Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: 1 ... 5 6 [7] 8 9 ... 14  All

Author Topic: Is there a "good" and "bad" way to Win in Dominion?  (Read 93661 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

blueblimp

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2849
  • Respect: +1559
    • View Profile
Re: Is there a "good" and "bad" way to Win in Dominion?
« Reply #150 on: December 08, 2013, 06:09:26 pm »
0

You're looking at it backward. The 3-pile rule does not prevent boring Duchy rush games. Obviously, if the rule were only "Provinces empty", that would be just as effective at nerfing Duchy rushes.

Thus, there must be some problem with "Provinces empty" that caused Donald X to add on the additional "3 piles empty" condition.
Or maybe there just never was a "Provinces empty" version of the game, because Donald X. thought that the occasional Duchy rush might be interesting if it required something more. At least that's what the quote from Donald X. seems to imply. I could be wrong though; if you happen to have a quote or a link of Donald X. saying that there was a "Provinces empty" version which didn't work, please inform me about it.
It's irrelevant what Donald X says. He may have gone directly from "any victory pile empty" to "Provinces empty or any 3 piles empty" (although it's unimaginable that he didn't at least consider "Provinces empty" in his mind first), but this is a logical argument. "The three-pile-rule was made for the purpose of preventing boring Duchy rush games" only makes sense if the three-pile-rule somehow prevents Duchy rushes, which it doesn't at all.
Logged

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11815
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (´。• ω •。`)
  • Respect: +12860
    • View Profile
    • Birds of Necama
Re: Is there a "good" and "bad" way to Win in Dominion?
« Reply #151 on: December 08, 2013, 06:14:23 pm »
+1

It's irrelevant what Donald X says. He may have gone directly from "any victory pile empty" to "Provinces empty or any 3 piles empty" (although it's unimaginable that he didn't at least consider "Provinces empty" in his mind first), but this is a logical argument. "The three-pile-rule was made for the purpose of preventing boring Duchy rush games" only makes sense if the three-pile-rule somehow prevents Duchy rushes, which it doesn't at all.
It does, compared to the one-pile-rule.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's Creative Commons albums for free

blueblimp

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2849
  • Respect: +1559
    • View Profile
Re: Is there a "good" and "bad" way to Win in Dominion?
« Reply #152 on: December 08, 2013, 06:16:14 pm »
0

It's irrelevant what Donald X says. He may have gone directly from "any victory pile empty" to "Provinces empty or any 3 piles empty" (although it's unimaginable that he didn't at least consider "Provinces empty" in his mind first), but this is a logical argument. "The three-pile-rule was made for the purpose of preventing boring Duchy rush games" only makes sense if the three-pile-rule somehow prevents Duchy rushes, which it doesn't at all.
It does, compared to the one-pile-rule.
But you can't just omit the middle step in an argument!

It'd be like saying "I ordered the cheapest entrée because I had some spare money to spend on food". It makes no sense, even if the full story is: "I went to a more expensive restaurant than usual because I had some spare money to spend on food. I didn't want to be too extravagant, so I ordered the cheapest entrée."
Logged

Ozle

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3625
  • Sorry, this text is personal.
  • Respect: +3360
    • View Profile
Re: Is there a "good" and "bad" way to Win in Dominion?
« Reply #153 on: December 08, 2013, 06:17:26 pm »
+1

Mmmmm cheap entrees......
Logged
Try the Ozle Google Map Challenge!
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=7466.0

Sullying players Enjoyment of Innovation since 2013 Apparently!

Grujah

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2237
  • Respect: +1177
    • View Profile
Re: Is there a "good" and "bad" way to Win in Dominion?
« Reply #154 on: December 08, 2013, 06:25:52 pm »
0

I suggested rules modifications because I think they would fix a problem. Why are you getting so confused over that?

I can deal with the problem of three-piling but it's almost impossible to defend against when there is a third player who doesn't know how to defend against it, and he unwittingly aids the player who is going for a quick three pile.

Read the article on scrubs, here:
http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/intermediates-guide.html

THERE IS NO PROBLEM. You are the guy that is screaming "you only use one move". You are just not willing to accept that 3-pilling is a legitimate tactic and actually try to play around it and counter it. Instead you whine.

Edit: And you do not get to say "it's not the same, cause this ends the game immediately".  If you do so, you are just trying to find superfluous reasons to justify your stance. It's the same.

Let's say you play poker with some friends for money. In the FIRST or second game you made some good decisions but you also had extraordinary luck, and you just won 100$ from the other poker players. Immediately after the game you say "Alright guys, I think I'm going to call it a night, see ya later!

That's why pro poker tourneys play a set amount of hands.

Baically WW summed up everyhting, I don't understand how you don't see how your rules are EXTREMELY subjective. For example, rules on what a slog is, or, more importantly, the rule on WHAT IS ACTUALLY FAIR. You find that what is actually fair is .. well, what your subjective judgement of fair is.
When I offered some other "unfair" scenarios, you disregarded them, and said "Well, that's ok, thats different kind of luck". Don't you see the hypocrisy?

Also, less important, the sideffect of your rule would be that players that can do a huge turn will no do so, because they are not allowed to end the game as well. Instead, they buy more components and pass. Because, if they buy anything, their opponent have the chance to buy more and end the game. And than will do the same. Only time it is actually safe to make a play is when you can buy more than half of points.
And that is not importnat at all as the actual rule of "no early 3-piling" is not important as much as the fact that you are extremely .. scrubing.

« Last Edit: December 08, 2013, 06:36:45 pm by Grujah »
Logged

Grujah

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2237
  • Respect: +1177
    • View Profile
Re: Is there a "good" and "bad" way to Win in Dominion?
« Reply #155 on: December 08, 2013, 06:27:31 pm »
0

And please do not try playing competitive Magic, especially not Legacy, where many decks (Belcher and Ooops, no Lands, for example) can end the game on their turn 1. Thats before you had an opportunity to play ANYTHING. And it's actually fine.

Edit: Oh, and do you know about King's Court-Masquerade-Goons lock?  ;D ;D
« Last Edit: December 08, 2013, 06:29:31 pm by Grujah »
Logged

Count Grishnakh

  • Bishop
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 123
  • Respect: +43
    • View Profile
Re: Is there a "good" and "bad" way to Win in Dominion?
« Reply #156 on: December 08, 2013, 06:48:29 pm »
0

And please do not try playing competitive Magic, especially not Legacy, where many decks (Belcher and Ooops, no Lands, for example) can end the game on their turn 1. Thats before you had an opportunity to play ANYTHING. And it's actually fine.

Edit: Oh, and do you know about King's Court-Masquerade-Goons lock?  ;D ;D

ya i know what ur saying with Magic.. I retired from Magic after flipping a table at a tournament, believe it or not
Logged

Ozle

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3625
  • Sorry, this text is personal.
  • Respect: +3360
    • View Profile
Re: Is there a "good" and "bad" way to Win in Dominion?
« Reply #157 on: December 08, 2013, 06:49:41 pm »
+10

By the way, kudos for sticking around Count

Most people on hearing their way of playing was wrong and rubbish would have stormed off in a huff by now, but you are still here, discussing away reasonably.

Even if we disagree completely I doff my cap to you*

*Except im not wearing a hat (and I really should, I have started thinning on top and im a bit self conscious about it, although if i wore a hat for this reason I would probably be very unlikely to doff it because this would draw attention to the very area I am wearing the hat to hide in the first place)

ARGGGH, what a dilemma, I bet this is what Plato meant when he said "ΔἚὊἴἦ ᾮᾫὖᾅ Ἶ ὔἂ ἻἫὉΦο ΕΜΞ ΞύΒ γύπ" which roughly translates as 'A man with something to hide should split no hairs.

Although that could have been Confuscious (the green dressed man from TinTin wasn't he?), I am always getting him and Plato mixed up. Which one was killed by the turtle? and not the TMNT because they would never kill anyone, heroes in a half shell you see, and hero's don't kill, thats what I learnt from the A-Team...except for that one time with General Fulbright, but that was more an omission than an actual killing by the team, im sure it wasn't part of the plan!
Logged
Try the Ozle Google Map Challenge!
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=7466.0

Sullying players Enjoyment of Innovation since 2013 Apparently!

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11815
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (´。• ω •。`)
  • Respect: +12860
    • View Profile
    • Birds of Necama
Re: Is there a "good" and "bad" way to Win in Dominion?
« Reply #158 on: December 08, 2013, 06:51:49 pm »
0

And please do not try playing competitive Magic, especially not Legacy, where many decks (Belcher and Ooops, no Lands, for example) can end the game on their turn 1. Thats before you had an opportunity to play ANYTHING.
Except FoW (and a few others that weren't relevant the last time I followed Legacy scene).
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's Creative Commons albums for free

Count Grishnakh

  • Bishop
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 123
  • Respect: +43
    • View Profile
Re: Is there a "good" and "bad" way to Win in Dominion?
« Reply #159 on: December 08, 2013, 06:56:12 pm »
+4

By the way, kudos for sticking around Count

Most people on hearing their way of playing was wrong and rubbish would have stormed off in a huff by now, but you are still here, discussing away reasonably.

Even if we disagree completely I doff my cap to you*

*Except im not wearing a hat (and I really should, I have started thinning on top and im a bit self conscious about it, although if i wore a hat for this reason I would probably be very unlikely to doff it because this would draw attention to the very area I am wearing the hat to hide in the first place)

ARGGGH, what a dilemma, I bet this is what Plato meant when he said "ΔἚὊἴἦ ᾮᾫὖᾅ Ἶ ὔἂ ἻἫὉΦο ΕΜΞ ΞύΒ γύπ" which roughly translates as 'A man with something to hide should split no hairs.

Although that could have been Confuscious (the green dressed man from TinTin wasn't he?), I am always getting him and Plato mixed up. Which one was killed by the turtle? and not the TMNT because they would never kill anyone, heroes in a half shell you see, and hero's don't kill, thats what I learnt from the A-Team...except for that one time with General Fulbright, but that was more an omission than an actual killing by the team, im sure it wasn't part of the plan!


Thanks I'm an open-minded guy and there is a reason why my thread title is a question and not a statement. I've learned a lot from you all and I think you all make valid points. I think interacting with this community will make me a much more mature and seasoned player

Logged

popsofctown

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5477
  • Respect: +2860
    • View Profile
Re: Is there a "good" and "bad" way to Win in Dominion?
« Reply #160 on: December 08, 2013, 07:15:27 pm »
+4

By the way, kudos for sticking around Count

Most people on hearing their way of playing was wrong and rubbish would have stormed off in a huff by now, but you are still here, discussing away reasonably.

Even if we disagree completely I doff my cap to you*

*Except im not wearing a hat (and I really should, I have started thinning on top and im a bit self conscious about it, although if i wore a hat for this reason I would probably be very unlikely to doff it because this would draw attention to the very area I am wearing the hat to hide in the first place)

ARGGGH, what a dilemma, I bet this is what Plato meant when he said "ΔἚὊἴἦ ᾮᾫὖᾅ Ἶ ὔἂ ἻἫὉΦο ΕΜΞ ΞύΒ γύπ" which roughly translates as 'A man with something to hide should split no hairs.

Although that could have been Confuscious (the green dressed man from TinTin wasn't he?), I am always getting him and Plato mixed up. Which one was killed by the turtle? and not the TMNT because they would never kill anyone, heroes in a half shell you see, and hero's don't kill, thats what I learnt from the A-Team...except for that one time with General Fulbright, but that was more an omission than an actual killing by the team, im sure it wasn't part of the plan!


Thanks I'm an open-minded guy and there is a reason why my thread title is a question and not a statement. I've learned a lot from you all and I think you all make valid points. I think interacting with this community will make me a much more mature and seasoned player
This is not how the internet is supposed to work.  wtf is wrong with f.ds for serious
Logged

Grujah

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2237
  • Respect: +1177
    • View Profile
Re: Is there a "good" and "bad" way to Win in Dominion?
« Reply #161 on: December 08, 2013, 07:16:59 pm »
0

And please do not try playing competitive Magic, especially not Legacy, where many decks (Belcher and Ooops, no Lands, for example) can end the game on their turn 1. Thats before you had an opportunity to play ANYTHING.
Except FoW (and a few others that weren't relevant the last time I followed Legacy scene).

I didn't want to get into details, but yes, Force of Will, Misdirection and Mind Trap are the few spells (from top of my mind) that you can actually manage to play without any lands, and they keep such decks in check. (Only FoW is maindeck material, though, other two are strictly sideboard).


@Count Grishnakh - there is a combo in dominion that once it connects, you're opponent cannot do anything for the rest of the game. Basically, you trim your deck to KC, KC, Goons, Masquerade, you play KC-KC than triple goons (opponent discards to 3) than Masq. He passes you a card, and you have no cards to pass. Than, you destroy the card that he passed you. You repeat this 3 times. He is left with no hand and has to end his turn. You end up with same deck and can repeat this. Is that fair?
Logged

Polk5440

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1708
  • Respect: +1788
    • View Profile
Re: Is there a "good" and "bad" way to Win in Dominion?
« Reply #162 on: December 08, 2013, 07:21:50 pm »
+1

Game 2 in this thread is an example of what Wandering Winder is talking about. The whole strategy for the game (KC-KC-Bridge-Bridge-Bridge) relies on you being really careful about not letting piles get too low and whether to buy an Estate or Duchy "early" to put yourself in the lead. Sure, the goal is to empty all the Provinces in one turn, but how you go about doing that depends very much on avoiding giving your opponent a chance to three-pile.

Luck plays a pretty significant role in Dominion. The solution is to play more games of Dominion! Donald X. designed the game as a high skill AND high luck game -- it's why many of us (esp. me) on the forum like it. When playing games with friends it's nice that people of lower skill levels have a chance to win. And while in some games (KC games, especially) luck plays a larger than normal role, that can be fun for people.
Logged

Count Grishnakh

  • Bishop
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 123
  • Respect: +43
    • View Profile
Re: Is there a "good" and "bad" way to Win in Dominion?
« Reply #163 on: December 08, 2013, 07:28:11 pm »
0

And please do not try playing competitive Magic, especially not Legacy, where many decks (Belcher and Ooops, no Lands, for example) can end the game on their turn 1. Thats before you had an opportunity to play ANYTHING.
Except FoW (and a few others that weren't relevant the last time I followed Legacy scene).

I didn't want to get into details, but yes, Force of Will, Misdirection and Mind Trap are the few spells (from top of my mind) that you can actually manage to play without any lands, and they keep such decks in check. (Only FoW is maindeck material, though, other two are strictly sideboard).


@Count Grishnakh - there is a combo in dominion that once it connects, you're opponent cannot do anything for the rest of the game. Basically, you trim your deck to KC, KC, Goons, Masquerade, you play KC-KC than triple goons (opponent discards to 3) than Masq. He passes you a card, and you have no cards to pass. Than, you destroy the card that he passed you. You repeat this 3 times. He is left with no hand and has to end his turn. You end up with same deck and can repeat this. Is that fair?


Uhh, that's a shockingly awful combo.. But if someone pulls it off, I guess it's game over. At least that would make sense to me if I lost. I would walk away with the impression "Okay, so my opponent held a masquerade, invited me to join, hired a bunch of goons to infiltrate it and they robbed me blind"

that at least makes sense to me, thematically. But a premature three pile ending to me is nonsensical.. I feel like they basically summoned Azathoth to destroy the world by buying the last two vagrants of the last pile.. just doesn't make sense to me, its a tough pill to awallow.
Logged

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11815
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (´。• ω •。`)
  • Respect: +12860
    • View Profile
    • Birds of Necama
Re: Is there a "good" and "bad" way to Win in Dominion?
« Reply #164 on: December 08, 2013, 07:34:17 pm »
+2

And please do not try playing competitive Magic, especially not Legacy, where many decks (Belcher and Ooops, no Lands, for example) can end the game on their turn 1. Thats before you had an opportunity to play ANYTHING.
Except FoW (and a few others that weren't relevant the last time I followed Legacy scene).

I didn't want to get into details, but yes, Force of Will, Misdirection and Mind Trap are the few spells (from top of my mind) that you can actually manage to play without any lands, and they keep such decks in check. (Only FoW is maindeck material, though, other two are strictly sideboard).


@Count Grishnakh - there is a combo in dominion that once it connects, you're opponent cannot do anything for the rest of the game. Basically, you trim your deck to KC, KC, Goons, Masquerade, you play KC-KC than triple goons (opponent discards to 3) than Masq. He passes you a card, and you have no cards to pass. Than, you destroy the card that he passed you. You repeat this 3 times. He is left with no hand and has to end his turn. You end up with same deck and can repeat this. Is that fair?


Uhh, that's a shockingly awful combo.. But if someone pulls it off, I guess it's game over. At least that would make sense to me if I lost. I would walk away with the impression "Okay, so my opponent held a masquerade, invited me to join, hired a bunch of goons to infiltrate it and they robbed me blind"

that at least makes sense to me, thematically. But a premature three pile ending to me is nonsensical.. I feel like they basically summoned Azathoth to destroy the world by buying the last two vagrants of the last pile.. just doesn't make sense to me, its a tough pill to awallow.
Dominion as a whole doesn't make ANY sense thematically.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's Creative Commons albums for free

2.71828.....

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1290
  • Shuffle iT Username: irrationalE
  • Respect: +1322
    • View Profile
Re: Is there a "good" and "bad" way to Win in Dominion?
« Reply #165 on: December 08, 2013, 08:08:26 pm »
+1

@Count Grishnakh - there is a combo in dominion that once it connects, you're opponent cannot do anything for the rest of the game. Basically, you trim your deck to KC, KC, Goons, Masquerade, you play KC-KC than triple goons (opponent discards to 3) than Masq. He passes you a card, and you have no cards to pass. Than, you destroy the card that he passed you. You repeat this 3 times. He is left with no hand and has to end his turn. You end up with same deck and can repeat this. Is that fair?


Uhh, that's a shockingly awful combo.. But if someone pulls it off, I guess it's game over. At least that would make sense to me if I lost. I would walk away with the impression "Okay, so my opponent held a masquerade, invited me to join, hired a bunch of goons to infiltrate it and they robbed me blind"

that at least makes sense to me, thematically. But a premature three pile ending to me is nonsensical.. I feel like they basically summoned Azathoth to destroy the world by buying the last two vagrants of the last pile.. just doesn't make sense to me, its a tough pill to awallow.
I love that combo. I have never successfully executed it though. Most of the game reports that you see with the KC-[discard]-masquerade appear in the "my dear opponent I am so sorry" thread. My favorite of these is when liopoil executed the trap in glorious fashion.


Logged
Man. I had four strips of bacon yesterday. Was one automatically undercooked, one automatically overcooked? No, let's put a stop to that right here, all four strips were excellent.

werothegreat

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8172
  • Shuffle iT Username: werothegreat
  • Let me tell you a secret...
  • Respect: +9630
    • View Profile
Re: Is there a "good" and "bad" way to Win in Dominion?
« Reply #166 on: December 08, 2013, 08:08:43 pm »
0

that at least makes sense to me, thematically. But a premature three pile ending to me is nonsensical.. I feel like they basically summoned Azathoth to destroy the world by buying the last two vagrants of the last pile.. just doesn't make sense to me, its a tough pill to awallow.

Well, them's the rules.
Logged
Contrary to popular belief, I do not run the wiki all on my own.  There are plenty of other people who are actively editing.  Go bother them!

Check out this fantasy epic adventure novel I wrote, the Broken Globe!  http://www.amazon.com/Broken-Globe-Tyr-Chronicles-Book-ebook/dp/B00LR1SZAS/

liopoil

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2587
  • Respect: +2479
    • View Profile
Re: Is there a "good" and "bad" way to Win in Dominion?
« Reply #167 on: December 08, 2013, 08:18:26 pm »
0

My favorite of these is when liopoil executed the trap in glorious fashion
But that wasn't even a true pin... it didn't have a discard attack, it used outpost. And there was a non-zero chance that the pin would break if I got a hand full of KC on my outpost turn or regular turn. (I was drawing+playing my deck with KC-cantrip before playing the masq.
Logged

2.71828.....

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1290
  • Shuffle iT Username: irrationalE
  • Respect: +1322
    • View Profile
Re: Is there a "good" and "bad" way to Win in Dominion?
« Reply #168 on: December 08, 2013, 08:21:37 pm »
0

My favorite of these is when liopoil executed the trap in glorious fashion
But that wasn't even a true pin... it didn't have a discard attack, it used outpost. And there was a non-zero chance that the pin would break if I got a hand full of KC on my outpost turn or regular turn. (I was drawing+playing my deck with KC-cantrip before playing the masq.
you are right. But you still pulled off enough of a pin that your opponent resigned.
Logged
Man. I had four strips of bacon yesterday. Was one automatically undercooked, one automatically overcooked? No, let's put a stop to that right here, all four strips were excellent.

Stealth Tomato

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 507
  • Dorkneel
  • Respect: +480
    • View Profile
Re: Is there a "good" and "bad" way to Win in Dominion?
« Reply #169 on: December 08, 2013, 08:32:36 pm »
0

Let's say you play poker with some friends for money. In the FIRST or second game you made some good decisions but you also had extraordinary luck, and you just won 100$ from the other poker players. Immediately after the game you say "Alright guys, I think I'm going to call it a night, see ya later!

That's why pro poker tourneys play a set amount of hands.

To be clear, most professional poker is played in cash games, where there is most certainly not a set amount of hands. Tournament play is what's televised because it's more dramatic and has a better narrative for an audience, not because it's "better" or "more fair" or "more professional".

That said, in reference to the original example, any poker player who gets butthurt because someone did that is an idiot. Anyone is perfectly free to walk with their winnings... and if they're no good, I'm perfectly fine with taking their money some other time, or with taking someone else's money.
Logged

Powerman

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 766
  • Respect: +605
    • View Profile
Re: Is there a "good" and "bad" way to Win in Dominion?
« Reply #170 on: December 08, 2013, 08:58:10 pm »
0

Dominion rules wise (in terms of game mechanics) is set up about as fair as any game I've seen.  Yes there is P1 advantage in some games, but most of that is due to individual cards that provide a P1 advantage.  I think there is room to say some cards (scout, adventurer) would be more interesting if they were slightly stronger, but those changes are minor and eh, some card has to be the worst card.  I also think some unintended card combos (possession/ambassador and kc/goons/masq come to mind) the game would be better off without, but they're only present in a few games, and well it's not easy to fix them. 

House rules are fine (for example, at my house in ping pong you can't lose by missing a serve) if they make it more fun for you, but in general they do not make it a better game.  Often if is omitting a rule, there is a reason the designer put it in there.  In this situation, it sounds like you are advocating 3 piling to be allowed in some games but not in others.  However, you are unable to give firm lines as to when it would be allowed.  And a rule of "You can three pile if I think its ok" is certainly the worst rule possible that is just designed because you are afraid of losing to better players.  If this is what you are asking for.
Logged
A man on a mission.

Grujah

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2237
  • Respect: +1177
    • View Profile
Re: Is there a "good" and "bad" way to Win in Dominion?
« Reply #171 on: December 08, 2013, 09:14:50 pm »
0

Let's say you play poker with some friends for money. In the FIRST or second game you made some good decisions but you also had extraordinary luck, and you just won 100$ from the other poker players. Immediately after the game you say "Alright guys, I think I'm going to call it a night, see ya later!

That's why pro poker tourneys play a set amount of hands.

To be clear, most professional poker is played in cash games, where there is most certainly not a set amount of hands. Tournament play is what's televised because it's more dramatic and has a better narrative for an audience, not because it's "better" or "more fair" or "more professional".

That said, in reference to the original example, any poker player who gets butthurt because someone did that is an idiot. Anyone is perfectly free to walk with their winnings... and if they're no good, I'm perfectly fine with taking their money some other time, or with taking someone else's money.

My bad.
Logged

Count Grishnakh

  • Bishop
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 123
  • Respect: +43
    • View Profile
Re: Is there a "good" and "bad" way to Win in Dominion?
« Reply #172 on: December 08, 2013, 09:32:13 pm »
0

Dominion rules wise (in terms of game mechanics) is set up about as fair as any game I've seen.  Yes there is P1 advantage in some games, but most of that is due to individual cards that provide a P1 advantage.  I think there is room to say some cards (scout, adventurer) would be more interesting if they were slightly stronger, but those changes are minor and eh, some card has to be the worst card.  I also think some unintended card combos (possession/ambassador and kc/goons/masq come to mind) the game would be better off without, but they're only present in a few games, and well it's not easy to fix them. 

House rules are fine (for example, at my house in ping pong you can't lose by missing a serve) if they make it more fun for you, but in general they do not make it a better game.  Often if is omitting a rule, there is a reason the designer put it in there.  In this situation, it sounds like you are advocating 3 piling to be allowed in some games but not in others.  However, you are unable to give firm lines as to when it would be allowed.  And a rule of "You can three pile if I think its ok" is certainly the worst rule possible that is just designed because you are afraid of losing to better players.  If this is what you are asking for.

Actually I did define when it is acceptable to to 3 pile: When you have a province or its equivalent or more

I pursue 3 pile strategies all the time, I'm just not the opportunistic buy an estate and drain the last pile kinda guy
Logged

Schneau

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1174
  • Shuffle iT Username: Schneau
  • Respect: +1461
    • View Profile
    • Rainwave
Re: Is there a "good" and "bad" way to Win in Dominion?
« Reply #173 on: December 08, 2013, 09:34:06 pm »
+5

And please do not try playing competitive Magic, especially not Legacy, where many decks (Belcher and Ooops, no Lands, for example) can end the game on their turn 1. Thats before you had an opportunity to play ANYTHING.
Except FoW (and a few others that weren't relevant the last time I followed Legacy scene).

I didn't want to get into details, but yes, Force of Will, Misdirection and Mind Trap are the few spells (from top of my mind) that you can actually manage to play without any lands, and they keep such decks in check. (Only FoW is maindeck material, though, other two are strictly sideboard).


@Count Grishnakh - there is a combo in dominion that once it connects, you're opponent cannot do anything for the rest of the game. Basically, you trim your deck to KC, KC, Goons, Masquerade, you play KC-KC than triple goons (opponent discards to 3) than Masq. He passes you a card, and you have no cards to pass. Than, you destroy the card that he passed you. You repeat this 3 times. He is left with no hand and has to end his turn. You end up with same deck and can repeat this. Is that fair?


Uhh, that's a shockingly awful combo.. But if someone pulls it off, I guess it's game over. At least that would make sense to me if I lost. I would walk away with the impression "Okay, so my opponent held a masquerade, invited me to join, hired a bunch of goons to infiltrate it and they robbed me blind"

that at least makes sense to me, thematically. But a premature three pile ending to me is nonsensical.. I feel like they basically summoned Azathoth to destroy the world by buying the last two vagrants of the last pile.. just doesn't make sense to me, its a tough pill to awallow.
Dominion as a whole doesn't make ANY sense thematically.

Seems like a good time to use this:


Logged

werothegreat

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8172
  • Shuffle iT Username: werothegreat
  • Let me tell you a secret...
  • Respect: +9630
    • View Profile
Re: Is there a "good" and "bad" way to Win in Dominion?
« Reply #174 on: December 08, 2013, 09:38:12 pm »
+3

Actually I did define when it is acceptable to to 3 pile: When you have a province or its equivalent or more

I pursue 3 pile strategies all the time, I'm just not the opportunistic buy an estate and drain the last pile kinda guy

I'm sorry, but if you're beaten by someone who buys an Estate and then proceeds to empty out three piles, you deserve to lose.
Logged
Contrary to popular belief, I do not run the wiki all on my own.  There are plenty of other people who are actively editing.  Go bother them!

Check out this fantasy epic adventure novel I wrote, the Broken Globe!  http://www.amazon.com/Broken-Globe-Tyr-Chronicles-Book-ebook/dp/B00LR1SZAS/

Pages: 1 ... 5 6 [7] 8 9 ... 14  All
 

Page created in 0.064 seconds with 21 queries.