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[yuma]

Haven't done a full read through but here are a few things...

1. if it came down to Qvist or Frisk, I would pick Qvist. Hands down. I was suspicious of him day 2 and still am. Intent to hammer means absolutely nothing if you don't.

2. but why are only Qvist and Frisk being discussed? I want to take a good hard look at ash and Volt. Ash is probably still my number 1 scum read. It was really hard for me to abandon that wagon to go to jot.

[yuma]

We are also now to the point where 3 of the 6 VTs are dead, with 2 claimed.... I still don't think this is a point where we would want other VTs to claim (for fear of outing our PRs), but could be worth discussing. Times like these I wish ehunt was still alive to do his theory math.

[TheMunch]

We are also now to the point where 3 of the 6 VTs are dead, with 2 claimed.... I still don't think this is a point where we would want other VTs to claim (for fear of outing our PRs), but could be worth discussing. Times like these I wish ehunt was still alive to do his theory math.

NO ONE CLAIM EVER!

[Axxle]

We are also now to the point where 3 of the 6 VTs are dead, with 2 claimed.... I still don't think this is a point where we would want other VTs to claim (for fear of outing our PRs), but could be worth discussing. Times like these I wish ehunt was still alive to do his theory math.

No way.

[yuma]

We are also now to the point where 3 of the 6 VTs are dead, with 2 claimed.... I still don't think this is a point where we would want other VTs to claim (for fear of outing our PRs), but could be worth discussing. Times like these I wish ehunt was still alive to do his theory math.

NO ONE CLAIM EVER!

My VT claim saved me from getting lynch, a lynch that looked pretty likely up to that point. Your insistance that claims should never happen is ridiculous. Forcing claims out was what won town the game in MIII. (sorry, another game reference for you)

[yuma]

1. Eevee
2. Yuma
3. Ashersky
4. Axxle
5. Qvist
6. Frisk
7. Voltgloss
8. Jotheonah

jot's list of suspects from the evening before he was lynched... note that it lacks Frisk.

But I do think it is interesting that his scummy reads are eevee (town) me (town) and then ash. You would think that scum would put at least one scum buddy in the top 3 wouldn't you?

[TheMunch]

We are also now to the point where 3 of the 6 VTs are dead, with 2 claimed.... I still don't think this is a point where we would want other VTs to claim (for fear of outing our PRs), but could be worth discussing. Times like these I wish ehunt was still alive to do his theory math.

NO ONE CLAIM EVER!

My VT claim saved me from getting lynch, a lynch that looked pretty likely up to that point. Your insistance that claims should never happen is ridiculous. Forcing claims out was what won town the game in MIII. (sorry, another game reference for you)

You can reference other games, I really dont mind.  As I am in more, I can understand the desire.  However, this doesn't change my mind about claiming.  I will concede that there might be setups where claiming can be particularly breaking but I dont think this is one.  I will continue to insist that claiming is a bad idea.

[TheMunch]

1. Eevee
2. Yuma
3. Ashersky
4. Axxle
5. Qvist
6. Frisk
7. Voltgloss
8. Jotheonah

jot's list of suspects from the evening before he was lynched... note that it lacks Frisk.

But I do think it is interesting that his scummy reads are eevee (town) me (town) and then ash. You would think that scum would put at least one scum buddy in the top 3 wouldn't you?

I could see that.  I was sold on CF/Qvist.  I'm starting to lean towards CF/Ash as the 2 remaining scum.

[ashersky]

1. Eevee
2. Yuma
3. Ashersky
4. Axxle
5. Qvist
6. Frisk
7. Voltgloss
8. Jotheonah

jot's list of suspects from the evening before he was lynched... note that it lacks Frisk.

But I do think it is interesting that his scummy reads are eevee (town) me (town) and then ash. You would think that scum would put at least one scum buddy in the top 3 wouldn't you?

It lacks Frisk?  You mean the Frisk listed at #6?  Would scum put at least one scum buddy in the bottom 3?

[Voltgloss]

1. Eevee
2. Yuma
3. Ashersky
4. Axxle
5. Qvist
6. Frisk
7. Voltgloss
8. Jotheonah

jot's list of suspects from the evening before he was lynched... note that it lacks Frisk.

But I do think it is interesting that his scummy reads are eevee (town) me (town) and then ash. You would think that scum would put at least one scum buddy in the top 3 wouldn't you?

Two things:

1.  joth's list lacks Munch, not Frisk.  [PPE: half-ninja'd by ash]

2.  If joth and ash are both scum, that means they both jumped immediately on the yumawagon that I started, as votes 2 and 3.  I find it somewhat unlikely that scum would act so blatantly in tandem.  Not 100% unlikely, but unlikely enough that I currently have ash as my #3 suspect (behind Qvist and Axxle). 

[Axxle]

We are also now to the point where 3 of the 6 VTs are dead, with 2 claimed.... I still don't think this is a point where we would want other VTs to claim (for fear of outing our PRs), but could be worth discussing. Times like these I wish ehunt was still alive to do his theory math.

NO ONE CLAIM EVER!

My VT claim saved me from getting lynch, a lynch that looked pretty likely up to that point. Your insistance that claims should never happen is ridiculous. Forcing claims out was what won town the game in MIII. (sorry, another game reference for you)

You can reference other games, I really dont mind.  As I am in more, I can understand the desire.  However, this doesn't change my mind about claiming.  I will concede that there might be setups where claiming can be particularly breaking but I dont think this is one.  I will continue to insist that claiming is a bad idea.

We can massclaim if we lynch scum today and our PR doesn't get killed.

[yuma]

yes munch, not frisk

[Voltgloss]

The flipside question that I'm wrestling with:  How likely is a scumteam of joth-Qvist-Axxle, given their failing to get town lynched on Day 2?  Especially with both yuma and ash having been likely targets?

I'm trying to answer this during my reread.  I welcome others' thoughts on the subject.

[Axxle]

We can massclaim if we lynch scum today and our PR doesn't get killed.

Actually if this happens, the cop should just claim and the doctor should just protect him every day while the cop investigates people.

[Axxle]

The flipside question that I'm wrestling with:  How likely is a scumteam of joth-Qvist-Axxle, given their failing to get town lynched on Day 2?  Especially with both yuma and ash having been likely targets?

I'm trying to answer this during my reread.  I welcome others' thoughts on the subject.

I would have totally lynched yuma as scum and lined up Eevee as the mislynch since he "knew" yuma was town.

[Axxle]

Going to check the yuma wagon for scum, one sec.

[Voltgloss]

Going to check the yuma wagon for scum, one sec.

ash got to L-1 as well, didn't he?  Could you check that wagon also?

[ashersky]

Can we discuss Axxle some?  There was definite heat on him for lurking yesterday, and he's quickposted a few things today from his phone, but no substance.  Just "liked" the CF and Qvist arguments, and said no way to claiming.

Has he had any analytic posts this game?

PPE lots, including from Axxle.

The flipside question that I'm wrestling with:  How likely is a scumteam of joth-Qvist-Axxle, given their failing to get town lynched on Day 2?  Especially with both yuma and ash having been likely targets?

I'm trying to answer this during my reread.  I welcome others' thoughts on the subject.

Best guess here is they were fishing for roles?  They'd want to hit a PR, I think, either through mislynch or POE at night.  Qvist is new, and I don't know scum!Axxle, but scum!joth is definitely smart enough to hatch a plan like that, I think.

We can massclaim if we lynch scum today and our PR doesn't get killed.

Actually if this happens, the cop should just claim and the doctor should just protect him every day while the cop investigates people.

Your plan sounds flawed to me.  If we massclaimed, the cop would have already claimed.  You've only got WIFOM to try to keep one of the two PRs alive, but most likely we lose the doctor.  If cop didn't catch scum that night, and we mislynch, cop is gone the next night.

I mean, it might be worth the risk?  But I'd need some convincing to be done by some others here.

[Axxle]

Galz lynch: Captain_Frisk, eHunt, Galzria, Jotheonah, TheMunch, yuma

ash wagon: Captain_Frisk, Yuma, TheMunch, jotheonah

yuma wagon: Voltgloss, jotheonah, TheMunch, ashersky

joth lynch: Eevee, Axxle, Yuma, Captain_Frisk, TheMunch


I'm actually not trusting ash's breadcrumbs as much anymore since I notice he placed them during Day 2, plenty of time for scum tactics to take effect:

vote: ashersky works for me.

That's L-1.  I'm VT guys.  I breadcrumbed this here:

CF's lynch my list is a scum gambit for the win, I believe.  He's been trying to lead town in the way he loves as mafia, and he's trying to again.

Eevee's vote was bad town play, I think.  Town v. Town there.

Yuma's survival has not given me a townier read than before, but his posts have stayed consistent throughout.  When we were scum together before, I think he was more meticulous, so I think his posting does gain him some towncred.

I don't like the cases on Eevee, and don't share your opinion on him.  Pretty sure I've been anti-Eevee-lynch all this time.

Vote: Captain_Frisk.

VLA for Thanksgiving.

Also, the lurker lynch thing will continue to discriminate against those of us living outside the majority time zones of everyone else.  I am contributing reads, and votes.  Nothing else I can do in my role here.

And here:

This.

Lurker ash and "man he feels scummy" are the top reasons for voting me.  I can't do much about the first and I don't have an answer to the second, as seen in all games I play.

I have given my own analysis and reasoning for votes, and who I would and wouldn't vote for.  I feel like that has to be helpful to the town.  What else can I provide?

PPE -- I forgot Axxle.  Null read there.

PPE at Eevee.  I'd vote my #2 scumread, but the yuma wagon (suspiciously!) died.  So #3 was Axxle, so Vote: Axxle.  Voltgloss is voting him, and sees the scummy lurker bit clearly, so I feel okay with that.  Definitely better than no lynch.

[Axxle]

inb4 IIoA

[ashersky]

When would you have me breadcrumb?  Things started looking bad for me, I didn't want to be mislynched yet again, I crumbed.  If you are claiming it was planned, I mean, breadcrumbs are intentional, by definition.  I planned to fit those words into my posts when I was worried I might have to claim and defend myself.

[Axxle]

You put breadcrumbs when you don't fear for your life, otherwise it's just a prolonged claim.

[yuma]

When would you have me breadcrumb?  Things started looking bad for me, I didn't want to be mislynched yet again, I crumbed.  If you are claiming it was planned, I mean, breadcrumbs are intentional, by definition.  I planned to fit those words into my posts when I was worried I might have to claim and defend myself.

I just don't see the point of breadcrumbing VT... what is the point?

breadcrumbs aren't that useful ever. They are always doubted, but if you are going to put them down, probably as a PR, they are best done day 1. Nice and early so that there isn't the doubt of "he only put them down because he was scum getting pressure"

[ashersky]

When would you have me breadcrumb?  Things started looking bad for me, I didn't want to be mislynched yet again, I crumbed.  If you are claiming it was planned, I mean, breadcrumbs are intentional, by definition.  I planned to fit those words into my posts when I was worried I might have to claim and defend myself.

I just don't see the point of breadcrumbing VT... what is the point?

breadcrumbs aren't that useful ever. They are always doubted, but if you are going to put them down, probably as a PR, they are best done day 1. Nice and early so that there isn't the doubt of "he only put them down because he was scum getting pressure"

Do players really start crumbing their role at the beginning of the game?  As a PR, I've always worried that they'd be picked up early.  I see breadcrumbing as an attempt to add credibility to a claim.  Of course, scum can do it to, which is the drawback of anything in the game.  Anyone can do any of it.

[yuma]

Well that is the risk with breadcrumbs and why they aren't ideal to use.

Grujah was the king of them back when. His were subtly complicated. I have done them as scum... Blitz I and partially as town PR in MVIII. But VT? Again, what is the point.

A PR putting down a breadcrumb is to help prevent his lynch later on down the road to the detriment of town. But most of the times, a VT lynch isn't the end of the world (unless it is lylo or close to it)