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[Robz888]

I invite you to look then.

Why is everyone so quiet?

[Robz888]

Come out scum. Say hi.

[yuma]

I invite you to look then.

Why is everyone so quiet?

Will do. But probably not until Monday, when I am off from work.

and, it is the weekend...

[yuma]

I find you mildly scummy for taking an I Told You So stance, actually.

Why? I was right. And I believe I am also right about the lack of context that volt's flip provided. I am not happy that I am right, but no one has yet proven that I am wrong. I will certainly be looking--and have already somewhat looked--for information from it, but I am going in rather skeptical to be honest. I don't see why having that opinion is scummy though.

I guess I didn't actually ask you to answer a question, because I didn't phrase it in the form of a question, but it did irk me a bit that you didn't respond to my last sentence. But to make sure you understand it is a question, I'll phrase it better:

Why do you think that taking an I Told You So stance is scummy?

[Voltaire]

Why do you think that taking an I Told You So stance is scummy?

I'll answer this, since I had the exact same reaction catching up (hi everyone, I'm caught up!). Because it's not useful, and because determining who was "right" about this sort of thing is not useful for scumhunting D2. Because it makes you look "right".

I'm not going to be able to make a meaningful catch-up/D2 reaction post until tomorrow, I still want to do weekend things. But this from yuma stood out and is the only thing from D2 I've found worth commenting on.

[Robz888]

And because it was a tad too forceful. I understand that it's nice to be right, but you were over-the-top about it. I can easily imagine it being a sumQT-tested idea, to play the I Told You So card.

[liopoil]

And because it was a tad too forceful. I understand that it's nice to be right, but you were over-the-top about it. I can easily imagine it being a sumQT-tested idea, to play the I Told You So card.

I would have thought we would have learned our lesson about scumhunting based on looking for who was talking in scum QTs yesterday..... I'm not buying it.

[liopoil]

Well, let me leave you all with this.  I don't expect anyone to believe this now, but if you lynch me, perhaps you'll come back to this after my flip.

Vote: Robz

Robz planted the idea of "early VT claim = scummy" regarding ash.  But he has not pushed that line of thought heavily - not nearly like he did in the game where pingpongsam did the same thing and got crucified for it.  Instead, he let me push it instead.  This is likely scum!Robz, who likes nothing more than to see me make his cases for him. 

I believe ash.  But be careful gang about his focus on yuma.  I'm not convinced yuma is scum - I think ash v. yuma is town v. town, being egged on by scum on the sidelines.  Unfortunately, ash will probably try to force a him-or-me with yuma.  ash, if you're town:  Just please be careful about doing that. 

I think shraeye is town and doing his damnedest.  I'm sorry I blundered into your sights.  That's on me, not on you.

...coming back to this...

not really sold on the robz bit, that doesn't seem like much. I agree with ash-yuma being town-town. shraeye? no idea, I should look at his case again. I remember I didn't like it, but dunno if it was scummy or not.

[yuma]

Why do you think that taking an I Told You So stance is scummy?

I'll answer this, since I had the exact same reaction catching up (hi everyone, I'm caught up!). Because it's not useful, and because determining who was "right" about this sort of thing is not useful for scumhunting D2. Because it makes you look "right".

I'm not going to be able to make a meaningful catch-up/D2 reaction post until tomorrow, I still want to do weekend things. But this from yuma stood out and is the only thing from D2 I've found worth commenting on.

I understand what you are getting at here. But I disagree. It is useful. Because hopefully we all learned a valuable lesson here. And that is that "slips" don't equal scum. And that to lynch based solely off a "slip" is just plain dumb. My point really wasn't to pat myself on the back and say "look at me, I am soooo right, you guys were soooo wrong." No. That should be apparent from the result. But rather to drive home the point that blindly going through with a lynch based off a "slip" hasn't worked here, it hasn't worked in the past and it won't work in the future (in this game or in other ones).

[yuma]

And because it was a tad too forceful. I understand that it's nice to be right, but you were over-the-top about it. I can easily imagine it being a sumQT-tested idea, to play the I Told You So card.

too what end?

[Robz888]

And because it was a tad too forceful. I understand that it's nice to be right, but you were over-the-top about it. I can easily imagine it being a sumQT-tested idea, to play the I Told You So card.

too what end?

To look townier.

[Robz888]

Or to play up your towniness, rather.

[Robz888]

And also, thee's something to this as a self-fulfilling prophecy, because you put out this sort of in-your-face statement, I Told You So (you even bolded it!), that we shouldn't have done that lynch and that there will be ntohing to talk about because of it. So of course, we aren't doing much flip analysis because we are arguing about whether your statement was correct.

[shraeye]

Why do you think that taking an I Told You So stance is scummy?

I'll answer this, since I had the exact same reaction catching up (hi everyone, I'm caught up!). Because it's not useful, and because determining who was "right" about this sort of thing is not useful for scumhunting D2. Because it makes you look "right".

I'm not going to be able to make a meaningful catch-up/D2 reaction post until tomorrow, I still want to do weekend things. But this from yuma stood out and is the only thing from D2 I've found worth commenting on.

I understand what you are getting at here. But I disagree. It is useful. Because hopefully we all learned a valuable lesson here. And that is that "slips" don't equal scum. And that to lynch based solely off a "slip" is just plain dumb. My point really wasn't to pat myself on the back and say "look at me, I am soooo right, you guys were soooo wrong." No. That should be apparent from the result. But rather to drive home the point that blindly going through with a lynch based off a "slip" hasn't worked here, it hasn't worked in the past and it won't work in the future (in this game or in other ones).

Also, the slip was part of the case for sure, but I'd be suspicious of peopel voting for it solely based on it's slippiness.  That shit was wrong, and I'm frustrated it was.  I literally did a victory dance when I found that, and now it's just wasted calories.  But the case was based around the tag-slip, him shotgunnign suspicoiun, and helping scum with a demand for readlists, which basically let sucm engineer who kills AND lynches shoud be, something I think would be especially easier in this game because of daychat.

Then, when called out, Voltgloss really acted like caught sucm to me.  So I felt super grate about his lynch for various reasons.  When I'm clearer minded, Imma read back and see who was just like "oh yeah, that's a huge slip" and jumped on what looked to be lke a super easy mioslynch to them.

[Robz888]

Yeah, I agree, the reaction was actually the part where I felt like, "oops, we caught you." But clearly not.

[yuma]

Or to play up your towniness, rather.

how does that make me look townier?

[shraeye]

i'm too drinky to understnad what Robz/yuma are fighitng about.  Robz is scummy because he didn't talk bout vigs, and yuma is scummy because he told you so?  That's about all I understand, and neither psoition seems reasonable.

[yuma]

And also, thee's something to this as a self-fulfilling prophecy, because you put out this sort of in-your-face statement, I Told You So (you even bolded it!), that we shouldn't have done that lynch and that there will be ntohing to talk about because of it. So of course, we aren't doing much flip analysis because we are arguing about whether your statement was correct.

This is true. I will admit that. But I certainly didn't anticipate my comment becoming the focal point of attention. But I still don't see you doing any flip analysis. Or really anyone else. If you want to prove me wrong, but I imagine that there is less to gain out of it than there would be from a non-slip related lynch. I still haven't had the time to go back and look myself... and it appears no one else has either... so maybe the fact that it has been the weekend has more to do it than anything else?

[yuma]

i'm too drinky to understnad what Robz/yuma are fighitng about.  Robz is scummy because he didn't talk bout vigs, and yuma is scummy because he told you so?  That's about all I understand, and neither psoition seems reasonable.

I haven't said anything about Robz not talking about vigs...

[liopoil]

I said the thing about vigs. it is very possible he forgot though, so it's not a huge point. but then he seems like he's over-making up for it now, so that's a bit suspicious too.

[Voltaire]

I'm beginning to think that it's very possible that nkirbit is town, and Voltgloss is gearing up to have me be the suspicious character that takes the rap for any nkirbit lynch.

shraeye, what do you think about nkirbit now?

[Voltaire]

It's really appropriate though! I am literally sticking my tongue out at you, because we got you on a scumslip! And now you are trying--politely, I might add--to set me up for mislynch.

How is this possible? You are saying that if Voltgloss is scum, which most of us thought at the time, he is trying to set you up for a mislynch. That doesn't work - Volt, as town, knows that he is going to flip town and is trying to send his strongest read before dying (good town play). You, thinking Volt is scum, claim he is setting you up for a mis-lynch. But you should be thinking that he will flip scum, in which case we will ignore whatever he says. In what universe do we sheep dead scum?

[Robz888]

It's really appropriate though! I am literally sticking my tongue out at you, because we got you on a scumslip! And now you are trying--politely, I might add--to set me up for mislynch.

How is this possible? You are saying that if Voltgloss is scum, which most of us thought at the time, he is trying to set you up for a mislynch. That doesn't work - Volt, as town, knows that he is going to flip town and is trying to send his strongest read before dying (good town play). You, thinking Volt is scum, claim he is setting you up for a mis-lynch. But you should be thinking that he will flip scum, in which case we will ignore whatever he says. In what universe do we sheep dead scum?

I was thinking that he would flip scum, so we would say, "Okay, Volt is scum, who is he aligned with? Well, what has he done. You know, he was really anti-Robz at the end. Irrationally anti-Robz. Wanna bet Robz is his partner and he was doing that to make us think Robs was the one person who wasn't his partner?" It's WIFOM (there's an expression we haven't sen in a while...).

[Voltaire]

Eevee continues to lurk hard and mail-mi has gone silent. Like the entire town. This is not how we win.

Let's look at the wagon and see if we can get any blood out of the "turnip".

Players of unknown alignment in gray. I don't see any way UoS wasn't our cop so he's green. I'm leaving ash gray for now, he seems far less clear.

Voltgloss (7): shraeye, ashersky, Robz888, Eevee, nkirbit, Jorbles, mail-mi (Voltaire)
Robz888 (1): Voltgloss
ashersky (1): yuma
Jorbles (1): UmbrageOfSnow

Not Voting (2): liopoil, Voltaire

YMMV, but consider me on the Volt wagon. Or off, if you'd prefer what actually happened.

There's three scum in here somewhere, and one of them is happy with any lynch at all. I think there's a darn good chance there's at least two scum on Volt's wagon. In fact, there pretty much has to be unless both yuma and lio are scum unless the vig shot ash the scum. Removing ash, that leaves:

shraeye, Robz888, Eevee, nkirbit, Jorbles, mail-mi

I'd go vote: mail-mi > Eevee > nkirbit > Jorbles > shraeye > Robz from scum to town. The vote is

I cannot decide what to make of yuma and lio being off-wagon. lio rarely votes and I find that scummy, but it is consistent with his meta. I have no idea how to catch scum yuma anymore, not that I ever did. I do not like his D2 one bit, I can say that much.

[Voltaire]

I'd go vote: mail-mi > Eevee > nkirbit > Jorbles > shraeye > Robz from scum to town. The vote is

Finishing this thought:

I'd go vote: mail-mi > Eevee > nkirbit > Jorbles > shraeye > Robz from scum to town. The vote is for lurking now as well as my D1 case.