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[AndrewisFTTW]

I understand where you're coming from, yuma. After all, I sat back watching you and ash debate Occum's Razor and assumptions for a while which I felt didn't really move the game forward. But I'm explaining my case on ash and we're having a debate about it. Anybody can jump in at any time but I apologize if it's not helpful.

[ashersky]

Sorry I'm not entertaining you.  Seems I'm just wasting everyone's time here.

Well I am not asking to be entertained...but I feel that the conversation has moved soooo far beyond me--and probably everyone else--that it has become a conversation just between you and andrew where I am guessing that it has more to do with pride (on both sides) and OMGUS (on both sides) and emotions (on both sides) than actual scumhunting...

If there is real scumhunting then it is getting lost in the layers of quotes and everything else. So i am not saying entertain me, but perhaps take a step back and present your case succinctly rather than just argue with Andrew about it? Not trying to hurt your feelings, just saying that I think what you are saying is being lost on most of us.

Bullet points for summary purposes, all of this is available in those posts you don't want to read:

1)  Scumslip where he accidentally showed he had more knowledge of the setup than a town player
2)  Flailing response to a small (at first) wagon based on that scumslip
3)  Argumentative in all responses to cases/points/posts against/about him; responses based on emotions/feelings instead of facts/words
4)  Strong claim at the end of D1 and yet survives N1 with two other players dying, suggesting he wasn't even targeted for a night kill and saved
5)  Delayed OMGUS (pro scum tactic)
6)  Buddying of Xerxes, yuma on D2
7)  Scum reads only on those who suspected him

[ashersky]

I understand where you're coming from, yuma. After all, I sat back watching you and ash debate Occum's Razor and assumptions for a while which I felt didn't really move the game forward. But I'm explaining my case on ash and we're having a debate about it. Anybody can jump in at any time but I apologize if it's not helpful.

If we had lynched you as I pressed from the beginning, we'd be that much closer to winning.  I lost the debate with yuma, you survived, congrats.

[yuma]

Should I just flip a coin and dayvig either andrew or ashersky to settle this argument?

[ashersky]

Should I just flip a coin and dayvig either andrew or ashersky to settle this argument?

I suggest alphabetical order.

[yuma]

Should I just flip a coin and dayvig either andrew or ashersky to settle this argument?

I suggest alphabetical order.

sounds fair to me...

[AndrewisFTTW]

Buddying where? And everyone save yuma and ADK have voted me (right?) So 7 isn't even a point of discussion. The others I've discussed endlessly. No need for more arguing because that would fall under number 3, which apparently is a scum tactic. So I'm done.

[Twistedarcher]

Should I just flip a coin and dayvig either andrew or ashersky to settle this argument?

No, I lean town on both.

[ashersky]

Buddying where? And everyone save yuma and ADK have voted me (right?) So 7 isn't even a point of discussion. The others I've discussed endlessly. No need for more arguing because that would fall under number 3, which apparently is a scum tactic. So I'm done.

  Uses false indignation to end the discussion.

[ashersky]

And that should be an 8).

[A Drowned Kernel]

Vote: AndrewisFTTW

[Witherweaver]

Vote: AndrewisFTTW

Why?  His reaction seems more justified today than on Day 1. 

[A Drowned Kernel]

I have a hard time believing scum would keep him alive with his power. I also just read over like four pages of him fighting with ash and he just seemed generally scummy.

[yuma]

Vote: AndrewisFTTW

didn't see that coming...

[yuma]

If... and this is a major if because I still think it is highly unlikely... Andrew is scum I would bet that ADK is also scum looking to bus now in D2

[A Drowned Kernel]

Looking back I feel like he hasn't posted anything in this game that hasn't been indignant fighting with ashersky. I would totally be on board with you dayvigging him.

[Jimmmmm]

If... and this is a major if because I still think it is highly unlikely... Andrew is scum I would bet that ADK is also scum looking to bus now in D2

And if Andrew is Town?

[Witherweaver]

If... and this is a major if because I still think it is highly unlikely... Andrew is scum I would bet that ADK is also scum looking to bus now in D2

I don't understand why that's more likely than the situation where Andrew is scum and ADK is town that thinks Andrew is scummy.

I haven't seen much at all to indicate ADK is scum, and that explanation makes sense, though there would be other reasons for scum not targeting Andrew (basically the same set that was discussed for you, except the part about controlling the dayvig).

[Witherweaver]

I was expecting yuma to be targeted for a NK and maybe doctored but I guess with two NKs he probably wasn't even targeted?  Or is there a good reason scum wouldn't target yuma for a NKS?

Okay I'm an idiot.  I thought when you said "wasn't even targeted" you meant wasn't targeted in any way, not even by the doctor.  Then I was confused because you had doctor.  But I think you just meant wasn't targeted for a night kill.

Yeah, but my post was still pointless.

I've been on the road for a few days playing physically exhausting music with very little sleep, so I apologize if I don't make sense sometimes. I think I was saying I was surprised yuma wasn't targeted for a NK and that since there were two NKs, I guess that means there's a third party. So yeah, nothing of importance and I suck. End.

Why did you post a pointless post?  And then why did you point out it was pointless?

You said what you said because yuma being alive, or others dying, or something triggered a reaction.  Why that happened in unclear.  It could be that you believed doctoring yuma would result in no deaths last night.  It could be that you tried to kill yuma last night and were surprised he lived.  But it means something, so you can't get us to stop thinking about it with a post like this.

Well the only ones who claimed if I remember correctly were me and yuma so I figured scum would lynch a vig over me so I was surprised when shraeye and faust were killed and yuma wasnt. That's about as far as that post goes. I know it's a dumb post, that's why I said it's pointless.

But.. arghh!  If you thought Yuma was the most likely to be lynched why wouldn't you use your doctor ability on him?  And if you did use your doctor ability, why would you be surprised when he wasn't killed?

Andrew did you ever respond to this?  I didn't see it. 

[AndrewisFTTW]

No and I'm not going to.

[Witherweaver]

Here is ash's sudgy vote, immediately after and in response to my claim. Notice there's no mention of the possibility of a fakeclaim. Ash's main priority right now is to get off my wagon ASAP instead of questioning anything, like he's doing now.

I can either doctor or roleblock. If someone targets me, I both doctor and roleblock my target.

vote: sudgy

What does that bolded line mean?  And where do you get that?  Taking quotes out of context and making up someone else's "main priority" is pretty scummy.  My main priority as we neared deadline after your claim was getting a lynch through.  Sudgy was the only other option.  You were believable enough to switch after that answer, so I switched.

I never should have bought your crap on D1, though.  It's clear you were lying through your teeth.

Andrewis has a point here.  If it was "believable enough" then, why isn't it now?

[XerxesPraelor]

No and I'm not going to.

townread on axxle

[XerxesPraelor]

I mean Andrew.

[xeiron]

I agree with a townread on Andrew. Witherweaver is acting towny as well, he has become a clear townread to me troughout D2.

[Witherweaver]

I agree with a townread on Andrew. Witherweaver is acting towny as well, he has become a clear townread to me troughout D2.

Okay, well, I can come up with a town reason, but  I would have liked to hear Andrewis say it.  I find that line of discussion really odd, but I don't have any scum reads on anything else he's said today.

Ash I still feel scummy about.  I don't know why he went gunning after Andrewis today.  It seemed to start out "okay I guess he's town" then moves to "nevermind you're a liar".

Yuma.. is an enigma.  But probably a town enigma.  Or he's an armed lunatic that is going to gun us all down. 

TwistedArcher .. Well, with a mislynch yesterday and two town PR's gone during the night, he was pretty much the first person to come out trying to find targets on Day 2.  He seemed to be looking at everything and considering options. Seems more like a town thing than a scum thing to me.  I think scum would want to stay quieter.

The rest of the people.. I don't really have much on.  I think they've all been very quiet. 

Jimm, Xeiron, Archetype, A Drowned Kernel (warned he would be gone), Xerxes.  In general I don't know what to think about this group as they all seem involved only very subtly. 

I guess I have some thoughts on Xerxes.  He flavor claimed out of the blue on day 1, and then role claimed unprompted on day 2.  And his target died, so the claim (which I assume would normally be easy to confirm) can't be confirmed.  Okay that's suspicious.  On the other hand, flavor and role match up pretty well.  Not what I would have guessed, but it makes sense.  Comes out voting Ash and I don't really follow his explanation.

Xeiron.  There was a lot of talk about him being super scummy towards the end of Day 1.  I think from Andrew.  I didn't really follow it, so I'll have to go back.

Archetype.. very quiet.  Comes out with a vote on Ash without much of a reason, except saying he wanted to do it yesterday.  I'm not sure why he wanted to do it yesterday.  And a very confusing argument about Andrew being alive incriminating Ash.  I don't think it makes sense.  If anything is to be gained from the Andrew is alive, ADK's point seemed more reasonable.  So suspicious.

Jimm.. everyone thinks he's scummy.  I don't recall much explanation though.  I'll have to look back here too.

A Drowned Kernel.  Hasn't said a lot, but he said he'd be absent. 

So, great, I'm back to being confused.  The person here I have a scum feeling on is Ash, and the two people that I find most suspicious otherwise are voting against Ash.   I think we need to hear more thoughts from the quiet crowd.