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[Insomniac]

Now that the wine is out of the way, I just want to emphasize this game should get way more active. No lynch is a terrible god awful idea.

[eHalcyon]

Now that the wine is out of the way, I just want to emphasize this game should get way more active. No lynch is a terrible god awful idea.

Why?  This is role madness.  I think it is worth waiting to see what happens over the night.  I actually think it would be a decent idea for everyone to full claim.  In RMMI, everyone full claiming on day 1 would have put scum in a difficult spot.  It was (very swingily) balanced by Masquerade -- if everyone full claimed, the strongest roles could quickly be stolen.

We have no idea what is in store for us in the night.  I am OK with waiting to find out, and possibly full claiming on day 2 depending on night events.

[Insomniac]

Now that the wine is out of the way, I just want to emphasize this game should get way more active. No lynch is a terrible god awful idea.

Why?  This is role madness.  I think it is worth waiting to see what happens over the night.  I actually think it would be a decent idea for everyone to full claim.  In RMMI, everyone full claiming on day 1 would have put scum in a difficult spot.  It was (very swingily) balanced by Masquerade -- if everyone full claimed, the strongest roles could quickly be stolen.

We have no idea what is in store for us in the night.  I am OK with waiting to find out, and possibly full claiming on day 2 depending on night events.

You have said before that full claiming in RMM1 would have been bad, and as scum in that game if everyone full claimed I would have GLADLY stolen the best powers.

[Captain_Frisk]

Didn't the mod also confirm in RMM1 that full claiming would be bad because it would be less fun?

[Dsell]

*rubs temples*

Ok I KNOW I was scum in the last RMM mafia when I was all against massclaiming but seriously that's a BAD idea. It's not like we want to break the game open anyway. Some people will just lie.

[Dsell]

pingpongsam, I would like to hear your exact reasons for why you believe Galzria and Insomniac to be scum. It seems like over the course of a couple pages you went from being suspicious to being TOTALLY SURE that they're scum. So like, why?

[eHalcyon]

*rubs temples*

Ok I KNOW I was scum in the last RMM mafia when I was all against massclaiming but seriously that's a BAD idea. It's not like we want to break the game open anyway. Some people will just lie.

Some people will lie, but if no townies lie it will be fine.  We may be able to catch liars.  Just reiterate that townies should not lie.  timchen and Grujah lying in RMMI == bad.  In some cases it may be OK to omit.  For example, Robz in RMMI managed to keep his double voting powers a secret until the very end, and that was a good thing.  But no lying.

I am also not saying that we should full claim.  I'm just saying that I think it is a decent option and would be happy to see it happen.  Earlier is probably better for catching scum.

Unvote

Vote: No Lynch

In a regular game you want to lynch on day 1 so you have something to analyze and discuss on day 2.  In role madness, day 1 lynch is less important because there will probably be a plethora of night events and results to discuss instead.

[Dsell]

Ok YES. DON'T LIE PEOPLE.

[Cuzz]

Why would you be the favored NK?

Because I've directly fingered 2 Mafia.

I agree with Dsell. Coming across a wagon on you and having this much certainty about two of the people voting for you seems scummy. That and the self-vote. And the whole, "I'll be busy until Tuesday" thing, I mean how do we even know he has a real life?? (ok, kidding about that one).

I'll also put out a FoS: Eevee for this nonsense:

I thought PPS had more votes than that on him, maybe I overreacted. To avoid getting pinned as his scumpartner in the unlikely event he actually is scum: Vote: PPS
I don't particularly believe in this lynch but this is the only way I don't look like his scumbuddy derailing the lynch for wrongful reasons so..

[pingpongsam]

pingpongsam, I would like to hear your exact reasons for why you believe Galzria and Insomniac to be scum. It seems like over the course of a couple pages you went from being suspicious to being TOTALLY SURE that they're scum. So like, why?

Well, my reasons have been stated. At that point in time they were simply suspicions. It was their responses to the suspicions that convinced me. Go back and read from the point that I voted Galzria. Consider yourself in my shoes as Town. All of the responses to me came across as Mafia playing an easy lynch. It still is an easy lynch, it's just been spoiled for them is all. Go ahead and drive the lynch home so I can flip town and then it will be easily read as such.

Somebody has to die D1. It's always a Town mislynch and Town always feels sick about being misled. Well, there's no misleading here. Vote me and know you're lynching Town and know who was eager to make it happen to begin with. The only way I get off my own wagon is if one happens to form on Galzria or Insomniac.

To recurse:

I suspected Galzria from the point he jumped onto the wagon I started on Eevee.

I suspected Insomniac from the point he voted me for even mentioning the possibility that Morgrim might have reasons for inviting votes upon himself.

I also suspect Axxle but he's been smart enough to avoid the latest activity. He's done nothing to confirm or deny suspicion. He did join the wagon on me once Frisk laid down a vote. He shortly moved to Theorel, though.

eHalcyon is the only person I see taking a rational scumhunt Town approach to my case.

When Eevee was undecided with my wagon containing Galzria, Insomniac, eHalcyon, Robz888, Frisk and a freshly absent Axxle it was Galzria who immediately rose to coaxing him to place the vote. He was driving the wagon.

the interchange betwixt me and Eevee is admittedly scummy but I dare say it isn't Mafia at all. However, let us look at who is making the case that it must be Mafia and not just a scummy situation. Insomniac painted the picture by reversing his vote over to Eevee. A practical vote for Mafia in this situation as the PPS wagon still has enough steam to get back on if needed but the Eevee/PPS fiasco is an easy lynch either way.

I pointed this very fact out quite blatantly with intention to see who of the Insomniac/Galzria pair were the scummier. turns out, they both reacted as pure Mafia should. Galzria tried to dissauade the reader that he wasn't joinging a rolling wagon on Eevee because he'd voted Eevee twice already but those were just prime the pump votes that could be excused as RVS but could also work in this case to justify a firm vote on Eevee. Witht he wagon switching to me he wanted to twist my words every which way to justify his position on my wagon. I am most convinced Galzria is scum.

Insomniac, although much more subtle is still playing the Mafia game and not the bold but scummy Town play. Called on this fact he declares it a non-sequitur. Again we see the dismissal of my response explicitly asked for. It's the classic set up a response so I can twist it play that only a Mafia does. Town may setup a response but it's for analysis not twisting to an agenda. I admit his followup responses come across as less easy to spot but it is still consistent with driving the wagon and not taking into consideration the possibility that the lynch is coming onto a fellow Townie.

[Dsell]

Vote: eHalcyon

Not a fan of the no-lynch idea.

[Dsell]

PPS, I don't see it. I think your idea of lynching you and then lynching them is preposterous. Especially day 1.

[Galzria]

PPS, I don't see it. I think your idea of lynching you and then lynching them is preposterous. Especially day 1.

There's a reason you don't see it. His statements simply aren't accurate, and he refuses to quote anything because he knows his statements aren't backed up by what happened. See:

It is worth noting that I asked Galzria to explain joining my wagon and his response involved things that transpired after he voted for me and thusly he has avoided answering the question.

Actually, it didn't. My reasons were compounded upon by events that happened after, as was noted in the very post you just failed to quote in your accusation:

Galz' 1st vote on Eevee was immediately rescinded as teasing.

His second vote on Eevee was a joke vote in mock retaliation for voting Voltgloss.

Now, the 3rd vote may not be entirely inconsistent with this pattern but it sure is awfully convenient and also fits the pattern of joining the wagon on me once that one got rolling.

My vote over wanting to withhold information. Just because it was rescinded does not make it any less serious.

And I voted for you because a statement such as "vote for me, bad things happen - don't vote, bad things happen - do nothing, bad things happen - nk me, bad things happen" - while maybe said in "jest" Carries some serious "I dare you" vibes. Those sort of vibes are put out by scum.

Also, I liked your scumslip in accusing me of bandwagoning Eevee, then you, saying "He doesn't care which townie dies, as long as a townie dies " - Care to explain how you know Eevee is a townie?

[eHalcyon]

Vote: eHalcyon

Not a fan of the no-lynch idea.

...and that's vote-worthy?  I gave rationale.  What good does a lynch do us today?  It gives us something to talk about day 2, but we should have that anyway.  If you disagree, make a case.



@PPS -- I was not on your wagon, per se.  I voted for you at one point to see if the mod was messing with my votes somehow, because a vote count was incorrect.  I don't know how many people were voting for you when I did, but there was a vote count back there where I was the only one voting for you.

[Dsell]

We can't lynch mafia if we don't lynch. There's a first time for everything! And we have a bandwagon to analyze, etc etc the usual arguments. They aren't so bad. I like the way your game did it, with the first lynch sort of not counting. But whatever. We really can't rely on night actions. I mean, we can do that and see where it takes us, but that's no fun.

[pingpongsam]

The base question is simple; Do you think the wagon on PPS is town about to lynch Mafia or do you think it may be elsewise? If you think elsewise then how do you consider the position of those who state they are town about to lynch Mafia?

[Dsell]

The base question is simple; Do you think the wagon on PPS is town about to lynch Mafia or do you think it may be elsewise? If you think elsewise then how do you consider the position of those who state they are town about to lynch Mafia?

People have been wrong on day 1 before.

[Dsell]

The base question is simple; Do you think the wagon on PPS is town about to lynch Mafia or do you think it may be elsewise? If you think elsewise then how do you consider the position of those who state they are town about to lynch Mafia?

People have been wrong on day 1 before.

...and it doesn't make them mafia.

[eHalcyon]

We can't lynch mafia if we don't lynch. There's a first time for everything! And we have a bandwagon to analyze, etc etc the usual arguments. They aren't so bad. I like the way your game did it, with the first lynch sort of not counting. But whatever. We really can't rely on night actions. I mean, we can do that and see where it takes us, but that's no fun.

This could be the first game where we don't mislynch on day 1!

Your position is fine.  I don't think mine is wrong either.  I don't think the benefits of a lynch today outweigh the drawbacks.  We don't know enough about night actions to know whether we can rely on them or not.  I think it is safer to wait and see than to (probably) mislynch.

You still haven't given a reason for voting for me.

[Insomniac]

We can't lynch mafia if we don't lynch. There's a first time for everything! And we have a bandwagon to analyze, etc etc the usual arguments. They aren't so bad. I like the way your game did it, with the first lynch sort of not counting. But whatever. We really can't rely on night actions. I mean, we can do that and see where it takes us, but that's no fun.

This could be the first game where we don't mislynch on day 1!

Your position is fine.  I don't think mine is wrong either.  I don't think the benefits of a lynch today outweigh the drawbacks.  We don't know enough about night actions to know whether we can rely on them or not.  I think it is safer to wait and see than to (probably) mislynch.

You still haven't given a reason for voting for me.

False. no lynch occured in another on going game on this forum

[Dsell]

Meh. It's day 1, I don't need that much of a reason.

Honestly, our traditional ways of doing things don't work for catching scum day 1. Since this is a bastard game, it's the perfect opportunity to lynch someone who is not someone we would ordinarily lynch day 1.

P.S. They no-lynched in MVIII on day 1. That game is ongoing and I'm not following it, but as far as I know, no scum has yet died. PPE: yeah Insom referenced this.

[ftl]

Just catching up with my thoughts on the last few pages.

Eevee's reactions are still confusing to me. Would be okay with that lynch.

Pingpongsam... well, it's as good a lead as we're going to get D1. Either he's scum in which case we should lynch him, or he's town with strong reads in which case we should sheep him. I don't get the scumreads on Galz and Insomniac that he does, though. Insomniac worked through his post restriction, I know I voted for him at the time but I don't think he's been scummy since he actually started being able to post.  PPS responded to pressure by accusing his accusers and then by self-voting. Both are bad play but neither have been consistent scumtells on f.ds. I think I trust Insomniac/Galz more than PPS. What are we at? I want to vote for pps but I don't want to put him at hammer or L-1.

Dsell, you say you don't want no lynch, but you haven't exactly been preventing it from happening! Had you even voted for anyone before voting for eHalc for wanting no lynch? ...way back at the start of the day, you voted for eHalc *again*, back then for his post restriction. Maybe we should put you on the spot. Who would you prefer to lynch and why? Or are you just scum who wants to push for a lynch, any lynch, but don't want to be the one actually doing the lynching?

False. no lynch occured in another on going game on this forum

Which game was that and how did it work out there? (I'm not following the games I'm not in very much anymore...)

[pingpongsam]

he refuses to quote anything because he knows his statements aren't backed up by what happened.

I suspected Galzria from the point he jumped onto the wagon I started on Eevee.

10 to lynch? Vote: Fuzzy.

I suspected Insomniac from the point he voted me for even mentioning the possibility that Morgrim might have reasons for inviting votes upon himself.

Vote: Pingpongsam

I also suspect Axxle but he's been smart enough to avoid the latest activity. He's done nothing to confirm or deny suspicion. He did join the wagon on me once Frisk laid down a vote. He shortly moved to Theorel, though.

Where the hell is PPS?  He's lurking harder than me.

Vote: PingPongSam

Vote: PingPongSam

Vote: Theorel

When Eevee was undecided with my wagon containing Galzria, Insomniac, eHalcyon, Robz888, Frisk and a freshly absent Axxle it was Galzria who immediately rose to coaxing him to place the vote. He was driving the wagon.

I don't have any read on PPS (how could I lol). He has been quiet, but he said he'd be V/LA and tons of other people have been quiet too. Like Morgrim. So, while I certainly would normally prefer lynching someone I don't have a read on over nolynching, PPS wagon got off FAST. People were jumping on it left and right. So so many people, it's hard to believe they'd all be town, right? Is that not worth being worried about?

If they were all random or first time voters, maybe. But this is the third time Axxle has voted for him, and second for Insomniac I believe. They've been making a case and pointing out scummy behavior for awhile. And it takes 10 to lynch. At the very least, with an encroaching deadline, it's a fine place to start imo.

Insomniac painted the picture by reversing his vote over to Eevee.

Actually I think I'll even Vote: Eevee over it.

I pointed this very fact out quite blatantly with intention to see who of the Insomniac/Galzria pair were the scummier.

Eevee play was scummy but is not Mafia. Insomniac play is a safe Mafia play for voting on a scummy looking player. Galzria play is Mafia play for joining whatever Town wagon is rolling. Take your pick.

Galzria tried to dissauade the reader that he wasn't joinging a rolling wagon on Eevee because he'd voted Eevee twice already but those were just prime the pump votes that could be excused as RVS but could also work in this case to justify a firm vote on Eevee.

When you make your arguments, you should do some research first. I had actually cast my vote for Eevee twice in the game prior to you coming along. Was it there when you cast yours? No. Was I happy to see that wagon forming? Obviously. So what did I do? Omgobvscum! I revoted for someone I already thought had done scummy things! Wow! Shocker!

Galz' 1st vote on Eevee was immediately rescinded as teasing.

His second vote on Eevee was a joke vote in mock retaliation for voting Voltgloss.

Now, the 3rd vote may not be entirely inconsistent with this pattern but it sure is awfully convenient and also fits the pattern of joining the wagon on me once that one got rolling.

Witht he wagon switching to me he wanted to twist my words every which way to justify his position on my wagon.

Also, I liked your scumslip in accusing me of bandwagoning Eevee, then you, saying "He doesn't care which townie dies, as long as a townie dies " - Care to explain how you know Eevee is a townie?

I don't know anyone's alignment except my own. My statement was a characterization of you not of Eevee. You, being Mafia, do know that those wagons you are joining are town wagons. That is the characterization that I was communicating.

... Yeah, not buying it.

Insomniac, although much more subtle is still playing the Mafia game and not the bold but scummy Town play. Called on this fact he declares it a non-sequitur.

Thats the most non-sequitur argument I've heard in a long time. I might as well say you and eevee are obv scumbuddies because you both derailed the wagon on the other super close to the deadline.

I admit his followup responses come across as less easy to spot but it is still consistent with driving the wagon and not taking into consideration the possibility that the lynch is coming onto a fellow Townie.

Vote: Morgrim7 Pingpongsam

You know what mafia has reservations about, getting lynched D2. If you flip town and I drove your wagon, then the town will for sure be after my head. Also You haven't proven that you care if your lynched D1 your so far from being lynched. You're just flailing to try and get someone else lynched instead of you.

There, all quoted, so shut up about how I can't back it up. It's not my fault everyone else is too damned lazy to read and remember what is going on. Being able to exhaust yourself making the quotes doesn't mean the guy who expects people to actually play the game is lying.

[Captain_Frisk]

Which game was that and how did it work out there? (I'm not following the games I'm not in very much anymore...)

Its M8.  Can't say more.

[eHalcyon]

PPS, a mess of quotes doesn't make your arguments easier to follow.

Why are almost all the quotes but your own unlinked?

Quoting is important because it keeps you accountable and gives context.  Not everyone has a good memory, and some people are in a bunch of games.