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[Galzria]

Well, that was a pretty crappy night for us.

Is Awaclus V/LA? This is his only post of d4.

[SpaceAnemone]

Well, that was a pretty crappy night for us.

Is Awaclus V/LA? This is his only post of d4.

No, he's posting elsewhere on the forum, so he's definitely around.

He's an IC here, though, so I guess he'll wade in at the end rather than getting messed up in the arguments. He tends to want to see other people saying things in case they scumslip, I think... he has quite non-standard views on how good play should look.

[Galzria]

Well, that was a pretty crappy night for us.

Is Awaclus V/LA? This is his only post of d4.

No, he's posting elsewhere on the forum, so he's definitely around.

He's an IC here, though, so I guess he'll wade in at the end rather than getting messed up in the arguments. He tends to want to see other people saying things in case they scumslip, I think... he has quite non-standard views on how good play should look.

Yeah,  I was just wondering if we should request a prod or not. Game has come to a crawl and time is burning by. I'll be mostly out all weekend so I was hoping for some action yesterday/today

Everybody else has posted at least once in the past 48 hours.

[faust]

Well some other people could post some thoughts on Space vs iguana. We probably don't want to decide today between them, but it doesn't hurt to figure this out now, all the ashersky talk isn't leading to a lot, he's just caught scum.

[O]

I think I can cover posting for him if y'all need it.

O is scum and you're all logically misplaying by trying to lynch Ashersky, the case on O is obvious.

I'm ready to L-1 Ashersky if we think we're done with relevant discussion. The game seems to have slowed down substantially.

PPE: Faust wants more discussion

[Galzria]

I think I can cover posting for him if y'all need it.

O is scum and you're all logically misplaying by trying to lynch Ashersky, the case on O is obvious.

I'm ready to L-1 Ashersky if we think we're done with relevant discussion. The game seems to have slowed down substantially.

PPE: Faust wants more discussion

What a fantastic case!!! Why didn't I see it until now? Obviously we should all sheep and vote: O!!!

... Or not. unvote

[faust]

I'd like at least for Jimmmmm and Awaclus to have a chance to share anything they want to share before we end the day, given that they are the most likely deaths tonight.

[Galzria]

So one of Ashersky and Faust are scum

I'm not convincd of this at all. Did I miss an actual case (apart from on each other)?

Ash claimed that one night when he wasn't jailed by Galz to have received a no result on his rolecop of faust, which would indicate faust is investigation immune instead of vig. Both of those are in slot 1, so if ash is telling the truth, faust is scum.

Oh okay.

Jimmmmm, did you have any more thoughts on this?

[SpaceAnemone]

I think I can cover posting for him if y'all need it.

O is scum and you're all logically misplaying by trying to lynch Ashersky, the case on O is obvious.

I'm ready to L-1 Ashersky if we think we're done with relevant discussion. The game seems to have slowed down substantially.

PPE: Faust wants more discussion

Yes, I think it's interesting to see who's willing to vote for ashersky, and getting the night phase over and done with when people are quiet over the weekend anyway seems like a great idea to me!

From memory, both iguana and RR were pushing more for faust, believing ash's story and apparently believing it's an either-or sort of situation. If we have any more discussion, I'd quite like to see those two chip in with opinions on ash.

Update: iguana did actually say he thought ash was scummy, but he seems to want to vote me over ash. RR very definitely said he wants to take out faust and not ash, though... given that the two of them are not in a true 1v1 the way iguana and I are, that's something I'd like to see explained.

PPE: faust also has a good point about giving our ICs a chance to say stuff before we risk losing them.

[Galzria]

I want to lynch faust today. If Ashersky is town we lose so much, but if Faust is town we lose a named townie.

Road, how strongly do you feel about this?

[sudgy]

Regarding iguana vs space, I have a gut townread on space, so would probably rather lynch iguana.  I'll look more into them when the decision needs to be made.

[Galzria]

So one of Ashersky and Faust are scum, and one of Iguana and Space are scum. Can we keep the lynchpool to them four?

All four of them might be scum actially

What do you think the odds are that either/both of the pairs are scum/scum and why?

[Galzria]

So I'm scum because our reads don't match?

Yea pretty much. Our reads don't match and you kept Vigging town members. Seems like fourth most scummy person is an entirely reasonable place to put you, no?

How strongly do you feel about this? Do you think Ash/Faust are both scum?

[Galzria]

Confirming no result from my investigation last night.

So how exactly was that information worth holding back? And why do you post, but don't answer my questions?

I'm fairly certain I did answer your questions.

As for holding it back, if Galz claimed to jail someone else, that would give me more information.

How does that depend on who claims first?

If I have a result and he says he jailed me, he's lying.  If I claim I have a result, he won't say he jailed me.

How would me claiming to jail someone else give you more information? You seem to suggest that you then could have claimed a result - but you didn't have one (by your own admission). Had I claimed to jail mcmc what would that tell you? What would you have claimed then?

[Galzria]

Well I am a town, so obviously it sucks that anyone would reread and find me scummy.  It seems like the case against me is mainly that I haven't committed really hard to playing and well I don't regret that at all - It afforded me the luxury to have a life outside this game.

As for Faust / Ash, I think they are both scum. The whole thing stinks of a gambit to me. And again probably one of Galz or Jake is on the team too.

Can you expand on "And again probably one of Galz or Jake is on the team too."

[Galzria]

From my previous posts it sounds like O, LaLight and Iguana all believe Faust & Ash both to be scum.

If they are in fact both scum it doesn't seem like the best of gambit for them.

[O]

From my previous posts it sounds like O, LaLight and Iguana all believe Faust & Ash both to be scum.

If they are in fact both scum it doesn't seem like the best of gambit for them.

How come? Ashersky was likely getting lynched regardless.

Why do you think Faust has consistently vigged town members?

Why have you consistently Jailkept poor targets, if Faust is town?

Like today's makes no sense to me. Even with your WIFOM positing on MCMC we'd at least have confirmation of a strongman, whereas Jailkeeping "my info on two scum comes out regardless of whether I die or not certainly couldn't have achieved much.

[Awaclus]

Well, that was a pretty crappy night for us.

Is Awaclus V/LA? This is his only post of d4.

No, just busy (not so busy anymore) and there has been too many posts in this game again.

[Galzria]

given they can't really both be town, right?

False.

I mean ashersky will most likely flip scum, but this is setting up mislynches. I think I said some time that scum doesn't actually do this, and I have no particular reason to think  this comes from scum!Galzria, but it is a kind of thing that scum will gladly jump on.

The only situation I can conceive where you're both town is if there is a scum Roleblocker who blocked Ash N1 giving him a No Result then too. Or I guess if 2.7 drove Ash to someone else (highly unlikely).

But then said Roleblocker probably would've blocked me last night to prevent me from protecting mcmc. This would've meant that Ash would be free to investigate me and see that I'm the JK, as well as allow Jake to Track Ash.

The only other way is if they have Strongman & Roleblocker - They could've Strongmanned mcmc, and Roleblocked Jake to prevent Tracking.

But really... Ash is probably scum. I'll grant you that to claim a scum!Faust with a town!Ash flip will require a reevaluation of NK's - so it's not automatic, but...

The problem I have with Ash's claim is that it doesn't align with like, anything we know or believe to be accurate at this point and requires multiple other things going on that we're unaware of. And that's true for town!Faust or scum!faust.

I don't get you at all. From your perspective, literally the only way that I am not a vig (and ash town) is if Jake is lying scum and actually a scum inventor or vig. Should ash flip town, you should a) believe that he was blocked N1, in which case his results have no bearing whatsoever on my alignment. b) believe that he wasn't blocked, in which case you should lynch Jake.

I believe you just restated what I said:

If Ash flips town, then in order for you to be town he needed to be Roleblocked - that's possible, but currently as unlikely as Ash being town - If he wasn't blocked then his instigation of you is true, which means you're scum and we need to reevaluate NK's.

[iguanaiguana]

I am around. I am trying to get psyched on how I am the De Fausto mislynch tomorrow but it is not easy.

Vote: Ashersky anyway

Might as well get on with it.

[Galzria]

From my previous posts it sounds like O, LaLight and Iguana all believe Faust & Ash both to be scum.

If they are in fact both scum it doesn't seem like the best of gambit for them.

How come? Ashersky was likely getting lynched regardless.

Why do you think Faust has consistently vigged town members?

Why have you consistently Jailkept poor targets, if Faust is town?

Like today's makes no sense to me. Even with your WIFOM positing on MCMC we'd at least have confirmation of a strongman, whereas Jailkeeping "my info on two scum comes out regardless of whether I die or not certainly couldn't have achieved much.

I disagree with your first sentiment in general. If it was Ash solo, maybe. But with the collective minds of him and his team I doubt they would've just accepted an Ash lynch today.

To your second point - because he's a Vig shooting [early].

Galzria! Get in here and explain--better than I did--why the Vigilantes should just not shoot please.

I think it's an anti-town role. It hits town far more frequently than scum, and just expedites the trek towards LyLo. Everyone hails a good Vig, but by and large they suck for town.

That doesn't excuse Faust. And he's not conf!town by any means. But bad shots are not inductive to alignment to me. ((PPS was really bad though. The other two... meh. I just disagree)).

Lastly, if they Strongmanned mcmc then I feel that whatever I may have prevented Ash from doing outweighs my knowing for fact that the Strongman exists (where I'm already very confident based on the fact that mcmc died and not me). It's not like my claiming to jail mcmc and him still dying would tell you anything for certain. From your perspective I could still be lying. Or Roleblocked. Or Strongman exists. So much uncertainty. So yeah - it was my choice, and I made the one I feel was correct.

[SpaceAnemone]

Lastly, if they Strongmanned mcmc then I feel that whatever I may have prevented Ash from doing outweighs my knowing for fact that the Strongman exists (where I'm already very confident based on the fact that mcmc died and not me). It's not like my claiming to jail mcmc and him still dying would tell you anything for certain. From your perspective I could still be lying. Or Roleblocked. Or Strongman exists. So much uncertainty. So yeah - it was my choice, and I made the one I feel was correct.

I keep assuming that roles appearing in slots 11-13 must come from slots 1-10 from which one PR was already chosen. I'm not sure where I get that "if another role from that slot was chosen" part, and I'm pretty sure it's not the case. However, if that was true, then the only way there wouldn't be a strongman in the game is if you've lied to us about your role/slot. I'm having a hard time shaking my suspicion of you because of it. Sorry about that!

[SpaceAnemone]

In case it's useful, here's another snippet from my game notes, grouping things by slot. I've starred the slots that nobody as claimed.

Slots and claimed PRs
Slot 1: faust, 2-shot vig.
Slot 2: PPS, restless Sheeper.
*Slot 3: No Claim; assume RB if anything.
Slot 4: Ashersy, Role Cop. (Could also be inventor (or even watcher)).
*Slot 5: No Claim; assume JOAT if anything.
Slot 6: Jimmmmm, Masonic Lover.
*Slot 7: No Claim (Tracker went to slot 12 according to Jake. Other options here are Godfather-er & 1-shot BP).
*Slot 8: No Claim (JK went to 11 according to Galz. Strongman could have been taken from here).
Slot 9: mcmc, Hammer Hero.
Slot 10: TWM, Hider.
Slot 11: Galz, JK.
Slot 12: Jake, Tracker (he says other option was 1-shot commuter).
Slot 13: Apparently went to e, who got 1-shot Bus Driver that had been at slot 6.

My comment next to #8 used to say that it implied there was a strongman if we believe Galz (with my questionable interpretation I mentioned in my earlier post).

Remember that the mafia got to communicate when they picked their slots: they're likely to have spread themselves pretty well across the possibilities, so I think it's really likely that Strongman, RB and JOAT might be out there.

[Galzria]

I am around. I am trying to get psyched on how I am the De Fausto mislynch tomorrow but it is not easy.

Vote: Ashersky anyway

Might as well get on with it.

This is L-1 btw. Wasn't posted, but please don't hammer until we're sure we're done with discussion.

[Galzria]

Interesting note on the last two voters for Ash:

Iguana and Space.

If Ash is scum then one of them is now likely bussing.