Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Voltaire]

Which was silly, sudgy, btw, but I still think you're town.

[Robz888]

I see that no one except for 2.7 has responded to my Eevee case.

[chairs]

The toys were anxious, all eyeing each other in a circle.  A few voices dominated the discussion even as others hung back, waiting for their moment to speak out.  All were concerned about the locks still taunting them. What would this conference bring? Would Andy and the rest of the toys find their tormentors and save the Toy Chest?

Vote Count 2.2

yuma (2): Voltaire, sudgy
Eevee (1): Robz888
Robz888 (1): Archetype
Archetype (2): yuma, 2.71828.....

Not Voting (4): liopoil, Gveoniz, Eevee, Jimmmm

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch

Day 2 ends Sunday, November 17 at ~8 PM Forum Time.

[Eevee]

I'm behind several pages, but likely won't catch up until GoT goes to night.

.. unless I absolutely need to. Do I?

[Voltaire]

I'm behind several pages, but likely won't catch up until GoT goes to night.

.. unless I absolutely need to. Do I?

Nope.

[yuma]

I'm behind several pages, but likely won't catch up until GoT goes to night.

.. unless I absolutely need to. Do I?

Nope.

I am probably in the same boat. But just because three of us are busy in another game doens't mean everyone else should suddenly clam up...

[Jimmmmm]

I'm behind several pages, but likely won't catch up until GoT goes to night.

.. unless I absolutely need to. Do I?

Nope.

I'm in roughly the same boat, with work and other commitments instead of GoT. Luckily for me, the game's going fairly slowly. I will start posting more in the next couple of days, promise!

[Gveoniz]

For some reasons we have a lot less progress today then usual. I usually come back with 3 pages of unread post, we only have 1 today.

----------------------------------

Yuma: I feel that his argument is a bit "not true" (I don't have proper word to put this), I can understand what you are talking about and have a slight scum feeling to sudgy. Sudgy's reason is certainly closely related to yours, but I don't think think that one is or imply another in a stricter sense.

For example, if someone who is voted in RVS reacted scummily, the reason for eventually lynching him is not the reason given in RVS, but more importantly, the reaction. The original thing is random instead of scummy, the only scummy part is the reaction. (I understand that the situation here is not the same, I am just trying to use a similar but more extreme case to explain.)

[2.71828.....]

The four people that currently have people voting them:
Yuma, Eevee, Archetype, Robz.

Archetype- I have already said a lot about archetype, and the bottom of this post contains a good summary of my case against him.

Yuma- A lot of controversy surrounding his decision to quicklynch faust.  There are really two options here: 1) think that yuma is telling the truth when he says he misread Voltaire's post concerning faust/sudgy (reference) and see a much more towny yuma, or 2) think that yuma is scrambling for a way to avoid a lynch.  I tend toward (1), but will keep yuma under scrutiny the rest of the game.

Eevee- Tough to get a huge read on, so let's go way back.  Eevee started out slightly opposed to the dctor claim (reference) but ended up leaning more in favor of the doctor claiming than not (see here and here) but hedged his bets a little here.  So in the end, I see Eevee as a pro-doctor claim who would have been just as happy with a non-claim.  I don't read a whole lot into that.  Next we have the Robz (Star Wars) vote.  I personally think this was RVS tagging along with my post, and I don't read anything into that.  Now, concerning the sudgy/faust controversy (before noticing the "scumslip") Eevee found sudgy slightly more scummy, but really did not read much into the situation at all.  (see here, here, and here)  That is everything from D1 Eevee.  Now D2 Eevee asks a very broad question

Would scum want to keep the people they suspect alive so they'd have someone they could legitimately build a case against (and possible get town cred for being right), or would they want to kill their suspects to eliminate the other team?

and gives no answer, but that seems to me like something asked to spur on discussion in an attempt to work out the solution.  Still, Eevee has not come back to that question yet.  However, now we get interesting, when Eevee comes out and gives us his first strong opinion of the game.  Eevee comes out strong against faust, and leads Voltaire into making a strong decision to vote yuma and keep his vote on yuma the rest of the day.

Yeah, vote: yuma and I'm done voting today. If you want to lynch someone else, you'll need to do it without my vote.

I'll still be playing, mind you. I'll be trying to help identify the other three scum.

If this is scum!Eevee expertly manipulating me, then a tip of the cap. You did it perfectly.

So the decision about Eevee is boiled down to the last line of Voltaire's post.  Is this scum!Eevee doing a great manipulation job, or is it town!Eevee finally deciding to take a stand for something after being an observer (lurker) without strong opinions all of D1.

Robz- I won't hyperlink as much since Robz has been very active and linking to all the posts where he explained different things would be outrageous.  Very strong on doctor claiming D1.  Target of "semi-RVS/I didn't like the super strong claim so early" wagon that went to nothing.  Comes out against sudgy, switches to faust when he sees the "do not kill" post.  Strong against faust rest of D-1.  Begins D2 with a little back-and-forth with our doctor about because Voltaire considered this post and others as a distancing himself from the faust lynch.  After a little while, comes back, has a big post with a lot of stuff about voltaire/faust/yuma and then comes out against Eevee. (who has not replied yet except to say he is occupied with GoT Mafia and will post when night comes there-acceptable excuse since the doctor deemed it acceptable)  Then Robz posted a bit about the renewed sudgy/faust thing, but nothing to read there.  So the questions about Robz are 1)was he doing a scummy attempt to manipulate our emotions with his big long post and 2) how scummy was his fast changeover from sudgy to yuma after he noticed the "do not kill" quote.  Maybe I am missing other arguments against Robz, but those are all I really see right now.

[2.71828.....]

What do you all think about the people with votes against them?  come on, lets post people.  (and sorry about all the hyperlinks rather than quotes, but my post would have been outrageously long had I quoted)

[2.71828.....]

Also, I think we are beating a dead horse going back down the plan/scummy to reply/scummier to reply to the reply/scumslip path.  It raised certain suspicions about Sudgy, Faust, and Yuma.  We lost Faust and saw he turned out town.  I am not saying the Sudgy and Yuma are town, but I would much rather see what they think about Eevee or Archetype than rehashing everything they discussed D1 about the plan/reaction to the plan.

[Voltaire]

Well, e gets town points for still posting.

[2.71828.....]

Let me just keep going because no one else is saying much:

2.7-Definitely town

Voltaire-Definitely the town doctor.  If someone counterclaims now they will seem super scummy and everything Voltaire has done really affirms in my mind that he is the doctor.

Jimmmmmm- Unfortunate timing to get sick just as he is joining the game, and unfortunate that he joined only at the tail end of D1.  Need more time and posts from him to get any real read, but has seemed town enough for now.

Gveoniz- I really don't have a good read on him.  He was the first to pick up on the "do not kill" line that faust used, but then seemed to accept faust's explanation without further question.  During the Faust/Sudgy episode Gveoniz gave it high probability that at least one of them was scum, and it being more likely that sudgy was the scummy one.  Later posted some good observations/thoughts here and here that no one has picked up on.  Commented on one of my own posts as "manipulative" (which no one has followed up on) and maintains a certain level of believing that sudgy is scummy and a some sort of "gut feeling" that yuma's arguments just don't add up.  If I had to give an opinion, I would say Gveoniz is town but as I said, not a clear read

I guess that leaves liopoil and sudgy.  I feel like I need to go through their whole history as well just to give them equal treatment, so they will get their post soon enough.  Give me a little time. 

[2.71828.....]

liopoil- Strong against the Doctor claim D1. (reference)(ok that wasn't a reference but these are)  The next thing about liopoil that I want to mention (that on D1 was really not a big deal at all) is that Ashersky called liopoil out for "anti-town" play.  And Ashersky is dead.  (similar to what Robz mentioned about Eevee)  (also-I am not trying to insinuate that I think liopoil is scummy because Ash thought there was a little bit of "anti-town" play (which in my opinion was a pretty strong claim for Ash to be making), but that it is worth noticing.)  After a brief interlude about soft deadlines, liopoil comes out with two well thought-out posts concerning sudgy and faust.  He ends up leaning town!sudgy and scum!faust, then is out of the argument until he comes out and puts faust at L-1 which scummy at worst and ill-advised at least.  He does couch his vote and try to make sure that some discussion happens before a hammer but, well, we all know what happened after that.  He does come out to say he missed Voltaire's post about not lynching until Monday, so the question becomes just how convenient is it that the final two voters both missed/misread crucial posts from the doctor.  (yuma misreading the post concerning faust/sudgy being town)  As far as D2 goes, lio has stayed relatively under the radar while giving good input.  The only thing to note is he has not theorized too much about the points he raised, but merely raised some good points.  Has also been pretty lurky all game.  So if liopoil is scum trying to stay under the radar, I would say he has succeeded thus far.  (not that he is scum.  His posts have a towny feel in my opinion, but still very much an under-the-radar player so far that could easily turn out scummy)

Sudgy- In favor of the doctor claim D1.  The self-proclaimed pressure vote and very fast unvote.  Then the plan.  And then calling the statement controversial rather than scummy. And everything else.  It feels to me like there is about a 50/50 split amond us on whether he comes out scummy or towny from that whole exchange.  That was sudgy D1.  D2 he immediately comes out and votes yuma for the quickhammer.  Then posts to regret to say that he is very busy and will be more active in a few days, and that is all.  Right now, I am currently leaning toward a slightly scummy sudgy, but at the same time there are people (including the doctor) who view him as town.  So my read on sudgy is slightly scummy who could very well be town.  (I know, what a non-committal read)

[2.71828.....]

and this is what a day of work where where I have basically nothing to do looks like.  summaries of my opinions on all 10 of us.

[Eevee]

e has rocketed up the scum ladder today.

rereading day 2/catching up and wow, this, first and foremost this.

[liopoil]

I'm here, caught up. I have reads too. I'll put them all together and stuff hopefully soon.

[Eevee]

im caught up and actually feel I got a decent grasp on the game despite not reading for so long. I'm super tired, so just a quick reads list to maybe spark up some discussion. I'll be back tomorrow with explanations, comments on robz's case and answers to e's clarifying questions.

but for now, I'm just mystical and give reads without explanations

town: yuma (!), Voltaire (duh)

scum: robz, e, sudgy, archetype

wouldn't have remembered they are playing had e not just referenced them (nice job with the summary posts btw, your effort is appreciated): liopoil (!), jimm, whoever else isn't mentioned except for gweoniz who I need to reread, jury is still out.

I feel I had another town read but my brain is failing me. more to
come tomorrow!

[liopoil]

I have time for that too:

town to scum (might change a bit when I actually write stuff up):

liopoil/voltaire
sudgy
e
yuma
gveoniz
jimmmm
robz
eevee
archetype

[Robz888]

im caught up and actually feel I got a decent grasp on the game despite not reading for so long. I'm super tired, so just a quick reads list to maybe spark up some discussion. I'll be back tomorrow with explanations, comments on robz's case and answers to e's clarifying questions.

but for now, I'm just mystical and give reads without explanations

town: yuma (!), Voltaire (duh)

scum: robz, e, sudgy, archetype

wouldn't have remembered they are playing had e not just referenced them (nice job with the summary posts btw, your effort is appreciated): liopoil (!), jimm, whoever else isn't mentioned except for gweoniz who I need to reread, jury is still out.

I feel I had another town read but my brain is failing me. more to
come tomorrow!

Okay, can't wait to hear the reason you think I'm scum that isn't pure OMGUS.

[yuma]

Is this what feeling burned out feels like?

I have never felt so apathetic to a mafia game before. which is bad because I really should be trying to make up for my mistake from earlier, but man... I just don't really feel like putting any effort into this.

But.... I will try:

So let's start with people that voted for me early on day2. Keep in mind this isn't OMGUS. This is with a very specific idea in mind. Basically given what happened at the end of day1 it wouldn't have out of the range of possibilities for a mafia team to think that I was a different mafia team. As such I thought that perhaps they might try and kill me during the night. But they didn't. So I have to ask why? The answer is that they are hoping I will be a mislynch (or a from their perspective a lynch of opposite mafia, which is even better for them than a NK). So I am thinking people that came out of day2 with heavy suspicion on me may fit into that category.

Who are they?

Voltaire came out, but he is an IC. So no beans there.
Sudgy was very shortly after.

2.7 didn't vote for me. He voted for Archetype instead. But he put me very high on his suspicion list.

Archetype also doesn't vote for me, but cast suspicion my way in a passive manner and then does so less passively

Gveo also put some suspicion on me and doesn't vote anywhere.

I then bring up this theory for the first time, and since then interestingly there hasn't been a lot of movement towards me being scummy... the opposite actually.

So I think I will find scum in the above list: gveo, sudgy, archetype, 2.7. I will obviously want to give all 4 a more thorough reread. But I should also note that some players didn't post in this interlude... Jimmmm jumps to mind I think and as such should perhaps not be given a pass for not having an opportunity for finding me scummy (but I should double check who gave opinions about me and who didn't up to my theory post)....

[Archetype]

Sorry guys, been very busy with quite a few things. I should be good to go on Friday.


...if I don't get lynched before then.

[2.71828.....]

scum: robz, e, sudgy, archetype

nice.  That means me and my scum partner discussed a brilliant strategy where either

• I come out early against scumbuddy Robz to put some pressure on him that he can easily overcome that eventually leaves him feeling more towny than scummy.  Then I come out as a big supporter of Robz D2 teaming with him against the doctor.  So a little back and forth so as to throw off any suspicious thoughts about our team.
• I come out against sudgy my buddy in regard to his statement about the plan and vote/unvote.  I even accuse him of revisionist history.  However, as soon as a new target for me arrives (archetype), I jump on that and ignore sudgy.  And then in my summary post I conclude that he is 50/50, but I lean scum.
• I immediately and continuously jump on my scum partner Archetype in order to create a strong case against him that I can leave quick enough to make sure he doesn't get lynched.  But in the meantime maintain a hard line against him to make sure no one thinks of the two of us being on a team

Maybe being a little sarcastic here, but even if you do think I am scum, I don't think that you are shooting 4/4 here.  If I attempt to remove personal bias from the situation I think that (1) is most likely and (3) least likely.  But if I throw my bias (not really bias since I know I am town) back into the situation I say you can switch me out for yourself and we have a foursome that could very well all be scum.

[yuma]

vote: 2.7

[2.71828.....]

vote: 2.7

In lieu of an explanation, I will attempt to form your case against me and respond to it.  I will use your latest post (not the vote).  Tell me how I do.

So let's start with people that voted for me early on day2. Keep in mind this isn't OMGUS. This is with a very specific idea in mind.

great start. 

Basically given what happened at the end of day1 it wouldn't have out of the range of possibilities for a mafia team to think that I was a different mafia team. As such I thought that perhaps they might try and kill me during the night. But they didn't. So I have to ask why? The answer is that they are hoping I will be a mislynch (or a from their perspective a lynch of opposite mafia, which is even better for them than a NK). So I am thinking people that came out of day2 with heavy suspicion on me may fit into that category.

I agree completely.  If I were in your position and knew I was town, I would probably think on similar lines

Who are they?

Voltaire came out, but he is an IC. So no beans there.

Yes

Sudgy was very shortly after.

2.7 didn't vote for me. He voted for Archetype instead. But he put me very high on his suspicion list.

Again, a clear layout of the facts as they happened.  However, I wouldn't really say I voted for Arch "instead" of you.  Remember that I did not have an active vote until I voted arch D1 and I thought you were scummy back then, so I would make the case that I would most likely be just not voting.  Just because I view a person as scummy does not mean that I believe it is appropriate to lynch them immediately.

Archetype also doesn't vote for me, but cast suspicion my way in a passive manner and then does so less passively

Gveo also put some suspicion on me and doesn't vote anywhere.

Ok.  I can live with this.

I then bring up this theory for the first time, and since then interestingly there hasn't been a lot of movement towards me being scummy... the opposite actually.

I need to stop you right there before you go any further.  Shortly before you propose your theory, Eevee comes out with this sympathetic post in regard to your situation.  (read the last paragraph especially)  After your theory he comes out with this post that causes Voltaire to switch back to you and come out super strong saying he will vote for no one else today.  Don't forget Eevee in your list of people who came out against/slightly against you.  I also believe that the movement away from you being scummy is more of a reaction to Voltaire's polarizing post more than anything else.

So I think I will find scum in the above list: gveo, sudgy, archetype, 2.7. I will obviously want to give all 4 a more thorough reread. But I should also note that some players didn't post in this interlude... Jimmmm jumps to mind I think and as such should perhaps not be given a pass for not having an opportunity for finding me scummy (but I should double check who gave opinions about me and who didn't up to my theory post)....

Then I post my sarcastic response to Eevee and you vote for me.  Now I am sure there are other reasons why you find me the most scummy of your little lynchpool (maybe the change in my posting behavior from D1 to D2 as I get bolder with my posting or the way I hedge my post here or some other reason) but I feel that within your lynchpool there are better candidates for scum.  Also, what's with you forgetting Eevee's part in your group of "those who came out against me"