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[nkirbit]

Why does two kills disappearing point towards Sudgy being scum?  I understand why two kills elsewhere would point to it, but two kills disappearing and two kills elsewhere are not the same.

[nkirbit]

Do you find it odd that Sudgy left you with a way to communicate back to him, but left Eevee no such method?  What he's asking Eevee, by far, needs a reply more than yours does.  But he didn't give Eevee any such method.

[nkirbit]

I must admit, I'm less sure about yourself than I am about Eevee.  I don't think I can possibly be driven off of an Eevee lynch though.. I think it's much, much better than a Sudgy lynch.

[raerae]

Why does two kills disappearing point towards Sudgy being scum?  I understand why two kills elsewhere would point to it, but two kills disappearing and two kills elsewhere are not the same.

I'm really confused here.  Help me out, please.

You think it's perfectly reasonable for sudgy to have survived the first night after his claim because he was protected somehow.

You also think it's perfectly reasonable for both Eevee and Sudgy to have survived the night after Eevee claimed because doctors or some other life saver are involved. 

You think Eevee is scum.

So you think Sudgy is town and was targeted by his lover who happens to be scum.

Am I totally misunderstanding you or are these your positions?

[raerae]

I must admit, I'm less sure about yourself than I am about Eevee.  I don't think I can possibly be driven off of an Eevee lynch though.. I think it's much, much better than a Sudgy lynch.

But they should both die so why is one better than the other?

[nkirbit]

I must admit, I'm less sure about yourself than I am about Eevee.  I don't think I can possibly be driven off of an Eevee lynch though.. I think it's much, much better than a Sudgy lynch.

But they should both die so why is one better than the other?

Because there's a chance that Eevee is lying!

[raerae]

Do you find it odd that Sudgy left you with a way to communicate back to him, but left Eevee no such method?  What he's asking Eevee, by far, needs a reply more than yours does.  But he didn't give Eevee any such method.

Not at all.  Why would he need a response from Eevee?  He was demanding, not asking.

[raerae]

I must admit, I'm less sure about yourself than I am about Eevee.  I don't think I can possibly be driven off of an Eevee lynch though.. I think it's much, much better than a Sudgy lynch.

But they should both die so why is one better than the other?

So, tell me why Sudgy is town.

[nkirbit]

I must admit, I'm less sure about yourself than I am about Eevee.  I don't think I can possibly be driven off of an Eevee lynch though.. I think it's much, much better than a Sudgy lynch.

But they should both die so why is one better than the other?

So, tell me why Sudgy is town.

Because I don't believe Eevee's claim.  I can't imagine a situation where a mafia would think for a while and conclude that the best direction to go in was telling another non-mafia player that he's mafia.  Especially when roles presuppose alignment!  If Sudgy is scum, than Eevee is either Julia/Sylvia... Julia and Sylvia don't sound like survivors to me.

[nkirbit]

Why does two kills disappearing point towards Sudgy being scum?  I understand why two kills elsewhere would point to it, but two kills disappearing and two kills elsewhere are not the same.

I'm really confused here.  Help me out, please.

You think it's perfectly reasonable for sudgy to have survived the first night after his claim because he was protected somehow.

You also think it's perfectly reasonable for both Eevee and Sudgy to have survived the night after Eevee claimed because doctors or some other life saver are involved. 

You think Eevee is scum.

So you think Sudgy is town and was targeted by his lover who happens to be scum.

Am I totally misunderstanding you or are these your positions?

What I think happened N1 was TA was the nightkill and commuted through it.  We know TA commuted, so this seems reasonable regardless of whether or not Sudgy is scum or not.  If Sudgy were town, I think scum would avoid him N1 because of the high likelihood there's a doctor protecting him.

N2, I don't know what happened.  It's possible that scum!eevee declined to NK, because he thought in the current climate he could make his claim, get sudgy lynched, then nightkill for the likely win.  It's possible that he tried to kill someone like mail-mi or efhw and the kill got stopped somehow.

I know it's unlikely, but it's just as unlikely had Sudgy been scum.  Even more unlikely, perhaps, because Sudgy doesn't have to avoid targeting an obvious doctor target.  If Sudgy is scum, his partner and him had to miss twice.  That's just as unlikely.

[nkirbit]

I really wish that Sudgy and Mail-Mi would show up so we could get more voices in here.

[nkirbit]

But, regardless of whether I'm correct, I think Eevee is a strictly better lynch than Sudgy.  Either

• Eevee is lying, and we catch scum, or
• Eevee is telling the truth that he's lovers with Sudgy, we mislynch Eevee but get Sudgy anyway, and are in the same exact spot as a Sudgy lynch.

Lynching Eevee is better than lynching Sudgy if Eevee is lying, and the same as lynching Sudgy if Eevee is telling us the truth.  Even if you think Eevee is telling the truth, you should be okay with lynching Eevee, because it's strictly better than lynching Sudgy!

[nkirbit]

The only person who should support a Sudgy lynch over an Eevee lynch at this point is Eevee's partner should he turn out to be scum.  The fact that raerae opposes this lynch, coupled together with Eevee not switching to Raerae yesterday despite claiming that he was sure she was scum, is why I think we have a raerae-eevee team.

[EFHW]

I'm wondering what the wincon of our poisoner would be, if the poisoner is separate from the scum team.  If the poisoned players don't stay dead, then serial killer doesn't work. 

If the scum send out a short-acting poison, which may or may not be drunk, then they have a very weak weapon.  So that points to another bad guy.  I don't think another team, given the size of the game, but some independent operator.  What I can't figure out is what they would be trying to accomplish.

[nkirbit]

EFHW:  My guess is that poison is just the flavor of the mafia team's NK.  I may be wrong, but that's my guess.

[nkirbit]

Also:  the flavor of my potion was not that of a poison, rather that of a sleeping potion.

[EFHW]

Also:  the flavor of my potion was not that of a poison, rather that of a sleeping potion.

You didn't mention that before.  There is a poisoner/poison doctor combo that is used, but then typically the poisoned player lives for awhile into the next day and then dies.  This could be a sleeping variant.  The poison doctor suggests that we have an actual poisoner role, in addition to scum and whatever night power they have. 

This is too, too weak to be the scum team's method of NK.  It only lasts one day! 

When did you get word that you were alive again?

You know, it's very possible that Eevee is the one handing out the potions and says he got one as a cover.  But WHY give out the potions in the first place?

[raerae]

EFHW, what do you think about kermit's idea that Eevee and I are partners?

[nkirbit]

EFHW:  As soon as I drank the potion, Ash replied with a message saying 'you're going to be asleep for one day, then wake up'.  I always knew I was going to be alive D3.  This is probably the only way to handle it, honestly, as you don't want a player to think they're dead, stop checking in on the game, then not be around when they wake up.

[EFHW]

EFHW, what do you think about kermit's idea that Eevee and I are partners?

I think it is based on a number of assumptions, any one of which could be mistaken.  Also, one of you is dogged about lynching sudgy, the other fought hard to save him.

I'm surprised at how little heat Eevee is getting for leading the TA lynch, though.  nkirbit was the first to say the equivalent of "don't worry about it."  Eevee hasn't answered my question about how TA's flip changes his logic.

[nkirbit]

EFHW, what do you think about kermit's idea that Eevee and I are partners?

Yes, I think this is what we should be discussing.  If there's a poisoner out there, we'll worry about it later, but I think this is an extremely important discussion that everyone should weigh in on.

[raerae]

I thought scum would have quickhammered TA if he was town already, so that's why I kept pushing the TA lynch. Maybe I got impatient too.

I got a really interesting whisper from sudgy last night: "With the TA lynch, me and my partner have almost no hope. The only thing that can help us is if there is a survivor or something that we can bring to our side. You seemed the most like a survivor, so that's why I'm whispering you. If you don't help us, we WILL night kill you (he has a strongman)."

I guess he was lying though as no one died, but I don't know what to think here. How could the ta lynch have hurt sudgy? He was voting for him! Does this mean two scum teams, likely yes? Does this mean we can't trust flips? Is someone impersonating sudgy to throw me off?

What do you mean?  Maybe I'm reading that wrong but I don't see anything about a kill threat.

[raerae]

EFHW, what do you think about kermit's idea that Eevee and I are partners?

Yes, I think this is what we should be discussing.  If there's a poisoner out there, we'll worry about it later, but I think this is an extremely important discussion that everyone should weigh in on.

When I ask a question to somebody, I expect them to answer.  You're opinion has been clearly stated.  Please let EFHW answer for herself.  Thank you.

[raerae]

EFHW, what do you think about kermit's idea that Eevee and I are partners?

I think it is based on a number of assumptions, any one of which could be mistaken.  Also, one of you is dogged about lynching sudgy, the other fought hard to save him.

I'm surprised at how little heat Eevee is getting for leading the TA lynch, though.  nkirbit was the first to say the equivalent of "don't worry about it."  Eevee hasn't answered my question about how TA's flip changes his logic.

Does it strike you odd that nkirbit first say, "yeah, dude, no big deal," and is now trying to lynch him? 

[EFHW]

Eevee:  You had said that had TA flipped town, you would take the blame.  I don't think this is your fault.  Lynching your lover, which you were being asked to do, would have been impossible.  It would be unreasonable for you to do so.

That being said, you said yesterday that your top scum-read was raerae, not TA.  Why weren't you making more of an effort to move the vote over there, then?

This is what he said.  So there was suspicion in his mind at that time, too.