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[Twistedarcher]

Vote Count 1.2:

Robz888(3): Mail-Mi, Voltaire, Faust
WalrusMcFishSr (2): Chairs, Eevee
Eevee (1): EFHW
EFHW (2): Yuma, Walrus
Not Voting (1): Robz888

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Day 1 ends November 4 at 8:00 p.m.

[chairs]

I'll just say that I feel very comfortable with my vote right now.

[mail-mi]

Just popping in to say that I don't mind a wagon on Walrus. Hes a slight scummy read.

[Voltaire]

The first wagon never succeeds, a Day 1 wagon against me has very little chance of succeeding, and one with absolutely no evidence has zero chance of succeeding. So, for better or worse, there's nothing I have to do to stop this wagon.

sudgy.

[Voltaire]

If it's a nulltell, then is your vote on him just for pressure?

No.

[WalrusMcFishSr]

Thanks for the reads post, faust, that's something to work with. I fully admit that I've been more active in this game than in previous ones. Part of that is that I have accrued a bit of experience and feel more comfortable...I am also trying to limit myself to one game at a time. Toy Story looks cool and everything, but I get the feeling that if I joined another game, I would only invest half the effort in each one, and I think that's kind of lame. And yes, I realized that jumping on you for the same reason is a bit hypocritical. It was just my initial observation to kick off the game.

Eevee, I wouldn't describe it as asking for town's "permission", so much as gauging the town's interest. It seems like I'm the only one who's talked about mail-mi (excepting EFHW's finding my finding him scummy scummy), and I was wondering if anyone else shared my sentiments. I didn't want to vote for him (yet) because I wanted to see if this EFHW train goes anywhere. But I still think he's being scummy, and I'd like to know what others think. By now I think he's been lurkier than Robz with less actual genuine content to consider. And I think I express my suspicion through question marks quite often actually haha

Oh chairs, you're comfortable with your vote? Good for you. I think that it's bad form to vote for me, say you've got some secret quote that you can't transcribe right now because you're at work, and then still withhold it even now. I remember that secret case in M31, but I couldn't imagine that this is anything like that, and that ended up being engineered by scum anyway, right? Hey chairs, there's some quote somewhere that you've written that makes me feel that you're scummy, so I'm going to vote for you. Oh no wait, there's not, because you haven't written anything yet worth analyzing. My sympathy for your bad Internet is dissipating.

No kidding, mail-mi. No kidding.

And good point Voltaire.

[Voltaire]

Yuma, what do you think of Walrus in relation to EFHW?

[mail-mi]

Thanks for the reads post, faust, that's something to work with. I fully admit that I've been more active in this game than in previous ones. Part of that is that I have accrued a bit of experience and feel more comfortable...I am also trying to limit myself to one game at a time. Toy Story looks cool and everything, but I get the feeling that if I joined another game, I would only invest half the effort in each one, and I think that's kind of lame. And yes, I realized that jumping on you for the same reason is a bit hypocritical. It was just my initial observation to kick off the game.

Eevee, I wouldn't describe it as asking for town's "permission", so much as gauging the town's interest. It seems like I'm the only one who's talked about mail-mi (excepting EFHW's finding my finding him scummy scummy), and I was wondering if anyone else shared my sentiments. I didn't want to vote for him (yet) because I wanted to see if this EFHW train goes anywhere. But I still think he's being scummy, and I'd like to know what others think. By now I think he's been lurkier than Robz with less actual genuine content to consider. And I think I express my suspicion through question marks quite often actually haha

Oh chairs, you're comfortable with your vote? Good for you. I think that it's bad form to vote for me, say you've got some secret quote that you can't transcribe right now because you're at work, and then still withhold it even now. I remember that secret case in M31, but I couldn't imagine that this is anything like that, and that ended up being engineered by scum anyway, right? Hey chairs, there's some quote somewhere that you've written that makes me feel that you're scummy, so I'm going to vote for you. Oh no wait, there's not, because you haven't written anything yet worth analyzing. My sympathy for your bad Internet is dissipating.

No kidding, mail-mi. No kidding.

And good point Voltaire.

You seem so... different. Less jokey, which I associate with your town self. Maybe it's because it's your first time being scum? Yeah, still fine with wagon. In fact, vote: walrus

[Voltaire]

Eevee, I wouldn't describe it as asking for town's "permission", so much as gauging the town's interest. It seems like I'm the only one who's talked about mail-mi (excepting EFHW's finding my finding him scummy scummy), and I was wondering if anyone else shared my sentiments. I didn't want to vote for him (yet) because I wanted to see if this EFHW train goes anywhere. But I still think he's being scummy, and I'd like to know what others think. By now I think he's been lurkier than Robz with less actual genuine content to consider. And I think I express my suspicion through question marks quite often actually haha

Oh chairs, you're comfortable with your vote? Good for you. I think that it's bad form to vote for me, say you've got some secret quote that you can't transcribe right now because you're at work, and then still withhold it even now. I remember that secret case in M31, but I couldn't imagine that this is anything like that, and that ended up being engineered by scum anyway, right? Hey chairs, there's some quote somewhere that you've written that makes me feel that you're scummy, so I'm going to vote for you. Oh no wait, there's not, because you haven't written anything yet worth analyzing. My sympathy for your bad Internet is dissipating.

mail-mi usually lurks and sheeps as town, so those are not scum tells for him. I think all you're seeing is most of the "vets" who have played with him before seeing what they'd expect, and therefore not spending much time on him. I am always theoretically up for a mail-mi vote D1, though (like I am for most all players).

And thank you for reminding me chairs did not post his case. Chairs, we need that.

[WalrusMcFishSr]

No more Mr. Nice Noob! 

 

[Eevee]

Yeah, mail-mi is so problematic. I honestly feel quite bad about it, but like half the time my first reaction to reading a post of his is wanting to vote for him. I've really tried to work on analyzing him better, but he's been scum in like every game lately, so that has been a bit hard. I've kind of given up, determining it's easier to PoE to mail-mi because mafiay behavior is easier to spot in others than in mail-mi.

It's the perfect cover for scum mail-mi of course, but I don't know what else I can do. I was in like five consecutive town mailmi mislynch wagons before he started being mafia always, I'm still quite scarred from that.

[Voltaire]

I like both the Walrus and EFHW wagons/cases. I am trying to decide which one I want to join.

[EFHW]

yuma - do you realize that almost anytime I say you are even a bit scummy you come out in a strong attack against me?  Also, I didn't follow mcmc's game.  You are saying I: 1. had a null read, 2. wanted to look for useful information in that person's wagon, and 3. found someone scummy for their defense of my null read.  These are very common events in a mafia game. 

Walrus I never have a lot of serious content early on.  I keep posting to help the game move forward, and ask questions for the same reason, but I didn't have any feeling strong enough to vote on until Eevee's post.  Notice, I didn't vote for you or yuma, I simply made some mild observations.  You both responded with long posts and votes against me. 

[EFHW]

I like both the Walrus and EFHW wagons/cases. I am trying to decide which one I want to join.

What is there in either wagon to like?  More fantasy than fact in both, I'd say.

[faust]

I like both the Walrus and EFHW wagons/cases. I am trying to decide which one I want to join.

What about the Robz wagon? He's still my preferred lynch, why do you want to leave the wagon?

[yuma]

Yuma, what do you think of Walrus in relation to EFHW?

Uh.... I don't know.

[Voltaire]

I like both the Walrus and EFHW wagons/cases. I am trying to decide which one I want to join.

What is there in either wagon to like?  More fantasy than fact in both, I'd say.

What there is to like about the case on you is that, in its original form, it was unbelievable genius from yuma that nailed theorel to the wall. Now, I don't know yuma's alignment here, and you're not doing what theorel did to the extent he did it, so it doesn't transfer nearly as much. But dang, am I tempted to agree with anyone making a case using that explanation (and I'm keeping that in the back of my mind about yuma).

Walrus has hopped his vote everyone (something I usually find a town-tell), posted a lot more, and the faust on-off was definitely crowd-pleasing. The "new scum" narrative feels strong.

[Voltaire]

I like both the Walrus and EFHW wagons/cases. I am trying to decide which one I want to join.

What about the Robz wagon? He's still my preferred lynch, why do you want to leave the wagon?

I may stay there.

[yuma]

yuma - do you realize that almost anytime I say you are even a bit scummy you come out in a strong attack against me?  Also, I didn't follow mcmc's game.  You are saying I: 1. had a null read, 2. wanted to look for useful information in that person's wagon, and 3. found someone scummy for their defense of my null read.  These are very common events in a mafia game. 

What is this based on? This game specifically or overall? The only example of this I can think of was Pirates II, where I feel like you associated by having a scum read on you because you had a scum read on me... but that certainly wasn't the case. sure my read on you was bad, but it was for entirely different reasons. I rarely, if ever, end up with a scum read on someone because they read me scummy. What good does that do? and it certainly isn't the case here. I don't care if you think I am scummy and that isn't going to stop me from finding and posting scummy things about you.

I am saying that scum often takes the "let's see how things continue" approach by expressing a null read initially and then try to steer the conversation by directing suspicion to someone taking a more solid opinion (Eevee) in this case. This is what I think you might be doing.

[Robz888]

3. Robz888 - well, his lurky/anti-town behaviour doesn't give away much.

This is just... repeating a lie over and over again until it becomes the truth. I'm not going to let it go! It's irritating!

[Robz888]

I like both the Walrus and EFHW wagons/cases. I am trying to decide which one I want to join.

I don't like the Walrus case, he doesn't seem any different than he was in M31 to me, and that's the case isn't it? EFHW, I don't know.

[Robz888]

Yeah, mail-mi is so problematic. I honestly feel quite bad about it, but like half the time my first reaction to reading a post of his is wanting to vote for him. I've really tried to work on analyzing him better, but he's been scum in like every game lately, so that has been a bit hard.

Yeah. We rarely go wrong with a mail-mi lynch.

[EFHW]

yuma - do you realize that almost anytime I say you are even a bit scummy you come out in a strong attack against me?  Also, I didn't follow mcmc's game.  You are saying I: 1. had a null read, 2. wanted to look for useful information in that person's wagon, and 3. found someone scummy for their defense of my null read.  These are very common events in a mafia game. 

What is this based on? This game specifically or overall? The only example of this I can think of was Pirates II, where I feel like you associated by having a scum read on you because you had a scum read on me... but that certainly wasn't the case. sure my read on you was bad, but it was for entirely different reasons. I rarely, if ever, end up with a scum read on someone because they read me scummy. What good does that do? and it certainly isn't the case here. I don't care if you think I am scummy and that isn't going to stop me from finding and posting scummy things about you.

I am saying that scum often takes the "let's see how things continue" approach by expressing a null read initially and then try to steer the conversation by directing suspicion to someone taking a more solid opinion (Eevee) in this case. This is what I think you might be doing.

Pirates was extreme, but it has happened other times too, just didn't continue like that one did.  And I know you also had other reasons for your opinion in the Pirates case. 

I find Eevee suspicious b/c his townread on Robz felt manufactured to me given his extensive experience of playing with Robz.  I think he is looking for towncred because he knows Robz will flip town.  Since then he has called on his own experiences as scum to support accusing Walrus.  This always makes me suspicious, as well, but I have seen people do that as town, too. 

[chairs]

Hey lots of posts! I am pleased by this activity.

Maybe I was too hard on you faust. yuma I see your point about the high posting bias. I know that I've been trying to post more myself, so that's sort of sticking my neck out a bit more as well; now that the "confused noob" meta doesn't suit me quite so well I'm trying to actually play the game a bit more. But for right now I am actually more suspicious of the lurkier crowd.

mail-mi finds me suspicious, but that's right after I called him out for being suspicious, so meh.

Of the three non-voters that Voltaire mentioned, I find Robz to be the scummiest. At first I thought you were just being Robz!Robz. But the fact that you "coincidentally" showed up when you were mentioned, and that (as Voltaire put it) you are "hanging your hat" on such a minor contribution--well, that doesn't quite sit right with me. vote: Robz--maybe some semblance of a wagon will move things along, or at least get Robz talking more.

Suspicions towards Eevee--you showed up at the beginning and made quite the show about how you were going to lurk less and participate more. But I haven't exactly seen evidence of that.

For some reason I'm getting a town vibe from EFHW. She's been quite active and seems genuine enough.

Voltaire himself is mostly a town read, although I was expecting a little more activity at the outset. Looks like you've stepped up a bit recently. Same with yuma basically--picking up on some towniness there.

The only other thing I'll add is that in the games I've played in, the "soft deadlines" haven't really worked very well. So I guess I don't really see the point in talking about that too much, and just discussing the deadline does not constitute a "high-content" post in my eyes. Maybe I'm just inexperienced though and the soft deadline has historically been a useful tool.

Also, is that damn plurality lynch clause in effect like it was in M31 and RMM9? I don't see anything about it in the rules. I won't be confounded by that one again come the end of the day.

My dad showed up unannounced preventing me from posting last night. Walrus explicitly calls out his vote for Robz as a wagon building attempt. This is what I found scummy - we frequently see scum use this excuse on day one in an attempt to avoid n making a case for their reads. Still phone posting but I'll be damned if that stops me from calling you out!

[faust]

vote: EFHW

Here is what I am seeing.... she is taking a somewhat similar stance to what theorel took in the last game. (not a perfect comparison, but I think comparable enough) Starting here...

Well, this is pretty interesting.  It's so early I have no read on Robz.  Everything he has I could him doing as either alignment.  So I don't feel like lynching him, or defending him.  Assuming he would flip town, since that is most likely, what would we have learned about the people voting him?  I'm on phone right now, so I'll try to look at that when I'm on a computer.

middle ground stance, stating that robz isn't scummy or townie, but instead more interested in people on the wagon... (same as theorel about sudgy last game)

last game theorel jumped on nkirbit for voting for sudgy. In this game EFHW is instead jumping on eevee for defending robz...

The wagon on Robz.. hmmh. First of all, I don't like the attitude of "not having to do anything to make it disappear". But, would Robz be so bold as mafia? I can't say he is a townread for me, but I'd expect mafia to be less controversial in their wording of the critique for the wagon. Just playing more pro-town would have been an easier path for Robz, for sure.

This doesn't make sense coming from Eevee who has played with Robz countless times and knows he would absolutely say that as scum or town.  He could be protecting a scumbuddy or looking for towncred vote: Eevee.

Right now I am deliberating between posting this and holding off to see where it goes. Because right now I anticipate that if the wagon on Robz stays at ~ L-1 for a while EFHW will starting defending Robz more and more (assuming of course that Robz is town, something I am actually thinking more and more likely... again another reason to move my vote just because a derphammer is always a possibility...) in the same way that theorel over time expressed a town read on sudgy after starting null on him... and also pressing more on eevee. So is seeing if that case builds worth giving town my read right now. I think it is generally always better to tell town what a fellow townie is thinking than to hold back ideas so I'll go with it.

This EFHW case seems a little constructed. It's basically this: "EHFW is acting like theorel did in that other game, only not exactly. I think she will do this and that in the future, and that would be scummy."

So EFHW has done something which weakly remsembles theorel's behaviour in M32, and you vote for her for something that she hasn't even done yet. In order for this to not look suspicious, you say "it's always better to tell town what you are thinking" which sounds reasonable but is actually false (see the whole secret case stuff in M31). It seems the reason you posted this now is more that you fear that this whole case is going to fall apart if EFHW doesn't do what you expect her to.