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[MiX]

Cost claiming is bad, it outs Orders to scum.

How so?

We already know that all town are in Orders (and scum too). So the only people who do not have orders are 3rd party. They'd probably lie anyway, so all scum would know is people saying costs. The costs by themselves do not out any particular order.

Like in the end how does it pan out?

Skum lies, or tell the truth... whatever no way of telling.
Town tells the truth.
Now skum knows all and town has to guess who is lying about costs?

I actually change my mind, I don't really see the point in a public claim here.

PPE - yeah, what mix said

This maybe a little more. i.e town won't know which costs are real and which are not. But we can assume out of 18 that X are town, so that means X are real. And I do think that could be useful (mostly in trying to prove my case against MiX).

What does scum learn? Well, some of the answers will still be lies (3rd party). But they will know that X (out of Y, where Y is 18 - # of scum) are true. But what will that really tell them? Does it really help them if they know my power costs 5, 10, 30, or 50?

i.e. I don't see what we really risk revealing, while I think we either find evidence for or against MiX).

It tells scum who can be in what order.

Also we should be scumhunting, not third-party hunting. If we want a third-party dead, there's always Eddie out there.

[scolapasta]

It tells scum who can be in what order.

HOW?

[MiX]

It tells scum who can be in what order.

HOW?

Anyone with a cost different from 5 isn't a Dustbringer. Anyone with a cost different from mine isn't my order. Anyone with a cost different from a specific order scum knows of isn't of that order.

[EFHW]

EFHW in your response to Jimmm you say
“The Didds slip was not the one faust said - I don't expect her to know or anticipate people having non-order powers. But the special powers are not published in the OP, so giving house and order is not a fullclaim. Someone who is not a knight would be more likely to make that mistake. And if it is a mistake, why is she lying about having an order? So I think this is a legit slip.“

I responded before, But in the interest of clarity....I do not have any powers that are not tied to my order. I have the two listed in the set up, and then a third that is also tied to my order. It is not listed for everyone to read, but It would be the same ability for everyone else In my order presumably because it’s explained that as a ___ I can also ____.

Glooble and someone else (Mix) have said this is true for them as well. You are imagining something that is not there. You might have abilities tied to your order. I do not.

Any chance you could point me to where Mix said that?

FWIW, I'm willing to claim the same - I have powers related to two surges, and then 1 other special order power.

Yes, I am aware of these things. My point is that a fullclaim would include the special power, esp since she couldn't know if everyone had one and because it was very unlikely Eddie would know her special power just from hearing her order. So there is a contradiction.  Plus the overemphasis on Eddie acting anti town. Two questionable things can reasonably add up to a vote Day 1.

[EFHW]

I think the 5 vs 15 thing is NAI. It would be very MiX to see all the 15 sphere costs and happily extrapolate that to powers with unknown costs.

[WestCoastDidds]

EFHW in your response to Jimmm you say
“The Didds slip was not the one faust said - I don't expect her to know or anticipate people having non-order powers. But the special powers are not published in the OP, so giving house and order is not a fullclaim. Someone who is not a knight would be more likely to make that mistake. And if it is a mistake, why is she lying about having an order? So I think this is a legit slip.“

I responded before, But in the interest of clarity....I do not have any powers that are not tied to my order. I have the two listed in the set up, and then a third that is also tied to my order. It is not listed for everyone to read, but It would be the same ability for everyone else In my order presumably because it’s explained that as a ___ I can also ____.

Glooble and someone else (Mix) have said this is true for them as well. You are imagining something that is not there. You might have abilities tied to your order. I do not.

Any chance you could point me to where Mix said that?

FWIW, I'm willing to claim the same - I have powers related to two surges, and then 1 other special order power.

Yes, I am aware of these things. My point is that a fullclaim would include the special power, esp since she couldn't know if everyone had one and because it was very unlikely Eddie would know her special power just from hearing her order. So there is a contradiction.  Plus the overemphasis on Eddie acting anti town. Two questionable things can reasonably add up to a vote Day 1.

He didn’t ask about powers. He asked for house and order. According to Dylan, he needed house and order to fulfill the task, and become a real boy. There was no discussion about powers, so injecting that into what he asked us to claim, and then saying I should have done it, or known about it..... it just seems like you are looking reasons to oppose me instead of trying to understand what went down, and I was sharing the information to help other people try to understand what went down.

[Swowl]

It tells scum who can be in what order.

HOW?

Anyone with a cost different from 5 isn't a Dustbringer. Anyone with a cost different from mine isn't my order. Anyone with a cost different from a specific order scum knows of isn't of that order.

Have you claimed how much your SP costs?

[scolapasta]

It tells scum who can be in what order.

HOW?

Anyone with a cost different from 5 isn't a Dustbringer. Anyone with a cost different from mine isn't my order. Anyone with a cost different from a specific order scum knows of isn't of that order.

OK, that's fair. I don't think that is actually much of a reveal as I think there are probably at most 2-3 of any order anyway. I have no evidence - just that there are 10 orders and at most 18 knights. And while some orders may not be in the game, more orders do allow for more special powers, so setup wise I imagine there's more of a mix (no pun intended) than less.

[Dylan32]

EFHW in your response to Jimmm you say
“The Didds slip was not the one faust said - I don't expect her to know or anticipate people having non-order powers. But the special powers are not published in the OP, so giving house and order is not a fullclaim. Someone who is not a knight would be more likely to make that mistake. And if it is a mistake, why is she lying about having an order? So I think this is a legit slip.“

I responded before, But in the interest of clarity....I do not have any powers that are not tied to my order. I have the two listed in the set up, and then a third that is also tied to my order. It is not listed for everyone to read, but It would be the same ability for everyone else In my order presumably because it’s explained that as a ___ I can also ____.

Glooble and someone else (Mix) have said this is true for them as well. You are imagining something that is not there. You might have abilities tied to your order. I do not.

Any chance you could point me to where Mix said that?

FWIW, I'm willing to claim the same - I have powers related to two surges, and then 1 other special order power.

Yes, I am aware of these things. My point is that a fullclaim would include the special power, esp since she couldn't know if everyone had one and because it was very unlikely Eddie would know her special power just from hearing her order. So there is a contradiction.  Plus the overemphasis on Eddie acting anti town. Two questionable things can reasonably add up to a vote Day 1.

He didn’t ask about powers. He asked for house and order. According to Dylan, he needed house and order to fulfill the task, and become a real boy. There was no discussion about powers, so injecting that into what he asked us to claim, and then saying I should have done it, or known about it..... it just seems like you are looking reasons to oppose me instead of trying to understand what went down, and I was sharing the information to help other people try to understand what went down.

That's the things he asked me about, but when I asked about his wincon, he did not specify that claiming those two things would flip him. From our convo, I'm not sure what degree of detail is involved in whatever full claim he needed.

[scolapasta]

I think the 5 vs 15 thing is NAI. It would be very MiX to see all the 15 sphere costs and happily extrapolate that to powers with unknown costs.

So town!MiX would know all the surge powers and his own special power for a total of 20 powers (one surge only has 1 power).

Here are the the surge power costs:

Cost	Number
15	7
30	6
50	3
10	1
5	1
variable	1

Even if his special order power is 15 (which if it's not, I'll eat a hat), I don't see how you'd use that to extrapolate 15 for other special order powers.

[Swowl]

I think the 5 vs 15 thing is NAI. It would be very MiX to see all the 15 sphere costs and happily extrapolate that to powers with unknown costs.

So town!MiX would know all the surge powers and his own special power for a total of 20 powers (one surge only has 1 power).

Here are the the surge power costs:

Cost	Number
15	7
30	6
50	3
10	1
5	1
variable	1

Even if his special order power is 15 (which if it's not, I'll eat a hat), I don't see how you'd use that to extrapolate 15 for other special order powers.

I mailed all the hats to ash last game, you gotta come up with something else.

[scolapasta]

EFHW in your response to Jimmm you say
“The Didds slip was not the one faust said - I don't expect her to know or anticipate people having non-order powers. But the special powers are not published in the OP, so giving house and order is not a fullclaim. Someone who is not a knight would be more likely to make that mistake. And if it is a mistake, why is she lying about having an order? So I think this is a legit slip.“

I responded before, But in the interest of clarity....I do not have any powers that are not tied to my order. I have the two listed in the set up, and then a third that is also tied to my order. It is not listed for everyone to read, but It would be the same ability for everyone else In my order presumably because it’s explained that as a ___ I can also ____.

Glooble and someone else (Mix) have said this is true for them as well. You are imagining something that is not there. You might have abilities tied to your order. I do not.

Any chance you could point me to where Mix said that?

FWIW, I'm willing to claim the same - I have powers related to two surges, and then 1 other special order power.

Yes, I am aware of these things. My point is that a fullclaim would include the special power, esp since she couldn't know if everyone had one and because it was very unlikely Eddie would know her special power just from hearing her order. So there is a contradiction.  Plus the overemphasis on Eddie acting anti town. Two questionable things can reasonably add up to a vote Day 1.

He didn’t ask about powers. He asked for house and order. According to Dylan, he needed house and order to fulfill the task, and become a real boy. There was no discussion about powers, so injecting that into what he asked us to claim, and then saying I should have done it, or known about it..... it just seems like you are looking reasons to oppose me instead of trying to understand what went down, and I was sharing the information to help other people try to understand what went down.

That's the things he asked me about, but when I asked about his wincon, he did not specify that claiming those two things would flip him. From our convo, I'm not sure what degree of detail is involved in whatever full claim he needed.

Let's ask him: Eddie what do you need to flip your alignment? (also, once flipped, can it be changed again?)

[WestCoastDidds]

I think the 5 vs 15 thing is NAI. It would be very MiX to see all the 15 sphere costs and happily extrapolate that to powers with unknown costs.

So town!MiX would know all the surge powers and his own special power for a total of 20 powers (one surge only has 1 power).

Here are the the surge power costs:

Cost	Number
15	7
30	6
50	3
10	1
5	1
variable	1

Even if his special order power is 15 (which if it's not, I'll eat a hat), I don't see how you'd use that to extrapolate 15 for other special order powers.

I mailed all the hats to ash last game, you gotta come up with something else.

Hahahahahahahahahahah

[MiX]

Oh did he eat them anything I thought...

...I thought about a lot of things that game. The ones that mattered were correct. The others were wrong.

[Dylan32]

I think the 5 vs 15 thing is NAI. It would be very MiX to see all the 15 sphere costs and happily extrapolate that to powers with unknown costs.

So town!MiX would know all the surge powers and his own special power for a total of 20 powers (one surge only has 1 power).

Here are the the surge power costs:

Cost	Number
15	7
30	6
50	3
10	1
5	1
variable	1

Even if his special order power is 15 (which if it's not, I'll eat a hat), I don't see how you'd use that to extrapolate 15 for other special order powers.

I mailed all the hats to ash last game, you gotta come up with something else.

Hahahahahahahahahahah

Ditto

[EFHW]

I think the 5 vs 15 thing is NAI. It would be very MiX to see all the 15 sphere costs and happily extrapolate that to powers with unknown costs.

So town!MiX would know all the surge powers and his own special power for a total of 20 powers (one surge only has 1 power).

Here are the the surge power costs:

Cost	Number
15	7
30	6
50	3
10	1
5	1
variable	1

Even if his special order power is 15 (which if it's not, I'll eat a hat), I don't see how you'd use that to extrapolate 15 for other special order powers.

Reporter is not particularly powerful and 15 was the lowest cost across all the orders.

[MiX]

I think the 5 vs 15 thing is NAI. It would be very MiX to see all the 15 sphere costs and happily extrapolate that to powers with unknown costs.

So town!MiX would know all the surge powers and his own special power for a total of 20 powers (one surge only has 1 power).

Here are the the surge power costs:

Cost	Number
15	7
30	6
50	3
10	1
5	1
variable	1

Even if his special order power is 15 (which if it's not, I'll eat a hat), I don't see how you'd use that to extrapolate 15 for other special order powers.

Reporter is not particularly powerful and 15 was the lowest cost across all the orders.

Is this a "MiX is scum" narrative? Because it's a good one.

[EFHW]

Nevermind, I'm totally wrong. I still disagree, but don't have an argument to support my position.

PPE I don't see what you mean

[cayvie]

Nevermind, I'm totally wrong. I still disagree, but don't have an argument to support my position.

PPE I don't see what you mean

What is your position? Is this about mix's alignment?

[EFHW]

Nevermind, I'm totally wrong. I still disagree, but don't have an argument to support my position.

PPE I don't see what you mean

What is your position? Is this about mix's alignment?

I still think the 5 vs 15 issue is NAI.

[cayvie]

Nevermind, I'm totally wrong. I still disagree, but don't have an argument to support my position.

PPE I don't see what you mean

What is your position? Is this about mix's alignment?

I still think the 5 vs 15 issue is NAI.

So do you have an opinion on mix's alignment, 5 vs 15 or otherwise?

[Greathallscout]

(Almost) Everything costs at least 15...so I just assumed the Reporter thing did.

I could easily see that if all scum order powers cost 15 for Mix to erroneously assume that all order powers are 15.

This is quite literally impossible, I just looked at all the surges and scum must have powera that don't cost 15. So, what do you think was the origin of my mistake?

Why did you assume Dylan's posting power cost 15?

A true answer to this is a soft claim.

contradiction?

[faust]

No about dibbs.
It’s so clear that the extra power belongs to the order that calling house + order a fullclaim is totally NAI.

I don't know what Dylan's power belonging to the order has to do with anything.

If Dylan is town, then we already have a claim with order power revealed.
It makes the whole “mafia would forget that part with a full claim” idea less likely.

I'm not arguing that the special order power is what Didds ignored as being part of a fullclaim, I'm arguing that she forgot that you can have powers completely unrelated to your order.

You're not looking too good here either.

Care to explain this more? It reads like you're claiming town has more powers than surge powers + order special power. Is that what you're saying?

Yes.

[faust]

I see we've not gotten any closer to finding a lynch. Great.

Instead we're talking about claiming, which is absolutely pointless less than 24 hours before the deadline. And beating the dead horse MiX and his cost assumption.

[faust]

I believe that scolapasta is genuine, even if his content is anti-town at the moment.

EFHW, however, has been the biggest detractor from consolidation here. Her vote remains on Didds, who noone else is voting for, and she continues to participate in all this pointless talk rather than trying to find a good lynch.

I am now ready to

Vote: EFHW