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[Eevee]

core=vote, I'm no Galzria at phone posting.

[Voltaire]

Very much like yuma's case, willing to vote EFHW. What's the current vote count? Only yuma and Eevee on EFHW right now?

[yuma]

Ladies and Gentlemen, Boys and Girls... I give you EFHW day2:

First important post is a vote based off theory? What are we in RVS? And turns out it was the right call... funny vote coming right at the start of day2. Interesting to note that this was a L-1 vote...

Lots of theory talk that I have no read on cause I don't think you can get a true read from theory talk.

And then the vote on eevee that caught my attention.

And then her on the defensive after I made my case...

So really not nearly as much substance as I think EFHW gave herself credit for and not a lot that I get reads from. A little bit to add to the case in regard to how she voted for eevee and her explanations for them and in her defending herself. But my case is mostly predicated on her not having town reads day1. That is a very big deal to me.

[Voltaire]

vote: EFHW

That is L-1. Nobody hammer. Doing so is an admission you are scum.

If you want to hammer, state "intent to hammer". Then allow EFHW time to claim. She likely can't fakeclaim or she'll be caught (she'll have to decide if that might be worth it for her team if she's scum). If she's a town PR obviously we don't want to lynch her. After we've decided if her claim is plausible, you can hammer if still needed.

(this is mostly for Teproc but I like stating the obvious just as a reminder to everyone)

[Teproc]

I was going to put her at L-1 as well. yuma convinced me on the "no town reads" thing, and the case looks at lot stronger because of that. I think my problem with it came from thinking mafia should try to appear towny more than anything, but that resoning doesn't actually help much, and also doesn't work with my scum read.n mail-mi. I'll wait for her to respond of course

[EFHW]

Ok, yuma, I misread you.  When you referred to early Day 1, I thought you were going back to the old case.   I was not aware until just now that you had repudiated that case.  So far as I knew, you were still using it.

I understand how not having townreads looks scummy - I'm the one who brought it up!  I didn't even realize that was the case with me until you said it.  Do you think if I was scum and using that strategy that I would purposely call attention to it?  btw, you had 4 lukewarm townreads in a 13 player game.  This is a 9 player game.  And if I was trying to tunnel you, I would have just left those out.  The point of that quote was that you endorsed a "quick to suspicion" play style, which is what you were criticizing me for doing.

My first vote on Eevee was very early, when people make votes for little or subtle things.  When you defended him AND came out with that business about Theorel AND voted me, it seemed like you were trying to 1. distract away from Eevee and 2. discredit me.  The flimsiness of your argument really reinforced that impression.  When I voted Eevee again, and once again you voted me immediately, that looks like a pattern.  That's just where your best efforts led you, even though it looks scummy?  Well the same thing for my not having townreads.

The vigor of your defense was in 1) it's immediacy, and 2) the vigor of your attack on me - and Day 1 based on supposition only.

You bring up faust as an example, but he was a mislynch, motivated in large part by you.

I guess I'm back to about 50% on you being scum, having been higher earlier today.  You won't be lynched today, so I'm going back to vote: Eevee.

[yuma]

I was going to put her at L-1 as well. yuma convinced me on the "no town reads" thing, and the case looks at lot stronger because of that. I think my problem with it came from thinking mafia should try to appear towny more than anything, but that resoning doesn't actually help much, and also doesn't work with my scum read.n mail-mi. I'll wait for her to respond of course

I am less concerned about what mafia would do.... because as mafia it is easy to get caught up in being mafia...

I am more concerned that I have a really hard time seeing a town player not have town reads... not make an attempt to separate out reads into two piles and trying get a grasp on the game. If you don't have town reads, you just have a bunch of scummy reads all in the same pile. That doens't seem like something town would do if they were scum hunting. It seems more like something scum would do when trying to get mislynches

[EFHW]

Did everyone else in the game besides me express having townreads?  It doesn't seem like that to me.

[Voltaire]

Yuma, what do you make of EFHW's point that she's the one who brought up town reads? That's the one thing giving me pause here.

[Voltaire]

Did everyone else in the game besides me express having townreads?  It doesn't seem like that to me.

No. No, I don't think so. Games are blurring together for me. This is the bad D1 good D2 one, right?

[Twistedarcher]

Vote Count 2.7:

Voltaire (1): Walrus
Mail-mi (1): Teproc
Eevee (2): mail-mi, EFHW
EFHW (3): Yuma, Eevee, Voltaire


With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

Day 2 ends November 13 at 8:00 p.m.

[yuma]

Yuma, what do you make of EFHW's point that she's the one who brought up town reads? That's the one thing giving me pause here.

It is something to think about. But I think it was interesting that she brought it up only the context of me... with ultimately her ending up with a completely scummyish null read on me.

I mean the argument is definitely there that if she brought it up she might become introspective and think... "hmmmm... I haven't had any town reads... maybe I should have one or two...." But I don't know if that has to happen...

[mail-mi]

Hm. Hm indeed. i was thinking yuma v Efhw was tvt (town v town for Teproc) but now I'll have to go reread EFHW.

[Teproc]

Did everyone else in the game besides me express having townreads?  It doesn't seem like that to me.

Off the top of my head, Eevee and Voltaire had a town read on me, Walrus mentioned a town v town fight. I don't think yumz expressed town reads day 2, but he did day 2 on Robz at least right ?

In any case... announcing intent to hammer.

[EFHW]

Ok, well I'm sorry I didn't find a way to avoid this.  I am a town PR.

[yuma]

Did everyone else in the game besides me express having townreads?  It doesn't seem like that to me.

there is only one way to find out... I am going to go back and look.

[Teproc]

You're gonna have to be more specific than that, sorry.
It's just way to east to fakecllaim generic Pr

[Teproc]

Turns out I'm pretty bad at phoneposting as well...

[Voltaire]

Yeah, if you're telling the truth EFHW we need you to actually claim your role. Not your result (if it doesn't make sense under the claiming discussion terms).

You understand we need to decide if you're lying scum.

[EFHW]

Yes I understand.  I didn't specify b/c there seemed to be concern earlier about scum knowing the setup.  So that concern is to the side now?

[Voltaire]

Yes I understand.  I didn't specify b/c there seemed to be concern earlier about scum knowing the setup.  So that concern is to the side now?

Basically, I would want Teproc to hammer through a "generic PR claim" because there is no way to sort that out from mafia. If you claim, and are not counter-claimed, and we've outed the whole setup, will phooey for us but we were in the worst possible setup and did the worst possible thing, so sad face.

[Teproc]

That concern made sense for a "spontaneous" claim. It's not ideal, but an L-1 claim is quite different.

[EFHW]

ok, I'm the jailkeeper.  I jailkept yuma N1, thinking he was either scum or valuable town.

[yuma]

Did everyone else in the game besides me express having townreads?  It doesn't seem like that to me.

Sorry no quotes cause that would get ugly. If you want to see evidence, let me know and I'll go pull it up.

Also please note that this isn't comprehensive. I just really skimmed through player's posts really quickly and when i saw town reads I put them in, so I am sure there were reads that I missed. The only player I went through in depth on every post was chairs, because I couldn't find anything. But the point is that chairs is the only player that didn't have a town read beside EFHW.

Eevee - townread on Robz

yuma - townread on Robz and eevee

mail-mi townreads on voltaire, eevee

walrus has townreads on voltaire, efhw and yuma

robz has townreads on people voting for him....

faust has townread on chairs and voltaire

voltaire expressed town reads on yuma, eevee, mail-mi

chairs also had no town reads. I will say this is scummy, because I think it is. But he also just did less posting and voted based more off reactions than scum hunting

EFHW has none

[Voltaire]

Not counter-claiming EFHW. unvote for safety.