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[MiX]

Reads list!

Jimmmmmmmmmm's somewhat scummy. just because all he did this game was vote shraeye and...that's it really. His asking for someone to gun for him is also interesting: I'm assuming that he acts better as scum if he's under pressure, otherwise he wouldn't say this right? But really the case for him lies on faust's reason (since there's not much else about Jimmmmmmm), and I don't think that's good enough. But I will move to him if it gets support.

LaLight...pretty much the only content here is his vote on e...that's it really, he doesn't attempt to justify it, just "gut read" and "probable to be scum lynch". I think LL would try much harder to interact with everyone, especially as scum. But if he doesn't have time, then I think town!LL would try to be more upbeat, more joky, more positive; and I don't see this.

mcmc does some setup talk, briefly votes Uncle...then votes E twice. Comes back, says that he can vote Jimmmmmm or Glooble. I've seen mcmc be really good as town so I don't really want them dead, just put them in the list in case someone mentioned him.

Glooble seems to be thinking the same way as me, anyone else notice that? That makes me want to give him a townread...but really, he's scummy, because I don't recall him being like this in any other game...right? Wasn't he different, more open, more flimsy...I can definitly go here today.

Didds...well...other than the very direct question, she's null, given that I don't know her scum meta so I can't really say what's NAI or not...oh, except the e vote, that was just weird. However, I stand by what I've said a long time ago, that she's scum because of her slip, pretty simple, right?

Space has done a whole lot of nothing this game, are they not very active? I don't remember any post saying that. Their vote is currently on a NAI point and I don't think they've tried to move it: if you look at space's posts, half of them are just fluff...this is a perfect way to be active and not contribute anything (or very little) to the game.

The other 3'll have to be done tomorrow, but I don't really want neither of them to die.

Vote: Space, because, really, reread them, what have they done? Nothing. Yet they're not lurking, right?


TL;DR:

Null+ - mcmc, shraeye, e, Robz

Scummy - Jimmmmmm, Glooble, Didds

Scum - LaLight, Space

[Jimmmmm]

But really the case for him lies on faust's reason

As per my above post, would you say the same about the others who responded similarly?

[WestCoastDidds]

But really the case for him lies on faust's reason

As per my above post, would you say the same about the others who responded similarly?

Everyone who found MiX confusing (shraeye, me, you, Space, and CWL) are all on his lynch list now (well, except CWL). Perhaps he doesn’t enjoy scrutiny. Or perhaps what I/we thought was confusing was actually scummy.

[Uncleeurope]

Nah, he’s just confusing in general. Feel free to read his last game for examples of him doing that as town (and getting lynched for it)

He could be confusing and scummy, though, but confusing is just classic MiX.

[WestCoastDidds]

Ah, that’s helpful Eddie. Thanks

[raerae]

Ouch, so I don't even make the null list? I find this list extraordinarily suspect considering you didn't get everybody. Seems like you had an agenda going into this and it wasn't just to express reads.

[Glooble]

I'm not like I have been in other games. I am trying to learn from earlier games and be more helpful.

[raerae]

Ouch, so I don't even make the null list? I find this list extraordinarily suspect considering you didn't get everybody. Seems like you had an agenda going into this and it wasn't just to express reads.

Just actually counted and you missed half the players. Why include null reads if you don't include everybody in your read? I get saying "these are scummy, these are townie" but why include nulls at all if you aren't including everybody?

[SpaceAnemone]

For a few minutes, I was just gonna quit the game because seriously, my life has too much of that kind of treatment and I don’t need more “for fun”. But space and shraeye seem to think he’s out of line, too, so maybe my feelings aren’t coming out of nowhere.

Last night I was half way through making a post to say that if unapologetic aggressive behaviour is anything other than explicitly condemned by this community then I wanted to quit. Then I realised that I was just too frustrated to post, so I went to bed instead.

[SpaceAnemone]

All of that is nonsense to me. This fight is about nothing. Semantics and clarifications at best. Both of the players involved have played games before, there is no reason for offense to be taken here. MiX said something, WCD called them on it, MiX responded... and then the rest of it. Both players are operating way outside of the Town Norms I know them as. So my opinion is it is either Town vs Town or a planned interaction.

Just to offer you another perspective on this: it wasn't "a fight", it was MiX acting in a really rude way, and WCD stating entirely fairly that she wasn't willing to engage with that. The aggression was one-sided, and WCD's comments were statements of disengagement. I think she reacted exactly how I'd expect an adult woman who has her shit together to react when faced with an entitled young male.

However, I really don't think it's particularly alignment-indicative. If MiX's playstyle is to wind people up to see what they'll spill, he could be doing so as any alignment. It seems quite plausible that frustrated/annoyed town will say things that he can successfully twist to get a mislynch through.

I find him quite performative with it, which also makes me not read him as at all genuine. For instance, this is not what you post when you know you're worked up and should step away from the computer:

Sigh...okay, calm down, calm down, you can do this...

What you do is you go away and you don't post at all for a while. Similarly, his apology to WCD read as performance rather than sincere understanding to me. Anyway, I find him un-genuine, and as D1 scumminess goes, that ticks the boxes for me.

[SpaceAnemone]

Space has done a whole lot of nothing this game, are they not very active? I don't remember any post saying that. Their vote is currently on a NAI point and I don't think they've tried to move it: if you look at space's posts, half of them are just fluff...this is a perfect way to be active and not contribute anything (or very little) to the game.

I certainly don't find D1 easy. I like wagon analysis, and hunting for scum in interactions. I usually automate a vote counter (though I still haven't taken the time to set it up for this player-list, because there are quite a lot of new names and aliases), make myself a voting-state-by-voting-state view of the game, and then use that to narrow down likely scums, with mixed success.

My activity pattern is that I'm at work up till around 18.30/19.00 UK time, and I'll often read from there while waiting for numbers to crunch or something, but I try to limit my posting to a couple of posts at lunchtime or something because I don't want to set a bad example in my office. I'm often completely offline couple of hours after work, and usually the bulk of my posting for the day is 11pm-1am-ish, though I really should get to sleep earlier than this for the sake of my mental health.

Also, as most people who've played with me before know, I host a boardgames night (that used to be hosted by Haddock, who introduced me to f.ds Mafia in the first place) on a Thursday, so I'm generally not here.

[WestCoastDidds]

Vote: MiX

The more I look at that truncated reads list, and think about how many of those folks were involved in his “two vote” comment earlier, the way he treated me, then his vote on space, the more it feels like it this was a deliberate ploy

[Uncleeurope]

I don’t think MiX is a great option today, Scum don’t typically want to be antagonizers early. He’s shifty and weird, but he is also scumhunting emphatically early, when there is no need to do that as scum.

[faust]

That is so adorable. FoS: LaLight, because having 2 votes is double the power!

What did I miss?

Are you the double voter MiX?

When I saw the 2 votes thing I assumed there was a claim I hadn't seen.

Yeah, that was my immediate assumption; and when I looked for it it wasn't there.  Hence my need for an explanation.  And if WestCoast hadn't popped in with the question "are you double voter?" I sure as heck would have.

When I saw the 2 votes thing I assumed there was a claim I hadn't seen.

Same here.

faust: Given all of the above, why did you (cherry?) pick my post? Could you not make the exact same argument of shraeye, WCD and Chicken?

The intent of my post was to support WCD in a situation that seemed a little sour. I agreed with her reaction to MiX and I disagreed with his reaction to her. I also agree that they seem likely to be both Town.

WCD and shraeye posted before clarification, so there was still confusion to be lifted. Chickenwarlord is new, so this is more fogivable for them. If you had wanted to support WCD, you could have siad so, but you didn't.

[faust]

I would rather lynch Jimmmm or LaLight than Robz.

Why’s that?

I find them actively scummy and Robz just a little annoying.

[faust]

All of that is nonsense to me. This fight is about nothing. Semantics and clarifications at best. Both of the players involved have played games before, there is no reason for offense to be taken here. MiX said something, WCD called them on it, MiX responded... and then the rest of it. Both players are operating way outside of the Town Norms I know them as. So my opinion is it is either Town vs Town or a planned interaction.

Just to offer you another perspective on this: it wasn't "a fight", it was MiX acting in a really rude way, and WCD stating entirely fairly that she wasn't willing to engage with that. The aggression was one-sided, and WCD's comments were statements of disengagement. I think she reacted exactly how I'd expect an adult woman who has her shit together to react when faced with an entitled young male.

There is, however, a definite hint of aggression in this post.

I find him quite performative with it, which also makes me not read him as at all genuine. For instance, this is not what you post when you know you're worked up and should step away from the computer:

Sigh...okay, calm down, calm down, you can do this...

What you do is you go away and you don't post at all for a while. Similarly, his apology to WCD read as performance rather than sincere understanding to me. Anyway, I find him un-genuine, and as D1 scumminess goes, that ticks the boxes for me.

I do not see what any of this has to do with MiX's alignment. All I see is you disapproving of how MiX responded to criticism. I don't think we should incorporate disagreements on a personal level into the game if we can avoid it.

[faust]

Ouch, so I don't even make the null list? I find this list extraordinarily suspect considering you didn't get everybody. Seems like you had an agenda going into this and it wasn't just to express reads.

What would the agenda be?

I don't think this is making much sense at all. This is a big game, seems natural to focus on the players that you actually have something to say about. And forgive me, but you just have not been very memorable so far.

[Uncleeurope]

Are LL and Jimmmm equal in your eyes or do you see Jimmmmmmmm as scummier, hence the vote?

Aka, could you just as easily be voting LL?

[UmbrageOfSnow]

Waking up in the middle of the night 2 AM phone thought:

faust is actually right, Garak should target his guess for most likely NK and top scumread, and not crumb the NK guess.

If people are going to argue with the concept of having clearly had a top scumread at the end of the day I don't know what I'll do.

[MiX]

Quick post, just wanted to say that I agree with everything faust said, which includes why Jimmmmmmm's post is a little scummy, his comment on Space and...oh that's it. Looked like 3 things. Well not the "Robz is suspicious" part.

Ouch, so I don't even make the null list? I find this list extraordinarily suspect considering you didn't get everybody. Seems like you had an agenda going into this and it wasn't just to express reads.

What would the agenda be?

I don't think this is making much sense at all. This is a big game, seems natural to focus on the players that you actually have something to say about. And forgive me, but you just have not been very memorable so far.

I picked the people that I think will get lynched today (minus me), focusing on others is pointless if we want to get a lynch (close to, shraeye) done.

I also have a feeling I can read raerae well, but I want more info.

Vote: MiX

The more I look at that truncated reads list, and think about how many of those folks were involved in his “two vote” comment earlier, the way he treated me, then his vote on space, the more it feels like it this was a deliberate ploy

Coincidence: most of those were very active players + you, so of course they're valid lynch options.

PPE 1

[Swowl]

All of that is nonsense to me. This fight is about nothing. Semantics and clarifications at best. Both of the players involved have played games before, there is no reason for offense to be taken here. MiX said something, WCD called them on it, MiX responded... and then the rest of it. Both players are operating way outside of the Town Norms I know them as. So my opinion is it is either Town vs Town or a planned interaction.

In this game the odds of a planned interaction are kind of diluted given the possibility of skum teams so I am inclined to believe Town vs Town.

A) third parties don't get to decide when offense is allowed/is not allowed to be taken
B) it does not feel planned.  That is a terrible conclusion

MiX vs. WCD felt planned/planted, as posited by DatSwan. 

Absolutely not.  This idea needs to be buried immediately.

Excuse me, but if I may:

A) I did not attempt to state that offense should or should not be taken. All I said is that it seemed like nonsense, and I did not see the reason for offense to be taken. I even laid out a summarized amount of details on my reasoning.

B) Again mis-representing what I said - I said it was, in my opinion,  either Town vs Town or planner interaction. I made absolutely no conclusion whatsoever, other than the fact that I do not think that exactly one of the players is skum ---- this part is also directed at Ashes --- again I did not say that I thought it had to be planned. It could, imo, also be town vs town.

Shraeye - You are wrong. Not for your opinion, or disagreement with my assessment... but you are incorrect that the theory should be buried. It is Day 1 - we know nothing. Nothing should be buried.

[UmbrageOfSnow]

I won't be here at deadline, or for like 8+ hours before it, but I'll have plenty of time for this game tomorrow and will put my vote one someone we're actually going to lynch.

[Uncleeurope]

I will also be unavailable during a large hunk of time before deadline, depends on how late I stay up. I wouldn’t put much faith in me 4 hours before deadline at least.

[Chickenwarlord]

Well that's going to a be a bit of catching up. Y'all have been busy.

[Chickenwarlord]

MiX vs. WCD felt planned/planted, as posited by DatSwan. 

I don't see how anyone could read the initial back and forth and walk away with that from it.  Having to evaluate everything Ashersky says through the lens of someone who would jump on this conclusion bandwagon is going to be difficult.