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[faust]

faust, can you confirm that vote count 1.4 was correct?

I missed that vote.

[LaLight]

vote: ash

[hypercube]

Cool cool. Anybody else feel like this Ash plan was kinda bad?

Nope! I'm not saying it was necessarily the optimal play there, but I like it because it's based on legitimate mod-mediated PR usage.

Can you explain this further? Specifically the "legitimate, mod-mediated" part (how can a PR usage be illegitimate?) and why that means the plan wasn't bad.

[mail-mi]

I don't think ash is scum.

[Glooble]

I don't think ash is scum.

Cool. I do. Care to elaborate?

[mail-mi]

I don't think ash is scum.

Cool. I do. Care to elaborate?

Well a. Cause of setup stuff, (it would be hard to balance a dayvig as scum (granted, if anyone could do it faust could)) and b it just seems like normal ash

Though now that I think about it, all the dayvigs in my memory have been town, and so it would be unique for Faust to do a scum dayvig.... I guess that's all wifom though.

Anyway I don't think we should lynch ash today, but he's not IC by any means. Definitely worth scrutiny on future days

[Glooble]

Do we have mod confirmation that this is not multiball? Though I guess ash’s behavior makes even less sense as SK.

[jotheonah]

It seems pretty unlikely that a multi shot, or even one-shot, dayvig is town.

Am I misreading this, or are you saying that you think Ash is non-town?

I'm confused because you go on to suggest not lynching him.

Sorry. I meant to say "is scum".

[mail-mi]

Do we have mod confirmation that this is not multiball? Though I guess ash’s behavior makes even less sense as SK.

No

[jotheonah]

Ash, come tell us why your plan isn't as objectively terrible as it looks.

[2.71828.....]

Ash, come tell us why your plan isn't as objectively terrible as it looks.

Because it looks terrible. Scum!Ash can make some pretty bold moves, but so can town!Ash. I think a bad plan for town would look better and end up worse. This is obviously not a win-the-game-D1 plan, but one that should help us in the long run.

I want to see this play out, at least through D2. And I don't really want Ashersky to give any more details on his plan until at least D2. So let's try not lying him

[2.71828.....]

Ash, come tell us why your plan isn't as objectively terrible as it looks.

Because it looks terrible. Scum!Ash can make some pretty bold moves, but so can town!Ash. I think a bad plan for town would look better and end up worse. This is obviously not a win-the-game-D1 plan, but one that should help us in the long run.

I want to see this play out, at least through D2. And I don't really want Ashersky to give any more details on his plan until at least D2. So let's try not lying* him

*Lynching

[Haddock]

Hey guys!
Heck i have much much to catch up with.
I will read up as best as I can in the next 24 hrs. This evening I'm hosting a dinner party so am effectively afk for tonight.

Thoughts to come as soon as I possibly can. Good to be playing again though.

[Awaclus]

Why is dayvigging the biggest wagon a bad idea? Ash essentially gave town another lynch.

[SpaceAnemone]

Nope! I'm not saying it was necessarily the optimal play there, but I like it because it's based on legitimate mod-mediated PR usage.

Can you explain this further? Specifically the "legitimate, mod-mediated" part (how can a PR usage be illegitimate?) and why that means the plan wasn't bad.

I mean his "plan" here is just the use of his PR, in a way the mod planned for and mediated. It isn't something more wacky like I'd kind of been expecting.

In the last RMM I played with him, he presented two plans and the discussion later concluded that neither were particularly helpful to town. I see in that RMM game I was also totally unimpressed that people were stalling waiting for ash's plan, because as usual he announced that he talked about the existence of a plan long before he intended to reveal it :-P

Wasn't there another game where his plan involved lying to town about his role and claiming he could IC himself where in fact the only "ICing" that he could achieve was that he'd flip town when he died?

[jotheonah]

Why is dayvigging the biggest wagon a bad idea? Ash essentially gave town another lynch.

Without giving mcmc the opportunity to claim and without giving us enough time to use that info to make an informed decision. And remember, he wanted us to have even less time. As I said before:

what good is information when we have no time to use it? Especially in a format with a mandatory lynch. Day 1 lynch is always most likely town, so Ash’s plan was “have twice as many day 1 lynches, kill twice as much town”?

[jotheonah]

The only reason I'm not voting ashersky is I think he's unlikely to be scum with that power. But that leaves me thinking she's town that's playing really badly, and that doesn't sit super well with me with what I know of ashersky.

It has no bearing at this juncture, but we often discuss having vig shots directed.  But there is thecscum element there that can’t be erased. Instead, I used the flow of day and the votes.

Honestly, if I had chosen by myself, I’d have shot Glooble.

This makes zero sense to me. Ash is saying "I didn't want to have town direct my shot, because then scum would manipulate it." (so far so good). So instead, I let myself be guided by the top wagon, because clearly there's no possibility that scum is manipulating that.

(I am of course being sarcastic. There is every possibility that the largest day one wagon is on town and being manipulated by scum, in fact it's much, much more likely than not.)

Someone convince me that ashersky could be scum without the set up being broken because I badly want to vote for her.

[LaLight]

The only reason I'm not voting ashersky is I think he's unlikely to be scum with that power. But that leaves me thinking she's town that's playing really badly, and that doesn't sit super well with me with what I know of ashersky.

It has no bearing at this juncture, but we often discuss having vig shots directed.  But there is thecscum element there that can’t be erased. Instead, I used the flow of day and the votes.

Honestly, if I had chosen by myself, I’d have shot Glooble.

This makes zero sense to me. Ash is saying "I didn't want to have town direct my shot, because then scum would manipulate it." (so far so good). So instead, I let myself be guided by the top wagon, because clearly there's no possibility that scum is manipulating that.

(I am of course being sarcastic. There is every possibility that the largest day one wagon is on town and being manipulated by scum, in fact it's much, much more likely than not.)

Someone convince me that ashersky could be scum without the set up being broken because I badly want to vote for her.

I played a normal game on another site where scum team had 1 dayvig shot. Also maybe they should forgo the nk now. Or he’s a third party. Pick one

[jotheonah]

The only reason I'm not voting ashersky is I think he's unlikely to be scum with that power. But that leaves me thinking she's town that's playing really badly, and that doesn't sit super well with me with what I know of ashersky.

It has no bearing at this juncture, but we often discuss having vig shots directed.  But there is thecscum element there that can’t be erased. Instead, I used the flow of day and the votes.

Honestly, if I had chosen by myself, I’d have shot Glooble.

This makes zero sense to me. Ash is saying "I didn't want to have town direct my shot, because then scum would manipulate it." (so far so good). So instead, I let myself be guided by the top wagon, because clearly there's no possibility that scum is manipulating that.

(I am of course being sarcastic. There is every possibility that the largest day one wagon is on town and being manipulated by scum, in fact it's much, much more likely than not.)

Someone convince me that ashersky could be scum without the set up being broken because I badly want to vote for her.

I played a normal game on another site where scum team had 1 dayvig shot. Also maybe they should forgo the nk now. Or he’s a third party. Pick one

Good enough for me. vote: ash

[WestCoastDidds]

So, here’s what I don’t get... Why did Ashersky kill mcmc when she did? Especially when she didn’t think she was scum? It’s seems pretty anti-town to choose the only marginally largest wagon with a full day left to talk before DL and shoot before letting her claim or allowing more votes to coalesce before the kill. Especially if she really thought Glooble was more scummy.

I’m not trying to be dense (I’m still kinda new at this), so it would help if someone could explain to me how that shot at this time helps town.

Hetnys, in the books, is Radchaii but is also not regally on the right side of things and end up being held hostage by Breq (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancillary_Sword).

[WestCoastDidds]

Do we have mod confirmation that this is not multiball? Though I guess ash’s behavior makes even less sense as SK.

Can you tell me what this means? What’s multiball?

[Glooble]

Do we have mod confirmation that this is not multiball? Though I guess ash’s behavior makes even less sense as SK.

Can you tell me what this means? What’s multiball?

SK is serial killer, a scum-aligned player who wins on their own. Multiball just means more than one scum faction.

Trouble is if ash is a serial killer she’s playing even worse than if she’s town. Unless she’s a serial killer who can only kill during the day which... seems like a very poorly designed role.

[Swowl]

So, here’s what I don’t get... Why did Ashersky kill mcmc when she did? Especially when she didn’t think she was scum? It’s seems pretty anti-town to choose the only marginally largest wagon with a full day left to talk before DL and shoot before letting her claim or allowing more votes to coalesce before the kill. Especially if she really thought Glooble was more scummy.

I’m not trying to be dense (I’m still kinda new at this), so it would help if someone could explain to me how that shot at this time helps town.

Hetnys, in the books, is Radchaii but is also not regally on the right side of things and end up being held hostage by Breq (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancillary_Sword).

I am assuming there is a modifier on ashes role where “they have to shoot or X happens”.... prettty much bc i agree with you that thier actions don’t make a ton of sense as skum. Draws way too much attention.

Unvote

[Swowl]

Actually to that point I guess it could be a negative modifier as skum like LL pointes our. I need to catch up since the shot.

[faust]

Day 1 Final Vote Count

Robz888 (1): Haddock
hypercube (1): Robz888
DatSwan (1): Awaclus
ashersky (5): DatSwan, WestCoastDidds, Glooble, LaLight, jotheonah
jotheonah (2): mail-mi, 2.71828.....
2.71828..... (1): hypercube

Not Voting (2): ashersky, SpaceAnemone

With 13 alive, it took 7 to lynch.