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[yuma]

and it appears that Jimmm had similar feelings toward mcmc as I do. Jimmm who do you think is scummier... Eevee or mcmc?

this is it.

[Jimmmmm]

Thanks, found it. At that point in time I was coming down from my Eevee case and my response to mcmc was more just about being called ridiculous than thinking he was scummy.

At this stage Eevee is off my radar because I don't think he will be or should be lynched today, and my case on him is not nearly as strong as I thought it was. I'd like mcmc to answer my question before I say anything more about him.

[TheMunch]

Ok guys, you ready?!?!  Slowpoke over here is going to vote: Eevee!  There was a lot going on with Eevee early in the game and a bunch of people expressed a similar feeling as me (I remember what my biggest read the first time through was!) that Eevee just really feels off/different/whatever you want to call it.  The hardest part about my read on Eevee under closer examination is that I am having a really hard time putting my finger specifically what is bothering me about Eevee's play this time around.

Yeah there was the whole dsell calling eevee out for saying town instead of station aligned early on but what was really offputting to me about it was the way that Eevee handled it.  In the same post that Eevee acknowledges being called out he corrects the mistake.  Ok not a huge deal but then there is the pushing a Galz scum read for no reason.  Then there has just been the general way he has been responding to pressure.  Then there was a post later when he comments on a post by liopoil that feels buddying in a minipulative kind of way.  It seemed like I wasn't the only one that got an offputting impression from Eevee and then that all dissipated for what I can see as no real reason.

I will post my other reads (next is Ashersky, that ones going to be fun) in my next post but I really think we should talk about Eevee a bunch more.

[Jimmmmm]

Oh I'm sick of talking about Eevee. But I will gladly listen to any compelling case you have on him.

[TheMunch]

Ok.  Ashersky.  I really find noticing that Ashersky just feels wrong to me.  Like I just disagree with him on theory.  In previous games I've acknowledged the "ashersky always comes off as scummy so I'm wary of lynching him for it."  I really just want him to improve as a player and not worry about "well I'm not coming off as scummy which is different so I'm going to get lynched for it."  Amongst all interactions I really think Ashersky is being Ashersky and get a town read from him.  That being said, I would be interested to see what happens if I didn't read a whole mafia game thread and then just did the opposite of whatever Ashersky suggests...

TLDR: Ashersky is town.  I disagree with approx 99% of what he's said...

[TheMunch]

Oh I'm sick of talking about Eevee. But I will gladly listen to any compelling case you have on him.

Thats just it.  I really dont have a compelling case on him.  Just every bone in my body says this is not town!eevee.  I could go write up something more formal specifically revolved around making some huge day 1 case on Eevee but I dont think I'm actually super comfortable with that.  I do think there are enough people that interacted in interesting ways with Eevee that it would be helpful to know his alignment.  That said he is my biggest scum read out of these pages so that helps.

[Eevee]

The joy of multiple scum teams: I have little doubt in my mind Munch actually thinks I'm scum. His case on me is entirely based on his feelings, which I trust to be genuine. Well, all I can do is hope others read me better.

[Jimmmmm]

There are three people whose lynches I will almost definitely not be supporting today: Galz, Dsell and Eevee. Galz because he's Galz and he's busy. Dsell because he's probably Town and we need more evidence on him than we can probably get today. Eevee's probably from more of an emotional standpoint. I had this big case on him, and it kind of died, and I kind of just want to move on.

[TheMunch]

Ok Everyone else.  If I dont list you, its cause I dont think you have said enough or contributed things that have meaningfully impacted my reads on you... so shame on you all...

Glooble I'll give a hesitant town read if only because of his inactivity but everything that hes said gives me town vibes.

Dsell: Dare I say obvtown?  I dont.  But hes pretty high up on my town reads.  I dont want to say its cause of his station comment early on... but ya know...

Robz: I think I just convinced myself that Robz is town just cause I've actually been agreeing with a lot of what hes been saying.  I am cautious but town read for now.

Jimm: I'll give him credit for his dont lynch till I claim posture.

Theorel:  The only one that I actually found to discuss theory to an extent.  Other than that, no read.  (Hey, Ash, why did you push the "Raerae is iioa" instead of the much more obvious "theorel is iioa"... although I dont think iioa is necessarily indicitivly a scumtell)

Raerae: is raerae.  She reminds me a LOT of Me vs Ehalcyon in XI... Maybe that means shes SK...

Sparky: Totally scummy in his only post in 216.  Oh wait.  Thats me.  Nevermind.

I should probably have a read on Galz... In hindsight he did say a bunch, but I "dont have any notes."  Maybe this is intentional, who knows.

[shraeye]

I think I mentioned this before, but here it is again: I'm using a somewhat new approach to this game, which I am calling the Straightforward Strategy, or SFS (see what I did there?). My approach to this game, rather than going so strongly off of metas, is to look at two things: 1) Real evidence, and 2) What people are saying.

I fully support this, Robz.  I wish you success!

[raerae]

There are three people whose lynches I will almost definitely not be supporting today: Galz, Dsell and Eevee. Galz because he's Galz and he's busy. Dsell because he's probably Town and we need more evidence on him than we can probably get today. Eevee's probably from more of an emotional standpoint. I had this big case on him, and it kind of died, and I kind of just want to move on.

I'm in your corner with Eevee.  Not voting for him unless he does something awful.  Working on rereads now because I was dumb and didn't take notes while I was reading before.  Have only gotten through ashersky (town) and partially through a few others.  I have initial thoughts, solely based on feelings while reading (which I hate!) so I won't be posting real read thoughts until I actually have them.

As for ashersky, I feel like he's just lynch-hungry so his cases and early sheeping feel like just trying to push the game into day two.  In my head, scum would want to draw this out and just create more confusion for town to sort through. 

[shraeye]

man this game is just swarming with twin claims!

shraeye, thanks for your explanation about your new strategy.

I guess I like it as town, because it helps you scum hunt. But I am not liking it as much if you are scum, because it allows you to coast without offering any real insights up for analysis--especially analysis later in the game when we can go back and compare your reads to your actions and to your reads later in the game.

So I guess what I am saying is that if that is how you are going to play, I am going to hope you are town, but don't be surprised if you get read scummy by others for playing such.

I'll be sure to offer my analysis before the end of the day; I'm sort of saving it up.

[shraeye]

And yes, I also found it odd that Jimmm didn't respond to my question about who is scummier, you or eevee.... Jimmm did you see that question? Why didn't you answer it?

Jimmmmm, I saw your answer to this question and am interested for this to play out.

Thanks, found it. At that point in time I was coming down from my Eevee case and my response to mcmc was more just about being called ridiculous than thinking he was scummy.

At this stage Eevee is off my radar because I don't think he will be or should be lynched today, and my case on him is not nearly as strong as I thought it was. I'd like mcmc to answer my question before I say anything more about him.

@mcmcsalot please answer this question ASAP

Question for mom salon: who is your biggest scumread at the moment, and why? If the answer is me (and even otherwise if you can), who's your second and why?

I would additionally like you to state your full opinion on Jimmmm regardless if he is your biggest scumread or not.

[shraeye]

There are three people whose lynches I will almost definitely not be supporting today: Galz, Dsell and Eevee. Galz because he's Galz and he's busy. Dsell because he's probably Town and we need more evidence on him than we can probably get today. Eevee's probably from more of an emotional standpoint. I had this big case on him, and it kind of died, and I kind of just want to move on.

At the same time, Jimmmmm, please explain why you say we need more evidence before you would be ok with lynching Dsell (I understand the connotation on this question is weird, but promise this statement is made without reflection to my opinion of Dsell).  Is it because he's probably town?  I feel like there's a different reason, but please explain in a little more depth regardless of the answer.

[Jimmmmm]

Just because he hasn't said much yet, but I don't think that outweighs the Town points he has. I just feel like before we get any extra information from flips, Dsell's part in this game will be defined by his first post.

[shraeye]

Thanks liopoil, this is very helpful.  I agree with some of your reads but disagree with others (some a bit, some strongly), but the explanations that come along with them are great.  If you're town (and actually more so if you are scum), this is a good post for the game of mafia.  Please continue playing games, as I like the way you've presented yourself thus far.

[yuma]

so this game (or rather how we are playing this game) has been kinda weird... in that apparently it gets quiet during the week as opposed to the weekend. and the lack of wagons, even mini-wagons. There was the eevee one, yes, but nothing else to speak of.

I guess that is why I feel like everyone is here in this game, but not "involved" and therefore a bit hard to read.

Is looking at the 4 (well 3 since Cuzz's vote was an RVS thing) people on the mini-eevee wagon worth anything? That was ash, robz and jimmm (well that is interesting that those are the three that lio has scum reads on, I hadn't made that connection before.)

I don't know. Maybe it is just because this game is only 3 days old, but already 16 pages long. Although there has only been 15 votes (including RVS votes) all game. Yeah, that I think is weird. I haven't ever done a vote:post count before, but I think this game has been low on votes. Do people agree? Why is it so? And is it good or bad? I think it is bad personally, votes move town, get scum to be squirmy, and causes people to form opinions and vocalize them allowing town to gain valuable information.

So I am going to encourage more votes. I mean, don't just vote because I say so or if you don't have reads, but if you have a read and you feel relatively good about it, put it down!

I am probably off for tonight. Going to watch Downton Abbey with the wife and study hematology. Hope to see some votes when I check back in tomorrow.

[Cuzz]

There are three people whose lynches I will almost definitely not be supporting today: Galz, Dsell and Eevee. Galz because he's Galz and he's busy. Dsell because he's probably Town and we need more evidence on him than we can probably get today. Eevee's probably from more of an emotional standpoint. I had this big case on him, and it kind of died, and I kind of just want to move on.

I'm in your corner with Eevee.  Not voting for him unless he does something awful.

I don't care for this absolving Eevee of all suspicion thing. Disagreeing with the earlier cases on him is one thing, but I really can't see how that translates into making him lynchproof D1. (I realize I'm exaggerating your positions a bit but hopefully people get my point)

[Eevee]

I 100% agree with yuma. Imagine rereading this day? Whole lot of pages, very little positions / voting.

Vote: Cuzz
I encourage everyone to pin their vote on their biggest scum read. You can switch it to someone else when you get a stronger read!

[liopoil]

I see your reasoning for voting more, and I agree with it. Vote: Robz888

[Jimmmmm]

There are three people whose lynches I will almost definitely not be supporting today: Galz, Dsell and Eevee. Galz because he's Galz and he's busy. Dsell because he's probably Town and we need more evidence on him than we can probably get today. Eevee's probably from more of an emotional standpoint. I had this big case on him, and it kind of died, and I kind of just want to move on.

I'm in your corner with Eevee.  Not voting for him unless he does something awful.

I don't care for this absolving Eevee of all suspicion thing. Disagreeing with the earlier cases on him is one thing, but I really can't see how that translates into making him lynchproof D1. (I realize I'm exaggerating your positions a bit but hopefully people get my point)

Oh I'm sick of talking about Eevee. But I will gladly listen to any compelling case you have on him.

Be my guest.

[Dsell]

I will definitely be giving reads today, I realize that there is a big target on my back. But I confess to not having many strong reads right now. Especially scum reads.

Town reads on Robz, Jimmmmmm

I guess slightly scummy on Eevee and TheMunch but those are very very weak reads.

I will go back and figure things out, school just started, life is busier and I have to settle into a routine. I will get around to things though.

[mcmcsalot]

My biggest scum read so far would be the person I'm currently voting for, as this is the only person I feel comfortable voting for.

Ashersky: I noticed you said you had a big scum read on eevee before jimm ever made his case. Then you confirmed by voting just after jimm's argument was made. Many people said you were posting scum reads on people while providing no evidence, I tend to agree and was looking for where you remedied this and it is nowhere to be found. Next your bickering with raerae which seemed very scummy on both your parts though what peeked my interest was jimm's dismissal of the argument explaining it wasn't pro town. While I agree this is not a pro town argument, if you in fact are scum, this is also not a very pro scum argument. You your self pointed out a time in which you coached raerae, although I don't think you did, I DO think jimm coached you. Much later, you've come back to attacking raerae but with a better case, this is either still scum!ash trying to force a mislynch on raerae, or town!ash still thinking raerae is scum and wants to make his case. I'm not going to comment on the name calling argument because I believe this was an emotional argument and could have come from town or scum.

I'm gonna leave this with  a Vote: Ashersky I get a good feel like hes scum and still wary about Jimm because of his interaction.

As for my second biggest scum read it is you Jimm, although I agree I was harsh in stating you "tricked" people, I was previously building many reads based of what you said and was shocked when the eevee case didn't really come together as you made it and my support for it fell off, not because others stopped supporting it but because others pointed out flaws in it. It was poor on my part to build reads off of other people's reads because I can't be sure anyone else is town. This is why I have begun forming much stronger opinions on my own by going back and reading each post a person has made in succession.

[Jimmmmm]

Whoa okay let's no default back to RVSing because yuma said we need to vote more. I think I'll hold on to my vote for the time being.

lio, why Robz? You accused him of being over-accusatory, getting on the lurkers' cases and talking a lot about the setup. You may not know this because you haven't played much, but all of those things are what Robz does, so I don't think there's a lot to the argument. Has he said anything in particular that you thought was scummy?

Eevee your voting for Cuzz seems strange. You seemed to sheep what I didn't think was that strong an argument by Galz, and later you said you had a noread on Cuzz, and that you buy his reasons for being silent. What about Cuzz makes you think he's scummy?

[Cuzz]

There are three people whose lynches I will almost definitely not be supporting today: Galz, Dsell and Eevee. Galz because he's Galz and he's busy. Dsell because he's probably Town and we need more evidence on him than we can probably get today. Eevee's probably from more of an emotional standpoint. I had this big case on him, and it kind of died, and I kind of just want to move on.

I'm in your corner with Eevee.  Not voting for him unless he does something awful.

I don't care for this absolving Eevee of all suspicion thing. Disagreeing with the earlier cases on him is one thing, but I really can't see how that translates into making him lynchproof D1. (I realize I'm exaggerating your positions a bit but hopefully people get my point)

Oh I'm sick of talking about Eevee. But I will gladly listen to any compelling case you have on him.

Be my guest.

I don't have a compelling case. But your complete 180 on Eevee is weird. You went from having a case against him, to saying "maybe this case is not so good," to suddenly saying you will almost definitely not support his lynch today. To me that kind of attitude should be reserved for someone you have a strong townread on, and I'm not sure where that comes from.