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[sudgy]

Holy cow.  Anybody reread him in NMIV, and you'll agree.  Vote: Gveoniz.

[Eevee]

Holy cow.  Anybody reread him in NMIV, and you'll agree.  Vote: Gveoniz.

I'll do that, but I'm wary.. feels exactly the kind of thing his partner would have warned him about night 1.

[Robz888]

In response to Eevee's response to my case... yeah, okay. I guess it is a weak case. And you sound more like yourself now.

Do you have any comments on my very non-omgus case on you?

Robz backing out like this is a nulltell for me. It's the reasonable response, was expecting this to happen.

Not really. Frankly, I still thought it was pretty OMGUSy, mainly because there was no lead up to it, you just found me scummy all of a sudden. Anyway, the big thing seems to be that I am reacting similarly to Voltaire as to the way I did in M31? Which, yes I am reacting similarly. He gets under my skin. I'm not fighting with him to discredit him, I was fighting with him because I found him insulting.

[Eevee]

In response to Eevee's response to my case... yeah, okay. I guess it is a weak case. And you sound more like yourself now.

Do you have any comments on my very non-omgus case on you?

Robz backing out like this is a nulltell for me. It's the reasonable response, was expecting this to happen.

Not really. Frankly, I still thought it was pretty OMGUSy, mainly because there was no lead up to it, you just found me scummy all of a sudden. Anyway, the big thing seems to be that I am reacting similarly to Voltaire as to the way I did in M31? Which, yes I am reacting similarly. He gets under my skin. I'm not fighting with him to discredit him, I was fighting with him because I found him insulting.

Well, obviously it's going to feel all of a sudden - I hadn't posted in almost a week! (at least it felt like a week). I didn't go into the catching up with very strong reads of any kind, and from my perspective almost half of you are scum, so..

How much of your disagreements with Voltaire in MC was you being scum and advancing your wincon due to faked emotions/opinions?

Personally I don't understand what is it that is so insulting about his (admittedly sometimes rather strongly worded) opinions and I very much disagree with the notion of him not doing a desirable job as an IC, but I obviously don't feel your feelings and I don't want to go down the road of suspecing you for faking anger because that's just unpleasant. I'm legitimately confused though, when I say "I think the faust lynch was duuumb", no one finds me insulting. This just reminds me of MC, I had this same confused feeling of people getting so angry to Voltaire even though I felt my opinions were largely the same (and to my knowledge no one was frustrated with me).

Ultimately I'm holding off for more information on Robz, not like he is my preferred lynch with the current information anyways.

What do others think of my case on E? I rather like it.

[Eevee]

No I actually do take offense (haha! not really  of you calling my case omgusy. What the heck, there are 4 scum in 9 players (one of whom is an IC), and I didn't come to today with ANY strong scum reads.  You don't get to discredit my case on you because I hadn't suspected you earlier, this is mafia not tag, you should judge the case for it's merits. The stuff I'm suspecting you for HADNT EVEN HAPPENED (to me anyways, as I read it all at once) before you made your case on me. I do strongly feel this is how scumrobz manipulates towns - by discrediting everyone who criticizes him. Others who have played with him a lot, what do you think?

[Robz888]

In response to Eevee's response to my case... yeah, okay. I guess it is a weak case. And you sound more like yourself now.

Do you have any comments on my very non-omgus case on you?

Robz backing out like this is a nulltell for me. It's the reasonable response, was expecting this to happen.

Not really. Frankly, I still thought it was pretty OMGUSy, mainly because there was no lead up to it, you just found me scummy all of a sudden. Anyway, the big thing seems to be that I am reacting similarly to Voltaire as to the way I did in M31? Which, yes I am reacting similarly. He gets under my skin. I'm not fighting with him to discredit him, I was fighting with him because I found him insulting.

Well, obviously it's going to feel all of a sudden - I hadn't posted in almost a week! (at least it felt like a week). I didn't go into the catching up with very strong reads of any kind, and from my perspective almost half of you are scum, so..

How much of your disagreements with Voltaire in MC was you being scum and advancing your wincon due to faked emotions/opinions?

Personally I don't understand what is it that is so insulting about his (admittedly sometimes rather strongly worded) opinions and I very much disagree with the notion of him not doing a desirable job as an IC, but I obviously don't feel your feelings and I don't want to go down the road of suspecing you for faking anger because that's just unpleasant. I'm legitimately confused though, when I say "I think the faust lynch was duuumb", no one finds me insulting. This just reminds me of MC, I had this same confused feeling of people getting so angry to Voltaire even though I felt my opinions were largely the same (and to my knowledge no one was frustrated with me).

Ultimately I'm holding off for more information on Robz, not like he is my preferred lynch with the current information anyways.

What do others think of my case on E? I rather like it.

I don't really want to get into it again. I think the thing that most gets under my skin is having my town play criticized. Often it's the "lazy" accusation; people say I'm not doing anything when I'm doing more than half the players, all the time. But now and then I get upset when people tell me I'm playing badly, which is what Voltaire said here over my faust vote. Which I don't think I was stupid at all.

In M31 there was certainly a strategic component to my outrage, I' not denying that at all. Still, I did really think my case that he was SK was good, and it was just being totally ignored by everyone but Galz, even as Voltaire continued to do all the things I was calling him out on (relentless sheeping, constant OMGUS).

But yeah I really don't want to get into this all again, I'm like moving past it now. If you find that scummy, well, oh well. I just don't want to talk about it.

[Voltaire]

even as Voltaire continued to do all the things I was calling him out on (relentless sheeping, constant OMGUS).

Yeah, but you were scum and I was town. I think this is one of those "we call some things scummy, but town is more likely to do them" situations.

[Robz888]

No I actually do take offense (haha! not really  of you calling my case omgusy. What the heck, there are 4 scum in 9 players (one of whom is an IC), and I didn't come to today with ANY strong scum reads.  You don't get to discredit my case on you because I hadn't suspected you earlier, this is mafia not tag, you should judge the case for it's merits. The stuff I'm suspecting you for HADNT EVEN HAPPENED (to me anyways, as I read it all at once) before you made your case on me. I do strongly feel this is how scumrobz manipulates towns - by discrediting everyone who criticizes him. Others who have played with him a lot, what do you think?

Well, I absolutely disagree that that's how I play as scum. I think I am manifestly more likely to try and discredit people when I am town. Doesn't Voltgloss always say that I am smooth and agreeable as scum, and retaliatory and offensive as town? That scum!Robz is the one that will always say "That case against me makes a lot of sense...". I've actually never thought that was scum!tell for me, but it's been repeatedly stated as such.

Well, WIFOM of course, coming from me.

[Eevee]

I understand not wanting to talk about it, but that's the ugly thing about faking outrage once - you just have to accept you'll be suspected of doing the same every time it happens afterwards.

Especially as I'm equally confused here. This feels the same to me, you know! And I feel you are doing unfair discrediting to my case as well. Your OMGUS-argument is total bollocks.

[Robz888]

even as Voltaire continued to do all the things I was calling him out on (relentless sheeping, constant OMGUS).

Yeah, but you were scum and I was town. I think this is one of those "we call some things scummy, but town is more likely to do them" situations.

Well obviously I was wrong, but I DID think you were scum for doing them. I wanted to get you lynched because I did think you were the SK.

[Eevee]

I don't mind wifom, there is no need to be afraid of it. I would have agreed with you 10 games ago, but I think it's changing now. Can't think of any examples other than M31 though.

[Robz888]

I understand not wanting to talk about it, but that's the ugly thing about faking outrage once - you just have to accept you'll be suspected of doing the same every time it happens afterwards.

Well my outrage isn't fake here, and wasn't fake then either (although it was overstated).

Especially as I'm equally confused here. This feels the same to me, you know! And I feel you are doing unfair discrediting to my case as well. Your OMGUS-argument is total bollocks.

I mean, as I said your arugment felt OMGUS to me because it happened to come like immediately after I put a case on you, when you had said very little about me. The rest of my suspicion I think you answered fairly well and now my case doesn't look like much to me. So...I'm not sure what we're arguing about.

[Robz888]

I'm not discrediting you. You persuaded me! Sheesh.

[Eevee]

I'm not discrediting you. You persuaded me! Sheesh.

I'm not referring to your case on me, I'm talking about my case on you. You are falsely calling it omgus as an attempt to discredit me.

Well my outrage isn't fake here, and wasn't fake then either (although it was overstated).

You know what I mean - obviously not completely fake, but overstated to advance your wincon. Pretty much the same thing.

I mean, as I said your arugment felt OMGUS to me because it happened to come like immediately after I put a case on you, when you had said very little about me. The rest of my suspicion I think you answered fairly well and now my case doesn't look like much to me. So...I'm not sure what we're arguing about.

Remember I read the last 5-6 pages at once when catching up - so your timeline argument doesn't hold water. It's not like I was actively participating and null on you until you posted a case on me after which came after you. Not at all like that. Also, most of the case I'm trying to convey here is your reaction the initial case I built on you - so this actually has precedent (in the earlier case), if that's something that's important to you.

I feel you are still insisting my case on you i omgus and therefor less credible, which I think is scummy (not to mention obviously not true) , and I'm trying to call you out on it. As with sudgy, I'm not trying to convince you this is scummy, but the rest of the town here. So yeah, you are right, there is nothing to argue about, really. With other people maybe, if they agree/disagree with me/you. But with each other we obviously can't get anywhere with this.

[yuma]

Can someone summarize the Robz-Eevee conversation in four sentences max. I am not going to read all those posts... sorry guys, at least not w/o a good reason to do so.

[yuma]

Can someone summarize the Robz-Eevee conversation in four sentences max. I am not going to read all those posts... sorry guys, at least not w/o a good reason to do so.

And by someone I guess maybe have both eevee and robz give their opinion of the conversation in four sentences max... unless someone else feels like they have a really good grasp of the conversation. I got lost a while ago.

[Eevee]

My side:

Robz makes a four point case on me. (E sheeps the case, which is in my opinion scummier than anything Robz has done.) I point out that none of the points actually hold water. I post suspicions about Robz, namely that him discrediting Voltaire reminds me of MC where he did the exact same thing as scum. Robz finds my answers to his case sufficient and drops it, but brushes my case on him off as omgus. That heightens my suspicions on him because now Robz is discrediting me as well (for invalid reasons, my case isn't omgus, it's just me catching up and finding Robz scummy from what I read - I even explicitly stated that I believe Robz believed in his case on me upon making it, whatever his alignment).

[Robz888]

My side:

Robz makes a four point case on me. (E sheeps the case, which is in my opinion scummier than anything Robz has done.) I point out that none of the points actually hold water. I post suspicions about Robz, namely that him discrediting Voltaire reminds me of MC where he did the exact same thing as scum. Robz finds my answers to his case sufficient and drops it, but brushes my case on him off as omgus. That heightens my suspicions on him because now Robz is discrediting me as well (for invalid reasons, my case isn't omgus, it's just me catching up and finding Robz scummy from what I read - I even explicitly stated that I believe Robz believed in his case on me upon making it, whatever his alignment).

That's fine. Eevee debuted a scum read on me right after I posted my case on him, so it looked like OMGUS to me. Eevee hadn't said anything about me up until that point. Since then he's been really, really insistent that it wasn't. Sure, I can accept that.

Eevee's ultimately just a null to slight-scum read for me after all this. But I don't know who I'd rather lynch right now.

[yuma]

Vote Count 2.yuma

Eevee (1): Robz888
Robz888 (1): Archetype
Archetype (1): 2.71828.....
2.7182 (1): yuma
Gveoniz (1): sudgy

Not Voting (5): liopoil, Gveoniz, Eevee, Jimmmm, Voltaire

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch

Day 2 ends Sunday, November 17 at ~8 PM Forum Time.



Couple of things... can we get a hard deadline. ~8 isn't going to cut it. How about just 8?

Second anyone else extremely concerned that we are three days away from deadline (all of which are weekend days) and we have no wagon bigger than 1 vote? And that we have 5 people not voting. FOS to lio, gveo, eevee and jimmm for not voting. Voltaire, you can vote whenever you want to I suppose... I am just glad you aren't voting for me anymore....

[mail-mi]

Deadline is exactly 8 but I might not be on then. Just letting y'all know.

[Robz888]

Vote Count 2.yuma

Eevee (1): Robz888
Robz888 (1): Archetype
Archetype (1): 2.71828.....
2.7182 (1): yuma
Gveoniz (1): sudgy

Not Voting (5): liopoil, Gveoniz, Eevee, Jimmmm, Voltaire

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch

Day 2 ends Sunday, November 17 at ~8 PM Forum Time.



Couple of things... can we get a hard deadline. ~8 isn't going to cut it. How about just 8?

Second anyone else extremely concerned that we are three days away from deadline (all of which are weekend days) and we have no wagon bigger than 1 vote? And that we have 5 people not voting. FOS to lio, gveo, eevee and jimmm for not voting. Voltaire, you can vote whenever you want to I suppose... I am just glad you aren't voting for me anymore....

Yeah, I don't feel like we're in great shape.

I don't want to lynch myself, Voltaire, yuma, or 2.7, basically.

Eevee and sudgy are really the only two players I've looked at very in depth. And I don't come away with much more than, well they could be scum.

Scum have to be lurking, right? Maybe a lurker lynch? Liopoil? Archetype? Gveoniz?

[Robz888]

Post count please. I may go with LALL.

[yuma]

Post count please. I may go with LALL.

For the whole game, no pre-game posts removed... 2.7 can do a better one if he wants.

1. Voltaire - 104
2. Robz888 - 96
3. liopoil - 43
4. Archetype - 28
6. sudgy - 48
7. Yuma - 109
9. 2.71828..... - 82
11. Gveoniz - 24
12. Eevee - 45
13. Jimmmmm - 19

[mail-mi]

Even through the thick walls of the toy chest, Sarge and his Bucket O' Soldiers could hear the arguments. They'd tried at least 5 times to open the lid, but it wouldn't budge. What were they to do? Hopefully the other toys would make it out okay.

Meanwhile, in the cage, after a fierce argument between two of the toys, silence settled in the chest. Woody was almost biting his cord off. Would they ever make it out okay?

Vote Count 2.3

Gveoniz (1): sudgy
Eevee (1): Robz888
Robz888 (1): Archetype
Archetype (1): 2.71828.....
2.71828..... (1): yuma


Not Voting (5): liopoil, Gveoniz, Eevee, Jimmmm, Voltiare

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch

Day 2 ends Sunday, November 17 at 8 PM Forum Time.

[Robz888]

Vote: Jimm then, unless someone can demonstrate to me that his post-NHS posting was dramatically higher.