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[mail-mi]

So it turns out I have too much homework tonight and won't be able to catch up. Tomorrow looks to be a little clearer so we'll see what happens. I'm sorry, I didn't realize I'd be this busy

[faust]

@faust, what do you think of shraeye?

I am not too fussed about the way he has played so far. But I thought the whole questioning three players thing was at least a somewhat townie idea. Plus whiteknighting raerae into oblivion seems kind of... less subtle than I expect scum to be.

[faust]

I just re-read DatSwan, except for that half finished opinion article on everyone I don't see any scummyness there. I fos shraeye, but think that buddying is more suspect than playing games. Joseph? Haven't noticed him. I'll reread him when I have time.

Anyone else have ace attorney pursuit themes play in their head when they type rebuttals?

You're really just policy voting players. No single behaviour is scummy. You need to look for context.

[faust]

inb4 he's scum and I'm dead wrong. But my gut also says town. Plus the attention thing faust mentioned is a good point.

let's vote: DatSwan. I hope your reads are better this game than last @faust

Seems somewhat disingenuous considering I have expressed a scumread on you.

[faust]

Most notably, we have four super new players voting for a fifth super new player.

Neither raerae nor shraeye are new.

[faust]

Seconded. Scum loves all this attention on MiX.

Why are you defending MiX? Do you think he's town? If so, say it clearly, and give justification.

Yes, I think he's town. I think he's a capable player and it would have been so easy to not bring all this attention on himself. Plus the way people refuse to move away from that wagon shows that scum isn't interested in alternatives./

@Faust can you explain this because I’m confused. I’m sure it’s something i don’t understand. People did move away from the wagon including you. As of #444 only  Debatepro, shraeye, raerae, arishipshape are on MiX. The quote above is at post #437. This is important because #SS uses this justification for his vote on Datswan.

Yes some people shifted their votes, but MiX wasn't ever not the center of attention. Some people have been voting there very consistently, and others like EFHW continue to make meta arguments for why we should lynch him without expressing actual reads.

[faust]

Giving passes for activity is NOT a good idea.  It's the flipside of lynching somebody for not being around.  Dislike.

Who is this respnding to? Are you under the impression that anyone is giviing MiX an activity pass? Because I didn't see anything like that.

[faust]

@DebatoPro and ari, you need to start figuring out that disagreeing with you is not scummy. Right now you are very frustrating to talk to.

[Swowl]

I think his point is this:

If Faust is scum he will want to keep his options as open as possible, including the ability to claim to be some “neutral” role that is in some way unaffected by everything. That way he can explain his lack of townie behavior without him being scum. (I assume he has done this before, hence LLs question and DS’s reaction)

But he shut down that line of reasoning (theoretically) due to him saying he is team town.

This is something a scum player in general would avoid (the elimination of future strategic options) so DS is asserting that Faust is unlikely to be scum or a third party due to his claim.


However, I think scum could still claim town without it detrimenting then all that much, and a third party could still claim town and then come clean later, depending on the role. So it isn’t nearly as strong an argument as it could be IMO.

a) everything in the top section is a great summary of what I was trying to put forth (thank you Uncle)

b) but also, please note there is not argument coming from me in regards to faust's alignment. I am openly admitting, again... for the like 5th time... that I stand by my logic.. but it is is actually just MY LOGIC. I am stating MY OPINION on the matter of faust. I could absolutely be dead the hell wrong - I don't think I am... but that is not the point.

At no point in time has anyone even come close to arguing with me in regards to faust's actual alignment. all that has happened is RaeRae arguing with me about how I came to my conclusion. they have not in the time of our conversation ever once brought up what they think about faust - which is fine, as I wasn't asking for their opinion or anything... just want to point out that argument/discussion/whatever you want to call it is about how I got to my opinion.. not about the opinion itself. Raerae you said yourself you are not new to the game, so I kind of don't get what you are not grasping about this. I guess I just don't get why you are so hung up on it without giving an opinion on who is actually skummy or not skummy.

Actually let's check on that part - Raerae, where you at? Me an faust are both skummy, just me is skummy, just faust is skummy, neither of us is (are?) skummy, or you don't know as of now?

[Swowl]

inb4 he's scum and I'm dead wrong. But my gut also says town. Plus the attention thing faust mentioned is a good point.

let's vote: DatSwan. I hope your reads are better this game than last @faust

Seems somewhat disingenuous considering I have expressed a scumread on you.

Hold on... I am so confused... are you referencing the last game we played together where faust and I were masons and he day 1 called you out on being a Town PR Role... which you were? Or is it another game?

[silverspawn]

Yeah, I have no idea why I was voting for her, though, and you probably don't have a great reason, either, so I don't think that means as much.

......why you assuming Joseph's lack of reasons?

Also, why you not giving raerae and me vet-cred?  We got 5 MVPs between us.

In that case, I was just inactive for too long. So how many games did you play?

Silver, what changed?

Nothing changed, I was always and am still null on faust this game.

[silverspawn]

I'm not going to respond to the debatepro post because it strikes me as super hostile and getting into a fight about it as unhelpful. But if anyone else thinks any particular thing in it is a legitimate point, I can respond to that one.

[silverspawn]

inb4 he's scum and I'm dead wrong. But my gut also says town. Plus the attention thing faust mentioned is a good point.

let's vote: DatSwan. I hope your reads are better this game than last @faust

Seems somewhat disingenuous considering I have expressed a scumread on you.

Why does that make it disingenuous?

[faust]

inb4 he's scum and I'm dead wrong. But my gut also says town. Plus the attention thing faust mentioned is a good point.

let's vote: DatSwan. I hope your reads are better this game than last @faust

Seems somewhat disingenuous considering I have expressed a scumread on you.

Why does that make it disingenuous?

You hope that my reads are better than last time while at the same time supposedly having evidence that they are not all that great.

[faust]

Yeah, I have no idea why I was voting for her, though, and you probably don't have a great reason, either, so I don't think that means as much.

......why you assuming Joseph's lack of reasons?

Also, why you not giving raerae and me vet-cred?  We got 5 MVPs between us.

In that case, I was just inactive for too long. So how many games did you play?

Nah, they were active before you ever came here.

[silverspawn]

inb4 he's scum and I'm dead wrong. But my gut also says town. Plus the attention thing faust mentioned is a good point.

let's vote: DatSwan. I hope your reads are better this game than last @faust

Seems somewhat disingenuous considering I have expressed a scumread on you.

Why does that make it disingenuous?

You hope that my reads are better than last time while at the same time supposedly having evidence that they are not all that great.

Yeah, I don't see anything wrong with those two things. I think it was meant as a reminder that you were wrong about me last game. But I didn't put more than a few seconds of thought into the post or the vote. Voting for DatSwan doesn't imply a strong scumread, or even any scumread, really. It only really shows that I want to move the game somewhere else.

Nah, they were active before you ever came here.

Okay, noted.

[faust]

Anyway, let's talk EFHW. I am somewhat irritated by the fact that she hasn't really got much scrutiny at all.

vote: arishipshape. Cluttering the thread.

Here we have her policy voting.

raerae sounds like classic town!raerae, though I think I remember her being able to do that regardless of alignment.

I got a fleeting scum vibe re: MiX. Sitting on it for now. Not worth jumping on the wagon.

vote: Dylan for pressure.

This post is very strange. She says she has a scum read and proceeds to vote for someone she explicitly does not have a scumread on. And there's a raerae comment that really doesn't say anything at all.

I reread the game so far and I find that I agree with what has been said about MiX being scummy.

Developed some town reads, which is always helpful.

Holding off voting since it's so early, but once we have a rough consensus the day starts to feel over regardless.

PPE: silver

Continuing to throw shade at MiX without raising any new points or voting.

people just backed off because your vote total got too high too early.

This is incorrect.

But also correct. It's not why you voted elsewhere, but is why I didn't vote.

Well you can vote now.

You're right, but now I want to look it over again.

Here is more of her refusing to back up her reads with a vote.

I reread the thread again (!). I wanted to pull together the various cases on MiX. Here is what I found (post numbers may be off by one because I display posts with most recent ones first and that changes the numbering for some reason).

What is the point of this exercise, exactly?

Now what do I think?

That would be a good question to answer but at the end of that post I still have no idea what EFHW thinks.

re: whether to lynch MiX, another consideration is the effect of having such an active unknown continuing in the game. We may have trouble considering anyone else.

But how about Lalight?

i think at least one of silver/faust is scum, I've read nothing to move my vote from raerae, still think it's a good chance to catch scum there, DS sounds too inattentive which is weird for him

A few scummy things about this post.

And further on EFHW gives reasons to vote MiX (which she still does not actually do) and then (finally) shares another scumread, but without voting.

[EFHW]

I'm really mixed on MiX. I gave my opinions on the case but haven't come to a conclusion on him. You and silver both supporting him has also given me pause.

Some games I vote a lot, some I don't.  Can't explain it. I'll have some time today to flesh out the Lalight case.

[EFHW]

I've decided not to vote MiX. I think he's having fun, not being sneaky.

[MiX]

ss's defence on me almost splits the day in two, the before and after reply #444. This consolidates my townread on ss.

Smashes ss's defence on me & other things

@Debatepro, do you think ss is scummy for that defence?

@raerae, after ss's defence, do you still think your vote belongs on me? If so, why?

@EFHW, why haven't you voted...ever? What are you waiting for, the perfect scumread? The perfect case? Hammer?

@DatSwan, you still haven't finished the summary...at this point, the early people are outdated...like EFHW, I think there's more to say about her now. Oh and shraeye. And do you think lying about being town is above third_party!faust?

@faust, do you think that EFHW behavior matches town!EFHW or scum!EFHW? Or could it relate to activity, thus null? I've never seen her do such a low effort game (sorry!), not sure what to think about it.

@shraeye, Lynch All Lurkers and not lynching someone because they're active are very different, the difference lies in what happens with the people in betweeen: in the first one, they're safe, in the second one, they aren't. Who else do you have a scumread on? (Or as you would put it, who's a scumbuddy with me?)

So it turns out I have too much homework tonight and won't be able to catch up. Tomorrow looks to be a little clearer so we'll see what happens. I'm sorry, I didn't realize I'd be this busy

You are the key to this day, never give up.


I'll need to reread a bunch of people, hopefully I follow through and post my thoughts on them.

PPE 2: "mixed on MiX", finally, I was waiting for that even since the day started

[Joseph2302]

Yeah, I have no idea why I was voting for her, though, and you probably don't have a great reason, either, so I don't think that means as much.

......why you assuming Joseph's lack of reasons?

Also, why you not giving raerae and me vet-cred?  We got 5 MVPs between us.

And why am I a vet for that reason?
I only have 1 MVP

[faust]

ss's defence on me almost splits the day in two, the before and after reply #444. This consolidates my townread on ss.

What? All silver did in #444 was reiterate what I had already said.

[faust]

@faust, do you think that EFHW behavior matches town!EFHW or scum!EFHW? Or could it relate to activity, thus null? I've never seen her do such a low effort game (sorry!), not sure what to think about it.

Not sure yet. She has done a bunch of things that seem scummy but it's just so much that I am not sure scum would be that obvious. Then again I feel like I am somewhat decent at reading her, maybe it's just that she is scum and I can see it. I think I might want to revisit one of her older scum games.

Anyway I don't think it's just activity. She has spent a considerable amount of energy on stuff like compiling things people found scummy about you, she just has nothing to show for it.

[EFHW]

@EFHW, why haven't you voted...ever? What are you waiting for, the perfect scumread?

Apparently.

[EFHW]

Anyway I don't think it's just activity. She has spent a considerable amount of energy on stuff like compiling things people found scummy about you, she just has nothing to show for it.

Many research studies end up with negative results. Only the exciting findings are publishable.