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[eHalcyon]

I always get a town vibe from cayvie, and it's usually correct.  The one time I got a bad vibe from her, she was scum*.  I'm still neutral on cayvie (weirdness is weird) but in that position I prefer to let her be.  I like having cayvie around because she is usually the hillariousest**.  Not to mention, I believe she was quite liberal with her vote in the first game I played with her (MVI I think) and she was town there.

* RMM2, cayvie was cult leader with a NK.  I got a bad vibe and there were reasons to be suspicious, but I didn't press hard enough and she managed to lie her way out of it (with some help from Galz, I think).  That game was nuts.

** take that, shraeye!

Oh, and she's a rather smart cookie.  See BMV end game.

[shraeye]

Shraeye, did you mean to vote Watno in your post http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=4412.msg108623#msg108623 ?  Because you voted O and then posted a case against Watno, unless I'm misreading you. So I'm confused, was that post supposed to justify your O vote somehow, or is your O case that you spend two lines on still stronger than your Watno case?

Nope, I meant to vote O.  The vote on O with subsequent explanation and the case against watno are two seperate thoughts in the same post.  My vote on O will stay there until he starts contributing to scumhunting.  He needs to post up some analysis, take a side on some issues, give explanations for his summaries of discussions that he doesn't feel like contributing to (meaning he doesn't have to jump into the voltaire/ehunt debate, but if he's gonna say that Aire reads town and ehunt reads scummy, explain why).  Unless he does this, he's avoiding letting anyone get extra information on him based on not doing anything substantiative. 

There are "bad actions" you can make as town, such as pushing for a lynch (or actually lynching) somebody who also turns out to be town.  Not only is this badfor your team, but now you (also town) are taking heat for it.  But that's the risk that I'm willing to pay for trying to make a correct lynch, or getting good read on people.  If you're unwilling to do anything committal, as O is, you certainly avoid making bad actions, but you also preclude any chance of doing good things.  And at the end of the day, nobody has any extra information on you, who you supported and who you suspected.  O is doing literally nothing that is helping town, or even trying to help town.  That's terrible strategy as town, and why I'm 100% behind lynching him until his behavior changes.

The case on Watno needed a good summary, and needed to come to people's attention, but I still want to lynch worthless-O more than scummy-watno.


That being said, I still am actively scumhunting instead of tunnelling in on O.  Hence the content about watno.

[ashersky]

@yuma o the lurking issue--not to take sides, but I don't think it is helpful to town to not offer up your opinions and insights when you have them.  And if you have none, you aren't very helpful (or fun).  So, don't lurk.

[yuma]

@yuma o the lurking issue--not to take sides, but I don't think it is helpful to town to not offer up your opinions and insights when you have them.  And if you have none, you aren't very helpful (or fun).  So, don't lurk.

what?

[yuma]

@yuma o the lurking issue--not to take sides, but I don't think it is helpful to town to not offer up your opinions and insights when you have them.  And if you have none, you aren't very helpful (or fun).  So, don't lurk.

what?

nevermind, I figured it out; I thought for a bit that all the "you" in your sentence were direct to me in that I was lurking and not offering opinions and insights

[Morgrim7]

Here's your Morgrimlist:
1. Ftl: Votes for lurkers. Townish read.
2. Voltgloss: Also votes for lurkers. Not so bad
3. Eevee: So Eevee thinks I'm scummy. What else is new.
4. Grujah: Not acting normal at all. FoS: Grujah
5. Insomniac: Not much of a read
6. Glooble: Not acting normal either. Maybe because he isn't scum this time?
7. Dsell: Not much action.
8. Jotheonah: Active, but doesn't want to lynch lurkers
9. Young Nick: Poor guy
10. Voltaire: Eevee is fuzzy. Cayvie has that funny signature.
11. Axxle: doesn't suspect yuma
12. O: Arrrg really agrivating!
13. Cayvie: acting normal
14. Shraeye: not so bad, now that i realized about the sarcasam
15. Cuzz: no read
16. Yuma: Could be scum, I'm still ok with lynching them
17. igbtennis: no read
18. TheMunch: no read
19. Morgrim7: hi
20. EHalcyon: normal
21. Watno: no read
22. Galzria: Not much action
23. Captain_Frisk: no read
24. ehunt: could be scum
25. ashersky: no read

[cayvie]

4. Grujah: Not acting normal at all. FoS: Grujah
6. Glooble: Not acting normal either. Maybe because he isn't scum this time?

care to elaborate on these?

[yuma]

4. Grujah: Not acting normal at all. FoS: Grujah
6. Glooble: Not acting normal either. Maybe because he isn't scum this time?

care to elaborate on these?

care to elaborate on all of the above?

[eHalcyon]

12. O: Arrrg really agrivating!

...which is normal.  There you go, O. I am making the "he's O" argument for you.

[yuma]

b]Vote: Morgrim7[/b], but interested in pursuing Glooble and Grujah too. So sad I can only vote for one guy.

Eevee I don't think Robz caught your Morgrim vote in his last vote count, likely due to the formatting...

[Eevee]

I re-read Morgrim, actually wrote a post about his behavior here, but finally came to the conclusion it doesn't look like he is mafia after all. Could be the cult, could be a serial killer, but don't think his behaviour is mafia-like. So Unvote even though my vote never got recorded.

Moving onto my next target, Vote: Grujah. I picked Grujah over Glooble because this also serves as a prod to get Grujah posting. Glooble is a very close 2nd in the suspicions-list.

[cayvie]

Moving onto my next target, Vote: Grujah. I picked Grujah over Glooble because this also serves as a prod to get Grujah posting. Glooble is a very close 2nd in the suspicions-list.

I get Glooble, why Grujah?

[O]

I do not find glooble scummy.

[Eevee]

Grujah's activity in this game this far (grand total of five posts):

Big pile of his personal opinions of everyone's general playstyle. Not that I mind him posting this, but scum-Grujah would have no trouble at all compiling this one. Tells us absolutely nothing about his alignments in this game.

Actually, Voltgloss is way more throughout/therille/whatever-the-word-i-want is than Galz, now that I think of it.

What I mean by that is..

He goes to read things that happened and reads everything and considers everything and so. Maybe that goes under elaborate as well.

Also, Volt is against no-lynch, thats he's meta too.

4. Grujah - Hates Morgrim.

OMG, where did you get this from?
I've never even voted Morgrim aside from that Frisk's silly BMV. (ok, it is true that he was conf townie to me once, but I didn't go against him at all in IX, for example). I just didn't udnerstand his game from before, but aside from that, I like the guy.

I find any votes based solely on shar's "I got caught" straight-out bad. It was obvious sarcasm, when you read the whole thing (sentence before) as a whole. Bolding just the part that makes him look scummy without whole content is scummy.


That being said, vote: Glooble. He is acting just like he acts always as scum! He comes out of lurk with a vote on a established wagon. Classic Globscum.

Yeah, I just quoted all but one of Grujah's posts in this game, and that one post was - while entertaining to read - just a big pile of IIoA. And Grujah is usually a pretty active guy too. If we are going to go after lurkers, I think Grujah is clearly the choice - he has posted rarely (which is unlike him) and, when he has posted, he has said exactly one thing relevant to this game (his suspicion of Glooble, which I for the record do find justified.. but also rather easy, he can't really be blamed for that vote if Gloob flips town at some point).

[Eevee]

I do not find glooble scummy.

How is Glooblemaister playing different from the million games where he was scum? Or are you saying he is, but that's not scummy to you?

[Robz888]

Vote Count 1.11

shraeye (2) -- Axxle
ehunt (3) -- O, Jotheonah, ibgtennis
O (5) -- ashersky, shraeye, TheMunch, Watno, Galzria
Glooble (1) -- Grujah
TheMunch (1) -- Captain_Frisk
Grujah (2) -- Glooble, Eevee
yuma (2) -- Voltaire, Morgrim7
Voltaire (2) -- Insomniac, ehunt
cayvie (1) -- ftl

Not Voting (7) -- Young Nick, eHalcyon, Dsell, yuma, Voltgloss, Cuzz, Cayvie

With 25 alive it takes 13 to lynch. Day 1 deadline is Saturday, September 29th at 1:00 PM (EDT)

[cayvie]

I don't think I'm voting for anyone right now, Robz.

[Robz888]

I don't think I'm voting for anyone right now, Robz.

Yeah I think I forgot to put you in the Not Voting category after you voted and unvoted O. I fixed this in the latest vote count.

[Morgrim7]

Thanks Eevee, for elaborating on Grujah. Gloob: He hasn't posted as much, and it seems like he is trying to help the town...but wait...he does that every game...shoot now i'm confused...

[ehunt]

Just a theory argument: in the presence of a cult, if you have mod-confirmed information that somebody is town, you probably shouldn't disclose it, even if you are about to be lynched (the problem being that you create obvtowns... who then aren't town anymore). Does anyone disagree?

[ehunt]

also, will be V/LA this weekend.

[Eevee]

Just a theory argument: in the presence of a cult, if you have mod-confirmed information that somebody is town, you probably shouldn't disclose it, even if you are about to be lynched (the problem being that you create obvtowns... who then aren't town anymore). Does anyone disagree?

ugh this is probably true. cults are very annoying!

[ehunt]

Just a theory argument: in the presence of a cult, if you have mod-confirmed information that somebody is town, you probably shouldn't disclose it, even if you are about to be lynched (the problem being that you create obvtowns... who then aren't town anymore). Does anyone disagree?

ugh this is probably true. cults are very annoying!

on the other hand, if they're about to be lynched, that's a different story. then you should share, I think (and the next day whoever is alive should just keep in mind that alignments can change).

[jotheonah]

I know people find mind-changing really scummy, so bear with me here.

I've been trying to set aside my contrarianism and my general appreciation of O's playstyle to see if this "We need to change the meta on lurking" argument is one I should be landing on the other side of.

So, here is what I would like to hear a response about from Galzria, ehunt, and whomever else wants to pseudo-policy lynch O:

One of the best ways to catch scum from Day 2 onward is by looking at wagons. My big hangup on a lurker lynch, or any policy lynch, is that it's too safe a wagon to get on. Say we lynch O. Say he flips town. Then what do we really learn from an O wagon full of people who shrug their shoulders and say "Lynch all Lurkers, man."?

[cayvie]

I know people find mind-changing really scummy, so bear with me here.

I don't! I don't think too many people do either, really.