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[Voltaire]

Yuma, what do you think of Walrus in relation to EFHW?

Uh.... I don't know.

I had something for this...what was it. Oh, right.

I take it you find EFHW scummier, then, as she is your current vote? I saw you had voted for Walrus early on. Basically, I was/am interested in your thoughts on the Walrus wagon, now that it is bigger, since you had been voting for him earlier.

[yuma]

Pirates was extreme, but it has happened other times too, just didn't continue like that one did.  And I know you also had other reasons for your opinion in the Pirates case. 

I find Eevee suspicious b/c his townread on Robz felt manufactured to me given his extensive experience of playing with Robz.  I think he is looking for towncred because he knows Robz will flip town.  Since then he has called on his own experiences as scum to support accusing Walrus.  This always makes me suspicious, as well, but I have seen people do that as town, too.

What games would those be?

Cause I don't think we have played that many games together... Not enough for it to be a trend.

We were partners in MXX.

Pirates you already mentioned, we haven't played in any other normal games since then...

We were together in ZM14... I don't think it happened there, but I remember little from that game. We were together in ZM12, again remember very little from that.

Double checked ZM14 you had a town read on me, so nothing there I think

ZM12 I never had a scum read on you....

RMM games... Have we been any together?

LOR2... I did a search for votes on you... You received one vote for you all game... From TA day3... So I didn't vote for you there.


So basically you are using exactly one game as evidence (Pirates) and then saying that there are other examples of which as far as I can tell there are exactly none!

?

[Voltaire]

Post Count
27 Voltaire
20 EFHW
18 yuma
15 faust
13 Eevee
12 Robz
11 Walrus
9 mail-mi
6 chairs

[faust]

Post Count
27 Voltaire
20 EFHW
18 yuma
15 faust
13 Eevee
12 Robz
11 Walrus
9 mail-mi
6 chairs

It's interesting how little this post count resembles my impression of how active the players have been...

[Voltaire]

It's interesting how little this post count resembles my impression of how active the players have been...

Agreed. I get pretty much nothing from it. I usually eliminate the top poster from my lynch pool but I can't very will eliminate myself (I always do).

[Eevee]

Surprised to see Voltaire lead the post count. I guess it's that he has been going against the flow lately, especially day 1. I honestly think that's a great thing and love his approach, a bit surprised we aren't seeing any original ideas from him here yet.

[yuma]

Yuma, what do you think of Walrus in relation to EFHW?

Uh.... I don't know.

I had something for this...what was it. Oh, right.

I take it you find EFHW scummier, then, as she is your current vote? I saw you had voted for Walrus early on. Basically, I was/am interested in your thoughts on the Walrus wagon, now that it is bigger, since you had been voting for him earlier.

I mean... yeah. I guess I have a scummier read on EFHW than Walrus. My initial vote on him was pretty early for something rather insignificant... the removing of a vote. I think I found his putting it back on to be on the townier side rather than scummier.... maybe. It is one of those things that is kinda a tossup.

I could vote for him, but at this point I am not going to vote for him just because his wagon is now bigger when there are other options out there that I think are better (albeit slightly).

[Robz888]

Surprised to see Voltaire lead the post count. I guess it's that he has been going against the flow lately, especially day 1. I honestly think that's a great thing and love his approach, a bit surprised we aren't seeing any original ideas from him here yet.

He's like always leading the post count since his return though. Although I seem to think he was more subdued in the game where he was actually scum, XXIX.

[yuma]

Robz, why haven't you voted for anyone yet?

[Robz888]

Robz, why haven't you voted for anyone yet?

There's no specific reason. Nothing has jumped out at me and caused me to place a vote.

[Eevee]

Surprised to see Voltaire lead the post count. I guess it's that he has been going against the flow lately, especially day 1. I honestly think that's a great thing and love his approach, a bit surprised we aren't seeing any original ideas from him here yet.

He's like always leading the post count since his return though. Although I seem to think he was more subdued in the game where he was actually scum, XXIX.

I know, the surprise was because I didn't think he had been that present in this game - mostly because he hasn't had the original ideas I've grown to expect from him. I think Voltaire's day 1 reads have been better than anyone else's lately, but here he hasn't to my understanding done anything but criticize or sheep existing cases. Going with the flow without causing any waves is not what I'd expect from town Voltaire day 1.

[Voltaire]

I know, the surprise was because I didn't think he had been that present in this game - mostly because he hasn't had the original ideas I've grown to expect from him. I think Voltaire's day 1 reads have been better than anyone else's lately, but here he hasn't to my understanding done anything but criticize or sheep existing cases. Going with the flow without causing any waves is not what I'd expect from town Voltaire day 1.

This game did get off to a herky-jerky start, though it's fine just now. That's probably the reason. I mean, I guess it's good that I now have a meta of being useful, even if it draws suspicion!

Where I am right now is actually having a lite scumread on yuma, but knowing I don't want to lynch him today. Yuma is always a terrible D1 lynch. I'm trying to explore other areas instead. I did my most recent vote count to try to eliminate people, but it didn't work. Chairs is phone-posting so of course he's at the bottom, mail-mi is mail-mi, and I'm at the top, and EFHW looked troublesome to me at the very start. Though I think it's more her normal meta, ie the always questioning/casting suspicion. It looks bad to be though because that is how shraeye also plays, and I haven't spent much time with town!shraeye (just Clue I think).

Which means my lynch pool is still 8. 

[Voltaire]

Which means my lynch pool is still 8. 

7.

[Eevee]

So, you think it's good play to exempt players like yuma and Voltgloss (not playing here, I know) from the day 1 lynch pool completely, barring very obvious scumslips or such? I ask because I've been pondering this - it seems their playstyle automatically rewards them with a pass for at least the first two days, and I'm wondering if it's good collective town play from us or not.

Really, when was the last time yuma got lynched AT ALL? Must be more than 10 games ago?

[Voltaire]

So, you think it's good play to exempt players like yuma and Voltgloss (not playing here, I know) from the day 1 lynch pool completely, barring very obvious scumslips or such? I ask because I've been pondering this - it seems their playstyle automatically rewards them with a pass for at least the first two days, and I'm wondering if it's good collective town play from us or not.

No, just yuma*. And just for now. Because here's the thing - scum** always kills town!yuma. Always. The one game where he threw a big fit about that not being true, he was the SK.

*and one other player, who is not in this game

**the one game since I've been here where this hasn't been true was WWTWDP, and I was scum. I have no idea why we didn't kill yuma.

As metas change and more games go into the books, this sort of thing changes.

And maybe I'll want to lynch yuma tomorrow. Just not today.

[Robz888]

So, you think it's good play to exempt players like yuma and Voltgloss (not playing here, I know) from the day 1 lynch pool completely, barring very obvious scumslips or such? I ask because I've been pondering this - it seems their playstyle automatically rewards them with a pass for at least the first two days, and I'm wondering if it's good collective town play from us or not.

Really, when was the last time yuma got lynched AT ALL? Must be more than 10 games ago?

There is actually like a good reason to not lynch the better players. If they are town, well, it's worse lynching the better town players than the mediocre town players. Also, we expect them to get killed by scum because they are good--and lynching them feels like doing scum's job for them. And then if the good players survive too long, we have some cause to think they are scum (hopefully good evidence, and their survival is evidence itself, of a kind).

[Eevee]

Yeah, we are in agreement. I didn't mean to criticize Voltaire, just a topic I've thought about before but never really discussed with anyone.

[yuma]

So, you think it's good play to exempt players like yuma and Voltgloss (not playing here, I know) from the day 1 lynch pool completely, barring very obvious scumslips or such? I ask because I've been pondering this - it seems their playstyle automatically rewards them with a pass for at least the first two days, and I'm wondering if it's good collective town play from us or not.

Really, when was the last time yuma got lynched AT ALL? Must be more than 10 games ago?

I haven't been lynched as town since....... MXI. I am pretty sure that includes all games (Blitz and RMM as well). And have only ever been lynched on day1 once in Ozle Mafia 1.

If you talk at all, as in including scum games ... I was lynched in the end of WWD(letters I can't remember) and the end of MXIX.

I don't know if it is good town play to just give me a pass. I do think the general idea of letting players that are likely going to be nightkilled live is a good one. But I am not always NKed on early days. I am I think more often than not, especially if my reads are good, but there are numerous examples of me living for an extended period of time as town. Some basic examples are Buffy, Pirates and Simple Mafia. All of those games I lived until the end of the game as town.

I don't really ever give anyone a pass because they are good players. We are all good players. I DO however give semi-passes to players that I have an extremely hard time reading on day1. Voltgloss, Robz and shraeye. Those players I can read better on later days compared to others--partially because they are good players, but also because of their metas.

[yuma]

Robz, why haven't you voted for anyone yet?

There's no specific reason. Nothing has jumped out at me and caused me to place a vote.

Ok. I know that you are generally more cautious with your vote, but I find that a bit surprising... I think there have been a handful of things worth of placing a vote (some I disagree with the interpretation, but others I see the validity).

Say this was semi-blitz and you had to place a vote. Where would it be?

Basically I am asking for your reads. You haven't really given any at all. you said you didn't see the case on EFHW and that was about it. What are you thoughts?

[mail-mi]

So, you think it's good play to exempt players like yuma and Voltgloss (not playing here, I know) from the day 1 lynch pool completely, barring very obvious scumslips or such? I ask because I've been pondering this - it seems their playstyle automatically rewards them with a pass for at least the first two days, and I'm wondering if it's good collective town play from us or not.

Really, when was the last time yuma got lynched AT ALL? Must be more than 10 games ago?

There is actually like a good reason to not lynch the better players. If they are town, well, it's worse lynching the better town players than the mediocre town players. Also, we expect them to get killed by scum because they are good--and lynching them feels like doing scum's job for them. And then if the good players survive too long, we have some cause to think they are scum (hopefully good evidence, and their survival is evidence itself, of a kind).

Total agreement with robz right here.

[Twistedarcher]

The nine lords were at the table in the council room, arguing and yelling at one another, when Grand Maester Pycelle walked in. He waited for the lords to quiet down, then spoke softly, stroking his beard.

"My lords, it seems we have a message from Hightower. The maesters have made a decision -- the summer is no more.

Winter is coming."

Vote Count 1.3:

Robz888(2):, Voltaire, Faust
WalrusMcFishSr (3): Chairs, Eevee, Mail-mi
Eevee (1): EFHW
EFHW (2): Yuma, Walrus
Not Voting (1): Robz888

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Day 1 ends November 4 at 8:00 p.m.

[yuma]

Where I am right now is actually having a lite scumread on yuma, but knowing I don't want to lynch him today. Yuma is always a terrible D1 lynch. I'm trying to explore other areas instead.

Since no one else is talking about anything, I am going to ask about this?

what is causing this read (even if it is lite)?

Previously you have said about me:

Fascinating unusual behavior by yuma, as far as I can tell, but I see no reason to be concerned by it right now.

And while I am asking a question, what conclusion did you come to in regard to Walrus/EFHW? You said you were deciding which was scummier and which you wanted to join. But you are still on Robz yes? Is that where you want to be?

[EFHW]

The wagon on Robz.. hmmh. First of all, I don't like the attitude of "not having to do anything to make it disappear". But, would Robz be so bold as mafia? I can't say he is a townread for me, but I'd expect mafia to be less controversial in their wording of the critique for the wagon. Just playing more pro-town would have been an easier path for Robz, for sure.

Am I the only one who finds this suspicious (manufactured b/c Eevee knows Robz well)?  I know Voltaire agreed w/me that Robz would indeed say that as scum. 

[yuma]

The wagon on Robz.. hmmh. First of all, I don't like the attitude of "not having to do anything to make it disappear". But, would Robz be so bold as mafia? I can't say he is a townread for me, but I'd expect mafia to be less controversial in their wording of the critique for the wagon. Just playing more pro-town would have been an easier path for Robz, for sure.

Am I the only one who finds this suspicious (manufactured b/c Eevee knows Robz well)?  I know Voltaire agreed w/me that Robz would indeed say that as scum.

I don't get what the issue is. What eevee is saying here is true.... Playing more pro-town would have been an easier path for Robz. Sure Robz is capable of being that bold...

And eevee does know Robz really well. You can't dispute that.

What I do find more suspicious is your suspicion of eevee...

[WalrusMcFishSr]

Walrus I never have a lot of serious content early on.  I keep posting to help the game move forward, and ask questions for the same reason, but I didn't have any feeling strong enough to vote on until Eevee's post.  Notice, I didn't vote for you or yuma, I simply made some mild observations.  You both responded with long posts and votes against me.

But mild observations are the scummiest kind!


lol thanks chairs for taking the time to call me out even under such adversity. When you get proper Internet I'll expect you to be posting at volumes upward of 1 Gbit/s!

This recent interaction between EFHW and yuma doesn't make me feel any worse about my current vote. It seems like yuma makes well-reasoned arguments drawing from evidence. I worry a bit that maybe he's pushing it a little too hard, like why is he digging so deep for this? But it still seems more towny than not to me. And also, although I wasn't playing, I followed Dynasty Warriors, and I too was dazzled by the efficacy of town. So I'm willing to listen to any analogies that involve that.

Finding Robz a bit townier lately, with more frequent, more Robzy posts.

I told you I would fall behind in the post count! I wonder how it would look if you tallied total word count?

Surely Voltaire has cultivated a meta of usefulness. But I agree with Eevee; I haven't perceived exactly the kind of zim-zam-boom! usefulness that I expected from you this game. That's sort of what I was driving at earlier. Maybe that was just a problem with my expectation though...obviously you are being an active player now to say the least.

The notion of a legacy pass to experienced players is a subversive meme propagated by the Mafia elite to keep down the proletariat!

Naaaah I can understand that line of reasoning. But how do you think it makes the proletariat feel?