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[Twistedarcher]

unvote.  Mod, if a sub is available please sub me out.

Request noted. We are looking. Until a substitute is found, everyone should proceed normally -- the deadline will not be extended.

[chairs]

unvote.  Mod, if a sub is available please sub me out.

Sorry that you feel you have to go... Like I said, I thought you were doing fine, but hopefully we will see you around soon for future games

I mostly feel that I've hit the point where I'm more of a drag than a gain on the game, and it's not fun with the posting limitation.  Once I no longer have said issue, I will happily join games again.

[EFHW]

This is probably a mislynch. Unvote

Vote: EFHW

I agree. Vote: Robz

[EFHW]

Where the heck is Voltaire?

[EFHW]

Chairs, are you going to get in here and defend yourself? I want to lynch you.

I'll just say this. I think Yuma has been unusually careful in his stances. Keep that in mind if you do lynch me.

Back that up. Right now. Back it up.

This is the kind of thing I was talking about earlier with regard to yuma's reactions to comments on his play.  I think it is excellent strategy, really, and not necessarily scummy.  But it is problematic for the rest of us.  I think these semi-aggressive responses could really discourage people from voting for him, and we need to keep that in mind.

[Voltaire]

Where the heck is Voltaire?

Here! I just caught up on the thread. I was enjoying a mostly mafia-free weekend.

Honestly I can go either way on most wagons. There's so many if/thens running around, most of which are contradictory, that we just need a flip (or flips after the NK, maybe) to sort everything out.

Still happy with a Robz vote. I see he's up to 3 now. Gonna go re-read the weekend now.

[faust]

So after all this, I agree that chairs is more likely town. That's not too good for us, as we lose one town vote short before the deadline. If there's enough time, I want to look at chairs interaction to hopefully find scum, but I'm not sure if I'll manage to do that before the end of the day.

[yuma]

Chairs, are you going to get in here and defend yourself? I want to lynch you.

I'll just say this. I think Yuma has been unusually careful in his stances. Keep that in mind if you do lynch me.

Back that up. Right now. Back it up.

This is the kind of thing I was talking about earlier with regard to yuma's reactions to comments on his play.  I think it is excellent strategy, really, and not necessarily scummy.  But it is problematic for the rest of us.  I think these semi-aggressive responses could really discourage people from voting for him, and we need to keep that in mind.

If someone has a good reason to vote for me, my reactions shouldn't have any weight (fortunately for me in this game, they won't because I am town so can't have any weight at all). But if they are bad reasons or if they are reasons that aren't backed up by facts and examples then you better believe I am going to call them out and demand facts or show that they were actually bunk

[yuma]

Well we have another L-1 wagon to analyze.

Vote Count 1.9:

Chairs (4): Robz888, EFHW, Walrus, Chairs

And hey! look who is on it again! Faust. Why are people not voting for him. I let it slide before when people said they didn't like my case on him, but now I want to ask specifically. "What don't you like about the case on faust?"

If you already responded feel free to quote a statement. But "it just doesn't feel good" will not suffice. I would like specifics.

[chairs]

Well we have another L-1 wagon to analyze.

Vote Count 1.9:

Chairs (4): Robz888, EFHW, Walrus, Chairs

And hey! look who is on it again! Faust. Why are people not voting for him. I let it slide before when people said they didn't like my case on him, but now I want to ask specifically. "What don't you like about the case on faust?"

If you already responded feel free to quote a statement. But "it just doesn't feel good" will not suffice. I would like specifics.

Faust is not on this wagon.

[EFHW]

Chairs, are you going to get in here and defend yourself? I want to lynch you.

I'll just say this. I think Yuma has been unusually careful in his stances. Keep that in mind if you do lynch me.

Back that up. Right now. Back it up.

This is the kind of thing I was talking about earlier with regard to yuma's reactions to comments on his play.  I think it is excellent strategy, really, and not necessarily scummy.  But it is problematic for the rest of us.  I think these semi-aggressive responses could really discourage people from voting for him, and we need to keep that in mind.

If someone has a good reason to vote for me, my reactions shouldn't have any weight (fortunately for me in this game, they won't because I am town so can't have any weight at all). But if they are bad reasons or if they are reasons that aren't backed up by facts and examples then you better believe I am going to call them out and demand facts or show that they were actually bunk

absolutely, you aren't doing anything wrong.  But it's good for the rest of us to keep tabs on our own reactions to your reactions.  I might just be projecting my own stuff, but I see a distinct reluctance to vote for you and I think your style may be part of that.

[yuma]

Well we have another L-1 wagon to analyze.

Vote Count 1.9:

Chairs (4): Robz888, EFHW, Walrus, Chairs

And hey! look who is on it again! Faust. Why are people not voting for him. I let it slide before when people said they didn't like my case on him, but now I want to ask specifically. "What don't you like about the case on faust?"

If you already responded feel free to quote a statement. But "it just doesn't feel good" will not suffice. I would like specifics.

Faust is not on this wagon.

Oh blast.

I saw chairs and read faust... Even though I knew that you had selfvoted. O well. Disregard the previous post...

I think EFHW is the scummiest person on the chairs wagon. But not necessarily the scummiest for being on the chairs wagon, that I would need to look at more in depth, but more just reads overall throughout the game. And I am still not sure chairs is actually town.

[yuma]

I might just be projecting my own stuff, but I see a distinct reluctance to vote for you and I think your style may be part of that.

I think it is because town knows it is probably smart to keep me alive and scum knows that after they don't NK me I have a really good chance of being a mislynch tomorrow as they can argue I wasn't NKed... All of this goes out the window though if I can find scum and be the driving force behind their lynch (hence why I am playing the way I am playing) and force scum to at least strongly consider NKing me.

[Voltaire]

I might just be projecting my own stuff, but I see a distinct reluctance to vote for you and I think your style may be part of that.

I think it is because town knows it is probably smart to keep me alive and scum knows that after they don't NK me I have a really good chance of being a mislynch tomorrow as they can argue I wasn't NKed... All of this goes out the window though if I can find scum and be the driving force behind their lynch (hence why I am playing the way I am playing) and force scum to at least strongly consider NKing me.

Planting the seeds to explain why you'll live? And I'm not forgetting your tunneling of faust.

I think we should lynch Robz. I think anyone who wants to hammer (when he reaches L-1) absolutely should. Robz has stated he will not be claiming. If there are two people out there willing to vote for Robz, there is no reason not to do so.

[yuma]

I might just be projecting my own stuff, but I see a distinct reluctance to vote for you and I think your style may be part of that.

I think it is because town knows it is probably smart to keep me alive and scum knows that after they don't NK me I have a really good chance of being a mislynch tomorrow as they can argue I wasn't NKed... All of this goes out the window though if I can find scum and be the driving force behind their lynch (hence why I am playing the way I am playing) and force scum to at least strongly consider NKing me.

Planting the seeds to explain why you'll live? And I'm not forgetting your tunneling of faust.

yeah... that is what I am doing. Good job. Why don't you go back and answer my question about faust that I asked everyone to answer. I am not tunneling. But I think he is a wayyyy better lynch than robz. To be honest, I don't even have a clue why you are voting for robz.

[Voltaire]

yeah... that is what I am doing. Good job. Why don't you go back and answer my question about faust that I asked everyone to answer. I am not tunneling. But I think he is a wayyyy better lynch than robz. To be honest, I don't even have a clue why you are voting for robz.

1. You are changing the subject.
2. You asked everyone to explain that in a post where you accused faust of something he did not do.
3. Voting is pro-town. There is nothing intrinsically wrong with casting lots of votes.
3a. Should one of the players faust has voted for when they had a big wagon flip town, he will and should get serious scrutiny.
4. Because I think he is scum. I have stated why before. He is actilurking. He is appearing when called out. He is claiming to be making meaningful pro-town contributions when he is not. He is playing just the sort of gambit I can see scumRobz playing.
4a. Yes, of course that could also be townRobz! But I think it's more likely scum, and we have to lynch someone, and I don't like other cases better, and since everyone has a 3/4 chance of being town and yada yada yada yada.

[yuma]

1. who cares. I am not being lynched today.
2. The fact that I made a mistake in reading doesn't negate my request for an explanation
3. I never said voting wasn't pro-town. I have said the inverse before about EFHW and Eevee. But I think that in a game of this size, scum needs to push a mislynch through and needs to be on the wagons otherwise they collapse and eventually a wagon will form on them or a partner and they will get lynched. Do you disagree with this supposition?
4. I think all of this applied like day3 or day4. But what has changed in the last few days? anything or are you relying on a case made so long ago and continuing to look nowhere else. Cause that my friend is tunneling... what you just accused me of doing.
4a. any sentence that ends with yada yada yada should have just been left as yada yada yada because it obviously isn't important (and actually reading it, yeah... it isn't... it is just a way out for you if he does flip town)

[Voltaire]

3. no. faust did come out of the gate roaring which seemed unusual, and you'll note I did call him scummy early on. Overall I have a null read on him. I do disagree that wagons will always form on scum (which you may not have meant to say but seems to be implied in your post)
4. I have considered other options, I do not like them as much.
4a. No, if I had not said that, you would have said "but why can't that be townRobz." I was trying to save us time. And no, I don't need an out if Robz flips town. I'll just have been wrong.

[Robz888]

The Volts have a bias toward always thinking I'm scum. Voltaire's usually gotten it right though, but don't listen to him this time.

I have to see chairs's most recent decisions--to concede defeat, and then try to replace out--as townier, really. It's unfortunate, but it has to be townier.

Yuma, what holds me back on faust is hat this is the polar opposite of how he played M31, to me.

[EFHW]

unvote.  My vote on Robz was OMGUS, looking for his reaction.  But I don't want to accelerate a wagon on him b/c I have no idea if he is scum.  I think we should look at Eevee - who is acting very similar to Voltaire's description of Robz - and maybe Voltaire himself, since he has seemed a lot less present than I am used to him being.

PPE I see Robz is on.  Why did you vote for me?

[yuma]

4. I think all of this applied like day3 or day4. But what has changed in the last few days? anything or are you relying on a case made so long ago and continuing to look nowhere else. Cause that my friend is tunneling... what you just accused me of doing.

Since you didn't really respond to point 4.

4. I have considered other options, I do not like them as much.

I'll do it for you...

post made day1:

I'm down to vote: Robz. Showed up, said an obvious thing, left. Anti-town.

Still day1:

I guess my question to these three people is why does what you say, "1 post" being "anti-town" and "hat hanging" equal scummy?

The alternative is to never vote, ever.

That isn't answering my question...

Yeah, that was phrased poorly. So: I am expecting to find scum in lower posters. I am expecting scum to hang back, ish. I am expecting Robz not to play on D1. I am expecting Robz to sorta play D1 if called out on it. Early on D1, I can see all these things being true at once.

Also, it got Walrus to move to Robz after I voted for him! That's interesting, and likely useful down the road. It's the first time someone has reached three votes, and how else do you get the game moving without wagons? This is not to say I am voting for reactions. They're a happy outcome.

Day3:

OK, I think I can narrow down the lynch pool a bit more right now. Right off the bat I'm going to eliminate myself. Cool? Cool.

WalrusMcFishSr, Chairs, Robz888, Voltaire, Yuma, EFHW, Mail-Mi, Eevee, Faust

Now let's eliminate yuma, even though I maintain a lite scum read.

WalrusMcFishSr, Chairs, Robz888, Yuma, EFHW, Mail-Mi, Eevee, Faust

I'm going to agree with EFHW (hilariously enough, as she is also one of my scum reads) and say that at the moment I do not have enough information to read mail-mi or chairs and likely won't today, so they're gone.

WalrusMcFishSr, Chairs, Robz888, EFHW, Mail-Mi, Eevee, Faust

and the pool ends up as

WalrusMcFishSr, Robz888, EFHW, Eevee, Faust

Let's take a look at that Robz wagon:

Mail-Mi, Voltaire, WalrusMcFishSr, Yuma

and the Walrus wagon:

Chairs, Eevee, Mail-mi, Faust

and EFHW peaked at 3 unique btw:

mail-mi, yuma, Walrus

Scum likely needs 3 mislynches to win.

I have a secret confession to make. I think I actually really really really like the Walrus case.

Though I also like my vote on Robz still, who is voting for chairs, for what I perceive as very weak reasons.

Day5:

I don't have time to write any sort of a lengthy post/re-read given new developments until late tomorrow. But I did pop in and caught up on the thread. Short version is that the case on chairs is decent and the one on faust I do not like for D1.

And I still hold to my vote on Robz. I maintain a scummy read on him.

Vote: voltaire

Voltaire has done nothing all day but push for and vote Robz. All based off stuff he "discovered" day1. I just looked through his posts and he has basically added nothing to the case since his original vote. This is the definition of tunneling and tunneling for a bad reason. I can't believe that town voltaire would think that his case is stronger than any other case out there... I just can't.

Robz, you had a vote on voltaire right? I think this is the way to go. Come join me. Anyone else interested? reread voltaire... all you will see is a bunch of posts about robz and how nothing else is better when the whole case on him was established day1 on somewhat flimsy premises.

[Voltaire]

I'm fine with "closer looking" Eevee. As for me, I was doing not-mafia stuff all weekend. That's why you'll find almost nothing from me. I popped in to make sure we weren't lynching or anything. I'm here now.

PPE: yuma's post.

[EFHW]

Playing devil's advocate, b/c I am also considering voting Voltaire, how would only voting Robz with a weak case be a scum strategy?

[Voltaire]

OK, well then. Anybody else just want to lynch yuma today?

[EFHW]

I'm fine with "closer looking" Eevee. As for me, I was doing not-mafia stuff all weekend. That's why you'll find almost nothing from me. I popped in to make sure we weren't lynching or anything. I'm here now.

PPE: yuma's post.

It wasn't just this weekend.  I'm used to you being much more "out there".