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[Glooble]

Until that person claims and we're in the same boat.

I don't know man, it'll start to get suspicious at some point if everyone claims that their alignment can change to non-town and then messes up the claim.

You know what I mean. It won't be this exact thing, but it will be something makes us not want to lynch them that day. Scum will keep claiming whatever they think will keep them from getting lynched. If this works for LL whose to say it won't work for the next person? Or we force a townie to claim a powerful role and then they get Night Killed. Either way its good for scum and bad for us.

[Awaclus]

Scum will keep claiming whatever they think will keep them from getting lynched.

Great, then we can identify the scum on the basis on who claims something that would make us not want to lynch them. Looks like LaLight isn't scum according to that logic though.

[jotheonah]

Scum will keep claiming whatever they think will keep them from getting lynched.

Great, then we can identify the scum on the basis on who claims something that would make us not want to lynch them. Looks like LaLight isn't scum according to that logic though.

The claim appears to have worked on you, mail-mi, and e.

The one thing I'd like to wait a bit for, since we have the time, is Robz to catch up and weigh in. But I don't plan to move my vote.

[WestCoastDidds]

I don’t think Awa is wrong, exactly. We could wait to lynch LL, but it doesn’t seem like there is significant scumminess happening elsewhere. Robz and DatSwan have both been scarce, so perhaps they’ll be able to get out from under on the weekend and can be more engaged. Hard to know. I don’t see any reason to hurry a lynch, regardless, so we have time to keep thinking although if feels like we’ve stalled somewhat. My vote intention is still there.

I went back and read Breaking Bad because I’m new to sone of these mechanics and on thing someone said was that in RMM games, the most informative stuff usually happens at night. Is that accurate? Do we need to know more about what happened N1 (which began rather abruptly), or do we need more info from N2 before we have a better sense? In that game the fake claims were the keys to the castle. So perhaps we should scrutinize the stuff that doesn’t quite make sense (which I think we’ve been doing with Hyper and LL).

The day ends at 1 am on Tuesday...so Monday night for the US folks. (This is just to remind me!)

[LaLight]

Do you understand there’s no incentive for me to change alignment now? I do not really want to do it, i can help town. And i wasn’t offered to anyway.

[jotheonah]

LaLight, if you are town the best thing you can do right now is try to give us another option. Scumhunt. Make a case. I've noticed that that is not something you've chosen to do in response to your wagon and it's part of why I think you are in fact scum.

[Haddock]

Do you understand there’s no incentive for me to change alignment now? I do not really want to do it, i can help town. And i wasn’t offered to anyway.

According to your own claim, you have no choice in the matter; you have no control over your own alignment.  It sucks for you, but you have to see how we are struggling to let that pass.  You are a totally loose cannon.

[mail-mi]

Do you understand there’s no incentive for me to change alignment now? I do not really want to do it, i can help town. And i wasn’t offered to anyway.

According to your own claim, you have no choice in the matter; you have no control over your own alignment.  It sucks for you, but you have to see how we are struggling to let that pass.  You are a totally loose cannon.

That goes directly against the setup rules. The way I read LaLight's claim was "If I visit someone sucessfully, I then get the choice to switch my alignment." The visiting is compulsive, not the alignment changing. Is that right, LaLight?

Also (I can't believe I'm saying this) everyone should listen to Awaclus because he's making sense right now about Lalight. I am not sad with a LaLight lynch but would be much happier elsewhere (like, say, joth, whose recent posts haven't changed my read on him). Lalight can always be lynched later.

[Glooble]

But what is actually the advantage to lynching him later as opposed to now?

[jotheonah]

But what is actually the advantage to lynching him later as opposed to now?

Dingdingding

Arguing to delay a lynch is a good way to argue against a lynch without looking like you're arguing against a lynch.

[jotheonah]

LaLight has done nothing to deserve a pass. If you believe her claim, she has a role that is at best useless and at worst anti-town. If you don't believe her claim, she's scum.

[hypercube]

Do you understand there’s no incentive for me to change alignment now? I do not really want to do it, i can help town. And i wasn’t offered to anyway.

Personally, I think it's good that there's no way for you to win now if you change alignment so you're forced to do your best to help town if you want to win.

[Awaclus]

But what is actually the advantage to lynching him later as opposed to now?

1) getting a more informative lynch instead, which is good to get sooner rather than later because of inflation
2) getting other info on LaLight in the meantime

[Awaclus]

Arguing to delay a lynch is a good way to argue against a lynch without looking like you're arguing against a lynch.

No it isn't. It's a good way to argue to delay a lynch.

[jotheonah]

What makes you think the LaLight flip won't be informative? I think it will be extremely informative.

[Awaclus]

What makes you think the LaLight flip won't be informative? I think it will be extremely informative.

Because nobody has an incentive to be opposed to his lynch, regardless of anyone's alignment in the equation. I already said as much.

[Swowl]

OK so I have just been playing catchup (sorry) work has been a nightmare. I keep reading up and then realizing a ton of stuff happened while I was gone and then reading again... and etc etc. So I am just gonna post major points here and get to deets later. First off:

alright then

I am Queter, a Radch-Aligned Shy Bugged Compulsive Visitor. I have to visit someone every night. If I don't get targeted by anyone and my Visit will be successful, I will become Self-Aligned with powers and win condition yet unknown. Bugged part of my role is that if investigated I will return Human or AI result with 50% probability for each. N1 I targeted Haddock and nothing happened.

LL, can you help me understand this better? You visited Haddock, but your visit was not successful since you did not become Self-aligned? (Is targeted the same as visited?)

Well, I targeted Haddock. I have no idea if I was visiting him in the end (I might've been roleblocked or I might've been visited). Or maybe Haddovck commuted or was rolestopped. I have no idea, but I did not have a choice to change alignment, basically I didn't get any response

- I do not think this comes as skum. It could come off as a Survivor claim, but it could also come off as a SK claim or skum claim. I think on the spot like LL was, they would of taken a different route as skum in regards to the content of their claim.

- Additionally I know what my role is, and there is a specific part of it that by no means "clears" LL here... but also pushes me in the direction of believing them.

[Glooble]

What makes you think the LaLight flip won't be informative? I think it will be extremely informative.

Because nobody has an incentive to be opposed to his lynch, regardless of anyone's alignment in the equation. I already said as much.

I just don’t agree with that. Scum has incentive to oppose it. And look who’s opposing it. You. How about that?

[jotheonah]

OK so I have just been playing catchup (sorry) work has been a nightmare. I keep reading up and then realizing a ton of stuff happened while I was gone and then reading again... and etc etc. So I am just gonna post major points here and get to deets later. First off:

alright then

I am Queter, a Radch-Aligned Shy Bugged Compulsive Visitor. I have to visit someone every night. If I don't get targeted by anyone and my Visit will be successful, I will become Self-Aligned with powers and win condition yet unknown. Bugged part of my role is that if investigated I will return Human or AI result with 50% probability for each. N1 I targeted Haddock and nothing happened.

LL, can you help me understand this better? You visited Haddock, but your visit was not successful since you did not become Self-aligned? (Is targeted the same as visited?)

Well, I targeted Haddock. I have no idea if I was visiting him in the end (I might've been roleblocked or I might've been visited). Or maybe Haddovck commuted or was rolestopped. I have no idea, but I did not have a choice to change alignment, basically I didn't get any response

- I do not think this comes as skum. It could come off as a Survivor claim, but it could also come off as a SK claim or skum claim. I think on the spot like LL was, they would of taken a different route as skum in regards to the content of their claim.

- Additionally I know what my role is, and there is a specific part of it that by no means "clears" LL here... but also pushes me in the direction of believing them.

What do you make of the whole “doesn’t work in the rules” thing?

[Awaclus]

Scum has incentive to oppose it. And look who’s opposing it. You. How about that?

Not true and not true. Scum does not have an incentive to oppose it, and I'm not opposing it.

[Glooble]

Scum has incentive to oppose it. And look who’s opposing it. You. How about that?

Not true and not true. Scum does not have an incentive to oppose it, and I'm not opposing it.

Scum might intentionally bus a partner especially if they think defending them is too dangerous but scum is absolutely incentivized to keep themselves alive, especially this early.

[Haddock]

Oh by the way I keep meaning to say, if I haven't already: there is nothing I did N1 that would have prevented LaLight's claimed thing from happening.

[Swowl]

OK so I have just been playing catchup (sorry) work has been a nightmare. I keep reading up and then realizing a ton of stuff happened while I was gone and then reading again... and etc etc. So I am just gonna post major points here and get to deets later. First off:

alright then

I am Queter, a Radch-Aligned Shy Bugged Compulsive Visitor. I have to visit someone every night. If I don't get targeted by anyone and my Visit will be successful, I will become Self-Aligned with powers and win condition yet unknown. Bugged part of my role is that if investigated I will return Human or AI result with 50% probability for each. N1 I targeted Haddock and nothing happened.

LL, can you help me understand this better? You visited Haddock, but your visit was not successful since you did not become Self-aligned? (Is targeted the same as visited?)

Well, I targeted Haddock. I have no idea if I was visiting him in the end (I might've been roleblocked or I might've been visited). Or maybe Haddovck commuted or was rolestopped. I have no idea, but I did not have a choice to change alignment, basically I didn't get any response

- I do not think this comes as skum. It could come off as a Survivor claim, but it could also come off as a SK claim or skum claim. I think on the spot like LL was, they would of taken a different route as skum in regards to the content of their claim.

- Additionally I know what my role is, and there is a specific part of it that by no means "clears" LL here... but also pushes me in the direction of believing them.

What do you make of the whole “doesn’t work in the rules” thing?

I think either i am wrong and LL made a mistake when fake claiming (unlikely imo)... or the “self aligned” role would have some sort of variable in the untold part that is similar to hyper cubes (i.e. everything goes through and instead of becoming self aligned automatically they are given some form of choice or parameters). Or the third option where i just don’t know - it is the only hold up i currently havenon LL- i keep remembering Lost when they were SK and messed up there claim day 2 there so i am fighting with myself currently

[WestCoastDidds]

Welcome back, Swan! You’ve been missed. I hope the post-vacation letdown/jet lag hasn’t clobbered you.

Our insight has kind of stalled, so get to reading!

[jotheonah]

OK so I have just been playing catchup (sorry) work has been a nightmare. I keep reading up and then realizing a ton of stuff happened while I was gone and then reading again... and etc etc. So I am just gonna post major points here and get to deets later. First off:

alright then

I am Queter, a Radch-Aligned Shy Bugged Compulsive Visitor. I have to visit someone every night. If I don't get targeted by anyone and my Visit will be successful, I will become Self-Aligned with powers and win condition yet unknown. Bugged part of my role is that if investigated I will return Human or AI result with 50% probability for each. N1 I targeted Haddock and nothing happened.

LL, can you help me understand this better? You visited Haddock, but your visit was not successful since you did not become Self-aligned? (Is targeted the same as visited?)

Well, I targeted Haddock. I have no idea if I was visiting him in the end (I might've been roleblocked or I might've been visited). Or maybe Haddovck commuted or was rolestopped. I have no idea, but I did not have a choice to change alignment, basically I didn't get any response

- I do not think this comes as skum. It could come off as a Survivor claim, but it could also come off as a SK claim or skum claim. I think on the spot like LL was, they would of taken a different route as skum in regards to the content of their claim.

- Additionally I know what my role is, and there is a specific part of it that by no means "clears" LL here... but also pushes me in the direction of believing them.

What do you make of the whole “doesn’t work in the rules” thing?

I think either i am wrong and LL made a mistake when fake claiming (unlikely imo)... or the “self aligned” role would have some sort of variable in the untold part that is similar to hyper cubes (i.e. everything goes through and instead of becoming self aligned automatically they are given some form of choice or parameters). Or the third option where i just don’t know - it is the only hold up i currently havenon LL- i keep remembering Lost when they were SK and messed up there claim day 2 there so i am fighting with myself currently

I think it’s a little too convenient that LaLight forgot to mention the optional part of her conversion until someone pointed it out.