Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Eevee]

Finding possible partners for mail-mi should be interesting, as he has been so so so wagon-happy. Might even be one of the most informational lynches?

I don't see that at all. For me, it barely confirms anything since I currently think mail-mi is town. My two most "informational" lynches would be you or Walrus - but I'm not lynching just for information.

Ye, we obviously don't want to lynch for information today. I was just thinking out loud.

[mail-mi]

Can someone on the Voltaire wagon please unvote for the time being?

We have only a day, and no ones gonna derphammer. BTW, if you hammer without intent you are claiming scum.

Still on phone, but lynch list:

Walrus
Eevee
Voltaire.

I don't think we're going to lynch outside of these 3 and frankly I'm okay with that.

[EFHW]

Theoretical mail-mi teams, btw:

Eevee: possible but unlikely. Eevee defends mail-mi in a roundabout way at times, but also would be trying to get me lynched for not suspecting his partner...that would be convoluted but possible, I suppose.

yuma: Totally possible. Don't think there's been any interaction.

Walrus: Unlikely, mail-mi was all over Walrus, right? On the L-1 wagon? *checks* Yes, he was.

So that's two unlikely and one plausible. I'm still fine not voting for mail-mi today.

Finding possible partners for mail-mi should be interesting, as he has been so so so wagon-happy. Might even be one of the most informational lynches?

what information would you get out of his flip?

[Voltaire]

Why not yuma, mail-mi?

[Eevee]

Voltaire, you are dodging my question.

The case on me, as you put it, is PoE and lurking. Why doesn't that apply to mail-mi?

It does! But you and mail-mi do not have the same metas. Surely you can see this.

All I can see is you dodging the question for.. what, the fifth time? I can't for the life of me understand why you are withholding this information. Let me offer a hypothesis: it's because you are scum and inventing reads, and actually have no reasons. Am I correct?

No, not at all! In fact, I can't even understand how I didn't answer your question. I have explained my read on mail-mi many times. Can you try re-phrasing it, on the chance we're both town and talking past each other?

When I say "fact" in this post, I mean "fact as I see it". If any of my premises are wrong, do correct me.

Fact 1: First you cross off mail-mi and teproc off of today's lynch pool, because they are too towny.
Fact 2: With the remaining players, you went and are still going to great lengths with rereads, covering multiple angles, thinking of possible scumteams, all the work to determine who to lynch today.


Now, I agree with excluding teproc. I have a strong town read on him as well - partially due to chairs stuff, and partially due to his own play. It all adds up to a town narrative - to me he is clearly the least likely to flip scum from my pool of five unknowns.

The question is: Why are you excluding mail-mi? Yep, you've said "meta reasons", multiple times now. What are those meta reasons? -that's the question I feel you are dodging.

I hate, hate hate hate calling scum teams, but here goes with Voltaire - mail-mi. It's beyond me really, Voltaire is by no means an IC, he decides mailmi is off the table, dodges my inquiries for his reasons for that - AND NO ONE SEEMS TO THINK MAIL-MI IS A VIABLE LYNCH NOW??? Whaaaaat?

I know this is not coming out coherent (my brain is quite fried from the session still, but I was pretty eager to get back to this), but to anyone suspecting mail-mi but not voting for him because he isn't viable.. why isn't he viable?

*If you (Voltaire) already answered the question and I just missed a post, I'd like to prematurely announce I feel like a jerk.

[Eevee]

Theoretical mail-mi teams, btw:

Eevee: possible but unlikely. Eevee defends mail-mi in a roundabout way at times, but also would be trying to get me lynched for not suspecting his partner...that would be convoluted but possible, I suppose.

yuma: Totally possible. Don't think there's been any interaction.

Walrus: Unlikely, mail-mi was all over Walrus, right? On the L-1 wagon? *checks* Yes, he was.

So that's two unlikely and one plausible. I'm still fine not voting for mail-mi today.

Finding possible partners for mail-mi should be interesting, as he has been so so so wagon-happy. Might even be one of the most informational lynches?

what information would you get out of his flip?

Well, if he is town, not much if at all. But if he flipped scum, I'd go back to see what lynches he WASN'T willing to participate in. Should be a pretty good place to hunt for a partner, no?

Say what you will about his activity in voting, but at least it creates interactions. I think information should be a tiny tiny piece of the puzzle of who is the best lynch today, though.

[Teproc]

FWIW, I would be up for lynching mail-mi. I don't feel like my concerns regarding his voting record have been adressed at all, besides meta-stuff that I didn't find convincing after skimming through a few mail-mi games.

It seems like you're the only one with me on though, which is why I'm pushing a Walrus lynch despite the case against him being weaker in my mind.

[Eevee]

Can someone on the Voltaire wagon please unvote for the time being?

We have only a day, and no ones gonna derphammer. BTW, if you hammer without intent you are claiming scum.

Still on phone, but lynch list:

Walrus
Eevee
Voltaire.

I don't think we're going to lynch outside of these 3 and frankly I'm okay with that.

Can we expect some reasons for the list when you get on your computer? Maybe even reasons for why some people aren't included to top it off?

For all the times we asked for your reads, this answer of "these three players are scummier than the other two" is a bit of a lackluster. There are five people we are considering here, I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for thoughts on everyone.

When you get home obviously, we still have full 24 hours.

[mail-mi]

Why not yuma, mail-mi?

Slide him in under you. Don't really want to, but will if we approach deadline.

[Eevee]

FWIW, I would be up for lynching mail-mi. I don't feel like my concerns regarding his voting record have been adressed at all, besides meta-stuff that I didn't find convincing after skimming through a few mail-mi games.

It seems like you're the only one with me on though, which is why I'm pushing a Walrus lynch despite the case against him being weaker in my mind.

I think our concerns regarding his voting history has been brushed off by Voltaire with an ambiguous "he is town for meta reasons", which baffles me.

Anyone who opposes the mailmi lynch: Why?

[mail-mi]

Can someone on the Voltaire wagon please unvote for the time being?

We have only a day, and no ones gonna derphammer. BTW, if you hammer without intent you are claiming scum.

Still on phone, but lynch list:

Walrus
Eevee
Voltaire.

I don't think we're going to lynch outside of these 3 and frankly I'm okay with that.

Can we expect some reasons for the list when you get on your computer? Maybe even reasons for why some people aren't included to top it off?

For all the times we asked for your reads, this answer of "these three players are scummier than the other two" is a bit of a lackluster. There are five people we are considering here, I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for thoughts on everyone.

When you get home obviously, we still have full 24 hours.

Hopefully. Depends on homework. Most likely, tho.

[mail-mi]

FWIW, I would be up for lynching mail-mi. I don't feel like my concerns regarding his voting record have been adressed at all, besides meta-stuff that I didn't find convincing after skimming through a few mail-mi games.

It seems like you're the only one with me on though, which is why I'm pushing a Walrus lynch despite the case against him being weaker in my mind.

I think our concerns regarding his voting history has been brushed off by Voltaire with an ambiguous "he is town for meta reasons", which baffles me.

Anyone who opposes the mailmi lynch: Why?

Because he's obvtown

[Voltaire]

The question is: Why are you excluding mail-mi? Yep, you've said "meta reasons", multiple times now. What are those meta reasons? -that's the question I feel you are dodging.

OK, I feel I did already answer this, but apparently not clearly, so there's nothing wrong with you asking for another explanation.

scum!mail-mi tends to be obvious. See HP mafia, where he wanted to claim at like L-5 or something which made no sense. He also was playing the game, basically, early on D1, which mail-mi doesn't really do. In KCGM, he made some strange theory statements and cast some votes with bad(ish) reasons. This one wasn't quite as egregious, but still fairly decent. He also committed the "there are good reasons to vote me but the current ones aren't good" actual scum!trait. Those are the two times I have seen scum!mail-mi.

I haven't seen any of that here. What I have seen is a wagon-happy, sheepy, lurky mail-mi that is the same as all of his town games.

I also know that because of this, mail-mi is the most juicy target for mislynches as scum. I should know, I tried to get him mislynched as scum in WWTWDP.

So that is his meta as I understand it, and that is why I am not considering lynching him today.

[Eevee]

I don't think I'll be voting for yuma today. PoE'ing him to town now, for change! (That's what you get for being unreadable.)

[Eevee]

First of all - thanks for keeping your tone so polite despite me getting a bit worked up. This was indeed the answer I was looking for.

As for the actual explanation.. meh. I mean.. I disagree with it, but I'm trying to make a judgement call on whether it's us having a different take on mailmi's meta or you being dishonest mafia.

My attempt to paraphrase your explanation "if mail-mi was mafia, he would probably have made some egregious error to show it, he hasn't here". Well.. I think he sort of has - with his voting! To me, mail-mi's meta isn't "always voting for everyone". It's more like "often doesn't offer explanations for his votes, sheeps people relentlessly". Do you see how the two are different? I'd expect mail-mi to participate in a normal amount of wagons / lynches, sometimes with borrowed or nonexistent reasons. What catches my attention here isn't the lack of reasons, it's the sheer volume of votes and the willingness to lynch almost anyone, as long as it isn't him.

[Voltaire]

My attempt to paraphrase your explanation "if mail-mi was mafia, he would probably have made some egregious error to show it, he hasn't here". Well.. I think he sort of has - with his voting! To me, mail-mi's meta isn't "always voting for everyone". It's more like "often doesn't offer explanations for his votes, sheeps people relentlessly". Do you see how the two are different? I'd expect mail-mi to participate in a normal amount of wagons / lynches, sometimes with borrowed or nonexistent reasons. What catches my attention here isn't the lack of reasons, it's the sheer volume of votes and the willingness to lynch almost anyone, as long as it isn't him.

Yes, I see the difference. mail-mi's voting history is troublesome, I completely agree. I'm not saying he's obvtown or anything, just not in my lynch pool for today. If someone could come up with a more damning expose on his voting history, maybe I'd reconsider.

[Teproc]

I mean, I thought my exposé () was pretty damning. I don't really know how much more you need.

It should be noted that his voting history is a lot better day 2. He voted Eevee for an imaginary scumslip, then unvoted upon reading said scumslip again. He then voted Eevee again, sheeping EFHW, and finally was the first vote on the Walrus wagon for lurking.

[Voltaire]

How is that a "better" voting history, Teproc?

[Eevee]

I mean, I thought my exposé () was pretty damning. I don't really know how much more you need.

It should be noted that his voting history is a lot better day 2. He voted Eevee for an imaginary scumslip, then unvoted upon reading said scumslip again. He then voted Eevee again, sheeping EFHW, and finally was the first vote on the Walrus wagon for lurking.

I wonder where he started getting called out on his voting.

Oh wait, I think it was at the start of day 2..

[Voltaire]

Post 525 is Teproc's case. I'm going back to re-read it now (then I'll likely be gone from the thread until tomorrow morning fyi)

[Voltaire]

OK, it's...not that bad. Bad, but not crazy bad. The faust vote seems completely unexplained but that's it.

[Voltaire]

Eevee, how do you see this as different from town!mail-mi? Teproc not understanding I get, but not you. Same way I don't understand your not getting EFHW's point about how you should have known Robz would gambit as scum (hence maybe you were going for towncred).

[Teproc]

His voting history day 2 is better in the sense that he hasn't been on the wagons before the Walrus one.

And yes Eevee, I do think that is the reason, but it's still worth noting.

[yuma]

I know this is not coming out coherent (my brain is quite fried from the session still, but I was pretty eager to get back to this), but to anyone suspecting mail-mi but not voting for him because he isn't viable.. why isn't he viable?

For me it is a worry. He could be scum. Flashbacks to Pirates II haunt me. But at the same time, f.ds has countless examples of mail-mi being mislynched. It happens all the time.... Remember us in Mean Girls. We went into the end day knowing that we could push a mislynch on mail-mi...

I kinda suspect him. He has done some stuff that makes me go "huh?" But that isn't a reason to lynch mail-mi. It just isn't. Because odds are that he is going to flip town and I don't think we get much of anything out of that unfortunately... especially when we have better options in Voltaire and I think you. I don't think I would lynch walrus over mail-mi. Or Teproc over mail-mi. So he is square in the middle for me. frustrating, but that is the way it goes when you mislynch someone over and over and over again.

[Eevee]

Eevee, how do you see this as different from town!mail-mi? Teproc not understanding I get, but not you. Same way I don't understand your not getting EFHW's point about how you should have known Robz would gambit as scum (hence maybe you were going for towncred).

Well, this may sound ike I'm sure he is scum - I'm not. I'm just very much disagreeing with him being off the table and find the lack of suspicion on him very alarming. How do you see this as different from town!Eevee? Your case on me was lurking and PoE, how does that not apply to mail-mi? That's one of the alarm bells you've set up in my head - your reads don't feel genuine. TownVoltaire is someone who makes me reconsider my own reads with my insight (we agree almost always when we are both town!). Here your reads give me a completely opposite vibe - they feel arbitrary instead of insightful.

I get that I've been wrong about him a lot before and certain scummy traits aren't real scumtells on him, but we also can't fall back on "it's mail-mi, so it's not scummy unless he claims scum". He knows that town shouldn't cast their vote willy-nilly. Being ok with any lynch anyone proposes never advances townie's wincon, but as we discussed day 1, it's of utmost importance for scum to get a townie lynched - so I can see mailmi just getting caught up in trying to make that happen and revealing himself.