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Author Topic: Request: The Very Basics  (Read 4268 times)

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BaruMonkey

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Request: The Very Basics
« on: June 05, 2012, 03:18:20 pm »
+1

No, more basic than that.

I just played against someone who was making mistakes that I don't think would be fixed by any article on this site. This was clearly someone new to the game, who hasn't yet played it with someone who took the time to suggest that they buy a silver. I pointed them to http://dominionstrategy.com/new-to-dominion/, but then I looked at the articles there and there wasn't really anything that said "Buying coppers an estates isn't really a good idea. Lots of Pearl Divers won't do you much good either. By the way, before you play Horn of Plenty, play your other treasures first". I'm not sure exactly what I'm hoping for in this requested article, but ideally it would at least cover the first bit.

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verikt

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Re: Request: The Very Basics
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2012, 04:01:17 pm »
0

First: Steal a brain. :-P Then play a few games solo and read the cards. How much more basic can you get?
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BaruMonkey

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Re: Request: The Very Basics
« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2012, 04:04:01 pm »
+2

Now that you've got your snark out of the way, what advice would you *actually* give to someone who has just stumbled upon the game?
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ftl

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Re: Request: The Very Basics
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2012, 04:05:52 pm »
+1

Isotropic is unfortunately not that great for getting in to the game like this, because the standard methods of play here (random from all expansions) make it really difficult to get a handle on any individual cards, since you see them so rarely. You play a game, a bunch of cards do things and you don't quite get what's going on, and then you never see them again.

In person, I'd advice just playing the base set for a bunch of games. Aim to get provinces. Figure out how cards work, try to figure out which ones are good and bad, maybe start making strategies. Play with someone good and copy what they do. You'll get over the 'buying estates and coppers' pretty soon, especially when someone beats you with something simple like smithy+money.

I have no idea how to get someone into dominion on iso if they've never played before, though.
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HiveMindEmulator

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Re: Request: The Very Basics
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2012, 04:07:25 pm »
+2

"Buying coppers an estates isn't really a good idea. Lots of Pearl Divers won't do you much good either. By the way, before you play Horn of Plenty, play your other treasures first". I'm not sure exactly what I'm hoping for in this requested article, but ideally it would at least cover the first bit.
You're off to a good start there. Maybe you should write it ;)

fp gave it a shot with his "making it to level 42" series that he started.
Level 1 and Level 5
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GendoIkari

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Re: Request: The Very Basics
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2012, 04:09:19 pm »
0

I have no idea how to get someone into dominion on iso if they've never played before, though.

Well you can set up your own sets on Iso too, so I would just tell him to avoid playing random games with random people for a while.
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Kahryl

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Re: Request: The Very Basics
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2012, 04:32:27 pm »
+2

I have taught several people dominion using isotropic.  It's quite easy if you just keep your patience and use a little perspective. Don't yammer even basic tactics/strategy at them from the get-go, stick to clairfying the rules and let them learn from their own mistakes when possible. Play against them using handicaps (such as skipping every other turn, or the first two turns).

And definitely use the base set.
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GigaKnight

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Re: Request: The Very Basics
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2012, 04:57:10 pm »
0

Don't yammer even basic tactics/strategy at them from the get-go

My wife does this IRL with people who just learned what Estates and Coppers are.  She means well but it drives me crazy.
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BaruMonkey

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Re: Request: The Very Basics
« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2012, 05:25:35 pm »
0

"Buying coppers an estates isn't really a good idea. Lots of Pearl Divers won't do you much good either. By the way, before you play Horn of Plenty, play your other treasures first". I'm not sure exactly what I'm hoping for in this requested article, but ideally it would at least cover the first bit.
You're off to a good start there. Maybe you should write it ;)

fp gave it a shot with his "making it to level 42" series that he started.
Level 1 and Level 5
Thanks for the links! fp has also posted the level 10 article, here: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=595.msg8205#msg8205
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verikt

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Re: Request: The Very Basics
« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2012, 05:34:22 pm »
0

You mean seriously? I can only tell you how I learnt to play. I came here, played solo a few times with random cards, and then opened a solo game with limited cards, like 10 of each set just to read what the cards do. I didn't have the patience to play them all through. Then I got my ass whipped for around a week and that was it. In my opinion playing a few solo games will help a lot more than half an hour of explaining. At least in the pre strategy how does it work stage.
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PSGarak

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Re: Request: The Very Basics
« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2012, 02:48:31 am »
+1

Have them play a few games with the base set where they have no idea what the hell they're doing and just grabbing whatever. This will cement mechanics and terminology in their head. You can't really explain anything at all if they're not solid on basic mechanics, like starting hand size and the fact that you only get 1 action per turn. They'll also run into a few common scenarios, like colliding terminals without enough actions, or dead draw, or how hard it is to get $6 to buy a gold, or drawing $7 in the endgame. They'll probably be building a piecemeal village-idiot deck at first. That's normal.

Most newbies overvalue kingdom cards and undervalue money. Teach them the importance of money by kicking their ass with a dead-simple BMU deck. Don't mention BMU specifically or how it stacks up against other deck types, just drive the point home that if you want to buy things you need money so you can afford them.

Then kick their ass once with a simple, no-frills chapel-based deck. After they're done scratching their head, explain the concept of density. This doesn't need to be deep or mathematical, just simple like "you only get 5 cards a turn to start, so you want them to be as good as possible. Copper and estates are the worst cards in your deck, so removing them makes it easier to get the good cards. I mean c'mon, did you ever draw a card and be glad it was a copper? Not often."

Once you've done this, they'll have enough of the fundamentals that you can explain other stuff to them. Deck density relates to things like terminal collision and when you want to start greening; average card value relates to the importance of hitting the magic thresholds of $5, $6, and $8. The other major concepts to introduce are attacks, and 3-pile endings. The former is probably best done with Witch or Militia, the latter is probably best done with a Gardens kingdom. After that, they'll need experience experience experience.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2012, 02:51:14 am by PSGarak »
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AdamH

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Re: Request: The Very Basics
« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2012, 10:29:12 am »
0

I take an approach when teaching people which attempts to skip the "buy random actions and fail" phase of Dominion. I don't know how effective it is, but I think it's pretty good, so I'll explain it.

When I'm explaining the rules, I don't even set kingdom cards out. I set out the money and VP cards and I explain that the object of the game is to buy better money cards so you can get to $8 a lot so you can buy lots of provinces. Then you explain that at a certain point you start greening, which means you buy VP instead of money. I present this as the "main" way the game is played, and play enough hands that they know what a BM deck "feels" like, because that's what made it click for me that you need to buy lots of money. I think this perspective provides a baseline for strategy at the same time as explaining the rules, so hopefully BM is more deeply ingrained in their heads and the temptation to buy tons of bad action cards is less.

This is also a good time to point out that copper and estate the worst cards available at this point, and since the goal of the kingdom cards is to improve upon this basic strategy, copper and estate will remain among the worst cards in the game. This gives you something to revisit whenever you get to trashing, since I had a tough time understanding how removing cards from your deck could have a positive effect on it.

After that I add in a two or three simple action cards and explain how kingdom cards work in general, blah blah blah. Other people have covered this pretty well. I've finished adding in anything novel here.
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