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[faust]

It's my new survival strategy: Have terrible reads on the first 2 days and then suddenly things snap and everything falls into place.

Seriously though, the fact that silver is using the "faust is alive" argument should be enough to prove his scumminess. Scum killed a Mason N1 and a Neapolitan N2. Obviously both were higher priority targets than me.

[faust]

I think everyone can just read end of D2 for themselves and decide whether silver is

a) trying to convince people that they should vote ari
b) trying to signal as loud as possible that he disapproves of the DatSwan wagon.

[EFHW]

I think we need to look very seriously at faust at this point, given his case on mail-mi and the hammer of DatSwan.

No. That makes no sense. If I was scum who knew mail-mi's role, then pursuing that lynch does not help me - he would only claim, which leaves me in the same position as before.

And the hammer of DatSwan, I have no regrets. His claim read like a fakeclaim because it was a fakeclaim. Which only goes to show again: Don't lie as town, folks.

How did I miss that? /super annoyed at myself and him.

[silverspawn]

Seriously though, the fact that silver is using the "faust is alive" argument should be enough to prove his scumminess. Scum killed a Mason N1 and a Neapolitan N2. Obviously both were higher priority targets than me.

As you know but chose to ignore in order to make a dishonest argument, ICs are not an obvious choice for scum because they are more likely to be watched or doctored. As you also know but chose to ignore, mail-mi hadn't claimed. The fact that there was an IC makes the argument a bit weaker, but not much.

[silverspawn]

There's also no reason why this would make me scummy. I've made the argument before as town.

I think everyone can just read end of D2 for themselves and decide whether silver is

a) trying to convince people that they should vote ari
b) trying to signal as loud as possible that he disapproves of the DatSwan wagon.

I was trying to convince people to vote for ari. I made a case on him, voted for him all day, and asked people to reconsider. Idk what more you want. And I still want to lynch him. If I had a day vig shot right now, he'd be my first choice.

[silverspawn]

I don't even remember being all that upset about the DatSwan wagon until the claim.

[faust]

I don't even remember being all that upset about the DatSwan wagon until the claim.

This is not what I mean. You made it very clear that you would not vote for DatSwan because ari was the better choice. You did not try to convince people, you just yelled "vote ari". You did not to my knowledge engage Debatepro, who was the only one off both wagons, to try and convince them to hammer ari. It was very clear at that point that DatSwan would be the lynch, and you tried your best to milk your bus on your scumpartner for towncred.

[silverspawn]

So basically you're accusing me of not putting more effort into persuading people? Otherwise, what do you think I would have done differently as town?

[faust]

So basically you're accusing me of not putting more effort into persuading people? Otherwise, what do you think I would have done differently as town?

Basically yes. Alternatively I could see town!you seeing that trying to get ari lynched is hopeless and move somewhere else in hopes to get a scum lynch.

Plus it's not only about the what, but also the how. Your supposed blundering carelessness was faked.

[silverspawn]

Well you're wrong.

[Debatepro]

This is not too hard, really. shraeye is town. raerae is town. EFHW I really doubt that she would do that fakeclaim as scum. Which in turn renders Eddie townie. This shrinks the lynchpool to just

ari, silver, Joseph, Debatepro, faust

I am also town, which granted may not be obvious to you. Thus we have 4 people to pick from for scum. PoE is strong here. And this is also why I think a massclaim will do no good.

I'm not buying it, because if what you say is true then I know the scum are ari, silver, and joseph which isn't likely because SS pushed ari hard in the last day. I think you are not this careless and are pushing another mislynch. Furthermore something in your analysis is incorrect namely: faust, EFHW, and/or Eddie should be removed from the list of potentials.

Vote: Faust

[faust]

I'm not buying it, because if what you say is true then I know the scum are ari, silver, and joseph which isn't likely because SS pushed ari hard in the last day.

Why does that make it not likely?

I think you are not this careless and are pushing another mislynch. Furthermore something in your analysis is incorrect namely: faust, EFHW, and/or Eddie should be removed from the list of potentials.

I do not get what you are saying... all of those are removed from my list.

[raerae]

Meh, whatcha think about a

Vote: EFHW,

faust?

I basically think what I just said in the post above...

Yeah, I didn't look at the PPE, bad habit but habit nonetheless.  Anyway, I think I like my vote there.  I didn't see as much town in her claim as you did.

You should consider that if her role really was a fakeclaim, then scum!EFHW would have had no way of knowing that her result on Uncle was the correct one. Even if she say, Rolecopped him, it would still have been possible that someone else targeted Eddie, thus outing her.

You're assuming he's town here, a fact I'm not convinced of either.

[EFHW]

Meh, whatcha think about a

Vote: EFHW,

faust?

I basically think what I just said in the post above...

Yeah, I didn't look at the PPE, bad habit but habit nonetheless.  Anyway, I think I like my vote there.  I didn't see as much town in her claim as you did.

You should consider that if her role really was a fakeclaim, then scum!EFHW would have had no way of knowing that her result on Uncle was the correct one. Even if she say, Rolecopped him, it would still have been possible that someone else targeted Eddie, thus outing her.

You're assuming he's town here, a fact I'm not convinced of either.

I was surprised to see faust give him town status in his POE. He's not IC. If ari is scum, he has a passive role and would have showed no motion if no one targeted him. There could be another.

[faust]

Meh, whatcha think about a

Vote: EFHW,

faust?

I basically think what I just said in the post above...

Yeah, I didn't look at the PPE, bad habit but habit nonetheless.  Anyway, I think I like my vote there.  I didn't see as much town in her claim as you did.

You should consider that if her role really was a fakeclaim, then scum!EFHW would have had no way of knowing that her result on Uncle was the correct one. Even if she say, Rolecopped him, it would still have been possible that someone else targeted Eddie, thus outing her.

You're assuming he's town here, a fact I'm not convinced of either.

No, the argument still stands even if Eddie is scum.

[EFHW]

This is not too hard, really. shraeye is town. raerae is town. EFHW I really doubt that she would do that fakeclaim as scum. Which in turn renders Eddie townie. This shrinks the lynchpool to just

ari, silver, Joseph, Debatepro, faust

I am also town, which granted may not be obvious to you. Thus we have 4 people to pick from for scum. PoE is strong here. And this is also why I think a massclaim will do no good.

I'm not buying it, because if what you say is true then I know the scum are ari, silver, and joseph which isn't likely because SS pushed ari hard in the last day. ...

silver pushing ari hard doesn't earn silver townpoints or make them unlikely partners. Scum!ari was a likely lynch anyway, being new scum, and his dying would disable the Neapolitan and maybe make silver look towny  which was the conclusion you drew.

[Uncleeurope]

Meh, whatcha think about a

Vote: EFHW,

faust?

I basically think what I just said in the post above...

Yeah, I didn't look at the PPE, bad habit but habit nonetheless.  Anyway, I think I like my vote there.  I didn't see as much town in her claim as you did.

You should consider that if her role really was a fakeclaim, then scum!EFHW would have had no way of knowing that her result on Uncle was the correct one. Even if she say, Rolecopped him, it would still have been possible that someone else targeted Eddie, thus outing her.

You're assuming he's town here, a fact I'm not convinced of either.

Then vote for me instead, because if EFHW’s badness hinges on me being bad it only makes sense to vote for me.

Obviously I would prefer we avoided that path, but I really would prefer me dying and confirming (of sorts) EFHW instead of us killing EFHW and being unsure about me still.

Again, though, I think there are more pressing cases to pay attention to.

Speaking of, can someone with more diligence than I pull day1’s lynch? That information seems helpful to look at in light of our new discoveries.

PPE: 2

[faust]

Meh, whatcha think about a

Vote: EFHW,

faust?

I basically think what I just said in the post above...

Yeah, I didn't look at the PPE, bad habit but habit nonetheless.  Anyway, I think I like my vote there.  I didn't see as much town in her claim as you did.

You should consider that if her role really was a fakeclaim, then scum!EFHW would have had no way of knowing that her result on Uncle was the correct one. Even if she say, Rolecopped him, it would still have been possible that someone else targeted Eddie, thus outing her.

You're assuming he's town here, a fact I'm not convinced of either.

I was surprised to see faust give him town status in his POE. He's not IC. If ari is scum, he has a passive role and would have showed no motion if no one targeted him. There could be another.

He's not IC, but he is my strongest (non-confirmed) townread and for him to be scum he has to have a passive role and not have committed the nightkill, which makes him roughly a third as likely to be scum as any other unconfirmed player.

[raerae]

Meh, whatcha think about a

Vote: EFHW,

faust?

I basically think what I just said in the post above...

Yeah, I didn't look at the PPE, bad habit but habit nonetheless.  Anyway, I think I like my vote there.  I didn't see as much town in her claim as you did.

You should consider that if her role really was a fakeclaim, then scum!EFHW would have had no way of knowing that her result on Uncle was the correct one. Even if she say, Rolecopped him, it would still have been possible that someone else targeted Eddie, thus outing her.

You're assuming he's town here, a fact I'm not convinced of either.

No, the argument still stands even if Eddie is scum.

I don't understand. If they're both scum she could easily be lying about motion surrounding her partner. Regardless, let's move on for a minute.

D1, you said there was probably a strongman, got any thoughts and feelings on that now?

[EFHW]

@raerae, scum!me still wouldn't have known if town might have targeted him with something.

[faust]

Meh, whatcha think about a

Vote: EFHW,

faust?

I basically think what I just said in the post above...

Yeah, I didn't look at the PPE, bad habit but habit nonetheless.  Anyway, I think I like my vote there.  I didn't see as much town in her claim as you did.

You should consider that if her role really was a fakeclaim, then scum!EFHW would have had no way of knowing that her result on Uncle was the correct one. Even if she say, Rolecopped him, it would still have been possible that someone else targeted Eddie, thus outing her.

You're assuming he's town here, a fact I'm not convinced of either.

No, the argument still stands even if Eddie is scum.

I don't understand. If they're both scum she could easily be lying about motion surrounding her partner. Regardless, let's move on for a minute.

D1, you said there was probably a strongman, got any thoughts and feelings on that now?

If Eddie is scum, EFHW still could not know whether some townie targeted Eddie, in which case her result would be wrong and she would be called out.

I don't think it is beneficial for me to answer your other question.

[raerae]

Meh, whatcha think about a

Vote: EFHW,

faust?

I basically think what I just said in the post above...

Yeah, I didn't look at the PPE, bad habit but habit nonetheless.  Anyway, I think I like my vote there.  I didn't see as much town in her claim as you did.

You should consider that if her role really was a fakeclaim, then scum!EFHW would have had no way of knowing that her result on Uncle was the correct one. Even if she say, Rolecopped him, it would still have been possible that someone else targeted Eddie, thus outing her.

You're assuming he's town here, a fact I'm not convinced of either.

No, the argument still stands even if Eddie is scum.

I don't understand. If they're both scum she could easily be lying about motion surrounding her partner. Regardless, let's move on for a minute.

D1, you said there was probably a strongman, got any thoughts and feelings on that now?

If Eddie is scum, EFHW still could not know whether some townie targeted Eddie, in which case her result would be wrong and she would be called out.

I don't think it is beneficial for me to answer your other question.

By the time she claimed mail-mi had been dropping hints left and right about investigating me. I see it as super plausible for her to have seen that and taken the opportunity to keep Eddie off the table.

[faust]

I think scum!EFHW claims Tracker over Motion Detector there 100% of the time. Unless she is actually a scum Motion Detector, in which case it makes zero sense for her to have targeted scumpartner!Eddie and little sense to claim to save town!Eddie.

[raerae]

I think scum!EFHW claims Tracker over Motion Detector there 100% of the time. Unless she is actually a scum Motion Detector, in which case it makes zero sense for her to have targeted scumpartner!Eddie and little sense to claim to save town!Eddie.

We're just going to disagree on that for a minute then. How do you feel about a third faction and debate? Separate entities or the same, take it as you will.

[Debatepro]

I agree ari's suspicious and the easy lynch but I'm still not convinced.  I am highly suspicious of everybody claiming complete ignorance to mail-mi being the cop.  He wasn't dropping breadcrumbs, he was throwing whole loaves at anybody who would listen. 

Let's play a hypothetical game.
1. Debatepro is a brand new player, we're talking virgin people, like he's only heard about it and talked about it with his wizard girlfriend kind of virgin. Think "he hasn't even watched how it's done on the internet kind of virgin."
2. Debatepro posts a comprehensive review of Raerae's game in post #1132 and concludes "leaning firm town" on Raerae. BTW that's a ringing enforcement from not drunk or cornered debatepro.
3. Ari says in #1133 says he believes debatepro is town because what kind of scum would give that much info to town.
4. Debatepro reads Ari's post with skepticism because if Ari is scum he knows debatepro is town, as do all the other scum.
5. Mail-mi posts in #1216 and #1238 that he has a town!read on raerae.
6. Debatepro thinks... hmm... that's like 100 posts later. AND why wouldn't he say that when I did such a thorough defense in #1132. Debatepro has double skepticism for Mail-mi because he isn't helping town.
7. Faust dislikes Mail-Mi's reads list in #1246 which includes raerae as town.
8. Several players in the game, not named debatepro, pick up on mail-mi's breadcrumb.
9. Remember debatepro thinks it's his deft defense of raerae that convinced people. See #1487
9a. Debatepro says to shraeye "Some might argue your explicate inclusion of rae on your team happened after that post."
9b. Debatepro suspects joseph is scum in for not giving debatepro any towncred for his early read on raerae.

I'm going to save you the obvious, it's not a hypothetical game, it actually happened that way. Check it out for yourself. Also, what is more likely, debatepro is town or he crafted this elaborate defense hundreds of posts in advance with no live coaching?

Faust pushes lynch of mail-mi, because well if he can get a mislynch on someone he suspects has a PR, then they don't have to do it in the night and can go after a better player.

Which BTW I don't think mail-mi was that good in this game.  If I was scum and my choice was between mail-mi with a hypothetical PR role (one of my ExperiencedScumBuddy would have had to point it out) and town.faust, would you really kill mail-mi always in that instance? Maybe, hoping town can't believe faust is still in the game as a town player and they mislynch. But you give the wizard 7 more days to figure out the entire scum team. I don't think it's such a cut and dry case.

Also, i don't care if the wizard town/scum.faust spends the next 7 IRL days building a case against me, it's wrong.



PPE: A lot