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[Witherweaver]

Is Galzria a new player or one of the older ones that hasn't been in recent games?

The answer is in my sig, and is neither. I was in 100, 102, 105, and RMM45, as well as being one of the oldest members in f.ds mafia history.

Right, well, I guess I'm the one who hasn't been in the recent games.

[O]

Oh thank god at least someone understands my refusal to lynch on the basis of punctuation!?&shift1

[Swowl]

Oh thank god at least someone understands my refusal to lynch on the basis of punctuation!?&shift1

Fwiw - also agree with this. It is the reason I un voted him a few days back. It does seem like the speculation on Gkrieg is kind of based on pretty far fetched stuff at this point. Not all votes, some people have made at least some reasonable notes... but if anyone is actually voting based on exclamation marks right now... probably not the best move.

[faust]

So, you people refusing to vote for gkrieg because there is no case... are you going to present the awesome case on the people that you ARE voting for some time soon?

[O]

So, you people refusing to vote for gkrieg because there is no case... are you going to present the awesome case on the people that you ARE voting for some time soon?

I've presented it like 4 times now tho. It's by far a more substantive case that Gkriegs, while still being a really weak case. That's how awful the Gkrieg case is.

in fact FOS on you for ignoring it

[faust]

So, you people refusing to vote for gkrieg because there is no case... are you going to present the awesome case on the people that you ARE voting for some time soon?

I've presented it like 4 times now tho. It's by far a more substantive case that Gkriegs, while still being a really weak case. That's how awful the Gkrieg case is.

in fact FOS on you for ignoring it

Ah wow. Well here goes:

Vote: Witherweaver

Delayed OMGUS!

And yet still more reason than you provided.

Actually most of your posts are unhelpful, contentless and lacking in humor. Gotta at least make it funny or include a block of meaningless text mate

You're complaining that WW has not provided a reason after voting him without stating a reason is a bit rich. Other than that I fail to see how that's more substantial than what we've heard against gkrieg, which, by the way, is NOT only exclamation marks and the people suggesting that it is are super scummy.

Vote: O

[O]

So, you people refusing to vote for gkrieg because there is no case... are you going to present the awesome case on the people that you ARE voting for some time soon?

I've presented it like 4 times now tho. It's by far a more substantive case that Gkriegs, while still being a really weak case. That's how awful the Gkrieg case is.

in fact FOS on you for ignoring it

Ah wow. Well here goes:

Vote: Witherweaver

Delayed OMGUS!

And yet still more reason than you provided.

Actually most of your posts are unhelpful, contentless and lacking in humor. Gotta at least make it funny or include a block of meaningless text mate

You're complaining that WW has not provided a reason after voting him without stating a reason is a bit rich. Other than that I fail to see how that's more substantial than what we've heard against gkrieg, which, by the way, is NOT only exclamation marks and the people suggesting that it is are super scummy.

Vote: O

so you still haven't read the case, then.

[O]

Two days left and WW and I are the two main wagons? Not sure I really like that.

Yeah well, I don't really understand the WW wagon. Can anyone explain why it would be a good idea to vote there?

Because primarily asking questions as a form of post content might be a personal meta, but its just as easily a scum tactic as it provides "non-contentless post count" to people reading WW while providing no opinions or reads to be held to at any later point.

especially scummy since it was directly in response to you already asking about what the case is

[faust]

Two days left and WW and I are the two main wagons? Not sure I really like that.

Yeah well, I don't really understand the WW wagon. Can anyone explain why it would be a good idea to vote there?

Because primarily asking questions as a form of post content might be a personal meta, but its just as easily a scum tactic as it provides "non-contentless post count" to people reading WW while providing no opinions or reads to be held to at any later point.

especially scummy since it was directly in response to you already asking about what the case is

Wow, so you can be helpful!

Sorry that I'm not very into the game right now. I have family visiting and am mildly busy. Now would you explain to me what scum!me gains from ignoring your case?

[faust]

Oh thank god at least someone understands my refusal to lynch on the basis of punctuation!?&shift1

Fwiw - also agree with this. It is the reason I un voted him a few days back. It does seem like the speculation on Gkrieg is kind of based on pretty far fetched stuff at this point. Not all votes, some people have made at least some reasonable notes... but if anyone is actually voting based on exclamation marks right now... probably not the best move.

But you know, this is actually pretty right coming from the guy who said this:

Can everyone state or recap their reasons for voting Gkrieg?

1) Mainly the post content with, from what I can find, like 0 attempts at hunting.
2) I don't know why it bothers me, but he seems to care to much about this Redirector bit.

PPE

Vote: DatSwan I think.

[faust]

*right=rich

[O]

Two days left and WW and I are the two main wagons? Not sure I really like that.

Yeah well, I don't really understand the WW wagon. Can anyone explain why it would be a good idea to vote there?

Because primarily asking questions as a form of post content might be a personal meta, but its just as easily a scum tactic as it provides "non-contentless post count" to people reading WW while providing no opinions or reads to be held to at any later point.

especially scummy since it was directly in response to you already asking about what the case is

Wow, so you can be helpful!

Sorry that I'm not very into the game right now. I have family visiting and am mildly busy. Now would you explain to me what scum!me gains from ignoring your case?

Lets summarize here:

1) You ask for the case
2) I provide a completely not sarcastic summary of the case (which I did not claim was strong)
3) You ask for the case again, claiming nobody has provided one
4) I point out that I have provided the case, admittedly somewhat aggressively
5) You quote a mostly joking post -- in which I intentionally vote without a reason to mimic his behavior -- as my case. I understand how this can be confusing. You claim it's a bit rich.
6) I point you with a direct quote to the case, which is directly responding to you.
7) You aggressively say "so you can be helpful"


who is actually being more unhelpful here Faust? I might have less manners in my average post but you're entirely in the wrong here.

It's scummy because it's defending WW without stating an opinion based on the reality of the situation (I.E. defending him by arguing against the case). If WW is scum, it's obvious why it's scummy. If WW is town, it's the kind of low-effort white knighting that scum defending town tends to do.

[faust]

Sorry. I know I was a bit aggressive there, that's not a nice tone. You are right that I should not have responded that way. I apologize. I know part of it is just mild annoyance about past performance, but I will try harder to not let that bleed into this game.

As far as the WW case goes, I guess I don't see the scumminess there. I agree that questions are easier for scum than reads, but they are also a pro-town thing, and I thought WW's reaction to the Poisoner claim before was on the townie side.

[Swowl]

Oh thank god at least someone understands my refusal to lynch on the basis of punctuation!?&shift1

Fwiw - also agree with this. It is the reason I un voted him a few days back. It does seem like the speculation on Gkrieg is kind of based on pretty far fetched stuff at this point. Not all votes, some people have made at least some reasonable notes... but if anyone is actually voting based on exclamation marks right now... probably not the best move.

But you know, this is actually pretty right coming from the guy who said this:

Can everyone state or recap their reasons for voting Gkrieg?

1) Mainly the post content with, from what I can find, like 0 attempts at hunting.
2) I don't know why it bothers me, but he seems to care to much about this Redirector bit.

PPE

Vote: DatSwan I think.

So I know you are openly admitting to the whole "not into the game now" but and all but you should re read to the part where I admit I don't any longer think there is a solid gkrieg case and un vote him.
Also - I said now that I don't think the whole !! Thing is valid and when asked previously it wasn't on my list bc I still thought it was nonsense then.

I don't get it are you like purposefully taking things out of context thinking it's just gonna slide in or something?

[faust]

Oh thank god at least someone understands my refusal to lynch on the basis of punctuation!?&shift1

Fwiw - also agree with this. It is the reason I un voted him a few days back. It does seem like the speculation on Gkrieg is kind of based on pretty far fetched stuff at this point. Not all votes, some people have made at least some reasonable notes... but if anyone is actually voting based on exclamation marks right now... probably not the best move.

But you know, this is actually pretty right coming from the guy who said this:

Can everyone state or recap their reasons for voting Gkrieg?

1) Mainly the post content with, from what I can find, like 0 attempts at hunting.
2) I don't know why it bothers me, but he seems to care to much about this Redirector bit.

PPE

Vote: DatSwan I think.

So I know you are openly admitting to the whole "not into the game now" but and all but you should re read to the part where I admit I don't any longer think there is a solid gkrieg case and un vote him.
Also - I said now that I don't think the whole !! Thing is valid and when asked previously it wasn't on my list bc I still thought it was nonsense then.

I don't get it are you like purposefully taking things out of context thinking it's just gonna slide in or something?

Okay. This is it:

Upon some much needed re reading I think I was wrongly blaming Gkrieg as skum for "not skum hunting". I still don't really like his case but tbh dude is contributing more than most.

unvote for now.

(Emphasis mine) It seems to me you still think gkrieg is scummy at that point.

[Witherweaver]

So, you people refusing to vote for gkrieg because there is no case... are you going to present the awesome case on the people that you ARE voting for some time soon?

I'm more concerned with

a) Using basically RVS discussion to undermine any votes for Gkrieg that have happened since after the first day or so.  I wonder what would he going on if the punctuation joke were not made.
b) The overconcern of lynching Day 1 without a "case".

[Witherweaver]

That being said, I understand an argument like: Gkrieg was a safe place for scum to put their vote early on as it wouldn't be scrutinized, and leaving it there serves as a cover for doing something in the game while not scum hunting.  Therefore scummy wagon, and therefore Gkrieg more likely town.

That argument doesn't seem to be made, though.  And, even so, I didn't find the people voting Gkrieg early on to be that scummy. 

[Witherweaver]

Oh thank god at least someone understands my refusal to lynch on the basis of punctuation!?&shift1

Fwiw - also agree with this. It is the reason I un voted him a few days back. It does seem like the speculation on Gkrieg is kind of based on pretty far fetched stuff at this point. Not all votes, some people have made at least some reasonable notes... but if anyone is actually voting based on exclamation marks right now... probably not the best move.

But you know, this is actually pretty right coming from the guy who said this:

Can everyone state or recap their reasons for voting Gkrieg?

1) Mainly the post content with, from what I can find, like 0 attempts at hunting.
2) I don't know why it bothers me, but he seems to care to much about this Redirector bit.

PPE

Vote: DatSwan I think.

I found the first point scummy.  Could move to DatSwan.

I do think he's a little different from before, where he was scum, though. 

[Witherweaver]

Two days left and WW and I are the two main wagons? Not sure I really like that.

Yeah well, I don't really understand the WW wagon. Can anyone explain why it would be a good idea to vote there?

Because primarily asking questions as a form of post content might be a personal meta, but its just as easily a scum tactic as it provides "non-contentless post count" to people reading WW while providing no opinions or reads to be held to at any later point.

especially scummy since it was directly in response to you already asking about what the case is

Wow, so you can be helpful!

Sorry that I'm not very into the game right now. I have family visiting and am mildly busy. Now would you explain to me what scum!me gains from ignoring your case?

Lets summarize here:

1) You ask for the case
2) I provide a completely not sarcastic summary of the case (which I did not claim was strong)
3) You ask for the case again, claiming nobody has provided one
4) I point out that I have provided the case, admittedly somewhat aggressively
5) You quote a mostly joking post -- in which I intentionally vote without a reason to mimic his behavior -- as my case. I understand how this can be confusing. You claim it's a bit rich.
6) I point you with a direct quote to the case, which is directly responding to you.
7) You aggressively say "so you can be helpful"


who is actually being more unhelpful here Faust? I might have less manners in my average post but you're entirely in the wrong here.

It's scummy because it's defending WW without stating an opinion based on the reality of the situation (I.E. defending him by arguing against the case). If WW is scum, it's obvious why it's scummy. If WW is town, it's the kind of low-effort white knighting that scum defending town tends to do.

I have a slight notion that scum!Fasut is likely to be more confrontational with less provocation.  Not very strong though.

Also, your case is bad (and a misrepresentation of how I've played), but at least you are providing that it is not strong.

[Witherweaver]

No one reacted to  Jimmmmm considering Qvist but me (unless I missed).

What do people think of Qvist?

[SpaceAnemone]

That is just not how I do things.

And herr we come to my favorite argument which also proved to work: if you are aware what things you do and don't do as scum. you can imitate them.

Well, yes. But obviously I also don't do this as town, so there would be no real benefit to me imitating it as scum.

But you are trying to get the redirector to claim (or show that there isn't any redirector), so you are doing it as town or scum...

I need parsing help now! Are you saying you think he's scummy for suggesting a role should be claimed, or saying that you observe he's done similar as town? We all know her was scum on the dry run of this game, so I'm missing where the knowing-he's-town part comes from.

Urgh..  phone posting, so apologies if I've missed any of the awful autocorrupts!

I'm reposting my own gkrieg-parsing issue from when I was phone-posting from the coach the other day.

To clarify, my question about gkrieg's choice of language is that he seems to indicate a knowledge that faust is doing something "as town or scum" when he shouldn't be able to know if faust is town this time (and I think he's using the example from this game). Did I just misunderstand something about the argument? I pointed out at #257 that this is why I'm keeping my vote where it is. Meanwhile gkrieg only responded to the punctuation argument (e.g. #264), and now that's the only part of the suspicion people are talking about.

[Witherweaver]

Gkrieg was just saying that Faust is either town or scum now, though I think the antecedent of "it" changed through the quotes .

I'm not sure I get your point.

[SpaceAnemone]

No one reacted to  Jimmmmm considering Qvist but me (unless I missed).

What do people think of Qvist?

Ah, I didn't respond when I read it just now because I just agreed with your observation that Galz is looking a bit townie (mostly to me it's his interaction with the RR wagon, given that RR seems to be getting a townpass for the day), and had a totally null opinion of Qvist, so he probably needs a re-read from me.

Actually, I have exactly the same question on Qvist that you had on Galz: is he a returning oldie? He seems to have a lot of posts on f.ds in general, at least, but I don't think I've played with him before.

[faust]

(mostly to me it's his interaction with the RR wagon, given that RR seems to be getting a townpass for the day)

What is this about? RR is still one of the major wagons, no?

[SpaceAnemone]

(mostly to me it's his interaction with the RR wagon, given that RR seems to be getting a townpass for the day)

What is this about? RR is still one of the major wagons, no?

He's kind of a distant third: he has three votes, whereas gkrieg and WW both have five.

And since you asked with such incredulity, I went and counted the expressions of disinterest or towny-vibes towards RR:
e @ #426.
Teproc @ #430
WW @ #437 (says he doesn't want to lynch RR, anyway)
Eevee @ #461 says some stuff feels townie and he's not voting there any more.
Galz @ #465 says he's less inclined towards an RR lynch now.

Then there's the fact that e also reiterates his "RR is town" stance twice @ #447. Maybe that's inflating the feeling of a move away from RR a little, but it's still a considerable minority willing not to push him right now, hence my assumption that he's gained a D1 pass.