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[Eevee]

BLAH!!!!

This is exactly the thing scum types after an IC lynch. Although, considering both the PRs are gone, this could be a reaction from a townie. Ugh, mylo! My top scum read is now Eevee, followed by yuma. Really certain it's eevee, and the partner could be either yuma or voltaire but its gotta be eevee.

Admission?

[mail-mi]

BLAH!!!!

This is exactly the thing scum types after an IC lynch. Although, considering both the PRs are gone, this could be a reaction from a townie. Ugh, mylo! My top scum read is now Eevee, followed by yuma. Really certain it's eevee, and the partner could be either yuma or voltaire but its gotta be eevee.

Admission?

Let me elaborate:

Yuma "BLAH! The BP townie was lynched and IC JK was killed!"
mail-mi: "Ugh I hate mylo!"

[Eevee]

I see both as expressions of frustration out of the unfortunate situation town is in. Seems extremely hypocritical to criticize someone for doing it and then do the same in the very next sentence.

Nah, hypocritical actually isn't the word I'm looking for. Scum trying to fling poo on everyone desperately seems more accurate!

I disagree with it being scummy by the way, I'm fine with voicing displeasure of a gamestate that isn't good for your team (or the team you represent to be a part of). Mail-mi calling yuma out on it feels extremely fake though.. how can you think something is scummy and then do it the very next sentence unless you are scum yourself?

[Eevee]

And I don't buy that you think saying "i dont like that person getting nightkilled" is scummy but "i dont like us being in mylo" is not. What's the difference?

[mail-mi]

And I don't buy that you think saying "i dont like that person getting nightkilled" is scummy but "i dont like us being in mylo" is not. What's the difference?

1 is feigning sadness for town "Awwww DANG IT Jailkeeper died!"
2 is General dislike of mylo.

[Eevee]

And I don't buy that you think saying "i dont like that person getting nightkilled" is scummy but "i dont like us being in mylo" is not. What's the difference?

1 is feigning sadness for town "Awwww DANG IT Jailkeeper died!"
2 is General dislike of mylo.

1 is general dislike of losing our jailkeeper
2 is feigning sadness for town being in mylo

[mail-mi]

And I don't buy that you think saying "i dont like that person getting nightkilled" is scummy but "i dont like us being in mylo" is not. What's the difference?

1 is feigning sadness for town "Awwww DANG IT Jailkeeper died!"
2 is General dislike of mylo.

1 is general dislike of losing our jailkeeper
2 is feigning sadness for town being in mylo

2 is me not liking being in the mylo situation altogether.

[Voltaire]

So I take it you don't read it that way ? Maybe I'm crazy, but I don't think you'd say that kind of stuff if you were town and about to die. It read to me like "well, I almost got you guys", because he thought EFHW was going to hammer him ?

Maybe I'm just seeing things.

I had a different interpretation of it, but I want to hear from voltaire what it was before I say anything... and I would appreciate if everyone else kept their opinions to themselves until that point.

All it was was a conclusion to the "let's try to switch the lynch to Eevee movement," which a couple people raised as a possibility. I think I was the only one who moved my vote, nobody followed, it clearly wasn't happening, so I put my vote back on Walrus since it was needed to avoid a non-me lynch. Hence, a sarcastic "that was fun" about how Operation QuickLynch Eevee died before it began.

As for the bigger picture - first off, EFHW, you were not played by me. I'm certain that's what you're thinking right now, and trust me, you made the right call. We all collectively made the wrong call about Walrus.

I know for a fact that means we're facing an expert scum team, because every lynch and near-lynch has been on town. Walrus on D1, Robz D1, myself D1, faust D1, EFHW D2, and Walrus (again) D2. I personally am putting everyone back on the table. I don't have time to dig into this game this weekend, so I hope everyone understands if I don't hit this with a vengeance until Monday. We have the time to do this right.

[Eevee]

i really see that being any different from what yuma did as splitting hairs. certainly the difference can't be big enough where you think one is notably scummy and other is just a normal thing you do.

not trying to convince you here though. now off to sleeps for real!

[yuma]

And I don't buy that you think saying "i dont like that person getting nightkilled" is scummy but "i dont like us being in mylo" is not. What's the difference?

1 is feigning sadness for town "Awwww DANG IT Jailkeeper died!"
2 is General dislike of mylo.

I don't care about EFHW dying. We all knew she was going to die. I am FURIOUS that Walrus was lynched.

I am really thinking I want to vote for mail-mi. Being on both mislynches, playing a super scummy game all around, allowing all of us to just pass it off as his meta and then coming out of the gates casting suspicion at me for expressing frustration (justified frustration given the completely obvious result) is telling to me.

But I can't shake the feel of voltaire, but I think mail-mi is looking to be a very, very good candidate.

[yuma]

All it was was a conclusion to the "let's try to switch the lynch to Eevee movement," which a couple people raised as a possibility. I think I was the only one who moved my vote, nobody followed, it clearly wasn't happening, so I put my vote back on Walrus since it was needed to avoid a non-me lynch. Hence, a sarcastic "that was fun" about how Operation QuickLynch Eevee died before it began.

That's how I saw this. I find it kinda strange that Teproc could see it any other way and to be honest wonder about him bringing it up.

[Teproc]

Yeah, I don't know what you guys are saying about EFHW dying. We knew 100% she was dying, since there is a roleblocker.

[Teproc]

Well, the first thing is, it wasn't Eevee that voltaire had his vote on, it was yuma. The Eevee lynch was also a possibility, but that didn't make sense to me. It seemed like he was scrambling to make any lynch happen, which I don't think is what you would do as town. Of course you want to survive, but you still want actual scum to be lynched, especially if you're VT (which Voltaire is, if he is town), since there's a risk of hitting the last PR.

I guess I don't have a better reasoning for it, that's just what I thought when I read it. It might be because, by the end of day 2, when Voltaire started fighting for his line a half-hour before the deadline, it kinda rubbed me the wrong way. It's perfectly legitimate to fight for your life as town of course, but it worried me a bit.

Do you guys really think no wagon ever hit scum this game ? Voltaire and I are the only ones who have been wagonned and are still alive (well, I wasn't but chairs was on day 1).

[mail-mi]

And I don't buy that you think saying "i dont like that person getting nightkilled" is scummy but "i dont like us being in mylo" is not. What's the difference?

1 is feigning sadness for town "Awwww DANG IT Jailkeeper died!"
2 is General dislike of mylo.

I don't care about EFHW dying. We all knew she was going to die. I am FURIOUS that Walrus was lynched.

I read it that you were furious at both.

And yes ugh the walrus lynch. I was so sure...

[Teproc]

Eevee, mail-mi, what do you think about the "Well, that was fun" post ?

[yuma]

As for the bigger picture - first off, EFHW, you were not played by me. I'm certain that's what you're thinking right now, and trust me, you made the right call. We all collectively made the wrong call about Walrus.

I know for a fact that means we're facing an expert scum team, because every lynch and near-lynch has been on town. Walrus on D1, Robz D1, myself D1, faust D1, EFHW D2, and Walrus (again) D2. I personally am putting everyone back on the table. I don't have time to dig into this game this weekend, so I hope everyone understands if I don't hit this with a vengeance until Monday. We have the time to do this right.

This post indicates that he is moving toward lynching me. I am sure of it.

Except that there is one key point that I already brought up.

For voltaire to be town that means that every single wagon brought up on day1 was on town. Every single one. That would require epic fail proportions for town....

But perhaps even more important is this. The new normal for mafia is to have a little bit of suspicion cast on themselves day1. That is something that has been established by f.ds--especially Robz--in the last few games. If you don't get suspicion cast on you early it probably means you are scum--or an IC--so scum tries to cast a little bit of suspicion on themselves. Because if they do just enough and survive the lynch... they are much more likely to survive through the game.

I really think voltaire is scum. He has escaped narrowly the lynch two days in a row. Both times the alternative lynch resulted in a mislynch.

I can't believe town would be so bad or that mafia would allow themselves to go completely unscathed through day1... I just can't.

I am ready to vote for voltaire. I don't think anything is going to sway me in this. I think mail-mi is his most likely partner.

[yuma]

And I don't buy that you think saying "i dont like that person getting nightkilled" is scummy but "i dont like us being in mylo" is not. What's the difference?

1 is feigning sadness for town "Awwww DANG IT Jailkeeper died!"
2 is General dislike of mylo.

I don't care about EFHW dying. We all knew she was going to die. I am FURIOUS that Walrus was lynched.

I read it that you were furious at both.

And yes ugh the walrus lynch. I was so sure...

so sure that it would end up as a mislynch? Yeah...

Why would I be furious that scum killed EFHW? Was that ever up for debate? Or did you and your partner talk about it in your scum QT about killing someone else?

[yuma]

Do you guys really think no wagon ever hit scum this game ? Voltaire and I are the only ones who have been wagonned and are still alive (well, I wasn't but chairs was on day 1).

No. I refuse to believe that. I refuse scum would allow that to happen. I believe voltaire is scum.

[Teproc]

Again, I feel the need to point out that I/chairs have also actually been at L-1 on day 1. So if you think town is slightly competent, Voltaire is not the only option.

I think town being that incompetent is very possible though. I know those are very old games for you, but in MII I don't think Robz was put at L-1 in the first two days or so (and Galzria was never really suspected) and pingpongsam and Young_Nick were also never big lynch candidates in MVII IIRC.

[Teproc]

Yeah, I just checked and in MVII, pps had 1 vote on him in the entirety of the game, and Young_Nick had 2, including an self-vote in RVS. And it doesn't seem like Robz was ever at L-1 in MII.

Maybe you think town is more competent now, but if we have a yuma-Eevee scum team (just an example), mafia is also very experienced. So I don't think we can make the assumption that scum has been under pressure at any point.

[yuma]

Again, I feel the need to point out that I/chairs have also actually been at L-1 on day 1. So if you think town is slightly competent, Voltaire is not the only option.

I think town being that incompetent is very possible though. I know those are very old games for you, but in MII I don't think Robz was put at L-1 in the first two days or so (and Galzria was never really suspected) and pingpongsam and Young_Nick were also never big lynch candidates in MVII IIRC.

I still think you are town, as there are many points which point to you being town, which furthers the situation even more... which means that town had 1. faust 2. EFHW 3. Robz 4. chairs town wagons day1. 5. Voltaire if town... 5 town wagons day1 in a 9 player game is just unfathomable at the point where we are in f.ds.

You point out old games where it has happened... 1. I am thinking we had more large wagons than they did back then. You have reread them more recently, but in general most days you get 2-3 wagons that get to L-1 or L-2 in a given day. Day1 here we had a bunch! 2. f.ds has progressed a lot and the way that town wins games is adapting to the meta strategies that scum are using. It is the only way town wins games. Currently the meta has shifted so that scum needs to be suspected somewhat day1 otherwise you end up like shraeye/voltaire did in WWDWM mafia dead on days 3/4.

[Teproc]

I see your argument is that scum would want to be under pressure. Got it, that makes more sense.

[yuma]

but if we have a yuma-Eevee scum team (just an example), mafia is also very experienced.

and would be experienced enough to know that to win you have to be under some amount of heat to get through a game.

PPE: yes, some pressure, but not enough to get properly lynched.

[Voltaire]

As for the bigger picture - first off, EFHW, you were not played by me. I'm certain that's what you're thinking right now, and trust me, you made the right call. We all collectively made the wrong call about Walrus.

I know for a fact that means we're facing an expert scum team, because every lynch and near-lynch has been on town. Walrus on D1, Robz D1, myself D1, faust D1, EFHW D2, and Walrus (again) D2. I personally am putting everyone back on the table. I don't have time to dig into this game this weekend, so I hope everyone understands if I don't hit this with a vengeance until Monday. We have the time to do this right.

This post indicates that he is moving toward lynching me. I am sure of it.

Except that there is one key point that I already brought up.

For voltaire to be town that means that every single wagon brought up on day1 was on town. Every single one. That would require epic fail proportions for town....

But perhaps even more important is this. The new normal for mafia is to have a little bit of suspicion cast on themselves day1. That is something that has been established by f.ds--especially Robz--in the last few games. If you don't get suspicion cast on you early it probably means you are scum--or an IC--so scum tries to cast a little bit of suspicion on themselves. Because if they do just enough and survive the lynch... they are much more likely to survive through the game.

I really think voltaire is scum. He has escaped narrowly the lynch two days in a row. Both times the alternative lynch resulted in a mislynch.

I can't believe town would be so bad or that mafia would allow themselves to go completely unscathed through day1... I just can't.

I am ready to vote for voltaire. I don't think anything is going to sway me in this. I think mail-mi is his most likely partner.

Actually yuma I am leaning more town(ier) towards you based on how yesterday went down, but I know I have to avoid you lynching me first!

So if you are so set on me being scum, can I make Robz spin in his grave and ask you to help me lynch my partner? Since there are two scum out there who are not me, and yes, I know this means that town has been epic fail, but I have the "benefit" of knowing that we have. It sucks, but by being set on me you're being set on losing the game.

[yuma]

Actually yuma I am leaning more town(ier) towards you based on how yesterday went down, but I know I have to avoid you lynching me first!

So if you are so set on me being scum, can I make Robz spin in his grave and ask you to help me lynch my partner? Since there are two scum out there who are not me, and yes, I know this means that town has been epic fail, but I have the "benefit" of knowing that we have. It sucks, but by being set on me you're being set on losing the game.

and who do you think that would be?

I am willing to wait for you to due your diligence before casting a vote on you at the least.

Although if you aren't scum then either we have been completely fooled by Teproc or the scum team is mail-mi/eevee (possible I guess) so I guess it shouldn't be too hard to guess who you will set your sights on.