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[Eevee]

Breaking my VLA one last time, phoneposting before the party. First, I'd like to note the two guys I've been heavily suspecting are the ones voting for me, so I actually feel pretty good about that. "Press it until it hurts" if you get the Suits-reference. I assume the thing that "feels off" about my play here is the aggressiveness of my scumhunting? Because I actually decided pre-game I'd try that, I've sort of forgotten the fail of murder mystery and VII and have my stronger performances (IX and X) fresh in my mind, so I feel more confident in my abilities for a change and also for oncr have so few games going I can really focus on this (especially after dying in wafflemafia). So, I've consciously tried to stop my terrible tendency of never building my own cases but rather sheeping others (even if they are smarter than I am, it sucks because they might be scum). So yeah, I realize this makes me more controversial but I really think it's stronger play too.

[jotheonah]

I find that rather compelling. Vote: ashersky.

[ashersky]

Breaking my VLA one last time, phoneposting before the party. First, I'd like to note the two guys I've been heavily suspecting are the ones voting for me, so I actually feel pretty good about that. "Press it until it hurts" if you get the Suits-reference. I assume the thing that "feels off" about my play here is the aggressiveness of my scumhunting? Because I actually decided pre-game I'd try that, I've sort of forgotten the fail of murder mystery and VII and have my stronger performances (IX and X) fresh in my mind, so I feel more confident in my abilities for a change and also for oncr have so few games going I can really focus on this (especially after dying in wafflemafia). So, I've consciously tried to stop my terrible tendency of never building my own cases but rather sheeping others (even if they are smarter than I am, it sucks because they might be scum). So yeah, I realize this makes me more controversial but I really think it's stronger play too.

Eevee, if you've got MX in mind, you ought to be thinking back on my style there, too.  And unvote, because your read is wrong.  I may be playing more confidently, bu not scummily.

I find that rather compelling. Vote: ashersky.

This seems like blatant sheeping and awful scummy.

[Jorbles]

Going V/LA for the rest of the weekend, but I am happy to leave my vote on Dsell. What I think some people are reading as towny, I am reading as cautious mafia.

I'm not sure what to make of this swirl of votes around Eevee/ashersky/archetype/jotheonah. It all seems like a lot of finger pointing. It's a lot of pot stirring for it all to be town on town though.

[Dsell]

Going V/LA for the rest of the weekend, but I am happy to leave my vote on Dsell. What I think some people are reading as towny, I am reading as cautious mafia.

I'm not sure what to make of this swirl of votes around Eevee/ashersky/archetype/jotheonah. It all seems like a lot of finger pointing. It's a lot of pot stirring for it all to be town on town though.

I still don't really get this vote at all.

[cayvie]

eHal, can we get the latest vote count?

So, assuming Cayvie/Ashersky wagons are losing momentum, where do we look?  I suppose strat is slightly different given the set-up, but how much?  Role fishing helps only scum, I think, so even with that madness, I don't see that as a viable conversation topic for now.

We haven't discussed flavor for awhile, though it seems important.  What can we glean from flavor that would help? 

If we separate the silly (Robz spells) from the real (Neo code), what are we left with?  I don't know, honestly, but open it up for discussion.

Eevee, if you've got MX in mind, you ought to be thinking back on my style there, too.  And unvote, because your read is wrong.  I may be playing more confidently, bu not scummily.

You know, you don't get to just declare what the town thinks, especially not about how you're playing. Your repeated attempts remind me of Robz in Mafia VI.

vote: ashersky

[jotheonah]

Breaking my VLA one last time, phoneposting before the party. First, I'd like to note the two guys I've been heavily suspecting are the ones voting for me, so I actually feel pretty good about that. "Press it until it hurts" if you get the Suits-reference. I assume the thing that "feels off" about my play here is the aggressiveness of my scumhunting? Because I actually decided pre-game I'd try that, I've sort of forgotten the fail of murder mystery and VII and have my stronger performances (IX and X) fresh in my mind, so I feel more confident in my abilities for a change and also for oncr have so few games going I can really focus on this (especially after dying in wafflemafia). So, I've consciously tried to stop my terrible tendency of never building my own cases but rather sheeping others (even if they are smarter than I am, it sucks because they might be scum). So yeah, I realize this makes me more controversial but I really think it's stronger play too.

Eevee, if you've got MX in mind, you ought to be thinking back on my style there, too.  And unvote, because your read is wrong.  I may be playing more confidently, bu not scummily.

I find that rather compelling. Vote: ashersky.

This seems like blatant sheeping and awful scummy.

False. I was the first one to vote for you remember? Eevee's just talked me back onto the wagon. I only abandoned it before because it looked dead.

[ashersky]

You know, you don't get to just declare what the town thinks, especially not about how you're playing. Your repeated attempts remind me of Robz in Mafia VI.

vote: ashersky

That's a first, I've never been compared to Robz before.

I think I am allowed to declare what I think the town thinks, which is what I was doing.  Do I need to preface all statements with "I think..."?

Maybe folks need to take the weekend to recharge the batteries and come at this fresh.  There's been a lot of jumping all over each other for what seems like very little.

I will say, my reads, in descending order of scumminess (should get this in in case I die--also, I assume scum is on my wagon):

Scummy:  Eevee, Joth, cayvie, insom, galz

Neutral:  Dsell, ftl, Archetype, frisk

Town:  Robz, Jorbles, Me.

Null:  everyone else

Lot of quiet folks the last few days...maybe they'll mail in some content soon...

PPE:

False. I was the first one to vote for you remember? Eevee's just talked me back onto the wagon. I only abandoned it before because it looked dead.

Fair enough.  Why were you willing to let the wagon die on me if you are so sure I am scum?  (I am not mafia.)

[ashersky]

eHalc, can we get a vote count?  I think it's been about six pages and a dozen votes back.

I believe I am at L-4.  There may be two people with 2 votes.

[Voltgloss]

Vote Count 1.5

Archetype (1): Eevee
ashersky (2): jotheonah, cayvie
Dsell (1): Jorbles
Eevee (2): Archetype, ashersky
Galzria (1): Watno
Jorbles (2): Insomniac, Robz888
jotheonah (1): ftl
Robz888 (2): shraeye, Galzria
shraeye (1): Captain_Frisk

Not voting (2): Lekkit, Dsell

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

Lynch deadline: Monday, October 8, 5:00pm MDT

[Watno]

I don't think Eevee is scummy for voting Archetype. His argument makes sense.

I don't like Archetypes defense. He says Eevee is voting him over a wording error which i don't see Eevee saying he did, and votes him with the justification "OMGUS and he voted me". Well "He voted me" is OMGUS". Not sure wether its scummy though.

However, i'll vote ashersky

I agree with Eevee that Archetype's plan sounds a bit scummy; the whole "I'll plant my vote here for now but will change when I can hop to a safe wagon" thing comes across badly.

That said, I think Eevee's behavior lately has been suspect, especially given past play.  Eevee is the towniest of town, and yet not this game.  He's just a bit...off?  Vote: Eevee.

I understand he's going V/LA though, so note I am willing to unvote if this turns into a quick-wagon.

I'll note joth in the scummish column as well.  Robz a bit closer to neutral.

What i read here is: "What Eevee says makes sense, but his playing scummy lately. I vote him" I don't see why you find Eevee's behaviour suspect if you agree with it?

[ashersky]

I don't think Eevee is scummy for voting Archetype. His argument makes sense.

I don't like Archetypes defense. He says Eevee is voting him over a wording error which i don't see Eevee saying he did, and votes him with the justification "OMGUS and he voted me". Well "He voted me" is OMGUS". Not sure wether its scummy though.

However, i'll vote ashersky

I agree with Eevee that Archetype's plan sounds a bit scummy; the whole "I'll plant my vote here for now but will change when I can hop to a safe wagon" thing comes across badly.

That said, I think Eevee's behavior lately has been suspect, especially given past play.  Eevee is the towniest of town, and yet not this game.  He's just a bit...off?  Vote: Eevee.

I understand he's going V/LA though, so note I am willing to unvote if this turns into a quick-wagon.

I'll note joth in the scummish column as well.  Robz a bit closer to neutral.

What i read here is: "What Eevee says makes sense, but his playing scummy lately. I vote him" I don't see why you find Eevee's behaviour suspect if you agree with it?

I think you misread.  I said I agree with Eevee's take on Arch's actions, not with Eevee's behavior.  You even say that in your question.  They are two separate things--Eevee's take on Arch and Eevee's behavior--which is how I can agree on one and vote on the other.

[Lekkit]

ashersky, why do you think Insom and Galz are scummy? And why do you think Robz is town?

[shraeye]

Reread complete.  Reads are as follows.

Archetype: Quite scummy.  Right out of the gates, Archetype starts some weirdness.  He proposes random lynch, but also explicitly says that he doesn't want to be the one to lead that idea.  He calls eevee scummy for wanting to lynch lurkers in #284, but backs off almost immediately in #302 because of eevee's defense of "well joth and insom were pushing harder."  That's a terrible defense, and I'm always suspicious of people who "believe" bad arguments.  In #446 he has no strong scum reads.  Then in #508 he says he's getting "better reads on people", but then just randomly votes ftl without explanation, and as Eevee pointed out, gives himself an excuse to jump onto other wagons.  Despite this vote and his "better reads", he immediately in #510 says "but honestly, I don't really see any players that stand out as scummy".  And now he's doing the blatant OMGUS on eevee.  All of his actions seem driven by no arguments, bad arguments, or contradictory arguments.

ashersky: medium-strong town read.  I see lots of parallels to his play in ZM2, where he surprised me since I was convinced he was scum.  Now I'm understanding him better.  People have said that his arguments are very suspect, but I disagree.  He had a reasonable case on Eevee, that I didn't see anyone pick up on in post #264.  I agree with his self-assessment, that he's playing with more confidence in his reads, and that's the only change I see in him from his previous games.  Other people are saying "that feels different!" and assuming he's scummy.  He's playing pretty dangerously if he's scum, as he's giving more "reads" posts than anyone else, and taking very vocal positions.

cayvie: neutral to slight scum read.  There's the whole joke about the numbers that she posted.  I still think that joke feels scummy due to it being preceeded by post #124 where she basically says that she suspects these are factions.  I'm still not sure why she was speculating about whether I knew how D2 was different.  It seems that that speculation has no bearing on how D1 is progressing right now, it just serves to try to minimize the opinion of one of the main people who is suspicious of her.  Discredit instead of defend?  I don't like.  I think that cayvie's case on ftl had good merit though, and many people let that slip by.

Dsell: slight town read.  I agree that Jorbles is tunnelling Dsell too much, there are much scummier people out there.  He has taken some major stances on things, defending cayvie, and attacking Robz's philosophy of sitting back and adding very little on Day 1 for RMM games.  This is a bit of a gut-read and I look forward to seeing DSell posting more.

Eevee: slight scum My major problem with eevee's play is his hedging.  It seems to creep up all over the place.  In #223 he explains why he thinks Robz-casting is town-aligned, but he admits in that post that it's 'not a bulletproof argument'.  In #240 he is admitting that pushing my "slip" over whispering is anti-town and also asks others if we should do it (this is asher's argument).  In #274 he points out 4 person scum-team is reasonable, but immediately hedges with "but obviously it's possible we are dealing with something else."  See post #267 for hedges within hedges regarding jotheonah voting for voltaire, it's mind-boggling trying to unwrap that post.

Frisk: neutral  But also infuriating.  Why is he posting soo little again?  He puts out just enough to get beyond my tipping point between useless-lurker and oh-he's-actually-playing.  #456, 445, and 324 see him actually taking positions on a few things.  Post more.

ftl: Scummy Post #280 felt initially like he's shotgunning around arguments and scumreads and seeing what sticks; didn't like that.  On second read, some of those points seem less like pointing out suspicious things, and more like just taking the opportunity to chide various players.  Well, I don't like that either.  But here are the main reasons I'm getting a scum read off him.  In posts #426, 431, 436 he thinks that talking about flavor could be dangerous to town, but then immediately suggests flavor claiming.  And then within 10 posts, he backs off (431) then gets back on (436) the flavor claiming.  It seems waaay too much like he's just trying to end up on the same side as the majority and snag some town-cred here.  Then he votes for joth with "no concrete reasons" (#507) and then in #519 demands that Archetype explain his vote on Eevee.  Lord forbid that anyone other than ftl make a vote based on no evidence of scumminess.

Galz: gut says town, head says "watch out"  The head is saying watch out, because there's many many information filled posts here, but not much analysis of other players, or reads on other people.  His post where he was checking for eHalcyon spelling "nagini" was incredible, but in the end, gives no town/scum-read.  He voted for volt for not arriving, and then robz for the terrible "day-1-requires-no-effort" stance.  His stance on giving town maximal information because that is our only weapon is what makes my gut say town.

Insom: slight town  He's contributed his opinions on many topics, defending cayvie, pushing for no lynch over a bad lynch (but he's still pro-lynch in general).  I agree that Jorbles stance on "I will never claim" is not one I like, but I don't think that makes him scum.  Insomniac does have a lot of fluff posts as well, I want to see less of these.

I've got to get ready to go to a bachelor party now, I'll be back tomorrow to post my analysis on the remaining players.

[eHalcyon]

Vote Count 1.5

Archetype (1): Eevee
ashersky (2): jotheonah, cayvie
Dsell (1): Jorbles
Eevee (2): Archetype, ashersky
Galzria (1): Watno
Jorbles (2): Insomniac, Robz888
jotheonah (1): ftl
Robz888 (2): shraeye, Galzria
shraeye (1): Captain_Frisk

Not voting (2): Lekkit, Dsell

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

Lynch deadline: Monday, October 8, 5:00pm MDT

For the record, Volt's vote counts will be as official as my own.  I'm not checking them, but I'm sure he is more accurate than I usually am.

[shraeye]

Thanks for waiting for me to finish   I guess weekends aren't for posting anymore...?  No seriously, everyone, post stuff.

Jorbles: town town. He's being very observant and working hard to help town.  He redoes ftl's code breaking to be safe, and jumps on me for using whisper in #222 and 232.  Like Galz and the "nagini" post he's really looking for unusual things that jump out, but the difference that makes jorbles obv-town to me is that he's supplying a lot more theorizing and taking positions on things.  He theorizes on what "neo is the one" could mean in #254, we see him build and fall out of a read in #306 on cayvie (who he previously voted for) and then convinces himself out of it in #311.  Hedging within a post tends to give me bad vibes, but putting himself out there and then being willing to correct a bad read is something that shows that he didn't start out with the 'knowledge' of cayvie's alignment.  His refusing to claim even against the majority opinion is rather extreme, but I'm not quite buying that this is a scum-only argument.  Remember what many of us have been saying, that claims like this might accidently out our above-average-powerful-town, when he's forced to lie or be the only one in a particular flavor-universe.  Also, I think he could be right about the eevee, ashersky, archetype, jotheonah-fight probably contains at least one scum.  I think there's more than one there, and that possible distancing is going on.

jotheonah: scummy For a pretty high post count he has very little that I think is serious content.  He pushes voltaire lynch instead of replacement from the outset (I can't remember who said this, but someone said that when they were scum, they were very happy to have a lurker to lynch with a ready-made excuse).  He jumps on asher for "junk arguments", labelling them with his opinion that they were "junk" without explaining why they were bad.  I think he was arguments on joth and cayvie? I liked his argument on eevee and cayvie, so I don't think he's really making the junk arguments that joth thinks that asher is making.  His argument was not so strong on joth, I'll agree, although joth's first post about cleaning rooms did strike me as rather odd.  His post/content ratio is definitely the lowest right now.

robz: scummmmy Him only casting spells and using potions up to post #349 was not helpful in the least (he did vote for asher because of asher's "team spirit" post, and voltaire for lurking, as well as asking how people think he plays scum).  His argument in #355 about not caring about being active day1 in RMM is not a good one.  He then posts in #358 that he's not withholding thoughts, which can only lead me to believe that he doesn't have any serious thoughts yet.  Personally, I don't have that level of confidence in my ability to read people without engaging them, or in my ability to stay alive until day 2, and I can't afford to NOT be analyzing people constantly.  It seems to me that the only people with that much confidence in staying alive until day 2 when they'll "finally decide to be helpful" are people who know they don't have to worry about getting NKed.  I keep reading post #355 (i don't usually be active day 1 in RMM) and post #380 ("I didn't say...that I don't see value in contributing") back to back and it sounds like a contradiction every time.  His call in #468 to just "let him do his thing" just feels like he's asking for another day1 pass to me. I do not like that.

shraeye: My name is Victor, Shraeye is a nickname I picked up through playing Ultimate Frisbee.  I got that name after my team met a 8-yr-old kid at Atlanta Bread Company in Savannah, GA.  After asking us all where we were from and not understanding that places like Colorado, South Dakota, and Alaska exist, he proceeded to ask about the food we were eating.  Since I had already finished, he asked why I wasn't eating food.  Someone joked that I'm a robot, and the kid got super excited and told us all about his imaginary robot friend named Shraeye Shraimian.  I chose how to spell it, so I'm not sure why it's spelt so weird.  I blame that I was probably drunk and also exhausted after playing 5 games.

voltaire/lekkit: neutral  I got nothing here.  Post it up, man.  He eloquently makes the argument that I've been trying to say against Robz in #469.  He also has a town-read on Eevee, saying "All the games I've played with him he's been all over the place trying hard to make things happen. This game is no different." in post #523.  Could you explain this more? I have also played with Eevee in 2 completed games, and I somehow get the feeling that here he's not actually trying to make things happen.

watno: medium town read  Not posting all that much, would love to see increased participation.  He also found cayvie's joke slightly scummy in #366, but never voted for cayvie.  Doesn't agree with the Robz wagon for some reason, and voted galz early for "lying" about trying to steer the conversation away from RVS crap and fluff.  I think that Galz was trying to steer away from usual RVS stuff and towards flavor-type stuff, but have recently been feeling a lot like Galz is giving tons of info and not much analysis there, so watno may have a decent read there, Galz is the player I keep second-third-and-fourth guessing everything I think about him.  Watno is also a staunch defender of not claiming because that could be very dangerous for the above-average-powerful-town person.

[Robz888]

shraeye: My name is Victor, Shraeye is a nickname I picked up through playing Ultimate Frisbee.  I got that name after my team met a 8-yr-old kid at Atlanta Bread Company in Savannah, GA.  After asking us all where we were from and not understanding that places like Colorado, South Dakota, and Alaska exist, he proceeded to ask about the food we were eating.  Since I had already finished, he asked why I wasn't eating food.  Someone joked that I'm a robot, and the kid got super excited and told us all about his imaginary robot friend named Shraeye Shraimian.  I chose how to spell it, so I'm not sure why it's spelt so weird.  I blame that I was probably drunk and also exhausted after playing 5 games.

Cool!

[ashersky]

Thanks Shraeye, for all that content.  Very pro-town of you, I believe.

I agree with most of your reads, I think, though we differed most notably on Robz and Galz, and possibly Archetype.

We do need more content in here, hopefully Sunday is a slow day for folks and they can rejoin the game.

[Lekkit]

@ashersky, see my above questions.

@shraeye, Eevee is one of the ones actually pressing people, here. He writes stuff that I don't really find fluffy. I'm at my phone now, but could give you some more when I get back to a computer.

[ashersky]

ashersky, why do you think Insom and Galz are scummy? And why do you think Robz is town?

Sorry I neglected to respond.

Insom for a bit of rashness in his one that doesn't jive with previous iterations of Insom.  I thought his Jorbles vote was scummy.

Galz more for scummish lurkiness, and sheeping Insom.

The are at the lower end of the scummy spectrum though, and I feel much more strongly about Eevee and Cayvie, for previously stated reasons.

What are you thinking, Lekkit?

[Dsell]

I'm gonna start my reread now. I'm also making fudge, so it could take a while.

[eHalcyon]

I'm gonna start my reread now. I'm also making fudge, so it could take a while.

I hope this isn't a euphemism.

But why make your own fudge?  Are you too good for the fudge available in the Great Hall?

[jotheonah]

Cornelius Fudge softclaim??

[Lekkit]

@ashersky: I haven't really had any town/scum-vibes from either Insom or Galz this game, and that's why I was curious. You seem to think Robz is town when everyone else is suspecting him because of his statement about not participating much in the beginning and pretty much only doing random flavor. I would still like to know why you think Robz is town, as I think so too.

The thing is, you do look kind of suspicious to me, as two of the people who voted for you are on your scum-read list, jo have been voting for you and he's on the list as well. And you seem to think you were at L-4, which you were't really close to. Who else did you think was voting for you?

[jotheonah]

Yes, I also found that odd.

In response to your reasons for finding me scummy:

Your cases against myself and cayvie were self-evidently weak, so I didn't feel I needed to spell it out. Your vote on cayvie was predicated on thinking an obvious joke was serious and your case on me was for my very first post of the game, idle speculation about the flavor.

It just read to me as a lazy attempt to look like you were scumhunting.

The other part seems to be that I post a lot and there isn't a whole lot of game-relevant content. I gleefully concede the former. The latter is somewhat a matter of opinion, but I feel I've pulled my weight so far D1. I dislike making people read long books that include my thoughts on every other player. I much prefer to focus on one or two scumspects at a time, and attack them in short snippets.