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[Swowl]

Space, I had something to do with that.

Did you do the good thing and the bad thing, or just the good thing, or just the bad thing?

I had something to do with the thing that will help Space with aliens, which is good for her.

Have you said what that is?

I have not. I will let Space say or no.

It's a type of weapon, so not something I'd really expect someone scummy to hand to an IC.

was that the "good thing" or the "bad thing"?

[Swowl]

FYI: I blocked mail-mi last night. Maybe that's the reason there was no nk.

this is the first block result you have claimed this game right? Just making sure I am not forgetting something.

[Swowl]

Here is a thought. Based on the assumptions that..
a) MailMi is truthful.
b) Cayvie/Galz were the faction that have been "shooting AND killing" (because cayvie's death was just "killed").
c) Shraeye was a form of Serial Killer and a combination of them + some other faction, were responsible for the "just killed" deaths.


Night 1:
- 2 deaths.
- Cayvie "shoot and kills" MiX.
- Shraeye "kills" LL.

Night 2:
- 2 deaths.
- Cayvie "shoot and kills" WCD.
- Shraeye "kills" Cayvie.

*** so to that point, if it is assumed that SK!Shraeye was the other killer, meaning MailMi is essentially truthful in having not shot yet, because cayvie was "killed", the "shoot and killer" had to of been the other party... in this assumption... Shraeye".

Night 3:
- 0 Deaths
- EFHW claims to of blocked MailMi, suggesting that could be the reason for no NK.

Counter Argument - EFHW is skum setting up MailMi.
Normally in a situation like this there is an inherent downside for the liar - normally it would be the best case scenario is we mislynch their target, then we learn they were lying, then we lynch them. However, if EFHW is skum, they would have no reason to believe that Mail-Mi does *not* have the ability to kill, nor would they have a reason to believe that Mail-Mi is lying about not shooting. So, they fake a result on Mail-Mi, and when Mail-Mi flips what they claimed to be (a hunter of sorts), it will never actually look bad for EFHW.

Vote: EFHW

Maybe it wasn't even shraeye. Maybe EFHW's faction was the previous "just kills" and then they thought this out and chose not to shoot last night in order to rid themselves of the another faction player that has the ability to kill.

[mail-mi]

I've got a minute, I am going to full claim my rolepowers.

My flavor name is simply The Hunter. My win condition is as you've been told.

I have a 1-shot Vig that I can use to hunt my target. I think shraeye's claimed "2 powers target me and I die" is a lie since my vig would kill him. I asked ash about it after shraeye claimed, and he said I would be able to kill the Last Princess with my shot. Since shraeye was already dead, I tried to shoot EFHW last night because either her or eddie is the last scum.

I also have a weakened flavor cop. Each night I can target a player and learn if they are the Last Princess or not. I learn no other information about the player.

I'm also 1-shot Bulletproof, and I am not informed if that shot is used up or not. That may be why we didn't have a kill last night, though I have no idea why scum would shoot at me from yesterday, so it's probably something else.

[mail-mi]

I think I'm with DatSwan here. I think EFHW is actually a scum roleblocker that's trying to set me up. Why me, I don't know. Probably cause I'm an easy mislynch since I'm not town.

[faust]

Counter Argument - EFHW is skum setting up MailMi.
Normally in a situation like this there is an inherent downside for the liar - normally it would be the best case scenario is we mislynch their target, then we learn they were lying, then we lynch them. However, if EFHW is skum, they would have no reason to believe that Mail-Mi does *not* have the ability to kill, nor would they have a reason to believe that Mail-Mi is lying about not shooting. So, they fake a result on Mail-Mi, and when Mail-Mi flips what they claimed to be (a hunter of sorts), it will never actually look bad for EFHW.

Vote: EFHW

Mhf. I would think that if EFHW was trying to set someone up, it wouldn't be the claimed Survivor that she could actually win with.

[faust]

@mail-mi, are you human or alien?

[faust]

EFHW should probably also fullclaim.

[mail-mi]

@mail-mi, are you human or alien?

Human.

[faust]

@mail-mi, are you human or alien?

Human.

Of course you would say that. But most actual humans in this game have names.

[faust]

There are things that disturb me here....

unvote

Let's talk more tomorrow.

[mail-mi]

@mail-mi, are you human or alien?

Human.

Of course you would say that. But most actual humans in this game have names.

You said it yourself.

[skip wooznum]

So Didds, if I understand correctly, you have the ability to revive yourself after death, regardless of how you die, and that ability is not conditional on any other events needing to happen in the game?

Also, I'm not really buying that your wincon is as vague as "avenging your death". You must have specific concrete goal(s) that should be reached, no? You're really given no information other than "avenge your death"?

1. It was not unconditional, and it was one-shot. I need to check on some things before I can say more about the resurrection conditions. But the gist of it is that I was shot and killed N2, and then resurrected N3. If Shraeye had been able to skip a night, my guess is that I'd have not come back today.

2. My specific, concrete goal is to see the person who killed me dead. I don't have any ability to kill other than participating in a lynch. I was not and will not be told who it was, even once they have been killed.  I have some hope that Shraeye killed me, but I am going to scum hunt in case it was someone else.

So you might have already won?

As far as I know, that is correct. I don't have to be alive when it is all over, but my killer can't be alive longer than I am.

It's a pretty weak position to be in. What I have going for me is that you all have seen my flip, you KNOW that I am not scum.  I want to lynch scum, it is my only goal.

Ok so this makes zero sense to me. Why would a player who already won still be in the game? What is your purpose if your win-con has been fulfilled? Are you sure you aren't notified when your killer dies, and at that point you would be removed from the game?

[Swowl]

Counter Argument - EFHW is skum setting up MailMi.
Normally in a situation like this there is an inherent downside for the liar - normally it would be the best case scenario is we mislynch their target, then we learn they were lying, then we lynch them. However, if EFHW is skum, they would have no reason to believe that Mail-Mi does *not* have the ability to kill, nor would they have a reason to believe that Mail-Mi is lying about not shooting. So, they fake a result on Mail-Mi, and when Mail-Mi flips what they claimed to be (a hunter of sorts), it will never actually look bad for EFHW.

Vote: EFHW

Mhf. I would think that if EFHW was trying to set someone up, it wouldn't be the claimed Survivor that she could actually win with.

agree-a-souras-rex most the time on that one. but the credit factor and the "killing factor" kind of weigh in a little there no?

[Swowl]

I think I'm with DatSwan here. I think EFHW is actually a scum roleblocker that's trying to set me up. Why me, I don't know. Probably cause I'm an easy mislynch since I'm not town.

hold up. you shot at efoo yeah?

[Swowl]

I was in the petition qt last night. Nobody else spoke. I was interested to note that the qt was named session 4. I would have thought it should be session 3.

weird. should of been 3 people? or 4 people? I can't remember if the claim ended up being a third or a half of remaining.

[EFHW]

FYI: I blocked mail-mi last night. Maybe that's the reason there was no nk.

this is the first block result you have claimed this game right? Just making sure I am not forgetting something.

That's right.

[EFHW]

I'm Ben Mason. I have two powers but can only use one each night. I am a gunsmith and a roleblocker. N1 I gunsmithed Didds. I got a "no", but since there were so many redirections that night, I don't know who the "no" belongs to. N2 I gunsmithed Eddie and got a "no". Last night I roleblocked mail-mi because his claim didn't seem to match Shraeye's flip. His explanation today hasn't helped in that regard, either.

[mail-mi]

I think I'm with DatSwan here. I think EFHW is actually a scum roleblocker that's trying to set me up. Why me, I don't know. Probably cause I'm an easy mislynch since I'm not town.

hold up. you shot at efoo yeah?

Yes. I have a stronger scumread on her than I do on Eddie. However I voted for Eddie yesterday because EFHW already had a wagon and I didn't want to detract away from getting shraeye killed.

[EFHW]

Ok so this makes zero sense to me. Why would a player who already won still be in the game? What is your purpose if your win-con has been fulfilled? Are you sure you aren't notified when your killer dies, and at that point you would be removed from the game?

This is a really good point.

Also, with so many choices for wincon, you would think one of them would be to be scum.

I also noticed that the first three scenarios are linked to specific alignments, but the fourth one isn't.

I could have given up what I have space, and my revival capabilities and just been town. I thought that sounded boring.

If I had Not been killed by D5, I was just a survivor and had to stay alive.

If I was on the wagon of three town lynches, I’d become town.

If was lynched or killed, I have to avenge my death

There is another part of these scenarios that I need to check on before I share, but that is the meat of the conditions.

Space has the best evidence that my goal is to help town win.

[ashersky]

Vote Count 4.1:

EFHW (2): mail-mi, Datswan
mail-mi (1): EFHW

Not Voting (6): 2.7, SpaceAnemone, WCD, uncleeurope, skip, faust

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.  Day 4 ends on May 10 at 10:00 p.m. forum time.

[WestCoastDidds]

So Didds, if I understand correctly, you have the ability to revive yourself after death, regardless of how you die, and that ability is not conditional on any other events needing to happen in the game?

Also, I'm not really buying that your wincon is as vague as "avenging your death". You must have specific concrete goal(s) that should be reached, no? You're really given no information other than "avenge your death"?

1. It was not unconditional, and it was one-shot. I need to check on some things before I can say more about the resurrection conditions. But the gist of it is that I was shot and killed N2, and then resurrected N3. If Shraeye had been able to skip a night, my guess is that I'd have not come back today.

2. My specific, concrete goal is to see the person who killed me dead. I don't have any ability to kill other than participating in a lynch. I was not and will not be told who it was, even once they have been killed.  I have some hope that Shraeye killed me, but I am going to scum hunt in case it was someone else.

So you might have already won?

As far as I know, that is correct. I don't have to be alive when it is all over, but my killer can't be alive longer than I am.

It's a pretty weak position to be in. What I have going for me is that you all have seen my flip, you KNOW that I am not scum.  I want to lynch scum, it is my only goal.

Ok so this makes zero sense to me. Why would a player who already won still be in the game? What is your purpose if your win-con has been fulfilled? Are you sure you aren't notified when your killer dies, and at that point you would be removed from the game?

I am not at all sure of what will happen, but I’ve explained it as I understand it. Part of the confusion here with things not making sense is that I’m stepping around the part that I can’t share (which I alluded to earlier). My explanation was a simplification of the intents and purposes of my role. The most important part right now is that I’m here to help town. Space’s gift speaks to that, as does my desire to lynch those who shoot and kill.

[WestCoastDidds]

Ok so this makes zero sense to me. Why would a player who already won still be in the game? What is your purpose if your win-con has been fulfilled? Are you sure you aren't notified when your killer dies, and at that point you would be removed from the game?

This is a really good point.

Also, with so many choices for wincon, you would think one of them would be to be scum.

I also noticed that the first three scenarios are linked to specific alignments, but the fourth one isn't.

I could have given up what I have space, and my revival capabilities and just been town. I thought that sounded boring.

If I had Not been killed by D5, I was just a survivor and had to stay alive.

If I was on the wagon of three town lynches, I’d become town.

If was lynched or killed, I have to avenge my death

There is another part of these scenarios that I need to check on before I share, but that is the meat of the conditions.

Space has the best evidence that my goal is to help town win.

Hmmm...it feels like this is being understood fatherly narrowly in light of what has happened, not what could have.  If I had been lynched by town, that person would have been who I needed to avenge...so, I see needing to kill a townsperson as a fairly scummy alignment.

Also, on the third one, it was being on three wagons that killed folks of the same alignment that is become that alignment. I was paraphrasing when I recounted, and wasn’t terribly careful with my language since it didn’t happen. So, if I had help lynched three scum, I’d be scum.

[Swowl]

Ok so this makes zero sense to me. Why would a player who already won still be in the game? What is your purpose if your win-con has been fulfilled? Are you sure you aren't notified when your killer dies, and at that point you would be removed from the game?

This is a really good point.

Also, with so many choices for wincon, you would think one of them would be to be scum.

I also noticed that the first three scenarios are linked to specific alignments, but the fourth one isn't.

I could have given up what I have space, and my revival capabilities and just been town. I thought that sounded boring.

If I had Not been killed by D5, I was just a survivor and had to stay alive.

If I was on the wagon of three town lynches, I’d become town.

If was lynched or killed, I have to avenge my death

There is another part of these scenarios that I need to check on before I share, but that is the meat of the conditions.

Space has the best evidence that my goal is to help town win.

I do not comprehend any of the confusion here (minus the part that didds just updated). Like almost to a misleading point.

First off - we have claimed mailmi who has stated their win con was to find Princess Shraeye (awesome), and then kill/lynch whatever them. That happened. Mail-Mi is still in the game. Why would you be suspicious of WCD but not of Mail-Mi?

Secondly - Given the amount of flipped factions at this point, how is it not conceivable that "one of the win cons is linked to skum". Skum faction A kills her, she comes back to life and she inherently has to help skum faction B/C/D/E/F/however many the shit there are to win. That is a skum based win con. Albeit it is more survivor, but it is skum-survivor not town-survivor.

Lastly - I do not get the confusion on the win cons being linked.
1. They have no win con, and then turn into Town win con
2. They have no win con, they go day 5 with nothing happening and they gain survivor wincon.
3. They have no win con, they fullfil the lynch req, they gain town (or whatever in hindsight) wincon.
4. They have no win con, they get dead, and their win con is completely randomized based on who killed/lynched them.

They all start with having no win con, then based on events, the win con is chosen. 2 and 4 seem to be fairly directly linked to survivor, and 1 and 3 (as we don't even know if there is a skum faction of 3) seems likely to be linked to town.
Why is there a focus on #4 from you here efoo?

[Swowl]

I'm Ben Mason. I have two powers but can only use one each night. I am a gunsmith and a roleblocker. N1 I gunsmithed Didds. I got a "no", but since there were so many redirections that night, I don't know who the "no" belongs to. N2 I gunsmithed Eddie and got a "no". Last night I roleblocked mail-mi because his claim didn't seem to match Shraeye's flip. His explanation today hasn't helped in that regard, either.

well there goes the freekin eddie/efhw theory.