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Author Topic: Weekly Design Contest #226: The Count! (Judging complete)  (Read 2276 times)

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Tiago

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #226: The Count!
« Reply #25 on: August 05, 2024, 12:21:48 pm »
+1



I tried.

I agree with segura that it is confusing. It’s not clear to me what the card is intended to do.

I was trying to figure out what "plays as buys" in the teaser could possibly mean, and well this is not it. I'll change my submission to a better wording.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2024, 12:24:00 pm by Tiago »
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emtzalex

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #226: The Count!
« Reply #26 on: August 05, 2024, 12:23:15 pm »
+1

My Submission:



Quote
Count de Monet • $4 • Action
Gain a Copper to your hand. Reveal your hand. If you revealed at least...
2 Treasure cards, +2 Buys
3 Treasure cards, +2 Actions
4 Treasure cards, +$2
5 Treasure cards, +2 Cards

Like it's official counterpart, Count de Monet both harms and helps the player on-play. But rather than choosing, this count prefers counting. Specifically, it counts the money, i.e. the number of Treasures in your hand. And just like how some of the Count's negative effects (discarding/topdecking) can sometimes help it's positive effects (trash-your-hand), so to does the Copper CdM gains help trigger one more of its vanilla bonuses.

The card is somewhat tricky to play well, as it's benefits are generally strong in engines, but getting them requires you to have a bunch of Treasure cards (and it junks you with an extra Copper each time it's played, further slowing your engine). There are some interesting combos with other cards/landscapes, most notably Capitalism.

And remember, it's dee moe-NAY.
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Thanks to Shard of Honor for his Extended Version of the Dominion Card Image Generator, which I use to mock up my fan cards, and to Violet CLM, who made the original.

JW

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #226: The Count!
« Reply #27 on: August 05, 2024, 12:57:38 pm »
+1



To clarify, can the same option be picked multiple times?
Yes. Is there perhaps a clearer wording?

I presumed when reading the card that it worked this way, I just saw that someone else interpreted it differently so I wanted to be sure that my understanding was correct.
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segura

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #226: The Count!
« Reply #28 on: August 05, 2024, 02:46:59 pm »
0



I tried.

I agree with segura that it is confusing. It’s not clear to me what the card is intended to do.

I was trying to figure out what "plays as buys" in the teaser could possibly mean, and well this is not it. I'll change my submission to a better wording.
I think it is much better now. Even though it is implicitly clear, I would add „gained this turn“.
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silverspawn

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #226: The Count!
« Reply #29 on: August 05, 2024, 03:05:23 pm »
+2



I can't think of any wording better than this; please suggest one!

Now I understand what this does! Interesting effect.

Very hard to trigger though, since you have to have at least one in play to make it work, you have to gain at least two.

Unless you cheat/combo somehow, e.g. procession

(Also I think it should say "this turn", unless you don't mean to restrict it to this turn, but if not then I think it's totally busted.)

Tiago

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #226: The Count!
« Reply #30 on: August 05, 2024, 03:14:12 pm »
0

(Also I think it should say "this turn", unless you don't mean to restrict it to this turn, but if not then I think it's totally busted.)

Joust doesn't say this turn and doesn't mean to discard the Province every Clean-up.

Holger

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #226: The Count!
« Reply #31 on: August 05, 2024, 03:51:00 pm »
0

(Also I think it should say "this turn", unless you don't mean to restrict it to this turn, but if not then I think it's totally busted.)

Joust doesn't say this turn and doesn't mean to discard the Province every Clean-up.

Joust doesn't have present perfect tense like your card does. E.g. Conspirator does have present perfect, and it says "this turn".
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Cutepelican126

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #226: The Count!
« Reply #32 on: August 05, 2024, 07:41:57 pm »
+1



Forget how to resize... it's been a while

« Last Edit: August 05, 2024, 08:29:03 pm by Cutepelican126 »
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Snorka

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #226: The Count!
« Reply #33 on: August 05, 2024, 08:01:34 pm »
+3



I'm sure I don't have to remind you that Victory piles have different #s of cards at different player counts, but it's worth considering for this one. Everyone's gonna want in on the action until the beavers go extinct.
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Snorka

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #226: The Count!
« Reply #34 on: August 05, 2024, 08:06:06 pm »
+2



Forget how to resize... it's been a while
This is a fun-looking card with lots of neat synergies! It might be overcosted at 4?
Anyway, you can resize by putting width=250 in your image tag, like this [img width=250].
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Cutepelican126

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #226: The Count!
« Reply #35 on: August 05, 2024, 08:31:25 pm »
0

Quote


Forget how to resize... it's been a while
This is a fun-looking card with lots of neat synergies! It might be overcosted at 4?
Anyway, you can resize by putting width=250 in your image tag, like this [img width=250].

Possibly overcosted, but don't wanna accidently underprice a lab. I think my link doesn't let me somehow but I'll try it next time
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binbag420

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #226: The Count!
« Reply #36 on: August 05, 2024, 08:35:44 pm »
0

The best case scenario with this card is discarding a 3 type card to get +2 Cards +1 Action, and since you had to discard a card to get that effect anyway it’s a draw neutral card at best, so not a lab. I think it needs a buff, even in the best case (which is rare) your hand is the same size so it’s only ‘sifting’ but instead of discarding a bad card you’re discarding a powerful one (most cards with 3 types are pretty strong (not raider )).
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Cutepelican126

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #226: The Count!
« Reply #37 on: August 05, 2024, 08:53:44 pm »
0

The best case scenario with this card is discarding a 3 type card to get +2 Cards +1 Action, and since you had to discard a card to get that effect anyway it’s a draw neutral card at best, so not a lab. I think it needs a buff, even in the best case (which is rare) your hand is the same size so it’s only ‘sifting’ but instead of discarding a bad card you’re discarding a powerful one (most cards with 3 types are pretty strong (not raider )).

I think you misunderstood. It checks the cards in your hand not the discarded ones.
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Tiago

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #226: The Count!
« Reply #38 on: August 05, 2024, 09:09:08 pm »
+1



While there are probably a million problems with this that I haven't thought of yet, right now it's my favorite fan card I've seen in a long time. Amazing idea, looks fun, and very simple.

binbag420

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #226: The Count!
« Reply #39 on: August 06, 2024, 12:01:19 am »
0

The best case scenario with this card is discarding a 3 type card to get +2 Cards +1 Action, and since you had to discard a card to get that effect anyway it’s a draw neutral card at best, so not a lab. I think it needs a buff, even in the best case (which is rare) your hand is the same size so it’s only ‘sifting’ but instead of discarding a bad card you’re discarding a powerful one (most cards with 3 types are pretty strong (not raider )).

I think you misunderstood. It checks the cards in your hand not the discarded ones.

I see now my bad, pretty cool card
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fika monster

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #226: The Count!
« Reply #40 on: August 06, 2024, 04:28:30 am »
0



I did not realize you may pick the same option several times.
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BryGuy

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #226: The Count!
« Reply #41 on: August 06, 2024, 09:50:41 am »
0


While there are probably a million problems with this that I haven't thought of yet, right now it's my favorite fan card I've seen in a long time. Amazing idea, looks fun, and very simple.

fyi:
Enchanted Wood has already been suggested back in the days. I don't remember it's name, only that it was priced at 6.

Enchanted Wood (Victory, )
Worth 1 per Enchanted Wood in the Supply.

I added "+1%" to my version and a "when gain" condition so that its price does not become a total loss, but remains in the realm of gambling.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2024, 03:27:13 pm by BryGuy »
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silverspawn

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #226: The Count!
« Reply #42 on: August 06, 2024, 01:05:34 pm »
+2

My downer take is that I think this would play very poorly. Putting aside the game-accelerating aspect of buying provinces, buying the first trapping grounds for value is never a mistake, so it's an auto-purchase. Then once both players have one, you can buy the third for 5VP effective if you want, and your opponent can, in turn, buy the fourth for 5VP effective if they want; it's marginal either way. And at that point, no one will ever buy more. I don't see anything interesting here.

JW

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #226: The Count!
« Reply #43 on: August 06, 2024, 01:31:14 pm »
0

Contest closed! If anyone wants to make last edits in the next hour or so, feel free. I’ll try to have judging completed by Thursday at the latest.
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JW

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #226: The Count!
« Reply #44 on: August 07, 2024, 12:54:16 pm »
+3

Weekly Design Contest #226 Judgment

Your designs are terrific and show the vast potential of this design space, more than I had considered when posting the contest.

Party: a debt cost Laboratory, if you’re willing to take the debt on play. It can give a lot of actions from the first Party if you left yourself in debt, which you’ll be able to do by buying Party. It might make getting lots of +Actions too easy, but to do it from the first Party you need to start the turn in debt. And you still need to get a few for reliability if you’re relying on terminals for draw. Neat design.

Combine: A mini Forge but more flexible in terms of what you gain. I like how it’s not overwhelmingly good as an opener most of the time, as some of the $5 trashers overly favor a 5/2 opening. However, it seems too weak because it’s so poor at trashing Coppers (or Curses or Ruins).

Cattle: Fun flavor and art! I like that it stops at six tokens. That eases concerns about a herd of Cattle piling out the Provinces, and means that in 3+ player games two players can’t combine to buy all the Cattle then increase the value of Cattle to unstoppable lengths.

Architect: nice use of debt cost so that it can’t gain itself. I do think that it can make gaining Provinces a bit too automatic, for the many kingdoms where you can reliably gain them with Architect. Great use of the counting theme, and fitting art.

Beacon: Great flavor and art! Similar to Holger’s comments (https://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=21994.msg909612#msg909612), I think that it’s going to be weak a lot of the time; while the eventual draw can be very large, getting the draw soon so that your deck can function is typically more important. Games where opponents regularly play Attacks are an exception; there, you can load up on Beacons even without +Actions support and you’ll quickly get to the point where you can trigger a Beacon to draw other Beacons (like stronger Mapmaker chains) for huge hand sizes (hope that attack wasn’t a Militia). That might be very dynamic, but I think it’s more likely that your opponent buys fewer attacks and just stops playing them once you get a large number of Beacons.

Frontier: Fleet for hand-size. Great for decks that can get lots of VP without buying (gainers or VP tokens). Shows that there’s more space for “after the game ends” effects. However, counting cards in hand rewards engines for doing the same things that they want to do anyways, which is to draw lots of cards. You might buy Coppers on the turn you end the game to try to increase VP on your extra turn, instead of just messing up the statistics someone (markus?) keeps. 

Racketeer: Interesting Exile attack. Like Enchantress, it’s particularly strong against decks with money + a small number of key actions (especially terminals). Until piles run out, the attack will often get undone the next turn, but it could be very strong early if you play Racketeer and they have to keep rebuying a card they need to play again but don’t want many copies of (e.g., Chapel). And of course once piles run the Action cards played the most tend to be the ones where the pile ran out. Actions at the start of turn is a rare bonus, but it seems well used here as it helps ensure that you have more interesting decisions to make about which actions to play in response to opposing Racketeers. Seems like it would be strong overall, and it might cascade too much in favor of someone who can start playing them early.

Benefactor: An interesting Ally. It seems on the weaker end of potential uses for favors, but has the benefit that you can typically benefit from generating several favors a turn. It’s a little farther from the counting theme to only consider the cost of a single card in coins, though.

Lady of the Spirits: Night cards work great with Horses, Coffers, and Villagers. The only downside is that using so many mechanics on one card requires a lot from players. It seems like it would lead to interesting gameplay. For example, you can buy extra Villages for reliability and then have one in your hand to power this up, it encourages getting a variety of Victory cards, and it helps soften turns where you can’t play all the Actions in your hand. You might be able to use it as your primary source of Actions or draw, but that would take a lot of work. Bonus points because my 4-year-old asks if every day can be Halloween.

Town Square: I presume that it would only work on your buy phase “this turn”, it may need wording added to that effect. I assume that it’s referring to the number of Town Squares gained in your buy phase but the wording doesn’t seem clear about that. As silverspawn says, it’s hard to trigger, and the Coffers often wouldn’t be a sufficient reason to add multiple sources of +Actions unless you could also add something to play using those +Actions. But by the time you can buy two Town Squares and a useful terminal, you are more likely to have had to play two Town Squares, etc.

Count du Monet: fun card, but the mandatory Copper gain seems to make it too weak. Like Magnate, you’re going to need other sources of draw to use it well. Unlike Magnate, you’re also going to need to deal with the Coppers it gives before it breaks your engine. I think a revamp that makes the Copper gaining optional has a lot of promise. 

Crossbowman: Cool card, nice use of counting card types. Seems like it’s a bit weak at $4 and could probably cost $3. Flavor-wise, I am not sure why it’s named Crossbowman.

Trapping Grounds: Great flavor and art. Interesting use of counting. However, I agree with silverspawn that it won’t lead to interesting 2-player gameplay. With 3 or 4 players, the gameplay gets more interesting but also more political (in a more direct way than most similar decisions in Dominion). If only one player goes for it, they have an enormous advantage with the 12-card pile as they can get, say, 3 Trapping Grounds worth 9 VP. If multiple players go for it, it can end up being worse for them than if they had never contested it at all. E.g., two players each buy 4 Trapping Grounds. Then a third player buys 2 Trapping Grounds, reducing them to worth 2 VP each. Then (if applicable) a fourth player buys 1 Trapping Grounds, reducing the others to being worth only 1 VP.

Winner:
Lady of the Spirits by Segura (I PMd them about their victory).

Runners up, in order (should segura not want to run the next contest):
Party by NoMoreFun
Architect by X-tra
Beacon by 4est
« Last Edit: August 07, 2024, 12:57:35 pm by JW »
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segura

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Re: Weekly Design Contest #226: The Count! (Judging complete)
« Reply #45 on: August 07, 2024, 04:04:24 pm »
+1

Thanks for the win!
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