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[Robz888]

vote: Robz888.

I guess if Voltaire is right 70% of the time, you should all lynch me. What are you waiting for?

Okay, good. Two more. Come on.

[yuma]

vote: Robz888.

I guess if Voltaire is right 70% of the time, you should all lynch me. What are you waiting for?

because I am not so sure he is right!

[Voltaire]

Okay, good. Two more. Come on.

If you were serious about this, you'd self-vote.

[chairs]

vote: Robz888.

I guess if Voltaire is right 70% of the time, you should all lynch me. What are you waiting for?

because I am not so sure he is right!

As soon as Robz had shades of ashersky in his statement, I had to vote him.

[yuma]

vote: Robz888.

I guess if Voltaire is right 70% of the time, you should all lynch me. What are you waiting for?

Okay, good. Two more. Come on.

You could always selfvote... you would be much more likely to get my vote that way, and perhaps the only way to get my vote at this point...

But self voting for me means you are admitting to being scum. so only self vote if you want to get lynched and if you are scum. Don't self vote if you are town. If you do, it is on you and you alone.

PPE: voltaire says the same thing

[Eevee]

I don't like this recent trend of extreme appeal to emotion.

It's either
a) town faking it, hoping for scum to somehow reveal themselves in a stressful situation (stressful because it's pretty uncomfortable being around someone who throws a hissy fit)
b) town really being that upset (in which case they often replace out or get lynched, neither is desirable)
or c) scum faking it to get out of an argument or just to gain town cred (ashersky in mean girls, Robz in MC31).

Nah, I just don't like the precedent of getting out of a perfectly valid line of questioning by reacting to it like this. It's not fun, I know ashersky argues "I just want to win at any cost", but emotional blackmail is lame, and stuff like this stops being effective when you've done it as scum as well.

Honestly, I just want to ignore the last couple of posts from Robz altogether. My read on him is "been getting to arguments where he has been in the wrong in my opinion, hasn't really contributed at all".

[Robz888]

Okay, good. Two more. Come on.

If you were serious about this, you'd self-vote.

No, because I know I'm town. Alas, I am only right 40% of the time! So people should probably listen to someone with a 70% record instead and vote for me.

[yuma]

Okay, good. Two more. Come on.

If you were serious about this, you'd self-vote.

No, because I know I'm town. Alas, I am only right 40% of the time! So people should probably listen to someone with a 70% record instead and vote for me.

Robz... that isn't what I am saying at all and you know it!!!

I am saying that your record doesn't absolve you of justifiying your votes in the same way we expect it of everyone else (votlaire included) I just included voltaire as a reference because you were talking to him.

You started this emotional argument by basically saying that you were better at this game than others because you had been around longer and that because of your ancient status you didn't need to explain your vote beyond despite being requested.

All I am saying, is explain your vote on voltaire, or at least back it up beyond what you have already done.

[Eevee]

Sigh.

[Eevee]

I'm this close to starting to policy vote for anyone who does this and continuing until they are lynched. Having fun is more important to me than winning, and I strongly feel that this community would be better off without stuff like this happening in every game these days.

[Robz888]

I'm not being emotional. I'm not upset. I'm sorry if I'm making other people upset, though.

I think we've had something approaching zero interesting and useful character interactions--the game has bee fairly dry and uninteresting so far--so I was trying to stir the pot in a meaningful way. I don't actually think Voltaire is scum, though I do find his humor-as-a-defense grating, it's something he seems to do--or is even more likely to do--as town.

And also I was happy to receive these votes; again, useful interactions.

But okay, I don't want to make people mad, so never mind?

[Eevee]

I pretty much knew you were doing that. Honestly, to me any read gleaned from such actions is a blood diamond. I just personally hate it when these games are taken to that length.

Not mad at you personally, of course.

[Robz888]

I pretty much knew you were doing that. Honestly, to me any read gleaned from such actions is a blood diamond. I just personally hate it when these games are taken to that length.

Not mad at you personally, of course.

I don't think I took it to much of a "length" though. There wasn't really any anger. At least not on my end, and it appears no one else's either.

[yuma]

I pretty much knew you were doing that. Honestly, to me any read gleaned from such actions is a blood diamond.

And I don't even consider a read from that sort of scenario a diamond. I tried it last game, with Galz, and yeah... it was dumb and didn't yield anything... Responses to those sorts of situations I think are incredibly difficult to read because then you have to delve into the psyche of the person and frankly, as much as we play with each other, we don't really know each other that well... We don't know if another player is having a really bad day, is rushed and stressed from work, didn't get a lot of sleep, etc, etc, etc that goes into the their response.

I am not saying trying to elicit a response is bad, but using emotion or feigned emotion is going to bring out emotional responses and those emotional responses are going to be highly impacted--more so than the current state of the game--by the player's status quo in real life--something that we on f.ds know nothing about

But all this is probably better said in another topic so I guess I'll stop talking about it.

So robz... you dont' find voltaire scummy?

Who do you find scummy?

[Eevee]

I pretty much knew you were doing that. Honestly, to me any read gleaned from such actions is a blood diamond. I just personally hate it when these games are taken to that length.

Not mad at you personally, of course.

I don't think I took it to much of a "length" though. There wasn't really any anger. At least not on my end, and it appears no one else's either.

If faking extreme frustration is ok, then scum will have to do it as well. Having to guess is if someone is actually upset or just faking it to get a read is really awkward. Like, my default is to assume it's fake these days, because it always is. It would make me feel like such a jerk if someone was really upset and I reacted to it like this.

I think this is bad for the same reason lying about irl is bad. This really might just be me, though.

[Robz888]

So robz... you dont' find voltaire scummy?

Who do you find scummy?

Look, I don't find anyone scummy. I find chairs a little more scummy than others for reasons I've stated, and EFHW. I've given my reads man. I laid it all out. I don't have much. I'm reading along but there's just like nothing that sticks out at all.

I didn't realize until now how completely dependent I am on ashersky's Day 1 shenanigans, and I will personally thank him next time I encounter him.

[Eevee]

Basically, if someone seems to have a disproportionately strong emotional reaction to something in the game, I want to be able to say "hey.. you seem to be just having a bad day, maybe step away from the computer, do something fun and continue with mafia tomorrow? we are all friends here!" Nowadays it's always just fake and manipulation, and I don't think that's a healthy direction. I don't want "man, is he scum trying to emotionally manipulate me" to be the first thing going through my head when I see someone in distress.

[Robz888]

I have always tried to scumhunt on Day 1 by needling people, I think this tactic works and is useful and I completely, completely, completely, completely, completely disagree with yuma and Eevee that it yields false reads (or is more likely to yield false reads than sitting around having a conversation about virtually nothing). But I don't want to make people made or belligerent--and I didn't think I was doing that, but Eevee seems to disagree--so never mind?

[yuma]

So robz... you dont' find voltaire scummy?

Who do you find scummy?

Look, I don't find anyone scummy. I find chairs a little more scummy than others for reasons I've stated, and EFHW. I've given my reads man. I laid it all out. I don't have much. I'm reading along but there's just like nothing that sticks out at all.

I didn't realize until now how completely dependent I am on ashersky's Day 1 shenanigans, and I will personally thank him next time I encounter him.

That is fair, I kinda feel the same way. I am not asking to be accusatory, I am asking because I didn't know where you stood.

[Robz888]

One more comment on this: I aree with like not having way crazy amounts of anger as a tactic, it's just not fun. I don't think I was doing that, though.

[yuma]

I have always tried to scumhunt on Day 1 by needling people, I think this tactic works and is useful and I completely, completely, completely, completely, completely disagree with yuma and Eevee that it yields false reads (or is more likely to yield false reads than sitting around having a conversation about virtually nothing). But I don't want to make people made or belligerent--and I didn't think I was doing that, but Eevee seems to disagree--so never mind?

I think needling people is fine. I think it becomes frustrating when the person doing the needling takes on an air of offense or extreme frustration. The difference is that as an outside observer I can see 1. the needling and 2. the person being needled's response and if frustration is given out I can see that it might be real...

But if a person fakes an emotion to get other emotions out of people then it becomes extremely complicated to try and delve anything out of... because all of it was predicated off fake emotions that I dont' know if they are authentic or real to begin with. (I am guilty of doing this as well... so it isn't a critique of you specifically).

[Robz888]

I think though that ashersky constantly needles people in a way that makes it easier to determine whether A) he is town/scum, and B) the person he is needling is town/scum and C) the spectators are town/scum.

[WalrusMcFishSr]

Hey everyone, sorry I haven't posted for a while, I was Halloween-ing last night and then catching up on work this morning that I should have done last night.

Oh I get it, when I vote faust then unvote than revote it's scummy, when yuma does it he's a genius

Oh wait, I'm yuma's primary townread? yuma's a genius! The paragon of reason, I would say!

Robz' vote is...interesting. Not what I expected at least. My gut reaction is scummy, but I guess chairs is in my lynchpool as well (he hasn't done much except occasionally show up to criticize me), so I don't know. Just seemed like an odd choice.

And I don't like what Robz is doing right now. I see that the situation has diffused somewhat, but this whole episode doesn't sit right with me. Robz seems so keen to convince people of his devil-may-care attitude about being lynched. First it was "I don't need to do anything; this wagon will dissipate on its own." Now it's this:



Is this the first-order scum tactic of taking the easy road? No. Is it something I could see scum!Robz trying to pull? Quite possibly. I'm back to vote: Robz. I believe that's L-1.

Although I can't shake the feeling that there's lurky scum still trying to hang on my wagon as well. Apparently you guys are all desensitized to mail-mi, but I haven't been convinced. Robz' vote on chairs could be busing or misdirection.

[Eevee]

Haha Walrus, you are awesome! Laughed out loud at that gif.

[nkirbit]

Vote Count 1.6:

Robz888(4) Voltaire, Faust, Chairs, Walrus {L-1}
WalrusMcFishSr (2): Eevee, Mail-mi
Eevee (1): EFHW
Voltaire (1): Robz888
Faust(1): Yuma

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Day 1 ends November 4 at 8:00 p.m.