Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Voltaire]

Chairs feels like a convenience lynch.  Don't like it.

Elaborate.

[Voltaire]

Stating totally cool with someone else stating intent to hammer.

Chairs should get a chance to claim if he wants to.

[ashersky]

Chairs feels like a convenience lynch.  Don't like it.

Elaborate.

Easy lynch for scum to push through to save a partner.

[UmbrageOfSnow]

Chairs feels like a convenience lynch.  Don't like it.

Well to a certain extent, it is convenient for consensus building.  I've voted for my other two top picks (Robz and Mcmcsalot) and both have a few people supporting their lynchings, but don't seem to have enough, and people seemed hesitant to actually move their votes over.  I know I moved my vote to Chairs because he was the 3rd it my top-tier of scumreads and right around when I started thinking about the deadline he started acting more scummy with the refusals to explain anything rather than just passively avoiding explaining anything.

I think he's the vote of least resistance, yes, but I think that's because a majority of people find him scummy.  And because he's not really putting any energy into defending himself, just continuing to refuse to support the scumreads he's pushing with any kind of evidence.

Maybe his not bothering to defend himself makes him less scummy, but I don't really buy it.  He is bothering to post, he just seems to not be refuting the claims at all.  (Then again, I have this problem with Robz and Mcmcsalot too...)

Is acting indifferent and disinterested really the best way to avoid getting scumvotes in this community?

[UmbrageOfSnow]

Although you may have something there, Ash.  Hmmm.

Think we can get enough people on Robz or Mcmcsalot?

Because I'd really rather lynch Chairs than anyone but those two, and no offense, but you defending him doesn't necessarily make him any more towny in my eyes.

[UmbrageOfSnow]

It's not his vote of Robz that makes me itch, though.  It's  just an odd duck of a list to me to vote robz on.  I feel like it's "excuse to sheep kthx" as he specifically follows up by mentioning your (Snow's) read of Robz.

I was voting Robz based on a read.  I'm voting Volt based on feel.  I'd -really- like to have both, especially since Innovation really confirmed my gut check for me (I ignored my gut to vote Ahoppy because the evidence said he was the best vote).

See, he did take the time to respond to my question here (which I appreciate whether we lynch you or not, thanks chairs), but he doesn't really say anything.  He doesn't like the list.  He doesn't like sheeping.  He has a feeling.

Let me just say that if we're voting on sheeping, he should have no problem lynching mcmcsalot or Robz by the way.  Or plenty of other people.

There is enough sheeping in this game that we know for a fact that we have some town sheep!  There are only 3 scum!

[UmbrageOfSnow]

And honestly, providing a list of additional things that make you suspicious in addition to a case you agree with seems like it's not even really sheeping, by comparison.

It also seems better than voting without comment (until harassed for days) on a feeling, which we seem to have quite a bit of.

[ashersky]

Although you may have something there, Ash.  Hmmm.

Think we can get enough people on Robz or Mcmcsalot?

Because I'd really rather lynch Chairs than anyone but those two, and no offense, but you defending him doesn't necessarily make him any more towny in my eyes.

Not defending Chairs, just calling his lynch what it is, which is not the best.

You know I'm all for mcmc.

[UmbrageOfSnow]

I know you are, and we agree there.

I'm wondering aloud if we can get 5 more?

[UmbrageOfSnow]

Regarding an Mcmcsalot vote:

1. Ashersky is currently voting him.
2. Umbrageofsnow has voted for him and would happily do so again.
3. Twistedarcher said "I'd rather lynch Mcmc than either Volt or Chairs, I think"

These seem like the definite votes.  Then we have
4. Raerae "As I said, chairs is the other one I would vote for"
5. Voltaire "Chairs I find the most scummy... mcmc I also find scummy, but not as strongly.
6. Liopoil lists him in his second tier of scumminess, less so than Robz and chairs, but still scummy

Those are all the public statements I could find in recent days (might have missed something though)

7. ?

Eevee said he thought Mcmcsalot was "too easy", so I sort of doubt he'd be the 7th vote.

Although I don't know if we have a 7th vote for chairs either.

DOES ANYONE WANT TO VOTE FOR MCMCSALOT THAT I DIDN'T LIST?
WOULD ANYONE NOT ON THE CHAIRS WAGON PREFER THE MCMCSALOT WAGON?

I'm happy with either lynch.  But it would be nice to get seven people together without anyone feeling like we're getting scum to push us into compromising for a likely town-lynch.  Is that often possible?  I'd like it to be, but I admit I don't know.

[shraeye]

In the same post, you're:

1) Looking for a similarity between this TA and scum!TA from another game, with the implication that you would find it scummy if you found it (Defending his partners as scum).
2) Pointing out a difference between this TA and scum!TA from another game, and finding him scummy for being different.

Yes, my application of meta information isn't formulaic.  I'm not going to say "he's doing same thing, that is scummy".  I'm considering how hard/easy things are to fake.  A very patent, and easily manipulable thing is post count.  In Innovaiton, I encouraged Twisted to purposefully inflate his postcount, because I know that stuff hurts town.  I could see him working hard to not appear to be trying the same thing.

But the trying to "distance" yourself from teammates, but accidentally defending them in some way (I see Twisted's views areound me/Volt as a possible way to discourage Volt-votes).  That is a flaw in Twisted's scumgame, and given that we won in Innovation, it may not be apparent to him that it's a flaw.  So I could very easily see Twitsed repeating that mistake if he drew scum again.

[shraeye]

I want Innovation players to be verrrrrrrrrry careful about transferring their TA reads. The bold above reeks of confirmation bias to me. I have the advantage of knowing that I am town, so shraeye has at least one bad read.

See, this seems ridiculous.  You are saying that because you know I am wrong about you, the entire subset of people in teh innovation game need to be super careful about using Innovation scumTwisted meta to analyze Twisted here.

Why does me being wrong affect how careful people need to be about reading Twisted???

Are you prepared that when I flip town (when, not if) you are probably D2 lynch?

You're tunneling me hard, and calling me out for "turning conversation away from myself" when you've done the exact same thing earlier in this game.  You're very hungry for this lynch, and I think town wouldn't be nearly as hungry for a lynch on D1 as you are right now.  I unvoted because I was willing to admit I might be wrong, but the ferocity you've got for this lynch has me back to sure you must be a wolf amongst us poor sheep.  Vote: Voltaire

1. I would hope town would be smarter than that
2. If you're town, and you think town (me) is going to cause your lynch, you need to present to me a better case than the one I have on you. Not sheep shraeye's reconsideration of TA now that Inno has ended. If I have a bad case on you I want to be convinced not to lynch you but that's up to you at this point.
3. The bold is odd and reminds me of newscum play from another forum I've played on. I know that is a weak piece of evidence but I'm adding it to everything else I have.

Here too, Voltaire does something really scummy.  He accuses chairs of sheeping my reconsideration of Twisted instead of presenting cases.  How in the world does chairs voting for Voltaire mean that chairs is sheeping my TA read??  Chairs' explanation for his Volt-vote has NOTHING to do with Twitsed. 

In this post, Voltaire is simply admitting that he and Twisted have a connection.  Great.  Two scum found.

[mcmcsalot]

Chairs is the weaker of my scum reads now so I'm by no means jumping for joy with this lynch.

[Voltaire]

In this post, Voltaire is simply admitting that he and Twisted have a connection.  Great.  Two scum found.

Ur tunneling is lolz.

I'm feeling better and better about a chairs lynch simply because it does not seem to be easy. We only have 6 people on him, and that's taken a bit. (The only votes I'd consider suspicious if chairs flips town right now are Eevee and lio, but I don't think that's going to happen)

[Voltaire]

In this post, Voltaire is simply admitting that he and Twisted have a connection.  Great.  Two scum found.

Ur tunneling is lolz.

In all seriousness, what I am doing is trying to protect one of my town reads (TA). Somebody else (forget who right now) also pointed out that you seem to have confirmation bias about him.

[shraeye]

In this post, Voltaire is simply admitting that he and Twisted have a connection.  Great.  Two scum found.

Ur tunneling is lolz.

In all seriousness, what I am doing is trying to protect one of my town reads (TA). Somebody else (forget who right now) also pointed out that you seem to have confirmation bias about him.

I'm pretty sure you're the person who said that.  Can't think of any other.

[Jimmmmm]

Oh goodness, I'm so lost in this game. Kind of surprised I haven't received more heat for lurking. Anyway. I re-read chairs, and I0 don't know. I didn't really see anything that made me think one way or another to be perfectly honest.
I still think ash has a greater than average likelihood of being scum, but not that much greater, and certainly lower than 50%.

So I re-read Volt as well, and I'm feeling a tad better about a Volt lynch than a chairs lynch.

First thing I noticed is his reaction to my very first post of the game. I hate talking about things like this because it's about something he said about me, and not even I can tell if I'm being biased, but anyway.

I'm more eyeing his flavor claim suggestion. Only possible way it's not scummy is if he himself was trying to bait people into agreeing with him.

I'm more eyeing his flavor claim suggestion. Only possible way it's not scummy is if he himself was trying to bait people into agreeing with him.

Hey, volt, I'm on your reread now...can you explain the bolded part?  I feel like that's pretty much the definition of scummy...

Flavor claim = bad
Town should know this
So suggesting flavor claim means either
A) scum move to try to trick town into doing a bad thing
B) town move to try to trick scum into trying to trick town into doing a bad thing
at which point in B) after someone agreed, the original poster (Jimmmm in this case) would go "Ah-hah!"

The town explanation is it's a trap. I believe we talked about these earlier.

So first of all, "flavour claim suggestion" is a misrepresentation of what I actually said, which was, "Any thoughts on name claiming?" That's not a suggestion, that's simply asking for opinions, and of course the main reason I said it was to get the game going and get people talking about something other than RVS. I also had no reason at the time to believe that it would necessarily be a bad thing - in ash's LotR game we race-claimed on day 1, and it turned out that Town should have paid very close attention to those claims. Of course, now I'm firmly against name-claiming since it's part of the whole Hider thing.
Anyway, I think I've given this particular thing more attention than it deserves, but I do feel like this could be trying to paint something as scummy which isn't.

Can everyone please vote for me and end this day?  This is getting ridiculously anti-town to the worst degree I have ever seen in the history of f.ds mafia (well, since MX, when I first started playing).

Why am I not seeing the problem? Am I just being dumb? Like, I'm thinking this is a fine day 1 and I have no clue what you are talking about. This is so weird.

Me too! Some people started rather over-the-top protests against the theory talk, but other than that, things seem to be progressing quite reasonably. I'm trying to decide what it means that some people are trying to paint this day as terrible.

Something struck me as odd here about the "things seems to be progressing quite reasonably" part. Maybe it's just the way I heard it in my head, but he seems sort of, I don't know, aloof, like he's watching the progress from somewhere else and has a good idea of what he wants to see and would consider progress, which is kind of how I have felt as scum.

Because it's annoying as all get-out when I have one player (ash) going nuts in the thread, and another (you) discouraging posting. I'm going to play the game I want to play, where I scumhunt and post and talk to other players and try to be pro-town.

Something struck me about this post as well, and I think it's the part about trying to be pro-Town. Now admittedly he also mentioned scumhunting, but I think when I'm Town I don't worry too much about trying to be pro-Town, I worry about catching scum. Now obviously that involved doing "pro-Town" things like gleaning information and working towards a good, timely lynch. But when I'm scum, my entire game is about trying to be, or at least appear, pro-Town.

Anyway. Volt has struck me as a little overly-righteous-indignant at times and too loud about being pro-Town. Perhaps what I've said isn't a terribly good case, but I do feel better about supporting the Volt lynch than the chairs lynch, and with the deadline approaching, my vote is definitely better off on a lynch option than over in nowhere land. So Vote: Voltaire.

[Voltaire]

I'm pretty sure you're the person who said that.  Can't think of any other.

You seem to miss things a lot!

In the same post, you're:

1) Looking for a similarity between this TA and scum!TA from another game, with the implication that you would find it scummy if you found it (Defending his partners as scum).
2) Pointing out a difference between this TA and scum!TA from another game, and finding him scummy for being different.

You're finding him scummy for being different in one aspect, and scummy for being the same in a different aspect!  I don't see why this would be any different than finding him towny for being different one way, and towny for being the same in another way.  Basically, I think you could spin his similarities and differences as either scummy or towny depending on what your goals were.

I just don't put much merit into your read on him.  Can you give me a reason why his similarities or differences mean he's scummy that's more compelling than why they make him towny?

[Voltaire]

1. Note that I haven't tunneled you for that beginning of game thing - I just mentioned it, it went nowhere, I dropped it, you're a null read.
2. The rest of your case seems to be focused on the fact that I've stated I'm town trying to be pro-town, and then some gut read stuff. Obviously, one can not reason with a gut.

If you're town, I'm glad you re-read chairs, just disappointed you landed on me. I urge you to re-consider the fact that chairs has:

1. only really popped up in thread when he's been mentioned
2. jumped onto wagons in the traditionally scummy range (ie pushing them over the edge to viable)
3. failed to explain his reads

To me, this is a great case relative to the fact that it's D1. I hope it can be to you too.

[Robz888]

I think lio is really scummy for how he slipped onto the chairs wagon now, although I will be much more comfortable asserting that if chairs does indeed flip town.

Vote: liopoil

[ashersky]

I think lio is really scummy for how he slipped onto the chairs wagon now, although I will be much more comfortable asserting that if chairs does indeed flip town.

Vote: liopoil

If Voltaire is scum, so is Robz.  Oddly pushing Voltaire all day, and then all of a sudden he's at L-2 and Robz finds a reason to bail?  Scummy.

[yuma]

Vote Count 1.16

Col. Mustard, Mr. Boddy and The Mechanic supervised the carrying of yuma down the stairs. Mrs. White and Mrs. Peacock carried the front of yuma while Yvette the Maid and The Singing Telegram Girl carried his legs.

They carried yuma to the study where they promptly dropped him on the floor.

"Well, this certainly was unexpected!" said Wadsworth the Butler. "How did he die?"

"From what I was able to tell," Professor Plum began.

"How can you tell? Oh, are you a doctor?" asked Yvette the Maid.

"I am but I don't practice," he responded.

"Practice makes perfect," said Miss Scarlett. "Ha! I think most men need a little practice, don't you Mrs. Peacock?"

ashersky (1): TA
Voltaire (4): shraeye, mcmcsalot, chairs, Jimmmm (L-3)
chairs (6): nkirbit, Voltaire, Eevee, Snow, raerae, liopoil (L-1)
mcmcsalot: (1) ashersky
lipoil (1): Robz


With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.
Day1 ends July 22nd at 10:30 a.m. forum time.

[ashersky]

Volt is at L-3.

[yuma]

Volt is at L-3.

Math is hard

[Jimmmmm]

1. Note that I haven't tunneled you for that beginning of game thing - I just mentioned it, it went nowhere, I dropped it, you're a null read.

That's kind of the point. I feel like scum sometimes mention things to see if others will go for it, and then drop them if they don't.

2. The rest of your case seems to be focused on the fact that I've stated I'm town trying to be pro-town, and then some gut read stuff. Obviously, one can not reason with a gut.

You're right. I don't have a particularly strong read on you, and if you're Town I'm sorry. I haven't really had time to give this game the focus it deserves, and really I felt like this close to deadline I needed to pick between you and chairs, and after re-reading both of you, that's just the way that I landed. I will happily hammer chairs if we get close enough to deadline to warrant it, just at this stage some of what you've said has struck me as a little odd, and I can't really say the same about chairs. When I get time, I will re-read chairs again, particularly if we lynch you and you flip Town.