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Author Topic: Interview with Donald X.  (Read 1978449 times)

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arcee

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #5375 on: July 12, 2022, 11:16:57 pm »
+1

How do you feel about the balance between putting the rules on the components vs saving space/font size and sending people to the rulebook?  The specific one that surprised me recently was the Favours mat in Allies, it mentions you need one Ally with Liaisons but not that each player starts with a Favour.  Containing part but not all of the setup for this situation seems the worst of both worlds - I think it's easier to forget the favour than if there were no text on the mat.  Interested if you can think of other situations where you had to choose these sorts of things.
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Donald X.

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #5376 on: July 13, 2022, 11:22:52 am »
+7

How do you feel about the balance between putting the rules on the components vs saving space/font size and sending people to the rulebook?  The specific one that surprised me recently was the Favours mat in Allies, it mentions you need one Ally with Liaisons but not that each player starts with a Favour.  Containing part but not all of the setup for this situation seems the worst of both worlds - I think it's easier to forget the favour than if there were no text on the mat.  Interested if you can think of other situations where you had to choose these sorts of things.
Possibly the mat should have had that setup Favor on it. As I like to say, you never see the mistakes they caught. We catch lots of mistakes ;_;

In general Dominion leans towards putting stuff on the cards, not in the rulebook. For all games I like putting stuff on the cards, but sometimes something is very common and easy to remember and it will save a lot of space to put it in the rulebook. Or it may feel like it's really the game and not the card. There are also corner cases that don't really come up; those don't like to be explained on cards. And some stuff just has no hope of fitting on the cards.

Overpay is now very rulebook-y - with no rulebook yet - but that's a result of needing to work with what was there (I don't know what it would look like if I were making the set from scratch today; I haven't put in that work).
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arcee

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #5377 on: July 13, 2022, 02:35:56 pm »
0

In general Dominion leans towards putting stuff on the cards, not in the rulebook. For all games I like putting stuff on the cards, but sometimes something is very common and easy to remember and it will save a lot of space to put it in the rulebook. Or it may feel like it's really the game and not the card.

Ways are a good example of this.  Each could have said how to use them but that makes for a lot of distracting text, just as well to make people learn it the hard way once and then easily see what each Way does.
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dz

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #5378 on: July 13, 2022, 03:27:47 pm »
+1

Would you reword Guardian/Ghost Town/Night Watchman/Den of Sin to match Berserker? I think this change would have more upsides than downsides (other than the downside of needing errata)?
"To hand" is simpler in that maybe something messes the situation up, and if that means it's not in your hand that's no problem, and if it means you don't have the card to put it into play, well it used to be that that was a problem. These days however, we don't play the card if you lost it, so, aside from needing to know that, they would work with "play this." It does seem like I would have done that, and just lived with not being able to Exorcist those cards (as usual Dominion doesn't need any particular cute combo).

But, this doesn't seem like the kind of change I'd make with errata.

Actually, I think Villa might be the most deserving of the Berserker wording. We can get rid of the "put this into your hand, +1 Action" middleman and just play it.

Villa
+2 Actions
+1 Buy
+$1
----
When you gain this, you may play it, and if it's your Buy phase return to your Action phase.

Anyways, more things I'm curious about (and/or want to put on the wiki):

Why did Urchin not get errata (to line up with Hermit)? Is it because Urchin getting "exchange" doesn't make enough of a difference to justify errata?

Why do Tax, Defiled Shrine Messenger need to be "in your buy phase" and not "during your turn"? Of all the when-buy to when-gain changes, those are the only ones which I think may be unnecessarily conservative.

What do you think of the concept of cards that "bundle" a bunch of other cards (like Tournament and Page)? Other than being intimidating for casual players, I think they (usually) have the problem of one bad apple spoiling the rest (e.g. Warrior)?

The secret history says that Trail got its when-trash ability late. And from what I've seen, Trail jumping out of the trash was unintuitive for a lot of people (fortunately it's in the rulebook). Was this a concern at all (I can't really think of a better wording to solve this though)?

Do you think that 3-cost cards are the most likely to go wrong? It seems like raising Urchin/Ambassador/Stockpile to 4 would solve (not all, but most) of their problems.

In general, how good are you at predicting "a lot of casuals will hate this card" and "a lot of experts will hate this card"?
« Last Edit: July 13, 2022, 07:13:52 pm by dz »
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Donald X.

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #5379 on: July 14, 2022, 02:38:29 pm »
+7

Actually, I think Villa might be the most deserving of the Berserker wording. We can get rid of the "put this into your hand, +1 Action" middleman and just play it.
Looks nice.

Why did Urchin not get errata (to line up with Hermit)? Is it because Urchin getting "exchange" doesn't make enough of a difference to justify errata?
It's something I can consider again the next time the set is reprinted. Dark Ages has a trashing theme; it matters if cards go to the trash. That's something to preserve if there isn't a good reason to change it. It's nice to exchange, especially once the word is in the set; it's more what was meant in the first place (the Urchin turns into a Mercenary, he doesn't die), and works cleanly. Once you know what it is. Ultimately it's a question as to which is better.

Why do Tax, Defiled Shrine Messenger need to be "in your buy phase" and not "during your turn"? Of all the when-buy to when-gain changes, those are the only ones which I think may be unnecessarily conservative.
For Tax, I'd be punishing Action Workshops if I made it "turn"; on a card that I'm just fixing, not making from scratch, there's sure no call for that.

Defiled Shrine could possibly be "turn." It would let you Workshop the Curse but that's not so bad. It doesn't make much of a difference for Black Cat.

Incidentally! Basilica and Colonnade are both getting "in your Buy phase" added. I tried for the simplest versions of the cards, and let them be more different to get there, but a bunch of people complained, and while they don't seem super reasonable to me, them being unhappy with this change is real, and the intention was to fix cards not make them as if new cards, and "in your Buy phase" is not the mess that "that you bought" is.

And! Donate will somehow get more different at the same time, it will trigger at the start of your next turn, that's right. This has played great. It's a little weird since you're not used to it, but is as close as possible to the original while getting rid of rules problems. Yes "first" means before other start-of-turn stuff. And we can cite how e.g. it means you're immune to Militia for a turn. But it's very close to the original. It even gets rid of some unintentional changes the other versions had, like being able to trash everything with Tomb on your last turn.

Donate: Event, 8D
At the start of your next turn, first, put your deck and discard pile into your hand, trash any number of cards from it, then shuffle the rest into your deck and draw 5 cards.

Basilica: Landmark
When you gain a card in your Buy phase, if you have $2 or more, take 2VP from here.
----------
Setup: Put 6VP here per player.

Colonnade: Landmark
When you gain an Action card in your Buy phase, if you have a copy of it in play, take 2VP from here.
----------
Setup: Put 6VP here per player.

And these changes will appear in the next release of the TGG version, and I mean whenever Stef puts them in for dominion.games.

And I will go report this on the discord too, and figure that Nick / Punchball / Jeebus will see it here.

What do you think of the concept of cards that "bundle" a bunch of other cards (like Tournament and Page)? Other than being intimidating for casual players, I think they (usually) have the problem of one bad apple spoiling the rest (e.g. Warrior)?
I'm not sure what you mean by "bundle" there; Allies is not so far in the past, and obv. I was pleased enough with what Allies did then. I am still pleased with it. The big problem is "read these three other cards to understand this card." With the split piles, casual players can reduce that to, "this will give me control of the pile and that's probably something"; I don't think they read all the cards. I mean they didn't, when I played with them. And then they were more likely to rotate just to see what was next, and you know, the cards to read end up spaced out some. So it's not as bad as it sounds. And I mean there the set is, saying I approve. Now that it's out, no change there. And more-than-ideally complex for casual players, but not too much to want to print, and I think they're good times for casual players.

Page is like that but less so. Tournament isn't like that at all; you can ignore Prizes until you win one, but then you have to read five cards. It's certainly a burden. Tournament is one of the most complex cards in the game - figure out this 2x2 payoff grid, then read 5 more cards. Really that should have been two different cards. And then, having to read 5 cards at once is bad, and there are various things you can do to improve that.

The secret history says that Trail got its when-trash ability late. And from what I've seen, Trail jumping out of the trash was unintuitive for a lot of people (fortunately it's in the rulebook). Was this a concern at all (I can't really think of a better wording to solve this though)?
No, I mean if I'd thought "people won't understand this" I would have tried to make it clearer. Probably a parenthetical could have addressed the trash-jump, if nothing else did the trick.

Do you think that 3-cost cards are the most likely to go wrong? It seems like raising Urchin/Ambassador/Stockpile to 4 would solve (not all, but most) of their problems.
I don't think $3 is especially a problem. Sure it means you can open with two copies of the card; $4 is in some sense safer. But $2 means you can empty the pile quickly sometimes, and $5 means someone can open it with a 5/2. Those are probably both bigger issues.

Stockpile should be $4, and then might be fine. I don't think that fixes Ambassador. It's hard to know how Urchin plays out then, but it would be worth trying.

In general, how good are you at predicting "a lot of casuals will hate this card" and "a lot of experts will hate this card"?
If I think a lot of players will hate a card, it tends not to get published, and then I don't find out if they actually would have. So I mean, there's a lack of data here!

There are a few general trends though, visible in published cards, that tend to hold true but don't quite kill cards. Knights will have a group of people who hate them; attacks in general are less-liked by some players, but extra-liked by others. Simple cards will have a group of people who would rather have had some more novel unplayably complex card.
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Jeebus

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #5380 on: July 15, 2022, 03:51:45 am »
+4

And I will go report this on the discord too, and figure that Nick / Punchball / Jeebus will see it here.

I'm not checking Discord a lot, so I would appreciate it if you would post things like this in this forum too (like now).

Commodore Chuckles

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #5381 on: July 24, 2022, 05:27:21 pm »
0

Merchant Camp seems weak for $3. Was it tried at $2 and found to be too strong?
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Donald X.

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #5382 on: July 25, 2022, 12:27:16 pm »
+2

Merchant Camp seems weak for $3. Was it tried at $2 and found to be too strong?
No, I was happy with it at $3.
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DaveColMD

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #5383 on: August 15, 2022, 11:41:37 am »
0

Just a curiosity. Are the expansions and new cards play tested at the table, or online, or with a simulator?
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Donald X.

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #5384 on: August 15, 2022, 02:02:17 pm »
+1

Just a curiosity. Are the expansions and new cards play tested at the table, or online, or with a simulator?
At the table and online. A few things have been simulated over the years, including by Geronimoo.
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Sheogorath

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #5385 on: September 05, 2022, 04:25:18 pm »
0

Do you know if the BGG Store be getting duration Prince anytime soon?
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Donald X.

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #5386 on: September 06, 2022, 02:20:28 am »
+1

Do you know if the BGG Store be getting duration Prince anytime soon?
Not soon.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #5387 on: September 15, 2022, 04:18:24 pm »
0

Iím guessing this may have been discussed a while ago, butÖ why isnít Lich a duration card? It does something after your turn is over, and it feels like it would be helpful to stay out and remind you to skip a turn. Seems like the same thing as Outpost really. Just played a 3-player game where someone forgot to skip a turn.
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Donald X.

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #5388 on: September 16, 2022, 01:09:31 am »
+1

Iím guessing this may have been discussed a while ago, butÖ why isnít Lich a duration card? It does something after your turn is over, and it feels like it would be helpful to stay out and remind you to skip a turn. Seems like the same thing as Outpost really. Just played a 3-player game where someone forgot to skip a turn.
There were Duration card versions, and I don't mean with some other ability, just for the "skip a turn." My best guess without digging through old posts is that it changed simply due to, if it's a Duration, when do you discard it, and how well do people do at not having to ask and getting that right. If it's not a Duration card, you just discard it the turn you played it, only Duration cards give you any thinking to do there.
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Commodore Chuckles

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #5389 on: October 08, 2022, 02:21:29 pm »
0

Duration Lich has a bunch of problems. If you discard it on the skipped turn, then you're doing something on that turn and so not actually "skipping" it. And then what if you have other Durations in play on the skipped turn? Why do you resolve and discard Lich but not the others? But if you discard it on the turn AFTER the skipped turn, that breaks the rule that Durations only remain in play if they have still have something to do.
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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #5390 on: October 09, 2022, 11:22:12 pm »
+2

I think the rules for durations would call for it to be discarded at the end of your opponent's turn after the turn you skipped, which seems like a hard thing to remember.

GendoIkari

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #5391 on: October 10, 2022, 09:56:32 am »
0

I think the rules for durations would call for it to be discarded at the end of your opponent's turn after the turn you skipped, which seems like a hard thing to remember.

Yeah, Duration cards only get discarded during a clean-up phase, but they don't have to be your clean-up phase. So it would go away next time there is a clean-up phase after the skipped turn. Which I agree would be confusing for people that don't spend their days thinking about these sorts of interactions.
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JoeX111

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #5392 on: October 22, 2022, 06:40:41 pm »
0

You mentioned, back when fielding questions about Android: Infiltration and Factory Job, that you had another game called Heist? Iíd love to hear more about it.
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Donald X.

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #5393 on: October 23, 2022, 03:59:23 pm »
+3

You mentioned, back when fielding questions about Android: Infiltration and Factory Job, that you had another game called Heist? Iíd love to hear more about it.
For me the question here is, have I given up on that game yet? I'm sure not showing it around. A couple friends adore it, but the last time I worked on it, one player managed to make it political, and that killed my interest in it. I just have no interest in political games. I didn't think they'd found a fundamental flaw in the game, but I'm always playing with that person.

I feel like Heist solved a problem that I don't see solved: the idea of a game where the players have to co-operate but only one player wins. These games are always awful; the move is to not co-operate and hope the other players choose you winning over everyone losing. You can make one of those that works though, now you know. And knowing makes it easier to find the solution, and well, like I said, have I given up on that game yet? If not, I've said too much already. For me the uneasy co-operation was a key joy of the game; otherwise I could just make a co-op version.

Heist was "thugs going on heists" themed, something I did a lot oh 25 years ago. The public response to Greed made me think, oh well, the world doesn't want crime flavor, and these days I'd probably do it as fantasy heroes going into dungeons. I made such a version oh like 8 years ago? That was Heist's last stand so far. I still might revisit it though, or re-use a mechanic from it, and that just plummets my interest in spelling out what it had going on.

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LastFootnote

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #5394 on: October 23, 2022, 05:50:44 pm »
0

Heist is great. I've played lots of it and still get it to the table some these days.

Factory Job is also fun (much more so than Infiltration), but I accidentally wrinkled up my paper board of it and haven't yet had the wherewithal to print and tape together a new one.
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Joshua

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #5395 on: October 28, 2022, 02:37:32 am »
+3

Any news on Plunder?
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Donald X.

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #5396 on: October 28, 2022, 02:50:10 pm »
+2

Any news on Plunder?
No; we still expect it to be printed Nov. 3. And then the release date is down to how long shipping takes.
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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #5397 on: October 28, 2022, 05:19:20 pm »
0

What is the usual delay between the printing date and the previews / online availability? (What was the delay for the last few expansions?)
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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #5398 on: October 29, 2022, 03:35:49 am »
0

Speaking of shipping times, how does it work?
I'm still waiting for the 2nd edition of Seaside/Prosperity/Hinterlands and their update packs.
I think it takes around 3 months from an expansion is released until I can buy it here in Sweden and that time seems to have been consistent for many years now, although this time it seems to be over 4 months.
The actual effect is that I get to be excited about every expansion three times (when it is announced, when I see the previews, and when I get it) with enough time to forget about it in between to make the excitement bigger for each step.

Based on what I see on this forum obviously some people get access to new Dominion stuff immediately when it's released but which parts of the world are they in and why is the difference in time so long until it reaches the rest of us?

Please note that this is not intended as a complaint. I'm just curious to understand how the shipping works.
Is it logistics involving boats across the oceans that is slow, is it that production can't keep up with demand the first months, or is it just difficult to get deliveries through the hoards of vikings around our coasts?
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Donald X.

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #5399 on: October 29, 2022, 01:26:56 pm »
0

What is the usual delay between the printing date and the previews / online availability? (What was the delay for the last few expansions?)
To answer this accurately I'd just be looking up forum posts, which you can do as easily.
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