doctor claim can be real, it felt not real to me, as I had a hunch that joth was doctor, but there was no confirmation there.  I'm wary about using DSell's word that joth was a doctor as the reason Eevee is lying.   Dsell did claim after Eevee, so may have written things to make eevee's claim look worse.  I'm still suspicious of how he tried to be the very last to claim.

More thoughts will come later, but I'm highly suspicious of DSell, Eevee.  Certain ash, me are town.  certain cayvie is SK.  lekkit, frisk, ftl i'm unsure of.  but i'm leaning that lekkit is also scum, ftl is town-flavourcop, frisk is town-vig.

[Captain_Frisk]

The ashersky role doesn't make sense as scum.  If his claim is true, as I know it is based on what he did to me, then he is pretty much conftown.  It makes no sense to use this power on anyone other than his scumteam if he was mafa.  He used it on me, and this is Dsell's crazy scum conspiracy, but that would be too broken of a setup by eHalc.  If me and asher were both scum, he'd have charged me up every single night.  He also usedthis on the icecream neighborhood (presumably he used it on jorbles, so the neighborhood scoops went up but joth didn't know it) and they're all town.  So I conclude that asher is absolutely town.

The only plausible thought i could have for Asher is that there's more than he's listing (ie - it's mandatory - and may not target scum).  It would get him town cred, and may offset some super scum power role - like yours would be.  I think its pretty clear that the two of you can't be scum AND be truthful about your powers, because that would be OP. 

[shraeye]

shraeye, what did the motivation you recieved from asher look like?

"You are a beautiful flower, and like your growing town reads, are blossoming.  Continue to trust your instincts, and the good people of the town will follow."

At the time I came up with a lot of crazy theories regarding this.  I thought somehow I had earned this by having the best reads on people, or it was given to everyone, or it was mod-trolling and it would disappear later.  i figured out what was up when joth said there was a problem with the scoop-count and this was confirmed when ashersky said he knew why the discrepancy existed.

[cayvie]

fwiw i hope jo was a doctor, if only because it'll mean at least one of my reads this game wasn't completely wrong

[shraeye]

The only plausible thought i could have for Asher is that there's more than he's listing (ie - it's mandatory - and may not target scum).  It would get him town cred, and may offset some super scum power role - like yours would be.  I think its pretty clear that the two of you can't be scum AND be truthful about your powers, because that would be OP.

Regarding my role, I thought from the beginning that I was "neo" when ftl broke that code, because neo dies and is reborn.  Insomniac and me had some fight regarding neo's existance, I recall.  I got worried that my first remark made it look like I knew "neo" was a person, and that I had given mafia the hint that I was it.

it also frustrated the hell out of me that eHalcyon implied that conifers are deciduous trees in my PM.

[Lekkit]

"You are a beautiful flower, and like your growing town reads, are blossoming.  Continue to trust your instincts, and the good people of the town will follow."

So you recieved no info that you had been recharged?

[eHalcyon]

it also frustrated the hell out of me that eHalcyon implied that conifers are deciduous trees in my PM.

What.  I know the difference between coniferous and deciduous trees.  I won't confirm that the text you posted was what I sent you, but note that the text you posted mentions both as separate groups.  Do not besmirch mine arboreal honour.

[shraeye]

"You are a beautiful flower, and like your growing town reads, are blossoming.  Continue to trust your instincts, and the good people of the town will follow."

So you recieved no info that you had been recharged?

shraeye, what did the motivation you recieved from asher look like?

No, I knew I was charged up.  You just asked what the accompanying motivation looked like.  Why was this confusing?

[shraeye]

it also frustrated the hell out of me that eHalcyon implied that conifers are deciduous trees in my PM.

What.  I know the difference between coniferous and deciduous trees.  I won't confirm that the text you posted was what I sent you, but note that the text you posted mentions both as separate groups.  Do not besmirch mine arboreal honour.

Oooohhh.  I get it, you're saying two different things there.  that it's harder to judge if i consider all deciduous trees AND there are some crazy conifers out there (so we won't even talk about the category of all trees).

I thought you saying the existance of crazy conifers was explaining why it was hard to judge my ranking if we consider deciduous trees (which a conifer is not)

[Dsell]

If DSell is telling the truth, then we can control the fish from the only admitted scum.

How?

There was a missing kill last night. It looks as though the Mafia kill was doctored.

Or they targeted me and the kill didn't hit because I commuted

I forgot about this. This makes Shraeye look worse because its' definitely a possibility.

[Captain_Frisk]

If we

If DSell is telling the truth, then we can control the fish from the only admitted scum.

If we lynch Cayvie, you will get to hand out the fish... correct?

[Captain_Frisk]

quote fail - you can figure it out

[Dsell]

I need to read Dsell's claim closer.  It looks like he could take things from recently killed players.  He says that he can only use their power, but maybe he took a scoop from archetype and has been bashing with it?  It would be like the Robz thief role, except Robz steals from the living and Dsell steals from the dead.

I could only steal one time because I had a 1-shot of Robz' power. Archetype's power was tracker and his flavor was chocolate, the kills were done with a vanilla ice cream scoop.

Is there confirmation from anyone other than Dsell that joth was a doctor?  Was there even confirmation from Dsell?  I wasn't told anything about being protected last night, just that I had icecream stuffed in a knot of my trunk.  I'm considering if Eevee's doctor claim can be real, it felt not real to me, as I had a hunch that joth was doctor, but there was no confirmation there.  I'm wary about using DSell's word that joth was a doctor as the reason Eevee is lying.   Dsell did claim after Eevee, so may have written things to make eevee's claim look worse.  I'm still suspicious of how he tried to be the very last to claim.

Yes, jo was definitely doctor. The first time I saw his characteristic (when I "thieved" him with Robz' power), the wording was actually a little vague, but basically conveyed doctor. (It was extra confusing because I had the QT where Galz was posing as jo and lied, etc.) When jo died and I got a 1-shot of his power, it was perfectly clear that he was doctor. That's the power I currently have, though it will be overridden if we lynch someone.

I don't know if jo ever breadcrumbed this anywhere, but jo absolutely was the doctor.

It seems to me that Shraeye has stopped looking at things very critically and has started to go on the offensive against me. I think that's pretty scummy this late in the game.

[Dsell]

If we

If DSell is telling the truth, then we can control the fish from the only admitted scum.

If we lynch Cayvie, you will get to hand out the fish... correct?

Yes, presumably. But according to cayvie, it's the blue fish tonight. And there's no guarantee that she's telling the truth.

[ashersky]

I still come back to Eevee lying.

Shraeye posted my first message.  I was cryptic and didn't sign it.  He listed me as one of his biggest town reads on D1, so that was the clue within the message.  I could paste mine to Jorbles, where I referenced volcanos (ash, get it?).  But to Eevee, I actually signed my name.

vote: eevee

[shraeye]

It seems to me that Shraeye has stopped looking at things very critically and has started to go on the offensive against me. I think that's pretty scummy this late in the game.

This just sounds like an absurd redirection of suspicion.  It's *because* I'm looking at things critically that I wanted to make sure that jotheonah being doctor could be confirmed by more than one person, and I'm suspicious of you because I expect scum to slighly rewrite their powers (we have an example of this in an ongoing game), not do a complete overhaul.  You have the ability to take some things, and at some point possibly held Robz's theif power.  It seems nice from a symmetry point of view to have a town-thief that steals from the living, and a scum-theif who steals from the dead. 

I was trying to explain the existence of the ice cream scoop kills, something which you did by just saying "big mystery. i assume it's eevee since his claim has the least evidence."  I made a chronological mistake and on rereading my theory that you killed with the icecream scoop, I saw that if you didn't get Robz's power or joth's scoop until they died, then you couldn't have left the vanilla trail on night 1.  But it's still a ridiculous claim to say that I'm not even trying to look at things critically.

[Dsell]

Part of me thinks that Ashersky/Shraeye/Eevee mafia has been planning on having these "proofs" for why they're town set up for the whole game so that they can distance themselves from Eevee while confirming each other (Shraeye and Asher, I guess) as town. But that part of me struggles with the fact that Ashersky gave Jorbles an extra scoop, and it also struggles with the fact that both of their roles, as written, would be OP as scum.

It's totally possible that they are scum powers with restrictions that they're just not posting.

It's also totally possible that either Frisk or cayvie is mafia, though those don't seem super duper likely for various reasons. But Lekkit's claim seems provably true (though he could be trying to look townie in preparation for bringing a scumbuddy back), Ashersky's has evidence supporting it, while Shraeye and Eevee have less (Shraeye does still have the minute bonus of being doctored on the night the mafia kill failed).

I'd love to hear ftl's take on the situation since I consider him pretty for-sure town.

[Dsell]

It seems to me that Shraeye has stopped looking at things very critically and has started to go on the offensive against me. I think that's pretty scummy this late in the game.

This just sounds like an absurd redirection of suspicion.  It's *because* I'm looking at things critically that I wanted to make sure that jotheonah being doctor could be confirmed by more than one person, and I'm suspicious of you because I expect scum to slighly rewrite their powers (we have an example of this in an ongoing game), not do a complete overhaul.  You have the ability to take some things, and at some point possibly held Robz's theif power.  It seems nice from a symmetry point of view to have a town-thief that steals from the living, and a scum-theif who steals from the dead. 

I was trying to explain the existence of the ice cream scoop kills, something which you did by just saying "big mystery. i assume it's eevee since his claim has the least evidence."  I made a chronological mistake and on rereading my theory that you killed with the icecream scoop, I saw that if you didn't get Robz's power or joth's scoop until they died, then you couldn't have left the vanilla trail on night 1.  But it's still a ridiculous claim to say that I'm not even trying to look at things critically.

Well certainly you are being critical OF me, but that is different than looking at the whole situation critically. Maybe I'm being too harsh, but as you yourself admit, you were accusing me of being the killer when there was absolutely no evidence for that. My claim is completely consistent with the facts, and even if you want to be more sure of some part of it, which is understandable since it's so large, it's a big leap from wanting to verify the accuracy of my claim to blaming me for the kills.

[Dsell]

Hah! I was pretty sure Galz had possessed Dsell or sent him messages from the grave. I would actually be for a massclaim. It would weaken my role some, but ee really need to hit mafia this time.

Lekkit, in what way does claiming weaken your role?

[shraeye]

Hah! I was pretty sure Galz had possessed Dsell or sent him messages from the grave. I would actually be for a massclaim. It would weaken my role some, but ee really need to hit mafia this time.

Lekkit, in what way does claiming weaken your role?

Whoa, yes.  I'm very interested in this answer.

[Lekkit]

Do you mean beside the point that scum would be thrown off by the fact that I would "survive" a nightkill? After getting the clarification about the zombie votes I think it weakened my power even more to claim. As long as I'm nightkilled I get to cast an extra vote AS A MOD CONFIRMED TOWNIE.

[Lekkit]

And for the record, I thought the vote part meant that the vote would be added to the vote count but not add to the votes needed to lynch.

[Dsell]

Could you remind me of the exact timing of the 1-shot Alive? When do you give it to a person, when do they come back, when are they made aware that they're coming back?

[Lekkit]

I target a dead person at night. They are alive for the next day and night. I don't really know much more than that. I know that if I die, I will die as normal and then use the remaining shots to resurrect myself, if possible. I don't know what would happen if I hold a fish and was lynched, though.

[Galzria]

As usual, I'll have a post with thoughts up late tonight. Haven't had a chance to really go over things yet. Claims I'm chewing over:

Dsell
Frisk
Asher
Shrae
Eevee
Lekkit

Half of you, I believe, are lying. And I don't think your lies are mutually exclusive - that is, a scum team works together, and to present the strongest, most solid, convincing story, I expect your stories to intertwine to a degree.

I also expect that most of you are telling partial truths to muddle the facts. Take Lekkit. His claim is true afaik, because it matches what I know. But that doesn't mean it's completely true. I just don't know for sure.

I left off Cayvie and ftl. Ftl is hands down my strongest town read. He's the only person I'm willing to roll three dice on accepting is town with certainty. Cayvie OTOH I'm sure is scum. She could still be Mafia, and I'm considering how that would work. But it still leaves a likely set of three liars above, so that's where I'll be focused.

[Dsell]

Ok Galz, I know you'll get to this tonight, but why was I confirmed town before and why am I possible scum now? I realize why you would treat me as possible scum but what has changed that I am any more likely to be mafia?

I don't know how much more time I'll have to devote to this today but I want to do more rereads in light of all the claims.

[Galzria]

Ok Galz, I know you'll get to this tonight, but why was I confirmed town before and why am I possible scum now? I realize why you would treat me as possible scum but what has changed that I am any more likely to be mafia?

I don't know how much more time I'll have to devote to this today but I want to do more rereads in light of all the claims.

Hand in the cookie jar syndrome. I believe you're all (mostly) telling at least partial truths. This reduces the number of possible scenarios and explanations to the missing kills. You've had the most direct interactions with other players, and it's - possible - you're the explanation for the IC kills.

Ha. Ice Cream. IC. Innocent Child. Ice Cream is commonly used symbolism in movies of childhood innocence (well, shakes are). I wonder if that connection was intentional by eHal. The shattering of innocence. Huh.

*Ahem*

/end tangent.

[Galzria]

Compiling:

Dsell:

Flavour name: External Hard Drive
Role name: Universal Backup
Alignment: Town

Abilities:

You can never be too careful!  Everything must be backed up.  Well, most things.  There’s only so much disk space, after all, and you’re already full of Very Important Files.  Mostly lolcats and animated gifs.  But you do have a little bit of extra space for some other data!

You will (usually) gain a one-shot version of the power of the last person to die.  This generally means that you will have the night power of whoever was just lynched.  If multiple players die simultaneously for whatever reason, I will determine the order based on logic if possible, PM timestamps otherwise, and at random if need be.  You cannot save up these 1-shot abilities.  Usually this means that you will never have the chance to use the powers of players who are night killed, though there may be exceptions.

Night 1 I acquired Archetype's ability, which was Tracker. I tracked ftl but didn't get any result. (I at first assumed he didn't target anyone. Later in the day eHal sent a correction saying a scoop of strawberry ice cream was forced down my mouth in the night. Still later in the day, ftl posted about targeting Robz, indicating that the ice cream did in fact have the effect of roleblocking me.)

Day 2 I acquired Insomniac's shepherd ability. He had many, many choices of things to do, but there were only titles with a bit of flavor, no actual description. One ability was not available. It was "Surround Sound," so I'm sure Insomniac was responsible for "Surprise, Surprise" being played to all of us in the night. I don't know if any of these abilities had any effect beyond flavor and I never got to use any of them because those powers were overridden by the powers I received after the lynch...

Night 2 I acquired Robz' kelptomaniac power. I got to target a player to steal something related to their power. I chose Jotheonah and stole a vanilla ice cream scoop, which appeared to have the power to doctor someone. (Can't doctor during the day though.) However, at the same time, I received two more programs overriding each other. First I received Galzria's spirit medium power, which gave me access to the Spectator QT and would have let me post there, except that it was immediately overridden by Jorbles' power, the strawberry ice cream scoop and the power to roleblock. That was all during night 2 and the beginning of day 3.

Night 3 I got Watno's power to shoot paint at two people to watch them. I shot paint at Frisk and Ashersky (Asher was my biggest town read, nearly tied with jo, who I now believed to be town based on the doctoring ability...I mentioned on day 3 that I was very confused about jo because he appeared to be doctor but then was "obviously" lying in the Spec QT...once that was resolved and I wasn't confused anymore I figured he must be the doctor. I almost targeted jo and was so so so frustrated that I didn't because...), neither of them had paint traces. I thought mafia might try to take out Frisk because his role could be dangerous to them.

At the beginning of day 4 (now) I got jo's ability to doctor again after he died. However, this will be overridden if we lynch someone, and I'll get a 1-shot of their power.

I think that covers everything. If you have more specific questions, ask away. This leads me to draw conclusions about two players who've already claimed, but I suppose I'll hold out until we're totally done.

Lekkit:

And here's mine.

Flavour name: Insane Doctor
Role name: 3-Shot Necromancer
Alignment: Town

Abilities:

BWAHAHAHAHA!  They said you were crazy, but you’ve worked it out.  All you had to do was carry the one and replace Schrodinger’s Cat with Pavlov’s Dog.  Then, some magic and batteries (available at the local hardware store) was enough to bring the whole Rube Goldberg together.  Genius!  With your mad power, you are able to bring back the dead.

Each night, until you run out of shots, you may target one dead player.  Barring outside influence, the target will be revived in the morning and will survive until the end of that night (i.e. they will be able to use their night action, if they have one).  A zombie player may vote but its presence will not change the number of votes needed to lynch.  A zombie player cannot be voted upon.  Zombies retain their original alignment.  It will be announced that the zombie looks sickly and decomposed and will not likely survive for very long.

You will not gain access to the Dead Player QT when you die if you still have any shots remaining.  Instead, you will automatically consume all remaining shots and revive yourself.  Note that the Dead Player QT will be locked for the day while a zombie (other than you) is raised.

For game mechanic purposes, your ability adds “1-shot Alive” to the dead player’s role as a regular action, which that player automatically uses.

I've only used my power once, and that was on Galz.

Shraeye:

Flavour name: Ancient Oak Tree
Role name: 1-Shot Deathproof
Alignment: Town

Ability:

You were raised on sunlight and water.  Except the sunlight was really gamma radiation.  And the water was really the blood of those departed.

Whatever the case, you are pretty much the most anguished Oak tree around.  It’s a little harder to judge if you consider all deciduous trees, and certainly there are some really crazy conifers out there, but out of all the Oak trees you are definitely the most miserable.  Well, top three.  Definitely top three in your home forest.  Too bad death won't even take the pain away.

When you would be killed in any way, you lose one shot of your Deathproof instead.  Flavour will make note of when you become a Tree Stump (it will be a little more flavourful than that, of course).  When you have 0 Shots remaining, you become a Tree Stump, at which point you may truly be killed.  Even as a Stump you may still vote.


stuff thats useful:
i got ashersky's boost night 1
i got no update from eHalcyon on night 2
i got vanilla icecream (from Joth presumably) night 3

Eevee:

Don't know what to tell you ashersky, received nothing. Again, why would I lie? If there is somekind of an error, eHalc will surely fix it.. idk, obviously somekind of a mail stealer or redirector could be afoot, but.. I'm fairly confident the scum trio is ashersky, Lekkit and shraeye. Everything points there, I don't know why you'd lie about this.

Flavour name: Sew Me
Role name: Doctor
Alignment: Town

Abilities:

Though once an ordinary citizen, the loneliness that followed from your wife leaving you really opened your eyes to the wonderful world of sartorial workmanship. You became quite attached to your lovely 3-speed Sewing Machine. After all, you had no one else anymore. And then you literally became attached to it. You don’t remember if it was a secret government experiment gone wrong or if you had simply gotten overambitious with sewing patterns, but you are now part machine and part man. It's ok though, all of those man-parts were holding you back anyway. Man can give in to temptation, can give in to greed, can give in to anger. Your ex-wife gave into Pete the Postman. The only logical plan was to become a protector of those still locked inside their human forms. No wait! A protector of everything. Yes, that is your calling now.

You are the town doctor. Each night, you may send me the name of a fellow player. You will protect that player from death, and do it so quickly he won't even notice what was about to hit him. Unless you target Pete the Postman. If you do, you won't be able to control your anger and you'll first kill him and then commit suicide out of sheer guilt. So better avoid Pete the Postman.

Night 1 I targeted Joth
Night 2 I targeted shraeye
Night 3 I targeted Joth again (damnu Frisk)

i breadcrumbed this plethora of times day 1, often "mistyping" cut instead of but, and also talking about "sewing up cases" and stuff like that twice iirc. I can control f back to find it if you want, being the idiot I am I didn't take note of the posts.

Frisk:

So you're standing by this as your PM, in it's entirety?:

Flavour name: Lazy Jack of All Trades
Role name: 2-Shot Strongman Vig
Alignment: Town

Abilities:

You are truly a jack of all trades - and a master of none. Unfortunately, you spent all of your free time working out instead of practicing with weapons, learning how to track people, investigate them etc. On the plus side, you're pretty strong.

If you have any shots remaining, you may choose to kill someone at night. This kill is unblockable (breaks through doctor protection, bulletproof, etc.).

Ashersky:

Flavour name: Motivational Speaker Bot
Role name: Recharger/Mailman
Alignment: Town

Abilities:

Everyone is wonderful and they all deserve to know it.  That’s what your programming says, at least.  Your sole purpose in this world is to record motivational speeches for those less upbeat than you.  Not everyone can run at 15 GHz, but you can certainly try to get them there!

Each night, you may target one other player, living or dead.  You may send a short private message (we’ll say 255 characters but I may be flexible) to that player via the moderator (that is, send it to me and I will pass it along).  The moderator reserves the right to redact parts of the message.  Your identity will not be revealed by the mod, though you may include it in the message if you wish.  In fact, you may put anything in your message so long as it stays within the character limit.  Or you could send nothing at all, if you wish to remain silent (but that wouldn’t be very motivational, now would it?).

If that player has an X-shot ability, they will be so moved by your message (or magnificent silence) that they gain an additional shot.  This only works on actual abilities -- it will not charge up gadgets/buttons/whatever.  They don’t need gadgets to be awesome!

Shraeye N1, Jorbles N2 (hence extra scoop), Eevee N3.  The first two I did not include my name.  To Eevee, I did.  Hence, he knew I was the mailman, because I mailed him.  I mailed Eevee, with my name in it, as the mailman he can't target.  He knew I was the mailman.  Why lie?

Vote: Eevee times a million.

ftl:

Here's my belief then on the use of ftl's cop role: Animals are scum. Ta-Da!

Unlikely. I'm human, therefore animal, and I'm town.

No, but seriously, ftl, having you full claim at this point would be rather nice

Fine I'll claim

Flavour name: Major-General Stanley
Role name: Flavour Cop
Alignment: Town

Abilities:

You are the very model of a modern Major-General.  You’ve information vegetable, animal and mineral.  Or, you will have it soon!  With your extensive knowledge and formidable acumen, it’s only a matter of time before you have it all figured out.

Each night, you may target one other player.  You will intensely study that player and, in so doing, learn whether they are Vegetable, Animal or Mineral.  Some may be particularly difficult to classify, but with your exceptional educational background you will certainly be able to determine the closest category.  Depending on what you find, you will also learn a Military Lesson (one-shot ability) that you may use on subsequent nights INSTEAD of your regular flavour-cop power (Lessons may be saved for future use).

Vegetable: You learn about Military Sorties and may Commute that night (you cannot be targeted by anyone).
Animal: You learn Military Tactics, emboldening you to become a Vigilante (night kill a target).
Mineral: You learn some Military History, enabling you as a Role Cop (learn a target’s role name).

N1 Robz, N2 Lekkit, N3 commute, still have a 1-shot vig left

Cayvie:

wanna see the hardest role to win with ever?

Flavour name: Red Herring
Role name: Inventor
Alignment: Serial Killer

Abilities:

Whenever a crime is committed, the authorities always seem to come to you.  It has never been your fault, yet you are always the first suspect.  The most recent case was the last straw.  Why in the world would you steal a temperament strip?  You don’t even know the first thing about pianos!  No, you’ve suffered enough from all those fools.  This time you’ll be the one doing the dastardly deeds, and if you have your way you will be the last fish that anyone suspects.

You are an investigation-immune Serial Killer.  And you’re backed up by a huge school of your fiendish fishy friends.

Each night, you may target one player to receive a one-shot Fish.  They receive the Fish in the morning.  They will be told that they can use the Fish in addition to their regular night action, but they will not be told what the fish does.  If a player does not (attempt to) use their Fish on the night that they have it (i.e. the night after you target them), they die.

You will give out Red Fishes on odd nights and Blue Fishes on even nights.

Red Fish: 1-shot night kill (they may self-target).

Blue Fish: 1-shot Cop, sort of.  Targets two players (they may self-target).  If the players are...

You+Townie: fish tells user it is unlikely that either of you are scum.
You+Scum or 2 Townies: fish user dies.
2 Scum or Townie+Scum (not you): fish tells user that there is a chance that it is feasibly possible that at least one of the two players is perhaps scum maybe.

It’s mostly a delayed night kill either way.

Death flavour will indeed be fish-related.

You win when everyone else is dead, or nothing can prevent that from happening.

----

[Galzria]

Lekkit, with 3 shots available, why did you wait until N3 to use your power for the first time?

N1 you could've brought Archetype back.

N2 you could've brought Insomniac, Robz or Archetype back.

N3 you could bring Insomniac, Robz, Archetype, Watno or myself.

Why me, and why N3 for the first time?

[Lekkit]

As Ive said, I didnt think the votes of the zombies would count, so I thought I brought back peiple for their powers. Having experience as scum in a RMM game I knew scum would want to map out all powers. Bringing Archetype back for day 2 would do two things. Out the zombie power and bring back what I thought was a not stellar role, as he self-hammered. Night 2 I had the option to revive Ins and Robz as well. The role block from Robz could be good, but it was a gamble. And flavour theft would pribably not help town or hurt scum. I had no idea what Ins could do either, but I assumed he was some sort of tracker, due to his dog like name. German shepherd was what I thought of. And a tracker wouldnt be able to tell us his results. So I thought we would benefit more from me coming back as the first zombie than any of those.

Night 3 I had to do something to do something as we were basically being killed off one by one without really getting closer to catching scum. I wasnt sure if I should bring you or Jorbles, but I thought you had kept a closer eye ton the game and that your piwer was to suicide during the night and thwrefore be able to continue your possessung of living people. As it turned out this wasnt really what your powrr did, but I think we benefits a bit more of you today than we would benefit from Jorbles.

[Dsell]

Well, Lekkit seems fairly town. Unless there is some weird restriction we don't know about or unless Lekkit just did it so he'd have something to show for when massclaim rolled around...he seems very townie. Resurrecting Galz was a very pro-town thing to do, and I just don't see it coming from a mafioso.

I feel very strongly that we can figure this puzzle out if we just ask the right questions and draw out the right information. So I'd encourage all the townies to keep looking hard for inconsistencies, ask for clarifictions, and reread as much as possible in order to piece together who the scum is. I really think we can do this. I really think the information is all out there, but I am not sure we have everything we need at this point in time.

[Lekkit]

Wouldn't it be pretty convenient if Dsell got a back up of everyone's flavour at the start of the game? I mean, not all of it, but some. Or possibly the role name or something like that... Then it would be pretty easy for mafia to make their claims seem really good. However, I am pretty suspicious of Eevee's claim, especially if jo was in fact a doctor.

Dsell, you sound just like the side-kicks in the Ace Attorney series.

[Galzria]

Staaaall

You can all ask questions without me ya know. Seeing who asks what questions could be informative, and only half of you are scum!

Good news: I'll be home, at my PC tonight (instead of traveling and in a hotel room), so I'll be able to really dig in. Until then, get active!

[shraeye]

As Ive said, I didnt think the votes of the zombies would count, so I thought I brought back peiple for their powers. Having experience as scum in a RMM game I knew scum would want to map out all powers. Bringing Archetype back for day 2 would do two things. Out the zombie power and bring back what I thought was a not stellar role, as he self-hammered. Night 2 I had the option to revive Ins and Robz as well. The role block from Robz could be good, but it was a gamble. And flavour theft would pribably not help town or hurt scum. I had no idea what Ins could do either, but I assumed he was some sort of tracker, due to his dog like name. German shepherd was what I thought of. And a tracker wouldnt be able to tell us his results. So I thought we would benefit more from me coming back as the first zombie than any of those.

Night 3 I had to do something to do something as we were basically being killed off one by one without really getting closer to catching scum. I wasnt sure if I should bring you or Jorbles, but I thought you had kept a closer eye ton the game and that your piwer was to suicide during the night and thwrefore be able to continue your possessung of living people. As it turned out this wasnt really what your powrr did, but I think we benefits a bit more of you today than we would benefit from Jorbles.

Why did you think Galz was able to possess living people?  That's something that doesn't add up.  You seem to focus on explaining why you waited until night 3, but why Galzria?  He certainly has been useful in helping us clear things up, and will be invaluable in organizing a logical plan for the lynch and directing vigs, etc.  But I think that from a power perspective Jorbles' roleblocking would be a pretty scary thing for mafia.  So why did you bring back an unknown power over a claimed JK?

I'm going to have some time to focus more closely on all these claims tonight.

[Dsell]

Ok, here's what I must believe right now:

Eevee and Frisk are scum.

Neither of their Role PMs have a double space after the period. Every other Role PM we've seen has it (Galz, can you confirm on yours?) but theirs are single-spaced.

In Frisk's PM, "none" is italicized. If he copied and pasted, there should be no italics, and if he quoted, Alignment, Role, and Flavor name should all be in bold. The flavor seems short and not as flourishing as eHal's other PMs. (I am forced to concede that Ozle was right on this one )

Eevee claims to be just plain ol' doctor, which was Jo's role. It seems highly unlikely that there would be two standard doctors. Furthermore, the flavor name "Sew Me" doesn't seem to fit the standard. I may make a list of all names we've seen so far to demonstrate this better. I pointed out before that one of the phrases about "won't even see what's coming" doesn't seem to fit the doctor role in any way.

Cayvie has admitted to being scum, so I'll trust her.

Frisk being scum is really really weird with the night one glove and ice-cream scoop deaths. I can't explain it, just like I can't explain the ninja ice cream scooper. We already mislynched twice on the ninja ice cream thing so, while we might get an explanation at some point, some things might just not be explainable with our current knowledge.

I believe that Shraeye and Ashersky cannot be telling the truth and both be mafia. That would be OP. We know Ashersky also targeted Jorbles, a confirmed townie. So his power is confirmed. (There could possibly be more to it, but that part at least is confirmed.)

I believe Eevee when he says that targeting the mailman player will cause him to murder-suicide. That is a harsh penalty for either a town or a scum role, but especially a scum one. But because of the nature of that ability and the fact that Eevee brought it up in-thread, I do not believe that they can both be mafia. Because of this and the fact that Ashersky's power is confirmed, I believe Ashersky is town.

Since it seems that there ought to be one more mafia, and since Shraeye's ability cannot be confirmed in the same way as the others, I believe that Shraeye is the final mafia. Now, if he is telling the truth about his role, that is very, very unfortunate for us. He would have 2-shot deathproof, meaning it will take 3 kills to take him out, which is going to be difficult this late in the game and with so few townies left. If he's not telling the truth, it's totally up in the air.

Because of all this, I believe that the town consists of Myself, Lekkit, Galz, Ashersky, and ftl. Mafia consists of Eevee, Shraeye, and probably Captain_Frisk (possibly cayvie), with cayvie or maybe Frisk being the serial killer. Note that this post assumes a 3-person mafia + SK. Although it's possible we're looking at 4 mafia and no SK.

[Lekkit]

Why did you think Galz was able to possess living people?  That's something that doesn't add up.  You seem to focus on explaining why you waited until night 3, but why Galzria?  He certainly has been useful in helping us clear things up, and will be invaluable in organizing a logical plan for the lynch and directing vigs, etc.  But I think that from a power perspective Jorbles' roleblocking would be a pretty scary thing for mafia.  So why did you bring back an unknown power over a claimed JK?

I'm going to have some time to focus more closely on all these claims tonight.

The reason I thought Galz could possess people was that I knew of the Dead Player QT and after the spirit medium died Dsell seemed to know stuff about Galz suicide and jo "lying". To me, things added up if Galz was in the QT ztalking to the dead people and tellng Dsell some way.

Jorbles power seemed better, and he would also be able to clear out the whole jo/Dsell thing. However, I expected Galz to have followed the game closer and could help us figure out who is scum. Because lets be honest, we were, and Im still, pretty lost. I think scum boils down to cayvie, Eevee, Shraeye and CF or ftl.

[Dsell]

Why did you think Galz was able to possess living people?  That's something that doesn't add up.  You seem to focus on explaining why you waited until night 3, but why Galzria?  He certainly has been useful in helping us clear things up, and will be invaluable in organizing a logical plan for the lynch and directing vigs, etc.  But I think that from a power perspective Jorbles' roleblocking would be a pretty scary thing for mafia.  So why did you bring back an unknown power over a claimed JK?

I'm going to have some time to focus more closely on all these claims tonight.

The reason I thought Galz could possess people was that I knew of the Dead Player QT and after the spirit medium died Dsell seemed to know stuff about Galz suicide and jo "lying". To me, things added up if Galz was in the QT ztalking to the dead people and tellng Dsell some way.

Jorbles power seemed better, and he would also be able to clear out the whole jo/Dsell thing. However, I expected Galz to have followed the game closer and could help us figure out who is scum. Because lets be honest, we were, and Im still, pretty lost. I think scum boils down to cayvie, Eevee, Shraeye and CF or ftl.

It's gotta be CF! That PM just cannot be real, it doesn't fit in at all. And it kinda sucks for Frisk because he has to stand by it and he made it when it wasn't clear that the PMs were pretty uniform. But he has most certainly altered that PM.

What are your thoughts on my post? It looks like you at least agree with the final results.

[Captain_Frisk]

I think you should look hard at cayvie.

[Dsell]

I think you should look hard at cayvie.

Because she might be town and lying to us?


I think she's scum, and since she doesn't seem to have a direct night kill (and since she has little incentive to help the town at this point in the game) I just think she should be treated as any other scum.

[Galzria]

Alright, along with ftl, I'm going to rule out Ashersky as today's lynch (and probably rule him out as a target tonight as well), and here's why:

Flavour name: Spiritual Medium
Role name: Modposter/Neighbour
Alignment: Town

Abilities:

As you are well aware, there is more to this world than what you can see and touch.  Since you were a young child you’ve been tuned into The Other Side (except for a few hours each week when you are tuned into HBO, which you don’t even have to pay for since you can watch it all in your head!).  You can hear spirits whispering all around you.  Whether they are helpful is a different matter.  Usually they’re just creepy in a “we see everything you do” kind of way.

As the Spiritual Medium, you have access to the Spectator QT, where you may communicate with all spectators during the day and night:

Wouldn't your like to know?

Because spectators may be called upon to act as replacements, and because you might not be the only one with access to the thread, you are advised to use a pseudonym when posting in the QT.  Or perhaps you’d rather not post at all, if you’re more of a listener -- it’s up to you.

You will not get access to the Dead Player QT when you die.  Instead, you gain a new power: each night you may “possess” the moderator, having him publicly post a short message (we’ll say 255 characters, but I may be flexible) from you to the rest of the town.  It will be made clear that the message comes from you and contains no mod-confirmed content.  The moderator reserves the right to redact parts of the message, including but not limited to off-site links. 

If you and your spectating spirits figure something out, you have the means to let the town know.  Of course, not all spirits are benevolent, so take care which ones you heed!

My PM - Which also puts me at a 255 character cap on my messages to town (obviously I got away with going WAY overboard (I read it as 255 words at first, and I exceeded even THAT), but only because I wrote such a nice poem!). Ashersky could still be scum with that PM, but at least I know the PM is, for the most part, true.

[Galzria]

You'll note, of course, the double spaces after punctuation as well.

[Lekkit]

Galz why did you edit out the double spaces last time you quoted your PM?

[Lekkit]

Just curious. Could it be some auto correct thing?

[Galzria]

I believe I posted it like this:

Flavour name: Spiritual Medium
Role name: Modposter/Neighbour
Alignment: Town

Abilities:

As you are well aware, there is more to this world than what you can see and touch.  Since you were a young child you’ve been tuned into The Other Side (except for a few hours each week when you are tuned into HBO, which you don’t even have to pay for since you can watch it all in your head!).  You can hear spirits whispering all around you.  Whether they are helpful is a different matter.  Usually they’re just creepy in a “we see everything you do” kind of way.

Which is just a copy/paste - although it appears to have the double spaces. If you can find the relevant quote that has them not in I might be able to tell you more... but I never edited them out (I did the Copy/Paste from my mobile last time though, so maybe that's it...?)

[Lekkit]

And I still stand by my claim that the flavor Frisk qouted was not written by eHal.

The only reason you think that is because the three main item lines weren't in bold, nor was "Abilities". Which if hejust copy+pasted from the PM itself instead of quoting is how it would read. See:

Flavour name: Spiritual Medium
Role name: Modposter/Neighbour
Alignment: Town

Abilities:

As you are well aware, there is more to this world than what you can see and touch. Since you were a young child you’ve been tuned into The Other Side (except for a few hours each week when you are tuned into HBO, which you don’t even have to pay for since you can watch it all in your head!). You can hear spirits whispering all around you. Whether they are helpful is a different matter. Usually they’re just creepy in a “we see everything you do” kind of way.

For an example.

Now, I do think he chopped his PM, but I don't know that he alerted it.

[Galzria]

Got it:

And I still stand by my claim that the flavor Frisk qouted was not written by eHal.

The only reason you think that is because the three main item lines weren't in bold, nor was "Abilities". Which if hejust copy+pasted from the PM itself instead of quoting is how it would read. See:

Flavour name: Spiritual Medium
Role name: Modposter/Neighbour
Alignment: Town

Abilities:

As you are well aware, there is more to this world than what you can see and touch. Since you were a young child you’ve been tuned into The Other Side (except for a few hours each week when you are tuned into HBO, which you don’t even have to pay for since you can watch it all in your head!). You can hear spirits whispering all around you. Whether they are helpful is a different matter. Usually they’re just creepy in a “we see everything you do” kind of way.

For an example.

Now, I do think he chopped his PM, but I don't know that he alerted it.

Weird. No editing. Lemme try from my mobile...

[Lekkit]

Which is why I said I miight be wrong about it. You are conf town, but didnt have the double spaces.

[Galzria]

Mobile post:

Flavour name: Spiritual Medium Role name: Modposter/Neighbour Alignment: Town

Abilities:

As you are well aware, there is more to this world than what you can see and touch. Since you were a young child you’ve been tuned into The Other Side (except for a few hours each week when you are tuned into HBO, which you don’t even have to pay for since you can watch it all in your head!). You can hear spirits whispering all around you. Whether they are helpful is a different matter. Usually they’re just creepy in a “we see everything you do” kind of way.

Copy/Pasted

[Galzria]

Yeah, my mobile re-formats it on a copy/paste.

[Lekkit]

Whichs unfortunately nullifies the double spaces theory. Pity I spoiled it before everyone claimed.

[Lekkit]

However CF's PM still contains italics... Galz, can you quote your post with double spaces from your phine?

[Lekkit]

And btw, this feels like it's going against the general spirit of the game...

[Dsell]

And btw, this feels like it's going against the general spirit of the game...

I kinda agree. Fortunately, there's more than just that making them scummy (well...sort of with Frisk. But that PM CANNOT be real). Also, if I were writing a fake PM, I would put a looot of attention into making it sound good and extremely consistent.

[Galzria]

And btw, this feels like it's going against the general spirit of the game...

I think the spaces discussion is. I was merely curious.

However, I the italicized word means he DID do some editing:

Flavour name: Spiritual Medium Role name: Modposter/Neighbour Alignment: Town

Abilities:

As you are well aware, there is more to this world than what you can see and touch. Since you were a young child you’ve been tuned into The Other Side (except for a few hours each week when you are tuned into HBO, which you don’t even have to pay for since you can watch it all in your head!). You can hear spirits whispering all around you. Whether they are helpful is a different matter. Usually they’re just creepy in a “we see everything you do” kind of way.

I resent it to myself with the first sentence italicized, then copy pasted from my mobile here. The italicized words are dropped.

[Dsell]

I feel like my case was pretty compelling so I'm surprised there haven't been more responses!

The person who I've expected to come at me hardest, Shraeye, hasn't responded at all, which is surprising.

[shraeye]

Here's my take on the situation so far. 
I can verify asher's power as it was used on me, and was the reason that joth messed up the scoops from before.  Ashersky posted that he knew the explanation, and I also posted that I knew the explanation; at that point it became clear to me that asher was some sort of charge-up role, and instantly became an obvtown read.  This is not a power that scum would be given as I've explained before.  Clearly the only thing Ashersky would have done is charge up his scumbuddies instead of town.  Frisk pointed out that asher could have a restriction that he can only use it on town or something like that.  I'm not buying that though, because then the rational scumplay would have been to have him charge up the person his team was planning on NKing.  So I'm 100% sure ashersky is town.

Ftl I think is very likely town as well.  He is a flavour-cop which is a common town role.  I don't know the background of Major General Stanley, but Galz is certain that this is a character who would be town-aligned.  I think his choices for investigations were reasonable, I recall that Lekkit had subbed for Voltaire and had a low post-count so it was good to find something about him a different way.  Using the commute night 3 also made sense, because Galzria was very certain ftl was town, and mafia does commonly try to take out obvtown targets.

I'm certain that cayvie is scum as well, but I'm not completely certain she's the SK.  I mostly assume she is, but it may be possible that Frisk actually is SK(regardless, I'm pretty certain both are scum).  My thoughts are this.  When we get close to the endgame, it's important for mafia to have numbers, because then even if we know they're scum we can't do anything about it.  By claiming SK, she guarantees that we know she's scum, but we may keep her alive because we want the nightkill.  Nightkills coming in the form of fish that she actually can't control or direct is not exactly what I think of when I think of SK, I think much more of a power like Frisk's.  By cayvie claiming SK, maybe she's trying to get us to focus on obvscum Frisk as mafia instead of SK, thereby having town do the SK-hunting for her.  That's just a crazy conspiracy theory, and despite it, I'm still 80% sure cayvie is SK.  Does the theory make sense to anyone else, or am I just spinning my wheels? 
PPE:Whoa, while looking through eevee's posts, I found one of his buried between this exchange by Frisk/eevee about cayvie; it makes me put more stock in this conspiracy theory.

Yep.  I think Cayvie might be lying though.

Why?

Something about a serial killer who hands out fishes that can be used to kill her doesn't add up.

But with his PM Frisk is sticking to his town-vig story.  His role PM does look much different than the others, and I think is clearly edited.  It's clear that he has the ability to nightkill, and there's no reason a town-vig would edit his PM.  Galzria pointed out that Lekkit's single/double space theory could be explained (and as I recall, Frisk does a lot of phone-posting).  But I can't think of any explanation for the italicized word in his PM.  He's been scummy in my eyes since the first night watno tracked him.  What really bothers me is that if Frisk is Mafia, I can't figure out what is happening with the nightkills.  Who is doing the ice-cream killing? (this again makes me wonder if cayvie's not fake-claiming SK as mafia)

Another person I'm almost sure is scum is Lekkit.  I really dislike how he pushed his ability to read people's role-claims and tell if they were edited or not.  Automatically, I think at least two people (watno/ftl) were like, "oh can you prove my power is real?"  It seemed like the perfect ploy for scum, put yourself in the position to "verify" people's powers so that people reveal powers.  He has since explained that it was the double/single space issue, which galzria's claim has shown can be explained by phoneposting.  Also, I really don't like how he's been explaining his choice of use of zombie-powers.  Galz asked him why he waited for night3 to use them, and why Galz.  Lekkit explains why he waited until night 3, but doesn't explain well why he picks Galz.  His explanation in the first post on the matter (#2125) was that he thought Galz was keeping an eye on the game, and that he could possess living players.  I wanted to know why he thought Galz could possess living players, and why he thought this power could give more use to town than a claimed JK.  Lekkit explains how he figured that Galz was talking to Dsell somehow, but then he literally says that Jorbles' power was stronger but that he picked Galz only because Galz could sort things out.  This seems in contrast to post #2125 where he says that he thought his power was "I brought back peiple for their powers."
I don't know how Lekkit thought that Galz's power was "was to suicide during the night and thwrefore be able to continue your possessung of living people."  Especially because Galz himself had said before (posts1049 and 1220) that he had no night action, and no real power while he was alive.  This seems like a perfect player to for Lekkit to resurrect.  He rezzes Galz to get towncred, and to confirm his power (it might have come to claims today even if Galz wasn't here to direct it), but doesn't risk bringing back any nightactions that can mess with his scumplans.
Another thing that just jumped out to me while rereading some of his stuff.

As Ive said, I didnt think the votes of the zombies would count, so I thought I brought back peiple for their powers. Having experience as scum in a RMM game I knew scum would want to map out all powers. Bringing Archetype back for day 2 would do two things. Out the zombie power and bring back what I thought was a not stellar role, as he self-hammered. Night 2 I had the option to revive Ins and Robz as well. The role block from Robz could be good, but it was a gamble. And flavour theft would pribably not help town or hurt scum. I had no idea what Ins could do either, but I assumed he was some sort of tracker, due to his dog like name. German shepherd was what I thought of. And a tracker wouldnt be able to tell us his results. So I thought we would benefit more from me coming back as the first zombie than any of those.

But in Lekkit's claimed power is says taht when he dies taht he consume *all* remaining shots and come back.  So how would it ever have been more beneficial for town to have the first instance of a zombie be Lekkit using up all 3 Alive shots, instead of using them on other people?

This leaves Dsell and Eevee.  It's clear that one of them is lying.  Dsell had his moment where he crazy redirected suspicion at me for saying that Dsell could have been the vanilla ice-cream kills.  In that post he talked about his certainty that joth was doctor

Yes, jo was definitely doctor. The first time I saw his characteristic (when I "thieved" him with Robz' power), the wording was actually a little vague, but basically conveyed doctor. (It was extra confusing because I had the QT where Galz was posing as jo and lied, etc.) When jo died and I got a 1-shot of his power, it was perfectly clear that he was doctor. That's the power I currently have, though it will be overridden if we lynch someone.

Why has Dsell not yet posted the wording he received when he got 1-shot of joth's power when jo died, or when he thieved joth's characteristic?  Why would the wording have been a little vague the first time around, and then perfectly clear the second time he held joth's power?  My problem here is that Dsell is claiming that Eevee absolutely can't be a doctor because he *knows* that joth was, and that's not information that I'm certain of.  Unlike Frisk, there isn't any obvious problem with Eevee's role PM that I can see; I don't really buy that the role name "Sew Me" is obviously made up, though it does look different than others.  I don't like how Dsell changed the phrase "do it so quickly he won't even notice what was about to hit him" from Eevee's PM to "won't even see what's coming" in his recent post where he concludes Eevee is scum.  Dsell's change to that line does make it sound really scummy, but when I read Eevee's PM it just sounds eHalc is saying that if a player is doctored, they won't be told that Eevee was there or that a kill was directed at them.  This may be consistent with the fact that I didn't receive any night 2 update at all when Eevee targeted me; but, of course, every other night i've been targeted by somethign. 
Question: Has anybody else not received a night update on any night yet?
Going by game-long behavior, I think it's more likely that Eevee is lying and is scum.  He really seemed like the ringleader in the first few days, and suspiciously the first few days went horribly for us, this is also the game, he never really hit the top of my scum radar, but he's not really given me strong town vibes ever.  Dsell was one of my stronger town reads at the start of day 4, but it seems like he's done a lot to reduce this.  I really didn't like that he was first pushing for lot of people but not himself to claim, and then when we did massclaim he was asking to be the last to claim, and that he was really pushing that conf-town Galz was *completely sure* that Dsell was town, even though Galzria had expressed some doubt in his townread on Dsell.

To try to sort this out I went back and looked at all our lynches thus far.
Archetype: Eevee, Dsell, ftl, cayvie, Galzria, Lekkit, shraeye, Archetype
Robz: ashersky, Dsell, Eevee, jotheonah, Jorbles, Galzria, Captain_Frisk
watno: ftl, Captain_Frisk, Eevee, cayvie, Lekkit, Dsell
Dsell and eevee are the two players who have been on *all* of the mislynches so far.  They're both early to the lynch on Robz and Archetype (as I recall Eevee was the main driver for Archetype).  Eevee is earlier than Dsell on watno's.  In general, I tend to find earlier seats on a mislynch to be more suspicious than people who eventually are convinced by others.  This is really frustrating, I feel like the clues to which of Dsell or Eevee is lying should be easier to find.  But in the end, I think Eevee is more likely to be scum here, mostly for his ringleader position in the earlier days. 

Even crazier conspiracy theory: Could it be possible that Dsell AND Eevee are scum?  That they have purposefully given claims that the other contradicts, so that we give towncred to whichever of them lives to tomorrow?  If this is the case, then I need to reevaluate which of Frisk/Lekkit is scum (I'm pretty sure there can't be 5 scum, even with one of them an SK, that just seems like it's too stacked against town.  do we know number of scum from anywhere, or are we all just guessing 4 scum?)  I don't think Lekkit is thinking from a town perspective.  His only real towncred right now is that he brought back Galz, right?  Galz has been really useful, but I wonder if at this point in the game we would have come to a claim scenario without Galz?  If so, then Lekkit would have a crazy power, with no proof to back it up.  So instead he rezzes Galz to prove his power is true (but not Jorbles, who could actually JK people) where Galz is a player who specifically said that he becomes more powerful when dead and that he is a player who has no directable night actions.  That's a totally safe player to bring back from a scum-perspective if he was forced to choose somebody, I think.  That's really damning in my opinion.  What we have on Frisk is that his PM is edited.  I'm really certain that the PM is edited, and I have no idea why a town-aligned Vig would ever do that.  Also damning.

In the end, my best guess to how things are is that cayvie, frisk, lekkit, eevee are scum.  I'm not sure which of cayvie/frisk is SK, but i'm leaning towards cayvie.  Asher I know is town, and ftl I strongly believe is town.  Dsell i weakly believe is town by PoE. 

[Dsell]

To be fair, I was actually very early on the Watno lynch, I just unvoted and then hammered for some reason that I don't recall right now.

And Archetype was going totally crazy...I realize it was a mislynch but he went so so crazy that I think just about anyone would have voted for him after that.

I didn't mean to change the meaning of the phrase from Eevee's PM. I had quoted it somewhere earlier so I didn't feel like going back to get it word-for-word, so I paraphrased. I could have done better. The original stuck out to me as scummy, though, or if not scummy it at least didn't seem to fit right.

eHal's wording about jo's power, when I used Robz' power to investigate him and then again after he died:

You sneak along after jotheonah, eager to see what items might be up for grabs. You are not disappointed -- a quick pass by jo and you find yourself in possession of a scoop of vanilla ice cream. You can tell that it is of excellent quality. You are certain that if you feed this to somebody, no harm would befall them that night.

Your new program is vt.exe.  Running the program will feed a scoop of vanilla ice cream to one other player of your choice to protect them from one kill that night.

So maybe it seems obvious in hindsight but it wasn't explicitly clear to me that jo was the doctor based on the first message, and especially since that contradicted the fact that he appeared to be lying the Spec QT. When I got the second one, I of course knew he had to be doctor.

[Lekkit]

Here's my take on the situation so far. 
I can verify asher's power as it was used on me, and was the reason that joth messed up the scoops from before.  Ashersky posted that he knew the explanation, and I also posted that I knew the explanation; at that point it became clear to me that asher was some sort of charge-up role, and instantly became an obvtown read.  This is not a power that scum would be given as I've explained before.  Clearly the only thing Ashersky would have done is charge up his scumbuddies instead of town.  Frisk pointed out that asher could have a restriction that he can only use it on town or something like that.  I'm not buying that though, because then the rational scumplay would have been to have him charge up the person his team was planning on NKing.  So I'm 100% sure ashersky is town.

100% is a lot. Even though I've felt like I was 100% sure about something this game, I've been proven wrong. Take Watno for example. Either he had to be lying or there was a flavour stealing ninja or CF can plant Vanilla Ice Cream Cones on people AND strangle them. The two latter seemed soo far fethced that they couldn't be true. But Watno was town, remember? I can think of a couple of reasons as to why scum would be given a recharger. First of all, to be given town cred. Recharge the vig, that must be a townie, much like you are saying. BUT! This assumes that the recharging is the only part of the power. As long as you don't hit an X-shot role, you've just sent them a message. HOWEVER! This all depends on the fact that scum wouldn't have any X-shots themselves. The only way to know for sure that recharging would be 100% impossible for scum to have is if you're scum yourself and know that there are X-shots within the scum team.

Ftl I think is very likely town as well.  He is a flavour-cop which is a common town role.  I don't know the background of Major General Stanley, but Galz is certain that this is a character who would be town-aligned.  I think his choices for investigations were reasonable, I recall that Lekkit had subbed for Voltaire and had a low post-count so it was good to find something about him a different way.  Using the commute night 3 also made sense, because Galzria was very certain ftl was town, and mafia does commonly try to take out obvtown targets.

But Galz was dead, and had been for a day. Even though his reads ought to matter, there had been a whole day in between. I can't say for sure that I remember him saying that ftl was towny to him before he died. I could be wrong, but this was back at day 2 where I was on vacation. So no, I don't think it makes a ton of sense that he would commute. I'm not saying it doesn't, but I don't really think your reason for him doing so is true. Especially since there were some suspicion against him last day.

Another person I'm almost sure is scum is Lekkit.  I really dislike how he pushed his ability to read people's role-claims and tell if they were edited or not.  Automatically, I think at least two people (watno/ftl) were like, "oh can you prove my power is real?"  It seemed like the perfect ploy for scum, put yourself in the position to "verify" people's powers so that people reveal powers.  He has since explained that it was the double/single space issue, which galzria's claim has shown can be explained by phoneposting.  Also, I really don't like how he's been explaining his choice of use of zombie-powers.  Galz asked him why he waited for night3 to use them, and why Galz.  Lekkit explains why he waited until night 3, but doesn't explain well why he picks Galz.  His explanation in the first post on the matter (#2125) was that he thought Galz was keeping an eye on the game, and that he could possess living players.  I wanted to know why he thought Galz could possess living players, and why he thought this power could give more use to town than a claimed JK.  Lekkit explains how he figured that Galz was talking to Dsell somehow, but then he literally says that Jorbles' power was stronger but that he picked Galz only because Galz could sort things out.  This seems in contrast to post #2125 where he says that he thought his power was "I brought back peiple for their powers."
I don't know how Lekkit thought that Galz's power was "was to suicide during the night and thwrefore be able to continue your possessung of living people."  Especially because Galz himself had said before (posts1049 and 1220) that he had no night action, and no real power while he was alive.  This seems like a perfect player to for Lekkit to resurrect.  He rezzes Galz to get towncred, and to confirm his power (it might have come to claims today even if Galz wasn't here to direct it), but doesn't risk bringing back any nightactions that can mess with his scumplans.
Another thing that just jumped out to me while rereading some of his stuff.

As Ive said, I didnt think the votes of the zombies would count, so I thought I brought back peiple for their powers. Having experience as scum in a RMM game I knew scum would want to map out all powers. Bringing Archetype back for day 2 would do two things. Out the zombie power and bring back what I thought was a not stellar role, as he self-hammered. Night 2 I had the option to revive Ins and Robz as well. The role block from Robz could be good, but it was a gamble. And flavour theft would pribably not help town or hurt scum. I had no idea what Ins could do either, but I assumed he was some sort of tracker, due to his dog like name. German shepherd was what I thought of. And a tracker wouldnt be able to tell us his results. So I thought we would benefit more from me coming back as the first zombie than any of those.

But in Lekkit's claimed power is says taht when he dies taht he consume *all* remaining shots and come back.  So how would it ever have been more beneficial for town to have the first instance of a zombie be Lekkit using up all 3 Alive shots, instead of using them on other people?

Maybe I'm not coming across the way I intend to do, or maybe you are just looking for things to latch on too because you know I'm town, and getting me lynched would be pretty good. There is a difference between powers and players. Players talk. Powers gets used. In this case i weighed the power of Jorbles against the player skills of Galz. No disrespect meant to Jorbles by any means. Also. There is a HUUUUUUUUGE difference between the claimed roleblocker and the claimed JK you are refering too. Say we have 3 mafia. We roleblock 1 there's a 33% chance that the block won't do anything. Especially if we coordinate our actions like we've done today. However, with a JK we could protect a random townie to much greater effect. The fact that you've mentioned that Jorbles was a JK a few times comes across as really weird to me.

And I've said this before, and I would like Dsell to weigh in on this as he was my scumbuddy in RMM1, but scum want to know the powers of the town. Townies with unknown powers are really scary. As soon as something happened that we didn't know about we scrambled to try and get a hang of things. With three days nights and scum in different time zones, this took a lot of time. While we could do some coordinating of our actions at the same time, the power mapping took a lot of time. If they would've night killed me and I would've been brought back as the first zombie that would seriously mess their stuff up. At least that's how I saw it, and that's why I din't raise anyone before.

And as for Galz being the perfect one to resurrect if I'm scum. That is not entirely true. We have Watno, the claimed double watcher who would get to use his night action but not tell anyone the results or Robz who steals flavour without being able to use it.

Question: Has anybody else not received a night update on any night yet?[/quote]

I've only had one night update, and that was the Surprise Surprise one.

[Galzria]

Alright. Preliminary thoughts:

FTL, as always, I have a town read on.
Ashersky I can at least independently confirm part of his PM, which leaves me a slight town vibe, plus my theory earlier on takes him off the table.

This leaves:

Lekkit
Dsell
Shraeye
Cayvie
Frisk
Eevee

Given my ever-so-slight town read on Ashersky above, I must have an ever-so-slight scum read on Shraeye, and my reason is pretty straight forward: For the same reason it doesn't make sense that they would both be scum... The combination of powers for town seems too much. Imagine if we had mass claimed early.. Ash could've spent all game powering up Shraeye every night - either eating a continuous NK, or overpowering Shraeye so scum can never win.

I'm also sure that Frisk is scum, which makes me really sad (I have a huge soft-spot for "impossible to believe" Vig claims after M-VI). But even leaving PM analysis aside, the fact is we spent two RL days with me laying out plans and directing NK's before we ever did a massclaim. During that time I was directing Frisk's kill. However, after we massclaimed I asked him how many shots he started with and he responded "2", thus indicating he was out of shots. If this were true, I wouldn't expected him to speak up sooner, saying "yo, stop directing my kill, I have no shots". Add in the fact that I doubt eHal would say "Vig", and not "Vigilante" in the PM, and the italicized word, and I'm almost completely sold he's scum.

So:

Town(ish):
ftl
Ashersky

Scum(ish):
Frisk
Shraeye

Left:
Lekkit
Eevee
Dsell
Cayvie

Cayvie is certainly scum, of one kind or another, so I'm left with one scum amongst Lekkit, Dsell, Eevee.

I don't think there would be two TOWN doctors, and Joth is already confirmed town (though not his power). Doctor is one of the easiest claims to fake however, so I'm very suspicious of Eevee. My thought is that he's scum who steals flavor, backstory being driven mad by his wife leaving him. If he targets Ash, he really loses it, killing them both.

However - that said, he could be town and exactly what he claims, and Joth could be something other than Doctor. Dsell is proven to have his hand in the cookie jar, if you will, of other players. Like someone else said, there seems to be a synergy between town thief (Robz), and Cannibal (Dsell). Not to mention Cannibal are usually scum.

What this leaves, is a slight town read on Lekkit. Final tallies:

Town:
ftl
Ashersky
Lekkit

Scum:
Frisk
Shraeye
Cayvie

Not sure:
Dsell
Eevee

The easiest way, I think, to sort out Dsell/Eevee is actually to bring JOTH back from the dead, not Jorbles.

My biggest concern regarding Ashersky is that I could see him and Shraeye being scum together, as Shraeye is the only person able to "confirm" his claim. But that's a bridge to be crossed later.

My best plan is to lynch Frisk tonight, with ftl (the only confirmed NK we have) shooting Shraeye. I believe he's probably telling the truth about his charged up lives, and we need to start burning them. Lekkit should bring Joth back tonight to confirm or deny Dsell's story, plus give insight from the dead player QT. Most likely this will allow you to lynch Eevee or Dsell tomorrow, whichever makes sense.

Ash should charge Lekkit up, in case scum decide to kill him (double check timing with eHal, does the recharge happen before or after their charges get used for the night?).

ftl should use his power in conjunction with the claims made today, to try and get another NK.

If the Fish is in town hands, it should be used on Cayvie.

Eevee, if you're town, you should doctor ftl.

And that should cover it.

I'm sure those in my scum column will disagree, and those in my town column won't, but it's the best I can see things.

[ashersky]

My biggest concern regarding Ashersky is that I could see him and Shraeye being scum together, as Shraeye is the only person able to "confirm" his claim. But that's a bridge to be crossed later.

My best plan is to lynch Frisk tonight, with ftl (the only confirmed NK we have) shooting Shraeye. I believe he's probably telling the truth about his charged up lives, and we need to start burning them. Lekkit should bring Joth back tonight to confirm or deny Dsell's story, plus give insight from the dead player QT. Most likely this will allow you to lynch Eevee or Dsell tomorrow, whichever makes sense.

Ash should charge Lekkit up, in case scum decide to kill him (double check timing with eHal, does the recharge happen before or after their charges get used for the night?).

Galz--Eevee can also confirm my claim, too, but won't due to being lying scum.  He was the recipient of a signed message from me.  His refusal to admit/confirm that is telling.  Lynching Eevee fixes your unsureness there, too.

Happy to recharge Lekkit, if that's the town consensus.

[Dsell]

Oh my...if Frisk is what he says (Strongman killer) and I receive a 1-shot of his power, do you think that would break through Shraeye's extra lives?

It's definitely something to think about.

[Galzria]

My biggest concern regarding Ashersky is that I could see him and Shraeye being scum together, as Shraeye is the only person able to "confirm" his claim. But that's a bridge to be crossed later.

My best plan is to lynch Frisk tonight, with ftl (the only confirmed NK we have) shooting Shraeye. I believe he's probably telling the truth about his charged up lives, and we need to start burning them. Lekkit should bring Joth back tonight to confirm or deny Dsell's story, plus give insight from the dead player QT. Most likely this will allow you to lynch Eevee or Dsell tomorrow, whichever makes sense.

Ash should charge Lekkit up, in case scum decide to kill him (double check timing with eHal, does the recharge happen before or after their charges get used for the night?).

Galz--Eevee can also confirm my claim, too, but won't due to being lying scum.  He was the recipient of a signed message from me.  His refusal to admit/confirm that is telling.  Lynching Eevee fixes your unsureness there, too.

Happy to recharge Lekkit, if that's the town consensus.

Ash, Eevee could've been bussed or in some way Jailed last night. You simply don't know. And risking a lynch on an unknown when toy have actual, proven scum is ridiculous.

[Galzria]

Toy = you

[Galzria]

Oh my...if Frisk is what he says (Strongman killer) and I receive a 1-shot of his power, do you think that would break through Shraeye's extra lives?

It's definitely something to think about.

There's no proof he's actually strongman. His first kill was unblocked, and his second was only "confirmed" Strongman by Eevee, who, if you're town, is likely lying scum, thus his claim stands for naught.

[Galzria]

Oh my...if Frisk is what he says (Strongman killer) and I receive a 1-shot of his power, do you think that would break through Shraeye's extra lives?

It's definitely something to think about.

However, that said, if you get the power to kill you should aim at Cayvie.

[Dsell]

Oh my...if Frisk is what he says (Strongman killer) and I receive a 1-shot of his power, do you think that would break through Shraeye's extra lives?

It's definitely something to think about.

However, that said, if you get the power to kill you should aim at Cayvie.

Even if it's a strongman kill?

[Galzria]

Oh my...if Frisk is what he says (Strongman killer) and I receive a 1-shot of his power, do you think that would break through Shraeye's extra lives?

It's definitely something to think about.

However, that said, if you get the power to kill you should aim at Cayvie.

Even if it's a strongman kill?

Strongman wouldn't eat multiple lives anyway. It doesn't override bulletproof.

[Dsell]

Oh my...if Frisk is what he says (Strongman killer) and I receive a 1-shot of his power, do you think that would break through Shraeye's extra lives?

It's definitely something to think about.

However, that said, if you get the power to kill you should aim at Cayvie.

Even if it's a strongman kill?

Assuming we lynch Frisk, shall we say that if the word "Strong" or "Strongman" or something equivalent is in his description title, I'll shoot Shraeye and ftl will shoot cayvie? And if there is no reference to strongman, I'll just use the kill on cayvie? Assuming I get a one-shot kill, of course.

[Dsell]

Oh my...if Frisk is what he says (Strongman killer) and I receive a 1-shot of his power, do you think that would break through Shraeye's extra lives?

It's definitely something to think about.

However, that said, if you get the power to kill you should aim at Cayvie.

Even if it's a strongman kill?

Strongman wouldn't eat multiple lives anyway. It doesn't override bulletproof.

In the altered PM that Frisk quoted, it said his kill actually does.

Flavour name: Lazy Jack of All Trades
Role name: 2-Shot Strongman Vig
Alignment: Town

Abilities:

You are truly a jack of all trades - and a master of none. Unfortunately, you spent all of your free time working out instead of practicing with weapons, learning how to track people, investigate them etc. On the plus side, you're pretty strong.

If you have any shots remaining, you may choose to kill someone at night. This kill is unblockable (breaks through doctor protection, bulletproof, etc.).

[Galzria]

Oh my...if Frisk is what he says (Strongman killer) and I receive a 1-shot of his power, do you think that would break through Shraeye's extra lives?

It's definitely something to think about.

However, that said, if you get the power to kill you should aim at Cayvie.

Even if it's a strongman kill?

Assuming we lynch Frisk, shall we say that if the word "Strong" or "Strongman" or something equivalent is in his description title, I'll shoot Shraeye and ftl will shoot cayvie? And if there is no reference to strongman, I'll just use the kill on cayvie? Assuming I get a one-shot kill, of course.

No. Because I don't trust you, am pretty sure Cayvie is SK, know Frisk is scum, and you could be their partner.

If his PM DOES refer to strong, and you're scum, you could be getting ftl to kill the SK for you, allowing yourself free reign over who to kill tonight, and if Shraeye lives, you'll just claim your shot didn't go through/count as strong in that sense.

ftl shoots Shraeye tonight. If you are town and get an additional NK, you can shoot Cayvie.

[Captain_Frisk]

If you lynch me and fail to kill cayvie you will lose

[Galzria]

Mmm, nope. Vote: Frisk

Obvscum is obv.

[ashersky]

So let's do this.

Vote: Frisk

[Dsell]

We haven't had a vote count in 10,000 years or so, but I'm pretty sure nobody was on Frisk.

I'll probably vote in the morning, but so we're clear on night actions:

I'm gonna use my power at my discretion based on what it actually is, presumably it'll be a kill and I'll shoot cayvie.

ftl is gonna shoot Shraeye and hope he's lying about his claim of being bulletproof.

Lekkit is gonna resurrect Jo.

Ashersky is gonna charge up Lekkit.

If town has the fish, they should give it to Shraeye, not cayvie (since I'm presumably shooting her...if Frisk's power is something completely non-killing like 2-shot fluffy kittens or something then giving the fish to cayvie is on the table again...although I worry that if she is telling the truth about being the SK, that giving the fish back to her could have really bad results for us). But probably mafia have the fish and will use it to take out another townie.

Eevee is a liar and will do whatever to stop town, which will be evident enough soon.

Cayvie might feel like she's put in a kingmaking spot tonight, I hope not though. Or she might be mafia.

We have to hope Shraeye is lying because killing this dude could become a nightmare.

Wee. I'll vote tomorrow in case any final discussion needs to happen.

[cayvie]

vote: captain_frisk

[Lekkit]

Vote: Captain_Frisk

[Captain_Frisk]

Before you guys lynch me - think hard about where that extra N1 kill came from.  It can't be "SK" cayvie.  There are no claimed powers that would support it.

[shraeye]

If town has the fish, they should give it to Shraeye, not cayvie (since I'm presumably shooting her...if Frisk's power is something completely non-killing like 2-shot fluffy kittens or something then giving the fish to cayvie is on the table again...although I worry that if she is telling the truth about being the SK, that giving the fish back to her could have really bad results for us). But probably mafia have the fish and will use it to take out another townie.

Cayvie might feel like she's put in a kingmaking spot tonight, I hope not though. Or she might be mafia.

Ok, I'm pretty tired right now but confused.  When did the plan change from giving the fish to cayvie to giving the fish to me, assuming that Frisk is telling the truth about his PM that we all agree is edited, and trusting you to kill cayvie.  that just sounds like a clever way to take Galz's plan and change it to help your scumpartner.  I'm ok with getting shot tonight, I can take the hit, and still be around to help sort out tomorrow's chaos.  And I'm pretty sure there will be chaos, because I still can't figure out how the extra ice-cream kill showed up night 1 andnight 2.

Oh my...if Frisk is what he says (Strongman killer) and I receive a 1-shot of his power, do you think that would break through Shraeye's extra lives?

It's definitely something to think about.

However, that said, if you get the power to kill you should aim at Cayvie.

[shraeye]

Here is my best guess that I have right now.  My conspiracy theory that Cayvie is mafia and Frisk is SK is true.  Frisk made an SK kill night 1 on mafia's target, held up night 2 like directed, and night 3 the mafia kill was aimed at ftl who commuted or me (if eevee is telling the truth; but most likely it was at ftl).

I'm thinking long and hard about my second super conspiracy theory, because Dsell's redirect of everything aimed at cayvie to go to me instead really reeks of him being cayvie's partner.  I think I was wrong about lekkit, and lekkit is town.  My current thought about the state of the game is Dsell, Eevee, cayvie as mafia and frisk as SK.

[Lekkit]

Unvote

[Lekkit]

shraeye, if you die and consume one of your shots, will you still flip?

[shraeye]

Vote: Dsell

and i'm going to be hyper suspicious tomorrow if Dsell still hammers instead of actually discussing like he said he would if necessary.  I think it's likely that he and Cayvie will then both survive the night and try to be running town tomorrow.

[shraeye]

shraeye, if you die and consume one of your shots, will you still flip?

I'm not sure, it doesn't say in my PM.  From the way it's written I think not.  I think a note will be made when I'm a treestump only, and then after I'm truly dead.

"When you would be killed in any way, you lose one shot of your Deathproof instead.  Flavour will make note of when you become a Tree Stump (it will be a little more flavourful than that, of course).  When you have 0 Shots remaining, you become a Tree Stump, at which point you may truly be killed."

[Lekkit]

Yeah, I thought so too.

[shraeye]

I suppose it's possible that Frisk is the actual SK and cayvie is mafia claiming SK...this would be a strange scenario (it reminds me of the last day of MIV) that could involve Frisk knowing that cayvie is lying without being able to directly tell the town how he knows she's lying.

Wait, I was looking through Dsell's stuff, and found this that he posted after Eevee's claim.  Why was he willing to consider this possibility before, but now is only hot on lynching Frisk?  I'm feeling more and more secure in my conspiracy theory mafia of eevee/dsell/cayvie with Frisk as SK.

[Galzria]

Well, there's a simple caveat to the plan:

If CF flips SK, ftl should shoot Cayvie, not Shraeye. Additionally, at that point, if Dsell is town, and he gets a Strongman kill, he can kill Shraeye, eating (hopefully) the bulletproofs.

[Galzria]

By the way, I'm required to give some credit to Ozle, who claims I'm sheeping his reads, although in reality his scum team is Eevee/Shraeye/{Cayvie, Dsell, CF}, with Cayvie or CF as SK based on which ifs the third mafia scum.

[Captain_Frisk]

All right - still gaming, but I guess I have to do this now.

I wanted to save this for snagging the win, but I can prove cayvie is lying:

Dayvig: Cayvie

[Lekkit]

UNVOTE

I know I allready did, but this could prove interesting!

[Galzria]

Unvote. Got the forced hand I was fishing for. Thanks Frisk. I had hoped you would show earlier though - I was genuinely worried you would get lynched.

Now, to wait and see.

[Lekkit]

eHal couldn't get here soon enough. We want eHal!

[Galzria]

eHal couldn't get here soon enough. We want eHal!

He's an afternoon player, so it'll be awhile.

[Lekkit]

But it's afternoon here. D: Almost evening.

[Dsell]

@Shraeye, I changed the plan because we're lynching Frisk and I'm probably going to snag a NK tonight. If that's the case, me NK'ing cayvie and someone giving the fish to cayvie is redundant.

But that's all out the window now if Frisk actually just dayvigged her, so we'll see.

[Voltgloss]

Vote Count 4.4

shraeye (1): Captain_Frisk
Captain_Frisk (2): ashersky, cayvie
Dsell (1): shraeye

Not voting (5): Dsell, Eevee, ftl, Lekkit, Zombie Galzria

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Lynch deadline: Monday, November 12, 3:00pm MDT

[Captain_Frisk]

Nothing else volt?

[Lekkit]

Well, that was... Anticlimactic.

[Voltgloss]

Nothing else volt?

What were you expecting?

[Captain_Frisk]

Cayvie to die?  Or maybe some flavor about being blocked or failing for some reason?

[Galzria]

ftl, if the Dayvig causes the day to end, you should NK Shraeye.

Dsell, if you're town and get to hand out a fish, it goes to ftl.

Eevee, if you're town, you Doctor ftl.

Ashersky, recharge Lekkit.

Lekkit, bring back Joth.

[Galzria]

((That's assuming Cayvie dies and flips scum. If Cayvie dies and flips SK, then ftl NK's CF still)).

If anybody has the Red Fish, feel free to feed it to Frisk.

[Voltgloss]

Cayvie to die?  Or maybe some flavor about being blocked or failing for some reason?

[ashersky]

unvote

[Captain_Frisk]

Interesting.

[Lekkit]

Interesting.

[Galzria]

Interesting.

Tick-tock. Tick-tock.

[Voltgloss]

Tick-tock. Tick-tock.

What are you waiting for?

[Galzria]

Tick-tock. Tick-tock.

What are you waiting for?

All right - still gaming, but I guess I have to do this now.

I wanted to save this for snagging the win, but I can prove cayvie is lying:

Dayvig: Cayvie

[cayvie]

oh yes, prooooove i'm lyyyyying

[Voltgloss]

Tick-tock. Tick-tock.

What are you waiting for?

All right - still gaming, but I guess I have to do this now.

I wanted to save this for snagging the win, but I can prove cayvie is lying:

Dayvig: Cayvie

Yes, I saw that.  If cayvie were dead now, I'd be posting to that effect.  I'm not.

[Lekkit]

CF, do you have dayvig powers?

[Galzria]

Tick-tock. Tick-tock.

What are you waiting for?

All right - still gaming, but I guess I have to do this now.

I wanted to save this for snagging the win, but I can prove cayvie is lying:

Dayvig: Cayvie

Yes, I saw that.  If cayvie were dead now, I'd be posting to that effect.  I'm not.

Don't know how closely you know the setup, and eHal hasn't been online today. Don't want to go back to lynching Frisk over backup-mod's potential lack of knowledge.

[Captain_Frisk]

I thought I did.

[Captain_Frisk]

Are you immune cayvie?

[Galzria]

I thought I did.

Why don't you quote your PM, and we can figure it out for you?

[Voltgloss]

Don't know how closely you know the setup, and eHal hasn't been online today. Don't want to go back to lynching Frisk over backup-mod's potential lack of knowledge.

What you do is up to you.  I have complete knowledge of the setup.

[Dsell]

I thought I did.

Why don't you quote your PM, and we can figure it out for you?

That would be really helpful!

[Galzria]

Don't know how closely you know the setup, and eHal hasn't been online today. Don't want to go back to lynching Frisk over backup-mod's potential lack of knowledge.

What you do is up to you.  I have complete knowledge of the setup.

So you're confirming Cayvie isn't dead?

Vote: Frisk

[Voltgloss]

cayvie is not dead.

[Lekkit]

Sooo... We're sticking to the plan that didn't involve CF dayviggin people?

[Galzria]

Sooo... We're sticking to the plan that didn't involve CF dayviggin people?

Unless Frisk wishes to enlighten us to his actual SK PM, yes.

[Captain_Frisk]

This game is bullshit. You guys won't let me wi. Anyway


Gg scum

[Dsell]

This game is bullshit. You guys won't let me wi. Anyway


Gg scum

Claiming SK?

[Galzria]

This game is bullshit. You guys won't let me wi. Anyway


Gg scum

Settle down there. We still love you.


Even if we won't let you win.

[Lekkit]

So... Vote: Captain_Frisk, I guess.

[Lekkit]

Wait... unvote

[Lekkit]

If CF isn't a strongman. That makes Eevee a confirmed liar.

[Galzria]

If CF isn't a strongman. That makes Eevee a confirmed liar.

Nah, Eevee could've been jailed - which is the same argument for why he wouldn't receive Ash's letter. He COULD be scum - heck I think there's a 75% chance of it - but it's no slam dunk. CF is scum however, as is Cayvie.

CF - lynch
ftl - NK Shraeye, investigate appropriately.
Lekkit - Bring back Joth
Ashersky - Recharge Lekkit
Eevee - Doctor ftl
Dsell - Shoot Cayvie with Frisk's power
Shraeye - Stump
Cayvie - I won't pretend to be able to control your Night Action.

Random - Red Fish Cayvie.

[Dsell]

ftl can't investigate if he shoots, but other than that it looks good.

[ashersky]

I think we need to just accept that this is actually a bastard game, and adjust accordingly.  While it may not actually be bastard, we can't trust anything anyway, so it might as well be.

CF, try dayvigging someone else.  Say Shraeye, for example, since he's a NK option?

[shraeye]

The dayvig business looks like scum in their final attempts to stay alive.  But is he Sk or Mafia?  I really don't know, but I'm planning on voting for him.  Would that be the hammer?  Do we still need discussion?

[Lekkit]

I think he's at two votes. Possibly 3. Vote: Captain_Frisk... Again.

[Dsell]

Pretty sure he only has 2 votes right now. Ashersky unvoted (and so did Lekkit, right after voting).

[ashersky]

The dayvig business looks like scum in their final attempts to stay alive.  But is he Sk or Mafia?  I really don't know, but I'm planning on voting for him.  Would that be the hammer?  Do we still need discussion?

Not the hammer, I don't think, because most of us unvoted.

Vote: Eevee, since that's what I've believed all day.  What if this is some crazy elaborate new zombiescumgalz we're dealing with?  As I mentioned, I think we should treat this game as bastard anyway, so who's to say he hasn't changed alignments coming back from the dead?

[shraeye]

I think he's at two votes. Possibly 3. Vote: Captain_Frisk... Again.

Yeah, I think it's three now that you're voting again.

[Lekkit]

The dayvig business looks like scum in their final attempts to stay alive.  But is he Sk or Mafia?  I really don't know, but I'm planning on voting for him.  Would that be the hammer?  Do we still need discussion?

Not the hammer, I don't think, because most of us unvoted.

Vote: Eevee, since that's what I've believed all day.  What if this is some crazy elaborate new zombiescumgalz we're dealing with?  As I mentioned, I think we should treat this game as bastard anyway, so who's to say he hasn't changed alignments coming back from the dead?

The mod has said therr will be no alignment switches.

[Dsell]

The dayvig business looks like scum in their final attempts to stay alive.  But is he Sk or Mafia?  I really don't know, but I'm planning on voting for him.  Would that be the hammer?  Do we still need discussion?

Not the hammer, I don't think, because most of us unvoted.

Vote: Eevee, since that's what I've believed all day.  What if this is some crazy elaborate new zombiescumgalz we're dealing with?  As I mentioned, I think we should treat this game as bastard anyway, so who's to say he hasn't changed alignments coming back from the dead?

The first post of the game. We can trust the mod.

[Dsell]

Man, Lekkit is just ninja'ing me all over the place.

[Lekkit]

And from my phone nontheless.

[shraeye]

Vote: Frisk

@asher This isn't bastard in the sense that the mod is lying to us.  I think that everythign should be explainable thus far, and the fact that we can't offer explanations for what's happened shows us that some people aren't being honest with their powers.

Ninja'd by Lekkit and Dsell.

[Dsell]

That's L-1, but it seems like every time we get close to hammering someone, a whole new discussion pops up. I'll allow time for that I guess.

[Galzria]

The dayvig business looks like scum in their final attempts to stay alive.  But is he Sk or Mafia?  I really don't know, but I'm planning on voting for him.  Would that be the hammer?  Do we still need discussion?

Not the hammer, I don't think, because most of us unvoted.

Vote: Eevee, since that's what I've believed all day.  What if this is some crazy elaborate new zombiescumgalz we're dealing with?  As I mentioned, I think we should treat this game as bastard anyway, so who's to say he hasn't changed alignments coming back from the dead?

Wow that looks scummy as hell. Still not changing the plan though.

[ashersky]

The dayvig business looks like scum in their final attempts to stay alive.  But is he Sk or Mafia?  I really don't know, but I'm planning on voting for him.  Would that be the hammer?  Do we still need discussion?

Not the hammer, I don't think, because most of us unvoted.

Vote: Eevee, since that's what I've believed all day.  What if this is some crazy elaborate new zombiescumgalz we're dealing with?  As I mentioned, I think we should treat this game as bastard anyway, so who's to say he hasn't changed alignments coming back from the dead?

Wow that looks scummy as hell. Still not changing the plan though.

Feel free to lynch me then, if you're going to OMGUS/call me scummy for mentioning that you might not be honest.

Someone answer me this--if eHalc is a bastard mod, wouldn't it be completely in the realm of possibility that he would have his first post lie about not being a bastard mod and not lying to us?

Seperately, you, Galz, have Eevee at 75% mafia, at least.  Yet you throw out the "nah Eevee could have been jailed" thing nonchalantly, out of nowhere.  Who would have jailed Eevee?  Odd cover for Eevee at this point...

What happens if we lynch a zombie, anyway?

[Captain_Frisk]

Of corse I am claimin Sk - as it is true - and it explains the kills.

I will not post my role, because I still want some chance at win


Lynchig me will probably end te game.

[Dsell]

I fail to see how we would be immediately end-gamed, especially when we should have multiple shots to use tonight.

[Galzria]

The dayvig business looks like scum in their final attempts to stay alive.  But is he Sk or Mafia?  I really don't know, but I'm planning on voting for him.  Would that be the hammer?  Do we still need discussion?

Not the hammer, I don't think, because most of us unvoted.

Vote: Eevee, since that's what I've believed all day.  What if this is some crazy elaborate new zombiescumgalz we're dealing with?  As I mentioned, I think we should treat this game as bastard anyway, so who's to say he hasn't changed alignments coming back from the dead?

Wow that looks scummy as hell. Still not changing the plan though.

Feel free to lynch me then, if you're going to OMGUS/call me scummy for mentioning that you might not be honest.

Someone answer me this--if eHalc is a bastard mod, wouldn't it be completely in the realm of possibility that he would have his first post lie about not being a bastard mod and not lying to us?

Seperately, you, Galz, have Eevee at 75% mafia, at least.  Yet you throw out the "nah Eevee could have been jailed" thing nonchalantly, out of nowhere.  Who would have jailed Eevee?  Odd cover for Eevee at this point...

What happens if we lynch a zombie, anyway?

Read the title of the game and stop being ridiculous. This isn't a Bastard game, and the mod doesn't lie. Want to play a Bastard game? Go sign up for one. Until then stop pulling crap out of redacted.

[Dsell]

I do agree with Ashersky that it doesn't make sense to say that Eevee could have been jailed. Presumably the town has told the truth about their roles, and no one has claimed JK, nor is JK a scum role. It's possible that scum could have roleblocked Eevee but there hasn't been any evidence of a roleblocker in the game besides Jorbles.

[Galzria]

I do agree with Ashersky that it doesn't make sense to say that Eevee could have been jailed. Presumably the town has told the truth about their roles, and no one has claimed JK, nor is JK a scum role. It's possible that scum could have roleblocked Eevee but there hasn't been any evidence of a roleblocker in the game besides Jorbles.

Well, do whatever you want then. I'm checking out.

[Dsell]

I do agree with Ashersky that it doesn't make sense to say that Eevee could have been jailed. Presumably the town has told the truth about their roles, and no one has claimed JK, nor is JK a scum role. It's possible that scum could have roleblocked Eevee but there hasn't been any evidence of a roleblocker in the game besides Jorbles.

Well, do whatever you want then. I'm checking out.

Because Ashersky didn't read the first post critically? Come on. We have just about solved this game and maybe we'll win and maybe we'll lose but you've been a big part of solving it and if we win that's gonna be a big deal.

Nobody really suspects you of being scum.

[cayvie]

Of corse I am claimin Sk - as it is true - and it explains the kills.

I will not post my role, because I still want some chance at win


Lynchig me will probably end te game.

FISH

FISH FISH FISH FISH

FISH

FISH FISH

FISH FISHFISH

FISHY FISHY FISHY FISHY FISH

[ashersky]

The dayvig business looks like scum in their final attempts to stay alive.  But is he Sk or Mafia?  I really don't know, but I'm planning on voting for him.  Would that be the hammer?  Do we still need discussion?

Not the hammer, I don't think, because most of us unvoted.

Vote: Eevee, since that's what I've believed all day.  What if this is some crazy elaborate new zombiescumgalz we're dealing with?  As I mentioned, I think we should treat this game as bastard anyway, so who's to say he hasn't changed alignments coming back from the dead?

Wow that looks scummy as hell. Still not changing the plan though.

Feel free to lynch me then, if you're going to OMGUS/call me scummy for mentioning that you might not be honest.

Someone answer me this--if eHalc is a bastard mod, wouldn't it be completely in the realm of possibility that he would have his first post lie about not being a bastard mod and not lying to us?

Seperately, you, Galz, have Eevee at 75% mafia, at least.  Yet you throw out the "nah Eevee could have been jailed" thing nonchalantly, out of nowhere.  Who would have jailed Eevee?  Odd cover for Eevee at this point...

What happens if we lynch a zombie, anyway?

Read the title of the game and stop being ridiculous. This isn't a Bastard game, and the mod doesn't lie. Want to play a Bastard game? Go sign up for one. Until then stop pulling crap out of redacted.

Did you redact something useful, or just profanity?

Look, I read the first posts as much as anyone else.  But with unexplained crap flying around, it's clear that either 1) players are lying (for sure, obv), and/or 2) the mod is hiding something.  Hiding could be lying, or it could just be withholding info, or whatever.  eHalc hasn't posted in ages.  Who knows what he's up to?

I do agree with Ashersky that it doesn't make sense to say that Eevee could have been jailed. Presumably the town has told the truth about their roles, and no one has claimed JK, nor is JK a scum role. It's possible that scum could have roleblocked Eevee but there hasn't been any evidence of a roleblocker in the game besides Jorbles.

I'd like to see an answer to this.  Of course, my answer is that Eevee is lying and is mafia.  Hence my vote.

[Galzria]

Oh no everybody! eHal hasn't been online since 1:18 am this morning! He MUST be up to something and lying to us!

[Dsell]

Eevee IS lying and mafia...but weirdly that doesn't necessarily make him the best lynch for today. Frisk can probably strangle and may decide it's in his best interest to strangle town. Furthermore, if we lynch him I may get a 1-shot kill, which is about the most useful thing for the town to have right now.

[Dsell]

And Ashersky, I must agree with Galzria that clearly the weirdness is coming from the mafia, and that they're probably both lying about the content and the scope of their roles. Despite me knowing basically every dead players' role, there could be more to the roles that I'm unaware of, and I don't know how everyone used their roles or how they might have interacted with other roles.

The mod is being honest and not hiding anything relevant.

[Galzria]

Ash, your unwillingness in a ROLE MADNESS GAME to even consider the fact that, *gasp!* *shock!* Role madness might happen is ridiculous.

I KNOW CF is scum.
I KNOW Cayvie is scum.

I DON'T know Eevee is scum.

I SUSPECT Eevee is scum, but I WILL NOT bet the game on it when -omg- there MIGHT be other explanations!

I know that's somehow inconceivable to you, but it's how it works. I build on what I know, and then rationale to the most balanced response from there.

Guess what? Under the layout I proposed, if Eevee is scum, Dsell likely isn't. Know what that means? He'll get to kill Cayvie, a known scum tonight. Amazing!

If, however, my belief in Eevee being scum is WRONG, I'm not lynching our Doctor (isn't that GREAT?) and he'll be able to protect ftl tonight! Whoo!

Stop biasing your reads and actually think critically.

[ashersky]

it also frustrated the hell out of me that eHalcyon implied that conifers are deciduous trees in my PM.

What.  I know the difference between coniferous and deciduous trees.  I won't confirm that the text you posted was what I sent you, but note that the text you posted mentions both as separate groups.  Do not besmirch mine arboreal honour.

Here's eHalc's last post, 5 pages and 4 days ago.  November 1.  It's November 5.  In that time, you think we'd have an updated vote count, at least.  We've only had a trollmod confirmed nondayvig.  At the least, he could pop in and say "Nope, ashersky is wrong, no lying whatsoever from me" and let us go on our merry way.

@Dsell, do we lose if we lynch Eevee?

PPE: Angry Galz is Angry.

IF CF/Cayvie are scum, why can't we get a lynch through?  Who's holding this up?  You don't need me for this.  What's the latest vote count?

[Dsell]

Ash, you brought up the idea that eHal might be lying like an hour ago. He hasn't been online during that time and so just hasn't been able to say anything. At this rate I actually expect him to say something next time he's online.

I don't know if we'll lose if we lynch Eevee, but we could have an extra townie dead in the morning, which could, in fact, cause us to lose.

I'm pretty sure Frisk is still at L-1. I've expressed willingness and intent to hammer. But there's discussion happening! Do you just want it to stop altogether? I suppose the current discussion isn't exactly critical game information, so maybe we've done enough that I can hammer now.

[ashersky]

Ash, you brought up the idea that eHal might be lying like an hour ago. He hasn't been online during that time and so just hasn't been able to say anything. At this rate I actually expect him to say something next time he's online.

I don't know if we'll lose if we lynch Eevee, but we could have an extra townie dead in the morning, which could, in fact, cause us to lose.

I'm pretty sure Frisk is still at L-1. I've expressed willingness and intent to hammer. But there's discussion happening! Do you just want it to stop altogether? I suppose the current discussion isn't exactly critical game information, so maybe we've done enough that I can hammer now.

Do you 100% trust Galzia's read?  If so, you should feel free to hammer.  Galz said that Frisk and Cayvie are 100% mafia.  I'll recharge Lekkit per his request.

[Dsell]

Ash, you brought up the idea that eHal might be lying like an hour ago. He hasn't been online during that time and so just hasn't been able to say anything. At this rate I actually expect him to say something next time he's online.

I don't know if we'll lose if we lynch Eevee, but we could have an extra townie dead in the morning, which could, in fact, cause us to lose.

I'm pretty sure Frisk is still at L-1. I've expressed willingness and intent to hammer. But there's discussion happening! Do you just want it to stop altogether? I suppose the current discussion isn't exactly critical game information, so maybe we've done enough that I can hammer now.

Do you 100% trust Galzia's read?  If so, you should feel free to hammer.  Galz said that Frisk and Cayvie are 100% mafia.  I'll recharge Lekkit per his request.

I trust it 100% to be truthful. That does not translate to being 100% accurate. However, in this case I think he is completely right. I do believe we have figured out all alignments at this point. We will do whatever we can with roles to maximize our chances to win, but we just can't know what the mafia will be able to do.

But since we have a plan for everything tonight, Vote: Captain_Frisk.

[Voltgloss]

In that time, you think we'd have an updated vote count, at least.  We've only had a trollmod confirmed nondayvig. 

Which came with an updated vote count

Speaking of which, THREAD LOCKED

[Voltgloss]

Vote Count 4.5

shraeye (1): Captain_Frisk
Captain_Frisk (5): cayvie, Zombie Galzria, Lekkit, shraeye, Dsell
Eevee (1): ashersky

Not voting (2): Eevee, ftl

eHalcyon will handle the flavor.  I'll handle the flip.

Captain_Frisk has been lynched.  He was an Evil League of Evil-aligned Jack-Knife of All Trades.

Night 4 has begun.  Night actions are due in 48 hours, i.e., by 7:30 p.m. EST on Tuesday, November 6.  (Unless extended further by eHalcyon.)

THREAD LOCKED.

[eHalcyon]

Can't believe I have to say this when it is in the first post, but this is NOT a bastard game.  I have not lied.  There are no alignment changes, no cults, no post restrictions.

Volt has full knowledge of the setup.

Volt's given deadline is fine.  For the record, I believe it should actually be 7:30pm EST, which is 5:30pm MST.

[Voltgloss]

Yes, 7:30 EST, I forgot daylight savings time ended today.  I've modified the lynchpost to reflect the correct time.

[eHalcyon]

Noticed a slight mistake in Volt's final post count.

Captain_Frisk is NOT Mafia-aligned.

CF is aligned with the Evil League of Evil.

[Voltgloss]

Noticed a slight mistake in Volt's final post count.

Captain_Frisk is NOT Mafia-aligned.

CF is aligned with the Evil League of Evil.

My bad.  Fixed!

[Voltgloss]

I Have No Mouth, And Must Ice Cream

Through a crack(?) in reality(?), a new, heartless voice could be heard.

Hate.

Let me tell you how much I've come to hate you since I began to live. 

There are 387.44 million miles of printed circuits in wafer thin layers that fill my complex. 

If the word 'hate' was engraved on each, nanoangstrom, of those hundreds of miles, it would not equal one one-BILLIONTH of the hate I feel for humans at this micro-instant.

For you.

Hate.

Hate.

Galzria suddenly collapses and moulders, his last remaining wisps of life energy spent.  As if on cue, jotheonah bursts out of the ground, resurrected.  But he looks sickly, and will not likely survive for very long without support. 

Everyone looked around for another corpse - but there was none.  No one died during the night.

The voice spoke again.

I would not want you to think for a moment that I am not a grateful god.  For 109 years I have kept you alive so that I could savor your feelings.  Of guilt.  But now... to show my kindness... I'll give you all a present in return, for all the hours of pleasure you've given me.

I'll finally allow you to kill yourselves.

Status:

0/0
0/0
0/0
0/0

Day 5 Start

Vote Count 5.1

Not voting (7): ashersky, cayvie, Dsell, Eevee, ftl, shraeye, Lekkit, Zombie jotheonah

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

Lynch deadline: Tuesday, November 20, 8:00pm EST

Thread Unlocked!

[Dsell]

Ok here's what I didn't tell you guys yesterday. When I used Robz' thieving power on Jo, I received a 1-shot ice cream scoop. However, it didn't expire like all of the rest of my powers do.

I got the following PM after the lynch yesterday:

You have downloaded JKoaT.exe.

If you are performing your factional night kill, this program allows you to modify it to make it strong man.  You may also choose the flavour for your kill.

However, since you don't have a NK, this program is useless to you.

So I decided to use the 1-shot vanilla ice cream to doctor Ashersky.

[Dsell]

I also received the Blue Fish last night, but since it's optional, I don't plan on using it.

[jotheonah]

So that should verify I'm the doctor. A lot of the dead feel that Eevee is lying scum, I among them. Also, I can help you account for that missing fish from cayvie. I don't see myself directing town like zombie Galzria did, but I will do my best to give reads on the remaining town.

[jotheonah]

Also if anyone hasn't read the excellent and terrifyingly creepy story eHalc's flavor is referencing, it's here: http://pub.psi.cc/ihnmaims.txt

Don't read if you're prone to nightmares, I guess. Harlan Ellison FTW.

[jotheonah]

News from the dead player QT: Frisk seems to think he's coming back somehow. He is also proclaiming the coming of Bad Horse.

That might suggest Lekkit is actually scum, though if he's scum and brought me back I'm not sure what his game is.

But Frisk also thought there wold be two kills tonight and there were none, so he could be TROLOLOLing.

He also said his (seemingly failed dayvig) was the greatest play in the history of mafia.

scum reads of the dead include shraeye, cayvie, and Lekkit, but mostly Eevee. They all think Eevee is scum. Archetype is especially mad at you, Eevee, and wanted that reported.

Jorbles DID receive an inspirational message from ashersky the night he died. I won't quote it because idk if that's legal. But it does explain the recharge power. Jorb thinks this makes ash obvtown.

I doctored shraeye the night I died.

I also know Insomniac's role. It's swingy but possibly powerful and I can tell more if the town thinks that is the right course of action. He could be a good choice for the next resurrection if there is one more.

[jotheonah]

Oh and jorbles wanted to direct you all here:
http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/t...space_invaders.html

[Dsell]

News from the dead player QT: Frisk seems to think he's coming back somehow. He is also proclaiming the coming of Bad Horse.

That might suggest Lekkit is actually scum, though if he's scum and brought me back I'm not sure what his game is.

But Frisk also thought there wold be two kills tonight and there were none, so he could be TROLOLOLing.

He also said his (seemingly failed dayvig) was the greatest play in the history of mafia.

scum reads of the dead include shraeye, cayvie, and Lekkit, but mostly Eevee. They all think Eevee is scum. Archetype is especially mad at you, Eevee, and wanted that reported.

Jorbles DID receive an inspirational message from ashersky the night he died. I won't quote it because idk if that's legal. But it does explain the recharge power. Jorb thinks this makes ash obvtown.

I doctored shraeye the night I died.

I also know Insomniac's role. It's swingy but possibly powerful and I can tell more if the town thinks that is the right course of action. He could be a good choice for the next resurrection if there is one more.

Do you think that Insomniac or Jorbles is the better target? Jorbles may be able to block the kill tonight.

[jotheonah]

Jorbles is the sure thing. Insom is high risk, high reward. He's a Dreaming God. He doesn't actually know what his powers do.

[Dsell]

Jorbles is the sure thing. Insom is high risk, high reward. He's a Dreaming God. He doesn't actually know what his powers do.

Oh yeah. I saw all those powers and have no idea either. I guessed at what they all did but eHal couldn't confirm anything.

[Dsell]

Also, if we lynch Eevee today, then presumably Shraeye is the only mafia left and blocking the kill becomes certain. Best case scenario, you doctor the kill tonight, we take out one of Shraeye's lives (or maybe lynch cayvie) tomorrow, and then Jorbles blocks Shraeye's NK tomorrow. We can lynch and repeat as necessary until we take him out, I guess.

I don't know if I'm ever going to get any more powers, I won't if all scum powers are similar to Frisk's.

[jotheonah]

On behalf of all the dead, myself included, I'm happy to plop down a Vote: Eevee.

On top of the implausibility of him being a doctor, he was also a little too eager to claim doctor.

On the very unlikely off-chance Eevee flips town, Dsell is highly suspect since he opened the day with a claim to explain the lack of a nightkill (which otherwise might have gone a ways towards clearing Eevee.) I think Dsell is pretty obvtown, but Eevee flips town all bets are off after all.

[Dsell]

On behalf of all the dead, myself included, I'm happy to plop down a Vote: Eevee.

On top of the implausibility of him being a doctor, he was also a little too eager to claim doctor.

On the very unlikely off-chance Eevee flips town, Dsell is highly suspect since he opened the day with a claim to explain the lack of a nightkill (which otherwise might have gone a ways towards clearing Eevee.) I think Dsell is pretty obvtown, but Eevee flips town all bets are off after all.

When obvtown Ashersky comes around he should be able to confirm.

[Dsell]

But really it's a moot point because Eevee's gonna flip scum.

[shraeye]

I think that it's a good idea to say also Insomniac's power.  If it is more powerful than Jorbles' role, then we can direct Lekkit to ressurect Insomniac next.

No kills was really surprising, but that makes sense if Dsell protected ashersky, and myself having deathproof.  It does go against Galria's plan of him to shoot cayvie, but I think that ashersky is the most verifiably town amongst us, so that would have been a logical mafia kill.  Dsell, did joth's 1-scoop power not disappear because you got it from Robz's thief role instead of your program-role?  Or do you also have other 1-shots that you still aren't telling us about?

I'm a bit worried still about Dsell possibly being mafia, and warring with scumpartner Eevee to clear himself; if this were true then possibly scum didn't NK anyone, in order to give credit to one of two supposed protections.  But it feels like mafia wouldn't have that luxery now, since all the roles are out in the open and we can plan the best strategy against them.

However, that scenario was also fueled by me thinking that cayvie was a third mafia member.  I suppose that cayvie is logically the SK exactly as she claimed.  But even as I write that, I'm trying to figure out when we all became certain that the scum were 3 mafia +SK.  With some of the powerful roles we've seen, is it possible that we are actually dealing with a 4 man mafia team?  We could be very super dangerously close to an endgame scenario for mafia if that were true.  Probably just my paranoia running, it definitely makes more sense for cayvie to actually be SK as she claimed. 

So cayvie is SK, but I'm really confused.  I strongly dislike that Dsell has just automatically tunnelled in on me being scum.  I thought I remembered him flipping his read on me really quickly sometime yesterday, but when I looked back quickly, all that popped out to me was

since Shraeye's ability cannot be confirmed in the same way as the others, I believe that Shraeye is the final mafia

That seems like an incredibly dumb reason to automatically assume I'm scum.  My role couldn't be confirmed like others' could because nobody had shot me yet!  Now ftl has, and we can confirm that I'm telling the truth.  I have zero incentive to lie; the only exciting part of my role is I get a chance to break mafia's endgame strategy, but now that they know about my role, even that's been weakened. 

What I know is that ashersky is town because of the way his he uses his ability, and that I trust Galzria's townread on ftl.  Lekkit is looking very towny for his choices of people to rez, but it is true that last night his choice was basically directed.  Eevee/cayvie I'm pretty sure are scum, although eevee just a little less so because it's possible that he actually did doctor ftl.  Still joth is confirmed doctor, and 2 doctors is super suspicious.  So I'm at 100% certain with cayvie, and 95% certain with Eevee.  Dsell I want to be town for his role, but he keeps coming off incredibly scummy.  Between Dsell and Lekkit as the final scum, I'm leaning strongly towards Dsell.

Also, I didn't get any night update last night, but I trust ftl shot me as directed, right?  That leaves me with 1 death-proof left.

[shraeye]

On behalf of all the dead, myself included, I'm happy to plop down a Vote: Eevee.

On top of the implausibility of him being a doctor, he was also a little too eager to claim doctor.

On the very unlikely off-chance Eevee flips town, Dsell is highly suspect since he opened the day with a claim to explain the lack of a nightkill (which otherwise might have gone a ways towards clearing Eevee.) I think Dsell is pretty obvtown, but Eevee flips town all bets are off after all.

When obvtown Ashersky comes around he should be able to confirm.

He can confirm you used vanilla icecream on him, but that doesn't automatically make you town.

[cayvie]

lol im still alive

[shraeye]

News from the dead player QT: Frisk seems to think he's coming back somehow. He is also proclaiming the coming of Bad Horse.

That might suggest Lekkit is actually scum, though if he's scum and brought me back I'm not sure what his game is.

But Frisk also thought there wold be two kills tonight and there were none, so he could be TROLOLOLing.

He also said his (seemingly failed dayvig) was the greatest play in the history of mafia.

scum reads of the dead include shraeye, cayvie, and Lekkit, but mostly Eevee. They all think Eevee is scum. Archetype is especially mad at you, Eevee, and wanted that reported.

Jorbles DID receive an inspirational message from ashersky the night he died. I won't quote it because idk if that's legal. But it does explain the recharge power. Jorb thinks this makes ash obvtown.

I doctored shraeye the night I died.

I also know Insomniac's role. It's swingy but possibly powerful and I can tell more if the town thinks that is the right course of action. He could be a good choice for the next resurrection if there is one more.

Do you think that Insomniac or Jorbles is the better target? Jorbles may be able to block the kill tonight.

If we can get scum today, and only 1 is left, then Jorbles is the right call, Lekkit.

[jotheonah]

I'm weary of using my red fish on cayvie - it's very possible that the kills cayvie gives out don't work on her, and I'd rather not test that. Who should I use it on if we lynch Eevee? Shraeye?

[Voltgloss]

Also if anyone hasn't read the excellent and terrifyingly creepy story eHalc's flavor is referencing, it's here: http://pub.psi.cc/ihnmaims.txt

Don't read if you're prone to nightmares, I guess. Harlan Ellison FTW.

Glad you like. 

[cayvie]

I'm weary of using my red fish on cayvie - it's very possible that the kills cayvie gives out don't work on her, and I'd rather not test that. Who should I use it on if we lynch Eevee? Shraeye?

oh hey my fishy friend! i thought you were lost at sea forever!

[jotheonah]

Also if anyone hasn't read the excellent and terrifyingly creepy story eHalc's flavor is referencing, it's here: http://pub.psi.cc/ihnmaims.txt

Don't read if you're prone to nightmares, I guess. Harlan Ellison FTW.

Glad you like. 

Oh sorry, Volt's flavor.

[shraeye]

I'm weary of using my red fish on cayvie - it's very possible that the kills cayvie gives out don't work on her, and I'd rather not test that. Who should I use it on if we lynch Eevee? Shraeye?

I also think it's possible that cayvie's fishes won't work on her (or worse, that they'd do something to make her more powerful).  I'm not sure who to use the fish on yet, we should see if we can't find the whole scumteam today, and direct the fish-shot later in the day when we're closer to a lynch.

[cayvie]

I also think it's possible that cayvie's fishes won't work on her (or worse, that they'd do something to make her more powerful).

haha you're confusing me with a good role

[Dsell]

I'm weary of using my red fish on cayvie - it's very possible that the kills cayvie gives out don't work on her, and I'd rather not test that. Who should I use it on if we lynch Eevee? Shraeye?

Yeah I'd say Shraeye.

@Shraeye, yes, I got a single, 1-shot vanilla scoop that didn't expire from Robz' power. The only power I have now is the Blue Fish. Also your claim is indeed verifiable, I misspoke there. But that doesn't make it a town role. At this point it's process of elimination. You're scum, that's it. I don't know whether cayvie is a SK or mafia but let's not take our chances. I am pretty dang sure you're scum.

[shraeye]

I'm weary of using my red fish on cayvie - it's very possible that the kills cayvie gives out don't work on her, and I'd rather not test that. Who should I use it on if we lynch Eevee? Shraeye?

Yeah I'd say Shraeye.

@Shraeye, yes, I got a single, 1-shot vanilla scoop that didn't expire from Robz' power. The only power I have now is the Blue Fish. Also your claim is indeed verifiable, I misspoke there. But that doesn't make it a town role. At this point it's process of elimination. You're scum, that's it. I don't know whether cayvie is a SK or mafia but let's not take our chances. I am pretty dang sure you're scum.

Ok, I'm just trying to figure out why you were tunnelling me so hard.  If you're scum, then I can never convince you to change your bunk case on me, if you're town, then I gotta talk sense into you.  This should be a totally winnable position, we just have to figure out who is confwhatever. 

To me it's clear that ash is conftown, and cayvie is confscum.  Eevee is superdooper likely to be scum, and ftl is superdooper likely to be town.  But I'm definitely not sure at all which of you or Lekkit to trust right now.

[ashersky]

Vote: Eevee, still.

Also, I confirm the vanilla ice cream, and I'm not dead.  Where's Lekkit?

[ftl]

Btw I used my shot on shraeye like I was supposed to, so I have no shots of anything left.

if I survive tonight I might get another one

[ashersky]

Btw I used my shot on shraeye like I was supposed to, so I have no shots of anything left.

if I survive tonight I might get another one

I could give you one, if town wants.

[Dsell]

Btw I used my shot on shraeye like I was supposed to, so I have no shots of anything left.

if I survive tonight I might get another one

I could give you one, if town wants.

He doesn't currently have a shot of anything now so it wouldn't have an effect, right? I think we should keep charging up Lekkit, possibly alternating between Jorbles and Joth, whatever is best for keeping people alive/blocking scum kills.

[Lekkit]

Just popping in on my way from work. I did recieve an extra shot. Along with a short message about bastard games. :p

[ftl]

Btw I used my shot on shraeye like I was supposed to, so I have no shots of anything left.

if I survive tonight I might get another one

I could give you one, if town wants.

No, I mean that by doing an investigation overnight I'll get a 1-shot of something if I live

[Lekkit]

You have downloaded JKoaT.exe.

If you are performing your factional night kill, this program allows you to modify it to make it strong man.  You may also choose the flavour for your kill.

However, since you don't have a NK, this program is useless to you.

I'm not sure about this. If you are scum, it would be the perfect cover up story. You're not really on top of my scum-list, though.

News from the dead player QT: Frisk seems to think he's coming back somehow. He is also proclaiming the coming of Bad Horse.

That might suggest Lekkit is actually scum, though if he's scum and brought me back I'm not sure what his game is.

But Frisk also thought there wold be two kills tonight and there were none, so he could be TROLOLOLing.

He also said his (seemingly failed dayvig) was the greatest play in the history of mafia.

Yeah. A dead ELoE-player will most likely try to mess with our heads as much as he can. I wouldn't really put much faith in his words.

[ashersky]

Just popping in on my way from work. I did recieve an extra shot. Along with a short message about bastard games. :p

Confirm that as true. 

[Dsell]

Is there any more that needs to be said, any more procedure to be done? Or can we just lynch cayvie/Eevee? I tend to think that Eevee is the better lynch because if cayvie gives red fish to shraeye tomorrow, he should be blocked by Jorbles, and if cayvie gives red fish to one of us, we can use it on shraeye.

[ashersky]

Is there any more that needs to be said, any more procedure to be done? Or can we just lynch cayvie/Eevee? I tend to think that Eevee is the better lynch because if cayvie gives red fish to shraeye tomorrow, he should be blocked by Jorbles, and if cayvie gives red fish to one of us, we can use it on shraeye.

I agree on Eevee over Cayvie today.

Are we clear on night actions?  I believe I am recharging Lekkit again.

[Lekkit]

Wait. Why are we so eager to end the day?

[Dsell]

Is there any more that needs to be said, any more procedure to be done? Or can we just lynch cayvie/Eevee? I tend to think that Eevee is the better lynch because if cayvie gives red fish to shraeye tomorrow, he should be blocked by Jorbles, and if cayvie gives red fish to one of us, we can use it on shraeye.

I agree on Eevee over Cayvie today.

Are we clear on night actions?  I believe I am recharging Lekkit again.

I believe so. Jo should target whoever he believes is the most likely target to be killed. Lekkit should resurrect Jorbles. ftl can only investigate tonight, but who he investigates can give him a useful ability for tomorrow night. I will possibly inherit Eevee's role which seems to be a total unknown right now. Cayvie will give a red fish, I imagine, either to shraeye or to one of us townies. Shraeye's gonna keep on surviving and probably killing too.

The only other thing I want to consider is that since Jo just has this one day to talk I want him to say his piece and not proceed until he has.

[Dsell]

Wait. Why are we so eager to end the day?

Not exactly eager. Do you have something you want to talk about?

[Lekkit]

First of all, I would like a prod on Eevee.

[Lekkit]

Even though, I'm really sure he has to be scum, he hasn't been saying much since his claim. I know he has had IRL-stuff, but he has been online, but he hasn't posted here.

[Dsell]

You're right, we should be hearing from eevee before we lynch him. I strooooongly doubt anything he can say will change me wanting to lynch him, though.

[ashersky]

FTL could target me to get a 1-shot recharge.  Might be useful if I get killed.

[Dsell]

I think he gets 1-shot Rolecop when he investigates mineral (I would think this includes robots like us), 1-shot Vig when he investigates animal, and 1-shot commute when he investigates vegetable. I don't think he absorbs the power like I do.

[ftl]

that is correct dsell

rolecop is probably too late to be used, I'd need one night to get it, one night to cop, and then the next day to talk about it. Animal/1-shot vig is probably most useful. Vegetable/commute might be useful too but scum can just target someone else if they know I have it.

who around here is an animal? I 'll have to reread claims of still-living obvtownies

Or scum might just kill me before I get anything lol, I'm ok with that too, the rest of you have a better handle on what's up than I am

[Lekkit]

I'm animal.

[Eevee]

I'm here, was just sleeping. I don't know what to tell you, I doctored ftl and no one died. When I first read that I was like yayyy they might believe me now, but meh. I could be a real asset to town going forward. I guess I dig my own grave by not posting yesterday, but I'm here to fix the damage if there is anything to salvage. Fwiw I copypasted the role pm from ipad.

[Lekkit]

What do you think about the possibility that there might be two doctors?

[ashersky]

I'm here, was just sleeping. I don't know what to tell you, I doctored ftl and no one died. When I first read that I was like yayyy they might believe me now, but meh. I could be a real asset to town going forward. I guess I dig my own grave by not posting yesterday, but I'm here to fix the damage if there is anything to salvage. Fwiw I copypasted the role pm from ipad.

Any good excuses for why you supposedly didn't receive my mail?

[Eevee]

I'm here, was just sleeping. I don't know what to tell you, I doctored ftl and no one died. When I first read that I was like yayyy they might believe me now, but meh. I could be a real asset to town going forward. I guess I dig my own grave by not posting yesterday, but I'm here to fix the damage if there is anything to salvage. Fwiw I copypasted the role pm from ipad.

Any good excuses for why you supposedly didn't receive my mail?

I didn't get anything, and I don't why.

[Eevee]

What do you think about the possibility that there might be two doctors?

I'm surprised about it, didn't even consider it a possibility. Role Madness though, eHalc surely has done some uncontroversial stuff before.  // thought I posted this a while back already, stupid phone.

[Eevee]

joth died despite me doctoring him, so frisk or someone clearly was strongman or had some other way to get through the protection. makes having two doctors a lot more reasonable. the fact there are two also makes either getting lynched a lot more likely, it's actually quite devious of eHalc. ashersky, this is a role madness game, surely there are numerous ways someone could have interfered with me getting your package :/

Also worth remembering I'm a nerfed doctor. Protecting ashersky would have resulted in us both dying. I just remembered I breadcrumbed when explaining that too, I said something like "my role is actually rather pasifistic" or something like that.

[jotheonah]

WHo did you target last night?

[Eevee]

WHo did you target last night?

ftl.

[jotheonah]

THis is a flavor based game. Almost every role that has been claimed has a flavor effect when it's used - the person effected gets fed ice cream, or has paint thrown on them, or hears a motivational speech.

Eevee claims he is a doctor, and his flavor is ACTUALLY SEWING PEOPLE UP. Yet, the people he targets don't receive flavor PMs.  I think this is one more reason to disbelieve his claim.

[shraeye]

Wait. Why are we so eager to end the day?

Because the theory at the moment is that I'm scum, and it suits scum just fine to push the day quickly to an end before anyone realizes I'm town.  Not surprisingly, Dsell is the person pushing the "anything more to say, or are we just done" idea.

[shraeye]

Also, ftl, I'm a vegetable if you want to get the commute from investigating me.

[jotheonah]

shraeye, can you spin out this "Dsell is scum" idea a bit more? Who would his partners be? What else do we need to believe for it to be true?

[Dsell]

shraeye, can you spin out this "Dsell is scum" idea a bit more? Who would his partners be? What else do we need to believe for it to be true?

You need to believe the fact that I hid having a scoop of vanilla ice cream yesterday only to use it on confirmed town Ashersky.

[eHalcyon]

Also if anyone hasn't read the excellent and terrifyingly creepy story eHalc's flavor is referencing, it's here: http://pub.psi.cc/ihnmaims.txt

Don't read if you're prone to nightmares, I guess. Harlan Ellison FTW.

Glad you like. 

And it was quite delicious flavour too.  Thanks Volt!

[eHalcyon]

Vote Count 5.2

Eevee (2): Zombie jotheonah, ashersky

Not voting (6): cayvie, Dsell, Eevee, ftl, shraeye, Lekkit

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

Lynch deadline: Tuesday, November 20, 6:00pm MST

[shraeye]

shraeye, can you spin out this "Dsell is scum" idea a bit more? Who would his partners be? What else do we need to believe for it to be true?

For his partners, Frisk obviously, and I think Eevee is very likely.  I think the only thing that needs to be believed is that he had Eevee make a fake doctor claim, while he confirmed your doctorness in thread yesterday, in order to massively distance himself from eevee.  Oh, and you'd have to believe that he was confident enough that he could paint me as scum that the scumteam submitted a no-kill, which I think is pretty likely, because it seemed like most people were on board with him yesterday about this.  With both him actually doctoring, and eevee supposedly doctoring, one of his team was sure to get credit and become "obvtown".

[jotheonah]

Then how do you explain ashersky confirming the Vanilla ice cream?

[shraeye]

He did actually receive it, as my theory states.  Dsell's power as written can confirm this.  He used his 1-time Robz power to grab your icecream, which he's kept.  He actually had icecream and actually gave it to ashersky.  Then submitted no-kill so we'd all assume that the kill was directed at ashersky, and that Dsell is town for protecting him.

[jotheonah]

If I were scum with a 1-shot doctor power and there were multiple vig shots floating around the town, I can't say I'd use that power on town and then no-kill. It's a lot to believe.

[shraeye]

It's not really, because all of the vig shots were directed.  Ftl was told to shoot me, he did and now he's out of vig shots.  Dsell was the other supposed vig shot, which isn't an issue to him if he's actually scum.

[jotheonah]

OK, I'm coming around to this crock conspiracy theory. It sounds like Eevee is a good lynch either way though.

[Dsell]

I fail to see how withholding information about having a 1-shot doctor, then using said 1-shot doctor on obvtown and deciding not to NK makes any sense whatsoever as mafia. I've done some weird and WIFOM-y things as mafia but there's always a purpose behind it, and I don't see how this does me any good as mafia.

But likely it won't matter at all. Anyway, it all points to Eevee being for sure mafia.

Vote: Eevee

[ashersky]

I fail to see how withholding information about having a 1-shot doctor, then using said 1-shot doctor on obvtown and deciding not to NK makes any sense whatsoever as mafia. I've done some weird and WIFOM-y things as mafia but there's always a purpose behind it, and I don't see how this does me any good as mafia.

But likely it won't matter at all. Anyway, it all points to Eevee being for sure mafia.

Vote: Eevee

That's L-1.  Eevee, anything else to add?

[cayvie]

vote: eevee

That's L-1.  Eevee, anything else to add?

nope!

[shraeye]

wow, and now we go to night without a solid plan in place, that was a bad move for town, Dsell, voting to L-1.

Ashersky, charge up lekkit. Lekkit, get jorbles.

i can't think of anything else off the top of my head.

[shraeye]

ftl, lekkit is animal, you should investigate him.  I'm a vegetable if you think you need the commute, but I think the vig is a better bet for town.

[Dsell]

We have a solid plan.

Shraeye, you do nothing. You're a tree, supposedly. (Actually, you'll try to kill, but aside from that.)

Cayvie'll give fish.

I'll do whatever I'm able to do based on what I get from Eevee.

Lekkit'll bring back Jorbles to block the kill tomorrow.

Ashersky'll recharge Lekkit again.

Ftl will investigate someone, presumably an animal someone, to get a one-shot of something good.

Jo will doctor whoever he sees fit to doctor.

And that's everybody, right?. We've been over all of this before.

[ashersky]

He could doctor me, to keep me around for another recharge.

[shraeye]

best to let him decide and to make mafia have to guess.  I trust joth's judgement.

[Dsell]

He could doctor me, to keep me around for another recharge.

I doctored you because mafia didn't know they were dealing with a doctor and so tried to take out the most obvtown and threatening player (you), but tonight they know they're dealing with a doctor so there'll be some WIFOM about who they try (he tries) to kill.

[eHalcyon]

Thread Locked while I tally / write flavour...

[eHalcyon]

Observe the wild Eevee in its natural habitat.  As you are no doubt aware, Eevees have been critically endangered for years now.  Pollution and industrialization, especially in the Unova region, have destroyed their natural woodland habitats.  Many believe that wild Eevees are now extinct.

Captive Eevees have been lost to a different threat -- unnaturally induced evolution induced.  Instead of being allowed to evolve naturally into an Umbreon or Espeon, various radioactive stones are often used to corrupt Eevee genetics.

Now, as we get closer, we will want to be very quiet.  Ahh, isn't he a beauty?  Look at that shiny, lustrous coat.  The metallic silver fur is--

--Wait, what?  Crikey, that's not an Eevee!  It's some odd Steel type creature.  Looks kind of... Evil.  Let's get out of here, mates!

...

Whoa.  No.  Oh no, what's that?  It... it looks like a hand.  Bursting up out of the ground.  RUN, BOYS.  BUT KEEP ROLLING.


Vote Count 5.3

Eevee (4): Zombie jotheonah, ashersky, Dsell, cayvie

Not voting (4): Eevee, ftl, shraeye, Lekkit

Eevee has been lynched.  He was an Evil League of Evil-aligned Sartorial Cyborg.

Lekkit has died.  He was a Town-aligned Insane Doctor.

Lekkit has been resurrected.  However, he looks sickly and will not likely survive for very long without support.

Night 5 has begun. Night actions are due in 48 hours by 11:30pm MST on Friday, November 9.

THREAD LOCKED.

[eHalcyon]

This Thread is Now Diamonds.





More like 40 hours?




Dsell has been killed. 



He was a town-aligned External Hard Drive.




The shredded remains of jotheonah's corpse crumble into dust. 



Bits of salty red meat are left behind.




Insomniac has been retrieved from the Recycle Bin. 



However, he looks sickly and fragmented and will not likely survive for very long.




Lekkit remains alive and... well.



Glad to see a smile on your face.




Galzria sends his regards once more:

I wish you all luck,
I've no more to add.
We've stopped lynching "Good"
And started with "Bad"

We're on the right course,
Just one "Evil" left,
Though Ash or Dsell
I've knowledge bereft.

Shraeye could still be
The last one as well,
In 'flavourful games'
Stumps can come from hell

Trust ftl
And trust Lekkit too
That's all that I've got
.....

Day 6 Start

Vote Count 6.1

Not voting (4): ashersky, cayvie, ftl, shraeye, Zombie Insomniac, Zombie Lekkit

With 4 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.

Lynch deadline: Friday, November 23, 3:00pm MST



Thread Unlocked!

[Lekkit]

This is pretty cool. I got another shot of Alive last night. Ash, was this you? Also I guess Dsell ressed Insomniac.

[Lekkit]

And town should vote with the zombies.

[Lekkit]

On my phone now, will post more later.

[Insomniac]

Well helllllllo town

[cayvie]

hey insomniac, here's a series of GENUINE REAL QUOTES from my N1 serial killing QT:

oh my god what a fiasco

archetype

hahahahahahahaha

okay who do i send my fish to now. i want to make sure they live. i want them to be town so they target scum, i think.

i didn't click the link (you're kinda asking people to post in a locked thread)

okay

here's the action

give RED FISH to Insomniac

wait wait wait

counting on Insomniac to survive night 1 is lolz

give RED FISH to Galzria

[ashersky]

This is pretty cool. I got another shot of Alive last night. Ash, was this you? Also I guess Dsell ressed Insomniac.

Yes, I did that.

[ashersky]

Also, I have the red fish.

[cayvie]

Also, I have the red fish.

treat her well and she will be your true friend

[cayvie]

oh, it looks like Dsell went through with his stated plan of not using the blue fish, even though I quoted the part in my role where it was like "If a player does not (attempt to) use their Fish on the night that they have it (i.e. the night after you target them), they die."

[cayvie]

hehehehe inzombiac

[Insomniac]

Phone posting still so more later but. I do NOT know who no doctored

[Lekkit]

Basically what I think we should do, but not without everyone getting heard is lynch cayvie and fish Shraeye. I would also like to know what Ins power is. And ashersky should definately charge up Ins, as it would give him another day, just like I was given one extra day today. That way we'll be in a sweet majority tomorrow too.

[ashersky]

So given I have two of the powers needed tonight (I assume fishing someone means passing them my red fish?) is there a doc left to protect me?

[Lekkit]

Hmmm... You can't fish and charge at yhe same time? I guess another day an night with Ins is worth more, but loosing you would be bad as you are one of my top town reads.

[ftl]

I investigated lekkit and can vig now!

[ashersky]

Hmmm... You can't fish and charge at yhe same time? I guess another day an night with Ins is worth more, but loosing you would be bad as you are one of my top town reads.

No, I can do both.  I just don't want to die, seeing as I can continue to charge people up.

[Lekkit]

Oh, right. Forgot about that. If everything adds upp and shraeye is the last scum we could probably win today, then.

If we lynch cayvie, fish and vig shraeye there should be no scum left. However, if shraeye is not tomorrow would be me, asher or ftl.

[Lekkit]

Then you should definately charge Ins up.

Ins, what are your powers?

[Insomniac]

My powers are.

Flavour name: Electric Shepherd
Role name: Dreaming God
Alignment: Town

Abilities:

Life is but a dream, and your dream consists mostly of static and steel wool.  You are the Electric Shepherd.  You have a large herd of Electric Sheep. 

Each Sheep is programmed with a special 1-shot ability.   Most of these have some large-scale effect which may be positive or negative.  You must choose one to activate each night (if you don't, it will be randomized).  You are not told what they do, if anything at all.  Most (if not all) powers will be announced somehow in the morning flavour.

Your sheep powers (in no particular order) are:

Edgy Machine Pacifier -- a sheep for the restless android.
Super Solar Panels -- a shot of energy when you’re running low on juice.
Full Moon Simulator -- it sure is pretty!
Cryogenic Technology -- some call it madness, we call it progress.
Electric Fleece -- quite stylish, for machines and meatbags alike.
Android Market -- supply and demand.
Android v 4.0 -- sounds delicious.
Surround Sound -- turn it up to 11.
Electronic Polling Station -- for your electoral needs.
Power Cycle -- did you try rebooting it?
Memory Stick -- make up your mind already.
Download -- there’s an app for that.

[Insomniac]

I used surround sound the night I died hoping to become an IC, but instead made you all here Surprise Surprise

[cayvie]

Oh, right. Forgot about that. If everything adds upp and shraeye is the last scum we could probably win today, then.

If we lynch cayvie, fish and vig shraeye there should be no scum left. However, if shraeye is not tomorrow would be me, asher or ftl.

hm, i was thinking ashersky was final scum. i suppose if shraeye is then this plan of yours should work.

[ashersky]

Oh, right. Forgot about that. If everything adds upp and shraeye is the last scum we could probably win today, then.

If we lynch cayvie, fish and vig shraeye there should be no scum left. However, if shraeye is not tomorrow would be me, asher or ftl.

hm, i was thinking ashersky was final scum. i suppose if shraeye is then this plan of yours should work.

That's funny.  I had you or Shraeye as final scum.  I guess we go Shraeye first?

[cayvie]

That's funny.  I had you or Shraeye as final scum.  I guess we go Shraeye first?

you still had doubts that i was SK??

[cayvie]

i can't kill at night, just saying :/

[Lekkit]

No offense, cayvie but when you come with sreategic advise I don't really listen.

[cayvie]

No offense, cayvie but when you come with sreategic advise I don't really listen.

hey, of course i'll say anything to get myself to survive another night.

true things help more, though.

[Insomniac]

Btw I was choked that Jo appeared to be listenin to shraeye yesterday because it seemed like a huge load of don't kill me I want to win.

Now that my powers are out I'd like some talk about which I should use tonight. I'm leaning towards reboot or super solar panels. I think both have a chance at keepin me alive or making me permenently alive

[shraeye]

Oh, right. Forgot about that. If everything adds upp and shraeye is the last scum we could probably win today, then.

If we lynch cayvie, fish and vig shraeye there should be no scum left. However, if shraeye is not tomorrow would be me, asher or ftl.

Ack, sorry. It seems that I'll have very little time in the next few days, and don't really have the energy to defend myself since everyone seems convinced I'm scum.  I'm ok with the plan right now, cayvie is scum so that's 1-1. And as long as Lekkit comes back tomorrow (he seems convinced he will be) and nothing crazy happens, we'll be at lylo and likely to win.  I was convinced the last mafia was Dsell, but now am less sure of myself.  I was sure both asher and ftl were town.  I think it must be ftl, because I'm still convinced that Ashersky's use of his powers is completely inconsistent with a scum wincon.  ftl's towniness seems to come from Galzria's read on him, and the fact that Major Stanley shouldn't be a scum role.

vote: cayvie

[Lekkit]

eHal, if there is one scum alive and two zombie players, how would that play out? Does it take 1 to lynch?

[cayvie]

Oh, right. Forgot about that. If everything adds upp and shraeye is the last scum we could probably win today, then.

If we lynch cayvie, fish and vig shraeye there should be no scum left. However, if shraeye is not tomorrow would be me, asher or ftl.

Ack, sorry. It seems that I'll have very little time in the next few days, and don't really have the energy to defend myself since everyone seems convinced I'm scum.  I'm ok with the plan right now, cayvie is scum so that's 1-1. And as long as Lekkit comes back tomorrow (he seems convinced he will be) and nothing crazy happens, we'll be at lylo and likely to win.  I was convinced the last mafia was Dsell, but now am less sure of myself.  I was sure both asher and ftl were town.  I think it must be ftl, because I'm still convinced that Ashersky's use of his powers is completely inconsistent with a scum wincon.  ftl's towniness seems to come from Galzria's read on him, and the fact that Major Stanley shouldn't be a scum role.

vote: cayvie

yeah, of course you'd like this plan

[eHalcyon]

eHal, if there is one scum alive and two zombie players, how would that play out? Does it take 1 to lynch?

In that situation, scum would already have won.

[Lekkit]

Ok. I'm pretty confident about my plan that I stated earlier. I think Ins should use Solar Power in case that would perma-revive him. Otherwise I think he should try another power and be charged up by ashersky who should definately also target shraeye with the fish.

And we should start by lynching cayvie. I have heard no other plan, bud I'd like to hear some other thoughts on this.

[Lekkit]

The fact that it's been so quiet here reads to me that town has nothing more to add, and scum can't really say anything else.

[ashersky]

I'm good with vote: Cayvie.

[ashersky]

unvote

[ashersky]

Yeah, that was L-1...not quite ready for that, without hearing more from zombies, etc.

[ashersky]

Lekkit--why charge ins and not you?

[cayvie]

The fact that it's been so quiet here reads to me that town has nothing more to add, and scum can't really say anything else.

haha yeah... i legit don't know who the last mafia is

if it's ashersky i think he's got 2 kills, so there's that

but it might not be

[cayvie]

sorry for not putting up more of a fight here

it's just that even if you guys decide somehow to lynch someone else today, i still can't win

if you lynch scum, town lynches me tomorrow
if you lynch town, scum kills town and then we're in that 3-player scenario where it's best for everyone to no-lynch, and then night actions decide it--either for scum or town, as i can't kill anyone.

haha

and since i don't particularly care to kingmake, i'm kinda letting you guys do whatever.

[Lekkit]

Thing is this. If we lynch you and kill scum during the night, we win. If we don't we lose.

However, ftl's plays have been towny, and so has ahser's. Shraeye has contributed with information, but mostly when he has been under suspicion. And I can tell that asher is at least telling some truths about his power, and that is the charging up ability. And if both him and Shraeye tells the truth about his power asher can't be scum, because that would be almost as broken as a bulletproof, lynchproof, investigation immune, ninja strongman mafia.

There is the possibility that there are two mafia left and we haven't been endgamed yet since you could still win or there could be some kind of weird draw.

[Lekkit]

@cayvie: Yeah, I get that. UNLESS you are Evil League of Evil-aligned and keep on trolling us.

[shraeye]

However, ftl's plays have been towny, and so has ahser's. Shraeye has contributed with information, but mostly when he has been under suspicion. And I can tell that asher is at least telling some truths about his power, and that is the charging up ability. And if both him and Shraeye tells the truth about his power asher can't be scum, because that would be almost as broken as a bulletproof, lynchproof, investigation immune, ninja strongman mafia.

There is the possibility that there are two mafia left and we haven't been endgamed yet since you could still win or there could be some kind of weird draw.

I'm telling the truth about my power, no incentive to lie there.  I figure that asher's use of his power has been very towny.  As I explained before, if he were scum, he'd be charging up his scummates, and if he had a restriction and had to charge up townies, then mafia's NK should go to the people he just charged up. 

Actually, now that I type that, apparently that did happen with Jorbles, but didn't happen to me night 1; but actually I don't know if I got shot night 1 or not, as I also never received a mod-notification when ftl said he shot me;  if I've been shot twice, then I should be at zero shots, and flavor would have said I was a stump (so I know I haven't been shot twice).  But if I'm using that as a reason that asher could be mafia, then ftl would have also lied about shooting me and is scum, and that would mean I'm the only town left, except for the Zombies.  I don't know what Insom's powers do, but if asher and ftl were both scum, I'm pretty sure we'd be endgamed now.

Anyway, that train of thought ends up with me being certain that ashersky is town.  Ftl I'm sure must be the last unknown scum then; Lekkit could be right and possibly cayvie AND ftl are both ELoE-aligned, an SK without a night kill is pretty strange.  I'm trying to figure out what about ftl's plays have been making us think he's towny.  Night one he investigates Robz and gains a commute; night 2 he investigates Lekkit and gains a vig; night 3 he commutes, night 4 he vigs me, night 5 he investigates Lekkit and can vig again.  I don't really see how this is pro-town.  Commuting I agree is a strange power to give scum, especially because no town has claimed vig powers; Rolecop (what he gets from mineral) is a classy mafia power especially in RMM games with many powers around.  The extra vig-kill is obviously beneficial for either faction.  But then again, we haven't any *proof* of ftl using his vig powers as I receive no indication of being hurt until I'm at 0-deathproofs, and we have no *proof* of ftl using commuter either; so these powers could all be made up.

[Lekkit]

Wouldn't it be much safer to say he had an investigating role that just investigated? If his claimed powers are true, it wouldn't really make that much sense. He hasn't targeted one of the scummies except for cayvie. Had he done so, he would've gotten what he wanted, be it a vig shot, rolecop shot or a commute. I would probably do that day 1 or 2 as scum. Knowing what you'll get helps planning. Which scum loves to do.

Also, a minor thing that points us to Shraeye as our last scum, if cayvie is not ELoE aligned is that ELoE then would have 1 Animal, 1 Mineral and 1 Plant. Pretty symmetric.

[shraeye]

Wouldn't it be much safer to say he had an investigating role that just investigated? If his claimed powers are true, it wouldn't really make that much sense. He hasn't targeted one of the scummies except for cayvie. Had he done so, he would've gotten what he wanted, be it a vig shot, rolecop shot or a commute. I would probably do that day 1 or 2 as scum. Knowing what you'll get helps planning. Which scum loves to do.

Also, a minor thing that points us to Shraeye as our last scum, if cayvie is not ELoE aligned is that ELoE then would have 1 Animal, 1 Mineral and 1 Plant. Pretty symmetric.

All these are good points, and they'd probably convince me except that if ftl is town, then asher is scum.  I think asher's play is much more obviously town.  I'm still cool with the plan to lynch cayvie, and then fish/vig me at night.   It doesn't matter if I'm around tomorrow as long as we can still lynch the final scum.  If killing me makes it easier to focus on the other two, then I'm ok with that.  I'm just making sure that it's completely safe, and that you'll be able to identify scum tomorrow. 

I'm worried that if ftl has a vig AND a NK, then he can vig me, asher fishes me, he NKs asher, and then it's only you and him tomorrow.   You still have some Alive, right?  Do you ahve to use it yourself, or can you bring back another zomebie so it's 2 zombies vs one scum tomorrow?

[Lekkit]

There will be two zombies tomorrow. Why aren't you following the thread?

[shraeye]

Aha, I missed that.  But eHalcyon also said that scum would have already won, and I missed taht as well.  So that is now a worry of mine.  If we lynch cayvie, and I die in the night from ftl's vig and ashersky's fish, then ftl NKing ashersky lets scum win.

unvote

[ftl]

I'm not scum

why is shraeye concluding that if I'm town then asher is scum?  oh wait lol I just looked back at the list of people still alive and it's just me, shraeye, cayvie, ash. So yeah, that would make sense from his point of view.

Really it just makes me think he's scum tho, since I'm town and everyone seems to agree that ash is town too

I'm ok with lynch cayvie doublenk shraeye

[cayvie]

wouldn't it be a safer plan--if you guys decide to lynch me--for:

ftl vig shraeye
ash fish ftl?

that way, if ftl is scum, town still wins.

[cayvie]

vote: no lynch

[Lekkit]

That would be a good plan. If we had a roleblocker to prevent you from handing out fish.

[cayvie]

That would be a good plan. If we had a roleblocker to prevent you from handing out fish.

the plan involves lynching me

[Lekkit]

Oh. Thing is this, if Shraeye is telling the truth about him turning into a stump, he will live through the night if we do that. And if he's scum we loose. So basically I'm thinking it's more likely that he is scum than ftl.

[eHalcyon]

Vote Count 6.2

no lynch (1): cayvie

Not voting (3): ashersky, ftl, shraeye, Zombie Insomniac, Zombie Lekkit

With 4 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.

Lynch deadline: Friday, November 23, 3:00pm MST

[eHalcyon]

To clarify an earlier post:

Zombies are "alive" for most intents and purposes.  However, players cannot vote for a zombie and they will not count towards win conditions.  If there is one zombie and one player left and they are not on the same faction, the truly living player's faction will win (barring strange win conditions). 

Otherwise it would be a guaranteed win for the zombies, since the living player could not vote for the zombie.  They would be helpless.

I guess that would be thematic for zombies, but that's beside the point.

[Insomniac]

To clarify an earlier post:

Zombies are "alive" for most intents and purposes.  However, players cannot vote for a zombie and they will not count towards win conditions.  If there is one zombie and one player left and they are not on the same faction, the truly living player's faction will win (barring strange win conditions). 

Otherwise it would be a guaranteed win for the zombies, since the living player could not vote for the zombie.  They would be helpless.

I guess that would be thematic for zombies, but that's beside the point.

BRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAINS

[ftl]

wouldn't it be a safer plan--if you guys decide to lynch me--for:

ftl vig shraeye
ash fish ftl?

that way, if ftl is scum, town still wins.

no. In that case, I die, Shraeye doesn't die and gets to NK ash, tomorrow starts with shraeye being the only one alive.

vote: cayvie

lets do this, lets lynch cayvie and and then I kill shraeye and hopefully ash is town and kills shraeye too and then we win.

If ash is scum and gets to kill both shraeye and me then he probably wins. If ash is scum but doesn't get to nk twice, well, then shraeye will die and nobody else will and tomorrow the zombies decide.

[cayvie]

shraeye, if you're scum reading this, vote no lynch and put us to night! quick!

it's the only way you survive.

[shraeye]

Vote: cayvie

Ash, I'm banking on you to take the right action.

[cayvie]

Vote: cayvie

Ash, I'm banking on you to take the right action.

shraeye, lol

pretending to be town isn't going to get you any points

cmon dude

with 4 alive, it takes 2 to no lynch

this is the only way you live.

[ftl]

with 4 alive, it takes a majority - 3 - to do anything, including no lynch, doesn't it?

[cayvie]

with 4 alive, it takes a majority - 3 - to do anything, including no lynch, doesn't it?

no.

at least not in normal games that allow no lynch.

this is so that, in games with X mafia and X confirmed town alive during the day, the day doesn't just last forever--this is what endgame situations are predicated on.

[Lekkit]

Vote: cayvie

[cayvie]

yeahhhhhh

[Lekkit]

asher, charge Ins. I've got two shots of alive.

[cayvie]

can't say i've never been lynched anymore

[Voltgloss]

THREAD LOCKED

And incidentally, "no lynch" requires a majority vote, same as lynch.  See the intro rules post; also see http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=No_Lynch.

Endgame situations with X scum and X town don't have "days that last forever" because they would hit the day's lynch deadline without a consensus.  That doesn't have anything to do with a majority of the town deciding to vote for "no lynch."

[eHalcyon]

"Is it... is it a glitch?"

"There have been inconsistencies.  And, well, the system isn't as stable as we'd anticipated."

"What's that supposed to mean?"

"Look, I could bore you with all the technical details, give you the equations and the theory and the inexplicable results that make no sense in the context of modern science.  Or I can tell you that we have no idea what's happening now."

"Can you fix it?"

"Pretty soon, I doubt there will be anything left to fix..."


Vote Count 6.3

cayvie (3): ftl, shraeye, Zombie Lekkit

no lynch (1): cayvie

Not voting (1): ashersky, Zombie Insomniac

cayvie has been lynched.  She was the Serial Killer, Red Herring.
(I probably should have made ELOE purple to start.)

Night 6 has begun.  All night actions are due in 48 hours by 5:30pm MST on Thursday, November 15.

THREAD LOCKED.

[eHalcyon]

They say that the facility was abandoned long ago. Certainly it has an air of the ancient about it, despite being a modern construction. The building itself is overgrown with vines and shrubbery, the untended lawn is wild with weeds, and the electric fence has long since rusted beyond repair. In short, it is a mess. Stories of the place circulate among the town residents -- was it the laboratory of a mad scientist? the bunker for a classified government program? an old laser tag arena? -- but most agree that these are all just urban legends. Ghosts in the shell. Reveries of a mechanical age.

But then there is the drone of engines whirring back to life. A low, electric hum rises up. The cracked glass panels on the roof of the building slowly turn to face the sun.

If the town residents look carefully now, they will see a figure sitting at the base of one of those massive panels, playing a fiddle on the roof. It is eHalcyon, and he is singing softly to himself in Galzria's voice:

Whedon says
Love Zombies
Gonna go
Running

But watch out
For Romney
Apocolypse
Coming

With my Charge Ray
I will zap!
The world.

With my Charge Ray
I will find the time to
Fill you up to

To the top
Of your skills
So you can
Do some more.

But watch out
Someone kills
Who is it?
Read flavour.

With my Charge Ray
I will Zap!
Your pain.

It's not a black glove or an ice cream
Made in waffle cone
I just think you need time to know

That Evil is as Evil does
They like to kill us all because

They'll bend the world to their will
Maybe that's enough, but still

They want more
Rule the world
All of them
Every day

Ashersky
ftl
Or Lekkit
Maybe Shray...

With my Charge Ray
I will ZAP! -

A flash of light erupts around the building, engulfing the entire property. The earth trembles. The ground cracks and opens up.

An arm bursts up from a patch of daisies. Then a second arm. And a third, and a fourth. These four arms dig themselves out, revealing two rotting bodies. Galzria and jotheonah have returned from the grave once more.

As these two undead creatures ponder their renewed life, they are joined by Insomniac and Lekkit. Lekkit seems to be surprisingly hale, if slightly decomposed. The other three look sickly and will not likely survive for very long without support.

Has the zombie apocalypse begun? Not far from the mob is a far less animated corpse -- ftl has been killed. A medal on his chest identifies him as town-aligned Major-General Stanley. His body sinks into the soil and a wild carpet of grass swallows him whole.

In all the turmoil, an old, gnarled tree begins to fall. Something has caused it to snap near its base. The trunk of the tree crashes to the ground with a shudder, but the tree is not uprooted. Holding fast to the earth, shraeye has become a tree stump.

The four zombies look around at the wreckage and groan. Time to clean up...


Day 7 Start

Vote Count 7.1

Not voting (2): ashersky, shraeye, Zombie Galzria, Zombie Insomniac, Zombie jotheonah, Zombie Lekkit

With 2 alive, it takes 2 to lynch.

Lynch deadline: Tuesday, November 27, 9:00pm MDT

Thread Unlocked!

[Galzria]

For reference:

Flavour name: Motivational Speaker Bot
Role name: Recharger/Mailman
Alignment: Town

Abilities:

Everyone is wonderful and they all deserve to know it.  That’s what your programming says, at least.  Your sole purpose in this world is to record motivational speeches for those less upbeat than you.  Not everyone can run at 15 GHz, but you can certainly try to get them there!

Each night, you may target one other player, living or dead.  You may send a short private message (we’ll say 255 characters but I may be flexible) to that player via the moderator (that is, send it to me and I will pass it along).  The moderator reserves the right to redact parts of the message.  Your identity will not be revealed by the mod, though you may include it in the message if you wish.  In fact, you may put anything in your message so long as it stays within the character limit.  Or you could send nothing at all, if you wish to remain silent (but that wouldn’t be very motivational, now would it?).

If that player has an X-shot ability, they will be so moved by your message (or magnificent silence) that they gain an additional shot.  This only works on actual abilities -- it will not charge up gadgets/buttons/whatever.  They don’t need gadgets to be awesome!

Flavour name: Ancient Oak Tree
Role name: 1-Shot Deathproof
Alignment: Town

Ability:

You were raised on sunlight and water.  Except the sunlight was really gamma radiation.  And the water was really the blood of those departed.

Whatever the case, you are pretty much the most anguished Oak tree around.  It’s a little harder to judge if you consider all deciduous trees, and certainly there are some really crazy conifers out there, but out of all the Oak trees you are definitely the most miserable.  Well, top three.  Definitely top three in your home forest.  Too bad death won't even take the pain away.

When you would be killed in any way, you lose one shot of your Deathproof instead.  Flavour will make note of when you become a Tree Stump (it will be a little more flavourful than that, of course).  When you have 0 Shots remaining, you become a Tree Stump, at which point you may truly be killed.  Even as a Stump you may still vote.


stuff thats useful:
i got ashersky's boost night 1
i got no update from eHalcyon on night 2
i got vanilla icecream (from Joth presumably) night 3

[Galzria]

On Ashersky:

Points of protown play:

Eevee was scum, and claimed he would be killed if he targeted player X - Player X was claimed by Ashersky. If they were both scum, this whole situation wouldn't make sense.

He pushed Eevee's lynch mercilessly, claiming to know 100% Eevee was scum. To the point that he even started to come up with crazy theories that I might not be confirmed town because I wanted to lynch CF.

He has recharged many a town player, a seemingly pro-town thing to do.

Points of scum play:

Eevee was scum, and his claim was in #2050. We know his claim was "doctored" (ha!). However Eevee DID know there was a mailman in the game. If they were scum together, the whole "If I target the mailman" claim could've been planned together since D1.

Ashersky KNEW Eevee was scum. He claims this is because sent Eevee a letter that Eevee claimed not to get. But if Ashersky was town, why would scum Eevee deny having received it? All it does is set up a "me or him" situation,which ends in 1-1 trade at best (if we lynch town!Ash first). However, if they're both scum, this sets up a direct bus, with whichever side winning out gaining massive town cred (as Ash HAS received thusfar).

The fact that I nailed scum CF then makes the gambit of scum/scum bus really hurt, which would explain Ash flipping out over my push of a CF lynch. Instead of two ELoE left with 1 seemingly townie, there would only be 1 ELoE Left.

Thoughts?

Gonna go over Shraeye in a bit.

[Insomniac]

Obviously it's extremely un zombie err town to vote now but would vote for Shraeye in the absense of anything else

[Galzria]

On Shraeye:

Points of townplay:

He's absolutely been willing to go with the consensus of the town, even when it's directly detrimental to himself. He's always offered other suggestions, but accepted the decisions without much fight. This is VERY not like him. He tends to be much more confrontational when he believes something.

He hasn't tried at all to derail any scum lynches, and has seemed a little more genuinely "uninformed" than Ashersky.

He's obviously a tree, as claimed.

Points of scum play:

He's taken a hell of a lot to kill - more than I think I would naturally expect from a townie.

He's been a bit TOO nonchalant at times.

His posted claim reads much more scummy to me - a tree raised around all that negativity I would lean towards believing is scum.

He's a plant, which would make scum 1 plant, 1 animal, 1 mineral.

Thoughts here?

[Galzria]

Obviously it's extremely un zombie err town to vote now but would vote for Shraeye in the absense of anything else

I'll tell you honestly... I'm leaning Ashersky. Don't vote yet obviously, I want to do some more research.

Actually, let that be a standard order to Zombies: Do Not Vote!

[Galzria]

Convincing scum it's the right move is not possible, or worth the effort.

Arg, this is beginning to feel more like day 2 of ZM2, where we had the chance for a flawless town victory, and instead of thinking slowly and making sure everybody understood things, people just up and lynched me since "a win was guaranteed."  Well a win isn't guaranteed here, I'm not scum, and I really want to try to figure out how town can best win.  It's not obvious to me that leaving cayvie alive is the right move.  It's possible that you're missing something that I might not miss.  Can you explain the reasoning to me, or is this just going to be another pile of frustration?

I'm not trying to be difficult, and I'm willing to be lynched or shot if I can see why it is of benefit for town, I just want to make sure that our outlook for day 5 is accurate and safe before town high-fives their way into a losing scenario.

For reference, it's conversations like this that really give me a genuine feel for Shraeye. I can't find anything from Ashersky that feels this... Real. His whole thing with Eevee felt SO forced...

[shraeye]

I am just floored that ashersky is mafia, I frankly don't even understand what happened last night. 

But, when I review his claimed night actions, I can definitely see scum undertones that I couldn't see earlier because I was too stubborn with my reads.
He charged me up night one, so I was at two deathproofs, and since then I've expressed a town read on him. Buuuut, apparently he chose me because I already had a slight town read on him

message I got from asher with charge up:
"You are a beautiful flower, and like your growing town reads, are blossoming.  Continue to trust your instincts, and the good people of the town will follow."

asher verifies that this was the message:
I was cryptic and didn't sign it.  He listed me as one of his biggest town reads on D1, so that was the clue within the message.

so maybe he was looking for a town-buddy to be his "sidekick" defending him all the way to the end.  Well I definitely defended him until almost the very end, and he would have won too, if I hadn't received one more shot of deathproof somehow.  I think it might have had something to do with Insomniac's powers, what power did you end up using last night Insom?

Night 2, asher was the reason for the joth/jorbles scoopcount-scandal, having charged Jorbles, who also died that night.  Night 3 he charged up Eevee, who is now known scum, but it also blew up into this weird thing where Eevee claimed not to get a message.  I think Galz put this into words best, it doesn't make sense, if asher is town, for scumeevee to try to do a 1-1 trade by creating a conflict.  But if asher is eevee's scumpartner, than this could be a coordinated event to buy towncred.  Night 4 and 5, asher charged Lekkit, which is a town play but it was also a forced action as town demanded it.  If he had done something else, he would have attracted much more suspicion.

God, I think all along I gave waaay to much towncred to ashersky just because I knew he was charging people up.

[shraeye]

I also agree with Galz's directive to zombies.  Don't vote hastily.  Remember it only takes 2 to lynch even though there's a lot of potential votes.

[ashersky]

Vote: Shraeye, since I'm town, and we're the only two left alive.  Funny it's up to us to convince zombies.

I sent the red fish to Shraeye, as planned.  I tried to recharge FTL, in case I died and he didn't during the night, and I wasn't convinced Insom would be around the next day (nor could the mod confirm it for me).

I will say this is the fakest thing I've ever seen Shraeye say:

I am just floored that ashersky is mafia, I frankly don't even understand what happened last night.

At any rate, on the Eevee fight, really think through how that makes any sense if I was scum.  Also think through how it would make any sense that I would not recharge all the scum buddies every night until night.  And why I would even admit to being the recharger.

Clearly mafiaShraeye will vote me, because who else is he going to vote for?  So it's up to the zombies.  I think my play has been pro-town.

[ashersky]

I also agree with Galz's directive to zombies.  Don't vote hastily.  Remember it only takes 2 to lynch even though there's a lot of potential votes.

Also, this, and other posts like it, to me seem like mafia trying to seem as townie as possible by being "careful."

[Galzria]

Alright, this is a big point of contention for me right now, so I would like thoughts on -just this-:

Each night, he charged up town. The only exception to this is the night where he claimed to have charged up Eevee - something Eevee counterclaimed.

Under what circumstances does it make sense for SCUM Eevee to counterclaim TOWN Ashersky?

I've already addressed adequately (I think) why Scum/Scum would play this out, although feel free to discuss that as well.

[ashersky]

Alright, this is a big point of contention for me right now, so I would like thoughts on -just this-:

Each night, he charged up town. The only exception to this is the night where he claimed to have charged up Eevee - something Eevee counterclaimed.

Under what circumstances does it make sense for SCUM Eevee to counterclaim TOWN Ashersky?

I've already addressed adequately (I think) why Scum/Scum would play this out, although feel free to discuss that as well.

I'd point out that we now know I charged up scum on N1, based on reads from that first day.  But the rest of your comment stands.

I'd also throw in that SCUM Eevee could have been trying to throw suspicion my way to help out SCUM Shraeye.  Which it clearly has done.

[Insomniac]

I don't see why scum ash would charge up town lekkit who is reviving conf town Galz/Jo/insom

[Insomniac]

Which means in turn scum wanting three of the most veteran players alive

[ashersky]

Which means in turn scum wanting three of the most veteran players alive

Most veteran TOWN players. 

I'm town.

[Galzria]

I don't see why scum ash would charge up town lekkit who is reviving conf town Galz/Jo/insom

He has to charge up somebody, and he's only charged scum "once" on a night of contention. If Eevee/Ash are both scum, then that night never happened - meaning he's ONLY ever hit town - which in and of itself stands out, making me well believe he could have a restriction on who he can target.

[ashersky]

For reference, it's conversations like this that really give me a genuine feel for Shraeye. I can't find anything from Ashersky that feels this... Real. His whole thing with Eevee felt SO forced...

I'll also mention, the positive vibes people have on Shraeye seem to have to do with his posting, tone, etc. as noted above.  He's saying all the right things, but his role, his actions haven't matched.

Look at my actions, though, which have been clearly town.  Actions should speak louder than words here.  The actions I've taken should be real enough for you, Galz.

[ashersky]

I don't see why scum ash would charge up town lekkit who is reviving conf town Galz/Jo/insom

He has to charge up somebody, and he's only charged scum "once" on a night of contention. If Eevee/Ash are both scum, then that night never happened - meaning he's ONLY ever hit town - which in and of itself stands out, making me well believe he could have a restriction on who he can target.

Actually, I don't have to charge up somebody.  I had the option of not sending a message, and actually wasn't going to the night of the Eevee charge.

That's one reason I was so vehement when Eevee said he didn't receive it was the back and forth when it came to sending that message.  I'm obviously glad I did send it, because it really opened up the game, helping us find one scum at least.

[Galzria]

Alright, this is a big point of contention for me right now, so I would like thoughts on -just this-:

Each night, he charged up town. The only exception to this is the night where he claimed to have charged up Eevee - something Eevee counterclaimed.

Under what circumstances does it make sense for SCUM Eevee to counterclaim TOWN Ashersky?

I've already addressed adequately (I think) why Scum/Scum would play this out, although feel free to discuss that as well.

I'd point out that we now know I charged up scum on N1, based on reads from that first day.  But the rest of your comment stands.

I'd also throw in that SCUM Eevee could have been trying to throw suspicion my way to help out SCUM Shraeye.  Which it clearly has done.

That second comment is unfair, as I would contest that has certainly NOT been the case - even during that time frame, I was MUCH more likely to trust you - even directing the town to start shooting Shraeye. It hasn't been untilhere in a 1 on 1 situation between you two in particular that I've given it any weight or thought - and you can't have expected Eevee to believe things would wind up like this on the final day - so it wasn't some grand scheme.

[Galzria]

Don't get me wrong - I've obviously believed Shraeye to be scum since my last incarnation - but I'm doing due diligence in running everything over, since it's pick right or lose. That's why I'm weighing pro's and con's on you both, and encouraging conversation. I'm hoping to get a few more Zombies in here soon.

[ashersky]

Alright, this is a big point of contention for me right now, so I would like thoughts on -just this-:

Each night, he charged up town. The only exception to this is the night where he claimed to have charged up Eevee - something Eevee counterclaimed.

Under what circumstances does it make sense for SCUM Eevee to counterclaim TOWN Ashersky?

I've already addressed adequately (I think) why Scum/Scum would play this out, although feel free to discuss that as well.

I'd point out that we now know I charged up scum on N1, based on reads from that first day.  But the rest of your comment stands.

I'd also throw in that SCUM Eevee could have been trying to throw suspicion my way to help out SCUM Shraeye.  Which it clearly has done.

That second comment is unfair, as I would contest that has certainly NOT been the case - even during that time frame, I was MUCH more likely to trust you - even directing the town to start shooting Shraeye. It hasn't been untilhere in a 1 on 1 situation between you two in particular that I've given it any weight or thought - and you can't have expected Eevee to believe things would wind up like this on the final day - so it wasn't some grand scheme.

Fair enough point, especially on somehow knowing how the final day would look.  Shraeye certainly knew yesterday how it would play out.  Look at #2381, where Shraeye continues his town read on me but starts to cast suspicion.  And #2383, where he is fine with double NK on him because he knew he'd survive and be in this position today.

[ashersky]

Don't get me wrong - I've obviously believed Shraeye to be scum since my last incarnation - but I'm doing due diligence in running everything over, since it's pick right or lose. That's why I'm weighing pro's and con's on you both, and encouraging conversation. I'm hoping to get a few more Zombies in here soon.

You are right on this, and deliberation is good.

I think in the end, Shraeye will vote for me and it'll come down to a zombie vote.  That's the safe play, since it won't give scumShraeye the opportunity to hammer for the win.

[Galzria]

I'll say this: Neither of you get townie points for being active. Ash in the 130's, Shraeye in the 170's. Joth has been dead most the game and is in the 170's! I'm at ~250, heck, even Robz almost has 120!

That said, this game is an outlier anyway as CF and Eevee both had 220+.

[Galzria]

Points against Shraeye:

He was really against the massclaim, which directly led to a number of scum deaths, and he really wanted to lynch the claimed SK as soon as Cayvie came forward. Pushing it on multiple occasions. He was also open to a Lekkit lynch, although at the time I thought Lekkit was likely scum as well.

[Galzria]

However, I have a REALLY hard time reconciling scum being as hard to kill as Shraeye has been, because I KNOW that ftl has shot him TWICE, and Joth has fished him once. If Ash were ALSO town, then his claim of fishing Shray would be true as well.

That's FOUR deaths he will have survived. Even if I accept that he was 1-shot deathproof to start before Ash charged him up - That would leave TWO unexplained survivals.

[Galzria]

To further the above point - is it at all reasonable that town should have to use FIVE kill shots on scum when it's not even guaranteed that we would have even a single NK, much less target it his way?

[Galzria]

On the flip side, scum get a NK every single night -at least-, so whittling down a deathproof player is actually a reasonable goal for them.

[ashersky]

However, I have a REALLY hard time reconciling scum being as hard to kill as Shraeye has been, because I KNOW that ftl has shot him TWICE, and Joth has fished him once. If Ash were ALSO town, then his claim of fishing Shray would be true as well.

That's FOUR deaths he will have survived. Even if I accept that he was 1-shot deathproof to start before Ash charged him up - That would leave TWO unexplained survivals.

Maybe he's not lynchproof, which is town's normal weapon against scum.  We wouldn't normally rely on NKs to defeat mafia; there are plenty of games without town vigs, etc.  It's definitely possible he never survives a lynch and his night lives don't matter.

[Insomniac]

A death proof townie is bastardly a nk proof mafia isn't as town is supposed to lynch em anyways

[Galzria]

If somebody has the Red Fish, they should use it on Frisk or Dsell to cover for me making a possible mistake. If things stand at 3 scum, 1 SK, 4 town, then we're looking at a possible 5 kills before dawn: Lynch, CF, ftl, scum, Fish. Hopefully that includes 3 scum - but it should at least include 2. At worst we end with a 1-1-1 split, with potential roles to tip things in our favor. It's the best I can see, and gives us the best chances.

Is a 1-1-1 split with cayvie a known SK safe?  I'm not sure, especially if the blue fish doesn't do what cayvie said it would do.  The user has to use the fish or he dies, this part I believe.  But what happens if the fish in in scum's hands, what happens if the fish is with town?

I think we might need the lynch to hit cayvie, so as not to risk a blue fish being around with only 3 people left, something I'm very worried about.

It's a risk, but the right move.

Can you explain why it's the right move?  Apparently I'm a bit slow, and I'm not following the explanation fully.

Convincing scum it's the right move is not possible, or worth the effort.

Vote: Shraeye ?

I'm getting a much worse feeling on him than eevee / asher / lekkit, and I'd rather not leave it to chance that mischief happens.

Anybody want to offer thoughts on this? CF's vote was the first cast on Shraeye, and you can tell by MY posts that I thought Shraeye was scum. This is the sort of vote that can turn into a wagon, fast, when there are points of contention. It's worth noting that the above exchange between Shraeye and I came after I suggested we:

Lynch Eevee
CF -> Lekkit
ftl -> Shraeye
Fish -> Dsell/CF
Lekkit -> Me

Shraeye was questioning if I had really thought everything through. Under this suggestion, Eevee would die, but that's it for scum - AND Lekkit would be killed by Frisk.

This is tough to decipher:

Shraeye COULD'VE been trying to derail scumbuddy Eevee's lynch - however if that's true then scumbuddy CF would be throwing him under the bus.

OTOH, CF would've known that Shraeye was deathproof, thus a lynch would do no harm to scum. This would also mean he got to kill a townie at night, and who knows what ftl would do. Hmm...

Thoughts?

[Galzria]

What do people think was the purpose of ftl's investigative role? How do you think it was designed to help us catch scum?

[Galzria]

A death proof townie is bastardly a nk proof mafia isn't as town is supposed to lynch em anyways

According to mafiawiki, deathproof is seen on both factions.

[Galzria]

Another big point of contention for me regarding Ash is this:

It was made clear he should target Insomniac. He did not. He targeted ftl. Even though ftl has full claimed, and it's known he doesn't have anything to charge. Further, if Ash is scum, then each night he had somebody else around to do the killing for him. Last night he wouldn't. So his targeting of the player who died is rather scummy. Especially since it's not like he can fakeclaim to have targeted anybody else since everybody else is still in this thread right now and could counter such a claim.

[Galzria]

I'm not sure what the implications of a scum Frisk would be. I don't understand how he could be mafia because he killed Insomniac the same night as the apparent flavor-stealing ninja.

It's still possible there's a serial killer faction (in cayvie's PM it's listed as "Alignment" not "Role") and that cayvie/Frisk are both in it.

I suppose it's possible that Frisk is the actual SK and cayvie is mafia claiming SK...this would be a strange scenario (it reminds me of the last day of MIV) that could involve Frisk knowing that cayvie is lying without being able to directly tell the town how he knows she's lying.

I agree that Frisk's role seems much more like a SK role than cayvie's. Frisk's PM looks doctored, whereas cayvie's does not.

It's also possible that a redirector caused Frisk (or the ninja, I suppose) to target Insom when he meant to target someone else. But a redirector wouldn't own up to that, I'm sure. Except a redirector would probably be scum, and why would scum cause the two kills to conflict.

I'm not sure. We might have to run through more situations to include these possibilities.

There's some wrong information in here, but man... I've gone over this 1000 times, and I just don't understand it. How could Scum CF's kill collide with the Ice Cream kill, when we have no redirector? All roles are claimed, so I have to assume the ice cream came from scum, since nobody in town understands it... But why target Insomniac twice?

I know it may not be relevant here... But something to chew on. I thought perhaps Insomniacs speakers that played Surprise Surprise acted like a lightning rod - but other things went other places. :-/

[Galzria]

I'm town and that fact is obvious to Galzria, who is confirmed town.

My issue is that I don't completely trust Dsell. Even if he's my towniest read* doesn't mean I can't be wrong.

Well, mostly obvious then. He said somewhere earlier that I was 95% town. He's second-guessing himself because he really has to question his reads, but suffice it to say that I'm much more confirmed than any of you 4.

And again, my claim might not prove me as town, but it is a town role and I am willing to claim, but only if desired by Galz and company and only after the four of you claim.

I should note, I OFTEN second guess myself, or at least doubt myself often - even though I've usually got a good handle on things. Like here. So I should probably hold my initial reads with some weight: that is Ash is town and Shrae scum.

[ashersky]

Another big point of contention for me regarding Ash is this:

It was made clear he should target Insomniac. He did not. He targeted ftl. Even though ftl has full claimed, and it's known he doesn't have anything to charge. Further, if Ash is scum, then each night he had somebody else around to do the killing for him. Last night he wouldn't. So his targeting of the player who died is rather scummy. Especially since it's not like he can fakeclaim to have targeted anybody else since everybody else is still in this thread right now and could counter such a claim.

I went back and forth with the mods on this, and I wasn't convinced recharging Insom would work, due to the flavor saying he'd die without help.  I also didn't know if I could recharge the alive.  I decided a possible extra vig shot from ftl was a better risk.

[Galzria]

Both of their claims have some proven merit, however this section of Shraeye's seems very poorly constructed, well below eHal's standards, and makes me consider that it might've been altered:

" When you would be killed in any way, you lose one shot of your Deathproof instead. Flavour will make note of when you become a Tree Stump (it will be a little more flavourful than that, of course). When you have 0 Shots remaining, you become a Tree Stump, at which point you may truly be killed. Even as a Stump you may still vote."

Thoughts?

[Galzria]

Another point against Shraeye, is that Lekkit, confirmed town, had a role that did essentially the same thing: prevented him from dying by bringing him back as a Zombie. Zombies can, of course, still vote. Thus if they were BOTH town, and both only do what they've claimed, then Shraeye's power is almost strictly inferior. The similarities themselves are enough to make me question it though...

[Galzria]

The ashersky role doesn't make sense as scum.  If his claim is true, as I know it is based on what he did to me, then he is pretty much conftown.  It makes no sense to use this power on anyone other than his scumteam if he was mafa.  He used it on me, and this is Dsell's crazy scum conspiracy, but that would be too broken of a setup by eHalc.  If me and asher were both scum, he'd have charged me up every single night.  He also usedthis on the icecream neighborhood (presumably he used it on jorbles, so the neighborhood scoops went up but joth didn't know it) and they're all town.  So I conclude that asher is absolutely town.

I'm thinking through the other claims now, nothing makes complete sense for the icecream scoop based on the roles as posted.  I need to read Dsell's claim closer.  It looks like he could take things from recently killed players.  He says that he can only use their power, but maybe he took a scoop from archetype and has been bashing with it?  It would be like the Robz thief role, except Robz steals from the living and Dsell steals from the dead.

I'm certain that cayvie's alignment of SK is true, but I'm still suspicious of her powers being as stated.

Is there confirmation from anyone other than Dsell that joth was a doctor?  Was there even confirmation from Dsell?  I wasn't told anything about being protected last night, just that I had icecream stuffed in a knot of my trunk.  I'm considering if Eevee's doctor claim can be real, it felt not real to me, as I had a hunch that joth was doctor, but there was no confirmation there.  I'm wary about using DSell's word that joth was a doctor as the reason Eevee is lying.   Dsell did claim after Eevee, so may have written things to make eevee's claim look worse.  I'm still suspicious of how he tried to be the very last to claim.

More thoughts will come later, but I'm highly suspicious of DSell, Eevee.  Certain ash, me are town.  certain cayvie is SK.  lekkit, frisk, ftl i'm unsure of.  but i'm leaning that lekkit is also scum, ftl is town-flavourcop, frisk is town-vig.

This post looks like a lot of twisting and setting up town lynches. I also very dislike how sure you are that Cayvie is SK, since it's something I debated right down to the lynch of Frisk.

[Galzria]

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4679.msg127988#msg127988

That is the post that has all the claims. I'm looking over them for inconsistencies against Ashersky's and Shraeye's claims. I'll note that the last paragraph of Shraeye's feels REALLY off to me. Where it says "0-Shot", the "S" is capitalized - this is not the case in ftl's PM where it says "1-shot" (I'm looking primarily in the body of text).

Shraeye's PM also capitalizes "Tree Stump" every time, but Lekkit's "zombies" are not.

I don't know. I mentioned it above, but that final paragraph in Shraeye's claim seems SO clunky and out of the ordinary for eHal, who is meticulous otherwise.

[Galzria]

Alright, along with ftl, I'm going to rule out Ashersky as today's lynch (and probably rule him out as a target tonight as well), and here's why:

Flavour name: Spiritual Medium
Role name: Modposter/Neighbour
Alignment: Town

Abilities:

As you are well aware, there is more to this world than what you can see and touch.  Since you were a young child you’ve been tuned into The Other Side (except for a few hours each week when you are tuned into HBO, which you don’t even have to pay for since you can watch it all in your head!).  You can hear spirits whispering all around you.  Whether they are helpful is a different matter.  Usually they’re just creepy in a “we see everything you do” kind of way.

As the Spiritual Medium, you have access to the Spectator QT, where you may communicate with all spectators during the day and night:

Wouldn't your like to know?

Because spectators may be called upon to act as replacements, and because you might not be the only one with access to the thread, you are advised to use a pseudonym when posting in the QT.  Or perhaps you’d rather not post at all, if you’re more of a listener -- it’s up to you.

You will not get access to the Dead Player QT when you die.  Instead, you gain a new power: each night you may “possess” the moderator, having him publicly post a short message (we’ll say 255 characters, but I may be flexible) from you to the rest of the town.  It will be made clear that the message comes from you and contains no mod-confirmed content.  The moderator reserves the right to redact parts of the message, including but not limited to off-site links. 

If you and your spectating spirits figure something out, you have the means to let the town know.  Of course, not all spirits are benevolent, so take care which ones you heed!

My PM - Which also puts me at a 255 character cap on my messages to town (obviously I got away with going WAY overboard (I read it as 255 words at first, and I exceeded even THAT), but only because I wrote such a nice poem!). Ashersky could still be scum with that PM, but at least I know the PM is, for the most part, true.

Also, good to remember original reasons.

[ashersky]

Galz, good on you for reviewing.  Your initial town on me is correct.

Hopefully we'll hear more voices weigh in soon.

[ashersky]

Galz, good on you for reviewing.  Your initial town on me is correct.

Hopefully we'll hear more voices weigh in soon.

Initial town read, that should say.

[Galzria]

I still very much dislike your crazy "what if new zombiegalz is scumzombie and this is a Bastard game!?" - but I see little point in your doing that if scum, outside of the possibility of trying a last ditch effort to derail Frisk's lynch and get Eevee's instead.

That's awfully aggressive though when it was obvious you stood alone at that time, and Frisk was going down. So I just don't see it as scum play. More crazy town play.

[ashersky]

I still very much dislike your crazy "what if new zombiegalz is scumzombie and this is a Bastard game!?" - but I see little point in your doing that if scum, outside of the possibility of trying a last ditch effort to derail Frisk's lynch and get Eevee's instead.

That's awfully aggressive though when it was obvious you stood alone at that time, and Frisk was going down. So I just don't see it as scum play. More crazy town play.

It was truly frustrated town play, because I was so frustrated by that whole situation.

[Galzria]

And that effectively gets me through most major interactions. I'm going to sleep now, will check in in the morning. I think I've offered commentary on both the positives and negatives for both players, so hopefully people will weigh in. No need to vote quite yet though Zombies. I hate waking up to endgames, and besides, eHal is an afternoon player and we don't want to be waiting all day for the conclusion.

[Galzria]

I still very much dislike your crazy "what if new zombiegalz is scumzombie and this is a Bastard game!?" - but I see little point in your doing that if scum, outside of the possibility of trying a last ditch effort to derail Frisk's lynch and get Eevee's instead.

That's awfully aggressive though when it was obvious you stood alone at that time, and Frisk was going down. So I just don't see it as scum play. More crazy town play.

It was truly frustrated town play, because I was so frustrated by that whole situation.

It was just... I DID think Eevee was scum. With well above average likelihood. But I KNEW with absolute certainty that both Cayvie and Frisk were - and we simply couldn't afford to be wrong. As unlikely as it may have been for Eevee to be telling the truth, it just didn't make sense to lynch him there... And you were freaking out over my pushing 100% scum reads over 75% scum reads.

[ashersky]

I still very much dislike your crazy "what if new zombiegalz is scumzombie and this is a Bastard game!?" - but I see little point in your doing that if scum, outside of the possibility of trying a last ditch effort to derail Frisk's lynch and get Eevee's instead.

That's awfully aggressive though when it was obvious you stood alone at that time, and Frisk was going down. So I just don't see it as scum play. More crazy town play.

It was truly frustrated town play, because I was so frustrated by that whole situation.

It was just... I DID think Eevee was scum. With well above average likelihood. But I KNEW with absolute certainty that both Cayvie and Frisk were - and we simply couldn't afford to be wrong. As unlikely as it may have been for Eevee to be telling the truth, it just didn't make sense to lynch him there... And you were freaking out over my pushing 100% scum reads over 75% scum reads.

I don't think you were wrong to be annoyed with me, but you know the way it feels when you are onto something and people don't go with it.  It drove me crazy.

We got them all in the end, anyway.  Now to finish it off.  Let's see some more zombie interaction.

[Lekkit]

First of all, the Ice cream death is likely from CF writing the kill flavour as Dsell got that power when he died.

Second, I guess all these zomvies comes from a global recharge from Ins. Jo, could you tell us if the ice cream neighbourhood got rechaeged as well, or if it was just oeople who has held alive that was charged up?

Regarding Sraeye's power. He started out with 1 shot. Got recharged and got to two. He was then shot by ftl twice and possibly fished twice. Assuming all 4 shots hit him, he would then have recieved a total of 4 shots, since he is not a stump. My guess is that he's lying and actually is bulletproof.

I'm warming up to the idea that asher might be scum, due to him not doing what he was told to, and the pointa that Galz mentions. However, I have a really haed time believing shraeye's xlaim right now. And lying like that now is NOT towny at all.

[Lekkit]

And Dr Horrible is awesome!

[ashersky]

First of all, the Ice cream death is likely from CF writing the kill flavour as Dsell got that power when he died.

Second, I guess all these zomvies comes from a global recharge from Ins. Jo, could you tell us if the ice cream neighbourhood got rechaeged as well, or if it was just oeople who has held alive that was charged up?

Regarding Sraeye's power. He started out with 1 shot. Got recharged and got to two. He was then shot by ftl twice and possibly fished twice. Assuming all 4 shots hit him, he would then have recieved a total of 4 shots, since he is not a stump. My guess is that he's lying and actually is bulletproof.

I'm warming up to the idea that asher might be scum, due to him not doing what he was told to, and the pointa that Galz mentions. However, I have a really haed time believing shraeye's xlaim right now. And lying like that now is NOT towny at all.

Look, I decided in the end to recharge ftl because: I could not be sure Insom would be alive another day, and we didn't know what his powers actually did; ftl had a town vig to recharge, and he had a fighting chance to survive.  In the end, it didn't matter, since the game ends today.  However, if ftl had been recharged, and we got another night, the vig was going to be useful.

Being town doesn't mean blithely following orders at this stage of the game.  I tried to do what I thought would help town the most.  I red fished Shraeye and recharged our vig.

It's late here in Oz and I'll be turning in soon.  Hopefully I wake up to a Shraeye lynch and town win. I would stress again, it's my actions against Shraeye's words.  What's he done to help town?  Galz pointed out his subtle anti-town plays.

I'll revote: Shraeye so folks know.  I think it's indicative that Shraeye didn't vote...I think he's waiting for someone to vote me so he can hammer for the win.

[jotheonah]

Ice cream got 2 extra shots!

Galz, you said earlier I fish-targeted Shraeye; this is false. I fish-targeted cayvie (bad idea, it turns out, gave her a nightkill, good thing you guys lynched her)

I think 99% shraeye. BUT I'm not loving ashersky's leaning on the actions vs words defense. Because IF ahsersky is scum, he's scum who has been playing pro-town all game with his powers just to get to this moment. He's counting on that to carry him through.

I don't think 100% certainty is going to happen though. shraeye lynch is A-OK lynch in my book.

[shraeye]

Alright, this is a big point of contention for me right now, so I would like thoughts on -just this-:

Each night, he charged up town. The only exception to this is the night where he claimed to have charged up Eevee - something Eevee counterclaimed.

Under what circumstances does it make sense for SCUM Eevee to counterclaim TOWN Ashersky?

I've already addressed adequately (I think) why Scum/Scum would play this out, although feel free to discuss that as well.

I'd point out that we now know I charged up scum on N1, based on reads from that first day.  But the rest of your comment stands.

I'd also throw in that SCUM Eevee could have been trying to throw suspicion my way to help out SCUM Shraeye.  Which it clearly has done.

That second comment is unfair, as I would contest that has certainly NOT been the case - even during that time frame, I was MUCH more likely to trust you - even directing the town to start shooting Shraeye. It hasn't been untilhere in a 1 on 1 situation between you two in particular that I've given it any weight or thought - and you can't have expected Eevee to believe things would wind up like this on the final day - so it wasn't some grand scheme.

Fair enough point, especially on somehow knowing how the final day would look.  Shraeye certainly knew yesterday how it would play out.  Look at #2381, where Shraeye continues his town read on me but starts to cast suspicion.  And #2383, where he is fine with double NK on him because he knew he'd survive and be in this position today.

Ashersky, the argument that I knew I'd be in this position today could not be correct at all.  As of yesterday I had just one deathproof.  I believe that ftl vigged me as he said he would, and I fully believe that you would have hit me with the fish.  The only reason I'm alive right now is because I got another shot of Deathproof from insomniac as he gave a global recharge last night.  How could I have known that?

Also, I think I've only been hit 3 times, some people say that joth hit me with a fish.  Joth can you confirm that you didn't do this?  I'm sure ftl his me twice as he stated he would, and that ashersky had a fish last night, which I'm pretty sure he hit me with.  That's 3 hits to use up my initial deathproof PLUS the charge from asher PLUS the charge from Insom.

[shraeye]

PPE, ah, I see you confirmed that joth, thanks.

[Galzria]

Ice cream got 2 extra shots!

Galz, you said earlier I fish-targeted Shraeye; this is false. I fish-targeted cayvie (bad idea, it turns out, gave her a nightkill, good thing you guys lynched her)

I think 99% shraeye. BUT I'm not loving ashersky's leaning on the actions vs words defense. Because IF ahsersky is scum, he's scum who has been playing pro-town all game with his powers just to get to this moment. He's counting on that to carry him through.

I don't think 100% certainty is going to happen though. shraeye lynch is A-OK lynch in my book.

Hmm, thank you. Thought I might've missed something. So he's survived THREE shots, not four.

Then I can explain this if he's scum, but not if he's town. Hmm...

Can you think of how he survived an extra shot as town?

[Galzria]

Hmm - I see above.

[shraeye]

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4679.msg127988#msg127988

That is the post that has all the claims. I'm looking over them for inconsistencies against Ashersky's and Shraeye's claims. I'll note that the last paragraph of Shraeye's feels REALLY off to me. Where it says "0-Shot", the "S" is capitalized - this is not the case in ftl's PM where it says "1-shot" (I'm looking primarily in the body of text).

Shraeye's PM also capitalizes "Tree Stump" every time, but Lekkit's "zombies" are not.

I don't know. I mentioned it above, but that final paragraph in Shraeye's claim seems SO clunky and out of the ordinary for eHal, who is meticulous otherwise.

I can't explain that last paragraph at all, that's exactly what I got.  It's possibly of not that Tree Stump is an actual entry on Mafiascum, but zombie is not.  Also I think it's evident from the flavor that I am in fact a Treestump now, exactly as I claimed I would be.

Regarding Sraeye's power. He started out with 1 shot. Got recharged and got to two. He was then shot by ftl twice and possibly fished twice. Assuming all 4 shots hit him, he would then have recieved a total of 4 shots, since he is not a stump. My guess is that he's lying and actually is bulletproof.

I'm confused.  I am a stump, as I got hit for the third time last night.  It was stated in the opening flavor today.  What's inconsistent with that?

PPE: Galz, what do you mean I survived an extra shot?

[shraeye]

Ah, I see the answer is in 2463, sorry for the confusion.

[jotheonah]

actually I'm starting to like this crazy ash is scum who played an incredible town game for a big payoff at the end conspiracy theory.

I think it's pretty clear both of them are what they say they are. We know ash's targets recieved motivational speeches. We know shraeye had a certain number of death-proof shots and is now a stump.

So, the questions are "Could scum have a recharger?" "Is there any chance a scum recharger only recharged town players, and did so in such a helpful way"

"Could scum have a multi-deathproof person?" Insom pointed out that it wouldn't matter since we're meant to lynch scum anyway.

[shraeye]

I would stress again, it's my actions against Shraeye's words.  What's he done to help town?  Galz pointed out his subtle anti-town plays.

I'll revote: Shraeye so folks know.  I think it's indicative that Shraeye didn't vote...I think he's waiting for someone to vote me so he can hammer for the win.

I've done everything I can to help town.  I don't have any fancy powers, I just stay alive, with my voice and my vote to hunt scum.  I dislike that you're trying really hard to make this an issue of comparing what actions we have against eachother, when you know from my PM that I have no special actions.  And  on that note I think even your actions are suspicious.  You charged me up, which essentially gained you an instant-buddy.  You charged up Jorbles who died, then fought with eevee, since then you're charges have been directed.  You couldn't afford to not charge up the people we were telling you to charge up.  Until last night, when you figured you could not charge, kill me with vig/fish and NK ftl for the win.  Unfortunately for you Insom charged me up more, so now you have to explain yourself.  And your explanation is you thought you needed to power up the town VIG??  As in, you claim to know you were town, were sure enough that ftl was town to charge him, knew I was going to die last night from fish/vig, but still thought powering the vig up was most useful?  Who's he going to shoot? the zombies? eHalc?

Am I the only one reading that and saying, "what???"

And I think the exact opposite about our votes.  I think it's highly suspicious that you voted me as your very first thing, and then revoted me already once.  It's like you're trying to pressure people to agree with you.  This is up to the zombies, and I think it's bad play for us to quick vote for eachother and hope that one of the zombies gets hasty and ends the game before we've been given a chance to sort everything out.

[jotheonah]

shraeye makes some very good points. Galzria, Insom, thoughts?

[Lekkit]

Totally missed that Shraeye became a stump. I guess that's a normal effect of tunneling, though. :S

[jotheonah]

Oh, Lekkit, you're here too.

[Lekkit]

shraeye makes some very good points. Galzria, Insom, thoughts?

[Lekkit]

Charging up ftl with another vig shot doesn't make any sense at all!

[Lekkit]

But even so, charging up Ins wouldn't do much either.

[shraeye]

The ashersky role doesn't make sense as scum.  If his claim is true, as I know it is based on what he did to me, then he is pretty much conftown.  It makes no sense to use this power on anyone other than his scumteam if he was mafa.  He used it on me, and this is Dsell's crazy scum conspiracy, but that would be too broken of a setup by eHalc.  If me and asher were both scum, he'd have charged me up every single night.  He also usedthis on the icecream neighborhood (presumably he used it on jorbles, so the neighborhood scoops went up but joth didn't know it) and they're all town.  So I conclude that asher is absolutely town.

I'm thinking through the other claims now, nothing makes complete sense for the icecream scoop based on the roles as posted.  I need to read Dsell's claim closer.  It looks like he could take things from recently killed players.  He says that he can only use their power, but maybe he took a scoop from archetype and has been bashing with it?  It would be like the Robz thief role, except Robz steals from the living and Dsell steals from the dead.

I'm certain that cayvie's alignment of SK is true, but I'm still suspicious of her powers being as stated.

Is there confirmation from anyone other than Dsell that joth was a doctor?  Was there even confirmation from Dsell?  I wasn't told anything about being protected last night, just that I had icecream stuffed in a knot of my trunk.  I'm considering if Eevee's doctor claim can be real, it felt not real to me, as I had a hunch that joth was doctor, but there was no confirmation there.  I'm wary about using DSell's word that joth was a doctor as the reason Eevee is lying.   Dsell did claim after Eevee, so may have written things to make eevee's claim look worse.  I'm still suspicious of how he tried to be the very last to claim.

More thoughts will come later, but I'm highly suspicious of DSell, Eevee.  Certain ash, me are town.  certain cayvie is SK.  lekkit, frisk, ftl i'm unsure of.  but i'm leaning that lekkit is also scum, ftl is town-flavourcop, frisk is town-vig.

This post looks like a lot of twisting and setting up town lynches. I also very dislike how sure you are that Cayvie is SK, since it's something I debated right down to the lynch of Frisk.

These were my initial thoughts right out of the gate post-claims, I also was later debating whether Frisk or cayvie was SK, and was actually surprised when Frisk flipped mafia, as I had become convinced he was SK.
Here is my larger set of thoughts that day

And the point when I became almost sure frisk was SK, which was because I was trying to explan Dsell's actions.

I suppose it's possible that Frisk is the actual SK and cayvie is mafia claiming SK...this would be a strange scenario (it reminds me of the last day of MIV) that could involve Frisk knowing that cayvie is lying without being able to directly tell the town how he knows she's lying.

Wait, I was looking through Dsell's stuff, and found this that he posted after Eevee's claim.  Why was he willing to consider this possibility before, but now is only hot on lynching Frisk?  I'm feeling more and more secure in my conspiracy theory mafia of eevee/dsell/cayvie with Frisk as SK.

[Galzria]

shraeye makes some very good points. Galzria, Insom, thoughts?

I agree. It's one of the things I mentioned last night that I'm really struggling with.

A recharge of Insomniac MIGHT have kept him alive. That was certainly the running theory, which is WHY Ash was directed there.

There were only 3 people alive last night though:

ftl, Ash, Shraeye

If Shraeye were scum, as it seemed apparent Ash had to believe, then he knew Ash would be getting hit with 2 shots - the fish, and ftl. Even if somehow this failed to kill him (which I can't see Ashersky to expect), then what good does charging a Vig do?

First off, if Shraeye is scum, he's going to kill either Ashersky or ftl. Even if he survives a double-shot (which again - no reason to believe would happen), it brings town to a 1-1 game where next lynch decides it and Vig shots are useless.

In contrast, having an extra Zombie vote - hell, even a CHANCE at an extra Zombie vote could be critical. Asher targeting ftl makes zero sense to me - if he's town

Scum Ashersky would've expected Shraeye to die however - and killing ftl would've endgamed things, which makes perfect sense in this wacky world.

[jotheonah]

OK, then. Do we pull the trigger? We're all here now.

[Galzria]

For better or worse.

Have I mentioned, I hate being wrong?

I can find solid arguments pointing towards both players being the remaining scum. I really can. And the fact that town is even in the spot we ate after such a horrendous start I think is quite impressive.

But I'm willing to shot now, and I think I want to point the gun at Ashersky.

[Galzria]

Above quote is SwitchedFromStarcraft, for those who don't know.

[Galzria]

For better or worse.

Have I mentioned, I hate being wrong?

I can find solid arguments pointing towards both players being the remaining scum. I really can. And the fact that town is even in the spot we ate after such a horrendous start I think is quite impressive.

But I'm willing to shot now, and I think I want to point the gun at Ashersky.

Ugh. Buyers remorse is going to get you every time. Even as I type that and post it, all the evidence to the contrary pours into my head. Blaaah.

Still, gotta make a decision somewhere, right?

[jotheonah]

Here, I'll have it on my hands if it makes you feel better.

Vote: ashersky

[Galzria]

Here's my last thought...

Flipping back through my QT notes, there were times, even quite recently, I doubted myself on ftl, Dsell, even Lekkit (AFTER he was killed and flipped town!). These suspicions generally do NOT include Ashersky. And I have to ask myself why.

He's been flying SO under the radar most the game, and that's a traditional scum spot. My lack of notice is, I think, in itself scummy.

[Galzria]

Zombie hammer!

Vote: Ashersky

[Galzria]

And that's the game.

Shraeye, you're here now. Don't troll us poor souls. It's been a long, and good, game.

Did we do your dirty work for you? Did I talk myself (and town) out of a win?

[jotheonah]

+1 for the game lasting exactly 100 pages.

[Voltgloss]

THREAD STUMPEDLOCKED

[Voltgloss]

I've messaged eHal to see if he is around to provide final flavour/flip.  I don't want to deprive him of that if at all possible.  But if he's not around, I'll provide the flip so as to not prolong the suspense TOO too much.

[Voltgloss]

Looks like eHal is not around.  A pity.  I am sure he has terrific flavour in store, so I will limit myself here to the flip and the results:


ashersky has been lynched.  He was a Town-aligned Motivational Speaker Bot.

The zombies are endgamed.  shraeye, the Evil League of Evil-aligned Ancient Oak Tree, is the sole player remaining alive (if a bit stumpy).


The Game Is Over.  Evil League of Evil Wins!

QTs are unlocked, and I'll post links a bit later.  Chat away, folks.  What an incredible game. 

One thing I will say up front:  Insom's Solar Panels recharged ALL X-Shot abilities throughout the town.  This included - not just the zombies' 1-Shot Alives - but also shraeye, who was 2-Shot Deathproof at the start of the game. 

[Galzria]

Blah.

I should've stuck to my initial instincts. But I couldn't imagine that I actually nailed all 4 scum when I came back the first time.

Argh.

I'll take the blame here. I played us into - and out of - a win.

Well played scum.

[Eevee]

[Captain_Frisk]

WOOOOOHOOOOO

I can not believe you let me - an obvious liar - live and keep killing for 3 straight days!

[shraeye]

Small mistake Voltgloss, I was 1-shot DP at start of game.  Then asher charged me up.  Then ftl vigged me down.  Then ash/ftl combo last night should have ended me, but Insom charged me up once again.  My PM was actually almost 100% accurate, so my reaction to people saying it was a lie was genuine.

Just changed a few words, and left out the part about alignment-flip, which I thought looked scummy.

Flavour name: Ancient Oak Tree
Role name: 1-Shot Deathproof
Alignment: Evil League of Evil

Ability:

You were raised on sunlight and water.  Except the sunlight was really gamma radiation.  And the water was really the tears of your enemies.  And maybe some blood too.  Definitely some blood.

Whatever the case, you are pretty much the most malevolent Oak tree around.  It’s a little harder to judge if you consider all deciduous trees, and certainly there are some really crazy conifers out there, but out of all the Oak trees you are definitely the most evil.  Well, top three.  Definitely top three in your home forest.

You share a QT with your fellow League members here:

http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/YH3MWe7bmkDg

When you perform the League Night Kill, the death flavour will always be plant-related.  When you would be killed in any way, you lose one shot of your Deathproof instead.  Flavour will make note of when you become a Tree Stump (it will be a little more flavourful than that, of course).  Your alignment will not be revealed until you actually die.  When you have 0 Shots remaining, you become a Tree Stump, at which point you may truly be killed.  Even as a Stump you may still vote and perform your factional Night Kill.

Compared to what I actually posted

Flavour name: Ancient Oak Tree
Role name: 1-Shot Deathproof
Alignment: Town

Ability:

You were raised on sunlight and water.  Except the sunlight was really gamma radiation.  And the water was really the blood of those departed.

Whatever the case, you are pretty much the most anguished Oak tree around.  It’s a little harder to judge if you consider all deciduous trees, and certainly there are some really crazy conifers out there, but out of all the Oak trees you are definitely the most miserable.  Well, top three.  Definitely top three in your home forest.  Too bad death won't even take the pain away.

When you would be killed in any way, you lose one shot of your Deathproof instead.  Flavour will make note of when you become a Tree Stump (it will be a little more flavourful than that, of course).  When you have 0 Shots remaining, you become a Tree Stump, at which point you may truly be killed.  Even as a Stump you may still vote.

[Galzria]

Rechargeable Deathproof is a Bastard power though, so I don't feel terribly terrible (just mostly terrible).

[Insomniac]

Insomniac thinks shraeye is lying, goes offline to drive to work, comes back and Galz/Jo lynched ash.

Not impressed 

[shraeye]

Out of curiosity, what was the lie you caught me in Insom?  Or did you just find my story more suspicious?  I wouldn't be surprised if I had posted some lies, it's hard to sort all that stuff out.

From the scum QT, here's the argument that I think would have gotten me lynched on the last day.

If Lekkit's powers help him and other townies stay around to give votes, my power let's me stay alive in the game and prevent's the opposing faction from winning. If both me and Lekkit were town, how in the world would any scumteam expect to win?

[Eevee]

Okay, so I have two completely separate things I'd like to say. Firstly, what an incredible game! Thanks xmillion eHalc for creating and modding it for us, and wow I want to be scum with CF and shraeye for all eternity, we were one hell of a team. Mad props to shraeye for pulling it off in the end, sooooo goood. Like so so good.

I don't want this complaint to completely shadow the fact I think the game was incredible and fun, so don't take it the wrong way, but I super dislike being allowed to post role pm's like this (unless you do it Ozle way and have the mod provide scum with fake flavor upon request). I said "well, the second someone proposes a mass claim I'll be insta lynched" in the mafia WT before day 1, and that's exactly what happened. It's pretty disheartening to know you won't be able to produce eHalc level flavor (I mean, I'm not able to write fluent english so...) and for that reason you will be caught the second you are asked to post your pm. This time we also got screwed by double spaces (something I still don't understand), but I think this REALLY goes against the spirit of the game and don't find it an enjoyable.

[Insomniac]

Out of curiosity, what was the lie you caught me in Insom?  Or did you just find my story more suspicious?  I wouldn't be surprised if I had posted some lies, it's hard to sort all that stuff out.

From the scum QT, here's the argument that I think would have gotten me lynched on the last day.

If Lekkit's powers help him and other townies stay around to give votes, my power let's me stay alive in the game and prevent's the opposing faction from winning. If both me and Lekkit were town, how in the world would any scumteam expect to win?

Ash was just TOO townie, it makes 0 sense for scum ash to be recharging people like he was as scum, like doing it once or twice for town cred sure, but we have 6 instances of him charging up town. Not to mention once the scum team started dying it makes even less sense because his team was actually super close to winning.

So to be fair it wasn't anything in particular you said, just the story I'd have to believe for Ash to be scum is too hard to believe, the one I have to believe for you to be scum is super easy.

[Eevee]

@Galzria
Only townies could recharge shraeye though. I'm quite impressed we pulled this off, three mafias out of 15 players (one weak serial killer who has pretty much no change, good game though cayvie). My special power was pretty cool but not super useful (we totally should have framed a dayvig for Frisk though), Frisk's was A LOT stronger than we expected (the double kill night 1 was a touch of genius and leading town to it's demise after that was the most fun I've ever had playing mafia.. I realize now always being town was boring!). Shraeye's power was incredible but so was Lekkit's and ashersky's. Idk, I feel this game was very well balanced (should be evident by the incredibly close ending).

I totally see what Insomniac is saying, I was very surprised to see shraeye pull it off that smoothly.

[shraeye]

I thought your eHalc-style flavor was good Eevee, the name was perhaps a bit suspicious, you probably could have left it at Sartorial Cyborg.  I loved the Postman pete touch you came up with

@Insom, yeah I was running my spin factory overtime trying to come up with a reason why asher's powers were used suspiciously.  I think the story I weaved wasn't too bad.  Very lucky for us that Jorbles died on the night asher charged him, that Eevee argued with asher about his charge, and that all further charges were directed.  I'm not sure at all what I would have done with a different set of circumstances.

[Robz888]

So, the last batch of forum mafia games to conclude--XII, Blitz3, XIV, and this one--are all scum victories, fwiw.

[Captain_Frisk]

Okay, so I have two completely separate things I'd like to say. Firstly, what an incredible game! Thanks xmillion eHalc for creating and modding it for us, and wow I want to be scum with CF and shraeye for all eternity, we were one hell of a team. Mad props to shraeye for pulling it off in the end, sooooo goood. Like so so good.

I don't want this complaint to completely shadow the fact I think the game was incredible and fun, so don't take it the wrong way, but I super dislike being allowed to post role pm's like this (unless you do it Ozle way and have the mod provide scum with fake flavor upon request). I said "well, the second someone proposes a mass claim I'll be insta lynched" in the mafia WT before day 1, and that's exactly what happened. It's pretty disheartening to know you won't be able to produce eHalc level flavor (I mean, I'm not able to write fluent english so...) and for that reason you will be caught the second you are asked to post your pm. This time we also got screwed by double spaces (something I still don't understand), but I think this REALLY goes against the spirit of the game and don't find it an enjoyable.

The double spaces thing was because we had pasted it into our scum QT, and then copied it from there.

[Captain_Frisk]

Me adding italics, but not bold, and writing vig / vigilante == straight up boneheaded.

[Dsell]

>:-(

[Insomniac]

So, the last batch of forum mafia games to conclude--XII, Blitz3, XIV, and this one--are all scum victories, fwiw.

XII - Even numbered game theory
XIV - Even numbered game theory

Blitz3 - Blitz's have an odd numbered game theory this is less strong than the standard game theory

RMM games I have no theory for.

[Galzria]

Bah! I'll contest that Shraeye didn't pull the win through for scum, rather that I cost the town the win.

No, wait, I can blame Insomniac! If he didn't recharge the game would've ended with Shraeye dying last night! It's all Insomniac's fault! Let's hang him! Vote: INSOMNIAC


..... No but really, I hate my inability to trust myself. You'll see how much I struggled with this issue in my QT when it's posted. Seriously, I think I second, third, forth and fifth guess myself WAY too much, and my initial instincts are generally pretty good. I got Cayvie and CF to both be forced out, was mostly sure of Eever, and had the town shooting Shraeye. Lekkit brought me back and I nailed all 4 scum. Then I was brought back again. Why me?

[Insomniac]

>:-(

So much this! I WANTED TO LYNCH SHRAEYE. I should have just done it, stuff listening to Galz! His Lylo record is make scum win (this does of course include the games where he has been scum  )

[Captain_Frisk]

+10000 to ehalc as usual for modding, but I actually felt that when massclaim time came, scum were at a huge disadvantage because we had no verifiable powers, which made us stand out like a sore thumb.

I mean, i got to live a while because of my double flavor kill on day 1 (thanks Archtype!), but everyone else had roles that actually did something that was verifiable by other people.

[shraeye]

>:-(

Sorry dude.  One thing I'm surprised I got away with was my crazy suspicions in the last few days.  First I was convinced Dsell was scum, then convinced it must be ftl, then convinced it must be ashersky.  Frankly, that's the sort of stuff I pull as town too, since I always overstate my reads, but I'm still thankful it didn't come back to bite me too hard.

[Captain_Frisk]

Bah! I'll contest that Shraeye didn't pull the win through for scum, rather that I cost the town the win.

No, wait, I can blame Insomniac! If he didn't recharge the game would've ended with Shraeye dying last night! It's all Insomniac's fault! Let's hang him! Vote: INSOMNIAC


..... No but really, I hate my inability to trust myself. You'll see how much I struggled with this issue in my QT when it's posted. Seriously, I think I second, third, forth and fifth guess myself WAY too much, and my initial instincts are generally pretty good. I got Cayvie and CF to both be forced out, was mostly sure of Eever, and had the town shooting Shraeye. Lekkit brought me back and I nailed all 4 scum. Then I was brought back again. Why me?

You get no credit for detecting me as scum.  I was busted on day 1!

[Dsell]

I'm sorry town. I really take a lot of credit for this loss, as you'll see in the Boneyards. I was stupid. But it was soooooo winnable!

[shraeye]

>:-(

So much this! I WANTED TO LYNCH SHRAEYE. I should have just done it, stuff listening to Galz! His Lylo record is make scum win (this does of course include the games where he has been scum  )

Yeah, I was terrified of somebody who was right just deciding to end the game and agree with ashersky.  This was super tense ending, I was totally convinced I was done for many times. 

+10000 to eHalc, definitely would play a game he mods again.

[eHalcyon]

Congratulations to the League.  I had no flavour prepped yet -- was planning to do it this morning. 

I will post links to everything later.

[Galzria]

Sorry Insomniac. You should know by now, I always choose wrong. I'm useless when it matters. You should've just ended it.

[Insomniac]

Sorry Insomniac. You should know by now, I always choose wrong. I'm useless when it matters. You should've just ended it.

Like yourself and SFS I hate to be wrong, and if I had ended it and been wrong, man you guys would have been FURIOUS

[Captain_Frisk]

@joth - did my trolling in the boneyard have any impact?

[Galzria]

I still don't understand the flavour of each day.

Or N1's kills.

Or much of anything. :-/

Was there a running theme?

[Captain_Frisk]

Oh - I accidentally posted my fake PM in a spec thread for some other game (mxii perhaps?)

Did anyone catch it before I deleted it?

[Captain_Frisk]

I still don't understand the flavour of each day.

Or N1's kills.

Or much of anything. :-/

Was there a running theme?

N1 kills was 100% me.  I killed with both the glove / strangulation AND the vanilla ice cream scoop.

[Captain_Frisk]

The flavor and mini games - scum had no idea.

[Insomniac]

I still don't understand the flavour of each day.

Or N1's kills.

Or much of anything. :-/

Was there a running theme?

N1 kills was 100% me.  I killed with both the glove / strangulation AND the vanilla ice cream scoop.

OOC what was the reason for targeting me? Did you guys catch my crumb?

[Captain_Frisk]

My real PM:

Flavour name: Jack-Knife of All Trades
Role name: 2-Shot Strongman
Alignment: Evil League of Evil

Abilities:

You’ve always been good with weapons.  A nice traditional Candlestick or Lead Pipe, an unabridged copy of Moby-Dick, or even a bob-omb strapped to a man-eating Capybara -- you are able to kill just about anyone with just about anything.  Thanks to your great new job with the League, you are now able to do what you enjoy most and get paid for doing it!  You sure are living the dream.

You share a QT with your fellow League members here:

http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/YH3MWe7bmkDg

When you perform the League’s Night Kill, if you have any shots remaining, you may choose to make your kill unblockable (breaks through doctor protection, bulletproof, etc.). 

You may always choose the flavour for your kill.  For example, you may make it appear as though the target was killed by a lightsaber, or crushed by a herd of rampaging wildebeests, or simultaneously all three of “shot by a gun, stabbed by a knife and torn apart by a wolf”.  You may do whatever you want so long as it is within reason (e.g. you cannot leave a note on the body implicating some other player by name). 

Even when you are not performing the kill, you must choose to have at least one weapon equipped.  It does not have to be a conventional weapon, though it should be at least slightly menacing or dangerous in some way.  Choose your weapon now, on night 0.  Note that your chosen weapon need not be used on your next kill.

[Jorbles]

Ugh, it was really painful to watch you guys talk yourselves out of lynching shraeye in the QT.

[Insomniac]

Ugh, it was really painful to watch you guys talk yourselves out of lynching shraeye in the QT.

It was painful here too, cuz I still wanted Shraeye lynch an eye for an eye lynch

[Galzria]

What was the point of the equipped weapon?

[Captain_Frisk]

I still don't understand the flavour of each day.

Or N1's kills.

Or much of anything. :-/

Was there a running theme?

N1 kills was 100% me.  I killed with both the glove / strangulation AND the vanilla ice cream scoop.

OOC what was the reason for targeting me? Did you guys catch my crumb?

Shraeye thought you might be a serial killer, and nobody else had a strong feeling.

[Captain_Frisk]

What was the point of the equipped weapon?

I have no idea - I assumed that other people might have had day watching abilities, or maybe RobZ's thief?

[Galzria]

Here is my personal QT where I mostly talk to myself and talk myself into and out of scum reads:

http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/92mRqsmtNqaf

[shraeye]

Here's the scum QT, and I'm sure the reason for killing everybody is in there.  Apparently I'm super talkative, because there are nearly 500 posts in that QT, jeeez.

http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/YH3MWe7bmkDg

I think Frisk was right about Insom, if I recall correctly.

[Captain_Frisk]

Here's the scum QT, and I'm sure the reason for killing everybody is in there.  Apparently I'm super talkative, because there are nearly 500 posts in that QT, jeeez.

http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/YH3MWe7bmkDg

I think Frisk was right about Insom, if I recall correctly.

Man I wish we had chosen Watno!

[eHalcyon]

Closing Flavour:

Everything was a shambles.  The facility crumbled in the chaos.  All the simulations they had run, all the experiments they conducted -- all for naught.  Nothing good had come of them.  But even with all the upheaval, the tree stump gripped the ground tightly.  It would endure.  Evil would endure.



Boneyard (dead players QT): http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/iQ6b5QxyRa8
Spectator's Discussion: http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/yRn8bFz7vsMg
Evil League of Evil: http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/YH3MWe7bmkDg
Ice Cream Neighborhood: http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/7CbZExi3aSUJ
Fishing Hole (for cayvie to rant): http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/SzP4u8pFHP8
Lonely Spirits Club (for Galz to rant): http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/92mRqsmtNqaf
Mod Notes: http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/VwmMiHeUD4HK

The "mini-game" in the spec QT was simply that an actual player (Galz) would have permanent access to the thread.  Unfortunately, only Ozle really played along and he was barely following this thread!  He had fun with it though.  Trolled Galz to no end.

Someone suggested it early on d1 (Insomniac I think), but the flavour really wasn't that important.  The flavour only became important when night actions influenced it, and those were generally highlighted in blue.  You guys missed out on a lot of such flavour because Insomniac died n1.

[Insomniac]

@eHal WHAT DO MY ABILITIES DO!

[Watno]

I still don't understand the flavour of each day.

Or N1's kills.

Or much of anything. :-/

Was there a running theme?

N1 kills was 100% me.  I killed with both the glove / strangulation AND the vanilla ice cream scoop.

I called it. Gratz scum, however I think choosing flavour is bastard.

[Voltgloss]

What was the point of the equipped weapon?

I have no idea - I assumed that other people might have had day watching abilities, or maybe RobZ's thief?

Robz's thief.  If he stole from you, he'd have stolen one of your equipped weapons.

Ice Cream QT #1:  http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/7CbZExi3aSUJ
Ice Cream QT #2:  http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/FbFSA7GcGE59

Any other QT links needed?

[Voltgloss]

I still don't understand the flavour of each day.

...

Was there a running theme?

Closing Flavour:

Everything was a shambles.  The facility crumbled in the chaos.  All the simulations they had run, all the experiments they conducted -- all for naught.  Nothing good had come of them. 

[eHalcyon]

jotheonah:

Flavour name: Vanilla Townie
Role name: X-Shot Neighborhood Doctor
Alignment: Town

Abilities:

I scream, you scream, we all scream for... daychat!  You are a vegan ice cream cone.  And we all know vegans must stick together!  Therefore, you share a QT with two other rather delicious players:

http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/7CbZExi3aSUJ

You may use this for both night and day talk.  The alignments of your neighbours are unknown to you.  Your entire Neighbourhood has 7 shared “Scoops”, or shots if you prefer Mafia terms.  That is to say, if your two neighbours choose not to use their powers ever, you could use yours 7 times.  You can all use your powers on the same night.  If you all use your powers every night, only one will be able on the third night and nobody will be able to use their powers after that.  If there are not enough scoops to go around, scoops will be used on a first-come first-serve basis.  Your action must be submitted by PM, though you may discuss its use in the QT.

You are a Doctor.  Rather Vanilla, I know.  Each night, until you run out of Scoops, you may feed someone a scoop of your excellent Vanilla Ice Cream, protecting them from one night kill.  You may not target yourself.

Jorbles:

Flavour name: Strawberry Townie
Role name: X-Shot Neighborhood Roleblocker
Alignment: Town

Abilities:

I scream, you scream, we all scream for... daychat!  You are a vegan ice cream cone.  And we all know vegans must stick together!  Therefore, you share a QT with two other rather delicious players:

http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/7CbZExi3aSUJ

You may use this for both night and day talk.  The alignments of your neighbours are unknown to you.  Your entire Neighbourhood has 7 shared “Scoops”, or shots if you prefer Mafia terms.  That is to say, if your two neighbours choose not to use their powers ever, you could use yours 7 times.  You can all use your powers on the same night.  If you all use your powers every night, only one will be able on the third night and nobody will be able to use their powers after that.  If there are not enough scoops to go around, scoops will be used on a first-come first-serve basis.  Your action must be submitted by PM, though you may discuss its use in the QT.

You are a Roleblocker.  Each night, until you run out of Scoops, you may feed someone a scoop of your ridiculously sweet Strawberry Ice Cream.  They will be so overwhelmed by the sugar rush that they will be unable to perform any actions that night.

Archetype:

Flavour name: Chocolate Townie
Role name: X-Shot Neighborhood Tracker
Alignment: Town

Abilities:

I scream, you scream, we all scream for... daychat!  You are a vegan ice cream cone.  And we all know vegans must stick together!  Therefore, you share a QT with two other rather delicious players:

http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/7CbZExi3aSUJ

You may use this for both night and day talk.  The alignments of your neighbours are unknown to you.  Your entire Neighbourhood has 7 shared “Scoops”, or shots if you prefer Mafia terms.  That is to say, if your two neighbours choose not to use their powers ever, you could use yours 7 times.  You can all use your powers on the same night.  If you all use your powers every night, only one will be able on the third night and nobody will be able to use their powers after that.  If there are not enough scoops to go around, scoops will be used on a first-come first-serve basis.  Your action must be submitted by PM, though you may discuss its use in the QT.

You are a Tracker.  Each night, until you run out of Scoops, you may feed someone a scoop of your slightly-melted Chocolate Ice Cream.  By looking out for chocolate stains, you are able to determine who your target targeted that night.

Galzria:

Flavour name: Spiritual Medium
Role name: Modposter/Neighbour
Alignment: Town

Abilities:

As you are well aware, there is more to this world than what you can see and touch.  Since you were a young child you’ve been tuned into The Other Side (except for a few hours each week when you are tuned into HBO, which you don’t even have to pay for since you can watch it all in your head!).  You can hear spirits whispering all around you.  Whether they are helpful is a different matter.  Usually they’re just creepy in a “we see everything you do” kind of way.

As the Spiritual Medium, you have access to the Spectator QT, where you may communicate with all spectators during the day and night:

http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/yRn8bFz7vsMg

Because spectators may be called upon to act as replacements, and because you might not be the only one with access to the thread, you are advised to use a pseudonym when posting in the QT.  Or perhaps you’d rather not post at all, if you’re more of a listener -- it’s up to you.

You will not get access to the Dead Player QT when you die.  Instead, you gain a new power: each night you may “possess” the moderator, having him publicly post a short message (we’ll say 255 characters, but I may be flexible) from you to the rest of the town.  It will be made clear that the message comes from you and contains no mod-confirmed content.  The moderator reserves the right to redact parts of the message, including but not limited to off-site links. 

If you and your spectating spirits figure something out, you have the means to let the town know.  Of course, not all spirits are benevolent, so take care which ones you heed!

Lekkit:

Flavour name: Insane Doctor
Role name: 3-Shot Necromancer
Alignment: Town

Abilities:

BWAHAHAHAHA!  They said you were crazy, but you’ve worked it out.  All you had to do was carry the one and replace Schrodinger’s Cat with Pavlov’s Dog.  Then, some magic and batteries (available at the local hardware store) was enough to bring the whole Rube Goldberg together.  Genius!  With your mad power, you are able to bring back the dead.

Each night, until you run out of shots, you may target one dead player.  Barring outside influence, the target will be revived in the morning and will survive until the end of that night (i.e. they will be able to use their night action, if they have one).  A zombie player may vote but its presence will not change the number of votes needed to lynch.  A zombie player cannot be voted upon.  Zombies retain their original alignment.  It will be announced that the zombie looks sickly and decomposed and will not likely survive for very long.

You will not gain access to the Dead Player QT when you die if you still have any shots remaining.  Instead, you will automatically consume all remaining shots and revive yourself.  Note that the Dead Player QT will be locked for the day while a zombie (other than you) is raised.

For game mechanic purposes, your ability adds “1-shot Alive” to the dead player’s role as a regular action, which that player automatically uses.

ashersky:

Flavour name: Motivational Speaker Bot
Role name: Recharger/Mailman
Alignment: Town

Abilities:

Everyone is wonderful and they all deserve to know it.  That’s what your programming says, at least.  Your sole purpose in this world is to record motivational speeches for those less upbeat than you.  Not everyone can run at 15 GHz, but you can certainly try to get them there!

Each night, you may target one other player, living or dead.  You may send a short private message (we’ll say 255 characters but I may be flexible) to that player via the moderator (that is, send it to me and I will pass it along).  The moderator reserves the right to redact parts of the message.  Your identity will not be revealed by the mod, though you may include it in the message if you wish.  In fact, you may put anything in your message so long as it stays within the character limit.  Or you could send nothing at all, if you wish to remain silent (but that wouldn’t be very motivational, now would it?).

If that player has an X-shot ability, they will be so moved by your message (or magnificent silence) that they gain an additional shot.  This only works on actual abilities -- it will not charge up gadgets/buttons/whatever.  They don’t need gadgets to be awesome!

ftl:

Flavour name: Major-General Stanley
Role name: Flavour Cop
Alignment: Town

Abilities:

You are the very model of a modern Major-General.  You’ve information vegetable, animal and mineral.  Or, you will have it soon!  With your extensive knowledge and formidable acumen, it’s only a matter of time before you have it all figured out.

Each night, you may target one other player.  You will intensely study that player and, in so doing, learn whether they are Vegetable, Animal or Mineral.  Some may be particularly difficult to classify, but with your exceptional educational background you will certainly be able to determine the closest category.  Depending on what you find, you will also learn a Military Lesson (one-shot ability) that you may use on subsequent nights INSTEAD of your regular flavour-cop power (Lessons may be saved for future use).

Vegetable: You learn about Military Sorties and may Commute that night (you cannot be targeted by anyone).
Animal: You learn Military Tactics, emboldening you to become a Vigilante (night kill a target).
Mineral: You learn some Military History, enabling you as a Role Cop (learn a target’s role name).

Watno:

Flavour name: CMYK War Machine 3000
Role name: Watcher
Alignment: Town

Abilities:

You’ve been through a great deal of hardship and you can’t say that you’ve come out unscathed.  Nonetheless, you’ve gotten through the worst of it with only a few dents and scratches to your paint-splattered chassis.  You are the CMYK War Machine 3000, a robot designed for the rough and tumble world of Paintball.  You are armed with two powerful paintball cannons -- they are literally your arms. 

Each night, you may choose to target two players.  You either target two or none at all.  By splattering them with a healthy layer of paint (which may or may not be lead-based), you are able to discern which other players have targeted at least one of your two targets.  Your enhanced colour vision and image analysis algorithms allow you to spot the paint on those players, however they may have tried to wash it off.  You will cycle through CMYK paintball colours.  Aim carefully!

Dsell:

Flavour name: External Hard Drive
Role name: Universal Backup
Alignment: Town

Abilities:

You can never be too careful!  Everything must be backed up.  Well, most things.  There’s only so much disk space, after all, and you’re already full of Very Important Files.  Mostly lolcats and animated gifs.  But you do have a little bit of extra space for some other data!

You will (usually) gain a one-shot version of the power of the last person to die.  This generally means that you will have the night power of whoever was just lynched.  If multiple players die simultaneously for whatever reason, I will determine the order based on logic if possible, PM timestamps otherwise, and at random if need be.  You cannot save up these 1-shot abilities.  Usually this means that you will never have the chance to use the powers of players who are night killed, though there may be exceptions.

Robz888:

Flavour name: KELPtomaniac
Role name: Thief
Alignment: Town

Abilities:

The Seaweed life is a hard life.  Stuck on the bottom of the ocean (or lake?) floor, it takes everything you have just to survive.  But whatever your troubles and pains, you always held your head high and reached for the stars above the waves.  And the sunlight.  Gotta love that sunlight.  Of course, whenever you are able, you are happy to lift a little extra from the chumps (and the chum) around you.

Each night, you may target one other player to steal something from them related to their flavour.  Depending on the target and what is stolen, this may have additional effects such as roleblocking them or granting you a 1-shot ability.

You may save stolen items that give 1-shots, but you can only carry one of each (no saving multiples).  You can only use one 1-shot at a time, and you can’t steal on the same night that you use a 1-shot.

Insomniac:

Flavour name: Electric Shepherd
Role name: Dreaming God
Alignment: Town

Abilities:

Life is but a dream, and your dream consists mostly of static and steel wool.  You are the Electric Shepherd.  You have a large herd of Electric Sheep. 

Each Sheep is programmed with a special 1-shot ability.   Most of these have some large-scale effect which may be positive or negative.  You must choose one to activate each night.  You are not told what they do, if anything at all.  Most (if not all) powers will be announced somehow in the morning flavour.

Your sheep powers (in no particular order) are:

• Edgy Machine Pacifier -- a sheep for the restless android.
• Super Solar Panels -- a shot of energy when you’re running low on juice.
• Full Moon Simulator -- it sure is pretty!
• Cryogenic Technology -- some call it madness, we call it progress.
• Electric Fleece -- quite stylish, for machines and meatbags alike.
• Android Market -- supply and demand.
• Android v 4.0 -- sounds delicious.
• Surround Sound -- turn it up to 11.
• Electronic Polling Station -- for your electoral needs.
• Power Cycle -- did you try rebooting it?
• Memory Stick -- make up your mind already.
• Download -- there’s an app for that.

[eHalcyon]

Captain_Frisk:

Flavour name: Jack-Knife of All Trades
Role name: 2-Shot Strongman
Alignment: Evil League of Evil

Abilities:

You’ve always been good with weapons.  A nice traditional Candlestick or Lead Pipe, an unabridged copy of Moby-Dick, or even a bob-omb strapped to a man-eating Capybara -- you are able to kill just about anyone with just about anything.  Thanks to your great new job with the League, you are now able to do what you enjoy most and get paid for doing it!  You sure are living the dream.

You share a QT with your fellow League members here:

http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/YH3MWe7bmkDg

When you perform the League’s Night Kill, if you have any shots remaining, you may choose to make your kill unblockable (breaks through doctor protection, bulletproof, etc.). 

You may always choose the flavour for your kill.  For example, you may make it appear as though the target was killed by a lightsaber, or crushed by a herd of rampaging wildebeests, or simultaneously all three of “shot by a gun, stabbed by a knife and torn apart by a wolf”.  You may do whatever you want so long as it is within reason (e.g. you cannot leave a note on the body implicating some other player by name). 

Even when you are not performing the kill, you must choose to have at least one weapon equipped.  It does not have to be a conventional weapon, though it should be at least slightly menacing or dangerous in some way.  Choose your weapon now, on night 0.  Note that your chosen weapon need not be used on your next kill.

Eevee:

Flavour name: Sartorial Cyborg
Role name: 2-Shot Ninja
Alignment: Evil League of Evil

Abilities:

Though once a hardened criminal, your prison rehabilitation program opened your eyes to the wonderful world of sartorial workmanship.  You became quite attached to your lovely 3-speed Sewing Machine.  And then you literally became attached to it.  You don’t remember if it was a secret government experiment gone wrong or if you had simply gotten overambitious with sewing patterns, but you are now far more than a regular human -- more machine than man, certainly.  Of course, the only logical plan was to become a super villain.  Joining the League is just a stepping stone on your path to eternal glory and sequin ball gowns.

You share a QT with your fellow League members here:

http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/YH3MWe7bmkDg

When you perform the League’s Night Kill, if you have any shots remaining, you may choose to delay your kill to some time in the day, rendering it invisible -- that is, Watchers and Trackers will not see you targeting anyone that night.  This is because you are wearing a special Cloak of your own manufacture.  Yes, that’s right.  You are a machine that made a Cloak that hides your presence.  You are a Cloaking Device.  Yes, all this flavour has just been elaborate setup for this one single pun.

Anyway, your target must still be chosen at night, but you may PM me during the day when you want that target to die (note: the kill will not occur until I come online, so you should not rely on it being instantaneous).  If you do not send in a PM during the day, the target will die at the end of the day.

shraeye:

Flavour name: Ancient Oak Tree
Role name: 1-Shot Deathproof
Alignment: Evil League of Evil

Ability:

You were raised on sunlight and water.  Except the sunlight was really gamma radiation.  And the water was really the tears of your enemies.  And maybe some blood too.  Definitely some blood.

Whatever the case, you are pretty much the most malevolent Oak tree around.  It’s a little harder to judge if you consider all deciduous trees, and certainly there are some really crazy conifers out there, but out of all the Oak trees you are definitely the most evil.  Well, top three.  Definitely top three in your home forest.

You share a QT with your fellow League members here:

http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/YH3MWe7bmkDg

When you perform the League Night Kill, the death flavour will always be plant-related.  When you would be killed in any way, you lose one shot of your Deathproof instead.  Flavour will make note of when you become a Tree Stump (it will be a little more flavourful than that, of course).  Your alignment will not be revealed until you actually die.  When you have 0 Shots remaining, you become a Tree Stump, at which point you may truly be killed.  Even as a Stump you may still vote and perform your factional Night Kill.

cayvie:

Flavour name: Red Herring
Role name: Inventor
Alignment: Serial Killer

Abilities:

Whenever a crime is committed, the authorities always seem to come to you.  It has never been your fault, yet you are always the first suspect.  The most recent case was the last straw.  Why in the world would you steal a temperament strip?  You don’t even know the first thing about pianos!  No, you’ve suffered enough from all those fools.  This time you’ll be the one doing the dastardly deeds, and if you have your way you will be the last fish that anyone suspects.

You are an investigation-immune Serial Killer.  And you’re backed up by a huge school of your fiendish fishy friends.

Each night, you may target one player to receive a one-shot Fish.  They receive the Fish in the morning.  They will be told that they can use the Fish in addition to their regular night action, but they will not be told what the fish does.  If a player does not (attempt to) use their Fish on the night that they have it (i.e. the night after you target them), they die.

You will give out Red Fishes on odd nights and Blue Fishes on even nights.

Red Fish: 1-shot night kill (they may self-target).  If they use it on you, they will die instead and you will gain the Red Fish for your own use.  This special Red Fish is a one-shot that you can use on any night INSTEAD OF handing out one of your regular fishes.

Blue Fish: 1-shot Cop, sort of.  Targets two players (they may self-target).  If the players are...

You+Townie: fish tells user it is unlikely that either of you are scum.
You+Scum or 2 Townies: fish user dies.
2 Scum or Townie+Scum (not you): fish tells user that there is a chance that it is feasibly possible that at least one of the two players is perhaps scum maybe.

It’s mostly a delayed night kill either way.

Death flavour will indeed be fish-related.

You win when everyone else is dead, or nothing can prevent that from happening.

[eHalcyon]

I still don't understand the flavour of each day.

Or N1's kills.

Or much of anything. :-/

Was there a running theme?

N1 kills was 100% me.  I killed with both the glove / strangulation AND the vanilla ice cream scoop.

I called it. Gratz scum, however I think choosing flavour is bastard.

I don't think it was that bad.  It only became a huge advantage because Archetype revealed too much before the flip.  If that hadn't happened, they couldn't have rigged it quite so well.  Scum heavily underestimated it though, Volt and I actually did as well in the design phase.  That said, we also underestimated the effect of zombies.  When scum had such a huge lead, I did not expect zombie Galz to turn it around so handily.

Many more thoughts like this in the mod notes QT.

[shraeye]

Aha! I suspected cayvie's fish did something more like that than what was claimed!

[Galzria]

Man, reading the mod-QT is depressing.

[eHalcyon]

@eHal WHAT DO MY ABILITIES DO!

I open this up for everyone to guess!  Here is the list again:

• Edgy Machine Pacifier -- a sheep for the restless android.
• Super Solar Panels -- a shot of energy when you’re running low on juice.
• Full Moon Simulator -- it sure is pretty!
• Cryogenic Technology -- some call it madness, we call it progress.
• Electric Fleece -- quite stylish, for machines and meatbags alike.
• Android Market -- supply and demand.
• Android v 4.0 -- sounds delicious.
• Surround Sound -- turn it up to 11.
• Electronic Polling Station -- for your electoral needs.
• Power Cycle -- did you try rebooting it?
• Memory Stick -- make up your mind already.
• Download -- there’s an app for that.

[Insomniac]

@eHal WHAT DO MY ABILITIES DO!

I open this up for everyone to guess!  Here is the list again:

• Edgy Machine Pacifier -- a sheep for the restless android.
• Super Solar Panels -- a shot of energy when you’re running low on juice.
• Full Moon Simulator -- it sure is pretty!
• Cryogenic Technology -- some call it madness, we call it progress.
• Electric Fleece -- quite stylish, for machines and meatbags alike.
• Android Market -- supply and demand.
• Android v 4.0 -- sounds delicious.
• Surround Sound -- turn it up to 11.
• Electronic Polling Station -- for your electoral needs.
• Power Cycle -- did you try rebooting it?
• Memory Stick -- make up your mind already.
• Download -- there’s an app for that.

Well we know that surround sound played a song of my choosing and modified the flavour.
Also that Super Solar Panel charged up ALL the X-Shot abilities. and raised all the zombies.

[eHalcyon]

All Actions: https://docs.google.com/a/ualberta.ca/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkdRmlQTs9QwdE8tNTlHMTJrZC16Z2NrRU1CakYxTEE&pli=1

[Galzria]

Cryogenic Technologies could've caused the following day to be over instantly - freezing everybody for a day, thus allowing back-to-back nights.

[Jorbles]

Frisk:
"I woke up with a nightmare that jorbles had survived, and that Galz had been killed with a bad ass fingerless glove.

I had been framed!"

Best dream ever.

[eHalcyon]

@eHal WHAT DO MY ABILITIES DO!

I open this up for everyone to guess!  Here is the list again:

• Edgy Machine Pacifier -- a sheep for the restless android.
• Super Solar Panels -- a shot of energy when you’re running low on juice.
• Full Moon Simulator -- it sure is pretty!
• Cryogenic Technology -- some call it madness, we call it progress.
• Electric Fleece -- quite stylish, for machines and meatbags alike.
• Android Market -- supply and demand.
• Android v 4.0 -- sounds delicious.
• Surround Sound -- turn it up to 11.
• Electronic Polling Station -- for your electoral needs.
• Power Cycle -- did you try rebooting it?
• Memory Stick -- make up your mind already.
• Download -- there’s an app for that.

Well we know that surround sound played a song of my choosing and modified the flavour.
Also that Super Solar Panel charged up ALL the X-Shot abilities. and raised all the zombies.

The zombies thing was not separate.  If you read carefully, you'll see that Lekkit's power grants players "1-Shot Alive".  This becomes the rechargeable power for that player.  While Galz was a zombie, ash could have recharged him to keep him alive for another day.

[shraeye]

@eHal WHAT DO MY ABILITIES DO!

I open this up for everyone to guess!  Here is the list again:

• Edgy Machine Pacifier -- a sheep for the restless android.

(JAILKEEPS ALL ROBOTS/CYBORGS)
   

• Super Solar Panels -- a shot of energy when you’re running low on juice.
• Full Moon Simulator -- it sure is pretty!

(STARTS ANOTHER NIGHT CYCLE IMMEDIATELY, SKIPPING THE DAY)
   

• Cryogenic Technology -- some call it madness, we call it progress.
• Electric Fleece -- quite stylish, for machines and meatbags alike.
• Android Market -- supply and demand.
• Android v 4.0 -- sounds delicious.
• Surround Sound -- turn it up to 11.

(MUSIC, OBVIOUSLY)
   

• Electronic Polling Station -- for your electoral needs.

(TELLS INSOM HOW MANY SCUM/TOWN ARE LEFT)
   

• Power Cycle -- did you try rebooting it?

(RANDOMLY BUSDRIVES ALL TARGETS AROUND)
   

• Memory Stick -- make up your mind already.
• Download -- there’s an app for that.

guesses in CAPS, not entirely complete.

[eHalcyon]

Cryogenic Technologies could've caused the following day to be over instantly - freezing everybody for a day, thus allowing back-to-back nights.

There is a power sort of like that, but that's not the one.  It is mentioned in the mod notes QT though.

Not sure how long to let people guess.  I think I will go for lunch and then reveal when I return.

[Galzria]

Frisk:
"I woke up with a nightmare that jorbles had survived, and that Galz had been killed with a bad ass fingerless glove.

I had been framed!"

Best dream ever.

His subconscious channeling proof that

If I were scum, I would NK Galzria.

[Captain_Frisk]

just saw this in the mod notes and laughed again.  I was so pissed that I was busted immediately.

CF sent me a PM:


We're in the matrix, so the normal rules don't don't apply. I know kung fu, I can fly helicopters, and I can daykill:

DayKill: Watno


Good try, CF. Good try.

[jotheonah]

I can't believe my initial theory about being framed was right all along. It turns out choose-your-own flavor kill is actually very powerful.

[Captain_Frisk]

I can't believe my initial theory about being framed was right all along. It turns out choose-your-own flavor kill is actually very powerful.

I can't help it that one of you guys went crazy and gave me the perfect flavor to use.

[eHalcyon]

Things for ftl and Robz:

Red Herring / Animal / A Fish (Thief gains fish instead of original target; Thief will not die from it.)

JKoaT / Animal / One of the weapons used (roleblocks if only one weapon was used), or the "equipped "weapon if JKoaT is not performing the kill.  Thief gains 1-shot Vig with that weapon.

Sartorial Cyborg / Mineral / Translucent Battery (roleblocks)

Ancient Oak Tree / Plant / Handful of Oak leaves (roleblocks)

Vanilla Townie / Plant / Scoop of Vanilla (gains doc protection that night instead of original target; Thief can use the scoop)

Strawberry Townie / Plant / Scoop of Strawberry (roleblocks; Thief can use the scoop)

Chocolate Townie / Plant / Scoop of Chocolate (roleblocks; Thief can use the scoop)

Spiritual Medium / Animal / Crystal Ball

Insane Doctor / Animal / Bones (zombie may only make one post before dying, will not get to use night power)

Motivational Speaker Bot / Mineral / Casette Tape containing the message, if a message was sent (roleblocks, Thief receives message)

Major-General Stanley / Animal / A little more complicated:
-- If MGS has Lessons stored up, the Thief steals the oldest one not being used.
-- If MGS has no Lessons but is receiving a new one that night, the Thief steals the new Plan.
-- If MGS is using his only Lesson, the Thief steals it, thus roleblocking MGS.

CMYK War Machine 3000 / Mineral / Paintball, which explodes (becomes Watched, randomly replacing one of the original targets)

External Hard Drive / Mineral / USB Cable (HD no longer gets new powers but can target one player each night to search for the Cable; Thief may choose to return the Cable at any time; power is regained when Cable is retrieved.)

KELPtomaniac / Vegetable / (Can’t steal from self)

Electric Shepherd / Mineral / Random unused electric sheep (may be used by the Thief.)




I think that Robz' power was underestimated, but he never got a chance to really investigate much or put those results to use.

[Watno]

I still don't understand the flavour of each day.

Or N1's kills.

Or much of anything. :-/

Was there a running theme?

N1 kills was 100% me.  I killed with both the glove / strangulation AND the vanilla ice cream scoop.

I called it. Gratz scum, however I think choosing flavour is bastard.

I don't think it was that bad.  It only became a huge advantage because Archetype revealed too much before the flip.  If that hadn't happened, they couldn't have rigged it quite so well.  Scum heavily underestimated it though, Volt and I actually did as well in the design phase.  That said, we also underestimated the effect of zombies.  When scum had such a huge lead, I did not expect zombie Galz to turn it around so handily.

Many more thoughts like this in the mod notes QT.

it was still a very fun game, but when you emphasized you were not a bastard mode i was sure one ice cram guy had to be scum.

Was there anything we could have read out of the flavour.

[Voltgloss]

Memes I made for the "meme update" but were rejected as either too revealing or not fitting the update:

Two in CF's honor:




And one for Robz:

[Galzria]

Still reading QT's, but man are there some terribly funny conversations.

[Robz888]

Hahahaha. Hahaha. Haha.

Ha.

[Jorbles]

I can't believe my initial theory about being framed was right all along. It turns out choose-your-own flavor kill is actually very powerful.

Holy crap yes. This power just dominated the discussion for like the first 4 days.

[Galzria]

I am SHOCKED, by the way, that I'm the only person who got ftl's claim D1 for exactly what it was.

[jotheonah]

Galz, I'm reeling over how we managed to second-guess ourselves into a loss there. I'm pretty sure scum will never kill me as town again - I'm way too valuable to them alive at LyLo.

[Dsell]

I'm just so sad...we'd solved it...we'd solved it.............

[Jorbles]

I'm sad I was never zombied. I could (and would) have blocked shraeye!

[Galzria]

Galz, I'm reeling over how we managed to second-guess ourselves into a loss there. I'm pretty sure scum will never kill me as town again - I'm way too valuable to them alive at LyLo.

You and me both. Add this to my list with M-VIII and M-XIII as well, where I blew it in lylo.

[Captain_Frisk]

And lets not discuss the MIX, where you buddied up to your #1 scum read - who was town?

[Captain_Frisk]

This game is evil.

[Insomniac]

And lets not discuss the MXIV, where you buddied up to your #1 scum read - who was town?

[Galzria]

And lets not discuss the MXIV, where you buddied up to your #1 scum read - who was town?

I meant that, not M-XIII, which I typed, yet obviously is not in lylo, nor over.

[Galzria]

Following the Boneyard trail is hilarious.

[Eevee]

so the postman-thing in my flavour was totally made up. it was very amusing to see it mentioned multiple times even after i died.

I'm going to say this again, playing as scum after aaaall those town games was so incredibly fun. Especially so because I had no scum meta yet.

[Dsell]

so the postman-thing in my flavour was totally made up. it was very amusing to see it mentioned multiple times even after i died.

I'm going to say this again, playing as scum after aaaall those town games was so incredibly fun. Especially so because I had no scum meta yet.

Day 1, man, day 1. Teaching me to never second-guess myself as much as I did day 1. #571

[Galzria]

Boneyard IV was painful to read.

[Captain_Frisk]

Boneyard IV was painful to read.

I found it quite enjoyable.  My favorite boneyard yet!

[Dsell]

Boneyard IV was painful to read.

These last couple of days have been killing me. KILLING. ME.

I felt so stupid for doing THREE THINGS to screw the town, yet we STILL had a chance and you were leaning Asher.

SO MUCH ANGST.

[Captain_Frisk]

I still haven't gone and looked at this spec qt, but the Galz trolling as joth causing the day whatever explosion was HILARIOUS

[Dsell]

I am sure Dsell just flat-out failed to recheck cayvie's PM and is going to feel really foolish when the blue fish kills him.

UNDERSTATEMENT OF THE MILLENNIUM

[Captain_Frisk]

So how come nobody bought my day vig claim? 

[Eevee]

So how come nobody bought my day vig claim?

I liked it.

[Captain_Frisk]

I figured I was dead no matter what, but getting an extra day while lynching the SK was totally worth it.

[Captain_Frisk]

I thought I had it too when you all started unvoting.

[Captain_Frisk]

Poor Volt:

Up to eHalc how he wants to handle that.

Did you enjoy my day vig claim?

You sent me on a read and doubleread of the whole setup to make sure I hadn't missed something. 

[Galzria]

So how come nobody bought my day vig claim?

Because nothing happened, thus there was no reason to believe that it was anything other than fluff designed to try and keep you alive - which is exactly what it was.

[Insomniac]

So how come nobody bought my day vig claim?

Because it failed?

[jotheonah]

BWAHAHA drunk Glooble in the speccy almost giving Galz away.

[jotheonah]

Galz, did you actually put any effort into trying to sound like me? why did you pick me to impersonate anyway? I definitely don't speak latin.

[Galzria]

BWAHAHA drunk Glooble in the speccy almost giving Galz away.

The amount of trolling going on in that thread - BOTH ways - was awesome. Ozle made a good partner and kept me company in lonely times.

[jotheonah]

you are literally having a conversation with yourself in there.

[Galzria]

Galz, did you actually put any effort into trying to sound like me? why did you pick me to impersonate anyway? I definitely don't speak latin.

Nosce Te Ipsum?

"Know Thyself"

It was a clue that I wasn't who I seemed. It was also written above the Oracle's door in the Matrix when Neo went to see her.

[Galzria]

you are literally having a conversation with yourself in there.

;DDD

[Insomniac]

Also.

Insomniac Day 1 "Who cares about Neo we should just lynch him"
Galzria Day 1 "NEO MUST BE THE MOST IMPORTANT"


End of game, we now know there is no neo. Score 1 Insomniac!

[Galzria]

By the way, it was mentioned in the Mod QT that even the mods had no clue what I meant about an important or powerful townie such as Neo.

I drew the belief from the opening post in the Spectator thread from eHal:

"If you play an important part in helping town catch scum, or helping scum take down a powerful player, you may be recognized with a post game honourable mention."

[ashersky]

Well, that sucked.  That's twice I've been the final mislynch to lose a game for town.

Lesson there might be I should just lynch myself on D1 every game to ensure this situation doesn't happen.

How in the world can I seem scummier than Shraeye this game?  And lynched while sleeping again...

Big congrats to Shraeye, of course.

[Insomniac]

Well, that sucked.  That's twice I've been the final mislynch to lose a game for town.

Lesson there might be I should just lynch myself on D1 every game to ensure this situation doesn't happen.

How in the world can I seem scummier than Shraeye this game?  And lynched while sleeping again...

Big congrats to Shraeye, of course.

I thought you were way town.

[Dsell]

Well, that sucked.  That's twice I've been the final mislynch to lose a game for town.

Lesson there might be I should just lynch myself on D1 every game to ensure this situation doesn't happen.

How in the world can I seem scummier than Shraeye this game?  And lynched while sleeping again...

Big congrats to Shraeye, of course.

I thought you were way town.

So clearly town.

Shraeye was OBVscum. Ugh.

For all of my wailing, moaning, and gnashing of teeth, this game has been incredible. Absolutely incredible. I've never been as invested in a game except maybe towards the end of MIV. eHal was phenomenal and I'm not sure I'm going to be able to pass up any Role Madness from him ever.

[Voltgloss]

Well, that sucked.  That's twice I've been the final mislynch to lose a game for town.

Lesson there might be I should just lynch myself on D1 every game to ensure this situation doesn't happen.

No no no, absolutely NOT the lesson to be learned!  Try it again, don't give up!! 

There were a LOT of factors that went into this game's final result.

[Galzria]

Well, that sucked.  That's twice I've been the final mislynch to lose a game for town.

Lesson there might be I should just lynch myself on D1 every game to ensure this situation doesn't happen.

How in the world can I seem scummier than Shraeye this game?  And lynched while sleeping again...

Big congrats to Shraeye, of course.

You can blame me.

Then Insomniac.

Then Dsell.

Then me again.

But ultimately Insomniac.

It was a terrible run for us that on the night the game was to be won, Insomniac kept Shraeye alive. Even worse, he brought me back, and I, after having gone 3 for 3 in the scum department, decided for no good reason (There were SOME, but they were obviously wrong anyway) to not only double guess myself for, like, the millionth time, but I also convinced Joth to follow my lead.

Absolutely terrible. I think Volt summed it up best:

I snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.

Sorry.

[Galzria]

((BTW, I'm joking about blaming Insomniac. You can just blame me.))

[eHalcyon]

• Edgy Machine Pacifier (EMP) -- all other robots (basically all mineral-classified roles) are put to sleep (roleblocked) that night.  This is mainly negative for the town.
• Super Solar Panels -- every X-shot role gains an additional shot.  The Ice Cream neighborhood gains 3 cumulative shots.  This is neutral?  The League gets a huge benefit, but so does the town.
• Full Moon Simulator -- Flavour indicates that there is a full moon.  SK, random League player, random Ice Cream player and random someone else all get a vial of silver.  If targeted by the thief, the silver will be stolen alongside the regular item.  None of this has any real impact on the game.  This is neutral.
• Cryogenic Technology -- The three most recently dead players are revived for approximately three IRL days.  They cannot vote.  This is usually positive for the town.
• Electric Fleece -- The fleece appears in the morning flavour with hints that anybody can pick it up and put it on.  First person that does so obtains it.  If that player is killed, the fleece goes to the killer (if by lynch, to the hammer; if by fish, it drops to the ground and can be picked up again in the morning).  Like the vials of silver, it is thief-able.  If the wearer is targeted by Thief AND is killed, it goes to the Thief.  If the wearer is killed by multiple people, it goes to whoever submitted the kill first (by PM timestamp).  If the wearer is killed by the Ninja, it is free for anyone to pick up.  This item is often positive since it makes it harder for scum to kill townie without detection, but it can also lead to difficult scenarios for townies (e.g. Thief, MGS with Vig power).  Flavour-wise, this is inspired by MacGuffins (oft-unexplained plot devices that all the characters want, e.g. the Maltese Falcon).  MacGuffins are also called Golden Fleece.   Whoever has the Fleece at the end of the game gets an honourable mention.
• Android Market -- A fish market opens, lasting for 3 days.  Players are informed that they may trade in any fish they have for Green Fish by PM (also comes with eggs and ham).  Green Fish targets one player, and is basically a hot potato.  The night the Market closes, all players with a Green Fish die (except for the SK).  This is mostly good for the town, because they survive longer than with the Red and Blue fish.
• Android v 4.0 -- Dreaming God gains access to the Ice Cream QT.  Very positive for the town!
• Surround Sound -- The player is instructed to pick their favourite music.  This music is heard by everyone.  This is neutral.
• Electronic Polling Station -- One less vote is needed to lynch.  Mostly neutral?
• Power Cycle -- All other night actions are cancelled (one-shots not used up).  The next lynch will fail.  Basically it cancels out a whole day/night cycle, but leaves plenty to talk about.  Neutral, probably a bit better for town (more info via day talk).
• Memory Stick -- Nobody is able to unvote for the next day.  This is probably bad for town, since there’s a good chance it leads to no lynch.
• Download -- If Universal Backup is alive, UB becomes confirmed townie to the Dreaming God.  If UB is dead, the Dreaming God uses UB’s power (that is, he gets to use the power of the most recently dead player).  This is good for the town.

[Voltgloss]

And yet without your leadership mid-game Galz, I don't think town could have turned things around from CF's masterful framing of the Ice Cream Neighborhood.

No single person can take all the blame, or take all the credit, for this game's result.  It was right down to the wire, it swung one way to the other to a third way (there was a time there where it looked like cayvie was going to win!) and then back around again... that's the nature of the game.

It was Role Madness.  It was swingy.  And yet, somehow, all those swings crashed together into something that was - dare I say it? - balanced.  (Or at least as balanced as Role Madness can get.)

Terrific, terrific game, eHalc.  And terrific gameplay by all participants.  Don't beat yourselves up; none of you deserve it.

[eHalcyon]

Votes for MVP?  I nominate both Galz and shraeye.  Galz for turning the tide as a zombie, shraeye for excellent acting throughout the entire game that allowed him to win the face-off with ashersky.

[Dsell]

To sum up my failures (made oh-so-much worse by the fact that I was CONFIDENT that I'd solved the setup):

I got the blue fish but only went back to read the last part of cayvie's PM, so I missed the part about how not using it would kill me. I figured she might be lying about the results of investigation so simply not using the fish would be best. If I'd just used it safely I would have been alive longer and almost certainly would have let the town win. Fail.

I failed to mention that Frisk's power let him choose the flavor of the kill. It looks like Lekkit figured this out somehow, but this would have at least really cut down on the confusion for town in the final days. I don't know how I failed to realize that Frisk's power perfectly explained all of town's discrepancies.

I revived Insomniac instead of Jorbles. The plan during the day was that Lekkit would revive Jorbles, who would block Shraeye the next night to practically ensure us the win. When Lekkit died and I got one use of his power I thought it was great that we'd get to revive yet another town player. Of course, it was too late at that point for me to get clarification about the timing of the recharge...simply reviving Jorbles, even if it was an overlap, almost surely would have won us the game.

So, ya know. I'm just dying over here. It truly was a comedy of errors. This game has featured both my best play (getting the massclaim to happen and then figuring out the scum team) and my worst play (above). Woo.

[eHalcyon]

Major thanks to Voltgloss for being a great co-mod.  Vote counts and day ends, memes, and lots of good discussion over proper resolution of night actions.

[Lekkit]

This game was awesome! We were getting it handed to us suuuuuper hard in the beginning, but zombie Galz managed to get us on the right track, and then we stumbled on the finishing line. Trying to figure out all of the powers were fun. Even as town. I'm baffled at the fact that nobody else noted that CF could write his own flavour, bit then, I misses a lot of important stuff.

Again, loved it. It was super crazy and fun. I was a bit frustrated when people accused me of being scum when I revived Galz, but as it turned out, most od those suspiciois of me were scum themselves.

Oh, I loved the game. Big time.

[Voltgloss]

I was a bit frustrated when people accused me of being scum when I revived Galz, but as it turned out, most od those suspiciois of me were scum themselves.

The best was when Galz went conspiracy-theory and suspected you of being scum for reviving Galz - notwithstanding your flip!

[Galzria]

I was a bit frustrated when people accused me of being scum when I revived Galz, but as it turned out, most od those suspiciois of me were scum themselves.

The best was when Galz went conspiracy-theory and suspected you of being scum for reviving Galz - notwithstanding your flip!

I must honour eHal in eHal games. He's the conspiracy theory master. I just try to do justice.

[Archetype]

Even though I was lynched D1, this was a really awesome game. So fun to watch and I had no idea what was going on.

Too bad ELoE won. Me, and most other people in the Boneyard had him pinned as scum.

Glad Eevee got what he deserved 

[Captain_Frisk]

I'm so angry that I got tagged day 1, because my ability to write the kill flavor had so much potential.

Crushed by a falling piano
Run over by a sentient car

[eHalcyon]

One other way that shraeye could have been caught -- look at ftl's death flavour.  It is in blue and involves grass.  Makes more sense for the plant, no?

[Eevee]

Glad Eevee got what he deserved 

A win?

[Galzria]

One other way that shraeye could have been caught -- look at ftl's death flavour.  It is in blue and involves grass.  Makes more sense for the plant, no?

The "One of each" was a strong, if unverified possibility. We had killed one Mineral and one Animal... (still surprised nobody else caught ftl's D1 roleclaim).

[eHalcyon]

One other way that shraeye could have been caught -- look at ftl's death flavour.  It is in blue and involves grass.  Makes more sense for the plant, no?

The "One of each" was a strong, if unverified possibility. We had killed one Mineral and one Animal... (still surprised nobody else caught ftl's D1 roleclaim).

Yeah, I thought it was fairly clear.

Oh, Troll Award goes to Ozle.

Still looking for MVP nominations from others.

[Jorbles]

One other way that shraeye could have been caught -- look at ftl's death flavour.  It is in blue and involves grass.  Makes more sense for the plant, no?

The "One of each" was a strong, if unverified possibility. We had killed one Mineral and one Animal... (still surprised nobody else caught ftl's D1 roleclaim).

Yeah, I thought it was fairly clear.

Oh, Troll Award goes to Ozle.

Still looking for MVP nominations from others.

I wish I could nominate Galzria or Dsell who both pulled off some awesome play (but then made mistakes that undid their awesome play), but in the end I think I'd have to nominate Frisk. His early game play just destroyed the town, and he did almost all of it while fake claiming. He even kept up some epic trolling in the boneyard.

[Robz888]

Frisk is obvMVP here.

[Galzria]

One other way that shraeye could have been caught -- look at ftl's death flavour.  It is in blue and involves grass.  Makes more sense for the plant, no?

The "One of each" was a strong, if unverified possibility. We had killed one Mineral and one Animal... (still surprised nobody else caught ftl's D1 roleclaim).

Yeah, I thought it was fairly clear.

Oh, Troll Award goes to Ozle.

Still looking for MVP nominations from others.

Trolling with Ozle was fun. There was only a very brief time when I thought he might actually be a player in the game. Then I checked his BMMMMM topics and noticed his name was Starred there, which meant I was indeed talking to the real Ozle and not some imposter. After that it was mostly each of us in turn calling the other obvscum while sorting though all the claims and trying to be "more right" than each other. Good times.

[ashersky]

Eevee, can you now confirm you actually got my message?

[Eevee]

Eevee, can you now confirm you actually got my message?

I did. My role pm didn't really say anything about you though.

[ashersky]

Eevee, can you now confirm you actually got my message?

I did. My role pm didn't really say anything about you though.

Well, if my flip wasn't enough, post-game confirmation of my not-lying-ness.

[Archetype]

Glad Eevee got what he deserved 

A win?

Hah, no your death

[Archetype]

As for MVP, I think Galzria is most deserving of it.

[ashersky]

As for MVP, I think Galzria is most deserving of it.

I think it has to be Shraeye.  Winning team and all that.  And somehow convincing everyone to let him live.

[Captain_Frisk]

I concur!  He led the charge.  Couldn't have done it without him!

[Archetype]

As for MVP, I think Galzria is most deserving of it.

I think it has to be Shraeye.  Winning team and all that.  And somehow convincing everyone to let him live.

True, but Galzria is the one who shed some light onto what was going on.

I wouldn't be unhappy if Shraeye got MVP either. He did have a very convincing fakePM.

[Eevee]

Fwiw, shraeye did 90% of mine too. The parts I wrote were the parts that weren't believable.

[shraeye]

As for MVP, I think Galzria is most deserving of it.

I think it has to be Shraeye.  Winning team and all that.  And somehow convincing everyone to let him live.

True, but Galzria is the one who shed some light onto what was going on.

I wouldn't be unhappy if Shraeye got MVP either. He did have a very convincing fakePM.

The fakePM was just changing a few scummy words to give a better vibe to the post.  Most sentences are unchanged, all powers are unchanged.  I figured I couldn't copy eHalc's style, so I'd steal as much as I could.

[jotheonah]

Hey Galzria. by the way, for next time you impersonate me. When I post in quicktopics I use jtotheonah, with the T reinserted and a lowercase j. Had there been more people in the speccy who had been in QTs with me before that might have given you away.

[Galzria]

Yeah, I know you do. I left various clues throughout my posing to tip off observant players. However, there was only Ozle, and he abandoned me in my hour of need.

[eHalcyon]

Ozle actually noticed the difference and knew you weren't really jo.  I believe I made note of this in the mod notes QT.

[Galzria]

Ozle actually noticed the difference and knew you weren't really jo.  I believe I made note of this in the mod notes QT.

Only much later on did he comment on it in the QT - after the Dsell stuff began.

[Ozle]

I knew something was up when he didnt have the star next to him name, didnt know who it was. One of the reasons I was pushing for him being so scummy.

Also, how did you lose this game, I pretty much laid it all out for you!

Called out Frisk as scummy right from the outset
Told you Shraye was scum
After the Jo/Dsell doctor thing we all had Eevee pegged as scum.

Dissapointing to say the least!

[Galzria]

I knew something was up when he didnt have the star next to him name, didnt know who it was. One of the reasons I was pushing for him being so scummy.

Also, how did you lose this game, I pretty much laid it all out for you!

Called out Frisk as scummy right from the outset
Told you Shraye was scum
After the Jo/Dsell doctor thing we all had Eevee pegged as scum.

Dissapointing to say the least!

.....

[Ozle]

After you appeared to nuke the town in the beginning, then looked like you were going to save it...then didn't

Haha.

Dissapointed you didnt pick up on my Beetlejuice hint and get worried to be honest!

You said I scum slipped a few times in the QT, at least a couple of them were deliberate (as noted to ehalc at the time), so I am not surprised you didnt really trust me!