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Author Topic: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenges #5 and #6!  (Read 57651 times)

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Davio

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenges #5 and #6!
« Reply #50 on: July 20, 2012, 02:22:02 am »
0

Geez, this is going to take some time.
A lot of the cards are so similar yet slightly different.

Also, I wouldn't look at the card's costs too much, this is something that is pretty hard to gauge without actual play, but also something easily fixed after a couple of plays. I'm going to focus more on subtle effects I feel. :)
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iangoth

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenges #5 and #6!
« Reply #51 on: July 20, 2012, 02:34:41 am »
+1

Quote
Chaplin
$4 - Action
+3 Cards
+1 Action
Put two cards from your hand on top of your deck.
Seems weak when compared to Courtyard.  You lose a card in exchange for an action, and the loss of the card (this keeps your hand at 5 cards) probably makes the action less valuable.

...

Quote
Robeson
$4 - Action
+4 Cards
+1 Action
Put 3 cards from your hand on top of your deck.
Courtyard variant.  I like Courtyard more.

I think you misunderstand both of these cards. Neither would play even slightly like courtyard. Courtyard is really a terminal draw card that lets you set up your next turn a bit. These cards are cantrips designed mainly to be engine support, and I think both have more in common with warehouse (because they let you see a ton of cards and pick what you want. Especially good for things like connecting your village and terminal draw) and cartographer (because they let you see ahead into your deck and order them). Of course, the fact that these cards don't sift like a warehouse or cartographer should change the way they play and feel substantially.

Another way to look at it--Chaplin and Robeson let your retroactively optimize your shuffle luck.

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zahlman

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenges #5 and #6!
« Reply #52 on: July 20, 2012, 03:20:42 am »
+2

(Warning: this post consists of extremely disorganized musing.)

We unsurprisingly have a lot more variety in interesting mechanics this time around (IMO), and along with that (also unsurprisingly) more cards that are just broken, clearly mispriced, or seem hard to price accurately.

One bit of brokenness I felt like highlighting:

Quote
Betty
$4P - Action
+2 Cards
Trash any number of cards. If they are all:
Action cards: Gain a Duchy.
Treasure cards: Gain a [This Card].
Victory cards: Gain a Gold.

By a strict reading, and by the usual axioms of set theory, I can choose to trash nothing, and gain all three.

Robeson is strictly better than Chaplin, and I like the idea, but I'm having trouble deciding which is fairer for the $4 price point. The weird part that I *didn't* expect is that this is the first time we've had one submission strictly better than another at the same cost (that I've noticed, anyway).

I'm also surprised how few of the TFB cards offer +Buy, especially ones with potential to raise huge amounts of cash.

Quote
Hedy- Chapel is already one of the best cards in Dominion. Raising the price to 4 doesn't justify making it unstoppable.

Hedy still wouldn't see much use past the early game in normal situations, but consider that Chapel/Silver is a viable opening on many boards, and Hedy/Silver wtfpwns that.

I initially misread Mildred completely, and was gearing up for a rant about Turn 3 ridiculousness :/

Some of these cards offer potentially really interesting combos, and will do weird things when Throned or Kinged. (And then, some others are basically completely resistant to the effect of TR/KC.) Interesting stuff includes

* KC-KC-Spy-Beery-Beery, my topdecked Curse becomes a Colony, or my topdecked Colony lets me trash 6 Colonies from the Supply.
* TR-Ethel: an Estate in hand becomes a Gold and a Duchy.
* KC-Brook: you can put down cards, then return them, then put them down again, with the net effect that your third +Card is of your choosing from the original 5. But otherwise, this card almost certainly plays like a 1-shot super-Chapel that doesn't let you choose between Coppers and Estates (unless you want to waste time trying again putting crap back into your improved deck and then pray to drop something better) and doesn't become a dead card. Honestly, actually, I think it's already kind of broken because of that usage.

And finally:

Quote
Seems weak.  You'd only want to gain good cards, but sacrificing them to gain one on your deck seems weak.  I don't like it for $5.  Maybe discard forge, gain KC?  Discard Gold, gain Goons?  But the discard penalty is still harsh.

Nonononono. Discard Witches, gain Caches. Gotta go with the memes. ;)
« Last Edit: July 20, 2012, 03:24:00 am by zahlman »
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Powerman

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenges #5 and #6!
« Reply #53 on: July 20, 2012, 07:22:08 am »
0

Quote
Chaplin
$4 - Action
+3 Cards
+1 Action
Put two cards from your hand on top of your deck.
Seems weak when compared to Courtyard.  You lose a card in exchange for an action, and the loss of the card (this keeps your hand at 5 cards) probably makes the action less valuable.

...

Quote
Robeson
$4 - Action
+4 Cards
+1 Action
Put 3 cards from your hand on top of your deck.
Courtyard variant.  I like Courtyard more.

I think you misunderstand both of these cards. Neither would play even slightly like courtyard. Courtyard is really a terminal draw card that lets you set up your next turn a bit. These cards are cantrips designed mainly to be engine support, and I think both have more in common with warehouse (because they let you see a ton of cards and pick what you want. Especially good for things like connecting your village and terminal draw) and cartographer (because they let you see ahead into your deck and order them). Of course, the fact that these cards don't sift like a warehouse or cartographer should change the way they play and feel substantially.

Another way to look at it--Chaplin and Robeson let your retroactively optimize your shuffle luck.

Good points.  Fine then, these seem like weaker versions of warehouse or cartographer, and Chaplin seems like a much weaker version of Robeson.
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iangoth

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenges #5 and #6!
« Reply #54 on: July 20, 2012, 07:47:27 am »
0

Robeson is strictly better than Chaplin, and I like the idea, but I'm having trouble deciding which is fairer for the $4 price point. The weird part that I *didn't* expect is that this is the first time we've had one submission strictly better than another at the same cost (that I've noticed, anyway).

I think there were a few others. In the terminal draw challenge, kennel (cost $5, +6 cards, lose your next turn) was strictly worse than captain (cost $5, +3 cards, You may draw up to three additional cards. For each card drawn this way, discard a card at the end of your clean-up phase. [this was my card, incidentally]). In the peddler variant challenge, there were like half a dozen variants of +1 card, +1 action, +$1, trash a card. Surely some were strictly better than the rest.


Quote
Chaplin
$4 - Action
+3 Cards
+1 Action
Put two cards from your hand on top of your deck.
Seems weak when compared to Courtyard.  You lose a card in exchange for an action, and the loss of the card (this keeps your hand at 5 cards) probably makes the action less valuable.

...

Quote
Robeson
$4 - Action
+4 Cards
+1 Action
Put 3 cards from your hand on top of your deck.
Courtyard variant.  I like Courtyard more.

I think you misunderstand both of these cards. Neither would play even slightly like courtyard. Courtyard is really a terminal draw card that lets you set up your next turn a bit. These cards are cantrips designed mainly to be engine support, and I think both have more in common with warehouse (because they let you see a ton of cards and pick what you want. Especially good for things like connecting your village and terminal draw) and cartographer (because they let you see ahead into your deck and order them). Of course, the fact that these cards don't sift like a warehouse or cartographer should change the way they play and feel substantially.

Another way to look at it--Chaplin and Robeson let your retroactively optimize your shuffle luck.

Good points.  Fine then, these seem like weaker versions of warehouse or cartographer, and Chaplin seems like a much weaker version of Robeson.

Overall, I would guess warehouse is better overall than either of these cards, but then again, warehouse is a pretty damn good card. Robeson could easily be better overall than cartographer (which is solid, but pretty expensive for a support card). Robeson/Chaplin should be different enough from warehouse and cartographer that you can't just call it a weaker version of either, though.

You're right, Chaplin is definitely strictly worse than Robeson. If I had to guess, I'd say Robeson is a strong $4 and Chaplin would be better priced at $3. These things are hard to judge without playtesting, though, so I could be way off.
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brokoli

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenges #5 and #6!
« Reply #55 on: July 20, 2012, 09:25:17 am »
0

About Challenge #5

Here are my favourite cards. There are a lot of interesting and well balanced cards, but I prefer originality.

Quote
Fairbanks
$3 - Action
+$2
You may put a card from your discard pile on top of your deck.

Usually, I don't like the "look through your discard pile" effect, because it takes time to play. But this one is simple but subtle.

Quote
Laurel
$5 - Action
Look at the top 4 cards of your deck. Discard any number of them. Put the rest back on top in any order.
+1 Card for every card discarded.

Very interesting idea, a mix of Cartographer and Oracle, I like it.

Quote
Mix
$4 - Action
+$2
Reveal the top 4 cards of your deck. Trash the Curses, discard the Victory cards, place all Actions on the top of your deck in any order, place all Treasure cards on the bottom of your deck in any order.

A strong $4 I guess. A nice curse trasher, and I love the idea of separating actions and treasures.

Quote
Chase
$2 - Action
Look at the top 4 cards of your deck.  Reveal and discard up to 3 of them.  Put the rest back in any order.  If you revealed an..
Action card, +1 Card
Treasure card, +1 Action
Victory card, +$1

Attractive pawn variant. Seems alright.

Quote
Ford
$3 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
Look at the top 5 cards of your deck.  Discard all duplicates.  Put the rest back on top in any order.
--
(Rules clarification:  You discard cards that are duplicates of other revealed cards, not cards that are duplicates of cards in your hand.)

Nice for coppers and maybe estates but a little bit risky. It makes engines more viable without trashing. I like the synergy with cornucopia cards.

Quote
Novello
$5 - Action-Attack
+3 Cards
Each player (including you) with 4 or more cards in hand puts a card from his hand on top of his deck.

The missing link beetween torturer and Ghost ship. I'm not a fan of attacks, but this one sounds great.
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One Armed Man

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenges #5 and #6!
« Reply #56 on: July 20, 2012, 11:57:06 am »
0

Keaton
A self-countering attack, cool. I feel like the power level is off for this one. Placing a Gold on top of your deck isn't better than +2$. Placing a King's Court or Platinum might be, but that doesn't happen much.

Fairbanks
The reason Dominion doesn't have this ability yet is because the reshuffle leaves you with no discard pile. It is often drawn pretty weak.

Chaplin
As nice as getting an amazing hand and topdecking your Victory cards is and as nice as this is at streamlining an engine, if you are using that extra action to draw, this card essentially replaces itself. Seems okay

Valentino
+$2 if you discard no Victory cards or $2 if you discard say 1 out of 2? The many parts don't go together well.

Lloyd
This sets up an engine or ensures you get whatever card you want. This can get you a VP card every other turn even after greening like Tactician. The problem/ best plan is if you chain these so that you are able to stuff a Lloyd and 4 junk cards on the top of your deck every turn (in a non-draw engine deck), you can effectively "Island" them. A lot of choices are available when putting 5 cards back, up to (10*9*8*7*6)~ 30000 of them. Seems okay without its obvious pairings (Minion, Non-terminal draw, FG, Conspirator).

Gilbert
"In its place" needs to be reworded as "You may gain a Treasure card costing up to the value of the card you discarded; put it on top of your deck." This nearly always gives you a Silver (copper as an opener). I would like a version that gives you a choice of cards more. I like that it benefits you discarding your better cards to balance the mechanic.

Langdon
Like an Ambassador that draws a card, doesn't give you a choice about it and can only return 1, or a self-Jester. Topdecking Hunting Parties would be fun.

Linder
As a Village Attack, this would often be bought a lot, so I could imagine there could be 3to 5 swap occasions per reshuffle. It is exploiting "missing the reshuffle" as a weak attack. As you potentially look at 8 cards, I'd like an others-only version (this version is like Oracle). seems okay.

Laurel
You could just discard everything and draw 4 cards or keep one or two Gold. That is about all I see this doing.

Hardy
I don't personally like this kind of card (Apothecary, Scout) for their randomness. If you open two of these or get one with an early +Buy, you can draw HHCCC+CCC+EEE, you can get an early Gold and immediately shuffle. It is a very strong card, but would instantly be really weak if it cost 3. Mid game, you need to combine this with draw or other filtering, which is fine.

Hart
Hiding cards? In multiples, you don't have to reshuffle. A new Chancellor that prevents Estates from being in your new hand. Seems fun.

Mix
Not many other cards trivialize Cursers as much, this would be up there with Trader.

Dix
Lets try a midgame top-5 cards. Gold (Silver Terminal) (Copper Estate). It replaces itself with a good card that isn't drawn dead, gets rid of cards like Cartographer does. It is very strong, but fun. It needs to say "Discard two of those cards".

Barrymore
I like seeing my hand so I can plan my turn. I don't want to slow the game down.

Jannings
As balanced as this could be, I try to ignore alternate Curses. (Purposes can't be intensive, Powerman)

Veidt
I don't want to shuffle in the middle of my turn.

Stroheim
I don't want to discard my deck with a non-terminal. If I draw 2 more cards, I need to shuffle again.

Arbuckle
+2 cards seems weak for this kind of this effect. Seems okay.

Chase
Betelguese  from the first challenge. It only did fairly.

Fields
The simplest version of a reverse Fortune Teller. It would be better if it said "up to 1" since you can discard a Estate and get a bad feeling from it being the only card in your discard. Seems okay with that change.

Carey
I don't like a reaction this expensive. It sucks when IGG or Sea Hag Curses have slowed you to the point where you can't get to $6. Otherwise okay if all the text fits comfortably on a card.

Rogers
The closest parallel this card has is actually Masquerade. It draws 2 less cards, doesn't let opponents trash and doesn't force a card on the top of your deck. This might be too strong, since it combines elements from Bishop, Courtyard, and Masquerade.

Gibson
This often draws 80% of your deck, discards all your estates (to be shuffled in the Cleanup step), plops another Gibson/Action on your deck, then buys a 6-cost with a hand of Silver&4coppers. This is too strong, often better than Vault, and combines too well with non-draw Villages.

Hersholt
Maybe called "Investment", oddly you want to discard/trash for benefit your Gold. Discourages buying normal Gold. Seems fun.

Farrell
A card that fights discard attacks. You can discard nothing or everything, but it is too much like a non-terminal Navigator. I initially thought that it let you keep one or two good cards in your Minion-proof hand.

Reid
Needs to say "put them back in any order" and "Action cards" (yes, I know it would be so amazing if you used +3 Actions to put this after a Black Market). So you engine goes "Village, TerminalDraw, Village, Reid to simulate a Cartographer, then draw 2 cards, Terminal Money, and you probably have the cash you need.  If you have to start with this, then it does a bad Farming/Native Village impersonation. Seems fun.

Colman
I initially read this as "draw until you have at least 3 cards." Do you regulate it by saying you can't look at one and decide whether or not you continue? Why doesn't this just say "draw 3 cards"? You only want to put back unnecessary Treasure or Reactions or Actions you can't use (maybe a Curse if you see a Masq/Montebank coming or Province/Tournament). Seems okay.

Ford
The rules clarification can be part of the card text "Reveal the top 5 cards of your decks. Discard all cards that have the same name as any other cards you reveal." Seems like a filtering/ordering Menagerie, which is okay.

Murray
I keep all the Grand Markets! Seems fun, maybe could have a second +Action tacked on. It is a weak opener, do you name Copper if you have the other card you bought in your hand?

Beery
$5 - Action
+1 Action
Trash the top card of your deck.
Gain a card costing up to $2 more than the trashed card; put it on your deck.
Wow, that is an original concept to me!Curse->(2 cost, Copper, Estate), 2->4, 3->5, 4->6, 5->5/6/7, 6/7->8, 8->8/9, etc. Fun.

Novello
Seems redundant with Ghost Ship. I like it, but that might deflect some votes.

Hayakawa
Great Hall doubled with a lot of parts. Looking at the top 6 seems too strong compared to Harem.

Powell
This is a Chancellor. You can't get the Gold you wanted until next turn. Almost always (except Platinum games), weaker than Silver.

Robeson
A stronger Chaplin. As nice as getting an amazing hand and topdecking your Victory cards is and as nice as this is at streamlining an engine, if you are using that extra action to draw, this card essentially replaces itself. Too strong.

Meighan
Too weak. Needs +2 cards or +1 coin, +1 buy.

Brook
You can get lucky and put 3 Victory/Curse and 2 coppers and never use this card again. I wouldn't want to use this for anything else.

Nagel
My favorite trash-to-something reaction so far, but seems too weak for non-trash games, since this is like an Explorer. Seems fun.

Maynard
Great for getting the last province, weak for anything else, since you would have drawn those cards eventually.

Karloff
This decision seems obvious most of the time. Compare this to Apprentice, Lab, Trader, and Spice Merchant. I wouldn't like to reveal a Gold and be forced to discard it. Seems okay.

Jones
Too much shuffling!

Krauss
Seems strong. Chains together so easily if you have something to discard. It is best countered by itself.

Chaney
I would rather it let you get cards at the same cost, but the only concern for that is doubling a province. I wouldn't be that worried about making this a consilation prize, (at 4)

Finlayson
Too strong. +4 cards, put 4 back might be fun.

Menjou
Compared to Dix, it discards 1 less and draws 1 more. That makes it too strong.

Gowland
This is a mostly improved (no risk) Lookout. Why is it a Duration?

Schreck
Get a 2nd 2-cost for an Estate? Weaker than workshop. Discard a Shreck to get a Lab. Why not just have 2 Labs?
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Polk5440

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenges #5 and #6!
« Reply #57 on: July 20, 2012, 12:14:25 pm »
0

Quote
Gilbert
$5 - Action
+1 Buy
Reveal and discard the top card of your deck.  In its place, you may gain a Treasure costing up to the value of the card you discarded.
Weak, weak, weak.  Good (basically) if and only if you discard a Province to gain a gold, but even that compared to Explorer is nothing special.  Most of the time you'll gain a silver, which is worse than Bureaucrat.

Err, alt treasure? I can see this being awesome with Venture, Bank, and potentially useful with FG

Also, note "up to" in the text. You can turn over any $6 card (Gold, Goons, Farmland, etc.) and gain a gold even in games that do not have alt treasure.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenges #5 and #6!
« Reply #58 on: July 20, 2012, 12:35:14 pm »
+1

Quote
Chaplin
$4 - Action
+3 Cards
+1 Action
Put two cards from your hand on top of your deck.

Robeson
$4 - Action
+4 Cards
+1 Action
Put 3 cards from your hand on top of your deck.

Not to rain on people's parade, but I know from my own fan card experience that this kind of card has issues. Chaplin is probably balanced at $4, power-wise, and Robeson is likely to powerful. But the real issue is that, especially at $4, people will tend to buy a bunch of these. Hands that have a bunch of these go: Draw 3, put 2 back, draw 3, put 2 back, draw 3, put 2 back, etc. That gets really tedious for both the people waiting and even the person playing them.

Maybe it's fine in this sort of fan expansion that only Dominion fanatics will play, but it's not a great card for casual players.
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blueblimp

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenges #5 and #6!
« Reply #59 on: July 20, 2012, 01:38:58 pm »
0

Quote
Chaplin
$4 - Action
+3 Cards
+1 Action
Put two cards from your hand on top of your deck.

Robeson
$4 - Action
+4 Cards
+1 Action
Put 3 cards from your hand on top of your deck.

Not to rain on people's parade, but I know from my own fan card experience that this kind of card has issues. Chaplin is probably balanced at $4, power-wise, and Robeson is likely to powerful. But the real issue is that, especially at $4, people will tend to buy a bunch of these. Hands that have a bunch of these go: Draw 3, put 2 back, draw 3, put 2 back, draw 3, put 2 back, etc. That gets really tedious for both the people waiting and even the person playing them.

Maybe it's fine in this sort of fan expansion that only Dominion fanatics will play, but it's not a great card for casual players.
Thanks for this note. It's a simple enough concept, so this must be why there's no official card that does this.
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rinkworks

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenges #5 and #6!
« Reply #60 on: July 20, 2012, 01:53:50 pm »
0

Quote
Chaplin
$4 - Action
+3 Cards
+1 Action
Put two cards from your hand on top of your deck.

Robeson
$4 - Action
+4 Cards
+1 Action
Put 3 cards from your hand on top of your deck.

Not to rain on people's parade, but I know from my own fan card experience that this kind of card has issues. Chaplin is probably balanced at $4, power-wise, and Robeson is likely to powerful. But the real issue is that, especially at $4, people will tend to buy a bunch of these. Hands that have a bunch of these go: Draw 3, put 2 back, draw 3, put 2 back, draw 3, put 2 back, etc. That gets really tedious for both the people waiting and even the person playing them.

Maybe it's fine in this sort of fan expansion that only Dominion fanatics will play, but it's not a great card for casual players.
Thanks for this note. It's a simple enough concept, so this must be why there's no official card that does this.

I can vouch for the long playing time this kind of card can produce.  I play with a terminal Silver version (draw 3, put 3 back).  It's workable since it's terminal and hard to stack (and you wouldn't want to anyway, since it doesn't replace itself in your hand), but it takes time to decide what 3 out of (usually) 7 cards to return, and I'm not sure I'd want to publish the card for that reason.  Probably because there are just so many possible ways to play it:  7 choose 3 is 35.  Compare with Pawn, a notorious AP card which only has 6 possible ways to play.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2012, 08:56:56 am by rinkworks »
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nopawnsintended

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenges #5 and #6!
« Reply #61 on: July 20, 2012, 02:40:27 pm »
0

Quote
Jannings
$3 - Treasure-Curse
Worth +$2
You may trash one action card you have in play immediately. If you do, gain a Gold on your deck.
--
Worth -1 VP
--
(Rules clarification: This is a Curse as well as a Treasure. It is a kingdom card and does not replace the Curse pile. It may be gained by a player from cursing attacks instead of a regular Curse. It may be revealed and discarded as a Curse as a response to Mountebank.)
REALLY strong.  I mean, when this is on the board, Witch becomes the worst card on the board.  The biggest thing with curses is NOT the -1 VP, it's the deck clogging.  This is a silver for all intensive purposes, plus it can trash weak actions (ie. cellar) for a topdecked gold?  Plus, confusing.  Ie. With torturer, does both this pile and the regular curse pile need to be empty for you not to gain a card?  Can you gain this into hand?  Torturer then reads:  Each opponent gets +$2.

As I read the card, once the Jannings pile runs out, you start picking up the regular deck-clogging curses.  In multiplayer, this could happen quickly because Jannings is a kingdom card and only has 10 in the supply whereas curses increase with the number of players.  Hence, this could be very strong in 2P, but weaker in 3P or 4P games.

I think this card compares favorably to Trader.  Although Trader isn't guaranteed to be in your hand for the reveal, it is great against Mountebank, Witch and Torturer... essentially slowing these attacks down and gaining a silver in their place (which helps with the inevitable deck clog). 

Also, Ambassador could still dole out the regular curses and there's nothing Jannings can do about it.  There are some attack boards for which this curse typing card is strong, and others where is less strong.
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nopawnsintended

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenges #5 and #6!
« Reply #62 on: July 20, 2012, 03:42:31 pm »
0

Given the large number of cards, I'm going to just comment on the ones I like (disclaimer: one of the cards is mine).  In this post, I'll talk up the deck-improvers:

Fairbanks
$3 - Action
+$2
You may put a card from your discard pile on top of your deck.

Depending on where you are in your shuffle, this could be very powerful.  No discard pile ==> no special power.


Quote
Chaplin
$4 - Action
+3 Cards
+1 Action
Put two cards from your hand on top of your deck.
With the top decking, this would go great with Menagerie... possibly turning into a power draw combo.

Quote
Gilbert
$5 - Action
+1 Buy
Reveal and discard the top card of your deck.  In its place, you may gain a Treasure costing up to the value of the card you discarded.

As One Armed Man mentioned, this should be reworded to clarify that the treasure should be gained on top of the deck.

I like this for some late game buying power.  In the best case for standard money, it lets you discard a Province and put a Gold on top of your deck.  In standard money, this could even have some utility in a Duke-Duchy game where you likely run into $5s that you want to discard, and you like gaining Silvers on top of the deck.

Paired with a Village-based engine, you could even draw that Gold into hand and you have the extra buy to use for all that money.  This could be even better with alt-money, and in Colony games where you could get a Platinum on top of your deck.

In the usual case, you'll be gaining Silvers and this card will be weaker in the early game, but on boards with good $5 cost money, the card will be stronger in the early to middle game.

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Linder
$4 - Action-Attack
+1 Card
+2 Actions
Each player (including you) reveals the top and bottom card of their deck. Choose whether they put the revealed cards back in the same place or swap their positions.

Interesting mechanic.  I generally like it, but I'm on the fence about its power.  It feels pretty weak.

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Laurel
$5 - Action
Look at the top 4 cards of your deck. Discard any number of them. Put the rest back on top in any order.
+1 Card for every card discarded.

I like the flexibility and fast cycling, but I could see people using this as a +4 Card draw card with super discard ability.  This would be crazy with Tunnel (and would need an extra buy).

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Hardy
$2 - Action
+1 Action
Reveal the top 3 cards of your deck. Put the revealed cards costing at most $2 into your hand. Put the other cards back on top in any order.

Pair with enough Highways and this is almost always an activated Menagerie.  I like the idea, but it should take some work to make this chainable.... $2 cost is maybe too low.

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Dix
$5 - Action
Look at the first five cards on top of your deck.  Put one card in your hand.  Discard two cards.  Put the other two on top of your deck in the order you choose.

This seems more balanced than the rest of the look at the top X cards on your deck (where X>2).

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Jannings
$3 - Treasure-Curse
Worth +$2
You may trash one action card you have in play immediately. If you do, gain a Gold on your deck.
--
Worth -1 VP
--
(Rules clarification: This is a Curse as well as a Treasure. It is a kingdom card and does not replace the Curse pile. It may be gained by a player from cursing attacks instead of a regular Curse. It may be revealed and discarded as a Curse as a response to Mountebank.)

I like this.  It is a strong, but reasonably well-balanced counter to cursing attacks (see Trader).

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Veidt
$5 - Treasure
Worth $2
When you play this, reveal cards from your deck until you reveal a Victory or Curse card.  Discard the revealed Victory or Curse Card, and reshuffle all other revealed cards into your deck.  If you revealed no Victory or Curse Card, gain a Silver, placing it on your deck.

Interesting dynamic.  I like Silver+ cards.  This won't guarantee that the top card on the deck is good, but it is nice to discard a curse or victory.

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Arbuckle
$4 - Action
+2 Cards
Discard any number of cards. You may shuffle your discard pile and put it on top of your deck.

I like that it deals with its terminal dead draws by letting you shuffle them in, and on top of the deck.  This could be fun.




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Carey
$6 - Action-Reaction
Name a card type.  If you named Action, +1 Action.  If you named Victory, +1 Card.  If you named Treasure, $1, +1 Buy.
Reveal the top three cards of your deck.  Place all cards of the named type in your hand.  You may discard any or all of the remaining cards.  Place any remaining cards on top of your deck in any order.
--
When you gain a card, you may reveal this from your hand.  If you do, you may trash that card.

Could be a big money enabler.  Pair with Jack, gain a lot of Silvers, name Silver when this comes up and get +$5 to +$7, +1Buy.  "trash that card" needs to specify which card.  Is it the Carey (the revealed card) or the card to be gained?
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Farrell
$3 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
--
While this is in play, at the end of your buy phase, you may look at the top five cards of your deck. Discard all or none of the cards looked at. If you discarded any cards in this way then you only draw 4 cards (instead of 5) in this turn's Clean Up phase.

I sort of like this, but it feels weaker than Navigator in most cases (maybe not against Minion? But, then again, you give you opponent information by your choice of whether you discarded or not).

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Colman
$5 - Action
Draw up to 3 cards.
Put up to 3 cards from your hand on top of your deck in any order. If you put 3 cards back, +1 action.

Another menagerie enabler.  Lots of flexibility, but not too much.

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Ford
$3 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
Look at the top 5 cards of your deck.  Discard all duplicates.  Put the rest back on top in any order.
--
(Rules clarification:  You discard cards that are duplicates of other revealed cards, not cards that are duplicates of cards in your hand.)

An explicit menagerie enabler.  I think I like Colman better, but I like the concept.

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Beery
$5 - Action
+1 Action
Trash the top card of your deck.
Gain a card costing up to $2 more than the trashed card; put it on your deck.
Late game, this might accelerate a little too fast.  Imagine you have 3 Beerys in hand, and you luck into hitting a Gold on top of the deck.  Gain a Province on the first one, trash a province gain a province on the other two.  The fact that it is chainable makes it a little too good, but I like the idea.  Of the similar cards, I like Gilbert better.  This seems almost obviously good on almost all boards.

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Powell
$4 - Treasure
Worth $1
When you play this, name a Treasure card. Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal the named card. Discard the other cards. Put the named card on top of your deck.
--
(Rules clarification: You may name Treasures that aren't in the Kingdom.)


With the rules clarification, maybe too strong with tunnel.  Buy 4 tunnels and load up on powells, then name a treasure that is not in the kingdom to gain 4 golds on each play.  Aside from this crazy combo (which would be easy to pull off), the card is cool.

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Nagel
$5 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $1
Gain a Silver, placing it on top of your deck.
--
If this card is trashed in any way, reveal it and gain a Gold on top of your deck.
Great for buying Mints!  Decent counter to Thief.  Pirate Ship Fodder, but probably faster than the pirate can move.

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Chaney
$5 - Action
Trash a card from your hand.
Do this twice: gain a card costing less than the card trashed and place it on top of your deck.
I'd vote for this under trash for benefit.  Two things I'd try: Trash a Bank, gain two Golds on top of the deck.  Trash a Gold, gain two Duchies on top of the deck.  Maybe a little strong in some situations.  I'm not sure, but I like the anti-Remake nature of it.
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rinkworks

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenges #5 and #6!
« Reply #63 on: July 20, 2012, 04:54:34 pm »
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Aack.  Farrell shouldn't be in the results list.  I'll edit the ballot and strike it out.  It was an ineligible card -- by virtue of the fact that the deck improvement didn't occur on play.  I wrote back to its author, who submitted a replacement card, but I guess I still had the original card listed in my notes.
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Kirian

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenges #5 and #6!
« Reply #64 on: July 20, 2012, 05:19:14 pm »
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A quick clarification, rinkworks:  For submitting ballots, can we give just a single 2, or even no 2s at all, simply choosing which ones we like and which we don't without favorites?
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gman314

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenges #5 and #6!
« Reply #65 on: July 20, 2012, 05:36:13 pm »
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I believe that if you only want to have one superior to the rest, you give it a 3 and then everything else that you like 1s.
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Kirian

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenges #5 and #6!
« Reply #66 on: July 20, 2012, 06:01:03 pm »
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I believe that if you only want to have one superior to the rest, you give it a 3 and then everything else that you like 1s.

Right, I'm asking if I can have no 2s or 3s, only 1s.
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rinkworks

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenges #5 and #6!
« Reply #67 on: July 20, 2012, 06:44:46 pm »
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I believe that if you only want to have one superior to the rest, you give it a 3 and then everything else that you like 1s.

Right, I'm asking if I can have no 2s or 3s, only 1s.

That's acceptable also.  Having all 1s, and all 1s with a single 2, are also legitimate voting options.
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DWetzel

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenges #5 and #6!
« Reply #68 on: July 20, 2012, 08:23:42 pm »
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A few comments (in bold below) on comments, because I'm too lazy to do my own.  Disclaimer: one of these cards is mine too!

Given the large number of cards, I'm going to just comment on the ones I like (disclaimer: one of the cards is mine).  In this post, I'll talk up the deck-improvers:

Fairbanks
$3 - Action
+$2
You may put a card from your discard pile on top of your deck.

Depending on where you are in your shuffle, this could be very powerful.  No discard pile ==> no special power.

Getting two of these, and constantly top decking one, seems like a nice way to guarantee a terminal silver in your hand basically every turn.  I dunno if that's good or not.


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Chaplin
$4 - Action
+3 Cards
+1 Action
Put two cards from your hand on top of your deck.
With the top decking, this would go great with Menagerie... possibly turning into a power draw combo.

Yep.  Simple enough card, overall, I like it.

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Gilbert
$5 - Action
+1 Buy
Reveal and discard the top card of your deck.  In its place, you may gain a Treasure costing up to the value of the card you discarded.

As One Armed Man mentioned, this should be reworded to clarify that the treasure should be gained on top of the deck.

I like this for some late game buying power.  In the best case for standard money, it lets you discard a Province and put a Gold on top of your deck.  In standard money, this could even have some utility in a Duke-Duchy game where you likely run into $5s that you want to discard, and you like gaining Silvers on top of the deck.

Paired with a Village-based engine, you could even draw that Gold into hand and you have the extra buy to use for all that money.  This could be even better with alt-money, and in Colony games where you could get a Platinum on top of your deck.

In the usual case, you'll be gaining Silvers and this card will be weaker in the early game, but on boards with good $5 cost money, the card will be stronger in the early to middle game.

Venture says yum to this card. Discard Duchy or Duke, place Venture on deck, play Venture, watch dominoes go off.

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Linder
$4 - Action-Attack
+1 Card
+2 Actions
Each player (including you) reveals the top and bottom card of their deck. Choose whether they put the revealed cards back in the same place or swap their positions.

Interesting mechanic.  I generally like it, but I'm on the fence about its power.  It feels pretty weak.

There's a reason Pearl Diver is a terrible card -- I'm not sure that using the ability as an attack is any better.  Otherwise, it's a $4 Village.  I guess with Spy/Scrying Pool/etcetera, it could be okay.


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Laurel
$5 - Action
Look at the top 4 cards of your deck. Discard any number of them. Put the rest back on top in any order.
+1 Card for every card discarded.

I like the flexibility and fast cycling, but I could see people using this as a +4 Card draw card with super discard ability.  This would be crazy with Tunnel (and would need an extra buy).

Yes, this is pretty sweet with Tunnel.  I think this card may be overpowered, but it's hard to tell without testing it.

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Hardy
$2 - Action
+1 Action
Reveal the top 3 cards of your deck. Put the revealed cards costing at most $2 into your hand. Put the other cards back on top in any order.

Pair with enough Highways and this is almost always an activated Menagerie.  I like the idea, but it should take some work to make this chainable.... $2 cost is maybe too low.

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Dix
$5 - Action
Look at the first five cards on top of your deck.  Put one card in your hand.  Discard two cards.  Put the other two on top of your deck in the order you choose.

This seems more balanced than the rest of the look at the top X cards on your deck (where X>2).

I agree.  It may even be a bit on the weak side.  If it were non-terminal, it would be a slightly different Cartographer.

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Jannings
$3 - Treasure-Curse
Worth +$2
You may trash one action card you have in play immediately. If you do, gain a Gold on your deck.
--
Worth -1 VP
--
(Rules clarification: This is a Curse as well as a Treasure. It is a kingdom card and does not replace the Curse pile. It may be gained by a player from cursing attacks instead of a regular Curse. It may be revealed and discarded as a Curse as a response to Mountebank.)

I like this.  It is a strong, but reasonably well-balanced counter to cursing attacks (see Trader).

I can't say I like the idea of this card -- it seems to pretty strongly neuter curses.  Seems borderline broken with cheap action cards on the board or cards with +Buy.

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Veidt
$5 - Treasure
Worth $2
When you play this, reveal cards from your deck until you reveal a Victory or Curse card.  Discard the revealed Victory or Curse Card, and reshuffle all other revealed cards into your deck.  If you revealed no Victory or Curse Card, gain a Silver, placing it on your deck.

Interesting dynamic.  I like Silver+ cards.  This won't guarantee that the top card on the deck is good, but it is nice to discard a curse or victory.

TOO MUCH SHUFFLING.

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Arbuckle
$4 - Action
+2 Cards
Discard any number of cards. You may shuffle your discard pile and put it on top of your deck.

I like that it deals with its terminal dead draws by letting you shuffle them in, and on top of the deck.  This could be fun.

Could be.




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Carey
$6 - Action-Reaction
Name a card type.  If you named Action, +1 Action.  If you named Victory, +1 Card.  If you named Treasure, $1, +1 Buy.
Reveal the top three cards of your deck.  Place all cards of the named type in your hand.  You may discard any or all of the remaining cards.  Place any remaining cards on top of your deck in any order.
--
When you gain a card, you may reveal this from your hand.  If you do, you may trash that card.

Could be a big money enabler.  Pair with Jack, gain a lot of Silvers, name Silver when this comes up and get +$5 to +$7, +1Buy.  "trash that card" needs to specify which card.  Is it the Carey (the revealed card) or the card to be gained?

Since you're naming a card TYPE, not a card NAME, I don't think you have to be that specific.  Just say "treasure" in an otherwise pure big money deck, and vavoom.

The trashing aspect is worded like Watchtower, so should operate the same way.  I'm not at all sure the reaction is necessary on this card.


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Farrell
$3 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
--
While this is in play, at the end of your buy phase, you may look at the top five cards of your deck. Discard all or none of the cards looked at. If you discarded any cards in this way then you only draw 4 cards (instead of 5) in this turn's Clean Up phase.

I sort of like this, but it feels weaker than Navigator in most cases (maybe not against Minion? But, then again, you give you opponent information by your choice of whether you discarded or not).

Quote
Colman
$5 - Action
Draw up to 3 cards.
Put up to 3 cards from your hand on top of your deck in any order. If you put 3 cards back, +1 action.

Another menagerie enabler.  Lots of flexibility, but not too much.

This FEELS a bit weak to me, but again, I'm not sure.  The "up to 3 cards" thing needs clarification.


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Ford
$3 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
Look at the top 5 cards of your deck.  Discard all duplicates.  Put the rest back on top in any order.
--
(Rules clarification:  You discard cards that are duplicates of other revealed cards, not cards that are duplicates of cards in your hand.)

An explicit menagerie enabler.  I think I like Colman better, but I like the concept.

I like this one better, actually.  It's sort of a next turn Hunting Party thing in the early game.


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Beery
$5 - Action
+1 Action
Trash the top card of your deck.
Gain a card costing up to $2 more than the trashed card; put it on your deck.
Late game, this might accelerate a little too fast.  Imagine you have 3 Beerys in hand, and you luck into hitting a Gold on top of the deck.  Gain a Province on the first one, trash a province gain a province on the other two.  The fact that it is chainable makes it a little too good, but I like the idea.  Of the similar cards, I like Gilbert better.  This seems almost obviously good on almost all boards.

Yup.  Chainability makes it bad.  Could be awesome if it was more of an Upgrade-type "exactly $2 more" thing, but then you're often trashing your power $5s for nothing.  I'm pretty sure that any "blind trash the top of your deck" is a bad idea.

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Powell
$4 - Treasure
Worth $1
When you play this, name a Treasure card. Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal the named card. Discard the other cards. Put the named card on top of your deck.
--
(Rules clarification: You may name Treasures that aren't in the Kingdom.)


With the rules clarification, maybe too strong with tunnel.  Buy 4 tunnels and load up on powells, then name a treasure that is not in the kingdom to gain 4 golds on each play.  Aside from this crazy combo (which would be easy to pull off), the card is cool.

Agree -- and with the rule clarification, apart from the broken Tunnel interaction, you can name something not in the kingdom and basically generate a reshuffle (which may or may not be a problem).  I think this card could be much more interesting if you had to name something on the board -- in the early game you could still use it to generate a reshuffle, and in the late game, you're basically naming "my really awesome treasure card" anyway.  This still falls under TOO MUCH SHUFFLING though -- I play a Powell, name Venture.... oh there it is.  Play a Venture, chain goes off.  Play a Powell... I don't want my buy phase to take five real life minutes.


Quote
Nagel
$5 - Treasure-Reaction
Worth $1
Gain a Silver, placing it on top of your deck.
--
If this card is trashed in any way, reveal it and gain a Gold on top of your deck.
Great for buying Mints!  Decent counter to Thief.  Pirate Ship Fodder, but probably faster than the pirate can move.

Loan also says hi to this card.  Overall I think I like it though?

Quote
Chaney
$5 - Action
Trash a card from your hand.
Do this twice: gain a card costing less than the card trashed and place it on top of your deck.
I'd vote for this under trash for benefit.  Two things I'd try: Trash a Bank, gain two Golds on top of the deck.  Trash a Gold, gain two Duchies on top of the deck.  Maybe a little strong in some situations.  I'm not sure, but I like the anti-Remake nature of it.

Trash a $4 action early (something like Moneylender that's outlived its usefulness), gain two Silvers.  Trash an Estate, gain two coppers for ... um, Counting House?  Work with me here.  It's sort of a bastardized Haggler, really.  I think there's some pretty broken combos available if you're willing to trash something really good, even like a Gold, but I could be wrong.  Might be better to exclude Victory cards from what you could gain.  Platinum --> 12 VP comes to mind.



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nopawnsintended

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenges #5 and #6!
« Reply #69 on: July 20, 2012, 09:46:33 pm »
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A few comments (in bold below) on comments, because I'm too lazy to do my own.  Disclaimer: one of these cards is mine too!

Given the large number of cards, I'm going to just comment on the ones I like (disclaimer: one of the cards is mine).  In this post, I'll talk up the deck-improvers:
Quote
Carey
$6 - Action-Reaction
Name a card type.  If you named Action, +1 Action.  If you named Victory, +1 Card.  If you named Treasure, $1, +1 Buy.
Reveal the top three cards of your deck.  Place all cards of the named type in your hand.  You may discard any or all of the remaining cards.  Place any remaining cards on top of your deck in any order.
--
When you gain a card, you may reveal this from your hand.  If you do, you may trash that card.

Could be a big money enabler.  Pair with Jack, gain a lot of Silvers, name Silver when this comes up and get +$5 to +$7, +1Buy.  "trash that card" needs to specify which card.  Is it the Carey (the revealed card) or the card to be gained?

Since you're naming a card TYPE, not a card NAME, I don't think you have to be that specific.  Just say "treasure" in an otherwise pure big money deck, and vavoom.

The trashing aspect is worded like Watchtower, so should operate the same way.  I'm not at all sure the reaction is necessary on this card.


Oops, I tend to misread cards that depend on "type" rather than "name."  Thanks for the clarification.  I also agree on your "too much shuffling" comments.
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nopawnsintended

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenges #5 and #6!
« Reply #70 on: July 20, 2012, 11:35:40 pm »
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Here are my comments on the trash for benefit cards.  Again, just the ones I think are interesting or like.  Disclaimer: one of the cards in this post is mine (not literally "Mine", but the card I submitted).

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Mary
$4 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
Look at the top card of your deck. You may trash it. If you do, gain a card costing up to $2 more than the trashed card, putting it on top of your deck.

Both a deck improver and trash for benefit.  I think it works better as trash for benefit.

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Clara
$5 - Action
Trash a Victory card from your hand.  If you do, +2 VP, +$4, and gain a Victory card costing less than the trashed card.

Interesting dynamic, especially with lots of alternative VP.  Great for trashing Estates (just like Bishop, just like Baron without the buy), but has more power and option value from trashing higher value victory cards.

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Mildred
$5 - Action
+1 Buy
Trash a card from your hand.  If it is an Action or Victory card, +$10 and -$1 for each copy of that card remaining in the Supply.
--
(Rules clarification: If you trash action card X and there are only 4 Xs left in the supply, you would get +$6.)

Trash an action whose pile has run out, and you get +$10 +1 Buy?  That seems too good.  I'm not sure though.  I'd want to avoid running piles for fear of an opponent's mega turn.  In equilibrium, it could change the nature of the game.

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Theda
$5 - Action
+1 Buy
+$1
+1 VP
Trash a card from your hand.  If it is an...
Action card, play it three times.
Treasure card, +$ equal to its cost.
Victory card, +VP equal to half its cost in coins, rounded down.

Interesting.  A one-shot King's Court, a Salvager+, or a Bishop+.  I would definitely try this one out.

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Pola
$4 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
+1 Buy
You may trash a card from your hand. If the supply pile of the trashed card is empty, gain a Duchy. If the supply pile of the trashed card and another supply pile is empty, you may gain a Province instead.

This could be a very powerful card in slogs.  I'd like to play this in an IGG rush.  Once IGG is empty, trash a curse, gain a Province.  Plus, it is potentially chainable?  Feels powerful.  Too powerful?

Quote
Gloria
$4 - Action
Trash up to 2 cards from your hand. If you trashed 2 cards that share a type, gain a card costing up to $6 that shares a type with both the trashed cards.

Generally, I like this.  Best uses off hand: trash coopers gain a Gold, trash two Estates, gain a Duchy or Fairgrounds (or almost any other alt-VP).  I'm not sure why I would trash two actions -- doesn't strike me as being worth the initial buying.
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Greta
$7 - Action
Trash any number of cards from your discard pile. Add their costs.
For each $3 in the total cost, choose one: +$1, or +1 VP.
For each P in the cost, choose one: +P or +1 VP.
--
(Rules clarification:  "P" represents a Potion symbol.)

This seems like a card you would want to play once to clean out your deck of the junk.  Ultimate super trasher.  Also, clean out and convert the dead cards in the deck.  Maybe too trashy for my taste, but the muted benefit from trashing might make it a decent card -- not sure though.  By the time you get up to $7, you already have buying power.

Quote
Louise
$5 - Action
The player to your left reveals and discards the top card of his deck. You may trash a card from your hand of the same type. If you do, gain a card costing up to $3 more than the trashed card.
--
(Rules clarification: Type refers to the set {Treasure, Victory, Action, Curse}. If a dual-type is revealed, you may trash a card that shares a type with the discarded card.  For example, Harem is turned over; you may trash a card that has type Treasure or Victory.)

A gimped expand.  You aren't free to choose exactly what you want to expand, but +$3 remodeling is powerful enough to make it a decent card.  I like it.

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Mabel
$7 - Action-Victory
1 VP
Trash up to 3 cards from your hand.  Gain a card costing up to...
4 x # of Action Cards trashed
3 x # of Curse Cards trashed
2 x # of Treasure Cards trashed
1 x # of Victory Cards trashed
--
When you gain this card, each other player gains a Curse.

I like this card, except for the super benefit from trashing curses.  Trash 3 curses, gain a Province (or Platinum?).

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Maria
$6 - Action
+1 Action
Trash two cards from your hand. Gain a card costing up to the total cost of the trashed cards, putting it into your hand.

Forge-like without the exact adding up condition, mine-like in that the card goes into hand.  I like it.  Simple and powerful, but I don't think too powerful for $6.

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Eleanor
$5 - Action-Reaction
+2 Actions
You may trash a card you have in play (including this). If you do, gain a card other than [This Card] with the same price as the trashed card or lower, putting it into your hand.
Peddler-Eleanor would be unstoppable, no?  Get a bunch of Peddlers and Eleanors.  Play all the Peddlers you can muster.  Play Eleanor last, gain a Province.  Repeat.

Quote
Marion
$4 - Action
Discard any number of Action cards and trash a card from your hand. If you do, gain a card costing exactly $1 plus $1 per card discarded more than the trashed card.


Interesting wrinkle with the discarding of actions.  This would make me want to have action clash.  I like it.

Quote
Marlene
$3 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
Trash a card from your hand.
Gain a card costing less than the trashed card; put it in your hand.

I like the idea of gaining something less, but this needs to come with some added benefit.  Otherwise, it is too specialized (only want to trash Spice Merchants and Moneylenders after they've done their duty).

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Ethel
$5 - Action
Trash a card from your hand. If it is a...
- Treasure card, gain a Treasure card costing exactly $3 more, and a Victory card costing exactly $2 more;
- Victory card, gain a Treasure card costing exactly $1 more and put it into your hand.
Each other player may reveal and set aside a Province. At the start of his turn, he discards it and gets +$1.

I like the idea, but there has to be a better way to word this. The Province reveal is a little awkward too.

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Bebe
$4 - Action
Trash a card from your hand. You may gain a card costing up to $1 more than the trashed card. If you do, play it immediately.

I would like to see what happens when I trash a Bank, and immediately play a... Province!

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Mae
$3 - Action
Trash a card from your hand.
If it is worth:
At least $1: +1 Card
At least $3: +1 Action
At least $5: +1$
At least $7: +1 Buy
At least $9: +1 VP

hmmm... I like the cutoff idea, but this seems like it is made for trashing Peddlers and nothing else... and then what do you get?  An extra buy.  Seems weak, but maybe I'm not thinking about it right.

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Corinne
$4 - Action-Victory
+1 Buy
You may trash a Victory card from your hand. If you do, +2 VP and gain a differently named Victory card costing up to the cost of the trashed card.
--
Worth 1 VP for every 2 Estates in your deck (rounded down).
A rush on Estates and Corinnes!  I love cards that value Estates (I submitted Landlord, which was cut down for being susceptible to rushes).  I'm not sure how to think about the strategy for this one though.

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Geraldine
$4 - Action
Trash a card. Gain 2 non-Victory cards costing up to $1 more than the trashed card.
Remake-esque, but not as good at trashing.  Interesting.  I'd like to see it in action.

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Betty
$4P - Action
+2 Cards
Trash any number of cards. If they are all:
Action cards: Gain a Duchy.
Treasure cards: Gain a [This Card].
Victory cards: Gain a Gold.

A Transmute that is better at trashing.  It might be worth trashing any number of cards, but you won't be able to do it early to make it like Chapel.  Not sure if I like Enhancing the Transmute.

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Pearl
$5 - Action-Attack
Trash a card from your hand.
If it was a Treasure card: gain a Silver, and each other player gains a Copper.
If it was a Silver, each other player gains a Curse.
If it was a Victory card: +3 Cards, +1 Action, and each other player discards down to 3 cards in hand.
If it was an Action card: Gain an Action card costing up to $4, and each other player puts cards from his hand on top of his deck until he has 4 cards in hand.

I like this one.  Lots to read, but to me, it seems worth it.
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popsofctown

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenges #5 and #6!
« Reply #71 on: July 20, 2012, 11:47:59 pm »
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I haven't gotten a chance to read through everything yet, but I want to say that I did not re-submit my card out of laziness.  I feel it's one of the best cards I've come up with, and hoped that if people think of it in the context of its topdecking functions instead of it's peddling function they will realize what a good card it is.  It does have even stiffer competition though, topdeck is really good design space.
I wouldn't resubmit any of my others, even if given the opportunity.

Also, rinkworks saying that the card is terribly overpowered the first time and Powerman calling it terribly underpowered this time makes me smile.  Mark of a good card imo :P
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popsofctown

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenges #5 and #6!
« Reply #72 on: July 21, 2012, 01:16:13 am »
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Laurel
$5 - Action
Look at the top 4 cards of your deck. Discard any number of them. Put the rest back on top in any order.
+1 Card for every card discarded.

Very interesting idea, a mix of Cartographer and Oracle, I like it.
I think you like it because it's OP, sorry to say. 
Thought experiment - Don't look at the cards and discard them all.  You've just played a Council Room that trades +buy for not labbing your opponent.  +4 cards is too good for BM, even at the 5$ price point.
But it gets worse, because this card lets you abstain from discarding some of the cards! If you made a choice other than discarding all four, then we must assume you made a choice even better than super-councilroom.
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brokoli

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenges #5 and #6!
« Reply #73 on: July 21, 2012, 05:33:42 am »
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Quote
Laurel
$5 - Action
Look at the top 4 cards of your deck. Discard any number of them. Put the rest back on top in any order.
+1 Card for every card discarded.
Very interesting idea, a mix of Cartographer and Oracle, I like it.
I think you like it because it's OP, sorry to say. 
Thought experiment - Don't look at the cards and discard them all.  You've just played a Council Room that trades +buy for not labbing your opponent.  +4 cards is too good for BM, even at the 5$ price point.
But it gets worse, because this card lets you abstain from discarding some of the cards! If you made a choice other than discarding all four, then we must assume you made a choice even better than super-councilroom.

True. I didn't realize that.
But anyway, I like the idea and I think it could work at $6...
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brokoli

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Re: Mini-Set Design Contest, Challenges #5 and #6!
« Reply #74 on: July 21, 2012, 06:30:10 am »
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About Challenge #6

Here are my favourite cards (one of them is mine). But really, there are lots of good ideas. Congratulations to all.
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Mildred
$5 - Action
+1 Buy
Trash a card from your hand.  If it is an Action or Victory card, +$10 and -$1 for each copy of that card remaining in the Supply.
--
(Rules clarification: If you trash action card X and there are only 4 Xs left in the supply, you would get +$6.)
Very very interesting idea. I think it needs a lot of playtest though, because the card seems slightly too powerful.

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Anita
$4 - Action
Trash a card from your hand.
+$1 per differently named card in the Trash pile.

Great idea ! This could add an interesting strategy. But maybe the card is too powerful when there are a lot of others trashers around.

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Edna
$3 - Action
Choose one: trash a card from your hand, gaining a number of Coppers equal to its cost in coins, putting them into your hand; or trash any number of Coppers from your hand, gaining a card with cost exactly equal to the number of Coppers you trashed.

I love the cards interacting with coppers. And this one seems really promising. Probably my favourite.

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Louise
$5 - Action
The player to your left reveals and discards the top card of his deck. You may trash a card from your hand of the same type. If you do, gain a card costing up to $3 more than the trashed card.
--
(Rules clarification: Type refers to the set {Treasure, Victory, Action, Curse}. If a dual-type is revealed, you may trash a card that shares a type with the discarded card.  For example, Harem is turned over; you may trash a card that has type Treasure or Victory.)

I agree with nopawnsintended : "A gimped expand.  You aren't free to choose exactly what you want to expand, but +$3 remodeling is powerful enough to make it a decent card.  I like it."

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Virginia
$2 - Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
You may trash an Action or Treasure from your hand.  If you do, gain a card with the same cost; put it into your hand.

Simple but effective. It can replace remodel or salvager if you want to trash a Moneylender/Sea hag/etc...

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Carole
$4 - Action
Reveal the top 4 cards of your deck. Trash one of them. Gain a card costing up to $2 more than the trashed card. Put the gained card together with other revealed cards on top of your deck in any order.

Somehow a "next turn remodel", I really like it.

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Alice
$4 - Action
+2 Actions
Trash a card from your hand. If it is a...
Treasure card: +$2
Victory card: +2 Cards
Curse: Gain a Copper, putting it in your hand

I like the fact it is a village-TFB and how this card deal with curses.

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Paulette
$4 - Action
Trash a card from your hand, then gain a card costing exactly $1 more than the trashed card; put it into your hand.
--
While this is in play, when you buy a card, trash that card and gain a card costing exactly $1 more than the trashed card.

Wow, a very interesting mix of bridge and Upgrade-in-your-hand.

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Ethel
$5 - Action
Trash a card from your hand. If it is a...
- Treasure card, gain a Treasure card costing exactly $3 more, and a Victory card costing exactly $2 more;
- Victory card, gain a Treasure card costing exactly $1 more and put it into your hand.
Each other player may reveal and set aside a Province. At the start of his turn, he discards it and gets +$1.

Great idea, it turn coppers into silvers and estates, silvers into duchies and golds, gold into provinces, platiniums into colonies, estates into silvers, duchies into golds, provinces into platiniums. But as nopawn said, I think the province reveal is unnecessary.

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Joan
$4 - Action-Attack
+1 VP
Trash a card from your hand. If it's a Victory card, each other player gains a Curse. If it's a Curse, each other player gains an Estate.

Another great concept. By attacking the opponents, it gives them the opportunity to play Joan too. Funny.

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Bebe
$4 - Action
Trash a card from your hand. You may gain a card costing up to $1 more than the trashed card. If you do, play it immediately.

Another simple but very interesting card. I like especially the "play it immediately", which give a tactical dimension.

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Corinne
$4 - Action-Victory
+1 Buy
You may trash a Victory card from your hand. If you do, +2 VP and gain a differently named Victory card costing up to the cost of the trashed card.
--
Worth 1 VP for every 2 Estates in your deck (rounded down).

Alt VP card, I love alt VP cards. And this one seems alright.
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