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[Insomniac]

eHal, can we get the latest vote count?

Vote Count 1.2

ashersky (3): jotheonah, Eevee, Dsell
cayvie (1): ashersky
Dsell (1): Jorbles
ftl (1): cayvie
Galzria (1): Watno
jotheonah (1): ftl
Robz888 (1): shraeye
shraeye (1): Captain_Frisk
Voltaire (1): Robz888

Not voting (4): Archetype, Galzria, Insomniac, Voltaire

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

Lynch deadline: Monday, October 8, 5:00pm MDT

Please do let me know if something seems amiss.

I voted for no lynch...

[Dsell]

eHal, can we get the latest vote count?

Vote Count 1.2

ashersky (3): jotheonah, Eevee, Dsell
cayvie (1): ashersky
Dsell (1): Jorbles
ftl (1): cayvie
Galzria (1): Watno
jotheonah (1): ftl
Robz888 (1): shraeye
shraeye (1): Captain_Frisk
Voltaire (1): Robz888

Not voting (4): Archetype, Galzria, Insomniac, Voltaire

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

Lynch deadline: Monday, October 8, 5:00pm MDT

Please do let me know if something seems amiss.

I voted for no lynch...

Ha! Not even an option, apparently. XD

[Galzria]

I like a Robz lynch. He's basically asking to be allowed into the endgame without contributing early on the basis that "I'm good as town there!".

That's quite simply the single most ridiculous thing I've heard. Put another way:

What merits would being allowed to coast through the early game grant town?

What merits would being allowed to coast through the early hasn't grant scum?

The first not only grants no benefit to your faction through the value of your insights, but it also directly harms your faction by not allowing them to gain any insights on you.

The second, obviously, has a plethora of advantages as scum.

This game is not won as town by choosing who to leave alive until the end D1, it's won by the town (as a whole, as a unit) making informed (albeit often wrong) decisions and learning from them, and to that end everybody is more or less useless D1, and more valuable in later days. Robz doesn't exactly own a trademark on that. It's the nature of getting more information as the game goes on.

Would scum Robz be so bold as to play this way so visibly and flaunt it around? He'll say no. I say I don't know. I say a better question is would town Robz openly and visibly play terrible and unhelpful hoping it gets him through? That to me has a resounding "no".

Vote: Robz

[Dsell]

I don't think I'm ready to put a vote there yet, but Robz' argument for giving nothing day 1 was indeed pretty terrible.

Everyone gets better as the days go on. Day 1 is tough for everybody in the town.

[eHalcyon]

I'm gonna try this...

FOR EHAL!

VOTE: NO LUNCH!

Noon came and went.  Although all the others partook in the repast that magically appeared on the four long tables in the kitchen (directly below the tables in the Great Hall), Insomniac decided to abstain.  "No lunch for me", he cheered with great gusto.

Somewhere in the castle, a wayward teaching assistant incorrectly cast a chrono-acceleration spell.  Before a professor could cast the counter-charm, seasons had passed.  Again and again, Insomniac sat by the tables as food appeared and disappeared.  "No lunch, thanks," he would say.  "I just don't feel like eating today."

Slowly but surely, he wasted away.  Except "slowly" had become "almost immediately".

Insomniac has died from malnutrition.  He was a ---

Then, one of the professors finally got around to casting the counter-charm.  With the help of a fresh time-turner, everything was put back in place, as if nothing of import had happened at all.

That was a close one!

[Robz888]

Woah woah woah woah. We are certainly putting the horse before the cart here. Or whatever. The other way around? (I've never assembled a half-horse half-cart monster before).

I didn't say I refuse to contribute, or that I will never contribute, or that I don't see value in contributing, or that I deserve to be in the end regardless. I was simply explaining that in the past I have behaved a bit differently in bastard/role madness games. I will say something more useful today, jeez.

[Insomniac]

+1 for flavour...I'll spell it right this time
Vote: No Lynch

[eHalcyon]

Vote Count 1.4*

ashersky (3): jotheonah, Eevee, Dsell
cayvie (1): ashersky
Dsell (1): Jorbles
ftl (1): cayvie
Galzria (1): Watno
jotheonah (1): ftl
Robz888 (2): shraeye, Galzria
shraeye (1): Captain_Frisk
Voltaire (1): Robz888

No Lynch (1): Insomniac**

Not voting (2): Archetype, Voltaire

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

Lynch deadline: Monday, October 8, 5:00pm MDT




* Oops, the previous count was 1.3, not 1.2.
** If you expected something special to happen, sorry to disappoint.  My views of RMM no lynching will not influence anything here.  OR WILL THEY?  Probably not.

[Galzria]

I'm gonna try this...

FOR EHAL!

VOTE: NO LUNCH!

Noon came and went.  Although all the others partook in the repast that magically appeared on the four long tables in the kitchen (directly below the tables in the Great hall), Insomniac decided to abstain.  "No lunch for me", he cheered with great gusto, "It's much too exciting around here to eat!"

Somewhere in the castle, a wayward teaching assistant incorrectly cast a chrono-acceleration spell.  Before a professor could cast the counter-charm, seasons had passed.  Again and again, Insomniac sat by the tables as food appeared and disappeared.  "No lunch, thanks," he would say.  "I just don't feel like eating today."

Slowly but surely, he wasted away.  Except "slowly" had become "almost immediately".

Insomniac has died from malnutrition.  He was a ---

Then, one of the professors finally got around to casting the counter-charm.  With the help of a fresh time-turner, everything was put back in place, as if nothing of import had happened at all.

That was a close one!

I fixed your flavor so that the capital letters of the first paragraph spell "Nagini". You were almost there. Had to drop an H and add an I. But at first glance I thought I might've been on to something!

[cayvie]

I fixed your flavor so that the capital letters of the first paragraph spell "Nagini". You were almost there. Had to drop an H and add an I. But at first glance I thought I might've been on to something!

...wow

[eHalcyon]

I fixed your flavor so that the capital letters of the first paragraph spell "Nagini". You were almost there. Had to drop an H and add an I. But at first glance I thought I might've been on to something!

It warms my heart to see players looking at everything through the eyes of a conspiracy theorist.

[Galzria]

I fixed your flavor so that the capital letters of the first paragraph spell "Nagini". You were almost there. Had to drop an H and add an I. But at first glance I thought I might've been on to something!

It warms my heart to see players looking at everything through the eyes of a conspiracy theorist.

Constant Vigilance!

[Jorbles]

+1 for flavour...I'll spell it right this time
Vote: No Lynch

What are the arguments for No Lynch in RMM games and how do they differ from the usual arguments?

[Dsell]

+1 for flavour...I'll spell it right this time
Vote: No Lynch

What are the arguments for No Lynch in RMM games and how do they differ from the usual arguments?

It gets us to night faster, and night is typically where a lot of the action is gonna happen in a Role Madness game. However, I don't think it's a good idea to just rely on night actions to let the town win because I don't think we can win a well-designed game by just relying on night actions (barring some really good luck for the town/bad luck for the mafia).

[Insomniac]

+1 for flavour...I'll spell it right this time
Vote: No Lynch

What are the arguments for No Lynch in RMM games and how do they differ from the usual arguments?

That the night actions get a chance to work and then you can use the night actions to direct your actions on day 2.

[eHalcyon]

+1 for flavour...I'll spell it right this time
Vote: No Lynch

What are the arguments for No Lynch in RMM games and how do they differ from the usual arguments?

It gets us to night faster, and night is typically where a lot of the action is gonna happen in a Role Madness game. However, I don't think it's a good idea to just rely on night actions to let the town win because I don't think we can win a well-designed game by just relying on night actions (barring some really good luck for the town/bad luck for the mafia).

Who says this game is well-designed?

Since this is a topic I actually have a strong opinion about, I'll give my reason for why I like no-lynch in RMM games.  In short, the day 1 lynch is important in regular games because it is a major source of information.  You have all this discussion, all these accusations and defenses -- that first flip is important to help contextualize everything else.  Plus info on the people on the wagon itself, of course.

In RMM, however, there is potentially another big source of info -- night actions.  Since everyone has a role, RMM means that a lot can happen overnight.  A lot of info can come out from actions.

But IMO, that doesn't mean that day 1 should be cut short.  It just means that there is actually a meaningful evaluation to be made regarding the day 1 lynch -- is it worth risking the mislynch for the extra info, or will the night bring enough info that it's better not to (in all likelihood) kill a townie?  Not lynching is a risk in itself, because maybe the night won't turn up much usable info.

There is no solid answer to this question though, and I believe there are players much better than me who would argue strongly against no lynch, even in Role Madness.

I make no comment on whether no lynch is a good idea in this particular setup.

[Jorbles]

+1 for flavour...I'll spell it right this time
Vote: No Lynch

What are the arguments for No Lynch in RMM games and how do they differ from the usual arguments?

That the night actions get a chance to work and then you can use the night actions to direct your actions on day 2.

So we give up a lot of the info from D1, but gain the info from a night of actions. We presumably don't mislynch someone D1, but presumably still lose someone (or sometwo) that night. Hmmm I'll defer to group wisdom on it. If everyone's on board then sure.

@Dsell, your response to my accusations has so far been to ignore them. This reads like scum waiting for it to blow over to me, though it's possible I am tunneling. Care to comment?

[Insomniac]

+1 for flavour...I'll spell it right this time
Vote: No Lynch

What are the arguments for No Lynch in RMM games and how do they differ from the usual arguments?

That the night actions get a chance to work and then you can use the night actions to direct your actions on day 2.

So we give up a lot of the info from D1, but gain the info from a night of actions. We presumably don't mislynch someone D1, but presumably still lose someone (or sometwo) that night. Hmmm I'll defer to group wisdom on it. If everyone's on board then sure.

@Dsell, your response to my accusations has so far been to ignore them. This reads like scum waiting for it to blow over to me, though it's possible I am tunneling. Care to comment?

Well you are gonna lose X people night 1 regardless* of whom you lynch d1. So you lose one less person and get information from Night Kills, Night Actions and you can still gain information from people talking on D1. I'm not suggesting that we end the day now to just get on with the nght at all, I wanted to make sure people know that I decided I strongly support no lynch this game. I do not think we should end the day yet at all there is much discussion to be had.

*Barring an extremely lucky SK (or equivelant) lynch D1

[Dsell]

+1 for flavour...I'll spell it right this time
Vote: No Lynch

What are the arguments for No Lynch in RMM games and how do they differ from the usual arguments?

That the night actions get a chance to work and then you can use the night actions to direct your actions on day 2.

So we give up a lot of the info from D1, but gain the info from a night of actions. We presumably don't mislynch someone D1, but presumably still lose someone (or sometwo) that night. Hmmm I'll defer to group wisdom on it. If everyone's on board then sure.

@Dsell, your response to my accusations has so far been to ignore them. This reads like scum waiting for it to blow over to me, though it's possible I am tunneling. Care to comment?

Your accusations of what I did were not wrong, you're simply misinterpreting them as scummy. Yes, I was sheeping jo's read to put a bit more pressure on Ashersky, who I agreed was doing something ridiculous (forming a wagon on cayvie for a joke). No, that doesn't make me scum.

It would be ridiculous for you to have tunnel-vision at this point in the game. I've made maybe 10 comments? Tunneling at this point is crazy and anti-town, so I really hope you aren't for real.

[ftl]

Let's not do no lynch. It IS possible to hit scum d1, as robz's mafia proved!

[ashersky]

Your accusations of what I did were not wrong, you're simply misinterpreting them as scummy. Yes, I was sheeping jo's read to put a bit more pressure on Ashersky, who I agreed was doing something ridiculous (forming a wagon on cayvie for a joke). No, that doesn't make me scum.

It would be ridiculous for you to have tunnel-vision at this point in the game. I've made maybe 10 comments? Tunneling at this point is crazy and anti-town, so I really hope you aren't for real.

Did I actually form a wagon, though?  Is one vote a wagon?  I voted for something I thought looked scummy.  That's all I did.  If that had shot up to four or five votes, sure, or even three votes (like on me currently), but one vote?  I think Shraeye joined for a bit, but dropped.  That's all.  Am I the only one who thinks everyone else is overreacting to my original vote?

@insom: I would lean toward lynch, not no lynch, for D1, if we can get a consensus.

[Insomniac]

@ftl & ash: I'm not necessarily saying we have to no lynch either like if someone looks really scummy lets lynch em but I'm not gonna worry about deadline coming up if we don't have a good lynch I can't see myself jumping on a bad wagon.

[ftl]

Fair enough. If we wind up with something like 1 votes on everyone, then we'll end up no-lynching. Still, we should try to push for a lynch if we can.

Robz, what do you think about lynch/no lynch in this game?

[Dsell]

Your accusations of what I did were not wrong, you're simply misinterpreting them as scummy. Yes, I was sheeping jo's read to put a bit more pressure on Ashersky, who I agreed was doing something ridiculous (forming a wagon on cayvie for a joke). No, that doesn't make me scum.

It would be ridiculous for you to have tunnel-vision at this point in the game. I've made maybe 10 comments? Tunneling at this point is crazy and anti-town, so I really hope you aren't for real.

Did I actually form a wagon, though?  Is one vote a wagon?  I voted for something I thought looked scummy.  That's all I did.  If that had shot up to four or five votes, sure, or even three votes (like on me currently), but one vote?  I think Shraeye joined for a bit, but dropped.  That's all.  Am I the only one who thinks everyone else is overreacting to my original vote?

@insom: I would lean toward lynch, not no lynch, for D1, if we can get a consensus.

Unvote. I was going for your reaction, mostly, but also making a statement that that vote, and subsequent mini-wagon, were terrible.

[ashersky]

So I went back to read the freaking flavour again...

What's the Fire Nation?  It was struck out.

Also, that whole defense of house elves seemed to be like a defense of lurkers in mafia games, didn't it?  Just found that sort of ironic.