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[xeiron]

Xeiron, mail-mi, and Eeve, the deadline is in two days (I'm pretty sure, this is from memory), if you don't post by tomorrow night, I'm voting for you.

+1 for this.

I apologize for my absence and will do my best to work towards a lynch before the deadline.

[EFHW]

I think the fact that you're attempting to discredit my case rather than defend yourself speaks volumes, as well.

Discrediting someone's case against you is an excellent method of defense.  This tips the balance for me.
Vote: TA

Oops, I wrote that wrong -- discrediting me, rather than discrediting my case.

But really, I don't see how me supporting my case, even if that's what I really meant, comes across as remotely scummy enough to tip the balance.

What tips the balance is "speaks volumes to me".  This is consistent with what seems to me to be a dramatic exaggeration of nkirbit's scumminess. 

[Twistedarcher]

Will you two stop??

The sheer lack of response from other players makes me think this is town on town.  If it were town on scum, somebody would be defending one read or the other but considering you two are the only ones super convinced of your cases leads me to believe scum is just sitting back, waiting for one wagon or the other to gain steam.

There hasn't been a sheer lack of reponses-- We've now had 3 other players (Lio, Xeiron, EFHW) jump on Nkirbit's case on me, and then had Sudgy agree with my case on Nkirbit.

For the people voting me, do you really think that, as scum, I'd create a case on the player with the biggest town reads from most people? Or do you think it's morel likely that I truly think he's town? (even if you do disagree with the case!)

[Twistedarcher]

I think the fact that you're attempting to discredit my case rather than defend yourself speaks volumes, as well.

Discrediting someone's case against you is an excellent method of defense.  This tips the balance for me.
Vote: TA

Oops, I wrote that wrong -- discrediting me, rather than discrediting my case.

But really, I don't see how me supporting my case, even if that's what I really meant, comes across as remotely scummy enough to tip the balance.

What tips the balance is "speaks volumes to me".  This is consistent with what seems to me to be a dramatic exaggeration of nkirbit's scumminess.

He's responded exactly how I would expect scum to respond.

What's so frustrating to me is that both you, and now Xeiron, have voted me for my case being crap. But the reasons you are giving for my case being crap have nothing to do with my case at all!

I am frustrated that it seems like no one is actually bothering to put in any effort to read what I said. If you disagree with what I ACTUALLY said, fine, it's a valid view. But the reasons you, and now Xeiron, are giving for voting me are completely misinterpreting my case and making it clear that neither of you actually read the back and forth between myself and Nkirbit.

Ironically, I think the only person who actually understands my case is Nkirbit himself.

[Twistedarcher]

I find TA's and sudgy's cases weak, and both of them scummy for presenting them and voting based on them.

What about my case do you find weak?

I don't find your descriptions of nkirbit to be accurate.  He has been as active as anyone else, and while accusing without voting can sometimes be scummy, I don't think it is here.  It was prudent not to put Lio at L-1, especially since the wagon was such a hodge-podge of RVS and weak reads.  His rationale for the two posts made sense. In short, I agree with him that you are manufacturing a case more than discovering one.

Sudgy's listing of contradictions is similarly flimsy. 

Liopoil's assumption that one of you must be scum seems iffy to me, but I would make the same choice if I had to pick one of you.  I'm surprised to see nkirbit defending you, though, and wonder if this is a staged fight.  Saying Lio is trying to continue your fight seems like a stretch of the imagination to me.

+1 for this. especially the bolded part. I also agree with the original case.

Once again, all the conclusions draw in that paragraph ARE NOT MY CASE. You cannot reasonably vote me for my case being manufactured if you do not understand my case!!

You have your reads...EFHW, Eevee, Xeiron. Of course they're D1 reads and not rock solid, but if you feel they are more likely scum than anyone else (which you have stated that you feel), then try to bring people around to your point of view! You have said you wanted to get the game moving but didn't know how, this is a way to do it!

I was wrong when I said earlier you were playing proactively, you are playing much more cautiously than I thought you were before..

By doing what?  Stating why I had the views I had on those players?  I did that.  Would you prefer me to bully other players until they agreed?

This is starting to sound more and more like a case of a player starting at a conclusion then looking for evidence to support that conclusion.  I think it's ridiculous to look at my posts so far and claim I've been any less proactive than yourself.  I stated a read on each player, and why I had that read.  I didn't vote for Lio because raerae had interrupted my posts by putting Lio at L-2, and we clearly don't want to put a player at L-1 without having more time to talk it out.

I just reread you.  Before your case on me, you weren't any more proactive than I was.  And I guess that if you looked at Lio, or mail-mi, or sudgy, or eevee, or xeiron, you would find the same lack of proactiveness.  I'm not sure about EFHW and raerae off the top of my head, but they may be that way as well.  It's day one!  It looked like you had me out as a target for a possible mislynch, then decided to build a case on me with your conclusion in mind.

I think the reason that I'm the target here is because EFHW pointed out a great point against me:  When I made those two posts in a row.  I'll be the first to admit that that was legitimately scummy, and I was very careful in how I handled that situation.  I don't know if I did it well or not, but it's out there, and I think it's better evidence than anyone else has on them.

So basically, what I think happened here was:

1:  EFHW finds a scummy-looking series of posts that I made.  (They were legitimately scummy-looking, I agree, and am surprised more people didn't make an issue of them, to be honest).
2:  scum!twisted realizes that he's going to be away for the soft deadline, and wants to get his input in by making a solid case before he leaves.  He scans the thread, and picks his target!
3:  He makes a case, which he thinks looks okay, but I think is horrible.  You could have inserted several other players instead of me and the case would have read the same.
4:  He doesn't include the point that EFHW made earlier.  He hopes that after he makes his case, others will reread me and pick up on it, and connect the dots.

In summary, I think your case is bad because it's very vague.  You could have made the same case against any number of players (including yourself!).  I think it's fishy that you chose to make this case against a player who had an example of being scummy in the past, rather than someone else.

Vote: TwistedArcher

Why did you choose to reread me rather than someone else?  As you said yourself: 

I was wrong when I said earlier you were playing proactively, you are playing much more cautiously than I thought you were before..

You had me as playing proactively earlier, and then changed your mind (presumably by rereading).  Why did you reread me, and not another player you had a town read on?

[/quote]

I responded to this. Did you not read my responses, or are you just choosing to ignore them?

and then we have his:

If you excuse my earlier non-vote for Lio, here is my voting activity this game:

(Vote: Lio), Vote: TA  Vote: Lio  - Very recent.

and yours:

Vote: Lio  Vote: Nkirbit.

Again, you are finding me scummy for not meeting criteria that you yourself do not meet.  Do you see why I think you're being unfair?

Yes I can, but context matters, also. I'm not talking about number of votes, I'm talking about reads unsupported by votes.

I think the fact that you're attempting to discredit my case rather than defend yourself speaks volumes, as well.

Discrediting someone's case against you is an excellent method of defense.  This tips the balance for me.

Vote: TA

Oops, I wrote that wrong -- discrediting me, rather than discrediting my case.

It seems to me like the quote above discredit your case rather that your person.
Are you sure you wrote that wrong?

vote: twistedarcher

What the heck is scummy about this, exactly?? The fact that I'm supporting the case that I made??

Nkirbit's response here was not that my case was bad. It's that my case could possibly apply to me as well! (Which I disagree with). How is that discrediting the case rather than person?

Guys please actually READ my case on Nkirbit. It's clear from Xeiron and EFHW's that they haven't. Yet they've decided to park their votes on me. Lio voted for me on a reason that wasn't attributed to my case, realized it and left his vote there anyways instead of Sudgy, then only unvoted me when he was called out on it.

And you guys think that I'M the scum building a bandwagon here?? None of the votes on me (except for Nkirbit's, which is gone now) are for reasons actually related to my case other than "In short, I agree that you are manufacturing a case". I don't know how you can possibly claim that when it's very clear that no one actually understands what my case is!

[EFHW]

TA -- Perhaps you could succinctly summarize your case as you see it.  Apparently I lost track of it in all the back and forth.

[EFHW]

I find TA's and sudgy's cases weak, and both of them scummy for presenting them and voting based on them.

What about my case do you find weak?

I don't find your descriptions of nkirbit to be accurate.  He has been as active as anyone else, and while accusing without voting can sometimes be scummy, I don't think it is here.  It was prudent not to put Lio at L-1, especially since the wagon was such a hodge-podge of RVS and weak reads.  His rationale for the two posts made sense. In short, I agree with him that you are manufacturing a case more than discovering one.

Sudgy's listing of contradictions is similarly flimsy. 

Liopoil's assumption that one of you must be scum seems iffy to me, but I would make the same choice if I had to pick one of you.  I'm surprised to see nkirbit defending you, though, and wonder if this is a staged fight.  Saying Lio is trying to continue your fight seems like a stretch of the imagination to me.

+1 for this. especially the bolded part. I also agree with the original case.

Which original case are you referring to?

[Twistedarcher]

Can you summarize that, please?  I'm already reading one book and don't want to start a second.

Nkirbit has been playing reactive, not proactive. He gets his reads out there, but doesn't want to vote on a wagon, in case he is found in a scummy position lynching a town member. Despite having scum reads, he never pushed a case on any of them, yet has posted quite a bit. He's sitting back instead of scumhunting, and has yet to build a case this game (building a case goes beyond making reads).

He accuses me of lynching him as an "easy target", yet most of the people in the game have declared a town read on him. His rebuttal to my case on him (that others haven't been proactive, either) is true, but misses the point. His case on me is almost entirely based on that he thinks I built a bad case on him.

[nkirbit]

I think it's a little unfair to respond to other people misreading your case by in turn misreading my case. My case on you wasn't that your case was bad, but that it was vague. If it was a bad case that fit only me I would've been fine with it. Hence why I didn't accuse efhw for pointing out that double post

[liopoil]

hi, catching up now!

[Twistedarcher]

I think it's a little unfair to respond to other people misreading your case by in turn misreading my case. My case on you wasn't that your case was bad, but that it was vague. If it was a bad case that fit only me I would've been fine with it. Hence why I didn't accuse efhw for pointing out that double post

Well yes, but it's a bad case to you because its a vague case.

But for everyone voting for me, they are sheepish this reason, and this reason only. Voting for me assumes that I made the case specifically as a mislynch one that I knew from the start was false. Which I don't understand when they have yet to understand my case.

Nkirbit, you may disagree with the case and of course find it scummy from your point of view -- that's a natural reaction on your part.

But do you find efhw and xeiron jumping aboard scummy? I just can't believe that they would both look at my case, decide its terrible, then decide its coming from scum and not from misguided town. I may very well be wrong (I don't think so, but it's possible). But I don't think they should be voting for me solely on the basis that my case is bad/vague. There's something fishy here.

[nkirbit]

Sudgy vote on me was just as sheepish as all the votes on you (other than mine) were, in my opinion.  Do you agree with that?

I think we should make an assumption that our fight is town vs town, and analyze what happened with people voting on both sides of the wagon.  As much as you may think I'm scum, from what I've seen of people's reaction to your case, I think it's very likely that I'm not getting lynched today.

You're at L-2 right now (I think).  You would be at L-1 if I voted for you.  Can you agree to step back and tell me what your views would be if you assume we're both town?   We're both active players looking to do research, I think we can come up with a good case.

Are you willing to try it?

[nkirbit]

You're actually at two votes now.  I had forgotten that Lio had unvoted.

[nkirbit]

But do you find efhw and xeiron jumping aboard scummy? I just can't believe that they would both look at my case, decide its terrible, then decide its coming from scum and not from misguided town. I may very well be wrong (I don't think so, but it's possible). But I don't think they should be voting for me solely on the basis that my case is bad/vague. There's something fishy here.

I want to go back and re-read the reactions of Sudgy, Xeiron, EFHW, and Lio.  I think it's likely there's at least one scum in there, and the reactions here are what make me think why.

[liopoil]

So, I looked at nkirbit's and TA's post aaaaaaand I've totally flipped on my gut yet again. I now would prefer not to lynch nkirbit or TA, and if I had to choose one, probably nkirbit, but I'm not sure.

The sheer lack of response from other players makes me think this is town on town.

This rung true to me. Yes, I realize this is in direct contradiction to:

I felt like I should vote for one of the two, seeing as I think there's a good chance that at least one as scum. I think that perhaps, being brothers, they can read each other better? I know that isn't the case in mcmc-robz, but still.

good good, xeiron is back.

My gut is telling me that sudgy and eevee are the best lynches, but I haven't taken a look at their posts, which I will do so now, so that could easily change in the next 10 minutes.

[Twistedarcher]

Sudgy vote on me was just as sheepish as all the votes on you (other than mine) were, in my opinion.  Do you agree with that?

I think we should make an assumption that our fight is town vs town, and analyze what happened with people voting on both sides of the wagon.  As much as you may think I'm scum, from what I've seen of people's reaction to your case, I think it's very likely that I'm not getting lynched today.

You're at L-2 right now (I think).  You would be at L-1 if I voted for you.  Can you agree to step back and tell me what your views would be if you assume we're both town?   We're both active players looking to do research, I think we can come up with a good case.

Are you willing to try it?

Yes sudgys vote was sheepish, but at the same time he did back it up with his own facts and seemed to understand the case I was making. I disagreed with his reasons too but at least he had more than "If feel like TA is tryin to build a fake case" without actually responding to the actual case itself. Its very easy for efhw and xeiron to swoop in and agree with your reasoning, and the fact that they did so without understanding the key point of my case makes their votes more fishy that sudgys was to me -- but I admit I'm also biased.

I think if we assume we're both town, I'd vote lio next. Not sure on xeiron since he hasnt been around much but I really strongly agree with his reasoning. I think efhw is more likely town than xeiron is -- her misunderstanding seems more genuine and shes really trying to figure out whats going on ,  more than xeiron I think. So nkirbit > lio > xeiron > efhw. Lio flipping from voting for me on sudgys reasoning to thinking about voting sudgy to abandoning it to move his vote once again to one of us two is strange. Sudgy slides in at about the same place as efhw -- less scummy than xeiron.

[liopoil]

Eevee has SEVEN posts. 3 of those mention V/LA, but that's no big deal.

Hi everyone!

Yeah, I think we shouldnt massclaim or talk about massclaiming day 1.

First post, anti-massclaim, null-read.

Sorry peoples, been awfully busy and neglecting the forums.

I don't particularly care about the soft deadline, I know I'd be able to blitz it out day one or day 5 if need be. Well, I guess I share raerae's opinion of dragged out days that no one can ever reread, so I'd rather have us build interesting interactions faster.

Kudos to nkirbit for pushing us to the right direction. I don't think I agree about EHFW though, what are you implying? "A little weird" doesn't automatically mean mafia-y.

all normal eevee stuff, buddying, soft-deadline whatever, lynch mafia not scum, etc. More null!

Cursory reread, vote: liopoil. Feels a bit off. Town read on sudgy.

I don't know what to make of this at all.

unvote with a wagon this size for reasons this nonexistent, I really don't think lio is town.

This is not going to be my big catch up post, still visiting family way up north. Side note, the sun practically doesn't go down at all this time of the year which is just so freaking awesome. This place is beautiful.

Anyways, I appreciate how well everyone is taking my VLA. I'd never lie about a thing like this, but I do realize I'm a very heavy undercontributor here, and I'm sorry. I'll make sure to make up for it later, I do strongly believe I'll be an asset to the town later.

Liopoil probably being town is my biggest input at the moment, the people I want to take a look at would be raerae and especially twistedarcher.

Again, sorry I've been absent and thanks for understanding. I'm town and will do my best to make up for the lost time when I get home. Feeling good about this game.

This is interesting too. I guess this is slightly scummy because of how confident he is in my townieness and how much he emphasizes being apologetic about V/LA.

Does town!raerae or scum!raerae usually as more questions?

No idea. I very much doubt we'd catch rae that way.

Somehow I do have a feeling she wants to appear pro-town a little too much, but I already feel my "bad feeling" about liopoil was misguided (although useful!) and I felt yuma was trying to appear too pro-town in pirates and he was town, so I'm not putting a vote down or anything.

I generally don't like statements like "scum raerae asks more questions than town raerae" or "scum eevee buddies less than town eevee". It'a just so hard to know if someone just knows how he/she is perceived and is fooling you.

I agree with this, but again, no read

Eevee, you earlier voted Lio because something was "off", if I'm recalling correctly -- can you expand on this?

I can when I get to computer access (need to dig back), but it really was the most minor thing, I like to kill RVS by making a suspicion from any small thing I can find and seeing what happens.

I also didnt realize the lio-wagon was just 3 votes and a bunch of people wondering him not answering the questions. It does make me a little less certain he is town.

lean town on this. killing RVS with small things is good.

I'm back home! Expect a catch up post during the next 5 hours.

oh, really??

So I didn't find any reasons to strongly suspect him. It'd be nice if he followed through with that catch up post though.



Next, Sudgy, who has 24 posts:

slight scum vibes from RVS vote on me, and bringing up flavor claiming (his post sounded slightly against it, but not commited to it.)

- talks about soft deadline (null),

Vote: EFHW for that.  Better than nothing.

this post is totally fine, except for one thing. the "that" he is referring to is something scummy that nkirbit pointed out about EFHW. This is fine too, but look at THIS, in his very next post:

nkirbit gave EFHW a town read!  He's protecting her!  Vote: nkirbit.

so he sorta sheeps nkirbit (granted, nkirbit didn't say he found EFHW scummy for it), but then turns on him for protecting her? sure, this looks like an RVS vote, but this is at a point in the game where we are now pretty much out of RVS. this reads scummy for sure.

-after that his next two posts are about lover possibilities, then suddenly decides that's silly:

Why are we even talking about lovers anyway?  We don't even know if we have any, it would just fit with the theme...

Not neccessarily scummy, but certainly a tad inconsistant and worth of note.

I was going to vote liopoil, but then you guys said he was at L-2, so I'll Vote: liopoil for now (not a real vote).  I agree that "missing" questions like that is pretty scummy.

So, lio, could you come in here and say something?

sheeep, but that's sudgy. null on wanting to wait to vote.

-persues mail-mi for a little while, with valid reasoning. I'll have to take a look at mail-mi.

and then he sheeps TA's case, but adds more.

Thanks for doing that, here's things that stuck out to me from the re-read:

It does seem obvious from the intro that there are both mafia and town in this game, and those are the only two factions.  (Although a SK could exist.. I can't think of any in Shakespeare literature though... Titus Andronicus perhaps?)  A 7/2 split for town/mafia seems to be the only split that makes sense, or 6/2/SK.

There are probably some pretty insane roles, though (I hope there are!)  There could be a Puck character who causes characters to switch factions, or mistakenly target the wrong character at night, or some other form of puckish action.  Or Macbeth, a traitor, could be a town-aligned member who switches to the other faction when certain conditions are met (Perhaps there is a King Duncan, upon whose death Macbeth becomes a mafia member?  That'd be thematic!).  There are endless possibilities for cool roles.

Anyway, the proposed soft deadline works for me.  And thanks for the vote, Xeiron (not!)

Cursory reread, vote: liopoil. Feels a bit off. Town read on sudgy.

I do feel a bit off. This is my first RMM game, not sure what to do from here. maybe I'll go find a scummy person and vote for them.

This is my plan.  Until I have a reason not to, I'm going to treat it as a normal game.

You seem to be contradicting yourself here, first you're thinking of this game like a BM game, then a normal game.

Is it worth noting that mail-mi still hasn't answered raerae's question, despite being online since the point at which he said he would?

I actually don't find him particularly scummy for it.  I think a mafia would be much more certain to not let answering a question that they were asked, then reasked, than a town would.  It's just much more reasonable for a townie to forget to answer a question.

As I saw pointed out later, you added more to the first post.  I know as scum I've posted something then thought, "maybe that was a bad idea.  I should clarify better."  (And one time it led to my lynch...)

Lio, I didn't follow Pirates that closely either, but my view of it is that by refusing to answer questions, he doesn't make any posts that could be self-incriminating.  The best way to catch scum, especially Day 1, is by catching them in some sort of contradiction or extremely odd behavior... by never answering questions, scum can be much more sure that this will never happen.

You say that one of the best ways to catch scum is through contradictions, while you contradicted something earlier (it wasn't much, but it was something).

Your backing off of lio seemed strange...  That could be scum befriending a townie, or scum defending a partner (but still being on at some point for some towncred), or a townie thinking lio is town.

Also, you did OMGUS vote TA, which is generally considered scummy.

Wow, I disagree with a lot of this. OMGUS is not generally considered scummy. He didn't really "back of" me. contradictions are the best way to catch scum? I don't think that's true, but if it is, I'll have to vote for you. The posts he quotes are in slight disagreement at best, and double-posting for clarification has got to be null. How else should he clarify himself when he makes a mistake?

I didn't really think mail-mi was scum.  That vote was for pressure.

Woah. You definitely sounded like you thought mail-mi was scum, maybe not in that post, but you later pointed out some things you thought were scummy...

sudgy is scummier than Eevee for sure. I don't see why so many people seem to have a townread on him. He's probably my top choice for a lynch, but I haven't looked at everyone yet.

[EFHW]

But do you find efhw and xeiron jumping aboard scummy? I just can't believe that they would both look at my case, decide its terrible, then decide its coming from scum and not from misguided town. I may very well be wrong (I don't think so, but it's possible). But I don't think they should be voting for me solely on the basis that my case is bad/vague. There's something fishy here.

To the contrary, weak cases, especially those driven forward as energetically as you are driving nkirbit's, are big scumtells.  I looked at your summary, and I don't find it very different from what I thought, and still don't think you have enough to justify such a push.  Now, I know from experience that you do this as town, but it is classic scummy behavior. 

I'd be happy to put my vote back on mail-mi, but much as I hate to say it, I think we might have to forego lynching him today because of his v/la.  Would also consider xeiron, sudgy.  I read lio as town atm, and raerae.  Not enough from Eevee to tell.  nkirbit I want to see more before deciding.

[Twistedarcher]

But do you find efhw and xeiron jumping aboard scummy? I just can't believe that they would both look at my case, decide its terrible, then decide its coming from scum and not from misguided town. I may very well be wrong (I don't think so, but it's possible). But I don't think they should be voting for me solely on the basis that my case is bad/vague. There's something fishy here.

To the contrary, weak cases, especially those driven forward as energetically as you are driving nkirbit's, are big scumtells.  I looked at your summary, and I don't find it very different from what I thought, and still don't think you have enough to justify such a push.  Now, I know from experience that you do this as town, but it is classic scummy behavior. 

I'd be happy to put my vote back on mail-mi, but much as I hate to say it, I think we might have to forego lynching him today because of his v/la.  Would also consider xeiron, sudgy.  I read lio as town atm, and raerae.  Not enough from Eevee to tell.  nkirbit I want to see more before deciding.

To be fair, in the last "weak case" I pushed, I totally nailed mail mi as scum. Maybe I just read intentions differently than most others -- this case is more about nkirbits playing style than any concrete evidence, but I still think it's much better than anything else.

Can you quote specific sentences of my summary that you disagree with / find uncompelling?

[xeiron]

Which original case are you referring to?

Nkirbit's case on twistedarcher.

[EFHW]

But do you find efhw and xeiron jumping aboard scummy? I just can't believe that they would both look at my case, decide its terrible, then decide its coming from scum and not from misguided town. I may very well be wrong (I don't think so, but it's possible). But I don't think they should be voting for me solely on the basis that my case is bad/vague. There's something fishy here.

To the contrary, weak cases, especially those driven forward as energetically as you are driving nkirbit's, are big scumtells.  I looked at your summary, and I don't find it very different from what I thought, and still don't think you have enough to justify such a push.  Now, I know from experience that you do this as town, but it is classic scummy behavior. 

I'd be happy to put my vote back on mail-mi, but much as I hate to say it, I think we might have to forego lynching him today because of his v/la.  Would also consider xeiron, sudgy.  I read lio as town atm, and raerae.  Not enough from Eevee to tell.  nkirbit I want to see more before deciding.

To be fair, in the last "weak case" I pushed, I totally nailed mail mi as scum. Maybe I just read intentions differently than most others -- this case is more about nkirbits playing style than any concrete evidence, but I still think it's much better than anything else.

Can you quote specific sentences of my summary that you disagree with / find uncompelling?

No, I have to go out in a minute so I'm not going to make a detailed defense of nkirbit right now.  You feel he should have been more aggressive before the point when you started accusing him.  I feel he was being similar to the group in general and if he didn't have any strong reads he was correct not to say he did.  He was quiet for a bit, but certainly has been much more present than some.  Your subsequent attacks were in response to his defense which also seemed reasonable to me.  You are pressuring me now because I'm voting you.  I think I have explained my stance enough by now.  I may stay on you or I may not. 

[Twistedarcher]

His activity level has nothing to do with it. It's the lack of scum hunting. For someone who kept saying the game should progress and he wanted to move us forward, and making more reads than most, he made remarkably little effort to actually find scummy behavior.

This has NOTHING to do with his activity level / proactiveness in relation to others, and everything to do with his states desire to move the game forward yet inaction to dig for the evidence himself when he had many scum reads. He was around enough to have those opportunities.

I'm not asking you to defend him, I'm asking you to point out which points of my actual case you disagree with.

If he had no strong scum reads, I think he would have tried to find some -- he's smart enough to look for clues when he wants to, rather than sitting back and letting scummy behavior exhibit itself from someone else's pressure. I just am so sure that if he was town he would have at some point tried to determine who was the most scummy and try to bring people around to his point of view.

[raerae]

Eevee posted a similar "I'll write a catch up post soon" in mean girls, and similarly neither did.

If we're going to lynch an inactive player, I'd rather it be Xeiron or Mail-mi.  I really do believe that Eevee is going to come back and contribute actively, while I can't say that for sure about the other two.  It's already frustrated that I can't interact with a third of the players, and I'd rather lynch the player who I'm not sure will be active.

Why Eevee if he falls in the same boat as the others?

[raerae]

I'm not voting for kermit or TA because that game of catch they just played with giant cases was awful and felt and sounded like town on town to me.

I'm invoking LALL.

Vote: Eevee

[Twistedarcher]

I'm not voting for kermit or TA because that game of catch they just played with giant cases was awful and felt and sounded like town on town to me.

I'm invoking LALL.

Vote: Eevee

You said you thought it was town on town because no one reacted. What do you think of the people who jumped on one of the cases (Sudgy on Nkirbit) (Lio for a bit, EFHW, Xeiron on myself)