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[Swowl]

Good morning, folks!

Hi Haddock....in your giant post you quoted me and said that in regard to plan discussions that I had completely missed the point. So, uhm, yeah....that is accurate. I’m newish to the game (this is my 5th game) and something’s that are obvious to others take me awhile to work out. I think I miss the point of posts quite a bit at first, but improve with time....or at least that is my hope.

I am still confused about how Asher got lynched with only 5 votes so far from the deadline. Is there a power that can end the day, and then it’s the plurality vote? Is that more likely than two people having an extra vote? And did Asher’s shot give her immunity?

You may have missed it, but I claimed the 5 vote lynch part.  I two took less votes to lynch than normal.

Did it take 2 less to lynch you because you used your shot, or was that inevitable?

[Swowl]

I wish I was an SK here.  MVP win last time out.

It's been a long time since I've played a game with joth, I think.  What I don't remember is if shutdown-ignore everything-confirmation bias joth is scum!joth or town!joth.

As most would know, I'm always happy to get lynched just to say I told you so.  My green flip just proves you wrong and proves me right.

vote: ash

What are you attempting to prove here? Why would you vote yourself?

[Swowl]

I basically completely believe that Ash is town at this point, and I'm definitely leaning towards voting for joth for SK hunting etc..

One thing I wanted to point out is this post when Swan jumps off the Ash wagon:

So, here’s what I don’t get... Why did Ashersky kill mcmc when she did? Especially when she didn’t think she was scum? It’s seems pretty anti-town to choose the only marginally largest wagon with a full day left to talk before DL and shoot before letting her claim or allowing more votes to coalesce before the kill. Especially if she really thought Glooble was more scummy.

I’m not trying to be dense (I’m still kinda new at this), so it would help if someone could explain to me how that shot at this time helps town.

Hetnys, in the books, is Radchaii but is also not regally on the right side of things and end up being held hostage by Breq (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancillary_Sword).

I am assuming there is a modifier on ashes role where “they have to shoot or X happens”.... prettty much bc i agree with you that thier actions don’t make a ton of sense as skum. Draws way too much attention.

Unvote

It's weird to me since Swan is saying that she agrees with WCD that Ash's actions don't make sense as scum (which I agree with), but in the post that Swan is actually quoting WCD is making the case that Ash is scum. So, it reads to me like Swan was really looking for an excuse to jump off that wagon.

I'm not sure if that means anything (it seemed more important before Ash claimed double-hated), but I figured I'd point it out anyways.

I was playing catch up and this was the quote I was on - just wanted to make sure it was being directed at WCD.

[Swowl]

Is there anything else you can tell us about it hypercube?

The third faction could win alongside town, however if the leader dies all its members will be endgamed and die as well.

So, the third faction is a potential ally to town or a serious potential liability down the road. I'm not really sure how to approach the question of whether to hunt them or not.

So this makes me feel like there is a person out there that can recruit players to a "town kind of aligned third faction" which can actually work against town. Example being if on, let's say, Day 4 They have recruited 3 people... and then we kill the recruiting player... that would mean Town (or "not skum") would lose 4 heads on the spot. Just something to keep in mind.

[Swowl]

Yeah this flavor is messing with me a little bit because I do not know it at all. Trying to comprehend it, but essentially I do not see how Ashes can be skum if it is not both E! and Ashes. I need to just vanilla read back Day 1 to see who I think is skummy while dropping my lack of understanding of the flavor.. so that will come shortly.

[2.71828.....]

Yeah, really not a fan of hypercube trying to figure out who the survivor-cult leader is.  I am of the strong opinion that they should remain anonymous.

SK hunting may be townie to a certain extent, but survivor hunting is just not really worth it. Need to just find the scum.

And I need to reread a bit based on all the new information

[2.71828.....]

Another thing, flavor has identifying characteristics, but it will not win the game for us, so I wouldn't focus on it too much

[LaLight]

Ashersky is Radch-aligned.

And yeah, sounds like a very interesting survivor role for the 3rd party. Wonder if they can recruit scum too?

This will break the game if we agree that faust would not make the game where scum do not know each other. I think the point that they will die if they recruit scum is also not really believable.

Maybe they get Hated?

[LaLight]

My thought now is to use them to basically establish an IC each day? Accept the change in alignment, you stay alive, but we count things like lylo in light of the fact that a single NK could eliminate 2-3 or more players

Do we have any reason to believe the members of this faction just straight up die when their leader does? My assumption would be they're still in the game, they just can't win.

"They're still in a game and just can't win" doesn't work. People are not motivated, they won't play. I think there was an example of smth like this in Bastard Mafia but I don't remember which one. Dying altogether... Well, I guess there is like 2 or 3 of them and they need to keep their boss alive if they don't they die so for a faction of 2 or 3 people that'd work.

[LaLight]

Catch-up thought #1: Why weren't any of the people posting today before Joth did asking about why he's hated? I had originally asked myself "why is nobody talking about this", and then it seemed a bit odd that Joth himself had to end up being the one to bring it up.

I don't see the point of asking, by anyone or even by Joth himself. If some town role did it they will just say "Sorry joth that was me", if scum did it, they won't confess, so we mostly are talking about stuff that can be somehow deduced and spoken about

[LaLight]

Another thing, flavor has identifying characteristics, but it will not win the game for us, so I wouldn't focus on it too much

Yeah, all this flavor talk is really cool and all, but i am afraid those who are familiar will narrow their vision based on flavor. faust wouldn't ever make a game which can be solved based on flavor, or any parts of the game solved by flavor, so i think this is just harmful to talk about it so much. I try to treat this game as flavorless when i reread

[LaLight]

my vote for ash in the end of the previous day was like that because I messed up all the timings and still thought it was EoD even in the start of D2 and I thought there was no time left at all. I also had a little time on my hands, I was sure ash is scum so i voted and disappeared

[LaLight]

Joth's SK hunting was a little bit suspicious, but I liked the justification of it

[LaLight]

vote: 2.71828.....

[LaLight]

1-shot cop is also something I would expect useful for the guys who can't recruit scum.

[LaLight]

oh, and we don't have any reason to believe it's 1-shot. Survivor-cult-cop is so beautifully elegant

[ashersky]

I think questions for me were all about the Hated?  Trade off for shooting.

[ashersky]

For the record, I take credit for the mcmc shot. I was just explaining how I chose my target when talking about shooting the biggest wagon.

For the record, I would have shot Gloob or Space if I chose on my own.

[ashersky]

True Cult Leader role would result in mass death if it dies. Close to BM, too. I’d assume some protection from that.

The explanation we saw makes it sound like multiple players have Aanander as a flavor name, probably as different alignments.

I think we just ignore them.

[LaLight]

The explanation we saw makes it sound like multiple players have Aanander as a flavor name, probably as different alignments.

oh i haven't thought about that. interesting point

[ashersky]

To expand on a theory based on a claim that is unconfirmed but seems crazy if fake...

Let's say there are three Aananders: green, red, and blue.  For the cult to win, both green and red Aananders have to die AND all threats to town have to be nullified.

If that's the case, it's in the Cult's best interest to play like town, except for lynching gA.  rA dies when scum is removed from the game, leaving bA.  At some point, someone in the Cult could decide to claim and say ask for gA to sacrifice themselves -- probably near endgame and with rA being dead.

This is just a spitball setup creation sort of thing.  If the modified towncult is the centerpiece of the setup, you build around it.  Aanander (clone?) cops, for example, could be a thing (i.e., each night you may target a player; if they share a flavor name with another player, you will be informed of that fact).  Then the cop doesn't even need to know it's A, although flavor tells you that maybe.

Anyway.  The danger here is if the Cult is actually a Cult, then it wouldn't share town's wincon.  They could win separately and the game ends, or they leave.  Then we'd be left having played for them.

So, if anything, any and all Cult related matters should be dealt with in a manner to further the green wincon, not theirs.

[2.71828.....]

So, if anything, any and all Cult related matters should be dealt with in a manner to further the green wincon, not theirs.

Which is why I am really happy about hypercube's decision to reject the cult. He dies, flips green, and we can totally trust everything he has said

[hypercube]

I'm not really a fan of most people not voting (including me), so I did a quick reread to try and fix that. I came to the conclusion that I should vote: mail-me.

I think her case against joth (521-522) is kind of scummy and OMGUS. A lot of it is just fluff I think rather than actual reasons why joth is scum. I also don't like her vote placement D1, she spends most of her time voting for me and joth, who I think were the two players who would most likely look like mislynches to scum.

Also her reaction to ash's shot was very null, and it seemed like she didn't really consider what it meant regarding ash's alignment until she was challenged on it.

It's not an amazing case by any means. But I couldn't find a better one either.

[hypercube]

Sorry that should be vote: mail-mi of course.

[hypercube]

So, if anything, any and all Cult related matters should be dealt with in a manner to further the green wincon, not theirs.

Which is why I am really happy about hypercube's decision to reject the cult. He dies, flips green, and we can totally trust everything he has said

Yes, to be clear, everything I said about the cult came directly from faust, so once I am dead there should be no reason to doubt it.