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[Donald X.]

The other big part of Plunder is Durations, so let's see some of those.



Siren is just some new Duration card. It's a little hard to get; someone has to get lured to their doom. There are some subtle combos for getting around that penalty; see if you can find them.

Stowaway is a Duration card that cares about Duration cards; yes today is just mirroring yesterday. They'll stow away on anything - a Merchant Ship, a Barge, even a Swamp Hag.

Swamp Shacks is a non-Duration card that cares about Duration cards. It doesn't call them out but you can see how they help it.

Finally Buried Treasure is a Treasure-Duration. It's the payload version of Den of Sin.

Plunder has a new kind of landscape, Traits. These modify a pile. They only modify a kingdom card pile (not e.g. Gold), and only Action and Treasure piles. Technically they don't "modify" the pile, they just refer to it somehow, but the pile will feel modified, take it from me. At the start of a game with a Trait, you randomly pick which eligibile pile is modified, and the Trait card can slide under the pile, leaving the text showing and the name on the sides. Hence the layout. Well man let's see some of these.



So. Pious. Maybe that shows up on uh Smithy. So this game, when you gain a Smithy, you also get to trash a card from your hand. Well that's bound to be handy.

Fawning means Province comes with a Fawning card. It's not optional, which is sometimes fun.

Shy lets you discard one copy of the Shy card at the start of your turn, for +2 Cards. It's pretty simple but still spices up almost anything.

Okay. If a Trait lands on a split pile, all the cards are affected; "a Pious card" means any card from the Pious pile. This can include Territory in the Clashes, even though normally Victory cards can't have Traits. And one way or another the rules will handle all the cases that can come up, so there.

Tomorrow: Loot.

[Jack Rudd]

Well, the obvious Siren combo is with Fortress.

[Awaclus]

There are some subtle combos for getting around that penalty; see if you can find them.

Moving it somewhere it doesn't expect to be on-gain?

[Donald X.]

Moving it somewhere it doesn't expect to be on-gain?

And in fact you can manage that turn 2 with 3 Coppers.

[Awaclus]

Moving it somewhere it doesn't expect to be on-gain?

And in fact you can manage that turn 2 with 3 Coppers.

If it's Pious, you can trash Overgrown Estate to shuffle it in.

[Co0kieL0rd]

Moving it somewhere it doesn't expect to be on-gain?

And in fact you can manage that turn 2 with 3 Coppers.

Transport. Necropolis. Although none of these refer to the stop-moving-rule.

[Aquila]

So what are the rules for including a Trait in an all-random game? Shuffled in with the WELPs?
In that case, is maximum 2, uh, TWELPs the recommendation?

[dirkdebeule]

@ Donald X.
In the explanation of Pious you mention "...you also get to trash a card from your hand.", but the card text says "may trash".
Does this mean that there maybe was a previous test version which said "obliged trash"? Or did you just made a mistake in the explanation?

[Karpeth]

Does this mean bane is a trait, and we finally can get a bane card if you bought first editions?

[Gherald]

Stowaway is a Duration card that cares about Duration cards [..] They'll stow away on anything - a Merchant Ship, a Barge, even a Swamp Hag.

Most simply your own gain of a second (and more) Stowaways. They're friendly like that.

[Jack Rudd]

@ Donald X.
In the explanation of Pious you mention "...you also get to trash a card from your hand.", but the card text says "may trash".
Does this mean that there maybe was a previous test version which said "obliged trash"? Or did you just made a mistake in the explanation?

I think you may be misunderstanding "get to"; it typically means "may" rather than "must".

[Dominionduke]

Siren+shelters+2/5 split=resign?

[J Reggie]

Cue the debate over whether Obelisk should be a Trait.

I wonder if Inherited will be as if you had Inheritance on that card from the beginning of the game? Probably not, because what would you do with split piles?

[emtzalex]

Stowaway is a Duration card that cares about Duration cards [..] They'll stow away on anything - a Merchant Ship, a Barge, even a Swamp Hag.

Most simply your own gain of a second (and more) Stowaways. They're friendly like that.

Or that Stowaway, if gained to your hand (e.g. with Sculptor or Artisan).

[dz]

There have been 2 very common rules questions in the discord:

1. Can Ruins get Traits?

No. Part of the confusion, I think, is because Populate can gain Ruins. But Donald X. didn't say Action supply pile, they said kingdom Action/Treasure pile (rip Night cards).

2. How/why can you dodge Siren's restriction?

it seems like most people aren't familiar enough with the stop moving / no visiting rules to understand tricks for dodging Siren's restriction. So here's my quick explanation:

(All of the following also applies to dodging Gatekeeper; it's just that uh no one buys that card)

There are 3 different categories of cards that are relevant for the no visiting rule:
1. gain a card directly to a location (Armory, Sculptor)
2. when you gain a card, move it (Siren, Travelling Fair)
3. gain a card. then move it (Replace, Summon)

(For more examples of cards within these categories, http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/No_Visiting_rule)

When you have multiple effects at the same time (i.e. category 2), you can order them. So if you buy a Siren, you can choose to topdeck it with Travelling Fair first. And then you resolve the Siren's effect, except that the Siren is no longer where it was gained to (your discard pile), so the Siren fails to trash itself.

[GendoIkari]

So what are the rules for including a Trait in an all-random game? Shuffled in with the WELPs?
In that case, is maximum 2, uh, TWELPs the recommendation?

I want to know this also. As well as the stupid but very important question of, what do you do if a Trait is randomly chosen for your Kingdom, but your Kingdom does not contain any action or treasure piles? A similar question had come up once with having Young Witch, but every or cost card you own is already in the Kingdom.

[Karpeth]

Oh, Another Q.

does this mean I need to sleeve my randomizers - to know which pile has what trait?

[Gherald]

what do you do if a Trait is randomly chosen for your Kingdom, but your Kingdom does not contain any action or treasure piles?

Your Kingdom is broken, return it to the store.

More seriously, the general rule in Dominion is that when you can't do something you fail to do it and move on.

[emtzalex]

Fawning --> any $7 Action + City State + Way of the Butterfly + Guildmaster + $4 = piling out the Provinces (as early as turn 3).

[mxdata]

Well, the obvious Siren combo is with Fortress.

And Trail. I'm wondering if there'll be another card in this set with the a similar on-trash effect to combo with this one

Camel Train would also be interesting with this. You could Exile one copy, then buy one from the Supply. The card you bought gets trashed while the card in Exile gets discarded

It would also be interesting with cards that gain from the Trash like Lurker or Rogue - essentially trading one Action for another (or ending up with no net gain - although with Tomb you'd still get +1VP) - although those would also let you regain the card you trashed for it. It'll definitely have interesting combos with trash-for-benefit cards, and costing only $3 will make it play well with emulators

Being Duration draw-to-X is interesting. We haven't had anything like that up till now (barring Royal Galley + draw to X of course). Order of play with other Duration draw will be important. It'll be interesting to see how this plays in various kingdoms - the trashing requirement would be a very high cost in some kingdoms and cheap in others

[GendoIkari]

what do you do if a Trait is randomly chosen for your Kingdom, but your Kingdom does not contain any action or treasure piles?

Your Kingdom is broken, return it to the store.

More seriously, the general rule in Dominion is that when you can't do something you fail to do it and move on.

Not sure if that applies to setup or not. The other option would be to draw a new landscape instead, which would be reasonable. But that's assuming that the general rule for choosing Traits is the same as the general rule for other landscapes.

[grrgrrgrr]

Pretty cool to see a fan mechanic pretty much making it to official Dominion. And Donald X's designs are obviously much better than the stuff I could ever come up with.

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20890.msg875201#msg875201

The Siren stuff is pretty nifty too.

There have been 2 very common rules questions in the discord
2. How/why can you dodge Siren's restriction?

it seems like most people aren't familiar enough with the stop moving / no visiting rules to understand tricks for dodging Siren's restriction. So here's my quick explanation:

(All of the following also applies to dodging Gatekeeper; it's just that uh no one buys that card)

There are 3 different categories of cards that are relevant for the no visiting rule:
1. gain a card directly to a location (Armory, Sculptor)
2. when you gain a card, move it (Siren, Travelling Fair)
3. gain a card. then move it (Replace, Summon)

(For more examples of cards within these categories, http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/No_Visiting_rule)

When you have multiple effects at the same time (i.e. category 2), you can order them. So if you buy a Siren, you can choose to topdeck it with Travelling Fair first. And then you resolve the Siren's effect, except that the Siren is no longer where it was gained to (your discard pile), so the Siren fails to trash itself.

Ooh nasty. Definitely falls into the "keep rules compact and encourage players to materialize every aspect of them" type of board game design, which is nifty.

[Donald X.]

Moving it somewhere it doesn't expect to be on-gain?

And in fact you can manage that turn 2 with 3 Coppers.

If it's Pious, you can trash Overgrown Estate to shuffle it in.

That does work. My example is drawing a card via Band of Nomads.

[J Reggie]

It would be nice to have a name to refer to traits, events, ways, landmarks, and projects plus any future similar things rather than using an acronym that keeps changing every time something new is introduced. Donald, is there any shorthand you use?

[GendoIkari]

It would be nice to have a name to refer to traits, events, ways, landmarks, and projects plus any future similar things rather than using an acronym that keeps changing every time something new is introduced. Donald, is there any shorthand you use?

Isn't "landscapes" a pretty common term that everyone uses?