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[2.71828.....]

Ha! A response! Great.

First of all, I admit I borrowed a page from Robz's playbook about appearing convinced your case is good to pressure the subject into giving a more revealing reaction. It's terribly unhelpful when pretty ok cases solicit a lukewarm reaction because the subject feels he doesn't need to say much about it because even author of the case himself doesn't seem like he believes in it enough to lynch you solely based on it. But, onto the actual response. Not quoting to keep this readable.

1. I hadn't been reading the thread, so I didn't ever experience the stale lull you described. I was surprised by the easiness of catching up, so I absolutely buy this point. I still believe the scum narrative I introduced is valid, but so is this town narrative of yours. Good response!

2. True, it's not totally arbitrary - but you are confirming that you picked the criteria partially to make Archetype look bad. That's just.. bad scumhunting and a mistake, or scum trying to manipulate town towards a mislynch he deems easy (or, well, a lynch of someone not in their team anyways). Again, I believe that you believe in your Archetype-case, multiball is quite tricky. I just disagree with your way of pursuing it, it goes under manipulation whatever your alignment. Any subset of three having a good chance of hitting scum is by no means a reason to look at any trio harder than other people in itself, but I'm sure you understand this.

3. I feel dumb but.. I don't follow this point. Could you reword it?

2) Yes.  In hindsight I should have just pointed out Archetypes role in lynching faust and left it there.  Mistake on my part.  But it is a mistake whether I am town or scum.  I don't think that it says too much about my alignment.  For the sake of the argument, say I am scum.  I want the archetype lynch.  I post something like that and it now draws suspicion on myself.  Bad scum move especially because it detracts from my desired lynch and gives people a reason not to trust me. 
Now say I am town.  [cut and paste why it was bad for me to say it as scum]  Especially bad because it causes people not to trust me.

3) I never actually changed my tone concerning you.  I never really had a "tone" to begin with but was merely bumping Robz post to garner a response (which I explained under 1).  I think that the "retreat into the bunker" that was my summary post was not a retreat at all, but a statement of my "tone" about you, which ended with a non-committal overview to say the choice between town and scum eevee boils down to one post because you had been lurking

[yuma]

e is the non-faust voter I'd be most comfortable being the lynch. I definitely think LAL is going to apply here, and I think the best bet is vote: liopoil right now.

vote: liopoil

[yuma]

So some interesting things to observe from Gveo...

18 posts in game:

(List of quotes...)

Above is listed 12 different posts where Gveo either uses his newness as an excuse, says he doesn't have strong reads or is very unsure or needs to go back to find more.

I find it very interesting that so many posts contain this sort of language... I do think it would be worth going back to look at the newbie game he was in--or if sudgy or arch who played/modded in it can just remember--to compare this behavior to that game. Cause I am wondering if this is nervous new scum behavior?

I say I am not sure because I am not sure. I admit that I fear to make mistake (more than others in this game(including 2.7), I can see that they are more confident in their posts).  And I understand that this is not helpful and cannot give interaction and read to others.

All I said above are truth but those do not clear me from being "nervous scum", So:

I have been equally nervous in NMIV, it is not shown as clearly because most of the other players were new. And after looking at it myself there the last post I made is still pretty uncertain

The people in the list are pretty close together, unfortunately I still can have any definite read. I was hoping for more information in D2 but sadly no.
(the list...)

(now I read it, I actually wrote "can" despite I meant to say "can't", that may just invalid my argument, hopefully the over all meaning can still be conveyed)

[You may ask:But you are no longer a complete newbie here now, you have played before so your should be able to be more confident.]
That is what I was thinking when I enter this game, but this turned out to be overwhelming, the dynamic of this game is different form a lurky newbie game. that is why I keep saying that I am unsure and need to look at it more.


Also, everyone here have reasons to avoid mistakes and look like scummy, so it is basically neutral (it is probably a bit better for scums though).
      Town: avoid mis-lynch,  give the scums better chance to shoot actual scums.
      Scum: avoid lynch, reduce chance of being shoot by the other team.



That is what I can think of right now, please inform me if I missed any questions. I will do the reread and read list now.

I actually find Gveo's response here to be acceptable. Like I mentioned above. I don't know if it is scummy or not. But it is a trend... and the scumhunting part of me tends to latch onto trends and want to point them out, but I am learning over time that trends don't always indicate scumminess (at least the last couple of times I have lynched over trends it has gone poorly), so I am wary of Gveo, but not so sure I want to lynch him right now unless we can add more substance to the case

[Voltaire]

Only reason I wouldn't go with Archetype is his mislynched meta. His vote on faust was easily the worst (least useful/helpful) of the lot.

[yuma]

The guys voting for gweo.. the case is alluring, but don't you think his partner would have told him to stop that night 1?

Did he receive any suspicion for it during Day 1? If not, given everybody else missed it I don't think it's all that likely that the partner would have picked up on it.

I do not remember. Anything of day 1.

I voted for him day1. I think I was the only one.

[yuma]

Only reason I wouldn't go with Archetype is his mislynched meta. His vote on faust was easily the worst (least useful/helpful) of the lot.

I agree.

[Jimmmmm]

...So I think we agree that the doctor claiming only slightly increases the chance that a weak PR dies. Where we disagree is if town has something to gain by the doctor claiming. I don't think they do.

OMGSCUMSLIP!

[Eevee]

The guys voting for gweo.. the case is alluring, but don't you think his partner would have told him to stop that night 1?

Did he receive any suspicion for it during Day 1? If not, given everybody else missed it I don't think it's all that likely that the partner would have picked up on it.

I do not remember. Anything of day 1.

I voted for him day1. I think I was the only one.

But was this case brought forward?

I have nothing against lynching liopoil. I quite literally remember nothing of him, other than his strong opinions on doctor claiming that were a total null tell.

[yuma]

The guys voting for gweo.. the case is alluring, but don't you think his partner would have told him to stop that night 1?

Did he receive any suspicion for it during Day 1? If not, given everybody else missed it I don't think it's all that likely that the partner would have picked up on it.

I do not remember. Anything of day 1.

I voted for him day1. I think I was the only one.

But was this case brought forward?

I have nothing against lynching liopoil. I quite literally remember nothing of him, other than his strong opinions on doctor claiming that were a total null tell.

Not really...

So I think It would be B >  D > A > C. But I am not sure right now.

This blows my mind. I can see B being before A. But no way should D be before A. No way unless Gveoniz knows something that we don't.

vote: Gveo. I am generally with Robz that I don't like lynching newer players, but this really makes me wonder (and I should mention that Gveo has played one game already, so isn't technically a true newbie)

I mean it is there... the A-B-C-D thing and he says "But I am not sure." But the point here was more that he put two scum over one.

[Jimmmmm]

I'm re-reading liopoil now. To be perfectly honest, this close to deadline I'm quite likely to sheep the IC and/or at least have my vote somewhere that is likely to help a lynch.

[2.71828.....]

...So I think we agree that the doctor claiming only slightly increases the chance that a weak PR dies. Where we disagree is if town has something to gain by the doctor claiming. I don't think they do.

OMGSCUMSLIP!

Interesting.  Now if we can pull together a hammer on liopoil before anyone has a chance to respond.....

[yuma]

...So I think we agree that the doctor claiming only slightly increases the chance that a weak PR dies. Where we disagree is if town has something to gain by the doctor claiming. I don't think they do.

OMGSCUMSLIP!

Interesting.  Now if we can pull together a hammer on liopoil before anyone has a chance to respond.....

Can't tell if this is serious or not.... but....

no such thing as a scumslip policy vote: Jimmmm  I am doing this for now on in all games no matter the game no matter the situation.

[2.71828.....]

Only reason I wouldn't go with Archetype is his mislynched meta. His vote on faust was easily the worst (least useful/helpful) of the lot.

I agree.

This was archetype's response to that line of reasoning on D1:

I take almost all responsibility for me being mislynched so often. I am a scummy player. I don't think I've ever said I wasn't (not that you're saying I have). If you think I'm scum, then vote for me. They're your reads, man.

Now, I don't know the meta to base my judgements on, but I can see where giving someone a D1 pass based on past mislynches that occur because of similar behavior.  A D2 pass for the same reason?  Not as sure about that.

[Jimmmmm]

Can't tell if this is serious or not.... but....

Not particularly. Thought I'd poke the fire a bit. 

[2.71828.....]

Can't tell if this is serious or not.... but....

Not particularly. Thought I'd poke the fire a bit. 

Wait, I thought he was asking if I was serious, not you.  So if I found you to be serious when you weren't, is it a scum read on me because you weren't seriously serious about being serious about liopoil.  (ok I will stop the joke now)

[Jimmmmm]

Can't tell if this is serious or not.... but....

Not particularly. Thought I'd poke the fire a bit. 

Wait, I thought he was asking if I was serious, not you.  So if I found you to be serious when you weren't, is it a scum read on me because you weren't seriously serious about being serious about liopoil.  (ok I will stop the joke now)

Seriously?

[Jimmmmm]

Can't tell if this is serious or not.... but....

Not particularly. Thought I'd poke the fire a bit. 

Wait, I thought he was asking if I was serious, not you.  So if I found you to be serious when you weren't, is it a scum read on me because you weren't seriously serious about being serious about liopoil.  (ok I will stop the joke now)

Actually I think you're right, he was asking you.

[Robz888]

I am also aware of Archetype's mislynch meta, but I would still lynch him here.

Although I think lurking is more in character for him.

Well, I'm staying with Jimm though as long as there is some chance of that lynch. Biggest lurker, and humor defense.

[yuma]

asking about jimmmm... 2.7's quote got caught up in the mix... although I don't really like that he latched onto it the way he did so

[Voltaire]

Does Jimmm use humor more as town or scum though? I am more likely to use humor when I am town.

[Voltaire]

asking about jimmmm... 2.7's quote got caught up in the mix... although I don't really like that he latched onto it the way he did so

Complete agreement. vote: e

[2.71828.....]

Can't tell if this is serious or not.... but....

Not particularly. Thought I'd poke the fire a bit. 

Wait, I thought he was asking if I was serious, not you.  So if I found you to be serious when you weren't, is it a scum read on me because you weren't seriously serious about being serious about liopoil.  (ok I will stop the joke now)

Seriously?

I can't resist.  For Eevee's sake (since he likes Star Wars):

[yuma]

asking about jimmmm... 2.7's quote got caught up in the mix... although I don't really like that he latched onto it the way he did so

Complete agreement. vote: e

I guess I should agree with myself for fully as well vote: 2.7

[Robz888]

Does Jimmm use humor more as town or scum though? I am more likely to use humor when I am town.

I don't recall Jimm being a frequent user of joke and smiley defense, or else I wouldn't have broguht up. I accept thta some people do that--you do, in fact--but Jimm is pretty serious usually. And this is a serious moment and that is a serious vote and his response was weird.

[Jimmmmm]

Well, I'm staying with Jimm though as long as there is some chance of that lynch. Biggest lurker, and humor defense.

It's 4 in the morning, I'm allowed to use humour if I want to. (And just quietly this may not be the only place I've used humour in the last little while.)