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[nkirbit]

I feel like I kind of deserve this for just not paying enough attention to the game... Both days I've come under criticism for lurking, when really I've just been busy.

I posted the cases I did when I did because, well, that's when I came back.  I know that's awfully convenient, but that's the truth.

[Robz888]

Usually when everyone thinks I'm town, I'm actually scum. So this is weird. But oh well.

Uh, I don't have justify myself anymore, yes? I can just be like, it's <scummy>yuma... mail-mi... voltaire... shraeye... nkirbit<townish>

[nkirbit]

I do think that in terms of scumslips based on language, town are way, way more likely to make such slips than scum is because they're much, much less likely to go back and re-read their posts.  When's the last time we've actually caught someone in a scumslip?

[nkirbit]

Usually when everyone thinks I'm town, I'm actually scum. So this is weird. But oh well.

Uh, I don't have justify myself anymore, yes? I can just be like, it's <scummy>yuma... mail-mi... voltaire... shraeye... nkirbit<townish>

I don't get why you think Yuma is scummy.. is it really just that he's still alive?

[Voltaire]

Uh, I don't have justify myself anymore, yes? I can just be like, it's <scummy>yuma... mail-mi... voltaire... shraeye... nkirbit<townish>

It would be better if you did. What's your reason for finding nkirbit townish? The fact that he's alive? I couldn't find anything else in your posts from today.

I do think that in terms of scumslips based on language, town are way, way more likely to make such slips than scum is because they're much, much less likely to go back and re-read their posts.  When's the last time we've actually caught someone in a scumslip?

While this is true, I wouldn't call the case on you scumslip based at all.

[Robz888]

Usually when everyone thinks I'm town, I'm actually scum. So this is weird. But oh well.

Uh, I don't have justify myself anymore, yes? I can just be like, it's <scummy>yuma... mail-mi... voltaire... shraeye... nkirbit<townish>

I don't get why you think Yuma is scummy.. is it really just that he's still alive?

Look, I can remember getting townie vibes from the guy in games where he was town, and just sort of not knowing in games he turned out be scum. I really do think you and shraeye are town. And there's only two other people, and probably at least two scum.

[mail-mi]

I couldn't remember when the deadline for today was so I went back and looked it up.

Day 3 ends on September 6th.

Sooner than I thought it was.

Mods: What time September 6th will the day end?

That's close. For now, I think I'll plop back down a vote: robz and try to get more retreads done tonight.

[mail-mi]

Usually when everyone thinks I'm town, I'm actually scum. So this is weird. But oh well.

Uh, I don't have justify myself anymore, yes? I can just be like, it's <scummy>yuma... mail-mi... voltaire... shraeye... nkirbit<townish>

I don't get why you think Yuma is scummy.. is it really just that he's still alive?

Look, I can remember getting townie vibes from the guy in games where he was town, and just sort of not knowing in games he turned out be scum. I really do think you and shraeye are town. And there's only two other people, and probably at least two scum.

I agree with robz on NK being townier here. I just don't see the cases y'all are pushing.

[Robz888]

What mail-mi is doing makes absolutely no sense. "Robz is scum! He's right, though."

The question I pose to the rest of the town: Does this make him more worthy of lynch than yuma?

[nkirbit]

I do think that in terms of scumslips based on language, town are way, way more likely to make such slips than scum is because they're much, much less likely to go back and re-read their posts.  When's the last time we've actually caught someone in a scumslip?

While this is true, I wouldn't call the case on you scumslip based at all.
[/quote]

Really?  The entire case is built on the premise that I, as scum, know that both Eevee and Jorbles were town, and through what I said, unintentionally conveyed the fact that I knew that.  I'm pretty sure that would be a scumslip.

I'm saying that was a scumslip.

Shraeye agrees with me.

[nkirbit]

I do think that in terms of scumslips based on language, town are way, way more likely to make such slips than scum is because they're much, much less likely to go back and re-read their posts.  When's the last time we've actually caught someone in a scumslip?

While this is true, I wouldn't call the case on you scumslip based at all.

Really?  The entire case is built on the premise that I, as scum, know that both Eevee and Jorbles were town, and through what I said, unintentionally conveyed the fact that I knew that.  I'm pretty sure that would be a scumslip.

I'm saying that was a scumslip.

Shraeye agrees with me.

FIXED.

[nkirbit]

What mail-mi is doing makes absolutely no sense. "Robz is scum! He's right, though."

The question I pose to the rest of the town: Does this make him more worthy of lynch than yuma?

I think he's wrong, but I don't think he's scum.  It is frustrating though.

I also don't really want to lynch Yuma.

[Voltaire]

I do think that in terms of scumslips based on language, town are way, way more likely to make such slips than scum is because they're much, much less likely to go back and re-read their posts.  When's the last time we've actually caught someone in a scumslip?

While this is true, I wouldn't call the case on you scumslip based at all.

Really?  The entire case is built on the premise that I, as scum, know that both Eevee and Jorbles were town, and through what I said, unintentionally conveyed the fact that I knew that.  I'm pretty sure that would be a scumslip.

I'm saying that was a scumslip.

Shraeye agrees with me.

Well I am using scumslip in the Voltgloss-tag fashion, which is how I normally see it used. I'd call the case on you scumhunting based. It's semantics I guess.

[mail-mi]

What mail-mi is doing makes absolutely no sense. "Robz is scum! He's right, though."

The question I pose to the rest of the town: Does this make him more worthy of lynch than yuma?

Ugh after I hit post I knew someone was going to say this. Nkirbit is townier. Robz is scummier. Robz thinks nkirbit is townier. Therefore, I agree with robz, even though he's scummier.

[nkirbit]

What mail-mi is doing makes absolutely no sense. "Robz is scum! He's right, though."

The question I pose to the rest of the town: Does this make him more worthy of lynch than yuma?

Ugh after I hit post I knew someone was going to say this. Nkirbit is townier. Robz is scummier. Robz thinks nkirbit is townier. Therefore, I agree with robz, even though he's scummier.

Why are you only considering Robz and myself?  There are three other players.

[mail-mi]

What mail-mi is doing makes absolutely no sense. "Robz is scum! He's right, though."

The question I pose to the rest of the town: Does this make him more worthy of lynch than yuma?

Ugh after I hit post I knew someone was going to say this. Nkirbit is townier. Robz is scummier. Robz thinks nkirbit is townier. Therefore, I agree with robz, even though he's scummier.

Why are you only considering Robz and myself?  There are three other players.

Omgosh. I was thinking that you were a topic of conversation. I popped in to say something about you, and something about robz b/c deadline is close. I am going to reread the others l8r.

[nkirbit]

What mail-mi is doing makes absolutely no sense. "Robz is scum! He's right, though."

The question I pose to the rest of the town: Does this make him more worthy of lynch than yuma?

Ugh after I hit post I knew someone was going to say this. Nkirbit is townier. Robz is scummier. Robz thinks nkirbit is townier. Therefore, I agree with robz, even though he's scummier.

Why are you only considering Robz and myself?  There are three other players.

Omgosh. I was thinking that you were a topic of conversation. I popped in to say something about you, and something about robz b/c deadline is close. I am going to reread the others l8r.

Let's re-read your posts today.  These are all the posts that address any other alive player:

-Mention that top two suspects are Robz and Nkirbit
-Say you're going to re-read Robz, but have to go to sleep
-Mention you had scumreads on both Robz and Nkirbit
-Reread of Robz (null-to-scummy)
-Answered Shraeyes question about something in your post about Robz
-Re-read Nkirbit.  After that, you're comfortable with voting Robz. (and you vote)
-Mention that you need to re-read Shraeye
-You get the concern about Yuma, but there are better options
-Nkirbit defended himself well
-Robz is more of a gut feel
-Go back to a vote on Robz
-Agree with Robz on NKirbit being towny
-Clarify views on Robz and Nkirbit

This is not Robz and Nkirbit being the topic of conversation.  This is you hardcore tunneling on Robz and myself.  You should look elsewhere.

[nkirbit]

I still don't think Mail-Mi is scum, though.  Were he scum, he could have easily voted me.. he has shown a history of being suspicious of me and has a track record of sheeping.  I don't think anyone would be more suspicious of mail-mi for sheeping onto me (although they probably would after this post, ha!)

[Robz888]

I still don't think Mail-Mi is scum, though.  Were he scum, he could have easily voted me.. he has shown a history of being suspicious of me and has a track record of sheeping.  I don't think anyone would be more suspicious of mail-mi for sheeping onto me (although they probably would after this post, ha!)

Okay. Well, you've done a really good job of convincing me you are town, by the way. I don't think we agree on whose scum, which is unfortunate. WHat do you make of VOltaire?

[nkirbit]

I still don't think Mail-Mi is scum, though.  Were he scum, he could have easily voted me.. he has shown a history of being suspicious of me and has a track record of sheeping.  I don't think anyone would be more suspicious of mail-mi for sheeping onto me (although they probably would after this post, ha!)

Okay. Well, you've done a really good job of convincing me you are town, by the way. I don't think we agree on whose scum, which is unfortunate. WHat do you make of VOltaire?

Yesterday, I was convinced he was Lio's partner.  His defense of Lio kept shifting, (He first defended Lio as legitimately scumhunting.  After I pointed out that this doesn't clear Lio, since both SK and Mafia need to hunt each other, he changed to opposing the Lio lynch because there was too much support for it.  When Yuma pointed out that only 5 players supported it, he kind of just backed off.)  But he never reconsidered the case on Lio (or at least never appeared to) and never gave a good defense.

The feeling I get from his actions towards Lio were that he had made a decision that he was going to be off-wagon, and was looking for reasons to justify himself being offwagon, rather than trying to figure out whether or not Lio was town or scum.  When I initially said his first defense was shoddy, instead of reconsidering his position on the Lio wagon, he immediately looked for another way to justify his position.  While the cases were wrong on Lio, I do think there were multiple solid cases with good points.. it wasn't a random lynch at all.  But he never really addressed the cases themselves.

While he's obviously not Lio's partner, since Lio isn't scum, I still do believe that he made a decision to stay off-wagon yesterday, and wasn't a town member trying to figure out if he was correct or not.  With the information of Lio's flip, this leads me to the conclusion that he is possibly scum who was off-wagon to get town credit.

There's also the fact that he's voting for me right now.  While I know OMGUS isn't a reason to vote someone, it is some evidence.  We have 6 players left in the game, and probably at least 2 scum.  We could even be in LYLO.. we just don't know.  I know I'm town, and if you believe a town, a player driving a case on a town member is at least somewhat decent evidence towards their scumminess (not enough to vote someone alone.. but maybe enough to put them over the edge?  I'm not sure).

[shraeye]

I do think that in terms of scumslips based on language, town are way, way more likely to make such slips than scum is because they're much, much less likely to go back and re-read their posts.  When's the last time we've actually caught someone in a scumslip?

But there are scumslips and scumslips.  "oops I typed town instead of scum" is a more forgiveable mistake than

"here I'm going to make the premise that these two people are town even though I shouldn't have that knowledge"

The first is a typo, the second shows a mistake in reasoning driven by the fact that somebody has more knowledge than others.

[shraeye]

However... I have to bring up my big concerns about yuma. Basically, it boils down to this: Yuma is still alive. And yuma is, without a doubt, the best scumhunter left in this game (he is arguably the best town player overall in my view). Most of the time, he is taken out at some point, because scum fear his awesome scumhunting abilities. And often when he DOES survive day after day, it's because he's scum. See Mean Girls and Deep Space Nine for examples of this (XIX and... XXV? My memory IS starting to fade on the numbers, unfortunately).

There are of course counter examples to this, and you know, maybe scum had higher priorities. (Certainly shooting UoS Day 1 was a big one). But, like, a bunch of scum decided to kill harmless lurkers Eevee and Jorbles, over yuma? Is that not a sign that yuma is himself scum?

This is exactly the same worry I was having.  If I'm scum, I'm taking out the town-leadingest voices first.  But there are two teams, so for yuma to be town, TWO teams had to have not wanted to kill him.  There obviously is incentive for the non-yuma team to shoot at him, so this line of reasoning leads me to suspect...well now that I think about it pretty much everyone but Robz.  I want to reread nkirbit's scumQT from Clue, but I remember them night-killing me because of how much I suspected them; possibly Eevee/Jorbles had put a lot of suspicion on nkirbit?  If I don't get around to rereading that QT, I really hope somebody with more time can follow that lead.

I have a little bit of an issue with how this is phrased.  Maybe I'm looking into this too much, but this sentence really comes off to me as saying, "Okay, let's start with the assumption that Nkirbit is guilty and find evidence to support it" rather than saying, "Let's look at this evidence neutrally and see what we can learn from it."  It's just very leading. 

Here is paranoia.  My quote does not call you out as scummy.  It says that I need to do some following up.  I don't see how you are accusing me of saying "nkirbit is guilty; let's go find evidence".  That quote was mostly me thinking about the yuma-alive argument and arguably casts more suspicion on him than you.  But still you are finding me fishy for my stance on you here?

[nkirbit]

However... I have to bring up my big concerns about yuma. Basically, it boils down to this: Yuma is still alive. And yuma is, without a doubt, the best scumhunter left in this game (he is arguably the best town player overall in my view). Most of the time, he is taken out at some point, because scum fear his awesome scumhunting abilities. And often when he DOES survive day after day, it's because he's scum. See Mean Girls and Deep Space Nine for examples of this (XIX and... XXV? My memory IS starting to fade on the numbers, unfortunately).

There are of course counter examples to this, and you know, maybe scum had higher priorities. (Certainly shooting UoS Day 1 was a big one). But, like, a bunch of scum decided to kill harmless lurkers Eevee and Jorbles, over yuma? Is that not a sign that yuma is himself scum?

This is exactly the same worry I was having.  If I'm scum, I'm taking out the town-leadingest voices first.  But there are two teams, so for yuma to be town, TWO teams had to have not wanted to kill him.  There obviously is incentive for the non-yuma team to shoot at him, so this line of reasoning leads me to suspect...well now that I think about it pretty much everyone but Robz.  I want to reread nkirbit's scumQT from Clue, but I remember them night-killing me because of how much I suspected them; possibly Eevee/Jorbles had put a lot of suspicion on nkirbit?  If I don't get around to rereading that QT, I really hope somebody with more time can follow that lead.

I have a little bit of an issue with how this is phrased.  Maybe I'm looking into this too much, but this sentence really comes off to me as saying, "Okay, let's start with the assumption that Nkirbit is guilty and find evidence to support it" rather than saying, "Let's look at this evidence neutrally and see what we can learn from it."  It's just very leading. 

Here is paranoia.  My quote does not call you out as scummy.  It says that I need to do some following up.  I don't see how you are accusing me of saying "nkirbit is guilty; let's go find evidence".  That quote was mostly me thinking about the yuma-alive argument and arguably casts more suspicion on him than you.  But still you are finding me fishy for my stance on you here?

You didn't say "Let's look at Eevee/Jorbles and see what we can learn about Nkirbit."  You suggested that the evidence would lead towards a specific conclusion.

In fact, when Yuma went back and said "Eevee and Jorbles didn't have a scumread on Nkirbit at all", you definitely didn't come out and say that it was evidence supporting my townness?  Why not?  Yuma did the following up for you, and it was the opposite of what you had pointed out here... yet you never said "Oh, townpoints for Nkirbit".  You just ignored it.  If you were looking at it neutrally, why didn't you go back to it and say that it didn't match your initial suspicions?  Instead, you have appeared to ignore the stuff that opposes your narrative.

[nkirbit]

I do think that in terms of scumslips based on language, town are way, way more likely to make such slips than scum is because they're much, much less likely to go back and re-read their posts.  When's the last time we've actually caught someone in a scumslip?

But there are scumslips and scumslips.  "oops I typed town instead of scum" is a more forgiveable mistake than

"here I'm going to make the premise that these two people are town even though I shouldn't have that knowledge"

The first is a typo, the second shows a mistake in reasoning driven by the fact that somebody has more knowledge than others.

Replace the word theory with plan and it's a typo, me simply typing a message quickly and not choosing the correct word, and not going back and editing my posts.

Seriously, if you replace the word theory with the word plan, it's an entirely coherent sentence with a straightforward meaning.

[shraeye]

I replaced the word theory with plan.  It didn't makes sense. 

You were worried that scum were lurking, but that plan is shot now...?  Your plan to....worry that scum were lurking?  Your plan to call out lurkers for being scummy?