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[Voltgloss]

has anyone ever played with cults before? what do you do about them? how do they behave differently from ordinary town/mafia?

1. yes
2. terminate with extreme prejudice
3. if they live through Day 1 they usually win

I wish I were joking.

There was a cult in Role Madness 1.  Galz was the leader and accidentally gobbled up all of the scum.  I don't know what we learned from it.

I guess we learned not to do it again.

[ehunt]

has anyone ever played with cults before? what do you do about them? how do they behave differently from ordinary town/mafia?

1. yes
2. terminate with extreme prejudice
3. if they live through Day 1 they usually win

I wish I were joking.

There was a cult in Role Madness 1.  Galz was the leader and accidentally gobbled up all of the scum.  I don't know what we learned from it.

I guess we learned not to do it again.

i mean, it's either mod-confirmed that there's a cult or eevee just pulled the craziest gambit of all time.

[Galzria]

There was a cult in Role Madness 1.  Galz was the leader and accidentally gobbled up all of the scum.  I don't know what we learned from it.

I didn't 'accidently' do anything. I was certain on 3 scum, was suspicious of another, and was half-right on the last. The only scum I didn't know was Insomniac. He read trustworthy to me.

[eHalcyon]

There was a cult in RMMI.  This was not a regular cult, because the recruits did not share a wincon with the cult leader.  Additionally, there were multiple ways in which the cult could be disbanded, including if the cult leader managed to win.

There was a cult in RMM2.  This was not a regular cult, because the cult leader had a night kill and all the recruits kept their original powers.  As should be expected, they completely dominated the game.

A regular cult is bad news.  It would be closer to RMM2 than RMMI.  Even without a night kill and other powers, cults will grow out of control.  I expect that there will be a twist to the cult, if it exists, or else this game will be very much Bastard.

[ehunt]

I'm sort of annoyed at Galz for taking the discussion out-of-thread. That kind of leaves me no choice but to believe he's legitimate about his anti-lurking status, but it hardly seems like fair play.

fos at jotheonah over this. in MVI there was, mid day one, a stern warning from moderator O that we weren't to analyze role PMs. shortly thereafter, jo realized he could implicate galzria because galzria had unwittingly implied that galzria wasn't a vanilla townie because galzria had asserted that a vanilla townie's role pm would be boring. jo was a vanilla townie in that game, but he knew that the role PMs included flavor text "names" e.g. jo was a peddler in that game. so jo outed his role title of peddler and mentioned that there was flavor text to argue that galzria wasn't town (in fact it turns out that galz wasn't scum that game but had a power role). i think there was some rules-related ruckus about this, but in the end jo wasn't modkilled.

the point: i think it's weird that jo is angry at galzria for skating on the boundaries of the rules in a way that helps town (separately, i don't think galzria is skating on the boundaries of the rules - outside sources are inevitable in a forum setting) when jo had no problem doing this as a townie.

[ehunt]

(clarification: I don't think it's scummy to call out questionable behavior (questionable from a rules/ethics perspective) that helps town. I just think it's weird that jo in particular is doing it. Separately, I don't think either of these incidents are cheating, although I did worry that jo was going to get modkilled in MVI (worry because he was obvtown and I wanted to send him a letter that evening, which was my role in that game).)

[jotheonah]

I felt quite bad about that incident and have vowed to avoid similar things in the future. I got excited about having caught what I thought was a scumslip and posted without thoroughly checking the rules.

I'm sorry about being pissy at Galz earlier today. I really would be sad if he ragequit forum mafia forever. But also, I need to stay off forum mafia when I'm in an IRL bad mood, I would advise that for anyone.

In other news...

Eevee, I think someone asked before, but it's important we know (you have said you're bad at reading your PM in the past): Is there any possible explanation other than a cult for your role PM? Does it specifically refer to a cult or to an anti-town faction that can recruit? Recall when I said I was sure we had werewolves and it turned out we were being trolled in BMMM - it seems like any game Robz was in is fair game for Robz's setup.

[ehunt]

and like myself neither of you will follow that rule.

ibgtennis - i forgot to answer your post voting for me (you're suspicious that I flip-flopped on my one-a-day strategy and am posting more). Conveniently, Insomniac breadcrumbed my answer for me before the game even started (I'm quoting him above): I have no self-control and can't stay away from mafia. If you don't believe me, read MVI where about fifty times I say "I have to do work and am not coming back for six hours" and then come back in like two. Or read MIX as I'm dying where I think I say at least twice "this will be my very last post because I have to go, you guys vote for O omg omg" and end up posting fifty times more.

the other argument, and my only evidence here is my own experience but I suspect this really applies to everyone: it's not scummy to want to appear town. Of course scum want to appear town, but town also wants to appear town. Everyone wants to appear town. Town PRs may want to appear slightly less town, but they still don't want to appear like scum and get daykilled (or be forced to expose their PRs). Now if someone is trying too hard to appear town and seems unnatural, that's a scumtell. But changing behavior when others tell you your behavior is coming across as scummy I don't think is a scumtell.

For instance, in MVIII, toward the beginning of day three, I was posting too much, short phone-posts and yuma was like "dude, you seem like scum. stop posting these short phone-posts" in so many words. And so I did. And sure enough, the ehunt-wagon died. Yuma was town and so was I. He was just giving me a heads up. Likewise, a bunch of folks here were like, yo, don't tell me to post one-a-day, and also, you need to be around to answer questions and stuff. And so I did.

[ehunt]

I felt quite bad about that incident and have vowed to avoid similar things in the future. I got excited about having caught what I thought was a scumslip and posted without thoroughly checking the rules.

I'm sorry about being pissy at Galz earlier today. I really would be sad if he ragequit forum mafia forever. But also, I need to stay off forum mafia when I'm in an IRL bad mood, I would advise that for anyone.

In other news...

Eevee, I think someone asked before, but it's important we know (you have said you're bad at reading your PM in the past): Is there any possible explanation other than a cult for your role PM? Does it specifically refer to a cult or to an anti-town faction that can recruit? Recall when I said I was sure we had werewolves and it turned out we were being trolled in BMMM - it seems like any game Robz was in is fair game for Robz's setup.

tangent in spoilers as it's not relevant to this game tl;dr I did not mean to shame you over the incident, and I don't think you should feel bad. I just meant to say it's a change in behavior for you.

It is never clear to me how much of a role PM you can legally talk about. For example, if you're a doctor, everyone says "I'm a doctor!" Is that the same as quoting your role PM? Of course not, but you're quoting the title, which is what you did in MVI. So I didn't think at the time that you were cheating, just possibly summoning the wrath of O (which I really really did not want, from a strategic perspective, since you were my best letter target, especially as we had sort of been buddying up D1 that game anyway).

As it turns out, your actions only made it worse for town, not better (although you couldn't have known this). In retrospect, I (and others) should have realized that Galz was probably town because if he were scum then O should have modkilled you. If we had done this, I think something unfair would have occurred.

[Grujah]

Hi. There was a huge MTG/AGOT playfest so I was inactive. Also will be till end of the week as I got a tempjob at beerfest.


Read some of what I missed, scimmed most.
What struck me as odd was cayvie proclaiming that for some game reason he will be laying low on votes, than votes on yuma in the next posts, and than votes and unvotes O in next few.
Pretty careless for somebody who "won't be joining wagons", esp as those were starting to grow at the time.

Ashersky also struck a weird nerve of being wagon-jumpy-friendly, but I admit I scimmed and I will have to recheck this, I'm going to sleep now.

@Gloob - I voted cuz you just seemed standard-issue scumGlob that I've met in MIV. Your play here was exact mirror from MIV, and similar to MVI.
Bad thing is I don't have a townGloob to comare with.

Blah. Unvote

[Grujah]

Actually, why not:

vote: cayvie

[ftl]

Presumably, Robz has balanced his cult if he's put one in. He's played in enough games, including ones with cults, to avoid any clearly crazy balance issues, though there might be more subtle balance issues. A cult is possible, if you look at his opening post he does mention "Cult" as a possibility when listing all the possible roles.

Or maybe he's just trolling Eevee, after Eevee turned out to be a seer in a game with no werewolves in the BMMMMMMMMMMM

...also, everyone seems to have skipped over shraeye's Watno case again. Shraeye, maybe because you don't have a vote on it? The case somehow feels like it's not very serious if even you yourself don't find it convincing enough to justify placing a vote. Especially since the end of your last post, again, reads not like "I think Watno is scum" but as "I think Watno's town but not doing a very good job, here's some pointers for how to play better!"

[ehunt]

Actually, why not:

vote: cayvie

I think your vote is based on a misinterpretation of cayvie's post about her role. I don't want to argue the finer points of this.

[Grujah]

Actually, why not:

vote: cayvie

I think your vote is based on a misinterpretation of cayvie's post about her role. I don't want to argue the finer points of this.

I'm obviously missing something.
unvote

[O]

I felt quite bad about that incident and have vowed to avoid similar things in the future. I got excited about having caught what I thought was a scumslip and posted without thoroughly checking the rules.

I'm sorry about being pissy at Galz earlier today. I really would be sad if he ragequit forum mafia forever. But also, I need to stay off forum mafia when I'm in an IRL bad mood, I would advise that for anyone.

In other news...

Eevee, I think someone asked before, but it's important we know (you have said you're bad at reading your PM in the past): Is there any possible explanation other than a cult for your role PM? Does it specifically refer to a cult or to an anti-town faction that can recruit? Recall when I said I was sure we had werewolves and it turned out we were being trolled in BMMM - it seems like any game Robz was in is fair game for Robz's setup.

tangent in spoilers as it's not relevant to this game tl;dr I did not mean to shame you over the incident, and I don't think you should feel bad. I just meant to say it's a change in behavior for you.

It is never clear to me how much of a role PM you can legally talk about. For example, if you're a doctor, everyone says "I'm a doctor!" Is that the same as quoting your role PM? Of course not, but you're quoting the title, which is what you did in MVI. So I didn't think at the time that you were cheating, just possibly summoning the wrath of O (which I really really did not want, from a strategic perspective, since you were my best letter target, especially as we had sort of been buddying up D1 that game anyway).

As it turns out, your actions only made it worse for town, not better (although you couldn't have known this). In retrospect, I (and others) should have realized that Galz was probably town because if he were scum then O should have modkilled you. If we had done this, I think something unfair would have occurred.

The irony is that is provided more incentive for scum to kill townspeople instead of their own, which is why I modkilled nobody (I thought it would actually work against the town's interests that they attempted what they did). And if scum had played well, maybe it would have..

[Galzria]

This town is never gonna get 13 votes in one place.

[O]

This town is never gonna get 13 votes in one place.

nobody likes my ehunt wagon, the chums.

[Galzria]

This town is never gonna get 13 votes in one place.

nobody likes my ehunt wagon, the chums.

I thought he was somewhat suspicious until this last round of posting by him, specifically his responses to ibgtennis, which read very town to me.

[jotheonah]

This town is never gonna get 13 votes in one place.

nobody likes my ehunt wagon, the chums.

I was all about it, but my heart just isn't in it anymore.

[ibgtennis]

and like myself neither of you will follow that rule.

ibgtennis - i forgot to answer your post voting for me (you're suspicious that I flip-flopped on my one-a-day strategy and am posting more). Conveniently, Insomniac breadcrumbed my answer for me before the game even started (I'm quoting him above): I have no self-control and can't stay away from mafia. If you don't believe me, read MVI where about fifty times I say "I have to do work and am not coming back for six hours" and then come back in like two. Or read MIX as I'm dying where I think I say at least twice "this will be my very last post because I have to go, you guys vote for O omg omg" and end up posting fifty times more.

the other argument, and my only evidence here is my own experience but I suspect this really applies to everyone: it's not scummy to want to appear town. Of course scum want to appear town, but town also wants to appear town. Everyone wants to appear town. Town PRs may want to appear slightly less town, but they still don't want to appear like scum and get daykilled (or be forced to expose their PRs). Now if someone is trying too hard to appear town and seems unnatural, that's a scumtell. But changing behavior when others tell you your behavior is coming across as scummy I don't think is a scumtell.

For instance, in MVIII, toward the beginning of day three, I was posting too much, short phone-posts and yuma was like "dude, you seem like scum. stop posting these short phone-posts" in so many words. And so I did. And sure enough, the ehunt-wagon died. Yuma was town and so was I. He was just giving me a heads up. Likewise, a bunch of folks here were like, yo, don't tell me to post one-a-day, and also, you need to be around to answer questions and stuff. And so I did.

All this makes sense of course. Obviously people want to appear town. It was just trajectory in which you came to be at the heavy-posting stage you are. And maybe you are addicted to this...I'll have to take your word for it. I wasn't around for the old games and it's tough for me to relate as I obviously don't post as much as you. So, i'll over an Unvote

Ultimately, I voted you out of convenience. I can't stress enough how much I feel that this RVS is b.s.. Maybe it's because I'm just a newbie, but I find it just about impossible to get a legitimate, evidence-base scum-claim when nothing has happened, especially given that I struggle to follow conversations about previous games and how it might apply here.

guys voting for Axxle, Axxle posted about his V/LA in the V/LA thread. Axxle shouldn't be on the list of lurkers just like Young Nick shouldn't.

Agreed about Axxle. He doesn't read particularly scummy to me, and I would think that revealing a double-vote, intuitively at least, seems more town than scum.

I'll be V/LA this coming weekend. But I'll see what I can do.

[Insomniac]

There was a cult in Role Madness 1.  Galz was the leader and accidentally gobbled up all of the scum.  I don't know what we learned from it.

I didn't 'accidently' do anything. I was certain on 3 scum, was suspicious of another, and was half-right on the last. The only scum I didn't know was Insomniac. He read trustworthy to me.

Is it because when pressured I immediately told you I was chancellor?

[Galzria]

There was a cult in Role Madness 1.  Galz was the leader and accidentally gobbled up all of the scum.  I don't know what we learned from it.

I didn't 'accidently' do anything. I was certain on 3 scum, was suspicious of another, and was half-right on the last. The only scum I didn't know was Insomniac. He read trustworthy to me.

Is it because when pressured I immediately told you I was chancellor?

It's because you never read scummy to me. Seriously, outside of RMM-I and BM-V, have I ever seen you as scum?

[Insomniac]

There was a cult in Role Madness 1.  Galz was the leader and accidentally gobbled up all of the scum.  I don't know what we learned from it.

I didn't 'accidently' do anything. I was certain on 3 scum, was suspicious of another, and was half-right on the last. The only scum I didn't know was Insomniac. He read trustworthy to me.

Is it because when pressured I immediately told you I was chancellor?

It's because you never read scummy to me. Seriously, outside of RMM-I and BM-V, have I ever seen you as scum?

MIX

[Galzria]

There was a cult in Role Madness 1.  Galz was the leader and accidentally gobbled up all of the scum.  I don't know what we learned from it.

I didn't 'accidently' do anything. I was certain on 3 scum, was suspicious of another, and was half-right on the last. The only scum I didn't know was Insomniac. He read trustworthy to me.

Is it because when pressured I immediately told you I was chancellor?

It's because you never read scummy to me. Seriously, outside of RMM-I and BM-V, have I ever seen you as scum?

MIX

Yeah, but you died N1 there as usual...

Then again, as scum, I gotta give you props on that.  But yeah, you never read scummy to me.

[Robz888]

Vote Count 1.13

shraeye (2) -- Axxle
ehunt (2) -- O, Jotheonah
O (2) -- shraeye, TheMunch
Glooble (1) -- yuma
TheMunch (1) -- Captain_Frisk
Grujah (3) -- Glooble, Eevee, Morgrim7
yuma (1) -- Voltaire
Voltaire (2) -- Insomniac, ehunt
cayvie (1) -- ftl
Axxle (1) -- cayvie
Captain_Frisk (1) -- Watno

Not Voting (9) -- Young Nick, eHalcyon, Voltgloss, Cuzz, Dsell, Galzria, ashersky, Grujah, ibgtennis

With 25 alive it takes 13 to lynch. Day 1 deadline is Saturday, September 29th at 1:00 PM (EDT)

CLARIFICATION: Someone raised the issue of how much mod-supplied information a player is allowed to reveal. The answer is of course all of it, you just can't quote your PM directly. You may explain the contents of your role PM so long as you do not COPY them. If you are unclear of what counts as copying, consider sending me a PM containing the exact post you wish to make. I am happy to tell you whether it is permissible to post it. This is the safest thing to do; I will mod-kill rules violators without remorse, but am happy to answer questions on that matter or any other if asked in PM form.