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[Jimmmmm]

We're really back to painting IRL busyness as scummy?

[shraeye]

Trust me spiritbears, whoever Robz's partner is, knew full well that Robz was getting lynched.  So EFHW most definitely isn't complaining that he didn't have time to move his vote.

You aren't getting "very little credit" for your actions, I have explicitly given you credit.  But I gave it with a caveat that I explained.  I'm not prepared to give you so much credit that I will clear your name completely.  But right now, I need to do much more reading before I can sort out my top scumreads.

You do tend to react VERY strongly to suspicion; yes, I've cast some at you in addition to giving some small amount of towncredit (hence my conflicted read), but your reaction seems like you feel that everybody is out to get you.  We're all trying to sort things out right now, and if you're town, the best thing you can do is to try to keep a level head and push forward in finding scum.

[spiritbears]

I agree that I haven't done much this game. I'm reminded why I almost swore off blitz games last time; they just never seem to suit me timewise.

Anyway. When I was asking shraeye before about what he thought of Robz I was considering the possibility of a shraeye/Robz team. shraeye continually going at Robz, and just sort of suggesting him in a bunch of different posts reminded me of yuma's bussing of Glooble in DS9. Off the top of my head, yuma didn't make a particularly solid case on Glooble, he just seemed to say, "What about Glooble? Why don't we lynch Glooble? Why has everyone forgotten about Glooble?" And of course they were scumbuddies. Could this be a similar situation? I don't know. What do others think, particularly mcmc and mail-mi? If we lynch Robz or shraeye, what if anything would their flip tell you about the other?

Here's the real dirt:  jimmm trying to set up shyrae after the immenent robzlynch.....
And particularly by asking the two fools to point the fos at shy

[shraeye]

I agree that I haven't done much this game. I'm reminded why I almost swore off blitz games last time; they just never seem to suit me timewise.

Anyway. When I was asking shraeye before about what he thought of Robz I was considering the possibility of a shraeye/Robz team. shraeye continually going at Robz, and just sort of suggesting him in a bunch of different posts reminded me of yuma's bussing of Glooble in DS9. Off the top of my head, yuma didn't make a particularly solid case on Glooble, he just seemed to say, "What about Glooble? Why don't we lynch Glooble? Why has everyone forgotten about Glooble?" And of course they were scumbuddies. Could this be a similar situation? I don't know. What do others think, particularly mcmc and mail-mi? If we lynch Robz or shraeye, what if anything would their flip tell you about the other?

Here's the real dirt:  jimmm trying to set up shyrae after the immenent robzlynch.....
And particularly by asking the two fools to point the fos at shy

I also felt that to some degree when I read Jimmm's post.  Something about the way he pointed something out that was possible, didn't draw any definitive conclusions from it (Could this be a similar situation? I don't know.), then asked the ICs about it.

What was the votecount at the time of this post?  His statement about "if we lynch Robz or shraeye, what would a flip say about the other" might have been testing the waters to see if people would do a shraeye-lynch to gain info about Robz.  It depends on how imminent the Robz-lynch looked at that time.

[shraeye]

Ah, I see it's unclear upon reviewing my post above; but the part in parantheses is the specific quote I'm pulling from jimmm's post that contributed to my feeling.

[spiritbears]

Ah, I see it's unclear upon reviewing my post above; but the part in parantheses is the specific quote I'm pulling from jimmm's post that contributed to my feeling.

It was actually so eminent it had already happened!!!!! It was after my derphammer.  Reads to me like he's trying to set this up explicitly since he knows he was off wagon and probably caught

[shraeye]

hmmmm, I would ahve found it more suspicious if he had made this post when the lynch was an open question, instead of basically already decided.

[spiritbears]

We're really back to painting IRL busyness as scummy?

I wasnt aware you had made any vLa claims. (other thsn a small complaint about blitz games in general). You certainly didn't say "hey, I can't really show up for this game....let me know when I absolutely have to post." Which is how I see your okay this game. If I'm wrong I'll gladly appologize...

[Jimmmmm]

And it's really rich you calling for more time when you coukdnt be bothered to even join the game until you had to.....

I resent that actually. Before this post, I've posted in these forums 38 times since this game started. 35 of those have been in this game. The other 3 posts have amounted to 8 sentences. So either I'm avoiding the forums in general to justify posting less here, or I've actually been busy. When I got home from nightshift this morning I slept for a few hours and spent the rest of the day with my girlfriend, including going out for lunch and having dinner at her parents' place. And as soon as I got home I was right back on this thread, knowing that the deadline was coming up. And unlike others, I don't have internet access on my phone, so I can't check in wherever I am. Currently I'm still up out of bed even though it's past 2am and I have to get up for uni at about 7am, purely to keep trying to figure this game out. So don't tell me I couldn't be bothered joining the game when you don't know what the hell I've been doing.
If you're Town, you don't do what you did. You just don't. You give intent to hammer, you wait for others to weigh in, and then you follow through. I accept that if you're Town it was a mistake. Fine, mistakes happen. But if it was a mistake then you ended the Day when you didn't mean to, ie prematurely. So you can't argue both that it was a mistake and that you didn't hammer prematurely. Because really, you swooped in from nowhere, having barely mentioned Robz previously, and "parked" your hammer vote, and are now claiming Towncred for it. That's actually one of the scummiest things I've seen yet. So Vote: spiritbears and if you're Town you've done the rest of us a major disservice.

[spiritbears]

I'm not sure on EFHW yet, but I would be surprised if there wasn't scum in Robz/shraeye. Their more recent interactions have me talking myself around to exactly one scum, but I'm not sure.

Actually no one knew robzz had been lynched at that point.  But after we are made aware,he tries to push his non case on shy again without adding any information or any real case st all before the night fsll

[Jimmmmm]

I'm not sure on EFHW yet, but I would be surprised if there wasn't scum in Robz/shraeye. Their more recent interactions have me talking myself around to exactly one scum, but I'm not sure.

Actually no one knew robzz had been lynched at that point.  But after we are made aware,he tries to push his non case on shy again without adding any information or any real case st all before the night fsll

If I'm scum then I was actually doing the opposite of pushing a case on shraeye.

[shraeye]

I'm not sure on EFHW yet, but I would be surprised if there wasn't scum in Robz/shraeye. Their more recent interactions have me talking myself around to exactly one scum, but I'm not sure.

Actually no one knew robzz had been lynched at that point.  But after we are made aware,he tries to push his non case on shy again without adding any information or any real case st all before the night fsll

If I'm scum then I was actually doing the opposite of pushing a case on shraeye.

I agree with Jimmm's assessment here.  With that post (and given Robz's alignment), he was actually arguing against a shraeye lynch.

[spiritbears]

And it's really rich you calling for more time when you coukdnt be bothered to even join the game until you had to.....

I resent that actually. Before this post, I've posted in these forums 38 times since this game started. 35 of those have been in this game. The other 3 posts have amounted to 8 sentences. So either I'm avoiding the forums in general to justify posting less here, or I've actually been busy. When I got home from nightshift this morning I slept for a few hours and spent the rest of the day with my girlfriend, including going out for lunch and having dinner at her parents' place. And as soon as I got home I was right back on this thread, knowing that the deadline was coming up. And unlike others, I don't have internet access on my phone, so I can't check in wherever I am. Currently I'm still up out of bed even though it's past 2am and I have to get up for uni at about 7am, purely to keep trying to figure this game out. So don't tell me I couldn't be bothered joining the game when you don't know what the hell I've been doing.
If you're Town, you don't do what you did. You just don't. You give intent to hammer, you wait for others to weigh in, and then you follow through. I accept that if you're Town it was a mistake. Fine, mistakes happen. But if it was a mistake then you ended the Day when you didn't mean to, ie prematurely. So you can't argue both that it was a mistake and that you didn't hammer prematurely. Because really, you swooped in from nowhere, having barely mentioned Robz previously, and "parked" your hammer vote, and are now claiming Towncred for it. That's actually one of the scummiest things I've seen yet. So Vote: spiritbears and if you're Town you've done the rest of us a major disservice.

Wow. Super defensive, and really just absurd.  You seem very upset that that robz was lynched. This is honestly the first I've ever seen killing a scum as a "disservice" to town. Scumslip.

[spiritbears]

I'm not sure on EFHW yet, but I would be surprised if there wasn't scum in Robz/shraeye. Their more recent interactions have me talking myself around to exactly one scum, but I'm not sure.

Actually no one knew robzz had been lynched at that point.  But after we are made aware,he tries to push his non case on shy again without adding any information or any real case st all before the night fsll

If I'm scum then I was actually doing the opposite of pushing a case on shraeye.

I agree with Jimmm's assessment here.  With that post (and given Robz's alignment), he was actually arguing against a shraeye lynch.

You've got to be joking.  There never was any shyrae lynch.  He was simply throwing dirt against the wall to see what would stick.  Tying you to robz without having to openly question it. 

[Jimmmmm]

And it's really rich you calling for more time when you coukdnt be bothered to even join the game until you had to.....

I resent that actually. Before this post, I've posted in these forums 38 times since this game started. 35 of those have been in this game. The other 3 posts have amounted to 8 sentences. So either I'm avoiding the forums in general to justify posting less here, or I've actually been busy. When I got home from nightshift this morning I slept for a few hours and spent the rest of the day with my girlfriend, including going out for lunch and having dinner at her parents' place. And as soon as I got home I was right back on this thread, knowing that the deadline was coming up. And unlike others, I don't have internet access on my phone, so I can't check in wherever I am. Currently I'm still up out of bed even though it's past 2am and I have to get up for uni at about 7am, purely to keep trying to figure this game out. So don't tell me I couldn't be bothered joining the game when you don't know what the hell I've been doing.
If you're Town, you don't do what you did. You just don't. You give intent to hammer, you wait for others to weigh in, and then you follow through. I accept that if you're Town it was a mistake. Fine, mistakes happen. But if it was a mistake then you ended the Day when you didn't mean to, ie prematurely. So you can't argue both that it was a mistake and that you didn't hammer prematurely. Because really, you swooped in from nowhere, having barely mentioned Robz previously, and "parked" your hammer vote, and are now claiming Towncred for it. That's actually one of the scummiest things I've seen yet. So Vote: spiritbears and if you're Town you've done the rest of us a major disservice.

Wow. Super defensive, and really just absurd.  You seem very upset that that robz was lynched. This is honestly the first I've ever seen killing a scum as a "disservice" to town. Scumslip.

Oh please. You don't get any credit for lynching Robz. You didn't help it at all, you just cut the Day short. The Robz lynch was obviously happening anyway, whether you jumped on or not, and you clearly thought, and still think that it should gain you Towncred. And Towncred is everything that scum wants. If you're Town, the disservice you've done is by hammering prematurely and acting scummy about it. If we mislynch you because you can't follow basic Town protocol, then that's a disservice to Town. But I don't think it matters, since you're not Town.

[EFHW]

I think if Robz and spirit had set up the hammer, spirit would have been townier and more deliberate and obvious about it, responsibly announcing intent, asking for last words, etc.  Derphammering defeats the towncred goal. 

BUT he seems very attentive to people wanting to get on and off the wagon, and may have jumped on in fear of being left off it and got FOS for that.

[EFHW]

Spirit's emotional reaction also seems scummy.  We know he speaks his mind in general, so it's not damning, but definitely something I'm noticing.

[Jimmmmm]

BUT he seems very attentive to people wanting to get on and off the wagon, and may have jumped on in fear of being left off it and got FOS for that.

That's what set off alarm bells for me. His very first post today was to look at who was on the wagon and who was off. It just seems very planned, like the whole reason he was on the wagon was so that he could do this wagon analysis.

[Jimmmmm]

Okay, this is what I was thinking about the Robz/shraeye thing. They were going at each other a fair bit. The natural response to that is to think that they can't both be scum. But then as I said some of what shraeye was saying was reminding me of yuma bussing Glooble in DS9:

I don't get what you're saying at all but what Im saying is not complicated and if you don't understand it that's weird.

I am saying that you seem to be irked that I am willing to give mail-mi a complete pass for his tech-free tuesday.  That is my interpretation of your sarcastic "plan for next scumgame" response.

Eevee also implied that mail-mi wasn't scum for his situation.  You have directly called eevee scummy for his stance.

Suppose for a moment that you're spot-on about Eevee.  Is mail-mi his partner?  Only if you think this is true, should you be upset at giving mail-mi a pass.  After all, if mail-mi is town, then whether it was reasonable or not, anything that gets us to not consider him helps town win.  And as you said, all one should care about is winning. (and feelings)

So it seems to me like your arguments are only cohesive when Eevee/mailmi is the scumteam.  Yet you haven't said that.


Also,
vote: Robz

I'm still feeling great with my vote on Robz.

Mail-mi has a pass for now

EFHW is a solid townread
eevee is townish, I don't find his "This is a sad world that I get suspected for giving mailmi a pass" to be a scummy bit.
mcmcsalot is sitting neutral, I keep searching deep to see which way I lean on him and I'm uncertain
yuma i'm leaning slight scum, no clear idea why.
spiritbears has hit my list for people to be wary of.  He is a scumread
jimmmm I'd love to hear a bit more from him, my read is unformed so far (which is different than the neutral read on mcmcsalot)

That's pretty much where I sit right now.

I want to revote Robz, and encourage people to join me.

He has nothing of substance since I've explained how his statements had me confused and voted him. (except to say he wants eevee lynched, and that mailmi/jimmm's post counts are inflated) Robz, the originator of the "if you are under heat, disappear and so will suspicion" tactic.

Vote: Robz

I'd like people to take a stance on Robz, if they're around and have time to set out a few reads, actually.

I too think Robz has been very "arms swinging" as you put it, but I'm not sure if that aggressiveness has actually been channeled into "aggressive scumhunting".  That's my take.

I'm not.  I'm worried about no lynch.

So in a blitz game, a lynch will always happen.  Right now mcmcsalot is on the line because he's got the most votes.

I'd still love to see Robz get that spot instead.  I'm still suspicious of spiritbears as well.  yuma always makes me uneasy, but i definitely prefer the mcmcsalot lynch over a sudden switch to him, as I have no evidence backing up that unease.

A lot of this seems to be just reminding everyone that shraeye is voting for and wants to lynch Robz. And while I'm not sure that's scummy in itself, it's pretty much what yuma was doing in DS9. So I started to wonder if this whole thing was a plan.

But then I read some of the later interactions:

I'm inclined to believe Mai's claim. Not sure I'm on the robz wagon...someone care to sell me the case?

his insane aggressiveness towards eevee, presumably because eevee was mail-mi's scum partner covering for mailmi's "ridiculous" VLA claim.  But then I also agreed with it, and attracted less suspicion for it.  Once eevee died, Robz switched to the exact same case on me, that I was being "textbook scum" in my interactions with mailmi, and that it was silly for everyone to not see it.  Except that literally is the exact same case that had recently failed to turn up scum with regard to eevee.

Then mail-mi comes online and claims fool, which is obviously true.  I was really interested to see Robz's followup to this, since his entire case on me rests on me defending mail-mi for VLA, and covering for my "partner".  Robz has not reassessed his reads on me, nor shown any change since the mail-mi claim.

When I asked him about this, his only response is to say that "of course he believes mail-mi's claim".  But that's not the interesting part, I'm curious about how his reads are now evolving in light of new evidence.  And apparently the amount that they are evolving is 'not at all'.

This is completely unhelpful as town, but reasonable as scum.  He gets put in a difficult situation when mail-mi makes the PR claim, and his response is not to work on better scumhunting in light of evidence, it's just to clam up and say nothing.

I'm just sick of you getting away with your scummy behavior, it sickens me.

I'm just sick of you getting away with your scummy behavior, it sickens me.

you literally have never given any reason why i might be scum that didn't hinge on mail-mi being my partner.

Again, I'm still waiting for mcmc to take me up on my offer. I'm convinced enough that you are scum, if he shoots you and you're not scum, we can lynch me.

I'm just sick of you getting away with your scummy behavior, it sickens me.

you literally have never given any reason why i might be scum that didn't hinge on mail-mi being my partner.

LIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES

Oh that's such a ridiculous lie.

Oh that's such a ridiculous lie.

How about prove this statement, instead of just capslock-yelling?

Yours and Eevee's defense of mail-mi was scummy, independent of mail-mi being scum. What mail-mi did was bad and wrong and it was right to suspect me, and you and Eevee both had this totally ridiculous reaction to it, you even propogated the wholly insane "free pass" nonsense. I pegged you--correctly--as a scum trying to make a friend in mail-mi (if mail-mi wasn't your scumpartner). And I was right.

Whatever, but when this game is over, don't you dare for one second gloat that you fooled everyone.

Shraeye is a liar.

etc.

This seemed much more like a genuine fight to me, but I still wasn't ready to rule out it all being part of their plan. So I wanted to see what others thought about this, and I didn't want to give away my whole thought process before hearing what others had to say. So my question to the ICs and other Townies was basically, "Could these two have planned this, or do you think one of them being scum will mean that the other must be Town?"

[Jimmmmm]

Anyway, I'm going to bed. I've been lynched in my sleep in a Blitz game before, and I'd rather it didn't happen again. But if it does, whoever's left over, do me a favour and lynch spiritbears tomorrow?

Also, FYI I'll probably be in and out a fair bit tomorrow, so I'll help as much as I can. But I will end up being home and free around 2 hours before deadline.

[spiritbears]

I don't see anything in what you just posted that casts any suspicion on shyrae. He rode robz hard.  And was right to do so.  His case on robz is what helped me cone around to a robz lynch and his case against eevee kept me from switching to an eevee vote when I saved Mc. 
Shy is town. No dout.
And it makes perfect sense for jimm to want to lynch me and ignore what Mc wanted us to do after robz....fund the other scum, which I now have no doubts about that being jimm. Im so sure, you can lunch me and when I flip town immediately get rid of him. (2-1).
I'll even self hammer

[Jimmmmm]

Read what I actually wrote. I wasn't trying to cast suspicion on shraeye, I was trying to nut out whether it was possible that they could both be scum.

As for what mcmc wanted to do, here are his last 3 posts:

Pretty sure a derphammer, I mean it's not like it matter both your Ic's wanted to vote for him. This is sorta how this setup goes d1 town has to be super active and interact like crazy, d2 the town is small and you have 2 Ic's that sorta pick the lynches and then we go. So after robz flips I think if he flips town we hit shraeye, if he flips scum we lynch efhw, and then lynch the other.

If Robz is Town then spiritbears had better be scum.

No way, I'm not believing robz is town and shraeye/spirit is the scum team. They deserve to win then for being the only players on at deadline other than me.

I will believe shraeye/efhw or robz/shraeye. That is it.

Deep! Sorry I had no idea it was that close!

It's okay, deadline is in an hour anyway and we've already stated who were lynching, now we hope were right.

@shraeye, robz/Jimm is equally likely as shraeye/Jimm and efhw/Jimm. This is why I am not lynching him, blitz goes quick and he hasn't looked scummy. You three interacted enough that scum's gotta be there for us to win. Oh and Jimm, if robz flips town. Shraeye is probably scum and efhw his partner because looking at how yesterday went down he said he wouldn't vote for eevee but at the last second he didn't vote efhw, no he voted eevee. Which was strange. So it's very likely shraeye/efhw is the scum team.

This is why I want to solidify robz/efhw/shraeye as our lynches, it has the best combo's of potential teams.

(bolding mine)

So mcmc now wants us to lynch either shraeye or EFHW today, and if we mislynch the other tomorrow. If I was scum, how would it possibly benefit me to stray from that? Did you even look at what mcmc wanted to do before you posted that?

[EFHW]

I am really torn between Jimmmmm and Spiritbears.  I believe the fight between Shraeye and Robz was genuine.  I think it was towny of Jimmmmm to analyze it.  I think Spirit doesn't get that much credit for day one - he got Eevee lynched instead of mcmc.  With mcmc claiming fool, that's the best scum could hope for anyway.  I'm going to check the vote count and get back with my vote in a minute.

[EFHW]

Right now, we have Jimmmmm and Spirit voting for each other. 

I vote: Spiritbears, putting him at L-1.

[EFHW]

THREAD LOCKED

We get to talk all day tomorow about who I shoot right now we need to keep me alive so i can do it

I already kept you alive wen I unvoted

Does it bother anyone else that Spiritbears posted after the thread was locked?