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[shraeye]

Hey look, while catching up, I found that Eevee meant what I thought he meant with the Dsell thing. 

Eevee, you're not my biggest scumread!

Guys, don't lynch Eevee today!

So...who is?

I'm keeping that a secret.  I've found I prefer to let things develop a bit before opining publicly, as it helps prevent confirmation bias as new information comes out.

hmmm... I don't know how I feel about this. Mostly because if you are town then I want your knowledge so I can compare it to mine as I think you are a pretty solid scum hunter, but then again like you said, that would result in some confirmation bias... I guess I am ok with it... You say you have found this out? Where have you used this technique before?

I feel like the first time I used it was unintentionally in blitz4, but I didn't really put it to full effect.  I also was able to use it in Buffy when I subbed in maybe 7 or so days after the start.  So I was able to read up on 7 days of material and put all my comments/reads at the end.  It really helped me zero in on scum in that game.

[shraeye]

Mom salon is sounding towny here.  Generally speaking, "I did that as scum before" arguments is second-level scum play.  No offense mom salon, but probably not pulling it unless you're veteran scum partners coached.

I disagree with your third sentence here.  I was just scum with mcmcsalot (I'd like to think that my record as scum proves I'm good at playing scum) and I was very impressed by him.  I think I saw maybe 1 or 2 slight newbie mistakes; I think he could pull off this 'second-level scum play' you're talking about.

[raerae]

Ok, seriously cool the name-calling or I will pull this mafia game over. Golden rule is in effect. You're all better than this.

/modscold

OK, OK, OK, I walked away, cooled my heels, did some marketing stuffs and am ready to actually play some mafia.  Sorry for that multi-post explosion, guys.

[ashersky]

Mom salon is sounding towny here.  Generally speaking, "I did that as scum before" arguments is second-level scum play.  No offense mom salon, but probably not pulling it unless you're veteran scum partners coached.

I disagree with your third sentence here.  I was just scum with mcmcsalot (I'd like to think that my record as scum proves I'm good at playing scum) and I was very impressed by him.  I think I saw maybe 1 or 2 slight newbie mistakes; I think he could pull off this 'second-level scum play' you're talking about.

Shraeye, I definitely think you are very, very good at playing scum, so I do accept your opinion on this.  Mom salon, you're now back at a null read.

[Jimmmmm]

Okay so now that I'm taking my focus off Eevee (for now anyway), I should look at some other people.

First, the easiest, sparky.

So sparky here could be an easy target for LaLL, with his measly two posts. I believe sparky kind of has a history of lurking, but two posts out of over 300 looks pretty bad. In his first post he says a couple of things, gives a couple of opinions, but like he says, he "doesn't add a whole lot". In his second, and latest post, he promises to be more involved. And then nothing. Granted, it hasn't been THAT long since then, it was ~14 hours and 90 posts ago, but a lot has happened since then and overall, and some contribution would be nice. I'll be looking for some genuine scum-hunting from sparky to make up for his non-involvement so far.

[Jimmmmm]

Next, Dsell. Now Dsell gets some Town points for his first post. I don't think anyone's calling him obvTown, but if he's scum it was a clever post, and quite cleverly worded I think. But let's give him a pinch of Town cred and move on. He hasn't contributed terribly much to the game (other than, you know, being the catalyst for much of the conversation so far), with a total of 10 posts. The next three after his first one were fairly pointless posts about the setup and what information scum have etc. Not much to say from that, I think. His next two posts were about other games, so irrelevant. So all up he has a total of 4 posts about this actual game (not counting his first one).

First he says that Eevee doesn't seem like Town Eevee, but doesn't say why he thinks that. Based on his reactions to cases on him, he implies, but nothing more specific than that. He's not convinced by the contradiction case, Town Eevee could have been accidentally digging himself into a hole. Then he says my case is a Towny case, even if it's wrong, he doesn't trust ash, and it's not a blitz game so running off for IRL reasons is not scummy. So a couple of thoughts, but nothing particularly new or that helpful.

I think if Dsell hadn't scored Town points for his first post, people may well be suspecting him for his lack of contribution. But, I haven't picked up on anything scummy from him yet, so still on the Town side for his first post, I think, but I'd like more of a contribution from him as well.

[yuma]

I remember the MXV issue.  I apologized for that before, and do now again.  I honestly didn't mean to paint you that way in that game, but I know you felt I did, and it went that way.  I think you can understand the frustration at not being believed when sincere, or even worse, when you think scum is using it against you.  So we both know what that's like.

We're not the only ones that come across jerky.  I don't think you do that much, actually.  Me, sure.

Scum will use whatever they can to win, I guess.  I recall scum!shraeye faking not knowing the game started in one of the blitzes to good use.

I think in this game, you and me are town vs. town.

yes, no need to apologize again let bygones be ... (what is a bygone anyways?) As for this while I disagree with your case on raerae (at least most of it) it had no bearing on my read on you. This could very well be town v town,

In regard to comparing this situation against that of Galz-Eevee; 1 I didn't notice it before, so I didn't comment on it, but 2. even if I had I believe them to be very different in that when Eevee wrote:

Then you make some jokey posts that don't really do anything (you said this yourself). Then you announce you've got to go and will only be phone-posting. Now, townGalz is known for being present and active, and I would assume scumGalz would want to try to replicate that. However, you announcing that felt a little forced to me given there was no active discussion going (and short jokey posts you could also do from your phone quite conveniently if you so desired). I know I want to announce the reasons for my legit periods of no access when I'm scum, so I can for example use the time I can "lurk" without seeming suspicious on actual situations I WANT to lurk in.

he explains it, he goes into what he found was scummy, the joke and a forced announcement of leaving and while I disagree with eevee's interpretation of it, it much more different that ash's "classic scummy maneuver" which is vague and leaves a lot up to interpretation. For instance I interpreted "scummy" to him as being that raerae was going to a party and getting drunk and didn't want to respond until she was sober. One was saying a post was scummy, I interpreted the other as saying RL events were scummy.

[Robz888]

Okay, just caught up.

I think I mentioned this before, but here it is again: I'm using a somewhat new approach to this game, which I am calling the Straightforward Strategy, or SFS (see what I did there?). My approach to this game, rather than going so strongly off of metas, is to look at two things: 1) Real evidence, and 2) What people are saying.

1) Real evidence -- Something like, Dsell's station-aligned thing with Eevee. I actually think Dsell gets more than a pinch of town cred here. I agree with Jimm that other than that, Dsell would actually seem pretty scummy for underposting, but this evidence is really, really acquitting, I think.

2) What people are saying -- if someone says something that is logical, that makes sense, that I think hits upon valid points and is relevant, I am going to think of that person as less scummy. This is a little bit of a change of pace for me. Usually, when someone says something anti-rational, irrelevant, and over the top, I think of them as less scummy, because scum need to be more careful. But this approach has not worked lately.

Here are some noteworthy recent comments:

I'm not sure whether I buy into ash's case on you, but "She's acting like Town raerae so clearly she's scum" isn't it. I think what he meant by that was that just because you're acting like Town raerae doesn't necessarily make you Town. His actual case had more to it than that.

Personally I'm finding you particularly hard to read because so far you've always come across pretty much the same to me, that is no-nonsense, won't take crap from anyone, not afraid to be a bit condescending, and generally more reactive to what people say than trying to build cases. And you've been Town twice, and mislynched the only time you were lynchable. I think your playstyle might generally go against you when you're Town (especially while you're still relatively new) because you're probably more likely than average to be mislynched, but it might help you when you're scum because you can do the same things and people might just say "Oh that's just raerae."

This is the definitive opinion on raerae. And it actually resonates with me, because I've found that the particular playstyle I was using in, let's see, M-X and M-XIV in particular, made me an early lynch target as town. I was town, but I was more abrasive at that point in time, and it really came back to get me. And I kept thinking, "Can't they see, this is consistent with town!Robz?" And perhaps they should have, but it wasn't entirely their fault of course.

So, I was just about to make the case that shraeye has been defending raerae on the grounds that raerae is just like this, she's being herself. And this is what shraeye did as scum in the previous blitz game. But I just looked back to find evidence of shraeye doing this, and I actually can't, at all. So I don't know what it means that in my head I picture shraeye defending raerae all over the place, but I can't actually find it in the thread. Did I hallucinate this? I'm wondering if this mental bleed-through from the discussion in another thread about hosting a newbie game.

I was going to vote shraeye over this, but, as I said, I have zero evidence this happened. As far as I can tell now, it didn't.

I still think ashersky had a point, even if he wasn't entirely right, and he's just not reading scum to me.

My biggest townreads right now are Jimm and theorel. I do find myself nodding in agreement with what theorel is saying.

Galzria is registering a lot less than usual in this game, to me, and I do find that weird. And it irks me that his main goal so far seems to be to kill the wagon on Eevee, which I thought was certainly a valid wagon on the scummiest person. Perhaps Eevee would have been/will be a mislynch, but it reeks of scum trying to build towncred by killing wagon on townie. Of course I guess with the multiple scumteams thing, there's like an extra wrinkle in there. Still, since I think the Eevee case was solid-ish, I don't love that Galz worked to kill it.

I'm going to Vote: Cuzz, though, because he's now the person to whom I can't attribute anything. It's really hard to beat Glooble in that regard, and Cuzz is doing it. So.

[Cuzz]

As I said before, this game started on a Friday night, and so all the activity so far has been over a weekend. I've been vaguely following along, but mostly skimming and don't have any strong opinions yet. I'll catch up in full tomorrow, but I'm sometimes a bit Friskian in my weekend activity.

[mcmcsalot]

Okay going to simply go through and see what I can get down about each person, a few other people are doing it and it seems to be very helpful.

Ashersky: I noticed you said you had a big scum read on eevee before jimm ever made his case. Then you confirmed by voting just after jimm's argument was made. Many people said you were posting scum reads on people while providing no evidence, I tend to agree and was looking for where you remedied this and it is nowhere to be found. Next your bickering with raerae which seemed very scummy on both your parts though what peeked my interest was jimm's dismissal of the argument explaining it wasn't pro town. While I agree this is not a pro town argument, if you in fact are scum, this is also not a very pro scum argument. You your self pointed out a time in which you coached raerae, although I don't think you did, I DO think jimm coached you. Much later, you've come back to attacking raerae but with a better case, this is either still scum!ash trying to force a mislynch on raerae, or town!ash still thinking raerae is scum and wants to make his case. I'm not going to comment on the name calling argument because I believe this was an emotional argument and could have come from town or scum.

Okay I plan to finish this but it takes a loong time as I'm actually using the all page function and ctr/find'ing all the post by that player. I have to go do some things for school, it's my second day back so I won't be available till later in the day for the rest of the week.

I'm gonna leave this with  a Vote: Ashersky I get a good feel like hes scum and still wary about Jimm because of his interaction.

[Eevee]

Robz, I would argue in multiple scum team situations scum has a lot less incentive to buddy up to non-teammates and defend them strongly from getting lynched. Pretty catastrophic if they end up flipping scum of the other theam!

Dsell
Robz put it well - very scummy if it wasn't for the fact the incident actually earns him a ton of town credit. Also, if he scared enough to fake the question at scum, he'd surely care enough to post more and appear less obvscummy. So yes, strongest town read, easily.

Robz
Says a lot of stuff I agree with, maybe even more than usual. Don't know if that's a towntell or scumtell on meta level (I think town, but not sure), I still think plays very protown and is not a likely place for my vote today.

Galzria
Nah, slight scumread. Like, better than to hit scum than in a random lynch, but not the best place to drop down my vote.

theorel
Don''t get a major townread from his theory stuff, but no scum read either. He is playing like I'd expect scumtheorel to play, but that is pretty much how I'd expect towntheorel to play too.

Jimm
I've talked about Jimm already. His case on me was really trying from early on, and I think he really believed in it. But well, scum has even more incentive to scumhunt than town here. So.. Either way, again not a good lynch target, he is definitely an asset for town.

ashersky
Frustration is usually a town trait. No read still, and it is helpfur for town that he is taking strong positions - identifying the alignment of players like this later is easier than trying to read a lurker.

Cuzz
Noread, but I buy his reasons for being this silent.

Sparky
Has the tendency to lurk like this, but.. Worth noting, we've never seen town sparky! It's very possible he'd post shorter posts more often.

Glooble
Has a low post count but has made sense to me when he has posted.

I know there are other people, but got tired midway!

[Robz888]

One small correction, Eevee. Sparky was town in M-XI. Well, he replaced into M-XI, taking Voltgloss's town slot. But you were dead I think already.

[yuma]

One small correction, Eevee. Sparky was town in M-XI. Well, he replaced into M-XI, taking Voltgloss's town slot. But you were dead I think already.

and was pretty active--100 posts for the whole game was pretty middle of the pack--given that he subbed in late and was killed night 6 out of 12. But then again, that game was so crazy it is hard to use as a frame of reference. It is worth noting that he has been pretty much absent from the other ongoing game MXVIII--but as it is ongoing that is all I will say about that.

[sparky5856]

Request Replacement - This game is ridiculous.

[jotheonah]

Luckily I have a replacement on standby.

[Robz888]

Request Replacement - This game is ridiculous.

Ridiculous in what way? I think it's pretty run-of-the-mill. I mean, in an exciting way, but nothing like insane happened.

[TheMunch]

Oh hey guys!!!

[raerae]

Lynch the new guy.

[Eevee]

Looks like we have our universal backup in here!

[mcmcsalot]

Robz: Throughout the whole eevee thing robz took the lets wait for him to post and see if we can catch him approach. This is the exact thing he did in ZMIX , as an IC he offered very little of his own thoughts because he thought that would make it easy for scum to buddy. The plan obviously didn't work as is allowed mafia to run the discussion. So overall I think this is an anti ton strategy but that could come from robz being a sub par town player(said by him). His analysis on the cops seemed towny. Next comes more asking for other peoples analysis, and asking lurkers to post, neither town or scum read off this as it helps either one. Long time goes by and he mentions the fact that jimm and eevee could both be scum which is a definite possibility  although i'm inclined to thing eevee is town.

Have to go to dinner now will finish up thoughts on robz sometime soonish? and probably wont get to the next person for awhile.

[TheMunch]

Looks like we have our universal backup in here!

JOKES~!

[TheMunch]

In all seriousness though, I have discussed no roles with Shraeye-Rae, and I have been following the game to the best of my ability.  To be fair though I dont remember Sparky being that loud?  Maybe someone will correct me but its early enough, I will be and have been forming my own reads.

[Cuzz]

...but that could come from robz being a sub par town player...

Kid catches on quick!

[jotheonah]

TheMunch has replaced Sparky.

[Robz888]

Robz: Throughout the whole eevee thing robz took the lets wait for him to post and see if we can catch him approach. This is the exact thing he did in ZMIX , as an IC he offered very little of his own thoughts because he thought that would make it easy for scum to buddy. The plan obviously didn't work as is allowed mafia to run the discussion. So overall I think this is an anti ton strategy but that could come from robz being a sub par town player(said by him). His analysis on the cops seemed towny. Next comes more asking for other peoples analysis, and asking lurkers to post, neither town or scum read off this as it helps either one. Long time goes by and he mentions the fact that jimm and eevee could both be scum which is a definite possibility  although i'm inclined to thing eevee is town.

Have to go to dinner now will finish up thoughts on robz sometime soonish? and probably wont get to the next person for awhile.

No no no. This is not the same thing. I waited for Eevee to respond--and warned others to do the same--because I didn't want anybody explaining what they thought Eevee meant. BEcause then Eevee could just copy that. After Eevee gave his statement, I enthusiastically gave my view of it, and asked others to do the same. So I think you're mixed up here in reading this as an anti-town thing to do.